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Speaker 1: What up you've boy, Doug Godli, but here welcome in.

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Speaker 1: This is all ball, all basketball, all the time. My

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Speaker 1: guest this week is Pete Lisicki. Uh. Pete was three

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Speaker 1: time All Big Ten, legendary player in Europe. Now he

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Speaker 1: does financial advising and uh, I think it's Scottsdale. He's

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Speaker 1: gonna join us. Some awesome stories about playing overseas and

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Speaker 1: sometimes getting your money and sometimes not getting your money.

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Speaker 1: Um our thoughts in the college system, his thoughts on

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Speaker 1: Penn State and what what what happened there in the

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Speaker 1: football program and did he know anything about it? Like,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot I want to dig in with. Plus

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Speaker 1: we got some talk about that nowadays in the NBA.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of nowadays in the NBA, dude, Damian Lillard sixty one,

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Speaker 1: Maybe Pat Beverley shouldn't talk ship to that line right

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Speaker 1: that that is rattling his cage much the way he

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Speaker 1: rattled Kevin Durant's cage. Remember the don't you know who

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Speaker 1: I am? I'm Kevin Durant. And he goes and drops

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Speaker 1: fifty and forty five in the last two games. So, um, look, look,

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Speaker 1: I think Lillard's awesome. He's an amazing shot. Maker. I

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Speaker 1: thought Dallas was embarrassing with their with their defense, specifically

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Speaker 1: Christaps Perzingis. They just went at time and again. And

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Speaker 1: it wasn't that he wasn't effective. It's that one he

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Speaker 1: looks far less athletic than he did before he heard

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Speaker 1: his knee, and two just didn't look competitive at times,

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Speaker 1: just dying behind you know, uh Nurkic who's posting him

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Speaker 1: up or pushes him around, just really really soft, really soft.

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Speaker 1: But Lillard is amazing, an amazing shotmaker. When he gets

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Speaker 1: the line of ton, that's when he really eats. You

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Speaker 1: look at when he had you know when it when

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Speaker 1: he had sixty early the season, sixteen free throws. When

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Speaker 1: he had sixty one, he had eighteen free throws and

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Speaker 1: made all eighteen. So some of it is he's as

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Speaker 1: great as shooters he is. It's gotta gotta get to

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Speaker 1: the free throw line and when he does, he obviously

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Speaker 1: makes a ton. It also points to the fact that

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Speaker 1: he had times was not playing that well this season.

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Speaker 1: I know they had injuries to college and the Nurkics,

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Speaker 1: but he wasn't playing that well. And that's one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons that you know, even before and after those injuries,

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Speaker 1: they struggled so muchily Ah, but he's been amazing. I

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Speaker 1: think the guys that are all about ball have been

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Speaker 1: really really good. That's I mean. You look at t J. Warren,

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Speaker 1: he's just a bucket getter. You look at Um and

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Speaker 1: any of these guys are on the All Bubble Team, right,

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Speaker 1: They're just they're guys that are all about basketball. And

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Speaker 1: for people who keep asking, well, why are they letting

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Speaker 1: you know, hangers, honors and friends and family down there,

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Speaker 1: They've been down there for two months Nowagan the slog

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Speaker 1: you know, you need a little bit of a distraction

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Speaker 1: because I have been told by some people down there

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Speaker 1: it's a little bit boring and a little bit mundane.

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't stop the Devin Booker from lightening it up.

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Speaker 1: That hasn't stopped Damian Lillard from lighting it up, or

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Speaker 1: t J Warren from lightening up those guys, even Um

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Speaker 1: Michael Porter Jr. Has been You know, when guys get

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Speaker 1: to cut away all the nonsense, noise and distraction just

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Speaker 1: play basketball there, their talent comes out. We do have

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Speaker 1: a tendency to chase box scores. Lillard's a worthy box score,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes we only focus on who scores the most points. Um. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: a Lonzo has been disappointing. I think Zion has been

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Speaker 1: disappointed the whole Pelicans thing. But when when a Lonzo

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Speaker 1: really doesn't play well as the point guard, can't shoot,

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Speaker 1: not making plays, doesn't look sharp at all. And he's

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Speaker 1: the guy that you would think all about basketball, cut

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Speaker 1: out anything the home stuff, he should be great. He hasn't.

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Speaker 1: That that's been alarming if you're Pelicans guy, you know,

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Speaker 1: and thinking they're gonna turn the corner in the future,

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Speaker 1: not just Zion's weight problem, but lonzo balls regression, if

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Speaker 1: anything in the bubble. All right, we'll get the more

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Speaker 1: of that. I give some thoughts on the Lakers and

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Speaker 1: whether or not they'll have a problem with the Blazer's upcoming.

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Speaker 1: But let's dig in on a great conversation with Pete Lasiki.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug

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Speaker 1: Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific

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Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio. Ah

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Speaker 1: app Okay, So Pete la Siki joins us. He's a

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Speaker 1: penn State legend, a euro a euro League legend, and

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Speaker 1: um um I would say the it's funny you sent

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Speaker 1: me the video of when we played against each other

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Speaker 1: in Las Vegas in the summer of I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that was I'm trying to think of that as

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Speaker 1: the North of the South gym. What was what was

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Speaker 1: the name of your what was the name of your

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Speaker 1: AU team? In time, we were in the Philly the

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia Freedom, And yeah, it was an auxiliary gym at

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Speaker 1: the U n O V campus. But not it's not

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Speaker 1: where they do the NBA Summer League now, the new

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Speaker 1: the newer gym, that's for sure. No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: But North and South that's where all the that was

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Speaker 1: where the big it was. The national John Farrell's National

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Speaker 1: Championship was that was what that tournament was. Who's on

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Speaker 1: your who's on your squad? Oh gosh, you're taking me

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Speaker 1: back of note of note, I mean, if you want

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Speaker 1: to shout out your boy or whatever, that's fine, your

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Speaker 1: boys or whatever, that's fine. Johnny Miller was the biggest

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Speaker 1: name now. He played originally at Temple and then transferred

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Speaker 1: to Clemson or vice versa. We had Trevor Johnson to

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Speaker 1: played a sal um we had. I would say, of

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Speaker 1: of all the a U teams, I played on maybe

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Speaker 1: not the biggest depths of talent, and you guys, you

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Speaker 1: guys maybe had on paper and on the floor evidence

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Speaker 1: of that. With the amount of talent. What's what's interesting

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Speaker 1: was and our so our team was had Jarre Henderson. Um,

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Speaker 1: we had Christon Johnson they both played a U C.

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Speaker 1: L A. Obviously Chris Johnson. Um, we have Tony Gonzalez,

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Speaker 1: who was a stud I'm trying to think who else

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Speaker 1: we had that was that year you somehow you somehow

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Speaker 1: had Charlie Miller who was from that Yeah, we had

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Speaker 1: Charlie Indiana. Yeah. Yeah, so Fluke stayed with us. Um.

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Speaker 1: Actually that's Frank Martin was was the reason why Frank

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Speaker 1: Martin and um, um he was an assistant coach at

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Speaker 1: Miami Senior High School and uh, what's his name, Shaky

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Speaker 1: Rodriguez was the head coach and my dad knew Shaky

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Speaker 1: you whatever, And so Fluke stayed stayed with us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there you go. So, so yeah, we had we had

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Speaker 1: we had Charlie Miller. That's funny. I forgot he one time.

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Speaker 1: We had um like two summers before, we had Ronnie

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Speaker 1: Henderson who went to l U. Yeah, and Roman Rubchenkos

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Speaker 1: from the Ukraine, and they were My dad had known

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Speaker 1: you know, Dale Brown for forever, and Dale had basically,

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Speaker 1: you know, given my dad both with the idea of,

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Speaker 1: you know, a steer him towards L s U. I

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Speaker 1: guess or I think I don't there they weren't already committed,

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Speaker 1: but Roman end up going to L s U. And

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Speaker 1: I'll never forget. I came home from a basketball camp,

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Speaker 1: like a superstar basketball camp in Santa Barbara, and they're

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Speaker 1: both in my house and Roman, who's from the Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: was like, hello, my name is Roman, that this running

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Speaker 1: he is from Mississippi. I cannot understand a word, he says.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I have all my experiences of trying to

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Speaker 1: speak English, but then I toned it down for a

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Speaker 1: non English and native of years so that they can

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Speaker 1: get my my gist at least. Yeah. Um, okay. So

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Speaker 1: you grew up Allentown right with like seven brothers and sisters,

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Speaker 1: that is correct, big family and people always ask are

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Speaker 1: you Catholic or Mormon? And yet we're Catholic. But just

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Speaker 1: growing up, everybody had big families, so that didn't seem

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Speaker 1: so abnormal. Um um so, and and super athletic family too, right,

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Speaker 1: Like your brothers are Hooper's. Your sister was a cheerleader,

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Speaker 1: like what was so? So give me the family dynamic

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Speaker 1: of of of what it was like growing up in

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Speaker 1: Allentown in the eighties with your family. I won't go

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Speaker 1: into the Billy Joel song, but the yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: growing up it was, um, super competitive just to get

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Speaker 1: food at the dinner table with my mom made certain meals.

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Speaker 1: You knew that there was going to be a fight

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Speaker 1: that night. Did you guys make perogues? Because you're now

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, I feel like everybody in Pennsylvania has to

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Speaker 1: eat perogues. Oh. I was recently asked what's my favorite food?

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Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure I said pogies. Um, it's just

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Speaker 1: something that you can't get outside of the Lee Valley,

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Speaker 1: uh with with good quality. But yeah, growing up again,

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Speaker 1: it was I'm I'm the only mistake in the family.

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Speaker 1: So I'm five years after my sister. They were just

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Speaker 1: going to have my three older siblings after they had me,

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Speaker 1: and they said, well, you know, maybe Peter needs a playmate.

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Speaker 1: A younger twin brothers were born, and after that they said, oh,

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Speaker 1: what the heck? Ca and they had my two younger sisters.

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Speaker 1: But the again, the dynamic growing up, I mean, it

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Speaker 1: was a different time, but sports was whatever was in season,

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Speaker 1: that's what we were playing. And also because there were

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Speaker 1: so many of us, our mom was adamant about get

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Speaker 1: out of the house. So you know, we we learned

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Speaker 1: how to play together. We learned how to play whatever

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Speaker 1: was available. So I gave the example recently, we used

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Speaker 1: to crush a can and then we would play foot hockey.

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Speaker 1: So we would set up gold and and just whatever

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Speaker 1: to keep busy. But for sure, you know, going through

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Speaker 1: my my siblings, my oldest brother is seven years older

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Speaker 1: than I am. He played college basketball at University of Scranton,

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Speaker 1: that's uh, and they went to the Division three Final

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Speaker 1: four twice while he was in school. My my second

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Speaker 1: oldest brother, played football at University of Pennsylvania's and not

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Speaker 1: Penn State but the Ivy League school. UM my older

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Speaker 1: sister had great high school teams. She's five eleven, was

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Speaker 1: a very good basketball player. But just as she said

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Speaker 1: that that was enough after high school. UM my younger brother,

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Speaker 1: Gabe was a scholarship player at East Tennessee State in

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Speaker 1: the Southern Conference. UM and you said my sister was

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Speaker 1: a cheerleader, Well, it was actually my younger brother, Gabes

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Speaker 1: identical twin. Alex was a cheerleader at Penn State and

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Speaker 1: then at North Carolina. He transferred so super athletic. He

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Speaker 1: could do ten ten backflips in a row, where he's

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Speaker 1: the only one in the family that could do that.

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Speaker 1: And then the youngest sister of note, you know, just

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Speaker 1: talking about athletic, My youngest sister, Mary still has some

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Speaker 1: different records at Georgetown, so she had some really um

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Speaker 1: um good years, although as a team they didn't really

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Speaker 1: do much. Um you know, when you have Yukon in

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Speaker 1: the league, it's it's really tough. Why did you go

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Speaker 1: to Penn State? Why did I go to Penn State?

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Speaker 1: Coming up, Yeah, I started getting letters right after an

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Speaker 1: AU tournamentum in the summer between eighth grade and ninth grade,

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Speaker 1: so I had letters, you know, from all kinds of

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Speaker 1: schools and that doesn't mean much. But once I had

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Speaker 1: a really good freshman year and then I played in

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Speaker 1: a um A tournament down in Philadelphia in between freshman

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Speaker 1: year and sophomore year where I scored thirty seven and

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Speaker 1: every college coach was there. This is held in Kansha

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Speaker 1: Hocken every year still it's called the dinaf Real Classic

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Speaker 1: where a lot of regionally teams come in and and

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Speaker 1: after that is really when not things started to blow up.

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Speaker 1: I got invited to the Nike camp as an underclassman.

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Speaker 1: That's where I was teammates with Rashid Wallace and Allen

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Speaker 1: Iverson and Jeff Sheppard from Kentucky and you know I

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Speaker 1: could go on name and names, but um, that was

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Speaker 1: where Hey, I hung tough. I played pretty well at that.

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Speaker 1: So in my eyes, you know, I proved to myself

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Speaker 1: I can hang with the best. But you know I

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Speaker 1: still got to get better. And so I from my

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Speaker 1: older siblings process of looking at schools, I had a

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Speaker 1: great type of um example set for me that I knew, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I have to I have to be involved in this

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Speaker 1: and not just let the colleges fight over me. I

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Speaker 1: want to be, uh you know, a part of the

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Speaker 1: decision making process and not just you know, have basketball

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Speaker 1: controlling me. So I was whittling it down to, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what are the schools that one you know, they have

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Speaker 1: a great reputation for academics, Um, who are the school

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Speaker 1: that has stability. Who are the schools that have a

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Speaker 1: great point guard. I always kind of knew, like I

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Speaker 1: want to play with somebody that they'll pass me the ball, UM.

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Speaker 1: And and also that it was in the major conference.

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Speaker 1: And so I I whittled it down to one or

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Speaker 1: two schools in in all of the five major conferences

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Speaker 1: in Penn State, UM was the Big ten school. And

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Speaker 1: that was especially looking at the other list of schools

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Speaker 1: Villanova or U C. L A Or Florida. UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: you'd say, well, why Penn State? Especially back then there

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Speaker 1: was absolutely no tradition, There was absolutely no basketball history

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Speaker 1: at Penn State. They went to the Final Pour in

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Speaker 1: nineteen four. That was it. UM, And so the reason

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Speaker 1: was they were joining the Big Ten. UM. Danny Earle,

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Speaker 1: uh you may know. So Danny and I were teammates

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Speaker 1: a few times in the Sunny Hill League and Philly

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Speaker 1: in any of you teams, UM, and I knew that

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Speaker 1: he was committed to go there, and so that that

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Speaker 1: also helped kind of lead me in that direction. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I get to a certain point where it came

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Speaker 1: down to either I'm going to stay close to home

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Speaker 1: and play for Penn State, or I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: to a national powerhouse with a tradition and and maybe

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Speaker 1: you know every year have another All American or you know,

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Speaker 1: somebody that's really good coming in at my spot. But

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Speaker 1: the other choice with u c l A at that time, UM,

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Speaker 1: and at that time it was Jim Herrick and Mark

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Speaker 1: Godfried was kind of the point man for for my recruitment.

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Speaker 1: Five five guys, Doggie. We played the best five guys

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Speaker 1: regardless of position. U c l A post offense, not

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Speaker 1: the only offense, just the best, right, Like it's a

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Speaker 1: great day to be alive, pete. Considering the alternative that

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Speaker 1: was that was that was Herrick's lane when he when

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Speaker 1: you call it, I only spoke to a few times,

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Speaker 1: but yes, I remember he had a certain way of speaking.

