WEBVTT - The Soul Force

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<v Speaker 1>Not long after Martin Luther King Jr. Was killed in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty eight, a cartoon ran in the Chicago Sun Times.

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<v Speaker 1>It showed King standing next to a seated Mahandas Gandhi,

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<v Speaker 1>another iconic leader, slain by an assassin's bullet. The cartoon,

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<v Speaker 1>Gandhi tells King the following, The odd thing about assassin's

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<v Speaker 1>doctor King is that they think they've killed you. The

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<v Speaker 1>American philosopher Ralph Waldo Emerson once said that society punishes

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<v Speaker 1>those who try to improve it. King and Gandhi were

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<v Speaker 1>willing to take that punishment. In fact, they welcomed it

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<v Speaker 1>as the price of change, even when it meant losing

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<v Speaker 1>their own lives. And indeed, as the cartoon suggested, the

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<v Speaker 1>principles of love and nonviolence that they preached did not

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<v Speaker 1>die with them. What Gandhi called the Sole Force continues

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<v Speaker 1>to live on in the hearts of millions, challenging injustice

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<v Speaker 1>all over the globe. All in we go to find

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<v Speaker 1>we have to we got to all up the good,

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<v Speaker 1>save that we've got to all it up to wed.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Sean Braswell, and this is the thread. This season,

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<v Speaker 1>we've traced the origins of a powerful idea, one that

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<v Speaker 1>has cross continence and transcended religion, class, and other barriers

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<v Speaker 1>to change the lives of millions of people during the

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<v Speaker 1>past two hundred years. That idea is non violent resistance,

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<v Speaker 1>the counterintuitive notion that the best way to reform your

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<v Speaker 1>enemies is to love them. The best way to counter

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<v Speaker 1>their blows is to absorb them. Here's a quick recap

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<v Speaker 1>of where our journey through the history of non violence

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<v Speaker 1>has taken us this season. We began with the Reverend

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<v Speaker 1>Martin Luther King, Jr. The American most famous for you

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<v Speaker 1>a nonviolent protest. Well several weeks now were the Migro

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<v Speaker 1>citizens of Montgomery have been involved in a non violent

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<v Speaker 1>protest against the injustices, which we have experienced on the

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<v Speaker 1>busses a number of years. King, however, was standing on

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<v Speaker 1>the shoulders of giants, starting with his own mentor Buyer Rusting,

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<v Speaker 1>a tireless activist who organized the March on Washington and

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<v Speaker 1>transformed the civil rights movement into a powerful force from

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<v Speaker 1>behind the scenes. The man who believes in non violence

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<v Speaker 1>is prepared to be hard to be crushed, but he

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<v Speaker 1>will never crush others. Buyer Rustin's own arsenal of non

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<v Speaker 1>violent tactics, in turn, were borrowed from a remarkable Indian

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<v Speaker 1>I regard my tiv as a soldier Bill as a

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<v Speaker 1>young lawyer. Mahandas Gandhi learned about the potential of non

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<v Speaker 1>violence from another larger than life figure. After he accepted

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<v Speaker 1>passive resistance, he wanted to learn a little bit more

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<v Speaker 1>about it from Tolstoy, and so he started a correspondence

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<v Speaker 1>with him, which we went on for several years. Meccan

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<v Speaker 1>for Leo Tolstoy. In his youth, the Russian wrote two

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<v Speaker 1>of the most famous novels ever written. Then he underwent

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<v Speaker 1>an awaken one that led him to a means for

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<v Speaker 1>translating spiritual love into a force for political resistance. He

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<v Speaker 1>didn't want to really have to deal at all with

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<v Speaker 1>coercion at any level. And this is really the sort

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<v Speaker 1>of heart of the idea of non violence and what

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<v Speaker 1>so inspired him about William Lloyd Garrison too, the American

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<v Speaker 1>abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison, the man who influenced Tolstoy, was

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<v Speaker 1>really the first thinker to realize the potential of mass

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<v Speaker 1>nonviolent resistance. But the launch of Garrison's big idea and

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<v Speaker 1>his influential anti slavery newspaper depended up on another made.

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<v Speaker 1>In this final episode of the Thread, we'll learn about

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<v Speaker 1>that man and the single act of love for an

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<v Speaker 1>enemy that kick starts our entire thread. We'll also tie

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<v Speaker 1>together some of the themes that unite our history of

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<v Speaker 1>non violence and find out about some of the surprising

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<v Speaker 1>traits shared by the historical figures we've covered this season. Finally,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll look at the history of non violence in the

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<v Speaker 1>fifty years since Dr King's death and how this revolutionary

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<v Speaker 1>idea continues to change the world. In the last episode,

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<v Speaker 1>we learned about how William Lloyd Garrison founded a newspaper

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<v Speaker 1>called The Liberator. In one historian Bruce Laurie, Garrison's Liberator

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<v Speaker 1>is the most important anti slavery newspaper in the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>some would argue, in the world. In the pages of

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<v Speaker 1>The Liberator, the white abolitionist argued not only for the

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<v Speaker 1>end of slavery in the United States, but also for

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<v Speaker 1>improving the treatment of all African Americans. To get his

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<v Speaker 1>messag joubt, Garrison depended heavily upon local black communities. At

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<v Speaker 1>least three quarters of readership is black, very unusual for

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<v Speaker 1>the time because he was one of the few whites

