1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: Campside Media. 2 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 2: Thanks for coming back. Everyone to Model Wars Episode nine, 3 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 2: a production of iHeart Podcasts and Campside Media. I'm Vanessa Grigoriatis. 4 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 2: So this episode we're talking to some of the women 5 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 2: that we interviewed for this podcast, like Susie Sugarman. She 6 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 2: was a model booker for a long time and she's 7 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 2: got a terrific personality. You'll hear her talk about kamoral 8 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: Lee Simmons, who is the model who is married to 9 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: Russell Simmons. She'll also talk about Carla Brunei, the model 10 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 2: who was later married to Nicholas Sarkozy, president of France. 11 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 2: So Susie specialized in booking models for catalogs, which were 12 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: big business back in the day, obviously back when catalogs 13 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: still came in the mail and that's how we bought 14 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 2: close instead of on the internet. So listen in to 15 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 2: my interview with Susie. What were some of the catalogs 16 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: you were working with and like how much were the 17 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 2: models getting waited? 18 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 3: Just to give you an example of how I created 19 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 3: this and this is why you know, Paul will tell 20 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 3: you like that I was one of the best catalog 21 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 3: bookers in the industry. I would go home to my 22 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 3: doorman building, and every floor I think it had twenty 23 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: something floors. I literally would go to the garbage of 24 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 3: every single floor where they had like the recycling bin, 25 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 3: and I collected every catalog that ever existed, and I 26 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 3: would lug the catalogs to work every day, and I 27 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 3: started pounding the phones to every single catalog and saying, like, 28 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 3: who does your ca how can I you know? Where 29 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 3: do I go? 30 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: And what were some of them, like Delia's or. 31 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 3: We're talking like so many department stores, like Macy's had 32 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 3: stores in like the Midwest. They had it in the 33 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 3: you know, San Francisco, they had it in Atlanta, they 34 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 3: had it in Florida. You know, it wasn't just a 35 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 3: New York market. And like nord Strums and mem and 36 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 3: Marcus and J. C. Penny and then there was Riches, 37 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 3: which was a big department store, and god, there was 38 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 3: so many more stores back in those days. They paid 39 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 3: very like a lot of them paid super well in 40 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: the nineties. I mean, girls were like, on average, like 41 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 3: a low rate would be you know, fifteen hundred to 42 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 3: two thousand a day, and then certain girls you could 43 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 3: get up to like maybe thirty five hundred, you know, 44 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 3: or higher it depending on if they were like a star. 45 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 3: Back in those days, there was no computers, right, and 46 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 3: there was no like cell phones, so it was a 47 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 3: very different time. But I'm telling I tell young people now, 48 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 3: it worked so much better than it works now because 49 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 3: nobody relied on like a text, No one relied on 50 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 3: a you know, on an email. We didn't have that. 51 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 3: So the models actually had to get rolls of quarters 52 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 3: and go to every corner and call in every hour 53 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 3: on the hour to the agency to make sure that 54 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:33,279 Speaker 3: they are not missing. 55 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: A casting and so like who in the time you 56 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: were in with it, you know, who were the top ones. 57 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 3: Girls found out about Paul because he literally was known 58 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 3: to have like polaroids of girls and submit them to magazines. 59 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 3: Like he's literally had a girl in a polaroid and 60 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 3: then put on the cover of a magazine. 61 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: And were you ever like intimidated by them? Like these 62 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: beautiful tall you know, blah blah bla, Like you go 63 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: to a nightclub to get all. 64 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 3: That because all like the club owners loved me, Like everybody, 65 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 3: like you know, knew who I was and they knew 66 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 3: I was coming with the girls. 67 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: Well, but what's the point of having the models at 68 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 2: the party like this is? I think what people don't 69 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,799 Speaker 2: quite understand. It's basically just to make the room look. 70 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 3: Like what's the twofold answer. Back in the nineties, we 71 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 3: needed to bond with our models, and the way you 72 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 3: bonded with your models were like going to dinner, going 73 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 3: out this way. They felt close to their booker and 74 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 3: they weren't looking to like jump to another agency. For 75 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 3: the promoters, of course, if you have models in a 76 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 3: place like, you're going to get the spenders to come 77 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 3: and you know, drop a lot of money buying bottles 78 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 3: or I mean, it's the oldest you know story in 79 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 3: the book, right. I don't remember sneaking anybody in myself, 80 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 3: but I know that back then people didn't even look 81 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 3: twice if like younger girls were coming in you know. 82 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 3: Of course that stopped over the years, but yeah, I 83 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 3: mean I've been to like clubs where I see one 84 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 3: of my seventeen year olds, you know, like asking me 85 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 3: if I wanted to like have champagne at her table. 