Speaker 1: It's twelve thirty two am in the Ebel of Los
Speaker 1: Angeles and you're listening to Nightcall. Hello, and welcome back
Speaker 1: to Night Call, a call in show for our dystopian reality.
Speaker 1: I am Test Lynch in Los Angeles and with me
Speaker 1: are Emily Osida and Molly Lambert. Guys, welcome back. It
Speaker 1: is still Plastic Surgery April. So today we will be
Speaker 1: talking about the cosmetic surgery black comedy Death Becomes Her
Speaker 1: with special guest Jamie Loftus and Caitlin Durante from the
Speaker 1: Bechdel Cast, as well as taking some questions from listeners.
Speaker 1: Can't wait, it's a great conversation. Spoiler, we already had it.
Speaker 1: Everything's topsy turvy. How can everybody's classic Surgery April going
Speaker 1: pretty good? I know it's not Spring break March anymore,
Speaker 1: but did anyone read the story about how Gwyneth Paltrow
Speaker 1: got fired from her first job a bit a toy
Speaker 1: store because she went on spring break? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: do tell It's just amazing because there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: magazines coming out that were finished before COVID happened, so
Speaker 1: they all have a disclaimer. That's like this story was
Speaker 1: conducted before the pandemic. But they just like for press
Speaker 1: tours that aren't happening anymore, like Gal Gado Lady Gaga.
Speaker 1: So there's a Gwyneth Paltrow one that's the header is
Speaker 1: Gwyneth Paltrow accepts your apology. Oh my god. Anyway, it's
Speaker 1: super on brand, including that she was like, well, I
Speaker 1: have to go on spring break. I mean talking about
Speaker 1: like a rich person he has a job, like and
Speaker 1: she talked about how she could get into the expensive
Speaker 1: bars because she was tall, but not the like college
Speaker 1: bars because she was too she was too upscale. They
Speaker 1: just didn't think she could hang. Oh god, I think
Speaker 1: maybe because the fancy places don't care if teenagers come in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we're going to take a bunch of calls. We
Speaker 1: actually have gotten a lot of night calls and emails
Speaker 1: from from y'all so far, so let's keep them coming. Yeah,
Speaker 1: keep them coming. We love them. So perhaps you should
Speaker 1: take this first call from a listener about See Me
Speaker 1: and Hayes. Hi. This is Emily Um. I listened to
Speaker 1: your podcast about classic surgery and immediately I'm fastened by
Speaker 1: it too, and immediately see Me in Hayes came to mind,
Speaker 1: there are those twin DJ girls that hang out with
Speaker 1: all the Kardashian girls and the Calabasa's crew, and um,
Speaker 1: they basically changed their entire appearance. They're super wealthy, and
Speaker 1: I think their parents paid for them to get a
Speaker 1: new face when they were like sixteen. It's pretty gnarly
Speaker 1: if you if you be cool there before see Me
Speaker 1: and Hayes before old floored. Okay, so I had never
Speaker 1: heard of See Me and Hayes before they said, you guys.
Speaker 1: I had because I follow all those seleb plastic surgery blogs,
Speaker 1: which also cover influencers micro celebs, so I only knew
Speaker 1: about them from that. But why don't we explain who
Speaker 1: they are? Why don't you explain who they are? You're
Speaker 1: you're the see me any expert over it? They're twins
Speaker 1: and they got matching plastic surgery and apparently, and they
Speaker 1: used to be like sort of cute. Nicole Kidman asked, uh, beauties,
Speaker 1: and now they look like everybody else but also Dakota Johnson,
Speaker 1: I think. But they had like big, frizzy red hair
Speaker 1: like yours, truly, and now they have like sleek brown hair.
Speaker 1: But they also just have sort of different faces. Were
Speaker 1: a lot of highlighter they. I guess the reason there's
Speaker 1: so many before photos of them is they're rich and
Speaker 1: their mom took them to art auctions or something, and
Speaker 1: that's they're also before photos are from they're also DJs.
Speaker 1: I should point this out. I don't think that that's
Speaker 1: that's not why they're rich, but they are DJs. UM,
Speaker 1: So there are lots of pictures of them kind of
Speaker 1: like just sitting or like standing or posing by their
Speaker 1: DJ booths at like scenes, story parties. Um, since they've
Speaker 1: had a bunch of plastic surgery, I preferred them before
Speaker 1: f y I. They are twin fluencers. Twin fluencers. They great,
Speaker 1: they have a great they had a great look earlier,
Speaker 1: I thought, Um, so other twin fluencers that I think
Speaker 1: of when this idea comes up, or obviously the Olsen twins,
Speaker 1: but also the Claremont twins who were on Bad Girls
Speaker 1: Club and then Test and I once saw them doing
Speaker 1: a photo shoot off Melrose. When I forgot about that
Speaker 1: because I like fanned, I've freaked out, you freaked out.
Speaker 1: I had no idea. I was like, he's just obsessed
Speaker 1: with like she sees twins. It's notable to her. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: they're they're special. They are famous on the internet. Um
Speaker 1: and also yeah, famous for being these twins who sort
Speaker 1: of got matching plastic surgery to each other. That's just
Speaker 1: the weirdest thing. I guess you kind of have to.
Speaker 1: He's very obvious. What's what you've done like this to
Speaker 1: be in a pact with somebody. This is a common
Speaker 1: thing and also weird because I am very addicted recently
Speaker 1: to watching ninety Day Fiance Pillow Talk episodes, um, which
Speaker 1: I love so much. But there there's a twin on
Speaker 1: ninety Day Fiance, and she and her her sister have
Speaker 1: like different, slightly different plastic surgery, Like they've both done
Speaker 1: a lot, but it's different, and it's so transfixing because
Speaker 1: you're like, she she opted not to do that, and
Speaker 1: like she decided to do that, and you wonder like
Speaker 1: did they get the plastic surgery? And then the next
Speaker 1: you know, they'll your sister or whatever. We'll see her
Speaker 1: sister and be like, oh, I'm not getting that done.
Speaker 1: It looks terrible on her. I'll do something else. It's
Speaker 1: just such a like psychological horror movie playing out before
Speaker 1: your eyes. A twin is so weird. I imagine just
Speaker 1: for there to be another person who looks like you.
Speaker 1: This isn't plastic surgery. But I don't know. If you
Speaker 1: guys have watched the Whitmer Thomas special on HBO, I
Speaker 1: really recommend it. It's super good. Uh. It's like a
Speaker 1: half stand up show, half documentary about his life involving
Speaker 1: reconciling with his aunt he's estranged from, who is his
Speaker 1: his dead mom's twin sister, and his dead mom and
Speaker 1: his aunt had a band together, a hair metal band
Speaker 1: in Florida called sin Twister, and there's footage of it
Speaker 1: in the show. But it's also just this moment where
Speaker 1: he's like, I have to go see my aunt, who
Speaker 1: also like looks just like my mom. It's got to
Speaker 1: be so weird. I would never have even thought of
Speaker 1: something like that. It's a really good it's it's really good.
Speaker 1: It's not even just a stand up special. It's just
Speaker 1: like a really good thing, and I recommend it. Check
Speaker 1: it out because like weirdly, like being a twin, like
Speaker 1: being an identical twin, feels like a much more uncanny
Speaker 1: thing than you know, I mean, like celeb face, which
Speaker 1: we mentioned on last week's episode often has these things.
Speaker 1: Or it's just like, look at these people who basically
Speaker 1: look the same. Now, like everybody's gotten this matching face,
Speaker 1: and like, what is having even having a sibling. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna say, for all my only children co host,
Speaker 1: uh huh, it is weird to be like, oh, here's
Speaker 1: a different blend of my parents faces. Yeah you know. Um.
Speaker 1: But also, people thought my brother and I were twins
Speaker 1: a lot when we were kids because we both stingers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you just have like the exact same coloring as each other.
Speaker 1: Like my kids too, they have the exact same color
Speaker 1: hair and like the same complexion, and they I mean,
Speaker 1: you can tell that they're related. They don't look like twins. Um,
Speaker 1: But I always wonder what it would be like to
Speaker 1: have like a sibling who looked a lot like me.
Speaker 1: I would hate it, hate it. There can only be one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a nerving But I do think if
Speaker 1: I was going to get work done, I would want
Speaker 1: to get it done with my twin in this very hypothetical,
Speaker 1: this double hYP hypothetical situation. What are your guys feelings
Speaker 1: about the Olsen twins. I mean, I know that they
Speaker 1: obviously have gotten stuff done, like work done, if you're
Speaker 1: talking about the works side of it. But like, I
Speaker 1: don't think that they've gone to the weird place with
Speaker 1: it yet, Like they still basically look recognizable to me.
