WEBVTT - Yusuf Cat Stevens 0:00:02.040 --> 0:00:05.320 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.840 Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan runtalg but 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:11.680 enough about me, my guest today is one of the 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:15.600 most beloved singer songwriters of all time. For over half 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.759 a century, his music is served as the soundtrack for 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:22.240 growing up and leaving home in pursuit of self discovery 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:26.360 and inner truth, whether performed by himself or a host 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:30.400 of artists including Dolly Parton, Rod Stewart, Patti LaBelle or 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:35.120 Lynda Ronstat. Songs like Peace Train, Moonshadow, the First Cut 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:38.360 is The Deepest and Wild World all bear his trademark 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.800 sincerity and spiritual curiosity. He began his career as a 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.720 swinging London teen idol, notching baroque pop hits like Matthew 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:50.519 and Son and Here Comes My Baby. The sophisticated melodies 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:52.680 quickly earned him a reputation as one of the most 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:57.000 precocious minds in music, and hey, his handsome Mediterranean features 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.520 looked good on Team Beat magazines too. Are a time 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:02.680 he ran with the likes of Jimmy Hendrix and the 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.839 Walker Brothers, but the hard living rock and roll lifestyle 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.199 soon caught up with him. After a bout of tuberculosis 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.640 landed him in the hospital. He began to embrace some 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:16.040 more stripped down sound and lifestyle. He emerged that the 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:19.319 dawn of the seventies as a folk tings troubadour, equal 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:23.759 parts mature and mischievous, beguiling fans with his musical missives 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:27.800 from his metaphysical journey. It made him a global superstar. 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.560 It His gargantuan material success left him with more questions 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.040 than answers in the search for inter fulfillment. A near 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:39.080 death experience while swimming in the Pacific precipitated a spiritual awakening, 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.559 which led him to adopt the Islamic faith in seven. 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.480 For many years, he rejected the entertainment industry and the 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:49.760 songs that had used to touch so many, Taking the 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:53.240 name Yusuf Islam, he sold his guitars and dedicated the 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:57.520 next three decades the theological study and charity work. The 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.240 new millennium marked a gradual reconciliation with both Western music 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:05.000 and his own legacy. He's released four albums of new 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:09.080 Western music, and in recorded a reimagined version of his 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:13.440 breakthrough nineteen seventy album T for the Tillerman. Now he's 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.880 overseeing a massive reissue project. He's most recently revisited nine 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:21.240 seventy ones, Teaser and the Fire Cat with a mammoth 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:25.600 four disc box set featuring unreleased tracks, unheard demos, and 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:29.839 rare live performances. It'll be followed on February twenty two 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.679 with the soundtrack to how Ashby's coming of age cult 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:36.000 film Harold and Maud, which is being made widely available 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.360 for the first time, complete with nine songs and dialogue 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.600 from the movie. Many fans thought they'd never see the 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.200 day when he returned to the songs they love so well, 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.320 and it's been a joyous homecoming for all concerned. I'm 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.280 so happy to welcome to the show. Josef kat Stevens. 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:58.840 Oh my goodness, and I have so many things I 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:00.639 want to ask you about, but I guess to start. 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:05.040 Caesar in The Fire Cat was released in one very 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:07.760 pivotal point in your journey. Can you take me back 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.119 to that time. I mean, where were you at personally 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:19.880 and spiritually? Uh, well, personally, I was, you know, engaged, 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:25.800 very engaged with my music. Um on one level, Um, 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.680 that was the the outward you know, sort of if 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:34.240 you like existence. Um. But but within me. I had 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:38.280 already started u my spiritual journey, you know, sometime back 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:42.320 after I had recovered from tuberculosis, and that was in 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.400 and and so I was also on a very uh 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:55.200 you know, deep search forum for meaning and so, and 0:03:55.280 --> 0:04:00.120 that of course came out very very um you know 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.800 clearly in my music and my lyrics. Um you could 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.400 you could see them all all the thoughts that I had, 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.360 and all all the fears and all the hopes, um, 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:14.040 you know, all transparent within my music. I mean this 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.359 in en seventy one was just after Teeth of the 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.320 tilement went, you know, completely global and must have changed 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:23.920 your life immeasurably. I mean, you had success in England 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.240 in nineteen sixty seven, but now you've gone from playing 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.680 clubs like the Gaslight in Greenwich Village to playing Carnegie Hall. 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.200 What was your relationship like to this this new level 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.719 of fame at that time? Was it thrilling? Was it unnerving? 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:40.040 Or was it all the above? Um? Well, I'd reached 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:44.880 a certain plateau and you know, I don't see that 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.159 there was anything hindering me from going even further. You know, 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.479 that was that was what that was a kind of 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:54.120 state of mind I was in um t for the 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.720 Turnamoun was done, you know, but there was a high 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.840 level of expectation for the next album, and of course 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.279 most most of my concentration went into my songs, you know, 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:08.520 my my, you know. The the touring was kind of 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.680 less important for me, but it was important to kind 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:13.400 of connect. But at the same time, what I was 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.919 really doing was was writing and recording. That was my world, 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.440 and then we revealed it, you know, during during the 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:25.479 concerts and during the tours. So yeah, I kind of 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.200 I didn't want to repeat till a man in a way, 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:31.960 I could never do that, and um, you know I 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.360 had to. He still had a lot of songs left 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.120 over because during my convalescence after the hospital, I was 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.839 writing so many songs. I had about twenty five songs 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.880 to kind of fill out more or less three albums, 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.720 you know, from the very beginning, Um someone finished, you know, 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.880 some needed fixing and but some I needed to write more. 