Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the
Speaker 1: Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan runtalg but
Speaker 1: enough about me, my guest today is one of the
Speaker 1: most beloved singer songwriters of all time. For over half
Speaker 1: a century, his music is served as the soundtrack for
Speaker 1: growing up and leaving home in pursuit of self discovery
Speaker 1: and inner truth, whether performed by himself or a host
Speaker 1: of artists including Dolly Parton, Rod Stewart, Patti LaBelle or
Speaker 1: Lynda Ronstat. Songs like Peace Train, Moonshadow, the First Cut
Speaker 1: is The Deepest and Wild World all bear his trademark
Speaker 1: sincerity and spiritual curiosity. He began his career as a
Speaker 1: swinging London teen idol, notching baroque pop hits like Matthew
Speaker 1: and Son and Here Comes My Baby. The sophisticated melodies
Speaker 1: quickly earned him a reputation as one of the most
Speaker 1: precocious minds in music, and hey, his handsome Mediterranean features
Speaker 1: looked good on Team Beat magazines too. Are a time
Speaker 1: he ran with the likes of Jimmy Hendrix and the
Speaker 1: Walker Brothers, but the hard living rock and roll lifestyle
Speaker 1: soon caught up with him. After a bout of tuberculosis
Speaker 1: landed him in the hospital. He began to embrace some
Speaker 1: more stripped down sound and lifestyle. He emerged that the
Speaker 1: dawn of the seventies as a folk tings troubadour, equal
Speaker 1: parts mature and mischievous, beguiling fans with his musical missives
Speaker 1: from his metaphysical journey. It made him a global superstar.
Speaker 1: It His gargantuan material success left him with more questions
Speaker 1: than answers in the search for inter fulfillment. A near
Speaker 1: death experience while swimming in the Pacific precipitated a spiritual awakening,
Speaker 1: which led him to adopt the Islamic faith in seven.
Speaker 1: For many years, he rejected the entertainment industry and the
Speaker 1: songs that had used to touch so many, Taking the
Speaker 1: name Yusuf Islam, he sold his guitars and dedicated the
Speaker 1: next three decades the theological study and charity work. The
Speaker 1: new millennium marked a gradual reconciliation with both Western music
Speaker 1: and his own legacy. He's released four albums of new
Speaker 1: Western music, and in recorded a reimagined version of his
Speaker 1: breakthrough nineteen seventy album T for the Tillerman. Now he's
Speaker 1: overseeing a massive reissue project. He's most recently revisited nine
Speaker 1: seventy ones, Teaser and the Fire Cat with a mammoth
Speaker 1: four disc box set featuring unreleased tracks, unheard demos, and
Speaker 1: rare live performances. It'll be followed on February twenty two
Speaker 1: with the soundtrack to how Ashby's coming of age cult
Speaker 1: film Harold and Maud, which is being made widely available
Speaker 1: for the first time, complete with nine songs and dialogue
Speaker 1: from the movie. Many fans thought they'd never see the
Speaker 1: day when he returned to the songs they love so well,
Speaker 1: and it's been a joyous homecoming for all concerned. I'm
Speaker 1: so happy to welcome to the show. Josef kat Stevens.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, and I have so many things I
Speaker 1: want to ask you about, but I guess to start.
Speaker 1: Caesar in The Fire Cat was released in one very
Speaker 1: pivotal point in your journey. Can you take me back
Speaker 1: to that time. I mean, where were you at personally
Speaker 1: and spiritually? Uh, well, personally, I was, you know, engaged,
Speaker 1: very engaged with my music. Um on one level, Um,
Speaker 1: that was the the outward you know, sort of if
Speaker 1: you like existence. Um. But but within me. I had
Speaker 1: already started u my spiritual journey, you know, sometime back
Speaker 1: after I had recovered from tuberculosis, and that was in
Speaker 1: and and so I was also on a very uh
Speaker 1: you know, deep search forum for meaning and so, and
Speaker 1: that of course came out very very um you know
Speaker 1: clearly in my music and my lyrics. Um you could
Speaker 1: you could see them all all the thoughts that I had,
Speaker 1: and all all the fears and all the hopes, um,
Speaker 1: you know, all transparent within my music. I mean this
Speaker 1: in en seventy one was just after Teeth of the
Speaker 1: tilement went, you know, completely global and must have changed
Speaker 1: your life immeasurably. I mean, you had success in England
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven, but now you've gone from playing
Speaker 1: clubs like the Gaslight in Greenwich Village to playing Carnegie Hall.
Speaker 1: What was your relationship like to this this new level
Speaker 1: of fame at that time? Was it thrilling? Was it unnerving?
Speaker 1: Or was it all the above? Um? Well, I'd reached
Speaker 1: a certain plateau and you know, I don't see that
Speaker 1: there was anything hindering me from going even further. You know,
Speaker 1: that was that was what that was a kind of
Speaker 1: state of mind I was in um t for the
Speaker 1: Turnamoun was done, you know, but there was a high
Speaker 1: level of expectation for the next album, and of course
Speaker 1: most most of my concentration went into my songs, you know,
Speaker 1: my my, you know. The the touring was kind of
Speaker 1: less important for me, but it was important to kind
Speaker 1: of connect. But at the same time, what I was
Speaker 1: really doing was was writing and recording. That was my world,
Speaker 1: and then we revealed it, you know, during during the
Speaker 1: concerts and during the tours. So yeah, I kind of
Speaker 1: I didn't want to repeat till a man in a way,
Speaker 1: I could never do that, and um, you know I
Speaker 1: had to. He still had a lot of songs left
Speaker 1: over because during my convalescence after the hospital, I was
Speaker 1: writing so many songs. I had about twenty five songs
Speaker 1: to kind of fill out more or less three albums,
Speaker 1: you know, from the very beginning, Um someone finished, you know,
Speaker 1: some needed fixing and but some I needed to write more.
