Speaker 1: We saw a lot of people. There was a wide
Speaker 1: kind of location casting people around the United States, and
Speaker 1: out of Dallas. We got a picture of this guy.
Speaker 1: He walked in. It's lou Diamond Phillips. He's a big,
Speaker 1: tall guy and he starts reading Bob and you know,
Speaker 1: he just it didn't it didn't work, It didn't click. Louise,
Speaker 1: who's got a great nose, you know, He goes, you
Speaker 1: know what, I know this sounds crazy, but I think
Speaker 1: he could play Richie. So Louise calls him. He said,
Speaker 1: lou listen, this is a movie called Lababa about a
Speaker 1: guy named Richie Valence. We'd like you to read for
Speaker 1: that role. And lou goes, what, I'm Bob, I'm reading
Speaker 1: for Bob. He said, yeah, we know, come back tomorrow
Speaker 1: and let's see what you can do. And he came back.
Speaker 1: He read it and we looked at each other and
Speaker 1: Louis said, that's my Rigie.
Speaker 2: Welcome to More Than a Movie, a podcast that gives
Speaker 2: you a behind the scenes look at your favorite movies.
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Alex Fumero. Last season we did a
Speaker 2: deep dive on American met This season, I'll focus on
Speaker 2: a different movie each episode feature interviews with the biggest actors, directors, writers,
Speaker 2: and producers behind them and tap into the history of
Speaker 2: Latinos in film. There's a few schools of thought in
Speaker 2: Hollywood when it comes to improving diversity in front of
Speaker 2: and behind the camera. One school says who cares? Basically
Speaker 2: may the best man win the job, and in that
Speaker 2: case it usually is a man. They're usually white, straight, answis,
Speaker 2: and it's not because they're the best at the job.
Speaker 2: The second school says, only X people can tell X stories.
Speaker 2: If you're black, only you can tell black stories. If
Speaker 2: you're Latino, only you can. This strategy, which has been
Speaker 2: the dominant strategy for the last ten years or so,
Speaker 2: works some of the time as executives are terrified of
Speaker 2: being accused of prejudice, but it hasn't made the kind
Speaker 2: of impact on the numbers some had hoped for.
Speaker 3: Not only does that.
Speaker 2: Start to get into some weird territory when it comes
Speaker 2: to how people want to identify versus how they're seen,
Speaker 2: but it's also wholly impractical. Hollywood is first and foremost
Speaker 2: a business, and that business abores risk, So taking a
Speaker 2: chance on a first time filmmaker or an unknown actor
Speaker 2: scares the shit out of the powers that be, and unfortunately,
Speaker 2: the people with the most experience, the least risky people
Speaker 2: tend to not be marginalized people, so the cycle of
Speaker 2: white guys continues. There's a third school of thought, however,
Speaker 2: which I'll call the Ally model. The Ally model essentially
Speaker 2: requires a benevolent, white, straight male CIS person, usually who
Speaker 2: has clout and a desire to tell a good story
Speaker 2: that happens to feature a person or people who are
Speaker 2: not like them, to use their clout and influence not
Speaker 2: only to get that story made, but to help marginalize
Speaker 2: people get opportunities they otherwise wouldn't You've seen this model
Speaker 2: at work with people like Brad Pitt, who produced two
Speaker 2: Academy Award winning black films in Moonlight and Twelve Years
Speaker 2: of Slave, or even Steven Spielberg committing to casting actual
Speaker 2: latinos and not some Greek guy in brown face in
Speaker 2: the remake of West Side Story. Unfortunately, these examples are
Speaker 2: few and far between, but today I have with me
Speaker 2: someone who has done this multiple times over his career,
Speaker 2: producer and director Taylor Hackford, who, coming off of a
Speaker 2: massive box office hit in An Officer and a gentleman
Speaker 2: decided to use his heat, his political capital in Hollywood
Speaker 2: to make a film about a relatively forgotten, a critically
Speaker 2: important character in rock and roll and Latino history, Richie Allens,
Speaker 2: and instead of directing it himself, he act Luis Valdez,
Speaker 2: a Chicano legend in the theater world, but someone who
Speaker 2: the studios hesitated to give a big budget to.
Speaker 3: For the big screen.
Speaker 2: First of all, Taylor Hackford, thank you so much for
Speaker 2: being here with us. This is a podcast dedicated to
Speaker 2: Latino movies. You are not Latino, but a lot of
Speaker 2: people may not realize that you're a soul cowboy. You
Speaker 2: were born in Santa Barbara, California. I wonder if you
Speaker 2: could tell us a little bit about Taylor Hackford as
Speaker 2: a kid.
Speaker 3: And the kind of community he grew up around.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, my mother I was raised. I was
Speaker 1: a single mother. She was a waitress. She worked in
Speaker 1: you know, restaurants around Santa Barbara, and when I was
Speaker 1: really young, you know, she couldn't afford daycare, so I
Speaker 1: went and I would hang in the kitchen and you know,
Speaker 1: the the dishwashers, the bus boys, all the people were Latino,
Speaker 1: so they spoke Spanish all the time, so I somehow
Speaker 1: got this language in my head. And you know, when
Speaker 1: I grew up, I was working class. I know, my
Speaker 1: mother was a waitress and a lot of my friends
Speaker 1: were Chicanos, and that's just kind of my background. So
Speaker 1: I felt an affinity and that kind of came into
Speaker 1: FOURD later on when I went to La right.
Speaker 2: And a lot of people don't think about the fact
Speaker 2: that Santa Barbara has like a working class section because
Speaker 2: you just associated with these grand Spanish style mansions and
Speaker 2: all the rest of it. But a lot of your
Speaker 2: friends growing up were Chicano and I wonder, you know,
Speaker 2: we're here to talk about the movie La Bamba. I
Speaker 2: think you were about twelve thirteen when that song comes out.
Speaker 2: Do you remember when that song came out and the
Speaker 2: impact that it had on your friends and on you
Speaker 2: and on that community.
Speaker 1: Of course, it was on top forty radio. It was
Speaker 1: a rock and roll song. Richie Vallens basically took a
Speaker 1: traditional Mexican folk song and put a rock and roll
Speaker 1: beat to it and roll guitar. And it's his arrangement
Speaker 1: of La Bamba that's so important, because you know, you
Speaker 1: got a top forty radio. When do you have a
Speaker 1: song in Spanish get into the top ten? It doesn't happen.