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<v Speaker 1>who openly espoused the quality. Garrison also cultivated relationships with

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<v Speaker 1>prominent black intellectuals, business leaders, and activists in northern cities,

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<v Speaker 1>and what would become the most important anti slavery publication

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<v Speaker 1>in American history would never have made it off the

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<v Speaker 1>presses if not for one prominent black businessman, in particular,

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<v Speaker 1>a salemaker from Philadelphia named James Forton. The twenty five

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<v Speaker 1>year old Garrison reached out to Forton for help in

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<v Speaker 1>December eighteen thirty. The mock up of the very first

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<v Speaker 1>issue of The Liberator was ready to print, but Garrison

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<v Speaker 1>had a big problem. He could not afford the paper

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<v Speaker 1>required for its first print run, and so had to

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<v Speaker 1>pay for it on credit. The day the bill came due,

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<v Speaker 1>Garrison still did not have the money, but that very

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<v Speaker 1>same day Garrison and received a letter from the wealthy businessman.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Forton biographer Julie Wench. He sends Garrison a

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<v Speaker 1>draft for fifty four dollars, which is a substantial amount

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<v Speaker 1>of money for Garrison. It was a life raft at

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<v Speaker 1>a critical moment in his new venture. He often credited

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<v Speaker 1>Forton with making the Liberator possible. But fort in support

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<v Speaker 1>of Garrison, did not stop with that first issue. And

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<v Speaker 1>he is just always there for Garrison, and that is

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<v Speaker 1>so important. Garrison doesn't have that many friends, black or white.

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<v Speaker 1>He is from a fairly poor background himself, so he

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<v Speaker 1>does not have inherited money and inherited connections to rely on.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is what Forton really comes out for for

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<v Speaker 1>him and assists him with. And not just once, but repeatedly.

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<v Speaker 1>Garrison and Forton became close friends, and fort never refused

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<v Speaker 1>his friends please for help. So this is somebody who

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<v Speaker 1>gives everything he has, uh just being generous in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of money, but giving energy and moral support and friendship

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<v Speaker 1>two people black or white, whose support what he thinks

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<v Speaker 1>will make America a better place. Forton had been a

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<v Speaker 1>leading figure in Philadelphia's black community and had been fighting

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<v Speaker 1>to end slavery before Garrison was even born. He had

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<v Speaker 1>overcome incredible odds as a black man to make his

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<v Speaker 1>way in the business world in a mass of fortune.

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<v Speaker 1>But despite the obstacles he had encountered in his life

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<v Speaker 1>and his hatred of slavery, Forton was a devoted patriot

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<v Speaker 1>who believed in the ideals of the young nation he

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<v Speaker 1>had grown up in. When the American Colonies went to

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<v Speaker 1>war with the British, Forton enlisted to fight. He was

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<v Speaker 1>just fourteen years old, and it was during the Revolutionary

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<v Speaker 1>War that the man who made William Lloyd Garrison's career

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<v Speaker 1>possible nearly became a slave himsel elf. Indeed, Forton's fate

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<v Speaker 1>and that of our entire thread, turn on a single

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<v Speaker 1>game of marbles. When the Revolutionary War began, the young

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<v Speaker 1>James Forton joined the war effort as a sailor in

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<v Speaker 1>the ship he was aboard was pursued and attacked by

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<v Speaker 1>a British vessel just off the coast of Virginia Julie Winch. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>the British vessel is bigger, more heavily manned, and the

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<v Speaker 1>American vessel is forced to surrender, at which point Foughton

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<v Speaker 1>and all the other people on board become prisoners of

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<v Speaker 1>the British. Fort knew fullwell what happened to most black

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<v Speaker 1>men who were taken as prisoners of war by the British.

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<v Speaker 1>They were shipped off to the West Indies and doomed

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<v Speaker 1>to a life of slavery. Luckily, for the teenage Forton,

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<v Speaker 1>Captain John Baisley, the man in charge of the British

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<v Speaker 1>ship that had taken him prisoner, had his own problem,

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<v Speaker 1>his twelve year old son, Henry. And apparently the twelve

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<v Speaker 1>year old is board and his father is trying to

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<v Speaker 1>find somebody just to keep an eye on him. He

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<v Speaker 1>cannot have any of his own sailors do this. He

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<v Speaker 1>can't take men out of a gun crew and have

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<v Speaker 1>them babysaid as kid. So he's going to use one

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<v Speaker 1>of the prisoners to do it. And he's obviously looking

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<v Speaker 1>for somebody close to his son's age, and he lights

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<v Speaker 1>upon Forton, and so Captain Baisley enlists Forton to keep

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<v Speaker 1>his son company and keep him out of trouble on

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<v Speaker 1>the warship. The two youngsters hit it off and fought

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<v Speaker 1>in apparently, cements his friendship with the young British boy

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<v Speaker 1>through a game of marbles on the gun deck. That

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<v Speaker 1>game of marble's captures the boy's imagination, and the captain

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<v Speaker 1>is impressed by the good influence that Forton is having

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<v Speaker 1>on his son. The friendship between Forton and young Henry

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<v Speaker 1>aboard the ship deepens in the coming weeks, and when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes time for the British prisoners to be offloaded,

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<v Speaker 1>and the black ones among them to be shipped off

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<v Speaker 1>to the West Indies. Captain Baisley intervenes to ensure that

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<v Speaker 1>Forton is not among them. He never forgot Captain Baisley's kindness.

