1
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,799
Speaker 1: Hey, what up. Welcome and I'm Doug Gottlib. This is

2
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,920
Speaker 1: all ball Um, the podcast that everybody is talking about

3
00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,000
Speaker 1: in hoops and in life, where what I try and

4
00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,639
Speaker 1: do is we talked about some of the topics in

5
00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,479
Speaker 1: the sport and then we get a guest on and

6
00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 1: we talked about their life. This one is no different

7
00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,160
Speaker 1: John sun Bold and I'm just so you know he's

8
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,720
Speaker 1: not listening to me right now. Johns levels a little

9
00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 1: bit of my idol one as a player who's a

10
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,320
Speaker 1: great one. He won four straight Big Eight titles at Missouri,

11
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,800
Speaker 1: was a first round Traft pick of the Seattle SuperSonics,

12
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,559
Speaker 1: and after that he went into broadcasting after being a

13
00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,400
Speaker 1: player that we're not even gonna get into the broadcaster

14
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,600
Speaker 1: side in the first two episodes of this spot. It's

15
00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,680
Speaker 1: so good, but it's more. Here's a kid who was

16
00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,960
Speaker 1: born kind of grew up South Dakota to Nebraska, moved around,

17
00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,639
Speaker 1: moved to an area outside of Kansas City when he

18
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 1: was think in seventh grade, he'll get to that and

19
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,680
Speaker 1: became a great, great player. And what was it like

20
00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,319
Speaker 1: playing for Norm Stewart, What was it like playing in

21
00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 1: the Big Gate, What was it like becoming an NBA

22
00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,240
Speaker 1: traft pick and what was it like playing in the NBA.

23
00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,640
Speaker 1: There's some incredible stories, uh in these first in these

24
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,280
Speaker 1: these first couple of pots, so we I also want

25
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,680
Speaker 1: to get to. I was at the Kentucky Kansas game.

26
00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:28,080
Speaker 1: I called it for Westwood One, and I think, I

27
00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,679
Speaker 1: know Kentucky is better than Kansas. I don't think there

28
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,759
Speaker 1: are twenty points at the happens in Kansas. I didn't

29
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,400
Speaker 1: like the game plan from Kands, like, look, if you're

30
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,959
Speaker 1: gonna play against Kentucky, on made baskets and granted, part

31
00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,240
Speaker 1: of it is their Kentucky has become very good defensively.

32
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,880
Speaker 1: You gotta make some baskets, but you need to pressure

33
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:51,040
Speaker 1: to slow them down. And you give Chevie Wheeler a

34
00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 1: chance to push the ball and get to the free

35
00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 1: throw line or below, or he throws that ball up

36
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:57,960
Speaker 1: the court and they get to shoot and score and quick.

37
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,360
Speaker 1: They just they play a great aisle for their personnel.

38
00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,720
Speaker 1: They'll shoot quick. If not, they'll get into some ball

39
00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,880
Speaker 1: screen action. With Shibay, he's a monster inside um he's

40
00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 1: using his depth really well. He's got guys bought into

41
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,880
Speaker 1: their role. Whereas I still think Kansas is. I know

42
00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,079
Speaker 1: they were ranked fifth, They're not the fifth best team

43
00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,360
Speaker 1: in the country. Text should have gotten him at home

44
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,880
Speaker 1: on Monday night. I still think Kansas is uh feeling

45
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:29,120
Speaker 1: the the the effects of that long n C investigation

46
00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,280
Speaker 1: where it's hurt them in recruiting because they basically have

47
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,639
Speaker 1: David McCormick and they're just a limit. You have one

48
00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,680
Speaker 1: freshman big coming up the bench, and he's an athlete,

49
00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,320
Speaker 1: a project, you know. I mean, they're they're still not

50
00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,400
Speaker 1: nearly as deep as they need to be, and I

51
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,079
Speaker 1: think Bill knows that, and he's just kind of trying

52
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 1: to figure out who the third guard is gonna be

53
00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,799
Speaker 1: and when, um, when when your starters don't play well.

54
00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,440
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of answers on that bench. But

55
00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,080
Speaker 1: I I Kentucky is better than Kansas. Kentucky might well

56
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 1: be the best team in the country. You them, and

57
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,799
Speaker 1: they remember they were beating Auburn before ty Ty Washington

58
00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 1: got hurt. But I want to get the opinion of

59
00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,680
Speaker 1: of John Sunfold, who covers the SEC for the SEC

60
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,519
Speaker 1: Network and covers Kentucky and saw them. We had a

61
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,520
Speaker 1: long talk before and after the Texas A and M game.

62
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,600
Speaker 1: So let's do that. Let's let's get some SEC Big

63
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:25,080
Speaker 1: twelve reaction and then we'll get into the John Sunfold story. UM, okay,

64
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,760
Speaker 1: I want to do We're gonna work backwards to your story,

65
00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,799
Speaker 1: but we just we came out of SEC Big twelve, Okay,

66
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,720
Speaker 1: and we'll do a little timeliness here before we get

67
00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:40,960
Speaker 1: to the meat of what I want to get to. But, um,

68
00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:50,240
Speaker 1: your reaction to the weekend where Bama beats Baylor and

69
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,160
Speaker 1: Kentucky goes in and kicks the hell out of Kansas

70
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,440
Speaker 1: at Kansas and and the rest of the challenge we

71
00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,840
Speaker 1: can kind of talk about. I mean, Auburn Oklahoma was

72
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:00,400
Speaker 1: going to be a mispatch for guard this, you know,

73
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,839
Speaker 1: and some of the other ones don't matter. But when

74
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:08,640
Speaker 1: the top two teams go in and get smacked like that, Um,

75
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,920
Speaker 1: what did I hate the conference versus conference thing? But

76
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,320
Speaker 1: there is something to what's building in the SEC. What's

77
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,880
Speaker 1: kind of your thoughts after watching this weekend? Well, I

78
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,919
Speaker 1: think you're right about what's what's building in the SEC

79
00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,800
Speaker 1: because of of what this SEC stands for, Right, they

80
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:34,960
Speaker 1: just keep pushing the envelope, uh, bigger better, you know,

81
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,799
Speaker 1: when you take these kind of games, I always wonder

82
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 1: which road team will win of the whole thing, which

83
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,880
Speaker 1: which team could go on the road. So if I

84
00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,680
Speaker 1: if I had a handicapped beforehand, I said, okay, maybe Baylor.

85
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,360
Speaker 1: But I didn't pick Baylor to win. Uh maybe l

86
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:56,279
Speaker 1: s U two TCU, but home court maybe Kansas State

87
00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,360
Speaker 1: at all miss two similar teams whole court hill. So

88
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,240
Speaker 1: now you take the two the two big dogs, right,

89
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,720
Speaker 1: the two big ones Kentucky at Kansas. The Kentucky team

90
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:12,520
Speaker 1: we saw is a Kentucky team that's is as good

91
00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,799
Speaker 1: as anybody we've seen them. Uh, they've done it against

92
00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:21,680
Speaker 1: North Carolina, they've done it against Tennessee where they're if

93
00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,960
Speaker 1: all their guys are healthy and they're doing what they do,

94
00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,800
Speaker 1: they can they can win the whole thing. And that's

95
00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,680
Speaker 1: what we saw in Kansas. So surprising, Yeah, because it's Kansas.

96
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,800
Speaker 1: You've been there. I've been there. Nobody goes in there

97
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,040
Speaker 1: and does that, but Cows team did it. So you know,

98
00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,400
Speaker 1: anytime these matchups, all I do is look for which

99
00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,600
Speaker 1: road team they win. That's the whole thing because most

100
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,040
Speaker 1: of the time hold hold the home teams hold their court.

101
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,520
Speaker 1: You know, when you started with the SEC network, I

102
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,480
Speaker 1: think the league was very different and now now it's

103
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,719
Speaker 1: the level of investment. I would say in coaches. I

104
00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,520
Speaker 1: also think in facilities. Um, I'm guessing in resources. I

105
00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,719
Speaker 1: don't know why. Why do you think it's changed so

106
00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,120
Speaker 1: much here kind of last five years where there's a

107
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:12,039
Speaker 1: tremendous depth of quality programs in the league. You know, Doug,

108
00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,599
Speaker 1: there was an emphasis, let's say five or six years

109
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,240
Speaker 1: ago too. You know what if the SEC is great

110
00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 1: in football, at softball and baseball and golf and on

111
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,599
Speaker 1: and on and on, why aren't they in basketball? It

112
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,400
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be just be Kentucky. So every school

113
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,000
Speaker 1: has invested. You see the coaches that have been hired

114
00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 1: every place, right, and the facilities. When you put a

115
00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,479
Speaker 1: good coach that's been somewhere that's going to the Final

116
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 1: four and comes into a new place, uh it. I'm

117
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,599
Speaker 1: not gonna say rejuvenates a fan base because mostly some

118
00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,640
Speaker 1: of these places, it starts a fan base. What Bruce

119
00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:53,720
Speaker 1: Pearl has done at Auburn, what Rick Bard's re ignited

120
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,719
Speaker 1: at Tennessee, because they've they've had it in the past years. Um,

121
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,400
Speaker 1: when you do that, the fan basis, it's a little

122
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,919
Speaker 1: bit a little bit like the old Big Eight the

123
00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 1: Big Twelve, where you knew every home court was probably

124
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,280
Speaker 1: pretty good, probably hard to win, even as down as

125
00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,440
Speaker 1: some teams are in this league. Missouri is not very good,

126
00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,960
Speaker 1: George is not that good right now, But you don't

127
00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,560
Speaker 1: walk in there and win. I mean, Alabama goes up

128
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,960
Speaker 1: to Missouri and Council Martin's team was tough and physical

129
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,080
Speaker 1: and they beat them. So it's this league now has

130
00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,200
Speaker 1: become what Big twelve is and what the Big Ten is,

131
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,440
Speaker 1: where no, there's no easy game. You go on the road,

132
00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,000
Speaker 1: you better be ready. Um okay, let's let's let's discuss

133
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,360
Speaker 1: Missouri before getting to your Missouri career. Is it? I

134
00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,200
Speaker 1: think the wrong league? Is it? Why do you think

135
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,000
Speaker 1: they've that? Like? I think they're in wrong league. In football,

136
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:51,080
Speaker 1: that as it's really really hard when you know in

137
00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:56,520
Speaker 1: your kind of recruiting circumference, it's just not enough players, right,

138
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,280
Speaker 1: not not enough players, not in depth of players. And

139
00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 1: then you're gonna go into where the players are. Why

140
00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,840
Speaker 1: would you go there as opposed to go into Florida

141
00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,760
Speaker 1: or Georgia or Obama or Auburn or whatever. It's now

142
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,000
Speaker 1: you're fighting for the second and third year. It's hard,

143
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, and if they're in the I think the

144
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,280
Speaker 1: Big Ten would have been hard for him to the

145
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 1: Big Ten. Similarly, like Incredible Investment, like the Big twelve

146
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,520
Speaker 1: fit in that they were closer to the top of

147
00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,720
Speaker 1: the food chain resource wise. It wasn't the depth of

148
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 1: overall talent. And yes, early on they did well in

149
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,239
Speaker 1: the SEC, but they would have done well in the

150
00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,960
Speaker 1: in the Big Big Big twelve as well. Okay, so,

151
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,839
Speaker 1: but that's not that's not basketball basketball. You got St. Louis,

152
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:43,120
Speaker 1: you got Kansas City, you got the new facility. Why

153
00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,160
Speaker 1: hasn't it hit in so long? You know, I can't

154
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,120
Speaker 1: answer that because it should hit right, you know, the

155
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,280
Speaker 1: tradition of the years Missouri was good and the stretches

156
00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,480
Speaker 1: Missouri was good, and they've got the players in the states. Um,

157
00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,440
Speaker 1: you don't get every home state kid, but you can

158
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,600
Speaker 1: get seven out of ten over the years, right, and

159
00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,160
Speaker 1: every other year there's probably a Pro out of St.