Speaker 1: I I respect their privacy. That's that's what I'll saying.
Speaker 1: They can do whatever they want. I kind of respect
Speaker 1: that they've opted out of being like tabloid people. Well,
Speaker 1: I feel like it must also be so weird to
Speaker 1: be so famous in a brand that your face is
Speaker 1: literally on products, you know, as a child, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I could see also just as a psychological device
Speaker 1: wanting to distance yourself from the way you looked as
Speaker 1: an eight year old, especially if you're a person who
Speaker 1: just looks like you always look like you do. However, Ever,
Speaker 1: since somebody pointed out that they probably allegedly allegedly could
Speaker 1: have had bookle fat removal, which is the thing I
Speaker 1: just learned about, which is where they like suck fat
Speaker 1: out of your cheeks to give you, give you a cheekbone,
Speaker 1: give you like a high fashion cheekbone. You don't think
Speaker 1: that's just like a diet and smoking ten thousand cigarettes?
Speaker 1: Smoking face, Yeah, it's smoking face more than anything else.
Speaker 1: I think the boocle fat removal is like very popular
Speaker 1: among Asian people because like Asian people tend to have
Speaker 1: a round your face and tend to have more They're
Speaker 1: speaking for myself and so, but like speaking for the
Speaker 1: whole round face crew, you're on the pot. Don't you
Speaker 1: think that that's like a good thing to have a
Speaker 1: round e face makes you look younger? Yes? Yeah, um yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's again like totally depends on what you're
Speaker 1: going for. But I do think in their cases, they're
Speaker 1: like there's such obvious chain smokers, and like, I mean
Speaker 1: that's the one documented thing you can say for sure.
Speaker 1: And I think that that kind of sunk in cheekbone
Speaker 1: look as like both being skinny and and the smoking thing,
Speaker 1: I think that really contributes. But I kind of love
Speaker 1: them for not giving a ship about like what anyone
Speaker 1: thinks of them anymore. I love that. I love that
Speaker 1: they smoke millions of cigarettes and like clear glower at
Speaker 1: anyone who's, like, you know, taking a picture of them.
Speaker 1: I think they totally earned that, right. Yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: I both never had any affection for them as a
Speaker 1: brand because I feel like we were slightly too old
Speaker 1: to get like the Mary Kayton Ashley videos. You know,
Speaker 1: I knew them from a full house as one person
Speaker 1: Michelle Tanner. But I think any child actors who like
Speaker 1: come out of the child acting conveyor belt and decide
Speaker 1: to never do anything again, that's fine with me. Yeah. Well, also,
Speaker 1: like it's such a choice for them to you know,
Speaker 1: continue to have careers that are semi public facing, but
Speaker 1: to really do it in an intentional way where it's
Speaker 1: like also, you know, like the row is so expensive,
Speaker 1: like nobody like it's not like Juicy couture or something
Speaker 1: where like influencers can afford it, our kids in the
Speaker 1: suburbs can afford it. It's like so far removed from
Speaker 1: just like what the average person comes in contact with
Speaker 1: that it's sort of like opting out of being a
Speaker 1: household name in a way and really like setting yourself like.
Speaker 1: But it's also it made them a household name in Vogue,
Speaker 1: which was also a very weird move to me, but
Speaker 1: I understand it. I guess they're just like, we're rich people,
Speaker 1: let's have a fashion line. Well, if you're a Vogue fixture,
Speaker 1: I think you probably get treated better than if you're
Speaker 1: like a People fixture or last Weekly fixture. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's all funked up and bad. But like I think,
Speaker 1: if if if I had to choose, if I was
Speaker 1: in their position, I would rather be the kind of
Speaker 1: first news like you know, just you know, coddled by
Speaker 1: Vogue then whatever. I also think that if you're a
Speaker 1: Vogue kind of celebrity, you actually ironically get more privacy
Speaker 1: than if you're you know, because when you're like mid level,
Speaker 1: you have to there's like a symbiotic relationship, whereas when
Speaker 1: you ascend to the like fancy rich person level of celebrity,
Speaker 1: you can just shut everybody out. I interviewed hot jug
Speaker 1: head uh, who's a twin. Cole Sprouse and Dylan Sprouse
Speaker 1: were like the boy Olsen twins, and they also did
Speaker 1: a smart kind of like like Cole Sprouse is a
Speaker 1: fashion photographer, you know, so he's totally on the Vogue thing.
Speaker 1: And then Dylan Sprouse started a metery in Brooklyn where
Speaker 1: he makes mead. Isn't They're like, don't you have to
Speaker 1: be like sixty years old at least to make meat.
Speaker 1: That's the whole thing is like I'm bringing he like
Speaker 1: dates a supermodel and it's like I'm I'm bringing back
Speaker 1: the ancient art of mead means hilarious. Well, Um, speaking
Speaker 1: of choosing what kind of fancy are going to be,
Speaker 1: let's take a night email. Um. This night email comes
Speaker 1: to us from Patrick, who writes a comment Emily that's
Speaker 1: me made on this week's pod about quarantine being a
Speaker 1: great time to have plastic surgery procedures done. Reminded me
Speaker 1: of this story from a few weeks ago in the
Speaker 1: Houston Chronicle about how Houston's wealthy are handling social distancing.
Speaker 1: Topics covered include expanded use of private jets, hiring newly
Speaker 1: available high profile chefs for private dinners with friends, and
Speaker 1: opting for plastic surgery. As the article says, social distancing is,
Speaker 1: after all, the perfect opportunity to recover inconspicuously. This article
Speaker 1: is disturbing for a lot of reasons, and I'm still
Speaker 1: surprised it didn't go viral so those of us fortunate
Speaker 1: enough to stay at home could collectively mock it. It
Speaker 1: was originally published on March eighteen, so I imagine that
Speaker 1: part of the reason was that we didn't yet know
Speaker 1: how bad the situation was going to get, especially for
Speaker 1: the most vulnerable. I also think it doesn't help it.
Speaker 1: He's doesn't exactly have a ton of writer types with
Speaker 1: big national social media reaches with which to share something
Speaker 1: like this. Maybe y'all can start something retroactively. So this
Speaker 1: is about the real Housewives of Houston. Yeah, allow me
Speaker 1: to say, we'll talk about Death Becomes Her later and
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills plastic surgery culture, but Man, Texas plastic surgery culture,
Speaker 1: that's scarious to me. So I have to say that
Speaker 1: UM as not a fan of plastic surgery. Even despite this,
Speaker 1: I have had a lot of conversations with people who's
Speaker 1: um like parents and and older sisters and people who
Speaker 1: are a little bit older have traveled to the South
Speaker 1: specifically because they claim the plastic surgery looks better and
Speaker 1: more natural than Los Angeles plastic surgery and New York
Speaker 1: plastic surgery. Yes, and I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, just being in the South,
Speaker 1: you have more humidity, you know, I'm just like, you're
Speaker 1: just gonna look better, or if you live in a
Speaker 1: place like Houston. Um, but yeah, it's I think that
Speaker 1: they have like a slightly different aesthetic and maybe because
Speaker 1: we're so used to the l a plastic surgery phase
Speaker 1: or the New York plastic surgery phase. It's harder to
Speaker 1: identify right off the bat unless it's something that's so
Speaker 1: that would have been so exaggerated anyway. I actually think
Speaker 1: if I had to say as a as A as
Speaker 1: a regular user of real self, I would say that
Speaker 1: New York has the most natural work on the whole.
Speaker 1: Really wants to go to New York right now. N
Speaker 1: I thought Korea was the the international capital of of
Speaker 1: like subtle plastic surgery. I would say that's the international capital,
Speaker 1: but let's talk about the national capitals. Right Growing up
Speaker 1: in New York, I saw a lot of really terrible
Speaker 1: plastic surgery. But that was a long time ago, so
Speaker 1: that also could have been that. I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've seen so many places where it's like like in
Speaker 1: places in New York, where it's like you can opt
Speaker 1: for different like lips. For example, there's like the New
Speaker 1: York lip versus the l A lip, and the l
Speaker 1: A lip is the one that looks insane like the
Speaker 1: l A lip is the is the Simpsons lip, where
Speaker 1: it's a large upper lip. US might respect the l
Speaker 1: A lip for just you know, putting it out there.
Speaker 1: But again, these are choices. These are choices. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: think I would. I mean, I I don't know. I
Speaker 1: watched a little bit of what they had a short
Speaker 1: lift Dallas Housewise, did they not? Oh it's still going.
Speaker 1: The one who was like the incredible villain just left
Speaker 1: because she was very racist on the last season and
Speaker 1: she like left to save her pride. The Dallas Housewives
Speaker 1: is incredible. They all get all the stuff done for sure.