Speaker 1: So that's that was my whole, you know life at
Speaker 1: that time. It was I was very excited by the
Speaker 1: fact that people are really listening to me, and and
Speaker 1: I had an audience, you know, and and that's always
Speaker 1: what I think drives you, you know, I mean, if
Speaker 1: you if you're alone and in the desert, nobody's listening,
Speaker 1: you know why I sing another song that That was
Speaker 1: exactly what I was actually going to ask him. Always
Speaker 1: this question is going to completely give away the fact
Speaker 1: that I've never written the song of my life. I'm
Speaker 1: so curious for people who are are blessed with the
Speaker 1: ability to write music, what compels them to do it?
Speaker 1: Is it a desire to connect with other people? Or
Speaker 1: is it to get something out of you? And if you,
Speaker 1: you know, would you write the same number of songs
Speaker 1: if you were alone on the desert island? But it
Speaker 1: sounds like for you it's more for connecting, Um it
Speaker 1: is it is. It's a well first of all, you know,
Speaker 1: you go back to the tradition and you see that
Speaker 1: there are these trooper doors, you know, trooper doors kind
Speaker 1: of like they entertain people. They entertained the king, you know,
Speaker 1: only abody to get it right, you know, otherwise the
Speaker 1: shop so um so. And not only that, but it
Speaker 1: was a re attractive vocation, you know, so definitely you
Speaker 1: attracted a lot of female attention. And that was good too.
Speaker 1: You know, you could see the image of the trooper
Speaker 1: door singing up to the balcony and she's kind of
Speaker 1: leaning over. So there's that kind of romantic side to
Speaker 1: which was like the I suppose one of my first incentives, um,
Speaker 1: but not just that I loved music. I mean I
Speaker 1: loved music. Problem was, um, I couldn't really seeing other
Speaker 1: people's songs. It took too long to learn, like the chords,
Speaker 1: and I was still kind of getting my way and
Speaker 1: finding my way with the guitar and then the lyrics.
Speaker 1: So you know, I just started writing my own and
Speaker 1: I felt I had a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: things and a kind of a different and a new
Speaker 1: unique angle to perhaps you know, to to convey. So
Speaker 1: that's why I started writing songs. And it was because
Speaker 1: I did have My first audience was of course my family,
Speaker 1: and my mother was my number one fan, you know,
Speaker 1: and you really need that encouragement. Um in the beginning.
Speaker 1: For sure, if if if I listened to my brother,
Speaker 1: I would not be, you know, the person I was,
Speaker 1: because he just didn't have any confidence and he said
Speaker 1: go back to art, you know. So Um, because I
Speaker 1: was an artist originally I wanted to be an artist.
Speaker 1: So so it was that confidence I was getting from
Speaker 1: my mother and from my sister, and then my brother
Speaker 1: joined in. You know. Um, so so when you start
Speaker 1: rolling and then you find that people actually like your
Speaker 1: your music, and you know, and when I started writing songs,
Speaker 1: first of all, I was hoping to be a songwriter
Speaker 1: before I was thinking about singing my songs myself, you know,
Speaker 1: becoming a you know, a sort of protege of the
Speaker 1: pop music business. I wasn't interested in that. I wanted
Speaker 1: to write songs, but then not everybody could get around
Speaker 1: my lyrics, around my style love. You know, music was
Speaker 1: slightly odd and angular and some of the timings were
Speaker 1: like weird, so therefore I had to kind of sing
Speaker 1: them myself. And but when people did sing my songs,
Speaker 1: I was lucky to get a few hits in the
Speaker 1: very early stages, because here Comes My Baby was a
Speaker 1: song which um was kind of I signed it over
Speaker 1: to this one of my first publishers, and they got it,
Speaker 1: you know, um to the Tremelos. I know, you had
Speaker 1: a massive hit in the in the States with that,
Speaker 1: so you know, that really gave me confidence. And then
Speaker 1: of course it was all rolling on from there. A
Speaker 1: few years back, you released but I think was the
Speaker 1: first song you ever wrote, Mighty Peace on the album
Speaker 1: Laughing Apple. And it's just so astonishing to me they
Speaker 1: think that that was your first song, and yet I
Speaker 1: mean lyrically, it's so sophisticated and there's so many themes
Speaker 1: on it that you touch on throughout your work. It's
Speaker 1: just amazing that that a song mighty piece was your
Speaker 1: starting point when you first begin writing songs. Was there
Speaker 1: a specific message that you in your mind that you
Speaker 1: wanted to to get a cross? Um? Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I think I wrote a song which kind of explained
Speaker 1: it um on the album called is It So? And
Speaker 1: and the song is called I Never wanted to be
Speaker 1: a Star? Well that wasn't quite true, but you know,
Speaker 1: um there was that instinct to want to be a
Speaker 1: star and a superstar why not? But but no, there's
Speaker 1: the lyrics say, you know, I never wanted to be
Speaker 1: a star, tongue in cheek. Um, I only wanted a
Speaker 1: little bit of love so I could put a little
Speaker 1: love in my heart. And that's kind of like actually
Speaker 1: it was the truth of the matter, was you know
Speaker 1: that there is a kind of, um, a relationship, but
Speaker 1: a loving relationship between the singer and the listen and
Speaker 1: the listener whoevers you know, enjoying the music at the time.
Speaker 1: Um and so um, So I think that I was
Speaker 1: looking for appreciation, for acknowledgment, for recognition, and and the
Speaker 1: things I had to say. We're interesting for a lot
Speaker 1: of people because I, as I said, I came from
Speaker 1: a slightly diverse background and and a unique background. When
Speaker 1: when you're writing, do you get more inspiration looking outward
Speaker 1: or looking inward? Well, I think both are important. But
Speaker 1: of course outwardly, Um, you still perceive the world through
Speaker 1: your inner prison, you know, of of of the self.
