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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show, fellow conspiracy realist. This is

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Speaker 1: the week of an infamous anniversary in United States history,

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Speaker 1: and that's why we're bringing you not only this classic,

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Speaker 1: but another conversation with JFK expert Rob Ryder, who's done

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Speaker 1: a couple of other things as well, a few so

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Speaker 1: with this classic. You know, we've been looking at the

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Speaker 1: JFK assassination for quite some time. It's part of modern

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Speaker 1: American folklore, and with that, it's it's not surprising that

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Speaker 1: there would be modern myths and legends built up around

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Speaker 1: just this family.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Well, there have been so many deaths that

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Speaker 2: just appear to be horrible accidents, right, But when you

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Speaker 2: look at them all in order. Let's say, if you

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Speaker 2: looked at all of the Kennedy families who've died in

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Speaker 2: plane crashes, for instance, it all begins to or it

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Speaker 2: seems like maybe a pattern.

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Speaker 1: And how much of that is us searching for patterns

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Speaker 1: or seeing those that don't exist, versus there being some

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Speaker 1: sand to the so called Kennedy curse.

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Speaker 3: Let's jump right into it.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

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Speaker 2: name is Noah.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben.

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Speaker 1: We are joined with our super producer, Paul cape Cod Dectt.

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Speaker 3: Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. A Wicked Had episode, I should say,

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Speaker 1: pack the cat, have it yad, Yes, Wicked Had Yes,

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Speaker 1: just so, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's how you do it the only way.

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Speaker 1: We might run into a few of those accents in

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Speaker 1: today's show. So, by the way, at the top of

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Speaker 1: the show, go ahead and give us a call at

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Speaker 1: one eight three three st d w y t K

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Speaker 1: as you listen along and let us hear your craziest

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Speaker 1: uh Northeastern accent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd love to hear, especially if you're not from there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, which we are not.

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Speaker 5: By the way, chicking in the cay the guy won't go.

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Speaker 5: It's different but similar.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's also the pet cemetery main accents of

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Speaker 1: my favorite you know you burry you out, I'll go

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Speaker 1: into the road loss Hey said, I was a no

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Speaker 1: I used to.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes that is better.

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Speaker 3: It was a knight, just like this.

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Speaker 2: I'm just gonna agree with you again.

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Speaker 5: Mom, Matt, you got this.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 5: Give us fun.

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Speaker 3: You know you're not.

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Speaker 5: You're not gonna grace us with your golden voice.

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Speaker 3: It'll come with all right, that's fine, right, okay?

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Speaker 1: Uh, why are we talking about Northeastern accents? Why are

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Speaker 1: we talking about Massachusetts in particular? We're so glad you asked,

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Speaker 1: because we are attempting to add a little bit of levity.

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Speaker 1: What is going to be a story riddled with tragedy, lousey,

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Speaker 1: with disaster, replete, and overflowing with untimely death. Today we

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Speaker 1: are talking about the Kennedy family, one of the most

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Speaker 1: influential political dynasties in recent US history. They're on the

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Speaker 1: level of the Roosevelts or the Tats.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're the American political dynasty, I would say, rather

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Speaker 2: than other than the Bushes perhaps, and maybe the.

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Speaker 1: Clintons, and maybe the Clintons. The people would also often

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Speaker 1: cite the years of the JFK presidency as the Camelot time, right,

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Speaker 1: and they romanticize it.

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Speaker 5: Did you guys say? There was a meme floating around.

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Speaker 6: It was an image of Bill Clinton kind of peeking

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Speaker 6: out from behind these bronze sculptures of George and Barbara

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Speaker 6: Bush and the caption was Clinton hiding in the bushes.

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Speaker 3: I have not seen that one.

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Speaker 5: Nope, it's cute.

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Speaker 1: Well, according to some, despite their tremendous success in the

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Speaker 1: world of pr right in public diplomacy, the Kennedy family has.

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Speaker 3: A dark side. That's also not a debate.

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Speaker 1: But today's question is it's the Kennedy Family cursed. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if many people have heard about this, Matt.

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Speaker 1: I think you brought this one to us originally, right.

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Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, just because I've heard I've heard of it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm not sure. We perhaps were discussing JFK in

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Speaker 2: an episode.

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Speaker 3: I think it came up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Okay, Well, here are the facts. We've covered

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Speaker 1: a lot of things related to the Kennedy family before,

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Speaker 1: Like you said, with JFK RFK, we have that at

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Speaker 1: least videos on that. We've also dove in poor choice

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Speaker 1: of words to the chap Equittic incident. Yeah, let's just

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Speaker 1: keep it.

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Speaker 5: Let's just come on man own it.

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Speaker 1: And we had a fantastic interview with the writers of

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Speaker 1: chap Equittic. But this stuff all comes into play. This

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Speaker 1: is a an overall look at these tragedies. But first

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Speaker 1: we have to learn about who the Kennedys are, which

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Speaker 1: I don't think we've ever done on this show. The

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Speaker 1: Kennedy family origin, and let's do their early timeline. Surprise, surprise,

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Speaker 1: they come from Ireland. Yeah, in case they didn't already

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Speaker 1: get that across.

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Speaker 6: Now, and this is a shot here, but do you

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Speaker 6: think early Kennedy influence stemmed from those political machines that

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Speaker 6: raised up Irish immigrants to positions of prominence.

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Speaker 1: It's it's an interesting question, and I would I would

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Speaker 1: say definitely, because you know, we hear a lot about

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Speaker 1: Tammany Hall and New York, but Boston was not very different.

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Speaker 5: I had their own I'm sure. I don't know what

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Speaker 5: it's called.

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Speaker 1: No, Yeah, well, well let's starting in Ireland. There's a

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Speaker 1: guy named Brian Kennedy. As you could tell, this is

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Speaker 1: close to his heart, and he says the origins of

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Speaker 1: the family can be traced to a clan called which

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Speaker 1: I will mispronounce because I don't speak Gaelic. Oh, and

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Speaker 1: you know I went to Ireland recently. All the signs

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Speaker 1: are in Gaelic and English.

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Speaker 6: Which is a script of its own right. Almost like

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Speaker 6: Cyrillic or like the Russian alphabet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty cool.

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Speaker 3: You can.

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Speaker 1: I was trying to learn Gaelic just while I was there,

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Speaker 1: to say cool phrases, but no one cared.

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Speaker 3: Everyone spoke English.

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Speaker 1: I saw one television channel I think was like a

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Speaker 1: public education thing with these people speaking Gaelic.

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Speaker 3: That sounded really cool.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, interesting.

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Speaker 1: We've just been alerted by our super producer Paul that

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Speaker 1: most people in Ireland do not, in fact call it Gaelic.

