1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us on this special 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: edition of Bloomberg Daybreak. US markets are closed for the 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: Juneteenth Holiday. I'm Nathan Hager. Coming up this hour. We'll 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: update you on the latest anti trust battles facing big tech. 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: We'll speak with Bloomberg Intelligence senior litigation analyst Jennifer Reed. 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: And if you're looking for a travel deal this summer, 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: we'll look at some under the radar trip ideas with 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: Nikki Eckstein and Chris Rouser of Bloomberg Pursuits. But first, 9 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: one of the big goals of the Trump administration during 10 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: the first six months of its second term has been 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: to change diversity, equity and inclusion programs not just in government, 12 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: but in business and at universities across the country. For 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: an update, we bring in Simone Foxman, who covers race, equity, 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: gender and class for Bloomberg News. And Simone really appreciates 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: you coming on with us on this holiday edition because 16 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: it really seemed like a good time to do this. 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: Not only are we a few years out, you know, 18 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: from the race reckoning that really seemed to kickstart DEI 19 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: and arguably this official Juneteenth Holiday. Now it seems like 20 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: we're in a much different moment in corporate America, don't 21 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: you agree? 22 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, we've really seen a whip saw in 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 2: public opinion and internal corporate opinion in exactly the way 24 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 2: that they kind of address issues of race, gender, identity, 25 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 2: and beyond. And you know, a lot of that has 26 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: been spearheaded by the Trump administration, but not all. And 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: we can talk about, well, you know, what companies were 28 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: doing already. 29 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do that, because it would be important to 30 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: you know, just get an idea of what companies were 31 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: doing even before these executive orders aimed at dialing DEI 32 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: back were taking place. What was the trajectory for DEI. 33 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's rewind even a little bit further than that. 34 00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: I mean, diversity, equity and inclusion policies are essentially only 35 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 2: the product of, you know, diversity policies that were spearheaded 36 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighties. So you've seen a lot of 37 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: the programs, whether for small businesses, whether internally at companies, 38 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: be around for a really long time. Part of this 39 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: was actually set off by a kind of conservative think 40 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: tank that had talked about how so much of the 41 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: new population of younger workers would be diverse, you know, 42 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: not white men, frankly, and it really you know, convinced 43 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 2: executives that you know, you needed to kind of plan 44 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: for workforces that were more diverse. So DEI policies or 45 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 2: what ultimately you know, fell under that Moniker have been 46 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: around a long time. Obviously, they were really ramped up 47 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 2: after the murder of George Floyd in twenty twenty, and 48 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: the language that corporate executives used around that time was 49 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 2: frankly quite charged. You had, you know, uber we're talking 50 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 2: about trying to be an anti racist company. You had 51 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 2: you know, employees, employers really promising large transformative steps to 52 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: change the makeup of their workforce, including things that looked 53 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 2: like trying to increase the number of say black managers 54 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: or women of a certain executives of a certain level 55 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: by you know, fifty percent in the next three years. 56 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: Really putting kind of specific numbers on things in a 57 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: way that they hadn't done before. What really kind of 58 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: marked I mean, there was obviously kind of you know 59 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 2: pushback to some of this almost immediately. We saw Trump 60 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 2: in his late in his first term try and pass 61 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: an executive order against or try and institute in executive 62 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: order against you know, unconscious bias trainings that ultimately went nowhere. 63 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: But what really kind of fomented this reversal, especially within companies, 64 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: was the student dents for Fair Admissions decision around Harvard 65 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 2: and affirmative action, and it forced a lot of companies, 66 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: even though they weren't the subject of that, to look 67 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: again at their internal policies and make sure that they 68 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: weren't going to be in the way of what Trump's 69 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 2: executive orders were doing. So that kind of brings us 70 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 2: up to where we were maybe last year, and then 71 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 2: we can talk about kind of what's changed this year. 72 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about that. I mean, are these 73 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: benchmarks still in effect now that we have executive orders 74 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: that are you know, targeting DEI in the federal government, certainly, 75 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: but you know, by a virtue of that on Corporate 76 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: America as well, particularly a lot of these companies that 77 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: do business with the federal government. 78 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, Corporate America was already looking at some of its 79 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: policies and trying to make sure that the legal rationale 80 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 2: that you know, led to the students for Fair Admission 81 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: decision that overturned affirmative action wouldn't be applied to them 82 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: in ways that we're damaging. So we saw a lot 83 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 2: of you know, employee resource groups for exams, sample make 84 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: sure that they were open to everyone. Scholarships you know, 85 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: kind of welcome everyone, you know, even though they were intended, 86 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: for example, to raise black students into you know, engineering 87 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 2: or something like that. Now they had to be open 88 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: at least to all races. What you've seen since January 89 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: twentieth is frankly another reassessment, because what Trump's executive orders 90 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 2: have said is not just that they want to eliminate 91 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 2: ate what they call illegal DEI within the federal government, 92 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 2: but they're also really encouraging federal contractors to eliminate and 93 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 2: private companies beyond federal contractors to eliminate to DEI. Now, 94 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 2: the problem for companies is they don't do a great 95 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: job of defining exactly what that means and what is 96 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 2: different this time around. We've had some inklings here and there. 