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<v Speaker 1>The story that James Funton tells friends and relatives is

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<v Speaker 1>that he really believed that had the baseless not taken

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<v Speaker 1>a liking to him and this friendship that's really cemented

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<v Speaker 1>by this play of a game of marbles, uh that

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<v Speaker 1>he could have been sold into slavery in the West End.

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<v Speaker 1>Is So, this is something he really sees as one

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<v Speaker 1>of those events in his life that's absolutely pivotal, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's pivotal to our threat as well. Think about it.

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<v Speaker 1>In a game of marbles between two boys takes place

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<v Speaker 1>aboard the deck of a British warship in the Atlantic Ocean,

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<v Speaker 1>a friendship ensues. As a result, a young black man,

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<v Speaker 1>James Forton, is given in his freedom through a single

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<v Speaker 1>act of love and understanding from a sworn enemy, sparking

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<v Speaker 1>a series of events that will culminate two centuries later

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<v Speaker 1>with another young black man, Martin Luther King Jr. Becoming

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<v Speaker 1>the embodiment of the idea that loving one's enemy is

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<v Speaker 1>the best way to achieve one's freedom. In that way,

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<v Speaker 1>our story comes full circle from the American colonies of

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<v Speaker 1>the eighteenth century to the civil rights movement of the

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<v Speaker 1>twenty Indeed, the non violent idea that James Forton helped

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<v Speaker 1>unleash did more than just change the way that ordinary

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<v Speaker 1>citizens protest injustice. It helped to redeem the promise of

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<v Speaker 1>an entire nation. Up next, we find out about some

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<v Speaker 1>of the surprising traits shared by the historical figures we've

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<v Speaker 1>covered this season. From its beginning, the history of America

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<v Speaker 1>has been one that is steeped in blood and violence,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the end, the question of slavery in the

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<v Speaker 1>US could only be resolved to the massive loss of

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<v Speaker 1>human life. Martin Luther King, by Ed Rustin, and the

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<v Speaker 1>leaders of the U s Civil rights movement chose to

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<v Speaker 1>pursue widespread social change in a different way, one that

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<v Speaker 1>required the difficult decision to jettison violence and choose love

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<v Speaker 1>over hate. This is King in nineteen sixty six talking

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<v Speaker 1>about the message that non violence sends to one's opponents.

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<v Speaker 1>We will match your capacity to inflict suffering our capacity

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<v Speaker 1>to endure suffering. We will meet your physical force with

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<v Speaker 1>soul force. Do to us what you will, and we

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<v Speaker 1>will still love you. King had a name for the

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<v Speaker 1>redemptive potential of non violence, the power of love to

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<v Speaker 1>redeem not only the oppressed, but the oppressor as well.

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<v Speaker 1>He called it quote a double victory. And one day

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<v Speaker 1>we will win our freedom, but we will not only

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<v Speaker 1>win freedom for ourselves. We will show appeal to your

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<v Speaker 1>heart and your conscience that we will win you in

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<v Speaker 1>the process, and our victory will be a double victory.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is what made the nonviolent protests of the

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<v Speaker 1>civil rights movement such a remarkable force for change in

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<v Speaker 1>American history. King Ruston and others succeeded where previous activists

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<v Speaker 1>had failed, and what they accomplished through non violence, imperfect

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<v Speaker 1>and incomplete as it was, was in many ways more

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<v Speaker 1>impressive than any American war victory because it was a

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<v Speaker 1>double victory. Indeed, those who fought and struggled peacefully to

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<v Speaker 1>win both their rights and the hearts of their oppressors

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<v Speaker 1>deserve a special place in history. King and the famous

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<v Speaker 1>letter he wrote while imprisoned in the Birmingham jail claimed, quote,

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<v Speaker 1>one day the South will recognize its real heroes. He

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<v Speaker 1>did not mean its Confederate war heroes. King meant the

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<v Speaker 1>grand mothers who walked miles to work rather than to

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<v Speaker 1>ride on a segregated bus, The students who refused to

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<v Speaker 1>give up their seats at a lunch counter, the demonstrators

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<v Speaker 1>who faced down the hoses and the police dogs. What

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<v Speaker 1>King and Rustin and before them William Lloyd Garrison accomplished

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<v Speaker 1>through non violence was not just the redemption of their

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<v Speaker 1>immediate opponents, but the redemption of the very idea of

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<v Speaker 1>a nation dedicated to the proposition that all are created equal.

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<v Speaker 1>So where does such a capacity for helping others, including

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<v Speaker 1>one sworn enemies come from? How did Gandhi, King, Rustin

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<v Speaker 1>and other leaders managed to adhere to their message of

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<v Speaker 1>love even when confronted with overwhelming violence and hatred. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>it starts with a trait that we don't usually praise,

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<v Speaker 1>one we even stigmatize, maladjustment. King often talked about this.

0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:57.120
<v Speaker 1>Modern psychology has a word that is probably used more

0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:01.360
<v Speaker 1>than any other word in psychology is a word maladjusted.

0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 1>This is King at U c l a in n.

0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Certainly we all want to live the well adjusted life.