Speaker 1: So it was groundbreaking. And it was not like, oh gee,
Speaker 1: I'm political, I'm you know, I know, man. It was
Speaker 1: just it was a great rock and roll song. It
Speaker 1: was part of your culture as a teenager in California.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you didn't in those days. But you speak
Speaker 2: Spanish now right.
Speaker 3: You you did not, Okay, see glad ogay? See did
Speaker 3: that upbringing that experience.
Speaker 2: Inspire you to go to the Peace Corps, go to
Speaker 2: Bolivia and learn Spanish. You seem to have quite an
Speaker 2: affinity for Latin culture, and so I'm curious, you know
Speaker 2: what kind of fuels that for you?
Speaker 1: You know, when I went to college, I went to
Speaker 1: college in Los Angeles and I went to USC, but
Speaker 1: it was it's Vietnam. I graduated and I joined the
Speaker 1: Peace Corps. And if we're going to join the Peace Corps,
Speaker 1: the whole idea was, you know, why not go someplace
Speaker 1: where you could learn Spanish and use it later. My
Speaker 1: experience in Bolivia was fascinating, and you know, obviously I
Speaker 1: got much more out of it than the Bolivians. But
Speaker 1: as an American it's very, very valuable to kind of
Speaker 1: encounter and understand the way the majority of the world lives.
Speaker 1: So it was a big experience for me, and I
Speaker 1: did learn Spanish there. That whole experience was a life
Speaker 1: changer for me. You go live in the third world,
Speaker 1: you live with people who are not blessed with all
Speaker 1: the stuff that you had as somebody who grew up
Speaker 1: in America, and so now you can never think of
Speaker 1: the world in the same way.
Speaker 2: That's really interesting. It makes you sort of question what
Speaker 2: America is. And so this sort of redefines like the
Speaker 2: place that you grew up. And you come back and
Speaker 2: you work in public television and you start getting into
Speaker 2: the music scene, right, you start working on some music programming.
Speaker 1: No two things. Yeah, I'm a child of rock and roll,
Speaker 1: So I grew up with rock and roll, and I
Speaker 1: taught a history of rock and roll class at the university.
Speaker 1: At that time, there was no uninterrupted popular music or
Speaker 1: rock and roll on television anyway, going back to the sixties,
Speaker 1: I went in and started doing journalism and did you know,
Speaker 1: the public TV station we didn't have lots of money
Speaker 1: like the commercial stations, but we did have equipment and
Speaker 1: we went out and covered the community. So, you know,
Speaker 1: the guy who I worked for was Mexican. His name
Speaker 1: Eddie Moreno, and Eddie Moreno was a serious journalist. He
Speaker 1: really cared about a journalism and he imbued that in me.
Speaker 1: But also because he was Mexican and Latino, he was
Speaker 1: interested in what was happening in LA I came out.
Speaker 1: I came back from the Peace Corps sixty nine. I
Speaker 1: started working in the mail room of KCET. Eddie gave
Speaker 1: me a shot and so we started covering East Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: I was a reporter. I was covering it. I covered
Speaker 1: some really interesting things. The thing about great it was
Speaker 1: great for me about KCET, the Public Televitis station, is
Speaker 1: that it was my film school. I didn't go to Philmo.
Speaker 1: I didn't go I went to Peace Corps, came out,
Speaker 1: and the great thing that I had is airdates. You know,
Speaker 1: I had to get something done and put it on
Speaker 1: the air. It's like in film school you got one
Speaker 1: project a semester. I had it every week, three times,
Speaker 1: four times a week. So in the daytime I worked
Speaker 1: as a journalist. At that night I would do music shows.
Speaker 3: It was great, how So.
Speaker 1: Once I got out of the mail room and I
Speaker 1: started being a producer and a reporter. There was a
Speaker 1: friend named Heyesustravigno. He was a producer there and a
Speaker 1: really smart guy, and he was Chicano. He was doing reporting.
Speaker 1: I mean, Eddie Marina and I were going out and
Speaker 1: doing this, but Hazeus was doing his own thing, and
Speaker 1: you know, we became really good friends, and I started
Speaker 1: hanging with him and seeing he did a show. It's
Speaker 1: one thing that I think is important, which is to
Speaker 1: do with lebamba. We're talking about when I was training
Speaker 1: for the Peace Corps, training at Fresno State up in
Speaker 1: the middle of California, and we went out for a
Speaker 1: field trip and we went to a place called Del
Speaker 1: Rey where Caesar Chavez was organizing the farm workers and
Speaker 1: the political arm. Theater political arm of Caesar Chabas's movement
Speaker 1: was that Diatto compesino, that's right, And I went there.
Speaker 1: I spent two days there and I met Luis Valdez
Speaker 1: when I was like twenty two.
Speaker 2: Luis Valdez, for those who don't know, as I mentioned earlier,
Speaker 2: was and is a legend in the world of Latino theater.
Speaker 2: Aside from being an organizer in the fields with Caesar Chavis.
Speaker 2: He also created a place called zut Suit that launched
Speaker 2: or inspired the careers of dozens of Latino and Chicano
Speaker 2: actors that are still working today, including the subject of
Speaker 2: our entire season one, Edward James. Almost so it's a
Speaker 2: big deal and shows that he's a real motherfucker that
Speaker 2: Taylor was even fucking with Louise to begin with.
Speaker 1: And I was training for the Peace Corps and here's
Speaker 1: this guy who you know, it was tough. I mean,
Speaker 1: Luis is tough, and he was taking his love of
Speaker 1: theater and did doing at Jet Prop Theater in the
Speaker 1: fields with farm workers and against the growers. And listen,
Speaker 1: you know, the growers were not taking it nicely. At night.
Speaker 1: There were people, you know, coming by and shooting. You know,
Speaker 1: Luis's was toughened by the politics of the fields and
Speaker 1: he was very close to Caesar Chavez. So I met.
Speaker 1: It wasn't for very long, you know, a couple of
Speaker 1: days that I hung there, but I met this guy
Speaker 1: and I went, wow, this is a smart, dedicated, committed
Speaker 1: political guy and also an artist. So that was an
Speaker 1: important part. Then when I was at KCT. Later he Sustavignho.