Speaker 1: That's where I learned the phrase mommy makeover. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta know about a mommy makeover? Um, like what
Speaker 1: like your you get your hair done? Well. The one
Speaker 1: thing that kind of jumped out to me about this article,
Speaker 1: it was the private jet thing, because there was this
Speaker 1: story that came out recently about um, I believe it
Speaker 1: was Goldman's Sacks purchasing a private jet or multiple private
Speaker 1: jets like in the middle of this, like as recently
Speaker 1: as like a week or two ago, And that was
Speaker 1: very and I was thinking, I was like, how how tacky. Obviously,
Speaker 1: like like somebody was going to find out about this,
Speaker 1: like the shamelessness with which you would do this, But
Speaker 1: I'm sure that somebody justified it to themselves like, oh no,
Speaker 1: this is how we're going to continue to be productive
Speaker 1: and do social distancing. We just have to like fly private,
Speaker 1: which is just so like like completely you know, at
Speaker 1: that point you're you're in another stratosphere of toxic wealth.
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, I fully believe that some people are
Speaker 1: are like forcing people to stay on at their mansions,
Speaker 1: uh for domestic labor. But I also there's an Only
Speaker 1: Times article about people firing their whole staff, um, which
Speaker 1: was also obviously super fucked up. Well, the whole like
Speaker 1: staff of the chateau got fired. Yeah, and now all
Speaker 1: these things where people get fired and then they're like,
Speaker 1: here's a go fund me if you want to help.
Speaker 1: It's like a person who fired them should not be
Speaker 1: pushing a go fund me now, it feels I mean,
Speaker 1: the thing that's kind of crazy to me is that like,
Speaker 1: if you're a wealthy person, especially living in Houston or
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle of the country where you know
Speaker 1: there's generally more space than a more classically urban stuttying
Speaker 1: like in New York or something, uh like, you're good.
Speaker 1: You're good, Like you don't need you're a low risk
Speaker 1: I feel like, but but people taking all these extravagant
Speaker 1: measures to to stay socially distance. I would say also,
Speaker 1: the Dallas Housewives are the most stufford wives of any
Speaker 1: of the real housewives. They are. It's different than the
Speaker 1: other franchises because, like in all the other franchises, it's
Speaker 1: like they want to be married, but they also want
Speaker 1: to have careers, And on Dallas, it's like a lot
Speaker 1: of their husbands don't want them to have careers, you know,
Speaker 1: just openly. So they were much more Betty drapery. And
Speaker 1: in that sense, the sort of constant self care feels
Speaker 1: like this other kind of sad, like got to fill
Speaker 1: my days with just buffing myself to a sume because
Speaker 1: that's their job is to look look good for your husband.
Speaker 1: That's why it's surprising to me that that it's considered
Speaker 1: a better place to get work done, because in that
Speaker 1: way it feels more dated like that, yeah, well the
Speaker 1: whole thing feels Yeah, it also feels like eighties, like
Speaker 1: a very eighties kind of wealth. This was This was
Speaker 1: described as like the aesthetic. I mean, I think I'm
Speaker 1: sure cost also comes into play. Um, even with travel,
Speaker 1: It's probably depending on what you have want to have done,
Speaker 1: like you can probably get a better deal. Um, but
Speaker 1: I think it's it's just you know, the idea of
Speaker 1: like a different aesthetic and something that's not as common
Speaker 1: where you are. You can market it to people in
Speaker 1: those other cities by being like, oh, they're doing something
Speaker 1: different over there that you can't get here, or just
Speaker 1: like you know that they have like a lighter touch
Speaker 1: or something. Because it's true that like regionally, there are
Speaker 1: trends that you probably notice if you're like back when
Speaker 1: we used to be out and about as opposed to
Speaker 1: just looking at the grid of the screen. I remember
Speaker 1: when the Brazilian butt lift first became a thing. That
Speaker 1: was the story was that it was like rich people
Speaker 1: flying to South America to get these procedures that are
Speaker 1: like state of the art, you know, just got invented.
Speaker 1: So I also think what you see in big cities
Speaker 1: is like the cumulative effect of many generations of plastic surgery. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the people that have the sort of most messed with faces.
Speaker 1: You can tell that. It's like because because it is like,
Speaker 1: as we'll talk about on death becomes her becomes about maintenance. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you just broke my brain because I had now ever
Speaker 1: really thought about what it would feel like to sit
Speaker 1: on butt injections, And then I started trying to imagine it,
Speaker 1: and now I've lost my bones. I can't feel so
Speaker 1: cushion that never deflates. Do you think that your nerves?
Speaker 1: I mean, like can you even feel? Like? How do
Speaker 1: your nerves react to something like that? I wish I
Speaker 1: never thought of it. I am the most you know, I,
Speaker 1: as we've said on this podcast, like I have a
Speaker 1: pretty okay attitude about the stuff, but the butt stuff
Speaker 1: really squeems me out, like I, yeah, why would it's
Speaker 1: why more than breast because you sit on it? You
Speaker 1: to me, it's the same thing like the idea you
Speaker 1: don't sit on your breasts, do you know? But but
Speaker 1: it's the same idea of like putting something on that
Speaker 1: then you're like you're training nerves sensation for about foods.
Speaker 1: Don't don't don't bother me as much. And I guess
Speaker 1: maybe because it's more normalized even now, h but yeah,
Speaker 1: sitting on or but it's just I don't know, like
Speaker 1: that that feels very uncomfortable to me. Just imagine your
Speaker 1: butt falling asleep. Okay, okay, now I'm ready to get
Speaker 1: my left What if it felt like lumpy or strange,
Speaker 1: like I think with with breast implants. I actually did
Speaker 1: for a while get hung up on the idea of like,
Speaker 1: can you not sleep on your stomach because you're like smushing,
Speaker 1: you know, just feel so uncomfortable definitely when you're healing,
Speaker 1: but then afterwards does it just feel bad? But then
Speaker 1: I was like, man, I sit all the time, I'm
Speaker 1: never not sitting. What if it was super uncomfortable? But
Speaker 1: I just like I didn't know, and then I cut
Speaker 1: the surgery. Yeah, what if it made it more comfortable
Speaker 1: and it was like you were sitting in the luxurious
Speaker 1: do you think? I mean, I have considered that as
Speaker 1: somebody with very little going for me down there, like, great,
Speaker 1: let's open it up. If you know what it feels,
Speaker 1: if you've had butt implants or know someone who does,
Speaker 1: how does it feel it on implants? I'm so curious
Speaker 1: to four oh four six night night called podcast at
Speaker 1: gmail dot complex makes you as anonymous as you wish
Speaker 1: to be. We're very curious, though. You can just email
Speaker 1: me directly and tell me, because I I now can't
Speaker 1: let go of this thought. But yeah, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's to me. It's the same as any other procedure.
Speaker 1: I feel like people single out the butt injections is
Speaker 1: going too far. But it's like, to me that makes
Speaker 1: the most sense, like who doesn't want to have like
Speaker 1: a big nice But you know it's not it's not
Speaker 1: about like is it worth it or not. I for
Speaker 1: our newsletter this month, I wrote about empty nose syndrome,
Speaker 1: you know, which is when you have your when you
Speaker 1: you can either have it's like your terminates in your
Speaker 1: nose removed because you have horrible congestion, or you can
Speaker 1: have like a deviated septum fixed, and you just get
Speaker 1: this awful side effect, which is that it feels you're
Speaker 1: you feel like you're suffocating. Or then on Reddit, on
Speaker 1: a message board of people who have this or somewhere
Speaker 1: like that, someone said, it just feels like rushing cold
Speaker 1: wind in there, like there's nothing in there, and I
Speaker 1: it freaked me out so much that it's so it's
Speaker 1: not really about like is the achieved result worth the procedure,
Speaker 1: But it's like what unforeseen side effects happened because of
Speaker 1: the procedure that make it so physically uncomfortable to live
Speaker 1: with what you've done, even if from the outside it's
Speaker 1: you can't tell that there's any discomfort at all. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say also nineties reality TV and recently, more recently
Speaker 1: vander Pump Rules. There's a lot of reality shows that
Speaker 1: involve plastic surgery where they do show you somebody and
Speaker 1: just like absolute hell during the recovery. I think the
Speaker 1: recovery for the butt lift is one of the long
Speaker 1: longest and gnarliest. Um, but facelift too, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: face lift where they take it off and put it
Speaker 1: back on. I can't wait to talk about face off
Speaker 1: with you guys. I feel like I'm less afraid of
Speaker 1: having like a completely changed face to look at them,
Speaker 1: of like having all the time to think about it
Speaker 1: right and checking it up and checking as you heal,
Speaker 1: and like as you start to see what your face
Speaker 1: is going to look like. I mean, this is kind
Speaker 1: of what I had when I was a kid, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, is that just how it's going
Speaker 1: to settle? Like it's very weird. Um. Yeah, it's fun
Speaker 1: to feel alienated from your physical apperiances. It's an adventure.