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Speaker 1: But again, Godfried was the head man for me. He

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Speaker 1: was like, hey, I kind of identified with him. He

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Speaker 1: was down to earth to me at least. UM, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I knew that u c l A had

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Speaker 1: a great team and they had Tis Edney to me

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Speaker 1: watching him playoff, like man, that'd that'd be a great

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Speaker 1: guy to run with. UM. So again it said a

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Speaker 1: lot of the parameters that I set out for myself

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Speaker 1: and UM, when it came down to it, I just said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, Penn State was the first school to

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Speaker 1: officially offer me a scholarship as a sophomore. They said,

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Speaker 1: we don't care if you tear your a cl whatever

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Speaker 1: happens in the next two or three years, we want

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Speaker 1: you here. And and that commitment early on was was

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Speaker 1: meaningful to me. Um, you have an unbelievable career at

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Speaker 1: Penn State, right like and for people who don't recall,

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Speaker 1: like three time all big ten um at Penn State.

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Speaker 1: You guys went to the tournament obviously in nine Um uh,

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Speaker 1: you know what was? What was Jerry like to play for?

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Speaker 1: Jerry done like to play for? Well, Jerry took over

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Speaker 1: because the original coach, Parko, walked away a month before

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Speaker 1: the season started, and and you know, people had all

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Speaker 1: kinds of conspiracy theories is why he did it? But man,

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Speaker 1: you could tell Like the story I gave is we

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Speaker 1: beat Michigan my freshman year They had Ray Jackson and

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Speaker 1: Jimmy King left over, but then they had Maurice Taylor,

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Speaker 1: they had draw Ward. They had an amazing team and

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Speaker 1: we beat them by twenty And there was a couple

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Speaker 1: of turnovers in the last couple of minutes of that game.

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Speaker 1: So when we came into the locker room and Bruce

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Speaker 1: was livid and he was just not happy that we

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Speaker 1: had beaten Michigan for the first time in history. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's the where I was like, man, he just was

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Speaker 1: such a perfectionist. He was so stressed out, it seemed

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Speaker 1: all the time. And I think he'll admit to that.

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Speaker 1: And really that's the reason he gave was that he

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Speaker 1: just was. He was burnt out. And there might have

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Speaker 1: been some family things too. He had gone through a

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Speaker 1: divorce and his daughter Katie was, you know, splitting time

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Speaker 1: between him and his mom her mom. So again, Mike

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Speaker 1: Bruce walked away. Jerry, who was Bruce's longtime assistant, took over,

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Speaker 1: and um, I'd say, you know, from that point on,

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Speaker 1: I took a big quantum leap from my fresh mirror

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Speaker 1: to my software. In terms of my confidents. There was

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Speaker 1: a lot of things coming. You know, I played with

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Speaker 1: all those guys, like I said, in high school and

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Speaker 1: against them and saying, hey, you know, I feel like

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Speaker 1: I can do this. But then you get to college

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Speaker 1: and you've got to deal with so much. I mean,

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Speaker 1: from the first week of orientation to you know, living

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Speaker 1: away from mom and dad, to eating the right things

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Speaker 1: on the day to day basis, um, getting the class

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Speaker 1: on time, making sure you're doing your homework, getting the

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Speaker 1: study hall. I mean every day from six thirty am

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Speaker 1: to ten pm at night, I had to be somewhere

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Speaker 1: except on Sundays, and even on Sunday at night we

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Speaker 1: had study hall. So my oldest brother, you know, from

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Speaker 1: his time at a Division three school, he said, look,

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Speaker 1: if you can handle this schedule, if you can do

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Speaker 1: all of this, you'll be able to handle anything in life.

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Speaker 1: And I absolutely be looking back at what he said

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Speaker 1: to me, because I was able to handle it. But

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Speaker 1: the day after my freshman year ended, we lost in

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Speaker 1: the consolation game of the n I t UM. I

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Speaker 1: got mon mono nucleosis. So like in other words, like

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Speaker 1: I gave it everything I had, and the day after

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Speaker 1: and I never went out. I had no social life.

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Speaker 1: Really my my freshman year, I was like, all right,

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Speaker 1: you know, the springtime starting, it warms up in State

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Speaker 1: College above the cruising point of water. I was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm at least gonna go a frat party

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Speaker 1: on the weekend, right, And I get Mono, and I

327
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,200
Speaker 1: was toast. I lost fifteen pounds, UM, And maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: going off on the tangent here, but when I came

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Speaker 1: back from recovering from Mono, I was stronger. Um. I

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Speaker 1: went on a big ten tour of Japan and played

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Speaker 1: well under Randy Airs on that trip um with some

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Speaker 1: other good players, and I was like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I got it. I know what to do now. And

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Speaker 1: so sophomore year we had such an amazing We had

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Speaker 1: three fifth year seniors. We had such a depth of

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Speaker 1: talent on the team. Calvin Booth was starting after his

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Speaker 1: red shirt freshman year. If you're not you know, Calvin,

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Speaker 1: of course said Glenn Secundo was a it was a

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Speaker 1: Syracuse transfer as after John You've got it, You've got it.

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Speaker 1: Secunda was you know, fringe NBA player. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: we had just great leadership and and and again even

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Speaker 1: if Bruce left before that season started, we had just

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Speaker 1: a great team. I mean, looking back at it, UM,

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Speaker 1: the first nine players are so UM could have played professionally, obviously,

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Speaker 1: maybe not at the NBA level, but at various levels

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Speaker 1: beyond the NBA. And so to have that on a

347
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Speaker 1: divisional and basketball team that that says a lot. But again, uh,

348
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Speaker 1: you know, for for shooting for the defense. I mean

349
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Speaker 1: we had the big tens leaving shop blockers sitting behind us.

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Speaker 1: Um he was only two five pounds at the time.

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Speaker 1: We still have to put on some weight, but we

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Speaker 1: we had. We had a multifaceted, talented team and I

353
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Speaker 1: was our leading score um I really I never had

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Speaker 1: to put the ball on the ground. We had a

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Speaker 1: a motion offense where we passed, we moved. Um we

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Speaker 1: I think we were leaving the country in prepoint percentage

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Speaker 1: that year for quite a bit of the year. And

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Speaker 1: even though I had a bit of a downturn at

359
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Speaker 1: the end of the year, I ended up shooting from

360
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Speaker 1: three that year. So that that led me into being

361
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Speaker 1: named Honible Mention All American that season. UM I got

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Speaker 1: invited to the under twenty two national team tryouts, which

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Speaker 1: you know was formerly the Olympic team. UM after is

364
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,119
Speaker 1: always the pros, the dream team, Dream team too, etcetera.

365
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Speaker 1: But you know, I went out to Colorado Springs, played

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Speaker 1: very well in the three day tryout, played with some

367
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Speaker 1: great point guards. So being a West Coast guy, Cameron Dollar,

368
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Speaker 1: I remember they had me together with Cam and and

369
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Speaker 1: just for that game or two, I made everything. And so,

370
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Speaker 1: you know, over a bunch of guys that everybody would

371
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Speaker 1: recognize in their names. I got named to that fifteen

372
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Speaker 1: man squad, so you know, teammates with Tim Duncan, teammates

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Speaker 1: with Chauncey Billups and Paul Pierce. That's just an amazing

374
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Speaker 1: group of guys. And you know, I'm just going along

375
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Speaker 1: for the ride in some respects, but I'm also like,

376
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Speaker 1: all right, I want to get better. When you talk

377
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Speaker 1: about being better, what specific when when you went home

378
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Speaker 1: and you'd work out, Like, what did you do to

379
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Speaker 1: make your self a better player? I was recreating the

380
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 1: situations where I was uncomfortable. So you know, being in

381
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Speaker 1: a one on one on the wing with Chauncy in

382
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Speaker 1: Colorado Springs, I remember that distinctly. Or um, you know,

383
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Speaker 1: catching the ball and and here comes a guy that

384
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Speaker 1: I know is longer than I am and faster than me. Well,

385
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Speaker 1: how am I going to get an advantage? I'm going

386
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: to use my strength, which is my shot, and and

387
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 1: using fakes and angles two to try to again leverage

388
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,639
Speaker 1: what I'm good at, And that was always Hey, if

389
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 1: I'm open, I'm going to make the shot, so you know, quickness,

390
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 1: lateral stuff. Um, you know, those are the type of

391
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,199
Speaker 1: things that, especially at that point in my career, it

392
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 1: was being able to use my strengths to help out

393
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 1: my opportunity areas. And put it like that, do you

394
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 1: get done playing at Penn State? What what? Then? What? What?

395
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,680
Speaker 1: How did you like? Because you became an absolutely legendary

396
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 1: player overseas? But when you got done playing? What were

397
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,119
Speaker 1: your thoughts of playing date side? What was it like

398
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: when you were finished? So, finishing up my senior year,

399
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 1: we made it to the n i T Final four.

400
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 1: We lost in the championship game. Um, and throughout those

401
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 1: weeks I started to kind of reach out to people

402
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: to say, okay, you know, Glencakunda played a couple of

403
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: years ahead of me um and had been in Italy

404
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 1: doing well for himself. And so again I was reaching

405
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 1: out to the coaches and and just saying, okay, what

406
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 1: what should I look at when I'm thinking about the

407
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: next steps? And so I started to get materials even

408
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 1: before that threw the mail from a bunch of agents

409
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 1: and so the idea was, Okay, I think I'm a

410
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 1: pretty good player, but who'd act knows right, you got

411
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: to figure out where people think you stand. And so

412
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 1: I also was receiving letters from NBA teams, so just

413
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: questionnaires to say, okay, fill this out, we're interested in

414
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 1: you potentially to come in. Whether whether I would be

415
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: drafted or not, that wasn't necessarily a question, but definitely

416
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 1: for free agent camp. But if you recall, that was

417
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 1: and there was an NBA labor dispute that occurred that year,

418
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 1: so right after the day after the draft occurred, um

419
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 1: there was a lockout. And in that period of time

420
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: after my final game and the draft, I had signed

421
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: with an agent, Herbrew Doy based out of Chicago, who

422
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: was partnered with Luciano Capecioni and Lucky Is and was still,

423
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 1: i believe to today is the largest agent in Europe.

424
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 1: And he's the guy that brought over r V to Simonis.

425
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 1: Tony Coo coach'd same guy, had the same guy. So

426
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: it was a Herbert dot And and uh and and

427
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 1: Lucky as a Luciano was that the guy's name like

428
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: it was, it was the first names Luciano, but he

429
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: goes by Lucky. Yes, okay, Lucia, Luciano Luciano. It's a

430
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: here's can I give you? Let me give you my

431
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: so I was what you was that I graduate? Okay son,

432
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: so two thousand, I finish up right, and I'm kind

433
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: of same thing. And so I decided pretty early on

434
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 1: to go with redoy um And it was a guy

435
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 1: named Bill McCandless who was like an old school basketball agent. Yeah.

436
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: So Bill recruited me really really hard and um and

437
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 1: and their plan for me, frankly was like, hey, look,

438
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: you're getting Israeli passport. You'll be good. You can do

439
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: this thing fifteen twenty years. And when when you get

440
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 1: to a place to where you feel like you can

441
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: your confident you can make shots like we'll get we'll

442
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: give you shot stateside, like you know, we'll see so I.

443
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, let's have you play. I played

444
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: in usb L for you know, for a season, which

445
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: is great because you played like forty NBA games and

446
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: like forty NBA style games in like fifty days. Uh,

447
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: so you you know, it's like a different thing and

448
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 1: against a high level competition, but a totally different brand

449
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: of basketball in terms of what you learned. Um. The

450
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 1: downside tod that was I didn't have any workouts because

451
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: that was during the time of workouts, right, So I'm

452
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: the good thing is I'm playing against I'm playing against

453
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,199
Speaker 1: like grown ass men league dudes, you know, and with

454
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 1: league dudes that Sean Colson in those types. And the

455
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: downside is that I'm not doing the private workout, so

456
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: I got no shot really being drafted. Anyway, this is

457
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 1: my REJOI story. So that year was the year, and

458
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: I want to get back to hers, so I apologize. Um,

459
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: it was year they changed. They changed to a Bozeman

460
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 1: A and Bozeman B based upon your passport right, so

461
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: I was a Bosman b IF within Israeli passport. The

462
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: problem was that to play in Israel I would have

463
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 1: had I would have done as I would have been

464
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: a Bosman B not been in Israeli during for for

465
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: that year. Yeah, so it was um because the rule

466
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: like that's how Israel interpreted that year, and so that

467
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: means I instead of competing against other Israeli is where

468
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 1: I would have been more valuable or able to use.

469
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: So anyway, Um, so their plan was We're gonna form

470
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: a team and play in this new EuroLeague, and the

471
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: team is gonna play home games in St. Petersburg, Russia,

472
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: and we're gonna train in Veraise It. We're gonna train

473
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: in Veraise, Italy. You probably should have been on that team, right,

474
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: And so you're talking about okay, so um, so they're like,

475
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: all right, August fourteen camp starts and I'm like, cool,

476
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: I'm getting married in August. He's like, all right, honeymoon

477
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: in in Italy. Right, that's a Bill McCandless said, so,

478
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: or maybe it was like August sixteenth. So we get married.

479
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: We fly to Chicago because that's where Herbert Dooi is located.

480
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: And my wife always wanted to go to a Cubs game.

481
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: And so and this is when Sammy was big. We

482
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: we we land, we take a nap, We go to

483
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: a cub Is game Sunday night baseball against the Reds

484
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: ken Griffe Jr. Sammy actually tosses a ball to me,

485
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: and you know, he tossed the ball, you know, for

486
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: every evening. But there's a little six year old girl

487
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 1: something that had to sign up and said, Sammy, all

488
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: I want for my six birthday as a baseball So

489
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: I had to give it to her, Like right, you can't. Yeah.

490
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: So anyway, so the next day like herberdoise, like, hey,

491
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: come and have lunch with me. You know some spectacular

492
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: restaurant in Chicago. So we go, we sit down, wine

493
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: is poured amazing, and this is gonna be great. Hey,

494
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: I got good news and I got bad news. The

495
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: good news is, uh, camps not for two weeks, so

496
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: you guys can go on a honeymoon do whatever you want.

497
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: The bad news is that you can't take your wife

498
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: with you when you go to training camp because you're

499
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: gonna room with another guy. And I was like her,

500
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: with all due respect, like I just got married, I

501
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: don't have any money and I don't have a fucking

502
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 1: honeymoon planned, Like are you are you kidding me? And

503
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: then hey, I'm going to Italy and you can't come?

504
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: Like yeah, that that landed well. So that that was.

505
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: That was my first couple of days of marriage. I'll

506
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: tell you more about about that team in a moment. Okay, So,

507
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: so uh RUDOI and Lucky decide, all right, you're gonna

508
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: play overseas. Where was your first job. My first job

509
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 1: was in Treviso, Italy, which happens to be the hometown

510
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: of my grandmother. My Italian grandmother's family. So uh and

511
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: and at that time still Benetton Treviso was one of

512
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: the top five organizations in all of Europe. So I

513
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: looked at it as a great opportunity to play, you know,

514
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: especially with the lockout, you know, to to go to

515
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: free agent cancer. Playing in the NBA summer leagues was

516
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: on my radar, but if they weren't happening, the number

517
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: one pick of that draft, Michael All of Wakandi, was

518
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 1: also playing in Italy that season to start out anyway,

519
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: So again I looked at it as hey, I'm I'm

520
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: going to do this. But the great thing about it

521
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: was that, yes, um, I was in a great place,

522
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: a great organization, and my first two years of that

523
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: contract were a tie and maybe not millions of dollars

524
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 1: for your typical NBA contract or you know, the NBA minimum,

525
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: but not not too far off. So um, you know,

526
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: I started off in Troviewe, so I again played for

527
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: a great organization there. GM Mauriciol Guerardini still is one

528
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: of the top gms in Europe, has taken teams to

529
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: the early championship um. He was with the Toronto Raptors

530
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: for a number of years, but then came back to

531
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: Europe and my head coach that year was Zelico Obradovich,

532
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: who is the most successful FIBA coach probably in all

533
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: of history if you look him up. So again, I

534
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,479
Speaker 1: I got there, I didn't know what to expect. Like

535
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: you said, there's a lot of things that you just

536
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: don't know until you go through it, and a lot

537
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: of things in Europe you'd say it's not professional, right,

538
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: there's things that are just not reasonable where um, you

539
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: know if we did it in the States, uh, people

540
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: would really complain there. You just have to say, well,

541
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: I'm a crossby pond, what am I going to do

542
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: about this? And that really into play with again, a

543
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: lot of dynamics in a quote unquote professional sports organization,

544
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: and there's just some dudes that can't can't hang right

545
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: Like That's one of the things about Yeah, my first month.

