1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: And you're here. Thanks for choosing the iHeartRadio and Coast 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. Your quest for podcasts 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:11,159 Speaker 1: of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained ends here. We 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: invite you to enjoy all our shows we have on 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: this network, and right now, let's start with Chase of 6 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: the after Life for the Sandra Shamplain, Welcome to our podcast. 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: Please be aware the thoughts and opinions expressed by the 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: host are their thoughts and opinions only and do not 9 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to Coast AM, employees 10 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors and associates. We would 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: like to encourage you to do your own research and 12 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi. I'm Sandra Champlain. 13 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: For over twenty five years, I've been on a journey 14 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: to prove the existence of life after death. Each episode 15 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: will discuss the reasons we now know that our loved 16 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: ones have survived physical debt, and so will we. Welcome 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: to Shades of the Afterlife. Well, Hello, I hope you've 18 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: been enjoying your day and whatever it is you're doing 19 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: right now that you're choosing to listen to Shades of 20 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: the Afterlife. I'm so grateful. I'm going to start out 21 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: with a story and you'll pick up pretty quick. I 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: think of what this episode is about. John McConnell, a 23 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: retired New York City policeman working as a security guard, 24 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: stopped at an electronics store after work one night in 25 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two. He saw two men robbing the store 26 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: and pulled out his pistol. Another thief behind the counter 27 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: began shooting at him. John tried to shoot back, and 28 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,279 Speaker 1: even after he fell, he got up and shot again. 29 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: He was hit six times. One of the bullets entered 30 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: his back and sliced through his left lung, his heart, 31 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: and the main pulmonary artery, the blood vessel that takes 32 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: blood from the right side of the heart so that 33 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: the lungs receive oxygen. He was rushed to the hospital, 34 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: but he did not survive. John had been close to 35 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: his family and had frequently told one of his daughters, Dorene, 36 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: no matter what, I'm always going to take care of you. 37 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: Five years after John died, Doreene gave birth to a 38 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: son named William. William began passing out soon after he 39 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: was born, doctors diagnosed him with a condition called pulmonary 40 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: valve atresia, in which the valve of the pulmonary artery 41 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: has not adequately formed, so blood cannot travel through it 42 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: to the lungs. In addition, one of the chambers of 43 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: his heart, the right ventricle, had not formed properly. As 44 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: a result of the problem with the valve, he underwent 45 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: several surgeries. Although he will need to take medication indefinitely, 46 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: he has done quite well. William had birth defects that 47 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: were very similar to the fatal wounds suffered by his grandfather. 48 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: In addition, when he became old enough to talk, he 49 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: began talking about his grandfather's life. One day, when he 50 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: was just three years old, his mother was at home 51 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: trying to work in her study when William kept acting up. Finally, 52 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: she told him sit down, or I'm going to spank you. 53 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: William replied, Mom, when you were a little girl and 54 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: I was your daddy, you were bad a lot of times, 55 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: and I never spank to you. His mother was initially 56 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: taken aback by this. As William talked more about the 57 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: life of his grandfather, she began to feel comforted by 58 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: the idea that her father had returned. William talked about 59 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: being his grandfather a number of times and discussed his death. 60 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: He told his mother that several people were shooting during 61 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: the incident when he was killed, and he asked a 62 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: lot of questions about it. One night, he said to 63 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: his mother, when you were a little girl and I 64 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: was your daddy, what was my cat's name? She responded, 65 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: you mean Maniac? No, not that one. William answered, the 66 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: white one, Boston. His mom asked, yeah. William responded, I 67 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: used to call him Boss, right, that was correct. The 68 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: family had two cats, one named Maniac and one Boston, 69 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: and only one John referred to as Boss. One day, 70 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: Doreen asked William if he remembered anything about the time 71 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: before he was born. He said that he died on 72 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: Thursday and went to heaven. He said that he saw 73 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: animals there and also talked to God. He said, I 74 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: told God I was ready to come back, and I 75 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: got born on Tuesday. Doreen was amazed that William mentioned days, 76 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: since he did not even know the days of the week. 77 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: She tested him by saying, so, you were born on 78 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: Thursday and died on a Tuesday. He quickly responded, no, 79 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: I died Thursday at night and was born Tuesday in 80 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: the morning. He was correct on both counts. John died 81 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: on Thursday and William was born on a Tuesday. Five 82 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: years later, he talked about the period between lives. He 83 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: told his mother, when you die, you don't go right 84 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: to heaven. You go to different levels here than here 85 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: than here, as he moved his hand up each time. 86 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: He said that animals are reborn as well as humans, 87 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 1: and that the animals he saw in heaven did not 88 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: bite or scratch. John had been a practicing Roman Catholic, 89 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: but he believed in reincarnation and said that he would 90 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: take care of animals in his next life. His grandson, 91 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: William says that he will be an animal doctor and 92 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: he will take care of large animals at a zoo. 93 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: William reminds Dorene of her father in several ways. He 94 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: loves books, as his grandfather did. When they visit William's grandmother, 95 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: he can spend hours looking at books in John's study, 96 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: duplicating his grandfather's behavior from years before. William, like his grandfather, 97 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: is good at putting things together. Anne can be a 98 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: NonStop talker. William especially reminds Dorene of her father when 99 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: he tells her, don't worry, Mom, I'll take care of you. 100 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: Essed it. I knew you would. Children's Memories of previous 101 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: lives is our topic. I have, as you may imagine, 102 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: hundreds of books. This one is called Life Before Life 103 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: with the fantastic Jim B. Tucker. I'll let you hear 104 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: some words from Jim Tucker in the next segment, but 105 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: just so you have the resource, Jim B. Tucker dot 106 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: Com is his website. Let's go to the next story. 