Speaker 1: Hey guys, and welcome to this week's episode of Let's
Speaker 1: Be Real Podcast. As always, my name is Sammy J.
Speaker 1: And this week's episode is with mental health advocate, activists,
Speaker 1: and former D one athlete Victoria Garrett. When Victoria was
Speaker 1: in college, she actually gave a TED talk called The
Speaker 1: Hidden Opponent, which really talks about the mental health challenges
Speaker 1: athletes face, and she turned it into a nonprofit called
Speaker 1: The Hidden Opponent, talking about this in raising awareness. That
Speaker 1: organization is now featured in Kobe Bryant and Eva Clark's
Speaker 1: book Geese Are Never Swans. So we talked about the book.
Speaker 1: We talk about her nonprofit, what it's like being a
Speaker 1: student athlete, and how you can make an impact. I
Speaker 1: hope you enjoy Victoria, Bye, how are you? I am good.
Speaker 1: I am so excited to you have you on my
Speaker 1: podcast for so many reasons, not only because we have
Speaker 1: a lot to talk about, but also both of our
Speaker 1: podcasts have the word real on a real pod Let's
Speaker 1: Be Real. I think it's fitting. I know I noticed that,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, I love this realness, being authentic,
Speaker 1: no filters, that is all my favorite stuff. So glad
Speaker 1: to meet one of the same exactly. It's so important,
Speaker 1: especially with what's going on now in the world. Um. So,
Speaker 1: like I said, we have a lot to talk about. First,
Speaker 1: I read the book Either Never Swans, and oh, my goodness,
Speaker 1: why hasn't there been a book out like this before. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's such an amazing book. Um. That just really depicts
Speaker 1: mental health issues so beautifully, and especially in athletes, which
Speaker 1: is a storyline we don't often get. And I literally
Speaker 1: read the entire novel in one night. That's depressive and
Speaker 1: that's not even a joke. I had to read it
Speaker 1: early because of the promo, so obviously I was like,
Speaker 1: I gotta read this thing quick, but that I could
Speaker 1: not put it down. It was so good. And that
Speaker 1: also made me so happy because I am so passionate
Speaker 1: about the story and people reading it. So I just
Speaker 1: feel really once again real in the fact that I'm
Speaker 1: promoting the book because I love it and I want
Speaker 1: everyone to get their hands on it. So for those
Speaker 1: who don't know, Uh, Kobe Bryant and Ava Clark created
Speaker 1: the idea for this book, and they and Ava Clark
Speaker 1: wrote it. Um, And I think this story is just
Speaker 1: like I said, it's so not talked about and congratulations.
Speaker 1: Your nonprofit is listed as a resource and I want
Speaker 1: to talk more about that in a second, but first
Speaker 1: I just want to talk about for those who haven't
Speaker 1: read the book, can you give the synopsis? Yes. So
Speaker 1: the synopsis of the book is as follows. It centers
Speaker 1: around a young character, Gus. He is a swimmer, and
Speaker 1: Gus is when we first opened the book, is dealing
Speaker 1: with the grief of losing his older brother to suicide.
Speaker 1: And his older brother was also a competitive swimmer, and
Speaker 1: the older brother got very very very close to making
Speaker 1: the Olympic Games and did not qualify at the Olympic trials,
Speaker 1: and that devastation everything he dedicated his whole childhood to
Speaker 1: qualify for the Olympic Games and then not make it
Speaker 1: um was unbearable for that older brother, and he ends
Speaker 1: up taking his own life. And so now Gus, the
Speaker 1: younger brother, is navigating the loss of Danny, his broken
Speaker 1: family life, and going to experience those same pressures, thoughts,
Speaker 1: and stresses that his older brother experienced. Because Gus is
Speaker 1: also a swimmer who also wants to go to the Olympics,
Speaker 1: so we kind of see the same storyline manifest itself
Speaker 1: and Gus but the difference is how can he navigate
Speaker 1: these challenges better than his brother? When I read the book,
Speaker 1: one of the main things that I took away from
Speaker 1: it is that being a student, let alone a student athlete,
Speaker 1: you try and plan everything accordingly, but you know, life
Speaker 1: throws you curveballs, and it's not what the curveballs are,
Speaker 1: but it's how you react them is what shapes you
Speaker 1: as a person. So I'm curious, as a former do
Speaker 1: one volleyball player at USC what kind of curveballs were
Speaker 1: thrown your way? Well, it's interesting because I felt like, Um,
Speaker 1: some of the curveballs I faced as a college athlete were.
