WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: The Lost Dutchmans Mine 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.640 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by uncontrollable Flagelence, 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:08.680 instead is supported by the generous contributions of people like you, 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:13.080 our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com slash thinking 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:29.120 sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways. I don't know stories 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:34.360 of things we simply don't know the answer too. Hey there, 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:38.239 and welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:44.400 am Steve as always, joined by and Wolf Wolf. Yeah, 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.879 that's my new name, turning a new I want to 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:51.599 suthing a little more macho a wolf, so you can 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.040 all call me Wolf, all right, Wolf, Okay, we'll go 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.800 with that. Okay, So it's it's Steve Devon and the 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:06.280 old Wolf. No bark bark another that. Well, hey everybody, 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:10.600 this week, as always, we have a mystery. This mystery 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:14.319 was a listeners suggestion. It was suggested by Meredith, So 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:16.160 thank you Meredith. I know she said this one in 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.280 a while back. I'm gonna say Meredith was the first 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.360 of many. Oh yeah, we probably just didn't record the 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.800 rest the first come, first served kind of thing. But 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:27.080 what we're going to talk about this week is the 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:32.120 Lost Dutchman's Mind. The Lost Dutchman's mind. Crap, I misread it. 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:34.800 I thought it was the Lost Dutch Boy paid store franchise. 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:39.240 Sounds so similar. Yeah, well, that's actually a legitimate mystery. 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.640 They built this franchise and they wrote the address down 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:43.960 a piece of paper, and then somebody lost it the 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:45.800 piece of paper that is. Oh I thought they lost 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:48.560 a little boy. No, no, that's another mystery. Yeah, so 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.160 we just proved that one. Alright, Well, let's let's focus 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:56.320 on this, okay. So before we get started with the mystery, 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.880 I do want to say that there's several lost Dutchman's 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.960 minds across the US. So we are specifically talking about 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.720 the one that is believed to be in the Superstition 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:12.040 Mountains in Arizona. That's it is the big one, but 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:13.639 there are others, so I just want to make sure 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:17.680 a brief overview before we get into most of it 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:21.760 is the legend of the Lost Dutchman's Mind, which says 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.560 that there is a gold mine with an amazingly pure 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:28.320 vein of gold and it was found either by the 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:33.040 Apaches at some unknown time in history, by the Spanish 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.720 in the fifteen hundreds, or a German immigrant in the 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:41.040 eighteen hundreds. The mine is believed to be located somewhere 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.080 in the Superstition Mountains, and it's believed to be in 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.520 the vicinity of there's a peak called Weaver's Needle, and 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:51.280 that's where everybody thinks it's at. And supposedly the mine 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.400 is lost. But the funny thing is is that it 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.040 wasn't lost before gold was pulled out of it and 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:01.720 brought back to civilization, possibly along with a map, maybe not. 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.880 I don't know stories very and that's something i'll preface 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.960 this with. There are multiple versions of the story. That's 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:11.360 what makes it so fun it is. It's kind of 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:13.240 boring if you just say, I know there was a mind, 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.680 but we don't really know where it is anymore. Yeah, Yeah, 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:20.600 an episode over done. No, that's the way it's gonna go. Right. So, 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.680 since the story came out in whichever time frame it 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.080 is that it came out, whether it was with the 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:31.040 Spanish or with the German minor in the eighteen hundreds, 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.480 people have since been going out into the desert searching 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:40.640 for the mind. If they're lucky, they just lose their fortunes. 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:43.720 If they're not so lucky, they're losing their lives. Happens 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.400 it does. And part of the reason for that is 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:51.480 because people go looking for it and they aren't exactly 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.400 seasoned prospectors. They didn't know what they were doing, and 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:58.120 they weren't prepared. And so you add that in with 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.320 the weather and the country side, and it's a recipe 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.640 for disaster, especially if you go out by yourself, which 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.040 some people, which is a lot of people seem to 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:08.920 have died and anything. You go out in the wilderness 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:10.680 by yourself, by the way, you know, you're taking a 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.839 big chance, a bad idea. Yeah, it is. So let's 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.719 give a little bit of geographic info here, just what 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.680 people know where we're talking about. Superstition Mountains themselves are 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:25.640 roughly fifty miles or eighty kilometers east of Phoenix, Arizona. 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.120 The temperatures in the area swing. This is in the summers. 