Speaker 1: You see it through this glass which we call the soul,
Speaker 1: you know. And and and if you are a little
Speaker 1: bit empty in that department, then you might want to
Speaker 1: kind of you may want to go for the world
Speaker 1: a little bit more, you know. And and so there's
Speaker 1: this kind of balance between you know, trying to achieve
Speaker 1: something outwardly, but really are you are you achieving it?
Speaker 1: Is it really making you happy? All those questions, you know,
Speaker 1: have to be asked and and of course they're not
Speaker 1: quite answered. But when when you want to um, when
Speaker 1: you analyze it, I mean listening to to teaser in
Speaker 1: the fire Cat. I mean, there's there's so much wisdom
Speaker 1: on that album, and it's incredible to think you're only
Speaker 1: what three when you wrote about these philosophical questions that
Speaker 1: you're grappling with. Listening back to it now for you
Speaker 1: with with so much more life experience, are you impressed
Speaker 1: in a way or are there feel things that you
Speaker 1: feel you got right or I guess on the flip side,
Speaker 1: any things you feel you got wrong on some of
Speaker 1: the lyrics on the album. I think I've got a
Speaker 1: lot of things kind of out of me, and I
Speaker 1: think that was the most important thing. Was that was
Speaker 1: to get it out, to break out of my kind
Speaker 1: of shell, because you know, I was a little bit
Speaker 1: of an intro I think you have to be in
Speaker 1: a way. An artist wants to express himself, he can't
Speaker 1: do it any other way than through his art. And
Speaker 1: I think that was it. Um. So I wanted to
Speaker 1: to express and I did. My words became very, very translucent,
Speaker 1: and you could you could see exactly who I was.
Speaker 1: I wore my heart on my sleeve, as I say,
Speaker 1: you know, so that um and there was nowhere else
Speaker 1: to hide. When I was writing my songs, I didn't
Speaker 1: really want to hide anyway. So it was very frank.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, there was this inspiration which
Speaker 1: came which I don't feel as if I'm totally responsible
Speaker 1: for that because there were so many great things going
Speaker 1: on at the time anyway, you know, music was a
Speaker 1: certain peak. Um. Of course Beatles had broken up on
Speaker 1: all that, but there was this new fusion, a new
Speaker 1: wave of of inspiration which I think was taking place
Speaker 1: in the seventies, and I happened to sort of, you know,
Speaker 1: ride that wave. Yeah, I have to ask because it's
Speaker 1: it's been on my mind lately, and we were talking
Speaker 1: about this before you hopped on the car. If you've
Speaker 1: been watching the Beatles Get Back documentary, I know they
Speaker 1: meant a lot to you as a band. Was curious
Speaker 1: what you thought of that. Well, I haven't seen The
Speaker 1: Beatles to Get Back yet, but I kind of more
Speaker 1: or less know what what it what it would be.
Speaker 1: I'm interested to see it, actually, but I haven't seen
Speaker 1: it yet. Um. But the Beatles were of course, you know,
Speaker 1: they were they were the pioneers for us. Um. The
Speaker 1: fact that they you know, came from like Liverpool, you know,
Speaker 1: and they and they made it um in such a
Speaker 1: way to such a degree that everybody in the world
Speaker 1: knew them. Maybe it might be a few pockets in
Speaker 1: Africa and somewhere else in the desert they may not,
Speaker 1: but most of the world knew John, Paul, George and Ringo.
Speaker 1: I think I got that right in the right order.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Um, they were so influential and they never
Speaker 1: stood still. I think that I learned some something from that.
Speaker 1: Um they were not satisfied and they kept on reaching further,
Speaker 1: and I think that also inspired me to do the same.
Speaker 1: You know. Now, John also was you know, a promoter
Speaker 1: of of peace, you know, that was a big inspiration.
Speaker 1: George was a promoter of the spiritual path. You know,
Speaker 1: that was very influential. So they really did have an impact.
Speaker 1: I mean you could see that on I mean obviously
Speaker 1: that the most obvious Carl Larry would be imagined to
Speaker 1: peace train came out in the same year and are
Speaker 1: both imagining and hoping for a world, you know, a
Speaker 1: brighter future. Yeah, yeah, that was so you get to
Speaker 1: a point when, um, you know, souls are a little
Speaker 1: bit like mirrors of each other, and and definitely that
Speaker 1: was one aspect of Lennon's Um you know dream that
Speaker 1: I enjoyed as well, and I took part in and
Speaker 1: so imagine also it has a very interesting angle for
Speaker 1: for this for the atheist, it may be a kind
Speaker 1: of proof that you know, Lemon didn't believe in God,
Speaker 1: but then you have you got him singing about God
Speaker 1: in another place on another track. UM, yeah, still questioning.
Speaker 1: But I don't think he had a doubt about the
Speaker 1: existence of God. It was just that maybe Yoko had
Speaker 1: a little bit more influence in that song than than
Speaker 1: perhaps he did in that particular department Over the years,
Speaker 1: when when asked to name a song of yours that's
Speaker 1: meant the most, yours really stuck with you. You've repeatedly
Speaker 1: mentioned the Wind, and I wanted to ask you what
Speaker 1: was it about that song? What is it about that
Speaker 1: song that continues to make it so powerful for you?
