WEBVTT - Apple's EU Fine and Anthropic's Claude Model Family 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:04.560 From Mahard where Innovation of Money and Power Collie in 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:06.200 Silicon Valley, NBN. 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:10.560 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.239 I'm Caroline heard a Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York, 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:28.480 Im Ed Ludlow in San Francisco. 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:30.360 This is Bloomberg Technology coming up. 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.600 Apple gets slapped with a one point eight billion euro 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.760 fine by the EU. That's for abusing its dominant position 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:38.880 the distribution of music streaming apps. 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:40.760 Will bring you all the details. 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:45.080 Plus AI's startup, Anthropic, is launching new versions of its 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:48.760 chatbot Claude that are twice as likely to answer a 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:53.840 question correctly. We discuss the launch with Anthropic president Daniella Amodi. 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:57.080 An Amazon employees catch a glimpse into the future of 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.920 work with humanoid robots as they enter their houses. Will 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.360 go behind the scenes to the look at agility, robotics, 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:07.039 two legged bot, name digit all that so much more 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:09.360 coming up. Let's get into these markets, though, and look 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.240 after fifteen records on the S and P five hundred, 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:13.640 we just give up some of our gains and I 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:15.840 chinlight what's happening with a nastag We're only off by 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:18.120 a bad a tenth of percent, but notably, we are 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.080 just having a little bit of caution after we digest 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.480 a lot of the market run up that we've seen 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:27.039 most broadly in AI stocks, in particular Gone Dragon index. 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.080 I want to chinelight what's happening on Chinese stocks, Like 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:31.319 the NBC is upon us, We're still not perhaps going 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.440 to get the articulation of grand focus on growth and 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.200 stimulation coming from China, and indeed, where is the press 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.160 conference from the premiere That's not going to be happening 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.600 this time. Some anxiety around Chinese stocks and we see 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:44.920 that reflected in the US training of those names. 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.160 I'm looking at the tenure yield just up three basis points. 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:49.000 We look ahead to the jobs data that we get 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:50.680 later in the week a little bit more fed speak, 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:52.680 so all eyes on where we go in terms of 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:54.760 the data. But we see bonds just training a little 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.440 bit lower. What is not training lower, what continues to outperform, 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:00.240 and of course thin liquidity on the weekend, and just 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.000 to continue into a drive up today on Monday, trading 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:04.360 five point seven percent. 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:05.560 Higher in good old pitcoin. 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.320 We are getting ever closer to that all important record 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:09.960 level that we had a sixty nine thousand. We're currently 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:12.520 at sixty six spot or to one, so keep an 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:14.560 eye on that particular discusset ed what have you've gone 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:15.799 on the micro Well. 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:18.200 Another name that's pushing higher is in video. This is 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:21.800 in Videa's market cap two point one three trillion dollars, 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:25.360 the milestone that it reached Friday's close and into Mondays. 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:29.200 It's now the world's third most valuable company by market 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:33.000 cap on a dollar basis, jumping above Saudi Aramco. Will 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:34.959 continue to track that. Maybe we can discuss it a 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:35.760 little later. 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:36.120 On the show. 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.280 One other megacap the number two company in the world, 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.800 Apple is moving to the downside. The stock down two 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.000 point seven percent. That represents a drop of around eighty 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.920 billion dollars in market cap in this session alone. At 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.480 one point, the stockdown more than three percent, which would 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:54.080 be a one hundred billion dollar market cap drop. This 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:58.000 is not only the first EU anti trust fine that 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.840 has been directed towards Apple. I think it's significantly bigger 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:03.680 than we thought it was going to be one point 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:08.960 eight billion euros two billion dollars, and it's all about 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:15.120 market abuse in a music streaming context that Apple plans 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:16.640 to appeal. They're going to push back on this, and 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:18.920 I think we brace ourselves, Caro, for a lot of 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:19.880 litigation to come. 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.080 And of course we know who delivers those fines. Who 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.519 continues to focus on big tech is the EU Competition 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:27.560 chief Margaret Vesta. 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:29.480 Let's just hear what she had to say about it. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.640 Today, the Commission has fined Apple one point eight four 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:40.440 billion euros for abusing its dominant position on the market 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.240 for the distribution of music streaming apps. 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:46.480 Let's get over to Brussels where that news comes from. 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:50.040 Lumberg's Oliver Krook is with us and Olie. What's interesting is, yes, 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:52.280 the money, but when you're looking at Apple in terms 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:53.880 of one hundreds of billions of god in cash, the 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.640 money doesn't always matter. It's a precedent and it's also 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:59.280 what changes in behavior that the EU is demanding. 