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Speaker 1: This is the business of sports. Should Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: shorten up the season? How do we present football to

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Speaker 1: the audience of the future. I don't think that most

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Speaker 1: players understand the power that they have. The future of

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Speaker 1: IndyCar racing is looking bright. Scott Sahn, very basic math here,

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Speaker 1: more bidders means more money. Evan Nobody Williams. The team

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Speaker 1: value has essentially quadruples. And the leaders in the sports

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Speaker 1: industry time to bring in our guest, Holstlibrunner, National Hockey

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Speaker 1: League Commissioner Gary Betman, Atlanta Braves president Derek Schiller, Patriots

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Speaker 1: President Jonathan Kraft. Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hello,

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Speaker 1: I'm Scott, I'm Evan Noby Williams, and I'm Michael Barr.

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Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast where you

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Speaker 1: and I jumping Man, No fine, we explore the big

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Speaker 1: money issues in the world of sports. Oh my goodness, gracious,

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Speaker 1: this is why the NBA is the perfect food for sports.

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Speaker 1: Because of what happened well last year an okay, see fan,

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Speaker 1: because what happened with Damian Lillard with the Portland Trailblazers.

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Speaker 1: In a last second buzzer beater eliminated. Okay, see from

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Speaker 1: the playoffs, and as a treat, we have to hear

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Speaker 1: what it sounds like in Korean. Let it's a global game.

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Speaker 1: It is. And now if you didn't see it, that

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Speaker 1: was Lillard as he put in the basket buzzer beater.

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Speaker 1: Everybody on the team pours out on the court. Everybody's

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Speaker 1: slapping high fives for Damian Lillard, and you know that

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Speaker 1: he had to feel Let's use the word exhilarated. It

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Speaker 1: was a great feeling, you know when they left, when

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Speaker 1: they left my hands, it felt good. I felt good

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Speaker 1: about it. And Um, the last five six, five or

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Speaker 1: six minutes of the game, I just kept telling myself like, um,

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Speaker 1: for us to get this game, we was gonna have

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Speaker 1: to really really dig, you know, to come out on top.

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Speaker 1: So um, the fact that I kept telling myself that

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Speaker 1: and then we came out on the top of the

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Speaker 1: shot went in, I was like, man, it really it

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Speaker 1: really happened. You know, we really dug and pulled it out.

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Speaker 1: So UM, it was a great feeling. We can talk business,

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Speaker 1: we can talk everything about the business of sports, but

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Speaker 1: that's just before we get to the business. I'm not

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Speaker 1: a basketball guy. As you guys know, that's a terrible shot, right.

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Speaker 1: Paul George sat up tie game, he said, it's a

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Speaker 1: bad shot tie game with with the series on the

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Speaker 1: line and the way going. I see Steph Curry like,

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Speaker 1: that's sort of like, you know what that shot is,

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Speaker 1: what the fifteen foot used to be. If I had

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Speaker 1: the coach after the game, I'm like, that's what I

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Speaker 1: never never do that again. Well, let's explain now, is

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Speaker 1: that the game was tied, it was one all, and

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Speaker 1: then uh Lillard hit that three pointer and and yeah,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't a very good shot when I mean in

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Speaker 1: terms of he shouldn't have taken it, but he did.

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Speaker 1: And but why we're talking about this. We we focus

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Speaker 1: all the time on the business of sport, and every

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Speaker 1: now and then it's good to have a reminder that

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Speaker 1: behind the business, why do they sell suites, why do

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Speaker 1: they sell all the alcohol, why do they have the parking,

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Speaker 1: It's because people come to see moments like this, and

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Speaker 1: the commissioners will tell you they always need to go

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Speaker 1: back to the game. David Stern used to say back

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Speaker 1: to the game all the time, and Adam Silver is

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Speaker 1: the same way, and Gary Bettman is the same way,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about that too. But there are moments

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Speaker 1: that keep people coming back. Why what do you think

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Speaker 1: Twitter looked like last night when when Dame hit that

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Speaker 1: shot and it was a series long battle of Russell

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Speaker 1: Westbrook mouthing off to to Dame Lillard and and to

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Speaker 1: hit that shot. It was the culmination of a lot

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Speaker 1: of trash talk, and he saved goodbye to okay see.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's the first thing that like a little

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Speaker 1: soap opera, right, he hits the shot from by the

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Speaker 1: way thirty seven ft. He hits the shot and then

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Speaker 1: he waves goodbye to the bench that okay see, it's

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Speaker 1: like a soap opera. So it's moments like that that

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Speaker 1: keep people coming back. It's the core of the business.