160
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,400
Speaker 1: Louis or every third or fourth year of pro out

161
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,440
Speaker 1: of Kansas City. You have to get those kids, and

162
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,439
Speaker 1: the commitment by whether it's the current coach or former coaches,

163
00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,600
Speaker 1: if they couldn't get it, didn't get it done. Uh.

164
00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,520
Speaker 1: And and that's gonna probably weigh on console right that

165
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 1: that the fan base looks and says, Okay, why why

166
00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 1: is that kid from St. Louis going to wherever they're going?

167
00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,760
Speaker 1: You know. And that's just that's the way it is

168
00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,520
Speaker 1: on most programs. You can't let the in state. And

169
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,600
Speaker 1: you know today kids talk. So if you've got a

170
00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 1: kid from St. Louis and his buddy is in Atlanta, right,

171
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,760
Speaker 1: you might get them. They didn't build on the Porter brothers. Uh.

172
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,080
Speaker 1: Didn't quite recruit from those two, even though you know,

173
00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 1: Michael played what one game was hurt and played at

174
00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,360
Speaker 1: the end of the year two games SEC Tournament won

175
00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,320
Speaker 1: n C double a. Um. They didn't really build on

176
00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,400
Speaker 1: any of that. So that's where the struggle is. There's

177
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,439
Speaker 1: also little look when we went into the Hearn Center,

178
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,960
Speaker 1: that place is a zoo. Okay, and I know you

179
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 1: have to end, like Oaklahom stated, is the same problem

180
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,920
Speaker 1: right where you build this beautiful building a little bit

181
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,360
Speaker 1: too big. You know. They have other factors with the Thunder.

182
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,000
Speaker 1: I think when the Thunder were good, I think every

183
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,400
Speaker 1: game being on TV. But games were on TV back

184
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,760
Speaker 1: when they were in the Big twelve games are on

185
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,520
Speaker 1: TV early on the s SEC. Is it just simply

186
00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,880
Speaker 1: you gotta win and then people will come or is

187
00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,440
Speaker 1: there something else that's keeping people from getting in their

188
00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,840
Speaker 1: cars because that used to be I mean when Norm

189
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,400
Speaker 1: was there that that was an incredible environment, incredible and

190
00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,760
Speaker 1: it's just not even though the facility is awesome. Well

191
00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 1: the Missouri it's proven it can be. Uh, when Kip

192
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,280
Speaker 1: English and his group was here with Frank Kye that

193
00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,160
Speaker 1: year was off the chart, I mean off the chart

194
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,360
Speaker 1: as far as noise now like to Hearn Center because

195
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,120
Speaker 1: that was built differently. I would think you gotta win.

196
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,280
Speaker 1: I mean I watched most fan bases across the country.

197
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,439
Speaker 1: If you win, people kind of show up. If you don't,

198
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:10,960
Speaker 1: it's easy to watch it. I mean it's easy to

199
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,480
Speaker 1: stay home. That's that's just the reality of it. I

200
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,560
Speaker 1: do think coaches now become more marketers than they've ever been.

201
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,240
Speaker 1: Right the sales guys that go on campus and sell

202
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,959
Speaker 1: their product and are in the community that sell their

203
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,760
Speaker 1: product seem to be getting people. And if you don't

204
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,080
Speaker 1: do that, then then you better win at a high

205
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,559
Speaker 1: percentage or oh people, Uh, they kind of lay back

206
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,439
Speaker 1: a little bit. Let's go back to your original thought

207
00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,240
Speaker 1: of the older generation in Missouri are used to seeing

208
00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,959
Speaker 1: if Missouri played Ia staying. Now they played them coming up,

209
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 1: but they play out. I was staying, but if I

210
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,960
Speaker 1: would stay, it was coming here or Oklahoma or Oklahoma State.

211
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:53,240
Speaker 1: Older people might go, oh, we remember those guys. That's that,

212
00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,080
Speaker 1: that's the thing. That's the thing that that I did

213
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,080
Speaker 1: the last time I think Kansas State played there, it

214
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,920
Speaker 1: was came unless year in case State beat him. And

215
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,080
Speaker 1: my point I made then my player main which is like,

216
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,880
Speaker 1: you can't make up history. You know, you can't just

217
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:14,000
Speaker 1: create Oh, Arkansas's arrival now, correct? You know that you

218
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,120
Speaker 1: played Kansas State for a hundred years. Everybody talks about

219
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,200
Speaker 1: the Kansas game, and the Kansas game was big. Which

220
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,840
Speaker 1: played Kansas State for a hundred years, played Iowa State

221
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:26,320
Speaker 1: for sixty eight years, played Oklahoma State, and and and

222
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,720
Speaker 1: there's there's two parts to a fan base which are important.

223
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,079
Speaker 1: The students who are loud and crazy, you gotta get them.

224
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:36,000
Speaker 1: But then there's the that older generation because the people

225
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,280
Speaker 1: in the middle with wives and kids and lives, but

226
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,560
Speaker 1: they're only going to show up for the big ones, right.

227
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,480
Speaker 1: But the old people. They show up for the traditional ones,

228
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,679
Speaker 1: and I think cutting out that tradition, specifically in the

229
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,520
Speaker 1: sport of basketball, I think it really has made it

230
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,920
Speaker 1: a much more challenging proposition to get people in the building. Well,

231
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:57,600
Speaker 1: if you think that there is not a team that

232
00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,600
Speaker 1: comes to missour arena that people dislike, I mean Missouri.

233
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,800
Speaker 1: People don't dislike Kentucky, they don't dislike Vanderbilt. There's not

234
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,440
Speaker 1: a team that comes that they go, oh, we hate

235
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,560
Speaker 1: these guys. Now Arkansas, because it's a border state, you

236
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,319
Speaker 1: can make up some things. Maybe you get a fight

237
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,120
Speaker 1: or two in football, and maybe you get a fighting.

238
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's slowly grown, but there's no hatred there.

239
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,240
Speaker 1: There's absolutely no If Kentucky shows up, people will show

240
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,040
Speaker 1: up because they want to see Kentucky, right, They want

241
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,320
Speaker 1: to see the big dudes. Who are these guys are

242
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:32,439
Speaker 1: gonna be pros? Again? We could schedule Oklahoma State next

243
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,160
Speaker 1: week and the older generation will go, hey, let's go

244
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,400
Speaker 1: see the Cowboys. And some would think that Eddie Sutton

245
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,600
Speaker 1: is still alive in coaching, right they because they haven't

246
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,960
Speaker 1: paid attention. But but the name is the name, and

247
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,040
Speaker 1: that's you know, generationally It'll take a long time for

248
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:52,720
Speaker 1: Missouri to have any kind of rival like that. But again,

249
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,040
Speaker 1: if they were good, if Missouri was good in basketball

250
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,079
Speaker 1: and they filled it up. What happens when you're good

251
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,720
Speaker 1: is that you'll naturally get rivalries to you'll have unbelievable battles,

252
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,080
Speaker 1: whether again, whether it's a fight, whether it's a technical,

253
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,880
Speaker 1: whether it's a made shot at the buzzer that shouldn't accounted.

254
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,400
Speaker 1: That's what starts at all. And it is funny. Do

255
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,480
Speaker 1: you think about, Like to this day, if I were

256
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,280
Speaker 1: to go to an Oklahoma State fan and I would

257
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,000
Speaker 1: say Missouri, they would say, God, I hate Jason Sutherland.

258
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,520
Speaker 1: Hate that guy? Yeah, whoever hate that guy? Right, there's

259
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,600
Speaker 1: a guy and and you know, you go to Missouri

260
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 1: fan and say Oklahoma, said Eduard Anaha, I can't stand

261
00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,480
Speaker 1: that guy. Billy Tubbs didn't like him, Kelvin Sampson didn't

262
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,240
Speaker 1: like him. He's a cheater, you know, like it really

263
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:41,800
Speaker 1: and it's amazing. Like I understand the financial aspects of it.

264
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,840
Speaker 1: I get it. You're making a lot more money, but

265
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 1: you're spending a bunch more money in order to play

266
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,360
Speaker 1: in that in that in that sand box and you're

267
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,600
Speaker 1: cutting off a hundred years of history. All right. Speaking

268
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,120
Speaker 1: of that history, did you grew up your Kansas City? Right,

269
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:57,880
Speaker 1: that's that's where you I know you weren't born in

270
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,280
Speaker 1: Kansas City, but you grew up in. Yeah, I'm their

271
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,160
Speaker 1: seventh grade. I grew up in. I was born in

272
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,240
Speaker 1: South Dakota, so I'm the youngest poor boys. Uh. Lived

273
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,520
Speaker 1: there until third grade. We my my mom and dad.

274
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,120
Speaker 1: We moved to Nebraska outside of Lincoln for three years

275
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,040
Speaker 1: third grade to sixth grade. When I lived outside of Lincoln, Nebraska,

276
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,680
Speaker 1: I lived in Seward, Nebraska. The court Husks won two

277
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,320
Speaker 1: national championships in football, so I had big red in

278
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,640
Speaker 1: my blood. Seventh grade, start seven, I moved to Missouri,

279
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,080
Speaker 1: so really I was a Missouri kid, not a Missouri fan.

280
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,240
Speaker 1: I was a Big eight fan. Uh from a basketball standpoint,

281
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,080
Speaker 1: followed Nebraska just because as a football fan. But I

282
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 1: was a Kansas State fan. Uh. In the history. What

283
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,440
Speaker 1: if you go back, Lon Krueger was playing in the

284
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,800
Speaker 1: early seventies when I was a young young kid. They

285
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,840
Speaker 1: had two guards, Mike Evans and Chuckie Williams. Uh in

286
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 1: the mid seventies, so I'm you know, ninth grade. Tenth grade.

287
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,960
Speaker 1: Let you know that's k State was phenomenal, So I

288
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,360
Speaker 1: was probably a k State guy. In the games we

289
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 1: got on TV. He always had a Satura afternoon game

290
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,160
Speaker 1: and then after that game was the U c l.

291
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 1: A game. I mean that was kind of like every week, right,

292
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,160
Speaker 1: So you became a U c l A fan because

293
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 1: they were on every week. But the Big Eight game

294
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 1: would always be Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Kansas, Missouri, Kansas State.

295
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,720
Speaker 1: It was. It was that, So I didn't grow up

296
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,400
Speaker 1: a Missouri fan, even though I grew up on the

297
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,680
Speaker 1: Missouri side of Kansas City. From Junior High on. Were

298
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,160
Speaker 1: you only a Hooper or were you because because I

299
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:25,320
Speaker 1: don't know if you know this, you know, my didn't

300
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:30,560
Speaker 1: know my dad coach Lane. Yeah, as a freshman and

301
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 1: and then I think and then as a sophomore on

302
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,720
Speaker 1: bar Stoo whatever and lan like people. I don't know

303
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,400
Speaker 1: if people know, like it was a great baseball player,

304
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 1: drafted yeah in in baseball and was Big Eight Player

305
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,840
Speaker 1: of the year. Um, so obviously a different era. But

306
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,240
Speaker 1: were you a one or two or three sport dude? No?

307
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,520
Speaker 1: I played, Uh, I was really My favorite thing was track.

308
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,600
Speaker 1: I was a track so but I played. I'm youngest

309
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,920
Speaker 1: of four boys, so I played football up until my

310
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,360
Speaker 1: sophomore year. When we were freshman in high school. We

311
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,080
Speaker 1: couldn't play up on the varsity, so I just played

312
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,280
Speaker 1: freshman football, freshman basketball. Now, the end of my freshman year,

313
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,679
Speaker 1: the varsity coach, because we were in a separate building,

314
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,040
Speaker 1: came and said, we're gonna put you on the varsity

315
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 1: of the last three games of the season and then

316
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,399
Speaker 1: the district tournament. They weren't very good. The closest brother

317
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,879
Speaker 1: to me, three years older, was a senior. I was

318
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 1: a freshman. So when the high school coach came and

319
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,800
Speaker 1: said we're gonna put you on for the last three games,

320
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,960
Speaker 1: I said no, thanks, because my I had They had

321
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,119
Speaker 1: three senior guards that rotated being average. I don't mean

322
00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,000
Speaker 1: it in a bad way, but they were average. So

323
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,160
Speaker 1: he was gonna take this freshman and start me and

324
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,320
Speaker 1: not said no. I said no, I had a brother,

325
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,679
Speaker 1: My brother was that that would have called that. Not

326
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,880
Speaker 1: only would my brother been pissed the two other seniors.