Speaker 1: One of the biggest ones was just my myself, the
Speaker 1: own my own self talk, the things I said to
Speaker 1: myself every day. In that kind of environment, my confidence
Speaker 1: was shaken for sure. Um that question of am I
Speaker 1: good enough to be here? Did I prepare enough? Do
Speaker 1: I know enough? What do they think of me? Um?
Speaker 1: The level is just so high that for me I
Speaker 1: developed that sort of imposter syndrome. And I definitely feel
Speaker 1: like towards While I definitely struggled with my mental health
Speaker 1: throughout college, my senior year I felt like I had
Speaker 1: kind of mastered my own mind and how to handle
Speaker 1: it in those situations. But then I graduated and I've
Speaker 1: been pursuing my own career, and I found that I
Speaker 1: still struggle with those thoughts of my own self worth
Speaker 1: or with anxiety. But now the narrative is slightly different,
Speaker 1: and so I'm having to re understand the new curveballs, um,
Speaker 1: and apply what I used to practice to this new dialogue,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. So I think every curveball we're
Speaker 1: thrown in life, whether what comes next is similar or not,
Speaker 1: we're developing and creating mechanisms to handle that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: And so it only makes you start for sure. I
Speaker 1: mean also, like you're going to say, like we're a
Speaker 1: lot of the times our worst enemy, you know. It's
Speaker 1: how I think. Also social media plays are roll into that,
Speaker 1: which we can talk about later. Um. But another aspect
Speaker 1: of this book that I love is the relationship that
Speaker 1: gus Uh creates with his coach. It's that, you know,
Speaker 1: camaraderie that I think is so special, and it's not
Speaker 1: really talked about how that can help to have someone
Speaker 1: like that who understands the pressurey that you're under. Did
Speaker 1: you ever have that type of experience. I feel like
Speaker 1: it's very special to have a coach who has that
Speaker 1: sort of impact on you, in that relationship with you.
Speaker 1: And I definitely experienced that sort of coaching in high
Speaker 1: school from my club coach. However, UM, you know it
Speaker 1: is it is something that when you continue in a
Speaker 1: sport and you experience different coaches, and I had two
Speaker 1: different college coaches. And on top of that, UM, if
Speaker 1: you're great, if you're fortunate enough, depending on your division,
Speaker 1: you might have three to four extra coaches on a staff.
Speaker 1: So fortunately, I think with good people, there's always an
Speaker 1: opportunity to form a connection. UM. But for me, I
Speaker 1: would say, looking back on my sports career, you know,
Speaker 1: being honest, being real, I don't have that one coach,
Speaker 1: UM that I feel like changed my life. UM. I
Speaker 1: did feel like I found that in teammates and role models,
Speaker 1: but it is something that as an athlete, you know,
Speaker 1: you hope you do come across. Do you think if
Speaker 1: you had that that would have helped the pressures that
Speaker 1: you kind of put unto yourself with under the such
Speaker 1: high stakes. I definitely do. I think that when you
Speaker 1: feel like your coach fully believes in you and wants
Speaker 1: to see you shine and cares about you as a person.
Speaker 1: Some of that you are going to mitigate some of
Speaker 1: that stress and pressure because you're not worrying about what
Speaker 1: your coach thinks about you, and there's not anymore. There's
Speaker 1: not much uncertainty because their relationship is clear, and so
Speaker 1: I definitely think that that would have been a help. However,
Speaker 1: I learned one of my biggest lessons and not having that,
Speaker 1: which is not letting people outside myself give me validation.