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Speaker 1: They call it Irish. Irish, you speak Irish. Well, that

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Speaker 1: was a long intro to something that I am about

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Speaker 1: to mispronounce. Their family clan was osiniad Fione, which was

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Speaker 1: one of three clans ruled a kingdom named or Mooned,

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Speaker 1: and they resided in what is today Pecaine, County Tipperary

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Speaker 1: in fifteen forty six, but they lost their social status

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Speaker 1: in the New English Order in the Kingdom of Ireland

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Speaker 1: and they had to move. They ended up in Donganstown,

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Speaker 1: New Ross, County Wexford by seventeen forty and that is

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Speaker 1: where a fellow named Patrick Kennedy is born in eighteen

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Speaker 1: twenty three. Patrick cam Bridget Murphy are the first Kennedys

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Speaker 1: to live in the US. Patrick worked as a cooper,

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Speaker 1: which means he made barrels.

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Speaker 2: Nice. That's a good thing. Make you need a lot

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Speaker 2: of those in eighteen hundreds, especially.

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Speaker 1: If you're going to get into bootlegging down the line spoilers.

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Speaker 1: They have five kids, Patrick and Bridget, and one of

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Speaker 1: these Patrick Joseph Kennedy or PJ to his buddies, which

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Speaker 1: for some reason, I just love that as a nickname.

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Speaker 1: He became a legitimate businessman.

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Speaker 2: And a legitimate businessman.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and served in the state legislature. This makes him

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Speaker 1: the first Kennedy politician here in the States. He's also

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Speaker 1: the paternal grandfather of President JFK, one of Pj's kids.

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Speaker 3: Guy, And it gets confusing here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's Patrick Joseph Kennedy and then he's got

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Speaker 1: a kid named Joseph Patrick Kennedy.

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Speaker 3: It's also known as Joe.

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Speaker 2: So there's PJ and Joe.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they like that j and JP ye.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they got charged extra at the

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Speaker 1: hospital for using new names and they just continually had

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Speaker 1: to trade these out. But yeah, Joe was born in

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighty eight and he is the one who became

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Speaker 1: instrumental in the family's political and financial rise.

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Speaker 3: And he was kind of a shady cat.

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Speaker 5: Yeah he was.

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Speaker 2: Let's say, he was known to associate with certain elements

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Speaker 2: of the underworld.

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Speaker 5: Elements I'm sorry, are you using hyperbole here?

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Speaker 2: And also the mob, oh yeah, gangsters, yeah, the Irish Italians,

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Speaker 2: some of the he had some friends in some places well.

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Speaker 6: And again with the whole political machine thing that was

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Speaker 6: an early version of like the mob, not an early version,

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Speaker 6: but operated very similarly, make getting collections and influencing votes

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Speaker 6: and you know, state events.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, intimidating rival politicians. Even so, he is a character,

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Speaker 1: fraud with mystery and could be an episode of his own.

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Speaker 1: Not the nicest man. He was a controversial figure in

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Speaker 1: Boston because, despite the fact that he made a ton

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Speaker 1: of money through what he claims were legitimate means, in

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Speaker 1: high society in Boston, money alone cannot pave your path

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Speaker 1: to acceptance. It doesn't matter how much money you have,

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Speaker 1: if you earned it in the last few generations, you're

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Speaker 1: a peasant.

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Speaker 5: It's gotta be old money, yeah, old old money.

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Speaker 1: And he wanted to buy his way into this society

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Speaker 1: to gain the acceptance but it was tough because when

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Speaker 1: big rumors about him, even though he always say he

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Speaker 1: was a legitimate businessman, one of the big rumors about

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Speaker 1: him for decades that persist even today is that he

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Speaker 1: was intimately involved with bootlegging.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we can recommend a book called The Patriarch,

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Speaker 2: The Remarkable Life and Turbulent Times of Joseph P. Kennedy

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Speaker 2: if you want to learn a lot more about him,

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Speaker 2: right right.

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Speaker 1: And he went on to work as a US ambassador

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Speaker 1: to London, which started to gain him entrance into the

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Speaker 1: upper echelons of the political class. And it's there that

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Speaker 1: he continued to make some hard decisions. He got kind

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Speaker 1: of house of cards with it, didn't he. But we'll

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Speaker 1: get into that his time over the pond in a

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Speaker 1: little bit. For now, maybe we can talk about some

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Speaker 1: of the notable individuals of the Kennedy Klan.

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Speaker 5: First we have JFK.

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Speaker 6: John Fitzgerald Kennedy, the thirty fifth President of these fair

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Speaker 6: United States. Then we have his are there, Ted Kennedy,

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Speaker 6: a Senator from Massachusetts, and I believe, guys, the long

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Speaker 6: one of the longest standing senators my history of the office.

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Speaker 2: Known as the Lion of the Senate, the Lion.

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Speaker 6: Then we have Robert Bobby right Kennedy, Yes, who is

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Speaker 6: Attorney General and later a senator from New York.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 1: And these are just the top three, right, We've got

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Speaker 1: there's several other Kennedy's that are influential in business and

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Speaker 1: that are influential to one degree or another in politics.

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Speaker 1: The family overall has amassed a cartoonishly large fortune at

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Speaker 1: this point. It's estimated to be five hundred million dollars

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Speaker 1: if we're talking net worth. But that's just what's on

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Speaker 1: the books, and there's some pretty compelling evidence that, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're at that level, there's pretty compelling evidence that

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Speaker 1: they have the means to not be entirely transparent.

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Speaker 5: To like offshore accounts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, offshore accounts maybe things that wouldn't be recognized in

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Speaker 1: terms of assets or things that are you know, properties

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Speaker 1: in other countries where reporting laws.

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Speaker 2: Are a little looser, a little different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just like the accusations of the Bush family years

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Speaker 1: back buying all that land in Paraguay.

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Speaker 3: Right, do you remember that one?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I remember that. That one disappeared from the news too.

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Speaker 6: Weird when that happens, you gotta wonder, I know, their machinations.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, does it mean they were just wrong?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Or what you know, because one thing that we don't

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Speaker 1: see a lot of nowadays is any attention paid to

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Speaker 1: retractions in the news, right, because nobody came out and said, no,

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Speaker 1: that never happened. The Paraguay thing, it just disappeared.

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Speaker 5: We just if we don't talk about it anymore, it

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Speaker 5: never happened.

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Speaker 1: Like at the Pentagon where they say we don't lie,

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Speaker 1: the truth just changes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, that's a real like they actually say lead. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you'll probably notice, fellow conspiracy realist, that at this

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Speaker 1: point we have not mentioned anything particularly tragic, just the

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Speaker 1: story of one's family's rise to the political elite of

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Speaker 1: the US. But what if there is more to this tale?

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Speaker 1: Could the Kennedy family in fact be cursed?

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Speaker 2: We'll find out right after a quick word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 3: Years where it gets crazy. So how did this curse begin?

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Speaker 6: If it's a curse, you just did two handed quotation

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Speaker 6: fingers large. But yeah, but it's hard to argue with

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Speaker 6: the level of seeming cursedness that we're about to delve into.

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Speaker 3: There we go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a there's a guy named Edward Kleine who

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Speaker 1: is billed as a political researcher, and he says that

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Speaker 1: he thinks this curse has haunted the Kennedy family for

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty years, but there's no uh no,

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Speaker 1: one really agrees on what events started it or how

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Speaker 1: a curse is defined.