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.039 They swing from a low of eighty degrees to a 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.320 high of a hundred and six degrees and that is 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.400 the average in that time frame. Yeah, in the winter, 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.440 it's like also super weird. It's super cold because it's 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.320 high plains, right, yeah, and it's it's it's desert, and 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.520 deserts aren't known for being warm in the winter. Actually, 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:50.760 even in the summertime, the desert gets pretty damn cold 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:52.840 at night. Actually, I would saying, are you talking eighty 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.800 degrees at night? I'm sure I would take it to 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.400 get a lot lower than that it can. But this is, 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.440 you know, I'm this is this is the highs. So 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.880 this is a big peak July August. You know, then 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.279 there's not so much a temperate swing at that part. Okay, 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:13.359 So these are highs. Okay. So the other reason, you know, 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:15.120 as we said, it's a desert, it only gets a 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.400 couple I think, what is it, eight inches of rain 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:19.599 a year, So it's not as if you're just gonna 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.640 find pools of water laying around your canteen up with 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.720 none of that. So the whole place is it's rock, 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:34.080 it's scrub, it's valleys and bluffs, and it's just not 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:38.560 the place that anybody should be going wandering into unprepared 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.160 and most definitely not on their own. I recommend you 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:46.599 get a guide if you're gonna go, like five, do 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.680 they have rattlers up there, the ones that little babies 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:53.200 have or the snake? Yeah they do, they have. They 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.920 have snakes and probably some other creepy crawleys kind of 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:01.560 like Australia, not as bad as Australia, and Australia everything 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.120 wants to kill you. Arizona is the Australia of America. 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:08.400 Let's be probably. I don't know about that, but I'm 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.560 sure there's some other places that will take Umbridge at that. 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:14.320 So I'll let them email us. You're the most poisonous 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:18.800 state in America. We want to hear from you New Jersey. Wait, 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:22.240 that's around kind of poison. Okay. So there's there's a 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.200 misnomer in our story that I want to clear up 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.960 real quick also before we get into it, and that 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.360 is the name of the mind. We here in the 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:34.800 US were super culturally sensitive, especially in the eighteen hundreds, 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.560 and so that's where this comes from. Is the mine 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:43.080 was found by a man who was called the Dutchman, 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:48.360 but he wasn't Dutch. He was Chairman. So Deutsch. Being 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.760 as like I said, sensitive, it was we are Deutsch 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.760 Dutch potato potato, they're the same thing. So that's why 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.640 it's called that. So, as I said before, there are 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:03.039 multiple versions of this story, and there are multiple variants 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.200 of each version. So what I've decided to do here 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.440 is kind of what I've done in the past. I've 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:12.360 packed each one up into as much of a stories 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:16.560 I can without yep, without going veering down every little 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.480 side alley here. So if you're familiar with the story 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.160 and this doesn't made up exactly with what you've heard, 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:26.800 well that's because it's a variant initially the story. So 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.680 this is the earliest version of the story of the 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:33.880 Lost Dutchman's mind. It comes from the Apaches, the Indians, 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.160 American Indians who lived in the area, and they of 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:41.280 course were there before Spanish or Europeans showed up. The 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:45.160 story that they tell is about a sacred cave that 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:50.320 houses the spirits that protect the mountain. The entrance to 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.920 the cave, according to their legend, is protected by a 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:56.960 pair of rattle snakes, one is male and one is female. 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:01.800 Between those snakes are two cops, and I believe it's 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.880 shell cups if I remember right. To enter the cave, though, 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.520 you need to walk up to the cups and have 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.000 a bluestone and a white stone and you need to 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.400 put those into the cups. The or in some other 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:16.920 versions they're blue and a white feather. But you're gonna 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.920 put him into the cups. It is going to be 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.440 that the female will get the white stone and the 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.400 male will get the bluestone, and when you do that, 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.000 that will prompt the snakes to leave the entrance of 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:31.960 the cave and you can enter it. What's really interesting 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.040 is when I was listening to when I was reading this, 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.920 and then I watched UM in Search of the old 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.800 Leonard Nimoy show, which was a lot of fun. I 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.599 didn't realize he hosted that show for it just completely 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.439 evaporated from my head. But the guy was telling the story, 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:49.000 and then I was like, Okay, so this is just 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.080 kind of it is allegory. Is at the right word 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:56.400 to say? Yeah, I think it's allegory. Okay. So I 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.240 was saying, Oh, it's just an allegory whatever whatever story 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.040 with a hidden right, And then I started reading on 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:05.840 some boards about this, and people are saying that they 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.720 were interpreting this to mean that the entrance of the 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:14.559 cave was protected or covered by two actual rattlesnake stone statues, 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.600 and that the stone, the blue and the white stone 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.600 would act as a key to open it, which doesn't 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.680 mate up at all with what we know of what 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:27.040 the tribes of the American Indians did, but