327
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,239
Speaker 1: I mean they might have killed me. I don't know,

328
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,200
Speaker 1: so I said no. So So the reality was when

329
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,560
Speaker 1: I got to be a sophomore. I did. I quit

330
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,280
Speaker 1: playing football, but I was a track I was a

331
00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:59,760
Speaker 1: track guy from when I was a kid. I was

332
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 1: all vaulter. Yeah, yeah, and how about this. So I

333
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 1: grew up in a in a town Canton, South Dakota,

334
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,359
Speaker 1: where my parents they're married at eighteen years old at

335
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:16,119
Speaker 1: their first child. At Canon, South Dakota was people, but

336
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,200
Speaker 1: they had a football coach who was the track coach.

337
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 1: The sun Bull brothers. Four of us within six years

338
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 1: we were pulled vaulting. I was pulled vauting at the

339
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,359
Speaker 1: age second grade. Third grade. You would go down to

340
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 1: the carpet store. They used to come in bamboo pole.

341
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,399
Speaker 1: The carpet would be wrapping a bamboo pole. The carpet

342
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 1: guy would save us. The straightest bamboo pole you had,

343
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,920
Speaker 1: you taped it up. My dad worked in the lumber yard.

344
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,480
Speaker 1: You made standards. We landed on our feet on a mat.

345
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,399
Speaker 1: In the backyard. You had a whole. We had a

346
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 1: pull ball pit. So I pulled vauted. Since I was

347
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 1: a kids, we get this. I moved to Missouri. Go

348
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,760
Speaker 1: out for the track, and again it was very fast.

349
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 1: Go out for track, and the first day of track,

350
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,000
Speaker 1: the coach talking about okay, there's things like triple jump,

351
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,880
Speaker 1: and there's a long jump and there's a high jump,

352
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 1: and I'm sure no one's ever pulled all that, but

353
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,399
Speaker 1: you know, maybe a couple of you and I, you know,

354
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,680
Speaker 1: And I raised my hand, a skinny little kid, and

355
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:09,920
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I have pulled ball. And the guy

356
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,160
Speaker 1: said you've pulled ball and I said yeah. He said

357
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: with what I said, a bamboo pole taped. Now, my

358
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,760
Speaker 1: older brothers had pulled valled with a fiberglass pole, and

359
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,440
Speaker 1: they were high school guys. My oldest brother Bob, who

360
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,640
Speaker 1: you know is now in college, but he had pulled

361
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,960
Speaker 1: balled in high school. So the guy said, you know,

362
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,480
Speaker 1: let me see if you can pull ball. I'll give you.

363
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 1: Gave me a steel pole, like a steel pole has

364
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 1: no gift. When he put a bar up at seven ft,

365
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 1: I run down stick the steel pole up very stiff,

366
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,640
Speaker 1: but because it's it's speed, it's all speed. And then

367
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 1: going elevate up, I just fly over the seven ft

368
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,679
Speaker 1: and he just like, my goodness. So I was running

369
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 1: in Junior Olympic events in eighth and ninth grade UM,

370
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,320
Speaker 1: and I remember I was at an event at Kansas track. Hey,

371
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,520
Speaker 1: you track, and we got a call. My parents got

372
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 1: a call from a guy in l A. And this

373
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 1: was in seventy six after the Bruce Jenner World Right

374
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 1: Grace Athlete in the World that we all watched. There

375
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: was a guy in l A that wanted to take

376
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 1: me my sophomore year to train me because of decathlon.

377
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,440
Speaker 1: Obviously it's running and strength. But I was already doing

378
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 1: the skill events and I was fast, and what I

379
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 1: needed to learn how to do was either shot put

380
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 1: on the discus or whatever part of their thing was.

381
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 1: Because I was I could run and so. But anyway,

382
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 1: we didn't. I didn't do that, and I was a

383
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 1: track guy up until my senior year. I couldn't because

384
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 1: I played in an All Star game in basketball in

385
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 1: Texas US All Stars versus the Texas All Stars. So

386
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,680
Speaker 1: Isaiah and Ray McCoy and different guys were playing Clyde

387
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 1: direct from them, and I come back for my senior

388
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 1: track in the state of Missouri said you can't run track.

389
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 1: So but that was the end of my track career.

390
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 1: But I went fourteen I think fourteen three is a

391
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 1: sophomore genie. I got hurt my junior year at tour

392
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 1: a quad muscle in a district meet. So that was

393
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: kind of the That was kind of the end of

394
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 1: my track stuff. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports

395
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 1: talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows

396
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I

397
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live.

398
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: When did you know you had a shot in basketball?

399
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: You know, I don't. I don't know. I could always play.

400
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: My my three brothers played a junior college basketball and

401
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 1: then my oldest Bob, played in South Dakota State, which

402
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 1: then was Division two. So when you're when you're in

403
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 1: a small town, I thought that was my path. My

404
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 1: dad said, you guys are going to college. You're paying

405
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: your own way. But as a sophomore in Kansas City,

406
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 1: I was doing my thing, uh, becoming recruitable by maybe

407
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 1: smaller schools at the time. And then by my junior

408
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: year I had already gone through that. In Nebraska was

409
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 1: calling and Kansas State. In Kansas, I played out in Georgia. Millegeville,

410
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: Georgia had a BC camp, uh and it was yeah,

411
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: BC All Star Camp, right, So Millichill, Georgia. So I

412
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: went out there class of seven and nine is Dominique,

413
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: and the three big guys was Ralph Sampson, Sam Bowie,

414
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: Steve Stepanovitch who became my teammate, Isaiah and Paxson, and

415
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: Byron Scott and Antoine cars and Worthy and Dominique. I mean,

416
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 1: it was an unbelievable class. So I went out there

417
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: and I played well, and then you never signed early.

418
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 1: You signed after your senior year. But but through the

419
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 1: junior year, I was starting to be recruited by everybody.

420
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: So then you kind of I never thought I could play.

421
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: I never looked at that like I would play there,

422
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 1: like I would play at a level. I never thought

423
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: about that. So okay, so you get home and now

424
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 1: people are recruiting you. Who was the case stay at

425
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: the time, Jack Hartman and uh jack In recruited every

426
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 1: He didn't go at least that was my dad's stories

427
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, he wasn't. That wasn't He wasn't herding

428
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: like that was his he would I'm not saying he

429
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't offer and do the business and all that stuff.

430
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: It wasn't like he was at the camp taking notes

431
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: and showing up at your game at eight am. Just

432
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: the state. So you were there, so Okay, so it

433
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: was Kate, who are the schools? Well, it was really

434
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 1: more of it became more Midwest because I even though

435
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 1: there were there were contacts from the outside that didn't

436
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: seem to be my world. So let's let's go. Arkansas

437
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: at the time was a powerhouse. They went to the

438
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 1: final four. My junior high school, they went to the

439
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: final four. So yeah, Betty Sutton, Moncrief and those guys,

440
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 1: uh Texas, Abe Lemons was high on my list. Kansas

441
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: was Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa, so it really became regional.

442
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: Um so wait, wait did you have was there a

443
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: conversation with Abe Lemons? Is so like that this can

444
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: we can completely divert the entire podcast right for people

445
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: who haven't that don't know basketball. Abe Lemons is anybody

446
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: who you think is quotable is at one level, and

447
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: ab Levins is seen as above like comedic level. Valvano

448
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: before Valvano's sort of um but but that that kind

449
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: of Oklahoma super dry, sarcastic wit did you did you?

450
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: Is there a Lemon story in there? Yeah? For so Valvano.

451
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: For for right before the Valvando recruited me, he was

452
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: at Iona he sees me in Georgia. And again there's

453
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: no cell phones back in those days, right, so they

454
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: would either call your home or really they call your

455
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 1: high school coach. And I'll there for I'm there forgetting.

456
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 1: And my high school coach was in there and said, hey,

457
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: there's a guy on the phone. And so I go

458
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: into it's Jim Valvano and he said, he said, I'm

459
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: Jim Voe, Jim Valvano, and I own a college. I

460
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: own a college. And I'm thinking, you know, I don't

461
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: know what he's saying. I own a college, yet I

462
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: own a college, and I'm kind of I don't know

463
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: who you have. But he talked about Jeff Ruling, etcetera, etcetera.

464
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: So that one, No, Abe Lemons, here's what's here's what's interesting.

465
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: You had Eddie sent in at Arkansas played a certain

466
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: way and Abe played the opposite way. Right, So Abe,

467
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: Abe Lemons was they were more undisciplined at Texas and

468
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: they ran and shot it and did whatever. They had

469
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: a kid named Jimmy Creevas who was a white guard

470
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: who just came off picks and just shot it. He

471
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: just shot him. So they would send me the little tapes, uh,

472
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,479
Speaker 1: you know, and said that your creevacks just think you're

473
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: a cree backs. You're gonna run around and just shoot

474
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: all the time. But anyway, Abe came up and visited

475
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: twice my hometown. My grandparents were from South Dakota. Uh.

476
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: My grandfather was an old cowboy country own a farm,

477
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: big man and big barrel chested. So when Abe came,

478
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: my grandparents would come down for about a month in

479
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: the winter watch. My brother was at a junior college

480
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: in Kansas City. I was playing in high school. They

481
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: just watched these games because there's their grandkids. So Abe comes.

482
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: I think Abe talked to my granddad for probably two hours.

483
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,239
Speaker 1: I went outside and messed around with my buddies like

484
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:08,239
Speaker 1: a he sold my my grandfather. That's the guy, like

485
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: I mean, And then he came on time to our

486
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: gymnasium and people just I mean, you know, he just

487
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: he was funny. He was good. It was funny. My

488
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: first official visit ever was University of Texas, which you know,

489
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: for a first visit for a kid from small town.

490
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: When you get to that place, your eyes were, you know,

491
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, my god, Okay, so but you're

492
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: from South Dakota, Nebraska. But I thought, you're in Kansa.

493
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: Where are you in Kansas City Blue Springs, which is

494
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: a suburb. It's east probably about ten miles east of

495
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: Arrowheads Stadium on. But it was much smaller than right that. Yeah,

496
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of now growing it, but it was smaller. Uh.

497
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: I will say this, my class high school class was

498
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: the first one of four hundred kids, so it was

499
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: kind of multiplying as we were going. My brother three

500
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: years ahead might have had a hundred twenty kids in

501
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: their class, so we were kind of the first of

502
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: the big classes. Saying, what do you remember about your visit?

503
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe how pretty the girls were, how big

504
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: the place was. And I think it was the only

505
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: visit I had where the guy who the player that

506
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 1: showed me around for a while, he turned me over

507
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: to an alumni that showed me around for a while,

508
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: and so so the alumni who showed me around. Uh,

509
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 1: I was on the same visit with um Lissa Thompson

510
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: sal end up going there and so less from Cincinnati,

511
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 1: I think, but it was it was interesting because the

512
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: aluma was just say, here's how it works at Texas

513
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: and then his most important point was just beat Arkansas.

514
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: That that's what you need to do when you come here.

