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Speaker 1: M u um you know um pod? Was that an interest?

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Speaker 1: Is that how you start a show? Great? Do it? Literally,

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Speaker 1: I'll take I'll take anything at this point. Okay, well

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Speaker 1: just a grunt. I just don't Yeah, this is the bastards.

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Speaker 1: All do your job. This is behind the bastards. Continue.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you. You know what I hate?

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Speaker 1: Sophie what Evans the host of this podcast? Do you

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Speaker 1: haven't introduced yourself? He is Robert Evans. Words words and

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Speaker 1: my guest today, Courtney Cossack and I are going to

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Speaker 1: sit quietly for an hour and a half and that's

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Speaker 1: going to be the podcast. No words. I'm doing a

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Speaker 1: bold new thing and podcasting, or we don't do anything

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Speaker 1: here that bold. There's plenty of meditation pod us that

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Speaker 1: do that. People are allowed to meditate, people are not

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Speaker 1: allowed to meditate. I will I will kick your ass

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Speaker 1: if you meditate during our quiet podcast. Be really stressed

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Speaker 1: out the whole time. Courtney, how are you doing today?

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm pretty good. Considering. Considering is something happening? No,

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Speaker 1: just the world? Just the dumpster fire? Oh, I saw

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Speaker 1: a lovely dumpster fire the other night, so that they

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Speaker 1: could burn a police union down. Yeah, it was. It

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Speaker 1: was a good buck dumpster fire. Courtney, speaking of children,

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Speaker 1: do you like kids? Yeah? Yeah, not really? Okay, Well, um,

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask how you feel about incarcerating

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Speaker 1: children and penitentiaries for what most people would consider modest misbehavior.

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Speaker 1: But I guess you're fine with that. So again back

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Speaker 1: to the ninety minutes of silence that we had planned.

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Speaker 1: I'm into civil rights. I mean, I feel like kids can.

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Speaker 1: I just don't want one. So kids get civil rights?

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Speaker 1: In your head, you're a fan of that. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's a bold stance, children getting civil rights. Um, that's

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Speaker 1: the episode we're gonna talk about. What this is about

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Speaker 1: the war on children? Um, that that our country has

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Speaker 1: been fighting for for a while. Now did you did

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Speaker 1: you know we were fighting a war on children? I

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Speaker 1: it's been brought to my attention. Yeah, we fucking hate

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Speaker 1: kids in this country. We absolutely hate kids. It's it

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Speaker 1: fully rules how much this country hates kids. As of

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Speaker 1: right now this moment, about two hundred thousand children into

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Speaker 1: the adult criminal justice system every year, mostly for non

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Speaker 1: violent crimes. About ten thousand children are housed in adult

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Speaker 1: prisons and jails every single day. Uh, and about of

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Speaker 1: incarcerated kids are locked away in private, for profit facilities.

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Speaker 1: While the number of incarcerated children has fallen somewhat in

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Speaker 1: recent years, it is still massively escalated over where it

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Speaker 1: was in the past. In ninete, only a hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: or hundred and seven thousand children were incarcerated every year,

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Speaker 1: so it's roughly doubled since nineteen uh From nineteen eight three,

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Speaker 1: though tonight day to ninety seven, the number of juveniles

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Speaker 1: incarcerated and adult facilities jumped by around three hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty six. So it used to be way lower than

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Speaker 1: it was back in the eighties, like like a fraction

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Speaker 1: of the number of kids were incarcerated as are now.

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Speaker 1: So that's cool. That is that is not cool. How

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Speaker 1: did we get here, Robert? How did we get here? Well?

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Speaker 1: I wish we were going to explain that, but again,

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Speaker 1: this podcast is mostly going to be ninety minutes of silence. Um, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll shut the funk up. It's okay, No, you shouldn't

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Speaker 1: shut the fun I need to. I'm I am very

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Speaker 1: strung at. I was getting shot at repeatedly by federal

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Speaker 1: agents again last night, so I'm a little bit I'm

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Speaker 1: a little bit punchy. I apologize, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: cool for me saying I'll take anything at this point

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Speaker 1: that grunt earlier fantastic. Let's do this all right, all right?

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Speaker 1: So Courtney, the US incarceraates children at a rate five

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Speaker 1: times higher than the next highest nation, South Africa. Um.

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Speaker 1: So like that that's where we are. Like, if you're looking,

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Speaker 1: if you're playing a global game, um, you're looking at like,

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Speaker 1: what are the things the United States does better? One

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Speaker 1: of the things the best, one of the things on

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Speaker 1: that short list, one of the things that no country

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Speaker 1: can take away from US, is like we're the best

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Speaker 1: at locking children away. We're so good at it. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: like we you think fucking Paraguay can lock up children,

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Speaker 1: Like they don't know shit about locking up kids in Paraguay.

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Speaker 1: They just let him roam, they start rome, They just

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Speaker 1: let him go on the streets like they're goddamn Like,

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Speaker 1: uh juju bees, what's a juju bi? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: They let him out, they let them, they let him wander.

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Speaker 1: It's a problem. So in nineteen sixty, yeah, let's let's

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Speaker 1: talk about where this all started. How America got to

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Speaker 1: the point that it is now. With all these kids

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Speaker 1: not walking around and instead locked up in criminal facilities. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It started, well, kind of the the legal jurisprudence around

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Speaker 1: whether or not it's cool to throw kids in a small,

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Speaker 1: dark hole owned by the government. That all really started

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Speaker 1: to kick off in the nineteen sixties. Um, and for

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Speaker 1: a while they judges and stuff like pretty consistently cited

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Speaker 1: with kids having rights. It started in nineteen sixty four

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Speaker 1: with fifteen year old Gerald Galt. He was convicted of

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Speaker 1: juvenile delinquency by an Arizona juvenile judge and sentenced to

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Speaker 1: be incarcerated until age twenty one. So that was like

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Speaker 1: a seven year sentence, and his crime was making a

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Speaker 1: lewd phone call. Oh my god. Well, yeah, you got

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Speaker 1: a lock of kid away for a quarter of his

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Speaker 1: life for that ship, just during the formative years. No

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Speaker 1: big deal, He'll be fine and throw him in a hole. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he made a dirty phone call. Six years, seven years Jesus.

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Speaker 1: So the young Mr Galt enjoyed no defense counsel, which

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Speaker 1: you might recognize as a violation of what this nation

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Speaker 1: considers to be his basic human rights. He was also

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Speaker 1: sentenced to a vastly higher penalty than an adult would

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Speaker 1: have received for the same crime, because again, fifteen years old,

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Speaker 1: that's like a six year sentence. An adult at the

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Speaker 1: time charged with the same crime making a lewed phone

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Speaker 1: call would have effaced at most two months of jail. Um.

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Speaker 1: So were there was a lawsuit as a result of

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Speaker 1: Jared Galt's case, and his parents filed for a bit

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Speaker 1: of habeas corpus. Now, at the time, juveniles were not

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Speaker 1: allowed to appeal in California, so the Superior Court and

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court of the state backed up this nonsense.

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Speaker 1: Galt's family appealed to the U. S. Supreme Court and

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Speaker 1: they agreed to hear the case for the specific purpose

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Speaker 1: of determining the procedural rights of a juvenile defendant. The

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Speaker 1: courts nineteen sixty seven decision determine that kids have the

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Speaker 1: same due process rights as adults, including the right to counsel.

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Speaker 1: So that's good, that's a win. Yeah, I like that.

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Speaker 1: But wait, was this was he poor? Or how did

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Speaker 1: this even happen? Um? I mean it was Arizona. They

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Speaker 1: they you know, we'll talk a little bit about how

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Speaker 1: it happened, but the gist of it is that while

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Speaker 1: consistently in this period, like the Supreme Court kind of

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Speaker 1: tend has tend tend to decide on this on the

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Speaker 1: side of child's rights. A lot of judges really fucking

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Speaker 1: hated kids and a lot of cops really hated kids,

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Speaker 1: because those are both groups of people. I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of what it comes down to, based on at

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Speaker 1: least my reading, is that judges and cops are both

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Speaker 1: people who are used to receiving a certain kind of

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Speaker 1: respect um often a fear based respect, and kids don't

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Speaker 1: give a ship. And when you are disrespected by a

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Speaker 1: child as one of those types of people, because you're

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Speaker 1: that type of person, your instinct is to lock them

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Speaker 1: in a hole for a large chunk of their life.