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:13.360
<v Speaker 1>In order to avoid new rotican schizophrenic personality. And I

0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:17.240
<v Speaker 1>must honestly say to you this afternoon, my friends, they're

0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:20.320
<v Speaker 1>some things within our world, in our nations, of which

0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:24.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm proud to be maladjusted, but I never intend to

0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:28.160
<v Speaker 1>become adjusted to segregation and discrimination. King would go on

0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.560
<v Speaker 1>to add the quote human salvation lies in the hands

0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:35.880
<v Speaker 1>of the creatively maladjusted. He was right, and even more

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:45.880
<v Speaker 1>than he ever knew, Martin Luther King Jr. Believed that

0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.960
<v Speaker 1>being maladjusted to the world and to the status quo

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.640
<v Speaker 1>was essential to the fight against injustice. But it was

0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:54.840
<v Speaker 1>also a big part of what made King the leader

0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.520
<v Speaker 1>he was. This is the Seer Gami. He's a psychiatrist

0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.040
<v Speaker 1>at Tufts University and Harvard Medical School who studies depression

0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.760
<v Speaker 1>and bipolar illness, and who has written about leaders who

0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.840
<v Speaker 1>have suffered from manic depressive illnesses. So I think King's

0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:13.000
<v Speaker 1>idea was that we need to be maladjusted enough with

0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.720
<v Speaker 1>the world to want to change it for the better.

0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.480
<v Speaker 1>My view is that this is not a purely intellectual

0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 1>concept or even a purely spiritual one, although it certainly

0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.600
<v Speaker 1>has aspects of both. I think it's also emotional and

0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:30.520
<v Speaker 1>psychological in that King himself, being depressed as well as

0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:34.640
<v Speaker 1>having manic symptoms as part of his personality, was maladjusted

0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.520
<v Speaker 1>to the world as it was as a human being.

0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.160
<v Speaker 1>That's right, Martin Luther King Jr. Almost certainly suffered from

0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:46.360
<v Speaker 1>manic depression. He was clinically maladjusted. King experienced depression during

0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:50.680
<v Speaker 1>his adolescence, which manifested itself in two suicide attempts, but

0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.640
<v Speaker 1>it went beyond that. He had periods of depression throughout

0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:55.840
<v Speaker 1>his life where he would, for a few days to

0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.880
<v Speaker 1>a few weeks, often need to go into a medical hospital.

0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.800
<v Speaker 1>He was hospitalized for exhaustion was the diagnosis that was

0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.480
<v Speaker 1>frequently given, but he never had any physical medical cause

0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 1>for his hospitalizations. King was often in despair. Near the

0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.600
<v Speaker 1>end of his life. He lamented that his dream had

0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:15.760
<v Speaker 1>turned into a nightmare and he was likely in the

0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.440
<v Speaker 1>grips of a deepening depression when he was murdered fifty

0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.879
<v Speaker 1>years ago in Memphis, Tennessee. King was not alone in

0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.879
<v Speaker 1>his battles with depression. Mahandas Gandhi also suffered several bouts

0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.480
<v Speaker 1>of severe depression in his life, starting in adolescence when

0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.200
<v Speaker 1>he was around twelve years old. He decided to kill

0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.439
<v Speaker 1>himself and went with a friend to a temple with

0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.200
<v Speaker 1>poison and was on the verge of taking it until

0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.360
<v Speaker 1>he backed out at the last second, and as with King,

0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:42.800
<v Speaker 1>it did not end there. And then later in his

0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.439
<v Speaker 1>life he would have periods of time where for a

0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:47.760
<v Speaker 1>week or a couple of weeks, he would just take

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.879
<v Speaker 1>to his bed. He would feel very sick physically, and

0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.359
<v Speaker 1>doctors would tell him that there was nothing medically wrong

0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.080
<v Speaker 1>with him, but he would describe how he would go

0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.679
<v Speaker 1>to bed at night and be convinced that he was

0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:02.800
<v Speaker 1>going to die. Another champion of non violence who could

0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.920
<v Speaker 1>identify with such experiences was Leo Tolstoy. This is Tolstoy

0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:13.439
<v Speaker 1>biographer J. Parini Tolstoy was bordering on bipolar. He he

0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.399
<v Speaker 1>seemed to have, you know, periods of extreme exhilaration with

0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.560
<v Speaker 1>periods of very dark depression, and he often talked to

0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:24.120
<v Speaker 1>his friends about wanting to commit suicide. Tolstoy's own psychological condition, however,

0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.800
<v Speaker 1>is also arguably what made him such a good novelist,

0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.160
<v Speaker 1>and like Gandhi and King, it gave him a profound

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:34.440
<v Speaker 1>sense of empathy. Why is empathy so important? Because it

0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:38.520
<v Speaker 1>is the secret ingredient of non violence. Gandhi once said

0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.399
<v Speaker 1>three four of the miseries and misunderstandings in the world

0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.560
<v Speaker 1>will disappear if we step into the shoes of our

0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:50.280
<v Speaker 1>adversaries and understand their standpoint. Stepping into the shoes of

0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.199
<v Speaker 1>your adversary is not an easy thing to do, but

0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:57.320
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't as hard for individuals like King Gandhi and Tolstoy.

0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.919
<v Speaker 1>And we are starting to understand why that's the King.