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Speaker 1: Without the game, without the moments, you've got nothing. Does

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Speaker 1: the NBA have enough of those moments? At least in

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Speaker 1: the early rounds of the playoffs? Shut I mean that

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Speaker 1: that shot last night is insane and it sounds amazing

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Speaker 1: in every language, I'm sure, um. But overall viewership down

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Speaker 1: in the early parts of the playoffs, partially because Lebron

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Speaker 1: James is not in the playoffs, I'm sure, and Lebron

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Speaker 1: moved west by the way the regular season, he simply

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Speaker 1: by the fact that he's on the West. You heard

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Speaker 1: Charles Barkley yesterday. I believe you're as watching You're a

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Speaker 1: loser if you're watching the Nets blow and get blown

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Speaker 1: out by the by the seventies sixers. Um, none of

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Speaker 1: these series I would have whom in less Denver san

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Speaker 1: Antonio turns around is going to go seven games. One

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Speaker 1: can argue that the early part of the NBA playoffs

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Speaker 1: is far less compelling than the early part of the NHL.

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Speaker 1: Player I don't even think that's I don't think that's

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Speaker 1: an arguments a statement of fact. The four series in

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Speaker 1: the East, Milwaukee swept, Boston swept Philly, one in five,

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Speaker 1: Toronto one in five. Those are your top four seeds

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Speaker 1: in the East. They all went on. Yeah, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: that Milwaukee Piston series great? Speaking of Milwaukee West season's

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Speaker 1: part owner of the Bucks be our guests later in

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Speaker 1: the week. But the comparison you made to NHL is

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Speaker 1: good because one of the questions I'm I'm wondering either

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Speaker 1: the NHL is in this period right now, top two

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Speaker 1: seeds in the East, the top seed in the East,

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Speaker 1: topsy in the West both eliminated. Else the best teams

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Speaker 1: in the regular season hockey are not going to be

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Speaker 1: advancing in the in the in the playoffs versus the NBA,

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Speaker 1: where it looks like the top four seeds in both

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Speaker 1: the East and the West are are going to advance.

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Speaker 1: Which of those is better, you know for in terms

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Speaker 1: of drumming up in trip nationwide for the playoffs, is it,

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Speaker 1: you know, having the better teams playing in the in

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Speaker 1: the in the rounds of the playoffs or is it

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Speaker 1: having you know, the the upstar teams or maybe some

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Speaker 1: up you know you'd want the mix you don't. You

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Speaker 1: don't want the sweeps, as every TV person has always

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Speaker 1: told you, it doesn't matter who, it matters number of games,

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Speaker 1: and it's bad for teams too. Yeah, we we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to us about this, I'm sure later in the week.

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Speaker 1: But you know, as if you're an owner, you want,

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Speaker 1: you want home playoff games, right, you're sweeping? Um, well,

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Speaker 1: they'll take the advancing more than the let's get the

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Speaker 1: extra game check that they want to advance. I think

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Speaker 1: the owners are let's not mess around with the game six.

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Speaker 1: Let's be done with an advance because that's how you

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Speaker 1: feel your future sales. I mean the Bucks. I believe

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Speaker 1: on top of a great year of sales in the

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Speaker 1: new building, the five serve form. I believe there for

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Speaker 1: next year another season. Tickets have already been added. Well,

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Speaker 1: I heard about analytics. You talk about that about you've heard? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it s what did you hear about that? And and

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Speaker 1: what I heard is out of the four major groups

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Speaker 1: of sports, the NBA, the top seeds usually advance. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna not like in the NHL, not like

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Speaker 1: it is in the NFL, and not like it is

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Speaker 1: in MLB where sometimes the best team doesn't advance to

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Speaker 1: the next round. Where in the NBA. It's a little

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Speaker 1: trivia with Bar because he's not a big hockey fan.

