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Speaker 1: The volume.

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Speaker 2: Listen.

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Speaker 1: We've all had fender benders in our life. Sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: drivers involved in car crashes. Be careful, but even if

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Speaker 1: people for over thirty five years. Starting for an entire

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Speaker 1: ever injured, check out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is

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Speaker 1: free unless they win. For more information, go for thepeople

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Speaker 1: dot com slash Colin or dial pound law. That's pound

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Speaker 1: five to nine from your cell phone. That's for the

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Speaker 1: people dot com slash Colin or pound Law five to

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Speaker 1: nine from your cell. This is a paid advertisement. Hi, everybody,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna do about thirty minutes today, twenty five thirty

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Speaker 1: minutes on Jim Harbaugh, Michigan. I'm going to bring a

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Speaker 1: guest on in about ten minutes, ten minutes. Dan Morgan

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Speaker 1: is a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan. You know

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Speaker 1: this is a guy that knows nil. We'll be able

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Speaker 1: to sort of put his arms around for all of us.

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Speaker 1: The Michigan situation. Harbaugh, Michigan, ncaa big ten compliance penalties

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Speaker 1: going forward. But I wanted to start about this years

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Speaker 1: and years ago. It was about probably fifteen years ago.

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Speaker 1: It could have been a little bit longer. Fifteen eighteen

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Speaker 1: years ago. I went to a couple of the big

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Speaker 1: shots at ESPN and I said, if I was you,

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Speaker 1: I would buy the UFC. And ESPN had a lot

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Speaker 1: of East Coast people, a lot of Baseball seam heads

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Speaker 1: in management that just you know, lived for the Yankees

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Speaker 1: and Red Sox, that thought that was much bigger than

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Speaker 1: the NFL anything else. And I said, I know it's

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Speaker 1: not for you guys, and from here it's Vegas, La.

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Speaker 1: But UFC is exploding, and they just didn't have They

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Speaker 1: just didn't have the stomach for it. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: trust me, it's celebrities, it's high end, it's middle class,

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Speaker 1: it's all classes.

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Speaker 2: It's great.

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Speaker 1: You've got You've really got to. At the time, you

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Speaker 1: could have purchased UFC, you know, pennies on the dollar.

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Speaker 1: It eventually sold for six billion dollars. I've talked about before.

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Speaker 1: I've tried to twice buy into the MLS. I back

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Speaker 1: when it was thirty five million dollars a team, and

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Speaker 1: it was eighty five million dollars a team. Now it's

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Speaker 1: half a billion dollars a team. MLS teams will be

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Speaker 1: worth a billion dollars within five years. So my dad

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Speaker 1: invested in the stock market. I've been in it since

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine. I like investing in stuff I've missed.

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Speaker 1: I've hit, like anybody that's invested. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about this today and many of you have

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Speaker 1: a four oh one k you've got a business. I

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Speaker 1: think I really enjoy, you know, play in the stock market,

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Speaker 1: and I have for a long time.

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Speaker 2: And I was thinking if if.

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Speaker 1: Sports were a stock With this Jim Harbaughs story, you

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Speaker 1: think to yourself.

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Speaker 2: Ooh, the Big Ten.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know if this is good for the conference.

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Speaker 1: The singular stock I would buy in sports in North

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Speaker 1: America today is college football, and specifically the Big Ten.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you why.

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Speaker 1: So Michigan Penn State got twice the audience, just just

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Speaker 1: inches shy of twice the audience of the SEC game

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Speaker 1: with Georgia this past week. And this is going to

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Speaker 1: continue going forward, not because Harbaugh's controversial. So one of

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Speaker 1: the things that Fox did this weekend and it's really

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Speaker 1: going to be the trend going forward. It's going to

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Speaker 1: be the most popular conference of all time. Is that

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Speaker 1: the Big Ten. By adding the West coast Seattle, Eugene,

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles markets to the midwest Chicago, you know, Columbus,

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Speaker 1: Ohio and Arbor Detroit markets, you already have the East

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Speaker 1: coast markets with Penn State, Philadelphia market, Rutgers, the New

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Speaker 1: York New Jersey market. You not only have three time

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Speaker 1: zones represented, but the three biggest cities in those time zones,

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Speaker 1: LA Chicago, home of Northwestern and the Big Ten offices.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Rutgers may not be a power, but

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Speaker 1: you know it's the New York New Jersey market. That's

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Speaker 1: much more attractive to advertisers than an Alabama Auburn audience.