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.840 So that's that was my whole, you know life at 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.719 that time. It was I was very excited by the 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:04.440 fact that people are really listening to me, and and 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.640 I had an audience, you know, and and that's always 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.120 what I think drives you, you know, I mean, if 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.720 you if you're alone and in the desert, nobody's listening, 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.599 you know why I sing another song that That was 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.440 exactly what I was actually going to ask him. Always 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.680 this question is going to completely give away the fact 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:23.719 that I've never written the song of my life. I'm 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:25.880 so curious for people who are are blessed with the 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.279 ability to write music, what compels them to do it? 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.520 Is it a desire to connect with other people? Or 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.279 is it to get something out of you? And if you, 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.480 you know, would you write the same number of songs 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:38.599 if you were alone on the desert island? But it 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:43.279 sounds like for you it's more for connecting, Um it 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.760 is it is. It's a well first of all, you know, 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:47.840 you go back to the tradition and you see that 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.000 there are these trooper doors, you know, trooper doors kind 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.520 of like they entertain people. They entertained the king, you know, 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:56.359 only abody to get it right, you know, otherwise the 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.640 shop so um so. And not only that, but it 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:04.599 was a re attractive vocation, you know, so definitely you 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.880 attracted a lot of female attention. And that was good too. 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:09.560 You know, you could see the image of the trooper 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.800 door singing up to the balcony and she's kind of 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:17.080 leaning over. So there's that kind of romantic side to 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.560 which was like the I suppose one of my first incentives, um, 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.120 but not just that I loved music. I mean I 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:30.800 loved music. Problem was, um, I couldn't really seeing other 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.040 people's songs. It took too long to learn, like the chords, 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:36.480 and I was still kind of getting my way and 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:40.680 finding my way with the guitar and then the lyrics. 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:42.760 So you know, I just started writing my own and 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.520 I felt I had a lot of a lot of 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:47.120 things and a kind of a different and a new 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:52.280 unique angle to perhaps you know, to to convey. So 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.800 that's why I started writing songs. And it was because 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.280 I did have My first audience was of course my family, 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.560 and my mother was my number one fan, you know, 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.640 and you really need that encouragement. Um in the beginning. 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.600 For sure, if if if I listened to my brother, 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:12.760 I would not be, you know, the person I was, 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.600 because he just didn't have any confidence and he said 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:18.680 go back to art, you know. So Um, because I 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.040 was an artist originally I wanted to be an artist. 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.160 So so it was that confidence I was getting from 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.320 my mother and from my sister, and then my brother 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:31.320 joined in. You know. Um, so so when you start 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:36.440 rolling and then you find that people actually like your 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.680 your music, and you know, and when I started writing songs, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.000 first of all, I was hoping to be a songwriter 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:46.640 before I was thinking about singing my songs myself, you know, 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:51.720 becoming a you know, a sort of protege of the 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.160 pop music business. I wasn't interested in that. I wanted 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.760 to write songs, but then not everybody could get around 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:01.720 my lyrics, around my style love. You know, music was 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:07.319 slightly odd and angular and some of the timings were 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.640 like weird, so therefore I had to kind of sing 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:15.079 them myself. And but when people did sing my songs, 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:16.800 I was lucky to get a few hits in the 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.880 very early stages, because here Comes My Baby was a 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.640 song which um was kind of I signed it over 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.800 to this one of my first publishers, and they got it, 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.360 you know, um to the Tremelos. I know, you had 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.280 a massive hit in the in the States with that, 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.200 so you know, that really gave me confidence. And then 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:37.520 of course it was all rolling on from there. A 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:39.560 few years back, you released but I think was the 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.160 first song you ever wrote, Mighty Peace on the album 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.040 Laughing Apple. And it's just so astonishing to me they 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.920 think that that was your first song, and yet I 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.160 mean lyrically, it's so sophisticated and there's so many themes 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:53.559 on it that you touch on throughout your work. It's 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.040 just amazing that that a song mighty piece was your 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.280 starting point when you first begin writing songs. Was there 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.320 a specific message that you in your mind that you 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:06.400 wanted to to get a cross? Um? Uh, you know, 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.319 I think I wrote a song which kind of explained 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.679 it um on the album called is It So? And 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:14.560 and the song is called I Never wanted to be 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.679 a Star? Well that wasn't quite true, but you know, 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.800 um there was that instinct to want to be a 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.000 star and a superstar why not? But but no, there's 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.080 the lyrics say, you know, I never wanted to be 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:31.440 a star, tongue in cheek. Um, I only wanted a 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.640 little bit of love so I could put a little 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.240 love in my heart. And that's kind of like actually 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.440 it was the truth of the matter, was you know 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:43.640 that there is a kind of, um, a relationship, but 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:47.040 a loving relationship between the singer and the listen and 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.559 the listener whoevers you know, enjoying the music at the time. 