Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
Speaker 1: the choices we make and where they lead us. So
Speaker 1: today I wanted to talk about something that was a
Speaker 1: big choice my husband and I made that I know
Speaker 1: a lot of couples have gone through and for a
Speaker 1: lot of people, not everyone, but for a lot of people,
Speaker 1: starting a family is important to them. I am blessed
Speaker 1: to be the mother of three, and when Dave and
Speaker 1: I got together, Dave didn't have any children. Today, we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about our journey with IVF. Please welcome
Speaker 1: my hobby Dave, back to the I Choose Me Podcast. Hi, honey,
Speaker 1: Hey babe. Nice to see you on the podcast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you saw me in the kitchen a minute ago.
Speaker 2: M hm and the bedroom.
Speaker 1: This is pretty vulnerable topic and I really appreciate you
Speaker 1: being open to talking about it because I think it
Speaker 1: could help some people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely been the news and people are talking
Speaker 2: about it more and people are open and you know,
Speaker 2: discussing it.
Speaker 1: Why don't we start at the beginning. We've talked about
Speaker 1: our love story on the podcast before. If you guys
Speaker 1: haven't listened to that. Go back and listen to that one,
Speaker 1: so you're up to speed.
Speaker 2: Fun one.
Speaker 1: It's a good one. Yeah, when we met, how old
Speaker 1: were the girls at this point?
Speaker 2: Fiona was eight, Lola was just turning twelve, and Luca
Speaker 2: was sixteen seventeen. I think she had just turn or seventeen.
Speaker 2: She's going into her senior year of high school.
Speaker 1: You entered into a relationship and automatically had three stepdaughters, Yes,
Speaker 1: but no babies of your own.
Speaker 2: No, no children.
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts on kids when we met?
Speaker 2: Were you thinking, No, I'm not you know, I'm not.
Speaker 2: I hear people say, well, you know, I want to
Speaker 2: be a great father and I want to be this
Speaker 2: and I've got to have this family and I want
Speaker 2: to do that. I never really thought of anything. I
Speaker 2: kind of just went day by day and I never
Speaker 2: thought like, did I think about children? Yeah? Did I
Speaker 2: want to have kids? Of course? Yeah. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that'd be great. But it never defined me. I never
Speaker 2: was pushed by you know, I've got to have children
Speaker 2: of my own. I know that's a big deal to
Speaker 2: a lot of men. I just, to be honest, I
Speaker 2: was just I just didn't think about it. I always
Speaker 2: said to myself, if it happened, wonderful and if it didn't,
Speaker 2: then you know it didn't. But something great came out
Speaker 2: of that, you know, with the girls and stuff. And
Speaker 2: it's not like we didn't try. I mean, we're talking
Speaker 2: about this whole episode because we I mean, we gave
Speaker 2: it a good shot.
Speaker 1: What point in our relationship did we start talking about
Speaker 1: maybe wanting to have kids together?
Speaker 2: Well? Do you? I mean, if you if you remember,
Speaker 2: we we got married on July eleventh, what was it,
Speaker 2: July twelfth, two thousand, four fifteen, and then we got pregnant,
Speaker 2: like the same month.
Speaker 1: So we got naturally, we got pregnant naturally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got back from Carmel. We went to a
Speaker 2: little mini like honeymoon to Carmel up in you know, Monterey,
Speaker 2: and like two weeks later, you were pregnant.
Speaker 1: I mean I completely blocked this out.
Speaker 2: You gave me you remember how you told me.
Speaker 1: I do remember telling you, but I didn't remember. It
Speaker 1: was like so quickly after we got married.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you gave me a gift, like you were like,
Speaker 2: here here's a box, and I opened up the box.
Speaker 2: It was like a random Tuesday afternoon and I opened
Speaker 2: up the b and it was this little like onesie with
Speaker 2: like golf carts and golf things on it, and yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's that's how you told me. I remember Liz,
Speaker 2: your assistant at the time, you know, you know, it
Speaker 2: was just me, you and her, and it was then
Speaker 2: that was like, wow, okay.
Speaker 1: You were were you like excited? Were you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I was excited. I mean I was in shock.
Speaker 2: I was like, what so quick?
Speaker 1: I mean our relationship in general was so fast tracked,
Speaker 1: I mean in every sense of the word.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to have that, you know on top of it,
Speaker 2: you're you're just kind of taking aback, going all right, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean that didn't turn out the way we had hoped.
Speaker 1: So what walk me through? And our listeners like what
Speaker 1: happened with that pregnancy? Because, for the life of me,
Speaker 1: I don't remember how I blocked it out.
Speaker 2: For the listeners, it's like I'm having this conversation, like
Speaker 2: she's fully new to this conversation. Okay, So what happened
Speaker 2: you mean after you told me, well, we went to Nancy,
Speaker 2: your doctor gynecologist, and yeah, we were good to go.
Speaker 2: And then that lasted almost four months and then you
Speaker 2: know we found out what do you mean, well, I
Speaker 2: don't want to get emotional on the first fifteen minutes
Speaker 2: of a podcast with me. Yeah, we found out that
Speaker 2: there was no heartbeat.
Speaker 1: Do we find that out in the office? Do you
Speaker 1: remember what went through your mind? Then?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean we've geez, I haven't really
Speaker 2: talked about it, you know, I think it was, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was, I was upset.
Speaker 1: Did you feel upset with me?
Speaker 2: No? No, you talking about like resentment? No, I was.