it was 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:32.840 an interesting idea to me. No, absolutely sure. This wasn't 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:40.239 on web slues. This was on some miners board statues 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.199 that are closed Indiana jones Es. Yeah, and then you 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:44.760 put the stones in and give them a twist and 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.839 they slide apart. You got it. That's I think that's 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:49.880 a little bit beyond a patch of technology to tell 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.800 you the truth. Well, maybe it was alien technology. I 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:57.480 love the idea. Yes, it's pretty cool. It was pretty interesting. Again, 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.600 I don't I agree. I don't think it's right, but cool, Yeah, 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.640 I think. Yeah, alright, well let me finish up just 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:05.680 with this bit of story, then we'll keep going. I 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.199 know you don't think that's right, and that's fine. I 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.480 just thought it was fun good. I got the feeling 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:14.440 from what I read and listened to about the story 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.960 from the Apache that the cave is not so much 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.600 you know, this this gold filled thing, but instead was 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.200 a place to go to commune with the spirits of 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.319 the Suspicions Mountains. Um, you know, I think it was 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.959 a thunder god. I heard it referred to and referred 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.160 to in one place, so I don't know, but it 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.640 seems like it's more of a spiritual place for them, 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.000 not a gold thing. That would make sense. I mean, 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:43.080 it's my understanding that historically Native American people's have had 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.679 more of like a reverence for the space that they're 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:51.120 in than the sort of wow, that's gold. Um, let's 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.920 take it. They didn't really. Yeah, I'm sure they would 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:56.280 have loved to have had the gold if they had 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.120 been valuable in their economy, but it really wasn't wasn't. Yeah, 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:01.600 And it would makes sense that you might look at 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:05.760 that and think, yeah, that's a special place that I'm 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.640 going to talk to somebody important in. But the value 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:10.840 is not what's in the walls. The value was in 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:15.280 the space itself released on your system. Yeah, yeah, okay, 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:19.360 well let's go on from here. We have our next Actually, 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.640 we have two versions of this story that revolve around 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:27.079 the Spanish. According yeah, of course, according to this version 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:32.440 of the story, about fifteen forty, a Spanish conquistador named 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:36.520 Francisco of Vasquez de Coronado, he came to the area 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:40.520 and he was looking for the seven Golden Cities of Cibola, 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:45.240 and they the Spanish, met the Apache and they told 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:50.240 him about the Suspicion Mountains and he immediately interpreted their 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.880 stories to mean that one of the golden cities of 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:58.480 Cibola was there, and he is his men immediately went 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:02.160 to search the area. They obviously they never found it, 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.240 but while they were in the area, they kept mysteriously 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:07.959 losing men. And that's the way you'll see it described 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:11.360 as men would just evaporator disappear. And I don't know 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.240 if really they were deserting or if they're falling off cliffs. 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:18.960 I have no idea, although as always possible, the apaches 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.839 were kidnapping him in murdering him, Yeah, that's absolutely possible. 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:28.679 Um So, so I don't know. That's where the Spanish 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:32.120 the actual fifteen forty version of the story ends, and 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:36.480 it disappears from there, but it's dovetails quite nicely in 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.520 with the second part of our story. Here, the last 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.240 telling of the story, which is probably the most fleshed 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.959 out because I think it's the most popular, pushing us 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:51.480 into the eighteen forties, there's a man named Don Miguel Peralta, 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.240 and he's the member of a prominent family, and he 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:58.760 goes out looking for the gold that de Coronado couldn't 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:04.080 find in the years earlier. He By the way, remember 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:09.079 that name, Well, I watched the wire, so yeah, not 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:13.920 not not that uh. In this story, his name is 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.360 peppered all over the place. So the story goes that 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.320 Don Miguel Perelta went out searching for the gold in 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:25.400 the Suspicion Mountains and he indeed founded and he returned 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.360 to the site that he had found the gold with 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.600 a whole host of workers and began to mine it. 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:36.119 Being that he was digging in sacred territory, the apache 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.960 were none too keen with that, and he figured, well, 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.280 it's probably time to pack up and get out of here. 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.320 But being unwilling to just leave his gold mine open 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.640 for any old schmode to just walk in and start working, 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.679 he somehow covers the entrance of the mine. And I 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:58.840 don't know how he does that, Probably a pretty good way, yeah, 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:00.880 but it makes it hard to go back can start working. 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:02.760 That's that's why I don't know how he did it. 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.600 But that doesn't really pay too much into this, because 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.840 what happens is that he loads his pack animals with 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:14.200 gold and his equipment and his men and then they 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.400 take they go to leave. But he probably shouldn't have 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.760 spent so much time oh, I don't know, packing up 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:21.600 his stuff and blowing up the entrance to the mind 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:25.360 because the Apache show up and they kill every last man. 