WEBVTT - Hall of Mirrors 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:09.200 Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. It happened all 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:11.360 at once. My brother and I are sitting naked in 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:13.480 the bath, playing with our toy boats, listening to the 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.040 music and the sound of muffled voices from the next room. 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:19.040 We are swallowed in red and green wool blankets and 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.800 ready for sleep. Storytime pajamas, the rubbing of tired eyes. 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.800 Good night canyon, good night mountain, good night building, good 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:30.240 night stars. Crans are put away, cubbies, clean teeth, brush. 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.839 I drift to sleep, and I'm rattled awake, surprised to 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.720 see my mother's face with her shaved head, her hazel 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.560 green eyes, her round Dutch cheeks, and crooked yellow, coffee 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:39.200 stained teeth. 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:43.360 I go wake up. We have to leave. It's not 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:44.000 safe here. 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:51.080 That's mikel Joli, musician, frontman of the indie rock band 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:56.200 Airborne Toxic Event and author of the recent memoir Hollywood Park. 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:01.120 Michel's is a story about trauma and real resilience, the 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:05.240 scars that remain and the ones healed by time, hard work, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:10.319 and an extraordinary human spirit determined to survive, thrive, and 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:25.800 grow strong against all odds. I'm Danny Shapiro, and this 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.640 is family secrets, the secrets that are kept from us, 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:31.520 the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:32.919 keep from ourselves. 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:42.080 I was born in a place called Synanon, which was 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:44.760 what I understood as a child. I was told it 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.840 was a commune. We now understand it was cult. I 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.360 was born inside the orphanage that existed in that cult. 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.360 It's funny because I'm like, we talked about family secrets here, right, 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.040 and like one of the secrets of my family was 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.760 that this was abusive and not something that was ever 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:04.600 explained to us because we were told we were put 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.280 into this school. And what happened was the leader of 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.840 the cult decided that rather than be the children of 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:14.560 your parents, everyone would be the children. 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:15.200 Of the society. 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:17.600 So there was like a six month period you were 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:19.040 kind of like you were born, and then you could 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.560 be with your mom and breastfeed and all that kind 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.280 of stuff in a place called the hatchery. There's these 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:26.960 wonderful nineteen seventies, sixties or welling in terms. 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:29.680 So you went from the hatchery to the school. 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:32.639 And then in the school you were raised apart from 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.000 your parents and not like day to day like I 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.239 mean you see your parents for a couple hours, maybe 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:38.680 every few weeks, once a month. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:40.079 Some kids went years. 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.000 And it was a tough place to grow up because 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.760 essentially what they created, and I don't think they chose 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.760 to create this on purpose, but they created, you know, 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.320 an orphanage. We were raised by people we didn't know. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.800 We were handed off from different people months years of 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.200 our lives where we don't really know who raised us. 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:00.760 And Sinadam was a place we went to get clean 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.440 off of heroin or alcoholism, I guess to some extent, 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:06.679 but mostly heroin. And so people were like two three 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:09.400 weeks off kicking heroin and suddenly thrust into the school 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:10.360 in some role or another. 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.960 How many kids more or less were in the school 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.360 during the time that you were there, Yeah. 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:19.440 I think all told, there was maybe four hundred kids 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:23.919 that came through, and at any given moment, I think 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.040 at its height, maybe one hundred, one hundred and fifty 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:27.760 were with the most. 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:29.000 Ever, at one time. 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:33.400 We were raised just to believe that the society was 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.440 our parent, and I think that the thinking was in 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.000 this kind of like backwards culting nineteen seventies kind of 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:40.720 way of thinking, was that like, well, this way the 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.400 parents won't pass off, you know, their cycles of violence 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:45.880 and trauma and addiction to their kids. 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:47.960 But of course it just meant we were orphans. 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.080 Just meant that we didn't have basic people who loved 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:52.600 us and took care of us. I mean there was 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.800 no birthday celebrations, there was no Christmas or hunting or 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:56.440 anything like that. 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.360 Certainly no extended family. 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:03.600 And you're brother, Tony was also, Yeah, he's three years older. 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:05.360 I was in the lower school, he was in the 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:06.080 upper school. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.520 I think the upper school was a lot rougher than 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:11.800 the lower school. I think that's where they were particularly 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:14.800 lax about who interacts with the kids and what the 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.760 interaction and supervision of the children were. And I mean 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:22.160 every kid was abused, every kid was beaten, every kid 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:24.120 was humiliated. 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.880 Just about every kid was molested. I mean, you name it. 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.839 So we escaped when I was very young, and we 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:31.880 did have to escape, and this woman showed up. So 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.480 we're in this like world of everyone shaved heads and 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:39.799 overalls and boots, and you know, one day, this woman 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.919 shows up who we understand is our mom. But the 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.919 term doesn't have much particular meaning to us because we 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:47.159 don't really know what a mom. 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.200 Is, right, Do you understand each other to be brothers? 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:50.640 Yeah? 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:52.000 I think we did, but we didn't really know what 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:52.440 it meant. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.920 You know, we just knew we were brothers, and I 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:57.800 think it was just kind of this vague term, just 0:04:57.839 --> 0:04:59.600 like mom was or dad was. We didn't really know 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:01.479 what any terms meant because there was no sort of 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.640 traditional family structure. So one as she shows up and 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:06.359 she says, all right, it's not safe here and we 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.120 have to leave because the place had started to practice violence, 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.119 which you know, it started as a non violent place. 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:13.960 And we left. We kind of escaped in. 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:17.480 The early morning into a car where my grandfather was waiting. 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.680 From there, you know, it was just so so odd. 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.440 We'd never seen a skyscraper before, we'd never been in 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:25.440 a restaurant before. 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:26.440 We didn't know what, you know. 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.680 We went from there, we were in Marine County, went 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.800 from there to Oakland, well San Jose, and then at 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.400 Berkeley and Oakland, and just like we had never seen 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.080 any of these things before, and it was it was 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.640 just such a bizarre world to the world just seems 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.280 so big. We've been on this dirt road leading to 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.359 the compound and we'd gone into town before. I guess 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.160 there's a town in Tamas Bay nearby the compound where 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:49.640 we were, and. 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:51.760 That was about that was the big city for us. 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:53.800 It was like a main street with one stop with 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.000 one stop light, and then all the kids, all of 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.640 us were just you know, with shaved heads and overalls 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:00.600 and all the towny kids stay or not is because 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.200 I think we probably looked like weird CULTI kids, which 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:04.360 I suppose we were. 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.119 But you know, it wasn't our choice, it was our parents' choice. 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.600 So I think it was always just kind of confusing 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:10.640 for us. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.520 Mckel ends up living with his grandmother and grandfather, people 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:17.960 he had never met before. 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:20.960 They were very well off. 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.960 My mom had been raised in the Hague in Holland 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.119 and you know, raised by nannies, and my grandfather owned 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.440 a shipping company and they were well to do family. 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:31.440 And she was like, you know, the. 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.840 Hippie that sort of defied all expectations and rebelled against 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:37.239 the society that they'd raised her among. 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.120 I think she was kind of angry and a bit 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:39.919 of a utopian. 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.280 I'm probably just kind of a damaged kid because also 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.000 my grandmother was just a raging drunk just I don't 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.320 know if I'd ever seen or sober in my whole life. 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.800 She was always drunk by like eleven Am, and of 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.880 course resented that her daughter had become, you know, this hip. 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.680 She had been a free speech activist at Berkeley and 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.240 that eventually ended up in this utopian cult. So there 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:02.960 was a lot of tension over that. And you know, 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:04.719 at the time also we were living on the run. 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:07.280 We were told that the men, the bad men from 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.080 Synonam were coming to get us. The society thought that 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:12.960 she had kidnapped us because we weren't her kids. We 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.680 were Synanon's kids, and so we were always on the 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.320 lookout and we were never allowed to play outside because 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.680 who knew if these bad men were going to come and. 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:22.239 Take us away. 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.960 Michel's family is not alone in their escape from Synanon. 