Speaker 2: I wasn't like upset. I was just just down. M hm.
Speaker 1: So we had to have procedure, the DNC DNC, which.
Speaker 2: We became familiar with, or at least I did, you know,
Speaker 2: because I, you know, i'd never you know, known anyone
Speaker 2: in that situation or gone through that situation.
Speaker 1: I think I remember them saying like we could just
Speaker 1: wait and let it work its way nature, let nature
Speaker 1: take its course where we could do the procedure. And
Speaker 1: we opted to do the procedure because it was just
Speaker 1: too much for me to you know, carry it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe that wasn't was that had been terminated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was totally heavy.
Speaker 1: And then we had it done that day.
Speaker 2: We had it done that day, it's like it's wild,
Speaker 2: it's like you know, in and out, but it's yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's really heavy. And so then after that, you know,
Speaker 2: because it was totally unexpected, and it was like, well maybe,
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I'm you know, speaking for myself,
Speaker 2: please do you know maybe that wasn't in the plan.
Speaker 1: And so so you sort of reconciled with yourself, well
Speaker 1: that's not on the cards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But then it happened again naturally, yes, mm hmm,
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Why don't I remember things?
Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, I think you I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's a good one to block out. I guess.
Speaker 1: So what happened?
Speaker 2: And then so that one was shorter. I remember we
Speaker 2: had to switch to doctors, and this one was only
Speaker 2: you know, you found out you got pregnant. And then
Speaker 2: this was only like a month and a half. And
Speaker 2: then we went and we you know how they you
Speaker 2: can kind of see it, you know, starting to come around.
Speaker 2: And then this one was short. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: the doctor, I forget his name, I think that the
Speaker 2: doctor at the time was like, well, it's it's not
Speaker 2: going to be healthy anyway. So then we you know,
Speaker 2: we did the DNC again, and then by that time
Speaker 2: I think I think that it had definitely taken an
Speaker 2: emotional tool which we didn't know how to communicate at
Speaker 2: the time, so we kind of just wrapped it up,
Speaker 2: and then other things kind of came in the fold.
Speaker 2: And then I think our relationship is starting to get
Speaker 2: a little, you know, just chaotic and not having the
Speaker 2: tools equipped to work through it. And we were going
Speaker 2: to therapy, but we were not necessarily doing the wrong therapy.
Speaker 2: We were just we weren't attacking the root.
Speaker 1: We were talking about that, right, and the deep sadness
Speaker 1: and grief that both of us were feeling simultaneously, but
Speaker 1: we weren't talking to each other about it. I feel
Speaker 1: like I remember a little bit of just really going
Speaker 1: inside and struggling personally and privately on my own, and
Speaker 1: I felt and sort of saw that you were doing
Speaker 1: the same thing.
Speaker 2: I mean, I I said stuff to you know, people like, oh, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, man, it just didn't take, and people are like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: you'll get it next time. It's it was very like
Speaker 2: I just I just didn't know how it was so nonchalant.
Speaker 2: I was thinking to myself, am I being too emotional
Speaker 2: about this? You know, like once twice, like am I
Speaker 2: is it just like no big deal. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I had to like figure that out. I didn't work
Speaker 2: through that. I mean, it wasn't and it wasn't. I'm
Speaker 2: not making like, you know, my friends and family, you know,
Speaker 2: like very you know, dismissive. It was just, yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't think. I don't think I knew how to handle
Speaker 2: it much less. I don't really think I had a
Speaker 2: lot of people to converse with in it.
Speaker 1: So we were both dealing with that grief internally but
Speaker 1: not sharing with each other, which I think was a
Speaker 1: big problem. We'll get into that a little bit later,
Speaker 1: but I think at that time, I was feeling really
Speaker 1: down on myself, really ashamed, feeling like I was disappointing you,
Speaker 1: like I wasn't able to carry a pregnancy with you,
Speaker 1: who I loved.
Speaker 2: And I.
Speaker 1: Had had these three beautiful daughters with Peter, and you
Speaker 1: had stepped in and become such a wonderful stepdad to them,
Speaker 1: and you have a great dad, and you have a
Speaker 1: great relationship with your dad, and you are so fun
Speaker 1: and just like love sports. So I remember I so
Speaker 1: so so wanted to give you a baby boy, and
Speaker 1: so I think I was, really.
Speaker 2: I was, you went down sort of a different you
Speaker 2: know road or you know, with like dealing with it.
Speaker 2: You I think were hard on yourself and you thought
Speaker 2: a little insecurities crept in that you weren't good enough.
Speaker 2: And because I was younger, I needed to fill that
Speaker 2: so called Lloyd in my life, and I I tried
Speaker 2: to communicate, you know a little bit, like you know,
Speaker 2: it's not a big deal. I mean, I didn't marry
Speaker 2: you because I wanted to have children, and this didn't
Speaker 2: this wasn't even something to be like expected. But since
Speaker 2: it happened, you know, I mean, I was, you know,
Speaker 2: you being the mother you are and the person you
Speaker 2: are and the human you are. Of course, and naturally
Speaker 2: I want to have a child with you, who would
Speaker 2: have been great. But I don't. I don't necessarily look
Speaker 2: back and think that stuff. I truly do feel like
Speaker 2: everything happens for a reason, and I'm so happy now,
Speaker 2: we're so happy. Now, we're in the best place we've
Speaker 2: come through this journey.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I want to go back to that time.
Speaker 1: And I was silently suffering, and.