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:03.320 Right absolutely, I mean this is a much larger fine 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.520 as ed was outlining that we had anticipated. I mean 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:08.400 the reporting on this was five hundred million euros was expected. 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:10.720 This is almost four times that, right, So there is 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:11.920 a sort of a bit of a shock there, and 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.080 it's all about abuse on the iOS, on the app, 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:16.680 on what sort of apps and what kind of competition 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.120 Apple was allowing to have from other people, And the 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:22.400 EUS said, come out and said it plainly, how Apple 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.760 acted was illegal. They've been doing it for ten years 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.200 and they need to remedy this immediately. There is some 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:31.240 doubt perhaps that this will be enough money to change behavior. However, 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.680 again it's coming in quite above what everybody had anticipated, 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:36.599 and Apple saying that they're going to appeal it that 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.039 the regulators haven't proven because this is a market that 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.960 has still grown. But Veslayer herself was saying that something 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.680 like twenty percent of consumers who might have adopted Spotify 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:47.760 did not get the chance to even see it. So 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:49.760 this is really what's going to the crosshairs into a 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.599 week where there's a major piece of legislation on tech 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.160 regalization coming out of Brussels. 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:59.479 We just showed Apple's response to the fine and the announcement. 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:04.720 They gave a kind of pointed quote saying that in 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:09.440 the context of competition, they feel that today's decision protects 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.599 one clear European company which is a market leader in 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:16.120 music streaming. They didn't name them, but they're talking about Spotify. 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.159 What is what is the debate here Oliver. You have 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.680 the EU saying one thing and Apple basically saying the opposite. 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:28.320 Yeah, well, Apple's saying, how can you say we've had 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.320 such an effect on this when Spotify has done amazingly well, 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.400 has done a huge amount of growth and has not 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.680 you know, has not really suffered by according to them. 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.760 Of course, Spotify does not see things quite the same way. 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.240 And Margaret Vesselayers had mentioned this in the press conference 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.480 that she held earlier today, is saying that basically, you 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.160 don't know how much more growth was available here potentially 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.479 to Europe. So listen, you're going to hear this from Apple, 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:52.520 You're going to hear this from from the United States, 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:54.440 but here in Europe. I mean, they really want to 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.000 stake their claim on being the regulators. And it comes 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.680 again the Digital Markets Act, which will come into force 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:00.400 on Thursday. 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:00.920 Think about it. 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.800 We're talking about one company, the app store and dealing 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.440 with music streaming. Starting this Thursday, you have major tech 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.200 companies that are going to be the touched by regulation 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:12.560 that is trying to deal with all of this kind 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.200 of competition in a major way. And that's not just 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:16.880 in the app Store, and it's not just with these 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.680 sort of apps. It is all encompassing these and they 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:21.920 really want to set a strong message that you need 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.000 to comply and that they are serious and that they 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.040 are here for business. I mean, listen, when you look 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.400 at this actual this actual fine one point eight four billion, right, 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:31.400 they broke this down. When you look at the arithmetic, 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:35.279 it's quite interesting. One point eight four billion. One point 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.320 eight of that is a lump sum that was put 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.640 on top specifically because it was Apple and why because 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.760 it correlates to their annual revenue zero point five percent. 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:45.760 So this is the EU saying that they're here and 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:46.719 they're here for business. 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:48.080 All right. 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:51.360 Bloomberg's Oliver Kirkout and Brussels across one of the top stories, 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:53.960 and tune in tomorrow when Oliver will sit down for 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:58.799 an interview with EU Executive Vice President Margreta Vesta. Coming 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.960 up on this program, we're going to talk about reddits IPO, 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.960 artificial intelligence, this collapse of Silicon Valley Bank, a big, 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.960 big and broad conversation coming up with Citizens Financial Group 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.960 chair and CEO Bruce ben Sorn. Caroline, I see some 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:14.920 breaking news in the airlines. 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:16.880 Yeah, KiB an eye on Boeing in particular. This is 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:20.320 a big breakthrough for them. American Airlines is indeed going 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.320 to be agreeing to buy two hundred and sixty new 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:26.200 short haul aircraft from Boeing, includes well eighty five Boeing 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:27.800 seven three seven Max tens. 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.320 That's a key endorsement. Therefore for the Plaine makecraft. 