Speaker 1: Because it was one of those which um arrived without
Speaker 1: effort and reflected perfectly, you know, my position on the
Speaker 1: path at that moment, and in fact, it kind of
Speaker 1: depicts more or less my position today because you know,
Speaker 1: I'm still trying to find out what God wants or
Speaker 1: what God knows, and I don't know it, and you know,
Speaker 1: God does so it's it's a matter of finding out, um,
Speaker 1: you know what's in store for you, but having trust
Speaker 1: um that you've made a certain decision to to to
Speaker 1: leave bad things behind, you know. So I say in
Speaker 1: that song, you know, I'm not going to make the
Speaker 1: same mistakes never, never, never. That's not quite true, because
Speaker 1: you can't stop making mistakes. But it's it's the wish
Speaker 1: to get over and get past those mistakes that I
Speaker 1: think that song represents. And it's still me and you know,
Speaker 1: and it's the most accurate I would say, depiction of
Speaker 1: my of my spirit. There was an interview you gave
Speaker 1: recently where you said something a phrase or an expression
Speaker 1: I'd never heard, but it's it's stuck with me the
Speaker 1: last few days. A coincidence is the way that God
Speaker 1: keeps himself anonymous, and I haven't been able to get
Speaker 1: it out of my mind. I wanted to ask you
Speaker 1: more about that. Do you believe that we choose our path?
Speaker 1: Or is there a destiny, some kind of preordained That
Speaker 1: is the very I was almost impossible question um, because
Speaker 1: what I've learned and what I have learned through through
Speaker 1: reading and finally from reading the Koran, there is a
Speaker 1: there is an acceptance that God must know I must
Speaker 1: know everything if he's God has to so. But that
Speaker 1: doesn't stop us or from doesn't stop God from giving
Speaker 1: us the ability, you know, to choose our destiny. And
Speaker 1: we're going to shoes probably what we're going to choose.
Speaker 1: And that's like I've written, I've written a song about that.
Speaker 1: You know, you know the road you chose is the
Speaker 1: one you know you chose. I can't I can't remember
Speaker 1: the lyrics exactly, but it's something like that. So you
Speaker 1: you meet your own destiny with your own volition. But
Speaker 1: it's kind of like waiting for you. But if you
Speaker 1: wouldn't you don't want to be a fatalist. We're not fatalist.
Speaker 1: We believe that change is possible. If you don't think that,
Speaker 1: then nothing can ever happen in your life that would
Speaker 1: surprise you. It's just at the you're a cork on
Speaker 1: the ocean. You're just at the mercy of you know,
Speaker 1: you're going to take take control of whatever it was
Speaker 1: in you. I suppose. Yeah, well, certain times, you know,
Speaker 1: there are there are certain divine interventions which you need
Speaker 1: that I mean, you know, like you know Moses couldn't have,
Speaker 1: you know, parted the waves by himself. H And so
Speaker 1: there was this It was waiting for him. It was
Speaker 1: waiting for that moment, and it had to be him,
Speaker 1: and it had to be that staff. And you know,
Speaker 1: as all these things come together in God's most perfect universe,
Speaker 1: you had a very uh, this is not on my
Speaker 1: list of questions. You had a very special moment in
Speaker 1: the ocean, yourself in the water. You know, that was
Speaker 1: a very crucial moment in your life. Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: that was like the moment of reckoning. What it was
Speaker 1: the It was a time when I again realized my
Speaker 1: own frailty and weakness inability to to actually saved myself,
Speaker 1: you know, and therefore you put yourself in the hands
Speaker 1: of God and that and that was it, and I
Speaker 1: was home and dry. Then I had to work out
Speaker 1: what did it mean, you know, And then it came,
Speaker 1: you know, the gift was my brother gave me after
Speaker 1: that of the Quran, which then opened up all the
Speaker 1: all the pages of understanding which I ever wanted. Of course,
Speaker 1: that was before political Islam ever rose its head in
Speaker 1: Iran or all the other places. Um. And this was
Speaker 1: a very quiet time on the on the spiritual front. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean you see this this searching in in so
Speaker 1: many of your songs. I mean, it's it's all throughout
Speaker 1: this album. What was your working relationship like with with
Speaker 1: Paul Samuel Smith. How did he assist in in shaping
Speaker 1: these songs and giving voice to these you know, the
Speaker 1: these textures. Uh, well it was I think he probably
Speaker 1: saw me like some kind of tornado. Um. I had
Speaker 1: all this kind of amazing energy which he had to
Speaker 1: put into order and on tracks and make it, you know, listenable,
Speaker 1: and he did. He he had that calmness about him,
Speaker 1: which which was very very complimentary to me. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: because if he was like Phil Specter, you know, we
Speaker 1: wouldn't have worked together. It would be impossible at the
Speaker 1: point a gun at me all the time. So no,
Speaker 1: So Paul was very very gentle and and he just
Speaker 1: wanted me to be in the moment. He just arranged
Speaker 1: the studio in that way, and he brought along these
Speaker 1: great musicians which I never knew before, you know, so
Speaker 1: as all Paul's choosing like bringing Allan Davis on board
Speaker 1: and Harvey Burns, you know, John Ryan and Pete, Peter Gabriel,
Speaker 1: you know, he came and played flute once, but it
Speaker 1: was really Alan Davis. I think who who who did
Speaker 1: the most in kind of helping me Um I wasn't
Speaker 1: such a great guitar player, but he was so much
Speaker 1: better than me, and he filled in those little gaps
Speaker 1: so beautifully, so you know it was made in heaven
Speaker 1: sort of. I love hearing how you you you conversed
Speaker 1: together musically, you and Allen. I think it's so beautiful
Speaker 1: and the harmony's just always there, and even in I've
Speaker 1: seen clips of you playing relatively recent concerts pre COVID concerts,
Speaker 1: obviously at it and it's still there. It's really beautiful
Speaker 1: to hear. Yeah, Alan's a big mate of mine and
Speaker 1: I love him. I mean this teaser in the fire Cat,
Speaker 1: I feel like, more so even than Tillerman, has so
Speaker 1: many unique and great sounds and textures. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: the calypso sounds of Tuesday's Dead and the influence of
Speaker 1: your your Greek heritage really comes through with the bazooki
Speaker 1: players on on Ruby Love, which was that in seven
Speaker 1: eight times something like that interesting time signature. Were you
Speaker 1: surrounded by that kind of music growing up? Was that
Speaker 1: really something that takes you back to Cheftsbury Avenue. Yes
Speaker 1: it was. It was part of dad's you know community, um,
Speaker 1: you know, the Greek separate community in London. I mean
Speaker 1: he was a pretty eminent character in amongst the community
Speaker 1: and the weddings going on all the time. So would
Speaker 1: be invited drag DeLong actually you know to these weddings.