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.760 The pack animals, however, are not killed, and they are 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:33.480 loaded with gold and they run away, and supposedly, for 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:38.000 about fifty to eighty years, people wandering in the area 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:42.920 would find the corpses of these pack animals with statchells 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.240 of gold attached to them, so they were they were 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:51.200 above find. Yeah, I my my one issue with it 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.560 is that I don't exactly know how anybody knows that 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.120 that's what the what happened to him and the men, 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.680 because yeah, they had to be survived. Or there's other 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.560 people who said they found a whole host of corpses 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.920 several miles out away from Weaver's Needle, so that must 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:13.280 have been the indication that the Apaches. I as, I 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.040 don't know why you have such a problem with this, 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.160 because what we're saying is a group of Apache Indians 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.520 came and killed a bunch of dudes who were messing 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:27.120 with their sacred site and survived that attack and left. 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.040 And I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that they 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.280 might have bragged to some people about it. And that's 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.440 how we got this story, was that they said, yeah, 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.560 that guy that was digging in there, we killed them all, 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.000 because that's what happens to people. So you're saying the Apache, 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.000 we're spreading the story that they had. Okay, Okay, I 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.680 just making sure I understand who when you said that guy. Yes. 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:48.520 So for me, it's like, there are a bunch of 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.600 there are a bunch of people who left that scene alive. 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.480 And it wouldn't be so crazy to me to say, 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.440 especially if they were trying to disencourage what's the discourage, 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.560 thank you discourage people from going out there and searching 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.720 for it anymore? They would say, yeah, you don't happened 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.040 to Laska who did that? We killed him at all 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.880 of his men, We killed them all. And there is 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.920 an addition to this story which I initially hadn't included, 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.240 which is that they're supposedly so there was a doctor 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:19.520 who was friendly to the APACHE and helped them, and 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.800 so what they did one day was they said, we're 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.520 going to pay you back, and we know what, old 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.520 viable valuable can't say the word valuable all of a sudden, 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.280 but they blindfold him, put him on a horse, take 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.440 him somewhere and he picks up as much gold as 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.840 he can off the ground from there. So I don't know, 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.160 maybe maybe you're right, maybe there is that's that's how 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.680 we spread from there. I don't know. I'm always just 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.520 always questioned when it's and every man was killed, you 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.800 know the story. Yeah, but again it's like not literally 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.400 not everyone was killed, right, just just all of the 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:55.120 workers who were digging the minds were killed. There were 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.080 a bunch of people who did the killing. And actually 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.400 the workers are probably slated to get killed any because 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.280 they knew the where the mind was possible. Yeah. Oh, 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:04.920 and by the way, that's the one thing I was 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:07.520 going to say, is that story about the guys who 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.280 were found away from Weaver's Needle that people said must 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.680 have been the killing ground. That's that's actually it's called 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:18.199 Master Grounds. It's actually a known site, so you can 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:19.800 find it on the map. And I was all over 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.280 Google Earth looking at this stuff. No, no, I gotta 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.280 be honest with you. On Google Earth. This whole place 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:29.560 is really not that fun to look at. It's brown, 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.119 a little bit of scrubby green and valleys and ravines, 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.600 but it's a known site as in a known place 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.760 where there was known historical site where bodies were found, Yes, 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:44.240 where bodies were found. Not, there's there's verse. There's accounts 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.119 that say that some gold was collected at that site, 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:52.640 but I I didn't dig too deep in if that 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.520 was historically true or not. You know, this was one 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.040 of those things. It's just it's in that that slide 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:00.919 of so many bits of the story that you can 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.680 only run down so many. Okay, so lastly, let's move 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.600 on to our most popular version of the story, which 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:12.120 is the Dutchman himself. Yeah, so our friend the Dutchman 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.119 was an actual guy. We've historically know who he is. 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:19.280 His name was I'm gonna say it's Jacob Waltz, but 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:21.800 it could be Yakub. I'm not sure which it's gonna be, 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:23.680 but I'm just gonna refer to him as Waltz because 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.440 that's safe. He was born in Germany in the early 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.560 eighteen hundreds. He came to the America's or came to 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:36.000 the US in eighty five, and he made his way 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:40.040 in kind of this zig zaggy route south from New York. 