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Speaker 1: He thinks, you know, who have the Gordy how jersey

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Speaker 1: every now and then that Ferris Bielder's buddy. But what

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Speaker 1: was Ferris Bielers buddies? Name? What camera cam? Where? I

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Speaker 1: love that Gordy hu Camon Fry. There we go. That's

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Speaker 1: why she and many many other reasons. Um, but there

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Speaker 1: is a real home ice advantage in hockey, like when

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Speaker 1: you're playing football, you play on the field there's no

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Speaker 1: home field advantage than the crowd. You hear the crowd,

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Speaker 1: nothing changes. There's no advantage to being the home team

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Speaker 1: in basketball other than you're sleeping in your own bed.

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Speaker 1: But the rules of hockey are designed to literally favor

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Speaker 1: the home team. You should be a better team at home.

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Speaker 1: Do you know any of those rules, Mr Bark. All

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Speaker 1: I know is if you're the home team betting, you

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Speaker 1: usually get at least a half a point just given

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Speaker 1: to you for Yeah, but there should be there's a

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Speaker 1: reason for it. And hockey. The two biggest reasons in hockey. One,

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Speaker 1: the home team gets the second change. You get the

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Speaker 1: final change of lines, so if you're trying to match

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Speaker 1: up players, you can do that as the home team.

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Speaker 1: You'll see the whistle blows. You'll see the referee put

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Speaker 1: his hand up to the visiting team say that's it.

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Speaker 1: You can no longer change players. Then the home team

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Speaker 1: gets to match up the way they want to. Face

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Speaker 1: offs very important part of the game control possession of

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Speaker 1: the puck. The visiting team player must put his stick

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Speaker 1: down on the ice first. It's an advantage to come

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Speaker 1: in second and be able to lift that stick. I

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Speaker 1: did not know that I didn't think you would, so

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Speaker 1: that's why others may not know that as well. But

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Speaker 1: that's a literal home advantage for the team's end. By

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Speaker 1: the way, the distance from the bed to the side

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Speaker 1: you're on twice for changing. But I mean that's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a different one. But find find it

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Speaker 1: interesting hearing you say there's a distinct home ice advantage

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Speaker 1: in hockey. I think it's going to give nightmares to

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Speaker 1: our listeners up in Winnipeg, including out there, who's whose

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Speaker 1: Jets could not win a home game and lost in

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Speaker 1: six games to the St. Louis. But we all right,

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Speaker 1: so we talked Dame Leonard. Now, Dame Lillard. Now let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the Shark. I stayed up. You need to

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Speaker 1: be up, and you probably were just getting up for work. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was just getting up and I turned on the

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Speaker 1: set and I'm like, man, they're an O T three

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Speaker 1: nothing Vegas games over. You know the Vegas scores three nothing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Fleury was amazing. There was no way they

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Speaker 1: were going to beat him once, let alone three times.

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Speaker 1: Got a major penalty called against Vegas, which means the

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Speaker 1: other team can score as many goals as they can

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Speaker 1: on the five minute power play and you don't come

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Speaker 1: out of the box. It was like boom boom, boom boom.

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Speaker 1: Four goals from San Jose, then Vegas tie is it

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Speaker 1: with less than a minute ago? Then you go to

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Speaker 1: overtime and San Jose. I mean again, these are the

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Speaker 1: moments why people come back again and again. It's why

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Speaker 1: people will pay for O T T packages, It's why

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Speaker 1: they will buy their foam finger and the pucks and

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Speaker 1: the hat. This is the core of the game, the

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Speaker 1: game itself that fuels the entire industry. No, this is

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Speaker 1: why it goes back to what you said, sports needs

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Speaker 1: to be sports and and I think when it got

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Speaker 1: into where we realized that our innocence was gone and

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Speaker 1: there is actually a business to it is when things changed.