97 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 2: Largely this falls along the things that the companies already 98 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 2: thought kind of fell into these gray areas, those targets 99 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier. Some lawyers see them as too close 100 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: to quotas, which are already illegal. You're not supposed to 101 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 2: be able to hire anyone on the basis of protected 102 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 2: characteristics like race or gender. So you've seen companies kind 103 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: of even that we're the more aspirational goals with less 104 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: firm targets, they've kind of rolled some of them back, 105 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 2: just kind of avoid things. But frankly, the corporate world 106 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: has been very scared not only that the federal the 107 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: government is going to come after them, but also that 108 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 2: they might end up on some lists somewhere of companies 109 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: that are woke that follow this illegal DEI and therefore 110 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: that that's going to prompt you know, consternation among their 111 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: consumers and ultimately affect their business. 112 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: We're speaking with Bloomberg News reporter Simone Foxman, who covers 113 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: a quality for Bloomberg News. You mentioned illegal DEI as 114 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: a phrase in these executive orders. Is there a chest 115 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: in the corporate world about what illegal DEI actually means? 116 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: Has that been defined clearly? 117 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 2: No, And that's really the issue for them, you know, 118 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 2: certain things Again, as I mentioned, you're not supposed to 119 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: be able to hire people with a view towards their 120 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: race or gender identity and beyond, uh, the you know, 121 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: critics of DEI will say that that is essentially what 122 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: was happening over the last couple of years, whether explicit 123 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: or not. But many companies say, you know, a lot 124 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: of these programs that we had that fell under this 125 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: dei moniker whatever they fall under. Now you know, we're 126 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 2: not you know, saying we should hire someone because of 127 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: their race, but that we should do a better job 128 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: of expanding the pot recruiting, drawing from, you know, communities 129 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: that we haven't necessarily seen a lot of representation from, 130 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: and assessing our internal policies to make sure that we 131 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: are inclusive of everybody. So a lot of you know, 132 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: whether it's sort of trainings about inclusivity, whether it's things 133 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 2: like scholarship programs, whether it's turning up at large recruiting 134 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: events that especially draw out people from underrepresented communities. There's 135 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 2: a lot of those things that still frankly exist within 136 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: companies that companies have decided, well, this is important enough 137 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: to us that we it's important for us to maintain 138 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: these programs. We don't think they violate the law. We 139 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: think that, you know, whatever the administration is saying, you know, 140 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 2: this is not illegal, and it's important to us, and 141 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: therefore we're going to continue to do them. And I 142 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: frankly found in my reporting that this is true even 143 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 2: at companies that said publicly that they were dialing back 144 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: on DEI to some extent, you know, whether that's Walmart 145 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: or any number of companies really across the board that 146 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: kind of made these enormous announcements that were treated with 147 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 2: great fan for are frankly still talking about things. For example, Walmart, 148 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 2: until my story came out in mid May, had you know, diversity, 149 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: equity and inclusion and the importance of it on its 150 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 2: job postings. So not all of this has frankly gone away. 151 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: Well, Walmart certainly is one of the highest profile companies 152 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: in the world, and if you know companies like that 153 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: are keeping some of these programs on the books, how 154 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: are they sort of striking that balance When you said 155 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: earlier that a lot of these companies don't want to 156 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: be on the administration's radar. They want to keep a 157 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: lot of this stuff on the down low. 158 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 2: So they've gone in tweaked programs anything that was in 159 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 2: a illegal gray area, you know, put that potentially looked 160 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 2: a little bit too much like quotas. They've they've kind 161 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: of pulled pulled back anything that didn't and welcome everyone. 162 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: They've pulled back anything that had that's not you know, 163 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 2: very political. They kind of pulled back. But you know, 164 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: the Walmart example is telling. Even though they made a 165 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 2: change in the way in their supplier diversity program now 166 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: called supplier Inclusion program. So the branding is part of 167 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 2: this here, they still have the landing pages on the 168 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 2: company website about lgbt QIA plus founded brands, about Hispanic 169 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 2: black women owned brands, you know, really a nod to 170 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 2: the fact that consumers, some consumers are interested in seeing 171 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 2: who's behind the brands. You know, Lows, despite making an 172 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 2: announcement and talking about how it was rolling back elements 173 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 2: of its program, really sought to reassure investors that these 174 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 2: changes were not sweeping. So you've seen really little tweaks 175 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 2: around the edges and little little or Mendelssohn is a 176 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 2: law firm that kind of asks corporate executives about their opinions. 177 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 2: In a survey they conducted in late February to mid March, 178 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 2: they asked corporate executives, I think it was over three 179 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 2: hundred to what extent is your organization considering new or 180 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 2: further rollbacks of your inclusion equity and diversity programs. Forty 181 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: five percent said not at all, thirty two percent said 182 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 2: to a small extent, So seventy seven percent here not 183 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: making any major changes despite some of the new guidance 184 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 2: from the Trump administration. 