1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. That's our super producer, mister Max 4 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: Macnvox Williams. 5 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 2: Max Atari teenage Ryan Williams. 6 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: That's Noel Brown. I'm Ben Bullen. This is Part two 7 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: of the Ridiculous History of Atari. So if you haven't 8 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 1: heard part one yet, please get THEE to thy podcast 9 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: platform of choice and check it out, because part two 10 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: will make a lot more sense when you've heard part one. 11 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: It's true, but it's a pretty good division. I mean, 12 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: I would definitely recommend checking out episode one you probably 13 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: already have. But we're going to start from kind of 14 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: the fall from Grace type period of Atari. 15 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, more money, more problems, and as Biggie would say, 16 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: we're here in what we'll call the post pong era. 17 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I guess we're still in the post police man. 18 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 2: I think like postmodernism. 19 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: So Keza McDonald, writing for IGN, points out that Atari 20 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: is growing to new unprecedented levels, but at every step 21 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: along the way, the company is facing a litany a 22 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: chorus of challenges. Their trajectory is up up, up, up, 23 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: up and away. But they make a few missteps in 24 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: the seventies. 25 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: That's right, on the business side of things. Maybe they're 26 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 2: reached exceeding their grasp a bit when it comes to 27 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: banding to international markets, not to mention sinking a whole 28 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: lot of capital into a particularly convoluted development process on 29 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 2: a game called Grand Track ten, which may not surprise 30 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 2: you that you have not heard of. 31 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, And it also it reminds me of other 32 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: missteps that occurred in the past. We'll get to some 33 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: of them with Atari, yeah, right. But also games that 34 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: require a specific controller can be a little bit of 35 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: a hard sell, like a couple of Battle met games 36 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: are like that, and a couple of other you know, 37 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: in depth simulator games. Luckily, though, Atari is able to 38 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: save their bacon with a game that is a huge 39 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: hit Arcades. 40 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 2: It's called Tank, right, Yes, that is the game that 41 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 2: lifts them out of this this morass, these duldrums, and 42 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: Atari then has emerged with one of their sister companies 43 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 2: called k Key Games, key Key Games k e E, 44 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 2: which split off from Atari's main business in nineteen seventy 45 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 2: three to help the company get around some tricksy legal 46 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 2: areas or surrounding exclusivity. 47 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, exactly. And this was this was the rule 48 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: of the day with the arcade industry. So by spinning 49 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: off key games, they were able to say, oh no, 50 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not really us anymore. This is a 51 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: different guy. 52 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 2: And now we have sort of another Sears type situation 53 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: in terms of mergers, though in this case with a 54 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: big boy in the communications industry, Warner Communications. So you 55 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: may have heard of They've been in the news a 56 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: little bit lately. It is the same, right, Warner Communications 57 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: and Warner Brothers would not have been like a community 58 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 2: an extension or is this very complete? It has to be, 59 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: And forgive me if anyone knows that not to be true, 60 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: but I do believe it is the case. So they 61 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: sold to Warner Communications for this number was not a secret, 62 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: unlike the settlement with Magnavox for a publicized twenty eight 63 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: million dollars. We got inflation calculator this, guys, and a 64 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: dude boo boooooo, boo boopy doope oop boopoo. 65 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: Oh we must and thank you for the boop there. Max. No, 66 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: it's trying to get me to inflation calculate sisygy, which 67 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: we're going to do. That was something we had pasted earlier. Okay, 68 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: here we go, folks. In nineteen seventy three dollars, twenty 69 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: eight million dollars is going to be as of two 70 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: thousand and five, the equivalent of drum roll two hundred 71 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: and three million, twenty seven thousand, one hundred and seventeen 72 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: dollars and twelve cents. 73 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: A lot of cash, but still not at the level 74 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: of the types of communication and tech acquisitions we see 75 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: today that are like in the billions. 76 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: And of that twenty eight million, Bushnell himself receives the 77 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: line share. He walks away with something like fifteen million 78 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: of that twenty eight million. 79 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 2: Good on him. 80 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: He's put in the work, yeah, and he also he 81 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: bought out his co founder Ted Ted Dadney. Also, if 82 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: we inflation calculate once again to see Bushnell's share of 83 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: this sale, we will see the fifteen million in nineteen 84 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: seventy three is the equivalent of one hundred and eight million, 85 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: seven hundred and sixty four thousand, five hundred and twenty 86 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: seven dollars and three cents. So we set. 87 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 2: Easy retirement type windfall there for Buddy Bushnell. Yeah. 88 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: And weirdly enough, though, this is the beginning of Atari's 89 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: death nells. 