86 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 4: I was like, what what made it kind of different 87 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 4: than those other agencies like Click and for How would 88 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 4: you describe it as different? 89 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 3: We were like a real boutique agency, and like Paul 90 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 3: and Omar were magic, like they were these two young guys. 91 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 3: Models actually came into the agency and that's what made 92 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 3: it Models such a wonderful agency because we welcomed our 93 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 3: models to come in because sometimes a lot of girls 94 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 3: didn't have places to go in between castings. So like 95 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 3: there were certain agencies that like didn't want their models 96 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 3: to come in. There was certain agencies that are like, no, 97 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 3: we don't bother us. But we were like a big 98 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 3: family and we welcomed the girls and they would come 99 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 3: in and they would bring us coffee and they would 100 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 3: bring us cookies, and we really became like a family. 101 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 3: And that was really due to Paul Fisher because he 102 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 3: really encouraged like us to have the relationships with the 103 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 3: girls and the girls to have the relationship with us. 104 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 3: Paul had represented Naomi in La, We had Kimura, Carla Bruni. 105 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember like some of the girls that 106 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 3: were just you know, Oh, we had Jade who married 107 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 3: Matt Lower. Her real name was Annette, but her model 108 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 3: name is Jade. Everybody was concentrating on the stars quote 109 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 3: unquote stars, but you have all these models that need 110 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 3: to work every day, they need to pay their bills. 111 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 3: I've never been intimidated. I love the girls. They were 112 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 3: like my sisters. I'm still close with, like pretty much 113 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 3: every girl I've ever represented in all these years, especially 114 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 3: a lot of the girls from Models Days are still 115 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 3: like my family. I consider them family. I mean, you know, 116 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 3: you get what you give. 117 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: Right now, we're going to talk to someone you've met 118 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: in earlier episodes. Kara Young. She's the model who was 119 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 2: super hot in the nineties and she lived in this 120 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 2: amazing loft in Soho with a guy named Sante Drazzio. 121 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 2: He was a very well known fashion photographer. They were 122 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 2: good friends with Paul and Caara was modeling for everyone. 123 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: Here's Kara tell us where you grew up and when 124 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: you started being a model. 125 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 4: I was born in San Francisco, California. My parents are 126 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 4: from the South. My mom was from North Carolina and 127 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 4: my father is from Texas and he was. 128 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 5: In the military and they met. 129 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 4: Her mother lived out there, so they moved up there. 130 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 4: So I grew up in San Francisco until I was 131 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 4: Before I was ten, I moved to the East Bay 132 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 4: and I started There was a contest called Look of 133 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 4: the Year that a lot of girls started modeling from. 134 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 4: But I didn't place at all. I was just one 135 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 4: of the random contestants. And this girl that I worked 136 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 4: in the shoe store with her mother said, oh, you 137 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 4: guys should enter this contest. You should be models, and 138 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 4: da da da da, and she entered us in this contest. 139 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 4: And then I actually started modeling from that. So, like 140 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 4: four years ago, this girl contacted me on Instagram and 141 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 4: she says, you're not the car young that worked in 142 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 4: San Valley mall though, right, I go, yeah, I am, 143 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 4: I said, I remember you. Your mom, you know, helped 144 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 4: us start modelish so worked out a bit better for 145 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 4: you than it did myself. But yeah, So I started 146 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 4: in San Francisco, and then I moved to Los Angeles 147 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 4: when I was a teenager with a boyfriend. And then 148 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 4: I moved to New York. I went to Paris and 149 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 4: Milan in New York, all of those places I decided 150 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 4: to go to for six months. But I'm still in 151 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 4: New York, you know, thirty years later. 152 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,479 Speaker 2: I mean San Francisco, I assume was pretty small potatoes. 