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:55.320 Um and so um, So I think that I was 0:10:55.360 --> 0:11:01.240 looking for appreciation, for acknowledgment, for recognition, and and the 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:03.360 things I had to say. We're interesting for a lot 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.040 of people because I, as I said, I came from 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:12.600 a slightly diverse background and and a unique background. When 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.480 when you're writing, do you get more inspiration looking outward 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:21.000 or looking inward? Well, I think both are important. But 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:26.200 of course outwardly, Um, you still perceive the world through 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.120 your inner prison, you know, of of of the self. 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.760 You see it through this glass which we call the soul, 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:38.920 you know. And and and if you are a little 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.560 bit empty in that department, then you might want to 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.080 kind of you may want to go for the world 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:45.960 a little bit more, you know. And and so there's 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:51.400 this kind of balance between you know, trying to achieve 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.599 something outwardly, but really are you are you achieving it? 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.120 Is it really making you happy? All those questions, you know, 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.000 have to be asked and and of course they're not 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.040 quite answered. But when when you want to um, when 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.880 you analyze it, I mean listening to to teaser in 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.679 the fire Cat. I mean, there's there's so much wisdom 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.439 on that album, and it's incredible to think you're only 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:18.760 what three when you wrote about these philosophical questions that 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.040 you're grappling with. Listening back to it now for you 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.839 with with so much more life experience, are you impressed 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:27.439 in a way or are there feel things that you 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:29.640 feel you got right or I guess on the flip side, 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.880 any things you feel you got wrong on some of 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:37.040 the lyrics on the album. I think I've got a 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.240 lot of things kind of out of me, and I 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:41.920 think that was the most important thing. Was that was 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.040 to get it out, to break out of my kind 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.400 of shell, because you know, I was a little bit 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.720 of an intro I think you have to be in 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.280 a way. An artist wants to express himself, he can't 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:54.960 do it any other way than through his art. And 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.280 I think that was it. Um. So I wanted to 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:03.199 to express and I did. My words became very, very translucent, 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.560 and you could you could see exactly who I was. 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.440 I wore my heart on my sleeve, as I say, 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.240 you know, so that um and there was nowhere else 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.240 to hide. When I was writing my songs, I didn't 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.320 really want to hide anyway. So it was very frank. 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:19.720 But at the same time, there was this inspiration which 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.480 came which I don't feel as if I'm totally responsible 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.760 for that because there were so many great things going 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.240 on at the time anyway, you know, music was a 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:33.319 certain peak. Um. Of course Beatles had broken up on 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.560 all that, but there was this new fusion, a new 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.320 wave of of inspiration which I think was taking place 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.120 in the seventies, and I happened to sort of, you know, 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:46.839 ride that wave. Yeah, I have to ask because it's 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.000 it's been on my mind lately, and we were talking 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:50.880 about this before you hopped on the car. If you've 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:54.440 been watching the Beatles Get Back documentary, I know they 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.640 meant a lot to you as a band. Was curious 0:13:56.640 --> 0:14:00.360 what you thought of that. Well, I haven't seen The 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.640 Beatles to Get Back yet, but I kind of more 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.520 or less know what what it what it would be. 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.240 I'm interested to see it, actually, but I haven't seen 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:13.240 it yet. Um. But the Beatles were of course, you know, 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.200 they were they were the pioneers for us. Um. The 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:22.360 fact that they you know, came from like Liverpool, you know, 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.440 and they and they made it um in such a 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.120 way to such a degree that everybody in the world 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.360 knew them. Maybe it might be a few pockets in 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.920 Africa and somewhere else in the desert they may not, 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:40.000 but most of the world knew John, Paul, George and Ringo. 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:42.160 I think I got that right in the right order. 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:46.560 But anyway, Um, they were so influential and they never 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.080 stood still. I think that I learned some something from that. 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:55.320 Um they were not satisfied and they kept on reaching further, 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.120 and I think that also inspired me to do the same. 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:02.840 You know. Now, John also was you know, a promoter 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:07.200 of of peace, you know, that was a big inspiration. 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.760 George was a promoter of the spiritual path. You know, 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.120 that was very influential. So they really did have an impact. 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.120 I mean you could see that on I mean obviously 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.160 that the most obvious Carl Larry would be imagined to 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.400 peace train came out in the same year and are 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:30.320 both imagining and hoping for a world, you know, a 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:36.560 brighter future. Yeah, yeah, that was so you get to 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:41.680 a point when, um, you know, souls are a little 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.760 bit like mirrors of each other, and and definitely that 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:51.640 was one aspect of Lennon's Um you know dream that 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:55.280 I enjoyed as well, and I took part in and 0:15:56.280 --> 0:16:01.200 so imagine also it has a very interesting angle for 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.880 for this for the atheist, it may be a kind 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.640 of proof that you know, Lemon didn't believe in God, 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:09.600 but then you have you got him singing about God 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:13.760 in another place on another track. UM, yeah, still questioning. 