546
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: First of all, it was one of the hottest augustum

547
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: in Italian history. They don't have air conditioning there, so

548
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: just sleeping at night and I'm sticking to my sheets.

549
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: I have my front door and my bedroom window wide

550
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: open just to create a draft. Um. And also the

551
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: entire country of Italy takes the month off, you know,

552
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: August her Son Agostino, which is a holiday where all

553
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: shops and most restaurants closed down. So to to get

554
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: through that took a lot of i'd say mental fortitude.

555
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: That for a lot of Americans, I'd say the heck

556
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: with this, what am I doing here? But I just said, hey,

557
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: they just gave me a few million Italian leri in

558
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: an envelope for for being here to play basketball. So

559
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: it was I never forget. So, so my team was

560
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: to St. Petersburg Lions. I am familiar with the team.

561
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: I think he played with some of my ex teammates,

562
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: like Marco Virginella, if you did go Yeah, So I

563
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: went to Yeah. So Keith Jennings was on the team,

564
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: Derrick Hamilton's. So those are the two Americans, Keith Hamilton's

565
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: and uh, Keith Hamilton's And assume me Derrick Hamilton and

566
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: Keith Jennings. Mr Jennings people remember from each Tennessee. So

567
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: so I I never forget that. I get there and

568
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: we're staying at this cool kind of hotel overlooking Lake

569
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: Cuomo in Italy, and like this is pretty amazing, right,

570
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: and like these two dudes are old pros old vets.

571
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: So they have DVDs like we watched Belly, like every

572
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: every like cool black movie. I watched five times over

573
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: un there on like a DVD player that I borrowed

574
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: from them. And then yeah there was who else was

575
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: there that you would know? Um, I think step yeah,

576
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: Stepan Sta just played. Yeah, he was he was, he

577
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: was young. I think at the time he's young and

578
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: he's an idiot. But yeah, yes, that's right, that's that's

579
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: a good that's a good member. We were, we were

580
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: two of the young guys. But he had played a

581
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: little bit in Italy and Treviso before that, right, So

582
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: do you play with you know that was before you? Yes,

583
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: my first year as I called him and I were

584
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: both you know, rookies, along with Billy de Spalt who

585
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: played at Vanderbilt. That's crazy, that's crazy. How did you? Yeah? So, so,

586
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: so here's my here's my kind of nightmare scenario. Right so,

587
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: and I don't know if I've told this story in

588
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: a podcast, so um so, uh, lucky he's running the team.

589
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: I'm talking with Bill McCanless obviously in Herbert Dot and

590
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: the idea of the team was we're gonna have you

591
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: play in this EuroLeague, in this sup Pro league right

592
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: for maybe half the season, and when you guys don't

593
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: make it to advance, everybody's gonna get picked up and

594
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: play elsewhere in the meantime. Like in the meantime, like

595
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: we're paying you, but we're actually paying you o the

596
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: money you're paying us. So it kind of like works.

597
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: That was kind of wink wink, non nodeal. And so

598
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't very much money, like it was like fifty

599
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: grand for half a year or something. Um, so I

600
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: had to go get my Israeli passport. So I trained

601
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: and the coach was uh, some Yugoslavian dude, uh the Kosovich,

602
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: the Kostovich or whatever. And I thought he was pretty cool.

603
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: I don't think he'd liked me because I was a

604
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: little guard and he liked big guards, except for Mr

605
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: Jennings because he played in the NBA. And but like

606
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: we practiced behind the back passes. There was like all

607
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: kinds of ship that I was like, damn, like this

608
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: is kind of cool. Um, yes, so I fly to

609
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: Israel to get my Israeli passport. I land. I'm exhausted.

610
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: I've been doing two days and scrimmages with this team,

611
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, hardcore Yugoslavinan dudes are work now.

612
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: So I land in Israel and this uh I meet

613
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: with this older and younger Israeli agent and they're like, okay,

614
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: now we're gonna take you too, basically like immigration and

615
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: you're gonna get yours really passport. So I wait in

616
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: this long line. I got all my paperwork and they

617
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: didn't really tell me anything. And I get to the

618
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: front of the line and they're like, um, okay, you

619
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: have to go in this room and you're meeting with

620
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: the director. So I meet with the director of like Aliyah,

621
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: which I'll making ali A means you're like becoming an

622
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: Israeli citizen dual citizenship. And I sit down and the

623
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: woman says, Mr Goodlip, where do you live? And I

624
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: was like, well, currently I reside in veraise A, Italy.

625
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: She's like currently. It was like, well, I moved there

626
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: from from Stillwater, Oklahoma. And now I'm playing professional like

627
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: I was just being honest right, Like I didn't know right,

628
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: so and and she's like, when do you plan to

629
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: live in Israel's like and now all of a sudden,

630
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: now the wheel starts spinning, and I was like, well,

631
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: it's the day the season is over. Then I'm gonna

632
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: come and live in Israel. And I like to play

633
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: in Israel, but you know, I need to start to

634
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: process of Aliya and get my passport. And she was like,

635
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: this is not that you must live in Israel for

636
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: one year while obtaining alia I was like what, and

637
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: so like I get basically right there, like also my

638
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: life passed for my eyes. I can't be Israeli anywhere.

639
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: And they had been telling me I could play everywhere

640
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: as in Israeli. So then they take me from that

641
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: very moment. They're like I tell him what happened, and like, oh, ship,

642
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: maybe you gotta play in Israel. They take me to

643
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: a practice for a pro A team in Israel and

644
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,720
Speaker 1: like again, remember I've I've had like a cup of coffee.

645
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: I mean I maybe had some Danish or something like

646
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: that when I landed. And and now they're like, hey,

647
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 1: you must go play and show yourself, and my head spinning.

648
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I haven't called my wife and

649
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: told her what was happening. And you know, she's thinking

650
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: we're moving to maybe Russia, maybe Italy. I don't know

651
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: what she's you know, what's even going on? And so

652
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: I I wasn't very good, um so like and like

653
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: that was like a thirty grand forty grand a year job,

654
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 1: some shitty job in Israel. And then I had to

655
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 1: fly back to verise A, Italy. And when I landed,

656
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: like nobody picked me up. I took a cab to

657
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: veraise A and then I walked to the hotel like

658
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: I feel like just the most beaten me. Then it

659
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: starts raining, like it literally starts raining. And then what

660
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 1: had been entertaining was the bus driver that would drive

661
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: us from practice to the hotel and back, you know,

662
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: like it was entertaining for a long time that like

663
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: he would at the at veraise As practice site, they

664
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: had a bar and he would have a couple of

665
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: drinks and he would be swerving like on the like,

666
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: and you were just like ah, you know, like when

667
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: it's not on like it, we'll be fine. But now

668
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: of a sudden, like now I gotta so now like

669
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: I go to my room, I put my stuff back down,

670
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: I take a shower, and now I got practice, and

671
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: I get in the bus with some fucking drunk bus

672
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: driver knowing that I'm gonna get cut because they can't

673
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: keep three Americans and you know they're not gonna They're

674
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: not gonna keep me and get rid of Mr Jennings.

675
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: You know, it's like a million dollar dude, Like that's

676
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: not gonna happen. I was just a bad place. And

677
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: then I flew home and uh, And I actually had

678
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: during my time in Italy. I had left and done

679
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 1: a gone to Lakers Vet mini camp and flown back

680
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: and I thought the coach kind of thought. I thought

681
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: it was a douchey move you and that was set

682
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: up by my agent everything. Um. Anyway, I flew home

683
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: from Milan to Los Angeles and I was literally in

684
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: or maybe to New York, and I was literally in

685
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: like the very very back all the way to the

686
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: right seat, like and there was no arm rest on

687
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 1: on the windows side. And I'm like, if this isn't

688
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: the if this isn't the end, Like, I don't know,

689
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: this isn't bottom of the barrel. I don't know what

690
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: it's like. Oh I got that for you. You do

691
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: go give me you give me a worst story. Oh gosh, no,

692
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 1: it's well. I played eleven years ago. So that first

693
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 1: year was one of the most professional years and I

694
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: you know, we got picked up. We had a deal

695
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: with Nike Benetton trevis So the Benetton is a world

696
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: fashion um brand. That again we had beautiful suitcases. They

697
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: gave us in suits, so wonderful experience. My next team

698
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 1: that I played for was in Switzerland. Beautiful country, wonderful place,

699
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: but the basketball was absolutely horrendous. We took bus rides

700
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: everywhere on the day of the game. So you know,

701
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: my first game ever was on Lake Geneva in a

702
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: town called Blown and it's near Geneva. We leave at

703
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: six in the morning. People. You know, I'm looking at

704
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: my teammates again coming from Trevisa, where we flew most

705
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: places um and if we did take a bus ride.

706
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: We went there the day before the game, got adjusted

707
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: to the city in the hotel and then you know,

708
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: had shoot around the morning of the game. But again Switzerland.

709
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: First game in Switzerland, I'm playing in front of twenty

710
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: seven fans in this rinky ding Jim and my one

711
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: teammate from Russia six ten Ego or Korf. He forgot

712
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: his shoots. There's no manager with some extra shoes like

713
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: we had at Penn State, so he had to borrow

714
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: some shoes from one of our teammates who also happened

715
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: to wear size sixteens. So, you know, like that just starting,

716
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: you know, from one of the first crazy stories of

717
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: where it starts to lose some of that quote unquote

718
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: professional medal to the to the the experience. But man,

719
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: I got so many from over the years that from

720
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: especially not being paid on time. I mean that happened

721
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: all the time. Teams will come up with excuses, we

722
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: just don't have liquidity now, or you know you we

723
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: need you to go sign something at the bank and

724
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: then we'll pay you later. Um. You know, I could

725
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: go on and on about the unprofessional parts of my experience,

726
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: but it was Here's one. Here's one. So I was

727
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: playing in Israel and I was playing from a Kabi

728
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: Ranana and Shrone Drewer, who I actually that was a

729
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 1: good coach, but he had coached my buddy Mouse. So

730
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: what's also interesting is that same trip where I went

731
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: and I worked out for one team. Then like I

732
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: was kind of stuck in Israel for a couple of

733
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: days and my my best friend in basketball is Simon

734
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: down in assisting with the Lakers, and Miles was Miles

735
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: was playing in Maccabi Ranana, and so I went and

736
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: stayed with him, and I was gonna maybe practice with

737
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: them whatever. And because I had played in the Maccabi games,

738
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: or I was gonna play in the Maccaby games. So

739
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: I think that next summer or whatever, I can't remember anyway,

740
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: So um, so I remember. So I when I played

741
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: for Maccabi. Um, I'd look at my check and I think,

742
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: I don't know what I was making, like seven or

743
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: eight a month or stuff like that, and it wouldn't

744
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: be the exact number, and the number would have this

745
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: great variance, and it would be I say, you're making

746
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 1: say you're making eight thousand dollars a month, right, and

747
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be just eight thousand dollars cash into

748
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: your account, whired into your account on the first of

749
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: every month, and then all of a sudden, like okay,

750
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: it wouldn't come in until it was the fourth or

751
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: the fifth, and instead of being eight thousand dollars, it

752
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: would be he's seven dollar was in five hundred and twelve,

753
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: you know, and then one month it would be seven thousand,

754
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:10,479
Speaker 1: six hundred and thirteen and then one month would yes, yes,

755
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: and they were like and then and I was, I

756
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: was like, are you so this this right? So this

757
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: is why this is? So I left that team in

758
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 1: March and here's why. So what happened was the year before,

759
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: like I said, Miles on the team, they actually played

760
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: in EuroLeague and they overspent and you know, so then

761
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: you know budget was tight whatever budgets, the budgets is

762
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: very tight. Mr goodleap anyway, so um, so you know

763
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: I'm playing and I was the way in Israel. So

764
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: then I'm playing as in Israeli. And we had two Americans,

765
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: Corey Car Jesse Salter's Corey Car got hurt. We brought

766
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: over Adrian Peterson, my teammate from college. So that was great.

767
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: But he was supposed to get his own apartment. He

768
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: lived with us. He was supposed to getting his own car.

769
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: He shared my car until I left. But it was

770
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: like so shady um, and then we had a car story.

771
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: Yeah go Jason Capel um so Jeff Capel's brother who

772
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: played at North Carolina. Jeff played at Duke. Jason Capel

773
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: six ft eight uh, my third last season overseas, we

774
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: were teammates in Avellino, Italy, and I was living in

775
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: a hotel for a few months. But that's besides this

776
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: car story. Um, but it is tied because Jason lived

777
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: down the street from the hotel. He drove a smart

778
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 1: car and he had to pick me up every day

779
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: for the five weeks that we were teammates. He got

780
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: hurt and ended up leaving Avelino. I inherited his smart car,

781
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: but every day six ft eight uh, Jason Capel would

782
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: pick me up six three and a half. And then

783
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: we also had to put our gym bags in there somehow,

784
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: and and we we we did it with flying colors

785
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: for for about five weeks. That's amazing. So I got

786
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: my car. It was get named Gudo. Bailey Guidome was

787
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: our equipment manager. And he brings me these keys to

788
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: this car and I still can't. I gotta remember what

789
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: the kind of car it was, just like, I mean,

790
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: it's basically a piece of ship. I can't. So he

791
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: brings me the keys to good good lib no quick.

792
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: I was like, what goodly No, He's like doing the

793
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: driving thing. No quick. It's like, oh don't drive no

794
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: no quick. It's like okay, no problem. You don't like

795
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: the car was there's a mouse inside pedaling that that's

796
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 1: how that thing right? Um? So yeah, So I I

797
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: go to them. I was like, what is the deal

798
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 1: that like, good liab, good liab? You are as really

799
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,919
Speaker 1: now this is this is normal we do basically the

800
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: the the the know, like the currency adjustment. I was like,

801
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: what they would wait until the currency was in their

802
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,479
Speaker 1: favor and then that's when they would wire the money

803
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 1: just to save you know, a couple hundred bucks. I

804
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: mean sometimes it was like, honestly like a hundred bucks

805
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: and I was like, are you fucking So my last

806
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: conversation with the president of the club, Um, you know,

807
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: I had a team in the A B A that

808
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: wanted me to come back and play, and you know,

809
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: I was getting ready to go play back in the

810
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: USBL in Oklahoma and make a get overpaid to play

811
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: on that thing because I was a little bit of

812
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: draw and this. And I go to the president to

813
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: the club and I was like listen, and so I

814
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: had because I was in Raeli I had a ten

815
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 1: month contract as opposed everybody else had an eight month contract.

816
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: Like everybody else would be tightened up the last day

817
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: of the regular season, you'd have to be paid everything.

818
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: And then if you go to the the playoffs, Yeah, mine

819
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: would have been May and June, and like we were

820
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: like in fourth or fifth place, and only the top

821
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: four teams went to the playoff, and we could have

822
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: been done in April, and I would have had to

823
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:35,439
Speaker 1: stay in May in June. And then if I would

824
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: have had to stay, I would have had to go

825
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: to like basic training. And I was like, funk that

826
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 1: I'm out of here. So so I go to the

827
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: President Club and I was like, listen, if you this

828
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 1: is where you're talking about being professional, If you will

829
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: give me your word as a man that you will

830
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: pay me every dollar that I'm owed on that contract,

831
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: I will stay, I will work, I have I will

832
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: not say another a word about money. And he's like, goodly,

833
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: we will do the best that we can. I was like,

834
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: no, no no, no, that's not no, that's not you're looking for.

835
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: That's not the answer. I said, Just give me, Just

836
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: give me your word as man, look me in the

837
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: eye and give me. You don't have design a piece

838
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: of paper and say as a man, I'm gonna get

839
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: you every penny that your own. You say that I'm

840
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: Here's like, we will do is the best is that

841
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: we can. It is a very difficult time. And I

842
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: was like, okay, March one is my last game. I

843
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: will be flying out of Ben Gurion and I will

844
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: arrange traveling. You guys will pay for it, right, So

845
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: that's I got paid on March. I made sure the

846
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: money went through March first, you know, and then I

847
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: got on a plane and I flew home. So that

848
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: was that. That's how my Israeli career. And do you

849
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: ever getna fight? Do you ever gonna fight? Multiple fights?