Speaker 2: Also there was a lot of hormones that I didn't
Speaker 2: know what were going on that were just exploding.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like with those two consecutive pregnancies and then those
Speaker 1: two consecutive situations, I think that neither of us acknowledged
Speaker 1: the hormones at play, and that just that my mental
Speaker 1: and physical was not the norm, and I got I
Speaker 1: would be much quicker to be upset I was. I
Speaker 1: think I was more apt to be insecure, like you said,
Speaker 1: which turned into that jealousy, controlling feeling for you probably, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I was trying to burn the house down because
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I deserved this or it was
Speaker 1: all my fault.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And also I didn't help the situation because I
Speaker 2: was like, mister nothing, everything's fine, Like we can move
Speaker 2: forward like every look, don't worry about it at the time,
Speaker 2: instead of like really delving into it and actually having
Speaker 2: a conversation about her or actually like, you know, we
Speaker 2: we need to really kind of get a hold of this.
Speaker 1: Do you wish you had handled it differently?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Of course, how would you have handled it differently?
Speaker 2: I would have I was. I was. I think at
Speaker 2: the time I was more wrapped up into me, you know,
Speaker 2: even though I was a partner and I was doing
Speaker 2: everything that I was supposed to be doing. I was
Speaker 2: at you know, doing the girls going and whatever they needed,
Speaker 2: whatever you needed. But I was internalizing everything like kind
Speaker 2: of selfishly like and myself like like, well what am
Speaker 2: I going to get? Like what is the end going
Speaker 2: to be for me? And like I don't really I
Speaker 2: didn't at the time. I didn't know how to handle
Speaker 2: what you were going through. I just I couldn't. And
Speaker 2: my biggest flaw is fight or flight, and so I
Speaker 2: would just remove myself because I couldn't handle it.
Speaker 1: When did we decide to go down the IVF road.
Speaker 1: It must have been right after that, because I was like,
Speaker 1: I want to go and find out what's going on
Speaker 1: with my eggs, Like I wanted to know what if
Speaker 1: my eggs were in fact the problem or if there
Speaker 1: was an alternative for us. So I think that that
Speaker 1: is when we went into the fertility center.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure on the actual day. I think
Speaker 2: it was a year before. It might have been it
Speaker 2: was a year before we broke up.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, we'll get to that.
Speaker 2: There's also is something I need to remind you of
Speaker 2: it probably later on in this that you've probably forgotten about.
Speaker 2: One great when we were broken up as well.
Speaker 1: Great. I can't wait to hear it. So stay tuned
Speaker 1: for that, guys. Geez. The IVF for for people that
Speaker 1: have aren't familiar with IVF, there's a lot to it.
Speaker 1: There are it's you have to find the right doctor,
Speaker 1: fertility doctor. There is a lot of blood testing.
Speaker 2: We had a we had a really good one. She
Speaker 2: was great.
Speaker 1: A lot of pokes and prods and shots, shots. There
Speaker 1: was the painful retrieving of the eggs, which doesn't sound
Speaker 1: bad in theory, but it was very unpleasant stuff. The hearing,
Speaker 1: the hearing, the disappointing news that they have a grading
Speaker 1: system with eggs. And I was I mean at that time,
Speaker 1: I was in my forties.
Speaker 2: You were forty forty five, forty six.
Speaker 1: My mid forties, and you know I found out that
Speaker 1: yeah it was me. It was my eggs. They were
Speaker 1: not good enough.
Speaker 2: But that's not that's not true. You had good eggs.
Speaker 1: What was the scale did they?
Speaker 2: I think we had a C.
Speaker 1: It was a if you have a egg, B eggs,
Speaker 1: C egg and so.
Speaker 2: On, and so we we tried.
Speaker 1: We rechieved some eggs, and then they looked at them
Speaker 1: and they said, well, here are your options. You have,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe a B minus egg and some C eggs.
Speaker 1: Do you want to proceed?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: And I was determined yeah, and we did. And then
Speaker 1: that that's when I remember. I just remember continuing that
Speaker 1: feeling of shame and sadness because that that confirmation that
Speaker 1: I did my eggs weren't good enough anymore, weren't young
Speaker 1: enough or able to have a viable pregnancy. So then
Speaker 1: you did the sperm count test. Once we decided to
Speaker 1: move forward, they needed to check your sperm count. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you want to tell them about that? This was
Speaker 1: just this was the sperm count, So go.
Speaker 2: Ahead, Like I always made, I know what you're getting
Speaker 2: at because I always make a joke about it because
Speaker 2: I had like to something out of to something I
Speaker 2: had a great score.
Speaker 1: Wait, no, good, a little more detail please. You're supposed
Speaker 1: to have.
Speaker 2: What you know, sixty seven to sixty seven.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so you're supposed to have like the high
Speaker 1: scores to sixty seven or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah I score. Hey, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: And then you proceeded to joke around about it.
Speaker 2: I did to, yeah, to probably quell my anxiety. But
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I felt great about that at score.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like when we're talking about it, when you
Speaker 2: know you're going down and I haven't actually like visually
Speaker 2: in my head. I'm very visual, so I have little
Speaker 2: scenes in my head that are playing out as you're talking.