Speaker 1: And but interestingly, my brother who because my father had
Speaker 1: a marriage, he was married before my mother, um, and
Speaker 1: I had an elder half brother and he George, you know,
Speaker 1: played bazooki and so when I went to some of
Speaker 1: the weddings, it was like George, my brother who was
Speaker 1: playing there you know, with another group of people, um,
Speaker 1: not a lot of Greeks. And and he played bazooki
Speaker 1: as well as violin as well. So that all became
Speaker 1: you know, part of the what informed my soundtrack, the
Speaker 1: soundtrack to my life. Um. But it was broader than
Speaker 1: that because we lived in the West End and you know,
Speaker 1: so you know, there'll be like a Spanish you know,
Speaker 1: um show coming on with a with a dancer called
Speaker 1: Antonio and I love Spanish music, and and then there
Speaker 1: was a South African Juan and you know, and then
Speaker 1: there was the clubs. There was you Beat, which was
Speaker 1: happening like deep down some of these basement clubs. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was just soaking it all up. So yeah, Calypso
Speaker 1: was before Blue Beat, you know, it was kind of
Speaker 1: like the the acceptable face of Jamaica. Blue Bit was
Speaker 1: got a little bit darker. I was gonna say. I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like listening to when you revisited Tillerman, so
Speaker 1: many of the songs that you did, like Longer Boats
Speaker 1: and and a number of others took on them a
Speaker 1: much bluesier R and B edge And you can even
Speaker 1: hear on the version of a Bitter Blue your new
Speaker 1: version of Bitter Blue a bit too. Uh. What led
Speaker 1: you do to revisit those kind of more R and
Speaker 1: b bluesy sounds. Was it growing up with you know,
Speaker 1: Alexis Corner and Cyril Davis and John Mayo in London,
Speaker 1: like all that kind of influence coming through. Well you
Speaker 1: just mentioned some of the greatest something to be honest,
Speaker 1: Cyril Davis, Oh my god, you know I bought his record.
Speaker 1: It was like it was one of the first records
Speaker 1: I bought, along with Chuck Berry, bow Did Lee and
Speaker 1: Little Richard and it was all that kind of R
Speaker 1: and B. That's what I was interested in, Elvis. That
Speaker 1: was my sister's you know cadeau of music. It wasn't
Speaker 1: necessarily he was trying to imitate the real thing, you know,
Speaker 1: That's why. That's the way I saw it anyway. But
Speaker 1: it was R and B was just so at the groove.
Speaker 1: It had a reality. Um and you know it was
Speaker 1: the beat as well. You know, it was something really
Speaker 1: extraordinary about it. I I loved your your your revisiting
Speaker 1: of Tillerman. I love you new version of Bitter Blue?
Speaker 1: What led you to choose that song on on this
Speaker 1: record to to to reimagine? Well, I had heard a
Speaker 1: group called Green Day and and one of their songs
Speaker 1: called No the Enemy. I was listening to us said
Speaker 1: hang on, that sounds a little bit like a bit
Speaker 1: of blue, And I thought, um, well, but that didn't
Speaker 1: make me want to go to the solicitor and sort
Speaker 1: of start, you know, claiming my rights. I just I said, well,
Speaker 1: maybe our revisit this one as well. So I did.
Speaker 1: When we were in the studio, I think doing Laughing Apple.
Speaker 1: We were in Brussels, and there was a moment where
Speaker 1: I kind of brought it out, you know. I've been
Speaker 1: trying this slower version, you know, And but the riff
Speaker 1: is so good. It stands up whatever tempo you put it,
Speaker 1: you know. So, and of course it's a little bit darker,
Speaker 1: but I love that song. It was a great song.
Speaker 1: I think it was in the book The Company's the
Speaker 1: Box Set. I think it was Alan Davis. He said, yeah, whenever,
Speaker 1: whenever you'd started playing that song, all the roadies we've
Speaker 1: grown because it meant snap strings and broken strings strings. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so true. That's so true, you know. And as
Speaker 1: I said, I never really learned how to play guitar.
Speaker 1: I politely begged to disagree, but I'll take your word
Speaker 1: for maybe it was when I was when I was
Speaker 1: on stage, I got a little bit excited. Yeah, probably probably.
Speaker 1: I mean the set has so many wonderful moments and demos.
Speaker 1: I was really fascinated by the day they make me
Speaker 1: czar about Alexei, the child of Nicholas the second that
Speaker 1: the czar who was murdered by the Bolsheviks in in Um.
Speaker 1: This was from a musical you were writing, right. That
Speaker 1: was also where father and Son from Tilerman came from.
Speaker 1: Do I have that right, true. Um. I wrote about ten,
Speaker 1: maybe eleven twelve, I can't remember, um songs for for
Speaker 1: the musical. And I was deep into, you know, writing
Speaker 1: that with with an author called Nigel Hawthorne. He's also
Speaker 1: he was a comedian, you know, an actor M J. George. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there we are. And UM, So anyway, we were writing
Speaker 1: that and I was writing all these songs and following
Speaker 1: some was one, UM, the day they make me O.