153 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 2: But what was la modeling scene like then? When how 154 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 2: old were you when you moved there. 155 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 4: So I was a teenager. I was just out of 156 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 4: high school, and it was it was you know, you 157 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 4: you worked pretty consistently in Los Angeles, Like I worked 158 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 4: there and I became like myself and the Scroll, Paula 159 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 4: Barbieri and a bunch of girls started becoming really regular 160 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 4: you know, models and doing everything that they had to 161 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 4: offer there. It was consisted of a lot of commercials, 162 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 4: a lot of a lot of TV little little appearances, 163 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 4: a lot of commercials, a lot of uh, you know, 164 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 4: print like everyday Broadway, may Company, Macy's things like that. 165 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 4: In the Nordstrums we did a lot of So it 166 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 4: was just very catalog nothing. You know. 167 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 5: There was La Style. 168 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 4: If you got into La Style, you thought that you 169 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 4: were like a supermodel, you know, if you got into 170 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 4: that magazine. So that's how that's the level that it 171 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 4: was there. 172 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 2: And was there a sense of like you got to 173 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 2: get to New York or you got to get to 174 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 2: Paris or what were people saying? 175 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 4: So if there, momling was always about people finding you. 176 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 4: There was always scouts. Like even when I which Japan 177 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 4: rum is really young, it was a scout came over 178 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 4: and said, oh you should go to Japan, I think 179 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 4: you'd work there. So when I was in Los Angeles, 180 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 4: the same thing happened to me. A scout's like, what 181 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 4: why are you here doing jello commercials and working for 182 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 4: you know, the main company. Why would you? Why don't 183 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 4: you come to New York where you could you know, 184 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 4: be a big model. And they said, do you just 185 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 4: want to do this until you're thirty years old? And 186 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 4: I was like nineteen, and I said, oh my god, 187 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 4: you think I'll work until I was thirty. I thought 188 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 4: that was like such a compliment, because that's how we were, 189 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 4: you know, back then, that's what you thought. 190 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 2: What about your heritage, descent, ethnicity, being black? Were you 191 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: bookable from the time you were young, or were you 192 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 2: hearing people say, you know, we don't we only have 193 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 2: a slot for one girl like that or something like that. 194 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 4: It's you know, I mean, I was my father's white, 195 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 4: my mother's black, So I always was identified, you know 196 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 4: with I mean, I did it as black person. But 197 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 4: I don't negate my father's role in my life or 198 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 4: my upbringing from him or his heritage. In the slightest way. 199 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 4: I'm very happy my parents got married before it was 200 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 4: legal and it was a statement of racial unity. So 201 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 4: I'll never negate what I am. I know that I 202 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 4: looked different, but other people and everyone always said that. 203 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 4: Everyone always said, even when I was a teenager, or 204 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 4: you look different, what are you? Where are you from? 205 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 4: What are you? What are you? And so I think 206 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 4: that I came into play during a time that people 207 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 4: started to be intrigued with girls who looked more unique. 208 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 4: Was there issues of it? Of course there were. There 209 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 4: was times that they tried to pay us less money. 210 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 4: There was times that there was a time that I 211 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 4: would do two pictures and other girls would do ten, 212 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 4: and that's fine. But then there was a shift in 213 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 4: our business where we started to do just as much 214 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 4: my That's how it was my interpretation. I remember doing 215 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 4: a job with just myself, the DJ, this really big 216 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 4: model at the time, and yeah, asmin Gari and I 217 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 4: was like, whoa is this is crazy? Remember when weed 218 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 4: we like looked at each other. Remember we used to 219 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 4: barely do anything that we're doing everything? 220 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 2: So yeah, what about uh sante? You guys had a 221 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 2: loft that was called Plato's retreat? Is that true? 222 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 5: Yes, we did. We didn't know. 223 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 4: I mean, obviously, when people see things about your behind 224 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 4: your back, which is I'm perfectly comfortable with. I don't 225 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 4: talk amongst yourselves. I don't need to hear everything. But uh, 226 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 4: Stephen Mazell called it Plato's retreat, and we heard I 227 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 4: heard about that later on, you know that he was saying. 