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:16.720 But I don't think he had a doubt about the 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.920 existence of God. It was just that maybe Yoko had 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.080 a little bit more influence in that song than than 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:37.640 perhaps he did in that particular department Over the years, 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.880 when when asked to name a song of yours that's 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.800 meant the most, yours really stuck with you. You've repeatedly 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:45.680 mentioned the Wind, and I wanted to ask you what 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:47.560 was it about that song? What is it about that 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:50.280 song that continues to make it so powerful for you? 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:58.400 Because it was one of those which um arrived without 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:05.959 effort and reflected perfectly, you know, my position on the 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.760 path at that moment, and in fact, it kind of 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.119 depicts more or less my position today because you know, 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:16.239 I'm still trying to find out what God wants or 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:19.320 what God knows, and I don't know it, and you know, 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.600 God does so it's it's a matter of finding out, um, 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:25.640 you know what's in store for you, but having trust 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.320 um that you've made a certain decision to to to 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.960 leave bad things behind, you know. So I say in 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.760 that song, you know, I'm not going to make the 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:41.680 same mistakes never, never, never. That's not quite true, because 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.400 you can't stop making mistakes. But it's it's the wish 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.320 to get over and get past those mistakes that I 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:52.639 think that song represents. And it's still me and you know, 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:57.520 and it's the most accurate I would say, depiction of 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:02.120 my of my spirit. There was an interview you gave 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.920 recently where you said something a phrase or an expression 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.199 I'd never heard, but it's it's stuck with me the 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.600 last few days. A coincidence is the way that God 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.520 keeps himself anonymous, and I haven't been able to get 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:15.000 it out of my mind. I wanted to ask you 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.280 more about that. Do you believe that we choose our path? 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:23.560 Or is there a destiny, some kind of preordained That 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:29.960 is the very I was almost impossible question um, because 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.560 what I've learned and what I have learned through through 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:38.399 reading and finally from reading the Koran, there is a 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:44.399 there is an acceptance that God must know I must 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:49.640 know everything if he's God has to so. But that 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:54.120 doesn't stop us or from doesn't stop God from giving 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:59.280 us the ability, you know, to choose our destiny. And 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.520 we're going to shoes probably what we're going to choose. 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.639 And that's like I've written, I've written a song about that. 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.199 You know, you know the road you chose is the 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.000 one you know you chose. I can't I can't remember 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:16.440 the lyrics exactly, but it's something like that. So you 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:22.119 you meet your own destiny with your own volition. But 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.760 it's kind of like waiting for you. But if you 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.879 wouldn't you don't want to be a fatalist. We're not fatalist. 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.440 We believe that change is possible. If you don't think that, 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:34.720 then nothing can ever happen in your life that would 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.520 surprise you. It's just at the you're a cork on 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.639 the ocean. You're just at the mercy of you know, 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.879 you're going to take take control of whatever it was 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:46.320 in you. I suppose. Yeah, well, certain times, you know, 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:50.399 there are there are certain divine interventions which you need 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:54.800 that I mean, you know, like you know Moses couldn't have, 0:19:55.080 --> 0:20:00.680 you know, parted the waves by himself. H And so 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.159 there was this It was waiting for him. It was 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.760 waiting for that moment, and it had to be him, 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:08.439 and it had to be that staff. And you know, 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:11.960 as all these things come together in God's most perfect universe, 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.159 you had a very uh, this is not on my 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:18.800 list of questions. You had a very special moment in 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:20.919 the ocean, yourself in the water. You know, that was 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:25.359 a very crucial moment in your life. Yeah, for sure, 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:29.040 that was like the moment of reckoning. What it was 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:33.919 the It was a time when I again realized my 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:39.920 own frailty and weakness inability to to actually saved myself, 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:41.920 you know, and therefore you put yourself in the hands 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.359 of God and that and that was it, and I 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:46.880 was home and dry. Then I had to work out 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.040 what did it mean, you know, And then it came, 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.200 you know, the gift was my brother gave me after 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:56.240 that of the Quran, which then opened up all the 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.000 all the pages of understanding which I ever wanted. Of course, 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:05.199 that was before political Islam ever rose its head in 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.199 Iran or all the other places. Um. And this was 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.480 a very quiet time on the on the spiritual front. Yeah. 