1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,279 Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Start building 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: your website today at squarespace dot com and our offer 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: code stuff at check out and get ten percent off 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: square Space. Build it beautiful. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 5 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and there's 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: Jerry over there. And this is stuff you should know. 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: And this is a I from my perspective of pretty 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: awesome special stuff you should know. It is we uh, 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: we don't normally have guests on the show. No, we 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: almost never do. It's a very select group, that's right, 11 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: but this this maybe the topper. Yeah, what happened last week? 12 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: Well last week, um, I was in Hawaii and I 13 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: got a text from you and it said, Buddy, I'm 14 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: sorry to bother you on vacation, but Bill Gates wants 15 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: to be on Stuff you Should Know. And you went, 16 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: you mean old Billy Gates from elementary school, Billy bath Gate, 17 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: And I said, no, Bill Gates, the entrepreneur, co founder 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: of Microsoft and philanthropist, wants to be on our show. 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: Because his personal communications person got in touch and said, 20 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: I know you don't normally do this, but would you 21 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: consider making an exception for Mr Gates, right, and we 22 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: were like, we really appreciate that you did the research 23 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: to know that we don't normally have people on. That 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: actually was very kind because we've had other people that 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: just assume like, well, you'd want to have this person on, right, Well, 26 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: do you even listen to the show. We don't have 27 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: guests normally. So we're like Bill Gates. Bill Gates like 28 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: played by Anthony Michael Hall once and it made for 29 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: TV movie on T n T Bill Gates and they 30 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: said that Bill Gates, that's right. We said, yes, watch, 31 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: We're going to show up for the interview and it's 32 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: gonna be Anthony Michael Hall. That would blow my mind. 33 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: So we're recording this first portion of the podcast on 34 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: renewal renewable energy, which is a topic very dear to 35 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: Mr Gates's heart, um and something he knows way more 36 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: about than we do. So we're recording this before we 37 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: go talk to him in New York City next week. Um. 38 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: But through the magic of editing, it will be as 39 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: if this is one seamless day, like he's in the 40 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: studio with us, right. So he wanted to talk about 41 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: renewable energy. He's pretty jazzed about it, um, And you 42 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 1: could say I'm pretty jazzed about renewable energy as well. 43 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: It's amazing what's coming down the pike. And there's yes 44 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: coming down the Pike's very important, right because, um, there's 45 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that's going on right now in 46 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: the twenty one century and then coming in the next 47 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: couple of decades that mean that we could really use 48 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: renewable energy sooner than later. One is that, Um, it's 49 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: predicted that energy consumption worldwide is going to increase by 50 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: over two tho levels thirty years from hits. There's a 51 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: lot more energy consumption than we're doing right now, and 52 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: we consume a lot of energy. Yeah, in the world 53 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: as a whole admitted thirty six billion tons of c 54 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: O two and that is forty two percent more than 55 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: we did, forty two percent more than we did in 56 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: nine and the goal is below nine ls. So that's 57 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty that's what I said. Yeah, you 58 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: got it right, A hundred swing as in the wrong direction. Yeah, 59 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: we need to get to and try and achieve. And 60 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: this is not just the US, this is this is 61 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: a world problem exactly. So you've got a two fold. 62 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: You have two conflicting issues here. You have increasing energy demand, 63 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: but you also have a desire to reduce CEO two emissions. 64 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: Right then then if you want to confound things further, 65 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: and this is where um, Bill Gates's passions lie. Um, 66 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: You've got a lot of people out there, something like 67 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: one point three billion people around the world who just 68 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: don't have electricity at all. Yeah, of the world's population 69 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: without electricity at all, sevent of Sub Saharan Africa no electricity. 70 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: Three million people in India alone with no electricity. And 71 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: that's not just oh well, you don't have all the 72 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: mod cons it's you know, you don't have light to 73 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: read by um and educate yourselves, or to refrigerate your 74 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: food and not catch food born diseases. I mean, we 75 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: could name out a hundred reasons why you need electricity 76 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 1: in the exactly. So, you've got a growing energy demand, 77 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: you have a need to reduce c O two emissions, 78 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,239 Speaker 1: and then you have a whole segment of the human 79 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: population that needs access to energy, which means that if 80 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: you can come up with some good renewable technologies, you 81 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: can actually make all these things work together. But the 82 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: key is so if it's renewable, it's automatically basically clean UM. 83 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: And it has to come soon to offset that energy increase, 84 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: energy consumption increase. But because we're factoring the developing low 85 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: income world into this, it needs to also be cheap 86 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: and easily accessible and reliable. Yeah. Until and this is 87 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: something that I'm sure Bill Gates hammers home every time 88 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: he has a chance. If it's gotta it's gotta be viable, 89 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: And if it's not cheaper and better then fossil fuel consumption, 90 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: then no one's ever gonna jump on board in a 91 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: big way. Yeah. And if so from this point on, Chuck, 92 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: because he is coming on as a personal guest to stuff, 93 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: you should know, I think we can just refer to 94 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: him as Bill our friend, Bill. Yeah, Bill our pal. Yeah. 95 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: I can't wait to see a week from now. Uh, 96 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about UM. Who's contributing to 97 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: the problem. China. They're the world's top CEO to admit 98 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: her UM at least of global emissions, with the US 99 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: number two at fifteen point five, followed by the EU 100 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: at nine point I have an Indian at seven point two. 101 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: But everybody agrees that let's there's a problem and let's 102 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: try and reverse it. So they had a summit in 103 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: Paris at the end of this past year where they 104 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: all got together all these nations said you know what, 105 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: let's set some goals here. Uh. In the US for 106 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: their part, said you know what, let's try and cut 107 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: national emissions by up to by the year from two 108 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: five