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Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is August the twenty eighth, and a

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Speaker 1: man who had been married twenty two years, had three

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Speaker 1: kids at home, went fishing, went missing, presumed dead. Well,

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Speaker 1: he turned up a couple months later, and now he

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Speaker 1: has been sentenced to jail time for faking his own death.

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Speaker 1: And with that, welcome to this Amy and TJ presents Robes.

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Speaker 1: This is a very devastating, heartbreaking story. When you hear

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Speaker 1: about what he did, some of the details are as

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Speaker 1: ridiculous and comical. For why he thought he was going

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Speaker 1: to get away with us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to go to such lengths when you're

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Speaker 2: a father of three and a husband. Okay, I get it.

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Speaker 2: People get divorced every day. It's tough, it's hard, it's messy,

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Speaker 2: it's expensive. But my god, why would the only other

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Speaker 2: way out of a relationship, which would be death? I

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Speaker 2: guess why would that be the better option? You somehow

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Speaker 2: think it's better that your kids think you're dead, that

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Speaker 2: your community thinks you're dead, rather than you fell in

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Speaker 2: love with another woman. That's pretty serious. I can't imagine

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Speaker 2: that headspace to feel that trapped, that your only way

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Speaker 2: out is faking your death.

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Speaker 1: I thought about that too, And I know no one

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Speaker 1: would want to be sympathetic to this guy, but how

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Speaker 1: short of mental illness, short of something not right up there?

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Speaker 1: Because you feel so in such despair that you thought

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Speaker 1: this was a better option. And the story we're talking

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Speaker 1: about a lot of you all may remember it from

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Speaker 1: last year. A kayaker. His name is Ryan Borgwart. It's

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Speaker 1: fourty five years old from Wisconsin, and he went missing,

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Speaker 1: but they found him a few months later. And to

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Speaker 1: your point, Robes, he had run off, you said, that

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Speaker 1: was a kind way to put it. He had fallen

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Speaker 1: in love with another woman.

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Speaker 2: I mean love, love makes you do crazy things, and

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Speaker 2: whatever it was, the feeling he felt it was intoxicating

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Speaker 2: enough that this was all worth it somehow someway in

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Speaker 2: that moment. Certainly now he regrets it, he said as much.

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Speaker 2: But in the moment he felt so much passion that

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Speaker 2: this seemed like the right thing to do. Okay, So

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Speaker 2: now he was planned, This wasn't some like impulsive thing scheme.

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Speaker 2: Month month he had time to think about what he

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Speaker 2: was doing, how he was going to do it. He

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Speaker 2: even tried to make sure his family got money, so

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Speaker 2: he was like his guilt was even like working in overtime.

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Speaker 1: He was sure about this love is what we're saying.

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Speaker 1: Apparently time to think about this love. But Ryan last year,

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Speaker 1: well we should tell you this week he's been sentenced

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Speaker 1: to eighty nine days in prison for the whole scheme.

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Speaker 1: Eighty nine days in prison. We'll explain why eighty nine

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Speaker 1: is in there. That's a very specific day. But last year,

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Speaker 1: August eleventh, he goes out, leaves home on a fishing trip,

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Speaker 1: goes out in the kayak on Green Lake, about one

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Speaker 1: hundred miles outside of Milwaukee. Texted his wife he had

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Speaker 1: been out there all day. Texted his wife at about

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Speaker 1: eleven o'clock that night, said he was heading in and

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Speaker 1: then going to be heading home. Well, he never made

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Speaker 1: it home. No one ever heard from him again. Police

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Speaker 1: were called and then he's reported missing. The search they

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Speaker 1: start for him is at five point thirty the next morning. Now,

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Speaker 1: Green Lake is one of the deeper lakes up in

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Speaker 1: that area, some whether two hundred ye two hundred feet deep,

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Speaker 1: I believe they said it. So it's a deeper lake.

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Speaker 1: So they know they had their work up against them.

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Speaker 1: So police come out. They find his vehicle near the lake,

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Speaker 1: they find his kayak it's overturned. And also a part

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Speaker 1: of that is that the life jacket is with him.