Speaker 1: He was a journalist and of a documentary filmmaker, but
Speaker 1: he wanted to do a music show with a young
Speaker 1: artist named Danny Valdez. Danielle Valdez. He was the younger
Speaker 1: brother of Luis, and he did this show called America
Speaker 1: de los Indios and he wrote these songs. He's a singer,
Speaker 1: guitar player and unbelievably talented. And I saw this show
Speaker 1: and I went, she WHOA, this guy is great. And
Speaker 1: Danny and I, you know, became really close friends. I mean,
Speaker 1: Danny and I bonded and we were like ermanos and
Speaker 1: we just hung and you know, would talk about things
Speaker 1: and on, and Danny was so talented. I remember one
Speaker 1: night we were over to friend's house and we were
Speaker 1: drinking beers and talking and said, you know, we should
Speaker 1: do a film about Richie Vallence. You know, because Richie
Speaker 1: Valence is Chicano. He had this great voice. You got
Speaker 1: a voice as good as his, and this whole story
Speaker 1: could be really cool. So Danny and I are like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be the filmmaker, You're going to be
Speaker 1: the star, and we're going to do this film. Of course,
Speaker 1: neither one of us had a pot to piss him.
Speaker 1: We're like nobody's right, and nothing came of it. But
Speaker 1: there was a desire and a sense that Danny was
Speaker 1: inspiring me and had all the talent to do it. Well.
Speaker 1: Cut ten years later, all right, I go and I
Speaker 1: make my first feature called The Idol Maker, and then
Speaker 1: made my second feature called An Officer and a Gentleman,
Speaker 1: which was a huge international hit, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden my stock in Hollywood, because when you do a
Speaker 1: hit movie, people go Taylor, who, yeah, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: I get a phone call, it's Danny, and Danny says, hey,
Speaker 1: I got two words for you, Richie Valens. Now's the time.
Speaker 1: And he was right. But the problem is, when I
Speaker 1: first met Danny, he was a young punk like I was.
Speaker 1: You know, ten years later he's in his thirties. He's
Speaker 1: not really right for Richie anymore. Right, But it was
Speaker 1: Danny beldas an e who developed LaBamba. We went to
Speaker 1: Hollister and then we went to Watsonville and we met
Speaker 1: Connie Valezuela and we got the rights to Richie's life.
Speaker 1: That talk about an interesting thing, you know.
Speaker 2: The other thing that's super interesting. Is this commercial you're
Speaker 2: about to hear. I have no idea what it is,
Speaker 2: and they put it in after, but trust me, it's interesting.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to More Than a Movie. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Alex Fumeto. In a later episode this season, you'll hear
Speaker 2: our interview with Louis Valdez about his work on LaBamba
Speaker 2: and zoot Suit. And when we spoke to him, he
Speaker 2: told us about meeting Taylor Hackford for the first time.
Speaker 2: Here's Taylor's version.
Speaker 3: Of that story.
Speaker 2: So we spoke to Luis Valdez for a while and
Speaker 2: he told us, you know, we talked to him about
Speaker 2: suit Suit and obviously developing that. He talked about meeting
Speaker 2: you when you came to visit the United farm Workers
Speaker 2: and Detre Cambecino, and he talked about how he and
Speaker 2: Danny would talk about La Bamba also, and you know,
Speaker 2: this is like a common thing. Everybody always wonders how
Speaker 2: projects come to be, and like, you know, people just
Speaker 2: like you know, it's kind of circulates or whatever.
Speaker 3: But well, the important.
Speaker 1: Thing here is you understand, and I understand Luis Valdez
Speaker 1: is a great artist. Yeah, Luis Feldez is La Bamba, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: But in terms of the chronology. Danny and I talked
Speaker 1: about it a long time before. This is an intellectual
Speaker 1: he's international theater, He's this and that. He's a he's
Speaker 1: a heavyweight. So Danny and I were talking. We got
Speaker 1: the rights from Connie, and now it's a question of
Speaker 1: all right, we got the rights, but we're going to
Speaker 1: do the film. I said, we should go to your brother, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I mean fun he did zutsuit. I mean, Louise
Speaker 1: defined Chicano theater in California. He's an important, I think,
Speaker 1: intellectual mind. Yeah, so Danny goes, but see it's the
Speaker 1: younger brother, older brother. Danny goes, oh no, no, Luise
Speaker 1: is never going to do this. So why he goes, no,
Speaker 1: it's not going to do it because he's too elevated.
Speaker 1: You know, he's got his head in the clouds. He
Speaker 1: does he's in I said, Luis Valdeza spent his life
Speaker 1: defining the Chicano experience on the stage in California. This
Speaker 1: is Richie Valence man. This is a kid, a working
Speaker 1: class kid who has a number one hit in America.
Speaker 1: So we go to Louise and he kind of goes,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I know about Richie, and
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the point is that we convince
Speaker 1: Louise to write the screenplay.
Speaker 2: And how do you go about that? This is more
Speaker 2: of a producer question, right, Your career is unique, and
Speaker 2: you are unique in that you know, some projects you're like,
Speaker 2: this is mine to direct, and then other projects you're like, no,
Speaker 2: I really am passionate about this. I want to produce it,
Speaker 2: but there's other folks who are the right kind of
Speaker 2: voice or vehicle for it.
Speaker 3: So you go to a guy like Louis Feldez.
Speaker 2: Is immensely talented, who is, like you said, that's kind
Speaker 2: of the definitive voice of Latino theater. And then you
Speaker 2: know who has made this kind of foray into film
Speaker 2: through Zootsuit, which was kind of like a mix between
Speaker 2: a feature and the filming of a live stage production.
Speaker 3: Right, and how do you go h This is a
Speaker 3: two part question. We'll start with the first part, which
Speaker 3: is how.
Speaker 2: Do you convince Louise and then later how do you
Speaker 2: convince the studio system that's typically very conservative that this
Speaker 2: guy is the right guy this movie?
Speaker 1: Well, this is how it came about. I mean, once
Speaker 1: I kind of said to Luis one you got the
Speaker 1: freedom to tell this story. I mean, it's a great story,
Speaker 1: and it's what you've been doing your whole life after
Speaker 1: Santase State and going through talking about Latinos busting into
Speaker 1: the American culture. Lucie Valence did it, so he got it.