228 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 5: He would say, oh, did you. 229 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 4: Guys go to Plato's retreat this weekend? And it was 230 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 4: just funny, you know, And it was. 231 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 2: Just a big loft that had, like you guys had 232 00:13:58,720 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 2: lots of parties. 233 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 4: For me, he lived there with his other girlfriends. So 234 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 4: he's never not had that loft, you know. He's had 235 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 4: that loft since I was in high school. So it 236 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 4: continues to be there. I don't know what goes on 237 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 4: there now, but I changed it when I had a child. 238 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 5: I changed it and I cleared everybody out. 239 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 4: I was like the big party pooper. 240 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 2: And so for you, how did things change as your 241 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: career went on where you said, like, I want to 242 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 2: cover of this magazine, No, I want to be Victoria's secret. 243 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 4: I met this photographer, Wayne Maser, who's a great photographer, 244 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 4: and he said, we were doing these pictures and I 245 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 4: just come to New York and I didn't even think 246 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 4: I lived there yet, but I did. And he said, 247 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 4: did you ever think that you'd be doing beauty for 248 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 4: American Vogue? And I said, yes, I did. That's why 249 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 4: I came here. I didn't come here to do more catalogs. 250 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 4: And so it was a very big deal for me, 251 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 4: and I was very excited about my career. And when 252 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 4: POLLI I could still go to California a lot, you know, 253 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 4: and he knew that I liked that. He knew that 254 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 4: I liked being in touch with my family and being 255 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 4: working there, and so he really helped me. 256 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 2: I mean, there's obviously all sorts of horror stories, you know, 257 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 2: or are you like, well, you have to know how 258 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 2: to navigate. 259 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 4: I mean, it's a predatory world. It was, and it's 260 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 4: not I think it come from Niava, Ta on people's parts. 261 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 4: Like when I moved to Paris, you know, my parents 262 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 4: did it. They didn't even fathom what it was going 263 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 4: to be like for us, you know, they didn't even fathom. 264 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 5: And I had roommates that. 265 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 4: Were fourteen years old, thirteen years old, roommic thre were 266 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 4: in eighth grade. They should not be there. When Christy 267 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 4: Turlington moved to Paris, when she was fourteen years old. 268 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 4: Her mother went with her. No, I've known Christy my 269 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 4: whole life. We grew up together, and her mother went 270 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 4: with her. It didn't she didn't leave her on her own. 271 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 4: She was because there was a stewardess for pan Am. 272 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 4: And so you think that that's not similar to. 273 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 5: She knew, she knew what it was going to be like, and. 274 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 4: It wasn't this kind of thing where everybody was awful. 275 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 4: I mean, I was represented by Jean lu Brennell, and 276 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 4: I had great times with him, and I had not 277 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 4: great times with him. And it's just that's the way 278 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 4: we navigate our lives. Of course, we're going to have 279 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 4: things that are weird and awkward and uncomfortable. And then 280 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 4: I had those when I worked at shoestore, I'd have 281 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 4: a boss that was inappropriate. So is it exclusive to 282 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 4: the modeling or acting world? 283 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 2: Do you remember the word modelizer being used? 284 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 4: No? I don't. 285 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 2: You don't have you ever heard that word? 286 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 4: Though? 287 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 3: Yes? 288 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 4: Okay, familiar. 289 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: We were like bringing up all these old words like promo, sexual, modelizer, 290 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 2: all these like nineties words. Do you remember Skylight? 291 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, so a friend. 292 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: Of mine ran Skylight. She was beautiful Jen Blueman. She 293 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 2: unfortunately passed away, but I remember she used to say 294 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 2: to me, pretty girl problems like pretty like you know, 295 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 2: and there's actually through doing this project, I'm learning like 296 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 2: models are actually quite fragile. 