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Speaker 1: They find his tackle box, they find his fishing rock.

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Speaker 1: They search this lake over and over and over and robes.

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Speaker 1: This goes on for another couple of months that this

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Speaker 1: family thinks he's dead and they are searching for his body.

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Speaker 2: And imagine the torture of that. You know, he texts

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Speaker 2: his wife, I'm turning around. I'm gonna pull the kayak

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Speaker 2: in coming home. I don't know. Did she wait up

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Speaker 2: all night for him? Was she nervous? Was she scared?

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Speaker 2: Did his kids know? Was there this terrible anxiety and

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Speaker 2: anticipation of what could have possibly happened to him? And

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Speaker 2: then the not knowing anyone who has lost someone, there's

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Speaker 2: tragedy and devastation just from that grief from that. But

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Speaker 2: when you don't know what happened to somebody, when you

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Speaker 2: don't know how they died, when you don't know where

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Speaker 2: their body is, that adds a whole other layer of grief.

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Speaker 2: So this was really cruel if you think about it.

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Speaker 1: So he's missing, the families going through it, and again

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Speaker 1: they're searching for months and months, but ropes then, what

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Speaker 1: was that in August. About a couple months later October,

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Speaker 1: things started to turn around a little bit. Things start

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Speaker 1: to look a little.

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Speaker 2: Fishy, right, So perhaps the most fishy of them all.

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Speaker 2: Police find out that his name was actually run by

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Speaker 2: Canadian authorities the day after he disappeared. The day hmmm,

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Speaker 2: they found his overturned kayak in his life jacket and

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Speaker 2: his VI near the lake, so how could that be.

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Speaker 2: Then they find that he actually got a new passport.

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Speaker 2: Then when they searched his laptop, they saw that he

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Speaker 2: was heading to Europe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they pieced it together. Like you said, this was

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Speaker 1: months and months in the making, but they were able

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Speaker 1: to put together these digital breadcrumbs to see where he

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Speaker 1: was trying to go.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So the other thing, the Internet browser on his

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Speaker 2: laptop happened just to be completely cleared of all cookies, sites,

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Speaker 2: et cetera the day before he disappeared.

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Speaker 1: Fine, that looks bad.

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Speaker 2: And then turns out he ended up taking out a

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Speaker 2: life insurance policy on himself for the family in January

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Speaker 2: for three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: That's the key as well. You're thinking he was going

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Speaker 1: to try to collect the money. Nope, he took it

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Speaker 1: out and his family was supposed to be the beneficiary

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Speaker 1: of it.

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Speaker 2: Them a little something, a little parting gift. Okay, then

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Speaker 2: he moved money to a foreign bank. All of these

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Speaker 2: things point to one thing and one thing only.

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe we just have to look into it now.

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Speaker 1: An odd thing here he we said, he's been married

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Speaker 1: for between two years and he has three kids in

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Speaker 1: apparently ropes he didn't want anymore.

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Speaker 2: Well, apparently he actually did want more because among the wife,

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Speaker 2: among the many many interesting things that police were able

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Speaker 2: to dig up, turns out he reversed a a sectomy

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Speaker 2: before he left. So apparently this new lucky Gal wanted

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Speaker 2: to have kids, or at least he wanted to have

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Speaker 2: kids with her.

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Speaker 1: Have we even stated the lucky gal no who she

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Speaker 1: is and where she's from? No, Yeah, she didn't live

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Speaker 1: in a neighboring town, neighboring state, even not even a

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Speaker 1: neighboring country to us.

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Speaker 2: And he met her online and she hails from the

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Speaker 2: country of Georgia in that's eastern Europe. Correct, So he

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Speaker 2: was willing not just to fake his own death and

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Speaker 2: to leave his children behind, but to then fly to

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Speaker 2: a foreign land and I don't know how he was

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Speaker 2: going to live there or stay there. Maybe they have

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Speaker 2: a ninety day fiance thing going on there too, But yes,

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Speaker 2: his plan was to stay with this Georgian woman and

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Speaker 2: live happily ever after.