Speaker 1: So we're going to take a quick break and when
Speaker 1: we come back, we'll be joined by Jamie Loftus and
Speaker 1: Caitlin Duranty as to talk about Death Becomes Her, So
Speaker 1: stick around, Hello, and welcome back to Night Call. We
Speaker 1: are joined right now by the co hosts of The
Speaker 1: Bechdel Cast, one of our favorite podcasts. Please welcome Jamie
Speaker 1: Loftus and Caitlin Duranty. Thanks for having us privilege. We
Speaker 1: have attempted the most unwieldy covid era podcast by trying
Speaker 1: to get five people on a podcast over zoom at
Speaker 1: the same time. So everybody should be really proud of us, right,
Speaker 1: really heroic effort to heroes really like things are joining
Speaker 1: us today to talk about one of the all time
Speaker 1: classic plastic surgery movies. Robert smeass Death Becomes Her. Oh
Speaker 1: a simpler time. Have you guys seen this before? Yes,
Speaker 1: we've actually covered it on a bonus Patreon episode of
Speaker 1: The Bechtel Cast. Yeah, so we've analyzed it from It's weird.
Speaker 1: I think we talked about like the elements of like
Speaker 1: plastic surgery body horror in this movie, but we didn't
Speaker 1: get super deep into it. I'm excited. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: this is my first time seeing it. I still can't
Speaker 1: believe that. Emily, Yeah, how did you avoid it. I
Speaker 1: don't know, you know, I think it came out in
Speaker 1: this funny time when I was like too young to
Speaker 1: see it, and I don't know, it was just not
Speaker 1: on my radar something to see when I was whatever
Speaker 1: seven years old, and then I don't know, it just
Speaker 1: skipped me. Like I associated this movie for a long
Speaker 1: time with Witches of Eastwick, but I saw Which Is
Speaker 1: of east Wick before I saw this, so I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what to say. I've
Speaker 1: also been on kind of a Robert Zemecka's kick lately,
Speaker 1: like I find his filmography to be extremely watchable during
Speaker 1: the pandemic, at least the first half of it. I mean,
Speaker 1: his later movies get a little Sure, you don't you're
Speaker 1: not Marwin Head, Sorry, sorry, sorry, Marwin. I love Back
Speaker 1: to the Future that I think it's terrible. I'm in
Speaker 1: no big hurry to rewatch Back to the few Sure,
Speaker 1: it's still one of my favorite movies of all time.
Speaker 1: I watched Back to the Future like once every two years.
Speaker 1: Especially it's really fun once you have kids to introduce
Speaker 1: them to Back to the Future, because it's also it's
Speaker 1: one of the like I don't know, with my son.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I have to wait a little,
Speaker 1: you know, until he's a little older to introduce this
Speaker 1: or this. But I'm like, back to the future. It's
Speaker 1: appealing for everybody. Uh I love that movie favorite. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well this because this is interesting because it comes between
Speaker 1: Roger Rabbit and Forrest Gump, right, which is like I
Speaker 1: don't know how you connect those thoughts except that like
Speaker 1: death that comes to her just feels like a cartoon
Speaker 1: for adults. Like, Yeah, there's a lot of movies from
Speaker 1: around this era that I feel like kind of fit
Speaker 1: into that, Like there's this has anybody's seen this totally
Speaker 1: like bananas insane film called um god, Nothing Trouble. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like that. It's like live action cartoons that are
Speaker 1: kind of like too risque for children. I'm shocked we
Speaker 1: didn't cover nothing but Trouble and terrifying eighties prosthetics. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what is nothing but Trouble? Oh my god. I just
Speaker 1: saw it for the first time, like a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago, because my boyfriend really loves it. It's a
Speaker 1: dan ackroid movie about a bunch of like New York
Speaker 1: yuppies getting stranded in a weird industrial East Coast Town.
Speaker 1: They can't escape, but there's a lot of like terrifying makeup,
Speaker 1: dan ackroid playing a bunch of different characters and like
Speaker 1: nutty professor, makeup type, prosthetics, prosthetics um and digital underground
Speaker 1: or in it. Oh whoa, it's truly. It's truly a
Speaker 1: like like when I saw it, I was not only
Speaker 1: like how did this get made? I was just like,
Speaker 1: how did I never? How did no one ever say
Speaker 1: you have to see this? It's so insane? Are young?
Speaker 1: Like I saw it at a slumber party or something,
Speaker 1: probably around when I came out, and I was totally
Speaker 1: baffled by it at the time. I would be interested
Speaker 1: to re watch. I was terrified of Death Becomes Her
Speaker 1: when I saw it originally, really yeah, because scared of it.
Speaker 1: I found it so creepy. And I saw it with
Speaker 1: like a friend and whose dad took us to see it,
Speaker 1: because I feel like my parents probably would have been like,
Speaker 1: it's too scary for like a nine year old, you know,
Speaker 1: but I totally was freaked out by it. It was
Speaker 1: just so the prosthetics and makeup and such ele effects
Speaker 1: were just so creepy to me. This is like my
Speaker 1: favorite era of like visual effects. I think, because it's
Speaker 1: like it doesn't look like good, but you can just
Speaker 1: tell they're doing so many different things, Like there are
Speaker 1: some you're like, oh, that's a computer, You're like, no,
Speaker 1: that's an animal trunk that's and I feel like maybe
Speaker 1: originally you weren't supposed to be able to tell, but
Speaker 1: now it's very like clear who didn't. I also think
Speaker 1: that there was so much trial and error. It sounds
Speaker 1: like in the filming of it where they were like, okay,
Speaker 1: we can do that with an animatronic head, and then
Speaker 1: they look at it and they're just like, no, we
Speaker 1: have to go back and do c G. I. It
Speaker 1: sounds like it must have been a really interminably long
Speaker 1: shoot and really horribly frustrating. But I love the texture
Speaker 1: of like the neckbones popping out. I love that ship.
Speaker 1: It looks so good to me. I think I was
Speaker 1: also unsettled, as like a kid by like what this
Speaker 1: movie appeared to say about women. You know, sure, I
Speaker 1: was like I'm nine, but it's like this what's in
Speaker 1: store for me as an adult? Like this is what
Speaker 1: all these movies when you're a kid kind of that's
Speaker 1: the question behind them, is like this is this what
Speaker 1: being a grown up is like. Yeah, but I found
Speaker 1: out just reading about it yesterday that it was made
Speaker 1: basically at the same time that SACas was doing Tales
Speaker 1: from the Crypt, and it was sort of an idea
Speaker 1: that came out of Tales from the Crypt and was
Speaker 1: maybe originally going to just be a Tales from the
Speaker 1: Crypt episode. And that made it make a lot more
Speaker 1: sense to me because it totally feels like a fifties
Speaker 1: horror comic. Yes, And that also makes it like it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter that they're both just really vain and sort
Speaker 1: of shallow people. It's like just a moral parable moral tale. Um.
Speaker 1: Should we go over what exactly becomes her is about?
Speaker 1: Just in case somebody like me as of a week
Speaker 1: ago hasn't seen it. So basically, there's Helen, who's played
Speaker 1: by Goldie Hawn and Madeleine what's her last name again?
Speaker 1: Made a who's Meryl Streep and they were childhood friends
Speaker 1: and kind of rivals. So um, Goldie Hawn. Helen is
Speaker 1: engaged I believe, to Bruce Willis, whose name in the
Speaker 1: movie is Ernest Menville Um, who is a plastic surgeon.
Speaker 1: They're engaged and she he is going to meet Helen
Speaker 1: for the first time, I mean Madeline for the first time,
Speaker 1: and Helen starts twisting a napkin and she's like, he
Speaker 1: you know, she'll steal you. She steals everything from me,
Speaker 1: and then cut to Madaline and Ernest getting married and
Speaker 1: the beginning of like Goldie Hawns Total Downfall, where she's institutionalized,
Speaker 1: gains a million pounds and basically decides that she's going
Speaker 1: to destroy Madeleine's life and Ernest as well. Then eventually
Speaker 1: you get to Isabella Rosselini as a person with a
Speaker 1: potion where if you take it then you are always
Speaker 1: the same age, but you have to take care of
Speaker 1: your body because you can basically become like a living
Speaker 1: corpse spoiler, which of course happens, and then they end
Speaker 1: up in a battle where they both die but are
Speaker 1: the living dead and also have to be spray painted
Speaker 1: with like, you know, formalde hyde paint which sticks to corpse,
Speaker 1: which is very convenient because Ernest in a in a
Speaker 1: side part of the story which we don't don't see
Speaker 1: but feels like a whole movie and to itself, becomes
Speaker 1: an alcoholic who gets like like he loses his um
Speaker 1: license or whatever. To be a plastic surgeon, so he
Speaker 1: has to be a reconstructive mortician. He like an undertaker,
Speaker 1: but he's brilliant at spray painting corpses. Bruce Willis is,
Speaker 1: this is like the best Bruce Willis. It's a very
Speaker 1: lifetime when they just let him be a character actor.
