Speaker 1: Today's quote is from an article by Kenzie Cooper, writer
Speaker 1: in an online magazine called Eon A E O N
Speaker 1: and the quote is Proposals about the origins of language abound,
Speaker 1: and it's no wonder. Language is a marvel, our most
Speaker 1: distinctive capacity. A few slight movements of tongue, teeth and lips,
Speaker 1: and I can give you a new idea, whisk you
Speaker 1: somewhere else, or give you goose bumps. Any thought a
Speaker 1: human can think, it would seem can be shared on
Speaker 1: a puff of air. Welcome to Permission to Speak, the
Speaker 1: podcast about how we talk and how we get ourselves
Speaker 1: heard with me samarve Hi. Guys, this is part two
Speaker 1: of the mail Bag episode, and this when we get
Speaker 1: into a lot of specific questions around vocal fry breathing,
Speaker 1: especially during say, times of anxiety. What tone really means,
Speaker 1: listeners worrying about sounding too nasal and um some big
Speaker 1: ideas around speaking without apologizing for taking up time and space,
Speaker 1: which you know, I think it is actually the heart
Speaker 1: of like ninety percent of our vocal drama, as well
Speaker 1: as a you know, sister idea of what I called
Speaker 1: in this episode getting voice shamed, which I think is
Speaker 1: so insidious that most of us don't quite notice it
Speaker 1: or or can't quite put our finger on it when
Speaker 1: it's happening. And we also answer a question about why
Speaker 1: specifically we end every episode of Permission to Speak by
Speaker 1: making sure to celebrate the voice of someone whom I
Speaker 1: guest admires. This was a delightful conversation, and I can't
Speaker 1: wait for you to hear it and give me feedback.
Speaker 1: This is mail Bag Part two. Here's a question from
Speaker 1: one of our listeners. I'm doing a lot of phone
Speaker 1: banking for the upcoming election, and I feel like I
Speaker 1: come off too formal or cheesy. I want to put
Speaker 1: people at ease, but also get my point across quickly.
Speaker 1: Do you have any tips? Phone banking is so hard.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, cold calling anybody? So hard? Um.
Speaker 1: My biggest tip is really make it about them, because
Speaker 1: it sounds like from what this person's the way that
Speaker 1: they're framing the question, that's they're they're thinking about themselves. Uh,
Speaker 1: totally understandable, but really really think about what am I
Speaker 1: trying to How am I trying to make the other
Speaker 1: person feel it's really good? Uh? Can we talk about
Speaker 1: people just getting a little nasily actors, but also just
Speaker 1: speaking in general. Um, there's a specific question that someone's
Speaker 1: an actor from Chicago and they speak a bit nasily.
Speaker 1: What can I physically do to take myself off out
Speaker 1: of the Chicago Chicago. I wonder if, um, they've been
Speaker 1: getting feedback about that, or if they're hearing it in
Speaker 1: their own head. Um. I partly ask because I don't
Speaker 1: want I feel like some of it is self consciousness
Speaker 1: that is like misplaced energy. We don't have to actually
Speaker 1: change the way our body sounds. But um, if they're
Speaker 1: getting feedback, if it feels like it's getting in the way, UM,
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is what they mean by nasally.
Speaker 1: But sometimes it's that we're not breathing enough and we're
Speaker 1: not we're not connected enough to our chest resonance. So
Speaker 1: we have these two different ways that sound comes out
Speaker 1: of us. Basically, guys, the way that we make sound
Speaker 1: come from inside our body out is not really our mouth.
Speaker 1: It's that our bones vibrate the space in between our bones,
Speaker 1: which are sort of like cavernous you know, caves vibrate
Speaker 1: the sound waves literally like bounce off of the cave.
Speaker 1: The inner walls of the cave of us and then
Speaker 1: come out through all the parts of us. And if
Speaker 1: you if you put your hand on your chest and
Speaker 1: you talk, you just say like, hi, my name is Samara. Uh,
Speaker 1: you will feel vibrating. And if you put your hands
Speaker 1: in between the two sides of your nose underneath your
Speaker 1: eyes and you talk, HI, my name is Samara, see
Speaker 1: if you vibrate there too. In a dream scenario, although
Speaker 1: we're vibrating everywhere, the two largest chamboos are our mask
Speaker 1: resonance and our chest resonance. Oh. I talked about this
Speaker 1: with Adell because she doesn't like the word mask because
Speaker 1: it sounds like we're hiding ourselves, right whatever our face resonance. Um.
Speaker 1: But the idea is, and especially if you're feeling nasily,
Speaker 1: this is something sometimes what the thing is Ideally we've
Speaker 1: got both going on equally or in a nice blend,
Speaker 1: whatever doesn't. Actually, if we're all chest resonance and nothing
Speaker 1: is happening, no vibrating is happening in our face, it
Speaker 1: usually gives off a bit of an underwater quality. There's
Speaker 1: like this sort of sense like you have a cold
Speaker 1: and like nothing's coming out up top, so like you're
Speaker 1: just vibrating down here right. Stereotypically this is a male thing,
Speaker 1: but you know, obviously it doesn't matter. It's cultural more
Speaker 1: than it's a biological sex things. But you will feel
Speaker 1: at least a little powerful, but not necessarily present. And
Speaker 1: then the opposite is true for the mask. You know,
Speaker 1: if you're if you're all pingy all the time. Pingy
Speaker 1: is this word that we use to mean this sort
Speaker 1: of like very very present up here a thing. You know,
Speaker 1: you will sound very present, Hello, I am right here,
Speaker 1: I am in your face, I am fran dresser, right,
Speaker 1: but you lose all your power. The rest of your
Speaker 1: body is just not participating in the game that is communicating.
Speaker 1: So in a dream scenario we have both. There's pretty
Speaker 1: easy exercises to do. That has to do with sort
Speaker 1: of like moving around the different parts of those of
Speaker 1: those body parts and actually kind of just trying to
Speaker 1: like breathe sound into their checking and my vibrating now,
Speaker 1: my vibrating now. Um. I really encourage people to like
Speaker 1: search some of those terms on YouTube and see if
Speaker 1: there are voice coaches who actually like lead you through
Speaker 1: those sorts of exercises. But you know, the short answer
Speaker 1: is probably a little bit more chest residents would help
Speaker 1: if you're feeling nasally, and I bet that what's annoying you,
Speaker 1: if it's not annoying other people, is that it's not
Speaker 1: that it's nasal, it's not that has anything to do
Speaker 1: with your nose. It's that you've lost your sense of power.
Speaker 1: You know. Interesting, this is from an American actor. What
Speaker 1: would be the best way to begin learning an RP
Speaker 1: Australian or New Zealand accent? Why is it so hard?