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Speaker 1: The biggest money in this country is north It's in Seattle, Chicago, Boston,

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Speaker 1: New York, Philadelphia. So advertisers are going to love this

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Speaker 1: new conference. The biggest cities are now in each time

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Speaker 1: zone represented New York, Chicago, LA, not to mention, you know, Detroit, Philadelphia.

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Speaker 1: So but by having three time zones and foxit it

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Speaker 1: this weekend, it lets you stager games. So at nine Pacific,

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Speaker 1: where I live, you could have the East Coast game.

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Speaker 1: You could have Penn State hosting Oregon, pretty good game.

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Speaker 1: In the next time zone you could have Michigan hosting UCLA,

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Speaker 1: and then late late afternoon you could have Ohio State

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Speaker 1: in Seattle or in Oregon or at USC and then

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Speaker 1: in the late window you could have Oregon, Washington USC

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Speaker 1: UCLA hosting another big ten team back to back to

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Speaker 1: back to back, multiple games that don't have to overlap

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Speaker 1: with each other. In the SEC, you only have two

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Speaker 1: time zones, and overwhelmingly the conference is based in one

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Speaker 1: time time zone, the Eastern time Zone, and so you're

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Speaker 1: going to have all these great games that are overlapped

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Speaker 1: on top of each other. So the Big Ten is

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Speaker 1: going to be going forward starting next year, just game

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Speaker 1: after game, week after week of high profile programs in affluent,

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Speaker 1: wealthy Northern markets, biggest cities, LA Market, Chicago Market, Philly Market,

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Speaker 1: New York market. It's a huge advantage for advertisers, and

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Speaker 1: it's a huge advantage for the conference.

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Speaker 2: And you know, the other thing.

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Speaker 1: Is, I mean this has always been there's always been

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Speaker 1: big cities represented Michigan, Detroit, Penn State with Philadelphia, but

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Speaker 1: now you're adding the Los Angeles market and the Seattle market.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing that there's a big advantage here

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Speaker 1: is Fox is the home of Big Ten football, the

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Speaker 1: primary home.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: Fox has a very football centric network, so during the

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Speaker 1: course of a college football season, they're going to promote

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Speaker 1: the NFL college football and a little postseason baseball. ESPN

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Speaker 1: has the SEC. They have far more sports to promote.

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Speaker 1: They have a larger menu of sports to promote, which

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Speaker 1: can dilute the promotion. The other thing that Fox has,

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Speaker 1: which is a huge advantage is Friday games. So it's Friday,

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Speaker 1: three different time zones, Saturday, bigger Northern markets for advertisers.

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Speaker 1: Over the next five to six years watch the Big Ten.

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Speaker 1: Value explode, profile, explode, television ratings explode. I was talking

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Speaker 1: to an executive months ago about Washington, Oregon, UCLA USC

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Speaker 1: added to the Big Ten, and he said, if sports

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Speaker 1: were starting today, if you were creating a college football conference,

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Speaker 1: you would literally create the Big Ten. You'd have like

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Speaker 1: an La San Francisco, Seattle represented. In the Midwest, you'd

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Speaker 1: want Chicago represented, and then in the East you want Philly, Boston,

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Speaker 1: New York. At least two of those three created. And

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Speaker 1: he said, I mean, just think about this. He said,

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Speaker 1: look at our presidential election, like what states will matter Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: He said, these are the discussed states. They decide our election.

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Speaker 1: He goes, if you were starting today from scratch and

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Speaker 1: creating a college football conference, you would create going forward

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Speaker 1: what the Big Ten is. The economies, the cities, the

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Speaker 1: discussion points, all different time zones.

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Speaker 2: Listen.

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Speaker 1: I love the SEC you know, I even here out West.

