WEBVTT - Sean 'Diddy' Combs Cleared of Top Charges 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.000 This is Bloomberg Law, with June Grossel from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:13.160 After more than six weeks of sometimes graphic and emotional testimony, 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:18.560 the jury deliberated about thirteen hours before acquitting Sean Diddy 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:23.680 Comb's of the most serious charges against him, racketeering, conspiracy, 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:27.920 and sex trafficking charges relating to allegations that he used 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:32.280 his money, power and physical force to manipulate his girlfriends 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:36.640 into hundreds of drug fueled sex marathons. The jury only 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:41.000 convicted Combs of the lesser charge of transportation to engage 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:45.600 in prostitution, so instead of facing a life sentence, Combs 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:49.320 is facing a maximum prison sentence of ten years and 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:53.800 likely much less than that. After the verdict was read, 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.560 Combs put his hands together and mouthed thank you to 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.240 the jurors. He got down on his knee, his head bowed, 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:05.160 apparently in prayer. As the jurors left the courtroom, his 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.959 relatives in the audience applauded him and his lawyers, some 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.160 of whom had tears in their eyes as he was 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:14.760 led out of court. My guest is former federal prosecutor 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:19.560 Robert Mintz, a partner maccarter in English. Bob apparently, Combs, 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.040 his relatives, and his lawyers all thought that this was 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.959 a win, despite the fact that he is facing some 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:26.920 prison time. 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.720 Given the charges he was potentially facing, which included up 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.600 to life in prison for the racketeering conspiracy and a 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.319 minimum sentence of fifteen years to life for sex trafficking, 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.640 the fact that he was only convicted of two counts 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:47.120 of transportation to engaging prostitution can't be viewed as anything 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:49.960 other than a win by the defense and a bitter 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:51.520 loss for prosecutors. 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:57.760 Let's go through the charges. So the top count racketeering conspiracy, 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.280 and the charge has historical life been used to take 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:06.320 down mob bosses like John Gotti. Did the prosecutors overcharge 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:07.880 him with this count? 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:10.440 Well, I think that's going to be the question that 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.440 prosecutors will have to ask themselves when they look back 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:16.440 on this case, whether or not it was overcharged with 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:20.160 the Rico conspiracy. Now, the Rico conspiracy, as you say, 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:24.760 has been used traditionally in order to prosecute organized crime figures, 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.120 but it has been used more broadly in recent years 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:31.160 and was used in a high profile case just a 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.640 couple of years ago in the r. Kelly case where 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.320 that hip hop artist was also charged with rico and 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.720 sex trafficking in twenty twenty one, and in that instance 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:45.040 prosecutors did get a conviction. But here jurors ultimately concluded 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:50.600 that the rico conspiracy was overcharged, that the prosecution did 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:54.120 not meet the burden of showing that Sean Combs had 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:58.720 used his business empire as a vehicle in order to 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.240 commit further out at and in order to force his 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:07.800 former girlfriends into performing sexual acts against their will. 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:13.040 Bob, when a prosecutor overcharges, does that give the defense 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.799 an opening to, you know, to get the jury to 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.200 doubt the whole case, that it's all exaggerated. 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.919 Well, that's ultimately where this case turned. It was really 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.639 an argument by the defense that although mister Combe had 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:30.839 committed some abhorrent acts, they had the video of him 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.320 picking Passi Ventura by the elevator bank out in Beverly 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:38.640 Hills that was undeniably bad behavior and painted mister Combs 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:41.320 in a very negative light. But when that was held 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:45.800 up against the more serious charges of racketeering conspiracy, which 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:51.720 included certain criminal acts such as forced labor, bribery, obstruction 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.800 of justice, all of that was thrown in and basically 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.720 prosecutors were staying that he uses vast empire that he 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.480 built up over many years simply as a means of 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:06.280 forcing these ex girlfriends to continue to perform these sexual 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.119 acts against their will, and all the while they were 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.760 coerced into doing this. The defense was able to effectively 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:17.280 pick that apart by showing text messages from both of 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.360 the victims which at various times suggested that they had 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:25.359 participated in these acts willfully, that they were not coerced, 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.280 that they could have left but chose not to, And 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.320 ultimately I think that was the downfall for the prostitution's case. 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:36.200 It really ultimately turned on whether they believed that the 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:40.040 victims were actually trapped in this relationship and had no 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:43.320 way out and were literally forced to commit these acts, 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.479 or whether this is more complex than that, and the 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:50.160 defense was able to show that these relationships, while toxic, 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.000 while not healthy, and while it involved bad behavior by 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.920 mister Holmes, didn't rise to the level of racketeering conspiracy. 