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Speaker 1: Punishable character flaw. That's not good. I could call yelling

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Speaker 1: at the cops a character flaw. Yeah. So the Galt

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Speaker 1: case was the start of a series of major wins

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Speaker 1: in the field of children's legal rights. In Tinker v.

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Speaker 1: Des Moine's Independent Community School District in nineteen sixty nine case,

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Speaker 1: the court ruled that public school students cannot be punished

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Speaker 1: for expressing their personal opinions on campus, so long as

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Speaker 1: doing so does not interfere with the work of the

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Speaker 1: school or with other students. In nineteen seventy, the court

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Speaker 1: ruled the juveniles are constitutionally entitled to proof beyond a

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Speaker 1: reasonable doubt before they can be declared delinquent. The sixties were,

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Speaker 1: in general, a pretty good time to be an advocate

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Speaker 1: for the legal rights of children. This period of winds

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Speaker 1: occurred right up until nineteen seventy seven, which is the

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Speaker 1: year the court ruled on Ingraham v. Right. This is

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Speaker 1: the case that determined schools were not violating the Constitution

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Speaker 1: by quote paddling the recalcitant children on the buttocks with

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Speaker 1: the fat, flat wooden paddle measuring less than two feet long,

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Speaker 1: three to four inches wide and about one and a

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Speaker 1: half inch thick. Um. So that's nineteen seventy seven. The

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Speaker 1: court rules schools can still paddle kids. It's not limiting

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Speaker 1: their rights to paddle them. Children were, however, limited to

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Speaker 1: five licks from a paddle um, which is written into jurisprudence.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's why did you ever get hit in

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Speaker 1: the school by your teachers? I did not. I was

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Speaker 1: forced to uh crawl around on the floor. That was

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Speaker 1: probably the most terrible thing, but it was a pretty

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Speaker 1: bad punishment. Uh not hit though, Oh my god, I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine. My mom always tells me stories about getting

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Speaker 1: hit by nuns when she was in my school. Paddled.

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Speaker 1: Definitely paddled your school paddled. Yeah, was that legal? Yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's Oklahoma. Yeah yeah, I forgot about OKLAHOLM. Yeah. They

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Speaker 1: were like, of course you can paddle kids. Can you

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Speaker 1: not paddle kids? Is that Okay? That's the question we

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Speaker 1: have in Oklahoma because we're so busy paddle and kids.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, the Supreme Court rules and seventy seven that

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Speaker 1: you can paddle kids at school, you just can't lick

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Speaker 1: them more than five times. In ninety nine, another court

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Speaker 1: case rules that minors can be placed in state run

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Speaker 1: mental health facilities for basically no reason without any kind

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Speaker 1: of like do process really, um. And so in the

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Speaker 1: late seventies, this kind of trail of anti child court

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Speaker 1: cases continued and sort of the you know, this thing

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Speaker 1: that had started in the sixties with children getting you know,

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Speaker 1: awarded more and more or not, but having more and

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Speaker 1: more rights kind of recognized in court cases. That turns

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Speaker 1: around and uh, courts start chipping away at the rights

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Speaker 1: of children and to not be locked in dark holes

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Speaker 1: by the government for long periods of time. And this

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Speaker 1: continues until nineteen eighty four, when the Supreme Court rules

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Speaker 1: on Shall v. Martin and affirms that children do, in

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Speaker 1: fact have a lesser inherent interest in liberty than adults. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The justification for this is that they are always in

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Speaker 1: some form of custody. So while Galt affirmed, you know

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Speaker 1: that the first case we talked about a firm that

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Speaker 1: children had the right to the same due process as adults,

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Speaker 1: Shall flipped the table and declared that juvenile attention facilities

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Speaker 1: are basically the same as kids living at home or

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Speaker 1: in a foster facility. So it really doesn't matter if

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Speaker 1: kids get sentenced to something without having a lawyer, because

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Speaker 1: kids have no real liberty anyway, and the state putting

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Speaker 1: them in a hole is no different from their parents

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Speaker 1: putting them in a bedroom. Oh that God, who hurt

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Speaker 1: that guy? That's what we need to really investigate, Jesus.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the messed up thing is it's like, who

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Speaker 1: hurt that large room full of judges and all of

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Speaker 1: their aids who decided that was a good way. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of ad right to say that, to be like,

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Speaker 1: kids aren't interested in freedom, like so it's okay. Whatever

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Speaker 1: we did, Whe's okay. It's the most backwards thing, literally now.

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Speaker 1: According to a paper I found in the Temple Law Review,

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Speaker 1: the reason for this tragic reversal and the general decades

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Speaker 1: long trend towards less rights for children under trial is

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Speaker 1: that trial judges in the latter half of the twentieth

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Speaker 1: century really fucking hated kids. And I'm gonna quote from

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Speaker 1: that paper now right after I sneeze fucking tear gas. Okay.

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Speaker 1: The real actors who influenced juvenile justice were state juvenile

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Speaker 1: court judges and administrators, whose hostility to the principles of

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Speaker 1: GALT led many of them to ignore the decision from

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Speaker 1: the very beginning. Many trial level juvenile courts simply ignored

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Speaker 1: Galts thrust when it came to the actual provision of

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Speaker 1: council to juveniles. According to Professor Wally um lineark Quote,

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Speaker 1: studies in the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties found that

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Speaker 1: few children were represented by counsel. The predominant reason is

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Speaker 1: that these juveniles waived their right to counsel, often without

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Speaker 1: being properly informed of the right. State courts also employed

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Speaker 1: insidious methods to ensure the juveniles from poor families, who

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Speaker 1: are supposed to benefit from the constitutional right to free

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Speaker 1: court assigned counsel, never were assigned a lawyer. In Florida,

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Speaker 1: for example, indigency rules were so strict that having five

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Speaker 1: dollars in the bank made a family ineligible for appointment

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Speaker 1: of counsel. Moreover, as Professor Liniak has explained, Florida parents

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Speaker 1: had to pay a forty dollar fee just to apply

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Speaker 1: for an indigency determination. So you see what they do

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Speaker 1: in places like you have the right to a lawyer

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Speaker 1: unless we determine you have too much money to get

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Speaker 1: a free lawyer. And we're saying five dollars is too much.

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Speaker 1: That is so crazy. If your family net worth is

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Speaker 1: five dollars, you're doing way too well for a free lawyer.

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Speaker 1: Where are the social workers in all this? That's like

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Speaker 1: a whole another episode. Probably, Yeah, I mean it's christ underpaid,

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Speaker 1: often traumatized, and let's face it, in some cases, like

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Speaker 1: being very much a part of fucking these kids over

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Speaker 1: because some of them suck to Like it's it's a

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Speaker 1: whole mess, right, and it's this underfunded thing. Um, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just bad. There's not a lot. There's not a

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Speaker 1: lot looking out for poor kids in the states that

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Speaker 1: have the most protections for poor children, right, And Florida

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Speaker 1: is not the most protection state the Arizona of the

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Speaker 1: other side of the East coast, of the East coast. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so accurate. Yeah, good stuff, everybody, good stuff. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be hearing a lot from Florida in this episode,

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Speaker 1: or also gonna hear a lot from trial judges who

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Speaker 1: hate children with a passion that boggles the mind. Um,

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Speaker 1: which is cool and good. Uh, And this was a

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Speaker 1: fun episode to write. Um, that didn't make me want

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Speaker 1: to commit federal crimes anyway. The whole situation um with

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Speaker 1: children's rights degenerated right up through the mid nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 1: which is when a study conducted by the American Bar

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Speaker 1: Association found that huge numbers of kids kids waived their

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Speaker 1: right to counsel without really knowing what they were doing.

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Speaker 1: As a result, the association's report wrote, many children charged

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Speaker 1: with crimes were literally left defenseless and Maryland of kids

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Speaker 1: charged with crimes waived their right to a lawyer. Ent

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Speaker 1: of Louisiana children did, as did fifty to seventy percent

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Speaker 1: of children in Florida and more than half of the

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Speaker 1: children in Georgia, Ohio and Kentucky who went before judges.

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Speaker 1: So that's a lot of kids not having lawyers. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if you know much about kids,

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Speaker 1: but one thing they're not good at is representing themselves

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Speaker 1: in court. My god, they really should be with our

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Speaker 1: education system, I don't know what the fuck. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: good stuff. Everything's good stuff. Um, everything's great stuff. I'm happy.

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Speaker 1: Another major change that happened in the nineteen or from

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Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies to the nineteen nineties was the ease

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Speaker 1: with which courts were allowed to treat juveniles as adults now.