0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.679
<v Speaker 1>So there's research that shows that people who have depression

0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.800
<v Speaker 1>are more empathic than people who don't have depression. The

0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.400
<v Speaker 1>year got me again. We know that. What we don't

0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.359
<v Speaker 1>really know the how and why we know that people

0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.480
<v Speaker 1>are depressed or more empathic. Um. Now, if I were

0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.600
<v Speaker 1>to speculate about it, I've talked to patients of mind

0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:23.720
<v Speaker 1>who have had depression, and they describe that when they're

0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.639
<v Speaker 1>depressed and in amount a great deal of psychological pain,

0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:32.560
<v Speaker 1>and they can understand the pain of others more they

0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.840
<v Speaker 1>feel the pain of others. One patient of mine once

0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.959
<v Speaker 1>said that when she was really depressed, she could barely

0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:42.040
<v Speaker 1>walk outside because she could feel every blade of grass

0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:46.439
<v Speaker 1>crumble under her feet. And um. Most of us who

0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.040
<v Speaker 1>are not depressed most of the time, just ignore those things.

0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.919
<v Speaker 1>In other words, dealing with depression is painful, but in

0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.920
<v Speaker 1>some ways, depressed people see reality more clearly than others do,

0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.880
<v Speaker 1>and that experience deepens their natural empathy for those around them.

0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.359
<v Speaker 1>I think of non violence as radical empathy. And Um,

0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.840
<v Speaker 1>you can turn the other cheek and not strike back

0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:12.439
<v Speaker 1>because you care about the other person who's hitting you. Uh,

0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.400
<v Speaker 1>that's a very hard thing for a human being to achieve. Gandhi,

0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:20.360
<v Speaker 1>King and Tolstoy not only shared a philosophy of non violence,

0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:24.560
<v Speaker 1>but also a very similar psychological profile. My thinking is

0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.480
<v Speaker 1>that that these aren't coincidences, that the reason they took

0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:32.520
<v Speaker 1>this political philosophy of nonviolent change has to do in

0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.240
<v Speaker 1>part with the fact that they had experienced depression repeatedly

0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.480
<v Speaker 1>in their lives. Enhanced empathy, though, is only part of

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.639
<v Speaker 1>the equation. J Parini again, people who live on the

0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:48.240
<v Speaker 1>edges like Gandhi, Um, Martin Luther King. These are people

0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:52.160
<v Speaker 1>who are visionaries and who can see both the very

0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:54.880
<v Speaker 1>bright sun and the very dark sky. And I think

0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.080
<v Speaker 1>that they they swing between yes and no all the time.

0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.520
<v Speaker 1>And I think Tolstoy was always hovering between the yes

0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.280
<v Speaker 1>and the no. And if the no side of things

0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.560
<v Speaker 1>led such visionaries into a greater sense of empathy, the

0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:11.240
<v Speaker 1>yes side, the manic side drove them to excel in

0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:15.080
<v Speaker 1>an entirely different way. Many people don't understand what mania means,

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:19.119
<v Speaker 1>or the term to them is um pejorative. All it

0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:21.720
<v Speaker 1>really means is that you talk fast, you move fast,

0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.479
<v Speaker 1>you think fast, you have a lot of energy. Usually

0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:28.040
<v Speaker 1>such persons are very productive. Take Martin Luther King. Usually

0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:31.280
<v Speaker 1>Dr King was very high energy, both physically and sexually.

0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:33.960
<v Speaker 1>He only needed about four hours of sleep at night

0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:36.840
<v Speaker 1>or buyer d resting, So generally he was a high

0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.600
<v Speaker 1>energy person with a high sexual drive, who spent a

0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:42.680
<v Speaker 1>lot of money, who was very flamboyant and very talkative,

0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:46.159
<v Speaker 1>and very creative. In fact, steadies show that having manic

0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:48.800
<v Speaker 1>symptoms as part of your personality can help make you

0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:52.560
<v Speaker 1>both more creative and more resilient. You are less likely

0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:56.160
<v Speaker 1>to experience major traumas or stress even in the face

0:21:56.240 --> 0:22:00.160
<v Speaker 1>of incredible adversity, and that is precisely what you need

0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:03.240
<v Speaker 1>in a nonviolent leader. One thing you can say about

0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:05.280
<v Speaker 1>all of them is that they had a lot of courage,

0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.880
<v Speaker 1>and you can especially say that about Dr King perhaps

0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:12.520
<v Speaker 1>the most, but also Gandhi certainly and Rusten. They had

0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.440
<v Speaker 1>a lot of personal courage. They were not scared by

0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:20.080
<v Speaker 1>people easily um or if they were scared, they didn't

0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:24.200
<v Speaker 1>let that fear stop them from being true to their principles.

0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:26.640
<v Speaker 1>And they were able not only to channel their own

0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.920
<v Speaker 1>energy and aggressive impulses into the courage needed to resist violence,

0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:33.240
<v Speaker 1>they were able to show their followers how to do

0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:36.280
<v Speaker 1>the same. But their examples teach us about much more

0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:40.280
<v Speaker 1>than just how to battle injustice. So Gandhi and King

0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:44.960
<v Speaker 1>and Rusten are important because they were trying to to

0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:49.520
<v Speaker 1>change our mindset on race and and sexuality. But at

0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:51.960
<v Speaker 1>the same time, if we understand them well, we have

0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:55.760
<v Speaker 1>to change our mindset around psychiatric illness. And I think

0:22:55.800 --> 0:23:01.200
<v Speaker 1>that's an important, important aspect of really knowing who they were.