515
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: But no, it was big. It was eye opening. It

516
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: was eye opening. Um, how did you turn down the

517
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: Kansas State? If you grew up a Kansas state, then

518
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: you know it started growing in the fact that, um,

519
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: here was a wise move, maybe by Norm Stewart. My

520
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: brother Bob, six years older than me, uh, was at

521
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: South Dakota State, was gonna go to law school with

522
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: then decided to go into coaching. I think he was

523
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: one year grad assistant there and he wrote letters to

524
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: all the Big eight schools and Norm hired him. And

525
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: I might have been a junior in high school then. Um,

526
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: Bob wasn't allowed to recruit me from my mom and dad,

527
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: but you know he could. He could tell me a

528
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: lot of things going on with the program that no

529
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: one else could. And the reality was it got down

530
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: to really Missouri in Arkansas, Um, Arkansas. Here's here's another

531
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: good one. Arkansas. In seventy nine, the first round of

532
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: the n C Double A tournament, We're played on campuses

533
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: and they were playing at Allan field House. So Moncreeft

534
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: senior year I'm a senior high school. My dad and myself,

535
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: we get two front row tickets right behind the bench.

536
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: Arkansas beat that's a mistake, I've that's it's a mistake

537
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: for the I guaranteed. I don't know. If ever you've

538
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: never listen my pod, I'll tell you. Tell you my

539
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: my visit that was like that and why I didn't

540
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: go there? Go ahead, go so but here's what's cool.

541
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: Mon creef in Arkansas. I think they beat Weber State.

542
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: That's on my mind. But the next game was Indiana

543
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: State Larry Bird. So for a kid, uh you know

544
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: when Bird walked out and they had to sheriff patrol

545
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: by him, I mean, it was pretty cool, Like you're like,

546
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: holy smokes, right, here's the real guy. So what was it?

547
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: What was it? What was the Larry Bird experience? Like,

548
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: what was he like in college? This is before me,

549
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: it's only I'm everything I know is is legend. What

550
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: what do you remember about watching Larry play? Well, because

551
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: because of what he was doing that year, right, they

552
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: were undefeated and he was the talk of the world,

553
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: and they weren't on a lot, but they were on

554
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: a little bit. But then here we got to see

555
00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: him up close. It was. It was probably the the

556
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: greatest thing a kid could see because he was he

557
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: was bigger than life like. He wasn't some six six

558
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: four right, He's six ten, six ten a half shooting

559
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: it from wherever, dominating a college game that most didn't dominate,

560
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: not domint he just dominated. He toyed with everybody. Uh

561
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: And and I was in the first row just watching,

562
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: in admiring. Again, that's right after watching Sydney Moncrief do

563
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: his thing for Arkansas, but in a different way. You know,

564
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: Sydney was disciplined and doing all this stuff, and Bird

565
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: was just out there chit chatting and saying stuff and

566
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: you couldn't hear at all. I heard it more when

567
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: I was pro than I could that day. But uh no,

568
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: it was. It was a treat. But so you're you're

569
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: saying you shouldn't sit right behind the bench. Well, okay,

570
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: so here's I've told this on the pot a little bit.

571
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: So Jerry Green was the organ and uh turs was

572
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: on staff. Mark Tursan was on staff, and a guy

573
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: named Darren Kaylish is on staff. And so when I

574
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: try us from uh Notre Dame, I sat out of

575
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: your junior college. And I did so for for really

576
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: for one reason, which was when I because you commit early,

577
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: like I remember committing in assigning in November, right. And

578
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: I went to see Notre Dame play in December and

579
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: they played Little Merriamount and I was like, woof, they're

580
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: not great and they won that game. Then they played

581
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: San Diego like two nights later and they're down thirty

582
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: one at the half, and I turned to my dad

583
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: and was like, what did we do? You know, because

584
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: the only time we watched Notre Dame play was they

585
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: played U c l A every year, right, that was

586
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: I remember them playing in U c l A and

587
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: maybe playing Indiana. I was like, you know, I went

588
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: there and the fight song and the I was gonna

589
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: be the starting point guard in the Big East and

590
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: all that stuff. John McCloud, but I'd never really watched

591
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: him play, and I watched the play like, oh shit,

592
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: what did I do? So um, So I like bowed

593
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: to myself as much as I wanted. There's a couple

594
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: of schools Huggins wanted me to train us for in Cincinnati,

595
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: and being a problem child, that seemed if you know,

596
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: they need a point guard but I was like, no,

597
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sit this year. My high school coach my

598
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: freshman year was a junior college coach, so I practiced

599
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: with them and then I would help him coach in

600
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: the games. Or I'd go and see. I had a

601
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: girlfriend and my brother was at cal Polly. My girlfriend

602
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: was at UC Santa Barbara, so I'd go up there

603
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: for a weekend and watch a couple of watch a

604
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: couple of games. UM. Anyway, so I took my visits

605
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: during the seasons. I want to see what these teams

606
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: were like and what it would feel like. Uh. So

607
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: I actually visited Oklahoma State the day before I go

608
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: to Oregon and taken on Arizona. That was the Arizona

609
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: w in the National Championship and they actually organ actually

610
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: won the game. But the old Mac Court they had

611
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: bleachers that the players sat on. UM. They did do

612
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: a renovation before they closed it down where the players

613
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: were in chairs, but this is before that, so this

614
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: is ninth seven. The players are in on the end

615
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: of the bleachers. They had little paddings for them to

616
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: sit on, and then you could sit basically your knees

617
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: backing up to the players. So Jerry Green was a

618
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: North Carolina system guy, so they're big sale was, hey,

619
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: we have we got a point guard who can take

620
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: himself in and out of the game. He calls the offense,

621
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: he calls the defense. It was great. Like I'm like,

622
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: this is awesome. Come sit watch you'll see how much

623
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: the kid's names Kenya Wilkins who I played against him,

624
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: going really good. L a guard um and he They're right,

625
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: he did. He called the defense. He took himself in

626
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: out of the game. You know, the problem is that

627
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: when you're sitting and you've been on every bench ever,

628
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: is the second that coach comes down and takes you

629
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: out and walks away, the chatter starts, right, the chatter

630
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: starts and and and Jerry again Carolina guy, Like I

631
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: hate the way they sub They just I don't. There's

632
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: hockey substitutions. Guys are running in and out and the

633
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: players were not into the substitution rotation. They won the

634
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: game and throughout the game like this month doesn't know

635
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,919
Speaker 1: what He's like, it's unbelievable. And I'm just sitting there

636
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: and and Oregon was a little weird for me, you know,

637
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: I was just I mean, I was at Notre Dame,

638
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: which is this Christine Catholic school, and I go and

639
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: and they beat Arizona. And Kyle Milling, who has been

640
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: on the pot he he was my was my AU

641
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: teammate and host. We went to a party and it

642
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: was like Cheech and Chong's band and it was it

643
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: was a little I was like, man, I don't know,

644
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: like this is a little much for me. This is

645
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: a little wild, but a good portion. I you want

646
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: guys to be kind of embedded in the programs sort of,

647
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: but that was a little bit too deep of being

648
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 1: embedded because the bench chatter sometimes you know, if you're

649
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: not if you don't know, like hey that it still works.

650
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: Like I was just like, damn, um, that was I

651
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: think that's a it's a bad idea to sit behind

652
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: the bench. You know, uh, it takes the it takes

653
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: the right here, okay, but seats. So you saw them

654
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: play and you still turn down Arkansas, like what what

655
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: was I mean? Obviously your brother being at MISSOO helps.

656
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: So here here's here's the whole thing of going to Missouri.

657
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: They're recruiting Steve Japanam. It's right, the big seven footer

658
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: from De Smett High School in St. Louis recruited by everybody,

659
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: and again he's one of the big three. Ralph Sample Samboie,

660
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: Steve Japanama, who's gonna get him? Carolina Duke, Who's gonna

661
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 1: get him? Steve and I meet Uh in a basketball

662
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: game Missouri versus Kansas. Uh at the Hern Center, sit

663
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 1: by each other, know each other because of who we are,

664
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: right you know each other, hadn't been to camps together,

665
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: visit a little bit. I started thinking about I want

666
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: to go where there's a good center, and Arkansas Scott

667
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: Hastings with a freshman, he'd been one year older than me,

668
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 1: and he was gonna be good. Um, Kansas State. I

669
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: didn't think first sure what they were doing with their recruiting.

670
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: Texas was fine because I thought Las I was going

671
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 1: to go there. Kansas was recruiting me and I always

672
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: had players, I mean Kansas had probaly intimidity intimidated me

673
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: with Kansas because they always had these national players and

674
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure I could play there. Yeah, Ted, but

675
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: they had Darnell Valentine and I mean, you know, just great,

676
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: great talent. One night at the final four Bird Magic,

677
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 1: they played on Monday night and my finals are on Saturday.

678
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 1: I get a call Saturday night from Steve span Vidge.

679
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: He said, hey, where are you thinking of going? I said,

680
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. I have I have my official visit

681
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 1: left next week in Arkansas. And I said to him,

682
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: are you going to Notre Dame? Because that was he

683
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 1: he went to a Catholic high school. Digger had him

684
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: locked up, and Steve says, and again these are two

685
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: seven teen year od kids. Steve says, you know, I

686
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 1: don't really know about that, and I'm on the phone going,

687
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: well what are you thinking? And I'm not sure which

688
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: of the other said, well, we could both go to Missouri.

689
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: And as we talked for about five more minutes, because

690
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: neither one of us said a whole lot, you know,

691
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna say if you go, I'll go. And I

692
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: told Steve, I said, okay, but I still haven't a

693
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: visit to go to Arkansas, and I still want to

694
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: go in the official visits. I've been down there a

695
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: few times. We had a local alum in my hometown

696
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: of Blue Springs would fly me down to go to

697
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: Barne Hill and watch, you know, watch some games. So

698
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: Sunday passes. I don't even tell my parents about the conversation.

699
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: I don't tell him. Monday, the Bird Magic matchup. I'm

700
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: in my gym, shooting around in my high school gym,

701
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: Gary Garner. They Missouri put had an assistant coming to

702
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: my high school every day, and they had an assistant

703
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: go to Steve's high school every day every day. And

704
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: I would you know, we're about an hour and a

705
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: half from Columbia, so is Steve. And I would tell

706
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: the assistant, Coach Garner, you don't have to come see

707
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: me every day. He saw, I'm gonna be here every day.

708
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: He walked send the gym on that Monday. Remember there's

709
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,919
Speaker 1: not there's not Twitter, there's not social media. So he said,

710
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: did you hear the news? And that's three o'clock in

711
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: the afternoon, and I'm working out with a kid named

712
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: Steve Harris. Uh. Steve ended up going to Tulsa, became

713
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: a pro. Passed away about ten years ago cancer. But

714
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 1: so Steve and I are working out. He's two years

715
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: younger than me. And Coach Garner walks in said, you

716
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: hear the news? I said, what news is that? Now?

717
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: This is a day and two days after I talked

718
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: to Stepanist about being quiet. We'll do this, but be quiet.

719
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: He said. Steve announced he's going to missoo I said,

720
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: he did. He goes, yeah, and he said he hopes

721
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: his good friend John En Sumbolt's going to. So I'm

722
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: just standing there, going holy sh it. So I leave

723
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: the coach out there now he's talking to Steve Harris.

724
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,720
Speaker 1: I go in there in the locker room. I called

725
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: my dad. I called my mom first, she's at home.

726
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 1: My dad owned the lumber yard. Call my mom, call

727
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,439
Speaker 1: my dad. I said, hey, Dad, I'm gonna tell coach

728
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: Garner I'm going to Missouri. And my dad said, you are.

729
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: I said yeah, I said Stepanovich and I are going together.

730
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: And my dad said, you know good, that's fine. I'm

731
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: good with that. Make sure you call the Texas coaches.

732
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: Make sure you call the Arkansas coaches, because that's who

733
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 1: we're down to, those three. So I did that, walked out,

734
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: literally walked out. Told coach Gardner, Hey, coach, I'm going

735
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: to Missouri. And he looks and says, you're what I said,

736
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to Missouri. He said, no, press conference, no.