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Speaker 1: Um as in most things, New York State led the

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Speaker 1: way in this. New York was like, we're not treating

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Speaker 1: kids like adults enough when we decide how long to

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Speaker 1: throw them into dark holes owned by the guff let's

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Speaker 1: change that. This is the state of New York and

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Speaker 1: this is the fight we're picking. Um. So in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy eight, they changed their laws in order to make

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Speaker 1: it possible for courts to prosecute children aged thirteen and

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Speaker 1: up an adult criminal court. Um, you know all those

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Speaker 1: hardened adult thirteen year olds that you know, Um, is

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Speaker 1: it like just for murder or I mean that was

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Speaker 1: kind of the justification, but it wound up being for

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Speaker 1: a lot of things, right the idea. The idea was

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Speaker 1: initially like, there's so many dangerous teenage predators, we have

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Speaker 1: to start treating them like adults. But like the people

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Speaker 1: who the kids who actually get tried as adults, most

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Speaker 1: of them are not murderers. So every state in the

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Speaker 1: Union followed New York's example to one extent or another,

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Speaker 1: making it easier to try children as adults. This whole

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Speaker 1: process really accelerated in the late nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 1: Is the crack epidemic fueld waves fears of a new

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Speaker 1: wave of child super predators. Age of offense thresholds were

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Speaker 1: reduced all around the nation, and politicians who had fought

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Speaker 1: for the right of children to be treated as children

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Speaker 1: were attacked for being soft on crime. Now, the two

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Speaker 1: folks most responsible for this, we're right wing criminologist John

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Speaker 1: Delulio and our old buddy James Q. Wilson. If you

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Speaker 1: remember listening through the Behind the Police mini series we did.

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Speaker 1: James Q. Wilson is the co author of the Broken

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Speaker 1: Windows Theory of crime um and coincidentally best friends with

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Speaker 1: the guys who wrote the racist book about i Q

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Speaker 1: the Bell Curve Um, which is far cool group. Dudes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: call me for the barbecue, guys. Yeah, I'm gonna insinuate

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Speaker 1: uh series of racial attitudes towards policing and pushed them

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Speaker 1: so deeply into the zeit guys that people think that

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Speaker 1: they're actually just protecting their neighborhoods when they're in reality

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Speaker 1: contributed to something that could be viewed as almost an

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Speaker 1: active Jennessia. Sorry, I don't I lost I lost track

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Speaker 1: of the surfer pro voice I was doing after a

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Speaker 1: while there. Anyway, Okay, let's catch our breath for a second.

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Speaker 1: Just catch our breath for a second to that minutes

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Speaker 1: of silence? Ready, everyone, back to the ninety minutes of silence.

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Speaker 1: So John Delulio and James Q. Wilson, they write a

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Speaker 1: paper in arguing that the US is about to experience

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Speaker 1: a wave of unprecedented youth crime driven by single parent families, crack, cocaine,

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Speaker 1: and a bunch of other stuff that was all basically

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Speaker 1: coded language for the existence of black people. Wilson predicted

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Speaker 1: that by two thousand ten, there would be two hundred

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Speaker 1: and seventy thousand additional predators on the streets committing violent

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Speaker 1: crimes at an unprecedented level. These children, he wrote, would

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Speaker 1: be radically impulsive, brutally remorseless, elementary school youngsters who packed

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Speaker 1: guns instead of lunches, and have absolutely no respect for

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Speaker 1: human life. So let's put them in a hole. See

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Speaker 1: if it gets better. I also love the idea that

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Speaker 1: they're packing guns instead of lunches because they do two

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Speaker 1: separate things. James, still you still, you still the eat

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Speaker 1: even if you're going to be shooting people, You want

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Speaker 1: to have a lunch. Yeah, like you don't. You don't

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Speaker 1: lose hunger pains just because you're packing a nine. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you might get hungry. So basically, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Republican and democratic like in the American political establishment, bought

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Speaker 1: into the idea of these child super predators to one

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Speaker 1: extent or another. And they also bought into the argument

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Speaker 1: delu Leo and Wilson made about what to do with

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Speaker 1: this upcoming crop of super predators. I'm gonna quote now

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Speaker 1: from the book The End of Policing, delu Leo and

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Speaker 1: his colleagues argued that there was nothing to be done

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Speaker 1: but to exclude such children from from children, from settings

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Speaker 1: where they could harm others, and ultimately to incarcerate them

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Speaker 1: for as long as possible. Delu Leo's ideas were based

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Speaker 1: on spurious evidence and ideologically motivated assumptions that turned out

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Speaker 1: to be totally inaccurate. Every year since, juvenile crime in

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Speaker 1: and out of schools in the US has declined. However,

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Speaker 1: the super predator myth was extremely influential. It generated a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of press coverage, editorials, and legislative action. One

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Speaker 1: of the immediate consequences was a rash of new laws

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Speaker 1: lowering the age of adult criminal responsibility, making it easier

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Speaker 1: to incarceerate young people in adult jails, and keeping with

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Speaker 1: the broader politics of incapacitation and mass incarceration. So that's

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Speaker 1: good ship right there. We're all part of the problem

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Speaker 1: if we're clicking on that clickbait super predator bullshit. Yeah don't.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was the nineties, so that was people

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Speaker 1: people knew less to be dag to be worried about

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Speaker 1: the clicks. But yeah, always be worried about the clicks.

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Speaker 1: Don't don't don't click Atlantic articles yeah, don't click Atlantic articles,

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Speaker 1: just just say no to the Atlantic. So by the

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Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, politicians realized that specifically fucking over children was

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Speaker 1: a really good vote getter. Um. Some elected leaders, like

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Speaker 1: the Republican Speaker of the House also fun children literally

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Speaker 1: because Dennis Hastard is a pedophile. Uh well, also advocating

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Speaker 1: for children to be treated as adults under criminal law.

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Speaker 1: And there's a really dark joke in that whole situation. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I I don't I'm not gonna I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: make it. But there is one in there about Dennis

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Speaker 1: Hastard wanting kids to be treated as adults while he

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Speaker 1: molests a bunch of kids while being the longest serving

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Speaker 1: Republican Speaker of the House. Read about Dennis Hastert, it's

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Speaker 1: a real, real bad story. This is one of the

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Speaker 1: guys who like stood up there and talked about how

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Speaker 1: bad Bill Clinton was. It turns out he was a

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Speaker 1: child molester of the whole time. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't talk about Dennis Hastard enough anymore. Oh, first time

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Speaker 1: I'm hearing about him. Oh yeah, you didn't know about

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Speaker 1: the longest serving Republican Speaker of the House, who was

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Speaker 1: just the just a complete child molester the entire time

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Speaker 1: he was in office. But the first impression, it's so bad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was just molesting the hell out of some kids.

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Speaker 1: It was really a problem. Um. Yeah, good stuff. You

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Speaker 1: want to take a break, buddy, Yeah, let's take an

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Speaker 1: ad break, Courtney. You know who won't be the longest

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Speaker 1: serving Republican Speaker of the House and use their power

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Speaker 1: to assault children. Whoever this ad is for. That's exactly

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Speaker 1: the case, unless this is yet another one of our

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Speaker 1: ads for Dennis Haster, in which case I I do apologize.

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Speaker 1: We do not know how they keep getting in there.

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Speaker 1: We're back and we're talking about children being in cars rated.

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Speaker 1: So in the nineteen nineties, yeah, kids decide politicians decide that,

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Speaker 1: like really specifically going after kids as criminals is like

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Speaker 1: the thing to do. Um. So this is the political

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Speaker 1: situation in the US in nineteen nine when too Colorado

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Speaker 1: high school kids with an interest in Adolf Hitler walked

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Speaker 1: into Columbine High School and murdered thirteen people with firearms. Now,

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Speaker 1: there were armed police in Columbine that day, um, and

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Speaker 1: they failed to stop the rampage. But the kind of

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Speaker 1: folks who vote based solely on scary things that just happened,

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Speaker 1: did the thing that those kind of people do, and

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Speaker 1: they started voting to increase the presence of armed police

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Speaker 1: in schools. Politicians were happy to do this because given

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Speaker 1: the shocking number of civilian arms in the US and

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Speaker 1: are growing supply of angry young men, it seemed likely

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Speaker 1: that more Columbines would soon follow. The real fix this

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00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: problem would probably have involved doing something to fill the

403
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: yawning cast him at the center of our national soul,

404
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: and that wasn't about to happen, So everybody just agreed

405
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Speaker 1: to throw more men with guns and badges at the problem.