Speaker 1: The more I seek, uh the approval of a teammate
Speaker 1: or the approval of a coach or the non important
Speaker 1: then then the less secure I can be in just
Speaker 1: my own thoughts and knowing who I am. So while
Speaker 1: I yes, that would have been nice to have, I
Speaker 1: don't regret the incredible lesson it taught me of being
Speaker 1: the person who creates my own storyline. So when you
Speaker 1: found out that you were going to be a player
Speaker 1: at USC, which is their volleyball team, in credible What
Speaker 1: was your experience like in the work and for those
Speaker 1: who don't understand how much goes into being a student athlete,
Speaker 1: can you describe what your days were like? Yes, So,
Speaker 1: I was so excited this was everything I had wanted,
Speaker 1: especially playing volleyball my entire childhood, and so to get
Speaker 1: this opportunity was huge. And getting there, I think you
Speaker 1: like to imagine, you know, what it would be like
Speaker 1: to be a student athlete, especially at USC. You think, oh,
Speaker 1: I know, I can work really hard, I promise, like
Speaker 1: all I want to do is play volleyball. You know,
Speaker 1: you think these things, and then you get there and
Speaker 1: they lay out your schedule and you realize that Monday
Speaker 1: through Friday, from one o'clock to six o'clock, you can't
Speaker 1: do anything but show up to the gym and just
Speaker 1: do what they say. So from one to six Monday
Speaker 1: through Friday, I would have practice, film a lift. Most
Speaker 1: of the time in that block, you're you're working out
Speaker 1: for about three four hours. Depending on the day, you
Speaker 1: could have a three hour practice, US an hour and
Speaker 1: a half lift. Um, the numbers could vary. My body
Speaker 1: is just tired just hearing this, litterally doing it. And
Speaker 1: then yes, and then you fit in your class before
Speaker 1: one or after six. Not to mention the other things
Speaker 1: that we do as college students, having a family life,
Speaker 1: of social life, wanting to just get lunch with a friend, um,
Speaker 1: and then you have games twice a week, and that
Speaker 1: includes traveling out of the state depending on your club
Speaker 1: friends and keeping up with the academic schedule. About everyone
Speaker 1: else at the school is as well. When did you
Speaker 1: have time to eat? That is the thing you have
Speaker 1: to carve in, is like you have to make sure
Speaker 1: you're eating and you have to like plug it into
Speaker 1: your calendar. And that goes along with just even time
Speaker 1: to do nothing. I feel like if I am waking
Speaker 1: up and doing things and I'm super robotic, um, I
Speaker 1: just feel like I'm not relaxed or I haven't had
Speaker 1: a moment to distress. So it's also carving in like
Speaker 1: thirty minutes to do nothing, which you barely can't even
Speaker 1: get And honestly, at the time, my thirty minutes of
Speaker 1: doing nothing was just sitting stressing about the things I
Speaker 1: should be doing or um, you know, feeling overwhelmed and
Speaker 1: kind of letting up because you know, and you just
Speaker 1: do so many things that you don't focus on what's
Speaker 1: really happening. And then you slow down, You're like, so
Speaker 1: it becomes weird to like take a breath, Yes, you
Speaker 1: realize what you've been kind of running from with this
Speaker 1: busy schedule, so it was a lot. Um it is
Speaker 1: a lot for current student athletes, and um, you know
Speaker 1: that just comes with the territory. So I'm curious because
Speaker 1: I'm always thinking about like different solutions to things. If
Speaker 1: you could rewrite the curriculum for a student athlete, what
Speaker 1: do you think you could do that would make it
Speaker 1: more manageable. It's tough because they do try to make
Speaker 1: sure all the schools are doing the same things and
Speaker 1: have the same opportunities to practice and et cetera, and
Speaker 1: they're very strict rules about that stuff. However, for UM,
Speaker 1: I feel like the most obvious thing to me that
Speaker 1: can be adjusted is just providing equal and accessible mental
Speaker 1: health support for all student athletes. Uh, That to me
Speaker 1: would have helped me manage everything much sooner. Is to
Speaker 1: have that person to talk to. And fortunately at USC
Speaker 1: I did have that. It took me a while to
Speaker 1: go seek that help, but there are many many schools
Speaker 1: and players who don't have an opportunity to seek that
Speaker 1: help for their mental health. So it's incredibly important. And
Speaker 1: that's another reason why the book Use Are Never Swands
Speaker 1: so important is because it details this side of the
Speaker 1: game that is equal to all the physical things we
Speaker 1: do to compete. We had to take a quick break,
Speaker 1: but when we come back, I want to talk about
Speaker 1: mental health and athletes and something social media. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back, and we're back my Season one finale. Kevin
Speaker 1: Love with our guest and saw that that is my
Speaker 1: dream interview congrat agulation. That was crazy. He's incredible and
Speaker 1: we One of the things that we talked about that
Speaker 1: I want to bring up with you is that there's
Speaker 1: such a stigma for athletes going to therapy. It's fascinating
Speaker 1: to me that it's okay to go to a sports psychologist,
Speaker 1: it's okay to work out and get in great shape physically,
Speaker 1: but yeah, there's such a stigma to go to therapy.