90 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 2: Sometimes that happens, right when you get a big company 91 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 2: coming in and changing the company culture and stuff like that, 92 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: which we're going to get into. However, before that death knell, 93 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: you know, kind of rang out, there was another hugely 94 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: important development at Atari, which was the VCS, the home 95 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: game console that we know as the Atari. The Atari 96 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 2: twenty six hundred. 97 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably what you picture in your head, folks 98 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: when you think of Atari, or what's going to stick 99 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: in the button, It's going to be this console. It 100 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: stands for video computer system. Not the most creative name, 101 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: but a very creative piece of technology. Also, at this time, 102 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: Bushnell is drifting further and further away from the company 103 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: that he created. But if we go to James Lindino 104 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: writing for PC mag, we'll see that the twenty six 105 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: hundred is probably the I would say it's the second 106 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: most famous thing Atari's created outside of Pong. It's September eleventh, 107 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven. This is weird because it's not the 108 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: first video game console, it's not the first one to 109 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: accept cartridges, but it could bring actual arcade games home 110 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: to your house when you plugged it into your TV. 111 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 2: That's right. And by the end of nineteen seventy six 112 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 2: we started to see other competing systems jumping into the fray, 113 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 2: including Magnavox, Old Favorites and Kaliko with their was it 114 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: Calco vision. 115 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was one thing they did for sure, and 116 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: these other companies. There was real proliferation of boom and bust. 117 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: At least it was a console wars really, I mean, 118 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,679 Speaker 1: that's really what we're seeing here. And that did not stop. Yeah, 119 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: and we see this happen in all kinds of all 120 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:53,239 Speaker 1: kinds of industries, like the early days of soda pop. 121 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: There were so many flash in a pan soda companies 122 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: and flavors and the history that is amazing. But ultimately, 123 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, the market starts to collapse, the choices, right, 124 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: and there are just a few big soda companies, are a 125 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: few big video game console manufacturers left. There's something else 126 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: that happens here with an outfit called Fairchild. This company 127 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: gets in front of the curve and beats Atari to 128 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: the punch with something called Channel F. This is a 129 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: microprocessor based game console. 130 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 2: I want to say that Fairchild was also responsible for 131 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: a pretty important piece of audio equipment, the fair Child compressor, 132 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 2: which is another classic audio device that exists in plug 133 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 2: in form today. It's all full of vacuum tubes and 134 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: this is that kind of a sacred cow of studio tech. 135 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love the tubes, man, love to see it. 136 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 2: This. 137 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so fair or the Channel F we should say, 138 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: has color graphics. It can accept cartridges, unlike all the 139 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: other TV games systems on the market, and that's exactly 140 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: what Atari was working on doing on their own end. 141 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: So eventually RCA releases something called the Studio two. The 142 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: Studio two as built in game pad buttons, it also 143 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: takes cartridges. Magnavox, not to be outdone, comes out with 144 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: the Odyssey two that has a built in keyboard that 145 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: lets you write your own game software. That's crazy. And 146 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: a couple of other companies also again got into the race, 147 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: places like Bally and Allied Leisure. And you know, we 148 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: were talking a little off air about something we also 149 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: see in the early days of the automotive industry or 150 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: appliance manufacturers. A lot of the video games are coming 151 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: from companies that already had the ability to manufacture electronics. 152 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 2: It a social step. Yeah, like RCA as an example, 153 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 2: a company that was responsible for a lot of innovation 154 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: involving you know, record playback like LPs and other you know, 155 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 2: pro and consumer audio products. 156 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: And so we're back to Atari. It's nineteen seventy seven. 157 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: You can get the twenty six hundred with all kinds 158 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: of fun stuff, joysticks, two paddles, uh, the cartridge Combat 159 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: which comes packaged with it, and this Combat cartridge gives 160 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: you not one but two games Tank and Jet Fighter. However, 161 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: you're going to have to be a really good kid 162 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: to get one of these for Christmas. It cost one 163 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty nine dollars and ninety five cents. We 164 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: returned to the inflation calculator. 165 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: That'll be a boop. Please. 166 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: One hundred and eighty nine dollars ninety five cents nineteen 167 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: seventy seven is one thousand, nine dollars and thirteen cents. 168 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 2: And that is a tall order today for any home 169 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 2: gaming the system. This is like early cam quorder type 170 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 2: prices prohibitively expensive. I mean even like the switch to 171 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: which people bulked at was you know, I think five 172 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 2: hundred dollars. 173 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: Right, and how much is a PS five. 174 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: Probably there's smaller versions of them now that are closer 175 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 2: to three hundred max. 176 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 3: I think they're still in the four. They just went 177 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 3: up in price four hundred. 178 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: Did they ever come out with a smaller form factor 179 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 2: one or are they still big honkers. 