Speaker 1: He's so fun and he's so likable, even in this role.
Speaker 1: You're like, he seems great, Like he's such a hero
Speaker 1: in this movie. I could not disagree more. I find really,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think he's great. I think he's
Speaker 1: so miscast, seem you know, it was almost Kevin Kline, Well,
Speaker 1: that would make a lot more sense. And also Jeff Bridges,
Speaker 1: I think auditioned and was turned to down, which I
Speaker 1: was like, what this is all over the map. This
Speaker 1: feels like a degree to which Bruce Willis doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense because it does feel like a little bit like
Speaker 1: out of his lane. But I feel like that's why
Speaker 1: I feel like he's winking the whole time, being like,
Speaker 1: isn't this cool? I'm playing a guy who's not cool.
Speaker 1: Imagine me the coolest guy in the world. And also
Speaker 1: they listed some names that he had suggested for the movie.
Speaker 1: They were like the death Blues, and the other one
Speaker 1: is like death is my Lady? Is my Lady? That's
Speaker 1: a good that's a good title. Though, well, death Becomes
Speaker 1: Her as a great title, even though I don't fully
Speaker 1: understand it. Well, it's like something that people like say
Speaker 1: it's like a very it feels like a very Adams
Speaker 1: Family typeline. Like it feels like a tea up for
Speaker 1: a joke in an Adam's Family movie. Is it a
Speaker 1: Robert of time or joke? Is it like I Am
Speaker 1: Become Death? It's like it's like if you're looking at
Speaker 1: a beautiful corpse and you're like, oh, death becomes her?
Speaker 1: Like it it's like put that together. I was like,
Speaker 1: it is okay, so much. I don't think it's also
Speaker 1: I am become Death, destroyer of world her. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: becomes death. I think it works both ways. Jamie and Caitlin,
Speaker 1: are you generally fans of this movie or not so much?
Speaker 1: I like the movie a lot, but I don't think
Speaker 1: that for for the purposes of our podcast, affairs not
Speaker 1: super well. Oh yeah, just because the whole thing is
Speaker 1: about two women fighting over nerdy Bruce Willis, and just
Speaker 1: like the idea they are presented as being so obsessed
Speaker 1: with like maintaining their youth, but like without exploring why
Speaker 1: that might be or the implications of that or anything,
Speaker 1: I just seem like it's their fault. Yeah. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love the movie. I think it's very silly. It's a
Speaker 1: it's it gets a ten out of ten on my
Speaker 1: Rombo meter. It's lots of fun, big camp energy to
Speaker 1: such a big camp energy, so camp. Even if it
Speaker 1: doesn't technically pass the back del test, it feels like
Speaker 1: it passes the like whatever happened to Baby Jane tests?
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, but it's also there their relationship I
Speaker 1: find deep enough to make up for the fact that
Speaker 1: as individuals there's not that much depth there. But I
Speaker 1: also I just I think it's such a funny movie,
Speaker 1: and I was surprised that when it came out it
Speaker 1: was like danged for not being like, I mean, at
Speaker 1: least admit that it's very funny, right of course. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's also just makes people uncomfortable to think about,
Speaker 1: which is a testament to what's good about it, but
Speaker 1: also what makes it freaky. Yeah. I mean I think
Speaker 1: that there is something about their friendship and though they're
Speaker 1: both horrible people. Like by the end when they're at
Speaker 1: his funeral and they're these two like Decayne people who
Speaker 1: can only hang out with each other. I mean it
Speaker 1: becomes the vampire movie. Basically, it's just like we can
Speaker 1: only hang out with each other because we're the only
Speaker 1: people who have our life experience. Yeah, and we're not
Speaker 1: duck with each other. That's the fantasy, right that, like
Speaker 1: Betty and Veronica just outlive Archie to become empires together.
Speaker 1: I did, I think when we were first covering it,
Speaker 1: I remember thinking, like, I wish that we knew why
Speaker 1: they dislike each other so much earlier in the movie,
Speaker 1: because I feel like you find out pretty far in
Speaker 1: in a way that I was like, I didn't get
Speaker 1: anything extra by having that information like withheld from me
Speaker 1: for like an hour. But like once you understand it,
Speaker 1: I feel like the relationship like takes off and and
Speaker 1: feels like it makes more sense. But it was just
Speaker 1: for the first half of the movie. I'm like, wait, why,
Speaker 1: like why do they hate each other so much? Why
Speaker 1: will they not tell us? I think I think are
Speaker 1: just meant to understand it as a boilerplate like female
Speaker 1: friendship as understood by men. Where they actually each other. Well,
Speaker 1: there's the thing it's like, is it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: a twist that there's actually a solid reason why they
Speaker 1: don't like each other, or just like I think Goldie
Speaker 1: Hans character says pretty early on that it's how you know,
Speaker 1: Madeline like takes everything from her, like steals all of
Speaker 1: her boyfriends and everything. But then there's that monologue or
Speaker 1: I guess it's an exchange that's like in the last
Speaker 1: portion of the movie where you know, Meryl Streep like
Speaker 1: forces Goldie Han to admit that she always thought she
Speaker 1: was cheap or something like so you always thought I
Speaker 1: was cheap and I was like, okay, So I guess
Speaker 1: there are more layers to that. But stealing someone's fiances,
Speaker 1: like that's that's reason enough to pretty big and and
Speaker 1: like it's and him or or Goldie Han taking Bruce
Speaker 1: Willis to see Madeline show is sort of like presented
Speaker 1: as a test, like it was a test, is like
Speaker 1: you can see her and not fall in love with her,
Speaker 1: then I know we're meant to be together. And he
Speaker 1: fails the tests, so it's like the Bechdel tests, but
Speaker 1: they does. Yeah, I truly, I truly hate the fat suit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the part of the movie. Yeah. Suits. But that
Speaker 1: to me, I think I just felt a little bit
Speaker 1: like this movie doesn't have that much respect for its characters,
Speaker 1: and you feel that it's the problem with a lot
Speaker 1: of camp. For me, uh, it's like good camp. You
Speaker 1: feel emotions about these people. It's like melodrama. This to
Speaker 1: me just feels a little bit too much, like yeah,
Speaker 1: like aren't women stupid? Yeah? Oh see, I think they're
Speaker 1: compelling enough. I like the fact that you're expected to
Speaker 1: deal with like two very evil, competitive like witchy women
Speaker 1: and then they take it for granted like well they're in.
Speaker 1: You know, they'll hold your attention, just like to evil
Speaker 1: witchy men would hold your engine. And I do think
Speaker 1: there are moments like I mean, I think that that
Speaker 1: Goldie Hunt's character is like more sympathetic of the two
Speaker 1: of them. But even when Meryl Streep is like before
Speaker 1: she goes to see Isabella and Celini, who is also incredible,
Speaker 1: so yeah, um, but when she's at the regular plastic
Speaker 1: surgeons and she's having her melt down because she can't
Speaker 1: get like another whatever treatment that she wants again, and
Speaker 1: you see that like even though she's the person who,
Speaker 1: like one that particular battle like it's it's still this
Speaker 1: just punishing kind of game she's set herself up in
Speaker 1: where she has to continually beat herself at being young
Speaker 1: and beautiful and beautiful even though it's like against the
Speaker 1: laws of nature. I don't know that feels like even
Speaker 1: though she sucks, it's like you feel bad for somebody
Speaker 1: who's opted into that. Yeah, and it's good that they're
Speaker 1: both so blatantly unlikable. You know. I'm not saying I
Speaker 1: want them to be softened necessarily or have some moment
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, they're real people. I would just
Speaker 1: like more detail about their background and friendship. You want
Speaker 1: the serious. I definitely think it like works more for me,
Speaker 1: Like if I reframe it in my head as like
Speaker 1: a class commentary, then as like, sure, how women relate
Speaker 1: to like from a like from a feminist it's hard,
Speaker 1: it's hard to make an argument for it. But from
Speaker 1: a class standpoint, I feel like that's like an easier
Speaker 1: pill for me to swallow of like what the intent
Speaker 1: might have been, But I don't know. It's sort of
Speaker 1: yadda yadda. How Goldie Han has the means to have
Speaker 1: her come up because it's supposed to be like exorbitantly
Speaker 1: expensive to do. Because Goldie Han's character became a best
Speaker 1: selling author and only after she thought motion right, I
Speaker 1: she said that she gave everything. Well, I think in
Speaker 1: the original I went like really too deep on trying
Speaker 1: to find that. Yeah, in the original script, I think
Speaker 1: that they were both like semi I might be making
Speaker 1: up that they were semi both semi wealthy, but they
Speaker 1: met at Radcliffe as opposed to being childhood friends, so
Speaker 1: I assumed they had like family money and then um,
Speaker 1: Goldie Hawn spent it all adjust for inflation because Goldie
Speaker 1: Hawn got it much earlier, of course than Meryl Streep
Speaker 1: and so it was less. But she gave up everything.