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.320 Well, we know January's near catastrophic incident on the airborne 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:38.160 Alaska Airlines flight currently up two point three percent on 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.720 American Airlines. Boeing still off by some three tenths of 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.440 a percent, So eighty five we're going to be seeing 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.800 Boeing Max ten aircraft and eighty five A three twenty 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.480 neo planes some air bus so look actually they're still 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.400 a ninety embry SAA E one hundred and seventy five 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:56.160 regional jets too. So American Airlines is spreading the love, 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.440 but it is giving a eighty five endorsement. 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:00.920 To Boeing Max ten aircraft. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:13.920 There's a broombt tech energy cash flow management. 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:15.880 It's not always the sexiest. 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.720 But it's important and actually AI has a role in 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.520 terms of the sol here. JP Morgan's cashflow management tool 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.360 that runs on artificial intelligence helped some of its corporate 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.960 customers get their slash manual work, but almost ninety percent 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.760 since launching about a year ago, JP Morgan's wholesale payments 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.880 unit now has about twenty five hundred clients using the product. 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.480 And this follows other key banks, other lenders that have 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.280 been stepping up their use of artificial intelligence with the 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.000 aim of guess what, lifting productivity, reducing cost. 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:45.880 Said. One of those banks is Citizens. Let's talk more 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.840 about that with Bruce Van Sawn, chair and CEO Citizens 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.640 Financial Group, who's in town for the Citizens JMP Tech 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.360 conference that kicks off today in San Francisco. So, JP 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.080 Morgan has this idea that they wanted to add a 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.760 billion dollars of value and then the upgraded it to 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.240 one point five billion this year because of the work 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:05.800 they're doing in AI. Do you have a similar goal 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:07.280 in house that you're working on. 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.880 Well, maybe there's a less one less zero on some 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:14.240 of these numbers us versus them size wise, but clearly 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.800 that we have a similar product called cash Flow Essentials, 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.199 which helps small business forecasts through cash flows, and we're 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.720 rolling that out this year and we have great expectations 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:25.400 for it. 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:30.240 You come to town three years after to basically getting your 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:34.080 tech vertical set up through JMP. Is there one clear 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.280 ambition you have for this week that you think you 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.679 know in the conversations you'll have, and I know these 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:40.520 kinds of events, there's a bit of deal making that 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:41.920 goes on in the corridors as well. 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:42.600 Absolutely. 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:42.720 So. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:45.720 We have well over one hundred companies presenting, both private 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.840 companies and public companies. We have several hundred investors attending. 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:51.920 So there's a lot of buzz about this conference, and 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.440 I think it's staged at a very good time where 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:58.160 the markets are starting to look more promising. We're seeing 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:02.600 some green shoots around IPOs, which is terrific, and I 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.520 think just looking at the US economy and how tech 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.680 is powering all industries and how AI has huge potential 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.080 going forward, it's a really good time to have people 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:14.920 get together and exchange their thoughts on that. 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.280 Let's jump in on the IPO situation then read it 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:20.760 is an important one for you. It's one that we're 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.400 talking a lot about on the show at the moment. 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:24.000 Just explain how that came about. 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:27.760 Well, I think we had a long relationship with them, 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:28.960 and so we're going to be one of the co 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:32.679 managers on the transaction and so they haven't filed yet, 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:34.760 but I think there's a huge amount of interest. It's 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:35.480 a great company. 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.720 Let's talk about whether or not that then spurs more 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:41.840 green shoots. As you said, you can't have just one 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:43.640 deal for green shoots in plural. 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:45.240 Are we likely to see. 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.800 A reopening because at the end of twenty twenty three, look, 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.080 I'm now really outperforming where it originally listed at. But 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.240 instacart queries over that one clave Yeo has done well. 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.280 But we all thought this was the reopening and then 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:57.040 it shut again. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:02.520 Yeah, it's been required some patients the last couple of years. 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.880 So when we acquired JMP, it was the fourth quarter 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.000 of twenty one, and the markets were red hot at 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:13.080 that point, and so as rates went up and the 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:17.400 economy wobbled a little bit, I think that basically cut 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:21.880 the interest a little bit in IPOs. But again, I 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.440 think this year is the year when we're going to 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:25.160 see a breakthrough. 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:30.720 Do the breakthroughs have to talk up artificial intelligence, the 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.360 data that can be leaned on, for example, within Reddit, 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.120 the areas of expertise that they're in different adjacent industry groups. 