185 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 1: Do you think we would have seen changes around the 186 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: margins for these programs even without President Trump's executive orders, because, 187 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: as we mentioned, there had been some backlash from DEI 188 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: even before President Trump returned for a second term. 189 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 2: Yes, partly because the court seemed like it was moving 190 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 2: in this direction, and partly because there has been a 191 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: backlash to being overly politicized about many issues. You know, 192 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: companies were willing to make somewhat political statements frankly a 193 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: couple of years ago. They're not willing to do that 194 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 2: in the same way anymore. They've tried to move away 195 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: from that. There was already a push towards we're going 196 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 2: to really emphasize inclusion. We're going to minimize things that 197 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 2: you know, the first two letters of the acronym diversity 198 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: and equity. You know, diversity. Sure, we still believe in 199 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 2: that equity. Maybe people are confused. There was already that 200 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 2: push that has not necessarily changed, and maybe that's why 201 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: We're not seeing these massive moves on the part of 202 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 2: company is to really, you know, further tweak from here. 203 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: Really appreciate this. Simone, thanks again for coming on with 204 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: us on this juneteenth edition of Bloomberg Daybreak. That is 205 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News reporter Simone Foxman covering equality for Bloomberg News. 206 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: And up next on this special edition of Daybreak, we'll 207 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: take a look at big tech still in the crosshairs 208 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: of anti trust lawsuits. We'll get an update on that 209 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: from Bloomberg Intelligence Senior litigation analyst Jennifer Ree. It's twenty 210 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: minutes past the hour. I'm Nathan Hager, and this is Bloomberg. 211 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: Welcome back to this special edition of Bloomberg Daybreak. I'm 212 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: Nathan Hager. US markets are closed for the Juneteenth holiday. Now, 213 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 1: the thinking among many on Wall Street is that antitrust 214 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: cases against big tech might ease up with the change 215 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: from the Biden to the Trump administration. Have they for 216 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: some answers? Let's turn to Bloomberg Intelligence senior litigation analyst 217 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: Jennifer Ree. Jen kind of looks like your litigation plate's 218 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: still pretty full. Is that the case? Is that a surprise? 219 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 3: It is very full? And I'll tell you, I don't 220 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 3: think it's a surprise, oh you know. And the reason 221 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 3: I don't think it's a surprise is because people forget 222 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 3: that all of these investigations of the big tech platforms 223 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 3: that culminated in lawsuits, and in fact, two of the 224 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 3: lawsuits started during Trump's first administration, and they were pursued 225 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 3: aggressively by the Biden administration, which picked up the mantle 226 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 3: from Trump and kept going with them. And you know, 227 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 3: these cases now several of them have proceeded to trial, 228 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 3: but they were started under Trump. And there's just this feeling, 229 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 3: I think by Trump and most of the people that 230 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 3: he's put in place at the FTC and DJ that 231 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 3: these companies like Meta and Google and Apple are left 232 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 3: leaning companies that have you know, censored conservative content and 233 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 3: made it difficult for Trump to win the second time 234 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 3: he ran against Joe Biden. And really they're just not 235 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: going to give them any breaks, despite the fact that 236 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: executives from these companies have freely tried to curry favor 237 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 3: with the president. 238 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: So it's a different focus in the sense that it 239 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: might be more around the content that these companies are 240 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: putting out there as opposed to more of the anti 241 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: competitive nature that we saw during the Biden administration. 242 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 3: Well, yes and no, it's about the content. But I 243 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 3: think what they're doing is putting content into the antitrust 244 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 3: framework by saying that the lack of competition and the 245 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 3: fact that the company's monopolized markets allow them then to 246 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 3: control the message, that if there were more alternatives and 247 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 3: more competition, they wouldn't have that ability to control the message. 248 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 3: So they sort of put it all together right into 249 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: one bucket. 250 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: So does that mean that as some of these cases 251 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: go forward against some of the biggest names in the 252 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: mag seven, that we could see breakups of these companies. 253 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 3: So I think it's unlikely. Now you have two cases 254 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 3: where the dj is really aggressively seeking breakup. They're both 255 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 3: against Google, by the way. One is about its monopoly 256 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 3: maintenance of Search, and the other one is about monopoly 257 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 3: maintenance of its ad tech products. And in those cases, 258 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 3: what they're asking the judges to do is to force 259 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 3: Google in the search case to divest Chrome and in 260 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 3: the ad tech case, to divest a product they bought 261 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 3: a long time ago called double Click. These are products 262 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 3: we don't really know about as consumers. They're used by 263 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 3: digital publishers and advertisers to get together and sell and 264 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 3: buy advertising space online. And Google has all these products 265 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 3: and of shuffles the publishers and advertisers through all their 266 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 3: products to the exclusion of others so that they can 267 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 3: take the fees all along the way. I'll tell you 268 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 3: that in both cases, by the way, liability has already 269 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 3: been found against Google, they have acted illegally to maintain 270 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 3: monopolies in all of these markets. That has already been determined. 