Speaker 1: Then that gave her the juice to, like, you know,
Speaker 1: basically try and earn it all back by exploiting the
Speaker 1: fact that she looks great in writing books about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I justify everything in this movie. But the
Speaker 1: funniest thing about this movie is how much of the
Speaker 1: transformation between when they're like old and ugly and like
Speaker 1: young and beautiful again, it's just makeup and wardrobe, right, Well,
Speaker 1: aren't they just going to like present day Goldie Hawn
Speaker 1: and Meryl Street because like they're supposed to be older,
Speaker 1: and I think, so, right, that's it. It looked like
Speaker 1: that was how they looked then, right. And I also
Speaker 1: feel like Meryl Streep always looks the same, so who knows.
Speaker 1: Like she's apparently forty three when she made this, I
Speaker 1: think Goldie Hawn was about fifty. She was Goldie on with.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I watched Shampoo last night and like
Speaker 1: accidentally kind of had a Goldie hank back to back
Speaker 1: like and it was very enlightening. She's but yeah, she's
Speaker 1: the best. She's so I think this is the most
Speaker 1: like quintessential plastic surgery movie. Though. I was so happy
Speaker 1: that we were watching it because I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: i'd also I watched Face Off, which we're going to
Speaker 1: tackle at some point too, and those are the two
Speaker 1: that I always think of for plastic surgery. Um, but
Speaker 1: this one, like the entire movie, is just such a
Speaker 1: great way of summing up, like, you know, the real
Speaker 1: horror of like taking off your face and pulling it
Speaker 1: putting it back on. I mean, I think it just
Speaker 1: really maybe that's why I love it so much, is
Speaker 1: because I'm so uncomfortable with the idea of plastic surgery
Speaker 1: that I feel like this is the movie for that.
Speaker 1: That makes it as horrifying as all. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: And it's like so clear in the movie that like
Speaker 1: they're not doing it for themselves necessarily, like it's for
Speaker 1: both of them. It's a survival move rather than like
Speaker 1: this is how I want my body to look, just
Speaker 1: because yeah, it's like a socio economic strategy. Yeah, Madaline,
Speaker 1: it's like part of her career. Like you see the
Speaker 1: opening scene of like people walking out of the theater
Speaker 1: of like whatever stage production she's doing, and people like, oh,
Speaker 1: she's so old, what a ancient which I'm looking at
Speaker 1: on stage and it's like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: She's like in her forties. But I think like one
Speaker 1: of the big conversations that we had had about it
Speaker 1: on the episode we did was and we already kind
Speaker 1: of touched on this, but um, it's a movie like
Speaker 1: written and directed by men, and it's like just their
Speaker 1: idea of like, well, women are always competing against each
Speaker 1: other and women are obsessed with being young or like
Speaker 1: maintaining youthful looks. We have no idea why that might be,
Speaker 1: but let's make a movie about it. And it's like, well,
Speaker 1: it's because you, as men have voisted this unrealistic standard
Speaker 1: of beauty on women that like if we don't try
Speaker 1: to maintain then we're like ostracized and ridiculed and all
Speaker 1: this stuff. But like men never seemed to because there's
Speaker 1: so many there's quite a few movies about this, and
Speaker 1: like men, the male filmmakers who are usually making these
Speaker 1: movies like never think to look a little further beyond,
Speaker 1: like why might women be so obsessed with like trying
Speaker 1: like getting plastic surgery, wearing makeup, spending so much time
Speaker 1: on like getting ready and looking good. And it's like, well,
Speaker 1: it's because of you and your standards. Will take a
Speaker 1: quick break and be right back. I do think that
Speaker 1: there's something somewhat I won't say that it makes up
Speaker 1: for that, because that's something that you know, you just
Speaker 1: can't get away from in the film. But I think
Speaker 1: that the fact that Bruce willis, and especially the fact
Speaker 1: that it's Bruce willis and it is like just such
Speaker 1: a puts and so undesirable, and so it has nothing
Speaker 1: to do with like trying to get somebody hot, like
Speaker 1: It's like there's that's like feels very intentional, that there's
Speaker 1: this huge injustice that he doesn't have to keep himself
Speaker 1: up at all. He just looks horrible and like is
Speaker 1: just becoming a miserable alcoholic. And meanwhile the two women
Speaker 1: in his life are just like literally killing themselves to
Speaker 1: stay you know, I don't know viable as as romantic interests,
Speaker 1: and that I feel like the absurdity of that is
Speaker 1: very large in it. It could be a really good
Speaker 1: remake of this about influencers totally. Yeah. Um, I would
Speaker 1: love to see the like build a body trend taken
Speaker 1: on in a similar horror core fashion with animatronics still oh,
Speaker 1: totally all practical effects, um, but but digital uh touching up?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah? Um. Do you guys so we're doing this
Speaker 1: is in the middle of our plastic surgery month? Uh?
Speaker 1: Do you guys have any particular um thoughts or feelings
Speaker 1: about the plastic surgery industrial complex related to this film
Speaker 1: or otherwise or or perhaps inspired by this film? Oh? Man,
Speaker 1: ye sure? Um. I suppose I have a complicated and
Speaker 1: ever evolving stance on plastic surgery. I've not had any
Speaker 1: done myself. I don't know that I ever would consider it. Um,
Speaker 1: but I also, um, you know, uh, I am thirty three,
Speaker 1: and maybe when I'm like twenty years from now, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna want a tightening or something. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Who knows. Um, we'll all be dead in thirty years,
Speaker 1: so who cares. You can save the money. So and
Speaker 1: and for the longest time, I was like, no, plastic
Speaker 1: surgery is horrible. You should just accept the way you
Speaker 1: were born. And like, but now I'm like, well, whatever,
Speaker 1: it's your body, your choice, Like if you want to
Speaker 1: like have a procedure and you're like responsible about like
Speaker 1: spending your money, and if like I don't know, it's like,
Speaker 1: do whatever you want to do. It's your body. I
Speaker 1: grew up like I grew up very pro plastic surgery,
Speaker 1: even though no my family could afford it. But like
Speaker 1: we were all like I don't know, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: have a weird relationship with it as well. I'm like
Speaker 1: I I anyone should do whatever they want to do
Speaker 1: with their body. Um. But then it's but then, like
Speaker 1: the reason my mom always wanted plastic surgery was for
Speaker 1: like very like reasons connected to her own insecurities and
Speaker 1: was like very forthcoming about that, So I feel weird.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like I also would probably do it
Speaker 1: if I've felt so like, if I had the resources
Speaker 1: and felt like this is something that like would make
Speaker 1: me feel a certain way and I and I can
Speaker 1: get past the body horror element, which I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if I could. But yeah, I don't know. My mom
Speaker 1: used to like, I don't know why we were so pro,
Speaker 1: but like she she would always like say that like
Speaker 1: famous Share quote to us when we were like preteens
Speaker 1: and about like your boobs on your back, like that
Speaker 1: quote quote. Oh, it's this famous share quote that she said.
Speaker 1: Where I think it was when people were giving her
Speaker 1: like like peak people giving Share shit about her plastic surgeries,
Speaker 1: and she just like yelled at a reporter that she
Speaker 1: can put her boobs on her back if she wants
Speaker 1: and no one can give her shit about it. And
Speaker 1: I guess that really resonated with my mom because it
Speaker 1: was a quote over and over and over when I
Speaker 1: was a kid. And so I don't know, Yeah, I am,
Speaker 1: like I think I'm generally pro, but I also like
Speaker 1: every time I feel like, oh, if I look, I
Speaker 1: try to at least interrogate what about it is making
Speaker 1: me feel that way. But in the end, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm pro I think, yeah, I don't know what I
Speaker 1: would do if I had been brought up with somebody
Speaker 1: who was at all pro it, because I was not.
Speaker 1: So I think like all of the attitudes I have
Speaker 1: about it are kind of like evolved out of that
Speaker 1: in rebellion or otherwise, um or just shaded by that.
