1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: On August thirtieth, twenty twenty twelve, the body of Ben 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Harrington was found lifeless and contorted lying next to a 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: crashed motorbike. Police arrived on the scene and determined the 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: thirty two year old British backpacker had crashed into an 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: electricity pylon during the nighttime moped ride. His face was 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: looking towards his back. Authorities ask Mark Harrington to identify 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: the body. Mark confirmed it was his brother Ben. The 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: pair had been on holiday together in Katao. Officials quickly 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: concluded that the cause of death was a broken knack 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: due to a motor collision, but Patricia Harrington, Ben's mother 11 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: has questions was it an accident, a mugging gone wrong, 12 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: or something more nefarious. Ten years later, Patricia Harrington is 13 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: still hoping for a proper investigation into the death of 14 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: her son. Welcome to Death Island, a production of KT's 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: Studios and iHeartRadio, Episode six the cases of Ben Harrington 16 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: and Tony Lotus. 17 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 2: I'm Connor Powell, an investigative journalist at KAT Studios with 18 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 2: Stephanie Lydecker, Courtney Armstrong, Andrew Arnow and Jeff Shane. Last episode, 19 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 2: we were covering the cases of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, 20 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 2: and we will get back to them as mentioned, we're 21 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: hoping to get more information about their autopsies and the 22 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 2: DNA evidence, but we're going to turn our attention in 23 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 2: this episode to a different suspicious case. In August of 24 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: twenty twelve, Ben Harrington was on a much needed holiday 25 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 2: with his brother and friend. The thirty two year old 26 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: IT consultant was staying at a villa on Sorry Beach. 27 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,559 Speaker 3: Just after midnight, Ben allegedly crashed into an electrical poll 28 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 3: and died. The police ruled his death in accident and 29 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 3: said Ben died of a broken neck, but when his 30 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 3: family began asking questions and looking closer at his death, 31 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 3: it became clear that this accident was not so cut 32 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 3: and dry. 33 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: For starters, There's no evidence Ben's body had any break 34 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 2: in the neck area, which would imply a broken neck. 35 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: His wallet and personal belongings were also missing. If he 36 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: had died alone on the road, wouldn't they probably still 37 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: be there. His mother also heard rumors that muggers used 38 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: wires to trip up motorcyclists so they could steal from them. 39 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: So the question is is did Ben become the casualty 40 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: of this petty crime. 41 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 3: A pattern's beginning to emerge. Right A backpacker gets drawn 42 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 3: to a paradise and meets a tragic end, only for 43 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 3: the authorities to not appear to conduct a proper investigation 44 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 3: into their death. Ben was only thirty two when he 45 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 3: arrived on Kata with his brother Mark and another friend. 46 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 3: According to Mark, they were on holiday and looking forward 47 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 3: to days of partying and exploring the island. 48 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: On the night of August twenty ninth, Ben wanted to 49 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: keep the party going and he wanted to head downtown. 50 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,839 Speaker 2: He asked his brother Mark if he wanted to join him, 51 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: but Mark passed, so Ben walked down the steps to 52 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: his ren and moped, hopped on it, and drove off. 53 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: The lights dimmed on the moped as Ben drove into 54 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: the night. That was the last time Mark saw his 55 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: brother alive. 56 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 3: Mark went to the morgue to identify his brother's body. 57 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 3: According to their mother, Patricia, she was told by the 58 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 3: Thai authorities that the cause of her son's death was 59 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 3: a broken neck. They told her they knew his neck 60 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 3: was broken because his head was facing the wrong direction. 61 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 2: Ti authorities wanted to cremate Ben's body, but the next 62 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: day Patricia, Ben's mom, called the Home office in the 63 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: UK to get them to stop the cremation. Patricia flew 64 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: Ben's body home and a post mortem exam done in 65 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 2: the UK revealed that Ben had a lot of broken bones, 66 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: but his neck wasn't one of them. The UK coroner 67 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: ruled that Ben died of a transsected orda, a rupture 68 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: of the body's largest artery, but not a broken neck. 69 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 3: The coroner also stated he wouldn't record the death as 70 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 3: an accident because he there wasn't sufficient evidence to support 71 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 3: that theory. It was definitely a tragedy, clearly a collision 72 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 3: of some kind. But now Patricia had more questions than 73 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 3: answers about how Ben died. Was it an accident, was 74 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 3: it a mugging gone wrong? Or was it something even 75 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 3: more nefarious. 76 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: Ben's mother, Patricia had heard about several robberies happening in 77 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: Thailand involving motorbikes. Connor spoke with Sue Buchanan, an author 78 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: and journalists who lived on Thailand for years. She wrote 79 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: the book The Curse of the Turtle, The True Story 80 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: of Thailand's backpacker murders. 