levels. Right. Um. And this is this is this 109 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: whole Paris Accord, basically the Paris Climate Talks that came 110 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: in November. Um, two hundred countries signed on to reduce 111 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: their emissions and um uh it was lauded as a 112 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: huge breakthrough. You got all these people together and all 113 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: these different countries and they hammered out a document that's 114 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: legally binding. But there's also criticism of the document and 115 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: that the emissions reductions are just totally voluntary. There's no 116 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: teeth in the document to say, well, here's the bad 117 00:06:58,400 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: things that happened to you if you don't meet your 118 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: reductions goals. But as criticized as the document the Paris 119 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: Climate Talks were, there's also like a real sunny side 120 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: to the whole thing, and that came in some kind 121 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: of um between the lines, uh message that came out 122 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: of it, and that was developed industrialized nations are ready 123 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: to put down some serious coin into renewable energy technology. Yeah, 124 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: to the tune um of total one billion euros per 125 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: year UM to low income economies to try and build 126 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: them up and give them robust economies which would help 127 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: the world as a whole. Right, So, um, this basically 128 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: is this hundred billion euros a year. It's a sizeable 129 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: chunk and it's it's it represents kind of a funnel 130 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: through developing nations, from developed nations to developing nations. Two 131 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: renewable tech companies. So it's a it's a roundabout investment 132 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: in renewable tech um. And there's a lot of stuff 133 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: that's being it that that just went from pine in 134 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: the sky to oh now you're throwing some real money 135 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: at this. We can make this happen now because some 136 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: stuff brand new, some stuff altering existing technologies. But it's 137 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: all super exciting. Um. Should we talk about some of 138 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: these What the first one I have to say? I 139 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: love if you remember in the State of the Union 140 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: address in January, President Obama said something about turning sunlight 141 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: into liquid fuel. I thought he was having an acid 142 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: flashback up and away in my beautiful But no, what 143 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: he's talking about is a super promising UH process called 144 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: artificial photosynthesis, and it's basically, well, it's exactly what it sounds. 145 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: It's it's building machines that take CEO two emissions and 146 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,599 Speaker 1: that contribute the climate change and using that actually in 147 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: the sunlight to make fuel. Right, So you're using CEO 148 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: two emissions as a raw material for fuel. Unbelievable. So basically, UM, 149 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of UM stumbling blocks so far 150 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: as far as the artificial photosynthesis industry is concerned. But 151 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: they've also had some really good breakthroughs recently. One was 152 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: it came out of the Department of Energy is Berkeley 153 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: Lab where basically they took nano wire arrays they made 154 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: what they call a synthetic forest of nano wires, right, 155 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: and these nano wires collect solar energy and they transfer 156 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: it to bacteria. And there's bacteria mixed in with carbon 157 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: dioxide and water break down the CEO two, so they 158 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: catalyze it into other components. Right. Then another bacteria takes 159 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: those components and build them up into a usable fuel 160 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: like methanol. And all this happened in basically Uh. A 161 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: artificial photosynthetic fuel cell is what is what it is 162 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: using sunlight to break c O two emissions down into 163 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: usable fuel. Amazing, amazing it is. Uh. Something else I 164 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: got going is actually taking water c O two and 165 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: splitting this stuff up into its individual elements and then 166 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 1: essentially recombining them to form c H three oh h, 167 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: which is methanol a k A wood spirits. Uh, but 168 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: you don't want to drink a k A what you 169 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: would get it's like the simplest form of alcohol, and 170 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: what you would get when you would burn would well, 171 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: it's the simplest usable form. Well, yeah, I guess the 172 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: simplest form would be golden grain, right, although you could 173 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: probably put that in an engine. I wonder what would appen. 174 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: Think it would work probably So if you're out of 175 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: fuel in the hills of Georgia, it'll work. It'll do 176 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: the trick. So methanol is the simplest that you can 177 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: you in an engine, and it's already being used on 178 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: China is blending it into gasoline for regular cars at 179 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: about or less right there at the pumps, and their 180 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: taxis and busses are running on up to blend of 181 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: methanol on gasoline. Right, So it's a real thing. It 182 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: definitely is a real thing. And one of the big 183 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: problems with artificial photosynthesis has been that UM, the the 184 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: catalyst to break the CEO two down into constituent components, 185 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: has required something like platinum. Platinum is a very efficient 186 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: catalyst for that process, right, Platinum also cost an ounce 187 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: and if you're coming up with tech that you can 188 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: sell cheap to the developing world, platinum can't be a 189 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: major component of the whole thing, Which is why that 190 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: Berkeley Labs breakthrough using bacteria to catalyze and synthesize this 191 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: stuff is huge because one of the one of the 192 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: bacteria they're using, the synthetic bacteria synthesizing bacteria is E. Coli. 193 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: You can find that anywhere man skill, grab a bunch 194 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: of cilantro, throw it in there. You've got your your 195 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: your synthesizing bacteria. Another big goal is to UM well, 196 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: and this is this is a goal for anyone making 197 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: any sort of renewable energy machinery is to make them 198 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: last super long, because then you can amoritize that cost 199 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: over many many years, thus driving the overall costs down. 200 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 1: UM and so long lasting is a big key. Uh. 201 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: And then you know it's not just about building the 202 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: machine that will actually not in the case of the bacteria, 203 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: that will actually split up in these elements. Um, you 204 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: also need other machines around it. You can't just do 205 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: that and say I throw it in the gas. Um. 206 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: It has to be recombined into something usable. Well yeah, 207 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: and not only that, but it's got to be I mean, 208 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of ancillary equipment that need to be 209 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: used to make this whole thing work. Right, So I 210 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: think the point is that you can't have a huge 211 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: just this huge thing if you're going to try to 212 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: sell to the consumer. Right, No, it has to be 213 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: in the pumped gas. But you could create a huge 214 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: thing if you're going to basically create a fuel refinery 215 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: and artificial photosynthesis fuel refinery, and then you can just 216 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: sell it to gas stations. That would work to Another 217 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: problem here that you point out is they figured out 218 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: how to split uh, water and CEO two in separate processes, 219 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: but not in one unit. Right. That's where that Berkeley 220 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: breakthrough is such a big deal. So I would say, 221 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: just bolt those two machines together and you got one machine. 