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.000 I think it can be broad I think AI is 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.240 certainly top of mind for the market, but there's plenty 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:50.640 of great companies around security, different technology services that I 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.400 think also it's going to see a lot of growth. 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.840 So that's what the market ultimately focuses on, is what's 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.120 the growth trajectory, And so I think that extends beyond just. 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:03.200 AI, and let's talk about your growth trajectory with citizens 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:07.480 Financial and ultimately how the market is supporting other regional 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.680 lenders and banks such as yourself, because it is but 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.960 a year almost ago that we were in the CrOx 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.640 of the anxiety when it came to regional lenders here 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.040 in the United States, the explosion of Silicon Valley Bank 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.480 and ultimately some of the other spillover effects. Yourself managed 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.000 to whether that storm had different business models in place, 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.319 but your share price is still under pressure, and there's 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.880 still anxiety around commercial real estate, for example, which we 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.960 see front and center with New York Community Bank Corp. 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.040 How are you seeing love green shoots appreciation of your 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:36.959 business at the moment. 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.600 Yeah, So I think last year was a challenging year 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:46.640 for sure, with the idiosyncratic bank failures. Things have stabilized 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:50.040 since then. Certainly, the deposit position is very strong. We 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.920 have a very strong capital position. So last year we've 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.600 spent a lot of time focused on defense and making 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.280 sure our balance sheet was solid, put away plenty of 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:02.200 reserves for areas real estate, which we think those losses 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.280 will be manageable for us. But you know, we always 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.600 talk about you can't just win playing defense, you got 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.679 to play offense as well. So we have some great initiatives. 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.640 We have the Citizens Private Bank, where we lifted out 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.280 a bunch of folks from JP Morgan. We're committed to 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:21.320 this region here in northern California. We have JMP and 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.480 now we came in over the top with the Private bank, 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.600 world class best in breed bankers. So we're connected to 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.000 the whole innovation economy, the VC world, the PE world, 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.200 all the folks who are creating lots of wealth here. 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:35.360 So excited by that. We also have a big effort 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.960 going on in New York, where we had acquired two 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.320 bank franchises a couple of years back, and we're making 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.640 great inroads in that New York market. And then I 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:45.760 would say the third thing that we're high on is 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.439 just our ability to serve private capital around the country. 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:55.400 So we built out M and a capability sponsored coverage capability, 0:13:55.440 --> 0:14:00.720 and so we're really anticipating when private capital really kicks in. 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.440 I think you'll start to see more deal flow in Pe. 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.320 Certainly our pipelines are looking very strong for the year. 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.360 The lesson that I learned out of what happened a 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:13.800 year ago Silicon Valley Bank is how concentrated the access 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:19.120 to working capital was for technology companies SMEs. Essentially, what 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.680 was your big takeaway? What was the one lesson or 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:26.400 permanent change of the last twelve months resulting from that saga? 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.800 Well, I think people were a bit envious about how 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.480 Silicon Valley Bank had locked in a lot of that 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:36.480 customer base, and First Republic also, So now the demise 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.920 of both of those banks creates a real opportunity for folks. 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.800 There's avoid there and so it's all about talent and 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:47.720 it's about commitment. It's about strength of offerings and capabilities. 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.680 And so we're marching right in to help fill that void. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.240 And you'll be hearing from some of those businesses, those 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.240 sectors you're shining a light on at your event this week. 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.440 We thank you so much. Please, friends on Chair, CEO, Citizens, 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:09.680 Financial or group, let's just return to look at the 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:13.080 Elon Musk lawsuit against open ai filed last week and 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.400 as the company violated its founding mission, putting profit ahead 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:20.760 of benefiting humanity, VC community weighing in and treeson and 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.120 of course for Kostla that we saw over the weekend. 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:24.640 But let's get a legal perspective for you. 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.080 Christina Garnia is with US technology lawyer over at Jeffer Mangels, 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.400 Butler and Mitchell, whose practice focuses on technology transactions, on 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.440 intellectual property and a whole raft of areas that have 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:39.400 caught the technology sphere and its focus. But Christina, is 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.400 this some sort of distraction, as a coastal would say 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.960 at the moment, these sorts of lebal implications of open ai, 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:47.880 or will they force some sort of transparency as to 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:51.640 whether or not artificial intelligence should be being grown in 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.200 a closed environment or indeed an open one. 