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Speaker 1: Like they say, the heart wants what the heart wants,

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Speaker 1: doesn't it, Robes, But this lady that we mentioned here. Now,

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Speaker 1: as this story continues, police actually announced I believe it

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Speaker 1: was in October, a couple months after he went missing.

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Speaker 1: That no, we do not believe he is missing. We

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Speaker 1: believe he staged this whole thing. Now, the woman we

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Speaker 1: speak of in some way. Police didn't give all the details,

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Speaker 1: but got in touch with authorities and then help them

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Speaker 1: get in touch with him, and they found out, yes,

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Speaker 1: he was alive and well was in contact with authorities

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Speaker 1: by phone. But Robes, well, why didn't he come back? Well,

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Speaker 1: there's no extradition for faking your own debt. This is

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Speaker 1: actually considered it's a misdemeaning demeanor.

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Speaker 2: It is a misdemeanor, so he absolutely could have stayed

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Speaker 2: in Georgia and then that misdemeanor charge would not have

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Speaker 2: qualified for him for extradition, so he would not have

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Speaker 2: faced any problems, any issues. But he chose to come back,

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Speaker 2: his lawyer says, to take responsibility for his actions once

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Speaker 2: he was found out, probably had some explaining to do

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Speaker 2: to his kids. His wife did file for divorce, not surprisingly.

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Speaker 1: The date was funny. It was like the exact day

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Speaker 1: after he had they had brought him back, or the

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Speaker 1: day after he got back. She filed the very nature.

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Speaker 2: It felt good, she was, she was ready. She was ready.

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Speaker 2: She just wanted it to hit. She wanted it to hit.

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Speaker 2: The timing is everything right, isn't that what they say?

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Speaker 2: So she wanted it to be very special, that timing.

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Speaker 1: What do you do? What can you ever do with

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Speaker 1: those kids?

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Speaker 2: I don't know?

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Speaker 1: How can he sit? How can that be repaired? How

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Speaker 1: can the therapist be involved? What can you ever do

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Speaker 1: to make up for that? That's tough for those kids

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Speaker 1: I think about But I think about them and wanting

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Speaker 1: them to have a relationship with their dad.

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Speaker 2: I think the only thing you could do would be

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Speaker 2: to have a mental health someone who knows how to

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Speaker 2: handle something like this and really tried to explain that

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Speaker 2: their father went through a mental crisis, and that would

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Speaker 2: be the only way I think you could forgive your

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Speaker 2: father is to know that they were struggling so much

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Speaker 2: with their own mental health that they didn't regard yours

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Speaker 2: and in that moment made a terrible decision that did

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Speaker 2: not consider the well being of their children, And just

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Speaker 2: think you'd have to just go ahead and accept that

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Speaker 2: that's possible.

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Speaker 1: See, but what you just said is that that was

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Speaker 1: incredibly well said and considerate, and from a person who

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Speaker 1: has been through some stuff, who've seen some stuff and

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Speaker 1: seen people behave badly who might still be good people.

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Speaker 1: This is one where I think it's in our nature,

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Speaker 1: and certainly in social media's nature, to immediately just attack

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Speaker 1: this guy. I understand nobody's defending, but when you think

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Speaker 1: about kids whose dad is still alive, who has an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to have a relationship with them, I don't even

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Speaker 1: know where you start with the statement that my dad

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Speaker 1: didn't want me so much he was willing to fake

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Speaker 1: his death, and you know the thing that made him

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Speaker 1: convince that he didn't want to be my dad a

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Speaker 1: woman in Georgia they had never met.

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Speaker 2: And I know this sounds wild, but the thought of

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Speaker 2: my dad doing that and then getting in besectomy reversed

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Speaker 2: almost as if he was going to replace me with

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Speaker 2: other children for whatever reason, that makes the story so

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Speaker 2: much worse from the child's perspective that it was almost like,

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Speaker 2: I'll just start over and just have another family that who.