81 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 4: I mean I heard about Ben. I heard down that 82 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 4: back road where Ben had his accident. There was a 83 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 4: couple of ties. You used to put like a trip 84 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 4: wire across the road, and that's really the only road 85 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 4: that you could get any kind of speed up on, 86 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 4: So they just put a trip wire there, and quite often, 87 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 4: you know, people would fall off their bike and they 88 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 4: just robed them. 89 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: The tai police concluded Ben's death was an accident, likely 90 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: caused by drunk driving. His watch and while it were 91 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: both missing, and this kind of robbery was a very 92 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: common occurrence Uncle Tow in twenty twelve, Like. 93 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 4: People are falling off motorbikes all the time. People are 94 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 4: you know, pissing the ties off and ending up dead 95 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 4: all the time. So it kind of creeps up on you. 96 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 4: You just get used to it. It's quite normal. I 97 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 4: went to nine funerals in nine weeks. Once I look 98 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 4: back and think, how did that possibly become normal to me? 99 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 5: But it did. It was just normal. It was just 100 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 5: a normal part of living there. 101 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,799 Speaker 1: Did Ben anger the wrong local Uncle Tow or cross 102 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: paths with the mafia? Or was his death an accident. 103 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: Sky News correspondent Jonathan Samuel's also looked into Ben Harrington's case. 104 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 6: The accident on the moped, was there a trip wire? 105 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 6: I mean, his parents seemed to think that he was 106 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 6: robbed and maybe had been pushed off of the moped, 107 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 6: but there was just no proper investigation, or certainly that's 108 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 6: what that's what the parents say so many instance. I mean, 109 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 6: it's very frustrating because you don't necessarily whether the police 110 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 6: are covering things up or whether they're just very amateurish. 111 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 6: They've not had the training, they haven't got the equipment, 112 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 6: they haven't got the manpower, so they sort of make 113 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 6: something up in order to cover their tracks. 114 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: Here's Connor and Andrew. 115 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is one of those things where it's very 116 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 2: possible that it was a motorcycle accident. Maybe even he 117 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: was drunk or just took a turn too fast. I mean, 118 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 2: that's totally plausible. It's also possible that in Thailand and 119 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 2: in a lot of other countries that there are people 120 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 2: who prey on the people who rent these motorcycles and 121 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: mopeds and they set up traps with the intention of 122 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 2: robbing them. This happens, it's there's stories about this, and 123 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: maybe his a motorcycle accident was the result of this. 124 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 2: Potential mugging. But if that's the case, then it's clear 125 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 2: that the police didn't do much of an investigation into 126 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 2: who might have caused it. 127 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 3: Right, And why would the police want to cover up 128 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 3: the death of a tourist. You know, if it's an accident, 129 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 3: it makes a lot more sense to just say, hey, 130 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 3: it was an accident and here's what happened. Sue started 131 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 3: to dig in into all of these mysterious deaths, and 132 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 3: this was around twenty thirteen at. 133 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 2: This point when Ben dies. Thailand is a backpacking haven. 134 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: People are coming from all over the world for many 135 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 2: years at this point, but it also a place was, 136 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 2: you know, where tourists gather. There's always scams, and there's 137 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: always petty theft and things like that, and this is 138 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: one of those cases that it might have just have 139 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 2: been a petty theft that went really wrong. But tay 140 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 2: police on Kotal don't appear to have taken it at 141 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 2: all serious as the result of a crime gone wrong. 142 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: They just sort of dismissed it as, oh, it was 143 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: an accident. The westerner, the tourist was being reckless and 144 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: never mind, we're not going to look any further. 145 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 3: But why not just say, hey, he got in an 146 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 3: accident and something sliced his aorta. Instead they said, oh, 147 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 3: he broke his neck his head was facing the wrong direction. 148 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: I mean, that's a really dramatic thing to just make up. 149 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: And this is part of the pattern, right, This is 150 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 2: what we're seeing time and time again, which is that 151 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: there are these deaths and there's just no investigation, and 152 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: anytime that there's the potential that a local type person 153 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: could be involved in the murder, the investigation is just 154 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 2: immediately pushed to the side, and the tourist, the westerner, 155 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: the visitor is immediately blamed or sort of written off 156 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 2: as their death is their own fault. 157 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: Soup Buchanan started investigating the mysterious deaths I'm Catao in 158 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen. Early on, she began to notice a pattern. 