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Speaker 1: You know, I grew up watching Big East basketball when

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Speaker 1: you had you know, Hoya paranoia. John Thompson, Louis Carniseca,

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Speaker 1: Saint John's I've never been a regional guy. I'll watch

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Speaker 1: the best stuff. I didn't like Pac twelve basketball as

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Speaker 1: a kid. I love the Big East. I've always loved

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Speaker 1: SEC football. But I have found myself thinking about the

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Speaker 1: choices I will make and if you're giving me people

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Speaker 1: forget Oregon and Washington aren't just good programs. They're much

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Speaker 1: closer to Ohio State than they are Iowa or Michigan

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Speaker 1: State and Nebraska. Washington's had a great coach four times,

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Speaker 1: Don James, they won a national title, Rick new Heisel

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Speaker 1: they won Rose Bulls. Chris Peterson they made the playoffs,

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Speaker 1: Kaylin de Boorr. They haven't lost in a year and

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Speaker 1: a half.

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Speaker 2: Every time.

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Speaker 1: Oregon's had a great coach Mike Bolotti with Jeff Tedford,

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Speaker 1: number two in the country, Mike Bolotti with Chip Kelly dominant,

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Speaker 1: Chip Kelly with Mark Helfridge, National Championship Game, Dan Lanning,

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Speaker 1: top five to six team in the country. So Oregon

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Speaker 1: and Washington are not just you know, adding a better

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Speaker 1: version of Michigan State or Iowa when they have the

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Speaker 1: right coach. These are top ten programs. USC eventually a

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Speaker 1: top ten program. You know, Texas Oklahoma are really really good.

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Speaker 1: Nobody would dispute that, but you could argue Texas is

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Speaker 1: the most underachieving program in the country for the last

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Speaker 1: fifty years. I love Texas and I certainly would in Oklahoma.

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Speaker 1: Is Brett Venables the right coach. We'll see, We'll see.

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Speaker 1: I think they're going to have some recruiting issues eventually

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Speaker 1: in the SEC, but we'll see. But regardless of the

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Speaker 1: hardball thing, and I'm an SEC fan. Next year, if

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Speaker 1: you're giving me Oregon, Ohio State, Michigan USC, followed by

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Speaker 1: Penn State UCLA, I may watch parts of one SEC game.

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Speaker 1: And now I am not in any way saying the

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Speaker 1: SEC won't have good recruiting classes and good teams. That's

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Speaker 1: not what I'm saying. Watch the profile shrink of the SEC.

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Speaker 1: Just go look at the Big Ten schedule. As somebody

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Speaker 1: who's not an SEC or a Big Ten fan, you're me,

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Speaker 1: You've moved all over the country.

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Speaker 2: It's not close. It's not even close.

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Speaker 1: What games I'm gonna watch. I've already looked at the

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Speaker 1: schedule for the Big Ten and SEC. The Big Ten

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Speaker 1: schedules insane. You will not get me off Big Ten

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Speaker 1: football next year. I don't say that because I work

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Speaker 1: at Fox. I watched the SEC now, But it's going

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Speaker 1: to change this weekend, double the rating, big ten. It

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Speaker 1: is going to change. So Dan Morgan's a managing partner

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Speaker 1: at Morgan and Morgan for the Record, intern for Mark

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Speaker 1: Cuban while in law school. That's worth the podcast in itself.

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Speaker 1: Hell yet, but I think the one thing Dan that

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Speaker 1: jumped out to me, you know, there's always been sort

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Speaker 1: of this presumption of innocence, and yet they suspended Harbaugh

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Speaker 1: flying to the game. It almost felt punitive retribution for

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Speaker 1: embarrassing the conference, retribution for embarrassing Michigan. It felt odd

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Speaker 1: to me. But is it that strange?

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Speaker 2: Is it? Do you agree with that suspension?

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Speaker 3: I personally do not agree with this bension.

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Speaker 4: I'm kind of in the same camp that you are

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Speaker 4: in that he has been proven guilty before he had

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Speaker 4: a chance to prove his innocence, just based on pressure

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Speaker 4: from outside schools and whatnot, in coaches and presidents, et cetera,

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Speaker 4: et cetera. But I'm kind of the same camp you

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Speaker 4: are that this investigation hasn't.

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Speaker 3: Properly flown the way it should have.

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Speaker 4: All the information is not out yet and a decision

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Speaker 4: was made. However, you know, did he do it? Did

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Speaker 4: he know about what was going on? Did he direct

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Speaker 4: what was going on? Those facts haven't come out yet.