Speaker 1: What's an RP? I was gonna say, I'm actually not
Speaker 1: sure if r P Australian is a thing, although I'd
Speaker 1: be happy to have somebody tell me. RP is this
Speaker 1: term that means received pronunciation. It is shorthand for the
Speaker 1: proper British accent. The American version would be called standard American.
Speaker 1: We don't have RP American received pronunciation American. But RP,
Speaker 1: obviously this is a term received is already kind of
Speaker 1: just this made up thing. It's a way of talking
Speaker 1: about the standard. So like cockney is not right, it's
Speaker 1: talking about the standard. So you know, this came up,
Speaker 1: God knows, this came up a lot in that linguistics
Speaker 1: conversation that I had with Dr Charity Hadley about what
Speaker 1: standard means. It's usually just made up by the richest
Speaker 1: white people you can find um. But as a dialect
Speaker 1: it is useful to learn. I mean, it's useful to
Speaker 1: learn any standards so that you can speak intelligently about
Speaker 1: deviations from the standard. That's not about putting good or
Speaker 1: bad judgments on it. It's just about saying, like, this
Speaker 1: is a thing, so that then we can talk intelligently
Speaker 1: about when we go step away from the thing. So
Speaker 1: r P is useful of RP is also known as
Speaker 1: the Queen's English or BBC English. Sometimes people say there
Speaker 1: are also different gradations of it, because sometimes OURP refers
Speaker 1: to the hundred years ago version and sometimes it refers
Speaker 1: to more contemporary sound, which is also dialect um. So
Speaker 1: for Australian, I'm not sure what the standard is, but
Speaker 1: I will say that Australian and New Zealand are like
Speaker 1: so hard to learn. I would I'm about to say,
Speaker 1: are the hardest, but I'm going to put them along
Speaker 1: with Irish, and along with South African and Scottish. You know,
Speaker 1: when we're talking about learning accents, we can talk about
Speaker 1: regional accents of English of American English, like the South,
Speaker 1: like Boston, like Gloucester, Glouster, mass um or like uh
Speaker 1: English as a second language. So if we're learning a
Speaker 1: French accent, right, but when we're talking about English as
Speaker 1: a first language in another part of the world, that
Speaker 1: will always have the most rules, the most different sound changes.
Speaker 1: When we're talking about Australian, literally every vowel sound changes
Speaker 1: from American to Australia. So for like having to make
Speaker 1: a cheat sheet of like this sounds which is to
Speaker 1: this sound. The cheat sheet for French is maybe ten
Speaker 1: sounds long. The cheat sheet for Australian is like that's
Speaker 1: just more things for your brain to have to kind
Speaker 1: of like integrate, integrate, integrate over time. It's just much harder.
Speaker 1: I actually did have a question that I didn't put
Speaker 1: on here, and I won't do it because I was
Speaker 1: like it'll blow her mind and be like no. But
Speaker 1: someone did want you to go through the various dialects
Speaker 1: in England and say them all differently rapid fire. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, it's doable, but it requires like prep, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean I like to say I don't come fully
Speaker 1: downloaded like you know in advance. Um with like all
Speaker 1: accents of the world, and there's actually some people who
Speaker 1: have put together some amazing videos. Um. Amy walker Is
Speaker 1: aims for this. If you search on YouTube for sort
Speaker 1: of like trapesing around various parts of the world and
Speaker 1: you know, switching from accent to accent, to accent to accent.
Speaker 1: It is totally something I can do as well, but
Speaker 1: like I do need to actually do my research, do
Speaker 1: my prep, practice it, and then you know, get there, um,
Speaker 1: which is my long way of saying no, not right now. Okay.
Speaker 1: So this is from an American and she's married to
Speaker 1: an english Man. He's often says to her that she's
Speaker 1: speaking too loudly, and I often tell him that he
Speaker 1: speaks too softly. That sounds normal, It sounds like my life.
Speaker 1: These are common stereotypes of loud Americans and the English
Speaker 1: who speak in whispers. How did this come about? To
Speaker 1: English speaking countries speaking at different volumes? That's really cool, listener.
Speaker 1: I mean, the short answer is it's cultural. I think
Speaker 1: that in her case is probably also gendered. You know,
Speaker 1: men don't have to speak up in order to be
Speaker 1: heard dot dot dot permission to speak. I'm man loudly,
Speaker 1: you know, A lot of the times when women tell
Speaker 1: me that they speak to loudly or that they are
Speaker 1: quote unquote too much, it's because they've had to figure
Speaker 1: out how to overcompensate, and it hasn't necessarily worked in
Speaker 1: their favor. But the impulse is I have to push
Speaker 1: through my discomfort in order to be heard. Whether or
Speaker 1: not it works as I say, is you know, debatable
Speaker 1: in different spaces, but the impulse is not something men
Speaker 1: often have to deal with ever. Ever. Um, the British
Speaker 1: American thing cultural, I mean really understated, you know, the
Speaker 1: British thing. That American humor is also really like whad
Speaker 1: broad and that British is so understated and reserved and
Speaker 1: you know, clever by by you know, quiet machinations rather
Speaker 1: than being so broad and over the top. Obviously, those
Speaker 1: are huge generalizations. I think I have very sophisticated humor,
Speaker 1: thank you very much. Um. But you know how delightful
Speaker 1: when you're married to somebody from a different culture, no
Speaker 1: matter what the culture is. I mean, a lot of
Speaker 1: us grew up in households where being loud and speaking
Speaker 1: over each other had really different connotations. Being loud and
Speaker 1: speaking over each other in certain cultures totally normal. That's
Speaker 1: how people talk. That's how we get our point across.
Speaker 1: That what comfortable sounds like, that's when you know people. Well,
Speaker 1: that's what you can do. That's what intimate sounds like.
Speaker 1: And in some cultures speaking over each other is so
Speaker 1: looked down upon that you would never do that with
Speaker 1: the people you love and how dare you? And then
Speaker 1: when those two people grow up and marry each other, Well,
Speaker 1: that's a recipe for fascinating you know, cultural interactions. So
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be this thing about what nation
Speaker 1: you were born in. It's really like, you know, each
Speaker 1: of our idiolects interacting with the other person's idiolect. I
Speaker 1: would actually be interested in a follow up to the
Speaker 1: person that wrote this question, because I'd like you to just,
Speaker 1: for like, for fun, flip it and see how much
Speaker 1: your man misses you after you are not that loud
Speaker 1: American that he fell in love with. Okay, next up.