Speaker 1: I always say that you're supposed to work out your body,
Speaker 1: but you're also supposed to work out your mind, Like
Speaker 1: that's what therapy is. I agree with that wholeheartedly. The
Speaker 1: stigma from society is definitely a huge factor in the
Speaker 1: reason why we don't prioritize mental health as much. It's
Speaker 1: just this idea that because you can't see the injury
Speaker 1: because it was invisible, because someone just has to say
Speaker 1: it's there, makes it less believable, and we obviously know
Speaker 1: as a society we don't like to believe things unless
Speaker 1: we can see them. So, um, you know, I found
Speaker 1: that the stigma of oh, you should just be able
Speaker 1: to figure this out or cheer up, or you've got
Speaker 1: this or brush it off, so not that simple, not
Speaker 1: so simple exactly, especially these terms that we have coined
Speaker 1: in sports culture, like brush it off, shake it up, um,
Speaker 1: figure it out, just be clutched. All those things make
Speaker 1: you think it is something you can just fix yourself.
Speaker 1: But when we look deeper and we die below the
Speaker 1: surface and we talked to those professionals and people who
Speaker 1: really know what's happening inside our minds, they can tell
Speaker 1: you it's not just a quick fix. It's the same
Speaker 1: sort of injury as an a C L tear. You
Speaker 1: need to go to rehab, you need to get surgery,
Speaker 1: you need to um take time off. And if your brain,
Speaker 1: if you're depressed, Um, the neurochemicals in your brain are
Speaker 1: not the way they once were. You're not producing enough
Speaker 1: serotonin from people. Forget, there's a science behind it. It's
Speaker 1: not just like there's a chemical imbalance in your brain.
Speaker 1: A lot at the time that's not just in your
Speaker 1: head exactly. And I think we beat ourselves up for
Speaker 1: not being able to think ourselves out of it. And
Speaker 1: I struggle with that for a long time. I just said,
Speaker 1: you've got to think yourself out of this. You know,
Speaker 1: this just means you can't handle. No one else is
Speaker 1: this way. And I discredited how severe the issue actually
Speaker 1: was until it was really bad. Yeah, well, I heard
Speaker 1: you say that you never really experienced anxiety before this. No,
Speaker 1: my high school experience, I'm fortunate to say, was pleasant. Um,
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people don't have that. I
Speaker 1: wish I could say the same. Oh no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: It wasn't rough. The first two years were the hardest
Speaker 1: for me. Last year was a lot better, and this
Speaker 1: year I'm a senior. So we're trending in the right direction.
Speaker 1: But it's all about putting your mental health first, right, right.
Speaker 1: And I also think we're at different times, um, with
Speaker 1: social media, and even though we are close in age,
Speaker 1: you are going through high school at a time where
Speaker 1: we have a TikTok or we have Instagram the way
Speaker 1: it is. I did not get Snapchat till my sophomore
Speaker 1: year of high school. So even though I have been
Speaker 1: very tech savvy, and I'm a younger generation. It was
Speaker 1: not as prevalent as it was, so who knows how
Speaker 1: many mental health would have been if I was dealing
Speaker 1: with the same social media scrutiny and involvement that you
Speaker 1: have to deal with. UM. But so for those reasons,
Speaker 1: and also for having a pretty blessed, privileged family, UM,
Speaker 1: I did not experience too many mental health issues. But
Speaker 1: then when I got to college, I just felt like
Speaker 1: that schedule we mentioned, the pressure we talked about all
Speaker 1: just came out of nowhere and I was not able
Speaker 1: to handle it. You mentioned this in your TED talk,
Speaker 1: and I was so curious about this. You said that
Speaker 1: if you're one minute late, you had to wake up
Speaker 1: at six am and run. Why did they do that?
Speaker 1: That is as clear as it sounds. If you are
Speaker 1: one minute late, we are all running at six am
Speaker 1: the next morning. That was a team role. Sixty seconds yep,
Speaker 1: that was a team role. And it was just you
Speaker 1: can't be late. There's absolutely no excuses. UM, we show
Speaker 1: up on time or we show up early. And that
Speaker 1: was one of the main things that developed to my
Speaker 1: my anxiety a real quick and it wasn't understandably. It
Speaker 1: wasn't just if you were lately ran at six am.
Speaker 1: It was if you break any single rule on our
Speaker 1: team rules, we will do six am running. So wearing
Speaker 1: the wrong color shirt, forgetting your socks, like just common
Speaker 1: human errors, punishing you for being human. But it's tough
Speaker 1: because you know, I still look back and I'm torn between.