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.960 The jury said yesterday afternoon that it was unable to 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:07.159 reach a verdict, a unanimous verdict on the racketeering conspiracy 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:12.320 charge because there were jurors with unpersuadable views on both sides. 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:17.159 But today, after an hour of deliberations, they came to 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:21.680 a unanimous verdict on that charge. Do you think that 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.680 with the long weekend ahead, the jurors who wanted to 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.800 convict on that charge sort of caved. 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.040 Well, it's impossible to know really what goes on in 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.600 the jury room. You don't know the dialogue between and 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.279 among the jurors, the conversations that are going on. But 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.280 it did seem like the fact that they were stuck 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:46.000 on this most serious charge suggested to at least some 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:49.880 observers that they found a guilty verdict on some of 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:53.800 the lesser charges, including perhaps the sex trafficking. But it 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.000 turned out that they only convicted on the most minor charges, 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:00.920 and they did reach a decision before the long holiday weekend. 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:05.120 That's not unusual. Juries like to go home for weekends. 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.359 They like to put this case behind them. But on 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.120 the other hand, when you were the prosecution, you're sitting 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.200 there thinking that was a seven week trial. We produced 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.400 over thirty witnesses, and the fact that juris came back 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:20.600 in only two days with a verdict suggested that they 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:24.360 moved very quickly through this process looking at the evidence 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:27.360 and reaching a verdict in a way that prosecutors are 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:28.440 certainly disappointed with. 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:34.120 So the two sex trafficking acquittals which stem from allegations 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:38.320 that Combs coerced to women his former girlfriend, Cassie Ventur 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.640 and a Jane Doe into these so called freak offs, 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:47.279 and Ventura testified over four days some very emotional testimony. 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:49.560 I mean, you refer to this, but did the jurors 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:50.800 just not believe her? 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.880 It's hard to say exactly what they were thinking. That 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:58.839 testimony was compelling, That testimony had to be very emotional 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.000 for juris to it through, and yet at the end 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.760 of the day they did not believe that she was 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:10.560 necessarily compelled to participate in commercial sex acts through force, fraud, 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.560 and coercion. The key here is there has to be 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:17.600 a link between the force, the fraud, and the coercion 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.240 and the acts of sex, and I think at the 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.200 end of the day the evidence was just not clear 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.720 enough for them to meet that burden. Remember, prosecutors have 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.960 to prove in their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Anything 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.680 less than that will result in an acquittal, as we 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:33.480 saw here. 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.960 And sex trafficking did the charges even fit the facts here? 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:43.400 Aren't people usually charged with sex trafficking when it's unrelated people, 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:48.280 not people in long term relationships like these women in Combs. 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.000 Yeah, that was I think one of the problems too, 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:56.480 because the victims here were involved in these long term relationships, 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.360 and they had written many messages, emails, text messages, other 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:04.120 writings evidencing their love for mister Combs at various times. 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:07.360 The fact that they willingly participated in some of these acts, 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:09.880 the fact that they did things in order to please him, 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.920 and the fact fact that after some of these sessions 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:15.480 they texted him saying that they enjoyed them. And I 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:19.400 think it was very difficult for jurors to necessarily conclude 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.240 that all of this was done against their will, that 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.280 none of it was consensual. And as you say, June, 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:29.160 it's a situation where the sex trafficking charge is typically 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:33.200 brought in an instance where the perpetrator does not have 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.600 a relationship with the victim. Here there was a long 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:40.960 term relationship, one that was very complicated, and also one 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:45.320 in which the victims had benefited financially from their relationship 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:49.079 with mister Combs. So it became I think very difficult 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:53.160 for jurors to sort out the true nature of those relationships. 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.480 I don't think they necessarily disbelieved the victims, but I 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.840 think they ultimately concluded that the fact as presented to 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:03.120 them in court did not meet the elements of the 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:04.480 sex trafficking charges. 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:09.400 So you mentioned the financial settlements. Ventura got thirty million 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:14.040 dollars from Comb's and hotel, and that was used by 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.040 the defense attorney in his closing statements. He called her 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.320 a winner. And I'm wondering how much a huge settlement 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:26.560 like that might affect a jury's view of a witness. 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:29.680 I think it had to affect them, and I don't 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.960 think it necessarily meant that jurors didn't believe what she 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.840 was saying, But I think it fed into the defense's 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:41.320 narrative that this was a complicated relationship, that the relationship 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.560 was toxic. But at the end of the day, there 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:50.040 was responsibility by both parties that created this toxic relationship, 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:53.640 and they ultimately could not conclude that mister Combs should 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.760 be convicted of this very serious charge based on a 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.160 record that was unclear at best. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.520 He was convicted. He was He was convicted of two 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:09.120 counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. That stems from 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.719 allegations that he paid sex workers to come to his 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.680 freak off parties. Tell us about that. That's a felony 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:18.880 violation of the Federal Man Act. 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.160 These were the charges that were really easiest for prosecutors 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.640 to prove, because all they have to show is that 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.520 individual's cross state lines with the intent to engage in prostitution. 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.120 And there was plenty of evidence presented at the trial 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:36.319 that mister Colms had made arrangements for these male prostitutes 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.920 to meet with his girlfriends. He'd bought plane tickets, there 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:43.480 were credit card statements, there were hotel records. These were 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:48.000 the charges that prosecutors were able to prove fairly readily, 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.720 and there wasn't really much of a defense to them. 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.400 I think the defense strategy was to focus on the 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:58.040 more serious charges, which they ultimately succeeded in convincing jurors 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.280 to quit their client on Bob. 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.120 I'm wondering because the jurors found him guilty of the 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:08.280 lowest count, whether some jurors thought this case is overcharge, 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:11.360 let's go for the lowest count, or whether they took 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.800 each charge and considered each one on its own merits. 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:20.120 One thing that you do see sometimes behind the curtains 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.760 in jury deliberations is what it's called a compromised verdict. Now, 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.320 there's no way to know whether that happened here or not, 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.720 but you do sometimes have jurors on one side who 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.000 want to convict on all counts, jurors on the other 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.200 side who may want to acquit, and ultimately they may 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.960 compromise by convicting on some but not all counts. We 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.480 don't really know whether that happened here, and I'm not 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.800 suggesting that it necessarily did, but that is a phenomenon 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.480 that happened sometimes. We don't know whether that was going 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.880 on here or whether jurors simply went through these counts 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.880 count by count And we're convinced that the sex trafficking 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.400 and the rico conspiracy charges were just as you said, June, 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.200 over charge and did not apply the fact of the case. 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.520 Stay with me, Bob. Coming up next on the Bloomberg 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.840 Laws Show, I'll continue this conversation with former federal prosecutor 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.960 Robert Mintz. We'll talk about the defense strategy and how 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:17.600 it won the jurors over despite not presenting any witnesses. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:23.920 I'm June Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg. Sean did 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.600 he Combs dropped to his knees and prayed in the 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.720 courtroom after he was acquitted today of sex trafficking and 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:35.000 racketeering charges that could have put him behind bars for life. 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:39.880 The hip hop mogul was convicted of lesser prostitution related offenses. 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:44.480 He still faces prison time, but likely much much less 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.520 than the ten year maximum. I've been talking to former 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:52.680 federal prosecutor Robert Mintz, a partner Macarter in english Combe's defense. 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:55.960 Did it take a huge risk by deciding not to 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.800 put on any witnesses at all and to rely on 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:05.360 the cross examinations of the prosecution's witnesses, which sometimes went 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.320 on longer than the direct examinations. 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:08.520 No. 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.920 I think from the very start the defense strategy was 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.760 always to win their case through cross examination. I think 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.880 they correctly sized the case up and knew that it 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:21.160 was going to turn on the testimony of the two 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.760 victims and how compelling they were, and that by adding 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.160 witnesses for the defense it was only going to complicate 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.640 the case and create a more complex narrative for them 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.440 to have to convince cures ask exactly what was going 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.880 on here. They wanted the case ultimately to be about 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.760 these two victims and to show that the relationship that 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.760 they were in with mister Colmbs over many years was 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.840 one in which they gained financially, one in which they 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.400 willingly participated. In no doubt, they were ups and downs 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.320 in those relationships, and there were some domestic violence that 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.040 went on, and the defense readily admitted that. But the 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.200 question is did it really rise to the level of 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:02.520 racketeering conspiracy. Defense placed a large set that the jurors 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:06.080 would ultimately answer that question in the negative, and ultimately 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:06.760 they prevailed. 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.000 The defense also took the tact of saying, you're not 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.120 going to like him. He is a drug user, he's 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.880 guilty of domestic violence, but he's not a sex trafficker. 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.720 And the women were willing participants. 