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Speaker 6: Well, a curse is what happened when a witch will,

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Speaker 6: let's have fingers at you and says, I curss thee.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be anybody if you know the evil eyes.

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Speaker 1: That's true, I'm doing the evil.

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Speaker 3: Double.

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Speaker 2: Let's say, okay, let's put it this way. A lot

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Speaker 2: of it's interesting that Klein puts it at one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty years because most everything seems to stem back

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Speaker 2: to the offspring of Joe Kennedy, not the grandfather, but

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Speaker 2: the father of Robert and JFK. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And

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Speaker 2: a lot of times with a curse, the folklore of

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Speaker 2: a curse, the history of curses, you curse a person

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Speaker 2: in their bloodline essentially, right, so descendants from that curse, well,

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, a lot.

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Speaker 5: Of times a pox upon your house.

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Speaker 2: So it's interesting that they put one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: years because I wouldn't I wouldn't go back exactly that far.

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Speaker 2: If I was the one saying, hey, this family looks cursed,

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Speaker 2: I would probably put it on Joe rather than on

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Speaker 2: Patrick Joseph Kennedy, just because it's mostly his kids in

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Speaker 2: their offspring that are really getting the bad end of the.

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Speaker 3: Stick, the fuzzy side of the lollipop.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as our old mentor used to say, Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a really good point. So when we're talking about Joseph himself,

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Speaker 1: let's go back to what he actually did across the

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Speaker 1: pond that would later become controversial.

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Speaker 2: So we mentioned before that he was he became an

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Speaker 2: ambassador to England while he is working in his political career.

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Speaker 2: Then you know, World War Two happened, and in the

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Speaker 2: run up to World War two, as the Nazi Party

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Speaker 2: begins taking over, there's a lot of debate in England

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Speaker 2: as to, you know, how do we deal with this

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Speaker 2: threat with these people that are threatening us, They're threatening

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Speaker 2: all of our neighbors. They're doing unspeakable, horrible things. We're

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Speaker 2: going to try and cut them off from a monetary

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Speaker 2: perspective as much as we can, you know, by not

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Speaker 2: buying and selling goods to them. Anyway, there are a

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Speaker 2: lot of ideas that are floated around, and there are

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Speaker 2: some people in high society in England who disagree completely.

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Speaker 2: So we've got on one side. You've got let's go

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Speaker 2: through this, Ben, We've got Neville Chamberlain who Nazi appeasement

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Speaker 2: is what it's kind of referred to as right, but

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Speaker 2: it's more of let's not necessarily give them everything they want,

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Speaker 2: but let's try and work with them to a point

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Speaker 2: where they're not gonna bomb the absolute crap out of

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Speaker 2: us and just overthrow our government.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the idea being that maybe not entirely capitulating giving

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Speaker 1: a few things to Nazi Germany at the time, would

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Speaker 1: I guess stable eyes the country or sort of mitigate

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Speaker 1: the aggression and also put them on a footing where

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Speaker 1: the Western Powers were saying to Germany, we understand that

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Speaker 1: you guys got pretty screwed after World War One.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we see that you've got issues.

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Speaker 1: We're sorry that you feel like you need an apology.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Do you get a sense though this wasn't entirely with

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Speaker 6: evil intent, I mean it was, you know, it was,

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Speaker 6: it was. It was one way of behaving to try

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Speaker 6: to get things done right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's a philosophy on how to handle a

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Speaker 2: very tough situation, because on the other end, when you've

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Speaker 2: got military leaders who are saying no, we have we

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Speaker 2: absolutely have to fight them on the beaches. We had

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Speaker 2: to fight them everywhere. We got to say no, you bastards,

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Speaker 2: get back.

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Speaker 3: Can we play that? You play the let's Paul? Can

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Speaker 3: we play the Churchill.

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Speaker 8: Quote from Seats and Oceans. We shall fight with growing

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Speaker 8: confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend

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Speaker 8: our island, whatever the couch may be. We shall fight

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Speaker 8: on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds.

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Speaker 8: We shall fight in the fields and in the streaks.

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Speaker 8: We shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender.

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Speaker 2: That really was Gary Oldman's finest role is finest time.

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Speaker 9: I mean he deserved the darkest I remember when we

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Speaker 9: had we had an ad read for that ship, and

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Speaker 9: we had to redo it because we said the darkest hour.

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Speaker 5: It was actually just the darkest hour, the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we hope you enjoyed that ad reading. And

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Speaker 1: it is a good film. I'll give him that. I

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Speaker 1: really think that guy's a great actor. But as much

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Speaker 1: as I like Gary Oldman, my one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: historical figures at this day, at this point in time

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Speaker 1: in the story is rip, roar and drunk. Look in

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Speaker 1: Winston Churchill, that guy was insane. He like he helped

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Speaker 1: win World War two and I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: woke up remembering it most mornings.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, just oh no, you're right, man.

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Speaker 6: He definitely seemed sast almost any time he was on mic.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but you know what that's it's like, what is it?

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Speaker 8: Uh?

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Speaker 6: Hemingway says, you're not really a man until you're drunk,

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Speaker 6: being like you're not your best self. Not to encourage

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Speaker 6: the listeners here to just live life drunk, but there's

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Speaker 6: something to be said in that when you see these

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Speaker 6: people that are just like so in the zone through

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Speaker 6: utter drunkenness.

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Speaker 3: It was to.

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Speaker 1: Behold, it was probably a you know, there's state dependent learning.

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Speaker 1: They had normalized at that point, so they may not

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Speaker 1: have been able. It's really sad to say they may

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Speaker 1: not have been able to function.

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Speaker 6: So same with those ad men, you know, like oh yeah,

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Speaker 6: just the culture of like pitching these ideas while taking

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Speaker 6: your nine a m glass of whiskey.

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Speaker 1: You know what kind assass A frast fancy boy is

368
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Speaker 1: too good for Martini at en right, Okay, So this

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Speaker 1: so Winston Churchill said we have to go to war.

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Speaker 1: Appeasement will not work. And you know, his side was right,

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Speaker 1: but that is not the side that Joe was on.

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Speaker 2: That's correct, and and so a lot of people think

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Speaker 2: that perhaps some well actually Wilisia's go into this. He

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Speaker 2: was maligned, like he was viewed in a very negative light,

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Speaker 2: especially in the United States after this came out, that

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Speaker 2: he was they you know, he was called the Nazi sympathizer.

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Speaker 5: He was on the wrong side of history. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And again, like it's tough to say back then,

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Speaker 2: like maybe he truly believed that this was a way

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Speaker 2: to get out of it in a better way than

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Speaker 2: just I mean, we're talking about scores of people, you know,

382
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Speaker 2: British citizens who died as a result of the World

383
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Speaker 2: War two and the Nazis. But at the time it

384
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Speaker 2: was just a terrible thing, a terrible thing to do

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Speaker 2: in the aftermath of World War Two. And then he

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Speaker 2: had political aspirations in the US and ultimately those were

387
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Speaker 2: just dashing against the wall because everybody looked at him

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Speaker 2: in that light.