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.680 His mom's friend, Phil Ritter, a free speech activist and 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:34.480 anti nuclear activist, has also escaped, and after a short 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:38.239 while staying with his grandparents, Mickel, his mom, and brother 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.520 relocate to live with Phil in his apartment in East Oakland. 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.400 One day, the apartment is broken into. They're not sure 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:47.760 if it was the bad men of Synanon who did it, 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:50.600 but they are scared, and they decide to move together 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:51.679 to a house in Berkeley. 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:57.000 Phil he had a daughter that lived with us as well, 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.640 and we all moved into this house. Again, we weren't 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.800 allowed to go outside, and he built a little playroom 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:05.800 for us in the garage. And I wouldn't say it 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:07.680 was quite a father figure, but he was. He was 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:09.920 a good guy, you know. He was kind to the 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:13.680 kids and a nice human being and just like the 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.720 gentlest soul you'd ever meet. We'd spent a lot of 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.040 time playing indoors and listening for the kids on the 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.120 street as they played, which is kind of heartbreaking. 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:22.480 We knew who the kids. 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.000 Were by like the sound of their bikes or what 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.080 game they were playing. And meanwhile, we're like locked in 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.760 this garage. So one day I guess my brother rebellious, 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:31.640 like I'm gonna go outside no matter what, and he was. 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:33.679 He was playing with the kids across the street. It's 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:35.679 like one of the rare days. He actually got out 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:37.800 and I was on the porch and Phil had gone 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:41.480 to get some groceries in his van. He had a 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:44.880 VW bus like any good hippie, and he came back 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.160 and I was on the porch and he closed the 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:50.840 door to his van and there was these two kind 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:54.040 of shadowy figures that came up behind him, and they 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:55.720 were these two men and they had these like flesh 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:58.439 colored masks on, you know, like nylon, like the way 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:02.200 bank robbers have over their faces. And it all happened 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:03.760 so quickly. I was just like, who are those guys? 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:05.600 And it was almost like is it Halloween? Are they playing? 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.160 Address up? I think it might have been my first 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:11.240 lovege thing. And one of them hit him over the 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.480 back and he fell on the ground, and then they 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.800 just started beating them. They had these two they had 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:18.920 clubs in their hands. They weren't like baseball bats. They 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.400 were like police clubs, batons kind of things, maybe a 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:26.440 little bit bigger. And we started screaming and bleeding, and 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:30.000 I hid behind the column on the porch and they 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.120 just wailed on them in the driveway and they straightened 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.360 up and said, you know, wor's McKell and Tony. And 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:38.199 then Tony was with all the kids because all the neighborhood 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.120 kids had sort of come to watch, and he was 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.120 across the street. But none of the kids knew our 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.200 name because we were just always hiding in the garage, 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.439 so nobody said anything, and eventually, you know, a neighbor 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:51.880 lady came out and told her told him to leave, 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.920 that she'd called the police, and they left, and then 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.440 the ambulance came and they took Phil away and he 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:58.439 was in a coma. 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.000 For about a month. And it was weird. I remember 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.480 just like catching like eyes with him. 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:07.000 He had this real sort of kind face and before 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.400 he passed out, like I was kind of peering out 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:11.480 from behind this column and I could see his eyes 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:12.880 and they were looking at me. And I remember the 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.719 expression on his face because there was there was like 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.040 a stillness to it after he sort of stopped screaming 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.079 and just kind of resigned to it, I guess. And 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:22.880 he told me later that all he was thinking about 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:24.280 at the time was that this is too much for 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:26.040 a kid Michael's age to witness. 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:27.839 Like what a good guy, right, I mean, the. 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:31.319 Thing that he was concerned about was was because he's 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.200 being beaten nearly to death, was he didn't want me 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:35.560 to have to see all this violence. 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.520 Yeah, I mean, one of the things that really strikes 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:44.800 me about your story is that this group of adults 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.959 in your life that includes both your parents and the 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.439 various people who came in and out of your life. 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.400 I mean, there were some doozies, but it also had 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:59.160 some very kind people who probably are a large part 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.600 of why we're even having this conversation. And you know 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:04.280 why you ended up in one piece. 