850
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 1: Multiple fights? Um? And I am not a big fighter,

851
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: but I will defend myself. And I can start to

852
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: rattle off names, but um, the one that comes to

853
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,760
Speaker 1: mind is and they were Americans involved. But I'm watching

854
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 1: uh Byron Mutan who won a national championship in Maryland.

855
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: So anyway, Byron is on the floor in Bamberg, Germany

856
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: getting pummeled and already we've been getting screwed by the

857
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: rest of the whole game. And I come over and

858
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: all I do is separate. I I push away the

859
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: guys from the other team. I get punched. I'm the

860
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: one that got kicked out of the game, and I'm

861
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:27,439
Speaker 1: the one that has the entire arena throwing ship at me. So, uh,

862
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: you know that one. And then I was up for

863
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: suspension for a few games and I said, just look

864
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: at the video, look at the I didn't do anything.

865
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: Eventually I was I was vindicated. But yeah, I definitely

866
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: had a number of fights over there, because especially from

867
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 1: country to country, that the officiating can be completely drastically different.

868
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: And in Poland, for example, you can get away with murder.

869
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: They just you can throw all those you can set

870
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: completely illegal picks and it's just part of the game.

871
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: And that does lead to some physical altercations that have

872
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: multiple times. Do you do you get the sense? Do

873
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: you do you? I don't know if you get the sense.

874
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: I always felt like and I still feel this way.

875
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: I don't think they respect the way we play basketball.

876
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: I think there's a bit of a and and and

877
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: to a certain extent, they might actually be right, Like,

878
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: you know, we make this big thing about the redeem team,

879
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: and they were challenged by Spain. There's no way anybody

880
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 1: who's picking teams would ever pick anybody on the Spanish

881
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: team ahead of anybody in the American team. But they

882
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: still made it very very competitive. And look, there's some

883
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: dirty ship they do, that dirty euro ship, you know,

884
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: where they're sneaky physical and sneaky cheap or whatever. But

885
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: I always felt like there's like they respect the talent

886
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: and athleticism, but they don't actually respect the way in

887
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: which we play basketball. And um, that's why when you

888
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: come over like they almost thumb their nose at you,

889
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: unless you want to do it their way, you're you're

890
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: getting on a big nail on the head that there

891
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: are number a number of rules that they interpret different.

892
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: And then two, they started to have American coaches coming

893
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: over in the seventies and eighties that helped influence some

894
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: of the culture of basketball in some of the countries.

895
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: But then they started to get some money and sponsors

896
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: behind the professional team, so then you started to get

897
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 1: there in brighter minds coming up with ideas, and especially

898
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: in Lithuania, especially in Serbia and the Yugoslavian republics, they

899
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: had coaches that they took these this American game and

900
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: definitely tweaked it. And I'd say, like you alluded to,

901
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: I think in some ways very positively, and that is spacing,

902
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: and that is a the idea of the team is

903
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 1: stronger than the individual and that growing up, you know,

904
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: AU was not like it is today. But still you

905
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: have to make a name for yourself coming up. And

906
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: the way you do that is when you actually have

907
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,280
Speaker 1: the ball and then try to do something right. Uh.

908
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: You know how much of the game in basketball do

909
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: you actually not have the ball? It's a lot. What

910
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: do you do without the ball is something they harp on. Um.

911
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: But again back to the officials walking traveling. You may

912
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,439
Speaker 1: not make a pump fake shot, fake and and put

913
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: the ball on the floor, um, like we do on

914
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: the same side that that is a travel. You cannot

915
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: catch the ball on a fast break and then take

916
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: a step and throw it in front of you. That's

917
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: to travel. There's all these little nuanced calls that I

918
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: learned in this first few weeks where I'm like, that's

919
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 1: not a travel, not to travel here. Um. So again

920
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: other things too, like the three second call. They really

921
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: enforced it over there, like they call it at two

922
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 1: point nine nine or or less. And you know, again

923
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 1: it's getting back to your point. The coaches, yes, like

924
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: they have their drills, they have their style, practicing twice

925
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: a day, three day in the preseason and then even

926
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: during the season, you may have a day off, but

927
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: we would still have to come into the gym to

928
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,359
Speaker 1: do rehab or do some type of um, you know,

929
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: activity for the for the purpose of the team. So

930
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: there were some teams I just I didn't have days

931
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: off and that would be for you know, nine months straight,

932
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: ten months. So it's a different experience there. They do

933
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 1: structure the whole season and a lot of the physical

934
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: stuff on soccer, so there's not as much power lifting

935
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: in the weight room. UM, there's a lot more flexibility

936
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 1: and some of that. Again, I think there was positive

937
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: ideas that they had UM. And then back to the

938
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: strategy on the court. UM. You know, there's the Serbian

939
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,439
Speaker 1: way is use the whole shot clock and then there's

940
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: only one or two guys that are allowed to shoot,

941
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: and they move the ball left and right, in and out,

942
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: and you know that that's that is fundamental basketball. If

943
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: you talk about Lithuanian coaches UM, or even like Mike

944
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,760
Speaker 1: D'Antoni and the Italian coaches, UM, they they play fast

945
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: and we're just gonna outscore you. And as soon as

946
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: you've got an open shot, and everybody's expected to be

947
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: a decent shooter. We want you to put it up

948
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: and then we're going after the rebound. So there definitely

949
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: were different styles from from place to place, and they

950
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:15,280
Speaker 1: wanted you to adjust to them. That was for sure. Yeah. Um,

951
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: favorite coach you ever played for, um my my second coach,

952
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: Franco Cassolini. So I mentioned like the Antoni. Franco coached

953
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: Mike the Antoni in Milan when Milan won the Euarlyague

954
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: championship back in the seventies. I believe it was, and

955
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: uh maybe early eighties. But but Franco was a little

956
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: guy from Milan. I can't imagine he played basketball at

957
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: a high level because he's only about five ft four.

958
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: But the guy was a genius and was such a

959
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: player's coach. And for the two seasons I played for him,

960
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 1: I I just had a blast and he gave me

961
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: the ball. He said, look, you maybe didn't play much

962
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 1: point guard in your life, but you can be a

963
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: point guard. And when I tell my Penn State teammates

964
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: or some others who knew my handle wasn't that tight

965
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: Carol enough, they said get out of here. But Franco said, look,

966
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: you can do it like you said, the European guards

967
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: different than Mr Jennings, are typically bigger and just use

968
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: their bodies, you know, if there is a shorter guy

969
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: in the court. Yeah, so just get it up the

970
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: court and then run the offense. And again that's the

971
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: typical euro point guard. He said, I think you can

972
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: do it, and it really expanded my game. I really wish,

973
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, in some ways from the basketball experience, I

974
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: had more of a chance to do that at a

975
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: younger age. Um, but again, we want a couple of

976
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: championships together. And uh, you could tell like he was

977
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 1: at the end of his coaching and care He never

978
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: coached after that final season with me in two thousand,

979
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: but I looked him up. I didn't even know this

980
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:46,919
Speaker 1: when I was playing for him, but maybe it's because

981
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: the internet was such a novel thing at that time.

982
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: He had such success in Milan UM and he also

983
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: coached in Rome, so those are two of the biggest

984
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 1: teams in Italy. They he coached Ino Roger, he coached

985
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: Bob McAdoo and Milan. So you know, Franco was an

986
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: amazingly accomplished coach and I was lucky enough to have

987
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 1: them for two seasons and just had a lot of

988
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: fun with him. Um, how did you keep up with

989
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: everything in the States? Like I feel like now it's

990
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: a lot easier with guys in Israel you had ESPN Russia.

991
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 1: We didn't have anything in France. You know. I was

992
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: only in France for a month and a half of

993
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: my first year broadcasting that I went and played in

994
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: France to try and get a team from Pro B

995
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: to Pro A and that was a great experience playing

996
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: for a young coach. Um. Um, but but but I

997
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 1: I really struggled to know anything. And I think that's

998
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: one of the of the things, not just absorbing the

999
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: culture and the language differences whatever, because a lot of

1000
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: guys like funking, I'm just playing ball and then you

1001
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: go out at night and the culture stuff doesn't about

1002
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 1: but does bother them them that they have no idea.

1003
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: They come back and they have no idea about anything

1004
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 1: that's taken place, and I know that's changed. How did

1005
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 1: you keep up with I have a couple of vignyettes

1006
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: to paint the picture. I remember coming home. It was

1007
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: one of my first years overseas, and when I come home,

1008
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: I I usually was on a different time frame, you know,

1009
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: the jet lag. I'm waking up at four in the

1010
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: morning and I'm wide awake. So I remember whatever year

1011
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 1: Old School came out with Will Ferrell. Um, I had

1012
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: not heard anything about this movie. I went in with

1013
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: completely open eyes and mind. I rented it the night

1014
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: before at Blockbuster, hoping to watch it that night, but

1015
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: I fell asleep at like eight o'clock, seven o'clock even, um,

1016
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: because of the time change. When I wake wake up

1017
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: the next morning, I'm at my parents house downstairs, everybody

1018
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 1: is upstairs to sleep, and I'm watching Old School, not

1019
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 1: knowing how great of a movie it was. And I

1020
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: was laughing. DELI laughs out loud and woke up everybody

1021
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:44,919
Speaker 1: at five in the morning. So and I was like, yeah,

1022
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: I didn't know it was going to be this funny

1023
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,399
Speaker 1: of a movie. I hadn't heard of it, um, and

1024
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I just was enjoying it again on a

1025
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: VHS pay back and whatever year that was. And and

1026
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 1: like you said, um, when I was over there to

1027
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: keep up, the internet had just really of getting going

1028
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: when I was in college, so I really tried to

1029
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 1: read as much as I could of the news, but

1030
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: there was a lot of pop culture stuff like that movie.

1031
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,439
Speaker 1: I remember Britney spears to like, I had no idea

1032
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: what the heck this love, And there was a lot

1033
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: of examples of that over the eleven years where I'd

1034
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: come home and people were talking about a certain celebrity

1035
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: or an event and I'd say, I have no idea

1036
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,879
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. So in a lot of ways,

1037
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: it was fine, like I'm okay, I'll be alright not

1038
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 1: knowing about all these things that are fairly frivolous, But yeah,

1039
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: the Internet helped. I can't imagine doing what I did

1040
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: for eleven years if it happened without email and without

1041
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,720
Speaker 1: the access um that I did over the years, especially

1042
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: with Skype. Yahoo Messenger was ahead of Skype um and

1043
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: then it kind of fell off. But I remember using

1044
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 1: Yahoo Messenger it was super clunky to use the video

1045
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,800
Speaker 1: mode and to be able to see somebody on the

1046
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: other side of the ocean was amazing. And that was

1047
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: maybe like in two thousand, two thousand one. So yeah,

1048
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 1: I definitely kept up with the technology um in terms

1049
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 1: of trying to keep in touch with my family, trying

1050
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 1: to keep in touch with my friends, and just knowing

1051
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 1: what was going on in the world, but definitely things

1052
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: flipped through the cracks like Britney Spears and old school. Yeah,

1053
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: I remember I was, I was into I didn't know

1054
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 1: the Brittany thing whenever. I was kind of into it

1055
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: when it came out. I remember getting Russian bootlegs of everything.

1056
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know, like they would have the I

1057
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: also would they have I can't tell you how many

1058
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: movies I watched on busses in Russia where they would

1059
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 1: have the Russian dubbed over but you could still hear

1060
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: the English kind of. It was so cheap and it

1061
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: was all I hated that. That's the worst. Uh. And

1062
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: I had teams with players most of the time and

1063
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: spoke English, and so if you were in a place,

1064
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: Italy is very adamant about protecting their language. So on

1065
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 1: the Italian bus, we knew it had to be an

1066
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: Italian language, but if at all possible, especially when DVDs

1067
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: came out, can we get it with English subtitles please?

1068
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 1: So that was always the fight. But once Stevie d

1069
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 1: started to become more popular. Um, I remember in ninth

1070
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: you know what was it, two thousand one to them

1071
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: two season? I had a VCR in my TV. Um,

1072
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: and I was able to play DVDs that I rented

1073
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 1: from the Blockbuster in Como, Italy. I would go across

1074
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: the border and come back to Switzerland Lugano and I

1075
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,399
Speaker 1: would I would play the DVD and then I would

1076
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: tape it with the English subtitles, but with Italian language.

1077
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: And I did that for the team when we took

1078
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: those bus rides um back and forth two away games,

1079
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: which almost always were in the French part of Switzerland,

1080
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: which was a four to five hour bus ride at

1081
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 1: the minimum. So yeah, fun stuff. It's interesting though that

1082
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: we could We could get through that stuff now because

1083
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:47,359
Speaker 1: we don't have a because because now you have cell phones, right,

1084
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: everybody can do it on their own. Yeah, we didn't.

1085
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 1: We couldn't do it on our own back back then.

1086
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,760
Speaker 1: If you had a computer with a DVD player, which

1087
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: came about later in the two thousand's, um, yeah, you

1088
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: could sit there and watch you So my last few

1089
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 1: years of my career, I could just watch whatever I

1090
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 1: wanted on my computer. But that wasn't the case in

1091
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,280
Speaker 1: the first five six years. Yeah, we had to work together.

1092
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:11,759
Speaker 1: What do you think of the What do you think

1093
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 1: of the NBA now? Oh gosh, this. I talked about

1094
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 1: the NBA all the time, especially these last couple of

1095
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: weeks with with the bubble. Um. Look, I mean that

1096
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: was always my dream, right, I mean I grew up

1097
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: a Sixers fan. I love Dr J and Andrew Tony um,

1098
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: and then I kind of worked into a Knicks fan, so,

1099
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 1: you know, always getting crushed by the Bulls, but a

1100
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: Ewing and Oakley fan, um and and and again. As

1101
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 1: a player, he always wanted to shoot for the highest

1102
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: level you could possibly get to. And so over the

1103
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: years I've I've played with and against a ton of

1104
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: guy that got got the chance that played in the NBA.

1105
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: But the game has changed. And that's not just at

1106
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: the NBA level, but especially at the NBA level. It

1107
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: has changed. And I give the example that I was

1108
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: talking to a buddy of mine that played college basketball

1109
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: last night. We were talking about that that Blazers game

1110
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 1: last night, which was incredible. Um, you watched these guys

1111
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: and the shooting wasn't incredible. I've not seen shooting like

1112
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: that at all. Like that was one of the most

1113
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 1: amazing shooting displays I've seen in a long time, if ever. Um.

1114
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: But when you watch guys and I'm not going to

1115
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: criticize because we're just going by what's allowed. But they

1116
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: carry the ball, so I wasn't allowed to do that.

1117
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 1: If I could have, I would have been able to

1118
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: get five guys. Because if you pause your dribble and

1119
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: act like you're going to shoot. Remember Stephan Marber are

1120
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: doing that with his left hand, he pull it up,

1121
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: he'd bring his right hand over as if he was

1122
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: going to go into a shot, and then he cross over.

1123
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: But he did it so smoothly and quickly and load

1124
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: of the ground. He got away with it back in

1125
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: the nineties. Again, nowadays, guys are constantly pausing and then

1126
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 1: they continue their dribble. And then they continue their dribble.

1127
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 1: And if you're somebody like Lebron or you're somebody as

1128
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: quick as Damian Lillard, like, that's a tremendous advantage. And

1129
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: then on top of that, yes, they can sort of

1130
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: play zone. Now. I would have loved to have seen

1131
00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 1: the two three zone that I saw the Lakers playing

1132
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: briefly the other night. Um, But yeah, that wasn't allowed

1133
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: back when we were coming up. Um, And and again

1134
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: how is it different now? And what I love watching?