159 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 4: I mean, occasionally someone would get shot or murdered and 160 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 4: I'd go down and have a look, but I wasn't 161 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 4: really reporting on it. So it's only when I started 162 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 4: this so many times my own online publication in twenty 163 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 4: thirteen that I started to cover those kind of stories. 164 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 4: So we launched in July twenty thirteen, and a couple 165 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 4: of things that did happen I put in the paper 166 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 4: and I was immediately told to take them out. 167 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 5: So you can't. You can't cover that story. 168 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 4: Like there's jets muffia on coasts tom who were quite 169 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 4: often killing each other and scamming tourists. 170 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 5: And there was a couple of island tours. 171 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 4: That you know, they'd come screaming across the hill in 172 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 4: four wheel drives and skid off the path and you know, 173 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 4: pile the four wheel drive into someone's house and a 174 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 4: couple of tourist would die. And there was another guy 175 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 4: who got more by an elephant when an elephant went 176 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 4: ballistic on a tour. And I used to go and 177 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 4: cover those things and put them in the paper, and 178 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 4: I just get a phone call. 179 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 5: Then you got to take it out. You can't. You 180 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 5: can't put that in there. 181 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 7: Who was calling you, well. 182 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 4: Various different people, really my business partner who was quite 183 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 4: well connected, and people I've been friends with for a 184 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 4: long time. And so someone would just tell someone to 185 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 4: call me and just take it out. 186 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 5: So I just take it out. I just delete it. 187 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 7: Imquied threats or was it like you would be smart 188 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 7: not to print this. 189 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 4: No, it's like, unless you want trouble or get that 190 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 4: out of your paper, like, don't report on anything this 191 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 4: family do. 192 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 5: And I'm like, all right, fine, And if I. 193 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 4: Ever wanted to report on stuff like that, I would 194 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 4: wait until it was in someone else's newspaper and then 195 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 4: rewrite the article from there newspaper because once it was 196 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 4: broken in like one of the other papers, then it 197 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 4: was safe for me to report on it. 198 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 5: That was like the unwritten rule. 199 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: Really, Sue turned a blind eye to stories about the 200 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: Katao mafia in the beginning, but she continued reporting on 201 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: other crimes. Sue's reporting eventually led to a search warrant 202 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: being issued for her arrest. Connor and Stephanie spoke with 203 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 1: Sue about this. 204 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 4: So I wrote this story about a girl who was raped, 205 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 4: They said, I made the story up, so they try 206 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 4: and do me for computer crimes, fake news, bringing Thailand 207 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 4: into disrepute and inciting national panic. Bearing in mind, when 208 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 4: I wrote this story, I was in the UK, my 209 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 4: server was in Singapore, and my company's registered in the Philippines. 210 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 5: So have I committed a time in a crime entire? 211 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 5: I wasn't in Thailand. 212 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 4: The story was uploaded to a server in Singapore from 213 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 4: the UK and the Saumuvie Times company was registered in 214 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 4: the Philippines and the story was so untrue they sent 215 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 4: five police officers over from Thailand to get the T 216 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 4: shirt from the rape victim and had the DNA on 217 00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 4: it for a climate didn't happen. 218 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: We wanted to find out more about the Computer Crimes 219 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: Act in Thailand and how it's being used by authorities 220 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: to silence journalists. Ian Yarwood is a lawyer and activist 221 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: who's researched the mysterious deaths on Katao. Here he is 222 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: speaking with Connor. 223 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 8: There's no real free speech in Thailand. People are routinely 224 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 8: jailed for criminal defamation and breaches of the Computer Crimes Act, 225 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 8: and also they've got majesty laws and people have been 226 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 8: thrown in jail for criticizing the King's dog. I mean, 227 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 8: that's how ridiculous it becomes, and people get thrown in prison. 228 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 8: I mean sometimes with things like The's someone might criticize 229 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 8: a certain institution that because it may have the name 230 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 8: royal attached to it. They'll say, oh, that's actually an 231 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 8: extension of the list law and you can go to 232 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 8: jail for that. So it's actually a completely different world 233 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 8: if you come from place like Australia or the US. 234 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 8: In Thailand, there's no real free speech. And with the 235 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 8: Computer Crimes Act, it's actually extremely badly written. It's been 236 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 8: rewritten every now and then that it's written in very 237 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 8: vague language. 