Speaker 1: I personally think at this time in my life, I
Speaker 1: could handle that penalty, I could handle those rules, and
Speaker 1: as an eighteen year old who was dealing with so
Speaker 1: many changes and adjustments in college as a freshman, I
Speaker 1: just wasn't equipped to handle that stress and pressure. Because
Speaker 1: I look back and I'm like, Okay, we were number
Speaker 1: one in the country. We were undefeated. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a reason why we were that good. And I'm guessing
Speaker 1: rules and the team dynamic and that strictness played a
Speaker 1: part in our performance. However, you know, I just wasn't
Speaker 1: wise enough. I hadn't done enough work, I wasn't experienced
Speaker 1: enough to know how to handle that pressure. And like,
Speaker 1: if I had that rule now and I made the
Speaker 1: team run, I feel like by accident, I feel like
Speaker 1: I would just be like, you know what, sorry, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm human. I forgot my mis shure, like I'll see
Speaker 1: you guys six am. Whatever. That's life where a team
Speaker 1: we do things like this, whereas freshman year was everyone's
Speaker 1: gonna hate me. I'm a freshman, I'm a walk on.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make the steamyors run like it was just this.
Speaker 1: There was so much more tied to it than just
Speaker 1: a punch with the hierarchy of that too, like seniors.
Speaker 1: And you couldn't be late to six am running. If
Speaker 1: you are late to six am running, we had to
Speaker 1: show up the next day. And that happened once someone
Speaker 1: missed six am running because they overslept, and so we
Speaker 1: had to come back the next day at six am.
Speaker 1: Did you have time for a social scene with your schedule?
Speaker 1: I did my best to try to keep up some
Speaker 1: sort of social life. One of my my best friend
Speaker 1: from high school, also went to USC and she was
Speaker 1: not an athlete, so she was able to, you know,
Speaker 1: bring me along to things and introduced me to her friends.
Speaker 1: And I was grateful to have that because I didn't
Speaker 1: have the time to go meet people at all. So
Speaker 1: for her to just say, join us for dinner and
Speaker 1: let me introduce you to all the friends I've made
Speaker 1: was a really nice thing to have. However, something I
Speaker 1: really struggled with was not having a social life or
Speaker 1: friend group outside my team. And my senior year UM
Speaker 1: in the spring was the first semester I was just
Speaker 1: a student because volleyball is in the fall, and now
Speaker 1: that I didn't have a season, I was training for
Speaker 1: you get senior spring, just to be a student. And
Speaker 1: that time in my life, I really was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: I've been here for four years and my only friends
Speaker 1: or social relationships were teammates, And it just was really
Speaker 1: difficult for me to sit with that as a college senior,
Speaker 1: thinking great, now I have all this time, I don't
Speaker 1: have practice. I can do everything social I would ever
Speaker 1: want to do, but I don't really have people to
Speaker 1: do that with. And I really struggled with that. That
Speaker 1: makes total sense, and I also think the social media
Speaker 1: role that plays into that, where you see people having
Speaker 1: fun and partying, then also you're torn between wanting to
Speaker 1: go out, but then also you're in a really bad
Speaker 1: mental state where you don't want to socialize with anybody.
Speaker 1: It's that it's that you're between a rock and hard place. Well,
Speaker 1: something I've discovered about myself in quarantine, which I'm so excited,
Speaker 1: like this one thing will be the best thing that
Speaker 1: I've realized about myself is so I mentioned I struggled
Speaker 1: with kind of that lack of a ton of friends,
Speaker 1: and I think, especially as females, there's this pressure to
Speaker 1: have a girl group as a girl's night out, and
Speaker 1: so you don't have that group of five or six
Speaker 1: or that group chat, you think like something's wrong with me.
Speaker 1: And before Quarantine, I just remember, like actively, how can
Speaker 1: I build relationships? How can I invite someone here? Like
Speaker 1: I need more friends? Because there were social things happening, pictures, events,
Speaker 1: and I felt like I needed that. But now that
Speaker 1: I've been in quarantine and there is no party to
Speaker 1: go to, there are no pictures of the groups, there
Speaker 1: are no things. I've looked at my life. I've been
Speaker 1: realized I don't have an absence. I don't feel an
Speaker 1: absence of friends. I have some of my my best
Speaker 1: friends in the world, but let's be real that it's
Speaker 1: like four or five people and they're not quality over quanity,
Speaker 1: though that's what I always say, yes, quality over quantity.