222 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: Right exactly. But they use two different kinds of bacteria 223 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: to do two different jobs in the same in the 224 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: same machine. It's it's it's amazing. And one of the 225 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: researchers points out that funding for this stuff is kind 226 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 1: of a problem because funding doesn't um you don't get 227 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: the same amount of money every quarter. Uh. Sometimes it's high, 228 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: sometimes it's low, And that's really tough and it's a 229 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: big challenge when you're trying to figure out these things. 230 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: But because you might get a great idea one year 231 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: where you need that dough and you don't have it um, 232 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: So it's just a lot harder to manage when that 233 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: the ebb and flow of funding comes and goes. But 234 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: I think that's where this huge, the big that's where 235 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: this big thing that came out of the Paris Climate 236 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: Talks comes in. That Like, it's not like money is 237 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: a thing in the past, But if you're creating something 238 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: that really has legs as far as creating renewable energy 239 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: is concerned, you're gonna be able to find a capital. Yeah. 240 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: Right now, the U. S Energy Department is renewing a 241 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: seventy five million dollar five year grant to cal techs 242 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: UH Center for artificial photosynthesis. So that's not pocket change. 243 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure it'll take more than that, but some you 244 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: can you can do some research with that. So thumbs 245 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: up to artificial photosynthesis. Thumbs up. We're both a little excited, 246 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: so as is our custom, I think we should take 247 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: a break, agreed, So chuck, Um, there's a there's this 248 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: kind of this big issue right where we have wind 249 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: power and we have solar power, and some places are 250 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: sunnier than others in the United States, California or else 251 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: in the world. Um, and some places are windier than others. Okay, 252 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: So like Kansas can get all the wind it needs 253 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: from wind farms if they wanted to, Probably California. Actually 254 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: I looked up Reno, Nevada in Honolulu about the same 255 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: amount of sunlight every year, did you know that? But 256 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: very different places, very different. But um, so either one 257 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: of them could subsist on solar energy technically, right. But 258 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: you've got a place like Seattle it's not going to 259 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: do very well for solar solar energy, or London not 260 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: gonna do really well with solar energy. But if you're 261 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: talking about out like say a national grid, and say 262 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: the United States, if you step back and look at 263 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: it rather than like Kansas is one region, in California 264 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: is another, and say, actually, in Kansas in California are 265 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: parts of this larger grid. We just have to figure 266 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: out how to get the wind power that's constantly in 267 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: Kansas over to Seattle, or the solar power that's you know, 268 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: in Reno over to Boston. How do you do that? 269 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: And they figured out all they have to do is 270 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: use existing technology, which is just basically stepped up type 271 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: of power line. Yeah, I think this is amazing. There 272 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: was a guy named Alex Alex McDonald from the n 273 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: O A A from Noah, that's right, and he kind 274 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: of realized one day, Hey, the wind is always blowing somewhere, 275 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: like we've got the wind, um, we got all these 276 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: power lines. Why don't we do this. Let's think of 277 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: things in a different way, and let's think of the 278 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: US as one big, all encompassing, interconnected grid, which it 279 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: is is, but we kind of don't think of it 280 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: that way. No, he did exactly. He said, it's all connected, 281 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: so why don't we do this, Let's switch over these 282 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: power lines to direct current lines, which Edison apparently was right. 283 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: So they suffer a lot less loss. Um. I looked 284 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: up supposedly from power station to customer, there's about an 285 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: eight to loss using current a C using what we 286 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 1: have going now, and I believe if you switch over 287 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: to the d c UH it would cut that in 288 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: about half, not too bad. And beyond that, that means 289 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: that you could transport electricity farther than you can now, 290 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: which means you can look at a regional national grid. 291 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: Is is something whole right, Um, But you also can 292 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: take if you can connect these things better. If you 293 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: can connect these regional grids into a comprehensive national grid, 294 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: you can shuffle um wind power from one region of 295 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 1: the country to another, solar power from one region of 296 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: the country to another. Yeah. So what they did was 297 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: they made this really cool computer model, and they said, 298 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: let's figure this out. Let's divide the United States up 299 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: into a hundred and fifty two thousand squares. All of 300 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: these will are connected already, and let's input wind data 301 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: from a couple of years two thousand six to two 302 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: thousand eight nationally just to see where we're at. Let's 303 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: see where the wind's blowing, Let's see where these grids are, 304 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: and let's figure out demand where you need it most, 305 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: less windy places obviously, uh, less sunny places maybe, and 306 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: let's figure out what's the smartest way to lay this 307 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: out and where the best places to invest in building 308 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: these massive wind farms. Right. And they also were extremely 309 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: cautious in um their inputs into this model. Right. They 310 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: excluded national parks and mountain slopes where you can't put 311 00:18:55,359 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: UM windmills or solar arras UM. They included uh, anticipated 312 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: electrical demands in the future UM. And they basically used 313 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: all of the low end figures they could find. And 314 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: even with those low end figures, Chuck using these uh 315 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: these DC power lines and putting new windmill and solar 316 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: array outfits around the country in the right places, they 317 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: came up with the idea that we could cut c 318 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: O two emissions from power