271 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 3: What the judge is now they're two different judges are 272 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 3: trying to do is determine what the remedies should be 273 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 3: to fix this problem. It's not really punishment in the 274 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 3: anti trust world, but more let's open up the markets 275 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 3: to other competitors and stop this illegal conduct. I don't 276 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 3: think in either case the company is going to be 277 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 3: forced to sell off a company sell off a piece 278 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 3: of itself. So starting with Google Search, that's the one 279 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 3: where the DJ is asking them to be forced to 280 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 3: sell Chrome. In my mind, if you look at the 281 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 3: liability decision, that punishment i'll call it punishment, even though 282 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 3: it's not really punishment, doesn't really fit the crime, right. 283 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 3: I think it's overkill, because what they've been found to 284 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 3: do that's illegal is enter these agreements with companies like Apple, Verizon, 285 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 3: T Mobilemsung that makes their Android phones to place Google 286 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 3: Search as the default search engine at Internet access points, 287 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 3: or to place it, let's say, on a phone to 288 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 3: front and center to the exclusion of other search engines, 289 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 3: and that harmed other engines like Bing and like Duck 290 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 3: Duck Go because they simply weren't able to get exposure. 291 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 3: They weren't able to get the search volume they needed 292 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 3: to improve. And I think you can fix that without 293 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 3: having to sell Chrome. You know, there are other ways 294 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 3: that can be fixed. So my guess is these remedies, 295 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 3: which are going to come out in August, by the way, 296 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 3: are going to be a mixture of telling them, hey, 297 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 3: you can't have these agreements anymore. You can't pay Apple 298 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 3: to put Google Search behind Safari, which, by the way, Nathan, 299 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 3: they were paying twenty billion a year for that. Yeah, yeah, 300 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 3: a lot of money. So it's going to hurt Apple too, 301 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 3: and maybe sharing some of the search data you've collected 302 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 3: over the years with all of these searches, and also 303 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 3: possibly choice screens and Chrome. A person buys a new 304 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 3: phone they open Chrome the first time, they have a 305 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 3: choice of what they want to use as their default 306 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 3: search engine, and possibly some data sharing, because the data 307 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 3: sharing would fix this deprivation of scale and data that 308 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 3: allegedly these other search engines needed to get better, share 309 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 3: some of that data, give them a chance to try 310 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 3: to get better and to compete more vigorously against Google Search. 311 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: So even some of those smaller remedies could be a 312 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 1: pretty big hit to Google's not just bottom line but 313 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: their overall business practices, couldn't. 314 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 3: They absolutely, absolutely, they have fought hard against some of 315 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 3: these data remedies, and even the default remedies now they 316 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 3: modeled internally. This came out and trial that if they 317 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 3: lost the default search position it could be up to 318 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 3: thirty two billion in revenue lost a year, which, I'll 319 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 3: be honest really surprised me because I thought that was 320 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 3: awfully high, given that most people really like Google Search, 321 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,239 Speaker 3: and you might be inclined to put it back as 322 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 3: the default if it isn't the default to start. But 323 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 3: nonetheless this could really hurt, and the data sharing could 324 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 3: hurt too. But the whole point is to reduce their 325 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 3: market share a little bit and give more market share 326 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 3: or allow some of these other competitors to try to 327 00:18:59,160 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 3: gain market share. 328 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: Well. On top of the Google multiple antitrust cases, we've had, 329 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: this case against meta platforms wrap up in just the 330 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: last couple of weeks as well. This is a big 331 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: one where they're talking potentially about spinning off Instagram and WhatsApp. 332 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: Could it go that far? 333 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 3: You know, I really don't think so. You know, as 334 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 3: I said, Google lost on liability on those two trials, 335 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 3: I don't even think med is going to lose on 336 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 3: liability on this one. 337 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: Wow. 338 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 3: You know, And I'll tell you it's really because it's very, 339 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 3: very hard to prove that there was consumer harm. You know, 340 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 3: they may have had a bad intent when they bought 341 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 3: Instagram and WhatsApp. The intent may have been, let's buy 342 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 3: these companies rather than competing with them, which is technically illegal. 343 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 3: But they put a lot of money in. Both of 344 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 3: the companies were sort of struggling at the time that 345 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 3: they were acquired by Facebook. They put a lot of 346 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 3: innovation in. They built the products into something that was 347 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 3: really desirable to consumers, which may not have happened if 348 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 3: they hadn't done that. And it's hard to prove that 349 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 3: had they not bought these we call it a butt 350 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 3: four world, that they would be the products they are 351 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 3: today and that consumers would be better off. And really 352 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 3: that's what had to be proven here by the FTC, 353 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 3: and I'm not so sure that they were able to 354 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 3: do that. So I think at the end of the day, 355 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 3: they're just going to lose on liability and then this 356 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 3: will be done because if they lose, FTC loses on liability, 357 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 3: there will be no remedy. 358 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: Hearing interesting, So is this a case where the FTC 359 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: might have gotten itself boxed in with meta platforms just 360 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: from approving the acquisitions of Instagram and WhatsApp all those 361 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: years ago. 362 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think it was regret buyers for remorse there. 