Speaker 2: And I can remember like the waiting room, the you know,
Speaker 2: inside the office, when the restroom, when I went to
Speaker 2: get water, when just feelings of like panic and anxiety,
Speaker 2: and like I remember after this IVF it didn't take
Speaker 2: and we went down that road. I remember the restroom,
Speaker 2: and I remember the fake flower as I was sitting
Speaker 2: on the toilet, not using the restroom, just sitting on
Speaker 2: the toilet and taking that flower and ripping it and
Speaker 2: throwing it in the drap. It's so like, it's so
Speaker 2: weird because you know, for I mean, it's a heavy
Speaker 2: subject for everybody, and and my heart goes out to
Speaker 2: people who you know, are really trying and going through
Speaker 2: the process, because we've been through the process, but we
Speaker 2: only we only went through it once. We elected not
Speaker 2: to try again because it was just it was really
Speaker 2: heavy emotionally after you had been through all the miscarriages,
Speaker 2: and we have friends that have successfully done it, and
Speaker 2: it's it's you know, my heart goes out to them
Speaker 2: even on you know, successfully having kids and stuff, because
Speaker 2: it's it's a lot.
Speaker 1: I do remember when you were joking around about like
Speaker 1: you have this perfect sperm count and here I am
Speaker 1: sitting over here with the imperfect you know, expired eggs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not that I'm angry at you about it now, but
Speaker 1: as we're talking about it, I can understand like my
Speaker 1: feelings about it and how that even sent me and
Speaker 1: us into a darker, darker place.
Speaker 2: Me thinking something so light and trying to make light
Speaker 2: of it too in my eyes, help the situation actually
Speaker 2: hurt the situation.
Speaker 1: I don't remember the the implantation process because we proceeded.
Speaker 1: We got your perfect sperm and we put it met
Speaker 1: up with my imperfect eggs and just prayed and hoped
Speaker 1: that it would work. But it did. Its stick, It stuck,
Speaker 1: I remember one stuck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one stuck. But then we did oh yeah it did,
Speaker 2: and then we went through the process. We went to
Speaker 2: the next step.
Speaker 1: Well, first we had to do all the shots. First,
Speaker 1: they you know, they send you home with your marching everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we got they did the they had to prepare me,
Speaker 1: I think before the implant of the sperm, and that
Speaker 1: was you know, shots at daily shots.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that we had to do, and Maven, you had
Speaker 2: to do it when you were you were traveling, so
Speaker 2: you were working and traveling a lot still, so you
Speaker 2: had to do it on the road and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I don't really remember you being a part of the.
Speaker 2: Shots a couple of times, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Maybe like two times, yeah, out of a lot. And
Speaker 1: I remember being upset by that, but never communicating it
Speaker 1: to you.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I remember thinking, I don't think he understands what is
Speaker 1: happening to my body.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did it. I think that that's a good
Speaker 2: lesson for everybody who was taking from us not communicating.
Speaker 2: And I think that that it was terrible that we
Speaker 2: didn't communicate that stuff. I had no idea about that,
Speaker 2: And I do remember sometimes I did it for you.
Speaker 1: I mean it was I think just from a male perspective,
Speaker 1: it's it's obviously a lot less invasive for a man
Speaker 1: to go through all this, But what was it like
Speaker 1: me put my body through that? And like I guess
Speaker 1: you just said you didn't really understand what was going
Speaker 1: on with me physically and emotionally. How did you manage
Speaker 1: that or not manage that? And is there anything that
Speaker 1: you wish you had done differently so that maybe you
Speaker 1: can help other guys out there. And I'm not I
Speaker 1: don't mean to be pointing the finger.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of the experience, and because it's
Speaker 2: not a great experience, if I'm speaking you know, for
Speaker 2: me personally, it wasn't a great experience. I'm talking about
Speaker 2: just emotionally. I'm talking about like disappointment and then seeing
Speaker 2: you go through what you had to do, the process,
Speaker 2: seeing the process, and then going through the process and
Speaker 2: then ultimately failing at the process. But my takeaway wasn't
Speaker 2: towards you. I wasn't upset at you. I was upset
Speaker 2: at the process because I just I just didn't want
Speaker 2: to be a part of that process anymore. My whole
Speaker 2: thing was that if we can't do it, it's just
Speaker 2: not in the cards for us. And maybe that's yeah,
Speaker 2: I just I couldn't go Ever, once we left there,
Speaker 2: once the IVF well, once it was done, I you know,
Speaker 2: I never wanted to go back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got to the place. I think that was
Speaker 1: after all the prep work that we had to go through,
Speaker 1: with the priming my body and getting my hormones to
Speaker 1: the right levels with the shots.
Speaker 2: And then the DNC scene you go through the DNC.
Speaker 2: I said, I'd never do that again. I'm never going
Speaker 2: to make you do that again.
Speaker 1: We had already done it.
Speaker 2: Four time, well three three times. We haven't gotten to
Speaker 2: the fourth.
Speaker 1: We decided that IVF wasn't for us. We had already
Speaker 1: spent a lot of money. Yeah, and the aftermath of
Speaker 1: that experience threw.
Speaker 2: Me into his tail spend. Personally. After that experience, the
Speaker 2: life that I was in with you at the time
Speaker 2: was just too overwhelming for me. You were a celebrity.
Speaker 2: I had three step children. I think I was like three.
Speaker 2: We were three and a half years into our relationship.
Speaker 2: I started my own business. It was going it was
Speaker 2: going well. I was gonna go do another one, and
Speaker 2: I couldn't handle the severity of everything like mentally like happening.