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.320 Yeah, if I saw a tweet the other day somebody 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:10.959 said I'd never join a cult, and I wanted to 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.360 write in back, like, no shit, nobody thinks they're joining. 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:15.560 Nobody. 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:18.680 People in cults don't know they're in cults. And my 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:23.760 parents thought they were in a nonviolent drug rehabilitation society, 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:25.280 which is kind of how it started. It was just 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:27.120 trying to get addicts clean and it did a pretty 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:28.720 good job of doing that, saved a lot of people's 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.480 lives first, and then you know, but then you isolate 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.360 people and you start getting groups think going, and then 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.880 there's kind of like this quirk of human psychology that 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.120 they tend to line up behind very often a narcissistic 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.480 and abusive man or whatever. And that's what happened in 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:47.000 our case. And it's not as if these people are 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:48.440 all trying. 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:48.800 To do mean things. 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.360 And definitely, you know, a difficult relationship with my mom 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:54.280 she you know, some ways in which I think she 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:56.439 maybe wasn't prepared to be a mother. But I don't 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.120 think she meant any harm to us, and she in 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.160 her heart wanted was best for us, and certainly my 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.280 dad did you know they meant well for us. They 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:06.760 just didn't know, you know, And looking back with hindsight, 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.720 it's very easy to pinpoint mistakes. I don't think they 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:12.719 were trying to do anything bad, particularly to the kids. 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.720 After the incident of Phil's beating, Michel's mom decides to 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.320 move her kids from this environment too. Once again they're 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.720 on the run. She gets a job at the state 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.280 mental hospital in Salem, Oregon, so that's where they'll sleep 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:29.720 and hide next. 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:34.280 I remember when we left and we packed up the 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.600 old white Vega that she'd gotten from my grandfather, and 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:39.080 we packed and head to Oregon. 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.360 I remember it was a rainy day and it was 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:41.719 just this. 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.960 Feeling in the air, like Man, we lost, Like I 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:46.080 knew it, even at that age. 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:46.880 I knew like Man. 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.079 Reagan was president, who was like the old nemesis for 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.440 my mom's free speech days at University of California, And 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:53.440 like Man, the. 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:54.520 Hippies just lost. 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:56.760 The cult hat devolved into violence, and then we would 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.800 fill again beaten, and everything has just kind of fallen apart. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.400 It's like we went to Salem, Oregon to hide. 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:03.840 That was the feeling. I knew it. Then. We were 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:04.319 going to hide. 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:05.920 We're going to get on the other side of the mountains, 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:07.480 to this other part of the world, and we're going 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.440 to be safe from all this madness. 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.040 It's a pretty hard scrabble existence for the family in Salem. 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:18.760 Mckel and Tony are left on their own a lot 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.800 and there's never enough to eat. On the morning of 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.160 Michel's sixth birthday, when he wakes up, his dad is 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:26.439 sitting on the edge of his bed. 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.040 So I'd always been told about my dad that, you know, 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:31.640 he was he left us for a tramp. 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:33.880 That was the line I'd always heard my mom. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.320 Dad left us for a tramp, because I guess he'd 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:40.280 remarried fairly quickly after he and my mom got divorced. 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.240 And you know, I'd always been told what a selfish 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.080 person he was, or how he wasn't there for us, 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.000 or how he'd left us, which is never how I 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:48.679 felt about him. You know, we would see him when 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:50.400 we were in Cinna, and he was just the warmest 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:52.640 guy and the kindest guy, and just this one of 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:54.960 these guys that when you're around him, you just feel good. 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:56.640 And you know, we were last key kids with a 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.440 single mom in Salem, Oregon, and it's tough to be 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:00.720 a single mom anyway. 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:01.640 But we were broke. 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.520 I mean, we were living on powdered eggs and government 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.600 cheese and we would wait in the food line at 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:09.959 the church, at the food bank. We were on food 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.439 stamps and just just had no no money or anything. 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.520 And then you know, when you're the child of a 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:16.400 single mom, particularly you're a boy, you live in this 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.480 like hall of mirrors where there's like everyone says, well, 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.520 you're the man of the house, as if it's this 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.400 good thing, and you're like six, you know. 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.000 You're like, oh cool, I'm not ready for that at all. 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:27.040 Thanks thanks for letting me know. 