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:16.520 I mean you see this this searching in in so 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:18.880 many of your songs. I mean, it's it's all throughout 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.240 this album. What was your working relationship like with with 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:26.320 Paul Samuel Smith. How did he assist in in shaping 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:29.080 these songs and giving voice to these you know, the 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:36.520 these textures. Uh, well it was I think he probably 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.360 saw me like some kind of tornado. Um. I had 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:44.040 all this kind of amazing energy which he had to 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:53.040 put into order and on tracks and make it, you know, listenable, 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:55.840 and he did. He he had that calmness about him, 0:21:55.880 --> 0:22:00.439 which which was very very complimentary to me. Um, you know, 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.159 because if he was like Phil Specter, you know, we 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:06.320 wouldn't have worked together. It would be impossible at the 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:08.920 point a gun at me all the time. So no, 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.600 So Paul was very very gentle and and he just 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:16.520 wanted me to be in the moment. He just arranged 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:21.160 the studio in that way, and he brought along these 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:23.479 great musicians which I never knew before, you know, so 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:28.280 as all Paul's choosing like bringing Allan Davis on board 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:34.560 and Harvey Burns, you know, John Ryan and Pete, Peter Gabriel, 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:37.320 you know, he came and played flute once, but it 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:40.240 was really Alan Davis. I think who who who did 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:45.800 the most in kind of helping me Um I wasn't 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:48.320 such a great guitar player, but he was so much 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:50.879 better than me, and he filled in those little gaps 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:54.639 so beautifully, so you know it was made in heaven 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:58.040 sort of. I love hearing how you you you conversed 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:01.200 together musically, you and Allen. I think it's so beautiful 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:04.280 and the harmony's just always there, and even in I've 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:08.520 seen clips of you playing relatively recent concerts pre COVID concerts, 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:10.960 obviously at it and it's still there. It's really beautiful 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:14.960 to hear. Yeah, Alan's a big mate of mine and 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:19.840 I love him. I mean this teaser in the fire Cat, 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:22.919 I feel like, more so even than Tillerman, has so 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:26.240 many unique and great sounds and textures. I mean, there's 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:29.720 the calypso sounds of Tuesday's Dead and the influence of 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:33.000 your your Greek heritage really comes through with the bazooki 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:36.280 players on on Ruby Love, which was that in seven 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.679 eight times something like that interesting time signature. Were you 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:41.600 surrounded by that kind of music growing up? Was that 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:46.480 really something that takes you back to Cheftsbury Avenue. Yes 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:49.400 it was. It was part of dad's you know community, um, 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:52.520 you know, the Greek separate community in London. I mean 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:55.920 he was a pretty eminent character in amongst the community 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:59.120 and the weddings going on all the time. So would 0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:02.080 be invited drag DeLong actually you know to these weddings. 0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:07.400 And but interestingly, my brother who because my father had 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:11.040 a marriage, he was married before my mother, um, and 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:16.000 I had an elder half brother and he George, you know, 0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:19.119 played bazooki and so when I went to some of 0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:20.840 the weddings, it was like George, my brother who was 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:23.960 playing there you know, with another group of people, um, 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:27.880 not a lot of Greeks. And and he played bazooki 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:31.840 as well as violin as well. So that all became 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:37.080 you know, part of the what informed my soundtrack, the 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:40.640 soundtrack to my life. Um. But it was broader than 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:43.800 that because we lived in the West End and you know, 0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:48.119 so you know, there'll be like a Spanish you know, 0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:52.520 um show coming on with a with a dancer called 0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:55.879 Antonio and I love Spanish music, and and then there 0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:58.480 was a South African Juan and you know, and then 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:01.359 there was the clubs. There was you Beat, which was 0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:05.600 happening like deep down some of these basement clubs. I mean, 0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:09.080 I was just soaking it all up. So yeah, Calypso 0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:12.159 was before Blue Beat, you know, it was kind of 0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:16.200 like the the acceptable face of Jamaica. Blue Bit was 0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:19.560 got a little bit darker. I was gonna say. I mean, 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:24.320 I feel like listening to when you revisited Tillerman, so 0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:27.159 many of the songs that you did, like Longer Boats 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:29.440 and and a number of others took on them a 0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:32.800 much bluesier R and B edge And you can even 0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:35.320 hear on the version of a Bitter Blue your new 0:25:35.400 --> 0:25:38.000 version of Bitter Blue a bit too. Uh. What led 0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:40.240 you do to revisit those kind of more R and 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:43.080 b bluesy sounds. Was it growing up with you know, 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:46.919 Alexis Corner and Cyril Davis and John Mayo in London, 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:49.160 like all that kind of influence coming through. Well you 0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:51.560 just mentioned some of the greatest something to be honest, 0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:55.320 Cyril Davis, Oh my god, you know I bought his record. 0:25:55.359 --> 0:25:57.840 It was like it was one of the first records 0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:00.159 I bought, along with Chuck Berry, bow Did Lee and 0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:02.879 Little Richard and it was all that kind of R 0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:05.760 and B. That's what I was interested in, Elvis. That 0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:09.680 was my sister's you know cadeau of music. It wasn't 0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:13.159 necessarily he was trying to imitate the real thing, you know, 0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:15.840 That's why. That's the way I saw it anyway. But 0:26:15.880 --> 0:26:19.520 it was R and B was just so at the groove. 0:26:20.240 --> 0:26:24.840 It had a reality. Um and you know it was 0:26:24.840 --> 0:26:26.560 the beat as well. You know, it was something really 0:26:26.640 --> 0:26:31.679 extraordinary about it. I I loved your your your revisiting 0:26:31.680 --> 0:26:34.240 of Tillerman. I love you new version of Bitter Blue? 0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:37.640 What led you to choose that song on on this 0:26:37.680 --> 0:26:43.199 record to to to reimagine? Well, I had heard a 0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:47.399 group called Green Day and and one of their songs 0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:50.000 called No the Enemy. I was listening to us said 0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:53.200 hang on, that sounds a little bit like a bit 0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:57.440 of blue, And I thought, um, well, but that didn't 0:26:57.440 --> 0:26:59.120 make me want to go to the solicitor and sort 0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:02.200 of start, you know, claiming my rights. I just I said, well, 0:27:02.359 --> 0:27:04.720 maybe our revisit this one as well. So I did. 0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:07.399 When we were in the studio, I think doing Laughing Apple. 