Speaker 2: So like, I just chose to kind of get out
Speaker 2: of the situation, which is not healthy. And then I
Speaker 2: feel like with the hormones that were going on with
Speaker 2: you, you weren't you weren't the same. You were being influenced
Speaker 2: by stuff you couldn't control. Essentially, I felt like and
Speaker 2: I just couldn't be there to help you. I wasn't
Speaker 2: mature enough.
Speaker 1: So what do you mean you couldn't handle it? That's
Speaker 1: you decided that you needed to leave. You did that
Speaker 1: fight or flight thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it had gotten to the point where
Speaker 2: I just I couldn't handle it anymore. But there was
Speaker 2: also stuff going on with you that you didn't know
Speaker 2: how to articulate. Your actions were not your Definitely.
Speaker 1: I wasn't myself. I wasn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, yeah, behaving.
Speaker 1: Like probably the person that you had fallen in love with,
Speaker 1: because I was grappling with so many emotions personally inside
Speaker 1: my head, right, and then seeing you react the way
Speaker 1: you react, and I think kept just pushing me further
Speaker 1: over the edge. Yeah, it was not a good time.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Do you think that the girls felt all of this
Speaker 1: or did they know about all of this?
Speaker 2: I think they were. I think Fiona was young. So
Speaker 2: Fiona was like ten or eleven, and she was very compassionate.
Speaker 2: Lola was fourteen fifteen teenager, really upset when she found
Speaker 2: out we were pregnant the first time when she was
Speaker 2: like twelve, she said she was going to go move
Speaker 2: to her dad's. Now, I mean you take all that
Speaker 2: with a grain of salt. They you know, they have
Speaker 2: a brother now and they adore that little boy and
Speaker 2: he's so cute. But yeah, I don't know, they know
Speaker 2: they didn't know what was going on, like the severity
Speaker 2: of what was going on with the both of us,
Speaker 2: But you know, we didn't even know what was going on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't something we sat around at the dinner table.
Speaker 2: No, it's like this thing that just it just sat
Speaker 2: there and you just went, well, you know, I'm grieving,
Speaker 2: so is that going to go away? But I mean
Speaker 2: at the time, I didn't know I was grieving.
Speaker 1: Right, We didn't even know that we needed to grieve
Speaker 1: properly or treat ourselves with a different kind of compassion.
Speaker 2: But it's so odd. What are you grieving something you
Speaker 2: didn't even know it didn't even exist.
Speaker 1: I think we were grieving the loss of the idea
Speaker 1: of what we thought our future should look like, right,
Speaker 1: and grieving. I was grieving on your behalf for you
Speaker 1: not becoming a.
Speaker 2: Dad, fulfilling something that I had built up in my
Speaker 2: head for so long.
Speaker 1: So we were separated for a while, like ten months. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember just like being gobsmacked, quite honestly, that you left,
Speaker 1: and I remember I had just, you know, a few
Speaker 1: years prior to this, gone through a after in a
Speaker 1: relationship with somebody for seventeen years, and I was so
Speaker 1: excited to be in a relationship with you and have
Speaker 1: a fresh start and a second third chance. And I
Speaker 1: was pretty like destroyed. And you literally just were tail
Speaker 1: lights and left me and the girls. Not to point
Speaker 1: a finger, I'm just telling you the facts. You left
Speaker 1: the girls and I to deal with it, and unfortunately,
Speaker 1: in that time I was just a mess. I think,
Speaker 1: even more destroyed somehow than when my relationship with Peter
Speaker 1: ended and the girls all handled it differently. They weren't
Speaker 1: happy with me. They were mad at me because I
Speaker 1: was so upset again, so heartbroke, and I remember Fiona
Speaker 1: wrote me a song on the piano to try to
Speaker 1: make me feel better. I have a recording of it
Speaker 1: on my phone and I listened to it sometimes.
Speaker 2: And then they would go. So you were still doing
Speaker 2: like one week off, one week on, and Peter lived
Speaker 2: around the corner from like the new restaurant bar that
Speaker 2: I had opened, and I would work during days and
Speaker 2: Loula would sneak sneak out and come over there. During
Speaker 2: the day and kind of see me and yeah, it
Speaker 2: was hard. And then Luca when she would come back
Speaker 2: from New York, you know, I see her and yeah
Speaker 2: it was hard. And then you know, they kind of
Speaker 2: got settled into you know, we weren't going to be together,
Speaker 2: and then we started getting back together and we started
Speaker 2: to date again, and then we didn't talk about you know,
Speaker 2: we had gotten back together in December of that year
Speaker 2: and you had gotten pregnant naturally again and you don't
Speaker 2: remember that. And then that's when we had to go
Speaker 2: and do the final DNC, which was in January of
Speaker 2: that year, which was and then that kind of set
Speaker 2: us back for a couple of months until July is
Speaker 2: when we you and I rented a house in Joshua
Speaker 2: Tree with like no internet, nothing, and we just went
Speaker 2: there with the dogs for four days and ride laughed.
Speaker 2: You know, think, what do.
Speaker 1: You think it was that brought us back together? Even
Speaker 1: what was it that brought us back together before we
Speaker 1: had that last pregnancy. What made you come want to
Speaker 1: come back? I guess or decide that you had dealt
Speaker 1: with what you needed to deal with enough in order
Speaker 1: to come back, given that you knew that leaving the
Speaker 1: way you did, probably you shouldn't do that again the
Speaker 1: way you did. You know what I mean, like, had
Speaker 1: you did you learn something about yourself or did you
Speaker 1: do work on yourself or did you.