plants in the United States 319 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: by of those by that's insane, which is the goal 320 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: that we want less. And again they point out, we 321 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: were really cautious in our projections here. So this is 322 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: the low end, this is the least we could do 323 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,959 Speaker 1: by doing this, and this is using technology that's all 324 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: available right now. Yeah, you point out the one big 325 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: caveat is that if electric cars really take off, like, um, 326 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people hope they will. That um, they're 327 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: gonna have to ramp up production because that they'll just 328 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: be using a lot more power. Yeah, and they also 329 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: said they in the United States, it's not necessarily a 330 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: problem with um even finances or certainly not technology that 331 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: It usually just political will, like say, one part of 332 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: the country doesn't want to depend on another for its 333 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: power for some weird reason. I could totally see some 334 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: Georgia senator being like, we're not going to depend on 335 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: Kansas for our wind our prest I could see that too. 336 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: I could totally see it. But if you're taking this 337 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: this concept of the high voltage grid right, uh, and 338 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: in creating it from scratch in an area in the 339 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: developing world that doesn't have a grid to speak of, yeah, 340 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: they could really benefit exactly. Just build it, build it there, 341 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: and that's just the way it is. Yeah, it's super 342 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: I'm hyped about that one. That that one is. Which 343 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: one is your favorite so far? Well, that one so far, 344 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: This next one is neat, but it's uh, I just 345 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: can't even wrap my brain around you know what photo 346 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: voltae paint. Yeah, basically instead of a solar panel. How 347 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,959 Speaker 1: about solar paint, Jack, how about painting the painting your 348 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 1: roof your roof with paint or with shingles that are 349 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: made from this stuff, which they already have, but they're 350 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: clumsy and cumbersome. This stuff. If you're using photovoltaic paint, 351 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: you're using paint that's mixed with um colloidial quantum dots 352 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: or some sort of nanoparticle, and there there are different 353 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: types of nanoparticles that create an electrical charge when exposed 354 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: to sunlight. Right, Well, if you have paint that's got 355 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: a bunch of these mixed in with it, and you 356 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: have a way to jack your house's power lines into 357 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: said paint, you can generate electricity just from painting your house. 358 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: And it's super flexible, it's easily transported, which is a 359 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: big deal. And if they can get costs down, which 360 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: it looks like they're starting to do um and get 361 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: efficiency up. I think the record right now is somewhere 362 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: around eight percent efficiency. So eight percent of the solar 363 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: power that that hits these things is converted into electricity. Yeah, 364 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: still not enough, but it's it's substantial and it's growing. 365 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: But if you can get these things up. This could 366 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: be extremely helpful for not just people in developing countries, 367 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: people in remote areas. Like, if you want to live 368 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: off the grid, just paint your house with this stuff. Yeah, 369 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: the whole side of your home, the roof of your home. 370 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: You could you could paint your cell phone in theory, 371 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: you can paint your car, paint your dog. How are 372 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: your dog? Don't paint your dog? I probably shouldn't paint. 373 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: This one is a bit mind blowing and it seems 374 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: slightly more far fetched as far as making it the 375 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: realistic way to go. Well, that's the thing. They found 376 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 1: that it works. But can you make it like big 377 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: and widespread and mass produced, right? I think I think so? 378 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: And um so using colloial quantum dots. I'm not quite 379 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: sure how handy those are, how easy to find those are. 380 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: There's another group UM that's working on making plastic ones 381 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: not a bad idea plastic solar cells, but like nanoparticles 382 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: made out of plastic that are that react to solar 383 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: energy and create electricity. Um and as we know, we 384 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: love to mass produce things as plastic and we can 385 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: do it cheaply, so that could definitely have a huge 386 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: impact on it. Once you start making something out of plastic, 387 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: that automatically means it's available for cheap. Good point, we're 388 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: masters of plastic. That's I think the world needs a 389 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: T shirt that says that masters a plastic. It's a 390 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: good band name opening up for cloydal Quantum Dots nice, 391 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: not bad. You got anything else on that? Uh? No, 392 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 1: I guess yeah. I think the high voltage power lines 393 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: are my favorite so far. Yeah, I'm still going with that. 394 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: UM And here's one thing that I know. We're going 395 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: to talk with Bill about our friend Bill because his 396 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: people that we were talking to said Bill gets really 397 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: excited about batteries and the future of batteries. UM, And 398 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: I think everyone in Renewable Inner G's excited about batteries 399 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: because batteries are awesome and they can they can do 400 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: a lot of things. They could potentially solve one of 401 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: the big problems that if we don't get those power 402 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: lines hooked up, you could at least generate a bunch 403 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: of wind and store them in a huge battery array 404 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: for future use. UM or a solar field and store 405 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: that in batteries. Right, So theoretically you could do all 406 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: this now, but the problem is that the costs are 407 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: so monumental in creating batteries that can that are big 408 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: enough to back up a power grid that you are 409 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: actually um in some cases, doubling or tripling the cost 410 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: of electricity. UM. And Bill Gates actually wrote, like this 411 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 1: guy's no shlub. He wrote a paper on energy bills. 412 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: He's no slove. I don't know if you know this 413 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: or not, but he wrote a paper on energy innovation. 