0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:10.560 We were in Brussels, and there was a moment where 0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:12.600 I kind of brought it out, you know. I've been 0:27:12.600 --> 0:27:16.600 trying this slower version, you know, And but the riff 0:27:16.720 --> 0:27:19.919 is so good. It stands up whatever tempo you put it, 0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:22.480 you know. So, and of course it's a little bit darker, 0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:24.960 but I love that song. It was a great song. 0:27:25.800 --> 0:27:28.280 I think it was in the book The Company's the 0:27:28.320 --> 0:27:30.960 Box Set. I think it was Alan Davis. He said, yeah, whenever, 0:27:30.960 --> 0:27:34.520 whenever you'd started playing that song, all the roadies we've 0:27:34.560 --> 0:27:39.600 grown because it meant snap strings and broken strings strings. Yeah, 0:27:39.640 --> 0:27:43.080 that's so true. That's so true, you know. And as 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:45.159 I said, I never really learned how to play guitar. 0:27:47.840 --> 0:27:51.000 I politely begged to disagree, but I'll take your word 0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:53.840 for maybe it was when I was when I was 0:27:53.880 --> 0:27:58.120 on stage, I got a little bit excited. Yeah, probably probably. 0:28:08.359 --> 0:28:12.880 I mean the set has so many wonderful moments and demos. 0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:15.720 I was really fascinated by the day they make me 0:28:15.760 --> 0:28:18.960 czar about Alexei, the child of Nicholas the second that 0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:23.840 the czar who was murdered by the Bolsheviks in in Um. 0:28:23.840 --> 0:28:26.960 This was from a musical you were writing, right. That 0:28:27.080 --> 0:28:30.280 was also where father and Son from Tilerman came from. 0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:34.520 Do I have that right, true. Um. I wrote about ten, 0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:39.280 maybe eleven twelve, I can't remember, um songs for for 0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:42.600 the musical. And I was deep into, you know, writing 0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:48.200 that with with an author called Nigel Hawthorne. He's also 0:28:48.880 --> 0:28:54.040 he was a comedian, you know, an actor M J. George. Yeah, 0:28:54.120 --> 0:28:57.040 there we are. And UM, So anyway, we were writing 0:28:57.040 --> 0:28:59.040 that and I was writing all these songs and following 0:28:59.120 --> 0:29:01.640 some was one, UM, the day they make me O. 0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:04.960 I love that little song. I love it. Um. It's 0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:08.680 kind of got that Russian tilt, which again I'm talking about, 0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:13.200 you know, my influences. UM, and I think maybe you're right, 0:29:13.240 --> 0:29:16.240 maybe you're wrong. Was also another song from from the musical. 0:29:17.760 --> 0:29:20.280 Would you ever revisit that? It's such a fascinating I mean, 0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:23.240 the story just historically is so interesting to me, and 0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:25.640 all the songs for it are are all the ones 0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:28.400 I've heard are absolutely gorgeous. Would you ever revisit that 0:29:28.480 --> 0:29:30.880 kind of thing? Yeah, we're still trying to find a 0:29:30.920 --> 0:29:33.360 stage that's big enough to hold the Russian Revolution. That's 0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:37.000 the only problem we're actually having at the moment. But 0:29:37.800 --> 0:29:40.040 I would I would love to. Actually, I've been thinking 0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:44.000 about that, and you know, there were so many projects 0:29:44.240 --> 0:29:49.200 I'd love to just revisit. For instance, another one called Numbers. 0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:52.400 It was a whole story which which went with that 0:29:52.920 --> 0:29:56.000 album and a book to go with it, and so 0:29:56.040 --> 0:29:57.960 I've got that to do as well. There's quite a 0:29:58.000 --> 0:30:01.720 few things lined up in the back. Kay wow. I 0:30:01.720 --> 0:30:05.840 mean you see just in this teaser box set all 0:30:05.880 --> 0:30:08.560 the different ways that you express yourself, not just through music, 0:30:08.640 --> 0:30:11.480 but visually. You know, you mentioned earlier that you initially 0:30:11.520 --> 0:30:13.960 were a visual artist, and and you know, for those 0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:17.840 who don't know, you've done I think the majority of 0:30:17.880 --> 0:30:22.240 your album colors with water or album covers with watercolor. Um. 0:30:22.280 --> 0:30:26.880 I loved that the cartoon with Spike Milligan's narration is 0:30:26.920 --> 0:30:30.560 now available for for moon Shadows now on this this 0:30:30.640 --> 0:30:32.719 box set. How how did that come to me? I 0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:36.440 just think the visuals, I feel like I need to 0:30:36.480 --> 0:30:39.520 be given more praise. I just I think they're absolutely stunning. 0:30:39.840 --> 0:30:43.000 They are so warm, they are so funny, they are 0:30:43.040 --> 0:30:46.120 so vibrant. I just I can't get enough of the 0:30:46.640 --> 0:30:51.640 graphics you created for this. Well, that was that was 0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:55.760 one of the great opportunities that I had, you know, 0:30:55.840 --> 0:30:59.000 with with the Highland Records, was to paint my own 0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:02.520 you know, of us. That was Chris Blackwell who suggested 0:31:02.560 --> 0:31:05.720 that I do that, and and that's where it began. 0:31:05.720 --> 0:31:08.000 You know, Monabon Jakin was like, you know, the dust spin, 0:31:08.640 --> 0:31:10.920 and then there was tea for the tiler Man, and 0:31:10.960 --> 0:31:13.200 then there was the moon, you know, the moonside. So 0:31:13.240 --> 0:31:15.560 we had the sun which was the tiler Man, and 0:31:15.560 --> 0:31:18.000 he had the moon which was teasing the fire catch 0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:21.920 at night and day. It was kind of complimentary. Um. 0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:24.560 And then I don't know how I got onto this, 0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:27.640 but I started drawing a little story about you know, 0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:32.680 Teaser and and the fallen Moon, and I completed it, 0:31:32.720 --> 0:31:36.400 and you know, my manager then got the the book 0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:39.360 published and then we looked around for someone to to 0:31:39.480 --> 0:31:42.120 narrate it. And Spike Milligan, I mean, he's one of 0:31:42.120 --> 0:31:45.480 my favorites. He's like the Goons. You know, the Beatles 0:31:45.520 --> 0:31:47.800 love the Goons. You just look at hard days night 0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:50.840 and you get that um so um. And he did. 0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:52.800 He came along and did it, and you know, it's 0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:56.200 it's just it was great how it all happened. However, 0:31:56.680 --> 0:31:59.959 when it comes to the actual animation, I'm a bit 0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:03.960 more critical because I don't think that Teaser kept his 0:32:04.040 --> 0:32:07.479 personality throughout the way, his face started looking like almost 0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:11.000 like his cousin. You know, it wasn't quite and the 0:32:11.040 --> 0:32:14.240 profile wasn't quite right. So because I was an artist, 0:32:14.760 --> 0:32:16.840 I had to hand this over to the animators and 0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:19.800 I never quite I was never quite satisfied with the outcome. 0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:24.520 But um, you know it's still a great piece of art. Oh, 0:32:24.560 --> 0:32:28.080 it's beautiful. Were you there in the in the studio 0:32:28.120 --> 0:32:29.320 when he was doing what did you get him to 0:32:29.360 --> 0:32:33.600 do Blue Bottle or or cron or blood Dog or somebody? Yeah? 0:32:33.680 --> 0:32:36.000 He did. He did it in one take. You can imagine, 0:32:36.040 --> 0:32:40.200 you know, one fake and it's iconic. You know, even 0:32:40.200 --> 0:32:42.560 to this day, I still mimic it every now and again. 