Speaker 1: But um, but I I mean, I have plenty of
Speaker 1: friends who like, especially people who grew up around here too,
Speaker 1: where it's just like much more normalized. Um. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just it's I think that has a lot to
Speaker 1: do with it, like kind of also the culture in
Speaker 1: what you're growing up to. Um. I saw the quote
Speaker 1: by the way on my back not I guess my
Speaker 1: mom edited the quote for it is if I want
Speaker 1: to put my tits on my back, it's nobody's business
Speaker 1: but my own. Yeah, yeah, I remember that very That's
Speaker 1: funny that my mom edited it. That's the part that children.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I think like we it was
Speaker 1: like an aspirational like the idea of being able to
Speaker 1: get plastic surgery was like an aspirational concept in our household,
Speaker 1: and so stuff like that was very inspiring to the
Speaker 1: group I see. I think that I think the Dollague
Speaker 1: quote is always the one that resonates with me, where
Speaker 1: it's like it costs a lot of money to look
Speaker 1: this cheap like because then it kind of divorces it,
Speaker 1: or it's like a rejection of the idea that it
Speaker 1: is like a status symbol or like an economic status symbol,
Speaker 1: that it's just sort of like an expression of personal expression.
Speaker 1: She was always saying though that she wanted to look
Speaker 1: like the like the prostitutes in your town, who she
Speaker 1: thought like the most beautiful women in the world, which
Speaker 1: is like, I don't know, it's just like cool, bring
Speaker 1: your own values to it, like whatever. It doesn't need
Speaker 1: to be about one particular ideal that you're trying to replicate. Um,
Speaker 1: that's sort of the wiggle room I find with that.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just always think about There were
Speaker 1: these MTV True life episodes about people getting plastic surgery,
Speaker 1: and they were about just like regular people who had
Speaker 1: like saved up their whole life to get some plastic
Speaker 1: surgery and then they would get it and they would
Speaker 1: like still not be happy with themselves. That was always
Speaker 1: the message was like there was the caffeine plant sky
Speaker 1: that they then used on an Entourage plotline, but it
Speaker 1: was like once he got caffeine plants, then he was like,
Speaker 1: now I want to get pack im plants. It's just
Speaker 1: like it sort of starts a chain. It feels like like, well,
Speaker 1: if I did this one thing, what else can I do?
Speaker 1: And you see, especially with rich people, that there's like
Speaker 1: a slippery slope of like just doing everything on the
Speaker 1: table because you're being given access to it, which is
Speaker 1: what I think death becomes her. It's also good about
Speaker 1: It's like, get if you start going down this road,
Speaker 1: it is a commitment and you can't just like undo it.
Speaker 1: You have to put in maintenance. It's yeah, you've opted
Speaker 1: into a lifestyle and a certain kind of like yeah,
Speaker 1: personal maintenance thing. And I feel like, you know, I
Speaker 1: think it's shorthand in the film, but like the fact
Speaker 1: that it takes place in Beverly Hills is just sort
Speaker 1: of a way to say, like, yes, like everybody around
Speaker 1: them is doing this. This is just sort of the
Speaker 1: way it is. One of my favorite things about the
Speaker 1: fact that it's like they're underlining so much the Beverly Hills.
Speaker 1: Nous of it is the hospital is like the hospital
Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills. That's what I wanted to do for
Speaker 1: our where we were. This episode's hospital and it's like
Speaker 1: like the Beverly Hills Hotel. It has this signature. The
Speaker 1: signature wallpaper is the hospital curtains. And I only know
Speaker 1: that signature wallpaper because I am friendly with a real
Speaker 1: estate agent who posted a listing the other day and
Speaker 1: I was like, that looks fancy and I clicked it
Speaker 1: and I saw that it had like this, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of banana leaf wallpaper, and I was like, who
Speaker 1: has that wallpaper that I know? And then I was like, no,
Speaker 1: it's no one. You know. It's pictures of the Beverly
Speaker 1: Hills Hotel. The pink Hotel signature. It has like a name,
Speaker 1: but I forget what the name is. That kind of wallpaper. Um,
Speaker 1: and then there's like pink trim around the doors of
Speaker 1: the hospital and it's like a pink hospital. It's it's
Speaker 1: like a Barbie hospital. It's great to that. They also
Speaker 1: they seemed to be a different points dressing, like just
Speaker 1: because I was going into it with like a Robert
Speaker 1: Samaka's mindset. He seemed to be like dressing Goldie Han
Speaker 1: up like exactly like Jessica Rabbit at one point like this,
Speaker 1: are you referencing yourself? Like well, he does reference and
Speaker 1: stuff in a different moment. And here's what it is.
Speaker 1: So um, Goldie Han says the exact date that she
Speaker 1: took the potion and it's October and if you know,
Speaker 1: back to the future, the temporal junction point of the
Speaker 1: space time continuum. That's a fun man. I like that
Speaker 1: he's building a secret extended universe for nobody. I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that this movie is very cartoony. It's very
Speaker 1: also like a tex Savery cartoon the way that Jessica
Speaker 1: Rabbit is. For sure, that is the best thing about it.
Speaker 1: And I watched this back to back with Birds of Prey,
Speaker 1: which I know you guys are gonna talk about. Also,
Speaker 1: just like I love just people getting bopped on the
Speaker 1: head sometimes just stair falls where there's like ten seconds
Speaker 1: of somebody just like waving their arms and so many stairs.
Speaker 1: So good. Yeah, the prat falls are great. I mean
Speaker 1: that's the thing too. It's like, how many movies are
Speaker 1: there that are just like a comedy starring two women
Speaker 1: just doing a lot of physical comedy. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I think that the silliness of it is sort
Speaker 1: of it's it's like saving grace because it's you know,
Speaker 1: you can you can dig it however you want, for um,
Speaker 1: not maybe being as it's perspective being a little stunted
Speaker 1: as far as you know, women's relationships with each other,
Speaker 1: women's relationships to beauty. But it's also just like such
Speaker 1: a farce that and that's kind of and the and
Speaker 1: the degree to which is a farce is like so
Speaker 1: I think, especially for the time, like technically well done
Speaker 1: that yeah yeah, and it really does feel like it
Speaker 1: takes place in the same universe as Tales from the Crypt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. I love there's also the point to be
Speaker 1: made that when the women fall down the stairs, they
Speaker 1: fall and they hit every single stare and break their
Speaker 1: bodies into like these broken you know, Marionette things at
Speaker 1: the bottom. But then when Bruce Willis throws himself he
Speaker 1: tries to kind of throw himself down the stairs of
Speaker 1: this like you know, I don't know actually if it's
Speaker 1: great if it was shot at Graystone or where this was, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: he throws himself off intending to kill himself, and instead
Speaker 1: he falls like through a ceiling and into a pool
Speaker 1: and survives, and it's you know, it's like the whole
Speaker 1: thing is he's yeah, like I only said, he's just
Speaker 1: a putts. He's like they make fun of him constantly
Speaker 1: as being just a loser, and he's being fought over
Speaker 1: by like two much more interesting women who then like
Speaker 1: they fall down the stairs and they get like totally destroyed.
Speaker 1: But he he tries to throw himself down the stairs,
Speaker 1: nothing happens to him. He's like invincible. Yeah. Do you
Speaker 1: think a lot of people when they saw this movie
Speaker 1: for the first time came out of it like shipping
Speaker 1: Goldie and Meryl's characters. S Well, it's like a big
Speaker 1: like LGBT classic GE's like a huge like drag queen
Speaker 1: and there's so many good drag interpretations of Yeah. The
Speaker 1: genre that, uh, whatever happened to Baby Jane is that
Speaker 1: Tess and I just both always are obsessed with. It's
Speaker 1: called psycho Biddie. I love that. It's the best. It's
Speaker 1: movies about it's like horror movies about the societal like
Speaker 1: fear of older women. And there's a bunch of them
Speaker 1: from the seventies, made by the person who made Whatever
Speaker 1: Happened to Baby Jane. A lot of them are called
Speaker 1: like who slew aunt ru Um? What's that one? The
Speaker 1: Helen one? Oh, what's the matter with Hell? What's the
Speaker 1: matter with Helen? With Helen is thrown questions to check
Speaker 1: out what's the matter with Helen? It involves Shelly Winters
Speaker 1: and a tap dance school for children. It's to death
Speaker 1: becomes Her because her name is also Helen. That's true.