414 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: And he points out that so if if batteries double 415 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: or triple the cost of electricity, if you somehow figured 416 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: out a way to generate electricity for free, it would 417 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: still cost two to three times what it does now 418 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: if you're backing up the grid with the battery, which 419 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: to him, into a lot of other observers says, we 420 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: need a better battery. And again, one alternative to that 421 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 1: is to get around the idea of batteries at all 422 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 1: by creating that high voltage power grids that can spread 423 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: wind and solar energy throughout an entire nation. But just 424 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: like the consumer level, UM, I know that Mr Elon 425 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: Musk and other really smart people are trying to develop 426 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: these batteries that can just do a better job for 427 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: your home solar setup, uh, because that there's so long 428 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: way to go even you know now. But yeah, but 429 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: if you can create a battery that that can store 430 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: wind power solar power, then you don't have to have 431 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: a fossil fuel UM plant to back up the solar 432 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: wind power for cloudy days or at night or days 433 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: when the wind just won't blow exactly no matter how 434 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: hard you wish the days. Uh. So I believe musks is, uh, 435 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: we're not really covering that. But weren't his uh lithium 436 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: ion base the big announcement, Yeah, recently. Yeah, what's it 437 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: called the Tesla Wall, the power wall, Tesla power Wall. So, yeah, 438 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: they're lithium ion batteries that like you can um charge 439 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: while you're hooked up to the grid or whatever, or 440 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: if you you got solar whatever you're backing up your 441 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: homes electricity. And I think each each battery lasts for 442 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: eight hours. The point is they're huge, and they're expensive, 443 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: and if you're extrapolating batteries onto helping the developing economies 444 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,959 Speaker 1: of the world, um, you need to have cheap and 445 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: small and portable, right, um. And there's a lot of this. 446 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: The idea of coming up with a better battery is 447 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: essentially the holy grail as far as renewable energy goesblems. 448 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: It underpins almost every renewable energy project. And that you, 449 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: wind and solar are ephemeral. They don't happen all the time, 450 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: so you need to find a way to store the 451 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: excess m ounce that come to you when it is 452 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: sunny and when the wind is blowing. So batteries are 453 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: extremely important and there's a lot of people working on 454 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: them right now. Yeah, the one that is super promising 455 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: um that we're covering here. It's called the flow battery. 456 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,199 Speaker 1: And forget what you thought about your mom and dad's 457 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: and your grandpa's batteries. Just throw them, throw them in 458 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: the in the trash. Well, don't do that, I think, 459 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: throw in the fire. No, no, no, I definitely don't 460 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: do that, shoot it into space. But the flow battery, 461 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: my friend, is where it's at I think as far 462 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: as the future is concerned. So well, there's many different 463 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: versions of flow batteries. There's actually one that UM I 464 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: saw as brand new that uses lithium ion technology along 465 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: with the flow system, which we're gonna talk about in 466 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: a second. The one that's the lithium ion can actually 467 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: store that. The combo can actually store ten times what 468 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: a regular flow battery can, which is great. The downside is, 469 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: there's always a downside, UH is it's power delivery is 470 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: ten thousand times slower than conventional flow battery. That takes 471 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: a while. The charge of phones. It's like, we got 472 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: lots of power stored. They're like, uh, what's the bad news. Um, 473 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: it's ten thousand times slower than what you're used to. 474 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: But UM, once you break down that the standard UH 475 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: flow battery, it's pretty ingenious. So UM, with a with 476 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: a flow battery, you have UM. You have two receiving 477 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: tanks and two holding tanks, right, and as this uh, 478 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: the liquid inside, the fluid inside is an electrolyte fluid, right, 479 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,959 Speaker 1: So basically gatorade, it's UM. It's it's a fluid that 480 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: contains an electrical charge, and as it flows from receiving 481 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: tank to holding tank, it actually creates a charge where 482 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: it transmits this charge and UM charges itself, right or 483 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: powers whatever you want. The cool thing about flow batteries 484 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: are well, one of the we should say one of 485 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: the drawbacks is that they're big. They need to be big. 486 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: I think about the smallest you could you could um 487 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: come up with if this, say, the size of an aquarium. Yeah. 488 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: Well it's also an advantage because they can be as 489 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: big as you want. That is an advantage. Create one 490 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: literally the size of a football stadium if you want, 491 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: if you yeah, if you have enough gatorade, that could 492 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: store all the energy of an entire solar field. So so, 493 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: And the great thing about a flow battery is it 494 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: will store this charge indefinitely like this the electro light 495 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: is the fluid is never gonna lose its charge permanently. 496 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: It can always be recharged by moving it from receiving 497 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: tank to holding tank. Yeah. And I think the biggest 498 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: advantages it's instantly recharged when you replace that fluid. There's 499 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: I don't think there's even any lag time. It's just boom, 500 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: it's going again, So Chuck, what we've been talking about 501 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: so far as as far as batteries are concerned, is 502 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: a way to store electricity. But there's actually other stuff 503 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: you can store to to generate electricity from. And heats 504 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: a big one, yeah, because we've talked again and again 505 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: about how sort of archaic and weird it is that 506 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: we still create heat to spend a turbine to create 507 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: steam to spin a turbine, just like we did in 508 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: the Industrial Revolution. As fancy as you want to get 509 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: using nuclear clear rod, you're still generating steam to spin 510 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: a turbine. That's the whole point, that's the end result, right. 511 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: I love it. And if you're if that floats your boat, 512 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: if that made your eyes just pop out of your head, 513 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: go listen to our electricity episode, which is one of 514 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: my all time favorites. Yeah, we did one on nuclear 515 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: power to right, we did after Fukushima, So, uh, you 516 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: can actually store that heat, correct in the future. Now, 517 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: even there's condensing solar um power plants, then they take 518 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: the heat from the sun, so they're not storing the energy. 519 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: There's no way they're not storing the energy. I looked 520 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: and and it seemed like everybody was just talking about 521 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: the heat. But they also have to store the solar 522 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: energy as well. What a waste, right, So at the 523 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: very least they store the heat, and they usually store 524 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: it as molten salt. But they found out that if 525 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: you use a super critical fluid, which is a fluid 526 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: that's heated to a point where it basically no longer 527 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: recognizes the distinction between liquid or gaseous form, and it 528 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: can do all sorts of crazy stuff. Um, if you 529 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: take a supercritical fluid, you can take the heat, the 530 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: thermal heat from the sun and store that heat in 531 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: there and then use it later on by releasing that 532 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: heat to heat water and generate steam to spin a turbine. 