238 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 9: You know. 239 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 8: The language in the Computer Crimes Act was along the 240 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 8: line of it's an offense to put something into a 241 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 8: computer that could harm someone else. And the idea of 242 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 8: that initially was you shouldn't have viruses, so you shouldn't 243 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 8: be sending viruses to other people. But then some smart 244 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 8: or devious people in the police force and the legal 245 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 8: profession said, oh, hang on, all something dangerous that could 246 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 8: actually mean if you write something critical. So it was 247 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 8: used then to extend to defamation that even though they 248 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 8: had their own criminal defamation laws, they thought, oh, well, 249 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 8: you use the Computer Crimes Act and that very penalties 250 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 8: of up to five years in prison. 251 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 10: So it was a very. 252 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 8: Badly written law, and then people would interpret it extremely widely. 253 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 2: If you combine in a judicial system that is chaotic 254 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 2: and sort of disorganized and without precedent, along with a 255 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 2: corrupt police force, yeah, I mean, is that sort of 256 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 2: the root cause of a lot of the problems on 257 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 2: a place like hotel or does it go deeper. 258 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:16,959 Speaker 8: Yeah, well that's a big part of it. 259 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: But why would Thai authorities want to silence journalists reporting 260 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: on crimes. Jonathan Samuels thinks it all comes down to tourism. 261 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 11: Tourism is so important to Thailand. I'm hugely important, and 262 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 11: I think the last thing the Thai government wants are 263 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 11: these sort of stories going around the world, and they 264 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 11: will do almost anything it takes to make sure they 265 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 11: don't and to try and sort of wrap things up. 266 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 11: It's about protecting their tourism industry and the huge amount 267 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 11: of money brings in. 268 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: Connor spoke with Sam Gruber about tourism and the Thai 269 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: government as well. Sam is a former journalist and entrepreneur 270 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: in Thailand. 271 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 7: When you step back and look at everything you know 272 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 7: about Kotel, why have authorities there not taken steps to 273 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 7: launch proper investigations to try to change the narrative of 274 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 7: the island. I mean, it is a massive money maker, 275 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 7: it's a popular destination. It's internationals, not just Brits. There's 276 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 7: people from all over the world. And yet if the 277 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 7: Thai government type police took investigations just a little bit serious. 278 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 7: Don't you think you could turn the narrative the reputation 279 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 7: of the island very quickly. 280 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 10: By our culture and by our understanding is But the 281 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 10: type people they see completely different. What they see is 282 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 10: they had the business, they build it up, they want 283 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 10: to make money, and then these wisterners come here drunk, 284 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 10: reckless or whatever, and they don't take care of themselves, 285 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 10: and then they get themselves into trouble and something happens, 286 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 10: and then the media coming from all over the world 287 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 10: and start to cry foul play, and actually they are 288 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 10: disturbing their piece. It's the other way around. The type 289 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 10: people say it's us before in us just simply not 290 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 10: comprehending that it was the own fault. Everybody who goes 291 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 10: there and throws all all warnings overboard about security, about 292 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 10: how to behave in Thai culture, not to run top less. 293 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 10: It's a conservative country still yet and the type people 294 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 10: they they blame us. Actually, when I go to Kotau 295 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 10: and I listen to the people, they say, Okay, Hannah 296 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 10: and David, who were clearly murdered, those are the two 297 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 10: the only ones confirmed having been murdered. All the others. 298 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 10: They always found another explanations over those reckless medication used, 299 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 10: drug use or jumping from from dj towers into the pool. 300 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 10: There was always an explanation. It was always the fault 301 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 10: of the of the victims. But to cut a long 302 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 10: story short, nothing really changed. It's still in the hands 303 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 10: of the Kotau people, the ties. They run it their way. 304 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 10: They don't want us to interfere, and that's that's the way. 305 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 10: That's the way it stays. We cannot be scared to 306 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 10: the end of our days because normal type people in 307 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 10: the normal Kotao people there are good guys. You go 308 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 10: there and you have fun and nothing happens to you. 309 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 10: So clear these through some cases, bring transparency, be nice 310 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 10: to the parents of victims. That's all I'm asking for, 311 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 10: and then we can move on. What you need is 312 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 10: a police force that earns the description. You need people there. 313 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 10: You need a forensic examination if something happens, which is 314 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 10: clear and transparent and credible, and then you can avoid 315 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 10: a lot of trouble coming up, a lot of rumors 316 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 10: which is so poisonous and so paid for the reputation 317 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 10: of hold. Thailand is a tourist destination. We all suffer. 318 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 10: I'm running my hotel, everybody suffering when these reports go out. 319 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 10: None of us is happy, and we don't want to 320 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 10: blame local mafia whatever. That doesn't help us. We want 321 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 10: the police please find out, that's your job, what happened, 322 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 10: and make it credible that the people at least they 323 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 10: get the answers they deserve. 