Speaker 2: I mean I think that that, I think, i've I've
Speaker 2: I think we both came back together with a sense
Speaker 2: of what the work we need to do to get
Speaker 2: to where we want to be. We both, I mean,
Speaker 2: we communicated what we need to have in this relationship
Speaker 2: to move forward, and you said I'll do that, and
Speaker 2: I said I'll do that, and so far, you know,
Speaker 2: we've kind of kept to it all the while opening
Speaker 2: communication up and not falling into those habits I mean
Speaker 2: for me, I mean, I don't like confrontation, and if
Speaker 2: it's a fan, I just bail.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's important to like, that's a problem.
Speaker 1: Look at your upbringing and yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean I grew up in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and
Speaker 2: I didn't want to be around there anymore, so I left.
Speaker 1: But you also had as a child of kind of
Speaker 1: an unpredictable energy in your home, and when things would
Speaker 1: get unpredictable, it would be scary and you would hide
Speaker 1: or leave.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd go to the beach.
Speaker 1: So that was I think a lot of the work
Speaker 1: that you had to start with on the ground level
Speaker 1: is looking where that fight or flight for you.
Speaker 2: Also like it it's so weird. I don't you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know who else deals with us, But it's
Speaker 2: the feeling you get when you're in a situation and
Speaker 2: to communicate it, like you know, it's so much easier
Speaker 2: just to be like, okay, I'm going to leak. And
Speaker 2: then when you leave a person like I have that
Speaker 2: problem I struggle with, it's just this weight comes off,
Speaker 2: you know, and it's like it's almost like you feel free, Yeah,
Speaker 2: instead of actually having the conversation and doing the work
Speaker 2: and respecting, you know, the person you're in that relationship with,
Speaker 2: giving them that respect to communicate that. I've had to
Speaker 2: work on that a lot.
Speaker 1: I mean, because we were that was it.
Speaker 2: But that's one of your triggers too, which is abandonment,
Speaker 2: and I feed right into that.
Speaker 1: It was like a perfect storm.
Speaker 2: Do you remember, like, how how did you feel the
Speaker 2: last time? How did you feel in December when when
Speaker 2: we got back together, and like what were your thoughts?
Speaker 1: I remember telling this is after the three pregnancies didn't work.
Speaker 1: After you left, after we were broken up, completely ready
Speaker 1: to sign the paper first divorce papers, we started hanging
Speaker 1: out a little bit. Then we got pregnant, and I
Speaker 1: remember I had taken myself to the beach by myself
Speaker 1: in an RV, and I I was still grappling with
Speaker 1: things and really trying to because the coming back together
Speaker 1: process where we started hanging out again was extremely difficult.
Speaker 2: Totally.
Speaker 1: It was like wading through shit, you know, because we
Speaker 1: were we still weren't really equipped well.
Speaker 2: Because you I was being a little bit more patient,
Speaker 2: Like I was like, I'm kinda I have this apartment
Speaker 2: I'd like to like, I was making it like, well,
Speaker 2: we didn't we did. We did this, this and this
Speaker 2: wrong in the first like the first go round. Let's
Speaker 2: not do that a second go around.
Speaker 1: Oh so you were trying to not rush back into things.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you think that that was because you didn't think
Speaker 1: you were ready yet again?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I loved you. I knew, I mean,
Speaker 2: I was you were my wife still technically, I just
Speaker 2: I yeah, I wanted to wanted to go slow. There's
Speaker 2: a lot like you were like bullshyet there's a.
Speaker 1: Lot there that's I feel like we still need to
Speaker 1: communicate through because I'm just feeling this tinge of like
Speaker 1: heat coming up the back of my neck. But I've
Speaker 1: learned to handle that in a different way now, not react, yeah,
Speaker 1: and attempt to communicate my way through it, which we
Speaker 1: can do great at a later time. But yeah, that
Speaker 1: the coming back together part was very difficult for me.
Speaker 1: I'll speak for myself. And I continued to feel like
Speaker 1: you didn't really want it by you going slow and
Speaker 1: doing it the way you wanted to do it, did
Speaker 1: it didn't make me feel good. And I remember just
Speaker 1: really struggling with that. So I went to the beach
Speaker 1: that day with the dogs and I wasn't feeling well.
Speaker 1: I was feeling nauseous. I went to the drove the
Speaker 1: RV into Santa Barbara, got a pregnancy test, took it
Speaker 1: in the r V. Yeah that's right, and saw that
Speaker 1: I was pregnant again, and I was like, oh my, oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. I totally forgot about that. You you
Speaker 2: were in an.
Speaker 1: RV and I called you. Do you remember what you
Speaker 1: thought when I told you? That?
Speaker 2: Man? No, I mean shocked, just like really shocked.
Speaker 1: I think I felt like doom. I felt like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is here we go. This is not good. Like
Speaker 1: I didn't have that joyous ya the first time we
Speaker 1: had you know, I felt like, I don't think we're
Speaker 1: really even ready to deal with this again. And then
Speaker 1: nature made it so that we didn't have to deal
Speaker 1: with it again. Yeah, so we kind of at that
Speaker 1: point got the message. I think that we weren't necessarily
Speaker 1: meant to have kids naturally. Did we ever after all
Speaker 1: of that drama. I don't think we ever had the
Speaker 1: conversation of like, let's adopt or let's do as surrogate.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I remember asking you, did you want to explore having
Speaker 1: a surrogate, having someone else carry the baby?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: And you were absolute about not wanting that.