533 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: Also another great band name, spin a turbine. No supercritical fluid. 534 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: I agree. I think if you want to name your band, 535 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: just look into renewable energy, as they're like cool names 536 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: all over the place, or just call your band Bill Gates, 537 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: our pal Bill. Not bad. Uh, you got anything else 538 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: for now? No? I mean I could sit here and 539 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: talk about this stuff forever, but let's talk to Bill 540 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: Gates about it instead. Great idea, and Chuck, we will 541 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: do that right for this break. Okay, everyone, we are back. 542 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: We are in a hotel room in New York City 543 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: with Mr Bill Gates, which is a little unusual for us, 544 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: to say the least. It's an unusual Monday, for sure. 545 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: It is. His folks reached out and asked if we 546 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: would make an exception about having a guest on the show, 547 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: and we thought about it for about point one seconds 548 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: in staid of course, we'd love to have Bill Gates 549 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: on the show, So thank you, sir for being here. 550 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: And we already recorded the first part of the show 551 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: on renewable energy UM, specifically a few different technologies UM 552 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: in the future that are pretty exciting, and so I 553 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: think Josh wanted to go ahead and kick it off 554 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: with a relevant question. So we got kind of, you know, 555 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: into the nuts and bolts of some of the tech. 556 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: But one of the things we didn't cover and we 557 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: wanted to hear from use what are some of the 558 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: obstacles that this renewable tech that's just right there on 559 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: the horizon. What's keeping them from being deployed now, especially 560 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: in the developing world. Well, when we think about energy, uh, 561 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,239 Speaker 1: one of the key things is reliability. If you just 562 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: have energy when the wind blows, when the sunshine, that's 563 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: not very helpful. You know, if somebody's freezing in their 564 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: apartment on a winter night, they need energy. If you're 565 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: gonna build a factory, say to build cars that, because 566 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: of your huge capital cost, needs to run twenty four 567 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: hours a day, and so it's got to have reliable energy. 568 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: And so the market isn't just for energy. The market 569 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: is for totally reliable energy. Unfortunately, a lot of the 570 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: breakthroughs we've had UH wind and sun, we don't have 571 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: those directly generate electricity, and storing electricity is very, very hard. 572 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: All the batteries in the world today would not store 573 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: every laptop, every car, everything, would not store an hour's 574 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: worth of global energy use. And batteries haven't improved much 575 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: in the last hundred years. They're less than three times 576 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: better than the battery that Edison, if he were revived, 577 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,879 Speaker 1: would recognize, which is a lead chemistry battery. It's really 578 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: the lithium ion is has given us an improvement. But 579 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: in order to really work for the grid, you need 580 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: a factor of ten, which UH. Anyway, it's very tough 581 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: to make that work. And so if we we need 582 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: to pursue breakthrough paths that don't assume a storage miracle, 583 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: UH like if you could take the sun directly and 584 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: make liquid fuels just say gasoline, but any hydrocarbon UH 585 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: that's liquid that's easy to store. You put it in 586 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: a big metal tank, you put it in a pipe, UH. 587 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: And the whole infrastructure is geared towards liquid. The transport 588 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: UH infrastructure is geared towards liquid hydrocarbons, and so if 589 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: you could possibly do that, it would have a big advantage. 590 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: And we we talked about artificial photosynthesis technology and it 591 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: doesn't quite promising. Yeah, and well, actually that brings up 592 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 1: something that We've done quite a few podcasts on different 593 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,399 Speaker 1: technologies in the future for renewable energy, and I feel 594 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: like every time we cover one, we both end up 595 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: thinking why this is this is the one, This is fantastic. 596 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: And I guess my question is, while different going down 597 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: different paths is great for innovation, when should people start 598 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: focusing on all? Right, now, this is the one that 599 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: we should put our efforts into. Well, the capitalism is 600 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: very good at this. UH. At the start of the 601 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: auto industry, if you'd really handy hap things and looked 602 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: at the steam cars, UH, the electric car and the 603 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: internal combustion engine, you probably have guessed set the internal 604 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: combustion would not succeed. The mechanics of all that explosion 605 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: and those metal parts fatiguing, and it just seems so 606 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: dangerous and so hard to get right. And the thing 607 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: that made it win is the energy density of gasoline. 608 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: Gasoline UH, one of my favorite books and this is 609 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: called physics for future presidents. That has some basic things 610 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 1: that that should be probably known. Gasoline is ten times 611 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: as energy dens as are best batteries are, so you're 612 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: you know, when you switch from a gasoline car to 613 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 1: an electric car, that's why your range goes down a lot. 614 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,760 Speaker 1: And yet the weight of those batteries is way more 615 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: than your cat seleme tank was before. So Uh, Henry 616 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: Ford happened to bat on internal combustion. A few other 617 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: people that on those others, and they had companies that 618 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: were pricing their products and talking about the maintainability of 619 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: their products. And over time, Uh, the interim commussion went 620 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 1: out so dramatically that uh, it's hard to even remember 621 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 1: that those things were there. All you go to the 622 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: right newseum, those are still there. This energy thing will 623 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,280 Speaker 1: be the same way. I mean, you know, high wind 624 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: sounds like the jet stream. You know, it sounds like 625 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: a crazy idea. The solar fuels are what uh you're calling, 626 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: um synthetic photosynthesis. If it doesn't want people say, well, 627 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,439 Speaker 1: of course that was silly. And if it does where 628 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: people say, well, of course that was that was brilliant. 629 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: When nuclear energy came along, Uh. There was a quote 630 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: from the head of the Atomic Energy Commission that electricity 631 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: will be too cheap to meet now. Unfortunately he underestimated 632 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: the complexities of radiation containment, all of the safety things, 633 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: which in my view means that we need a whole 634 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: new generation of reactors whose safety characteristics are dramatically better 635 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: and different than what we make today. Is called third generation. 