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Speaker 1: What do you expect from the hearings Friday in which

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Speaker 1: Harbaugh says he might speak.

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Speaker 4: So you know, it really goes on to what does

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Speaker 4: you know, what does the conference bylaws say? You know,

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Speaker 4: is it if anything that happens under his watch, he's

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Speaker 4: responsible for no matter what, and they have the evidence.

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Speaker 4: You know, I could see a judge just saying, you know,

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Speaker 4: we're talking about football here. I got a whole dock

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Speaker 4: at full of civil stuff that's got to get addressed

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Speaker 4: and kick the can, just deny and to move on. Now,

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Speaker 4: if there is an actual breach of contract or if

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Speaker 4: you know, the conference did kind of come to a

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Speaker 4: decision without following their rule book or their discretionary stuff,

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Speaker 4: then a judge, Mike come in and say, no, you

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Speaker 4: didn't play by the rules, this is a breach of

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Speaker 4: contract and allow them to play. You know, my gut

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Speaker 4: is that the civil justice system is going to get

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Speaker 4: too involved here in football suspensions. But we have seen

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Speaker 4: in the past where these conferences and n c DOUBLEA

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Speaker 4: in general kind of think they are the end all,

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Speaker 4: be all rule rule maker and you know, we've successfully

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Speaker 4: have suited n C Double A in the past and

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Speaker 4: have had decisions that they've made overturned.

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Speaker 2: What is due process for Harbaugh?

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Speaker 4: So I think it really comes down, you know, to

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Speaker 4: a full on investigation of what of what took place, what,

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Speaker 4: what did he know?

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Speaker 3: What did that information lead to?

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Speaker 4: You know, was it a rogue operator that had you know,

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Speaker 4: non employees that were going out in filming six filming

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Speaker 4: signals and he had no idea what was going on.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's tough to put him, uh,

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Speaker 4: you know, to be the person to punish for that.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: I know we have all these different scenarios where they

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Speaker 4: say it's a lack of institutional corp of control.

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Speaker 3: He's the head coach.

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Speaker 4: But I mean eventually you got to say where where

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Speaker 4: does the line stop and start? But you know, as

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Speaker 4: far as uh as as what what you know he

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Speaker 4: he could be facing. I mean, I think that the

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Speaker 4: university has taken a position that they're going to pack

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Speaker 4: him completely and they're going to kind of just take

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Speaker 4: it on the head from the conference and eventually the

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Speaker 4: n C Double A.

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Speaker 1: Could Jim Harbaughs sue Big ten Football or Big ten conference.

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Speaker 4: I think he I mean, well, this is America, and

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Speaker 4: you know, I'm I'm a lawyer, but anyone can sue

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Speaker 4: anyone in America. Unfortunately, it's just kind of the fact

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Speaker 4: that it is so, Yeah, I could could have lawsuits.

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Speaker 3: Stem from this. Yes, does he have claims to reputable harm?

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Speaker 4: I think that's what, you know, kind of main thing

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Speaker 4: he was saying is the center calls repebable harm not

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Speaker 4: only to the university if he doesn't coach, or you know,

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Speaker 4: if they don't win a national championship or lose to

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Speaker 4: whoever they lose to along the way because him not coaching,

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Speaker 4: what does that quantify to monetarily? But in his kind

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Speaker 4: of thing too is you're label me as, you know,

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Speaker 4: a cheater, as someone that's spying on teams and using

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Speaker 4: information that's gonna then hurt, you know, my chances of

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Speaker 4: making money down the road. You know, I think if

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Speaker 4: Jim Harborough is still in Michigan next year, he's obviously

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Speaker 4: going to be making the same amount of money. If

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Speaker 4: he's not in Michigan, he's probably making more money somewhere else.

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Speaker 4: So you know, the monetary damages might be tough for

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Speaker 4: him to draw towards from a compensation base. But as

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Speaker 4: far as hey, you guys are defaming me. You said

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Speaker 4: I'm a cheater. I'm not a cheater. Yeah, there could

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Speaker 4: be a legitimate claim there.