107 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: Sam Taylor is a boy from Vermont who was born 108 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: a year and a half after his paternal grandfather died. 109 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: When Sam was just one and a half years old, 110 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: his father was changing his diaper one day and Sam 111 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: told him when I was your age, I used to 112 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: change your diapers. After his mother saw the puzzled look 113 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: on the father's face, they discussed the comment, which they 114 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: both found odd. Neither had ever given of an reincarnation 115 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: much of a thought. Though Sam's mother was the daughter 116 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: of a Southern Baptist minister, his parents were not religious. 117 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: Following the incident, Sam began saying that he had been 118 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: his grandfather. He also said, I used to be big 119 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: and now I'm small. While his father was initially skeptical 120 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: about such a possibility, his mother was more open to 121 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: the idea, and she began asking him questions about the 122 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: life of his paternal grandfather. At one point, she and 123 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: Sam were even talking about the fact that his grandmother 124 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: had taken care of his grandfather before he died. Sam's 125 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 1: mother asked him what his grandmother made every day for 126 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: his grandfather to drink, and Sam correctly said that she 127 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: had made milkshakes and that she made them in a 128 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: machine in the kitchen. He got up to show her 129 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: the food processor on the kitchen counter, when the mother 130 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: showed him the blender in the pantry and asked if 131 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: that's what he meant that the grandmother had made the 132 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: milkshakes with. He said no, and he pointed to the 133 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: food processor instead. In fact, his grandmother had made milkshakes 134 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: for the grandfather in the food processor. She then had 135 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: a series of strokes after the death of his grandfather, 136 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: and Sam had never seen her make milkshakes for anyone. 137 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: At another time, Sam's mother asked him if he had 138 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: any brothers or sisters when he lived before. He answered, yeah, 139 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: I had a sister, but she turned into a fish. 140 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: When she asked him who turned her into a fish, 141 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: he said, some bad guys. She died. You know what, 142 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: when we die, God lets us come back again. I 143 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: used to be big, and now I'm a kid again. 144 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: The sister of Sam's grandfather, in fact, had been killed 145 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: some sixty years before. Her husband killed her while she 146 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: was sleeping, rolled her body up in a blanket, and 147 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: dumped her in the water at the bay. At other times, 148 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: Sam correctly said that his grandfather's favorite place in the 149 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: home was the garage where he worked on inventions, and 150 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: that Sam's father had a small steering wheel of his own. 151 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: When they rode in the car. When the father was 152 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: a boy, he did have a toy steering wheel that 153 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: attached to the dashboard of the car by suction cups. 154 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: When Sam was four and a half years old, his 155 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: grandmother died. His father flew out to her home to 156 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: take care of her belongings, and returned with a box 157 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: of family photographs. Sam's parents had not had any of 158 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: the pictures of his father's family before then. When his 159 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: mother spread them out on the coffee table one night, 160 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: Sam came over and began pointing to the pictures of 161 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: his grandfather and said, that's me. When he saw a 162 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: snapshot that showed a car without any people, he said, hey, 163 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: that's my car. This was a picture of the first 164 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: new car that his grandfather ever purchased, a nineteen forty 165 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: nine Pontiac that was very special to him. His mother 166 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,839 Speaker 1: gave Sam a class picture from when his grandfather was 167 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: in grammar school. The pictures showed twenty seven children, sixteen 168 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: of them boys. Sam ran his finger across the faces 169 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: and stopped it on the grandfather's face and said that 170 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 1: one's me. His father says, Sam's grandfather did not communicate 171 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: very well about emotional issues with this, particularly when they 172 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: were adults. Sam's father let his own father know how 173 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: he felt about him, but his father had great difficulty reciprocating. 174 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: He feels that if his father has come back through Sam, 175 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: then his deceased father is reaching out to return his love. 176 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: Sam's father is now very open with all of his children, 177 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: and he and Sam seem to have a very good relationship. 178 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: So let's go to the break and I'll tell you 179 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: more about Jim B. Tucker and let you hear some 180 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: words about his findings about children and reincarnation. We'll be 181 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: right back. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on 182 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 183 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain. 184 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: The topic of reincarnation can be a hot topic. There 185 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: are many that feel the stories of reincarnation are simply 186 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: that the person is very attuned psychically in mediumistically and 187 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: he or she can pick up on people in the afterlife. However, 188 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: in most of children and reincarnation, the children remember that 189 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: they were other people. Doctor Jim B. Tucker has done 190 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: an awful lot of research into this, following the works 191 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: of doctor Ian Stevenson. It's also interesting to know that 192 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: the stories of these children, there's always some sort of 193 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: unfinished business of the life they possibly had before. What 194 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: I don't want is anyone to be scared of this conversation. 195 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: I do know there are some people in the world 196 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: that think if we reincarnate right away, that they won't 197 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,119 Speaker 1: be able to see their loved one when they transition 198 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: to the afterlife. Through the years of my investigating, I 199 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,479 Speaker 1: have learned and really do believe that it is possible 200 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: that part of us can stay in the afterlife, and 201 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: perhaps part of us can choose to come back. If 202 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: we look at the population on planet Earth, there are 203 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: currently almost eight billion people living on our planet. Fifty 204 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: years ago there was only about four billion. So if 205 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: reincarnation was the only way we'd come back, well we'd 206 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: still have about four billion. I tend to think that 207 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: part of us may remain, and part of us may 208 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: choose to come back. In fact, people who have claimed 209 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: to be reincarnated that deceased person has been reached through 210 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: a medium. So again that may point to that part 211 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: of us stays in the afterlife and part might choose 212 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: to return. Either way, it's a fascinating subject and I 213 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: want you to hear right now some words from doctor 214 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: Jim B. Tucker as he is talking to John Clice 215 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: actor who you may remember from Monty Python and a 216 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: fish called Wanda. It's nice to know that he is 217 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: an explorer of this topic. Now, this is Jim Tucker's 218 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: an all well friend of mine, and he's got lots 219 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: of academic We send us some of your academic Quotificurasally well, 220 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: I'm a medical doctor, I'm a physician, and I'm a 221 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: board certified child psychiatrist. I am the director of the 222 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: Division of Processional Studies, and I'm also the Bonnar Lowry 223 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: Professor of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the University of Virginia. 224 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: So shut up, listen to me more. No, I want 225 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: to talk to you because you know about as much 226 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: about reincarnation as anyone on the planet. I think. Start 227 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: off by telling me about Ian Stevenson, and then why 228 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: you got interested in Yeah, yeah, So. Ian Stevenson was 229 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: the chairman of the Department of Psychiatry here, having a 230 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: perfectly successful mainstream career when he got intrigued by reports 231 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: of young children who said they remember the past life. 232 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: And these were from all over the world, and he 233 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: went and investigated and numbered them, got more and more intrigued. 234 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: Eventually stepped down as chairman of the department and focused 235 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: full time on this work, looking mainly to see could 236 00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: the children's statements be verified, to confirm the child actually 237 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:05,479 Speaker 1: did remember a past life. And he started this in 238 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: the early sixties and we've been going ever since, and 239 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: now it got over twenty five hundred cases. So what 240 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: do use to this? Well, I got intrigued by the 241 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: question of life after death, which is one that I 242 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: think contrigues everyone to at least some extends. Yeah, so 243 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: the opportunity arose where I called here and volunteered to 244 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: give some time to help with their studies. And at 245 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: that point Ian Stevenson was in his late seventies and 246 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: sort of unbeknownst to me, was hoping somebody could carry 247 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: on this work with reincarnation memories. I actually called about 248 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: near death experiences to begin with, but then my niche 249 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: sort of ended up being with the reincarnation memories and 250 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: that's what I've been doing. An inderstand, So are those 251 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: What can you say about the sort of pretty hard 252 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: scientific fact. Well, in the strongest cases, we have been 253 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: able to verify that the children's statements match with a 254 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: past life and one of a stranger that the child 255 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: and the family knew nothing about before the child started 256 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: making these statements. So we never take anything at face value, 257 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: but we determine as carefully as possible what exactly the 258 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: child has said, and then we go looking to see 259 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: And how do you find out what the child has said? 260 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: You asked the parents, friends, Yes, the parents and the friends, 261 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: and sometimes the child him or herself. Some of them 262 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: will talk to us, some won't, But we go sort 263 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: of statement by statement and try to be clear about 264 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: what the child has said, and then you go to 265 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: the village where the original person was. Well, that's right. 