Speaker 1: I've been teased by my friends that when I meet
Speaker 1: a foreigner speaking English to me, I often respond to
Speaker 1: them in their own accent. That's amazing, even in broken English.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I have become aware of this, but I can't
Speaker 1: seem to stop why is this? Is it psychological? Am
Speaker 1: I trying to get in the same level or trying
Speaker 1: to get them me? I figure they would understand me better,
Speaker 1: But that doesn't actually make sense because they're probably used
Speaker 1: to hearing English spoken. Well, Um, it's so beautiful. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of people have this, and then a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't. I think it has to do with empathy,
Speaker 1: you know, it has to do with mirroring. We're always
Speaker 1: trying to fit in. I mean, truly, this is like
Speaker 1: a subliminal We are not always consciously thinking how are
Speaker 1: the other people in this room sounding? So I should
Speaker 1: sound more like them, and then I'll you know, be
Speaker 1: taken seriously by the it's not conscious. But there are
Speaker 1: rules of conversation in every room that you're in. And
Speaker 1: I'm using the word rules very loosely to me, and like,
Speaker 1: you know, there's stuff for picking up on in order
Speaker 1: to sort of win the conversation, when not meaning that
Speaker 1: other people would lose, but when meaning that like what
Speaker 1: we want to have happen happens, which is often as
Speaker 1: you say, connection. Um, if we're talking to somebody who
Speaker 1: sounds different from us, we may very well all of
Speaker 1: us or most of us be subtly changing the way
Speaker 1: we sound in order to mirror them. We do it
Speaker 1: with hand gestures as well. You know, we do it
Speaker 1: with body language. We do it with facial gestures. Uh.
Speaker 1: It sounds like the listener is just like doing it
Speaker 1: in a more extreme way, so they've become aware of it, right,
Speaker 1: But it's something a lot of us do. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's what a part of why I like to say
Speaker 1: that our idiolect is not is all the stuff we
Speaker 1: talked about before, but also like who you dated one
Speaker 1: time for six months, you know, like we pick, we sponge.
Speaker 1: It is a human thing to sponge. And also if
Speaker 1: a linguist were on right now, they would say that
Speaker 1: is why dialects exist. That is why there are so
Speaker 1: many different sounds around the world. It's tribal. It makes
Speaker 1: us feel safer on a biological level to sound like
Speaker 1: the people were around, and then to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: those people don't sound like me, so they must not
Speaker 1: be safe. It's also the heart of why internal biases
Speaker 1: around dialect are so hard to shake. It's really primal.
Speaker 1: We're primed to be scared of people who don't sound
Speaker 1: like us. It's a fucking bummer in our globalized world,
Speaker 1: like we want to connect with the rest of the
Speaker 1: world and treat everybody like humans, and we also have
Speaker 1: these things inside of us that are trying to keep
Speaker 1: safe these instincts. Um, how we should take a break.
Speaker 1: We will be back into a second and we're back cut.
Speaker 1: What's mixed? Um? I have a question for you. If
Speaker 1: someone's long winded, how do they effectively get to the
Speaker 1: point of a story or a question and a business
Speaker 1: setting at home in person without losing the authenticity and
Speaker 1: excitement about the question that they're asking or the project
Speaker 1: that they're working on. How do we get to the point? Yeah,
Speaker 1: my answer is making about the other person? What do
Speaker 1: they need to know? Right? If this is something where
Speaker 1: we're actually trying to develop a story for when we're
Speaker 1: going to have the floor in a more formal context,
Speaker 1: then that is actually something we can think about ahead
Speaker 1: of time. Right. How am I going to tell the story?
Speaker 1: Where does it start? How do I make sure that
Speaker 1: I'm getting to a conclusion where the why of the
Speaker 1: message of the story is there? Or is it just
Speaker 1: a story that's like this funny thing happen to me.
Speaker 1: If I want to connect it to the people to
Speaker 1: the why I'm telling it, then I have to have
Speaker 1: to develop it ahead of time. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: very anti instinctual because it's not how we go through
Speaker 1: life telling stories. But uh, if it's not, if it's
Speaker 1: not this formal context, if it really is just like,
Speaker 1: how do I cut out the fluff, connect as aggressively
Speaker 1: as possible to who you're talking to and why in
Speaker 1: the moment, and let yourself breathe and let yourself think
Speaker 1: and don't just get on a roll. And if you
Speaker 1: feel yourself getting on a role, stop I went down
Speaker 1: a tangent. Hold on, let me collect myself. I think
Speaker 1: that most of our long winded nous is from not
Speaker 1: collecting ourselves, not taking literally a second to breathe and
Speaker 1: like organize the parts of our body that are all
Speaker 1: like wow, I thought, all the stuff is going on right?
Speaker 1: If we can breathe and collect and go, why am
Speaker 1: I telling this story? Oh? I know? I want to
Speaker 1: get to this part that will help us. And the
Speaker 1: other part of it is that often if we're going
Speaker 1: off on a billion tangents, it's because we don't really
Speaker 1: trust our voices. We don't really trust that we can
Speaker 1: say something once and and be done. Like I wasn't
Speaker 1: heard as a kid. This is a little bit about right.
Speaker 1: How we talk to ourselves on the inside affects how
Speaker 1: we talk on the outside totally and practice. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm actually I'm trying to do it right now as
Speaker 1: I talk. There's we all have different modes. We can
Speaker 1: totally be tangenty and random. I like, the last thing
Speaker 1: I want to do is tamp anyone down. The whole
Speaker 1: point of permission to speak is that my version of
Speaker 1: public speaking is not about put you in this box.
Speaker 1: It's about let you out so you do you. But
Speaker 1: if you're working on a specific thing, then you can try.
Speaker 1: You can turn a microphone on because it tends to
Speaker 1: make us all a little bit more intentional. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: turn your voice memos app on when you're alone in
Speaker 1: a room and try to tell a story. Envision who
Speaker 1: you're talking to. Don't just tell it to a wall.
Speaker 1: God knows that it's not. It's not a helpful thing. Uh.
Speaker 1: Think of who you're talking to, think about them, smiling
Speaker 1: and nodding. Right, set yourself up for success, and then
Speaker 1: tell that story and see see if you can get
Speaker 1: to the end. With this few like, you know, tangents
Speaker 1: that end up seeming like you're sort of apologizing for
Speaker 1: exist stay as possible. And if you hear yourself going,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Because there was this other time. You know, when you
Speaker 1: hear yourself doing those tangents, stop the recording started again,
Speaker 1: and try this time. What if I sounded like somebody
Speaker 1: who really believed herself, who really knew that this story
Speaker 1: deserved to be heard. Just really really tell yourself that.