363 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 3: You know, they approved both of those acquisitions. WhatsApp. I 364 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 3: think they didn't even investigate the Instagram one. They did 365 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 3: investigate for six months or so, they allowed both of them, 366 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 3: They cleared both of them, as did by the way, 367 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 3: the UK and EU, which looked thoroughly also at these acquisitions. 368 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 3: And I do think that they regret having done that 369 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 3: and they're trying to fix that now. 370 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: Well, so could meta platforms be sort of watching its back? 371 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: Though? 372 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: When it comes to future acquisitions, given that it has 373 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: had to go through this process over the last couple 374 00:20:59,119 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: of months. 375 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 3: You know, absolutely, And that's one of the issues that 376 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 3: they raise with respect to a suit like this. They say, look, 377 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 3: you approved these deals years ago in twenty twelve and fourteen. 378 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 3: How is a company supposed to buy any company and 379 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 3: have assurance going forward that ten years later or five 380 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 3: years later, the FDC or DOJ won't come back and say, hey, 381 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 3: those we're illegal acquisitions even though we clear them back 382 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 3: when you know you gave us notice. And I think 383 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 3: it does put companies in a difficult position. And I 384 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 3: suspect that Facebook is probably sitting back still watching what's 385 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 3: going to happen in merger enforcement with the Trump administration 386 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 3: to understand whether they could get a big deal through 387 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 3: or not. 388 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: Now, outside the Federal Trade Commissions purview, the Justice Department 389 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: is joining with states in going after Apple. What set 390 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: issue there? 391 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 3: This is an unusual case because this is about Apple 392 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 3: sort of blocking or refusing interoperability or refusing certain apps 393 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 3: to be on the mobile iOS that would allow people 394 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 3: to get out of the iOS system, in other words, 395 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 3: to keep them dependent on the iPhone or their other hardware, 396 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 3: such as the Apple Watch. So the idea is that 397 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 3: it reduces the competition or the ability for somebody to 398 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 3: switch and to buy an Android, because let's say you 399 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 3: get the Apple Watch, now you're dependent on the iOS 400 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 3: because it works with the iOS and doesn't really work 401 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 3: that well with Android, or the texting doesn't really work 402 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 3: very well, or for instance, they don't allow game streaming 403 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 3: apps to be sold through their app store because it 404 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 3: could allow less sophisticated technology. Somebody who streams a game 405 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 3: can buy less sophisticated technology than an Apple iPhone to 406 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 3: play that game. And so it's about all of this 407 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 3: action to try to keep people within iOS, buying all 408 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,719 Speaker 3: of their hardware, and keeping them in their system. And 409 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 3: this one's really slow. There's no trial date set yet. 410 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 3: We're waiting on a motion to dismiss that Apple filed. 411 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 3: I don't think they'll win that, Nathan, But that's not 412 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 3: a big deal. They're very hard to win. It's just 413 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,719 Speaker 3: sort of a first chance to dismiss the complaint and 414 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 3: rather than getting into discovery. So I think this is 415 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 3: going to be a really slow case. And you know, 416 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 3: my feeling about it is that I don't think it's 417 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 3: necessarily a slam dunk in anyway for the DOJ. We're 418 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 3: going to have to wait to see how the evidence 419 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 3: shakes out here. But I think Apple has a lot 420 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 3: of good defenses about safety and security and protecting its users, 421 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 3: providing its users with the best products, seamless activity, you know, 422 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 3: with whatever they're doing on the phone, and these can 423 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 3: be good defenses in an anti trust suit. 424 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: And we know that we're in a pretty long wait 425 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: and see mode as well when it comes to the 426 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: FTC's case against Amazon. Remind us what's going on there, 427 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: what's an issue that. 428 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 3: Has been so slow? And they just push back the 429 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 3: trial date yet again into twenty twenty seven from twenty 430 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 3: twenty six. So this is about Amazon requiring sellers on 431 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 3: its platform to provide the lowest prices they provide anywhere 432 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 3: on Amazon. Now that sounds good, that should be good 433 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 3: for cons But the allegation there is that it's more 434 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 3: expensive for these sellers to sell an Amazon than their 435 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 3: own platform or maybe atsy or some other platform or 436 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 3: they could sell their products, and it causes those prices 437 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 3: to go up rather than all of the prices to 438 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 3: come down. So it has this price inflating effect, kind 439 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 3: of like a most favored nation clause. They think that 440 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 3: this is illegal. They also say that if sellers want 441 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 3: to have really nice positioning when somebody's searching for a product, 442 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 3: or they want to be in what they call the 443 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 3: prime box, that they have to use Amazon's fulfillment services 444 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 3: as well. That also causes a price increase because they're expensive. 