266 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: So we start by studying sort of the side, the 267 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: child side of the case, and then we go to 268 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: the previous life side. And in the international cases, it 269 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: might be to another village. Here it might be to 270 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: another state or another town, or or by email with 271 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: another family and try to see what we can find out. 272 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: What I said, village, because I tend to think of 273 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: these things happening more in places where reunca nation is 274 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,239 Speaker 1: part of a religious faith. But do you you do 275 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 1: get them from America? Yeah? I mean certainly the cases 276 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: are easier to find in places with the belief in 277 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: reincarnation because people talk about them and then they're not 278 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: empowered here about them. That's right. So I mean Ian 279 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: Stevenson had associates in various countries who were on the 280 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: lookout for cases. Now with the Internet, the cases, the 281 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: American cases find us. So we get emails from parents 282 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: a the time recording what their children are saying. So 283 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: it's used to people would criticize Ian's work and say 284 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: that it was just a cultural phenomenon. And we now 285 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: have proof that is not just a cultural phenomenon because 286 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: it happens here. Tell us one of the best best 287 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: research cases, just to show what the possibility. Yeah. Well, 288 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: one thing I studied was a little boy named Ryan 289 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 1: who started talking about a life in Hollywood when he 290 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: was four years old, and he would beg and cry, 291 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: cry and beg his mother to take him to Hollywood. 292 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: So he was in Oklahoma. So eventually she got some 293 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: books out of the public library about Hollywood to try 294 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: to help him kind of process this. And they were 295 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: looking through one of them one day and they got 296 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 1: to a picture from an old movie called Night after Night, 297 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: and he pointed to one of the guys and said, hey, mom, 298 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: that's George. We did a picture together. And then he 299 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: pointed to another person and said, and that's me. I 300 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: found me. Now. The first person he pointed to was 301 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: George Raft, who was a well known actor back in 302 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: the day. But the other one he pointed to that 303 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: he said he had been was an extra with no 304 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: lines in the movie. So Ryan's mom wrote to me 305 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: to see if I could help figure out who this 306 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: person was, and as we were working on it, she 307 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: was sending me emails, sometimes on a daily basis, with 308 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 1: all these statements that Ryan was making. So we got 309 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: documentation of everything he was saying, and then eventually, with 310 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: the help of a Hollywood archivist, we were able to 311 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: find out who this person was. This archivist went to 312 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: the library of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, 313 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: got all the materials on this movie night after night, 314 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: and there was one shot that included him and gave 315 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: his name a guy named Marty Martin. And Ryan had 316 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: described quite a life, which, to be honest, I felt 317 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: was unlikely for an extra with no lines in a movie, 318 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: but it fit Marty Martin's life. So Ryan said how 319 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: he had danced in New York and Marty Martin danced 320 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: on Broadway. Ryan said that he then went and worked 321 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: in the movies, which Marty Martin did emotionally working on 322 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: dance in the movies. He said that he then worked 323 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: at an agency and Marty Martin started a successful talent agency. 324 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: He described this life of going to Europe on ships 325 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: and so forth, which Marty Martin did. He also said 326 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: that the street address of his house had the word 327 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: rock or mount in it, and Marty Martin lived on 328 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 1: North Roxbury. And then also one time he said he 329 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 1: didn't see why God would let you get to sixty 330 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:53,479 Speaker 1: one and then come back again as a baby. And 331 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: Marty Martin's death certificate actually said he was fifty nine. 332 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: But when I looked into it, I found Census for 333 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: records and marriage listings and passenger lists that all gave ages, 334 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: which meant, in fact, he was sixty one when he 335 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: died in nine fifty nine. So all together we were 336 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: able to verify that over fifty Ryan's statements match Marty 337 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: Martin's life, and Marty Martin was an obscure person who 338 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: died in nineteen sixty four, and then there was no 339 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: information anywhere big Well, that's right, and now there is 340 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: more on the internet because of this case, but at 341 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: the time there was nothing on Marty Martin on the internet. 342 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: So what conclusion do you have, Well, what we can 343 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: conclude from that case is that most conservatively we can 344 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: say that Ryan had knowledge of this life in the past. 345 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 1: Now his experience of this knowledge, that it was memories 346 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: of a life he experienced, and that's certainly the most 347 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: straightforward explanation. But clearly we have very good evidence that 348 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: he had knowledge of a life that it would have 349 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: been impossible for him to gain through some sort of 350 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: ordinary means. So that's the kind of case that we 351 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: are trying to explore. Can we rule out that the 352 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: knowledge that there were no ordinary means where the child 353 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: learned it, and in a case like this there could 354 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: be ordinary means, absolutely has to be some kind of 355 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: PSI explanation somewhere in all the line. That's right. It 356 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: certainly seems to be something um sire or psychic, like 357 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: you say, to explain it, because there's no way to 358 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: explain it away. Thank you, short but sweet and a 359 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: little laugh from John Clice. Of course, if you want 360 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: to hear more about that study of the five year 361 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: old with the memories of Hollywood, go back two episode 362 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 1: seventy two. I give even more detailed account of that 363 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: from Jim's work. Let's go to the break and then 364 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: we'll hear more stories. You're listening to Shades of the 365 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast, a paranormal 366 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: podcast network. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm 367 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,719 Speaker 1: Sandra Champlain and we are on the subject of children's 368 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: past life memories, here's another story for you. This one 369 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: is the case of Nazi from Lebanon. At a very 370 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: early age, Nazi described a past life to his parents 371 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: and his seven siblings. Nazi described the life of a 372 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: man that his family did not know. He said that 373 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: the man carried pistols and grenades, and that he had 374 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: a pretty wife and young children, and that he had 375 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: a two story house with trees all around it and 376 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: there was a cave nearby. Also that he had a 377 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: mute friend, and that he had been shot by a 378 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: group of men. His father reported that Nazee demanded that 379 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: his parents take him to the previous house in the 380 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: small town ten miles away. They took him to that 381 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: town along with two of his sisters and a brother, 382 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: when he was only six years old. About a half 383 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: mile from the town, Nazee asked them to stop at 384 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: a dirt road running off of the main road. He 385 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: told them that the road came to a dead end 386 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: where there was a cave, but they drove on without 387 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: confirming this. When they got to the center of the town, 388 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: roads converged and Nazi's father asked him which way they 389 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: should go. Nazi pointed to one of the roads and 390 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: said to take it until it came to a road 391 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: that forked off upward, where they would see his house. 392 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: When they got to the first fork, they went up, 393 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: and the family began asking about anyone who had died 394 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: in the way that Nazi had described. They quickly discovered 395 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: that a man named Fuad, who had a house on 396 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: that road before dying ten years prior to Nazi's birth, 397 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: seemed to fit Nazi's description. Fuad's widow asked Nazi who 398 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: built the foundation of this gate at the entrance of 399 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: the house, and Nazi correctly answered a man from the 400 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: Farage family. The group then went into the house, where 401 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: Nazi correctly described how Fuad had kept his weapons in 402 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: a cupboard. The widow asked him if she had had 403 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: an accident at their previous home, and Nazi gave accurate 404 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: details of the accident. She also asked if he remembered 405 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: what had made their young daughter seriously ill, and Nazi 406 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: correctly responded that she had accidentally taken some of her 407 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: father's pills. He also accurately described a couple of other 408 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: incidents from the previous personalities life the widow and her 409 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: five children were all very impressed with the knowledge that 410 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: Nazi demonstrated, and they were all convinced that he was 411 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: the rebirth of Fuad. Soon after that meeting, Nazi visited 412 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: Fuad's brother, sheik Adib. When Nazi saw him, he ran 413 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: up saying, here comes my brother Adib. Sheik Adib asked 414 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: Nazi for proof that he was his brother, and Nazi said, 415 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: I gave you a check i Si sixteen. A check 416 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,959 Speaker 1: I sixteen is a type of pistol from Czechoslovakia that 417 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: is not common in Lebanon, and Fuad had indeed given 418 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: his brother one. Sheikh Adib then asked Nazi where his 419 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: original house was, and Nazi led him down the road 420 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: until he said, correctly, this is the house of my father, 421 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: and this the next house, is my first house. They 422 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: went into the latter house, where Fuad's first wife still lived, 423 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: and when sheik Adib later asked who she was, Nazi 424 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: correctly gave her name. Sheik Adib then showed Nazi a 425 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: photograph of three men and asked him who they were. 426 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: Nazi pointed to each of them and correctly gave the 427 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: names of Adib, Fuad, and a deceased brother of theirs. 428 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: Sheikh Adib showed Nazi another picture and Nazi said correctly 429 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: that the man in it was the father of those men. Later, 430 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: Sheik Adib visited Nazis home and he took a handgun 431 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: with him. He asked Nazi if this was the gun 432 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: that Fuad had given him, and Nazi correctly said that 433 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: it was not. Doctor Haroldson investigated Nazi's case and he 434 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: was able to verify most of the statements that Nazi made, 435 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: including the claim that the previous personality had a mute friend. 436 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: He also found out that Nazi's description of Fuad's house 437 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: matched another one in which Fuad lived in for several years, 438 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: including the time during which the house in town, which 439 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: was not fully completed at the time of Fuad's death, 440 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: was being built. The former house was by the dirt 441 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: road that Nazi had pointed out during the family's first 442 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,959 Speaker 1: visit to the previous town, and a cave was also 443 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: at the end of it, just as Nazi had said. 444 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: If the families in this case are remembering events correctly, 445 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: then Nazi's statements are very difficult to explain by normal means. 446 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: His spontaneous recognitions of the locations of the two houses 447 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: that the previous personality had owned are quite impressive by themselves, 448 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: adding his ability to correctly point out the previous Personalities 449 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: first house makes coincidence seem an unlikely explanation. On top 450 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: of these, his statement to Fawad's family about the various 451 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: small details are also notable. His statement about the Chechi 452 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: sixteen pistol is particularly impressive in a number of ways, 453 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: one being that this knowledge could not have arisen from 454 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: any environmental cues. His ability to state the names of 455 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: the men in the picture is more impressive than cases 456 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: in which a child simply points to a member of 457 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: the previous Personalities family, since environmental cues would not lead 458 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: him to know the names that he gave. The informants 459 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: stated that Nazi had not seen pictures of the previous 460 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: personality before he identified him in the