297 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of them are. 298 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 2: But how do you think that through? Like because in 299 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 2: some ways, like you have this great leg up in life, 300 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: which is you're so beautiful, right, like everybody looks at you. 301 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 2: Everybody wants to give you things, But it's a double 302 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 2: edged sword, Like how do you think about that? Like 303 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 2: to be a model that position and. 304 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 4: People also want to take things from you. You know, 305 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,959 Speaker 4: it's I don't I know very little, very few models 306 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 4: who don't support their whole families. No, I don't it. 307 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 5: Yes, it is. 308 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 4: Beauty is a gift, There's no doubt about it. People 309 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 4: can I get in trouble for things that I say, 310 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 4: But there's certain things that look better on certain certain 311 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 4: kinds of people, and people are drawn to that. I 312 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 4: mean they used to you used to be able to 313 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 4: go to Equinox. They would give us a free membership 314 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 4: because they wanted us to go to their gym. That's 315 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 4: how it was, you know, That's that's the people would 316 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 4: compy things because they wanted you to show up in 317 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 4: their restaurant. So sure that it's it's something in life, 318 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 4: but it's not it. You know, it's not everything in life. 319 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 4: And models are fragile, but it's not. I don't know 320 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 4: not one person I know with a problem that problem 321 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 4: didn't exist before their career, whether acting or modeling. It 322 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 4: exacerbated the problem that was already there. 323 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 2: And what exascerbated it, like the long shoots and the 324 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 2: sort of being on call all the time and the weirdom. 325 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 5: No, it's a lonely life. 326 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 4: It's it's a very and that's why Poly like making 327 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 4: himself available to certain models when they were alone. Like 328 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 4: a lot of models end up with guys that are losers, 329 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 4: and that's because those guys are available to constant be 330 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 4: with them. So they they want that or they or 331 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 4: they need that. So I don't need to be with 332 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 4: somebody all the time. I've never I've never needed that. 333 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 4: But other a lot of girls, it is there. But 334 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 4: there's times in my life that I was extremely lonely. 335 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 4: You know, I come from a big family and living 336 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 4: in Paris and not speaking French very well. Uh, it 337 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 4: affected me because I would be alone constantly and constantly, 338 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 4: you know, in Milan alone, in Japan alone. It's and 339 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 4: then you meet people and they become little family for 340 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 4: a while, but at first you are. It is a 341 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 4: very strange experience, you know, to be on your own. 342 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,719 Speaker 5: So that's why I think it happens. 343 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 4: It doesn't make someone necessarily druggy, but you might drink 344 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 4: more because you're on your own. You might do something 345 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 4: because you're lonely. 346 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 5: Sure, but I. 347 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 4: Don't know if you tested the population, if it's there's 348 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 4: more models that have, you know, isolation depression than other people. 349 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 4: I don't know about that. It's possible, but it seems. 350 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 4: I mean the way that I grew up. Half of 351 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 4: my friends are healthy half of them. Some of them 352 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 4: are mess and some of them are fragile. And I 353 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 4: don't I grew up with Christy, but she's an extremely 354 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 4: strong person, always has been since she was a child. 355 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 4: That's just her nature. Not a druggy person, not a 356 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 4: party girl. So that it just happens to some people 357 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 4: that's going to be their stake in life, and sometimes 358 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 4: what they do is going to make it worse. I mean, people, 359 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 4: we're a sexual world, we're a sexual society, society, you're 360 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 4: going to want to be with people. That's normal, you know. 361 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 4: When I first went to Paris, I was prepared for 362 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 4: things that my fourteen year old roommates were not prepared for. 363 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 4: And my fourteen year old roommates hated me because I 364 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 4: wouldn't let them go. 365 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 5: To Central Pay on a boat with some guy. You know, 366 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 5: I wouldn't let them take gifts from people. 367 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 4: And they were like, I don't want to be roommates 368 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 4: with her anymore because she won't let us have fun. 369 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 4: I'm an older sister, so I'm protective in my nature, 370 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 4: but I also know when people are being gross. 371 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 5: Can smell it, you know. But I'm not saying things 372 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 5: didn't happen. 373 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 4: Of course I had. 374 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 5: That's the way I became. 375 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 4: The way I became is because things happened to me. 376 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 4: So it's normal. Yeah, that doesn't mean it's right, but 377 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 4: it's normal. 378 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 2: What were the pictures you did with Dennis Hopper? 379 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 4: So they were of Italian Vogue and we're uh on 380 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 4: the beach and we're like on a like on a 381 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 4: like a day bed, and they're all outdoors. There's one 382 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 4: that I look like I'm pushing up on him. They're 383 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 4: like really sexy pictures. They're beautiful pictures, and he wasn't 384 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 4: a plan for him to be in the picture at all. 385 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 4: We were walking doing these pictures for a Talian vogue 386 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 4: at the Venice Film Festival during the Venice Film Festival, 387 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 4: and I walked up to him and said, do you 388 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 4: want to be in some pictures with me? And he's like, oh, yeah, 389 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 4: of course I will. 390 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 5: So that so like he's in a suit on the beach. 