1135
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: But it is a different game when you've got somebody

1136
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 1: like James Harden that can you can just spread it out,

1137
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: you know, for four guys around the three point line

1138
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: and in one role, one roaming athletic inside guy. Um,

1139
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: it's it's for me. I don't mind it because it's

1140
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: to me he's a genius. But I also missed the

1141
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: old days of you know, the eighties and nineties of

1142
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: the Pistons, the nixt the Bolts, Um, the Lakers. I

1143
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: mean those those are the teams I grew up on

1144
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 1: and that style of play. Yeah, no, I mean hardens

1145
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 1: that most people I know who are who played say, well,

1146
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: I think Harden is awesome. I hate watching and play

1147
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: basketball just because you know, it's just too many and

1148
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: like just too much dribbling, just just too much, Like

1149
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: there's there's a there's a happy medium there, and he

1150
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: crosses over the happy meeting. Sure for from a spectator's perspective, yeah,

1151
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 1: like it's not enjoyable to watch. But his coach D'Antoni,

1152
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: I think with Nash, you know, he said, look, I

1153
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: got this guy that can get an advantage off the

1154
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: pick and roll, and he's going to find the best option.

1155
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 1: And so he implemented that he kept before spread and

1156
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: they just did it every every time with the marstadamare

1157
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 1: over and over and over again. Right, So here he

1158
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: has James Harden. He says, all right, who else do

1159
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: we got? We got some shooters. James every time get

1160
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: an advantage with the ball and find us our best

1161
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: best option. So he normally doesn't get a pick on

1162
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: the ball. He just you know, for me, D'Antoni again,

1163
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: I knowing that Franco was my my favorite coach, I

1164
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 1: watched D'Antoni and he's just saying, all right, what's our

1165
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: most efficient way of trying to get a bucket here?

1166
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: But for me as a specter, yeah, it's it's not

1167
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 1: the traditional way. It's not the traditional game, but it

1168
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 1: is a way that you can be successful. I just

1169
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: don't think you can win a championship that way because

1170
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: eventually you know you're gonna get to the end of

1171
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 1: the game and um, you know team defense, well, I well,

1172
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 1: I think it's team defense. I also think that it

1173
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: exhausts your But like one of the seasons James Harden

1174
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 1: doesn't play defense is because he's exhausted. Like there's just

1175
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 1: that you can't write like and it gets harder and harder.

1176
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 1: In the defense gets better and better, and you can

1177
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: be an awesome shape. And he is an incredible shape

1178
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: now as opposed to there have been times ruling the

1179
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 1: season a couple of years ago when he was messing

1180
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 1: up one of the Kardashians, he wasn't in great shape.

1181
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 1: But I just it's an exhausting two when you're when

1182
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: you're trying to beat your guy. That that higher percentage

1183
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: of time with that volume, not just two possessions, but

1184
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 1: percentage of time in a possession when when you have

1185
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: the basketball, Like I just, it's an exhausting thing. And

1186
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: so he's too tired to play defense. Absolutely. Look my

1187
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 1: high school team, I can say you could have given

1188
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: me the ball in every possession, and I at that point,

1189
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of the competition level in in

1190
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 1: the Leigh Valley of Pennsylvania, you can give me the

1191
01:01:57,960 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: ball in Physically, I could get an advantage because I

1192
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: was a little taller than the advertige school player in

1193
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 1: that area. I was a little more athletic on the

1194
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 1: national scale. No, Like you know, I got into a

1195
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 1: role in a style of play where running off a

1196
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: bunch of picks get me open or I dished into

1197
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 1: the post. There's some type of head turn I relocate.

1198
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to make the open shot. But to to

1199
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 1: take what you just said about the style of play,

1200
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: that to me started with Ai. That started with just

1201
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: give the ball to Ai, maybe sometimes Aaron McKee and

1202
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 1: just let them do something. And then we'll put somebody

1203
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: like uh Theo Ratliff in the back on defense and

1204
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: get a bunch of other guys that are, you know,

1205
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: relatively good shooters, but good defenders. And so that that's

1206
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 1: a that's a great that's a great point, and that

1207
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 1: form in the work for them one year, right, they

1208
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: got to one year? That team is that team was built. Um.

1209
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 1: The Celtics a couple of years ago were kind of

1210
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: built the same way with Isaiah Thomas, where you have

1211
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: one guy and you give them the ball and you're like, hey,

1212
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: just go get as many buckets as you can. Meanwhile,

1213
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: you have four other dudes. They're just junkyard dogs on defense.

1214
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 1: And that's how well, that's how we'll make up for it.

1215
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 1: And it did. You know, it has occasionally worked. It'll

1216
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 1: win you, it'll win you some games, but to win

1217
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 1: a championship, Um, I think, you know, going back to

1218
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 1: it was on TV, so everybody saw it. But I

1219
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: always thought this Jordan's was so unstoppable. But even when

1220
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: he could score whatever he scored against the Celtics, like

1221
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 1: that may not win the game or the series for

1222
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 1: you when you play that style. And so when they

1223
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 1: did put in the triangle offense, which with Franco, we

1224
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 1: also did that under him a little bit, and I

1225
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: saw how yeah, like, if you've got guys that can

1226
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: shoot that move without the ball, you don't know on

1227
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: the defensive end, you know, our opponents, they don't know

1228
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 1: where we're going to hit them. We don't mean we're

1229
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 1: not we don't know what we're gonna hit you. We're

1230
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 1: gonna see what you give us. And eventually that will

1231
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 1: win to me a more consistent amount of games and

1232
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 1: give you a chance at championships because again, the other team,

1233
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: when you play in those seven games series, they're going

1234
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 1: to adjust. They're gonna say, all right, we're gonna take

1235
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 1: this away this game and and make these other guys

1236
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 1: beat us. And I can say back to when I

1237
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 1: was trying to in certain levels of competition in high school,

1238
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 1: you eventually run out of gas and you just can't

1239
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,439
Speaker 1: do it, and it's better to have other options where

1240
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 1: the defense doesn't know that, hey, this time, that's the

1241
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 1: guy that's going to get the shot, that's the guy

1242
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 1: that's going to get the back door or you know,

1243
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 1: the post up. And again it's that is a a

1244
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: more consistent way of winning, for sure. And then that's

1245
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: what the Serbians and all those European coaches they do

1246
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 1: harp on that, like let's let's move this around and

1247
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 1: not be as as predictable as the American game. It's

1248
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's absolutely fascinating. Um okay, last last thing. Um,

1249
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 1: give me a guy who whether he's Lehigh Valley guy

1250
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 1: or Pennsylvania guy who doesn't get as much respect, Like, look,

1251
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 1: you're a guy who had a great career. If I

1252
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 1: was to bring up to average basketball fan like a

1253
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 1: man that do that reminds me of Pete la Sicky,

1254
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 1: Like who's Pete les Sicky? Like really, I used like

1255
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: three time All Big ten like he was a baller,

1256
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 1: he played forever overseas like Pete. So ball guys, know,

1257
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: give me one other guy like that that that whether

1258
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 1: I should have on or should be brought up in

1259
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:19,920
Speaker 1: conversation that man, this guy was a tremendous player. Gosh,

1260
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 1: that's a tough one. I mean, so if you ask

1261
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 1: that question, um, the guys that I immediately think of

1262
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 1: are the ones in Europe that you're not going to

1263
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: bring them on the show because they maybe don't speak

1264
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 1: English that well. But there were so many guys in

1265
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 1: Europe that were just they were NBA starters, but because

1266
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 1: they made their two million a year and they were

1267
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 1: comfortable in the city that they were living in and

1268
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 1: in their role, you never heard of them. Um. If

1269
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 1: I go back to your question and to think of somebody, um,

1270
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 1: you know growing up or you know that she's that's

1271
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: a tough one. You should have given that one to

1272
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 1: me earlier. Look, you know, thinking of teammates, right, so

1273
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: maybe I can go with somebody Marcus Green. So, Marcus

1274
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 1: Green played at St. Bonaventure. He's from Northtown, Pennsylvania. He's

1275
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 1: five ft seven Okay. A lot of guys that I

1276
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 1: played with her Again, it didn't matter what their size was.

1277
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: So John Lenihan, another guy from p A uh, what's

1278
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 1: his name, Shanta Rogers. I mean these guys were all

1279
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 1: under five okay, and all of them, especially overseas. They

1280
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 1: made names for themselves because, like I said, most of

1281
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 1: those European teams couldn't go they couldn't counteract that very well.

1282
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 1: The guy that could get into the lane, the guy

1283
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: that could just put full court pressure on the entire game.

1284
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: And so back to maybe Marcus Um. You know he's

1285
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 1: he's a good buddy of mine. We were teammates for

1286
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 1: one year in Italy. That season we were together, we

1287
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: won the Italian Cup, totally outperformed what expectations were for

1288
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: that small town team in Avellino. Marcus went on to

1289
01:06:56,520 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 1: play in centerbace in istanbul. Um played for some big

1290
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: teams all across Europe. But people they wouldn't know his name.

1291
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 1: But if you look up some highlight reels of Marcus Um,

1292
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 1: he could absolutely take over games for many, many years

1293
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: over the course of his gosh, I think he played

1294
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 1: for over thirteen years. Maybe more so. Again, I I

1295
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 1: could certainly get back to you on that one. Uh,

1296
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 1: There's there's guys like Kenny Mitchell. I was teammates with Kenny.

1297
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 1: He played at Dartmouth. Um. If you look him up,

1298
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 1: he's now this chief marketing officer for Snapchat. So to

1299
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 1: think like he and I were teammates in a couple

1300
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 1: of seasons in summertime a au and Leftie could shoot

1301
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:37,800
Speaker 1: it pretty well. But just great to play with because

1302
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 1: he always found me right. I'll always be uh, you know,

1303
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 1: fond memories of somebody will pass me the ball. But

1304
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 1: to think that, you know, he's a Dartmouth all the

1305
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 1: time assist leader and I love playing with him. But

1306
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 1: he stopped his career. He got his NBA at Dartmouth

1307
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 1: and now look at his career as a college grad

1308
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 1: and got his masters. That gosh, you know, there's a

1309
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 1: lot of guys out there that go into college to

1310
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: play basketball and they're not thinking like that. They're all thinking,

1311
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 1: what what I tried to do? What you tried to do,

1312
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 1: and that is see if I can make some money

1313
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 1: with this game. But again, I think of somebody like Kenny.

1314
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 1: He'd be awesome to talk to along with Marcus, because

1315
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,720
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're different trajectories from a standpoint of

1316
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 1: a success on the court. And then you know the

1317
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 1: fact that you maybe never heard of them, but man

1318
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:26,880
Speaker 1: like they've they've accomplished a lot. Okay, So that that

1319
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 1: actually lends to my last question, which is this there's

1320
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 1: there's there's this belief from people, some of the media,

1321
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 1: some athletes, uh many, you know, some politicians have gotten

1322
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 1: on this thing. And I think it's it's gonna happen

1323
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 1: when it's like this name, image and likeness deal and

1324
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: I I don't know. To me, the truth of it is,

1325
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,639
Speaker 1: nobody's name. Imagine likeness has any sort of value, right, Guys,

1326
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 1: people buy tickets, they support their team, and then they

1327
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 1: learn about the athletes, and if they like the athletes,

1328
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:55,720
Speaker 1: then they try and hire them when they get done

1329
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 1: playing sports, right, would they give them some extra money?

1330
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:00,839
Speaker 1: Like yeah, but that's not ever what it's really been about.

1331
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 1: I just I, you know, like I'm not sucking out

1332
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 1: to anybody anybody's system. I just I don't really understand

1333
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: this how some money in a guy's pocket makes everything

1334
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:16,720
Speaker 1: better when we're giving them more and more support. It's

1335
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 1: about to me, it's about playing, getting a chance to

1336
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 1: show yourself, to get be a professional battling player, improving

1337
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 1: great facilities and coaches. And then oh yeah, by the way,

1338
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:29,520
Speaker 1: like when I get done, because I have a quality reputation,

1339
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 1: now you go into business and and I connect with

1340
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 1: people at the university. Where are you on that, on

1341
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:39,559
Speaker 1: on what seems to be a movement to pay kids

1342
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 1: more than a scholarship, more than the cost of attendance

1343
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 1: while they're still in college. Yeah, I think it's a

1344
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: great topic. Um. I will say to you know, I

1345
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 1: followed your career a bit, Doug. Um. I am impressed

1346
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 1: that you put yourself out there all the time on

1347
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 1: these topics, because, especially now with the trolls that are

1348
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 1: out there, got like you can't have uh, you know,

1349
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 1: a sound reasonable discussion anymore, you know, especially even at

1350
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 1: the highest levels of our political arena. But on this topic,

1351
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 1: let me take you back to when I was probably

1352
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 1: a sophomore junior at Penn State. And again this is

1353
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 1: before their internet rolls or people that are going to

1354
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 1: start posting things about what you said. I I was

1355
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 1: interviewed by the Daily Collision, which is the newspaper at

1356
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: Penn State, and and somehow the question came up, like, so,

1357
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 1: what is your opinion on players, you know, maybe getting paid,

1358
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 1: And I said, you know what, it's not fair that

1359
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 1: some of my teammates don't have a little cash on

1360
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,040
Speaker 1: the weekend to go buy a pizza or to go

1361
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 1: to the movies and so for for them, and and

1362
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 1: in that regard, I think that paying players UM makes sense.

1363
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 1: But in no way did I offer up a what's

1364
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: what's the actual structure of this or how is it

1365
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 1: gonna look? And I got so much ship for that

1366
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 1: for that statement back then and again I would stand

1367
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:05,759
Speaker 1: by the the idea that I never needed or wanted.

1368
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:08,599
Speaker 1: I was fine, like my I could use my dad's

1369
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:11,639
Speaker 1: ATM card anytime, but twenty dollars would last me a month.

1370
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 1: If my parents came up to watch a game, they

1371
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 1: maybe gave me twenty dollars forty dollars to put in

1372
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 1: my wallet, that would last me weeks. Because everything was

1373
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 1: paid for. I had all my meals paid for UM,

1374
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:26,719
Speaker 1: I had all the clothing from Nike with the contract

1375
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 1: we had. And then to advance this idea that you've

1376
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 1: asked about, they all these these teams across the country,

1377
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 1: especially in the major conferences, they have everything. When I

1378
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 1: visited Penn State over the years, especially in the last

1379
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 1: ten years now that I'm done playing UM, they have

1380
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 1: a complete set up in the locker room for whatever

1381
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 1: meal of the day it might be that they can

1382
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,840
Speaker 1: go in there and get food. So we never had that.

1383
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 1: I mean, we had all our meals paid for, but

1384
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 1: the problem was if we got hungry after the meal

1385
01:11:56,880 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 1: hall closed. That was where we had problems. Where I'm

1386
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 1: still hungry at nine thirty at night and I'm trying

1387
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,240
Speaker 1: to keep my weight on during the season, I don't

1388
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 1: have any cash to go buy a pizza or Buffalo

1389
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:11,559
Speaker 1: wings from Penn State subshops. So for me, that was

1390
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: the scenario that, yeah, you know, we shouldn't have to

1391
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:16,679
Speaker 1: need that. And maybe that came out in the Yukon

1392
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:21,719
Speaker 1: Champion UH press conference where somebody from their team mentioned

1393
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:27,599
Speaker 1: hungry some nights. That's that's what I was there. You go,

1394
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 1: but you know, for you know, advancing the conversation to

1395
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 1: today with the likenesses, um, I agree with you because

1396
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,679
Speaker 1: let's go back to when my number thirty two Penn

1397
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 1: State jersey was being sold. It was a Nike jersey,

1398
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 1: was super nice. Once in a while on eBay, it'll

1399
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 1: pop up, it'll sell for five cents. But again, while

1400
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 1: I was in college, I used to see people wearing

1401
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 1: my jersey and it would be like, wow, that's super awesome.