Speaker 1: I'll tell yourself that and see what comes out. You know,
Speaker 1: we can all practice. I mean, I'm also not against
Speaker 1: using ms and likes. I mean, I think that's a
Speaker 1: big old you know whatever. It's like a Baal stereotype
Speaker 1: that like, we shouldn't talk in ums and likes, you know,
Speaker 1: Go and listen to Amantemont tell I love when she
Speaker 1: was like, if you take all those out, you actually
Speaker 1: don't sound human. But when we're using too many of them,
Speaker 1: it is sometimes because we do not trust that we
Speaker 1: can say what we want to say and get to
Speaker 1: the end of our thought without taking it back, without
Speaker 1: somehow apologizing for taking up time and space. We can practice,
Speaker 1: I am practicing it right now. I was holding an
Speaker 1: intentional beat. Thank you, so I didn't cut anyone off.
Speaker 1: We have a Peruvian actor in the US, but English
Speaker 1: is not his first language. He says. If I speak
Speaker 1: with my normal accent, I'm sometimes told I'm playing a
Speaker 1: stereotype and limiting my casting range. And if I speak
Speaker 1: with a standard accent, I'm accused of trying to be
Speaker 1: someone I'm not. What would you suggest in my case?
Speaker 1: And before you answer that, I actually think this is
Speaker 1: somewhat connected here. We're going to jump down a little
Speaker 1: bit to a question we have from a black woman
Speaker 1: who grew up in a predominantly white town. She's been
Speaker 1: told all of her life that she sounds white or
Speaker 1: too white. She asks, why does this have such a
Speaker 1: negative connotation and what can I do to change my
Speaker 1: generally offended response. Why should I sound blacker and why
Speaker 1: should I sound whiter? For that matter? It's all very
Speaker 1: confusing to me. Yeah, yeah, I really hear this. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, English is a second language, and also people
Speaker 1: who are dealing with, you know, deep rooted racist notions
Speaker 1: of what standard American is and isn't. Are both people
Speaker 1: who have had to like think much more consciously than
Speaker 1: a lot of the rest of us. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a privilege to sort of find this podcast and
Speaker 1: then start thinking about your voice. You know, for a
Speaker 1: lot of people, they don't have that privilege because it's
Speaker 1: something that they're that they're confronted with every day from
Speaker 1: people having all kinds of opinions. Uh, and because there
Speaker 1: isn't I mean, you know, I'm on this kick to
Speaker 1: say that there's, um, there's clearly a beauty industrial complex,
Speaker 1: and there's no voice industrial complex. We don't even know.
Speaker 1: Not only are there standards of the voice that are
Speaker 1: really nebulous, but we don't have any of the language
Speaker 1: to talk about it. It's not like we can say,
Speaker 1: stop that shaming me, what's the difference, what's the what's
Speaker 1: the version here? Stop voice shaming me? I mean, I
Speaker 1: would like to introduce that or something like that into
Speaker 1: the lexicon, because the reality is the people who are
Speaker 1: saying that to you have no idea that what they're
Speaker 1: doing is like, you know, racism as where they stand.
Speaker 1: They don't know, they don't have you know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to blame them, even but you know, for people
Speaker 1: in Hollywood to tell this actor uh, you're doing a
Speaker 1: stereo type when you really are just sounding like yourself.
Speaker 1: You know, Hollywood is full of people who think that
Speaker 1: they know everything and don't you know, And I'm so
Speaker 1: furious for you that you have to deal with that.
Speaker 1: I think an answer for both, actually for for for
Speaker 1: both of these listeners might be in this word idi elect.
Speaker 1: It might be in giving yourself the language to say
Speaker 1: back to people. It sounds to me like you have
Speaker 1: a stereotype of how I should sound based on how
Speaker 1: I look. But actually, there's this really cool idea I
Speaker 1: just heard about of an idiolect. It means that every
Speaker 1: single one of us sounds different from every single other
Speaker 1: person because our life experience is reflected in our voice.
Speaker 1: Do you want to know more about my life experience?
Speaker 1: Because really we just have to open it up for people.
Speaker 1: We have to, you know, teach. As much as that's
Speaker 1: like annoying, you don't have to. I mean, God knows,
Speaker 1: you can just like disengage. I think being offended is
Speaker 1: completely allowed. Please don't be like sorry about being offended.
Speaker 1: But if we want to also, you know, change the story,
Speaker 1: change the way everybody is listening to our voices. There
Speaker 1: is an element of teaching involved if we're if we're
Speaker 1: willing to take that on, and I think the teaching
Speaker 1: is is just this. It sounds like you're sort of
Speaker 1: trying to put me into a box of sounds. I
Speaker 1: totally get it. We're all trying to meaning make here,
Speaker 1: but I don't fit into that box because of my
Speaker 1: life experience. Do you want to know more about my
Speaker 1: life experience? It ruins met a little bit of the
Speaker 1: Michelle Obama thing. If you can't hate up close, as
Speaker 1: soon as you start to hear somebody's real story, then
Speaker 1: you can enroll your listener. Again, not your fucking responsibility,
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry you have to do this, but if
Speaker 1: you want, you can enroll your your listener. The person
Speaker 1: who who has you know said things about your voice,
Speaker 1: you can enroll them in geekdom around the fact that
Speaker 1: all of us sound different from everyone else. You know,
Speaker 1: this is challenging. This is real challenging. I and I
Speaker 1: want to I don't think you read these. I just
Speaker 1: want to also let you know that, UM, one of
Speaker 1: our listeners said that they have a deeper voice compared
Speaker 1: to most women. UM, and so the issues that she
Speaker 1: runs into are a little different than most. Mainly, she
Speaker 1: feels like she can't raise her voice without people accusing
Speaker 1: her of being needlessly angry, even when it's justified. Combine
Speaker 1: that with being a first generation Nigerian American, and that's
Speaker 1: a whole lot of stuff I have to unpack. Yes,
Speaker 1: it is okay. So I just she just wants to
Speaker 1: thank you for this podcast and for giving her the
Speaker 1: comfort that she's not overreacting and she's looking forward to
Speaker 1: more episodes. Yeah, I mean, um, you're not over reacting.
Speaker 1: I dream of a future where all of us can
Speaker 1: be as angry as we actually are, justifiably so about
Speaker 1: various things that pop up in our life, whether it's
Speaker 1: political or personal. We're just to not only be angry,
Speaker 1: or not only have these feelings, but also have them
Speaker 1: move through us the way that they do for children.
Speaker 1: Once you feel the feelings, you get to sort of
Speaker 1: move on from them. I mean, that's my dream scenario
Speaker 1: for during this pandemic. When I'm just feeling like, you know,
Speaker 1: hopeless and overwhelmed, just like feel it, and then it's
Speaker 1: more likely to move along, suppress it, and it's more
Speaker 1: likely to stick around. Right, So I just want to
Speaker 1: honor that, and then also, yeah, the angry black woman
Speaker 1: trope is so overplayed. It's something you know, Michelle Obama
Speaker 1: had to deal with, Sarah her Witts talked about that,
Speaker 1: and obviously Michelle talked about it in Becoming. It's just
Speaker 1: one of those things where like how we look gives
Speaker 1: us a whole lot of different leeway to be different ways.
Speaker 1: I mean, Brett Kavanaugh was a disturbingly good example of
Speaker 1: how being unnecessarily angry about something can seem like respect
Speaker 1: can seem like, uh, we should respect him, his his
Speaker 1: his righteous anger. And you know, I bet for this listener,
Speaker 1: if she's angry in a context, she gets branded as
Speaker 1: being irrational. The rationality of anger is very gendered and
Speaker 1: certainly racialized as well. Um there are three amazing books
Speaker 1: about this, one by somebody who's about to be on
Speaker 1: the podcast named Sorya Shmali called Rage Becomes Her Um,
Speaker 1: and the other ones are Brittany Cooper's Eloquent Rage and
Speaker 1: one of the biggest inspirations for this podcast, Rebecca Tray, Stirs, Good,
Speaker 1: and Mad. All three of them are about female rage
Speaker 1: in the Trump era, and all three of them are
Speaker 1: are different ways in to talk about how a we
Speaker 1: can process rage healthily and be we can channel it
Speaker 1: to make the world a better place. And I think
Speaker 1: one of the biggest reframes there, which is from Rebecca
Speaker 1: Trayster for me, is that if we know our history,
Speaker 1: women's anger has moved forward society at almost every turn,
Speaker 1: and then for obvious reasons like it scares the patriarchy,
Speaker 1: we are continually told to feel ashamed of our anger.
Speaker 1: But if we think of our anger as our fire,
Speaker 1: as the thing that will make our society better, it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean we can always bring it out in every
Speaker 1: context with no bad consequences, unfortunately, but it does mean
Speaker 1: that we can at least love ourselves through that process
Speaker 1: of having to sometimes hide. It's great so true. We
Speaker 1: have a question from an avid listener. Growing up, I
Speaker 1: was often told that I was too loud or too emotional,
Speaker 1: which is why it sur I would never ever say
Speaker 1: things like this to my kids when I had them,
Speaker 1: if I had them. I now have a four year
Speaker 1: old son, and he has a lot of energy and
Speaker 1: speaks very loudly. It's familiar. Um. We had his hearing
Speaker 1: tested and everything came back normal. However, I'm finding myself
Speaker 1: constantly telling him to speak softer or be quiet, which
Speaker 1: I really dislike doing. How can we teach kids about
Speaker 1: their voices early on, to enjoy and expand their voices,
Speaker 1: both literally and internally, but to be conscious speakers and listeners.
Speaker 1: I love this question. I have two answers. One of
Speaker 1: them I feel like we might have hit on in
Speaker 1: an earlier episode, although I don't. I don't so if
Speaker 1: it's repetitive for people, you know what, it's too bad.
Speaker 1: Who kind it's called reinforcement ladies and gentlemen, um, I
Speaker 1: would too. So two things. The first one is very
Speaker 1: is very specific practical advice, which is I think that
Speaker 1: four is not too early to start talking about helping
Speaker 1: your child read a room. This is not about don't
Speaker 1: talk loud, because I agree that that's not a very
Speaker 1: helpful you know, and as she can clearly attest, it
Speaker 1: ends up having lifelong ramifications of feeling like you know
Speaker 1: you were signed unced, but rather saying I'm right here,
Speaker 1: or saying do you think that you could talk a
Speaker 1: little quieter to get what you want? Or do you
Speaker 1: think that this room needs that kind of volume, like
Speaker 1: really asking them questions, not sounding like an asshole, but
Speaker 1: really trying to get them to think through. You can
Speaker 1: even talk about like, are you speaking at that volume
Speaker 1: right now because you have a lot of energy and
Speaker 1: you just want to get stuff out? Or are you
Speaker 1: speaking at that volume because you think you need to
Speaker 1: for me to hear you. If it's the former, let
Speaker 1: them run around outside a little bit. You know, I
Speaker 1: can tell because of our previous conversation that when you
Speaker 1: talk at that volume, it's because you need to run around,
Speaker 1: you need to move your legs. Cool, good to know.
Speaker 1: Or you know, it may very well be that the
Speaker 1: kid thinks that they need to talk that loudly in
Speaker 1: order to get their needs met. You know. I like
Speaker 1: to say to my son something along the lines of, like,
Speaker 1: when you talked quieter, did you notice how you actually
Speaker 1: got what you wanted better? Right? Because, Like, because I
Speaker 1: have this acting background, everything is about like tact in
Speaker 1: order to get your needs met. I mean that's sort
Speaker 1: of like how we all learn acting, like how to
Speaker 1: break down script. So it's a tactic. If we can
Speaker 1: think about volume as a tactic and teach our kid
Speaker 1: how to think in terms of tactics, I think that's
Speaker 1: really empowering for them. As well as we'll get us
Speaker 1: the results we want, which is that they filled the
Speaker 1: size of the space and no bigger. The other thing
Speaker 1: I want to say, though, that's much more philosophical, is
Speaker 1: Nancy Luna Jimnez, who I'm hoping to get on the
Speaker 1: podcast Nancy spelled with an eye does the stunning work
Speaker 1: with adults to sort of help them see that the
Speaker 1: ways that all of us got stifled as kids is
Speaker 1: the beginning of It's going to sound really heavy handed,
Speaker 1: but is the beginning of sort of the ways that
Speaker 1: we perpetuate oppression. Put more simply telling kids to not
Speaker 1: feel the feelings they're having, she calls adult is um.
Speaker 1: Making kids kind of be adults, process things too quickly,
Speaker 1: too early, has lifelong ramifications. I think about this all
Speaker 1: the time with my kid because and he has an
Speaker 1: oversized emotion. It is inconvenient and sometimes infuriating and sometimes silly,
Speaker 1: let's be honest. And yet I am trying desperately to
Speaker 1: make sure that he's allowed to have his oversized emotions
Speaker 1: as he figures out what size emotion he wants to
Speaker 1: bring to a space, and that will happen the older
Speaker 1: he gets. It's hard, Hey, what was it? Jack? Be quiet,
Speaker 1: I am trying to report podcast. Just kidding. UM, I
Speaker 1: love my son. Ladies and gentlemen, set up up. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break and we'll be
Speaker 1: right back. We're back, so let's get down to some
Speaker 1: brass texts as they say, some terminology. UM, vocal fry.
Speaker 1: I still don't get it, and I don't know exactly
Speaker 1: what it is. You mentioned that people may use vocal
Speaker 1: fry in order to not seem in intimidating. Do you
Speaker 1: think that there could be other reasons? Sometimes it seems
Speaker 1: to be a way to a peer over it therefore
Speaker 1: not vulnerable thoughts I literally combined probably about seven people asking,
Speaker 1: and so do I. I mean, I actually love this
Speaker 1: because sometimes I fear that I'm mentioning it too much
Speaker 1: or that it's like such an obvious, like culturally agreed
Speaker 1: upon thing at this point, But of course you know,
Speaker 1: it's a little inside baseball and it's not totally obvious. Um,
Speaker 1: vocal fry is literally just the sound that happens when
Speaker 1: we're on our voice like we are now, and then
Speaker 1: we go off it. So it has this sort of
Speaker 1: quality to it, right, So like Inevitably it ends up
Speaker 1: sounding a little like a door creaking open, and so
Speaker 1: people call it creaking voice sometimes instead of vocal fry.
Speaker 1: I think the fry word is meant to sound like
Speaker 1: bacon frying, right, Like there's some sort of that quality
Speaker 1: a It is not gendered. Everybody does that. I was
Speaker 1: just gonna say, men do it too, and I feel
Speaker 1: like it hurts? Is it hurting? Um? It can hurt,
Speaker 1: is another thing for sure, especially if you do it habitually,
Speaker 1: like all the time. Him Another thing I will say.
Speaker 1: I think it comes in two forms. It comes in
Speaker 1: a billion forms, but in two major categories. One is
Speaker 1: when somebody opens their mouth to speak, and from beginning
Speaker 1: to end of thought it is all in vocal fry.
Speaker 1: We have people in our lives who do this, right,
Speaker 1: you can start to listen for it. Now. I'm going
Speaker 1: to do some example of it here. We'll see how
Speaker 1: that goes. But it's really the equivalent of saying like,
Speaker 1: what's your name and being like, my name is Samara,
Speaker 1: and um, I just wanted to talk to you guys
Speaker 1: today about what's going on with me? Right versus category too.
Speaker 1: It comes up at the end of a thought and
Speaker 1: really only at the end, so we're saying something. We're
Speaker 1: saying I believe that, you know, children are a future,
Speaker 1: but instead of getting all the way to the end
Speaker 1: of the thought, we go I believe the children are
Speaker 1: a future, which is up speaking vocal fried together, or
Speaker 1: I believe the children are a future, which is just
Speaker 1: vocal fry future. Right. We do this for a lot
Speaker 1: of reasons. I love that question. Is it is it
Speaker 1: about being unintimidating or is it about over it? Yes
Speaker 1: to all of that, I mean um. When Dr Gupta
Speaker 1: was on, she said that actually going doing vocal fry
Speaker 1: is a way of avoiding up speak. So if we
Speaker 1: don't want to sound like we're going up in a
Speaker 1: question at the end of a statement, we deliberately like literally,
Speaker 1: instead of going up and pitch, we go down and
Speaker 1: pitch to the point where it's below our our regular range,
Speaker 1: and so it goes into vocal fry, just as you know,
Speaker 1: the alternative to going up. But often it's that we're
Speaker 1: not breathing enough something I'm always on, you know, we
Speaker 1: just always hope that there was a There was another
Speaker 1: question I got about this about not about like what's
Speaker 1: going on with breathing. We have someone who they are
Speaker 1: an actress and a yoga instructor, and they know the
Speaker 1: importance of breath work, how to get to it, how
Speaker 1: to teach it, and the anxiousness that this person is
Speaker 1: carrying during these bonkers times UM is not allowing them
Speaker 1: to tap into their breath work, and it's truly stifling them.
Speaker 1: The question was, what does this person do when they
Speaker 1: cannot get to that place of breath work to on themselves.
Speaker 1: What's the next tool in your toolbag? Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think that part. I think that what's happening on
Speaker 1: a physical level with the with the amount of ongoing
Speaker 1: low low grade trauma sometimes high grade for for some
Speaker 1: of us. UM, that's happening with our planet right now,
Speaker 1: but also with you know, our finances, with all the
Speaker 1: things that are that are the fallout. UM. It's showing
Speaker 1: up in our bodies as fatigue like literally just you know,
Speaker 1: always being tired. But also and relatedly probably UM not
Speaker 1: giving ourselves enough space to breathe. We're just holding our breath.
Speaker 1: When we get anxious, we just tighten, we tighten. It
Speaker 1: happens all over you know, in between our um are
Speaker 1: like armpits you know, like there's a reason that that
Speaker 1: power pose is a thing. It's as much about like
Speaker 1: expanding our whole bodies as it is literally about creating
Speaker 1: space under our arms. Because that that thing of getting
Speaker 1: really really pinning your elbows to your body is a
Speaker 1: way of trying to be really small. It's also a
Speaker 1: way of trying to hold in breath, right, Like, if
Speaker 1: we're not breathing enough, that's also this vocal fried comes out.
Speaker 1: You know. I was starting to say, if we aren't
Speaker 1: breathing with enough support that we can really get to
Speaker 1: the end of a long and I care type of thought. Uh.
Speaker 1: Our throats fortunately know how to compensate, and they compensate
Speaker 1: by like just pushing the tiny bit of air through
Speaker 1: and that is partly where vocal frid comes from. We
Speaker 1: just have this sort of thing happen. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: I want to honor that person who asked that question
Speaker 1: about the meditation and breathing being um, you know, like
Speaker 1: not not just second nature. It's not second nature, and
Speaker 1: especially when anything bad is happening, it is not second
Speaker 1: nature to breathe deeply and well and support all of
Speaker 1: the you know, systems in our body with this like prana, yoga,
Speaker 1: life force, breath. It just doesn't always happen. We can
Speaker 1: be intentional about it and try to make it happen.
Speaker 1: We can do meditation in yoga and then try to
Speaker 1: move that energy with us into our day. But you know,
Speaker 1: if we find ourselves holding again, I just want to say, like, yeah, hi,
Speaker 1: I am definitely feeling it too, definitely, and let's have
Speaker 1: a dance party. Let's try to have a dance party
Speaker 1: in that more totally, totally. I mean, you know, the
Speaker 1: opposite of this tightness is not just looseness, but its freedom,
Speaker 1: this quality of freedom. We all want to feel free
Speaker 1: right now, and you know, but to get back to
Speaker 1: the specifics of the vocal fry, some of that is
Speaker 1: the same issue. It's not just we want to be free,
Speaker 1: like because tight equals icky and the world is messed up.
Speaker 1: It's also like vocal fry happens for so many reasons.
Speaker 1: Some of it is just literally our body is not
Speaker 1: being supported enough, so we go into our throats. But
Speaker 1: some of it is I mean, I love this, this,
Speaker 1: this point that this listener made that it can be
Speaker 1: about being over it. It's a great way. Vocal fry
Speaker 1: is a great way of highlighting that we're saying something
Speaker 1: cliche or we're saying something that we're bored with to
Speaker 1: be like, I mean, right, like we say that for
Speaker 1: a reason. It has all kinds of vocal markers of
Speaker 1: like I mean, the reason I say cliche is I've
Speaker 1: heard myself do this where I'm like, you know what
Speaker 1: they say, the more things change, the more they stay
Speaker 1: in this day, Right, it's like wat wall, It's like
Speaker 1: putting a wat wat into our voice. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: we are allowed to bring so much nuance to what
Speaker 1: we're saying. We don't have to. You know, we can
Speaker 1: be sarcastic, we can be ironic, we can be all
Speaker 1: these things. And vocal fry, I think serves a lot
Speaker 1: of really interesting purposes to sort of carve out. UM
Speaker 1: also carves out parenthetical statements like I'm saying something really
Speaker 1: big over here, but also by the way, da, and
Speaker 1: now I'm back to the big thing, right though, there
Speaker 1: are different ways that we're that we're coloring, shaping, painting
Speaker 1: thoughts for our listeners. Very Shakespeare by the way, I
Speaker 1: love that, yes, painting for our listeners. Um. Okay, one
Speaker 1: more of our terminology section here, UM I recently had
Speaker 1: a female friend referred to herself as man splaining something,
Speaker 1: meaning she started to pontificate, pontificate, pontificate good word her
Speaker 1: point of view. She warned us she would be man
Speaker 1: splanning to us. So what does it mean when of
Speaker 1: fem is man splaining? Is this a thing for a
Speaker 1: fem to speak up at this moment? Is this always
Speaker 1: something to be celebrated or is it just the other
Speaker 1: side of the same coin and both genders should be
Speaker 1: careful about it. Are we out of balance enough so
Speaker 1: that fems are allowed to explain until we are in
Speaker 1: better balance of power? Um? And the oh no, And
Speaker 1: I have thoughts. Um, First of all, I think that Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think that this woman actually just like
Speaker 1: was using that term very loosely, and it it sort
Speaker 1: of loses all meaning if the you know, oppressed side
Speaker 1: is using it to theoretically oppress. Um, it's a little
Speaker 1: bit like reverse racism, which is not a thing. So UM, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think this person really what she meant was I'm
Speaker 1: about to teach you guys something, and I don't feel
Speaker 1: comfortable putting myself into an authority position, so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: undermine myself a little bit with a joke. That's what
Speaker 1: I think, which is allowed, like let's use language and
Speaker 1: evolve language, and but sometimes language then loses meaning. And
Speaker 1: for the second half, I mean related, you know, for famas,
Speaker 1: I'm assuming you meet women and also um, you know,
Speaker 1: women plus anybody who's in transition or who is presenting
Speaker 1: as a woman. I think that there's two different questions
Speaker 1: in here. One of them is are we equally all
Speaker 1: allowed to be assholes? You know? I would love I
Speaker 1: would love for everybody to be um more conscious about
Speaker 1: how they're thinking. I don't necessarily think women can man explain,
Speaker 1: but I do think that women can bulldoze. In fact,
Speaker 1: I think there was another question that a friend asked
Speaker 1: about somebody who was who was bulldozing through conversations and
Speaker 1: you know, not allowing others literally silencing other people when
Speaker 1: you were doing that. It would be great to notice
Speaker 1: that and not just to say finally, I'm taking on
Speaker 1: masculine characteristics pat on the back. You know, men should
Speaker 1: also learn to not do that, but so should women.
Speaker 1: The other part of it is, uh, is the patriarchy
Speaker 1: so out of balance that women should always be able
Speaker 1: to speak up? You know, Yes, but with the caveat
Speaker 1: that it is still on us to speak up consciously,
Speaker 1: to be thoughtful about the people around us, to always
Speaker 1: be asking why am I? Why am I having this conversation,
Speaker 1: what would be what would be a win for the
Speaker 1: other person in having this conversation. I also want to
Speaker 1: say before I get off of this that um, the
Speaker 1: other the other question that I don't think we have
Speaker 1: time for right now, but that I'm referencing about bulldozing.
Speaker 1: If somebody is bulldozing in your life, if it's not you,
Speaker 1: but somebody else, I do think you have to talk
Speaker 1: to them. I think you have to find somebody in
Speaker 1: your in your social circle who is the person to
Speaker 1: step into a servant leadership role and take that person
Speaker 1: aside and have a tough conversation. I mean, in the
Speaker 1: first half of this UM mail bag last week I
Speaker 1: called it a care frontation. I mean, you know there
Speaker 1: we are hashtag care frontation. But to say, um, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you notice that you're doing this, and
Speaker 1: what I really really love and appreciate about you is
Speaker 1: but or not even but and um, here's how we
Speaker 1: could use some support because something is happening dynamic wise
Speaker 1: in our conversations that isn't effective as it could be.
Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, we have a lot of questions
Speaker 1: people asking you to do dialects and accents, and you
Speaker 1: know what, we just don't have time for it. But
Speaker 1: I have a great question from a middle school drama teacher, UM,
Speaker 1: who's obviously teaching over zoom as well right now, so
Speaker 1: it's a little bit more of a challenging time, and
Speaker 1: she finds tone inside and outside of the classrooms so
Speaker 1: important to effective communication. Would you be able to give
Speaker 1: a vocal reference to explain a lesson in tone meeting?
Speaker 1: Could you say a few questions or statements, but say
Speaker 1: them in two completely different tones to show how much
Speaker 1: tone of voice can almost literally change. Meaning I don't
Speaker 1: even know what sentence to use, because this can happen
Speaker 1: on any sentence. But I do think that, um, most
Speaker 1: of us, all of us have the mechanisms to have
Speaker 1: a wide variety of tones, and don't always trust that
Speaker 1: that's the case, or we get habitually stuck in just
Speaker 1: a few But even like as simple as come here.
Speaker 1: You know these two words. When you see come here
Speaker 1: written down out of context, it can be everything from
Speaker 1: like a really aggressive command to it, come on right,
Speaker 1: and we humans do know how to create that sort
Speaker 1: of nuance. We just have to actually use the tools.
Speaker 1: You know, if we want to practice, we could practice.
Speaker 1: I mean like, there's a way to say come here
Speaker 1: that's like come here, which means do it now right.
Speaker 1: There's a way to say come here that's like come here,
Speaker 1: come here. Technically speaking, we dropped the h. Maybe it
Speaker 1: goes into vocal fry come here right, which is just
Speaker 1: like this is gonna be easy. Come here right, is
Speaker 1: like speaking to somebody who needs a little extra love.