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Speaker 5: Well it's rough too.

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Speaker 6: Considering the outcome, he definitely comes off as like taking

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Speaker 6: the moral low ground, you know.

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Speaker 5: When you really knowing what we know or what you

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Speaker 5: knew even just a little bit later, even like you know,

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Speaker 5: toying with that.

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Speaker 3: Notion was a bad look. They also had.

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Speaker 1: There are indications that he had personal prejudice involved. As

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Speaker 1: far as anti Semitism, well.

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Speaker 2: There are their indications, and it is tough because a

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Speaker 2: lot of it ends up being not rumor but a

400
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 2: little more hearsay than you know, an actual thing you

401
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Speaker 2: can prove.

402
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Speaker 1: There's correspondence between some of the Kennedy family from Kennedy

403
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Speaker 1: and Joe Junior in nineteen thirty four in which the

404
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:53,880
Speaker 1: son calls the Nazis dislike of Jewish people quote well founded,

405
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Speaker 1: and the dad is saying, I'm very pleased and gratified

406
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Speaker 1: at your observations of the German city situation.

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Speaker 2: Geez, okay, that's worse than I understood.

408
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Speaker 3: So could that have been How is that related to

409
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Speaker 3: this curse?

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Speaker 2: Well, the thought is, perhaps, you know, that's pre a

411
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Speaker 2: lot of the cursing that's happening. I think nineteen forty

412
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Speaker 2: four is the first one that we've like clocked later

413
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 2: on in our timeline as to the first part of

414
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Speaker 2: the curse. So it would make sense if there was

415
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Speaker 2: a curse applied around this time, like beginning to middle

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Speaker 2: of World War.

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Speaker 1: Two, I as seem and that that kind of verges

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Speaker 1: on a spiritual aspect.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sure, well, well that's this is another theory

420
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Speaker 2: that I've seen online, is that perhaps because of the

421
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 2: way that Joe Kennedy amassed his fortune. You know, even

422
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Speaker 2: though he says, oh, you know, I'm a businessman, just

423
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Speaker 2: like his grandma, his father said, I'm a businessman, perhaps

424
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 2: there was some ill gotten gains there, maybe a family

425
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Speaker 2: that was you know, taken advantage of, or someone got hurt.

426
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Speaker 2: So basically, either we've got in some of the theories

427
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Speaker 2: that have been put forth, either he's been cursed in

428
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 2: some way because of his involvement with World War two,

429
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Speaker 2: in the Nazis, or with some other group that he

430
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Speaker 2: wronged in amassing his fortune. Okay, that's what I have

431
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Speaker 2: seen online.

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Speaker 3: I like that, you say group. I like the idea

433
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Speaker 3: of some.

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Speaker 1: Real world interest pursuing someone. So you can already see

435
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: some of the issues here, folks.

436
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Speaker 3: There's no.

437
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: Universally agreed on theory on what could have happened or

438
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 1: triggered a curse. There are several compelling guesses. As you said, Matt,

439
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 1: the most compelling timelines do seem to trace it to

440
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: Joe Kennedy, absolutely, but most use of the term curse

441
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: just centers on describing this strange collection of tragic events

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00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: that appear to bedevil this family much more so than

443
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: the average Jane and John Doe Smith Nuyan.

444
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 5: Nuian.

445
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 3: It's twenty eighteen. It's American.

446
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 6: Man, that's a fun one. I never knew how to

447
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 6: pronounce that until about twenty sixteen.

448
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, is it hyphenated Smith Nugan, I.

449
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:14,719
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know.

450
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm picking a generic, average American family.

451
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 6: So it's crazy, though, you guys, when you see these

452
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 6: stacked up like in a list, it's a lot.

453
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 3: It's a lot.

454
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 2: But also remember there are a lot of Kennedy's, that's true,

455
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 2: and associated Kennedy's.

456
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 5: That's true. And then times were volatile.

457
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: And there are people who are Kennedy adjacent sort of

458
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: the way, like Redman is always hanging out with Wu Tang,

459
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: but is not himself in Wu Tang.

460
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, what are okay?

461
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: So, like, what are some examples of the curses I

462
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: think are examples of the curse itself.

463
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: Well, ultimately, there are a lot of deaths that we

464
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 2: would consider to be untimely. Sure early deaths, every death

465
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 2: is earlier than it should be, right or airplane accidents.

466
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 2: That's a whole category that we can kind of put

467
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 2: in here, because the Kennedys fly a lot. Most some

468
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: of the most affluent people do fly the most because

469
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 2: you can afford it, or perhaps you have your pilot's license,

470
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 2: and in this case, the Kennedys did fly a whole lot.

471
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: The first though, the first person who was killed in

472
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 2: an aircraft accident was actually serving his country when when

473
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 2: he was killed he was not a private pilot at

474
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 2: the time. On August twelfth, nineteen forty four. Joseph Kennedy Junior.

475
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 2: This is the older brother of JFK. He was killed

476
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: in an aircraft explosion when he was serving during the

477
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 2: Second World War. So nineteen forty four, Joseph Kennedy Junior.

478
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 6: Okay, So, then in nineteen forty eight May thirteen, we

479
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 6: have Kathleen Cavendish, who is JFK's sister and also the

480
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 6: wife of the Marquis of Hartington.

481
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what is that?

482
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 3: Ah?

483
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 6: Yes, the Barque of Hartington make some kind of weird

484
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 6: like like Connecticut local government position.

485
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: Let's do a Google search.

486
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 1: What's Yeah, it's a landed title in the UK. So

487
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: what a lot of what a lot of political dynasties

488
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: do to get around what they sell to you as

489
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: a voter if you're in the US. What a lot

490
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: of them do to get the aristocratic heights that they

491
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: want as they marry into aristocratic families. So when it's

492
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: voting season, they can still put on some I'll say it,

493
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: they can still put on a pair of bullshit overalls

494
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: in a baseball cap and act like they have remotely

495
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: anything to do with ordinary people.

496
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, like a duke.

497
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 2: An earl, duke over heydude.

498
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,959
Speaker 5: That's funny anyway.

499
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 6: So we've got Kathleen Cavendish, the apparent husband to the

500
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 6: Marquis of Hartington.

501
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 5: She dies in a plane crash in France.

502
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 3: Yep, yep.

503
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: And there's another plane crash in June nineteenth of nineteen

504
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: sixty four. Ted Kennedy is in this plane crash, and

505
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: he and a senator named Birch Bob both survive with

506
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: some pretty pretty grizzly injuries.

507
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 5: And the Reaper is gunning for this fellow.

508
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: One of Kennedy's aides dies in the crash, and the

509
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: pilot of the plane also dies. I have a quick

510
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: question with this. It seems like a ton of plane crashes.

511
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: But to your earlier point, Matt, they were flying more

512
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: than average. And also I'm wondering if plane technology, if

513
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: aviation safety technology was just not where it is now.

514
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 5: I'm certain they must be the cave well.

515
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,239
Speaker 2: And they're also in small private Yeah, I mean, if

516
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: there's just a higher risk with those with those aircraft.