Speaker 1: But then you know, we realized I had a deal
Speaker 1: at Columbia Pictures. They wanted me after an officer and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: I went there. I made against all odds, I was
Speaker 1: doing films for them.
Speaker 2: What does that mean? You have a deal in those days? Right, Like,
Speaker 2: does that mean you have green light power?
Speaker 3: Or like what is it?
Speaker 1: Well? No, right, no, you don't have green light power.
Speaker 1: But what you do is that they give you money
Speaker 1: to have an office and you hire development people and
Speaker 1: you go out and you develop material. Because that's the
Speaker 1: way it used to work. You would go out and
Speaker 1: you would if you were inspired by something and you
Speaker 1: had had success, they said, well, I'll take a roll
Speaker 1: of the dice.
Speaker 3: With this guy.
Speaker 1: And I went out and I developed La Bamba, and
Speaker 1: the guy who ran it was really important. The guy
Speaker 1: who ran Columbia Pictures was a guy named Guy Macawin,
Speaker 1: and he was the president of production. He had grown
Speaker 1: up as a minor league baseball pitcher. He was from California.
Speaker 1: He grew up he remembered LaBamba and I had a
Speaker 1: good relationship with him. I said, I'm going to develop
Speaker 1: this film about LaBamba. I remember that song. Oh yeah, man,
Speaker 1: that was a great idea. I said, well, it's going
Speaker 1: to be two things. It's going to be inexpensive. Two,
Speaker 1: it's going to be a Latino film, which a whole
Speaker 1: Hollywood doesn't deal with. I said, there's a huge population
Speaker 1: out there, gigantic, and Hollywood is interested in going out
Speaker 1: and selling tickets. And I said, this whole audience you're missing.
Speaker 1: He said what I said, Latinos they go to movies
Speaker 1: all the time. Nothing is made for them. This is
Speaker 1: the story of their life, Richie Vallence. So he said,
Speaker 1: go ahead and develop it. So when I went to
Speaker 1: Louise and I convinced him. I said, hey, man, I'm
Speaker 1: going to be the trojan horse here. You know, we're
Speaker 1: going to go in and we're going to get this
Speaker 1: film made because I've got a deal, and you're going
Speaker 1: to do the script. I didn't promise him that he
Speaker 1: was going to direct. I said, I want you to
Speaker 1: write the script. But I'm not going to tell you
Speaker 1: what to write. I have huge respect for you. I
Speaker 1: know that this means something to you. You know, go write.
Speaker 1: And Louise said, yes, nothing can get done unless you
Speaker 1: write a good script. Louise killed it. He did this
Speaker 1: great story because he knew he's writing about his life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he wrote this script about Richie and Richie's family and
Speaker 1: about Bob, his brother, an important role because he's the oldest.
Speaker 1: He's the guy, but he's really talented artist, but he's
Speaker 1: bashing up against white culture and you know, he's a biker.
Speaker 1: He's thrown in jail. Bob. When I met him, it
Speaker 1: was like, you know, you had this beautiful story about Richie,
Speaker 1: but he's Everybody that talked about Richie was like, Richie's
Speaker 1: so wonderful. His mother had this altar for him in
Speaker 1: her living room. It's like, you know, he's the perfect guy.
Speaker 1: Then we met Bob and go, oh, okay, now we're
Speaker 1: in good shape because you got the good brother and
Speaker 1: the bad brother. And that always says an interesting story
Speaker 1: with a mother trying to keep him, you know, in
Speaker 1: the middle. And Louise saw that and he wrote a
Speaker 1: fabulous script. Well, people in the movie business understand a
Speaker 1: good script when they see it. So I turned the
Speaker 1: script in Louise has done it, and they go, wow,
Speaker 1: this is great. Who's going to direct it? I said,
Speaker 1: Luis Valdez is going to direct it. They said, what
Speaker 1: you didn't tell us that. I said, listen, the guy's
Speaker 1: a director. He did zuit suit. He is a substantial guy,
Speaker 1: and I think he needs a shot. And let me
Speaker 1: say this. You see that you like this script. You
Speaker 1: know why you like it. It's really beautifully done, but
Speaker 1: it also is a voice in and the voices of
Speaker 1: Chicano culture, and you need a director who understands what's
Speaker 1: on the page and even more. And I said, you know,
Speaker 1: I'll produce the movie and I'll back Louis up, but
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean I'm going to direct the movie. I'm not.
Speaker 1: He's got to direct it, and believe me, he's that strong.
Speaker 1: So we made this partnership and Guy Macawayne at Columbia said,
Speaker 1: you're right, okay, go We've had three and a half
Speaker 1: million dollars that we made LaBamba with and at the
Speaker 1: time it was you know, that's still a lot more
Speaker 1: money than most people had. Yeah. Yeah, Anyway, my point
Speaker 1: at that point was just to back Louise up. When
Speaker 1: I say that, I mean back him up in the
Speaker 1: sense of his vision in the script, his vision in
Speaker 1: the film, and just make sure he's protected.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm curious on that point because you know, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: and this is a big reason why I wanted to
Speaker 2: talk to you, Taylor, because I consider you a very
Speaker 2: important figure in the kind of recent history of Latino film,
Speaker 2: and that is because Latinos have unfortunately not had that
Speaker 2: many allies outside of Latino's really pushing for their stories.
Speaker 2: And so I'm curious when you so some of the
Speaker 2: things that you did in the eighties with this film,
Speaker 2: I think those learnings still apply to what's going on today,
Speaker 2: because we really haven't come as nearly as far as
Speaker 2: you would have thought, you know, from La Bamba. And
Speaker 2: so I'm wondering when you're selling a Luis Valdez right like,
Speaker 2: I'm sure you know you were aware of all the
Speaker 2: you know, beyond just the farm worker stuff. But then
Speaker 2: when you're talking to the studio execs, are those the
Speaker 2: kinds of experiences that you like, how do you sell
Speaker 2: them on?
Speaker 3: Luise?
Speaker 2: Are those types of experiences you're bringing to them or
Speaker 2: what is it that they respond to that makes them
Speaker 2: go Okay, Taylor, you're right, Louise is the how do
Speaker 2: you position him?