Speaker 2: No, because I don't know if this is wrong. I
Speaker 2: like everything now, you know what I mean. I don't
Speaker 2: need that. I have everything I need.
Speaker 1: And I was really just trying to do it for you, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I already had my kids and I was like
Speaker 1: already I remember thinking like, oh my god, going back
Speaker 1: to sleepless nights and diapers and my boobs hurting, and yeah, but.
Speaker 2: I wish, I wish, I wish you wouldn't like the pressure.
Speaker 2: I didn't. I felt like I wasn't pressuring you in
Speaker 2: that you were No, you weren't pressure, and you had
Speaker 2: some you wanted it.
Speaker 1: I wanted it for you, and even when you were like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't, I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2: I didn't.
Speaker 1: I told you I believed you, but I guess deep
Speaker 1: down inside I didn't.
Speaker 2: I don't think you did.
Speaker 1: Who WHOA. This is a lot. The girls are all
Speaker 1: young women now.
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Speaker 1: How do you feel with certainty today about not being
Speaker 1: a biological father? Wonderful you didn't hesitate at all.
Speaker 2: I feel great. I feel fantastic.
Speaker 1: You're killing me. I feel great that you're a great
Speaker 1: with it because I finally am like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm real good with it too.
Speaker 2: No, I mean I'm I enjoy love. I love the girls,
Speaker 2: I love spending time with them. Secretly, I'm like, I
Speaker 2: want them to wait, but I secretly like, deep down,
Speaker 2: I'm very excited about the grandkids one day, one day,
Speaker 2: and that could be twenty thirty years from now, forty
Speaker 2: years from now. But there is a part of me that, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm excited about that because I love you. I want
Speaker 2: us to kind of go shut that door. You know,
Speaker 2: the past is the past, and I'm grateful for it.
Speaker 2: There's so much gratitude for what we went through, even
Speaker 2: though it sounds crazy, and even though I hadn't really
Speaker 2: like we still really haven't discussed it.
Speaker 1: I guess we are now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we have, but I'm just so grateful
Speaker 2: for what we have and what the path in which
Speaker 2: the girls are going, and you know, their next chapter
Speaker 2: is in life, and to be a part of that
Speaker 2: is very special and quite selfishly, I it's nice to
Speaker 2: play golf and not have an eight year old.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, you guys just heard the actual truth. That
Speaker 1: is the bottom line for you.
Speaker 2: No, that's a joke. That's just a joke. But no,
Speaker 2: I'm very grateful for how the story played out and
Speaker 2: people who are looking to do IVF and are going
Speaker 2: through IVF. I mean, my heart goes out too all
Speaker 2: of you. I think it's it's it's a wonderful thing,
Speaker 2: but it's also you know, communicate with your partner is huge.
Speaker 2: Communication is huge.
Speaker 1: I think communicating more specifically about your feelings through the
Speaker 1: process with one another.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean, what if I would have came
Speaker 2: to you? And like, man, I'm just so.
Speaker 1: Sad, then we would have been sad together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't
Speaker 2: know if I was supposed to be that sad you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but my heart goes out to people who are doing it,
Speaker 2: and especially the success stories are amazing, and there's a
Speaker 2: lot of other stories that you know, people don't get
Speaker 2: a chance to tell.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this when you hear Even still
Speaker 1: to this day, we know people who are having babies
Speaker 1: from IVF, from the assistance of IVF, currently very very
Speaker 1: close friends of yours. How does how does that make
Speaker 1: you feel? Because I've watched as we went through this
Speaker 1: whole process. I've watched as every one of your friends
Speaker 1: pretty much has started their families in your You haven't
Speaker 1: You never got to do those things that they are doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I know that along the way that has been
Speaker 1: hard for you, Even though you didn't really tell me
Speaker 1: about it, I could tell. But how is it now
Speaker 1: and where you are today hearing that your close friends
Speaker 1: are expecting a.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm I'm I have like I'm a little anxious
Speaker 2: for them because I wanted to be like joyous and
Speaker 2: I wanted to succeed. So I guess I guess anxious.
Speaker 2: I'm nervous, and I hope everything works out, and I'm
Speaker 2: sure it will, and I'm very excited for them.
Speaker 1: There's no part of you that's sad or.
Speaker 2: Like like.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, because you want to go golfing.
Speaker 2: No, not just that. I mean I I got Fiona.
Speaker 2: I did elementary school, Like I went from having an
Speaker 2: apartment to walking in a fifth grader to school every day.
Speaker 2: And then was Lola was in like what six grade?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: What was now? Lola was six? What was Fiona like third? Fourth?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you really got to raise.
Speaker 2: I went to we went to how many weekends do
Speaker 2: we do? Soccer? Soccer? Soccer? Soccers? A lot of weekends. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, were fully, I've already done all that.
Speaker 2: I haven't changed diapers, that's it.
Speaker 1: You know, well you will get to with our grim babies.
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the reasons we're both so excited,
Speaker 1: and we might actually just like steal the baby ah
Speaker 1: for you know, the weekends for sure, and then give
Speaker 1: it back.
Speaker 2: I'm very excited. I'm very excited about that. And yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm I'm happy for the journey that we went on,
Speaker 2: even though it was God, it sucked.
Speaker 1: But I think talking about it bringing it to light,
Speaker 1: certainly talking about it with one another, but sharing our
Speaker 1: story with other people is the key to moving through it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I didn't. I went into this talk
Speaker 2: today now probably like unprepared. But it is emotional topic.