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Speaker 1: Knows what's going on with this guy, but those kids.

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Speaker 1: I just think about those kids and who knows what

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Speaker 1: relationship they had, because I think about what if it

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Speaker 1: was wonderful, what if he was a great dad. I

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Speaker 1: don't know at all. It is just that part of it.

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Speaker 1: So he's in touch with authorities a couple months after

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Speaker 1: he disappeared, so they literally have him on the phone

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Speaker 1: and are in touch with him. At one point they

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Speaker 1: even have him send a video up himself to prove

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Speaker 1: that is him, and sure enough, that's him. We know

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Speaker 1: he's alive. Didn't they put that out publicly?

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Speaker 2: Yes, he says, I am in my apartment, I am safe, secure,

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Speaker 2: no problem. Those were his exact words.

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Speaker 1: But there was nothing they could do, so they were

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Speaker 1: just in touch. The story was what it was, but

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Speaker 1: he rode. I can't believe this gave us a little

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Speaker 1: more detail. I guess we kind of could figure it

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Speaker 1: out once we knew he was alive, But he gave

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Speaker 1: kind of a blow by blow and gave the details

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Speaker 1: about Hey, this is how I pulled it off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he said, he overturned the kayak and he threw

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Speaker 2: his phone into the lake. He then said he paddled

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Speaker 2: an inflatable boat to shore. He then rode an electric

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Speaker 2: biken seven seventy miles to Madison death commitment. Then he

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Speaker 2: took a bus to Detroit.

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Speaker 1: That is commitment.

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Speaker 2: I was waiting for that. Then took another bus to

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Speaker 2: Canada and that's where he was. Yes, his name was

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Speaker 2: run through the Canadian authorities there and from there he

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Speaker 2: flew out of the country and to Europe.

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Speaker 1: That was a commitment. That was a plan. He had

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Speaker 1: to have something waiting here to go do this, and

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Speaker 1: the ticket set up there and to do that in

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Speaker 1: the fly.

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Speaker 2: But he was using his own passport. How did he

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Speaker 2: not think he was going to get caught and there

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Speaker 2: was such a paper trail. That's amazing to me that

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Speaker 2: he thought somehow that that would work in terms of

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Speaker 2: faking his depth. And he knew he had to leave

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Speaker 2: the country. He knew he had to go through authorities

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Speaker 2: who were going to scan his passport, his name was

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Speaker 2: going to be in the system. It's just wild to

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Speaker 2: me that he thought he could get away with that.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, Rose loves make love. It makes you

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Speaker 1: do crazy things, does it not? Well, folks, we heard

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Speaker 1: from him. He was sentenced this week. We'll explain exactly

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Speaker 1: why the judge went with eighty nine days, which is

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Speaker 1: double what the prosecution even asked for. Also, we heard

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Speaker 1: from the kayaker himself. We'll let you hear his words

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Speaker 1: to his family.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back, everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ,

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Speaker 2: where we are talking about forty five year old Ryan

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Speaker 2: Borgwart of Wisconsin, who faked his own death, his own

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Speaker 2: drowning death in a kayak. His wife, his three children,

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Speaker 2: authorities all feared and presumed that he was dead, until

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Speaker 2: turns out he wasn't. He was just in Europe with

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Speaker 2: a gal he met online. And then when police finally

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Speaker 2: did trace him to Georgia, the country of Georgia, some

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Speaker 2: two months after he disappeared, he voluntarily chose to come

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Speaker 2: back to the United States and face punishment, punishment he

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Speaker 2: would not have faced had he stayed in Georgia. I'm

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Speaker 2: guessing things didn't go so well with this mystery woman

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Speaker 2: who he met online.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure she'll wait for him until he gets out

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Speaker 1: because it won't be long, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: We single now so he doesn't have to Yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: really Yeah, he's available. He's available now.