1402
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 1: I remember being in Ocean City, Maryland though that would

1403
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 1: be where i'd go with friends in the summertime, if

1404
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 1: I had a weekend or a week to just kind

1405
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 1: of lay back and have a good time. And I

1406
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 1: remember some kid walking down the street and we were

1407
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 1: in the car and I told my buddy to stop

1408
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 1: the car and said stop. That guy has my jersey

1409
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 1: on and I yelled at him. I was like, hey,

1410
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 1: do you know who that is? And the guy turned

1411
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 1: around and looked at me and said, yeah, John A. Carter.

1412
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 1: So you know for me again that little story. Or

1413
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 1: I remember being in it Um in Italy and some

1414
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 1: little kid before our game was wearing a Penn State

1415
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:23,600
Speaker 1: thirty two jersey and I said them, do you know

1416
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 1: who that is? Well, he didn't speak English, um, and

1417
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 1: I guarantee he didn't know that it was me. He

1418
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 1: was wearing a Penn State jersey or even what Penn

1419
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 1: State was. We probably maybe got it out a good

1420
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: real store or something. Um. So yeah, I mean to

1421
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 1: to fast forward to today with the likenesses, yeah, go crazy.

1422
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 1: I just I think that there's it's just opening up

1423
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:44,040
Speaker 1: the big door of what you kind of alluded to, Like,

1424
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:46,760
Speaker 1: there's gonna be people out there, They're gonna circumvent what

1425
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 1: it's meant to do, and it's just gonna be a

1426
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 1: case of, well, we're gonna pay this guy because we

1427
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 1: want him to then be a Nike guy or an

1428
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:57,559
Speaker 1: Adidas guy, or you know, whatever it might be once

1429
01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 1: they do graduate from college. And that's only going to

1430
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:01,680
Speaker 1: be a handful of guys that's not going to be

1431
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 1: like your average your average kid. But even even those

1432
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:06,759
Speaker 1: guys like you know, you know, my my thing is okay,

1433
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:10,880
Speaker 1: so I don't and and and forgive me. If you're

1434
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:12,920
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, you've heard this. This is not

1435
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:16,720
Speaker 1: the tangental rant. It's the first part is I'm not

1436
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: sure that people have ever been honest with how much

1437
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,920
Speaker 1: it helps you just get into school to be on scholarship, right, Like,

1438
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 1: I mean, Penn State's a real and I'm sure you

1439
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 1: would you probably would have gotten to Penn State. I

1440
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't have gotten a Notre Dame on my own. I

1441
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 1: just wouldn't have. I remember when I was being recruited.

1442
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:35,080
Speaker 1: My my gummer recruited me to Stanford. He was like, look,

1443
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:36,400
Speaker 1: you just need a thousand on your s a T.

1444
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 1: I was like, that's it, Like, yeah, it's basketball it's

1445
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 1: it's different. And I was like, it was crazy. You

1446
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 1: couldn't nobody. No one in my school got into Stanford.

1447
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 1: Nobody in my school got into cow or do U

1448
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,360
Speaker 1: c l A or Notre Dame like my high school.

1449
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:50,200
Speaker 1: Nobody at all. And I could have and I was

1450
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:52,519
Speaker 1: a good student and I had a good sa T

1451
01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 1: but nothing crazy, and I could get into anywhere. So

1452
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 1: just getting into school for so many of us as

1453
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 1: student athletes is in prohibitively more difficult. Now then you

1454
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 1: come down to affording school, and I agree with you

1455
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 1: in terms of having a little money in your pocket.

1456
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: You know, they've done the cost of a tendance thing.

1457
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:11,600
Speaker 1: Guys do have pell grants. You know. I think some

1458
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 1: of it comes down to manage you know, you've gotta

1459
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:14,680
Speaker 1: learn to manage a little bit of money. It's not

1460
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:16,120
Speaker 1: a lot of money, but you gotta learn to manage it.

1461
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:18,599
Speaker 1: There's a really there's a reasonable way, and it really

1462
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 1: has improved. Um. I mean, it's just it's so much

1463
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 1: better than it's ever been. And you know, you'll get

1464
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:29,800
Speaker 1: people like, well, it's it's not good enough. Like look,

1465
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:32,600
Speaker 1: if you're really going to track, if you're really going

1466
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: to track, the TV contracts. The TV contracts are based

1467
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 1: upon schools and their brands and have and they're like

1468
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:44,479
Speaker 1: the the The easy way to explain it is, there's

1469
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 1: a reason the contracts are twenty years out or ten

1470
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:53,719
Speaker 1: years out. It has nothing to do with the individual players. Now, look,

1471
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 1: has it been built up on those schools having a

1472
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 1: having success. Yes, but it's also based upon the alumni base.

1473
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:02,960
Speaker 1: It's also based upon location, you know all of these

1474
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 1: other things that kind of go into it, um and so.

1475
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:10,240
Speaker 1: But but but to me, if you start paying guys

1476
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:14,519
Speaker 1: as professionals, you start taxing things that they have, and

1477
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 1: the entire system becomes very, very different and much more complicated,

1478
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: and it would be the it would be the first

1479
01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:25,799
Speaker 1: ever employee that that the government, that the state government

1480
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:28,320
Speaker 1: would not want their tax dollars from. That's never going

1481
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:31,400
Speaker 1: to happen, right. The other part that I find interesting

1482
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:33,240
Speaker 1: is there's now this new kind of renewed push for

1483
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:37,760
Speaker 1: some sort of unionization. And the flaw to that is, well, one,

1484
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 1: what are they gonna fight over that there don't already have, Right,

1485
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:42,800
Speaker 1: there's a limit to how much time you can play.

1486
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: There's already set standards for for the workplace in terms

1487
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 1: of you know, scholarship is four years or five years

1488
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:51,880
Speaker 1: and they can't cut you anymore, etcetera, etcetera. But there's

1489
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:55,080
Speaker 1: this belief that if you unionize, the top guys will

1490
01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 1: get more. Well, that would be the first time ever

1491
01:16:57,640 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 1: that a union would fight for right Like I'm in

1492
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:03,519
Speaker 1: a I'm in a union. The union doesn't fight for

1493
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 1: the top guys. The top guys are good. The union

1494
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:09,360
Speaker 1: fights for the rank and file, right and and so

1495
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 1: the whereas the only inequity that you could possibly see

1496
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 1: are the guy the Kajohna Carter's right, the Johnny Manziel's

1497
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 1: And my argument to those guys are because they're so

1498
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 1: well promoted that and and they're they're they have these

1499
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:29,799
Speaker 1: Heisman campaigns. Like Johnny Manziel whatever he brought into Texas

1500
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 1: a and M because of his one season of greatness.

1501
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 1: When he want a highsman trophy, he'll be able to

1502
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 1: collect on that for the next fifty years, even though

1503
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 1: he flamed out in the NFL. Right, because he's John

1504
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:43,320
Speaker 1: Manziel from Kerrville, Texas and he can walk around and

1505
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:46,080
Speaker 1: do autograph signs or whatever. And oh yeah, by the way,

1506
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 1: when he signs all those autographs. It's gonna be on

1507
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 1: Texas A and M ship right, and they don't charge

1508
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 1: him for that. They don't say, hey, we want our name,

1509
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 1: image and likeness we want. We don't want you in

1510
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 1: our uniform. It actually doesn't work both ways. When you

1511
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 1: get done, you benefit it way more from your tie

1512
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 1: to the university, whereas they do benefit on some level

1513
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 1: from you your tied to their university. When you're playing again,

1514
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:11,880
Speaker 1: I think you and I, from what you just described,

1515
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:15,200
Speaker 1: are in the same ballpark with with our view on

1516
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 1: it um. The what I have witnessed is that at

1517
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 1: least for Penn State, I haven't walked into a bunch

1518
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 1: of different locker rooms across the country, but I'm pretty

1519
01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 1: sure they've been keeping up with the Joneses, and that

1520
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 1: is that, especially across the top sports, they're taking care

1521
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:33,759
Speaker 1: of they they there is at now a Penn State

1522
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:37,600
Speaker 1: compared to when I was there, They have x I

1523
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:40,680
Speaker 1: don't know how many more positions of professionals who are

1524
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:45,559
Speaker 1: paid money to help the team be successful, to help promote.

1525
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:47,800
Speaker 1: Like you said, there, there's not only what we had

1526
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 1: was a what do they call it? The Spurts information

1527
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 1: director so we had a special specified yeah s lady,

1528
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 1: So he would help us, pat DONI. He would help

1529
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:01,120
Speaker 1: us with getting interviews set up or you know, making

1530
01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:02,960
Speaker 1: sure that we had certain things taken care of. But

1531
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: then they would you know, nowadays they're doing so much

1532
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 1: more on social media because I follow the Penn State

1533
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 1: online presence and there's people that are paid to do that.

1534
01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:15,599
Speaker 1: So you know, that's the visibility that the guys are

1535
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:18,320
Speaker 1: getting nowadays compared to when you and I were in college,

1536
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 1: is way way vast of the difference. Um. So again,

1537
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:27,559
Speaker 1: I think we're on the same ballpark. Um. I think

1538
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:30,720
Speaker 1: it's healthy to keep things in check. Where where did

1539
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:32,920
Speaker 1: they get out of check or out of balance? Is

1540
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,639
Speaker 1: looking at some of these coaches and how much they're

1541
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:41,080
Speaker 1: getting paid, um, you know, compared to some of the

1542
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 1: lower tier schools. And then you say, well, that's just

1543
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 1: natural market forces and and that's fine. Um. I think

1544
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:52,800
Speaker 1: from the standpoint of the education I graduated, I got

1545
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 1: my you know, my diploma. To this day, Penn States

1546
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:02,519
Speaker 1: Alumni Association, and I believe it's the largest dues paying

1547
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 1: a lumni association in the country. That's different from my

1548
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:10,280
Speaker 1: brother who you know, East Tennessee State graduate. It's a

1549
01:20:10,280 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: smaller school, so you know, has he had as many

1550
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 1: opportunities as I have? And I can give you the

1551
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:18,639
Speaker 1: detailed Penn State has continued to pay benefits for me,

1552
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:21,519
Speaker 1: the fact that I graduated from there, and I continue

1553
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 1: to have, you know, a good standing in the Penn

1554
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:28,240
Speaker 1: State community. Perfect perfect your view and your brother the perfect,

1555
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: perfect example, perfect example. And then here let me, can

1556
01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 1: I give you one real quick? I do this with

1557
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:36,679
Speaker 1: I do this radio guys all the time, right, you know, like, hey,

1558
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:38,640
Speaker 1: what was your was your first radio job? Man? I

1559
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:40,760
Speaker 1: made ten dollars an hour, and I was doing this

1560
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:43,880
Speaker 1: and that and putting things together, and I was like, well,

1561
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:48,080
Speaker 1: my first radio gig, I made sixty plus. I made,

1562
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 1: you know, uh two hundred in appearance at like a

1563
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:54,080
Speaker 1: local place, a hundred dollars every time, Like I end

1564
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:56,920
Speaker 1: up making like seventies something you combine it with. I

1565
01:20:57,000 --> 01:20:59,960
Speaker 1: was making ESPN Like my my first year doing broadcasting,

1566
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:03,080
Speaker 1: I was making easy, low six figures, and which is

1567
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:05,880
Speaker 1: crazy in the radio business to make sixty grand without

1568
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:08,120
Speaker 1: ever having turned on a radio and that was guaranteed,

1569
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:10,640
Speaker 1: and then making like seventy five after endorsements and all

1570
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: that stuff. Right, it was only because I played oklhom State, right, Like,

1571
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:19,400
Speaker 1: there you go right again, I go back, I go

1572
01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:21,800
Speaker 1: back to Kenny Mitchell, or I go back to you

1573
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:23,639
Speaker 1: know some of the guys I told you mutual friends

1574
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 1: of ours, Rensei Stone. Renzi was a piece of player

1575
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:28,960
Speaker 1: at the University of Oklahoma. As I understand it, I

1576
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 1: never got to actually watch him play. UM Rens I

1577
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:36,200
Speaker 1: has been one of the most successful marketing UM executives

1578
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:39,760
Speaker 1: in the Oklahoma City area for twenty years now. And yes,

1579
01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:45,080
Speaker 1: I out here in Scottsville, Arizona. They they're wearing University

1580
01:21:45,080 --> 01:21:48,200
Speaker 1: of Oklahoma shirts. And I said, my my buddies on

1581
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 1: the board of Regents for University of Oklahoma, Renzy Stone.

1582
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:53,439
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, yeah, we know Renzi. His face is

1583
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:55,800
Speaker 1: up on the billboard in Oklahoma City. Not because of

1584
01:21:55,840 --> 01:22:02,120
Speaker 1: basketball directly, but absolutely indirectly, and because he leveraged that

1585
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 1: visibility he got at school and and then of course

1586
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 1: he's worked his butt off. Um he has all the

1587
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:12,160
Speaker 1: other intangibles that that goes into making a great businessman. UM.

1588
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:14,600
Speaker 1: You know again, I I can go on and on

1589
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:18,120
Speaker 1: about the guys that I played with that UM you know,

1590
01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 1: they said, you know what, Yeah, it's over, But now

1591
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 1: what am I going to do? And I had to

1592
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:26,200
Speaker 1: do that to these last ten years. And if you

1593
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:29,439
Speaker 1: have something to fall back on like that diploma, and

1594
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:32,639
Speaker 1: you have an alumni base that remembers you, that knows

1595
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:35,840
Speaker 1: the kind of person you were, that goes forever, that

1596
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 1: goes for the rest of your life, and it doesn't

1597
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 1: last as long as you'r a c LS or your

1598
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:42,479
Speaker 1: back or your ankles last. So that, for sure, I

1599
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:46,320
Speaker 1: think is is super important. Um all right, well, I

1600
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:48,240
Speaker 1: know you do wealth management. I hope you put all

1601
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 1: your guys into Tesla today, because holy I've put people

1602
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 1: into a number of things that I compare myself on

1603
01:22:55,920 --> 01:23:00,240
Speaker 1: the back for. But it's it's a tough game out there. Today.

1604
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:02,800
Speaker 1: Today is a good I my my guy. I have

1605
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 1: a guy in New York who's very conservative, and I

1606
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 1: remember in two thousand and thirteen I test drove a

1607
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:11,439
Speaker 1: Tesla and the guy who I test drove his Tesla,

1608
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:12,640
Speaker 1: he is like, you know what you should do. You

1609
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 1: should buy the stock to nine three today. Buy the

1610
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:17,760
Speaker 1: stock and then in five years you'll be able to

1611
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:19,519
Speaker 1: pay off your car in the stock. And I called

1612
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:21,840
Speaker 1: my guy. He's like, you know, energy stocks, it's kind

1613
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 1: of a weird company. They haven't made any money yet

1614
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 1: or whatever. I just sent him like, well, i'm talking

1615
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:29,599
Speaker 1: to you. I sent him an email fifteen hundred dollars

1616
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:34,960
Speaker 1: to share asshole it was. I'd say if I took

1617
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:37,479
Speaker 1: away the name Doug and I'm looking at I have

1618
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:39,840
Speaker 1: my computer I while we're talking, because I am keeping

1619
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:42,599
Speaker 1: track of if my assistant Maggie meets something from me.

1620
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, Tesla trading at right now? It's pe though

1621
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:51,640
Speaker 1: is eight hundred and four that if I didn't know

1622
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:54,040
Speaker 1: it was Tesla, I'd say, what the hell is wrong

1623
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:56,040
Speaker 1: with this company? And why is it trading at a

1624
01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:59,600
Speaker 1: multiple that is just out of this world? Doesn't make

1625
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:02,120
Speaker 1: any sense. I think it doesn't make any sense. And

1626
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,479
Speaker 1: a lot of investing, like a lot of things in

1627
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:07,439
Speaker 1: the human experience, it's based on emotion. But it is

1628
01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:10,559
Speaker 1: a great company. They actually are making money finally, which

1629
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 1: you know that you could say that about Facebook or

1630
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:14,840
Speaker 1: some other companies that now are showing a bit of

1631
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:17,479
Speaker 1: a more of a cash cash flow, but um, you know,

1632
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:19,640
Speaker 1: to get to your point, yes, I'm in wealth management.