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Speaker 1: School resource officers became increasingly common in school districts around

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Speaker 1: the nation at this point, So that's good, um. And

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00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: another thing that happens in nine the President passes like

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Speaker 1: the Gun Free Schools Act or something, I forget the

410
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: exact name, but that's is like the legal justification that

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Speaker 1: starts pushing a lot of zero tolerance policies and schools

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Speaker 1: and really starts ramping up the number of s r

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Speaker 1: o s. But it's Columbine that kind of adds fuel

414
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Speaker 1: to that fire. Were you in Were you in school

415
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Speaker 1: when columb Mine happened. I was. I was like, maybe uh,

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Speaker 1: senior or early college. I was, Yeah, it was when

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Speaker 1: I was still growing up. But I mean I went

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Speaker 1: to a small rural school, so like that, I mean

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Speaker 1: it could still happen, but like that armed police presence

420
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Speaker 1: was not at my school, and I think still isn't.

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Speaker 1: We started to have cops in my schools after Columbine.

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Speaker 1: And what I remember most that was just kind of

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Speaker 1: like the attitude change was like feeling that teachers were

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Speaker 1: kind of suspecting kids of planning something. Now, Like it

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00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 1: was this very weird feeling that like, oh, now we're

426
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: all kind of like now they're searching us as we

427
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: enter the school, were all kind of suspects of wanting

428
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 1: to kill each other. That feels like it's not going

429
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: to lead anywhere. Well oh yeah I was yeah high school. Yeah,

430
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: maybe a little more suspect from the teachers for sure. Yeah.

431
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: It was weird. Um, it was not a cool time

432
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 1: to be in school. Um, so yeah, columb Mine. Now,

433
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: in the immediate wake of Columbine, there were like people

434
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: did get more worried about bullying too. Briefly, Um, there

435
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 1: was like I think just because there was this assumption

436
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: that the kids who shot up the school had been

437
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: like bullied, which wasn't really true. But like everybody got

438
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: on that too for a while. But for a practice.

439
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: On the practical level, most of the focus in preventing

440
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 1: another Columbine involved zero tolerance discipline, and the idea of

441
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 1: zero tolerance policies and schools was basically the broken windows

442
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: theory as applied to living children. Right. The broken windows

443
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: theory says that like, as soon as you have a

444
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 1: broken window, it's permission for people to engage in more

445
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: anti social behavior. So soon they'll start tagging up windows

446
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: and breaking other windows and lightning ship on fire, and

447
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: then you have, you know, the collapse of civilization. Um,

448
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: it's that as applied to students. If a kid acts

449
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: up in one way, you know, if he talks back

450
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: to a teacher, you have to punish him more than

451
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: he deserves to be punished for that, because if you don't,

452
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,719
Speaker 1: it could lead to other bad behavior like shooting up

453
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: your school. Like that that was the justification for zero

454
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: tolerance policies. Great, and it's good stuff. They weren't effective, right,

455
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 1: because there's been like a million more shootings have there

456
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: been other shootings since Colon. Yeah, I've heard of it.

457
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't read the news, Courtney. Um, I

458
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: didn't realize America still had a problem with this. I

459
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: assumed that this had been settled. Yeah, mostly solved, but

460
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: it's still a few still. It seems like we gotta

461
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: handle on it now that all of the schools are

462
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 1: closed from the play we did everybody making things a

463
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: lot harder for school shooters. Thank you COVID nineteen. Thank

464
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: you so um yeah. Uh. Now. Another thing that happened

465
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: right around the same time. It was a major reorganization

466
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: and the way that schools measured success and failure for students.

467
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: Standardized testing began to have an increased influence on teacher

468
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: pay and on school funding, This creating situation where it

469
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: was in the interest of adult administrators and teachers to

470
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: find ways to remove low performing students from their classroom.

471
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: Florida schools adopted a high stakes testing model in nineteen

472
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: and within five years their rate of out of school

473
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: suspensions had increased. In two thousand four, twenty eight thousand

474
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: Florida children were arrested at school, two thirds of them

475
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: from minor offenses that would have been dealt with noncar

476
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: serrale in the past. By two thous six, eight years

477
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: after adopting a high stakes testing policy, teacher morale had

478
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: created more than half of all Florida teachers reported thinking

479
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 1: about quitting their field. Florida's graduation rate felt a fifty

480
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: seven percent, the fourth lowest in the nation. Now. Texas

481
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: also adopted a high stakes testing program in the nineteen nineties.

482
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: Governor George W. Bush's education advisor, Sandy Kress, convinced him

483
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: that the soft bigotry of low expectations is what held

484
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: back minority students, and he felt that Texas could fix

485
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 1: this by making all schools administer the same tests statewide.

486
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: That would make it easier to determine where resources were needed.

487
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: The implementation of standardized tests was accompanied by new zero

488
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: tolerance policies to and since school funding and teacher pay

489
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: was now tied to test results, teachers you know used

490
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: those uh punishments like whenever kids would do something bad,

491
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: it was threatening that kid that teachers payment like that

492
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: the money that they would get in the money the

493
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: school would get, so they would report those kids. Suspension

494
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: rates began to soar, and nent of suspensions were from

495
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: minor infractions. By two thousand nine, there were two million

496
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 1: suspensions statewide, and the sheer number of suspended kids in

497
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: Texas led to the creation of so called super max schools,

498
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: which are basically prisons designed for children to go to

499
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: class at. And this was the kind of thing. I

500
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: grew up in Texas in this period of time, and

501
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: we everyone would talk about these schools because you all

502
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: knew somebody who had been sent there, right, who had

503
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: been like and it was always something like, yeah, they

504
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: would talk up in class, or maybe they got caught

505
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: with weed or something, but like usually it was just

506
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: like they annoyed a teacher for a couple of days

507
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 1: in a row, and then suddenly this person is like

508
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: going to a school where you have to like fucking

509
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: go through a metal detector and if you talk in

510
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: the hallways you could get arrested. Like it's this fucking

511
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: it was pretty pretty bad. Yeah, yeah, And yet like

512
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: none of the kids who go to these schools like

513
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: learn anything. They're like, like the school work. I remember,

514
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: because again we we knew some kids who would go there.

515
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: The schoolwork they would get was like you know, ship

516
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 1: that kids five or six years younger would have found

517
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: easy like it was. It was clearly that like the

518
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: kids who went to that building, the state was giving

519
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: up on and was locking them in a separate building

520
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: and saying like this is technically schoolwork. Do this until

521
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: you're old enough that we can put you in a

522
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: real prison. Yeah, and like, don't infect our test scores

523
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: in the meantime, just go yeah exactly, because they're not

524
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: fucking up the test scores of the the other schools,

525
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: which makes it look like things are going better for

526
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: the other schools. So yeah, it's not great. A lot

527
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: of the kids in these in these SUPERMANX schools drop out,

528
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: but overall it looked like Texas test scores were improving massively.

529
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: Um And that fact was trumpeted loudly during the twoth

530
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: House and election. George W. Bush called it the Texas Miracle,

531
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: and huge numbers of people, including my parents, still believe

532
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: that this was a thing that happened, that like Texas

533
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: figured it out and massively improved education via standardized testing

534
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: and you know all of these policies, the zero tolerance

535
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: policies and ship. When Governor Bush became President Bush, he

536
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: worked with famed Lady drowner, Ted Kennedy to make no

537
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: Child left Behind law nationwide. And this is what lady

538
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: drowner is. Well, he drowned that lady. He absolutely did. Yeah, yeah,

539
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: good old Ted Kennedy, the lady drowner. So, um, he

540
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: worked at President Bush. They they came down the middle.

541
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: You know. Uh, this this this man who would go

542
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,479
Speaker 1: on to commit a series of war crimes, and this

543
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: other man who had drunkenly drowned a lady in his car. Uh.

544
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: They made No Child Left Behind nationwide. Um. And the

545
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: law promised that by two thousand and fourteen, all students

546
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: in the United States would meet or exceed their states

547
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: proficient level of academic achievement. Um. They didn't hit that goal.

548
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to say, Courtney. Um, we didn't fix teaching.

549
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: That might might surprise you at the moment, but we

550
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: got a whole batch of new criminals. We do have

551
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: so many new criminals. So No Child Left Behind brought

552
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: with it zero tolerance policies. Of course, the tight teacher

553
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: pay to test scores In a lot of cases. Nationwide,

554
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: short term suspensions increased by forty one percent and long

555
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: term suspensions by a hundred and thirty five percent. Black

556
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: students were three and a half times likelier to be suspended.