Speaker 2: It's and especially it's it's at the four I mean,
Speaker 2: it's in the election right now, and it's huge. It's
Speaker 2: a big deal because there this is a really good
Speaker 2: way for people to fulfill their dream to have a family.
Speaker 1: And to have that option that right be someone else's
Speaker 1: decision is real, real difficult for for me and for
Speaker 1: a lot of people to understand. Right, do you feel
Speaker 1: good about sharing?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I feel good. Yeah. How do you feel?
Speaker 1: I feel good?
Speaker 2: Did we jar your memory a little bit? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You jarred my memory. Also brought up some things I
Speaker 1: didn't want to really remember.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean I had some stuff pop up too.
Speaker 2: While we were talking. I was like, what is that?
Speaker 1: Wait, what are you remembering the time I threw your
Speaker 1: golf clubs?
Speaker 2: No, well, no, I didn't say that. That was in
Speaker 2: the beginning of the podcast, when I was like, well,
Speaker 2: when we were talking about hormones, I was like, well,
Speaker 2: you did write that into one of your shows where
Speaker 2: you threw my golf clubs in the pool. So and
Speaker 2: then when I asked you why did you do that?
Speaker 2: You said, I want to go after something you love.
Speaker 2: And I was like, well that, yeah, okay, you did
Speaker 2: a good job.
Speaker 1: Now, whenever we have a fight and you go for
Speaker 1: a drive, you.
Speaker 2: Take your golf No, no, that was no, you store
Speaker 2: your golf all the time. I ran out of the
Speaker 2: house and I ran out and with my golf clubs
Speaker 2: and threw them in the back of the truck.
Speaker 1: Just in case.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like, oh, if I leave these here,
Speaker 2: they're going to be snapped.
Speaker 1: So good times.
Speaker 2: That's good stuff to laugh and laugh about.
Speaker 1: That good we can laugh about it, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean you did you did like a one you
Speaker 2: did a twirl. I'm on camera, but you did a
Speaker 2: twirl with my cell phone and then it came out
Speaker 2: and flew at my head and hit the back of
Speaker 2: the wall. And I got up like this and you
Speaker 2: were staring at me, and I was like, okay, hormones, hormones.
Speaker 2: Everyone's had hormone stories.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that would be a fun episode. Let's just
Speaker 1: get all be really honest about our worst moments. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: So I feel like we've talked about this a little
Speaker 1: bit too much. I feel like we're gonna go. I
Speaker 1: know I'm gonna go. I need to decompress a little.
Speaker 1: I need to process some of the stuff that's coming
Speaker 1: up for me.
Speaker 2: Well, listen, honey, I wouldn't have changed anything about our story,
Speaker 2: and I'm grateful we went through it together. I'm sorry
Speaker 2: we had to go through it. I love you.
Speaker 1: No, that means a lot to me. Thank you. I
Speaker 1: obviously love you too before I let you go, Babe,
Speaker 1: what was your last I choose me moment?
Speaker 2: Oh? Man? She you always asked me this question, like
Speaker 2: you'll ask it like, when was the last I choose moment? Well,
Speaker 2: that's easy. Sunday morning football all day. No one was here,
Speaker 2: you were out of town, and I literally I watched
Speaker 2: football all day with me and the dogs. I chose
Speaker 2: me that day, and I chose fantasy football players.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, very habit people football can be and I
Speaker 1: choose me mom.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me on the podcast.
Speaker 1: You're welcome, love you, love you. I want to thank
Speaker 1: my husband Day for coming back on the pod and
Speaker 1: for having that uncomfortable conversation with me. That time in
Speaker 1: our relationship was definitely not easy, but I wanted to
Speaker 1: share it because I know that a lot of people
Speaker 1: go through similar struggles when it comes to fertility and
Speaker 1: starting a family. Or maybe you don't have a partner,
Speaker 1: but you're thinking of starting a family on your own
Speaker 1: and you want us to know a little bit more
Speaker 1: about IBF. We felt like it was important for us
Speaker 1: to share our story with you because even though it
Speaker 1: was difficult, we made it through, and all of that
Speaker 1: pain created room for significant growth, both individually and in
Speaker 1: our relationship as we continue to choose ourselves each week.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a question. Have you been
Speaker 1: avoiding having a conversation with someone in your life because
Speaker 1: you know it will be difficult. I know Dave and
Speaker 1: I talked about this, how when we were going through
Speaker 1: some of our darkest times, we weren't talking to each
Speaker 1: other about our feelings. We weren't communicating, and it almost
Speaker 1: broke us. Are you and your partner communicating about not
Speaker 1: just the good times, but also the difficult times? Or
Speaker 1: maybe you've been putting off having a tense conversation with
Speaker 1: a family member. Look I am here to tell you
Speaker 1: living in your head with your thoughts is not the
Speaker 1: way to do it. And I know because I'm a
Speaker 1: master at living in my head with my thoughts. So
Speaker 1: even if you can't talk with that person this week,
Speaker 1: I want to encourage you to have a conversation with someone.
Speaker 1: Talking about whatever you might be going through is going
Speaker 1: to feel a lot better than keeping it inside. Thank
Speaker 1: you for listening to I Choose Me. Please check out
Speaker 1: our socials, follow the show, rate US, review us, drop
Speaker 1: me a message a comment, use the hashtag I Choose Me.
Speaker 1: Whenever you feel like it. I'll be right here next week.
Speaker 1: I hope you choose to be here too,