324 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 7: Do you have any hope that things could change? 325 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 10: I think only when these people who are behind some 326 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 10: mysterious things, when they learn that their actions they have consequences, 327 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 10: and the consequences are when they get everything gets into 328 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 10: the public and the tourist start up coming again, because 329 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 10: then the others we might also be turning against him 330 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 10: and say stop it because you're also interfering in our 331 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 10: business vid your behavior. But without a minimum of transparency 332 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 10: to how or Thailand will not proceed into a better 333 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 10: touristic future. That's the way I see it. 334 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 335 00:17:46,560 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: a moment. As we dig deeper, find even more mysterious 336 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: deaths on pTau. 337 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 2: So tourists are dying, and the local authorities on Kotel 338 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 2: seemed to be covering it up at worst and at 339 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 2: best doing a lackluster job in investigating these mysterious deaths. Now, 340 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 2: to understand why the authorities have gone to such links 341 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 2: to try to protect the tourism industry on Kotau, we 342 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 2: need to look at the story of Anthony Cardulo in 343 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties. 344 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 3: Anthony Cardulo, or Tony Lotus as he was known on 345 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 3: the island, was a successful club promoter in Los Angeles 346 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 3: and Orange County, California. He went to Catao on vacation 347 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 3: and fell in love with the island and decided to 348 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 3: move there. And once he moved there, he quickly established 349 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 3: himself as a successful businessman on the island. 350 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 9: There was a guy I knew in California called the 351 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 9: Tony Cardulo. He was a nightclub promoter in Los Angeles 352 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 9: and Newport Beach. I lived in Newport Beach. That's where 353 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 9: I met him through some other friends. I told him 354 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 9: about this place and said, you know, you you got 355 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 9: to come and see this place. It's going to boom. 356 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 9: You know, it's a great place to go. It's a 357 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 9: nice place and if you do something there now, you 358 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 9: know in ten years time you'll make a lot of 359 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 9: money out of it. So I went to Bangkok, and 360 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 9: then he finally, after about ten days, showed up. 361 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: Patty Callahan was a good friend of Tony's. 362 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 9: This was the year two thousand. It was right after 363 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 9: New Year. Tony showed up and we went to Kotau. 364 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 9: Tony loved the place. He was just enthrall with it. 365 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 9: He thought it was like Disneyland. He said, oh, this 366 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 9: is Disneyland. And I stayed about, I know, six weeks. 367 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 9: At that time. We hung out on the island. Tony 368 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 9: took a dive course at one of these dive shops, 369 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 9: and then I left the island and went back to 370 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 9: Miami and then ended up moving to Norway. I stayed 371 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 9: in touch with Tony. 372 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: Tony loved Katau so much that he decided to make 373 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: it his new home. 374 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 9: Being a nightclub promoter, he took over one of the 375 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 9: bars that was on the main strip, which is called 376 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 9: Syre Beach. He took it over, renamed it and renamed himself. 377 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 9: He changed his name from Tony Cardo to Tony Lotus 378 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 9: and he called the bar the Lotus Bar. 379 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: The Lotus Bar soon became a huge hit with Westerners 380 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: who were traveling to Katao. 381 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 9: Obviously, the land is always owned by a Tye person. 382 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 9: The customers for the bar were all English speaking. There's 383 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 9: a lot of English on that island, quite a few 384 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 9: Americans and other Europeans, but I'd say more than fifty 385 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 9: percent more English. 386 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: Foreigners are not allowed to own or run businesses in 387 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: Katao without having a Thai business partner, so Tony had 388 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: to split ownership at the Lotus Bar with the Thai 389 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: local to run it legally. 390 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 9: It was getting busier and busy and busier. Tony called 391 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 9: me back up about I don't know three years later 392 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 9: and said, Wow, things are really happening here. I'm running 393 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 9: this bar on the beach and it was making a 394 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 9: lot of money. 395 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 10: Can you describe the bar like? 396 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 2: What did he bring from his experience in the US 397 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 2: that changed say that sort of small type borrow that 398 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 2: was there previously to what he brought to the table. 399 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,239 Speaker 9: Tony promoted it made it into something much bigger than 400 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 9: it was. He was a great promoter. What he would 401 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 9: do is a good looking guy, young guy. He'd go 402 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 9: out and needed to get all the girls to come 403 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 9: to the bar. And if the girls come, then he'd 404 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 9: get the guys to come. He would do drink specials. 