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Speaker 1: But you need moments like this where people come Monday

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Speaker 1: morning or whatever morning it is and go to the

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Speaker 1: water cooler and it's like, oh my goodness, did you

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Speaker 1: see what Twitter is the water cooler now, and that's

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Speaker 1: fueling the business of Twitter is the real time water cooler.

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Speaker 1: I don't have to wait to come here. I actually

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Speaker 1: was like, my lord, does anybody watching this game? And

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Speaker 1: then of course people were responding so I was by

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Speaker 1: myself at one in the morning on the couch, yet

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Speaker 1: I was watching the game with a community. Game seven,

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Speaker 1: like with the Bruins and the Maple Leafs, that was

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Speaker 1: another one you had to watch it. Of course, the

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Speaker 1: history for the Maple Leafs didn't work out too well.

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Speaker 1: They haven't won a Cup in twenty six years. Clark,

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Speaker 1: going back to my my question about you know, parody

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Speaker 1: and whether it's it's healthy from a from a business standpoint,

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Speaker 1: for for the league, for the playoffs, for the for

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Speaker 1: the media rights holders, I think you can make an

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Speaker 1: argument that, depending if the Capitals lose Game seven Wednesday

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Speaker 1: night to Carolina, I think you can make an argument

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Speaker 1: that all eight playoff series went the wrong way for

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Speaker 1: TV viewership. Yes, you you want the Maple Leafs in

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Speaker 1: even though it's Pittsburgh with their stars and Crosby. You

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Speaker 1: lost the top team, the best, one of the best

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Speaker 1: regular season teams in the past. Um but him in

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Speaker 1: the West Calgary on Vegas, which is a big TV

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Speaker 1: drawn also a fun story gone. I'm not sure what's

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Speaker 1: better between Winnipeg St. Louis or Dallas Nashville, but Nashville

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Speaker 1: the team pretty well. What happens if Washington loses and

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Speaker 1: now you lose Alex vecan van, what what happens? Now?

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Speaker 1: Maybe you'll go with Ovi the grade eight? What happens? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think if you're a diehard hockey fan, and I

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Speaker 1: consider myself one of them, I love the way this

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Speaker 1: works out. But but obviously they're so it's so important

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Speaker 1: to draw in casual fans, and I'm not sure that

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Speaker 1: this has been just hit it on the hit. The

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Speaker 1: diehard hockey fans are gonna watch Columbus, you know, I

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Speaker 1: know Tortorella, I know Barbovski. You know, yeah, there we go.

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Speaker 1: We know these folks, we want to see them play. However,

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Speaker 1: how do you lure the casual fan? That's what the

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Speaker 1: NHLs challenge has been. How do you add to the rabid,

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Speaker 1: loyal fan base you have, how do you get those

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Speaker 1: casual viewers? Vegas managed to do it last year with

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Speaker 1: that Cinderella run. All right, they're gone. Now, what I

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Speaker 1: mean I don't know is it is is Brent burns

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Speaker 1: his beard enough to make people watch I don't know,

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Speaker 1: fun team, but he's a he's a scary looking dude.

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Speaker 1: I don't I wouldn't want to get hit by him

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Speaker 1: in the quarter. But I could see I could see

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Speaker 1: them being a compelling the character anyway, along with Thornton,

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Speaker 1: I could see it's like zz Top, like casual sports figure.

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Speaker 1: Who those guys. Can't you see him doing the old

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Speaker 1: Electric shave commercials. Yeah, I think of in some ways.

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Speaker 1: I think of the NBA and the NHL when it

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Speaker 1: comes to playoff time is almost like direct inverses. Like

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Speaker 1: the NBA is a star driven league and the best

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Speaker 1: teams always win, and you know who's going to be there,

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Speaker 1: and oftentimes the games are not compelling, but it gets

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Speaker 1: a tremendous viewership, right And the NHL, you know, oftentimes

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Speaker 1: the Stars losing the first round or there aren't many stars,

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Speaker 1: and there's a tremendous amount of parody, and almost every

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Speaker 1: series seems to go six or seven games, but the

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Speaker 1: viewership just isn't there. And there's obviously a relationship between

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Speaker 1: those two things. Let's talk about Major League Soccer and expansion.