0:32:43.440 --> 0:32:46.000 I loved him like like the it's the it's the 0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:50.560 little whispering out do you do? I love that bit 0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:54.480 where the owls are whispering to each other. I can't 0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:56.360 wait for more people to hear this. It's gonna be. 0:32:56.560 --> 0:32:59.000 It's one of the many gems that are that are 0:32:59.000 --> 0:33:02.440 in this set. And and I also loved hearing some 0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:07.400 of the rehearsal takes with Rick Wakeman of Morning Is Broken. Uh, 0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:12.000 just an incredible, incredible, um modern him not as adapted 0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:14.760 from him. Uh, can you tell me more about the 0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:17.920 genesis of that song. I just think it's absolutely astonishing 0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:21.760 piece of work. Well, it wasn't mine, obviously, that's the 0:33:21.760 --> 0:33:25.200 first thing. And I was, as I said, I had 0:33:25.240 --> 0:33:28.200 quite a few songs sort of already half written written, 0:33:29.080 --> 0:33:31.400 but I needed to have a few more to to 0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:36.600 choose from for the for the teaser. And so that 0:33:36.680 --> 0:33:41.560 came from a visit to a bookshop in religious department, 0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:45.360 and Um, I picked out a hymn book. I thought, 0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:47.120 I'm going to get a bit of inspiration from this, 0:33:47.120 --> 0:33:49.840 because you know, I used to sing him my Catholic 0:33:49.880 --> 0:33:52.880 school for six years, you know, so I was I 0:33:52.960 --> 0:33:57.040 was definitely hopefully with that. So I opened the book 0:33:57.040 --> 0:34:00.360 when I took it home and started working on trying 0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:04.280 to decipher what the melodies were. Because I couldn't read 0:34:04.360 --> 0:34:07.920 music very well, I had to do it very very 0:34:07.960 --> 0:34:10.560 slowly with one finger. And when I worked out the 0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:13.040 melody of Morning is Broken, I just said, oh, this 0:34:13.120 --> 0:34:18.280 is incredible. Um I loved it, and from that moment, 0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:20.799 you know, it became part of my um from the 0:34:20.800 --> 0:34:24.240 songs I wanted to record. When we got into the studio, 0:34:25.520 --> 0:34:27.160 there were there were sort of different. You know, we 0:34:27.200 --> 0:34:30.680 wanted to look for something slightly different. Every song has 0:34:30.719 --> 0:34:32.719 its own universe, so in other words, I wanted to 0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:35.560 do other than just an ordinary acoustic which I've done 0:34:35.600 --> 0:34:39.640 on the demo. Rick was around and we invited him in, 0:34:40.080 --> 0:34:42.400 and then we just gave him this beginning bit and 0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:45.200 bit of middle there, and another bit there and bit 0:34:45.200 --> 0:34:47.640 at the end, and he just came in and did 0:34:47.680 --> 0:34:53.280 this incredibly heavenly part which now resounds today throughout the world, 0:34:53.320 --> 0:34:55.520 and you know, is associated with me. Of course, it 0:34:55.600 --> 0:34:59.000 was Rick who was playing that um but I chose 0:34:59.000 --> 0:35:02.319 the song. I I found the song. It's just I mean, 0:35:02.440 --> 0:35:05.000 hearing Morning is broken and juxtaposing it was something like 0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:08.640 Matthew and Son or here Comes My Baby from just 0:35:09.360 --> 0:35:12.000 what four years earlier. I mean, those are incredible songs too. 0:35:12.040 --> 0:35:14.840 But just the growth, the tremendous amount of growth that 0:35:14.920 --> 0:35:17.000 you went through in such a short amount of time, 0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:20.960 just a few years, it is really remarkable. It's just 0:35:21.040 --> 0:35:23.760 something that I don't know, it's not really a question, 0:35:23.840 --> 0:35:25.640 but it is something I want to recognize that as 0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:28.680 something that continues to blow me away. Is that your 0:35:28.719 --> 0:35:32.479 growth musically and spiritually in such a short period of time. Yeah, 0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:36.400 things did happen very fast. You know, it's surprising, and 0:35:36.440 --> 0:35:38.680 you know, for me today to go back and think 0:35:38.719 --> 0:35:41.919 about it and how many things happened within that short 0:35:41.960 --> 0:35:45.520 space of time, it's kind of amazing, miraculous. You know, 0:35:46.560 --> 0:35:50.560 I was there. You're gonna laugh at me for this question, 0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:55.800 but it's something I'm genuinely curious about. Are you superstitious 0:35:55.840 --> 0:35:58.000 at all when you're writing a song? Do you everything? 0:35:58.040 --> 0:35:59.760 Oh I need to use this is my lucky guitar, 0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:03.120 or I need to If I don't, I write better 0:36:03.120 --> 0:36:05.080 in the morning, I write better in the evening. I 0:36:05.120 --> 0:36:09.840 write better in this room. Are there any um habits 0:36:09.840 --> 0:36:11.560 is maybe not quite the right word, but any little 0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:14.480 sort of superstitions or talismans that you hold onto that 0:36:14.520 --> 0:36:16.759 you write that that really are kind of you know, 0:36:16.840 --> 0:36:20.760 dumbbo has his feather and then you have something that, uh, 0:36:20.960 --> 0:36:23.840 you know, something that you hold to when you're writing. 0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:31.400 Not really. I think that the consistent of the the 0:36:31.480 --> 0:36:36.400 constant in my songwriting is always to look for what 0:36:36.560 --> 0:36:40.359 hasn't been done yet, hasn't been written and so and 0:36:40.400 --> 0:36:43.480 so when I pick when I pick up an old guitar, well, 0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:46.920 I've been here before. I've played this chord so many times. 0:36:47.480 --> 0:36:51.440 When I get another guitar, that's an opportunity to hear 0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:56.360 a new vibe. I go, WHOA, see sounds new, you know, 0:36:56.440 --> 0:36:59.200 and now I might and it really inspire me. So 0:36:59.600 --> 0:37:03.080 instant wants themselves carry a kind of an aura and 0:37:03.280 --> 0:37:07.879 and and a characteristic which can then lend itself to 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:10.080 to to helping you to write the song which needs 0:37:10.120 --> 0:37:13.879 to come out of that instrument. Um. You know when 0:37:13.880 --> 0:37:16.319 you've got like um, I mean I could. I could 0:37:16.360 --> 0:37:18.160 write all day long if I didn't have other things 0:37:18.200 --> 0:37:20.400 to do. You just have to sit down on the yamaha, 0:37:20.719 --> 0:37:24.600 and you know, you write anything today, You've got all 0:37:24.719 --> 0:37:30.000 your fingertips. I mean, it's easy if it's you. I 0:37:30.040 --> 0:37:34.600 feel like that is clearly something that is a tremendous 0:37:34.640 --> 0:37:37.919 gift of yours, and that's something that that the rest 0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:39.759 of us or I won't speak for everybody else, something 0:37:39.760 --> 0:37:43.560 that I personally struggle with being able to actually uh, 0:37:43.600 --> 0:37:45.760 you know, I may know all the chords and the notes, 0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:48.840 but to actually create something from inside of me, I 0:37:48.840 --> 0:37:51.080 think is far more difficult to do. And it's something 0:37:51.120 --> 0:37:55.440 that that you do so so gracefully and beautifully um, 0:37:55.680 --> 0:38:00.560 in a way that is incredibly inspiring. Thank you. Well, 0:38:00.840 --> 0:38:03.239 As I said, it's what I have to you know, 0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:05.319 it's what I do or what I did, what I 0:38:05.400 --> 0:38:10.000 do and you know, and I think it's um again, 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:12.399 it's a gift. I don't you know when you look 0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:15.000 at a child growing up, you know there'll be certain 0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:18.800 characteristics to that child that people say, Look like the 0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:22.560 way he's holding that pencil, isn't it good? You know? 0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:26.719 And it's already there. It's in the d n A somehow. Um. 0:38:27.040 --> 0:38:29.040 You were talking about destiny, you know, so I was 0:38:29.080 --> 0:38:31.600 just kind of recapping on that on that issue. That's 0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:35.799 all I mean. Obviously, the you know, the one of 0:38:35.800 --> 0:38:41.320 the main uh uh hallmarks of this album is uh 0:38:41.520 --> 0:38:46.040 is peace train? Um. As you've said on numerous occasions, 0:38:46.040 --> 0:38:50.080 the peace train remains delayed. Uh. Is it frustrating it 0:38:50.160 --> 0:38:53.120 all for you to sing that song fifty years later 0:38:53.160 --> 0:38:55.680 now and see that that we still have a bit 0:38:55.680 --> 0:38:57.480 of a long way to go as a planet before 0:38:57.480 --> 0:39:03.920 we reach anything approaching the ideals outline end in that song. Uh? No, 0:39:04.280 --> 0:39:06.640 I mean that the whole reason I wrote the song 0:39:06.719 --> 0:39:10.080 is because I'm an optimist and that doesn't change, you know, 0:39:10.160 --> 0:39:12.600 the fact that the peace trainer isn't here. Yeah, in fact, 0:39:13.280 --> 0:39:16.839 peace trainer has gotta keep rolling its way towards us, 0:39:16.960 --> 0:39:20.839 because that's that's the nature of life, you know. It's 0:39:20.960 --> 0:39:26.239 it's it's when this is no permanent, um, paradise, this 0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:28.640 is not permanent, you know. So in other words, that 0:39:28.680 --> 0:39:31.719 there is a movement towards it, towards something that is 0:39:31.960 --> 0:39:35.560 that is permanent, but it may not be of this world. 