Speaker 1: No, I I you know you have a good relationship,
Speaker 1: guy Macwhen and I were close number one, number two,
Speaker 1: I made him money. Yeah, when you're ahead of a
Speaker 1: studio and they said, okay, you make a film, I
Speaker 1: go out and I make him money. Then he feels like,
Speaker 1: you know, I can trust this guy. And I said
Speaker 1: to him, listen, this is smart. You know nobody is.
Speaker 1: There's a big audience. Nobody knew it. By the way
Speaker 1: I said, there's a big audience here. These people aren't stupid.
Speaker 1: It's an audience that nobody is covering. You can do it.
Speaker 1: I'll make sure the film is done cheaply enough that
Speaker 1: it's not going to kill you. Number one, number two.
Speaker 1: If we're really going to speak to that audience, you
Speaker 1: think a Gavachro can do it? I mean, pardon me.
Speaker 1: You know, in reality, since this you need something authentic,
Speaker 1: and you're reading a script that is authentic. You're reading
Speaker 1: a script written by a guy who knows what he's
Speaker 1: talking about, and you love the script. Well, he can
Speaker 1: direct this movie. He can direct actors. He's directed actors
Speaker 1: on stage. He comes out of the theater, you know,
Speaker 1: Mike Nichols came out of the theater who gave him
Speaker 1: a shot to direct a movie. And I'm gonna be there.
Speaker 1: I won't be directed in the movie. Guy understand it.
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it because I can direct the movie.
Speaker 1: I direct movies. I'm going to be a producer, a
Speaker 1: good producer. So if Louise needs something, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be there. And in one area I was able to
Speaker 1: help because I shot a lot of music. Remember back
Speaker 1: at KCT, I shot music. Now Louise had not shot music,
Speaker 1: he understand, So the musical sequences of Lebamba he was
Speaker 1: still in charge of. But I set the cameras, you know,
Speaker 1: because I knew what to do. But he's still you know,
Speaker 1: lou Diamond Phillips up on stage. It's Louise talking to him,
Speaker 1: not me. But I did help there. But the reality
Speaker 1: is Guy trusted me.
Speaker 2: Which is a producer's job, right, Like you're sort of
Speaker 2: like change hats whenever the director whoever needs you. It's
Speaker 2: not like you're stepping on his toes, you know, that's
Speaker 2: like part of helping him.
Speaker 1: No, no, I listen. I had a lot of respect
Speaker 1: for Louise, and second of all, Louise is a he's
Speaker 1: a man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a tough guy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, step on Louisvilldez's toes.
Speaker 3: He wouldn't allow it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he'll kick back. It was respectful, and I had
Speaker 1: respect for Louise.
Speaker 3: He h.
Speaker 1: You know, I think understood that I was there to
Speaker 1: try to make the best film and then let's let's
Speaker 1: get to the selfish part of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I thought, Hey, nobody's done this. We can make a
Speaker 1: great film, and if we make a great film, will
Speaker 1: sell lots of tickets and we'll have a hit movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, that's what you do when you produce a movie, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd bought Richie Vallen's catalog from Connie, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't like a ripoff. I said, Connie, how much
Speaker 1: money you're making per year?
Speaker 3: And she told me.
Speaker 1: I said, if I make this movie, you make ten
Speaker 1: times that off the royalties. And I did, and she did.
Speaker 1: I had a great relationship with La Conca, with Connie Venezuela.
Speaker 3: Who I've heard also is a tough, tough cookie, but.
Speaker 1: Oh is amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you.
Speaker 2: Know, but that touches on two points that I think
Speaker 2: are important to what's going on today.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: One of those is that it has to be a business.
Speaker 2: You know, and this is a theme that I think
Speaker 2: we're seeing over and over again in this podcast. You know,
Speaker 2: the folks that I'm interviewing who are successful in what
Speaker 2: they do, who are Latinos or working in the Latino space.
Speaker 2: You know, diversity initiatives and the kind of like identity
Speaker 2: politics of it are important, and we need to keep
Speaker 2: sort of that social conversation going. But Louis said this,
Speaker 2: You know, money is green, and that's the color that
Speaker 2: the studios care about, and you really have to make
Speaker 2: it a business proposition for them. And that seems like
Speaker 2: something you were keenly aware from the beginning. But you
Speaker 2: also did something that I think needs to be highlighted,
Speaker 2: which is you burned political capital for this. Right When
Speaker 2: I ask you, how did you get them to accept
Speaker 2: Luis Valdez, what I'm hearing you say is I told
Speaker 2: them I believe in this guy.
Speaker 3: You believe in me.
Speaker 2: We have a relationship. You trust me so and I
Speaker 2: trust him. Without that, nothing is going to change, right, right,
Speaker 2: And so you know, sometimes I'm frustrated. I see great
Speaker 2: directors make great movies today, you know, and then they
Speaker 2: have an opportunity to sort of do there, darling, the
Speaker 2: movie people don't want to let them make and they
Speaker 2: choose to make a movie about, you know, them being
Speaker 2: a thirteen year old white kid growing up wherever. And
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is a lost opportunity you could have
Speaker 2: grabbed somebody else, and and that is what you did.
Speaker 2: You came off of directing this, and you chose to
Speaker 2: tell instead of saying, like, I'm going to tell this
Speaker 2: story about me, you know, growing up in Santa Barbara.
Speaker 2: You're like, no, Richie fucking Valance, Like, that's the story
Speaker 2: I want to tell. You know, at the time, were
Speaker 2: you thinking like, you know, I want to make this
Speaker 2: like a whole business. Do I want to produce like
Speaker 2: a slew of Latino movies? Or were you looking at
Speaker 2: as like one thing at a time, Like did you
Speaker 2: sort of see it as like this is a business
Speaker 2: for my company or was it just about this film?
Speaker 1: No, I think that you got to start somewhere. I mean,
Speaker 1: LaBamba was the first film I produced outside of directing.
Speaker 1: I produced and directed my movies but this was a
Speaker 1: producing job and I did it because I believed in it.