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Speaker 1: But he won't be in jail long. And look and

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Speaker 1: the reason to your point there, he could have stayed,

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Speaker 1: but he came back to face punishment. But he's not

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Speaker 1: facing years and years or anything like that in prison,

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Speaker 1: because this is a misdemeanor. To your point, I don't

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Speaker 1: think he came back to face justice, did he. He

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Speaker 1: came back because he didn't have anywhere or anybody.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking the relationship didn't go so well and probably

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Speaker 2: wanted to see if he could somehow salvage a relationship

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Speaker 2: with his children.

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Speaker 1: Do you think she knew the Russian Russian speaking? I

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Speaker 1: think she was from Uzbekistan, butanel she had any idea,

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: They didn't say, but I would think that she wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: Have known been on board with him face the old dad.

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Speaker 2: What woman would say, Oh, that sounds like a good idea.

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Speaker 2: Leave your wife and your children and fake your death

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Speaker 2: and come be with me. No, nobody wants to live

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Speaker 2: a life on the run or be interested in somebody

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Speaker 2: who is going to not be able to travel or

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Speaker 2: actually use their name. That's always looking over their shoulder,

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Speaker 2: who's done something criminal? Do you want to be associated

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Speaker 2: with someone who he's done something criminal? Especially if you're

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Speaker 2: living in a country like that, perhaps you're thinking, ooh,

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Speaker 2: a wealthy American or just at least having a life

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Speaker 2: where you have a sense of comfort and peace. Not

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Speaker 2: one of the authorities could catch us at any moment.

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Speaker 2: So yes, I'm thinking she didn't know.

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Speaker 1: She did know, all right, So he's come back, he's

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Speaker 1: faced justice this week. He has been sentenced by the

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Speaker 1: judge two eighty nine days in jail. The prosecution was

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Speaker 1: only asking for about half of that, forty five right

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Speaker 1: in jail for that, but the judge in I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you should be cute and clever, but this was,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, something poetic about it. At least I liked.

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Speaker 2: It a I liked that the judge doubled it just

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Speaker 2: because he could, but also because he chose the exact

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Speaker 2: amount of days that he was missing. So those were

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Speaker 2: the days that his family suffered that authorities were searching

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Speaker 2: that lake, where resources were being used to try and

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Speaker 2: find him, And so those eighty nine days where everyone

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Speaker 2: was in the dark. Those are the same eighty nine

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Speaker 2: days he will spend behind bars. I think that is poetic,

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Speaker 2: and that is that does feel like justice, you know.

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Speaker 1: I do like sometimes when judges do things like this right,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it's I don't know, it's not even a

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Speaker 1: matter of the punishment, right, forty five days or ninety days,

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Speaker 1: is that it's not a severe jail time. But just

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Speaker 1: to make a point, I kind of like when judges do.

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Speaker 2: That, I do too. He also has to pay back

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Speaker 2: thirty thousand dollars in restitution. That's the money that the

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Speaker 2: local authorities spent looking for him, searching for him, trying

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Speaker 2: to find him, And that also seems very fair.

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Speaker 1: How can you pay back? I get that, But there

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Speaker 1: are folks out there who, yes, they're doing their job,

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Speaker 1: that are were genuinely concerned and trying to bring like

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Speaker 1: their hearts were in it for this guy.

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Speaker 2: How like if you are you know anyone who is

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Speaker 2: in emergency services of any kind, I just think are

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Speaker 2: so incredible and we rely on them. Obviously they're constantly

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Speaker 2: in life for death situations. But imagine if you're a

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Speaker 2: trained rescue diver and you're going in in cold frigid

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Speaker 2: waters or at least you know, uncomfortable conditions to try

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Speaker 2: and get answers for a family, and you're trained to

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Speaker 2: do so, and you spend your time and you spend

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Speaker 2: your effort, and you're looking and you're thinking, and your

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Speaker 2: enter to know that it was all a hoax. That's

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Speaker 2: got to be really tough, you know.

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Speaker 1: And you say it that way when you do account

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Speaker 1: for I mean, you're going underwater. Who knows what can

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Speaker 1: happen with equipment you're scuba up. Yeah, look, you're putting

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Speaker 1: yourself in danger, exactly at risk as well. So I

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Speaker 1: that part is necessary. We should always happen in these cases.