Speaker 1: But so I've realized, like these people give me everything
Speaker 1: I needed friends, and I don't even have time for
Speaker 1: the people that are my friends. They're always like, you're
Speaker 1: so busy, can you make time for me? Because of
Speaker 1: everything I'm doing. So I just realized, Wow, it was
Speaker 1: an illusion that society was convincing me I needed more friends.
Speaker 1: You need to go to these things with people in
Speaker 1: the pictures, And now that there's no opportunity, I've realized
Speaker 1: I don't need that at all. You know, you've talked
Speaker 1: about how you would post these photos, but like they
Speaker 1: would be so manicured, even though they would just look
Speaker 1: quote unquote candid. Yeah. I spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: trying to perfect my Instagram, especially in college, and make
Speaker 1: sure it looked like I was everything I thought I
Speaker 1: was supposed to be, a happy, skinny, pretty popular, um
Speaker 1: like just enjoying this lifestyle and being this girl that
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, you needed to be, and it
Speaker 1: was just so fake and it was such a disconnect
Speaker 1: with my heart because I remember just feeling like absolute um,
Speaker 1: just feeling really bad about myself for feeling really down
Speaker 1: and finding a picture to seek those likes and those
Speaker 1: comments and and look at this little feed and think, Okay,
Speaker 1: well this looks perfect so you know, maybe my life's
Speaker 1: not as bad as I think it is. UM, And
Speaker 1: that also wore on me over time, just putting up
Speaker 1: a front and putting on a mask that wasn't genuine
Speaker 1: to me. And I think if you live yes, and
Speaker 1: if you live your life as someone else or something else,
Speaker 1: you slowly start to lose touch with who you are.
Speaker 1: And I just I had to stop that. Okay, we
Speaker 1: have to take one more quick break, but want to
Speaker 1: come back. I want to talk more. Thanks social media
Speaker 1: and society's beauty standards. We'll be right back, and we're back.
Speaker 1: I love so much how just authentic you are on
Speaker 1: social media, and I love your TikTok because it is
Speaker 1: just like with everything going on the world, and especially
Speaker 1: on that app, it is just like, thank you real
Speaker 1: it's authentic, which is needed more. I'm really grateful to
Speaker 1: hear that. And you've got to get on the app. Girl.
Speaker 1: It is where it is at right now. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just it's we can talk. We can talk about
Speaker 1: it after. But TikTok is just a game changer. And
Speaker 1: the people I've been able to connect with, um, the
Speaker 1: way I've been able to explore my creativity, you know,
Speaker 1: I've found that in the message I want to share.
Speaker 1: It's given me so many ways to communicate it. And
Speaker 1: you are right, there's a very toxic diet culture on TikTok,
Speaker 1: a very a very clear standard of beauty presented on
Speaker 1: that app but you're breaking that. I think it is
Speaker 1: important and um just I've been having a really great
Speaker 1: time on it, and it means a lot to know that,
Speaker 1: you know, you're enjoying the TikTok, So thank you. Something
Speaker 1: that I've also just realized, there's just this gap in
Speaker 1: what societal beauty standards, which is something that I want
Speaker 1: to talk to you about because you know, there's so
Speaker 1: many trends with it. You know, sometimes it's the like
Speaker 1: skinny stick figures what's cool or beautiful, but then it's
Speaker 1: the curse. But then it's like a normal body. Why
Speaker 1: do you think that's something that's still so prevalent in
Speaker 1: society when people are like, just don't look like that.
Speaker 1: A lot of people, Well, we've just continued to give
Speaker 1: attention to our appearance. First off, that's something that as
Speaker 1: society we value. Um and I'm not saying that that's
Speaker 1: what I value, but as a whole you just grow up,
Speaker 1: especially as a female, being told to look a certain way,
Speaker 1: present your look presentable. Um. And then there's all these
Speaker 1: like adjectives people to attribute with that which is dainty, poised, feminine. UM.
Speaker 1: I know, feminine was a big issue for me because
Speaker 1: as an athlete, I didn't feel feminine. I felt sweaty
Speaker 1: and bulky and strong, and even strong isn't something we
Speaker 1: would associate with a beautiful female. So you have those narratives.