636 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: We need this fourth generation that that will be like that. 637 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 1: So I think we need to go down about a 638 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: dozen different paths. Uh. And even one that um uh 639 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: it's still worth exploring, is called carbon capture and sequestration. 640 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: So we're still during the hydrocarbon but uh, with a 641 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,800 Speaker 1: little bit of extra chemistry, you take that fluid gas 642 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: which is about twelve c O two and you converted 643 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: to liquids, and then of course you have to have 644 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: to find some long term storage and you use that 645 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: as a feedstock for artificial photosynthesis. I believe you can, 646 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,359 Speaker 1: or they're working on it now right. Greenhouses Uh have 647 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 1: enhanced c O two, so plants love c O two. Uh. 648 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: In fact, plants had a hard time CEO two got 649 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: down to about a hundred and seventy parts per million, 650 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: and plants you even saw plant chemistry change and uh, 651 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: because that's very tough. That's when a photo senter the 652 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: C four chemistry uh evolved, which may's corn happens to use. 653 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: Right now, Now we're up at four ppm, but if 654 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: you in a greenhouse, if you run it up to 655 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:43,720 Speaker 1: two two thousand ppm, then the plants, actually some plants 656 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: actually go quite a bit faster. Um. We've we've done 657 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: some episodes before. We did one specifically on how the 658 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 1: automobile became the dominant form of transportation in the US, right, 659 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: And from what I remember, it seemed like the answer 660 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: was there was a lot of lobbying behind it, and 661 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: government gotten evolved in now we all drive cars, right, 662 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: gasoline powered cars. What's the role of government today? And 663 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: getting renewables out there, especially in developing countries. Yeah, New 664 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: York City actually couldn't figure out how they were going 665 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 1: to deal with horse manure, and so, you know, cars 666 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: had to compete with horses, but horses did have some 667 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,720 Speaker 1: serious drawbacks. You know, later we figured out that the uh, 668 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: nitrous ox sides and things coming out of the tailpipe 669 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: of the car, we're a problem. But at the time 670 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 1: it was a dramatic improvement of what came out of 671 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: the previous tailpipe renewable energy. When you get to say India, 672 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:48,359 Speaker 1: which is paradigmatic because they still are not giving their 673 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: citizens even a tenth of the electricity per person that 674 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,720 Speaker 1: we provide. So the idea of lights at night, or 675 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 1: refrigerating food or cooking with a skull that doesn't pollute 676 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 1: your lungs, most of Indians don't have that, so on 677 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: behalf of their citizens. They want to move to have 678 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: what we have, which is an energy intense lifestyle. And 679 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,320 Speaker 1: if all Indians got everything we have, they want to 680 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,840 Speaker 1: admitted as much as many much greenhouse gas per person 681 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: as we have until well after the end of this century. 682 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 1: So in a certain just a sense that their electrifying 683 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: their society will save lives and it's not a bad thing. 684 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:38,359 Speaker 1: And yet the world UH wants them to do it 685 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 1: in a with a constraint that we didn't have, which 686 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: is to not admit the greenhouse gases. So if we 687 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: can do the invention, we can fund the R and 688 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: D and maybe even the first few pilot plants to 689 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 1: get the economies of scale and learning cur benefits. UH. 690 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,840 Speaker 1: Then if we can offer to them a form of 691 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 1: electrification that's nonpollut rooting. Then you get the best of 692 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: both worlds. If you can't do that, Uh, then they 693 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: have a dilemma, which is the imperative of getting their 694 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 1: citizens what we already have versus this this global problem. 695 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,360 Speaker 1: And so that's why we didn't have innovation. I wouldn't 696 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 1: be very optimistic that the climate change problem would get solved. 697 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: In fact, some people think it's easy to solve. Uh, 698 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: and that you know that could hold his back from 699 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:33,320 Speaker 1: making these long term investments. Uh. One thing we often 700 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: hear from listeners when we podcasts and stuff like this is, uh, 701 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: what can I do just in my home? And I 702 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: know that Uh, you made a point about just the 703 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 1: the see the lightbulbs that people are using now, and 704 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: little differences like that can help. But in a bigger picture, 705 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 1: where does your average Joe fit in? Well, the United 706 00:42:55,400 --> 00:43:00,320 Speaker 1: States uses twice as much energy per person as other 707 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,680 Speaker 1: rich countries do, so Europe and Japan would be less 708 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: than half of US. Canada's a lot like US, uh, 709 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: And it's partly the way we built up our infrastructure. 710 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: We live further away from our work. Generally, we have 711 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,760 Speaker 1: more lighting around our house, more air conditioning. My favorite 712 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: energy author, um who lives up in Canada, Boss lots Meal. 713 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 1: When he shows a picture of what how doses look 714 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: like in the fifties where there were many lights on 715 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: at night, and what they look like now. You know, 716 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 1: he looks at how big American cars are, so he 717 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:41,400 Speaker 1: would say, Hey, the US, for a lot of reasons, UH, 718 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: should be more reasonable about resource usage. That alone is 719 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,799 Speaker 1: not going to solve climate change. Uh. You know, the 720 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: idea of using as little as you can, it's it's smart, 721 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 1: it's good discipline, it's good for the world. It allows 722 00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 1: those same resources to be used by other people. And remember, 723 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,720 Speaker 1: energy is still causing local pollution coal plants. The understanding 724 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: of what particulate does to health and how that's about 725 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,440 Speaker 1: for our health that continues to increase. And so cutting 726 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: down on energy usage is not just a good thing 727 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 1: for globe warm and cutting down on water usage and 728 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: it makes that water available for the ecosystem, for farming 729 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 1: and lots of things. So being smart about hey, how 730 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: much energy do we use? H? And why do we 731 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: use so much? And did we pay attention to that 732 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:39,480 Speaker 1: funny label that Thank goodness, the government now requires uh, 733 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: that appliances have energy usage labeling because people were uh 734 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,839 Speaker 1: wasting a lot of money buying a cheap refrigerator who 735 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,640 Speaker 1: would increase their electricity build dramatically over time. We still 736 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,839 Speaker 1: have that in terms of how we build houses that 737 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,800 Speaker 1: it would be worth putting more into the original building 738 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 1: to have less heat leak eats in the in the 739 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 1: winter or cooling benefits in the summer. Uh, we really 740 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,600 Speaker 1: should put more into that capital expense, which is easiest 741 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 1: when you do the initial build instead of the retrofit. 