Speaker 1: I love that little song. I love it. Um. It's
Speaker 1: kind of got that Russian tilt, which again I'm talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, my influences. UM, and I think maybe you're right,
Speaker 1: maybe you're wrong. Was also another song from from the musical.
Speaker 1: Would you ever revisit that? It's such a fascinating I mean,
Speaker 1: the story just historically is so interesting to me, and
Speaker 1: all the songs for it are are all the ones
Speaker 1: I've heard are absolutely gorgeous. Would you ever revisit that
Speaker 1: kind of thing? Yeah, we're still trying to find a
Speaker 1: stage that's big enough to hold the Russian Revolution. That's
Speaker 1: the only problem we're actually having at the moment. But
Speaker 1: I would I would love to. Actually, I've been thinking
Speaker 1: about that, and you know, there were so many projects
Speaker 1: I'd love to just revisit. For instance, another one called Numbers.
Speaker 1: It was a whole story which which went with that
Speaker 1: album and a book to go with it, and so
Speaker 1: I've got that to do as well. There's quite a
Speaker 1: few things lined up in the back. Kay wow. I
Speaker 1: mean you see just in this teaser box set all
Speaker 1: the different ways that you express yourself, not just through music,
Speaker 1: but visually. You know, you mentioned earlier that you initially
Speaker 1: were a visual artist, and and you know, for those
Speaker 1: who don't know, you've done I think the majority of
Speaker 1: your album colors with water or album covers with watercolor. Um.
Speaker 1: I loved that the cartoon with Spike Milligan's narration is
Speaker 1: now available for for moon Shadows now on this this
Speaker 1: box set. How how did that come to me? I
Speaker 1: just think the visuals, I feel like I need to
Speaker 1: be given more praise. I just I think they're absolutely stunning.
Speaker 1: They are so warm, they are so funny, they are
Speaker 1: so vibrant. I just I can't get enough of the
Speaker 1: graphics you created for this. Well, that was that was
Speaker 1: one of the great opportunities that I had, you know,
Speaker 1: with with the Highland Records, was to paint my own
Speaker 1: you know, of us. That was Chris Blackwell who suggested
Speaker 1: that I do that, and and that's where it began.
Speaker 1: You know, Monabon Jakin was like, you know, the dust spin,
Speaker 1: and then there was tea for the tiler Man, and
Speaker 1: then there was the moon, you know, the moonside. So
Speaker 1: we had the sun which was the tiler Man, and
Speaker 1: he had the moon which was teasing the fire catch
Speaker 1: at night and day. It was kind of complimentary. Um.
Speaker 1: And then I don't know how I got onto this,
Speaker 1: but I started drawing a little story about you know,
Speaker 1: Teaser and and the fallen Moon, and I completed it,
Speaker 1: and you know, my manager then got the the book
Speaker 1: published and then we looked around for someone to to
Speaker 1: narrate it. And Spike Milligan, I mean, he's one of
Speaker 1: my favorites. He's like the Goons. You know, the Beatles
Speaker 1: love the Goons. You just look at hard days night
Speaker 1: and you get that um so um. And he did.
Speaker 1: He came along and did it, and you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's just it was great how it all happened. However,
Speaker 1: when it comes to the actual animation, I'm a bit
Speaker 1: more critical because I don't think that Teaser kept his
Speaker 1: personality throughout the way, his face started looking like almost
Speaker 1: like his cousin. You know, it wasn't quite and the
Speaker 1: profile wasn't quite right. So because I was an artist,
Speaker 1: I had to hand this over to the animators and
Speaker 1: I never quite I was never quite satisfied with the outcome.
Speaker 1: But um, you know it's still a great piece of art. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's beautiful. Were you there in the in the studio
Speaker 1: when he was doing what did you get him to
Speaker 1: do Blue Bottle or or cron or blood Dog or somebody? Yeah?
Speaker 1: He did. He did it in one take. You can imagine,
Speaker 1: you know, one fake and it's iconic. You know, even
Speaker 1: to this day, I still mimic it every now and again.
Speaker 1: I loved him like like the it's the it's the
Speaker 1: little whispering out do you do? I love that bit
Speaker 1: where the owls are whispering to each other. I can't
Speaker 1: wait for more people to hear this. It's gonna be.
Speaker 1: It's one of the many gems that are that are
Speaker 1: in this set. And and I also loved hearing some
Speaker 1: of the rehearsal takes with Rick Wakeman of Morning Is Broken. Uh,
Speaker 1: just an incredible, incredible, um modern him not as adapted
Speaker 1: from him. Uh, can you tell me more about the
Speaker 1: genesis of that song. I just think it's absolutely astonishing
Speaker 1: piece of work. Well, it wasn't mine, obviously, that's the
Speaker 1: first thing. And I was, as I said, I had
Speaker 1: quite a few songs sort of already half written written,
Speaker 1: but I needed to have a few more to to
Speaker 1: choose from for the for the teaser. And so that
Speaker 1: came from a visit to a bookshop in religious department,
Speaker 1: and Um, I picked out a hymn book. I thought,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get a bit of inspiration from this,
Speaker 1: because you know, I used to sing him my Catholic
Speaker 1: school for six years, you know, so I was I
Speaker 1: was definitely hopefully with that. So I opened the book
Speaker 1: when I took it home and started working on trying
Speaker 1: to decipher what the melodies were. Because I couldn't read
Speaker 1: music very well, I had to do it very very
Speaker 1: slowly with one finger. And when I worked out the
Speaker 1: melody of Morning is Broken, I just said, oh, this
Speaker 1: is incredible. Um I loved it, and from that moment,
Speaker 1: you know, it became part of my um from the
Speaker 1: songs I wanted to record. When we got into the studio,
Speaker 1: there were there were sort of different. You know, we
Speaker 1: wanted to look for something slightly different. Every song has
Speaker 1: its own universe, so in other words, I wanted to
Speaker 1: do other than just an ordinary acoustic which I've done
Speaker 1: on the demo. Rick was around and we invited him in,
Speaker 1: and then we just gave him this beginning bit and
Speaker 1: bit of middle there, and another bit there and bit
Speaker 1: at the end, and he just came in and did
Speaker 1: this incredibly heavenly part which now resounds today throughout the world,
Speaker 1: and you know, is associated with me. Of course, it
Speaker 1: was Rick who was playing that um but I chose
Speaker 1: the song. I I found the song. It's just I mean,
Speaker 1: hearing Morning is broken and juxtaposing it was something like
Speaker 1: Matthew and Son or here Comes My Baby from just
Speaker 1: what four years earlier. I mean, those are incredible songs too.