517
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 5: No Kennedy will fly commercial unheard of.

518
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: In sixty nine there is the infamous chap Equitic incident

519
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: where Mary Joe Kopecni dies, is abandoned to drown by

520
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: Ted Kennedy, who survives and somehow retains a political career.

521
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: But that is commonly considered to be the nail in

522
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: the coffin of his presidential ambitions.

523
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, but again, somehow.

524
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 3: I would say, rightly, so, yeah, but.

525
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: Then you're right, somehow ended up being one of the

526
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: most beloved senators out there.

527
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: Somehow, soon we forget, so what else we have, because

528
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: this isn't all of it?

529
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, is it?

530
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 2: No? No, we're still going through all this. Okay, nineteen

531
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: ninety seven, you have Michael L. Kennedy. He's one of

532
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: Robert Robert Kennedy's children. He dies in a skiing accident

533
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: of all things, out in Colorado, and apparently there was

534
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: this Kennedy tradition of doing downhill skiing while playing American football.

535
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

536
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: So it's this weird thing where they would split up

537
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: the like if you're looking the whole slope, they would

538
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 2: split the slope up into varying fields. So like when

539
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: you're in this section, you're in one field and you

540
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: can score, then you're in this section you can score

541
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: in this field, and it just kind of goes down, down, down, down.

542
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 5: So what you're saying, mad is that he was asking

543
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 5: for it.

544
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: No geez no, no.

545
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 5: Okay, alright, I misunderstood your meaning.

546
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: I will. I will say that some onlookers who would

547
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: view the this Kennedy tradition of playing this game thought

548
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 2: it was extremely dangerous.

549
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. It sounds it sounds really dumb.

550
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 3: Michael lemoy and Kennedy, why are you doing this name?

551
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 2: Okay, so much to live for? Well, the strange thing

552
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: is that you get rid of your polls, because you

553
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 2: need your hands to catch the football and to throw it. Yeah,

554
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: and you're just going down these big slopes and you're

555
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: looking behind you sometimes to throw the ball, looking ahead

556
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: of you throw the ball. And yeah, he unfortunately hit

557
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: a tree.

558
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 3: In thirty nine, right.

559
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, to come through his injuries that way.

560
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 3: Thirty nine years old.

561
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: And then there's another aircraft incident, I believe.

562
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, yes, this is John F. Kennedy Junior.

563
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 3: Yes, his parents probably called him.

564
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: They're probably just screamed Junior at him, Junia Junior, study

565
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: wicked hot.

566
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: Yes, so John F. Kennedy's son, the junior. He was

567
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 2: on his way to Martha's vineyard up there in Cape

568
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: Cod again, flying a light plane, like a small plane,

569
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: and he crashed after he got a little disoriented. I

570
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: guess while he was in flight. He was flying at night,

571
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: which is you know, a little dangerous because if your

572
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 2: instruments go bad, it's it's pretty rough out there. He

573
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: ended up crashing in the ocean and he died there.

574
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 6: Yes, it seems like these Kennedy's were risk takers.

575
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 5: True.

576
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: True, there's more to the story too, because this is

577
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: just scratching the surface I'm sure you can figure out

578
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: what we're going to dive into next, but see if

579
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: you're correct or not.

580
00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 3: After this brick.

581
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: We have returned, and we must also acknowledge the most

582
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: widely known, untimely deaths in the Kennedy line. Those are

583
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in November twenty second,

584
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three. As he rides through Dallas, Texas.

585
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 6: Lee Harvey Oswald, who we later discover was his assassin,

586
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 6: is gunned down at a police station two days later,

587
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 6: and this created, as we on this show in this

588
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 6: community very well know, widespread conspiracies about the president's death.

589
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 5: You know, was there more than one shooter? Was he

590
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 5: taken out by the government.

591
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 6: I mean, it's too long days, the mob, the Russians,

592
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 6: it just goes on.

593
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 3: Yes, and his brother Robert F. Kennedy.

594
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: Look, it doesn't matter if you consider yourself a fan

595
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: of the Kennedys or not. They were super into nepotism,

596
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: and nepotism is poisonous for the type of government that

597
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: we are.

598
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 3: Supposed to have.

599
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: I just have to put that in there. I know

600
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: that these people pasted. I know these assassinations were unjust,

601
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: but it's doing everyone at disservice if we ignore the

602
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: fact that nepotism is a very, very bad thing.

603
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 5: You feel very strongly about this, Ben, You've mentioned it before.

604
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: Them, absolutely, and I will continue mentioning it until somebody

605
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: with a problem gets their brother or their cousin in

606
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: office and shuts down our show because it matters that much.

607
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 3: I hope I'm not poking the bear too much here, guys.

608
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: But regardless, I'm not saying that they're I'm not saying

609
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: that they are inherently bad.

610
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 3: Roberto Robert F.

611
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: Kennedy is the Attorney General, right, so he's holding one

612
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: of the highest offices in the land legally speaking, while

613
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: his brother is arguably holding one of the highest offices

614
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: in the world.

615
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 5: This is weird.

616
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 3: That's weird.

617
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 5: Now, this is the whole thing. Yeah, and then he

618
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 5: gets he gets a bullet too. He gets an assassin's

619
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 5: bullet too, right, I mean.

620
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 6: Assassinations in US politics.

621
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 5: I don't see them as being wide rife in this.

622
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: They're relatively rare.

623
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so he is.

624
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: He's thirty eight years old, and he is calling for

625
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: further investigations into the JFK assassination because he believes there's

626
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: more to the story. Like the majority of Americans in

627
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: the wake of the JFK assassination, he thinks someone is lying,

628
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: and on June sixth, nineteen sixty eight, he is assassinated

629
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: after winning the California Democratic primary. The gunman sir Han.

630
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: Sir Han is alive now as we record.

631
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 6: This isn't this the one where he was supposedly some

632
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 6: kind of Manchurian candidate.

633
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: He has at least maintained that he has no memory

634
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: of this, that he was programmed somehow, and they're also

635
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: He also argues that forensic evidence and eyewitness reports of

636
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: the shooting back up his story that he was not

637
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: the fatal shooter.

638
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 2: It's fascinating if you started digging into it. I don't

639
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 2: remember if we've done a huge thing on here and

640
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: here here and did something. I know we talked about it.

641
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, it may have been.

642
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 6: Like a like a Hodgepodge kind of episode, but I

643
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 6: definitely remember talking about this sleeper agent kind of stuff.

644
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is frightening. And the big question is can

645
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: you pull it off? How how much it's I guess

646
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: it's more a degree of compulsion it's not can we

647
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: make people do things that would not ordinarily do without

648
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 1: their own knowledge of their actions. That's how advertising works.

649
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: The question is how far can we push it?

650
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 3: Well?

651
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 5: Can I take it? Just to quick aside?

652
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: Sure?

653
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 6: In service of this story, Have you guys seen the

654
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 6: latest Darren Brown.

655
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 5: Special on that miracle Miracle?

656
00:34:58,719 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 3: Yeah?