391 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: So he's uh, he's fully. I mean, it's uh, I 392 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 2: don't know. I mean, how do you feel about having 393 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,959 Speaker 2: lost a lot of these people like they've done us 394 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 2: Hoppers and all these people from your past who you know, 395 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 2: like I guess they live on within the photos that 396 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 2: you have, you. 397 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 5: Know, they absolutely do. 398 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 4: There's a lot of people there's like the Tatiana petits 399 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 4: is that it crushes me, you know, like it's it 400 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 4: doesn't seem right that Gail O'Neill is gone. That it 401 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 4: just seems crazy to me that these people that are 402 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 4: young are gone. You know, Yeah, a lot of people 403 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 4: that we did jobs with the pictures with her are gone. 404 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 4: It happened in our industry with makeup that her Brits 405 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 4: is gone. Who's like the sweetest person in the world. 406 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 4: Nobody's more deserving of the career he had than him, 407 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 4: So it is shocking, you know. I mean, my mom 408 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 4: just died two months ago, so okay, that's okay. I 409 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 4: can accept like death. But when some many young guys, 410 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 4: it always breaks my heart, you know, when they're too young, 411 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 4: when there should still be in this world. It's heartbreaking. 412 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 2: You eventually retired from modeling. Why did you do that? 413 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 2: Did you want to do it for a while and 414 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 2: then do it or how did it all happen? 415 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 4: So I met someone and it just became like when 416 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 4: you're when you have your pick of the crop, it's great, 417 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 4: you know, it's life's easier when you are doing Victoria's 418 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 4: Secrets or you're doing jobs in locations that you want 419 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 4: to and then when it becomes harder. I really really 420 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 4: stopped working when I got married, which was twenty years ago. 421 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 4: You know, I will do things, but it's more like 422 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 4: an appearance thing. It's more like a special booking thing. 423 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 4: It's I won't just I'm not trying to. I did 424 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 4: something really recently with Michelle Heady at the Chelsea hotel, 425 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 4: and you know, someone asked me and it's you know, 426 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 4: Michelle Heady. Now all of a sudden, it's trying to 427 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 4: get me to work all the time. Like I'm good. 428 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 4: I like, if you have something cool for us to do, 429 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 4: then I'll be there. But I'm not just I'm not 430 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 4: trying to sit on the streets of Miami or Wisconsin 431 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 4: and do catalog anymore. That's I've did that for a 432 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 4: long time, and I don't you know, I'm not interested 433 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 4: in that anymore. But things were good and I got 434 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 4: a sick ass con. I would love that. I would 435 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 4: love that. 436 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 2: And how many kids do you have? 437 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 4: Two kids? 438 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 2: Two kids? 439 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 3: Wow? 440 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 2: How old are they now? 441 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 4: I have a boy that's twenty nine and a boy 442 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 4: that's seventeen. 443 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 2: Okay, two men, two men, Oh my god. 444 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 4: And my son's a photographer. My my oldest son's a photographer. 445 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 4: Nick Derossi. He was really really good, cool, you know, 446 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 4: working all the time and doing really well. You just 447 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 4: did show week. He went to Italy to assist for 448 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 4: Julia Roberts. He went to Julia Roberts wedding and was 449 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 4: the assistant. So he's been doing it since he was 450 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 4: ten years old. 451 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 5: Assistant, and he had a bunch of jobs. He had 452 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 5: some Wall Street things, he worked restaurants, He had a 453 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 5: bunch of different things that he did. 454 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 4: And then he started taking pictures. Really liked it, and 455 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 4: I was like, I don't want him. 456 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:46,479 Speaker 1: To do that. 457 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 4: I don't want to do it. 458 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 5: And Christy Trillington's like, just let him. 459 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 4: You know, he's excited about it. Just let him do it. 460 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 5: It's not like I, it's letting doesn't exist though. 461 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 4: People do what they want to do. 462 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 2: And so, like, what was it like having kids on 463 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 2: the shoot with you? Was it like it's easy, They're 464 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 2: just in the corner and you get a babysitter to come, 465 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 2: or was it like crazy? 