737
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: I said, no, No, I'm going to Missouri. That's it.

738
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: So he runs down the hall we go called Norm

739
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: Stewart out in Salt Lake, and uh, it was crazy

740
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: because I'm at one side of the state. Stepana Vich

741
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: is on the other side of state. Right, he was

742
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: McDonald's American and let's say I was a top fifty

743
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: who knows whatever number. Uh, it was crazy from that

744
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: time forward. So it was it was fun. The butterfly

745
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: effect of that phone call, right, I mean your your

746
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: entire life. Yeah, yeah, thank you about because because obviously

747
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: now with where you live, with your investment company, with

748
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: you know, your career, even your career as a broadcast

749
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: you like everything. It doesn't mean that it wouldn't have

750
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: happened at Texas in Arkansas, but there's no guarantee. Really

751
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: is amazing. It's just kind of one phone call. So

752
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: and what's interesting my dad. My dad stayed out of

753
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: it as much as he could, but he would always

754
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: give me advice and say, you know, the thing you'll

755
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 1: have as an athlete is that you will make contexts

756
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: and wherever you go play, maybe you should stay in

757
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: that area. Like if you want to live in Texas,

758
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: go play at the University of Texas. He would say

759
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: that knowing is a seventeen year old, you have no

760
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: idea where you want to live, right. I will say this.

761
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: When I went down and watched uh TCU play Arkansas

762
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: on one of those flights with the with the alum,

763
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: and I'm standing there outside the locker room in Sydney Moncrief,

764
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk to him afterwards. I'm standing with the assistant.

765
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: Sydney told someone at the time, there's nothing like playing

766
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 1: for your homestead. Now I remembered it, right, I'm standing

767
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,479
Speaker 1: there as a kid, thinking that's interesting what he said.

768
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean that phone called that Steve Stependtra

769
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: He picked up the phone and said, uh, we could

770
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: just stay home. Uh yeah, yeah, changes your whole life.

771
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: Did you get there? Who was it like? It was hard? Uh?

772
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: Division once hard? Right? And I was I'm not saying

773
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: a hot shot kid, but I scored thirty points a

774
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: game and twelve assists. And but you get to a

775
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 1: program that's Division one, it's tough, and Norm Stewart was tough,

776
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: and early on I was coming off the bench and

777
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: just doing my thing right I could. I didn't play

778
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: because I could make shots. I played because I could

779
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: guard guys. I handled the ball without making mistakes, and

780
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: I could make free throws. So I joined a team

781
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: that we lost. We lost a guard art It's semester

782
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: to grades, and now I'm a starting guard next to

783
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: though Larry Drew, who's still coaching in the NBA. I

784
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: think with the Clippers, Larry Drew was one of the

785
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 1: best point guards in the country and we had an

786
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 1: unbelievable team. UM made it to the Sweet six. Team

787
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: could have been maybe the best team I've ever played on,

788
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 1: and I was probably the weakest link as a freshman.

789
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: UH made big shots when I had to. If we

790
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: played Kansas State and Jack Hartman ran the zone, you know,

791
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 1: Larry Drew said, Hey, Sonny, we're gonna need you tonight.

792
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: You shoot it, you know, and I'd make nine bombs

793
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: against their zone, you know. But regularly I was just

794
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: the sidekick to Larry Drew, right just I might guard

795
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: the best guard on the other team. It took pressure

796
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: off Larry again, handle the basketball, don't make mistakes, make

797
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: free throw So that team was really good. We we well,

798
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: we still have the record fifty seven point three percent

799
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: field goal percentage UM, unheard of, and UH team average

800
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 1: seventy eight points a game, shooting fifty seven percent, so

801
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: we were good. We upset Notre Dame. We won the

802
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: Big Eight. Missouri hadn't been winning the Big Eight a

803
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: whole bunch, so they won in seventy six, first time

804
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: forty years. So we won the Big Eight, advanced the

805
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: second round of the n C Double A. We beat

806
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: a Notre Dame team with um Trapuca, Tracy Jackson, Orlando

807
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: woold Rich, Rich Branding, John Paxson, and we beat him.

808
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: Played up in Lincoln, Nebraska, and you appreciate this because

809
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: you you've been to Lincoln, Nebraska. It was a regional

810
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: game and n C Double A. Notre Dame was a

811
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: heavy favorite, but we had all the court Husker fans

812
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: on our side, like they they it was kind of

813
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: like they bonded with the Big eight school and we

814
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: won in overtime. So then lost in the Sweet sixteen

815
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: an l s U team that supposedly was going to

816
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: run us off the floor, but they couldn't, and when

817
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: they got the league no shot clock stalled, did some things.

818
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: But that was a good team. So a rude awakening,

819
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 1: because as you know, it's a hard it's a hard

820
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: level Um, when did you become a start? When was it?

821
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: Wanted to become kind of your team. So the next year,

822
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: Larry Drew leaves UH and Steve Japana, which was great

823
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: as freshman year. We come back and we're gonna be

824
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: nationally ranked, but we don't really have Larry Drew. And

825
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: so now it's the balls in my hands. And I

826
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: wasn't ready, not that I didn't work at it, because

827
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: I worked at it. Uh. We opened up Alaska Shootout

828
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 1: in Arkansas drills is Darryl Walker and U s Read

829
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: And you know, I had nightmares about those guys just

830
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: ganging up on me. As to the glass, make them

831
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: turn their ass to the glass. That was that was

832
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: this thing defensively well was in Arkansas, Darryl Walker and

833
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: Mont Creep. We had the triplets. We want you to

834
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: turn your ass to the glass, brother, and they could

835
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 1: do it. And they could do it. So that season

836
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: went on, stepanovic Um got hurt, didn't play as well, struggled,

837
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: another guy get hurt. We didn't have a great senior leadership.

838
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: There's probably midway through the Big Eight season when we

839
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: were struggling that I don't know if I figured it

840
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: out that I had to emerge as more of a

841
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: player than then I was doing. So I led our

842
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 1: team in scoring in the conference. Probably the greatest thing

843
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: that changed me because we're down at Oaklhoma State practicing

844
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: and Mr IBA's watching, and an assistant coach came up

845
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: after practice, one of our assistants and said, Mr. Iba

846
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: thinks you're pretty damn special. And I looked at the

847
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: coach and I thought he said that about me or

848
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: our team said no, no, you, And honestly, I think

849
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: the next night, next day, I think I had twenty six.

850
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: And so down the stretch of my sophomore year, we

851
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: somehow win seven or eight and now we're in the

852
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: league again. We were very good, but we win the

853
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: league again and then and then you just you know what.

854
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: My My game was just growth every year, just just

855
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: keep growing. The next year we were on a team

856
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: that went nineteen and O was undefeated, number one in

857
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: the country for a while, and that was a good team.

858
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: The great thing about Norm was that we he we

859
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: would play anybody. He wanted to play anybody, and that

860
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: was where he promised a Panavitch and myself, we'll see

861
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: how good we are. So that junior, no one really

862
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,439
Speaker 1: wanted to play UFS in the Hern Center, A lot

863
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: of it. Like I opened my senior year, we played

864
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: North Carolina and Michael Jordan's in the Checker Dome and

865
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: in St. Louis right neutral site, and we beat him.

866
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: And then the next year after I graduated, Missouri went

867
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: to North Carolina. We played neutral site for CBS. We

868
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: played Virginia my senior Ralph Sampson, we went to Georgetown.

869
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: The two teams that came to the Hern Center my

870
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,439
Speaker 1: senior year, Oregon State had won the Pack ten pack

871
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: whatever it was back then, they had won the organ

872
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: State had won the pack, so they had won three

873
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: years in a row. We'd won the Big Eight three year.

874
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 1: They came to the Hern Center. We drilled them, absolutely

875
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: drilled him. Okay, so let's let's let's talk her and

876
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: Center because it was it was a very cool place

877
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: to play. And I like the Antlers. They were they

878
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 1: were tame by antlers standards by the time I was there, right,

879
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: but there were still there was still some chance before

880
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: the game that were pretty funny, pretty lightning, right if

881
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: you take it that way. So I remember that, I

882
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,439
Speaker 1: remember the Antlers, but I also remember like it's kind

883
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: of a weird building where it was. It was big

884
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: and on top of you, but up top it kind

885
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: of felt like a hodgepodge. Like, yeah, I always feel

886
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: like people know, like guys, I guess we know our

887
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 1: home arena, every nook and cranny to it. Um, what's

888
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: when when your thoughts at the hern center or what

889
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: in terms of um, what it was? What it was?

890
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: Actually really liked playing and that kind of weird sort

891
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: of our architectural set up. So in the four corners

892
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 1: way up pie were classrooms. They were they were classroom

893
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: built for classrooms so they could close them off for classes.

894
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: That's why it was so weird up top. Most places

895
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: aren't like that, you know when I remember again, I

896
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 1: played there forever and I've been there for a volleyball

897
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: and it was still so steep, right, Yeah. The other

898
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: part I remember why I was steep. The section D

899
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 1: s at the very top our norm steward. If basically

900
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 1: you shot at one and one each guy got on

901
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: a bucket, you miss one of them, you find an

902
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: avenue with lane and you're going to Section D and

903
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,959
Speaker 1: back in thirty seconds, which is not very healthy. Which

904
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: is a little bit screw heat to think, but it

905
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: made some of us really good free throw. I hated

906
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: running the section D, but it was it was a

907
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: sprint up and it's very high, and then a sprint down,

908
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: so you're jumping every three or four steps. It was

909
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: kind of an ugly building, you know, it was gray

910
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: and and off green seats, so like when there's no

911
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: fans in there. Shooting wise, it wasn't a great place,

912
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: but it was our place. So and when we got

913
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: it going, you know, I didn't see the ugly green

914
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: of the gray. I mean, you know, it was loud.

915
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: It was our guys, uh not many one again. Oregon

916
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: State came in, Jim Valvano, North Carolina State came in

917
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: my senior year and played it. That was a year

918
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: they wanted and we beat him in our place. And

919
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: that was Thorow Bailey and those guys. And you know,

920
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 1: even in Valvano said this place is nuts, and it

921
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 1: wasn't it. But when you're good, any place is good.

922
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,800
Speaker 1: I'll tell you my favorite place was your place, still

923
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 1: water best. I played best in the smallest of nas

924
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: Maybe I felt bigger. I don't know what Psychologically A

925
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: hearn Field house was it more. I played great at

926
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 1: Case State, played great at Oklahoma State every year when

927
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: I got in the pros, I played great. When Chicago

928
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: Bulls were in their old building, uh, San Antonio Spurs

929
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: and I was traded there, I played always played great there.

930
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: The hemisphere felt smaller than these big domes in big places. So,

931
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 1: you know, the Herns was just a place where because

932
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: we were winning, and we had the antlers who got

933
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: to survive being close to the floor until they weren't.

934
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: Um you know, it was a part of you know,

935
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: you experienced, You wondered what they were gonna do right,

936
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: and it was always even up So the first our

937
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: first trip up there, this isn't my two Missouri stories.

938
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,240
Speaker 1: My first show was their norms there. So what what's

939
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: interesting about coach Stewart is um I had heard him

940
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: speak my Daddy's take me the all the final fource.

941
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: I had heard him speak, and he was hysterical. But

942
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: what was funny was, huh unless you played for him,

943
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: he was really funny. Correct. No, I mean they're all

944
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: like that, right, and then you graduate and all of

945
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: a sudden you become normal, normal human beings again, you know. Um,

946
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 1: So I had heard him speak and it was him

947
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: and Roy Williams, and then they had Johnny Or afterwards,

948
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 1: and I'll never forget that. I never forget this line.

949
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: Like Johnny Or is like they called the Big Dwell

950
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: Now all the call dirty, doesn't Every one of them

951
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: sons of bitches were cheating. Everyone's sons of bitches got

952
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: called cheating. We were cheating worse and worse than all

953
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: of them. You know. It was one of those deals.