0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:06.399
<v Speaker 1>The legacy of non violence continues to be felt today.

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Up next, we look at some of the most powerful

0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:11.840
<v Speaker 1>examples of non violent protests in the fifty years since

0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:15.640
<v Speaker 1>Dr King's death, and here about new scientific research confirming

0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:18.919
<v Speaker 1>just how effective non violence is as a means for

0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:42.320
<v Speaker 1>accomplishing social change. The twentieth century was an extremely violent one,

0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:45.199
<v Speaker 1>almost two million people died in war by the end

0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:48.320
<v Speaker 1>of it. But the century also witnessed the emergence of

0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:51.400
<v Speaker 1>non violent protests on a whole new scale, and well

0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:54.359
<v Speaker 1>beyond those we have covered in our particular Threat of History.

0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:58.080
<v Speaker 1>This season, in the wake of Gandhi's Indian Independence movement

0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:01.600
<v Speaker 1>and the Civil Rights Movement, peaceful demonstrations seemed to break

0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:05.440
<v Speaker 1>out everywhere. This is Bayard Rustin talking about the impact

0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:09.320
<v Speaker 1>of the Civil Rights movement. I think the movement contributed

0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:16.560
<v Speaker 1>this nation a sense of universal freedom. The fact that

0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:19.960
<v Speaker 1>the people who were against the war in Vietnam saw

0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:24.160
<v Speaker 1>us go into the street and win made it possible

0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:26.080
<v Speaker 1>for them to have the courage to go into the

0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:31.320
<v Speaker 1>street and win. Thousands of demonstrators opposed to the Vietnam

0:24:31.440 --> 0:24:34.760
<v Speaker 1>war assembled in the nation's capital for a mass protest,

0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:37.760
<v Speaker 1>convinced they could take to the streets and win. Millions

0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:40.280
<v Speaker 1>of American women started a new movement during the nineteen

0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:49.639
<v Speaker 1>seventies to demand change. Across the world, non violent scored

0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:53.760
<v Speaker 1>major victories. During the late nineteen eighties, non violent protesters

0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:56.520
<v Speaker 1>in the former Soviet Union gathered in the streets to

0:24:56.560 --> 0:25:00.560
<v Speaker 1>sing band patriotic songs and defiance of their occupiers. It

0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:04.600
<v Speaker 1>became known as the Singing Revolution and it worked across

0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Eastern Europe. Millions of people from the Baltic States to

0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:11.600
<v Speaker 1>Hungary and Czechoslovakia also refused to cooperate in their own oppression.

0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:15.560
<v Speaker 1>This is Mark Kurlansky, author of non Violence, The History

0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:18.600
<v Speaker 1>of a Dangerous Idea. The whole downfall of the Soviet

0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:22.600
<v Speaker 1>Union was done without violence. You know, the Soviet Union

0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:30.080
<v Speaker 1>was a powerful and violent force that was completely destabilized

0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:34.360
<v Speaker 1>and overthrown without the use of violence. By non cooperation.

0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:38.000
<v Speaker 1>In some places, non violent protests has become the new norm.

0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:42.800
<v Speaker 1>Most of the political movements in the US since the

0:25:42.840 --> 0:25:47.400
<v Speaker 1>Civil Rights Movement have been essentially non violent movements. There

0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:51.600
<v Speaker 1>has become a pretty deep tradition in this country of

0:25:51.680 --> 0:25:55.440
<v Speaker 1>resisting non violently, and in an age of information and

0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:59.440
<v Speaker 1>social media, those non violent protest movements continue to evolve.

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:02.600
<v Speaker 1>This year, after a school shooting at a high school

0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:05.520
<v Speaker 1>in Parkland, Florida, a group of students banded together to

0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:09.280
<v Speaker 1>push for gun control reforms. Then it's time for victims

0:26:09.320 --> 0:26:14.760
<v Speaker 1>to be the change that we need to see. The

0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:17.720
<v Speaker 1>Parkland protest movement, which became known as the March for

0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:21.520
<v Speaker 1>Our Lives drew on past American protest movements, but it

0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:24.320
<v Speaker 1>also transcended them in new ways. I don't think it

0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:26.320
<v Speaker 1>was a conscious choice that, you know, we're going to

0:26:26.359 --> 0:26:29.960
<v Speaker 1>be non violent because it's effective. This is reporter Alex Dockerty,

0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:33.280
<v Speaker 1>the Washington correspondent for the Miami Herald. What I think

0:26:33.359 --> 0:26:36.960
<v Speaker 1>makes the advocacy that the March for Our Lives students

0:26:36.960 --> 0:26:40.640
<v Speaker 1>engaged in so unique was that it didn't come from

0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:44.520
<v Speaker 1>a Martin Luther King or an older figure saying, look,

0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:46.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, it would be a very powerful message to

0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:48.679
<v Speaker 1>have the kids on our side and to have the

0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:52.159
<v Speaker 1>kids conveying our argument. It was the kids themselves driving

0:26:52.160 --> 0:26:55.399
<v Speaker 1>that argument. Another recent example of new voices driving an

0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:58.920
<v Speaker 1>argument through non violent resistance is the group of professional

0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:02.320
<v Speaker 1>football players led by Colin Kaepernick, that began kneeling during

0:27:02.359 --> 0:27:05.880
<v Speaker 1>the national anthem to draw attention to police brutality in America.