657
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 6: And you guys, if you don't who Darren Brown is,

658
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 6: he is what is deemed a mentalist. He is an

659
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 6: expert at everything from hypnosis to some more kind of

660
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 6: sketchy pseudosciencey things he's accused of doing. There's a neuro

661
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 6: linguistic programming I think is one of them. And he

662
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 6: is a master of implanting ideas into his subjects' heads.

663
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 6: And he is very good at picking out who will

664
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 6: be most susceptible too said implanted ideas, And when you

665
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 6: see him do his thing, it's hard to like poo

666
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 6: poo it, And it really does make me think, like

667
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 6: what you were saying, Ben, how far could you push

668
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 6: that if you weren't just a showman trying to make

669
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 6: a cool Netflix special.

670
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 3: I have followed that guy for years.

671
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:40,479
Speaker 5: Same I think.

672
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 3: Longtime listeners have heard us mention some of his cooler tricks.

673
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 6: It's weird that all of a sudden, though, he's getting

674
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 6: Netflix specials and he's been around for twenty years.

675
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: You think it's us, you guys hope so, I'd like

676
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: to think so, But for our purposes, I think the

677
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: fantastic players. There's so many questions that remain about these assassinations.

678
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: We got pretty oustiously optimistic earlier this year when some

679
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: formally classified statements about the JFK assassination were due to

680
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: be released, but not much.

681
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, came out of it.

682
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 3: It wasn't much in there got.

683
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: A black ink yeah, yeah, like that old Onion article

684
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 1: where the CIA says they found out they've been using

685
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: black highlighters.

686
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, for the past few decades.

687
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: So these are the two most popular ones. But there

688
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: are other stories that get ignored, And we would be

689
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: remiss if we did not point out a story, a

690
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: tragedy in the Kennedy family that for decades was just

691
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: not talked about, not just not talked about by the

692
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: Kennedys themselves, but not talked about by their support staff,

693
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 1: the various I guess people that they bound to obey

694
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: them or however you would describe that relationship and they

695
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: the president talked about it either. And that is Rosemary Kennedy,

696
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: who was one of the daughters of Rose Kennedy and

697
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: daughter of Joe Kennedy. She was arguably intellectually disabled in

698
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: a family with very high standards, and her father scheduled

699
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 1: a lobotomy for her, of course without her consent, a

700
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: catastrophic operation that left her with the mental capacity of

701
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: a toffler.

702
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, when she was twenty three.

703
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 10: This was forty one and nineteen forty one, so this

704
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 10: predates all the other stuff. So there's also some rumors

705
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 10: out there that maybe again you kind of got to

706
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 10: go out on a limb for this stuff, but maybe

707
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 10: somehow she's taken revenge on her family.

708
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, such a barbaric thing to do to someone.

709
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 6: And you know, it was just such a blind shot

710
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 6: in the dark. You know's nothing backing it up. What

711
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 6: would they have said was a reason that this would

712
00:37:58,239 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 6: be a good thing to do.

713
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 2: Well, by the way, she was assertive and she was

714
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 2: rebellious as she was getting older. Oh so like she

715
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: was endangering the Kennedy name. Essentially she had ideas, Yeah, seriously.

716
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 1: So this and didn't perhaps have the sense of nuanced

717
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: diplomacy and brand building that these folks were doing on

718
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: their way to becoming your next American empire. So the

719
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: way it was most likely sold was this will make

720
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: her more amenable and docile. That's the way people handle

721
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: the botomies. Oh my god, it'll help them be calm forever.

722
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

723
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 6: Spoiler alert for one flow over the cuckoo's nest like

724
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 6: that time and one flew over the cuckoo's nest.

725
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go. Oh man, that's such a great book.

726
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 2: By the way that I think, I think this is

727
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 2: the best horror movie version of the Kennedy Curse is

728
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 2: that they do this horrible thing to their one child,

729
00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 2: and it's kept a secret, and she's actually somehow taking.

730
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 6: Especially the one child being somewhat precocious and willful. I

731
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 6: guess right, and you know, and then I'm gonna shut

732
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 6: you down. You didn't think I was good enough to

733
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 6: be part of your you know, family line? Well, here

734
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 6: we go.

735
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: That's a very compelling. Oh yeah, that's a very compelling

736
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 1: story that I have to ask you, guys and everyone listening,

737
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: do you all believe in something like karma? Do you

738
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: think it's a possibility.

739
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 6: I don't know it's I think it's a name we

740
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 6: give for something very ephemeral and indescribable. I said to

741
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 6: someone the other day. God is the name we give

742
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 6: for improbable happenstance, you know what I mean, where Like

743
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 6: things just line up in a certain way, things work out,

744
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 6: and you call it God or something. That's just I

745
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 6: see this very similarly. It's the opposite, though, things align

746
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 6: in a very horrible way over a long period of time,

747
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 6: a dark coincidence, right.

748
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if bad things happen to people who

749
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: deserve them. I think often people who are not constrained

750
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: by things like empathy or the human race being viewed

751
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 1: as a team sport. Yeah, I think they go around

752
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: doing terrible things without foreseeable or predictable consequences.

753
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 6: Because they just steamroller anyone that's in their way and

754
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 6: they have no scruples.

755
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you hear the kids. That's how you get ahead

756
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: in life. You don't be nice, You become a steamroller,

757
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 2: and then you hit go and that's it done.

758
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,760
Speaker 1: Until until the good, the good guys who do exist

759
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 1: find you and stop you.

760
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: It's just I don't know, Well, it's hard to stop

761
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 2: a steamroll. The only way you can really stop a

762
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: steamroller is if you've got a hill, then you're good.

763
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 5: That's good man. Or with a bigger steamroller.

764
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 2: There you go.

765
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, like a giant zamboni. I know they're not steam rollers.

766
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: It's all good.

767
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 3: I just wanted to say, zamboni. Have you seen they

768
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 3: are fantastic inventions.

769
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 5: Makes me think of a magician.

770
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, uh me zamboni.

771
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 5: Right, that's the ice you got, great zamboni.

772
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: You know. So, Also, to be fair to the controversial

773
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: figure of Joe Kennedy, it is completely possible that they

774
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: legitimately thought this would help, that they wouldn't be crippling

775
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: their daughter.

776
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you have a doctor telling you this is

777
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: a little help, per No.

778
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 6: I know even today we we we just we take

779
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 6: the doctor's word at face value. Even with that, when

780
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 6: it comes to our own health, it's so easy to

781
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 6: just like, well, this is you're you're the expert.

782
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: This company is paying me to tell you that this

783
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 2: drug is awesome for what you got.

784
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 6: Did you see that thing where an artist put a

785
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 6: giant sculpture of a heroin spoon outside of that company

786
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 6: that makes all the opioids?

787
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 5: Whoa he got.

788
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 6: Arrested for like impeding a thoroughfare. It's like a really

789
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 6: ridiculous clause. That's the company's name now I can't remember.

790
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 6: It's not bear It. It was the Purdue, the Purdue

791
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 6: family pharmaceutical company.