954
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 1: Was very funny. So I knew very I had seen

955
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: Missoo play. Um. The Melvin Booker team played Louisville in

956
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 1: the n c A tournament at the Sports Marine in

957
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: l A. Yeah, I was doing the radio for and

958
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: I was so I went. I went, and I was like,

959
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: I loved how he at least that version of coach Stewart.

960
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: He kind of had three sort of positionless guards like

961
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: Anthony Peeler, right, wasn't you know? And they just it

962
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: was kind of take them ball, right, It was just

963
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: like whoever got it, let's go. And they played. I

964
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: thought they played together really well. So I liked him.

965
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: And again this year I'm sitting out. Um. There was

966
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: like the first wave of schools recruiting me, and then

967
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 1: I took my visits and then very late in the process,

968
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: Kelvin called and Norm Stewart called, I'm never getting like.

969
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: Norman Stewart was just like, uh, you're about six too,

970
00:51:54,640 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: aren't you. No coach, like not close? You know, well,

971
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: I know you shoot the hell out of it. And

972
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: I was just like, no, coach, not close. Yeah, And

973
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 1: it was like he offered me kind of sight unseen.

974
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if my dad had sent him a

975
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: tape or something like that. Um so, but my my

976
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: two U Hern's stories are like this. So the first

977
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: time we go up there, we weren't supposed to be

978
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: very good. We were picked last in the South, and

979
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 1: we were pretty good, and we hadn't played anybody in

980
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:31,439
Speaker 1: the nonconference for the most part, and uh, we lost

981
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 1: like Nebraska at home, which anybody remembers the Big twelve.

982
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: Nebraska was the worst road team ever and they had

983
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 1: Cookie Belcher and they had Tyler and they were very talented.

984
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: But we're up like thirteen nothing start the game, and

985
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: we started subbing and we end up losing the game.

986
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: So we go up to Missoo and coached in a

987
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: bad mood and there's like an ice storm coming. So

988
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,959
Speaker 1: we land late and we go to have practice late,

989
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 1: and we get done and we go to the Olive

990
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 1: Garden for dinner night before a game, and the manager

991
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: of the all Garden could not have been any nicer.

992
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: And it was like, um, Coach Sutton, sir, I don't

993
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: know how to tell you this, Like our kitchens closed

994
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: and like Coach Sutton's like, will you tell you go

995
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: back there? You tell Mandy Sutton's boys were hungry, and

996
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 1: I kid you not, Like guys were checking out there,

997
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: taking off their aprons. And next thing you know, we

998
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 1: got pasta and salad and bread sticks and we eat.

999
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: So we go in there AND's ice storm, so it's

1000
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: like half full and it was and and again those

1001
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 1: ugly seats and I'm like, is this place? This place sucks,

1002
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: you know? And I was like, there's a lot of

1003
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: thiets was empty. We end up losing. We had we

1004
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: got I thought we got screwed the refs. We messed

1005
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 1: around and we end up losing the game. But I

1006
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: was utterly and completely unimpressed because, like you said, it's

1007
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: not a particularly nice, asthetically pleasing, nice building. We come

1008
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 1: back two years later because you know, he played every

1009
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: other year, and Quinn's there and their talented key on duelings,

1010
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: they're they're pretty talented, and um uh, it's a zoo

1011
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: and the antlers are chanting all kinds of stuff and

1012
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: the places packed, and we beat them, and I think

1013
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 1: they made a run the Termit that year. The next

1014
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: year they met at lead eight or something. We we

1015
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: beat him, but they were really and we actually played

1016
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: really really well. We end up beat him by like

1017
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: eight or twelve, and that was probably one of the

1018
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: best basketball games we played. We had to raise our

1019
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 1: level and it was an absolute zoo. And I remember

1020
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: walking out going I can't believe that's the same place right, like,

1021
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 1: that place was awesome. That was one of the five

1022
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: best places I've ever played. But I played in the

1023
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 1: same building two years before. It was half full and

1024
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: I was walking out like this place sucks that. Those

1025
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: are my two hern Center turn Center memories. And it

1026
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: was a great when the teams were good Missouri. It

1027
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: was hard to beat him there, to be honest, Um, Okay,

1028
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: so you get down played, now, why why do you

1029
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: think he could never get the final four? What? What?

1030
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: What was it that you know? I don't know. I

1031
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: don't know. You know, it's a it's a it's a

1032
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,399
Speaker 1: bounce of a ball. Here, you know, my my junior year,

1033
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: we were again number one for a while. You get

1034
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: in the n C Double A. I don't know who.

1035
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: I think. We beat Tulsa. We meet Houston in the

1036
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 1: sweet six team. So I'm a junior Clyde Drexler's a

1037
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 1: junior Rob Williams. It's funny, could you go Elijah One, Drexler, Mishaw,

1038
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: Michael Young. But their best player was Rob Williams was

1039
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: who is a guard nobody remembers and he went pro

1040
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 1: after that year. He was a juniors my age. So

1041
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: they beat us in the Checker Doome by a point,

1042
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: right a point, And that's the Houston. I mean you have,

1043
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 1: like I go back to my team's I go back

1044
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: to other teams that they've had chances. It's a bounce

1045
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: of a ball, it's a mis free throw. Yeah, I mean,

1046
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 1: it's a It's kind of a hard one to figure

1047
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,919
Speaker 1: out because you always think at some point someone would

1048
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: get there, even even Booker's team, which wasn't good early

1049
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 1: and they added a kid named Paul Olinnit semester and

1050
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: they go through the Big Eight undefeated, and they get

1051
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 1: out there in l A and they get beat by Arizona.

1052
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: Now Arizona was terrific. And that was to go to

1053
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: the final four. So you know what, whether whether the

1054
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: teams weren't talent enough, I don't know about that, because

1055
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,959
Speaker 1: some were pretty good. Or again a bounce of ball

1056
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 1: here or a misshot or a screw up. You know what?

1057
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: What he made him specialist coach? Uh, I would say,

1058
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 1: I would say his discipline to detail, uh, detailed discipline.

1059
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: I should say, Hey, everything was highly calculated. We we

1060
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:48,320
Speaker 1: everything was practiced right every situation. Now, not every player

1061
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: could play for him. A lot of guys transferred in

1062
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,919
Speaker 1: today's world. I think you'd have about ten ship out

1063
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 1: ten come in question. I loved it because I was

1064
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: I'm a disciplined guy. I didn't like. I didn't like

1065
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: going to practice and jacking around. It wasn't It's not

1066
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: my personality. So going to work, going to practice was

1067
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: good for me. Um if if it had to, if

1068
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: it had to be a detailed situation, that I loved it.

1069
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: And then I'll be honest. I have them. I played

1070
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: the most minutes of anybody in the history of Missouri.

1071
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's that's that's on the board, and

1072
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 1: the most minutes ever in one season average thirty eight

1073
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: minutes a game. That's a well it is because of

1074
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: how Norman's right, because he didn't like, guy, if you

1075
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: made a mistake. And I got that my freshman year.

1076
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 1: But after that, the only time I came out with

1077
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 1: my senior year at Kansas, I think I was trying

1078
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: too hard. Right, It's Kansas, And all of a sudden,

1079
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: the buzzer goes off in a free throwing out and

1080
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: I paying attention, and a guy tapped me on the

1081
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 1: shoulder and I gotta go out, and I'm looking over like,

1082
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: what the hell is going on here? He sits me down,

1083
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 1: choose me out pretty good for about I don't know

1084
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: five or six seven, which to me was an eternity.

1085
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: And then I go back in and hit a shot

1086
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: at the buzzer and make Steve something. At halftime, he

1087
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:08,479
Speaker 1: slapped me upside the head and said, you know that's better.

1088
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: But I understood it, and you what you try to

1089
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: explain to other guys when I came back to do

1090
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: I came back, I wasn't getting into broadcasting. I wanted

1091
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 1: to build a financial business. The university called and said, hey,

1092
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 1: will you do the radio? And I said no, no,

1093
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: and then Norm called the next day we need you

1094
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: to do the radio. Okay, so I'll do the radio.

1095
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: But I remember having remember being on those plane rides.

1096
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 1: I remember we go up to Nebraska. There are two guys. Uh,

1097
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: we get they get hammered, they get beat by the

1098
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: cornhus was we get on the bus and a guy

1099
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: says to me. He says, hey, how do you play

1100
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: for him? And I said, uh, what do you mean?

1101
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: He goes, Wow, he's so hard he can't you know.

1102
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: He's on us. He's just said, let me ask you

1103
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: two things. I said, practice gonna be hard tomorrow, and

1104
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 1: the kids said, yeah, it's gonna be really hard. I said,

1105
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: all right, you got that figured out. I said, is

1106
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: he gonna call you a m effort tomorrow? A few times? Yeah?

1107
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: I go, so there you go. You got it. It's it.

1108
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 1: I said, in between all that, he's trying to win.

1109
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: He's not trying to beat you down. So I I

1110
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: love the challenge that he was putting on me. And

1111
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: the challenge on me was from that freshman year on

1112
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 1: whether he thought I was gonna be really good. I

1113
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: look back, and he must have thought I was gonna

1114
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: be really good. He put it on me every day,

1115
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: like every day, why I didn't know everybody's strength and weakness,

1116
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: every player, every you know, scouting report, every It never ended,

1117
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: which was good for me. I could run down my

1118
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: twelve guys on a team and tell you exactly why

1119
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: I wasn't throwing in the ball seven ft from the bucket,

1120
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: but three ft from the bucket right. Every but I got.

1121
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: I love that. I love you know, playing chests or

1122
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 1: whatever that was. That was my world. So you know

1123
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 1: that's what I liked about he. Now, he was a

1124
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: big dude, held his chest out. So one of his

1125
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: pet peeves was when we went on the road. If

1126
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: we're let's pick Lincoln, Nebraska, we're gonna have let's say

1127
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 1: the games at one, we're gonna have early breakfast, and

1128
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: we're going for a walk and it's still like ten

1129
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: degrees outside, right, yeah, every place. I don't care ten

1130
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: degrees atward. You know you can see us as college

1131
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: players not really happy. He led the way though, and

1132
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: a car would go by and honk, and uh, you know,

1133
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 1: Norm might say, hey, kiss my ass. You'll get on

1134
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 1: your tractor, you corn husker? Now again, all right, here

1135
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 1: we go, game on. So yeah, I appreciate it those

1136
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: kind of things. There are a lot of players that

1137
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: fought him. I didn't fight him. I thought I thought

1138
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: he and I were on the same page. I'm pretty hardheaded.

1139
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 1: So there were some games we probably butted heads on

1140
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:55,919
Speaker 1: the floor, right. Um. I always thought you could see

1141
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 1: something different on the floor than what they saw on

1142
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: the sideline. I wasn't convince to that, and he one't

1143
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,439
Speaker 1: convention of that, but I would try to argue that

1144
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: what you're seeing isn't what's happened. I totally agree with.

1145
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: Like I, I look back, and it's interesting people they

1146
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 1: all the time, like I led the country and assist.

1147
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 1: I let the country assist with the fewest minutes anyone's

1148
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 1: ever let the country and assist. That year, I average

1149
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 1: like twenty six minutes a game. You know, I average

1150
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 1: twenty eight minutes game at at at Notre Dame as

1151
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 1: a freshman. You know, even though the first four games

1152
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: I came off the bench, that's because you drove Eddy crazy.

1153
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 1: I drove him crazy. But also you know, like he

1154
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: I was this whipping boy. I was the guy he

1155
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: could he couldn't yell at desn't Mason doesn't. Mason was

1156
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 1: a great player and a great competitor, but if you

1157
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: yelled at him, you got on him. He took it

1158
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: personally and it wasn't wasn't great. So if he got

1159
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: onto me, Desmond was kind of a protector and he

1160
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: would it would he like take up for his teammates.