742 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: But even the retrofit is sometimes we're doing. So there 743 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,600 Speaker 1: is still a role for the average person in you know, 744 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 1: fighting climate change, I guess, or being responsible with energy 745 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 1: users beyond forming like a human chain blocking off a 746 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,279 Speaker 1: fossil fuel power plan or something. Well we're all complicit 747 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: in using fossil fuels today. Um and so you know 748 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,960 Speaker 1: you it. If there was a choice of going cold Turkey, 749 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,200 Speaker 1: I don't think most people would choose that. The way 750 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,399 Speaker 1: people can contribute, they can set examples through their own 751 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 1: use their voice about hey, we care about this issue 752 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,760 Speaker 1: and we want these long term investments to be made. 753 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,400 Speaker 1: That is super important. And if they can go to 754 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,440 Speaker 1: Africa and see what it's like to live without energy. Uh. 755 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,400 Speaker 1: Once you visit, that will become part of your value 756 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: system to think how can we treat those lives as 757 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:18,280 Speaker 1: having equal value, whether that's health or energy or all 758 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: the things that that that we take for granted. So, um, 759 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,719 Speaker 1: we got one last question. Yeah, just on a personal note. 760 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 1: I was kind of wondering. I was. I was thinking 761 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 1: the other day, I'm in my mid forties now and 762 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,359 Speaker 1: have my first baby, and I think that's the point, um, 763 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,360 Speaker 1: at least in my life where I start sort of 764 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,560 Speaker 1: looking at where I am and as I speed toward 765 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,440 Speaker 1: the grave, and what have I done with my life? 766 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,680 Speaker 1: And I was wondering, what was there a defining moment 767 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:45,560 Speaker 1: in your life where you kind of stopped and said, 768 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,359 Speaker 1: I'm Bill Gates, I've accomplished quite a bit and now 769 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to focus on the future of the world. 770 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,719 Speaker 1: And did having kids have something to do with that 771 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,279 Speaker 1: or what? Well, it's what was that for you? Well, 772 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: I've been super lucky and that my early exposure to 773 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:05,239 Speaker 1: computers and lots of great people uh around that. So 774 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: the building microsoft to mean fanatical about that, Uh, you know, 775 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 1: kept me busy and very happy. My twenties thirties. Then 776 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,479 Speaker 1: in my forties, UH, I had gotten married at thirty eight, 777 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,359 Speaker 1: my first child was born. When I was forty one, 778 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,839 Speaker 1: I started to gain more balance UH, and I knew 779 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:31,080 Speaker 1: that somebody younger than me UH should eventually take over Microsoft, 780 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,160 Speaker 1: So I started broadening my learning. I've always liked science, 781 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,000 Speaker 1: but during the Microsoft days, I couldn't keep track of 782 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,680 Speaker 1: the latest in math or biology because I was a 783 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:44,320 Speaker 1: fanatic about software. And I didn't believe in vacations. And 784 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 1: that's why I even waited to UH start a family, 785 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: because I knew I wouldn't UH have have enough time 786 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:56,680 Speaker 1: for it. So my forties I broadened my horizons a bit. UH. 787 00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:02,359 Speaker 1: And then UH, when I was UH forty five was 788 00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,799 Speaker 1: when Malinda and I UH started putting money in the 789 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:10,920 Speaker 1: foundation and saying, Okay, that would be the next career. 790 00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 1: And in the same way that I'd had two wonderful 791 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 1: partners in Microsoft, Paul Allen in the early days and 792 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 1: then Steve Bomber's we built it to be a large company, 793 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,719 Speaker 1: Melinda would be UH an even more equal partner. And 794 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,880 Speaker 1: this third UH partnership, which was making the foundation go. 795 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,759 Speaker 1: And so that's been a learning journey. Every year we 796 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: get smarter about Okay, what should the foundation do bringing 797 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,040 Speaker 1: in great people to help us there? Uh. But it 798 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:48,400 Speaker 1: it was traveling to Africa. It was learning that, um, 799 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,759 Speaker 1: you know, all these resources really should go back to 800 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: society in some way. Meeting Melinda, Uh, some of the 801 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,239 Speaker 1: things Warren Buffett talked about, we're leaving lots of money 802 00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,600 Speaker 1: to your kids. It's not a good thing. Uh. I'd 803 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,480 Speaker 1: particularly highlight Melinda and the time we spent in Africa 804 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: sort of opening my eyes that hey, there were things 805 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,200 Speaker 1: that could have a dramatic effect. Uh if we were 806 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,680 Speaker 1: smart about getting back the money the right way. Well, 807 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 1: Bill Gates, thank you very much for being on stuff 808 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,600 Speaker 1: you should know much appreciated and honor. Thank you for 809 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,880 Speaker 1: talking with us. Hey, I'm honored to be your first guest. 810 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:27,399 Speaker 1: Thanks you. Um can we get a picture? Wow, that's 811 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,840 Speaker 1: gonna be tough to time. Holy cow. Yeah what a guy. Yeah, 812 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,200 Speaker 1: I was. I was nervous. Are you were fine? Do 813 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,399 Speaker 1: you think you liked me? I think he loved you. 814 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:38,400 Speaker 1: Do you think would you let you sit on his 815 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,080 Speaker 1: lap and stroke your beard? That's a clear sign that 816 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:42,759 Speaker 1: he was fond of Well. I thought he might get 817 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,560 Speaker 1: mad when I told him he had spinach and his teeth, 818 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,080 Speaker 1: but he seemed to take that well, he took it 819 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,360 Speaker 1: in stride. That was all off, Mike. That's behind the 820 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,160 Speaker 1: SCENESECT coming soon. No, that was that was amazing And 821 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,279 Speaker 1: thanks to them for reaching out and yeah, big thanks, Yeah, 822 00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:00,000 Speaker 1: best of luck obviously that his efforts in the future. Yeah, 823 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,400 Speaker 1: go renewable energy. Rah. If you want to get in 824 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,160 Speaker 1: touch with us, we'd love to hear from you. You 825 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,680 Speaker 1: can tweet to us at s y s K podcast. 826 00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,200 Speaker 1: You can join us on Facebook dot com, slash Stuff 827 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:11,960 Speaker 1: you Should Know. You can send us an email to 828 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,759 Speaker 1: Stuff podcast at how stuff Works dot com and has 829 00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,440 Speaker 1: always joined us at our home on the web, but 830 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:24,239 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know dot com For more on this 831 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,919 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works 832 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:34,440 Speaker 1: dot com.