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Speaker 1: If you represented the University of Michigan, knowing that Harbaugh

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Speaker 1: can bail if the action, if the punishment is highly severe,

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Speaker 1: it's a weird space for Michigan. Would you caution the

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Speaker 1: university to step gingerly? They are right now in complete, utter,

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Speaker 1: absolute support of Harball, but all of a sudden he

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Speaker 1: loses to Maryland in Ohio State, they get word from

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Speaker 1: the NC DOUBLEA that it's going to be more severe,

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Speaker 1: vacating wins, multiple year long suspension. How do you if

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Speaker 1: you represented Michigan, wouldn't you be a little concerned if

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Speaker 1: Jim just, I mean, he didn't have to be truthful exactly,

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Speaker 1: he could, right, he doesn't. What's he held to if

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Speaker 1: he's got a job in Chicago with the Bears, what

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Speaker 1: does he care exactly? You're representing Michigan, your thoughts on that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So Michigan is definitely in kind of a tough

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Speaker 4: spot because I want him that they're trying to protect

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Speaker 4: their national championship, potential. They're trying to protect their their

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Speaker 4: their wins they've already had, and they're also trying to

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Speaker 4: protect making sure that if everything does go to plan,

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Speaker 4: they can keep Jim Harborough as their head coach, because

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Speaker 4: I think if Michigan was joined in with you know,

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Speaker 4: the Big Ten right now and saying we agree with

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Speaker 4: the suspension, it'd be a lot easier to see Jim

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Speaker 4: Harborough in Chicago next year, you know, or Vegas or

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Speaker 4: Tampa or whatever else that needs a good offensive mind

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Speaker 4: a head coach. So they're kind of in a position

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Speaker 4: where they want to support and they want to make

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Speaker 4: sure that he knows your support, and I think to

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Speaker 4: kind of keep him on the Michigan path. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: I definitely think that they run some risk too of

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Speaker 4: if this investigation leads where it kind of looks like

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Speaker 4: it's leading, which is if the NCAA finds in concert

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Speaker 4: with the Big Ten and wins are vacated and you know,

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Speaker 4: bowl games are suspended and playoff breaches in the future

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Speaker 4: are had to be missed, and the Michigan's going to

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Speaker 4: at least twice.

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Speaker 1: You're very interested in the NIL. The business of college

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Speaker 1: football is changing now. I think it's going to grow.

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Speaker 1: The big ten now has La Market, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, Detroit.

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Speaker 1: It's got the biggest markets in each of the three

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Speaker 1: biggest time zones. But the NIL, the money is going

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Speaker 1: to just keep pouring in. The TV money now players

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Speaker 1: are being compensated. What do you think the NIL looks

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Speaker 1: like in five years?

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Speaker 2: Ten years?

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Speaker 1: Look like just slight variations of what we have now.

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Speaker 2: I worry about.

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Speaker 1: Paying high school players. That just feels dirty to me.

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Speaker 1: What do you think the NIL looks like in five years?

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Speaker 3: So I mean the I mean the NIL.

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Speaker 4: I think it's gonna look a lot more of the same,

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Speaker 4: hopefully more rules and regulations and there's not more guessing

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Speaker 4: on what can be done and what can be done.

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Speaker 4: But I think what you're seeing shape up right now

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Speaker 4: as far as far as these collectives go, I think

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Speaker 4: it's gonna be a lot more of those in the

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Speaker 4: future of Hey, let's bundle all our boosters together and

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Speaker 4: pay kids, you know that way, instead of trying to

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Speaker 4: go out with these these one off deals from you know,

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Speaker 4: a power aid or a big time car dealer in

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Speaker 4: that in that one area to pay the player. You know,

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Speaker 4: we've we've seen that more and Morgan we do deals

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Speaker 4: of all sizes with an IL, So we've done deals

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Speaker 4: with low level softball players, and we've done deals with

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Speaker 4: you know, lottery picks and basketball and you know, top

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Speaker 4: five picks in the NFL draft. So we've kind of

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Speaker 4: seen how it all shapes out, and you know, a

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Speaker 4: lot of what drives that are the agents, and the

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Speaker 4: agents are kind of coming in tune to it too

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Speaker 4: because they know they want to have players that get

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Speaker 4: deals and that's what's going to sign them at an

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Speaker 4: early time. But right now in Michigan, for instance, you know,

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Speaker 4: they're selling a Michigan versus Everybody shirts. All proceeds are

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Speaker 4: going to NIL players. This is going on with Jim Harborough.