0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:09.600
<v Speaker 1>It's the rare occasion when sports and politics collide at

0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:13.479
<v Speaker 1>an NFL quarterback has has certainly ignited a firestorm. We're

0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:16.600
<v Speaker 1>talking about Colin Kaepernick. Kaepernick's protest has been called divisive

0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:19.639
<v Speaker 1>and unpatriotic, and he has been criticized by everyone from

0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:23.479
<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg to President Donald Trump.

0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:26.280
<v Speaker 1>Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners

0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:30.840
<v Speaker 1>when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, get that son

0:27:30.880 --> 0:27:34.360
<v Speaker 1>of a drop the field right now out. He's fired.

0:27:35.400 --> 0:27:37.440
<v Speaker 1>But one thing that nobody has done with respect to

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:41.399
<v Speaker 1>Kaepernick is ignore him. The non violent protests that leaders

0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:44.720
<v Speaker 1>like King and Rustin let in places like Birmingham, were,

0:27:45.080 --> 0:27:49.520
<v Speaker 1>like Kaepernick's kneeling, designed to be divisive to get people's attention.

0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:53.119
<v Speaker 1>Kaepernick is a troublemaker, and as we have learned this season,

0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:58.679
<v Speaker 1>non violent troublemakers can accomplish a surprising amount. Why it

0:27:58.720 --> 0:28:01.360
<v Speaker 1>turns out that non violent is a very effective tactic

0:28:01.400 --> 0:28:04.720
<v Speaker 1>for achieving social change, and we are only now starting

0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:13.320
<v Speaker 1>to understand just how profound its impact can be. Love,

0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:17.919
<v Speaker 1>the soul force, whatever you want to call organized nonviolent resistance,

0:28:18.440 --> 0:28:21.000
<v Speaker 1>is not only a moral force, it is also a

0:28:21.040 --> 0:28:26.240
<v Speaker 1>highly effective one. Gandhi realized this fact early on Mark Kurlansky.

0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:28.880
<v Speaker 1>He said, we don't have to worry about people who

0:28:29.560 --> 0:28:32.399
<v Speaker 1>don't believe it will work, because it's like gravity. It

0:28:32.440 --> 0:28:35.240
<v Speaker 1>will work whether we believe in it or not, and

0:28:35.359 --> 0:28:38.760
<v Speaker 1>recent research by two American political scientists appears to back

0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:44.040
<v Speaker 1>up Gandhi's intuition. Kit Miller, there's a substantial research study

0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:46.840
<v Speaker 1>that was done by Erica Chenowit and her colleague Maria

0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:52.600
<v Speaker 1>Stephen studying two hundred and six occurrences of of non

0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:55.680
<v Speaker 1>violent when it was used to deal with issues of

0:28:55.720 --> 0:28:59.600
<v Speaker 1>conflict between the years and two thousand six. The study

0:28:59.640 --> 0:29:02.640
<v Speaker 1>found the campaigns of non violent resistance were more than

0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:06.840
<v Speaker 1>twice as effective as their violent counterparts. Non violent campaigns

0:29:06.840 --> 0:29:10.040
<v Speaker 1>were more likely to usher in peaceful, democratic governments and

0:29:10.120 --> 0:29:12.880
<v Speaker 1>to ensure that nations did not relapse into violence or

0:29:12.880 --> 0:29:17.440
<v Speaker 1>civil war. Why do these campaigns work. The research suggests

0:29:17.440 --> 0:29:20.240
<v Speaker 1>that non violent protests not only attract more people into

0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:23.640
<v Speaker 1>their ranks, but a more diverse set of people. The

0:29:23.680 --> 0:29:26.440
<v Speaker 1>fact that protesters don't resort to violence also means that

0:29:26.480 --> 0:29:29.560
<v Speaker 1>they are more likely to receive broad public support, not

0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:33.000
<v Speaker 1>to mention sympathy from the soldiers or police officers whose

0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:37.000
<v Speaker 1>job it is to put down the resistance. Non Violence, however,

0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:39.920
<v Speaker 1>is no silver bullet when it comes to achieving freedom

0:29:39.960 --> 0:29:44.640
<v Speaker 1>and reform. Mark Kurlanski, and you know doesn't always work.

0:29:44.760 --> 0:29:48.200
<v Speaker 1>The Tibetans have been non violently resisting the Chinese for

0:29:48.480 --> 0:29:53.120
<v Speaker 1>decades and seemed not to be getting anywhere. And sometimes

0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:56.120
<v Speaker 1>such movements don't even get off the ground. And Israeli

0:29:56.200 --> 0:29:58.480
<v Speaker 1>general said to me, you know, you're just never going

0:29:58.560 --> 0:30:02.560
<v Speaker 1>to convince anybody of the here because it's the Middle East.