1633
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:23,240
Speaker 1: It's something that I studied at Penn State Finance and

1634
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:26,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's been ten plus years now, but yeah,

1635
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:30,479
Speaker 1: it's I I can't say how how much of the

1636
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:34,240
Speaker 1: benefit that it's been to say that, yes, I graduated

1637
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:36,879
Speaker 1: with a degree in finance from Penn State University, and

1638
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:39,120
Speaker 1: and I'm applying some of the things that I learned

1639
01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 1: from that experience, but also with my life experience. So

1640
01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:44,679
Speaker 1: you know, did you guys know any of the other

1641
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:49,639
Speaker 1: stuff that was going on? But what's that the football stuff? Oh,

1642
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:55,400
Speaker 1: absolutely not one of my first years out right. So

1643
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:58,400
Speaker 1: I was working at Vanguard, which is a financial company

1644
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 1: here in Scottsdale based in Pennsylvania's and people knew that

1645
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:04,040
Speaker 1: I played basketball Penn State after some time, right, and

1646
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:06,599
Speaker 1: they knew that I was the big Penn State, um,

1647
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:08,880
Speaker 1: you know, representatives. So to speaking, Oh my gosh, the

1648
01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:10,599
Speaker 1: things that people would say to me at my desk,

1649
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:14,920
Speaker 1: we're just out of you know, just completely nuts. And

1650
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:17,880
Speaker 1: my experience at Penn State. One, if you look at

1651
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:19,439
Speaker 1: the history of the n c A in terms of

1652
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 1: infractions or this in that Penn State and Stanford and

1653
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:25,599
Speaker 1: maybe Northwestern are the three that like never did anything right.

1654
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 1: And I can tell you John bow our n C

1655
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:30,760
Speaker 1: a compliance guy. He was up our ask all the

1656
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:34,280
Speaker 1: time about stupid stuff like where did you do it

1657
01:25:34,280 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 1: with that ten dollars that you know we give that back?

1658
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:38,920
Speaker 1: We shouldn't have given you that. There there were things

1659
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:43,080
Speaker 1: all the time that we were constantly being um, you know, scrutinized.

1660
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:47,960
Speaker 1: And and my experience again from from my four years plus,

1661
01:25:47,960 --> 01:25:49,559
Speaker 1: I mean I would always go back to penn State

1662
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:52,519
Speaker 1: and I you know, I worked on a film that

1663
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:55,439
Speaker 1: was sponsored by Jerry Sandusky's organization, so you can look

1664
01:25:55,479 --> 01:25:58,560
Speaker 1: it up. It's called The Flow f l o W.

1665
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:02,560
Speaker 1: It's about confident and and it was meant for elementary

1666
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:06,120
Speaker 1: schools in Pennsylvania for kids that had problems with self confidence.

1667
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 1: And so they took me. It took Karen McCoy, who

1668
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:10,880
Speaker 1: used to be the wrestling coach at Stanford UM All

1669
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:14,000
Speaker 1: American and Olympian wrestler, and then they had Missy leopold Us,

1670
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:16,639
Speaker 1: who was a whole big ten gymnast, and so they

1671
01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:18,760
Speaker 1: had us kind of talking to you know, kids in

1672
01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:21,680
Speaker 1: this movie about hey, you know, uh, you know, keep

1673
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:24,360
Speaker 1: your head up in all kinds of confidence ideas. So

1674
01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:27,040
Speaker 1: for me, it was like a really amazing organization that

1675
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:30,320
Speaker 1: that Sandusky had founded. Um, I saw the effects of

1676
01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 1: the kids that would come into our practices or games.

1677
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:36,360
Speaker 1: I mean he saw smiles, right, I didn't see kids

1678
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:38,960
Speaker 1: that were abused or you know that we're complaining like

1679
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:42,840
Speaker 1: it was seemingly was an amazing organization. And whether smoke

1680
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 1: or there's fire, right, and it just seems like you know,

1681
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:47,960
Speaker 1: with all the things that happened. Um, yeah, like this guy,

1682
01:26:48,360 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 1: this guy was full and a lot of people and

1683
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 1: so he was That's the whole thing he was that

1684
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:56,519
Speaker 1: he was a complete con man. And you know the

1685
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:58,840
Speaker 1: thing the thing about ton man is they can pull

1686
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:02,400
Speaker 1: off the the ultimate ultimate con It's amazing to me

1687
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:05,320
Speaker 1: because I when ed to Chellis was there. I was

1688
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 1: covering the team bunch and you know, I remember the

1689
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:10,799
Speaker 1: sign that said success with honor, and I was always

1690
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:12,840
Speaker 1: I always keep carry Penn States like many a little

1691
01:27:12,840 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 1: bit they they they're a little bit they feel like

1692
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 1: they're a little bit better than everybody else and they

1693
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 1: might be a little preaching a little bit and and

1694
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,360
Speaker 1: maybe and maybe that's what makes it. That's maybe what

1695
01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:26,120
Speaker 1: makes it worse is that like of courd of bought

1696
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:29,120
Speaker 1: it even even if it was the reality for most,

1697
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:33,439
Speaker 1: it obviously wasn't. It sucks because because, like you said,

1698
01:27:33,479 --> 01:27:36,080
Speaker 1: of all the associations with Penn State, you can't get

1699
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:38,599
Speaker 1: into a Penn State conversation that somebody going like, hey man,

1700
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 1: did you did you Sandusky thing? Right? And I I

1701
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:45,320
Speaker 1: personally I'm buddies with Mike mcquery. So you know, there's

1702
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:48,240
Speaker 1: a lot of things that hit home with me. Now.

1703
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:51,200
Speaker 1: My older brothers. One played basketball the University of Scranton.

1704
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:54,920
Speaker 1: One went to the University of Pennsylvania, played football. UM. Again,

1705
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 1: they were they knew when this was going down that

1706
01:27:57,560 --> 01:27:59,360
Speaker 1: I was. I was a bit upset about it. I

1707
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:01,559
Speaker 1: was frustrated by all the things that were in the media.

1708
01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:04,040
Speaker 1: And they said to me, what do you what do

1709
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:06,320
Speaker 1: you care, Pete, what do you care? And I said, well, look,

1710
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:09,479
Speaker 1: I had a great experience at my school, and I

1711
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:11,479
Speaker 1: know that they had great experiences at their school, but

1712
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 1: they didn't have the same amount I feel of a

1713
01:28:14,840 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 1: you know kind of like, hey, this is the things

1714
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:20,120
Speaker 1: that were taught to me outside of the classroom. Like

1715
01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:23,040
Speaker 1: you said, the success with honor idea UM. I was

1716
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:27,080
Speaker 1: part of an organization there too that was UM what

1717
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:30,240
Speaker 1: they call a secret organization. Well, it's a service organization.

1718
01:28:30,240 --> 01:28:33,040
Speaker 1: The reason we don't tell people about it is because

1719
01:28:33,080 --> 01:28:35,519
Speaker 1: you do good things because in and of themselves they

1720
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:37,960
Speaker 1: are good things. You're not doing it for the recognition.

1721
01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:40,719
Speaker 1: You're not doing it for the resume that I see

1722
01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:42,760
Speaker 1: for so many other financial advisors. I do this in

1723
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:46,639
Speaker 1: the community and this and that. Well, no, at that state. Again,

1724
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:49,920
Speaker 1: there were things that were built into the fabric of

1725
01:28:49,960 --> 01:28:53,240
Speaker 1: my experience that we're about being a good citizen of

1726
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:55,680
Speaker 1: the world. And and there's things in the alma mater.

1727
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,360
Speaker 1: There's things in the UH you know, a lot of

1728
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:01,599
Speaker 1: the school's UH signs around camp. It's like you said,

1729
01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 1: where I don't want to say it's squeaky clean, because

1730
01:29:04,520 --> 01:29:08,000
Speaker 1: any time that something bad did happen, you heard about it,

1731
01:29:08,080 --> 01:29:09,760
Speaker 1: like it was brought out. Paternal was one of the

1732
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:12,960
Speaker 1: first guys you know that I understood. He always been um,

1733
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:15,280
Speaker 1: say look there's something wrong here, and will stand up

1734
01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 1: against it. Right and again, going back to John Bowd,

1735
01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:20,240
Speaker 1: if there was anything ever going on with our program,

1736
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:24,120
Speaker 1: immediately like we're being called into his office. So yeah,

1737
01:29:24,160 --> 01:29:27,960
Speaker 1: to have that happened when it happened, when I'm I'm

1738
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:30,000
Speaker 1: out in the real world. Working at Van Guarden, people

1739
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:32,519
Speaker 1: are talking trash about my school. I said, look, you

1740
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:34,720
Speaker 1: don't know what that school is like. This sounds to

1741
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:38,759
Speaker 1: me like it's more of a sociological um phenomenon where

1742
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:42,400
Speaker 1: you have organizations or you know, you have an aerarchy,

1743
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:46,000
Speaker 1: where there's something that happens or people have suspicions but

1744
01:29:46,040 --> 01:29:47,960
Speaker 1: they're afraid to talk about it, or they're afraid of

1745
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:50,759
Speaker 1: if they falsely accuse somebody. And I think it can happen.

1746
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 1: I had a teacher in high school who got fired

1747
01:29:54,160 --> 01:29:57,880
Speaker 1: because of an inappropriate relationship or student um and all

1748
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:00,040
Speaker 1: of us are like, really, wow, Like we hadn't no

1749
01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:03,640
Speaker 1: idea that that person was capable of that, And I

1750
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:05,719
Speaker 1: think a lot of us could come up with other examples.

1751
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:08,080
Speaker 1: But not to get too crazy on this tangent. But

1752
01:30:08,120 --> 01:30:11,080
Speaker 1: it is Penn State, So I understand the question now

1753
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:12,920
Speaker 1: there is there is a question. I didn't ask you

1754
01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:19,760
Speaker 1: about Penn State. Uh No, it's rec Hall, greatest place

1755
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:22,120
Speaker 1: to play basketball game as there ever, as like it's

1756
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 1: of the of the places they no longer play there obviously,

1757
01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:27,240
Speaker 1: which is a mistake because the new place is just

1758
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:33,600
Speaker 1: too fucking big. Um. But I quietly agree with you. Okay, um,

1759
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:37,640
Speaker 1: but is uh have have you ever played in a

1760
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:41,519
Speaker 1: place that is as perfect for what college basketball is

1761
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:45,320
Speaker 1: supposed to be about? Like Rec Hall? So let me

1762
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:48,240
Speaker 1: why do they do this? They do this? They did

1763
01:30:48,280 --> 01:30:50,559
Speaker 1: it to my place, GALLAGHERI, but they made it fourteen

1764
01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:54,080
Speaker 1: thousands too big, you know, Oregon Oregan did it at

1765
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 1: Matt Court. But now it was it was built out

1766
01:30:56,320 --> 01:30:57,760
Speaker 1: of wood and it was like a tinder box, but

1767
01:30:57,800 --> 01:31:00,800
Speaker 1: it was the best, the best. And then Rec Hall

1768
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:03,599
Speaker 1: was away like six thousand seats or some students standing

1769
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:07,160
Speaker 1: right on the sideline seven with the standing room only

1770
01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:10,120
Speaker 1: on the track that goes around the top. So I,

1771
01:31:10,760 --> 01:31:12,960
Speaker 1: people do you bring up red call Once in a while,

1772
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:14,920
Speaker 1: especially kind state people, they'll say, oh, how was it?

1773
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:17,840
Speaker 1: How was it playing there? And I start with this.

1774
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:22,280
Speaker 1: I played in a ton of gyms and arenas and

1775
01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:26,479
Speaker 1: shitty church basements or what have you in my my

1776
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:29,479
Speaker 1: fort or four years of life, especially in Europe, I

1777
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:33,280
Speaker 1: played in all kinds of places, um that we're considered.

1778
01:31:33,439 --> 01:31:35,400
Speaker 1: You know, Oh, this is where it's okay to play

1779
01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:38,439
Speaker 1: basketball on the surface. Remember in Switzerland it was one

1780
01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:39,840
Speaker 1: of those kind of courts where you could take your

1781
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:44,040
Speaker 1: thumbnail and leave an indentation like a wrestling map that

1782
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:45,760
Speaker 1: we played on that surface, like this is not a

1783
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:49,000
Speaker 1: basketball court. So I played in all kinds of places

1784
01:31:49,080 --> 01:31:52,839
Speaker 1: totally tight, where the fans feet are on the sidelines, Um,

1785
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:55,800
Speaker 1: you know, questionable whether the roof is going to fall

1786
01:31:55,840 --> 01:31:58,479
Speaker 1: in on us. There's weeks, Um there's no air conditioning

1787
01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 1: or there's no heat. But when you talk about the

1788
01:32:01,920 --> 01:32:07,240
Speaker 1: absolute loudest place I've ever played in, it is Recreation

1789
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:10,680
Speaker 1: Building reccall at Penn State. I remember my freshman year

1790
01:32:11,160 --> 01:32:14,280
Speaker 1: I maybe mentioned this earlier in our conversation when we

1791
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:17,479
Speaker 1: beat Michigan at home, first time Pen States beating Michigan

1792
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:21,080
Speaker 1: maybe ever at that point, and it was so loud.

1793
01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:23,519
Speaker 1: At one point, I'm on the bench and my teammate

1794
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:25,920
Speaker 1: was yelling something in my ear, But because I couldn't

1795
01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 1: see him, I had no idea he was yelling in

1796
01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:30,439
Speaker 1: my ear, so that when I turned and looked at him,

1797
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:32,120
Speaker 1: I was like, why are you you know? I could

1798
01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:33,280
Speaker 1: see he was read in the face and he was

1799
01:32:33,280 --> 01:32:35,400
Speaker 1: trying to yell in my ear. I couldn't hear him.

1800
01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:37,960
Speaker 1: That's how loud it was. And the fact that the

1801
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:42,240
Speaker 1: students were straight across from the bench is completely selling

1802
01:32:42,280 --> 01:32:44,960
Speaker 1: up that section feet on the sidelines. I had to

1803
01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:47,639
Speaker 1: back up the students anytime there was a sideline out

1804
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:49,840
Speaker 1: of bounce. When they would play the fight song. When

1805
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:51,479
Speaker 1: we came out of the locker room, you could not

1806
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:55,439
Speaker 1: help but get um your hair standing on end. It

1807
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:58,360
Speaker 1: was just amazing electric austeur. Even when we were playing

1808
01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:00,600
Speaker 1: some bad teams, it was like, let's go. You know,

1809
01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:03,920
Speaker 1: we got our home court. We we own this. When

1810
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:07,040
Speaker 1: you're play in a cavernous arena, and especially if it's

1811
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:10,400
Speaker 1: not completely full because you're playing against Indiana or some

1812
01:33:10,439 --> 01:33:13,680
Speaker 1: big team, man, it's a it's a disadvantage. It's just

1813
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:17,320
Speaker 1: again it has opposite in the same market. The same

1814
01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:21,920
Speaker 1: architect that designed the Polestra in Philadelphia designed Recall. They're

1815
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:26,200
Speaker 1: essentially the same building, and like rec Hall, the Plestra

1816
01:33:26,479 --> 01:33:30,240
Speaker 1: is a cathedral of basketball. And never ever tear that

1817
01:33:30,240 --> 01:33:34,400
Speaker 1: place down, um, is what I would hope because Gallagher

1818
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:36,559
Speaker 1: they didn't. They didn't. They didn't tear down Gallagher. They

1819
01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:39,200
Speaker 1: actually again named Gary Sparks Is an architect did an

1820
01:33:39,200 --> 01:33:43,080
Speaker 1: amazing job of building a whole new like section upper

1821
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:45,840
Speaker 1: deck over the top of Gallagher and it's a it's

1822
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:48,320
Speaker 1: an incredibly impressive but like you walk in now you're like,

1823
01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:52,040
Speaker 1: holy funk, how does anybody win in here? Because because

1824
01:33:52,439 --> 01:33:55,880
Speaker 1: because unlike other places, like the lower level is but

1825
01:33:55,960 --> 01:33:58,639
Speaker 1: the second level, which was always there, is on top

1826
01:33:58,680 --> 01:34:01,240
Speaker 1: of the lower level, and the hitch is it's literally

1827
01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:04,960
Speaker 1: right on top of you. So um, but it's just

1828
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:07,280
Speaker 1: too big for the town. And now you have the

1829
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:09,240
Speaker 1: thunder that you know, and and every game is on

1830
01:34:09,280 --> 01:34:11,400
Speaker 1: TV and they haven't been that good, but it's just

1831
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:14,200
Speaker 1: it's just too big. But we I'll give you example

1832
01:34:14,240 --> 01:34:18,519
Speaker 1: how the loudest it actually was was my well, Kansas.