Speaker 1: But just the growth, the tremendous amount of growth that
Speaker 1: you went through in such a short amount of time,
Speaker 1: just a few years, it is really remarkable. It's just
Speaker 1: something that I don't know, it's not really a question,
Speaker 1: but it is something I want to recognize that as
Speaker 1: something that continues to blow me away. Is that your
Speaker 1: growth musically and spiritually in such a short period of time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: things did happen very fast. You know, it's surprising, and
Speaker 1: you know, for me today to go back and think
Speaker 1: about it and how many things happened within that short
Speaker 1: space of time, it's kind of amazing, miraculous. You know,
Speaker 1: I was there. You're gonna laugh at me for this question,
Speaker 1: but it's something I'm genuinely curious about. Are you superstitious
Speaker 1: at all when you're writing a song? Do you everything?
Speaker 1: Oh I need to use this is my lucky guitar,
Speaker 1: or I need to If I don't, I write better
Speaker 1: in the morning, I write better in the evening. I
Speaker 1: write better in this room. Are there any um habits
Speaker 1: is maybe not quite the right word, but any little
Speaker 1: sort of superstitions or talismans that you hold onto that
Speaker 1: you write that that really are kind of you know,
Speaker 1: dumbbo has his feather and then you have something that, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, something that you hold to when you're writing.
Speaker 1: Not really. I think that the consistent of the the
Speaker 1: constant in my songwriting is always to look for what
Speaker 1: hasn't been done yet, hasn't been written and so and
Speaker 1: so when I pick when I pick up an old guitar, well,
Speaker 1: I've been here before. I've played this chord so many times.
Speaker 1: When I get another guitar, that's an opportunity to hear
Speaker 1: a new vibe. I go, WHOA, see sounds new, you know,
Speaker 1: and now I might and it really inspire me. So
Speaker 1: instant wants themselves carry a kind of an aura and
Speaker 1: and and a characteristic which can then lend itself to
Speaker 1: to to helping you to write the song which needs
Speaker 1: to come out of that instrument. Um. You know when
Speaker 1: you've got like um, I mean I could. I could
Speaker 1: write all day long if I didn't have other things
Speaker 1: to do. You just have to sit down on the yamaha,
Speaker 1: and you know, you write anything today, You've got all
Speaker 1: your fingertips. I mean, it's easy if it's you. I
Speaker 1: feel like that is clearly something that is a tremendous
Speaker 1: gift of yours, and that's something that that the rest
Speaker 1: of us or I won't speak for everybody else, something
Speaker 1: that I personally struggle with being able to actually uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I may know all the chords and the notes,
Speaker 1: but to actually create something from inside of me, I
Speaker 1: think is far more difficult to do. And it's something
Speaker 1: that that you do so so gracefully and beautifully um,
Speaker 1: in a way that is incredibly inspiring. Thank you. Well,
Speaker 1: As I said, it's what I have to you know,
Speaker 1: it's what I do or what I did, what I
Speaker 1: do and you know, and I think it's um again,
Speaker 1: it's a gift. I don't you know when you look
Speaker 1: at a child growing up, you know there'll be certain
Speaker 1: characteristics to that child that people say, Look like the
Speaker 1: way he's holding that pencil, isn't it good? You know?
Speaker 1: And it's already there. It's in the d n A somehow. Um.
Speaker 1: You were talking about destiny, you know, so I was
Speaker 1: just kind of recapping on that on that issue. That's
Speaker 1: all I mean. Obviously, the you know, the one of
Speaker 1: the main uh uh hallmarks of this album is uh
Speaker 1: is peace train? Um. As you've said on numerous occasions,
Speaker 1: the peace train remains delayed. Uh. Is it frustrating it
Speaker 1: all for you to sing that song fifty years later
Speaker 1: now and see that that we still have a bit
Speaker 1: of a long way to go as a planet before
Speaker 1: we reach anything approaching the ideals outline end in that song. Uh? No,
Speaker 1: I mean that the whole reason I wrote the song
Speaker 1: is because I'm an optimist and that doesn't change, you know,
Speaker 1: the fact that the peace trainer isn't here. Yeah, in fact,
Speaker 1: peace trainer has gotta keep rolling its way towards us,
Speaker 1: because that's that's the nature of life, you know. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's when this is no permanent, um, paradise, this
Speaker 1: is not permanent, you know. So in other words, that
Speaker 1: there is a movement towards it, towards something that is
Speaker 1: that is permanent, but it may not be of this world.