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Speaker 1: It seems like a very perpetual expansion mode. But we're

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Speaker 1: going to We're going to thirty now, Yeah, which is

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Speaker 1: which is it's big. It's a lot of teams, um

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Speaker 1: just for for folks who feel like, you know, the

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Speaker 1: MLS is always expanding, you're right. Uh, they added Cincinnati

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Speaker 1: this year. That that got them to twenty four. There

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Speaker 1: are teams in Miami, Austin, and Nashville that are going

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Speaker 1: to be added in the next couple of years. That

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Speaker 1: gets you to seven. Um, they've are twenty eight and

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Speaker 1: twenty nine seem most likely to be Sacramento in St.

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Speaker 1: Louis um. And then the thirtie one kind of seems

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Speaker 1: up in the air. There's a number of cities that

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Speaker 1: are that are possible there. Um. But you know, you're

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Speaker 1: talking about a league that you know, opened twenty something

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Speaker 1: years ago with with ten teams um and as dramatically,

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Speaker 1: you know, over the course of the late two thousand

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Speaker 1: tens and then into the twenties will dramatically increase in

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Speaker 1: size and price and price. I mean that's the big thing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The the expansion fee for these extra teams reported a

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Speaker 1: two hundred million dollars UM. For reference, when when Toronto

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Speaker 1: FC joined the league in two thousand seven, I believe

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Speaker 1: there was ten million dollars. When l a f C

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Speaker 1: joined two years ago, they paid a hundred and ten right,

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Speaker 1: so so we've doubled even from the l a f

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Speaker 1: C expansion fee, and that was to three years ago,

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Speaker 1: let's say, just because we can't. But two million is

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Speaker 1: still cheap compared to the other ones NFL and I mean,

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Speaker 1: go on, well, you're getting an asset that's nowhere near

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Speaker 1: as valuable. Um. But it does. It does certainly. I

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Speaker 1: mean kind of beg the question where a where does

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Speaker 1: it stop? And be what does the endgame look like

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Speaker 1: for MLS? Right? You can't you can't add a team

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Speaker 1: in every single city in America, right, so at some

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Speaker 1: point they need to stop. There's obviously a tremendous there's

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Speaker 1: a there's a group of people who believe that MLS

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Speaker 1: should structure itself in the same way that European soccer

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Speaker 1: leagues do, where there's multiple tiers of leagues, there's relegation,

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Speaker 1: there's promotion. There are lawsuits trying to achieve that MLS

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Speaker 1: is technically in violation of FIFA's code right now in

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Speaker 1: terms of not having promotion and relegation. Um. But it

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Speaker 1: does make you wonder, you know, if you're looking trying

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Speaker 1: to read Don Garber's mind, kind of what the what

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Speaker 1: the end game is here in terms of expansion. This

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Speaker 1: is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast on Michael Barr

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Speaker 1: along with Scott Sashnik and Evan Noby Williams. We are

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Speaker 1: here each and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday exploring the

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Speaker 1: world of money and sports. Join us again at the

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Speaker 1: end of the week when we speak with Milwaukee Bucks

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Speaker 1: owner Wes Eden's fresh off a four game sweep of

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Speaker 1: Michael Barr's Detroit Pistons. That was great. Why did he

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Speaker 1: have to do that? Michael screaming into the Michaels Sorry,

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Speaker 1: very excited. You say the word Detroit, Michael goes crazy.

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Speaker 1: No matter what it is. You know what. I have

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Speaker 1: a windscreen, That's why. And you've got wind. Got wind? Okay, um,

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Speaker 1: I wish I had a wind screen. Anyway. You're listening

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Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio around the

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Speaker 1: world and online where you get your podcast.