1833
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:20,559
Speaker 1: We beat Kansas by thirty three my senior year, but

1834
01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:24,080
Speaker 1: we beat Oral Roberts and it seems weird to go

1835
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:25,960
Speaker 1: like who gives this ship about Roberts, which is actually

1836
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:28,200
Speaker 1: what we said in the locker room afterwards. So we're

1837
01:34:28,200 --> 01:34:31,639
Speaker 1: playing or Roberts. Barry Hinson, who is an os U grad.

1838
01:34:31,680 --> 01:34:33,800
Speaker 1: He's actually back now as like an analyst on the staff.

1839
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:36,320
Speaker 1: Barry Hinson took over Bill self as the coach role.

1840
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:40,000
Speaker 1: Roberts Snokeland State, then goes to Kansas, then goes to

1841
01:34:40,200 --> 01:34:43,200
Speaker 1: Oral Roberts as their head coach. He gets that thing

1842
01:34:43,240 --> 01:34:45,000
Speaker 1: going and then he goes right down the street and

1843
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:47,320
Speaker 1: he's the head coach at Tulsa. He leaves a guy

1844
01:34:47,400 --> 01:34:51,160
Speaker 1: named Tim gill is their best player at h AT

1845
01:34:51,160 --> 01:34:53,880
Speaker 1: O Are you so? Are you? Comes and plays. This

1846
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:56,640
Speaker 1: is like my fourth game or something in Gallagher and

1847
01:34:56,680 --> 01:34:59,000
Speaker 1: we were picked last in the Big twelve, but we

1848
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:00,600
Speaker 1: were actually we knew we're gonn pretty good as my

1849
01:35:00,640 --> 01:35:05,559
Speaker 1: first year there and it was six people could could

1850
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:08,360
Speaker 1: fit in this building and and it was like a

1851
01:35:08,400 --> 01:35:10,280
Speaker 1: thing to go there, even when Oakleman and we were

1852
01:35:10,439 --> 01:35:12,160
Speaker 1: they were just okay the year before two years where

1853
01:35:12,160 --> 01:35:14,559
Speaker 1: I get there, so it's packed. We're playing and as

1854
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:17,920
Speaker 1: a kid named Philip Owens, Okay, Philip Owens grew up

1855
01:35:17,960 --> 01:35:21,120
Speaker 1: went to Stillwater High School. Um, obviously you go to

1856
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:22,680
Speaker 1: still the Water High School, grew up still Water, you

1857
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:24,400
Speaker 1: want to go to Oklan State and play point guard.

1858
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:27,600
Speaker 1: So you know, we knew when he's coming in, We're like,

1859
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:29,800
Speaker 1: this kid's gonna want to you know, when he comes

1860
01:35:29,800 --> 01:35:31,599
Speaker 1: into the game, he's gonna want to show out. He

1861
01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:33,719
Speaker 1: comes in the second half and we're down like nine,

1862
01:35:34,280 --> 01:35:36,120
Speaker 1: and we're at the free throw line and I put

1863
01:35:36,200 --> 01:35:39,280
Speaker 1: the press on, and I mean he ships his he's

1864
01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:41,519
Speaker 1: a freshman's like his first road game, he ships his pants.

1865
01:35:42,080 --> 01:35:45,040
Speaker 1: Were going a little bit of a run. Places incredible

1866
01:35:45,040 --> 01:35:47,720
Speaker 1: that last play of the game. I think we're up

1867
01:35:48,200 --> 01:35:52,160
Speaker 1: six four or six whatever, and we get a steal

1868
01:35:52,400 --> 01:35:54,160
Speaker 1: my manager and Peterson throws it to me. I throw

1869
01:35:54,200 --> 01:35:56,320
Speaker 1: it back to him, he catches, he dunks it and

1870
01:35:56,400 --> 01:35:59,040
Speaker 1: kind of like at the end of one of the

1871
01:35:59,080 --> 01:36:01,519
Speaker 1: scenes of White Man and Jump where Billy hole where

1872
01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:04,600
Speaker 1: he pulls himself up and goes right to the rim,

1873
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:07,200
Speaker 1: That's what Pete did, like dunks it at the buzzer.

1874
01:36:07,240 --> 01:36:09,200
Speaker 1: I don't remember if it counter didn't count, and he

1875
01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:12,280
Speaker 1: comes down and we're like going crazy, and he's like,

1876
01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:15,200
Speaker 1: why are we going crazy? We only beat all Roberts, right,

1877
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:19,360
Speaker 1: and but it was so loud that I felt terrible

1878
01:36:19,439 --> 01:36:22,160
Speaker 1: for this my kid, And well I felt terrible for his,

1879
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:24,519
Speaker 1: poor kid, because here he is, like he probably always

1880
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:26,040
Speaker 1: wanted to play there he now he always want to

1881
01:36:26,080 --> 01:36:28,240
Speaker 1: kick Oakleman states ass, and his first chance to do so,

1882
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:32,880
Speaker 1: like the our team and the noise just swallowed him up. Right.

1883
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:36,000
Speaker 1: It's it's that feeling. I had this feeling once in

1884
01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:39,439
Speaker 1: college basketball my freshman year Notre Dame. We're playing at Syracuse,

1885
01:36:39,479 --> 01:36:40,840
Speaker 1: the Syracuse team that went on to play for the

1886
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:43,760
Speaker 1: national championship. And we're up fifteen and a half and

1887
01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:48,160
Speaker 1: Jeff Chippola hits a three to start second half, and uh,

1888
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:50,519
Speaker 1: they throw the ball into me and everybody else is

1889
01:36:50,600 --> 01:36:51,840
Speaker 1: running down the court and all of a sudden, we

1890
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:55,040
Speaker 1: didn't realize syracuses pressing and I get like double teamed,

1891
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:57,040
Speaker 1: and I try and call the twenty second time out

1892
01:36:57,320 --> 01:37:00,160
Speaker 1: and the ball gets poked out and John Wallace was

1893
01:37:00,200 --> 01:37:03,160
Speaker 1: like a windmill dunk and thirty eight thousand people united.

1894
01:37:03,479 --> 01:37:05,519
Speaker 1: The loneliest feeling on earth is when you're trying to

1895
01:37:05,560 --> 01:37:10,680
Speaker 1: go like help, oh and nobody can hear you, right,

1896
01:37:10,720 --> 01:37:13,160
Speaker 1: which is what happened to him. But I'll never forget.

1897
01:37:13,160 --> 01:37:16,439
Speaker 1: So Barry Hinson's like he's like Mr press Conference. He

1898
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:19,240
Speaker 1: comes into the press conference of gallaghraph and afterwards and

1899
01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:23,120
Speaker 1: he's like the old girl got us, and they're like, Barry,

1900
01:37:23,120 --> 01:37:25,280
Speaker 1: who are you talking about? Like GALLAGHERI but she just

1901
01:37:25,360 --> 01:37:28,240
Speaker 1: jumped up and got us and the noise swallowed us up,

1902
01:37:28,280 --> 01:37:31,080
Speaker 1: and it would like you couldn't hear shit. You'd have

1903
01:37:31,439 --> 01:37:34,559
Speaker 1: you'd have your ears would be ringing after the game,

1904
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:40,000
Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's it's it's interesting like NASCAR

1905
01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:43,280
Speaker 1: got away from its core when it started expanding. NHL

1906
01:37:43,320 --> 01:37:46,000
Speaker 1: got away before when it went to Atlanta, went to Phoenix,

1907
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:47,599
Speaker 1: and it went to Dallas, whatever. And some of these

1908
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:52,160
Speaker 1: been successful. Some college basketball, I believe you know, Big

1909
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:54,880
Speaker 1: ten got away from its courts, like Wisconsin they went

1910
01:37:54,920 --> 01:37:57,920
Speaker 1: in the Coal Center. But it's a it's it's like

1911
01:37:57,960 --> 01:38:03,120
Speaker 1: a boxing ring place. Whatever, it's awesome. It was awesome,

1912
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:06,240
Speaker 1: right how the State's pull places awesome, Penn State Wreck

1913
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:08,960
Speaker 1: Hall is awesome. Um, Like the President Centers nice and

1914
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:12,439
Speaker 1: it's really cool. But they they're all places better and like,

1915
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:14,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, somehow we've gotten into this bigger is

1916
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:20,040
Speaker 1: better and it's just not and I it's a it's

1917
01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:22,479
Speaker 1: a cautionary tale for some places, although most places of

1918
01:38:22,560 --> 01:38:26,720
Speaker 1: report replaced their old buildings. Yeah, look, you can have

1919
01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:29,960
Speaker 1: too much of anything and you hit on a big trend.

1920
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:33,320
Speaker 1: The the success of the stock market in the nineties

1921
01:38:33,320 --> 01:38:35,479
Speaker 1: and the boosters started giving money at the end of

1922
01:38:35,479 --> 01:38:37,760
Speaker 1: the nineties to a lot of schools, and they said,

1923
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:39,280
Speaker 1: what are we gonna do with this, and they started

1924
01:38:39,479 --> 01:38:43,800
Speaker 1: redoing their arenas, um and various buildings on campus and

1925
01:38:43,800 --> 01:38:46,800
Speaker 1: and nobody, I think maybe too Lane. Maybe Too Lane

1926
01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:49,120
Speaker 1: built a gym that was like less than five thousand,

1927
01:38:49,160 --> 01:38:51,479
Speaker 1: and they kept it intimate. They kept that old style

1928
01:38:52,040 --> 01:38:55,840
Speaker 1: of a you know, having an advantage in your in

1929
01:38:55,880 --> 01:38:58,280
Speaker 1: your home gym and not just being this. You know,

1930
01:38:58,439 --> 01:39:00,439
Speaker 1: they try to make them NBA arena us and it's

1931
01:39:00,479 --> 01:39:03,320
Speaker 1: just it's to me. But maybe in the next wave

1932
01:39:03,400 --> 01:39:07,960
Speaker 1: of of booster donation, they'll say, let's let's take down

1933
01:39:07,960 --> 01:39:10,559
Speaker 1: that old arena and try to capture some of that

1934
01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:15,160
Speaker 1: old magic. Pete I've been You've been more than generous

1935
01:39:15,200 --> 01:39:17,719
Speaker 1: with your time. I can't wait to hear how people

1936
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:20,240
Speaker 1: react to this. Let's catch up in person very soon.

1937
01:39:20,560 --> 01:39:21,920
Speaker 1: In the meantime, thank you so much for me my

1938
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:24,920
Speaker 1: guest on All Ball. You got a brother, and be

1939
01:39:25,080 --> 01:39:28,680
Speaker 1: well and stay safe through all the crazies lately. Be

1940
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:31,360
Speaker 1: sure to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb

1941
01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:35,360
Speaker 1: Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific. All right,

1942
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:38,120
Speaker 1: let's dig in on the l A Lakers. Look. I

1943
01:39:38,479 --> 01:39:41,439
Speaker 1: do think that uh, they've been a little off. I

1944
01:39:41,439 --> 01:39:45,400
Speaker 1: think clinching the number one seed early probably probably takes

1945
01:39:45,479 --> 01:39:49,760
Speaker 1: any sort of luster to winning any other game. Um,

1946
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:52,320
Speaker 1: not having every badly and to a lesser extent on

1947
01:39:52,439 --> 01:39:55,040
Speaker 1: having Rondo has hurt them. I think trying to work

1948
01:39:55,080 --> 01:39:58,240
Speaker 1: in two new guys, also hard guys that hadn't played

1949
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:01,000
Speaker 1: in the NBA this year, right, So that's another I

1950
01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:03,400
Speaker 1: hadn't played in a long time. So that like there's

1951
01:40:03,400 --> 01:40:07,160
Speaker 1: a but there's a lot to it. But the one

1952
01:40:07,200 --> 01:40:10,160
Speaker 1: thing that I haven't heard anybody say that people are

1953
01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:14,080
Speaker 1: talking about in basketball is like, why then didn't go

1954
01:40:14,120 --> 01:40:18,120
Speaker 1: buy anybody anymore? Now he doesn't, And I mean he

1955
01:40:18,160 --> 01:40:21,599
Speaker 1: looks like just a monster, but not an agile one

1956
01:40:22,479 --> 01:40:27,280
Speaker 1: at all at all. Kind of alarming. On the other hand,

1957
01:40:27,320 --> 01:40:28,840
Speaker 1: like look, he said his mid thirties, played in the

1958
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:32,240
Speaker 1: NBA for seventeen years, Like this is what it looks like.

1959
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:35,800
Speaker 1: No one is a spring chicken, and he does. He

1960
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:38,519
Speaker 1: has that weird look down step back with double with

1961
01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:40,840
Speaker 1: the right step back to the left step back jump shot,

1962
01:40:40,880 --> 01:40:43,240
Speaker 1: which is you know it's coming and there's not a

1963
01:40:43,240 --> 01:40:48,120
Speaker 1: ton you can do about it. But I'm I'm fascinated

1964
01:40:48,200 --> 01:40:52,200
Speaker 1: by if Lebron is gonna get exposed this year in

1965
01:40:52,240 --> 01:40:55,360
Speaker 1: the playoffs for just not being a great athlete anymore.

1966
01:40:55,400 --> 01:40:57,080
Speaker 1: And by great athlete, I don't mean great athlete, I

1967
01:40:57,080 --> 01:41:01,040
Speaker 1: mean great athlete by NBA standards, going by people making

1968
01:41:01,080 --> 01:41:06,120
Speaker 1: agile plays. It's just all bullyball all the time. Um,

1969
01:41:06,200 --> 01:41:07,960
Speaker 1: they got flaws and they're not a great three point

1970
01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:10,400
Speaker 1: shooting team. They're better than they've shot. It's harder when

1971
01:41:10,439 --> 01:41:12,880
Speaker 1: you don't have when you lose a shot creator, you know,

1972
01:41:12,920 --> 01:41:15,200
Speaker 1: you still start to get down with two point guards

1973
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:17,840
Speaker 1: that are G League guys at you know, early in

1974
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:21,080
Speaker 1: their career. I think there's a reason there's some limitations

1975
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:23,879
Speaker 1: there at the point guard position, and that probably derails

1976
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:28,519
Speaker 1: them even against the Clippers. But but one of the

1977
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:31,160
Speaker 1: big points that needs to be made is, yes, the

1978
01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:34,439
Speaker 1: point guards are can be disappointing. Yes, they kind of

1979
01:41:34,439 --> 01:41:37,720
Speaker 1: got some mismats parks since they lacked some shooting, But

1980
01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:40,240
Speaker 1: it would also be be who people to point out

1981
01:41:40,320 --> 01:41:44,120
Speaker 1: Lebron does not look like the same dude athletically. All right,

1982
01:41:44,200 --> 01:41:46,240
Speaker 1: that's it for this version of All Ball. My thanks

1983
01:41:46,280 --> 01:41:48,960
Speaker 1: to Pete Lastiki and for you for listening. Reminder you

1984
01:41:48,960 --> 01:41:50,640
Speaker 1: can listen to the Doug Gotlib Show daily three to

1985
01:41:50,680 --> 01:41:53,439
Speaker 1: six Eastern twelve three specific on Fox Sports Traded, the

1986
01:41:53,479 --> 01:41:55,599
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, or you can download the podcast

1987
01:41:55,600 --> 01:41:57,559
Speaker 1: when if you want in the meantime, Thanks so much

1988
01:41:57,600 --> 01:41:59,720
Speaker 1: for listening. I'm Doug Gottlieban. This is all ball