180 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 3: They've just come up with a bigger one pro. 181 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. 182 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 2: This does what higher res video memory. 183 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 3: As opposed to. Okay, so according to the Google AI, 184 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 3: you can get the slim with not a actual disc, 185 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 3: or you can get the standard. You can get the 186 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 3: digital edition for five Yeah, you can get a pro. 187 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 3: You can get a regular one standard disc for five hundred, 188 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 3: and you can get a pro for seven hundred and fifty. 189 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 2: Okay, but even that's well below you know, grand Yeah, 190 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: yeah exactly. 191 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: It also, by the way, not to sound like I 192 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: could mudgine shouting at the sky, but do get the 193 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: one that can do physical media. If you have the ability, 194 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: always go for physical media. 195 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 2: Yep. What is that that big campaign stop killing games 196 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 2: or something like that? People are really we're speaking of 197 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 2: right to repair and right to own the things that 198 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: you purchase. I say speaking of because we just talked 199 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 2: about that on our sister show stuff. They don't want 200 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 2: you to know. It's most recent episode of strange News. 201 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: It's really becoming a problem where when these gaming companies 202 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 2: no longer want to do online support for games that 203 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: it's almost as though like they're they're taking it away 204 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 2: from you. Absolutely, ephemeral. 205 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 3: Ephemeral in video games is really bad. It's really bad precipation. 206 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 3: I want to give a shot to my friend Meredith 207 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 3: who bought a PS five last year and refuse to 208 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 3: accept any offer that was given to her that did 209 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 3: not come with a disk. And I was like, ah, 210 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 3: good fight. 211 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: There, because you don't really own something and as you 212 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: physically own it. I'm just gonna be honest. 213 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 2: There. 214 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 1: Now, one thing that the Atari twenty six hundred did 215 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: that was brilliant is they included a switchbox so that 216 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: you could play a game on your TV screen and 217 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: then if you wanted to watch television, you just hit 218 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: the switch and now you're back to your regularly scheduled program. 219 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 2: They didn't have multiple inputs on TVs in those days. 220 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 2: You would have had to. It would probably have been 221 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 2: some sort of coax connection, I imagine, And this was 222 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 2: literally just a little junction box that probably maybe would 223 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 2: have been sold separately, but probably was more relegated to 224 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 2: the areas of pro av type worlds. So this would 225 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 2: have been a big deal for them to include this, 226 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 2: and for a lot of people this would have been 227 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 2: new technology. They would have been aware of it. So 228 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 2: another brilliant thing they did, which they weren't unique in this, 229 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 2: but it was brilliant move. They said, well, what if 230 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 2: these folks get bored of the games that come with 231 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: the device, Well we've got the cartridge slot, so all 232 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 2: you have to do is convince your household to let 233 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 2: you buy another game. And that would have been incredibly 234 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: innovative as well. And we're not talking about yet a 235 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: world where there's just like all the focus is being 236 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 2: put into game design, like it was so novel at 237 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 2: this point that like maybe just a handful of games 238 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 2: that were out there would have been enough to keep 239 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: people's attention for long enough to you know, make them 240 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 2: bundles of money, but then to your point bend when 241 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 2: you run out or get tired of those games. Now 242 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: we've got a whole new industry that's opening up in 243 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 2: order to fill that void. 244 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: And with economy of scale, the only thing that's really 245 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: changing about the cartridges is the information on them, so 246 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: they become naturally cheaper to create over time and as 247 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: volume increases. So not all, not every, not every early 248 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: Atari game was an absolute banger. They had some hits, 249 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: they had some missus, They had some ones that were simple, fun, 250 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: kind of novelties. But then they had really cool conversions 251 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: of things like Breakout in nineteen seventy eight, which you 252 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: can tell my cat loves. 253 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 2: Big fan of the Breakout, big fan of classic gaming, 254 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: that cat. This was actually I didn't know this. It 255 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 2: was a coin op arcade cabinet. It was popular, was 256 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: designed by Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs. 257 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: And of course if you want to learn more, you 258 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: can go to some of the sources we've mentioned to 259 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: get under the hood into the nuts and bolts of specs. 260 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 2: Here. 261 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: It's interesting reading, but we have to move on to 262 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: the next beat about the story. 263 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 2: Here's the thing. 264 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: We sound like we might be glazing the Atari twenty 265 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: six hundred a little bit, as the younger folks in 266 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: the crowd would say, But get this, it was not 267 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: an instant hit. 268 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 2: No no, And I'm surely the pricing had something to 269 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 2: do with that. 270 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: I bet man, this would be one of the most 271 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: successful game consoles ever. But because to your point, Noel, 272 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: it was so expensive, it didn't take off immediately. 