photograph, and Sheikh 461 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: Adeeb was certain that, with the possible exception of his wife, 462 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: no one knew that Fuad had given him a CHECKI 463 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: sixteen pistol. I think you'll find this interesting too. Subjects 464 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: in other cases have described experiences in another realm during 465 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: the interval between death and rebirth. A boy named Lee 466 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: said that he remembered deciding to be reborn. He said 467 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: that other beings helped him with his decision to come 468 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: down to earth. He also said that his previous mother 469 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: was prettier than his current one, who accepted the comparison 470 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: with good humor. One boy said that he floated up 471 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: after dying, and he talked about being in heaven where 472 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: he saw God as well as the animals. Another boy, 473 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: who picked his grandfather out of a grammar school class picture, 474 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: also talked of seeing God. He said God gave him 475 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: a card to come back from heaven, and as he 476 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: described it, it looked like a business card with green 477 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: arrows on it. Along this rather fanciful sounding detail, he 478 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: said that his body shot up to heaven when he died, 479 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: and that someone else died at the same time he had. 480 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: In addition, he talked about seeing his uncle Phil in heaven. 481 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: His grandfather's best friend was the husband of his wife's sister, 482 00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: and the grandfather called him Uncle Phil. This boy meanted 483 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: that in his previous life he had made Uncle Phil's 484 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: feet hot. His grandfather and Uncle Phil enjoyed playing pranks 485 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: on each other, and his grandfather would give Phil a 486 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: hot foot by warming his shoes before Phil put them on. Similarly, 487 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: Patrick Christiansen, with three birthmarks that matched lesions on his 488 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: deceased half brother, spoke of talking in heaven with a 489 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: relative named Billy the Pirate, who he said told him 490 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: about being shot at close range and dying while up 491 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: in the mountains. Patrick's mother reported that she had never 492 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: heard of such a relative, but when she called her 493 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: mother to ask about Patrick's statements, she learned that a 494 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: cousin with the nickname Billy the Pirate had in fact 495 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 1: died this way. Other particularly vivid descriptions of another realm 496 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: include of a girl named Disna, a girl in Sri 497 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: Lanka who made numerous statements about the life of an 498 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: elderly woman who died in a village three miles away. 499 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: She described being lifted up even though her body was buried, 500 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: she felt like she was flying like a bird. She 501 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: talked about meeting a king or a governor whose reddish 502 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: clothes and beautiful pointed shoes were never taken off, never dirty, 503 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: and never washed. The same was true for her own clothes, 504 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: except that they were golden. She said that she played 505 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: at the king's house, which was made of glass and 506 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: had beautiful red beds. She said that when she got 507 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: hungry there, she simply thought of food, and it appeared 508 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: the sight of the food satisfied her appetite, so she 509 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: did not need to eat it. She said that the 510 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,240 Speaker 1: king took her to the home of her new family 511 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: after asking her to go there. Another child who made 512 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: similar statements in India talked about the life of a 513 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: woman in a city two hundred and twenty miles away. 514 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: She reported that, after a fatal fall from a balcony, 515 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: I went up. There was a baba, a holy man 516 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: with a long beard. They checked my record and said 517 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: send her back. There were some nice rooms there. I 518 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: have seen God's house. It is very nice, and you 519 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: do not get to know everything that is there, oh 520 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: through the mouth of babes. Don't you just love these stories? 521 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: Kids are just so natural and say things just as 522 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: they are. Have you started thinking that there's more to 523 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: life than meets the eye, and there's more to you 524 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: than you know. I don't know if we will ever 525 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: learn all the knowledge there is to learn, but it 526 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: sure is exciting hearing some of these stories. Now, when 527 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: we get back from our break, you've heard of child prodigies, right, 528 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 1: little kids who can play piano or do magnificent things 529 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: beyond their years. Is it possible that a child prodigy 530 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: is having a memory of someone from a previous life? 531 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: A very exciting thing to think about, isn't it. So 532 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: let's take our last break, and when we come back, 533 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 1: we will hear more for sure. You're listening to Shades 534 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,320 Speaker 1: of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast, 535 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: a paranormal podcast network. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. 536 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: I'm Sandra Champlain. If you are enjoyed this conversation, I 537 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: wholeheartedly recommend that you go to the website Jim Btucker 538 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: dot com and also get a copy of his book. 539 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: It's called Before Children's Memories of Previous Lives and it 540 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: includes two volumes, both his book Life Before Life and 541 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: Return to Life. I'd like to continue on with some 542 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: words from doctor Tucker. Before the last story, he has 543 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: a section called does Everybody Reincarnate? When we see evidence 544 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: for reincarnation, one reaction is to think about how it 545 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: could affect us individually. Clearly, we would all love the 546 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: opportunity to see our deceased loved ones. Again. Unfortunately, we 547 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,359 Speaker 1: must remember that what is true about the children who 548 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: report past life memories may not be true for the 549 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 1: rest of us. They may be a unique group, and 550 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: even if they have reincarnated, no one else may have. 551 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: For instance, they may have had issues that kept them 552 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: connected to their earthly experiences so that they came back 553 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: while others do not. As I discussed earlier, seventy percent 554 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: of the previous personalities died by unnatural means in cases 555 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: where the mode of death is known, and of course 556 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: a number of those dying by natural means died suddenly 557 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: as well. This suggests that a violent or sudden death 558 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: is much more likely to produce a future case of 559 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: a child with past life memories than other types of deaths. 