445 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 3: You know, this is another one where I think we 446 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 3: have to see where the evidence shakes out. On the 447 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 3: fulfillment side. I think Amazon can make again a decent 448 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 3: pro competitive argument that you know, we want to make 449 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 3: sure when we promise our buyers that they're going to 450 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 3: get a product within two days or one day or today, 451 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 3: that they actually do. So we want control over the 452 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 3: fulfillment services because we want to make sure that we're 453 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 3: good to our word. You know, they might have a 454 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 3: good defense there on the most favored nation issue. I 455 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 3: think it looks like so far that this could actually 456 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 3: cause some price raising effects outside of the platform, but 457 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 3: I kind of see it as well not really a 458 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 3: big deal because the answer to that if they're found 459 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 3: libel is you just have to stop doing this, And 460 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 3: what that could mean is that you might be able 461 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 3: to find a product lower priced outside of Amazon, and 462 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 3: I think that would be fine. And I'm not even sure, Nathan, 463 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 3: that that would really hurt Amazon's revenue or bottom line 464 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 3: in any kind of substantial way. 465 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: No, we just went through four of the mag seven 466 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: when it comes to anti trust scrutiny, it sounds as 467 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: though big tech is still a big priority for this government. 468 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: Thank you for this, Jen really appreciate it. That is 469 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Senior litigation analyst Jennifer Ree and 'p. Next, 470 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 1: we'll look at some under the radar travel bargains this 471 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: summer with Nikki Eckstein and Chris Rouser of Bloomberg Pursuits. 472 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: It's thirty seven minutes past the hour. I'm Nathan Hager, 473 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: and this is Bloomberg. Thank you so much for joining 474 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: us on this special edition of Bloomberg Daybreak. US markets 475 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,479 Speaker 1: are closed for the Juneteenth holiday. I'm Nathan Hager, and 476 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: we're just about a day away from the official start 477 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: of summer, so we thought now might be a decent 478 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: time to look at how travels looking, with many of 479 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: us maybe thinking about getting ready for those summer vacations. 480 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: And who better to check in with on that than 481 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: our friends at Bloomberg Pursuits, Nikki Eckstein and Chris Rouser 482 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: here to guide us through summer travel. Thanks so much 483 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,479 Speaker 1: to both of you for being with us, and I 484 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: think we're coming off a pretty strong start to unofficial 485 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: travel season right with the Memorial Day weekend behind us. 486 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: Is that a good indicator of whether things could be 487 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: crowded as we embark? Who'd like to tackle that question? 488 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: You know? 489 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 4: Demand is that an all time high? I think going 490 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,959 Speaker 4: into twenty twenty five, people have been very bullish on travel. 491 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 4: People want to get away, People are movedtionally exhausted, mentally 492 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 4: exhausted from the news cycle. This is a time where 493 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,360 Speaker 4: people are still kind of lingering over that pandemic induced 494 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 4: desire to get out and explore the world and not 495 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 4: let a single PTO DA go wasted. So all that 496 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 4: energy is still riding super high and we're seeing super 497 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 4: sized demand. What we are seeing a little bit is 498 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 4: people being more value conscious, people looking at the global 499 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 4: economic uncertainty and saying, maybe I should splurge just a 500 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 4: smidge less, find a couple of ways to go closer 501 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 4: to home, more vacations but smaller radius. Shall we say, 502 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 4: from whatever your origin point is, maybe more long weekend 503 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 4: trips rather than two week forays somewhere very far away. 504 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 4: So definitely high demand. 505 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely so, Chris, Where are you seeing that people 506 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: could get some of that bang for their buck in 507 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: terms of certain destinations they might be thinking about. 508 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 5: Well, one of the things that we've noticed for this 509 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 5: year in the past couple of years actually is that 510 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 5: the Caribbean is no longer a place where travel softens 511 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 5: in the summer. People are going for a hot Caribbean 512 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 5: summer because prices are a little bit more on the 513 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 5: reasonable side, and resorts are great to be at. The 514 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 5: weather actually because of climate change, the weather actually there 515 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 5: is actually kind of more temperate than it is in 516 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 5: a lot of other places that you might want to go, 517 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 5: especially southern Europe. So we're seeing a lot of people 518 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 5: going there, and especially Canadians. 519 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 4: Canadians don't want to go to the US this year. 520 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 4: They're really tired of the fifty first state rhetoric that's 521 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 4: come from our administration lately, and they're really turning to 522 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 4: the Caribbean as an alternative. There's a lot of airlines 523 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 4: are meeting that demand with direct routes to places like 524 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 4: Bermuda is particularly popular with Canadians this year. But even 525 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 4: Americans who are saying, like, I don't know if I 526 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 4: shian splurge on that trip to Paris or to whatever, 527 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 4: are looking at options a little bit again closer to home, 528 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 4: and they're saying, I don't need to spend five thousand 529 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 4: dollars a night for the last remaining hotel room on 530 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 4: the Amalfi coast, which is this is like a real thing. 531 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 4: The prices are that intense in some of these very 532 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 4: tony established destinations, and they're saying, I can spend a 533 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 4: tenth as much and stay at a great resort in Jamaica. 534 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: Why not do that? Now that's interesting because you know, 535 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: when you think about the idea of staying close to home, 536 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: you're talking about the climate out there, not just in 537 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: terms of the weather, but in terms of the politics. 538 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: Does that mean that, you know, some of those out 539 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: of the way destinations that maybe some Americans might have 540 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: thought about maybe one or two years ago, are starting 541 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: to look a little less welcoming now. 542 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 4: When you say out of the way destinations are you 543 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 4: thinking about in Europe? 544 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? 