405 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 9: He'd do wet t shirt contests, they did all these things. 406 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 9: They had these fire dancers on the beach and stuff 407 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 9: like that, to do things that the local ties wouldn't 408 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 9: think of. To pack the place, and I think he 409 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 9: made that probably the most popular place in town. 410 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: Tony and the Lotus Club were bringing in a lot 411 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: of money, and Tony was known to party hard with 412 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: the patrons. 413 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 9: He probably had crowds of three four hundred basically showing 414 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 9: up at sunset and drinking till two in the morning, 415 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 9: probably spending you know, the equivalent of thirty forty fifty 416 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 9: bucks each. So there was a lot of money going 417 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 9: through there. He mentioned that he had made maybe a million, 418 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 9: million and a half dollars over six or seven years, 419 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 9: eight years, so it's quite good money. 420 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: Soup Buchanan new Tony and the Lotus Bar. 421 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 4: The Lotus Bar was really successful, really really successful. 422 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 7: Well tell me about the bar. 423 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 5: It just a really. 424 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 4: Really popular bar and it was one of the few 425 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 4: bars where lots of people from different dive schools would 426 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 4: go and mix together. 427 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: But Patty saw signs that running a successful business as 428 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: a foreigner on Katau came with its challenges. 429 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 9: Some other friend of ours went over there and opened 430 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 9: a sandwich shop, but left after a couple of years. 431 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 9: He told me he'd been threatened or bullied by the locals. 432 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 1: Patty began to notice a change on the island. 433 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 9: Even in the time between nineteen ninety seven the first 434 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 9: one went there and then two thousand, things had started 435 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 9: to change on Kotau. There was already a whorehouse at 436 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 9: open and you know, and there was a lot more 437 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 9: kind of going on. There was a group of kind 438 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 9: of gangsters. I can't remember what the place was called, 439 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 9: but there was this group of gangsters that told drugs 440 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 9: on the island. I think it was called Banana something 441 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 9: that I can't remember what it's called, but you could 442 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 9: tell it was changing. 443 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: One day, Patty got a call from Tony. 444 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 9: He called me up and told me that he had 445 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 9: half a million dollars in cash. He wanted to get 446 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 9: it out of tailand and do something with it, and 447 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 9: he was thinking about buying gold, and he was asking 448 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 9: me for some advice about someone we knew that dealt 449 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 9: in gold. But the point was that he had quite 450 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 9: a lot of cash hanging around. 451 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 2: And when he talked about wanting to buy gold, what 452 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 2: went through your mind? 453 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 9: I just wondered, you know, I thought, well, if you've 454 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 9: got half a million dollars, is it in a bank 455 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 9: account or is it in a is it in a 456 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 9: shoe box under his bed? And how is he going 457 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 9: to get that into the US? And you know, how 458 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 9: did he manage to get that much money without someone 459 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 9: stealing it off him? I mean a lot of other 460 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 9: people were making money on that island, but there were 461 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 9: a lot of people who didn't have any money on 462 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 9: that island. So if you're a foreigner, you're very vulnerable. 463 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 9: So when Tony was in Newport Beach, he had this money, 464 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 9: and then I missed him. I didn't see him. He 465 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 9: went back to Thailand, and then I got a call 466 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 9: a week later saying that he was found dead in 467 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,479 Speaker 9: his house and that the door or window had been 468 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 9: broken in. And the first thing that came into my 469 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 9: mind was, Yeah, somebody's somebody's done him. 470 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: In Ty police reported that Tony died of a drug overdose, 471 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: but Patty had trouble believing that. 472 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 9: Tony was a party character. He drank a lot, he 473 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 9: did take these kind of speed tablets, but it was 474 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 9: also really he was a healthy guy. He was quite 475 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 9: a sporty guy. He didn't seem to me like the 476 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 9: kind of guy I was just going to drop dead. 477 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 9: But you know, people can have hard stacks and die, 478 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 9: so there's a possibility because he died of the natural causes. 479 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 9: But when I heard about it, I thought instantly it 480 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 9: just occurred to me that somebody had done him in 481 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 9: to take over his business. You know, I looked at 482 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 9: the website for the Lotus Barn and there was no 483 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 9: sort of announcement that he had died or anything like that. 484 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 9: It just sort of carried on. So it all felt 485 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 9: a bit suspicious. 