557
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: By two thousand and eight, the number of school resource

558
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: officers nationwide had doubled and more than sixteen thousand students

559
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: had been arrested. After ten years of no child left behind,

560
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: graduation rates were about the same, dropout rates were about

561
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: the same, and in general, absolutely nothing had been achieved

562
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: except that a funck ton of kids had gotten suspended

563
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: and arrested. Now people were baffled by this, and they

564
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: started looking into why the Texas Miracle hadn't worked out nationwide.

565
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: It turned out that this was because the Texas Miracle

566
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: had never actually been a thing. From MSNBC quote, Texas

567
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: started to lose seventy kids a year, mostly dropping out

568
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: before they had to take the tenth grade test that

569
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: would count against the school. Almost a third of kids

570
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: in Texas who started high school never finished. Scores on

571
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: the Texas Test rose, but s a t scores for

572
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: prospective college students dropped. Researchers discovered that the Texas Test,

573
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: designed by Pierson, primarily measured test taking ability. Apologists cherry

574
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: picked National Assessment of Educational Progress scores to show progress

575
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: but overall Texas lost ground to the rest of the country,

576
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: found Dr Julian V. Hellig, an education researcher at the

577
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: University of Texas. But by then it was too late.

578
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: The Texas Miracle, mirage or not, was law of the land.

579
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: So that's fun that it actually made everything worse than

580
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: they made it. The law nationwide is fun the word

581
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: for that. No. Oh, like, was anyone surprised? A lot

582
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: of people were. Most people still don't know that the

583
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: Texas Miracle isn't a thing that happened. Oh my god. Yeah,

584
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: listeners can't see, but my jaws just been on the

585
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: floor the entire episode, just trying to pick it up.

586
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: Oh god, Yeah, it's good stuff. I love fool and good. Yeah.

587
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: You know what else is cool and good is I

588
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: Sometimes life gives you lemons. And when you get lemons,

589
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: you got a lock of shipload of kids away in

590
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: what are essentially prisons until they learn how to make

591
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: their own weapons and stab prison guards that they can

592
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: go to adult prisons and learn how to cook methamphetamines

593
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: and join the Area Nations. That's just a thing you

594
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: gotta do sometimes because clearly there are no other options

595
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: and that's fine. They can make lemonade and you can

596
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: pay them like one cent for doing it. Absolutely, and

597
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: they can make I don't know, license plates or mac books.

598
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: Why don't we have Why don't we have children making

599
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: MacBooks in prisons? That's what I want to know. Why

600
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: are we letting the Chinese have all the fun of

601
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: making mac books when we could have eleven year olds

602
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: who talked up in class doing it. That's what I

603
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: want to know. Good question. Thank you for liking my question.

604
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: So all of this stuff that we've been talking about

605
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: today kind of jelled together to create something commonly known

606
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: as the school to prison pipeline. Schools with school resource

607
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: officers have nearly five times the arrest rate as schools

608
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: without school resource officers. And again, because these schools were

609
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: getting by before they had the cops. It kind of

610
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: suggests that those arrests are things that could have been

611
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: handled without cops and arrests um most of those arrests

612
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: are students of color and students with disabilities, both of

613
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: whom are vastly disproportionately arrested by school cops. Uh. And

614
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote again from the book The End of

615
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: Policing The ost Department of Education found in a two

616
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 1: thousand eleven, two thousand and twelve survey of seventy two

617
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: thousand schools that black, Latino and special needs students were

618
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: all disproportionately subjected to criminal justice actions. While black students

619
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: represent sixteen percent of student enrollment, they represent twenty seven

620
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: percent of students referred to law enforcement and thirty one

621
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: percent of students subjected to a school related arrest. In comparison,

622
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: white students represent fifty one percent of enrollment, forty one

623
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: percent of students referred to law enforcement, and thirty nine

624
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,719
Speaker 1: percent of those arrested. Some individual districts have even starker numbers.

625
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: In Chicago, in two thousand, thirteen, two and fourteen, black

626
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: students were twenty seven times more likely to be arrested

627
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: than white students, leading to eight thousand arrests in a

628
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: two year per read Over fifty of those arrested were

629
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: under fifteen. It's good stuff. Yeah, that's depressing. It's hard,

630
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: it's it's just sad. It's just really sad. I mean,

631
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: you know, yes, yes, it is a big part of

632
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: the problem is that putting cops in schools made calling

633
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: in the school cop an option for teachers and administrators

634
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: who would have had to do the actual hard work

635
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: of like disciplining a child earlier. It's easier to just

636
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: have the kid arrested if he's pissing you off, and

637
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: it might help increase your pay, so like why the

638
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: funk not now. The argument that much of what's going

639
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,479
Speaker 1: on was the result of teachers not wanting to bother

640
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: or not knowing how to handle students with more complex

641
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: problems was bolstered by the fact that special needs children

642
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: make up more than of students referred to police, they

643
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: make up just fourteen percent of the student population. One

644
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: good example of how this looks is the two fifteen

645
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: case of a Lynchburg, Virginia, sixth grader. Eleven year old

646
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: Caleb Moon Robinson has autism and behavioral issues, and one incident,

647
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: he kicked a trash can after being scolded by a teacher.

648
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: The school s r O filed disorderly conduct charges against

649
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: the boy for this. In another incident, the s r

650
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: O body slammed the kid and handcuffed him after he

651
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 1: resisted being dragged out of the classroom for another behavioral issue.

652
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: The student was charged again with a misdemeanor disorderly conduct

653
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: and this time with felony assault on a police officer.

654
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god, they love doing that. If you struggle

655
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,959
Speaker 1: in your handcuffs, you're assaulting the cop if they beat you. Yeah,

656
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: he's fifteen, No, eleven, he's eleven. This eleven year old

657
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 1: was charged with felony assault on a police officer after

658
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 1: he was body slammed. It's good. I love it when

659
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: eleven year olds feloniously assault police officers. Happens all the time. Well,

660
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 1: it actually happens quite a lot. Yeah, not even in that.

661
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: Just didn't like the If a person grabs you and

662
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: starts like choking and body slamming you, sometimes your body,

663
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: you will resist them without you thinking about it. I

664
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: think that's self defense. Yeah, it is self defense. If

665
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: that person is a cop and you do anything but

666
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: go limp, you have assaulted the cop. Because literally, anything

667
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: you do to a cop is assaulting the cop. Because

668
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 1: cops have very very thin skin. They're tiny, tiny little people.

669
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: Defund the police, they're very soft. Yeah, I mean that's

670
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: one option that that that that's a start, you know,

671
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 1: defund the police. Uh, I don't know. I'm not gonna

672
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: I've urged enough federal crimes on other podcasts anyway. Um,

673
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: So Caleb was yeah, found guilty on all charges, although

674
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: this was thankfully reversed and new statewide protections for children

675
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: under thirteen were put in place due to the outrage

676
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: generated by Caleb's case. But it took this cop like

677
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: assaulting and then fucking charging as an adult an eleven

678
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: year old for there to be changes in Virginia as

679
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 1: a result of this, uh, which ain't great. So part

680
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: of the problem is that school resource officers don't get

681
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: meaningful training for how to deal with kids, let alone

682
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 1: special needs kids, and so they tend to treat every

683
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 1: problem the way cops treat problems with indiscriminate, blind, furious violence.

684
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 1: In August of two fifteen, a Kentucky Sheriff's deputy handcuffed

685
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: an eight year old boy and a nine year old girl,

686
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: both disabled, for disorderly behavior tied to their disabilities. Since

687
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: they were too small to handcuff properly, the officer had

688
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: to handcuff their biceps. The whole thing was caught on

689
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: tape and you can hear the cops tell the boy

690
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: you can do what we ask you to or you

691
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: can suffer the consequences. It was so I taught special

692
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: lead and my kid was, like, my kid had some

693
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: serious behavioral problems, right to the point where he had

694
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: seventies something workman's compt claims processed against him because of

695
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: all the injuries he caused people. He permanently crippled a

696
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 1: gym teacher. You know, not long before I started the job,

697
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: by predecessor, he'd broken his skull, so he was like

698
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: he was a kid that required a lot of specialized care.

699
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: And most days my job was to just get hit

700
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: in the face by this kid because the other teachers

701
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: were like older ladies who couldn't who couldn't safely be

702
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: hit in the face by a seventeen year old um.