273 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: But when you also had to educate the public as 274 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 2: to what was possible with these things, because I think 275 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: that folks were mainly still pong brained. 276 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, they were thinking, why would I pay the equivalent 277 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: of more than one thousand dollars to play one game? 278 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: So you had to educate the public, You had to 279 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: market and promote to them. As a result, the twenty 280 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: six hundred didn't really hit the sales numbers they wanted 281 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy seven. In nineteen seventy eight, by the 282 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: end of nineteen seventy eight, they had only sold seven 283 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand machines, and this was despite a 284 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: five million dollar marketing investment by their parent company. 285 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 2: Warn that's a lot. 286 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: The board was not happy. 287 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: I met no, no, no, no, for sure, this was 288 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 2: a problem. So now it's nineteen seventy eight, Nolan Bushnell 289 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 2: has left the company entirely. His version, as we may 290 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 2: be mentioned in the previous episode, that kind of early 291 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 2: spirit of Las Fair punk rock, kind of Silicon Valley 292 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 2: startup mentality this laid back atmosphere, super creative exchange of ideas. 293 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 2: This was not something that the brass wanted to continue. 294 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a culture clash which happens when different 295 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: companies acquire each other. Right, so, no more hot parties. 296 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 2: No more, No more drink and right this is a 297 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 2: known thing. 298 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, no more drink and drug riddled company retreats. The 299 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: corporation border says, look, we hate you guys weird Friday parties. 300 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: We think there should be a more professional dress code. 301 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: And Bushnell says, you guys stink. And he fights with 302 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: the owners and the managers all the time, including a 303 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: stand up shouting match with a Warner executive in front 304 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: of the shareholder board. 305 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 2: Yikes. Yeah, good luck this dude. It's time for him 306 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 2: to go, at least as far as the execs. We're concerned. 307 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, he got his walking papers and then he he 308 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: goes on his story doesn't in there. He goes on 309 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: to participate with a ton of other companies and related 310 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: adjacent fields. But looking back in interviews, we always get 311 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: the sense that he would have loved to stay on 312 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: with Atari. Which it's his book, it's his baby. I 313 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: let's call it his boy. It's his baby you know 314 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: what I mean, his baby dream. Yeah, it's his baby 315 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: boy in a box. And so now it's nineteen seventy nine. 316 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: We've got a new CEO, Ray Kazar, the Max. 317 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 2: Refers to lovingly as the video game Palpatine. Though I 318 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 2: don't know if Max coined that is something that gets 319 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 2: thrown around in gamer circles. 320 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 3: He was not well liked. Let's just say that. 321 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 2: Right, So shake down, nineteen seventy nine, we've got Space 322 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 2: Invaders hitting the scene. I think that's one that you'll 323 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 2: still see around in the bars or on your phone 324 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 2: or on your phone. And by the way, a shout 325 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 2: out to Button Mash in Los Angeles in the Highland 326 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 2: Park area. It is an incredible vintage arcade Wonderland barcade situation, 327 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 2: and they have a lot of these really cool it's 328 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 2: almost like a combination of an arcade in a museum, 329 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: but it's a museum where you can actually play the things. 330 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 2: Really really cool spot if you're ever around that part 331 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 2: of the country. 332 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love an arcade bar. I haven't been in years, 333 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: but there's a spot here in our fair metropolis of 334 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: Atlanta to Georgia called Joystick, which I used to have 335 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: a lot of fun. 336 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 2: Still pop and they do some good Burger pop ups 337 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 2: there too. Yeah, cool spot, you know dad, these great fries. 338 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: Anyway, we're getting close to lunchtime, folks, that dreamy voice. 339 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: Oh great friends. So this is a huge hit. Space 340 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: Invaders becomes just a massive success for Warner because they're 341 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: still pumping marketing money into this product. The home conversion 342 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: of Space Invaders sells two million units for the Atari 343 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: twenty six hundred in nineteen eighty and now the sales 344 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: numbers are starting to double year over year. It hits 345 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: ten million in annual sales in nineteen eighty two. 346 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 2: Mm. That's right. Yeah, just exponential growth, no question about it. 347 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 2: And considering that it, you know, was not a huge 348 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 2: success out of the gate, this is a big deal 349 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 2: and Warner really thinking they've kind of found the secret sauce. 350 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure by nineteen eighty two, Right, some 351 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: of those numbers we just we just kicked there. Atari's 352 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: revenue just from Atari makes up seventy percent of Warner's 353 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,479 Speaker 1: total income. It's bigger than Warner's music, It's bigger than 354 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: Warner's film. It's the Atari twenty six hundred is becoming 355 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: a world wide hit. 356 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the age of Atari. I mean this is 357 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 2: like what you think of when you think of like 358 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 2: the early eighties and gaming culture, right before Nintendo hits 359 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 2: the scene, of course. 