1161
01:01:55,400 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 1: Was a really interesting dynamic. Um, but I got thrown

1162
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 1: out of the game of the u c L A

1163
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 1: my u c L A game only game. I came

1164
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: back home to play at halftime, like right before halftime,

1165
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 1: I got a second taxico fouls. Weird deal anyway, So

1166
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 1: I was in the doghouse for eight games, and like

1167
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 1: I went from averaging fourteen and eleven to just like

1168
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: seven and nine assists or something. And but but I

1169
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 1: was always jealous of guys that didn't come out of

1170
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 1: the game because they didn't so I had I did

1171
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: have one game. Um, we lost to Kansas the one

1172
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 1: time we played up in Lawrence and Joe Atkins by

1173
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: two guard got hurt. He was the backup point. So

1174
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:40,439
Speaker 1: the funniest thing happened. Senior day we played Texas Tech

1175
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: and that's uh. Rayer Young was their star with Stan Bonowitz.

1176
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 1: It was a good team and we never lost to them. Um,

1177
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 1: but they're coming to town and we don't have a

1178
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 1: backup point. Like literally no one who's brought, no one.

1179
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 1: Those guys would never touch the ball bringing the ball

1180
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: up the court. They knew that was not their domain

1181
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 1: and that was not what they did, and so he

1182
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 1: just I think, just kind of knee jerk reaction. I

1183
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: would take a shot, and by by that time my career,

1184
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 1: in my junior year, like literally if I missed a shot,

1185
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: I knew I'm coming out regardless it was a good

1186
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,479
Speaker 1: shot of bad shot, because every shot became a bad shot.

1187
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 1: I was such a bad shooter at some point in time.

1188
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: That game, I played thirty eight and a half minutes,

1189
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: but I was taken out of the game five times,

1190
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 1: and he would he would take me out, and then

1191
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 1: the guys would literally argue of each other like who

1192
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 1: would have to bring the ball up to court? And

1193
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 1: Tech finally check out Smart and every time I was out,

1194
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: they pressed and it was and he do you go

1195
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 1: back in there and do bed? So so you're basically

1196
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 1: my idol playing thirty eight minutes a game. I never

1197
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 1: no okay again, and you would know this from from

1198
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 1: playing norms. I mean, the two guys that worked the

1199
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 1: hardest in my four year were Japanovich and myself, Like Steve.

1200
01:03:56,120 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: Steve was just a workhorse, wanted to be good, just

1201
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:01,919
Speaker 1: kind of stay out of his way, right, he didn't

1202
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 1: have time for the lollygag. And I never after the

1203
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 1: one guy flunked out a semester my freshman year, I

1204
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: never lost a sprint ever. Oh yeah, it's it's a

1205
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 1: weird it's it is. It's an interesting thing. Like, so

1206
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 1: I coached my son now, right, he's twelve, and he's

1207
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:23,040
Speaker 1: a little he's like me as a late bloomer um

1208
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 1: and a little bit late to the au scene, right,

1209
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 1: like a lot of these kids they started like third

1210
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: fourth grade, and it's he's a little brother. But he

1211
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 1: has two older sisters, so he's not as kind of

1212
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 1: tough and scrappy as as I was when I was

1213
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: a little brother. But you know, one of the things

1214
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 1: I have always told him is like, look, I cannot

1215
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 1: make you taller. Hey, I cannot. You're a better looking

1216
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 1: than I am, but I can't make you better looking.

1217
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 1: There's certain things you're not gonna be able to do.

1218
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 1: But you know what you can do is you can

1219
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:51,959
Speaker 1: win every sprint. Okay, because because it's not really about

1220
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 1: how fast you are. I make one. He's pretty fast.

1221
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 1: You know both of us were fast, you and me um.

1222
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:01,959
Speaker 1: But it's just about like, hey, you want to show

1223
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 1: people that you want to lead, you want to be

1224
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 1: point guard, you want to be your team. Those are

1225
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 1: things you have to do. You gotta be early and

1226
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 1: on time and ready to go. You gotta not just

1227
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 1: tell people what you need to know everywhere, everybody's supposed

1228
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 1: to be at every play, and then you can win

1229
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 1: every sprint. Those are things that you can control. The

1230
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 1: other thing ball goes in, doesn't go in, doesn't doesn't matter.

1231
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: And I think it's an interesting thing that I don't know.

1232
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: I remember. Here's it. Here's one about any setting that

1233
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 1: people don't know, never been told before. We were we

1234
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 1: very very seldom did we run lines. It was punishment

1235
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 1: or you read the steps we had. You had you

1236
01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: go count those steps. I know how many there are

1237
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: going back and Joe right, and but when we did run,

1238
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: he wasn't a stickler for guys touching the line. And

1239
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 1: I was like it took me, Like it took me

1240
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:56,439
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, and like this is some bullshit here, right,

1241
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna touch the touch the line guy, right,

1242
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 1: like you're gonna do it, touch the line. And I

1243
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 1: remember these guys like beating me at sprints, like yo,

1244
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 1: they're missing the line by a yard. So he calls

1245
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 1: me in one day and he goes, uh, hey, I

1246
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: noticed you haven't been winning the sprints as much once

1247
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 1: we started like practicing. And I said, um, the coach,

1248
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: you know, listen, I won't happen again. I didn't say

1249
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 1: anything about the lines, and he goes, I know they're

1250
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 1: missing the lines. You know, I see it right. I

1251
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 1: was like, no, coach, I thought. She's like, it's like no,

1252
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 1: this is He goes, you know, and god, he went

1253
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 1: into some story about golf. He's like, knowing golf, you

1254
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: call fouls on yourself, right, it's about your honor. And

1255
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: he goes, you think I don't see it. He's like,

1256
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 1: you don't think I know who's getting shots. You don't

1257
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 1: think I know who's touching the line. And I go, now,

1258
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 1: it's your job if you want to run my team

1259
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: to get them to touch the line, not my job.

1260
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 1: You get them to touch the line pretty good, And

1261
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 1: so I said, okay, coach, And after that I started

1262
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: calling dudes out, Hey, motherfucker, touched the fucking line. But

1263
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 1: we touched lines here and and it clipped. And I

1264
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 1: had no idea, Like I was, this is like a

1265
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 1: couple of months into the season, because we started he

1266
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 1: only ran really like Christmas time. When we come back

1267
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 1: from break, we'd have he'd run, we'd built up runs

1268
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 1: or whatever. And I never I never forgot that, and

1269
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:26,919
Speaker 1: I haven't told that story that he was a weird

1270
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 1: It was a weird deal with this guy's medicine lines.

1271
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 1: And I was like, I thought this was a discipline program.

1272
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 1: We got discipline on our ass were practicing here. We're not.

1273
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 1: We're not disciplined. And he's like, I see it. It's

1274
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: your job to make sure they touched the line. But

1275
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 1: you know those guys like norm or they didn't miss anything, right,

1276
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 1: they're not. They're not missing anything. No, we were a

1277
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 1: little opposite. We ran a lot, We ran a lot

1278
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: of lines, like we were the worst in our situation.

1279
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 1: Wasn't if if norm came down in the Herm Center

1280
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 1: on floor number three, the third level, that's where his

1281
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 1: office was, and for some odd read and you could

1282
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: tell if you weren't in a good mood for whatever reason.

1283
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 1: And the worst, the worst always is if he told

1284
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 1: the managers to put the balls up like away, and

1285
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 1: you thought, holy sh two hours of defense and running

1286
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 1: like and you know, in my mind, I'm like, you

1287
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 1: can't play the game without a ball, But there they go,

1288
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 1: like there there go the balls. Look at him rocking

1289
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 1: down here, and then you don't look at each other

1290
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:28,919
Speaker 1: like all right, nobody talked back, nobody, you know, everybody

1291
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 1: you dive on. I mean, you didn't want this to

1292
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:33,680
Speaker 1: be a And there were no rules about time, right,

1293
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 1: there were no limits, but how long you could be there?

1294
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 1: We had rules, but we had a clock. Remember, old Gallagher,

1295
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,720
Speaker 1: there's a clock behind you looked up right behind one

1296
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 1: of the baskets. You looked up to the right before that,

1297
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:46,599
Speaker 1: there's a clock. And guys would be sitting there, would

1298
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: be at practice and practically going like two and a

1299
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 1: half three hours and dudes looking at the clock. And

1300
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 1: he'd go at patois one of the guys died in crash.

1301
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:55,760
Speaker 1: You pat snake, you go up there and cover up

1302
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 1: that clock. All these guys clock watching like a couple

1303
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: of bird dogs block watching. So so you go in

1304
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:05,720
Speaker 1: and on the day of the game, they would have

1305
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: a sheet over the clock and they'd removed the sheet

1306
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: from the clock, like like, hey, that's that's so we

1307
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:14,719
Speaker 1: did we when I played, we did have the twenty

1308
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 1: hour rule. It just was a very greats We had

1309
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 1: no rules and the only thing you concerned about when

1310
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 1: the balls went in was when he would tell the

1311
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 1: managers to call Charlie. Charlie Rand the food place where

1312
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 1: we ate, right, tell Charlie to keep it open longer.

1313
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 1: And you thought Coach Suttons was he did he would

1314
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 1: do when he would be mad. Uh, there was. There

1315
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 1: was a bunch of different things, but one was he

1316
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:42,799
Speaker 1: would walk. He would he would say, turn to the assistants,

1317
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,639
Speaker 1: say run them to their ankles, smoke, and he would

1318
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:48,599
Speaker 1: walk out of the gym. And Coach had a heart.

1319
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 1: He had a heart. Guys like Coach, I'm I'm dying,

1320
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 1: I've been sick, I'm tired. The assistant coaches no heart,

1321
01:09:55,520 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 1: soulless human beings, and they would like take turns on you. Um,

1322
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 1: this is my this is my favorite one with the

1323
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 1: academic strategy was basically this miss class, you will pay

1324
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 1: for it. You do not miss a class, not one class.

1325
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 1: So um my senior year we had a group of

1326
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 1: because we had a big we had like six scholarship

1327
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: seniors graduated. We had a bunch of dudes sitting out

1328
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 1: as transfers. Victor Williams Kansas City kid from transferred Illinois State,

1329
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:31,639
Speaker 1: Antoin Broxi's transferred from Minnesota he's coaching now in the

1330
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: in the NBA. UM we had Jason Keith who wasn't

1331
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 1: sitting out right but should have used a junior college

1332
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 1: transfer from Idaho. UM. We had Dan Lawston who passed

1333
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 1: away in the crash. I'm trying to think we have

1334
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 1: one more that was to sit out. And then Nate

1335
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:51,560
Speaker 1: Fleming who was a walk on freshman. He died in

1336
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 1: the crash. UM. Nate was kind of with that group

1337
01:10:55,520 --> 01:11:00,639
Speaker 1: because he was the smart kid and here weren't cheat,

1338
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 1: but he was supposed to like make sure if we

1339
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 1: had a study session, he was supposed to be there

1340
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: and help lead him right. So they all had a

1341
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:12,519
Speaker 1: class Saturday morning, four hour class like history, like intro

1342
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 1: to history, okay, And basically it was like, look, it's

1343
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:20,600
Speaker 1: a Saturday class. The worst you can do if you

1344
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 1: do your work is a beat. And if you know

1345
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 1: anything about how it works, you're trying to get a

1346
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: two point oh four hours of a B four hours

1347
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 1: of an eight. Like, you're set right, four hours of me,

1348
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 1: you're pretty pretty good shaped, coach, And it's not. There's

1349
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 1: again not no funny business, like, look, this is the

1350
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:48,559
Speaker 1: class everybody goes. So probably fourth, probably fifth or sixth.

1351
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,760
Speaker 1: Weekend we've been there. The football team placed Tulsa. It's

1352
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:56,519
Speaker 1: eleven am start and their classes eight until noon, right,

1353
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 1: so the rest of us we go, we get to

1354
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:00,559
Speaker 1: work out in the morning, we take a shower, we

1355
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 1: all have we get something to eat. We walk over.