703
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: And we had incidents were like this kid would like

704
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: smash his face and like a bus window to get attention,

705
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 1: but also he would be covered in blood and cops

706
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: would wind up being called him because it was like

707
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: happening on a bus on like a street and ship,

708
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: and the police, like I I guess thankfully at the time,

709
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: I was frustrated because like I was having to deal

710
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: with this like violent bleeding kid and the police were

711
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: just like stand back looking terrified and have no fucking

712
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: idea what to do. But reading all of this, it's like, oh,

713
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: thank god they didn't get involved. They would have shot

714
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: that boy, Oh totally, they would have put a fucking

715
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: bullet in him. Yeah. Both my parents are special ed teachers,

716
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: and my dad had like your first job where like

717
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: his his first gig was like at this middle school

718
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 1: and kids would just like throw their heads into walls

719
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: and like it was nuts. But you do have to

720
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 1: have a special I mean, my dad was like an

721
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: angel dealing with them. I can't imagine with cops. Yeah.

722
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: I certainly wasn't an angel at dealing with him because

723
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: I was too young to be doing that job. But like,

724
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: I'm glad I wasn't. I'm glad it wasn't a cop

725
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: dealing with it. Um. Yeah. So for most of the odds,

726
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 1: schools steadily increased the number of cops on campus. They

727
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: also pumped more and more weapons into the police departments

728
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: dedicated to protecting those schools. The Washington Post reports at

729
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: least a hundred and twenty school affiliated police forces in

730
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: thirty states have made use of the ten thirty three

731
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: weapons transfer program. This has gotten rather famous lately. Um,

732
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: it's the thing that let's cops get things like tanks

733
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: and grenade launchers. Um, so this is why, like the

734
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: l A School police department has a tank. Um. Yeah,

735
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: the ten thirty three programs, So that like throughout the odds,

736
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: they're just getting pumped full of military grade weaponry as

737
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: they are choke holding eleven year olds and charging them

738
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,720
Speaker 1: with assault. So militarized police have meant that militarized police

739
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,919
Speaker 1: tactics keep getting used on children. The most infamously vile

740
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: example of this may have been the two thousand three

741
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: squat raid on Goose Creek High School in South Carolina.

742
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: The goal had been defined drugs and guns. The result

743
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: was that dozens of heavily armed cops forced hundreds of

744
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: mostly black students onto the ground for no reason. Students,

745
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 1: of course, we're not warned, and many panicked and ran

746
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: when officers indistinguishable from soldiers leapt out of closets and

747
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: out from under stairwells, screaming and waving guns. Yeah yeah, yeah,

748
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: they were just like, what don't we just really funk

749
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: with these kids? Like, what don't we just have an

750
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: army come in and funk these kids? Up um and

751
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: no no drugs were found, like no contrabound was found. UM,

752
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: but huge numbers of students were traumatized. And the school administrator,

753
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 1: who coordinated the whole thing because there was a local outroar, apologized,

754
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: but he stated that quote, once police are on campus,

755
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: they are in control. UM. So honestly, the students of

756
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: Goose Creek ought to be grateful because none of them

757
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: were beaten or assaulted by crowd control weapons in a

758
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: serious way that day. Um. But this too has actually

759
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 1: become very common in other schools and in the end

760
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 1: of policing, Alex Vitality writes quote and two dozen tend.

761
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: The Southern Poverty Law Center filed a class action lawsuit

762
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 1: against the Birmingham, Alabama Schools, claiming they were systematically using

763
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: excessive force. The alleged that from two thousand, six hundred

764
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: and ninety nine students have been sprayed with a combination

765
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: pepper spray and tear gas agent called freeze plus P,

766
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: which causes extreme pain and skin irritation and can impede

767
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: breathing and vision. All of the students sprayed were African American.

768
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: One student was pregnant, many were innocent bystanders, and some

769
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: were completely non violent when sprayed. In most cases, officers

770
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 1: made no effort to treat those sprayed, and some were

771
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: held in police custody to await arraignment, wearing chemically coded

772
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,439
Speaker 1: clothing and to this. In fifteen, a federal court found

773
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: the school district guilty of civil rights violations and banned

774
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: the use of a spray. A seventeen year old high

775
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: school student in Texas was tazard by an s R

776
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: O while trying to break up a school fight. The

777
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,959
Speaker 1: student was critically injured by the resulting fall and blow

778
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: to the head and spent fifty two days in a

779
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: medically induced COMA surveillance video showed that the young man

780
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 1: was actually stepping away from the officers when he was tazard.

781
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: You can find a million stories like this, because it's

782
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: bad to have these people in schools. Oh my god,

783
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: Can we just go back to hitting the kids like

784
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ? Yeah? Man, that paddle doesn't sound so bad now,

785
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: does it. Yeah? Yeah, bring back the fucking paddle. Uh?

786
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: Or not? Maybe just not do violence to children. I

787
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't want to be an extremist in

788
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: my political beliefs. It's think it's time for an ad break,

789
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: all right, Well, enjoy our ads from Safari Land, the

790
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 1: company making all of the tear gas that's getting dumped

791
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: into American streets. Oh we're back. Oh my god, what

792
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: a nice night. It's not nighttime, it's the middle of

793
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: the day. I am real cracked out. So violence by

794
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: s r o s against children is terribly common between

795
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: two thou tend into than fifteen. At least twenty eight

796
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: U S students were severely injured by school cops, and

797
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: one was killed, fourteen year old Derek Lopez. His crime

798
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: was punching a fellow student and then running away when

799
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: the school cop told him to freeze. The s r

800
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: O chase Lopez and shot him to death in a

801
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: nearby backyard shed, claiming the boy had bull rushed him. Yeah.

802
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: Pretty cool that a fist fight at school led to

803
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: a man with a gun chasing a child. That was

804
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: a situation that needed to happen. Oh my god, And

805
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: the kid just had fists. No, of course, he was

806
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: fourteen year old boy. He was a fourteen year old

807
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: boy in school. I mean, it's one of those things

808
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: I think about all the fist fights I got into

809
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: at school. And it's a shame there wasn't a man

810
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 1: with a gun there to chase any of us. Otherwise

811
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 1: it might have ended, you know, thankfully. I don't know.

812
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: It's just bad. It's bad. This is bad. I don't

813
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: have a joke. So for all of this, Courtney, like again,

814
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: the reason all these cops are in all these schools

815
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: is because a ship like Columby and everybody getting worried

816
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: that someone's gonna murder kids at schools. For all of this,

817
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: there's not a single solitary case of a school resource

818
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: officer preventing a school shooting. The closest thing they have

819
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: is a guy who was arrested by his s r

820
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: o s after shooting two people. But he had finished

821
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: the shooting when this this the school resource officers like

822
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: got him, Like he went after his girlfriend and somebody

823
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 1: else and he he shot them and then he was done.

824
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: Uh And I guess they stopped that. Like they didn't

825
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: stop that. They never stop it. They're bad at there

826
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: that job. So, as it turns out, students in schools

827
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: that have police in them report feeling less safe than

828
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: students in similar schools without police. No evidence exists to

829
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: even suggest that the presence of school resource officers reduces

830
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: violent crime or any other kind of crime for that matter.

831
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: What they do, though, is arrest a whole funk load

832
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: of kids. More than a million children have been arrested

833
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: by school resource officers in the last twenty years. That's good. Yeah,

834
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: that's a lot of kids with criminal records getting pumped

835
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: into the system. Yeah. And of course, like a huge

836
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: amount of research shows that punishing kids in this way

837
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: reduces their odds of graduating massively. A lot of these

838
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: kids never get back to school. It increases their rods

839
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: of developing a criminal record. Uh. And that's for kids

840
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: who don't get a criminal record because of the charges

841
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: filed against them by an s R. Oh, like the

842
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: Virginia middle schooler who was charged with as salt and

843
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: battery for throwing a baby carrot at her teacher. Baby carrots,

844
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: Well it was an assault baby carrot. Yeah, the most

845
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: assault weapon ever. That carrot was trimmed down. Yeah, it

846
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: wasn't even a full carrot, didn't even have the skin

847
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 1: on it. Yeah, it's pretty pretty fun that that happened. Um,

848
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: So all of these factors combined together to create again

849
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: what's called the school to prison pipeline, which has gotten

850
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: bad enough that it's sometimes called the cradle to prison

851
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: pipeline because a lot of kids are kind of dumped

852
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: into places where this will happen to them from the

853
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 1: very beginning of their school career. Suspensions, which almost never

854
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: occurred in the nineteen seventies, have become routine. In the

855
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: two ten academic year, over five hundred schools in the

856
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: country suspended more than half of their students. By two

857
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 1: thousands six, nearly fifteen percent of Blackmail middle school students

858
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: were suspended in a given year. Now, as I mentioned

859
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: at the top of the episode, all of these suspensions

860
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: and arrests of students lead to a hell of a

861
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: lot of incarcerated kids. Too. Many of them end up

862
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: at adult facilities, and if you pay it any attention

863
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: to them the nation lately, you know why that's not

864
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: a good thing. But the unfortunate reality is that the

865
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: children's facilities specifically made for juvenile offenders aren't much better,

866
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: and sometimes they're worse. Nearly of juvenile to linquents in

867
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 1: this country are sent to private, for profit facilities. For

868
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: many kids, that means some form of boot camp, juvenile

869
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: prison or detention center. Ironically, many of these kids wind

870
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: up in the care of people who are criminals themselves.