Speaker 1: But I also believed it could be successful. And you
Speaker 1: know what, it was unfortunately. I mean, it is still
Speaker 1: the highest grossing Latino film in Hollywood history. I mean,
Speaker 1: but come on, it was what thirty years ago, twenty
Speaker 1: five years ago? I mean it should have been you know,
Speaker 1: it should have flowed from there once Hollywood smelled there's
Speaker 1: money out there in this community. I mean, we broke
Speaker 1: a lot of ground at the time. You know who
Speaker 1: owned Columbia Pictures. Coca Cola. Wow, And I said, God,
Speaker 1: if there's anybody who knows how to market to Latinos,
Speaker 1: it's Coca Cola. Yeah, I mean, they know who drink
Speaker 1: Coca Cola in market. We actually got Coca Cola to
Speaker 1: do displays in supermarkets for the Bamba brilliant. You know,
Speaker 1: we were marketing. It was great. Secondly, we released and
Speaker 1: I don't know too many films in Hollywood that it ever was.
Speaker 1: We did day and date with English and Spanish prints.
Speaker 3: Which is so ahead of its time.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like it's I would say it's ahead
Speaker 2: of its times that people don't do it now, But
Speaker 2: it's like so brilliant.
Speaker 1: We did twenty five percent of our business. If they're
Speaker 1: to prove it, we did twenty five percent of our
Speaker 1: business and we opened well in Spanish only prints. That
Speaker 1: says it all, doesn't it. I mean twenty five percent.
Speaker 1: We ended up by making I think fifty five million
Speaker 1: bucks domestic. But you know, at the same time that
Speaker 1: was domestic, that was just in the United States for
Speaker 1: a little three million dollar movie. That's a good profit
Speaker 1: for Columbia Pictures.
Speaker 2: But then Taylor Hackford, person who understands Hollywood and has
Speaker 2: worked in this business for decades.
Speaker 3: Why didn't it keep going? What happened? Because this happens
Speaker 3: all the time.
Speaker 2: Every ten years, there's some big success and then it
Speaker 2: just fizzles.
Speaker 3: I can't understand. I can't explain it.
Speaker 1: It has to do with understand. You know. It's funny
Speaker 1: I said, I went and got the rights with Danny.
Speaker 1: I mean, Luis knows the family dealt with everybody, but
Speaker 1: we got the rights. And the big deal about going
Speaker 1: to the rights when you walk into a wood woman's
Speaker 1: house and you walk in and you see in the
Speaker 1: living room an altar with Richie Valen's face on it,
Speaker 1: and Jesus and the Virgin. There it is, and you
Speaker 1: realize he died at seventeen and a half. And she's
Speaker 1: got this homuch. I had to say to her, Nita, listen,
Speaker 1: you love your Richie. I understand that. I appreciate Richie.
Speaker 1: I'm not directing this. We haven't done the script yet,
Speaker 1: we haven't anything. But I'm going to make sure it
Speaker 1: has integrity, and Bob's going to be a character in
Speaker 1: all those things. But you cannot have control. Okay, you
Speaker 1: cannot have control because I need to make a great
Speaker 1: movie and you love your baby, and you're gonna say no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, And I can tell you right now if
Speaker 1: you don't give me control. This really now came down
Speaker 1: to she and I then, in fact, I'm going to
Speaker 1: walk out of here. We're not going to do it.
Speaker 1: And she trusted me. We had this relationship. She trusted me,
Speaker 1: and I believe I never ever betrayed Connie Venezuela. My
Speaker 1: relationship was to her. Now Luis's was later on too.
Speaker 1: Understand that's an important step because by all rights, when
Speaker 1: they made Selena Listen, they had Jennifer Lopez. She was fantastic.
Speaker 1: They had a great story an incredible story. But you
Speaker 1: know what, they went and the producer went and said, oh,
Speaker 1: Selena's father, he has final say. You know right there,
Speaker 1: I knew right there it's over. They should have killed us.
Speaker 1: They should have had one hundred million dollar movie or
Speaker 1: two hundred million dollar movie because Selena had just died.
Speaker 1: She was huge. It's traumatic. She's got all these great
Speaker 1: records out. But the moment you let La familia because
Speaker 1: you know what, A can't say that. You can't say this,
Speaker 1: you can't do this. You can't do this. In La
Speaker 1: Bamba we have you know, Bob takes his younger brother
Speaker 1: to Tijuana. They go into a whorehouse bar and that's
Speaker 1: where Richie hears La Bamba. That's where he hears the song. Now,
Speaker 1: Connie in the long run said fine. But if I
Speaker 1: said to Connie, Connie, I'm gonna take Richie down into
Speaker 1: a whorehouse at Tijuana, she was absolutely not not my Ritchie.
Speaker 1: But Louise, by the way, Louise did it. Louise put
Speaker 1: it in the script, he knew how to direct it,
Speaker 1: he did all those things. Richie still came out of it.
Speaker 1: Sweetest guy in the world does Yeah, But it was real,
Speaker 1: and he here's Lebama, and of course we had Los
Speaker 1: Lobos on stage doing the original folk version of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Richie thieves it and goes in. But see that
Speaker 1: scene where I went to Connie and said, you got
Speaker 1: to give me control. That's why Selena did not kill us. Selena,
Speaker 1: by all right, should have killed us. But when you
Speaker 1: saw the film, there was something missing. There was like
Speaker 1: the father going, oh, you can't say this, Oh you
Speaker 1: can't do that, and so everybody kind of went, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, pardon me, I don't I hope that. No.
Speaker 2: No, it's rumored to be the issue with even the
Speaker 2: most recent series that was done on Netflix, where you know,
Speaker 2: again this is rumor, but you know that they went
Speaker 2: through three different iterations of all of the scripts for
Speaker 2: the show as a result of the family's involvement. But
Speaker 2: I guess what my question for you then is, you know,
Speaker 2: my big question mark is the La Bamba was the success?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Was the This model is the highest grossing and yet
Speaker 2: it did not lead to an explosion of Latino film.
Speaker 2: It's been thirty six years since LaBamba. Right, you proved
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighty seven that there's a business model for
Speaker 2: this right, yes, So then.
Speaker 3: What's the obstacle?
Speaker 2: What is Hollywood not understanding and what are we not understand?
Speaker 2: What am I, as a Latino filmmaker, not understanding about,
Speaker 2: you know, how to make this happen?