360 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: Yeah right, Nintendo looming in the shadows. So this CEO 361 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: that Max also calls suron at times in our research. 362 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 2: Tauran and Palpatine, Yeah, that's secret sauce we were talking about. 363 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 2: He thinks it's got it so good that he can 364 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: kind of, you know, slacken up on some other things 365 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 2: a bit. Not the best move though, right. 366 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, he cuts the R and D department in seventy nine. 367 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: It makes no sense, right, It's like, Wow, this car 368 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: is going is doing great on this road trip. I 369 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: think we should stop paying for gas, yeah, or just 370 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: stop making cars like we already got it. This is 371 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: the only car we'll ever need. 372 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 2: That is not a very forward thinking CEO there. 373 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: No, he's chasing the bottom line in a very strange 374 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: way that a lot of people disagree with. He's adding 375 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: marketing staff to sell the thing they're already making. And 376 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: he might not say it explicitly, but he has an 377 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: internal political motive here. He wants to hamstring the influence 378 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: that Atari's creative team had under Bushnell. 379 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 2: Okay, so he's he's being a little bit petty if 380 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 2: we're being honest here, and certainly it would seem is 381 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 2: not nearly aware enough of all of the looming competition, 382 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 2: thinking that he's got it, this is all that is 383 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 2: ever going to be gaming. He's not looking at it 384 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 2: a big picture. 385 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 3: And did job in it real quick to kind of 386 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 3: point out how Warner Brothers really didn't think this out. 387 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 3: They had post Rayizar from Burlington coat factory. 388 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely definitely a top gaming mind. 389 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: Yes, and that you know, that kind of hopping around 390 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: from leadership role to leadership role is pretty often in 391 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: corporate America. It can't be surprised when you hear a 392 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: fact like that and you're thinking, what, the guy was 393 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: c suite at a coat company and now he c 394 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: suiteed a video game company. It's just always been weird 395 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 1: to me. How how they defy expertise or experience at 396 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: that level of corporate America anyway. 397 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I mean, the argument might be that 398 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 2: a leader at that level should be more focused on 399 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 2: the numbers of it all and doesn't necessarily have to 400 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: have a head for the products. But I don't know. 401 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 2: I think we've seen time and time again that if 402 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 2: there's no passion there and there's no you know, real 403 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 2: vision in a leader like that, that things aren't gonna 404 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 2: they're not going to continue to grow. And you can't 405 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,719 Speaker 2: just look at the numbers and the things that are 406 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 2: happening right now. You need someone that can recognize innovation 407 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 2: and look at the overall landscape and you know, make 408 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 2: smart plays considering those factors. 409 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: And that guy was not. Ray not a good fit 410 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: for Atari. Atari has been rioting off this massive wave 411 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: of success, but arguably, well I'm being diplomatic, historians will 412 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 1: tell us that Ray Kassar's actions set the company up 413 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: for failure. There was a bunch of what Corey douk 414 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: Toro would later call in shitification of Atari. 415 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: Isn't it funny, Ben that like the first big video 416 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 2: game company is an American company with a fake Japanese name, 417 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 2: very Hogan does not a fake Japanese name. I mean, 418 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 2: it's a real Japanese word. But it's just considering that 419 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: we had not yet seen the ultimate takeover of gaming, 420 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 2: you know, but never thought that. 421 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: Is absolutely hilarious. Yeah, it's true. And look, there's some 422 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: of this in popification occurs. There's a lot of low 423 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: quality software running through wild through the marketplace, and a 424 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: lot of it is coming from Atari itself. Because since 425 00:24:55,040 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: the creative team hates Kassar so much, Atari has experience 426 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: serious brain drain. People are leaving the company in droves. 427 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 2: Not to mention that whole resting on the Laurels mentality 428 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 2: surely trickled down in terms of the amount of time 429 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 2: and the resources that would be devoted to developing. So 430 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 2: a perfect example would be the et video game. It's 431 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 2: a great example of an era where like if it 432 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 2: had cool art and it was tied in with some 433 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 2: kind of intellectual property that people understood, then it didn't 434 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 2: have to have any relation to it in the game itself. 435 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 2: Like the Superman game absolute garbage, you know, it just 436 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 2: looks like trash, but the art on the cartridge super 437 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,719 Speaker 2: super vivid. You know we even see that, you know, 438 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 2: into Nintendo early days. 439 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, we also still see that with money grab 440 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: branding efforts. You know, there's a famously not great Mad 441 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: Max Fury Road. 442 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 2: Game never even cross my radar. 