545 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 4: But yeah, well, you know, I think that it's less, 546 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 4: the destinations in Europe are not extending their open arms. 547 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 4: They places in Europe want the American dollar more than 548 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 4: anything else. We are famously the highest spending travelers in 549 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 4: the world, So hotels and restaurants and businesses in Europe 550 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 4: want nothing more than Americans to come spend those, you know, 551 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 4: higher sums than anyone else. What Americans are a little 552 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 4: bit worried about, anecdotally from what we've heard, is not 553 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 4: receiving as warm of a welcome in terms of how 554 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 4: our political standing looks abroad. And so while our dollars 555 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 4: might be welcome, there might be some you know, some 556 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 4: emotional stuff almost that gets in the way. 557 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 5: Also when it comes to a warm welcome. We should 558 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 5: say some of the things we've been writing about for 559 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 5: this summer are cool cations, literally going places where it 560 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 5: is noted as hot. 561 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 562 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 5: So one of the places we recommend going is Greenland. 563 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 5: It's such an amazing place to visit, and there's so 564 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 5: many things to do, and there's increasing air access it's 565 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 5: actually easier to get there, and there's more hotels and 566 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 5: more sort of glamping resorts. So that's a place to 567 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 5: be great to explore. Sweden also is one of our 568 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 5: places that we find a lot of people are going to. 569 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 5: Rotterdam has a great new museum, the Phenix Museum about migration. 570 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 5: So we have a lot of recommendations that pursuits about 571 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 5: places to go where it's less explored and it's also 572 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 5: less hot. 573 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: Does less explored also mean less excessive? 574 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 2: It sure does. 575 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 4: I'm sure you've never I'm assuming here. I'm sure you've 576 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 4: never heard of a place called Skane, Sweden. 577 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: Kids. 578 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, imagine imagine that you could go to a 579 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 4: beautiful countryside destination in Sweden. Incidentally, it's about like thirty 580 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 4: minutes outside of Copenhagen, or ninety minutes i should say, 581 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 4: but very close to a major city. And yet you've 582 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 4: got these rambling estates almost like what you would find 583 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 4: in the British countryside, except it's a little bit more 584 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 4: hig you know that cozy word that they use hig 585 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 4: and and you've got these beautiful palacial estates that have 586 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 4: been turned into five star hotels. You have some of 587 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 4: the best chefs in Scandinavia are setting up restaurants in 588 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 4: this region. And it's it's easy to access, you know, 589 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 4: major commercial flights in and out of Copenhagen, no problem. 590 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 4: And what you're paying for a night at an estate 591 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 4: like that two hundred and twenty five dollars at a 592 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 4: polace called mary Hill Estate. Just to throw out one 593 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 4: great example. 594 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: That's fantastic. And you know, another piece of writing that 595 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: is really interesting that your team has come up with 596 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: is it's not just getting a bang out of your 597 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: book or a new experience. That might be a good 598 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: reason to do one of these less predictable vacations. Perhaps 599 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: it could actually be good for your brain. Chris. 600 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 5: Yes, taking an unpredictable or even scary vacation is actually 601 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 5: really good for your brain, and it releases more dopamine 602 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 5: than a normal good vacation. Something that someone told when 603 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 5: Expert Tolds, which I thought was really interesting, is that 604 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 5: what really releases dopamine on a vacation, which is the 605 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 5: neurochemical that makes you happy and feel relaxed and having fun, 606 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 5: is not when a vacation is good. It's that it's 607 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 5: when it's better than expected, you know, which is a 608 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 5: different thing. So we have a great essay by one 609 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 5: of our travel writers, Jen Murphy and Bloomberg Weekend about 610 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 5: how if you go to a place that feels like 611 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 5: a little bit on edge for you. Maybe you're hiking 612 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 5: in the wilderness and it's like a challenge, or you're 613 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 5: going to a new area you've never been, or you 614 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 5: don't know a lot about. Those vacations are actually extremely 615 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 5: valuable to waking up your brain and waking up your senses. 616 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: We're speaking with Niki Eckstein and Chris Rouser of Bloomberg 617 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: Pursuits getting ready for summer travel. Now, if money is 618 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: no object, Chris, what's your favorite destination that you're thinking 619 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: about right now if you've just got money to burn. 620 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 5: That's a great question. I have a lot of things 621 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 5: on my list because I have a small child, and 622 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:36,959 Speaker 5: there's a lot of places I feel like I can't go. 623 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 5: But a place I've never been and I'm dying to 624 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 5: go is Japan. And we have an incredible writer, Brandon Presser, 625 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 5: who does all of our city guides, very very in 626 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 5: depth city guides called two Night Minimum, and he recently 627 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 5: wrote a story for us because he just did a 628 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 5: city guide to Kyoto that was like, you know what 629 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 5: you're doing Japan wrong. If you're going to Kyoto, you 630 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 5: might you worried about crowds, but Actually, there's a lot 631 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 5: of really great places in Kyoto to explore. If you're 632 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 5: just sort of going between Kyoto and Tokyo. There, it's 633 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 5: all these other places that you can go to, and 634 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 5: you know, these cities are not that easy to penetrate. 