Speaker 1: And I think that's kind of like what what I
Speaker 1: mean or what I can interpret it to me, you know,
Speaker 1: and look at looking back um today, you know, like
Speaker 1: you can talk about peace, you know, and then you
Speaker 1: look at certain areas of the world, said, that's where
Speaker 1: we've got a concert, but actually look over here, there's
Speaker 1: like millions of starving people. I'm gonna come on, that's
Speaker 1: important too. How are you going to get these people
Speaker 1: who experience peace, you know, when they've got nothing, nothing
Speaker 1: to eat and nothing to feed their children. So it's
Speaker 1: a massive question. It's all connected to so many other issues. Uh,
Speaker 1: pieces a very complex issue. But you know, as as
Speaker 1: far as a dreamer is concerned, we can't stop dreaming
Speaker 1: about it. It's a beautiful quote you had recently. Peace
Speaker 1: begins in the playground, and I think that's something that's
Speaker 1: very important to share. I want to ask you more
Speaker 1: about about that. Yeah, because kids, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: that they can be cruel. They can be very cruel,
Speaker 1: and something can be you know, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you know they have to they have to learn. This
Speaker 1: is where you learn, you know. The schools, I mean
Speaker 1: they're basically social you know, um factories for for for
Speaker 1: you know, human beings to get to how to um,
Speaker 1: you know, get on in life and how to survive.
Speaker 1: You know, how do you survive? Teacher who really wants
Speaker 1: me to and I can't learn this thing, you know,
Speaker 1: but and this guy wants what I've got in my
Speaker 1: you know, lunch box. Um, there's so many things going on.
Speaker 1: It's it's the kernel, you know, of of of how
Speaker 1: we grow up, on how we behave later. It's very
Speaker 1: important to teach, you know, teach kids how to get
Speaker 1: on at a very early age. You know. There's an
Speaker 1: unfortunate side effect I think of of school at least
Speaker 1: of you know, of the you know, conformity factory. Uh.
Speaker 1: To paraphrase what your said is that it really does
Speaker 1: sort of unfortunately for a time at least, train the
Speaker 1: individually individuality out of children, I think, just to be
Speaker 1: able to kind of make it through. And a movie
Speaker 1: that I watched as a kid that really meant a
Speaker 1: lot to me was in fact Harold and Maud, which
Speaker 1: I just learned yesterday the soundtrack is being made available
Speaker 1: for his first wide release, I believe, ever, which is
Speaker 1: wonderful that that film has meant so much to to
Speaker 1: so many, including myself, over the years. How did you
Speaker 1: you first get involved with with how ashby the director? Um?
Speaker 1: It was through my manager and he kind of he
Speaker 1: was given a copy of the book by Colin Higgins
Speaker 1: Um and they were making a film of it in Paramount,
Speaker 1: and he gave it to me and said, looking, they're
Speaker 1: looking for the music for this film, and you know,
Speaker 1: read this, okay, you know? And I did, and that
Speaker 1: was the beginning of I loved the book. There's that
Speaker 1: dark sense of humor, you know. I kind of associated
Speaker 1: uh with playing tricks, you know, I love doing things
Speaker 1: like that. So it was great. It's it's such a
Speaker 1: beautiful um story. And then I found out that how
Speaker 1: had already more or less fallen in love with all
Speaker 1: my music and got my two records, Manobon Jack and
Speaker 1: Tephen Dinner more or less, you know, sunk in sync
Speaker 1: with what he was doing on the film, and so
Speaker 1: I would say, well, that's great. You know. Then I
Speaker 1: sort of just went with it. Um. I went over
Speaker 1: and um, you know, I met him, and it was
Speaker 1: during the filming in San Francisco, you know, with Ruth
Speaker 1: Gordon and Bud Court. It was great. It was a
Speaker 1: great time and a great uh what a movie and
Speaker 1: what a movie, you know, and what a time to
Speaker 1: make a movie. He was one of the beginnings of
Speaker 1: that kind of new wave. I mean, you know, look
Speaker 1: at Wes Anderson to say, and he wouldn't be who
Speaker 1: he is without hell out. I was reading the press
Speaker 1: release for the Herald Mods soundtrack and it included a
Speaker 1: description that I really enjoyed. The film represents the potentially
Speaker 1: glorious benefits that kind of rise from a partnership between
Speaker 1: the balance conservative pragnantism and colorful, free spirited idealism, and
Speaker 1: reading that, I thought it could almost be an apt
Speaker 1: description for you. Do you feel that in any way
Speaker 1: that you have a Herold and a Mod within you?
Speaker 1: That are kind of in a in a in a
Speaker 1: dance that make you um, and that that who you
Speaker 1: are and inform your your your work and your outlook.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you don't have to look too far. I mean,
Speaker 1: my father was from Cyprus, my mother was from Sweden,
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm the product of that incredible fusion
Speaker 1: of different cultures, um and and so this balance of calmness, coolness,
Speaker 1: conservatism and that the heat, Mediterranean, you know, energy, fury, um.
Speaker 1: All these things kind of take place within my DNA somewhere.
Speaker 1: So so yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, I'm half
Speaker 1: Sicilian and half Eastern Europeans, so I can I can
Speaker 1: relate there. You are. You know, you know what it's
Speaker 1: like to sit in the snow, and you know what
Speaker 1: it's like to get burned in the sun exactly. I Mean,
Speaker 1: the thing that I'm so excited about all these incredible
Speaker 1: reissue sets that have been coming up the last few
Speaker 1: years is that it really is reintroducing your music to
Speaker 1: a whole new generation of fans. Is there a message
Speaker 1: that you would like somebody first discovering your music to
Speaker 1: take away from it. I think it's within the the
Speaker 1: the ambience of the film, how old Amore. It's to
Speaker 1: do with you know, not being not being uh predictable,
Speaker 1: and allowing yourself to go beyond other people's expectations of you,
Speaker 1: and even beyond your own expectation because you may not
Speaker 1: even know we are own potential. So I think you
Speaker 1: know it is reaching out for the stars and and
Speaker 1: they'n not that far away. You might be one of them. Well,
Speaker 1: that is an absolutely beautiful note to end on use of.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time today and most
Speaker 1: importantly your music is a huge honor. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy this episode of Inside the Studio,
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of
Speaker 1: Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite podcast.