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.000 He went through North Carolina and then he you know, 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:47.399 came across towards Texas, always chasing gold. He was always 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.879 looking for the next place, because you gotta remember, there 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.199 was a lot of boom towns at this this time 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:54.919 in history, and people were mining things all over and 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.720 they died out pretty quickly, they did. They would die 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:00.399 out super fast. So he was chasing that all the time. 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:06.520 And he eventually ended up in Arizona around Phoenix, and 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.760 he ended up living out his years in that area. 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.560 He was working his own minds there. And I don't 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.280 we all have that that mountain man minor idea in 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:19.439 your head, where the guy's up in the hills in 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:21.880 a hole in the hills, and then he comes out 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:23.800 once in a great while to go to town and 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.119 get his supplies, and that's all you ever see them. 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.320 And while it's true that he would spend time at 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.240 his own minds, he couldn't make a living doing that 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.880 because he never had a really any kind of profitable claims. 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:38.240 So he would go do work for other people. He 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.639 would work in town. I mean, it was not uncommon 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:44.920 to to do that. A lot of these prospectors had 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.680 to do that to be able to feed themselves. There 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.639 wasn't actually, you know, all that many rich vines to 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.399 be had at the things aren't just still did his 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.720 day aren't very common. I think of it like a 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.000 deadwood sort of situation. Do you guys ever watch? Yeah, 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:05.080 and how the prospectors were more for higher than anything 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.679 else and would be you would go work for the 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.480 rich people who came into town thinking that their claimed 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:11.880 that they had just bought was going to be worth 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.439 a lot of money. And you know, that's kind of 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:17.760 what I picture prospecting really like, not you know, down 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:23.080 in the mind pulling gold out. I don't know pretty much. Well, 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:24.680 there you go two ways to look at it. But yeah, 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.320 that's exactly right. They didn't do it full time. So 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:29.840 we we reach a little bit of a split in 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:34.160 our story here with Mr Waltz. From here, there are 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:38.880 variants of the story that he um so he met 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:43.320 a fellow German by the name of Jacob Wiser who 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:47.200 had been in the area as well. And there's some 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:49.880 version of the story, like I said, though, that have him. 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.240 There's versions that don't. So we're just going to kind 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:54.760 of run on. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't exist. 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:59.879 But they showed up in the Phoenix area in seventy 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:04.800 and suddenly had a bunch of gold and drank on 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:08.960 it for days before they packed up and headed back 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:12.200 out into the mountains. And according to the legend the story, 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.000 Wiser did this for twenty years. He would show up 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:17.280 with gold and you know, live high on the hog 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:18.800 for a while, and then he'd head back out in 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:22.439 the hills. And there are variations that say how he 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.480 found the gold. So this is some of the difficulty 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:29.080 with the story. Some people say that, uh, he accidentally 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.040 stumbled onto one of those piles of gold that was 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:35.280 attached to a dead pack animal. That would be reasonable 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.280 and easy. There are others that say that he or 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.920 he and his heat and or his partner killed two 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.560 Mexican miners who they took to be apache and then 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:48.960 after they had killed and realized they were mining the area, 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:53.080 and then realized they had a valuable mind. Or there 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:57.879 are the versions that say that these two were given 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.280 a map by a Mexican don whose life they saved. 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.119 And let's flesh that out just a little bit. The 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:08.359 Mexican don, because it it turns out it was a 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:13.240 man who was Don Miguel Peralta, Peralta that guy again again, 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:16.879 and he was according to this he's a descendant of 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:18.920 the man who had found the mind the first time, 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.639 and the Dutchman saved him from certain death in a 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:26.320 knife fight, certain death, and as a reward he let 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:28.080 him look at a map he had of the mind, 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:31.280 and then eventually he took him and if his partner 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:36.760 Wiser existed out there, and supposedly they started working it, 0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:39.800 and eventually he was bought out. And then after a 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:43.480 while suddenly the partner stop stopped showing up, and people 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:47.080 can't decide if he just died of natural causes, if 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:53.760 the Apache killed him, or if Wise killed him, Waltz Wise, 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:59.000 I don't know who very similar or if Waltz had 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:02.720 killed him. So he kind of disappears at that point, 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:07.040 Walts himself dies, but not before he meets a woman 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:11.400 named Juliet Thomas. And it's really funny when you read 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:14.080