Speaker 1: And then also we see the people who have the
Speaker 1: power and the followings promoting image and you know, without
Speaker 1: naming people, but I'll name people Kardashians. You know, we
Speaker 1: see them most of the time very image focused, and
Speaker 1: that in turn sends a message to the people who
Speaker 1: follow them and consume their content, which is millions and
Speaker 1: millions and millions, that that is important and also this
Speaker 1: is what you should look like. And we need to
Speaker 1: just start shifting the attention and the message, especially for
Speaker 1: those younger generations, about what the priority is. And you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think that the Kardashians wake up in the
Speaker 1: morning and set out to make girls feel bad about themselves.
Speaker 1: I They're also normal people like us who probably fallen
Speaker 1: victim to the same standards and pressures, but they're under
Speaker 1: a spotlight and so whether they like it or not,
Speaker 1: they are setting the standard UM and we follow that.
Speaker 1: And so it's important to pay attention to where we're
Speaker 1: putting that focus, what we're trying to become UM and
Speaker 1: then create our own notions around that. I know you've
Speaker 1: talked about how you know from all these societal standards,
Speaker 1: it made you want to change your body so you
Speaker 1: either wouldn't eat or you know, and that's something that
Speaker 1: so many people are facing. It's become kind of have
Speaker 1: you seen those like TikTok's where it's like they make
Speaker 1: light of it or they make it like normal something
Speaker 1: they're so harmful because you know best, like when you're
Speaker 1: an athlete, especially a student athlete, you have to bulk
Speaker 1: up to play the sport. That's just what happens. You
Speaker 1: gain muscle, um, you gain strength. How do you think
Speaker 1: we can as a society change that to make that
Speaker 1: still beautiful because it is It comes with each person
Speaker 1: kind of claiming that power back and that authority to
Speaker 1: be the person who validates themselves, be the person who
Speaker 1: says this is okay and I don't need you to
Speaker 1: approve it, and especially for female athletes, you know, we
Speaker 1: need to remember that. And I made it to talk
Speaker 1: about this yesterday, and it was just saying, you're not
Speaker 1: there to look the prettiest. You're there to play the
Speaker 1: best and ball out and do what you've been training
Speaker 1: to do, not look the cutest in your uniform. But
Speaker 1: we've once again in this society had people put such
Speaker 1: a focus on our image that even athletes, female athletes me,
Speaker 1: I wasn't focusing on how strong, fast, um good at
Speaker 1: my sport. I was instead I was thinking about how
Speaker 1: I looked too big, how I didn't look good enough, um,
Speaker 1: how the muscles I had spent months building and developing
Speaker 1: on my body were ugly um, and just ignoring the
Speaker 1: fact that that was a mark of hard work. To
Speaker 1: get muscle on your legs is hard to do. Yet
Speaker 1: in that process I despised that growth. Wow, Unfortunately, it's
Speaker 1: so hard to be a girl today, Like, it's so hard, um.
Speaker 1: And I honestly love what you've done with your nonprofit.
Speaker 1: I love that it's listed as a resource in this book.
Speaker 1: So for those who aren't aware of your nonprofit, please
Speaker 1: please share it. After struggling with my mental health freshman
Speaker 1: and sophomore year, I delivered a TED talk in the
Speaker 1: spring of my uh college time I've never time talked
Speaker 1: abou summer year, and it was called The Hidden Opponent,
Speaker 1: and it basically explained the stigma that athletes face when
Speaker 1: it comes to mental health and the mental health issues
Speaker 1: in sports that often go UM, not talked about or
Speaker 1: not addressed. And after graduating, I continued to speak, and
Speaker 1: I traveled at a different college campus is and I spoke.
Speaker 1: But I realized that there's so much more than just
Speaker 1: me and my one story. There's hundreds thousands of athletes
Speaker 1: who experience these SAM struggles. So I wanted to create
Speaker 1: a community, a platform where we could amplify the stories
Speaker 1: of those student athletes and also create a community together
Speaker 1: UM to kind of combat that stigma. And so it's
Speaker 1: called The Hitting Opponent after my TED talk, but also
Speaker 1: because I think, you know, I just love that that
Speaker 1: idea that we're facing a competitor. We have another opponent,
Speaker 1: but this one you can't see. And it's really been
Speaker 1: special to develop this group. IY have an amazing UM
Speaker 1: team of people who who helped Ben Ruvo as a
Speaker 1: baseball player in college he's our president, and all of
Speaker 1: the team is made up of current and former student athletes,
Speaker 1: and we have a Facebook group with hundreds of athletes.