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.840 So I think the complaint is really interesting because it 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.920 really is setting out this framing of you know, open 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.160 ai was open source and it was nonprofit, and so 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:06.800 you know that was sort of this thing that helped 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:08.800 it to grow and to thrive, and you know, this 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.080 is not happening in a vacuum. There's a lot of 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.200 history between the parties, but this is really about you know, 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.359 open source and nonprofit and you see across the technology 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.680 space over the years, a lot of very interesting technologies 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.600 came from the nonprofit space and remained open source. And 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.760 the value of that has been that if there are 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.040 issues with the technology and there's things that need to 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.480 be fixed, you have researchers, academics and technologists who have 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.200 access to it. And so you know, this idea that 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.160 now it is for profit, commercialized and sort of deviated 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.160 from the original mission of what open ai was supposed 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.640 to be, you know, present some really interesting issues and 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.120 you know, again, this isn't happening in a vacuum. So 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.880 you know, there are regulators across the globe who are 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:51.320 looking at AI technologies right now. So this, you know, 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.640 the themes of this lawsuit sort of feed into that 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.080 concern about the stewardship of the technology. So one of 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.680 the interesting things and the complaint is that you know, 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.960 the board itself of open ai started out as this 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.040 depth of knowledge of AI technologies, and one of the 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.720 allegations in the complaint is that the new board doesn't 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.280 have that depth of knowledge, and so there's this larger 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.320 stewardship question. I think that you know, the general consumer 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:19.400 public AI is still very new, right, many people chat 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.000 EBT is there, you know. 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.040 Touch stown now with h le le let's just hit 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.439 let's just hit the brakes a second. That you are 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:31.680 an experience, experienced technology lawyer. But for loads of people, 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.760 I don't think anyone really understands that the root of 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:40.240 MUSK is the plaintiff's complaint here. So he's saying it 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.919 started as a nonprofit for the betterment of humanity, and 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.200 now he's saying that's not the case. But what legal 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:51.320 grounds does MUSK have, if any, to make that complaint 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:53.800 and what is it that he's trying to change. 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.960 So he's bringing a breach of contract claim. That's that's 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.880 basically the basis of the lawsuit. You know, I don't 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:04.720 know what grounds there necessarily are. The complaint is really 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:08.840 around this framing that the articles of incorporation as well 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.280 as communications over the years form the basis of a 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.400 founding agreement and that there's been a violation of that agreement. 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.280 But you know, this was just filed last Thursday. I 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.000 think there are some issues as to whether or not 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.600 there're standing in the case, and so that'll be something 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.919 that we remain to be seen as a case progresses. 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:29.880 The other thing that you know, this case could also 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.199 be this lawsuit filing could be is a device to 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.680 get information. Again, the parties have a long history, and 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:37.680 if the case were to move forward and survive in 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.000 motion to dismissed for example, you know, discovery could you know, 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.960 give the parties access to information they normally wouldn't have. 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.240 So I think it remains to be seen if this 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:50.240 suit really is a betterment of humanity, open source lawsuit 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.160 for the good of AI and for the stewardship of AI, 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:55.800 or whether or not, you know, this was a device 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:56.600 to get information. 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.080 So you know, we'll see what happens over the next 0:18:59.119 --> 0:18:59.679 couple of weeks. 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.360 Yeah, have we ever seen have you ever acted on 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.640 legal arguments that take issue with the fact that ultimately 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.080 a company completely pivoted and whether or not it's a 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.359 pivot of business model application or whether it's that you 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.399 were not for profit and then you became for profit. 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:19.400 Have we got any precedents so that sort of thing, There's. 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.639 Not a lot of precedence in the space. You know, 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.399 many technologies that start as nonprofit do remain so. But 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.280 I think part of this is transparency. I think that 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.720 you know, throughout the complaint there's reference to just the 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:34.000 transparency in the process, the transparency and the transition between 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.240 this nonprofit, open source model and what we're finding today. 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.800 So a lot of this comes back to things that 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.200 you know, have been well tread ground over the last 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.159 you know, year or so in terms of just the 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.159 transparency and open AI and the communications coming out of 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.760 the company. But again, I think that you know, this 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.960 does bring up some really interesting and timely themes around 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:54.400 stewardship of AI generally. 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.480 Christina Ganne, partner at Jeffer Mangles Butler Mature, We're really 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.399 grateful for you expertise and we will continue to track 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.520