560 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,760 Speaker 1: Such a death may be one factor that can cause 561 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 1: our subjects to have a connection to the earth and 562 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: lead them to be exceptions to the normal state of affairs. 563 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,320 Speaker 1: After death, the consciousness may typically blend into a larger 564 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: universal consciousness or go off to another realm of existence, 565 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 1: Heaven for example. For all we you know, the traditional 566 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,320 Speaker 1: Judeo Christian views of life after death may be correct. 567 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,240 Speaker 1: On the other hand, reincarnation may normally occur but without 568 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: memories coming from the previous life. In that case, we 569 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: may all have had previous lives, even though most of 570 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: us do not remember them. If this is true, then 571 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,240 Speaker 1: the usual process may get disrupted, either by a factor 572 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: in the previous life, like an unexpected death, or by 573 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: some factor in the next life. This may lead some 574 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 1: memories to be present in the next life, and therefore, 575 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: even though everyone may reincarnate, our cases are unusual because 576 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: of the presence of the memories. The cases do not 577 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: answer which possibility is more likely, even though they indicate 578 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:50,879 Speaker 1: that reincarnation occurs in some circumstances. Although we would all 579 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: like to see our deceased loved ones return to us, 580 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: or to return ourselves to our children or grandchildren after 581 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: our deaths, these cases do not answer the question of 582 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: whether reincarnation is universal. They provide evidence that we can 583 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,359 Speaker 1: reincarnate at least under certain circumstances, which is certainly a 584 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: significant finding, but they do not indicate if all of 585 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 1: us actually do. Even if we all do reincarnate, the 586 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 1: patterns we see in the cases with memories may not 587 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 1: apply to the rest of us. The type of death 588 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 1: or some other factor might change the normal process to 589 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: produce patterns that could go along with the enduring memories. 590 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,400 Speaker 1: For instance, the children who have had past life memories 591 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 1: may be more connected to a certain location than others 592 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: would be. These children tend to reincarnate close to where 593 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: the previous personality lived, Yet others who reincarnate without memories 594 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:56,720 Speaker 1: may not similarly be constrained. Likewise, the children who describe 595 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 1: staying in one location for years between line may not 596 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: be typical of all who reincarnate. We should remember that 597 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: other differences could occur as well, between the cases of 598 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: children who have past life memories and any others who 599 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: reincarnate without such memories. The great inventor Henry Ford once said, 600 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,320 Speaker 1: I adopted the theory of reincarnation when I was twenty six. 601 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,799 Speaker 1: Genius is experience. Some seem to think that it is 602 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,120 Speaker 1: a gift or a talent, but actually it is the 603 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,719 Speaker 1: fruit of a long experience in many lives. While that 604 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:40,239 Speaker 1: being said, let's go on to our last story. This 605 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: next case is most notable for the child's behavior and abilities. 606 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: I first heard from his father when the boy was three. 607 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 1: He reported that his son Hunter had received a set 608 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: of plastic golf clubs when he turned two. He loved 609 00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: the clubs and played with them incessantly. A few months later, 610 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 1: his father was running through the television channels when he 611 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 1: passed the golf channel. Neither of Hunter's parents played golf, 612 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: and his father hadn't even known the family had the 613 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,759 Speaker 1: golf channel, but once Hunter saw it, he told his 614 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,880 Speaker 1: parents to go back to it. From then on, he 615 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,320 Speaker 1: had no interest in children's shows and wanted to watch 616 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: nothing but the golf channel. His parents had to limit 617 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,280 Speaker 1: him to thirty minutes in the morning and thirty minutes 618 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 1: again at night. One day, there was an infomercial about 619 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: Bobby Jones, a famous golfer in the nineteen twenties whose 620 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,879 Speaker 1: name is now used by a company that makes golf 621 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,320 Speaker 1: equipment and accessories. When Hunter saw the program, he told 622 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: his parents that he had been Bobby Jones when he 623 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,319 Speaker 1: was big. He said this repeatedly, and when someone would 624 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 1: ask him what his name was, he would say Bobby Jones. 625 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: He wanted to be called Bobby and would correct people 626 00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: if they called him Hunter. He would also correct them 627 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: if they called him Tiger or any other name. He 628 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 1: knew of Tiger Woods and the other golfers from the 629 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,880 Speaker 1: Golf Channel, and although he liked them all, he was 630 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:15,040 Speaker 1: much more passionate about Bobby Jones. His parents initially laughed 631 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,319 Speaker 1: at him. They were both raised Christian. His father had 632 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,680 Speaker 1: read some about Buddhism, however, and was intrigued by the 633 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:26,400 Speaker 1: idea of rebirth. He decided to test Hunter. He showed 634 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 1: Hunter pictures of six golfers from the nineteen twenties and 635 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,799 Speaker 1: asked him which one was Bobby Jones. Hunter pointed at 636 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,759 Speaker 1: the picture of Bobby Jones and said, this is me. 637 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 1: That might not sound so surprising, but then he pointed 638 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 1: to the picture of another golfer, Harry Varden. Hunter said, 639 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: this is Harry Garden, my friend. Hunter's father printed pictures 640 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 1: off the Internet of several houses, including Bobby Jones's childhood home. 641 00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: When he showed them to Hunter, he said, how house 642 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: as he pointed to each picture until he got to 643 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 1: Bobby Jones's home. He suddenly appeared wistful as he said home. 644 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,360 Speaker 1: His dad knew that Hunter had not seen either Harry 645 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 1: Varden or Bobby Jones's childhood home before, so he was shocked. 