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.960 Make no mistake, the defense had a tall order here 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.760 because they were presenting a defendant to the jury who 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.200 was not necessarily all that likable, a defendant who engaged 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:36.160 in some reprehensible conduct, who was on video beating up 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:41.560 his girlfriend, who at times had used controlling and threatening language, 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.840 so he wasn't particularly likable. In the way he was 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.280 presented to the jury, which is why I think they 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.120 decided ultimately to not have him take the stand. But 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.040 the focus of the case from the defense standpoint was 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.120 going to be more on the victims and really trying 0:14:56.160 --> 0:15:00.400 to show jurors that the government had overcharged this case. 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:04.960 They presented this as a case of lifestyle versus criminality, 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:09.120 and ultimately all those of the lifestyle that I doubt 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.880 many jurors could really relate to. It was something that 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.720 they were willing to accept in the sense that they 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.240 did not believe that much of the conduct that the 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:20.560 government had put on during the course of the trial 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:22.160 amounted to criminal conduct. 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.040 Yeah. I mean, so the government pulled out all the stops, 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.880 they had all kinds of witnesses. Do you think they 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.640 did something wrong or they missed something, or was just 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:33.480 a question of overcharging. 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.800 I think from the very beginning this was going to 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:41.240 be a difficult case for prosecutors, and prosecutors really bet 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.520 the entire case on the testimony of their victims. They 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.360 were hoping that these victims would come across as credible. 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.600 I think they were hoping that in this day and age, 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.560 jurors would be sensitive to the fact that there can't 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:59.760 be abusive relationships where women are assaulted but don't necessarily 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.040 leave their partners, and that doesn't mean that the acts 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.200 were consensual. There was a lot of complexity here that 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:10.160 I think the prosecution was hoping that curs could sort out, 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:14.000 and it simply turned out that yours were not buying 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:17.040 everything the government was trying to argue in terms of 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:21.080 who mister Combs was and what kind of criminality he 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:22.200 ultimately engaged in. 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.080 So technically he faces ten years on each of the 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:30.680 transporting counts, but realistically, how much time do you think 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:31.760 the judge will give him. 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.440 Well, the judge is certainly going to take into account 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:36.640 the fact that mister Combs has already been in jail 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.800 for about a year, and he'll get credit for that 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:43.320 time serves. In terms of the two counts conviction, it's 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:47.280 highly likely that those will run concurrently, which means they 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.480 will run at the same time, so he won't be 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:53.560 facing twenty years. Really, the maximum sentence here will be ten, 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.000 but I don't think he'll even get that. The Federal 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.800 sentence in guidelines, which give judges guidance as to what 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.240 type of sentence they should hand down are going to 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.959 come out much lower than the ten years. And at 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:06.439 the end of the day here this is really up 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.399 to the judge. The judge has complete discretion, has to 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.680 decide what the appropriate sentence is here, and I think 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.080 that he will sentence mister Colmbs to some time in prison, 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.400 but it's not going to be anything close to ten years. 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.160 Do you think there's some added pressure on the judge 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.840 because of all the publicity this case has gotten, you know, 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.400 pressure not to let Combs off too lightly. 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.800 Well, the judge is not supposed to consider outside pressure 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:33.800 as you do. The judge is supposed to look at 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.679 the facts and all the circumstances. He sat through the trial, 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.720 he heard all the testimony, he heard from all the victims, 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.639 and he heard the defense arguments, and he has to 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.800 fashion a sentence that he believes is ultimately fair. But 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.439 I think as a practical matter, the judge can't ignore 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:52.040 the more serious charges that the defendant faced here and 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.600 the high publicity factor that was associated with this case. 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:57.320 So I think the judge is going to have to 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.800 balance all these factors, and I do think the judge 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:02.800 will sentenced mister Colmbs to some time in jail, but 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.560 they think it will be far less than the maximum 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.000 ten years that he's facing on each of the accounts. 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.639 Combs's lawyers said he'd likely face twenty one to twenty 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:16.320 seven months, but prosecutors said he'd likely face fifty one 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:20.160 to sixty three months, and he's already served nine months 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:24.639 because he's been jailed since his arrest. So we shall see. 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.440 But as you say, the final decision is the judges, 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.280 and the judge denied him bond and made the decision 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.640 to keep him in jail while he awaits sentencing. 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.960 The fact that the judge refused bail here and decided 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:42.120 to keep mister Combs in jail pending sentencing, I think 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:46.320 reflects the very serious nature of these charges. Even though 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.720 he was ultimately not convicted of the most serious charges, 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.760 He's alreays spent a year in jail. He'll get time 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.560 served for this additional time between the time of conviction 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:01.640 and his sentencing, so ultimately it doesn't really work against him. 