792
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 2: Not the chicken.

793
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: Not the chicken. No, not to malign the chicken produce.

794
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: They are unrelated to the opiate produce. But that you know,

795
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: what's a great point about that, is there a lot

796
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: of people with the last named Kennedy who are not

797
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: themselves related.

798
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 3: To these Kennedys. Yes, so we should we should point

799
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 3: that out. We should also ask.

800
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: Is this a true curse or is this just a

801
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: murky set of terrible, indefensible coincidences. Skeptics argue that what

802
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: appears to be a curse is more likely just cherry picking.

803
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: We're only finding notably tragic events from this huge family,

804
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: and that it's also not improbable or even unlikely for

805
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: a similar large family to have similar disasters, regardless of

806
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 1: their social standing. So if we just expand our sample

807
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: size large enough from that Smith New Yen example or whatever,

808
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: and will eventually be able to find someone who is

809
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: in a playing crash, someone who got a very specific

810
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: type of cancer.

811
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 6: It's the same even when you start tracing people's lineages,

812
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 6: and at the end of the day, everyone's related to everyone, right, Yeah,

813
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 6: you get a long enough timeline, big enough sample size,

814
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 6: stuff happens, right.

815
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 5: But you guys, I'm just gonna ask you, Matt, curses.

816
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 2: Do I believe in them?

817
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 5: Oh?

818
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 2: Man, that's tough, because if you don't believe in curses,

819
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: you better believe you're getting cursed. But no, I don't

820
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,439
Speaker 2: really believe in curses. But that's just because I guess

821
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: my life has been pretty good so far, so you know, yeah,

822
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: what about You.

823
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 5: Know, there's compelling stuff out there. I'm always a little

824
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 5: bit of a.

825
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 6: Fence sitter when it comes to this kind of stuff,

826
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 6: But I don't know, sometimes I feel pulled.

827
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 5: In one way or the other depending on what I'm

828
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 5: looking at, you know what I mean. I don't know.

829
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 6: I try not to have a hard fast no to anything.

830
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 6: I try to be open curses, no, just in general.

831
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 8: You know.

832
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 6: You know, I'm definitely skeptical about a lot of things,

833
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 6: but I am always open to being convinced otherwise. And

834
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 6: when you look at this stuff just stacked up the

835
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 6: way we looked at it sums up, Well, I don't know.

836
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 2: Here's the deal, do you? What do you think? Ben?

837
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,839
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, okay, so I am full disclosure.

838
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: I should say that various parts of my family do

839
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: completely believe in this, for various reasons that we will

840
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 1: not get into. But Ted Kennedy himself seemed to believe

841
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: that there was a curse afoot. He publicly mentioned the

842
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: phrase in nineteen sixty nine when he was testifying about

843
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: that time that he abandoned and drowned Mary Joe Kopecney.

844
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that curse that, you know, befell him as he escaped.

845
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: And yeah, I gotta be really tough for him to

846
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: again his cushy job right to again leave a woman

847
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: in a car to die of asphyxiation just for taking

848
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: and ride with him.

849
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 3: That's what he did.

850
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that he didn't do good legislation, but

851
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: he also again abandoned some what left of a car

852
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,479
Speaker 1: to die, basically got away with murder and got away

853
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: with Yeah. So let's let's just play the clip. You

854
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: can hear him say it's a curse.

855
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 7: Whether some awful curse did actually hang over all the

856
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 7: Kennedys whether there was some justifiable reason for me to

857
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 7: doubt what had happened and to delay my report.

858
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: And to your question, no, there's another factor here, and

859
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: it's one that doesn't often get seriously considered in the

860
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,439
Speaker 1: mass media because when we call something a curse, we're

861
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: conjuring these images, right of this, this nefarious warlock, a sorcerer,

862
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: a witch, the evil eye, a pox on your house,

863
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 1: and all this highly dramatic fictional stuff. Yeah, grim was

864
00:45:54,840 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 1: I have newt right, secret, secret arcane markings in the

865
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: house where you can't see, right, written.

866
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 6: In blood, written in blood, Grandma's You ever been cursed

867
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 6: by a grandma? That's pretty that's the worst kind of curse.

868
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 3: A grandmother curse.

869
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: The worst kind of curse in the first is the

870
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:13,760
Speaker 1: words of a grandmother.

871
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 3: Right, so.

872
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: Hold the horses, she's heading for the buckwheat. That's not

873
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: my grandmother cursed.

874
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: But there there can be something foul afoot the functions

875
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: like a curse without it necessarily being supernatural. One of

876
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: these could be. One example of this would be a

877
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 1: blood feud. So if, for instance, and I will not

878
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 1: use us as examples because I don't want to jinx us, right,

879
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: that's just another version that's like like a low level curse.

880
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 3: I want to jinx us.

881
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 1: So let's say that's when you curse yourself by accident

882
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: or whomever said I hated that game.

883
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 3: When people we say the same thing. Yeah, I was

884
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 3: trying to let people.

885
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 2: Will says it's a conspiracy by the Coca Cola company

886
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 2: to get you to buy other people cokes. Just so

887
00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 2: you know that.

888
00:46:58,480 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 5: Oh that's right, it's one, two, three four you owe

889
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 5: me a coke? Like what, Yeah, that's a big thing.

890
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 2: You have to buy coke for a really yeah, conspiracy.

891
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: So there can be a vendetta in curse form that

892
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: functions like a curse but doesn't have supernatural stuff. It

893
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: just has a group of people who have agreed to

894
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: carry out actively, right.

895
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 5: Just tormenting members of another.

896
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 6: Like hat Fields and McCoy's or something like that, or

897
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 6: you know, poisonings, political assassinations, you know, crimes of that level.

898
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 3: Too, right, right, right, exactly.

899
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 6: And when you're a big giant political dynasty like the Kennedy's, right,

900
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 6: you're a target, man, you got a you're a moving target.

901
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm thinking because the primary examples for

902
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: people who believe there is a curse in something that

903
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: operates like it would be the allegations of the assassination

904
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: of RFK being related to his investigation of his brother's assassination.

905
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 3: That for people who believe they are related, and.

906
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: I'm one, I rarely stayed my personal opinion on the show.

907
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: But too much stuff, too much stuff adds.

908
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 5: You really brought it full circle.

909
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: Man.

910
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 5: That's really interesting.

911
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 6: It's a really good point you make that this, you know,

912
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 6: curse is another name for a phenomenon that you can't

913
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 6: fully explain. But when you really start to look at

914
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 6: this situation, it really starts to feel more like they

915
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 6: just had a lot of enemies.

916
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they definitely had quite a few conflicts.

917
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: I don't think you can get it at that level

918
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: without it. But whether you want to call it a curse,

919
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: the result of being above the law for generations or

920
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: just playing bad luck, the Kennedy family remains beset by

921
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 1: problems in the modern day. That is correct, folks. The

922
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: tragedies did not stop after the assassinations. They did not

923
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: stop with the stuff we mentioned, and the Kennedys are

924
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: not always the victims in these situations. In seventy three.