646 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: Hunter would take his little golf clubs wherever he went. 647 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 1: When he practiced at the beach. He would call it 648 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,440 Speaker 1: the Samtrap. Golfers would see him practicing and comment on 649 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 1: what a great swing he had. His parents gave him 650 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,359 Speaker 1: a set of real golf clubs for Christmas, and he 651 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 1: then began taking lessons at a golf club. The usual 652 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: starting age for lessons was five, but when the staff 653 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,720 Speaker 1: saw Hunter's swing, they accepted him while he was still 654 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,360 Speaker 1: two years old. His instructor called him a golf prodigy. 655 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:58,120 Speaker 1: Several older golfers commented that Hunter's swing reminded them of 656 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,960 Speaker 1: Bobby Jones. When was three, his mother was putting him 657 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,600 Speaker 1: to bed one night. As they talked about him being 658 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,960 Speaker 1: his parents child, he said, just like my child. When 659 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 1: his mother asked him his child's name, Hunter said, Bobby Jones. 660 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 1: He was my son. Bobby Jones did indeed have a 661 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: son named after him, Robert Jones the third, and he 662 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: was referred to as young Bobby. When I got the 663 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,320 Speaker 1: report from Hunter's father, I quickly asked about visiting the family. 664 00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: His parents were agreeable to a meeting, and we soon 665 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,759 Speaker 1: worked out a time for me to visit them at 666 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:40,319 Speaker 1: their home in sunny southern California. Hunter's parents were very 667 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 1: pleasant and cooperative and Hunter, a few months past his 668 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,920 Speaker 1: third birthday, was very cute. I brought along some pictures 669 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,000 Speaker 1: of Bobby Jones with other golfers, but I wasn't able 670 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,359 Speaker 1: to get Hunter engaged enough in looking at them to 671 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 1: give me any feedback. We finished out in the yard 672 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,319 Speaker 1: as I watched Hunter hitting golf balls into an net. 673 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: Even if the visit didn't produce any new information, it 674 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,680 Speaker 1: was useful in that it gave me the chance to 675 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: review the history with Hunter's parents and to see that 676 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 1: they came across as reasonable, responsible people. I received an 677 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 1: update from Hunter's father a year later. Hunter had said 678 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 1: very little in the interim about Bobby Jones or any memories, 679 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 1: but he did remain obsessed with golf. Not only did 680 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 1: he enjoy playing it, he would also spend time at 681 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,080 Speaker 1: night designing golf courses with his blankets, which he would 682 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,319 Speaker 1: then show to his parents. His favorite real course was 683 00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:42,000 Speaker 1: Augusta National, home of the Master's Tournament. Bobby Jones founded 684 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:46,440 Speaker 1: the Augusta National Golf Club and helped design that course. 685 00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,240 Speaker 1: After another year passed, Hunter's father sent me a video 686 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,960 Speaker 1: of Hunter playing golf. Although I'm not a golfer, even 687 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,160 Speaker 1: I could tell he was exceptional. It was hard to 688 00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 1: believe that this smooth swing was coming from a five 689 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,080 Speaker 1: year old. Hunter is now seven. At last count, he 690 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,680 Speaker 1: had won forty one out of fifty junior golf tournaments, 691 00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:13,120 Speaker 1: including twenty one in a row. It's a pretty great story, 692 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: isn't it. Hunter is not this boy's real name to 693 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,719 Speaker 1: keep his identity private. Just for kicks. I looked on 694 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:26,200 Speaker 1: YouTube for child golf prodigy and there's a video of 695 00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 1: a three year old boy that's amazing. Now, I'm not 696 00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 1: saying that this is the same boy as in the story, 697 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,080 Speaker 1: but I think you will find what you see fascinating. 698 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,000 Speaker 1: So if you want to go to YouTube, it's titled 699 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,480 Speaker 1: is this three year old golf Prodigy in the next 700 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:48,920 Speaker 1: Tiger Woods? These stories give us something to really think about, 701 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 1: don't they. Regardless of if reincarnation is real or how 702 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,279 Speaker 1: it works, I think we can both agree that this 703 00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,200 Speaker 1: points to the reality of the afterlife. I hope you've 704 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 1: enjoyed this episode as much as I've enjoyed delivering it 705 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:09,760 Speaker 1: to you. As a reminder, our homebase is we Don't 706 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,839 Speaker 1: Die dot com. Perhaps some of the buttons we have 707 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:19,120 Speaker 1: at home medium courses you can join our Facebook group 708 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:23,879 Speaker 1: with over seven thousand fabulous members who speak this same language. 709 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,759 Speaker 1: Come to our weekly Sunday gathering, which is free and 710 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,480 Speaker 1: includes a medium demonstration. Also, if you go to the 711 00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:36,040 Speaker 1: store page be my guest, use coupon code free for 712 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:41,480 Speaker 1: my audiobook We Don't Die, a skeptics discovery of life 713 00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,840 Speaker 1: after Death. In closing, my name is sand Or Champlain 714 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,319 Speaker 1: and it has been my supreme pleasure to be your 715 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,799 Speaker 1: host of Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and 716 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:59,520 Speaker 1: Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network. Thanks so much 717 00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:16,399 Speaker 1: for listen. Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast 718 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,200 Speaker 1: to Coast Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and 719 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: check out all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or 720 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 1: by going to iHeartRadio dot com