871
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 1: And this brings me to the story of one James F. Slattery,

872
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: founder of the Correctional Services Corporation, among other businesses, geared

873
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: at making money by incarcerating kids. In twenty years, more

874
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: than forty thousand girls and boys in sixteen states went

875
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,720
Speaker 1: to facilities run by James Slattery. An expanse of Huffington

876
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: Post investigation Prisoners of Profit makes it agonizingly clear what

877
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: is a bad idea this was. Slattery got his start

878
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: owing a chain of shitty hotels in the nineteen eighties,

879
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: and he was not good at this. His buildings were

880
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: stuck with hundreds of code violations and notorious for being

881
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: vermin invested hell holes. In six two men got into

882
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: a fight at the hallway of one of his properties

883
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: and fell down a broken elevator shaft, dying on impact.

884
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 1: Several weeks later, a fire broke out and killed four

885
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: children in the same building. So Slattery and his business

886
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: partner decided that the hospitality business might not be for them,

887
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: largely because people care when your customers die horribly due

888
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: to your ill maintained facilitlities. They decided to move to

889
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: a business where no one cared about the clientele and

890
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: started selling their space to the government to act as

891
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: re entry housing for newly released federal inmates. A new company,

892
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: Smore Incorporated, was formed to oversee the business, and I'm

893
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: gonna quote from the Huffington Post now. As federal prison

894
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,760
Speaker 1: officials awarded Smore an emergency contract to operate a halfway

895
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: house in Brooklyn. Local community leaders challenged the decision, questioning

896
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: why the same people who had managed problem plagued welfare

897
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 1: hotels should be given fresh responsibility. Less than three years

898
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: after as More Lope opened La Marquis to former inmates,

899
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,439
Speaker 1: federal inspectors from the Bureau of Prisons found that parts

900
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 1: of the building were turning to ruin. Inspectors documented low paid,

901
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: untrained employees, poor building conditions from vermin, leaky plumbing to

902
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: expose electrical wires and other fire hazards, and inadequate barely

903
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: edible food. Federal prison officials were close to canceling the

904
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: contract in nine two, according to media accounts at the time,

905
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 1: but they said conditions at the facilities started to improve

906
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: after frequent inspections, and a federal lawsuit won. The Marquis employee,

907
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: Richard Moore, alleged that he had been severely beaten by

908
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: another employee at the direction of management after he reported

909
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 1: poor conditions to federal inspectors. In another federal lawsuit, for

910
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: female inmates asserted that they had been raped and assaulted

911
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: by Smore's private resident advocate, the employee who was supposed

912
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: to protect inmates by handling their grievances. So you might

913
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 1: say that, um, he wasn't good at this job. That

914
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: like that the company he made was fundamentally terrible at

915
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 1: this job. But Smore made a lot of money, and

916
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: soon soon the company had expanded its operations to Fort Worth,

917
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: where it opened a boot camp for young boys, as

918
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: well as New Jersey and Washington, where it opened immigrant

919
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 1: detention centers. The company went public, netting Slattery five point

920
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: two million dollars. The next year, a riot broke out

921
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,240
Speaker 1: in his New Jersey immigrant detention center when an organized

922
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: group of inmates assaulted guards and took over the facility.

923
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: Subsequent investigations found that, among other things, Slattery's guards constantly

924
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: sexually harassed female inmates, uh and stole regularly from other inmates.

925
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: Training was virtually non existent. Now. I n S did

926
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: not find as more for this or cancel its contract. Instead,

927
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: they allowed the company to sell their I n S

928
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: contract to the Corrections Corporation of America for six million dollars,

929
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: because fuck it. The whole disaster was enough to make

930
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: Slattery opt for a change of venue, though, and he

931
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 1: moved the company's headquarters south to Florida in nineteen six

932
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 1: and changed the company name to Correctional Services Corporation. He

933
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: decided his new focus would be incarcerating children, since that

934
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: had seemed relatively easy so far compared to locking up adults.

935
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: Florida was a great place to do this. In the

936
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, the state had started outsourcing juvenile attention to

937
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: private companies to cut costs, and in the nineteen nineties

938
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: a bunch of teenagers had killed people, leading to a

939
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: crackdown on juvenile crime and a soaring juvenile prison population.

940
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,919
Speaker 1: So that's the situation. This guy starts by running cheap

941
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: hotels for like houseless people, and he gets a bunch

942
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: of them killed, and then he starts running cheap halfway

943
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: houses for people who are getting out of prison. And

944
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: a bunch of them, you know, get raped and assaulted.

945
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: And finally he's like, you know what, the job for

946
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: me is watching after children. Oh my god, what a

947
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 1: resume this guy. And the State of Florida is like yes.

948
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 1: In Slattery One bids to make two facilities in Florida.

949
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: Both prisons were meant for boys aged fourteen to nineteen

950
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: who had been convicted as adults, but whoopsie doodles, the

951
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 1: state realized too late that it had had enough beds

952
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: for those kids, so instead, the Florida Department of Justice

953
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: filled these prisons with random delinquents who hadn't been tried

954
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: as adults and weren't meant to be put in such

955
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: restrictive settings. And a press release announcing the construction of

956
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: these new facilities, Slattery called them the future of American corrections. Now,

957
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: appropriately enough, the future of American corrections was an instant nightmare.

958
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: The first Correctional Services Corporation prison to open was the

959
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: Pohokey Youth Development Center, northwest of Miami. It started taking

960
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: inmates in early nineteen. The Huffington Post reports quote within months,

961
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,760
Speaker 1: local judges were hearing complaints about abuse of staff. Prison

962
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: like conditions and food full of maggots included. According to

963
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 1: recent interviews and state audits and court transcripts from the time,

964
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: Miami Dade County Circuit Judge Tom Peter Person drove an

965
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 1: hour and a half to Pahokey in nineteen ninety seven

966
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,919
Speaker 1: and started snapping pictures. As a juvenile judge, he thought

967
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: he was sending boys to a moderate risk program with

968
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: outdoor wilderness activities. What he found was a hardcore prison.

969
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 1: I came back with all those pictures and I raised

970
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,359
Speaker 1: hell about it, Peterson recalled in an interview. He saw

971
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 1: small twelve year olds can find along much stronger seventeen

972
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: year olds. Boys were served food he called an edible.

973
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 1: That same year, local public defenders asked another judge to

974
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: move children from Pahokey into a less punitive program. Follow

975
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,320
Speaker 1: Up reviews by state contracted auditors confirmed to the operation

976
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,919
Speaker 1: was dysfunctional. Now evidence of this dysfunction included a child

977
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: with unpre paid prison gambling debts who was beaten so

978
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: badly by three other kids that he had to have

979
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: his spleen removed. In another incidents, four staff members allowed

980
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: two boys to fight for ten minutes while they watched.

981
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: No one reported this incident. Thanks to this prison's rural location,

982
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 1: rats and spiders were common. No efforts were taken to

983
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: control pests within the prison, leading to an epidemic of

984
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 1: bites among the incarcerated children. Slattery's kid prison was found

985
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 1: to be holding children past their scheduled release dates too,

986
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 1: in order to more money out of the government. This

987
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: was literally a crime, but no one was punished. Judges did, however,

988
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: start to demand that Poky be closed. The States stopped

989
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: sending new kids in August of nineteen nine, but did

990
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: not cancel Slattery's contract. They allowed the company to withdraw

991
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 1: from its contract eight months early, thus letting it continue

992
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: to bid for contracts within the state of Florida. Now,

993
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: none of these abuse allegations, the revelations of literal crimes

994
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: harmed business at all. By nine, Correctional Services Corporation was

995
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: making two hundred and twenty three million dollars a year,

996
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 1: more than double what it had ranked in three years earlier.