Speaker 1: They but it's just you know, like I love that
Speaker 1: genre because it is like, oh, these these characters are
Speaker 1: actually like the most interesting people in the world. I
Speaker 1: mean in a way. That's also what I enjoy about
Speaker 1: The Real Housewives, Yeah, which is like and it's like,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, even though they're terrible
Speaker 1: and these are like and and the same with Housewives,
Speaker 1: it's like this sort of kind of terrible representation of
Speaker 1: women that's put out by men. Uh, it's still like
Speaker 1: their rage at the end of the day and they're
Speaker 1: like kind of bitterness and anger towards the world feels
Speaker 1: very earned. Because yeah, and then the Real Housewives of
Speaker 1: New York especially, it's like a lot of them were
Speaker 1: married when the show started out, but now they're all
Speaker 1: single and they all hate being single, but they're all
Speaker 1: stuck with each other in that way where they're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're a bunch of we're like five single women in
Speaker 1: our sixties out and then when they meet a man,
Speaker 1: they all just like trash each other over him. I
Speaker 1: will say that my biggest actual complaint with the movie
Speaker 1: as far as like what it's saying or whatever, it's
Speaker 1: just that Earnest Bruce Willis's character is the only person
Speaker 1: of the main characters that we know to like resist
Speaker 1: the lure of the potion, which is just like I
Speaker 1: don't feel like he would. I feel like he's such
Speaker 1: a like why is he the person to be Like, No,
Speaker 1: I want to have a great life and and die naturally,
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't care about being young forever. Like,
Speaker 1: So it really puts it on the women for having
Speaker 1: these expectations for what they're supposed to, you know, what
Speaker 1: their life is supposed to look like. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, like they found the potion of their own volition,
Speaker 1: but he they like hit him on the head and
Speaker 1: dragged him into the place to try and give him
Speaker 1: the potion. They just want to keep him around as
Speaker 1: they're like forever undertakers. Think as a cosmetologist, Oh, this
Speaker 1: is my the question about the kind of the way
Speaker 1: that everything works with the potion is it. Are they
Speaker 1: only having their problems because they did kind of die? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then they So you notice when Goldie hawnt Is
Speaker 1: is shot in the stomach that she goes into the
Speaker 1: into the fountain and there's blood everywhere. And I think
Speaker 1: the same thing with Madaline when he's like trying to
Speaker 1: fix up Madeleine, there's a big bucket of something that's
Speaker 1: supposed to be her blood. And I guess the deal
Speaker 1: is is that your body is like kind of preserved
Speaker 1: as if alive, Like you're basically alive, but if you die,
Speaker 1: then your blood drains out, and like the injuries that
Speaker 1: you sustain can't really heal. So they were only really
Speaker 1: dead after they after they got shot. Yeah, because yeah,
Speaker 1: Isabella Rossellini's character seeing she's like, I'm seventy years old
Speaker 1: and she looks very youthful, And I guess the idea
Speaker 1: is that she hasn't died, right, nor Maryland or Elvis
Speaker 1: or all the people. That's why she said take good
Speaker 1: care of your body. You'll have ba don't die. Apparently
Speaker 1: in one draft she was going to be Cleopatra, which
Speaker 1: is why there's residual ancient Egyptian stuff. That's great. But
Speaker 1: of course, who wouldn't throw Bruce willis the wish they
Speaker 1: could go live with Isabella Rossellini forever. Yeah, she seems
Speaker 1: to have the best life of anybody. She has Fabio
Speaker 1: as her bodyguard, she has Dick and Harry or her
Speaker 1: body Well. There's some interesting naming conventions I suppose in
Speaker 1: this movie because it's Helen and Madeleine, but they nickname
Speaker 1: each other hell and mad Okay, got it. It's because
Speaker 1: if you put them all together. I read this in
Speaker 1: the IMDb trivia it's Madder and Hell madder than how
Speaker 1: mad Hell Interesting. I told you guys. I was like,
Speaker 1: I love this movie. I'm going to read everything I could.
Speaker 1: This is I feel like that whole genre of like
Speaker 1: anything that has like a fear of like something going
Speaker 1: on with a one's body in it. In any way,
Speaker 1: it's like all really like reclaimable stuff is like the
Speaker 1: good thing well, and I think, well the matter and
Speaker 1: hew thing also just feels like it backs up my
Speaker 1: idea that this is about feeball rage more than anything else,
Speaker 1: like and that it's it's it's it comes through in
Speaker 1: the form of these um drastic cosmetic procedures and or potions.
Speaker 1: But it's also just about how like fundamentally furious these
Speaker 1: women are with you know, what the world is for them? Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know, which is like kind of why it's fun?
Speaker 1: I like that radio Yeah, you guys like double I
Speaker 1: have not scene what that's the other like Meryl Streep
Speaker 1: versus Roseanne uh? And Meryl Street plays another ridiculous woman
Speaker 1: in it very well. She plays like a famous romance
Speaker 1: novelist and she ruins Roseanne's life and then Roseanne comes
Speaker 1: to get revenge. Hell yeah, wait when did that come out?
Speaker 1: Late eighties or early nineties? I think it was like
Speaker 1: Roseanne's first and probably only movie, but they used to
Speaker 1: show it on Comedy Central. It was always on Comedy Central.
Speaker 1: Apparently Death Becomes Her had an ending, a theatrical ending
Speaker 1: that they didn't like in the screenings and changed where
Speaker 1: Bruce ends up with Tracy Ullman and they run over
Speaker 1: Madeleine and Goldie Hawn with a car and like have
Speaker 1: a happy ending and everybody hated it, so they were like, okay,
Speaker 1: we have Yeah, I like them outliving him, even if
Speaker 1: it's to be misera bowl and to fall down some stairs,
Speaker 1: Like ending is the best part. It's like a true
Speaker 1: tale of friendship. And it's like it's a little bit
Speaker 1: like ab fab absolutely those huge fab vibes. Um. It's
Speaker 1: like kind of it's it's like ready made to be captured,
Speaker 1: like you screen grab it and send it to your
Speaker 1: best friend and be like us in fifty years, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we have been talking a lot about which rich people
Speaker 1: are rich enough to keep getting injections right now versus
Speaker 1: everybody else who is going to just deflate in this
Speaker 1: time period. Are they just doing like home calls? Like
Speaker 1: I wonder what the system is? Wow, Madonna has somebody
Speaker 1: on staff pictured in a video. Uh, And I imagine
Speaker 1: the Kardashians probably have some doctor who's like changed under
Speaker 1: the stairs Harry Potter styles trapped in their smith. But
Speaker 1: you have to imagine there's a lot of like B
Speaker 1: tier influencers who are just going to have to let
Speaker 1: people see what their real lips look like. Now, then
Speaker 1: everybody's gonna everybody has to like bank all their photos
Speaker 1: in the first month of quarantine and then let them
Speaker 1: out for the next several months, or maybe all the
Speaker 1: influencers will have to pivot and then be like, actually,
Speaker 1: I'm body positive now, Like they'll have to be like
Speaker 1: because I want to, not because it's happening to me.
Speaker 1: LAK's daughter took her lip injections out and did that recently.
Speaker 1: She was like, I'm gonna like going back to the
Speaker 1: real meat, um, and then she immediately put them back.
Speaker 1: Did they dissolve You don't like take them out, I'm
Speaker 1: revealing my ignorance. You dissolve them? Right? So water you
Speaker 1: basically adjected there with water. I just pictured someone like
Speaker 1: peeling open their lips and being like plumped and taking
Speaker 1: out of the game plants and yeah, that's why I
Speaker 1: can't deal with plastic searchain. That's all it is. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I want to just fact check myself. It's not water,
Speaker 1: you're it turns to water. There's a there's some kind
Speaker 1: of solvent that you inject into the injection and it
Speaker 1: turns it into water. It's just reabsorbed by your body. Yeah, weird.
Speaker 1: It's so um too much about these things. It's your body.
Speaker 1: Your body is cleansing itself. Yes, your body is cleansing
Speaker 1: it durn well. Thank you so much for coming by
Speaker 1: you guys, and for talking about movie with us. This
Speaker 1: was so fun. Where can jinks personal jank a coke?
Speaker 1: Where can everybody find you? Guys? On the internet? You
Speaker 1: can find us at back del Cast on all the platforms.
Speaker 1: Are new episodes dropt Thursdays and I'm on Twitter at
Speaker 1: Jamie left his Help. You have a Patreon as well, guys,
Speaker 1: right we do, Yes, we do. That's where our death
Speaker 1: becomes our episode. Is anyone is interested in checking that out?
Speaker 1: It's just a cheap five bucks a month, you know,
Speaker 1: a steal um. It's up to bargain um and then um.
Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Caitlin Darante. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We love beck del Cast. Great podcasts, unessential listen. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening to Nightcall. Uh. We will
Speaker 1: be back next week with another episode. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: you can follow us on social media at Nightcall Pod
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Speaker 1: Leave us a rating and review. We would really appreciate it,
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Speaker 1: of fun stuff, so check that out. We'll be back
Speaker 1: next week, and UH Plastic Surgery April continues a pace