443 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: I've just saved you so much time. Cool. So this 444 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: lead us to some strong headwinds, the so called video 445 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: game crash of nineteen eighty three. It hits everybody in 446 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: the business pretty hard. It hits Atari especially hard. Where 447 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: this is you know, the legend that we always love 448 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: to talk about. And Jonathan Strickland ak the quizt loves 449 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: this story too. 450 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 2: There's another episode of tech Stuff about it, for sure. 451 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a cautionary tale. It's a parable for our times. 452 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: They couldn't sell stuff, and things went so disastrously wrong 453 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: that they ended up dumping unsold merchandise in the desert 454 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: and covering it with concrete as though it were nuclear waste. 455 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, YUCKA mountain of video games, and that of course 456 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 2: includes famously, and probably most referenced in this story, the 457 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 2: absolutely abysmal Et, the video game which apparently Max owns 458 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 2: a copy of. 459 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you find it? 460 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 2: Max? I do? 461 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 3: Alice got it for Christmas for me, and I have 462 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 3: been looking all around my room trying to get back 463 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 3: to me. It's somewhere in a drawer of this desk. 464 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 3: It's just a big desk. 465 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 2: I believe, We. 466 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: Believe you man, So look Atari was not just set 467 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: up to come out with a next gen console a 468 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: successor to the twenty six hundred. They were definitely going 469 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: to do it had the execs not interfered, but Warterer 470 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 1: was just fixated on selling the existing hardware, not innovating, 471 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: like we were saying earlier. 472 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 2: Correct. And there, you know, there was the aforementioned brain 473 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 2: drain and the Atari division just kind of having been 474 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 2: segmented up in an odd way with different divisions almost 475 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 2: operating at like cross purposes. You know, we've got on 476 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 2: a computer arcade and game console divisions working independently but 477 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 2: without talking to one another. So they're almost like yeah again, 478 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 2: like competing with themselves in a very counterproductive way. 479 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: And doing redundant projects. Right there, they're doing double work. 480 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: So there were different versions of the twenty six hundred, 481 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: including things like the fifty two hundred, but they they 482 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: were small improvements. They weren't anything significantly new. This is 483 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: one of the criticisms you sometimes see with Apple post 484 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: Steve Jobs, right where they say, hey, we've got a 485 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: new thing. Don't worry, we've made the ports even more inconvenient. 486 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, or you know, largely things that could be 487 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 2: accomplished with a software update. Yeah. 488 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point, because Atari's competitors in home 489 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: computing are coming out with more and more fascinating, increasingly 490 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: sophisticated machines like the old Commodore sixty four it's cool name. 491 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 2: Which are still really popular today. The early chiptune kind 492 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 2: of creation, like audio production could be accomplished on Commodore 493 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 2: sixty four, which is that classic early video game kind 494 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 2: of arpeggiated beat boop kind of sound. People still enjoying 495 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 2: our Commodore sixty one for making kind of vintage sounding music. 496 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,479 Speaker 1: And here we see the so called PC master erase 497 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: of gamers begin to emerge, because now people are going 498 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: away from cartridge based dedicated gaming machines to home computers 499 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: which can do a bunch of stuff and also play 500 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: games with you. 501 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 2: We're talking the early days of like real time video 502 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 2: and things like that. And just like you know, they 503 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:34,719 Speaker 2: just had a much more expandable set of hardware in 504 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 2: these computers, so you could upgrade them, update them, etc. 505 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 2: Where as the consoles were just sort of static. 506 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the twenty six hundred is starting to 507 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: fall from grace. It's looking increasingly obsolete along in the tooth. Yeah, 508 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: the sad part is here. The bittersweet part is that 509 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: Atari is still cranking out pretty awesome games even as 510 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: the home console begins to lag in popularity. They have 511 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: games from the seventies to eighties that are classics. Asteroids, 512 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: lunar Lander, Oh gosh, there are a ton centipede. 513 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 2: We could just keep naming them. Yeah, Senap is still cool. 514 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 2: I love those those flat like screen on top consoles 515 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 2: that you'll see are cabinets they you'll see sometimes and bars. 516 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: Like Gatika Galaga, Galagha, Gadiga is the film that's. 517 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 2: The movie about the theme like what the spoke gene 518 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 2: splice entered gene editing, Yeah, eugenics corporate. 519 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: So now, as we've teased a little bit, Atari is 520 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: at this point competing with other Titans in the arcade 521 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: game of games, Nintendo, Sega, Konami. But Atari's games are 522 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: still holding their own people like them. So holten consoles 523 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: may not be as popular for Atari as they once 524 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: were for a few years, but if you go to 525 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: an arcade, some of your favorite games are going to 526 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: be Atari creations. 527 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 2: Which is interesting considering the cut in R and D 528 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 2: so I'm a little Yeah, obviously there was still some 529 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 2: good stuff coming out of Atari, and to your point, Ben, 530 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 2: earlier segmented divisions, it would maybe seem that some of 531 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 2: the best innovations were still happening in the arcade division. 