635 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 5: So if you're not hiring a guide that has local 636 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 5: connections and people who can kind of get you into 637 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 5: restaurants that seem like there are no reservation or get 638 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 5: you into back alleyways that have interesting shops, you kind 639 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 5: of need to go with somebody who knows what they're 640 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 5: doing and who knows people. 641 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, you would think so. I mean, you just got 642 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: to think about, you know, the difficulties of the language 643 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: in a place like Japan. And you've also been writing 644 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: about why this maybe could be the year that if 645 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: you're thinking about that excursion to the Egyptian Pyramids, that 646 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 1: this really could be the year to do it. Nikki. 647 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,479 Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, So we actually put Egypt on our where 648 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 4: to Go in twenty twenty five list if you haven't 649 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 4: seen that, that's kind of a master list that we 650 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 4: publish every single year at the beginning of the year, 651 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 4: offering up vacation ideas that are going to feel particularly 652 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 4: timely in the year to come, and Egypt was really 653 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 4: at at the top of our priority list well before 654 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 4: the year started. And now we have the fortuitous timing 655 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 4: that the Pyramids of Giza are basically reopening after a 656 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,919 Speaker 4: thirty million dollar renovation to all the infrastructure around the sites. 657 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 5: Not the pyramids. 658 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,280 Speaker 3: Yes, as we say, the pyramids. 659 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,240 Speaker 1: Themselves cannot. 660 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,280 Speaker 4: They haven't been turned into shiny glass skyscrapers. Not to worry, 661 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 4: but the experience of visiting the Pyramids was previously a 662 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 4: challenging one in many ways. There were hawkers and sometimes 663 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 4: scam artists that would set up around the Pyramids. The 664 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 4: infrastructure was lacking compared to the grandeur of the site itself, 665 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 4: and Egypt has partnered with a local billionaire to infuse 666 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 4: a lot of capital, a lot of more kind of 667 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 4: organizational and logistical prowess into making it a site that's 668 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,760 Speaker 4: worthy of its history and its role in world history. 669 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 4: So it is definitely a very very good time to 670 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 4: consider putting that on your list. Plus, the reopening of 671 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 4: the Pyramids coincides with the opening of the Grand Egyptian Museum, 672 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 4: which is a very long awaited institution filled with I 673 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 4: mean tens of thousands of objects spanning you know, the 674 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 4: entirety of time. 675 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: Wow. 676 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,879 Speaker 5: So Egypt is it's the best trip I've ever taken 677 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 5: in my life. If it's possibly on your list to anyone, 678 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 5: I really recommend going. It's totally unbelievable and these improvements 679 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 5: will be very, very cool. The old Grand Egyptian Museum 680 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 5: was like from the mixed up files of Missus Basil E. 681 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 5: Frank Weiler, like it was very disorganized and dusty and 682 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 5: incredible because it had like has King Tut's tomb in there. 683 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,399 Speaker 5: And now it's in this incredible new, gleaming, giant, new 684 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 5: facility that's well organized and just really wild. 685 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 4: And I have to say, like Cairo has always been 686 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 4: a jumping off point for the rest of Egypt, and 687 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 4: Cairo itself has never been kind of the highlight of 688 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 4: the trip, so this really does change a lot of that. 689 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 4: But you should still buy yourself as much time as 690 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 4: possible to be in Egypt because taking one of those 691 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 4: phenomenal masted ships down the Nile, and now they can 692 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 4: actually set port in like all of these beautiful ancient 693 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 4: cities where there are five star hotels that have popped 694 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 4: up in recent years. I mean, the facilities are just 695 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 4: absolutely somptuous. This is truly living like a king. 696 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 5: It's not crazy expensive. 697 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great idea, even not even for just 698 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 1: this summer, for maybe summers to come as well. But finally, 699 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 1: if people are still thinking about staying a little bit 700 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: close to home, this could be the year for the 701 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: great American resort. 702 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 4: Okay, this is a particular passion of mine, of us. 703 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 5: We've been talking about this for years. 704 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 4: I've been watching, I've been wondering for a long time. 705 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 4: You know why when we think about resorts, we think 706 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 4: about traveling abroad as Americans oftentimes when really in the 707 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 4: US we have this incredibly rich history of resorts. And 708 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 4: as we kind of notice that more and more of 709 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 4: these old American five star properties are getting these incredible 710 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 4: glow ups, I mean, investments of nearly half a billion 711 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 4: dollars in some cases, it really put pushed us down 712 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 4: a path of exploring the legacy of the American resort. 713 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 4: And we've learned in the process that the concept of 714 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 4: the resort, the concept of the luxury resort, is an 715 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 4: American creation, which I had no idea. 716 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 5: This was a surprise. You think of like European Grand 717 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 5: resorts on the Grand Tour as like, kind of who 718 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 5: invented that tradition of a giant hotel in a beautiful 719 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 5: place where everything is at your fingertips at that resort? 720 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, quite a far cry from the route sixty six 721 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: motels the night. Yes, thank you for this. Really great 722 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: to have this conversation thinking about the kickoff of summer 723 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: travel our thanks to Nikki Eckstein and Chris Rouser of 724 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Pursuits. We'd also like to thank Bloomberg Intelligences Jennifer 725 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: Ree and Bloomberg News reporter Simone Foxman. Of course, thank 726 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: you to you as well for joining us on this 727 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,240 Speaker 1: Juneteenth holiday. I'm Nathan Hager. Stay with us. Top stories 728 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,359 Speaker 1: in global business headlines are coming up right now.