925
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: Nineteen seventy three, August Joseph P. Kennedy the Second crashed

926
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 1: a gep paralyzed his passenger. David Kennedy died of a

927
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: drug overdose in Palm Beach in nineteen eighty four. In April,

928
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 1: and then William Kennedy Smith was arrested and charged with

929
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: the rape of a young woman in the Palm Beach

930
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,919
Speaker 1: Kennedy estate in April of nineteen ninety one. He has

931
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 1: received numerous charges of sexual assault. This was the only

932
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: one to go to court and he was acquitted.

933
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 6: No way, Yeah, sarcastic if you couldn't.

934
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 2: Tell if you're interested in that aspect of certain Kennedys.

935
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 2: But if there's also rumors about a lot of the

936
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: other male Kennedy's right having to do with sexual assault

937
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: and rape in some of these things, most of these

938
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 2: are allegations that cannot be proven. But you can go

939
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 2: to the New York Post and you can read something

940
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 2: by Maureen Callahan and it's called the Real Curse of

941
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 2: the Kennedy and it deals a lot with some of

942
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 2: these allegations.

943
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: And then we have the case of Michael Skakeel, a

944
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: nephew of Robert Kennedy's widow, Ethel Kennedy, who was convicted

945
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 1: of bludgeoning his neighbor in two thousand and two.

946
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 6: Wait, wait, wait, this is the first non Kennedy name

947
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 6: we've had in this sordid tale. Why is the escape

948
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 6: and not a Kennedy?

949
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: This is the redman to the Wu Tangs kind of

950
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: situation I have mentioned earlier. Yeah, both were fifteen at

951
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: the time. I feel like we talked. Did we talk

952
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: about this in the chap Equittic episode?

953
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 2: I don't think we have.

954
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: Oh well, he was accused of bludgeoning a girl named

955
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: Martha Moxley to death with a golf club when they

956
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 1: were both fifteen. There were some other kids that were there.

957
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: He was granted a new trial in twenty thirteen and

958
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: freed on bail. Three years later, prosecutors appealed the court

959
00:50:55,560 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: reinstated his conviction. He's asked them to reconsider. He's still

960
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: on bail.

961
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 2: Jeez. So that was two thousand and two when he

962
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 2: was first like taking a court for that stuff.

963
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 3: That's when he was convicted.

964
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, gotcha, And he was convicted of doing that. But

965
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: he was convicted in two thousand and two. But the

966
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: crime occurred in nineteen seventy five.

967
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 2: Okay, and then we had those two in the nineties,

968
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 2: by the way, the skiing accident, and then I think

969
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: one car accident or was that a plane crash, plane

970
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:33,240
Speaker 2: crash plane straight yeah, yeah, that was ninety nine JFK.

971
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 2: Junior's plane crash. So two in the nineties. Then there

972
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 2: after that, and then we get to twenty twelve May sixteenth,

973
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 2: This is when Mary Richardson Kennedy was found. She had

974
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 2: committed suicide. She was found there on the estate in Bedford,

975
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 2: New York. And that remember that thing that we were

976
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 2: talking about, the real curse of the Kennedys, It surrounds

977
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 2: that particular suicide. If you're interested again, if you want

978
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 2: to read more.

979
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: Well, okay, on this note, of course, as Matt said,

980
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: every death is too soon, and so we hope that

981
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: we hope that.

982
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 3: If except for Hitler, for Hitler, sure.

983
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: And so of course we hope that your family is

984
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: not beset by problems like this. We also want to

985
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: know what do you think. Do you think there is

986
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: a genuine curse or is this just an agglomeration of

987
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: coincidence framed in a specific way.

988
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 5: You know, m hm.

989
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you do think it is a curse,

990
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: why do you think it's happening. What's the core of it,

991
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 2: the inciting incident, I guess because there's always one of those,

992
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 2: if there is a curse.

993
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: And I'm interested if a Kennedy ran for president today,

994
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:53,439
Speaker 1: once you vote for.

995
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,959
Speaker 2: Them, mm on principle, Like just because it's a name,

996
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 2: is what we're asking you.

997
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, like name recognition far Like how much does that

998
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: play into the story.

999
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 2: And we're just thinking about it's because we're thinking about

1000
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 2: changing our names honestly to Kennedy to so we can

1001
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 2: run for office. So all three of.

1002
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 3: Us are all four of us paulls out on this

1003
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 3: full disclosure.

1004
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 2: We're all going to start flying small aircraft ink cod but.

1005
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: You know, we'll be careful and it has to be

1006
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 1: four of us so that we're not kkk.

1007
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 3: Yep, you know what I mean. Just think of the

1008
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 3: memes we got to have.

1009
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 2: For once one of us goes down, though we're screwed.

1010
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 1: Maybe we should each just get take the name of

1011
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 1: a political dynasty.

1012
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,840
Speaker 2: Okay, there could be a Roosevelt Roosevelt, Kennedy, Bush Clinton.

1013
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: Oh who got stuck with Bush I'll be bush.

1014
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 5: That's good.

1015
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 2: It's all.

1016
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 6: I knew the golden pipes would would rear their beautiful

1017
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 6: tones eventually.

1018
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: And since we we finally got some amazing uh map

1019
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: pressions Matt impressions there, that means.

1020
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 5: We can Matt libs, Matt lips.

1021
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 3: There we go. That's worth it.

1022
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 1: We can now bid this episode a do in peace,

1023
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 1: lay it to rest, and hope that stragedies do not

1024
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: continue in the Kennedy family, in your own family, heck,

1025
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: in any family.

1026
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 5: Haven't they suffered.

1027
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 2: Enough enough with the tragedies world and fate and whoever

1028
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,280
Speaker 2: else controls this kind of thing. Stop it just be nice.

1029
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, let us know what do you think it's

1030
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: a matter of karma? Is a coincidence? We want to

1031
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: hear your take. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook,

1032
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: and Twitter, where we are conspiracy stuff, conspiracy Stuff show

1033
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 1: some variation thereof.

1034
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 6: You can also find us on Facebook, and if you

1035
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 6: really want to go down a fun rabbit hole, you

1036
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 6: can join our Here's where It Gets Crazy Facebook group

1037
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 6: where you'll find things like this amazing poster of this

1038
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 6: upcoming movie starring Sam Elliott called the Man Who Killed

1039
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 6: Hitler and then the Bigfoot.

1040
00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 2: Oh really both.

1041
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm both a ring Sam Elliott, Aiden Turner, Caitlin

1042
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 6: Fitzgerald and Larry Miller and our boy Ron Livingston. And

1043
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 6: at first people thought that it was a spoof, but

1044
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 6: it is a real picture my friends coming soon to

1045
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 6: a cinema near you.

1046
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, And that's the end of this classic episode.

1047
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 2: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode,

1048
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 2: you can get into contact with us in a number

1049
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 2: of different ways. One of the best is to give

1050
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 2: us a call. Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK.

1051
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 2: If you don't want to do that, you can send

1052
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 2: us a good old fashioned email.

1053
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,399
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1054
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to know is a production

1055
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1056
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,240
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.