Speaker 1: So it's really it's really special, and I'm so grateful
Speaker 1: that Kobe supported it and that we can be a
Speaker 1: resource in this book and anyone who reads it and
Speaker 1: is struggling can come our way. Just starting a nonprofit
Speaker 1: for this is so important because, like you've talked about,
Speaker 1: it's not talked about. Yeah, it's not at all. So
Speaker 1: I know you've been asked would you write a book?
Speaker 1: You know, I've seen your answers. You even asked a lot.
Speaker 1: But I'm going to change your research. I did, so
Speaker 1: what I'm going to change up the question would you
Speaker 1: ever make a documentary? I mean, I would love to
Speaker 1: participate in that or do that, and I am willing
Speaker 1: to share my story in any capacity and hopes that
Speaker 1: it helps. But speaking of that, there's an incredible documentary
Speaker 1: coming out any day now called The Weight of Gold
Speaker 1: with Michael Phelps and all these incredible athletes who talk
Speaker 1: about the mental health issues of Olympic athletes. Um so
Speaker 1: that sounds that is something very similar to what you
Speaker 1: just asked coming out too, and then also just big
Speaker 1: not to Kevin Love who you've interviewed, but just for
Speaker 1: him to kind of champion this conversation just creates waves,
Speaker 1: um for him to complete it's incredible. It's also this
Speaker 1: it's this stigma that all of this is a stigma,
Speaker 1: and I just don't understand it because if everybody goes
Speaker 1: through it, then why is it not talked about? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: I agree for sure, and I think the stigma has
Speaker 1: already changed dramatically, which is incredible, just from my freshman
Speaker 1: year of school where it was at too now my
Speaker 1: first year out of school, looking at where the conversation is, um,
Speaker 1: I really feel like it is super prevalent in sports
Speaker 1: right now. And that's that's awesome that in just four
Speaker 1: years we've seen such great lengths. I agree, And I
Speaker 1: also think that you have persevered not only through the
Speaker 1: transition but also to get on the team. So for
Speaker 1: someone who has been rejected, what advice would you give
Speaker 1: them to Kno, give up? I believe that when it
Speaker 1: comes to what should I give up or not? And
Speaker 1: I almost want to refer to that room as more
Speaker 1: like move on, because you know there aren't people that
Speaker 1: do have to stop for certain reasons. And you never
Speaker 1: want someone to look back and think they couldn't do
Speaker 1: it or they wouldn't strong enough, because it's a difficult
Speaker 1: decision to stop something. I would just my advice would
Speaker 1: be to really look inside yourself, forget the external noise,
Speaker 1: what your parents say, what social media said, what you
Speaker 1: said in the past, two people, whatever it is you're
Speaker 1: dealing with, and think, you know, is my heart in this?
Speaker 1: Do I really want to do? I have more to give?
Speaker 1: And sometimes that answer is going to be no, and
Speaker 1: that's perfectly okay. And other times you might think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got a little fight left in me and you
Speaker 1: want to keep going. And for me, I had a
Speaker 1: little fight left in me, and I'm glad that I
Speaker 1: kept going. Man Like, I think I feel like if
Speaker 1: more people were as honest as you have been, just
Speaker 1: in general, I think the world would be a much
Speaker 1: better place. That is so sweet of you, and you
Speaker 1: are super honest too, so I'm glad that you get
Speaker 1: to host these conversations with all these incredible people and
Speaker 1: bring that realness out of them. Well, thank you very much,
Speaker 1: And if you haven't already, please go purchase Ease or
Speaker 1: never Swans and don't forget to check out Victoria Garrick
Speaker 1: on her social media. It's just Victoria Garrick on all
Speaker 1: of them, right, yes, yes, yes, yes. And also go
Speaker 1: check out the Hidden Opponent. Yes, come to the Hidden
Speaker 1: Opponent Instagram or if you're a student athlete, join our
Speaker 1: Facebook group. We definitely want you there. Thank you guys
Speaker 1: so much for listening to this week's episode of the
Speaker 1: Let's Be Real Podcast. If you have not already, don't
Speaker 1: forget to subscribe and leave a comment if you have
Speaker 1: any suggestions or just your thoughts on the podcast. Also,
Speaker 1: if you haven't already, don't forget to follow me on
Speaker 1: Instagram at It's Sammy J. That's I T S S
Speaker 1: A M M Y j A y E. And as always,
Speaker 1: I will see you guys next week. Buy