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.600 But I think the judge here is trying to convey 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.959 the fact that although he was ultimately convicted only of 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:12.080 the two less serious charges, the judge still considers this 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.879 a very serious case and still considers the conduct for 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:21.320 which mister Colmes was convicted as serious conduct that creates 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:22.600 a danger to the community. 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.280 Thanks so much, Bob. That's Robert Mints of maccarter and 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:29.879 English and in other legal news today. In a courtroom 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:34.360 in Boise, Idaho, Ryan Colberger pleaded guilty to the brutal 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:38.679 stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students in twenty 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.320 twenty two in order to avoid the death penalty. The 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:47.200 killings initially baffled law enforcement and unnerved the rural college 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:51.240 town of Moscow. Colberger was arrested in Pennsylvania, where his 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:55.000 parents lived, after investigators recovered a Q tip from the 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:58.840 garbage at his parents' house to match Colberger's DNA to 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:03.159 genetic material from a knife sheath found at the crime scene. 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.440 At the time, Colberger had just completed his first semester 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.919 as a graduate student in criminal justice at Washington State. 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:15.440 In the two years since his arrest, his attorneys unsuccessfully 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:19.639 attempted to bar prosecutors from seeking the death penalty and 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:23.800 challenged DNA evidence, but a plea deal was their final 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.280 alternative to spare his life. Before the start of a 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:31.800 trial in August Colberger remained impassive as Judge Stephen Hipler 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:35.360 questioned him, and he admitted to breaking into a rental 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.920 home through a kitchen sliding door and killing the four 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:42.359 friends who appeared to have no connection with him. 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:48.040 On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, in Leyta County, State 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:53.680 of Idaho, kill and murder Madison Mogan a human being? 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:54.679 Yes? 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.000 And did you do that willfully and lawfully, deliberately and 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:00.760 with premeditation and melissauthorpe of poor thought? 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:01.280 Yes? 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:06.800 Did you Honor about that same date in Moscow, Idaho, 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:10.720 kill and murder Kayleie Gonzalez a human being? 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:11.679 Yes? 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.520 And did you do that wilfully, unlawfully, deliberately and with 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:17.720 premeditation and malicapport thought? 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:18.560 Yes? 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.600 And did you on that same date in Moscow, Idaho 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:26.480 kill and murder Xana Kernodle pardon me a human being? 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:27.560 Yes? 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:30.639 And did you do that wilfully and lawfully deliberately, with 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:32.520 premeditation and malicipport thought. 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:33.359 Yes? 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:38.720 And then on or about November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:43.320 again in Leytoc County, Idaho, did you kill and murder 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:44.879 Ethan Chapin a human being? 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:45.560 Yes? 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.560 Did you do that willfully, unlawfully, deliberately, with premeditation and 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:51.359 malicapor thought yes. 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:55.800 Colberger will serve consecutive life sentences. At least one of 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:59.159 the families opposed the Plea deal, but others supported it, 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:02.679 saying they were ready to begin healing. The motive for 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:06.720 the murder remains unclear, and the murder weapon still has 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.440 not been found. I'm June Grosso. When you're listening to Bloomberg. 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:16.400 This week, the Trump administration said an investigation found that 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:21.080 Harvard University violated civil rights laws in its treatment of 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:26.160 Jewish and Israeli students, further endangering federal funding for the school. 0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:30.880 This ramps up pressure on the country's oldest university, less 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:33.879 than two weeks after President Donald Trump said he was 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.280 nearing a deal with the school following months of attacking it. 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:41.800 Harvard said it strongly disagrees with the government's findings and 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:45.879 said it has made significant strides to combat bigotry, hate 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:49.600 and bias and remains committed to ensuring that Jewish and 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:54.119 Israeli students can thrive on campus. My guest is Ken Marcus, 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:58.040 the founder, chairman and CEO of the Brandeis Center. He 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.960 was the Assistant Secretary of Education for Civil Rights during 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:05.919 the first Trump administration, tell us about the allegations of 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:07.600 the Trump administration here. 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:12.679 The Trump administration is alleging that Harvard violated Title six 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:16.120 of the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four by 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:21.000 tolerating a hostile environment for Jewish students. Title six is 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:26.639 the key federal civil rights statute that provides protection for 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:32.520 students at federally assisted programs and activities against discrimination on 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:35.280 the basis of race, color, or national origin. 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:39.960 So Harvard disputes the government's accounts, and it has said 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:44.600 several times in different settings that it has worked to 0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:46.600 combat anti semitism. 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:50.280 Harvard has promised to take a number of steps to 0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:54.439