Speaker 1: I think that this is the great question. I mean
Speaker 1: the fact that thirty six years later, that Lebamba hasn't
Speaker 1: been beaten time and time and time again at the
Speaker 1: box office. It just it's tragic, it is. I think,
Speaker 1: going back to what we were talking about, you can't
Speaker 1: leave it to executives. Executives like Guy mac owain could
Speaker 1: never have made this movie. I mean they're executives and
Speaker 1: they're not creative. You know what happened in LaBamba. I
Speaker 1: got an artist, Luis Laldez, who was strong, had a vision,
Speaker 1: had a point of view, and was an artist. I
Speaker 1: was an artist, so I'm supporting him. And I had
Speaker 1: enough clout to go to the guys at the studio
Speaker 1: and say, no, stand back, trust me, all right, you're
Speaker 1: not gonna waste much money, but trust me, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have I had final cut. See Louise didn't have final cut.
Speaker 1: I had final cut. But so what I still made
Speaker 1: his movie? Yeah, he got to make his movie. But
Speaker 1: the interesting thing was that I, as an artist, understood
Speaker 1: you got to be tough, but you also have to
Speaker 1: understand the audience gets it. The audience has a as
Speaker 1: a nose, and they smell when it's authentic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they smell bullshit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think Lebamba was authentic and that's why
Speaker 1: it was successful. I mean, in this instance, I went
Speaker 1: out on a limb. I basically said, trust me, I'm
Speaker 1: going to go do this and you're not going to
Speaker 1: be hurt badly. But if I fuck up, it's me.
Speaker 1: You don't have to renew my deal. It's me. I'm
Speaker 1: backing up Luis Valdez. But what you cannot do is
Speaker 1: ameliorate this material. Then you really got nothing. So I
Speaker 1: think that you know, I'm not patting myself on the back.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I don't want to blow smoke up
Speaker 2: your ass, Taylor, but I'm telling you, I wish to
Speaker 2: God more producers work were like you today. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's like, we need this. This is what we need
Speaker 2: is somebody to walk into the room and go, I'm
Speaker 2: putting me on the line for this, so do it right,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, yeah, it's necessary. It's it is
Speaker 2: that hard to get these movies made that you need
Speaker 2: that it is.
Speaker 1: What it is. And I think Louise understood that I
Speaker 1: was there for him. I was there and by the way,
Speaker 1: you know, realize his brother was one of my best friends,
Speaker 1: you know, Danny. He played Memo. He played the uncle
Speaker 1: of Ritchie in the film. He was the associate producer.
Speaker 1: But remember it all started with he and I having
Speaker 1: been talking about him playing Richie.
Speaker 3: Well, Louis was very clear.
Speaker 2: I mean, Louise, one has an immense amount of respect
Speaker 2: for you to you know, talked a lot about your
Speaker 2: sort of background in music, also being instrumental, and three
Speaker 2: that this movie just wouldn't have gotten made, and Connie
Speaker 2: would have never given anybody the rights had someone like
Speaker 2: you not been there to get them and get involved
Speaker 2: and make it happen. Right, So he's you know, he
Speaker 2: was pretty clear about all that stuff.
Speaker 1: It's the understanding of that and at the same time,
Speaker 1: my understanding that as a filmmaker I was not the
Speaker 1: right guy to make this movie. I wasn't and he was.
Speaker 1: And therefore my job as a producer is to push
Speaker 1: and protect, get everybody out of his way and let
Speaker 1: him make the movie, which he did and did brilliantly.
Speaker 2: I am not Taylor Hackford, so I can't protect you.
Speaker 2: Sadly from this next commercial break, we'll be read back.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to More Than a Movie. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Alex Fumato, and I'm speaking to Taylor Hackford about casting
Speaker 2: a young spunky Filipino kids a Chicano rock icon, and
Speaker 2: why Lou Diamond Phillips was the best choice for the role.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about lou Diamond Phillips. How did you
Speaker 2: happen on lou Diamond? You know, in today's day and age,
Speaker 2: people will say what you couldn't find one Latino kid.
Speaker 2: They could have, you know, sang and dance and done
Speaker 2: all that. But you know the way Louis sort of
Speaker 2: framed it. I mean, this seemed like you guys cast
Speaker 2: a pretty wide net and you landed on a guy
Speaker 2: who today is a pretty famous you know, it's had
Speaker 2: a pretty big career.
Speaker 3: So talk me through that casting decision again.
Speaker 1: My job is to support Louise, and we had a
Speaker 1: great casting director named Judie Lowry, who is a fabulous
Speaker 1: casting director. She went on to do a lot of
Speaker 1: big shows and we went through the Latin community. But
Speaker 1: you know, Richie's got to sing, he's got to dance.
Speaker 1: And we saw a lot of people. There was a
Speaker 1: wide kind of location casting people around the United States
Speaker 1: and out of Dallas. We got a picture of this
Speaker 1: guy and he came in for Bob and he came
Speaker 1: from Dallas. He came in, he walked in. It's loud,
Speaker 1: Diamond Phillips. He's a big, tall guy and he starts
Speaker 1: reading Bob and you know, he just it didn't it
Speaker 1: didn't work. It didn't click. Louise, who's got a great nose,
Speaker 1: you know, He goes, you know what. I know this
Speaker 1: sounds crazy, but I think he could play Richie. And
Speaker 1: I go, yeah, you may be right. I don't know.
Speaker 1: He said, why don't we try it. We haven't any
Speaker 1: lux so far. So Louise calls him. Louise calls lude
Speaker 1: back in. He said, lou listen, this is a movie
Speaker 1: called Lababa about a guy named Richie Valley. We'd like
Speaker 1: you to read for that role. And lou goes, what,
Speaker 1: I'm Bob, I'm reading for Bob. He said, yeah, we know.
Speaker 1: Here's the script. I want you to go home tonight
Speaker 1: and we want you to read this, these pages, these scenes,
Speaker 1: come back tomorrow and let's see what you can do.
Speaker 1: And he came back. He read it, and we looked
Speaker 1: at each other and Louis said, that's my Ritchie. That's
Speaker 1: my Ritchie. That's the way these things work. You know,
Speaker 1: it changed lou Diamond Phillips career is life. He changed ours.