0:39:35.600 --> 0:39:38.239 And I think that's kind of like what what I 0:39:38.320 --> 0:39:42.200 mean or what I can interpret it to me, you know, 0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:46.600 and look at looking back um today, you know, like 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:49.600 you can talk about peace, you know, and then you 0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:51.560 look at certain areas of the world, said, that's where 0:39:51.560 --> 0:39:54.120 we've got a concert, but actually look over here, there's 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:58.240 like millions of starving people. I'm gonna come on, that's 0:39:58.320 --> 0:40:00.680 important too. How are you going to get these people 0:40:00.680 --> 0:40:03.880 who experience peace, you know, when they've got nothing, nothing 0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:06.680 to eat and nothing to feed their children. So it's 0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:11.240 a massive question. It's all connected to so many other issues. Uh, 0:40:11.360 --> 0:40:14.359 pieces a very complex issue. But you know, as as 0:40:14.400 --> 0:40:16.720 far as a dreamer is concerned, we can't stop dreaming 0:40:16.760 --> 0:40:20.800 about it. It's a beautiful quote you had recently. Peace 0:40:20.840 --> 0:40:23.680 begins in the playground, and I think that's something that's 0:40:23.760 --> 0:40:26.200 very important to share. I want to ask you more 0:40:26.239 --> 0:40:31.359 about about that. Yeah, because kids, you know, I mean 0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:33.720 that they can be cruel. They can be very cruel, 0:40:35.120 --> 0:40:37.200 and something can be you know, I mean, you know, 0:40:37.320 --> 0:40:39.960 you know they have to they have to learn. This 0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:42.319 is where you learn, you know. The schools, I mean 0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:49.480 they're basically social you know, um factories for for for 0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:53.040 you know, human beings to get to how to um, 0:40:54.200 --> 0:40:58.239 you know, get on in life and how to survive. 0:40:58.920 --> 0:41:01.520 You know, how do you survive? Teacher who really wants 0:41:01.560 --> 0:41:03.880 me to and I can't learn this thing, you know, 0:41:03.920 --> 0:41:06.359 but and this guy wants what I've got in my 0:41:06.680 --> 0:41:10.560 you know, lunch box. Um, there's so many things going on. 0:41:11.160 --> 0:41:14.439 It's it's the kernel, you know, of of of how 0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:17.160 we grow up, on how we behave later. It's very 0:41:17.200 --> 0:41:20.520 important to teach, you know, teach kids how to get 0:41:20.560 --> 0:41:24.200 on at a very early age. You know. There's an 0:41:24.280 --> 0:41:27.560 unfortunate side effect I think of of school at least 0:41:27.560 --> 0:41:33.160 of you know, of the you know, conformity factory. Uh. 0:41:33.440 --> 0:41:35.319 To paraphrase what your said is that it really does 0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:38.719 sort of unfortunately for a time at least, train the 0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:42.279 individually individuality out of children, I think, just to be 0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:45.200 able to kind of make it through. And a movie 0:41:45.239 --> 0:41:46.840 that I watched as a kid that really meant a 0:41:46.840 --> 0:41:49.399 lot to me was in fact Harold and Maud, which 0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:54.600 I just learned yesterday the soundtrack is being made available 0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:57.279 for his first wide release, I believe, ever, which is 0:41:57.840 --> 0:42:00.080 wonderful that that film has meant so much to to 0:42:00.200 --> 0:42:03.280 so many, including myself, over the years. How did you 0:42:03.280 --> 0:42:08.720 you first get involved with with how ashby the director? Um? 0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:11.520 It was through my manager and he kind of he 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:15.920 was given a copy of the book by Colin Higgins 0:42:16.560 --> 0:42:19.160 Um and they were making a film of it in Paramount, 0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:22.680 and he gave it to me and said, looking, they're 0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:24.400 looking for the music for this film, and you know, 0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:27.920 read this, okay, you know? And I did, and that 0:42:27.960 --> 0:42:31.040 was the beginning of I loved the book. There's that 0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:33.959 dark sense of humor, you know. I kind of associated 0:42:34.600 --> 0:42:38.719 uh with playing tricks, you know, I love doing things 0:42:38.719 --> 0:42:41.759 like that. So it was great. It's it's such a 0:42:41.760 --> 0:42:46.279 beautiful um story. And then I found out that how 0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:49.200 had already more or less fallen in love with all 0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:53.080 my music and got my two records, Manobon Jack and 0:42:53.200 --> 0:42:57.400 Tephen Dinner more or less, you know, sunk in sync 0:42:57.680 --> 0:43:02.279 with what he was doing on the film, and so 0:43:02.320 --> 0:43:04.520 I would say, well, that's great. You know. Then I 0:43:04.560 --> 0:43:07.320 sort of just went with it. Um. I went over 0:43:07.360 --> 0:43:09.560 and um, you know, I met him, and it was 0:43:09.880 --> 0:43:13.359 during the filming in San Francisco, you know, with Ruth 0:43:13.400 --> 0:43:16.239 Gordon and Bud Court. It was great. It was a 0:43:16.280 --> 0:43:19.319 great time and a great uh what a movie and 0:43:19.320 --> 0:43:21.480 what a movie, you know, and what a time to 0:43:21.520 --> 0:43:24.239 make a movie. He was one of the beginnings of 0:43:24.239 --> 0:43:26.600 that kind of new wave. I mean, you know, look 0:43:26.600 --> 0:43:28.839 at Wes Anderson to say, and he wouldn't be who 0:43:28.840 --> 0:43:32.560 he is without hell out. I was reading the press 0:43:32.600 --> 0:43:35.440 release for the Herald Mods soundtrack and it included a 0:43:35.480 --> 0:43:39.960 description that I really enjoyed. The film represents the potentially 0:43:39.960 --> 0:43:43.320 glorious benefits that kind of rise from a partnership between 0:43:43.320 --> 0:43:49.279 the balance conservative pragnantism and colorful, free spirited idealism, and 0:43:49.360 --> 0:43:51.560 reading that, I thought it could almost be an apt 0:43:51.640 --> 0:43:55.080 description for you. Do you feel that in any way 0:43:55.120 --> 0:43:57.880 that you have a Herold and a Mod within you? 0:43:58.239 --> 0:43:59.520 That are kind of in a in a in a 0:43:59.600 --> 0:44:03.200 dance that make you um, and that that who you 0:44:03.239 --> 0:44:06.120 are and inform your your your work and your outlook. 0:44:07.640 --> 0:44:09.920 Oh yeah, you don't have to look too far. I mean, 0:44:09.960 --> 0:44:13.200 my father was from Cyprus, my mother was from Sweden, 0:44:13.360 --> 0:44:18.560 you know, and I'm the product of that incredible fusion 0:44:18.719 --> 0:44:27.480 of different cultures, um and and so this balance of calmness, coolness, 0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:35.480 conservatism and that the heat, Mediterranean, you know, energy, fury, um. 0:44:35.520 --> 0:44:39.120 All these things kind of take place within my DNA somewhere. 0:44:39.239 --> 0:44:42.839 So so yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, I'm half 0:44:42.880 --> 0:44:46.040 Sicilian and half Eastern Europeans, so I can I can 0:44:46.080 --> 0:44:49.000 relate there. You are. You know, you know what it's 0:44:49.000 --> 0:44:50.319 like to sit in the snow, and you know what 0:44:50.400 --> 0:44:54.920 it's like to get burned in the sun exactly. I Mean, 0:44:55.080 --> 0:44:58.400 the thing that I'm so excited about all these incredible 0:44:58.680 --> 0:45:00.960 reissue sets that have been coming up the last few 0:45:01.040 --> 0:45:03.200 years is that it really is reintroducing your music to 0:45:03.800 --> 0:45:07.040 a whole new generation of fans. Is there a message 0:45:07.400 --> 0:45:10.960 that you would like somebody first discovering your music to 0:45:11.000 --> 0:45:16.520 take away from it. I think it's within the the 0:45:16.520 --> 0:45:19.560 the ambience of the film, how old Amore. It's to 0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:25.520 do with you know, not being not being uh predictable, 0:45:26.200 --> 0:45:31.480 and allowing yourself to go beyond other people's expectations of you, 0:45:32.320 --> 0:45:34.799 and even beyond your own expectation because you may not 0:45:34.920 --> 0:45:38.600 even know we are own potential. So I think you 0:45:38.640 --> 0:45:42.719 know it is reaching out for the stars and and 0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:47.160 they'n not that far away. You might be one of them. Well, 0:45:47.160 --> 0:45:50.000 that is an absolutely beautiful note to end on use of. 0:45:50.160 --> 0:45:53.520 Thank you so much for your time today and most 0:45:53.520 --> 0:45:56.120 importantly your music is a huge honor. Thank you so much. 0:45:59.320 --> 0:46:01.760 We hope you enjoy this episode of Inside the Studio, 0:46:01.840 --> 0:46:04.719 a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of 0:46:04.760 --> 0:46:07.759 Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the 0:46:07.760 --> 0:46:10.480 I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen 0:46:10.520 --> 0:46:11.560 to your favorite podcast.