1356
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:05,439
Speaker 1: We're in the like section where all the basketball players

1357
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 1: sit for the football games, and here the dummies, right,

1358
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:14,720
Speaker 1: and they're already there. We're like, yeah, what are you

1359
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 1: guys doing? Where's your class? You hear your class, like, ah,

1360
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 1: that's like that ship just it's one class. We're like, okay, sure,

1361
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 1: I was like our expression was you fared on campus?

1362
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 1: He smells it in the office, right, he knows everything,

1363
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 1: every everything, Like you really think you're getting away with this,

1364
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:37,840
Speaker 1: Like there's one class, it's on a Saturday. Who's going on?

1365
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 1: So here comes Nate Fleming, like right before the game,

1366
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 1: He's like, hey, where are you guys. You guys, we're

1367
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: a class today, Like what happened? Like, hey, let us

1368
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 1: out early? Anyway, Like, man, you guys should have been there.

1369
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:50,559
Speaker 1: So they thought they got away with it. No, Sunday

1370
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 1: we're off, like we played pick up all in the gym,

1371
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 1: guys work out whatever. Great day. Monday I had a

1372
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 1: test and so my test was like I don't know

1373
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:04,919
Speaker 1: if we're to six or something like that, and practice

1374
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 1: was at six, so I couldn't be there at the

1375
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:12,640
Speaker 1: start of practice. I made sure coaches aware. They all

1376
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 1: knew it was good. I come walk into the gym

1377
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 1: like six oh five, and all everyone outside of those

1378
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 1: guys are walking out fully dressed, and I'm like, yeah,

1379
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 1: what happened? Like oh, they canceled practice, But you gotta

1380
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 1: go in there and see this ship. I was like,

1381
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 1: what I gotta see is like, just go see it.

1382
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 1: So I walk in and here's all these dudes on

1383
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:39,719
Speaker 1: their shorts, puffing and puffing. Victor Williams is crying, literally crying,

1384
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 1: mccoma mob coach, like you go or you tell you

1385
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 1: stip a glass. They had to do five sweet at

1386
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 1: five seventeens consecutively under a minute and if they anybody

1387
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 1: missed the time, they start over. And those poor dudes

1388
01:13:57,880 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: were there for an hour and fifteen or whatever. But

1389
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: know what, they didn't do anymore. They didn't skip a class.

1390
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 1: No one skipped a class anymore. So it was weird.

1391
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:08,320
Speaker 1: It was like this. There were parts of it which

1392
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:10,720
Speaker 1: it wasn't that they weren't disciplined. He would just kind

1393
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 1: of let it go just to kind of see, and

1394
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:17,440
Speaker 1: there were parts of it which there was intense discipline

1395
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:20,679
Speaker 1: and that kind of late. It was an interesting way

1396
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 1: of doing it right, because some places are just everything

1397
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:25,679
Speaker 1: is disciplined. Some places it feels like it's a brief

1398
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 1: for all. It seemed like there was a little bit

1399
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:30,439
Speaker 1: of a methodology to it, and every once in a

1400
01:14:30,479 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: while he would let you know, like who was boss

1401
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:35,759
Speaker 1: and how he did things, and then it just organically

1402
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 1: took care of himself. How was he on the road,

1403
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:39,759
Speaker 1: like when you guys did a road trip, was he

1404
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 1: like with food and stuff like that, because today's world

1405
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 1: is different. But that was a very very like coach

1406
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 1: setting was again, these are the things I didn't care what.

1407
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: We don't all have to wear the same sneakers. There'll

1408
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:54,280
Speaker 1: be nikes. Everybody got the team shoot at the start

1409
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:57,480
Speaker 1: of the year. And then the star player like Desmond

1410
01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 1: or Pete they like got to tell him, Hey, I

1411
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 1: want some Jordan's and sa they had air Jordan's like

1412
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 1: and then I never I had a thing if I

1413
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 1: lost the game, I'd never wore that sneaker in a

1414
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 1: game ever again. And so that was that. There was

1415
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:12,479
Speaker 1: a bit of a juggling there and negotiating with so

1416
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:14,280
Speaker 1: the walk Ons they had like one pair of shutes,

1417
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:16,640
Speaker 1: like we had a bunch of you're part of the

1418
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 1: modern era, so we weren't. We didn't get all that stuff.

1419
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:22,160
Speaker 1: So but again, but this was kind of the the

1420
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:24,639
Speaker 1: interesting part, you know, when he would do a deal

1421
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:26,840
Speaker 1: when we play like I remember we played you Teach

1422
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 1: san Antonio my senior year and we're up like thirty

1423
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:32,439
Speaker 1: five and we're running plays for Desmond. I'm like, Coach,

1424
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 1: how about we run a couple of plays for for

1425
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 1: your boy here? Like yeah, let me give him some confidence,

1426
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:39,599
Speaker 1: going like, we play Oklahoma, who do we want shooting

1427
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:41,680
Speaker 1: the basketball. I was like, well that's amasis like, well

1428
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 1: that's who's gonna shoot the ball against Texas San Antonio.

1429
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 1: You know. So that was the deal. So he was

1430
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:52,160
Speaker 1: very Um. We didn't do the student tie thing. We

1431
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 1: did sweats right now. I mean you had to. But

1432
01:15:56,400 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 1: like John McLeod was like, you would not play, you

1433
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 1: would not start if you didn't tuck in your chair.

1434
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:04,640
Speaker 1: Like his things were crazy, but he was coaches pre

1435
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:09,200
Speaker 1: relaxed about stuff, you know, wasn't I'll tell you a

1436
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:11,400
Speaker 1: good one and this and and and oh some have

1437
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 1: heard to some Evan in the Missouri world. So I'm

1438
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 1: a junior. We've got a great team. But Norm singing

1439
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 1: when we went out on the road the night before game,

1440
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:24,720
Speaker 1: we had we always had a chicken dinner somewhere, right,

1441
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:29,680
Speaker 1: and he thought, hungry dogs run faster. Okay, to eat

1442
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:33,480
Speaker 1: after like seven o'clock and then you're done. Well, obviously

1443
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:37,200
Speaker 1: he knows and we know that you can't just eat

1444
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:40,320
Speaker 1: at seven o'clock until the next morning at eight am, right,

1445
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:44,160
Speaker 1: But in his world, you're not eating. So if you

1446
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:46,680
Speaker 1: were at Iowa State. A few of a sneak out,

1447
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:50,720
Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's twenty freaking below. But we're

1448
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:53,680
Speaker 1: gonna walk quite a long way to go find a cheeseman, right,

1449
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:57,479
Speaker 1: We're just gonna find a cheetman. So we do. Some

1450
01:16:57,640 --> 01:17:00,759
Speaker 1: of the guys decided they'll just go right across the street.

1451
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 1: I was rooming with Prince Bridges and Prince was terrific backcourt,

1452
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 1: made of mind. Prince is now teaching basketball stuff in

1453
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City. So Prince was one of the guys that

1454
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:17,360
Speaker 1: just went across the street. Unbeknownst to him that coaches

1455
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 1: are sitting in whatever hotel floor looking out the window

1456
01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 1: playing cards, and Prince comes back, gets in the room.

1457
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:28,600
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, about five minutes later, there's a

1458
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:32,160
Speaker 1: knock on our door. Yeah I get you know, Prince

1459
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 1: is throwing his French fries and stuff under the bed.

1460
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:37,560
Speaker 1: He'd be caught with any this stuff. And it was Norm.

1461
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:39,719
Speaker 1: And Norm walks in and you know our room smells

1462
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:43,760
Speaker 1: like French fries, right, I mean it's the Norm says, yeah, lie,

1463
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 1: I'm hungry, Prince, you got any fries you can share

1464
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:50,120
Speaker 1: with me? And I'm sitting there thinking, oh, boy, So

1465
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 1: get this the next day where I was staying and

1466
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:56,520
Speaker 1: I was stay it's always good. It's hard to win there,

1467
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 1: but we're the big boys coming in. I always tell

1468
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 1: people we we were kind like Kansas is now, right,

1469
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:04,200
Speaker 1: when we were in four championships in a row. Here

1470
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 1: we come, a couple of all Americans. Here we come.

1471
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 1: Norm didn't coach us. He walked in before the game

1472
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:14,640
Speaker 1: kind of told us to kiss his rare end. F

1473
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 1: you guys, and he walked out. He said, you can't

1474
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 1: you guys can't stand it. You can't stand just doing

1475
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:22,679
Speaker 1: what you're supposed to do and left. So now we're

1476
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:25,760
Speaker 1: all hoddle up. We go out and play. Every time

1477
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: out we'd get in the time out, he'd look in

1478
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: the huddle, f U f U f U f uf

1479
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 1: you and then walk out. So now the assistance are nervous, right,

1480
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 1: So he got the second half, it was a pretty

1481
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:39,920
Speaker 1: good game. He pulls us in, still f us. As

1482
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:42,640
Speaker 1: we we walk out, he's f you, and but we

1483
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 1: had a good team. So we huddle up out there

1484
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:48,479
Speaker 1: and I don't know if it was my idea or

1485
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:50,920
Speaker 1: we had a senior Ricky Fraser that was off the chart. Good.

1486
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 1: We're not gonna run. We ran a triangle offense, the

1487
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:58,960
Speaker 1: triple post, which is what text winner ran, a case state,

1488
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 1: then the bulls, Well that's what we ran. That's all

1489
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 1: we ran. It's all just a passing cut movement. And

1490
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:07,280
Speaker 1: we said we're not running. We're not running the office

1491
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:08,760
Speaker 1: is what we called it. We're gonna just run a

1492
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 1: passing game. Now, norm jailing us from the sideline. Now

1493
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:15,080
Speaker 1: we're probably number three in the freaking country. Our guys

1494
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:17,800
Speaker 1: joining us on the sideline. We got hard headed dudes

1495
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:20,040
Speaker 1: out on the court, and we we go about ten

1496
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:23,439
Speaker 1: straight buckets and we win. But I mean, he he

1497
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 1: had this thing that he would just say, you can't

1498
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 1: stand not being able to follow orders, right, knowing that

1499
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:33,559
Speaker 1: he probably knew half of us walked across six blocks

1500
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:35,839
Speaker 1: in the coal to get a cheeseburgon at nine o'clock.

1501
01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 1: But the other guys did it right in front of him.

1502
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:40,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was one of the game he didn't

1503
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:42,600
Speaker 1: coach like I'll always tell him. I said, you know,

1504
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:48,280
Speaker 1: you got one win short of what he's telling your record. Well,

1505
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:50,880
Speaker 1: that that was. There was some amazing stuff in talking

1506
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 1: about his journey through Missouri. Um In the next pod,

1507
01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 1: we'll get to John's NBA career and some of the

1508
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:03,720
Speaker 1: ups and downs and trials and tribulations. What it's like

1509
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:05,600
Speaker 1: to be a first round draft pick, what it's like

1510
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:08,000
Speaker 1: to be a rookie with a group full of veterans.

1511
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:11,120
Speaker 1: What the expression is that he was taught in the

1512
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:13,479
Speaker 1: NBA when he got a D n p C D

1513
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:17,120
Speaker 1: did not play coach's decision. In the meantime, I thanks

1514
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:18,880
Speaker 1: to John for all his time. Thanks to you for

1515
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,320
Speaker 1: download reminder that Doug Gotlib shows daily three to six Eastern,

1516
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:26,000
Speaker 1: twelve to three Pacific on your I Heart radio app

1517
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:28,640
Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Trader dot Com on Serious x M

1518
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,720
Speaker 1: two seventeen or two oh three series to seventeen x

1519
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:35,120
Speaker 1: M two oh three. In the meantime, tell a friend,

1520
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 1: write a review, Share this on Twitter, shared on Facebook.

1521
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:42,360
Speaker 1: It's pretty good stuff. I'm Doug Gotlib. This is all

1522
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:42,599
Speaker 1: ball