Speaker 1: We finally had somebody who worked right. So these are
Speaker 1: great casting stories that kind of work, and it's interesting,
Speaker 1: I mean, how things change. We were looking for Bob.
Speaker 1: We needed a great Bob. Well, a guy came in
Speaker 1: named Jesse Borrego who's a fabulous actor, and he was
Speaker 1: on a TV series called Fame. And again Luis goes there,
Speaker 1: he is, that's great. So you know, again I'm following
Speaker 1: what Luis likes. We go and it's been on for
Speaker 1: three seasons. It was going off. They had one episode
Speaker 1: left and Jesse was just dancing in an episode and
Speaker 1: the producer said, no, he's not free. I called it
Speaker 1: the producer and I said, hey man, you know one
Speaker 1: thing I learned early on. You know, actress, they have
Speaker 1: such a fucking hard time in life. They never get
Speaker 1: a chance. This role of Bob Venezuela and this movie
Speaker 1: is great. You have one left and he's dancing. I'll
Speaker 1: work about the schedule.
Speaker 3: Let's do it.
Speaker 1: The guy says, no, he's not. I thought, fucking asshole, asshole,
Speaker 1: you have destroyed this guy's possible career because you know
Speaker 1: what it is hard for you know how hard it
Speaker 1: is for Latina. They get a great role that's not
Speaker 1: a drug dealer. So he said no, Well, lucky for us.
Speaker 1: Essi Morales was the next guy that came through the door.
Speaker 1: And honestly, Esi was a brilliant bob. He was fantastic,
Speaker 1: and you get lou Diamond Phillips in Eastside. They had it.
Speaker 1: So anyway, the casting process is just as important as
Speaker 1: the script. And again this is all under Luisveldez's guidance. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he really knew what was doing. Well.
Speaker 2: I think you hit on something that's a core to it, right,
Speaker 2: which is that you need somebody who is this sort
Speaker 2: of filter for authenticity. Right, and that's least that Danny,
Speaker 2: his brother who worked with you.
Speaker 3: On the film.
Speaker 2: Right, And then it opens things up a little more.
Speaker 2: And I'd be curious to know you've been working in
Speaker 2: this business a long time and I think sometimes the
Speaker 2: perfect can be the enemy of the good. But like
Speaker 2: when you're casting, you really do have to think about
Speaker 2: what's going to sell this fucking movie, you know, but
Speaker 2: like what's going to sell this right? Do you think
Speaker 2: sometimes we do ourselves a little bit of a disservice
Speaker 2: by being too purest about you know, this person has
Speaker 2: to be from here, And.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I believe you give
Speaker 1: I always believe it. I don't care who I'm casting.
Speaker 1: You give the role to the best actor. Yeah, take
Speaker 1: the role to the best actor, and if they're really great,
Speaker 1: they'll make it believable. Isi Morales made you believe he
Speaker 1: was a Chicano. You know, Lizabeth Pena, whose Cuban made
Speaker 1: you believe she was Chicano. On the other hand, we
Speaker 1: had total authenticity, you know. I mean, listen there, I
Speaker 1: was a producer, producing job different than directing. And you
Speaker 1: know I hired the writer, you know, Danny and I,
Speaker 1: but I hired his brother. You know, Louise happened to
Speaker 1: do a great script that we wouldn't have been able
Speaker 1: to go forward. None of us would have meant anything
Speaker 1: if Louise hadn't done it. Luis then made sure that
Speaker 1: he was the director because I trusted his nose. But
Speaker 1: as a producer, I did have a lot to say.
Speaker 1: And I think that my feeling for Chicano's my sense
Speaker 1: that I grew up with them. You know, that was
Speaker 1: a sense of respect, you know that, you say, I
Speaker 1: can be part of this, and I'll make sure I
Speaker 1: never had to worry about. I got Louis Veldez there.
Speaker 1: He knows what's real and it's not. He knows what's
Speaker 1: Chicano what's not. I'm not sitting there, you know, as
Speaker 1: a producer going gee, Louis, I'm not so sure this
Speaker 1: is He's lived it, he was it. So that was
Speaker 1: an important, you know, part of what I was doing,
Speaker 1: and that's what producing is about. You try to you
Speaker 1: try to line it up around a subject that I
Speaker 1: knew because again, at its core, Richie Valens is America,
Speaker 1: Richie Valence is Chicano. It's the Latino culture which infuses
Speaker 1: this country. And uh, I knew that it was a
Speaker 1: great story. That's what you do, and I believed it
Speaker 1: all the way through and tried to make it happen
Speaker 1: again with Louis Veldez.
Speaker 2: Well Taylor Hackford. I think that's a great place to end.
Speaker 2: I just want to say, you know, I wish my
Speaker 2: message out there for all you successful non Latino actors, writers, directors,
Speaker 2: producers is please be more like Taylor Hackford.
Speaker 3: And I help you. Uh you have a great rest
Speaker 3: of your week, and uh we'll go from there.
Speaker 1: Thanks Alex.
Speaker 2: Next week on More Than a Movie. Way before she
Speaker 2: was giving feminist speeches in Barbie, America Ferrara was giving
Speaker 2: them as an angsty teenager in the critically acclaimed film
Speaker 2: Real Women Have Curves, we'll speak to Patricia Cardoso, the
Speaker 2: director who gave America Ferrera her first starring role on
Speaker 2: the big screen. More Than a Movie. Season two was
Speaker 2: produced by Chloe Taglia Ganbe with the help of Reynolds
Speaker 2: Gutierres and Veronica Hernandez in partnership with Iheartsmichael Tura podcast network,
Speaker 2: hosted by me Alex Fumetto, edited by Rose Reid and
Speaker 2: Chloe taglia Ganbe with the help of Saida Cavedo. Executive
Speaker 2: producers are Carmen Gratto, Rose Reed, Isaac Lee, and me
Speaker 2: Alex Flumetto. Sound designed by Gonzalo Messi. Original music by
Speaker 2: Golden Mines Darko and I Am recorded at JTB Studios
Speaker 2: and Vaudeville Sound. Our executive producers at iHeart are Giselle
Speaker 2: Bansis and Arlene Santana. For more Michael Dudda podcasts, listen
Speaker 2: to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 2: your favorite shows.