532 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I agree with you there. You know, it's 533 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: strange too, because to your point about the segmentation, having 534 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: one division of Atari that just does home video game stuff, 535 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: having one that just does computers, having one that just 536 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: does arcades, they end up being poisonous to each other 537 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: because Atari makes the arcade less popular. 538 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 2: Well that's funny too, Ben, because I think we are 539 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 2: all old enough to remember when the quality of games 540 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 2: you would see in our caide aids was higher than 541 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 2: what could be achieved on home consoles. And it wasn't 542 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 2: until a few generations later on console that you started 543 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: to see ports of those arcade games that were, Wow, 544 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 2: it's almost as good as the arcade version. So obviously 545 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 2: there was innovation going on in game design, but they 546 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 2: were pump pushing all of that into the arcade because 547 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 2: they could have bespoke, you know, proprietary hardware in those 548 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 2: that wouldn't fit in the home console version. 549 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, put and I think a lot of us, 550 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: and not to date myself too are but I think 551 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: a lot of us in the audience probably still remember 552 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: that astonishing moment where you get you know, Mortal Kombat or. 553 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 2: Street Fighters, the psycond Genesis. 554 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you say, wait, you mean I don't 555 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: have to have a bunch of quarters to play this. 556 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: I can play it all the time. 557 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 2: And they still didn't look identical. They were. They were 558 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 2: a little little, little shaggier let's just see, right. 559 00:32:54,520 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And so people started discovering their gay at 560 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: home on their television sets. And this drew a lot 561 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: of criticism from Nolan Bushnell. He had some very strong 562 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: words to say about. 563 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 2: This, yes, specifically about Warner, who he had clearly had 564 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 2: some public beef with. Under Warner, it committed suicide, Yeah, intense. 565 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 2: It wasn't homicide. It was self inflicted stupidity. What you 566 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 2: had was a bunch of record guys thinking they knew 567 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 2: what the game business was about. Warner obviously big music 568 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 2: conglomerate as well. I could catalog the screw ups they made. 569 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 2: I would have liked to have taken Atari to another level. 570 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 2: If I could go back in time, I would not 571 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 2: sell to Warner. Yeah, he's got that kind of fu money. 572 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 2: He can say this kind of stuff without fear of, 573 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 2: you know, retribution. 574 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: He's probably literally in the interview, he's probably counting money. 575 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 3: Yes, don't forget all that chuck and cheese money he had. 576 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, Charles e cheese, Charles Entertainment cheese. And 577 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: so Warder is having a tight spot. They're they're going 578 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: through a tough time. Atari's dying and they run away. 579 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: They sell the home computing bit of the Atari business 580 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four to the founder of Commodore. He 581 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: renames it Atari Corporation. That could be confusing. They held 582 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: onto the arcade division now called Atari Games for a 583 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: little bit longer, but ultimately they sell that as well 584 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: to Namco in nineteen eighty five. 585 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 2: Namco is still a huge concern in games. But didn't 586 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 2: they do wait Bandai Bandai Namco is Elden ring right, Namco. 587 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 2: They're huge, and you know there's tons of titles that 588 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 2: they make that you will see in some of those 589 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 2: Japanese arcades. So you're talking about ben or places here 590 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 2: in Atlanta, like like Round One, which I think is 591 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 2: in other cities as well. In other other parts of 592 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 2: the country. 593 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: I think you're right, and we're going to have so 594 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: much fun when we convinced accounting to pay for us 595 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: to go to Japan. 596 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 2: Hey man, I'll go on my own steam with you anytime, dude. 597 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 2: I'm really excited. We've got a trip planned with the 598 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:09,240 Speaker 2: kid for their eighteenth birthday. 599 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's right, that's cool. Maybe we can meet 600 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: up there. 601 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 2: Sure. 602 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,280 Speaker 1: And so now we see a bunch of horse trading 603 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: on these names this ip. A group of employees buys 604 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,760 Speaker 1: Atari games from Namco. They go on they make stuff 605 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: like paper Boys San Francisco Rush. They it's kind of 606 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: paper Boys cool. It's kind of like what happened to 607 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,919 Speaker 1: us with how stuff works back in the day, where 608 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of different parent companies were acquiring different pieces. 609 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 2: And they wanted this bit or that bit. Honestly too, 610 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 2: it's sort of about It's not that far off from 611 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 2: what's going on with a huge bid for Warner right 612 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 2: now from Netflix in Paramount. Like I think part of 613 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 2: the deal is like Netflix or versus, Paramount only wanted 614 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 2: like certain parts of it and that they did not 615 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 2: necessarily want, like the television division or like some of 616 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 2: the camel properties or whatever. I forget exactly the way 617 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 2: it parses out. But when you've got these kind of acquisitions, 618 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 2: there are going to be sort of piecemeal kind of 619 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,280 Speaker 2: breakups of the overall corporation. 