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.760 And I think there's this like maternal fantasy of like 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:31.320 who you're going to become? 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.840 Like are you going to become one of these bad 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.840 men who leave? Or are you going to become like 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:38.680 one of these good men who are going to stick around? 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.000 And I always remember getting that up so much. It 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:42.880 was kind of heavy for my mom, it's. 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.200 Probably more than you know. It was really appropriate. 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.760 But you know, we were always around women, so we 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:49.760 knew the world of women really well. We could hear 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:51.800 my mom talking to her friends about like she's just 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.000 trying to date someone, just trying to find a good man, 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:55.720 just trying to have a man around. Just hope this 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:57.880 one works out, hope this guy is good. And then 0:14:57.920 --> 0:14:59.760 of course my father, who left, was the love. 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.200 Of her life. And we knew the world. 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.120 Of tears and vulnerability and trying to make ends meet. 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.120 And every son, daughter or two of a single mother 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:10.280 knows this world, right, and that's where we were. 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:11.920 And then here comes our dad. 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:17.720 And our dad is like the most masculine, funny guy, 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:19.880 and he'd flown up from Los Angeles for one day 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:21.000 for my sixth birthday, and it. 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:21.680 Was just like magic. 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.040 It was like, oh my god, here's this tall guy. 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:26.280 I could walk down the street next to him and 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.520 he just felt like having your own private God. 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:29.440 Like it was just like. 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.920 I've got a Zeus and it's a it's a dad. 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:33.800 And there was a lot of single mothers and a 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:35.400 lot of last key kids on our street, and it 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.600 was just like the kids that would like bully us 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:38.320 and make fun of us. 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:38.680 Whatever. 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.920 Was sort of like like slink down a little bit, 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:43.880 like hello, sir, because we had a dad and he 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.680 could like throw a baseball across the entire you know, 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.400 baseball field, or he could eat a whole pizza or whatever, and. 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.240 He could swear, and he was so good at swearing 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:52.760 and didn't care about swearing in front of us. 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.320 And this was just like mind blowing to us because 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.040 we just never we'd never been around men. We just 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:00.640 knew the world of women, and you know, you as 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.320 a boy, like, am I going to become one of 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:02.920 those things? 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:05.280 Is that what I'm going to be? And which kind 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:06.440 of am I going to become? 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:12.440 Yeah, it was very touching the way that you write 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:17.240 about studying him, trying to memorize him, trying to memorize 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:21.280 his mustache and memorize his you know, like the width 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:22.160 of his shoulders. 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:24.840 Yeah, he had a walk, he had like a dip 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:25.480 to his wak. 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:27.680 You know, he was kind of a beat nick. He 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.480 wasn't quite a hippie, a littler than that, you know, 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:32.160 but he'd been in jail and out of jail. I'm 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.200 being a professional criminal for a while. But he could dance, 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:35.640 you know what I mean. You know, he had a 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:37.920 swagger to him, and I had never seen anything like 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.240 this before. And he'd sit down and he'd say these words, 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:45.280 and he'd be like that asshole Reagan, like he I 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.960 never heard of Reagan refer to anything other than that asshole. 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.120 Like I thought Reagan's first name was that asshole. So 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.360 I was like twelve years old, like it was just 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.040 always that asshole Reagan, that son of a bitch Nixon, 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.240 that fucking carburetor. Like I remember him talking about his 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:00.000 old truck and I didn't even know what a carburetor was. 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.040 I just would nod my head, be like, that's right, Dad, 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:02.920 it's the fucking carburetor. 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.160 That's you, and that's the word. And then suddenly that's 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.320 the word for carburetor, right right. 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.080 And I would make it up because you know, you're 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:10.640 just trying to make up the man you think you're 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.760 going to become at that age. So i'd you'd be like, yeah, listen, mom, 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.280 something's wrong on my skateboard. I think it's the fucking carburetor. 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:18.800 But you know, you're just inventing. It's trying to imagine 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.959 the men we're going to become as we kind of 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.920 invent them from pieces of the men we have around us. 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.320 And that first, the first visit from your dad was 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:29.640 it was twenty four hours and then he was gone. 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:31.160