466 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 6: I didn't take him his dad did. I didn't take 467 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 6: him because because my my thing is an illusion, you know, 468 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 6: like even even in the year two thousand when I 469 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 6: did Playboy and I was a mother already in La 470 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 6: the photographer, you know, he got mixed messages from the 471 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 6: way I was looking at him. 472 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 4: It's like, no, I'm this is my job. I know 473 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 4: you think I'm in love with you and always have been, 474 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 4: but that's not that's not the case. No, So I 475 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 4: never took him because of the illusion. I mean I 476 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 4: maybe took him like twice if he was there for 477 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 4: the job something. 478 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 5: But then people get distracted and they. 479 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 4: Think, you know, you're something that you're not like I. 480 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 4: I didn't want to get into the way of that 481 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 4: illusion of you know, being you know, like he teases 482 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 4: me now because he goes, you were so young when 483 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 4: you had me, and you were the young mom, and 484 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 4: now you're an old mom like everybody else. 485 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 2: So what like would you would you have if you 486 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 2: had a daughter? Would you have a model? And what 487 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 2: if so we would you tell me? 488 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 4: It's so funny that you say that, because Gracie Burns, 489 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 4: Christy's daughters modeling a little bit now and I just 490 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 4: saw City the other night and we're talking about Kaya. 491 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 4: But I'm Kaya was born to do that. You know, 492 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 4: even if Cindy wasn't her mother, she would still be 493 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 4: a supermodel. I mean, look she it's crazy how how 494 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 4: she It's crazy how she looks. 495 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 5: I think that. 496 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 4: The industry is more protective now than it used to be. 497 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:32,479 Speaker 2: How do you think it's changed. 498 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 5: I think that. 499 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 4: People are more aware of what happened. There's a lot 500 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 4: of exposure of what happened. You know, in our generation, 501 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 4: there's a lot of exposure of you know, the predatory 502 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 4: behavior and the people taking advantage you know a lot 503 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 4: of people. I'm surprised that there's certain people that haven't 504 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 4: been vested. I'm like, whoa, they got away with that. 505 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 4: So and then some that I think probably shouldn't have 506 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 4: gotten trouble. But I just think that people know more, 507 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 4: Like Grace Christy's daughter is like, there's no way this 508 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 4: generation of women, those girls that are like twenties, you know, 509 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 4: like ronic Web's daughter, and there's no way that they're 510 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 4: going to let someone do something. There's no way they're 511 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 4: going to be shocked and go let someone expose themselves. 512 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 4: Or they would just be like what the fuck are 513 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 4: you doing? You know what's going on here? They would 514 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 4: be like the way I got when I was like 515 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 4: twenty seven, you know, after I'd already experienced it and 516 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 4: it's like, Okay, now you finally woke up and say 517 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 4: things to people. 518 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 5: But their moms probably prepared them more for it. 519 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 7: Model Wars was a production of iHeart Podcasts and Campside Media. 520 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 7: Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you 521 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 7: get your podcasts. Model Wars was executive produced and hosted 522 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 7: by Vanessa Gregoriotis. Our senior writer was Michael knyon Meyer. 523 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 2: Julia K. 524 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 7: S Lavine was our producer and reporter. Our senior producer 525 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 7: was Lily Houston Smith, and our assistant editor was Emma Simonoff. 526 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 7: We had story and production help from Shoshi Schmulowitz, Ali Haney, 527 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 7: and Blake Rook. Our production manager was Ashley Warren and 528 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 7: our studio recordist was Ewan Li Tremuen. Sound designed by 529 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 7: Mark McCadam. This episode was mixed and engineered by Amber Devereaux. 530 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 7: iHeart Podcasts. Executive producers were Jennifer Bassett and Katrina Norbel. 531 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 7: The show was also executive produced by Rachel winter In, 532 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,479 Speaker 7: Campside Media's Josh Deen, Adam Hoff and not Share. If 533 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 7: you'd like to access behind the scenes content from Model 534 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 7: Wars and Campside Media, please go to join campside dot com. 535 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 7: That's j O I, M C A, M P s 536 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 7: I d E dot com. If you enjoyed Model Wars, 537 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 7: please rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. 538 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 7: Thanks so much for listening. 539 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening to my Wars. We'll be 540 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: back next week with the last of our ten episodes