486 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: But who would want to take over the Lotus Club? 487 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: Did Tony's tie business partner want to muscle him out 488 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: of the business. We've been referring to the Katau Mafia 489 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: a lot in this podcast as a reminder there are 490 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: several powerful families who make up what's known as the mafia. 491 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: Documentary filmmaker Tomstone explains. 492 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 8: Those families who were first on the island have benefited 493 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 8: enormously from them. They owned most of the lands, they 494 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,479 Speaker 8: owned most of the properties, they employed most of the people. 495 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 9: They have done very very well financially out of it. 496 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: Connor continued speaking with Tony Lotus's friend Patty Callahan. 497 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 2: Was he a flashy guy and was he the type 498 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 2: of guy to buy expensive watches or jewelry or throw 499 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 2: money around in the bar? 500 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 9: No, not really. I don't remember him being flashy. He's 501 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 9: like one of the guys you know, he'd just been 502 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 9: You just think he was a normal guy. He might 503 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 9: flash money around in Bangkok maybe, but I don't see 504 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 9: him doing that in Kotel. But one of his friends 505 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 9: did mention to me that people were a bit jealous 506 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 9: of him because he built quite a nice house, and 507 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 9: you know that would make you look. You know, people 508 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 9: knew he had money. I mean, you can't hide it. 509 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 9: It's a small place. 510 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 2: Do you think he's the type of person who in 511 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 2: that line of business would face threat. 512 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 9: He must have been quite smart in how he was 513 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 9: dealing with things. I mean, they would have taken his 514 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 9: money well before that. Even you know, they don't have 515 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 9: to kill him to take his money. They could just say, 516 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 9: you know, you got to leave. 517 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: What if Tony was threatened and didn't listen most. 518 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,239 Speaker 2: Ten years later after he died, But there's been a 519 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 2: string of deaths murder unexplained disappearances. Knowing what you know, now, 520 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 2: do you think it's more or less likely that there 521 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 2: was something suspicious about his death. 522 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 9: I think it's more likely because if you look at 523 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 9: the sort of pattern of how things happen down there, 524 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 9: if you look at the rival islands like Copenyang, right, 525 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 9: I think what happens is a few guys open little 526 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 9: bars on the beach. They have a little restaurant or 527 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 9: something that's going well. It gets bigger, it gets bigger, 528 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 9: and then as soon as they're serious money, these guys 529 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 9: they show up and they come in and they say 530 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 9: I want thirty or whatever. You're going to pay me, 531 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 9: that's it, and if you don't, they kill you. It's 532 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 9: the the end of the story. I met a guy 533 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 9: around a bar up in northern Thailand at that time, 534 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 9: and he said, yeah, I have protection from the army. 535 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 9: If I didn't have that, i'd be kicked out or 536 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 9: killed right away. And I pay them every month. That's 537 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 9: what you do, otherwise you can't survive. So Turning must 538 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 9: have had some connections or done something to protect himself 539 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 9: to a certain extent for a certain amount of time. 540 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 9: The stories that I heard about the island was that 541 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 9: the ty police, quite frankly, are completely corrupt. That's the 542 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:14,959 Speaker 9: way it is. 543 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 1: Why would Tony have five hundred thousand dollars that he 544 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: would want to get out of Catau and convert into gold? 545 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: Was it brade money that he was having second thoughts about? 546 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 1: Was he trying to protect his money or was he 547 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: potentially acting erradically because of a drug habit. 548 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 2: If we're sort of being honest about his death, do 549 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 2: you think it's as likely that he died or possible 550 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 2: that he died from just drugs and alcohol and had 551 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 2: a heart attack or a stroke or something like that, 552 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 2: or there was something more nefarious at play. 553 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 9: You know, when I first heard about it, I thought 554 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 9: eighty percent something happened. Somebody did something to kill him. 555 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 9: It's perfectly easy to put something in someone's drink or 556 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 9: to poison them in some way, to you know, break 557 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 9: break into their lace when they're unconscious, and maybe they 558 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 9: put a pillow over his head or something. You know, 559 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 9: it's quite easy for that shit to happen, and I 560 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 9: have no doubt that that that's a very strong possibility. 561 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 9: The other side is, okay, maybe he was super drunk, 562 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 9: He did a load of drugs, he lost his keys, 563 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 9: and he broke into his own house and passed out 564 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 9: and had a heart stack and died. You know, I 565 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 9: mean that's possible. I'd say seventy percent something happened to him, 566 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 9: he was murdered, and thirty percent he had a hardtack. 567 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,959 Speaker 7: Tony Cardilla's death. Did that raise any eyebrows? 