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Speaker 4: So all the fan base, you know, ten million fans

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Speaker 4: are now galwan eyed to buy these shirts. Hundreds of

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars are pouring in and those are being distributed

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Speaker 4: directly to the players, you know, so they're obviously winning

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Speaker 4: when that's happened. So anytime you can have an opportunity

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Speaker 4: to get the money to the players, to the actual

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Speaker 4: students in a clean, legitimate way, I think that's what's

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Speaker 4: going to kind of favor because you know, we see

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Speaker 4: it with an offensive guard isn't going to get the

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Speaker 4: same looks at the quarterback gets.

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Speaker 3: At Kentucky now, we try.

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Speaker 4: To do a good deal of spreading the wealth out

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Speaker 4: along as far as the players go. And you know

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Speaker 4: Kentucky basketball, we do a whole team deal where the

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Speaker 4: walk on gets paid as much as the lottery picks.

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Speaker 4: So there is some of that that goes on in

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Speaker 4: in the sport. But I think in the future it's

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Speaker 4: to be more money, more dollars, and it's super competitive.

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Speaker 4: I think you're going to see coaches like Jim Harborough

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Speaker 4: and you know Nick Saban that don't want to compete

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Speaker 4: in that type of environment where they might say, hey,

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Speaker 4: you know I had my run, we did my we

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Speaker 4: we did the whole school way. Now NFL or you know,

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Speaker 4: Saving will probably keep doing it, and il because he

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Speaker 4: has one of the biggest Mercedes Dealers ships in the country.

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Speaker 4: But as far as doing it with the players, I

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Speaker 4: think you're gonna have a new style of coach, a

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Speaker 4: new style of system. It's gonna be a heavily collective basis,

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Speaker 4: and you're going to see these one off deals where

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Speaker 4: you know, the right, players will will be making sept seven.

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Speaker 3: Figures every year.

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Speaker 4: And I know you said it kind of seems dirty

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Speaker 4: in high school, but I think that's definitely the path

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Speaker 4: that's had it where you're going to see a you know,

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Speaker 4: a feenom basketball player. You know, we see it now

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Speaker 4: with overtime the leading elsewhere. These kids are getting half

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Speaker 4: half a million bucks at fourteen fifteen years old.

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Speaker 1: Finally, let's pivot back to Michigan. What do you think

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Speaker 1: transpires and how long will it take?

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Speaker 3: So? I think, you know what, what I would like

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Speaker 3: to see happened. I would like to.

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Speaker 4: See miss and be able to finish the season off cleanly,

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Speaker 4: whatever happens happened, and then let the penalties reigned down

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Speaker 4: after they get stripped, after they win, you know, let

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Speaker 4: let that ball you know, land where it lands, and

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Speaker 4: then figure.

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Speaker 3: Out what do I think happens?

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Speaker 4: Though, I think that on Friday that Harbor will give

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Speaker 4: a Galvanizen speech. He'll make his points, but a judge

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Speaker 4: is probably gonna not make too many decisions. It's going

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Speaker 4: to let you know, the conference make their decisions. If

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Speaker 4: he wants to bring another suit later, that might happen,

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Speaker 4: But I think that you know, most likely he doesn't

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Speaker 4: finish coaching the regular season with Michigan.

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Speaker 3: We'll see what happens in Ohio State game.

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Speaker 4: Obviously that a lot of implications for the national title

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Speaker 4: on that. But I think the NC DOUAA might come

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Speaker 4: in before the playoffs and make their decision too. I

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Speaker 4: know they said they were going to have a decision

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Speaker 4: by the end of the fall. So the National Championship,

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Speaker 4: you know, that happens next year. So I mean I

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Speaker 4: could see a decision being made. I could see him potentially,

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Speaker 4: you know, if they're going to hold the coaches responsible

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Speaker 4: no matter what, even if he had no idea, gave

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Speaker 4: no direction, it couldn't bat for drym Harboro.

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Speaker 3: But I'm I'm hoping it doesn't. And I'm a Gator

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Speaker 3: fan in that. So.

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Speaker 1: Dan Morgan, managing partner Morgan and Morgan.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Dan, Thank you, appreciate you guys having me on

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Speaker 1: The volume.