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Speaker 1: So again I'm okay with this sentence, with it. I

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Speaker 1: don't know who this judge is, but I'm okay with it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and Ryan did get his dan court work. He

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Speaker 2: did get to speak, and he had an apology for

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Speaker 2: the court. He had an apology for the people who

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Speaker 2: once loved him. Not sure how many are still in

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Speaker 2: that camp or not, but this is what he had

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Speaker 2: to say. He said, I deeply regret the actions I

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Speaker 2: did that night and all the pain I caused my

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Speaker 2: family and friends. I wonder just even at this point,

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Speaker 2: what his circle is like now? Who is still in

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Speaker 2: his camp? And can he should he? Does he deserve

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Speaker 2: a second chance by friends and family members, certainly not

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Speaker 2: his wife. I get that, but I wonder where people

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Speaker 2: feel or how people feel about second chances. I know

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Speaker 2: you're not a big second chances guy.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, I am personally my Oh there you go

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Speaker 1: personally on a whole other level. When I look at

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Speaker 1: something and look at somebody like this and I my

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Speaker 1: first thought obviously is to the kids and that harm

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Speaker 1: and that story. What you think about when you think

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Speaker 1: about him? You're like, what in God's name? Yes, we

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Speaker 1: want to go with some stupid dude chasing some hot

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Speaker 1: piece of tail cross the line.

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Speaker 2: We want to think that, We want to demonize him,

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Speaker 2: and he should be.

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Speaker 1: I'm not knocking anybody for doing so. I am so

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Speaker 1: curious when we talk about this all the time. You

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Speaker 1: can stop an emotional response if you ask first, be curious.

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Speaker 1: And I am curious. What was going on in this

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Speaker 1: man's life that got him to that point of desperation?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: What happened? Because it wasn't an instant thing. He had

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Speaker 1: months to plan and put He had months to go

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Speaker 1: this is stupid.

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Speaker 2: You know, you know it's this you're speaking of stupid.

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Speaker 2: You might laugh at me, but one of my favorite movies,

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Speaker 2: I love Sleeping with the Enemy Julia Roberts. When I'm

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Speaker 2: reading what he did about how he had this inflatable boat,

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Speaker 2: he got on shore, he washed away the footprints so

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Speaker 2: that no one could see that, he came back on

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Speaker 2: shore and retrieved a stash electric bike that he had

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Speaker 2: placed so that he could then travel to Canada. Ultimately,

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Speaker 2: that all sounds like what Julia Roberts did to get

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Speaker 2: away from a physically and mentally abusive husband. Like that

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Speaker 2: is the thing people do when they're desperate, when they're

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Speaker 2: in fear for their lives, when there's no other way

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Speaker 2: to escape, because they're afraid whoever they're with is going

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Speaker 2: to come find them, hunt them down and kill them.

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Speaker 2: That these are the actions of someone who is desperate.

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Speaker 2: And so that's what was mind blowing to me. And

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Speaker 2: so we don't know what was going on in his head,

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Speaker 2: and maybe there is some sort of story where we

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Speaker 2: could understand his desperation. We don't know, but it just

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Speaker 2: suddenly reminded me of that movie. It's a good one.

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Speaker 1: She did a better job. It took him longer to

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Speaker 1: track her down than it took.

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Speaker 2: The when the towels were placed perfectly in the in

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Speaker 2: the in the we're all perfectly because he had O

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Speaker 2: CD and like and by the way, from one O

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Speaker 2: c D to the next, yeah, I get that.

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Speaker 1: Just compared me to a even killer guy.

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Speaker 2: I would be desperate just to come find you, not

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Speaker 2: to get away home. My god.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is enough of this. I'm gonna go, Kayak

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Speaker 1: and y'all. We'll talk to y'all soon, and always appreciate

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Speaker 1: y'all listening here on Amy and t J Presents

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Speaker 2: Two two