997
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: Slattery used his newfound cash to buy a rival corporation,

998
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 1: Youth Services International. This put him in charge of five

999
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: new facilities in Florida, and that all worked as well

1000
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 1: as you might guess. Problems grew so bad at one

1001
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: facility named Hickey, that the Justice Department commenced an investigation.

1002
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: It revealed that staff repeatedly concealed evidence of physical assaults,

1003
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: only disclosing two thirds of such cases to the government.

1004
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 1: Lack of staff, a cost cutting measure by slattery, made

1005
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: it easier for boys to enter each other's rooms and

1006
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 1: commit all The Justice Department concluded that these conditions violated

1007
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 1: the constitutional and federal statutory rights of the youth residents. Again,

1008
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: no one was penalized. The school turned the facility over

1009
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 1: to the state, escaping any financial burden to fix it,

1010
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: and sailed onto profits elsewhere. In two thousand one, eighteen

1011
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: year old Brian and Alexander died of pneumonia while confined

1012
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 1: at a Correctional Services Corporation boot camp near Fort Worth.

1013
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: The Texas Ranges conducted an investigation into the matter, and

1014
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 1: the Huffington's Posts reporting summarizes it. Quote other inmates at

1015
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: the facility had told investigators that they knew something was

1016
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: wrong with Alexander. In early January, he had stopped eating,

1017
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: his lips turned to purple, and he shivered even while

1018
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: taking hot showers. He begged a nurse and drill instructors

1019
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: to take him to the hospital, but they told him

1020
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: he was faking it, according to the Texas Rangers report.

1021
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: As Alexander pleaded for help, one help, one drill instructor

1022
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 1: told him to go ahead and die already. According to

1023
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: the investigative report, the nurse connivate Rays, told him to

1024
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 1: stop lying about his illness. Other inmates that the facility

1025
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: saw Alexander coughing up blood into trash cans and frequently

1026
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: struggling to breathe. According to the report, a week after

1027
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 1: he began complaining, staff finally took Alexander to the hospital.

1028
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: He died there two days later. A doctor told Texas

1029
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 1: Rangers that Alexander could have survived if the staff had

1030
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: taken him to get a chest X ray when he

1031
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 1: first reported feeling sick. So that's great that they're like,

1032
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,720
Speaker 1: if you would have done literally anything, just anything. Yeah,

1033
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 1: you had weeks. You could have taken literally any action

1034
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: to save this child's life, but refused to. And that's fine.

1035
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 1: You will face no corporate penalties for this. I mean,

1036
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: actually they did a bit. In two thousand two, a

1037
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: judge found Rays guilty of negligent homicide. The Nurse and

1038
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 1: Correctional Services Corporation was found liable to thirty eight million

1039
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 1: dollars in the wrongful death suit. That same year, auditors

1040
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 1: at a Maryland facility found that employees there had forced

1041
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 1: inmates to fight on Saturdays as a way to settle arguments. Fines,

1042
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: Negative Justice Department reports, and even furious judges plagued Slatteries

1043
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 1: companies constantly, but they never stopped getting contracts. All over

1044
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: the United States. For most of the last five years,

1045
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: y s I, the company's Slattery bought oversaw about nine

1046
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: per sent to Florida's juvenile jail beds. Y s I

1047
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: was also responsible for fifteen percent of all reported cases

1048
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: of excessive force and injured youths and state jail beds.

1049
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: Forty thousand kids have been sent to Slattery's prisons in

1050
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 1: the last twenty years, and state funding has made him

1051
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: a very rich man. He's poured a lot of that

1052
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,760
Speaker 1: money back into the pockets of state officials. Slattery donated

1053
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 1: more than four hundred thousand dollars to various politicians in

1054
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: a fifteen year period, two hundred and seventy six thousand

1055
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: of which went to the Florida Republican Party. He's one

1056
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 1: of its largest donors. Now interesting, Yeah, that's cool. Good.

1057
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:34,880
Speaker 1: More than forty percent of youth offenders sent to one

1058
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: of Florida's juvenile prisons wind up arrested or convicted of

1059
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 1: another crime within a year of their release. In New

1060
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: York State, by comparison, where youth offenders are never put

1061
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: in private institutions, just twenty five percent of juvenile offenders

1062
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,320
Speaker 1: are convicted again within a year of release. It is

1063
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: hard to overstate what a disaster Slattery's facilities are on

1064
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 1: a societal level and on a human level. Children at

1065
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 1: his facilities, interviewed by The Huffington Post recalled being served

1066
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: bloody raw chicken and finding flies and i'd pre cooked meals.

1067
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: Inmates were allowed to gamble on sporting events and earn

1068
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,439
Speaker 1: the right to take other students food during the next meal.

1069
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: One inmate, Angela Phillips, were called We were kept like

1070
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 1: rats in a trap in a maze. There was no

1071
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: outlet and no stimulation, so they would just turn on

1072
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: each other and turn on staff. That's how it was

1073
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: day and day out. So that's good. That's the episode.

1074
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: That's just the situation. It's a real problem. Just super depressed. Okay, great, yeah,

1075
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: this is this is why a number of cities, including

1076
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: the one I'm in Portland, but also you know, places

1077
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: like mine, apples and stuff, are increasingly like pulling cops

1078
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: out of schools, which is how like the start of this,

1079
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 1: but clearly it goes beyond like. For one thing, why

1080
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 1: isn't the slattery guy going to get like investigated and

1081
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, thrown in a hole somewhere. He shouldn't

1082
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: be allowed to own anything. No, he shouldn't be allowed

1083
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: to own anything. It's not great, very frustrating, frustrating stuff.

1084
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: Introduced the episode, I thought we were going to be

1085
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: talking about kids in cages, like uh at the border,

1086
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: and it's just we have such an obsession with putting

1087
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: kids in cages in our entire country. Oh yeah, I

1088
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: mean yes, we have a long history of that that

1089
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: goes on well beyond any of this. Based on the

1090
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: title of the dock for the script, I thought you

1091
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: were gonna be talking about that commercial cars for kids. No, no,

1092
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 1: this actually was initially about a completely other horrible thing

1093
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: done to children. Um, I just haven't had time to

1094
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: finish writing that one. But yeah, there's a whole scandal

1095
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: where judges um locked children in prisons in exchange for

1096
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,919
Speaker 1: direct payments to themselves, um, which we're just not even

1097
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: going to get into yet. So good stuff. Everybody feeling

1098
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 1: good today. I'm just going to carry the memory of

1099
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 1: the bloodied chicken throughout the day. I feel like that

1100
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: is my fuel for the rest of the day. But

1101
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 1: disgusting image. Whoa, yeah, it's great. Well, Courtney, you want

1102
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 1: to tell the listeners where they can find you on

1103
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: the interwebs, dot com, slash backslash net, um, you can

1104
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: find me everywhere on the internet at Courtney Kosak. Check

1105
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 1: out my podcast Sophia Alexander and I my co host.

1106
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: We got happy ending massages in Tokyo right before the choir,

1107
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: so yeah, that's a good escape. I got a sad

1108
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: ending massage in Tokyo once he got a he got

1109
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 1: a phone call and found out his mom had died.

1110
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: It was really it was a bummer, god, really sad massage. Really,

1111
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: I mean I made him finish, but yeah, very sad massage.

1112
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: Christ Well, on that note, Wow, you can follow Robert

1113
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 1: for more loving stuff like that. That? I right, okay?

1114
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 1: On Twitter, you can pull us at bastards pod. You

1115
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 1: can buy our merch, including our uh what's what's the

1116
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: f d A one. I can't get it right. Every

1117
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: FDA approved to prevent all diseases, because those masks are

1118
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 1: in fact FDA approved to prevent all diseases. Um. And

1119
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: if the FDA has a problem with it, you know,

1120
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: uh what do you? You fucking cowards spend what six

1121
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year on weaponry f DA? Like, you can't,

1122
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: you can't take me down. You don't have the guns

1123
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: f d A. That's right, I'm calling your asses out.

1124
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: And on that note, this is the end of the episode.

1125
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: This is the end of the episode. Thank you, Courtney,

1126
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:30,919
Speaker 1: thank you,