568 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 4: It was just like wh he just wondered who he 569 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 4: pissed off? I wonder who he's upset with. 570 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 2: Tony's death. There were rumors that it was a business argument. 571 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: Do you ever have any sense later of what what 572 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 2: was the reason? 573 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 5: All I was told was he just pissed the wrong 574 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 5: person off. 575 00:29:53,560 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another break. There are so many 576 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: unanswered questions in Tony Lotus's death, but from our research, 577 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be the first or the last time someone 578 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: crossed the time afia and didn't live to tell the tale. 579 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 9: I'd be very interested to go there and start asking 580 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 9: questions and see what the reaction was. 581 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 2: Would you fear for your life at all asking questions here? 582 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 9: I think you'd have to be very careful. It's a 583 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 9: small island. They can't just go around murdering everybody. It's 584 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 9: too obvious. You know, they mean, no one left. But 585 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,719 Speaker 9: what they can do is they can beat you up. 586 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 9: They can threaten and threaten you, they can tell you 587 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 9: to leave, and they will do that. Even when I 588 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 9: was there, most of the families who ran an operation, 589 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 9: they all had like a hard man, a guy from 590 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 9: Bangkok who was an ex you know, Mui Thai boxer 591 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 9: professional who worked for them, and his job was, you know, 592 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 9: general stuff. But for instance, I heard a story once 593 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 9: back in the old days that somebody they build these 594 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 9: little bamboo shacks and they tell them the tourists, you 595 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 9: don't smoke in the shack. And a tourist did that. 596 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 9: He was smoking in the shack, and he set fire 597 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 9: to it and burned it down. They chased him down 598 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 9: and threatened to beat him and held him hostage until 599 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 9: he paid for that shack. You know, it wasn't like, oh, 600 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 9: this is a mistake, and these were nice guys. 601 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: Tony Lotus and Ben Harrington are two of dozens of 602 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: mysterious deaths on Catau. The beauty of the island draws 603 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: people from all parts of the world, but why is 604 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: it that so many never leave? 605 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 9: It was absolutely beautiful and nice place. Money brings gangsters, 606 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 9: and that changes things. But if you're a tourist in 607 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 9: that place, I think it's probably completely safe. If you're 608 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 9: asking questions or going, you know, trying to dig up 609 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 9: stuff about things that are a bit suspicious, then you 610 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 9: might get into problems. If you want to go there 611 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 9: and start a business, I'd be extremely careful. I'd be 612 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 9: very careful to make sure you knew who you were 613 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 9: supposed to pay off and not pay off, and I'd 614 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 9: find out what was happening. 615 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 3: If there's anyone else you think that might know something 616 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 3: that we should ask. 617 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 9: I remember some guys that were working there back in 618 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 9: those days. You can get in touch with these guys 619 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 9: who anyone who stayed there or was there for the 620 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 9: next ten years. There was an English guy I remember 621 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 9: it was a dive instructor. He worked at There's one place, 622 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,479 Speaker 9: and then he started a restaurant in town. And there 623 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 9: were guys there who know everything that's going on. And 624 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 9: I remember the guy who ran the dive shop down 625 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 9: there as a German guy called Olaf. Guys like that 626 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 9: they knew everybody, They knew exactly what was going on. 627 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 9: They've been on the island for many years. If you 628 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 9: could find one of those guys who was no longer 629 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 9: on the island, that they might have all kinds of 630 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 9: information about stuff that was happening. 631 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: As we dig deeper into Katao's history, we find we 632 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: are only scratching this surface of the violence on this 633 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: idyllic island. 634 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 4: Well, I was told that he'd been schmoozing one of 635 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 4: the Twitchyan family's girlfriends. 636 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 5: In the bar. 637 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 2: And is that something that could get you killed? 638 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 6: Hell? 639 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, jizez, you can look at someone in Thailand the 640 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 4: wrong way and it will get you killed. 641 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 5: I mean yeah, it doesn't take. 642 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: Much more on that next time. If you have any 643 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: information about Ben Harrington and Tony Lotus, please contact us 644 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: at producers at katdash studios dot com. For more information 645 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at KT Underscore Studios. 646 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: Death Island is produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Connor Powell, Andrew Arnell, 647 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, Chris Caccaro, Gabriel Christillo, and me Courtney Armstrong. 648 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Toi. Music by vanikor Music. 649 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: Death Island is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. 650 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: For more podcast from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 651 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.