0:30:03.400 --> 0:30:06.320
<v Speaker 1>It's really too bad. I mean, the Palestinians could be

0:30:06.400 --> 0:30:11.480
<v Speaker 1>so effective against the Israelis with non violence. It is

0:30:11.520 --> 0:30:14.920
<v Speaker 1>not easy to love one's enemies. Anger is a powerful force,

0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:17.760
<v Speaker 1>and overcoming it requires each of us to engage in

0:30:17.800 --> 0:30:21.440
<v Speaker 1>a personal transformation. That is something that are ruined. Gandhi

0:30:21.520 --> 0:30:23.800
<v Speaker 1>learned from his grandfather when he came to stay with

0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:26.560
<v Speaker 1>him as a teenager. If we want to put out

0:30:26.680 --> 0:30:29.520
<v Speaker 1>that trial of physical violence, we have to cut off

0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:33.400
<v Speaker 1>the fuel supply. And since the fuel supply comes from

0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:37.160
<v Speaker 1>each one of us, we have to become the change

0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:40.280
<v Speaker 1>we wish to see in the world, and change begins

0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:44.600
<v Speaker 1>with individual acts of sacrifice and kindness, not mass social movements.

0:30:45.160 --> 0:30:48.160
<v Speaker 1>This is civil rights leader Timothy Jenkins think one of

0:30:48.160 --> 0:30:53.000
<v Speaker 1>the things we need to remember is that small efforts

0:30:53.240 --> 0:30:58.760
<v Speaker 1>can become big efforts if they're persistently followed. When dr

0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:04.520
<v Speaker 1>king and by arresting and others UH were able to

0:31:04.520 --> 0:31:07.960
<v Speaker 1>get things started. They were not a majority, they were

0:31:07.960 --> 0:31:11.680
<v Speaker 1>not even a movement. They were just individuals who were committed.

0:31:12.360 --> 0:31:15.160
<v Speaker 1>It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness,

0:31:15.800 --> 0:31:18.920
<v Speaker 1>and they lit a candle and they were able to

0:31:18.960 --> 0:31:25.120
<v Speaker 1>overcome the darkness. And one of the big reasons that

0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:27.800
<v Speaker 1>King and others were able to overcome that darkness and

0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:31.200
<v Speaker 1>the power of the organized violence aligned against them was

0:31:31.240 --> 0:31:33.520
<v Speaker 1>because of the fact that the candle they were using

0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:36.200
<v Speaker 1>was lit by the flame of love. Less than a

0:31:36.280 --> 0:31:39.959
<v Speaker 1>year after the successful Montgomery bus boycott, doctor King delivered

0:31:40.000 --> 0:31:43.040
<v Speaker 1>a sermon at the Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery

0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:46.400
<v Speaker 1>called Loving Your Enemies. He talked about how responding to

0:31:46.440 --> 0:31:50.880
<v Speaker 1>injustice with violence creates more problems than it solves. But

0:31:51.240 --> 0:31:55.200
<v Speaker 1>according to King, there was another way. That is to

0:31:55.440 --> 0:32:00.120
<v Speaker 1>all the nine math non violent resistance based on the

0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:03.720
<v Speaker 1>principle of love. It seems to me that this is

0:32:03.720 --> 0:32:07.200
<v Speaker 1>the only way. Its eyes look to the kitten. As

0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:10.080
<v Speaker 1>we look out across the years and across the generation,

0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:15.320
<v Speaker 1>let us develop and move right here. We must discover

0:32:16.040 --> 0:32:21.400
<v Speaker 1>the power of love, the power of the empty power

0:32:21.400 --> 0:32:24.240
<v Speaker 1>of love. And when we discover that we will be

0:32:24.320 --> 0:32:27.760
<v Speaker 1>able to make them this old world a new world.

0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:33.080
<v Speaker 1>We will be able to make men better. Love is

0:32:33.080 --> 0:32:47.880
<v Speaker 1>the only way we are solgers in. We had to find,

0:32:50.520 --> 0:32:59.280
<v Speaker 1>We had to all God. We got to all up.

0:33:03.920 --> 0:33:07.000
<v Speaker 1>The Thread is produced by Libby Coleman, Robert Coulos, Sofia

0:33:07.080 --> 0:33:11.000
<v Speaker 1>Perpetua and me Sean braswell. Chris Hoff engineered our show.

0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:14.640
<v Speaker 1>This episode features the Montgomery Gospel Choir with a song

0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:17.800
<v Speaker 1>called We Are Soldiers. To learn more about The Thread,

0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:21.320
<v Speaker 1>visit ausi dot com, Slash the Thread all one word,

0:33:21.760 --> 0:33:24.600
<v Speaker 1>and make sure to subscribe to The Thread on Apple podcasts,

0:33:24.800 --> 0:33:27.480
<v Speaker 1>follow us on I Heart Radio or listen wherever you

0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:30.560
<v Speaker 1>get your podcasts. Check us out at Aussie dot com

0:33:30.680 --> 0:33:34.040
<v Speaker 1>or on Twitter and Facebook. If you love surprising, engaging

0:33:34.080 --> 0:33:37.479
<v Speaker 1>stories from history, look no further than the flashback section

0:33:37.520 --> 0:33:40.440
<v Speaker 1>of ausy dot com. That's o z y dot com.

0:33:41.840 --> 0:33:49.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm a soldier, I've got my hands on the gospel.

0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:57.560
<v Speaker 1>One day, gett and a cat fought anymore, but Austin,

0:34:02.840 --> 0:34:10.960
<v Speaker 1>we are so in the amy. We got to find

0:34:11.080 --> 0:34:17.040
<v Speaker 1>out all we have to find. We've got to all

0:34:17.640 --> 0:34:23.600
<v Speaker 1>up the blast. Stay bab got t to all eat

0:34:23.760 --> 0:34:26.160
<v Speaker 1>up until he die.