Speaker 1: Come here, come here, come here, come here right. And
Speaker 1: then you can see from there we can get into
Speaker 1: really flirty come here, come here right. There's so many
Speaker 1: different ways that all of us can do that. We
Speaker 1: just have to actually think the thought of what we
Speaker 1: want the other person to be feeling that. Um let's see. Okay, So, Samara,
Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners are really feeling inspired, including myself,
Speaker 1: about your vocal library that you've created. Um, can you
Speaker 1: share why why you find that the vocal library was
Speaker 1: something that you found so important and what that means
Speaker 1: to you and why you wanted to include it in
Speaker 1: the show. You know, I love that there's a spot
Speaker 1: in every episode to talk about what's working, uh, for
Speaker 1: two reasons. One because often when we're thinking about women's voices,
Speaker 1: if there is any tradition of of of talking, you know,
Speaker 1: actually actually talking about women's voices instead of just sort
Speaker 1: of like whispering about like I don't like her voice
Speaker 1: without knowing how to talk about it. If there is
Speaker 1: any tradition, it's to point out what isn't working. Right,
Speaker 1: she has vocal fry, so I can't take her seriously
Speaker 1: quote unquote, or Hillary Clinton was shrill quote unquote. Right.
Speaker 1: We hear all these, We hear all these, and they're
Speaker 1: all different ways of saying. Here's why a woman speaking
Speaker 1: in public sounds weird to my ears when the reality
Speaker 1: is a woman speaking in public sounds weird to your ears,
Speaker 1: because there's been thousands of years of you know, patriarchal
Speaker 1: rule where um public space meant men's space, y'all. So
Speaker 1: every time we open our mouths to talk in public,
Speaker 1: and some spaces are more accommodating than others, but every
Speaker 1: time we are disrupting thousands of years of this ship. Right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So a that's partly why I just want to have
Speaker 1: a space where we can talk about what's working and
Speaker 1: not what's not working. And the other reason is that
Speaker 1: I think this happens with me, and I've noticed this
Speaker 1: happened with enough other people that I can say it
Speaker 1: with some authority. Um, we have a sort of cultural
Speaker 1: amnesia about what it what a powerful voice sounds like.
Speaker 1: So we might have this moment where we're listening to
Speaker 1: AOC or we're listening to Katie Porter, or we're listening
Speaker 1: to somebody who isn't in politics but who is grabbing
Speaker 1: a microphone or who's talking into an Instagram live and
Speaker 1: being authentic and being themselves and like speaking to us us,
Speaker 1: And we can have this moment where like we think,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I want to be her, or I
Speaker 1: love her, or I you know, this is it. But
Speaker 1: then when somebody says, what is a powerful voice sound like?
Speaker 1: We revert back to some you know whatever JFK comes
Speaker 1: to mind, like you know, some sort of like old
Speaker 1: timey straight white man who we aren't and will never be.
Speaker 1: And I think that this amnesia is something that we
Speaker 1: need to actively work on by thinking of every one
Speaker 1: of those times that we hear a woman's voice and
Speaker 1: we hear her speak to our soul as a data point,
Speaker 1: We're mapping the future of what power can sound like.
Speaker 1: We want to each be our own data point eventually,
Speaker 1: if we don't already feel like we are in what
Speaker 1: power can sound like as we gain more power, as
Speaker 1: we redefine what power is. And you know, that's what
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that that third act does for people, is
Speaker 1: to make us all think like, Oh, power can sound
Speaker 1: so many different ways, and it can even sound me.
Speaker 1: Thank you tomorrow to be clean X. Thank you for
Speaker 1: giving our listeners permission to speak truly and for encouraging
Speaker 1: people to use their authentic voices and find that even
Speaker 1: during difficult times. UM, I just want to say thank you, kat.
Speaker 1: I feel like you have given yourself a little little
Speaker 1: a little extra soup some of permission to speak today
Speaker 1: and I really want to applaud you. UM, this is beautiful.
Speaker 1: I really loved, I really loved being in conversation with
Speaker 1: you and also feeling like the actual energy of you
Speaker 1: guys listening. UM, thank you so much for being a
Speaker 1: listener on this podcast, for being with me on this journey.
Speaker 1: I think that the only way that we will actually
Speaker 1: change what power sounds like in America is together and
Speaker 1: you are my together. So thank you for being together
Speaker 1: with me. Guys, thank you for giving me permission to
Speaker 1: get dressed today like I got dressed up for you today,
Speaker 1: because you honestly show up to everything you do a
Speaker 1: hundred and and I really admire it. It's not easy,
Speaker 1: and you're doing such a great job. I know how
Speaker 1: how important having cheerleaders are and having family around and
Speaker 1: having all those things are to you, to me, to everyone,
Speaker 1: and it's really tough right now to not have that space.
Speaker 1: But there are so many amazing questions and people listening
Speaker 1: to this show, and I invite our listeners to have
Speaker 1: a dialogue with your family, with your friends, and also
Speaker 1: with us, like we're part of your community here, and
Speaker 1: please write into our show, connect with us, ask questions.
Speaker 1: Be bold. Now is the time more than ever to
Speaker 1: figure out what that means. And it can mean sitting
Speaker 1: in quiet or still this for a little while, and
Speaker 1: it can mean speaking boldly. But tomorrow you're doing all
Speaker 1: of that, and I and I and I also invite
Speaker 1: our guests and listeners to go to your website because
Speaker 1: there's a lot of more fun content and so many
Speaker 1: more cool guests coming and awesome surprises that live on
Speaker 1: your social media that they're just gifts. You're a gift.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. And we also got somebody asking
Speaker 1: I know UM for recommendations of this type of stuff
Speaker 1: that I'm reading that influenced me, and I made an
Speaker 1: I G live about it that lives up on obviously
Speaker 1: on my Instagram UM at Permission to Speak Pod, so
Speaker 1: do check that out and I will link to it
Speaker 1: in the show notes. So let's definitely you know, share
Speaker 1: resources along those lines. Thanks well at Permission to Speak
Speaker 1: Pod or Permission to Speak pod dot com and we're out.
Speaker 1: Thank you to Cat for joining me for a second
Speaker 1: half of this massive episode UM, and thank you to
Speaker 1: all of you for sending in questions for going on
Speaker 1: this UM journey with me and uh you know, changing
Speaker 1: the world together. Thanks for that, guys. Thank you to
Speaker 1: Sophie Lichtman and the team at I Heeart Radio and
Speaker 1: all of you. We're recording this podcast at various locations
Speaker 1: around Los Angeles on land that is the historic gathering
Speaker 1: place for the Tongva indigenous tribe, and you can visit
Speaker 1: US D A C dot us to learn more about
Speaker 1: honoring Native Land. Permission to Speak is a production of
Speaker 1: I heart Radio and Double Vision Executive produced by Katherine
Speaker 1: Burke Canton and Mark Canton. For more podcasts from I
Speaker 1: heart Radio, listen on the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite shows.