620 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a common practice, right, And Atari goes through 621 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: a lot of this. Their golden age is officially over, 622 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: but the nostalgia and the fascination remains, So we don't 623 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: have to get two into the weeds other than to 624 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: summarize it by saying, a lot of stuff got sold 625 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: and parceled out, and then a lot of things that 626 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: those Atari descendants, we could call them, a lot of 627 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: stuff they made gets passed by by other companies. They 628 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: have some failures with some of their other systems that 629 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: they try to roll out, like the links that was 630 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: here and gone. 631 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 2: Well, I think, and a lot of that was in 632 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 2: response to, you know, a new boom in home consoles 633 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 2: once you started, you know, inching towards the sixteen bits 634 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 2: systems of the early nineties. So after being dormant for 635 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 2: a while, Atari was trying to get back in the 636 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 2: game that they essentially started. But they'd been Mega no 637 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 2: pun intended passed over by the competition, including the Sega 638 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 2: Master System soon to be the Mega Drive. Yeah. 639 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: And the real last nail in the coffin for Atari 640 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 1: is the Atari Jaguar. It was pretty impressive for me, 641 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,879 Speaker 1: number ninety three, Yeah, I remember sixty four bits first 642 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: of its kind. It looks really weird. It was very 643 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: powerful technically speaking, but it had ad a Jankie controller, 644 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: there was a lot of software support, and the Super Nintendo. 645 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: So the Supernintendo was the Coca Cola. Sega Genesis was 646 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: the Pepsi. 647 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And after this massive failure is sort 648 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 2: of the death knell of Atari as we know it, 649 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 2: and it kind of descended into, as I've don the 650 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 2: ign piece we referenced, corporate purgatory. You certain you surely 651 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 2: will still see like Atari branded stuff like T shirts 652 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 2: and sort of nostalgia bait products. So whoever owns the 653 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 2: IP of that stuff is still making a few bucks 654 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,399 Speaker 2: at like game stops and you know five below, right, 655 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,879 Speaker 2: But I believe at this point the remaining the name, 656 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 2: the branding, and the remaining assets were sold to a 657 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 2: electronics company primarily known for making hard drives called JTS. 658 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then JTS gets bought other companies through around 659 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,839 Speaker 1: the world get into buying up. As you said, kind 660 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: of the ip of Atari, the idea of Atari. And 661 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 1: then we get to January twenty thirteen, Atari filed for bankruptcy. 662 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: Yet again, as of the day we're recording on January fifteenth, 663 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, nobody is stepped up to. 664 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 2: Buy the name yet, got it? 665 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: Ok? Yeah, and so passes a legend. Hats off, Thank 666 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: you for all the beautiful memories Atari, everybody who worked there, 667 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,280 Speaker 1: and thank you for launching a thousand ships pressure entertainment. 668 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 2: Well, and Bushnell still has more to say about it. 669 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 2: Concerning Atari's place in the modern gaming landscape, he said, absolutely, 670 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 2: Atari could be competing with Xbox and PlayStation today. I 671 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,920 Speaker 2: would have liked to have taken Atari to another level 672 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,360 Speaker 2: if I could go back in time again. Wouldn't have 673 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 2: sold to Warner, take the company public, raise money that way? 674 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 2: I think I should have just taken a vacation. Yeah, Okay, Well, hindsight, 675 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 2: my guy. 676 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, we've all been there on a much smaller level, Dolan, 677 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 4: And look, this did shape the business of video games, 678 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 4: the idea of video games, and even if Atari is 679 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 4: not what its creator originally envisioned. 680 00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: It has an inarguably important place in history, and we 681 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: can't thank our super producer and research associate mister Max Williams, 682 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: Max Magnavox Williams enough for uh for getting in the 683 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: in the trenches of the research here man O Man, 684 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: Thanks Magnetvox Max, and big big thanks to our composer 685 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: Alex Williams, who I was supposed to hang out with 686 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:20,839 Speaker 1: him a little bit earlier, but I think we had 687 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: we had some different projects to work on, so Alex, 688 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: we might have to hunt you down in Mexico. 689 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 2: I think he's around for a little bit longer, but yeah, 690 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 2: I did get to catch him once. We did a 691 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 2: yoga together and it was delightful. Huge thanks to Christo 692 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 2: Frasciotas and Eive, the Jefickos, both here in spirit. Jonathan 693 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 2: strick Land the quiz or you Little so and so 694 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 2: a Jabahama, Jacobs is the. 695 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: Puzzler, Doctor Rachel Big, Spinach Lance Big. Thanks to the 696 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:44,839 Speaker 1: rude dudes of Ridiculous Crime. 697 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:45,760 Speaker 2: If you dig. 698 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 1: Us, you'll love them. Beat Bop Boot, Beat Boot, That's 699 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:49,760 Speaker 1: the show. 700 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 2: You'll see you next. Books For more podcasts from my 701 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 2: Heart Radio at the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 702 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows.