1 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor. I'm Anyries and I'm Loryen 2 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: Vogelbaum and today we've got another food fairy tale for you. 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: We do we do. It's uh well as many names 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: are two names too, as many. Um it's a story 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: by the brothers Grim called sometimes the Almond Tree and 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: sometimes the Juniper Tree. And uh yeah, yeah, we've done 7 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: one food fairy tale in the past. If y'all haven't 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: heard our Goblin Market episode. Um. The the idea here's 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: that we take a story in the public domain, um 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: that's about food in some way, and do a dramatic 11 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: reading with some of our friends here around the house 12 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: Stuff Work Slash, I Heart Media Office, and then Dylan 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: does his magic with with the score and some effects 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: and then we maybe discuss it just a little bit. Yeah, 15 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: and uh the last episode that we did like this 16 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: was really fun to do and I think I think 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: it came out pretty well, So I would go check 18 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: it out if you haven't heard it. Oh, absolutely, Yeah. 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 1: The guys from Stuff to Blow Your Mind, Robert Lamb 20 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,919 Speaker 1: and Joe McCormick joined us and they are mad geniuses 21 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: and and it's a poem by Christina Rossetti. So it's beautiful. Yes, 22 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: and um, already going to solicit if you have any 23 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: ideas for future public domain stories that include food of 24 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: fairy tales that we can do. We really enjoyed doing these, 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: so send those our way. And this one was a 26 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: great one that that you found, Lauren, Did I find it? 27 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: I didn't find it. I don't know if it's just materialized. 28 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: You are going to do this. We wanted to do 29 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: one for Halloween that involved cannibalism because that is a 30 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: popular trope in fairy tales. Yeah, um and so yeah, 31 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: so we thought like, oh man, cannibalism, that's fun for Halloween. 32 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: But it didn't happen for Halloween, and now it Thanksgiving 33 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: and slightly less appropriate, but it's still fun. Right. It's 34 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 1: about eating. It is about eating. There's other things. There's 35 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: other food, family and thankfulness. Yeah, there's a lot of themes. 36 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: We totally planned this whole thing. And you'll never guess 37 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: who wrote to this tale. Well I already mentioned it, 38 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: so what Yeah, sorry, that's a that's the Brothers Grim. Yeah. 39 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, that's right. I was going to do 40 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: a whole Oh I'm sorry, that's okay. We can take 41 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: that back where we can keep this now, we should 42 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: keep it, okay, so people know what it's like. Come on, 43 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: we're all fallible humans, yes, and that's what fairy tales 44 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: seem to expose exactly, Yes, okay. Jacob and Wilhelm Grim 45 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: first published their collection of Kinderland house Marsion that's Children 46 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: and household Tels in Germany in eighteen twelve. It was 47 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: over a decade's worth of work that they began when 48 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: they were still in their teens. They're born just a 49 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: year apart in seventeen eighty six, and the brothers faced 50 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: their their own share of young hardship, much like we 51 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: hear about in some of these stories. They began supporting 52 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: their mother and three younger siblings after their father passed 53 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: in seventeen ninety six, and became the facto heads of 54 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: the family after their mother followed him in eighteen o eight. 55 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: It was a time in general of of great upheaval 56 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: in the area that Napoleonic Wars were raging, and part 57 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: of the work that they were doing in school and 58 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: in Wilhelm's work as a librarian was in the emerging 59 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: field of philology that's the study of language in written 60 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: and oral texts throughout history, and they would go on 61 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: to do some pioneering work in like tracing sound shifts 62 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: in the German language and in founding the German Dictionary. 63 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: But back to their story collection. In eighteen o eight, 64 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: the same year that their mother died, a poet friend 65 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: working on a book of literary fairy tales started asking 66 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: them to collect any folk tales they might find for him, 67 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: and he wound up abandoning the project. So the brothers 68 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: published their collection themselves in two volumes, eighty six tales 69 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: in eighteen twelve and then another seventy tales years later, 70 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: and they'd refine the stories a lot over the next 71 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: four decades, leading up to what's considered the definitive edition 72 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: of two and ten tales being published in eighteen fifties seven. 73 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: Wilhelm worked with the stories, shifting them from their original 74 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: oral tradition style to a more literary style in the 75 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: interest of appealing to the public. And the stories were 76 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: never meant to be read by children, not not specifically, 77 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: no nos, and certainly not certainly not at that point. 78 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: It would shift later and we'll talk about that later. 79 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, the grand brothers were looking to preserve these 80 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: tales that have been passed around by oral storytellers. You know, 81 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: these were stories that people would tell each other to 82 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: get through their days and nights of work. So why 83 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: you have so much repetition and verse in these types 84 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: of stories because there oral um. In their preface, the 85 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,799 Speaker 1: Grim Brothers said in German, this is a translation. Wherever 86 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: the tales still exist, they continue to live in such 87 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: a way that nobody ponders whether they are good or bad, 88 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: poetic or crude. People know them and love them because 89 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: they have simply absorbed them in a habitual way, and 90 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: they take pleasure in them without having any reason. This 91 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: is exactly why the custom of storytelling is so marvelous. Yeah, 92 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: I don't. I find it so fascinating that the tales 93 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: that they collected were tales of hardship and wonder. They 94 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: were cruel and surreal and figurative, and although collected partially 95 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: as part of the growing nationalistic German movement, um, they 96 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: hold universal fears and hopes and values. Yeah yeah, and cannibalism. 97 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: So so, on this Thanksgiving weekend, we wanted to present 98 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: you with the almond tree, sometimes translated as the juniper tree, 99 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: and I mucked around with a couple of translations here. Um, 100 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: it's mostly an almond tree version, translated by one Lucy Crane, 101 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: first published in eight two. There's a few lines in 102 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: here from Margaret Hunt's version, which is a juniper tree 103 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: one and was first published. But you know, it's a mishmash. 104 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: It is. It's it's it's a it's a spicing, it's 105 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: a it's a peppering. Yeah yeah, And so without further ado, well, okay, 106 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: some do, because we're gonna go to an ad break. 107 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: But then when we get back the almond tree and 108 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: we're back, thank you sponsor, and we present the almond tree. 109 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: A long time ago, perhaps as much as two thousand years, 110 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: there was a rich man and he had a beautiful 111 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: and pious wife, and they loved each other very much. 112 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: They had no children, though they wished greatly for some, 113 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: and the wife prayed for one day and night. Now, 114 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: in the courtyard in front of their house stood an 115 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: almond tree, And one day in winter, the wife was 116 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: standing beneath it and parrying herself an apple. And as 117 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: she paired it, she cut her finger and the blood 118 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: fell upon the snow. Ah said the woman, sighing deeply 119 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: and looking down at the blood, if only I could 120 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: have a child as red as blood and white as snow. 121 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: And as she said these words, her heart suddenly grew light, 122 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: and she felt sure she should have her wish. So 123 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: she went back to the house, and when a month 124 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: had passed, the snow was gone. In two months everything 125 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: was green. In three months the flowers sprang out of 126 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: the earth. In four months the trees were in full leaf, 127 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: and the branches were thickly entwined. The little birds began 128 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: to sing, so that the woods echoed, and the blossoms 129 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: fell from the trees. When the fifth month had passed, 130 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: the wife stood under the almond tree, and it smelt 131 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: so sweet that her heart leaped within her, and she 132 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: fell on her knees for joy. When the sixth month 133 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: had gone the fruit was thick and fine, and she 134 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: remained still. And the seventh month she gathered the almonds 135 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: and ate them eagerly, and was sick and sorrowful. And 136 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: when the eighth month had passed, she called to her 137 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: husband and said, weeping, if I die, bury me under 138 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: the almond tree. Then she was comforted and happy until 139 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: the ninth month had passed, and then she bore a 140 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: child as white as snow and as red as blood. 141 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: And when she saw it, her joy was so great 142 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: that she died. Her husband buried her under the almond tree, 143 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: and he wept sore. After some time he was more 144 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: at ease, and though he still wept, he could bear it. 145 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: And after some time longer he took another wife. His 146 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: second wife bore him a daughter, and his first wife's 147 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: child was a son, as red as blood and as 148 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: white as snow. Whenever the wife looked at her daughter 149 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: she felt great love for her, but whenever she looked 150 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: at the little boy, evil thoughts came into her heart 151 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: of how she could get all of her husband's money 152 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: for her daughter, and how the boy stood in the way. 153 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: And so she took a great hatred to him, and 154 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: drove him from one corner to another, and gave him 155 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: a buffet here and a cuff there, so that the 156 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: poor child was always in disgrace. When he came back 157 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: after school hours, there was no peace for him. Once, 158 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: when the wife went into the room upstairs, her little 159 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: daughter followed her and said, mother, give me an apple. Yes, 160 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: my child, said the mother, and gave her a fine 161 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: apple out of the chest, and the chest had a 162 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: great heavy lid with a strong iron lock. Mother said 163 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: the little girl, shall not my brother have one too? 164 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: That was what the mother had expected, and she said, yes, 165 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: when he comes back from school. And when she saw 166 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: from the window that he was coming, an evil thought 167 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: crossed her mind, and she snatched the apple and took 168 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: it from her little daughter, saying, you shall not have 169 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: it before your brother. Then she threw the apple into 170 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: the chest and shut the lid. Then the little boy 171 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: came in at the door, and she said to him 172 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: in a kind tone, but with evil looks, my son, 173 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: will you have an apple? Mother said the boy, how 174 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: dreadful you look? Yes, give me an apple. Then she 175 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: spoke as kindly as before, holding up the cover of 176 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: the chest. Come here and take one out for yourself. 177 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: And as the boy was stooping over the open chest, 178 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: crash went the lid down, so that his head flew 179 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: off among the red apples. But then the woman felt 180 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: great terror and wondered how she could escape the blame. 181 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: And she went to the chest of drawers in her 182 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: bedroom and took a white handkerchief out of the nearest 183 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: drawer and fitting the head to the neck. She bound 184 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: them with the handkerchief so that nothing should be seen, 185 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: and set him on a chair before the door, with 186 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: an apple in his hand. Then came little Marjorie into 187 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: the kitchen to her mother, who was standing before the 188 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: fire stirring a pot of hot water. Mother said, Marjorie, 189 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: my brother is dding before the door, and he has 190 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: an apple in his hand and looks very pale. I 191 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: asked him to give me the apple, but he did 192 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: not answer me. It seems very strange. Go again to him, 193 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: said the mother, And if he will not answer, you 194 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: give him a box on the ear. So Marjorie went 195 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 1: again and said, brother, give me the apple. But as 196 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: he took no notice, she gave him a box to 197 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: the ear, and his head fell off, at which she 198 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: was greatly terrified and began to cry and scream and 199 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: ran to her mother and said, oh, Mother, I have 200 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: knocked my brother's head off, and cried and screamed and 201 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: would not cease. Oh, Marjorie, said her mother, what have 202 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: you done? But keep quiet that no one may see. 203 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: There is anything the matter. It can't be helped. Now 204 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: we will put him out of the way safely. The 205 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: mother took the little boy and chopped him in pieces, 206 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: and put him in the pot and made him into soup. 207 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: But Marjorie stood by, weeping and weeping, and all her 208 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: tears fell into the pot, and there was no need 209 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: of any salt. When the father came home and sat 210 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: down to the table, he said, where is my son? 211 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: But the mother was filling a great dish full of 212 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: black broth, and Marjorie was crying bitterly, for she could 213 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: not refrain. Then the father said again, where is my son? Oh, 214 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: said the mother. He has gone into the country to 215 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: his great uncle's to stay for a little while. What 216 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: should he go for? Said the father, And without bidding 217 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: me goodbye to Oh. He wanted to go so much, 218 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: and he asked me to let him stay there six weeks. 219 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: He will be well taken care of, dear me, said 220 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: the father. I'm quite sad about it. It was not 221 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: right of him to go without bidding me goodbye. With that, 222 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: he began to eat, saying, Marjorie, what are you crying for? 223 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: Your brother will certainly come back after a while. He said, well, wife, 224 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: the food is very good. Give me some more. And 225 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: the more he ate, the more he wanted until he 226 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: had eaten it all up, and he threw the bones 227 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: under the table. Then Marjorie went to her chest of 228 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: drawers and took one of her best handkerchiefs from the 229 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: bottom drawer, and picked up all the bones from under 230 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: the table, and tied them up in her handkerchief, and 231 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: went out at the door, crying bitterly. She laid them 232 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: in the green grass under the almond tree, and immediately 233 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: her heart grew light again, and she wept no more. 234 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: The almond tree began to wave to and fro, and 235 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: the boughs drew closer together, and then parted, just like 236 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: a clapping of hands for joy. Then a mist rose 237 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: from the tree, and in the center of this mist 238 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: there burned a fire, and out of the fire a 239 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: beautiful bird arose, and, singing most sweetly, soared high into 240 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: the air. And when he had flown away, the almond 241 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: tree remained as it was before, but the handkerchief full 242 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: of bones was gone. Marjorie felt quite glad and lighthearted, 243 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: as if her brother were alive again. So she went 244 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: back merrily into the house and had her dinner. The bird, 245 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: when it flew away, perched on the roof of a 246 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: goldsmith's house and began to sing. It was my move 247 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: who maderad me. It was my father who hate of me. 248 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: It was my sister Margery, who all my bones in 249 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: peace is found them in a hankerchief she bound and 250 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: laid them under the allmond tree. Cueit, cue it, key it, 251 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: I cried, Oh, what a beautiful bird am I. The 252 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: goldsmith was sitting in his shop making a olden chain, 253 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: and when he heard the bird, who was sitting on 254 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: his roof and singing, he started up to go and look. 255 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: And as he passed over his threshold, he lost one 256 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: of his slippers. And he went into the middle of 257 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: the street with a slipper on one foot and only 258 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: a sock on the other, with his apron on and 259 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: the gold chain in one hand, and the pincers and 260 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: the other. And so he stood in the sunshine looking 261 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: up at the bird. Bird, he said, how beautifully you sing? 262 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: Do sing that piece over again? No, said the bird, 263 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: I do not sing, faun nothing twice. If you will 264 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: give me that gold chain, I will sing again. Very well, 265 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: said the goldsmith. Here is the gold chain. Now do 266 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: as you said. Down came the bird and took the 267 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: gold chain, in his right claw, perched in front of 268 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: the goldsmith and sang, it was my moth, oh mad, 269 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: read me, it was my father who hate me. Then 270 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: the bird flew to a shoemaker's and perched on his 271 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: roof and sang, it was my moth mad, read me 272 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: it was. When the shoemaker heard, he ran out of 273 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: his door in his shirt sleeves and looked up at 274 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: the roof of his house, holding his hand to shade 275 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: his eyes from the sun. Why, bird, he said, how 276 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: beautifully you sing. Then he called in at his door, wife, Wife, 277 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: come out directly. Here is a bird singing beautifully. Holy listen. 278 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: She bound and laid them. Then he called his daughter, 279 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: all his children and acquaintance, both young men and maidens, 280 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: and they came up the street and gazed on the 281 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: bird and saw how beautiful he was, and what fine 282 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: red and green feathers he had, and how like real 283 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: gold his neck was, and how the eyes and his 284 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: head shone like stars. Bird, bird, said the shoemaker, do 285 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: sing that piece over again? No, said the bird, I 286 00:16:54,920 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: may not sing fun nothing twice. You must give me something, wife, 287 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: said the man. Go into the shop. On the top 288 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: shelf stands a pair of red shoes, Bring them here. 289 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: So the wife went and brought the shoes. Now, bird 290 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: said the man, single us that piece again. And the 291 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: bird came down and took the shoes in his left claw, 292 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: and flew up again to the roof and sang, it 293 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: was my math home, madder red me. And when he 294 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: had finished, he flew away with the chain in his 295 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: right claw and the shoes and his left claw, and 296 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: he flew until he reached a mill, and the mill 297 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: went clip clap, clip clap, clip clap, and in the 298 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: mill sat twenty millersman hewing a millstone hick hack, hick hack, 299 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: hick hack. While the mill was going, clip clap, clip clap, 300 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: clip clap, and the bird perched on a linden tree 301 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: that stood in front of the mill and sang, it 302 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: was my math home, madder read me. Here. One of 303 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: the men looked up. It was my father who hat 304 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: of me. Then two more looked up and listened. It 305 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: was my sister Margy Here. Four more looked up, who 306 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: all my bones in peace is? Found them in a hankerchief. 307 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: She bound. Now there were only eight left, hewing and 308 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: laid them under the all manned tree now only five, cueit, cueit, 309 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: key it, I cried, Now only one. Oh, what a 310 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: beautiful bird am I? At length? The last one left off, 311 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: and he only heard the end bird. He said, how 312 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: how beautifully you sing. Let let me hear that all. 313 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: Sing it again? No, said the bird, I may not 314 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: sing it twice for nothing. If you will give me 315 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: the millstone, I will sing it again. Indeed, said the man. 316 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: If it belonged to me alone, you should have it, 317 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: said the others. Then the bird came down, and all 318 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: the twenty millers heaved up the stone with poles, and 319 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: the bird stuck his head through the hole in the middle, 320 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: and with the millstone round his neck, he flew up 321 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: to the tree and sang, it was my moth, mad 322 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: read me. And when he had finished, he spread his wings, 323 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: having in the right claw the chain, and in the 324 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: left claw the shoes, and around his neck the millstone, 325 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: and he flew away to his father's house. In the 326 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: parlor sat the father, the mother, and Marjorie at the table. 327 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: The father said, how light hearted and cheerful I feel. Nay, 328 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: said the mother, I feel very low, just as if 329 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: a great storm were coming. But Marjorie sat weeping, and 330 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: the bird came flying and perched on the roof. Oh, 331 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: said the father. I feel so joyful, and the sun 332 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: is shining so bright. It is as if I were 333 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: going to meet with an old friend. Nay, said the wife. 334 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: I feel so anxious. My teeth chatted, and there is 335 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: fire in my veins. And she pulled out the lacing 336 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: of her stays to get air. And Marjorie sat down 337 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,479 Speaker 1: in a corner and wept, holding her plate before her 338 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: until it was quite full of tears. Then the bird 339 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: perched on the almond tree, and saying it was my moth, 340 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: mad ed me. And the mother stopped her ears and 341 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: hid her eyes and would neither see nor hear. But 342 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: there was a roaring in her ears like the most 343 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: violent storm, and in her eyes a quivering and burning 344 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: as of lightning. It was my father who hate of me, Oh, mother, 345 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: said the father. There was a beautiful bird singing so freely, 346 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 1: and the sun shines, and there's a smell sweet as cinnamon. 347 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: It was my sister Margery. Marjorie hid her face in 348 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: her lap and wept. But the father said, I must 349 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: go out to see the bird. Go, said the wife. 350 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: I feel as if the house were on fire. But 351 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: the man went out and looked at the bird who 352 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: All my bones in peace is found them in a 353 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: hankerchief she bound, and laid them under the all manned tree. Cueit, 354 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: cue wit key wit. I cried, Oh, what a beautiful 355 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: bird am I with that? The bird let fall the 356 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: gold chain upon his father's neck, and it fitted him exactly. 357 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: So we went indoors and said, look what a beautiful 358 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: chain the bird has given me. Then his wife was 359 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: so terrified that she fell all along the floor, and 360 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: her cap fell off her head. Then the bird began 361 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: again to sing. It was my moth who mader reed me. Oh, 362 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: groaned the mother a thousand fathoms underground, so as not 363 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: to hear it. It was my father who hate of me. 364 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: Then the woman fell down again, as if she were dead. 365 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: It was my sister Margery, Oh, said Marjorie. I'll go 366 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: out too and see if the bird will give me anything. 367 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: And so she went. All my bones in peace is 368 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: found them in a hankerchief she bound. Then he threw 369 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: the shoes down to her and laid them under the 370 00:22:53,760 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: allmand tree. Cue it, cue it, keep it. I cried, oh, 371 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: what beautiful bad Am I and poor Marjorie all at 372 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 1: once felt happy and joyful, and put on her red 373 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: shoes and danced and jumped for joy. Dear, she said, 374 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: I felt so sad before I went outside, and now 375 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: my heart is so light. He's a charming bird to 376 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: have given me a pair of red shoes. But the 377 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: mother's hair stood on end and looked like flame, and 378 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: she said, I feel as though the world were coming 379 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: to an end. I too, will go outside and see 380 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: if my heart feels lighter. And just as she went 381 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: outside the door, crash. The bird flew down the millstone 382 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: on her head and crushed her flat. The father and 383 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: Marjorie rushed out and saw smoke and flames of fire 384 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: rise up from the place. But when that had gone by, 385 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: there stood the little brother, and he took his father 386 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: and Marjorie by the hand, and all three felt happy 387 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: and content, and they went indoors and sat to the 388 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: table and had their dinner. And that brings us to 389 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: the end of our story, of our rendition of this story, 390 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: and we're going to have some discussion about it. But 391 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: first we're going to pause for one more quick break, 392 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor. And we're back. Thank you, sponsor. Yes, 393 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: thank you. Now let's discuss yes, because oh that was 394 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: weird as all. Heck it was. It's quite strange and 395 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: there's a lot going on here. Oh yeah, A couple 396 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: a couple of general notes I do want to put in. 397 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: The Grimm's work and popularity of these stories in general 398 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: helped kick start the entire European fascination with folklore in 399 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds. Um, so that's pretty significant, very much so. Yeah, 400 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: and also a word about the translation. So. Lucy Crane 401 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: was a writer, musician, and art critic in Victorian England. 402 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 1: She collaborated on her version of Household Tales with her brother, 403 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: an illustrator by the name of Walter Crane, and, in 404 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: comparison to other folks working with the Grimm's material at 405 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: the time, like Margaret Hunt, who was a philologist, Crane 406 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: wanted to create a book that was pleasing above being 407 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: like strictly accurate to the source materials. She was counting 408 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: on the illustrations to tell part of the story, and 409 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,719 Speaker 1: she was particularly keen to create lively rhymes and rhythms 410 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: when the stories included poetical verse like we heard here um. 411 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: Part of her other work was in nursery rhymes, so 412 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: it kind of makes sense, and critics see Crane's translation 413 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: as being part of this shift toward fairy tales being 414 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: considered children's literature rather than adult or scholarly literature. It 415 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: is true to the tone of the original works, but 416 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 1: it's meant to be read aloud and enjoyed in English. 417 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: Hunt's version is meant more to be studied. Um. When 418 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: we chose this story, I decided to use Crane's translation 419 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: because because of that cantor to the language. But I 420 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: also wanted to incorporate some of Hunt's working because it's 421 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: so stark and weird and poetic and it's like literalism 422 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: if that makes any sense. Yeah, yeah it does, And 423 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: this is really cool. It was something that I was 424 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: interested to learn because, Um, I think I've said before 425 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: on this show. Me and my old college roommate who 426 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: listens to the show, So hi Katie for listening. We 427 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: used to do an incredibly dorky but very much beloved 428 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: Halloween tradition where we would light because you know, we're 429 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: in a dorm room, so we had this like small 430 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: pumpkin and we would light like a little birthdache candle 431 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: and we would read, um these stories allowed like one 432 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 1: one horror story, short horror story. That's great. Yeah, it 433 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: was great. But um, I do love there is this 434 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: distinction between some that are better heard aloud and some 435 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: that are better read. And I do have I got 436 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: as a gift forever ago, um that all of the 437 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: grim Brother's grand fairy tales in this like beautiful book. 438 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: And um, I'm going to go because it as we 439 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: record this it is Thanksgiving weekend, Like we we have 440 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: run out of our buffer that we had at one point. 441 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: It was such a nice buffer, wasn't It is gone 442 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: super gone up. But I'm going to go home and 443 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 1: see if I can find that book and see if 444 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: this whose story is in there. Oh yeah, yeah, I 445 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: would be curious if it's If it's illustrated, I'd be 446 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: really curious to see if there's an illustration there. I'm 447 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: really excited. Oh yeah. Um, and the the episode art 448 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: that I'm nearly positive that we used. Yes, I'm bubblishing 449 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: A strange is one of the illustrations from the book 450 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: that Walter Crane did back in the eighties. So yeah, yeah, 451 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 1: because I believe it's in the public domain, which again 452 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: we love that jazz hands. Yeah, so let's let's talk 453 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: about some analysis. Yeah, and I love this first thing 454 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: that you found. This is so good. Yeah. Apparently J R. R. 455 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: Tolkien used this very story as an example of the 456 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: negative impact of censorship when it comes to children. He said, 457 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: either don't censor it, or don't tell them the story. 458 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: That was basically, yeah, oh man, JR. R. YEA so 459 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: good and I have kind of I guess it's not 460 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: that long. It looks long, but it's not that long. 461 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: Quote from him, kind of expounding on this. The beauty 462 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: and horror of the juniper tree, with its exquisite and 463 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: tragic beginning, the abominable cannibal stew, the gruesome bones, the 464 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: gay and benjul bird spirit coming out of a mist 465 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: that rose from the tree, has remained with me since childhood, 466 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: and yet always the chief flavor of that tale lingering 467 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: in the memory was not beauty or horror, but distance 468 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: in a great abyss of time. Without the stew and bones, 469 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: which children are now too often spared and mollified versions 470 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: of grim, that vision would largely have been lost. I 471 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: do not think I was harmed by the horror and 472 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: the fairy tale. Setting out of whatever dark beliefs and 473 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: practices of the past it may have come. Such stories 474 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: have now a mythical or total effect, and effect quite 475 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: independent of the findings of comparative folklore in capital letters, 476 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: and one which it cannot spoil or explain. They open 477 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: a door on other time, and if we pass through, 478 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: though only for a moment, we stand outside our own time, 479 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: outside time itself. Maybe Oh wow, yes, that's wild. All 480 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: about this boon tree or the juniper tree. I love that? Yeah, yeah, 481 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: um and and yeah. And it does have that kind 482 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: of timeless quality when I don't know, when I was 483 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: reading it, and especially when we were speaking it, we 484 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: kept remarking on how beautiful and different the language is 485 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: than anything that we would use today, and how stilted 486 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: it can sound, but in this really beautiful way that 487 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: doesn't I don't know, it really did. It really did 488 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: take me out of a time and place. Yeah, I 489 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: think a lot of times, a lot of for me, 490 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: it's easy to dismiss these things as like that was 491 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: so long ago, it doesn't feel real. And if something 492 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: can capture that and just remind me that these this 493 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: was like really a struggle for people or this was 494 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: how they spoke or whatever it is to connect myself 495 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: truly to that time. I think it's a pretty powerful 496 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: and an excellent work. It's one of the reasons I 497 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: love the Witch horror movie. Oh yes, oh so much. 498 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: The language and that is so good. Yeah. And a 499 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: lot of times when you read that, I feel like, 500 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: in my case, it just feels so distant. It doesn't 501 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: feel real. That movie felt very real. Oh, super real. 502 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: He can really real. I still am curious about the 503 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: taste of butter thing. It's a continual conversation in this office. 504 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: But back to what Tolkien was saying, I really agree 505 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: with him also about like don't don't censor stuff like 506 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: kids can handle it, or just don't or just wait 507 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: until they're older to give them the story when they 508 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: can handle it. Yeah. Um, and this this story went 509 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: on to inspire Briar Rose, which went on to inspire 510 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: Sleeping Beauty. Yeah, there's entire beautiful like trees no pun 511 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: intended for once. Um of how a lot of these 512 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: stories shifted and developed into other different versions. And I 513 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: also wanted to include here a quote from one Maria 514 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: ta Tar, who did a recent translation of the Brothers 515 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: Graham called the notated Brothers grim and she said about 516 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: the juniper tree. We start with myths of creation, which 517 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: often featured dismemberment and reconstitution of bodies. Fairy tales give 518 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: us loss and restitution in powerful ways. Even if you 519 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: suffer mutilation, there's regeneration and the promise of resurrection. I 520 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: think that's kind of what this is about. And let's 521 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: talk about some of those tropes. Oh yes, oh yes, 522 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: And let's start with a big one, The Evil Stepmother, 523 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, performed beautifully by Julie Douglas. We were like, 524 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: we really want Julie to do this, but we don't 525 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: want to offender by saying we think you'd be a 526 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: great evil sp because she was our super like, our 527 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: executive producer at the time, and so we were sort 528 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: of like, hey, hey, boss, do you want to be 529 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: our evil stepmother? That's too much into it, yeah, now, 530 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: But she was. She was totally game and she did 531 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: a great job. And I mean, if you it's Cinderella 532 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: one on one and it's no White Handsel and Gretel, 533 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: Sleepy Hollow, the Tim Burton One, the excellent Mary Kay 534 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: Nashley film It Takes two, which recently rewatched for the 535 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: first time, and it is great because Steve Guttenberg makes 536 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: his millions off of burgeoning cell phone technology. So everyone 537 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: go back and watch that. It's on Amazon Prime. I 538 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: didn't follow you on that last one, but I'm always 539 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: glad when you get to Mary Kate Nashley reference in here. 540 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: Thank you for letting me have that moment. And I 541 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: was reading. I actually read not one, but two forty 542 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: plus page essays about evil stepmothers in preparation for this, 543 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: And you're not going to hear much of any of that, 544 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: but I've got a lot of thoughts on it. Oh man, 545 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: do I do I sense a stuff Mo've never told 546 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: you episode forthcoming? Perhaps I made me think about a 547 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: lot of things. And one of the authors of these essays, 548 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: she said, when you hear stepmother, there's a good chance 549 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: that you automatically put evil in front of it in 550 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: your head, that it's as linked as peanut butter and jelly. Heck, yeah, 551 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: and um. She goes on to right that she started 552 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: to view Cinderella as the story begins at the end, 553 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: and maybe Cinderella gets divorced and she couldcome with somebody's 554 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: step mom. Oh no, because she might be a good 555 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,240 Speaker 1: step mom. And also they reframed it, um, in terms 556 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: of the time and anyway, I have a lot of 557 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: thoughts on Cinderella, and speaking of the times, the times 558 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: have changed. Marriage used to be much more of an 559 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: economical decision. Yeah, romantic love didn't happen until very recently. Yeah, so, 560 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: so women didn't really have a role in deciding who 561 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: they were going to marry, oftentimes and all the time 562 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: at oftentimes, and it was this yeah, purely kind of 563 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: money financial move on both sides. Sure, I mean, and 564 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: that's not to say that spouses wouldn't love each other 565 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: and that love didn't exist, but it just wasn't formalized 566 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: in marriage, especially with the way that like, for example, 567 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: the diamond industry pedals the concept. Sure we could do 568 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: so many like side things here, but we're gonna focus okay, Yeah, 569 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: I know. Um yeah, women didn't really have a way 570 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: to make money in the context of when this was written. Um. 571 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: And unless your husband and as children died then they 572 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: might inherit they could own. So the sticks were really high, um. 573 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: And in theory, in in terms of these stories, these 574 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 1: fairy tales that were written during this time. There was 575 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: no real push for a stepmother to love her stepchildren, 576 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: especially if she had children of her own. She wanted 577 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: to inherit, to inherit anything, right, Yeah. Um, and that 578 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: is very, very different from these are modern times in 579 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: most places, hopefully fingers crossed indeed rights. Also, women were 580 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: far more likely to die in childbirth those days than 581 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: they are currently, So this was a situation that you 582 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: might be encountering more often. It wasn't as uncommon. Yeah. 583 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: It was a concern, kind of a societal concerns yeah. Yeah, which, 584 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: as we have said before on this show and others, Um, 585 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: all those concerns get wrapped up into these horrific yeah tales. Um. 586 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: The conflicting loyalties for stepchildren. That's something that I read 587 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 1: a lot about in these essays. An evil stepmother in 588 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: some ways is easier to compartmentalize. It's less complicated. She's evil, 589 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: so I can't hate her, um, compared to the complex 590 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: nuance and emotions that all humans experience. I did come 591 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: across this stat and several of the things I read 592 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,439 Speaker 1: that stepparents are about seventy times more likely to kill 593 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: their stepchildren than birth parents and about forty times likelier 594 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: to abuse their stepchildren. But but those sound horrible. These 595 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: cases are still really really rare y Yeah, yeah, it 596 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: was part of this whole Like can we discredit this 597 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: trope um study? And like mostly you can, But that's 598 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: that's h And I read so many women who are stepparents, 599 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 1: who are stepmothers saying that this trope when they see 600 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 1: their stepchildren and even their own children watching Cinderella snow 601 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: White and kind of internalizing this, and that it does 602 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: impact their relationship and it makes them self doubt their 603 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: abilities to parent. So it does have an impact these 604 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: things we're talking about, how like a real world impact 605 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: that's not surprising but very striking and also sad. Yeah, 606 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,320 Speaker 1: and man, I could just go on and on. But 607 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: in some were in some languages, the word for stepmother 608 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 1: I means it translates to lesser mother or less than mother. 609 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: Why do we do that? Humans get it together and 610 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: be nice to each other. I feel like this has 611 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:13,240 Speaker 1: become a defense of the evil stepmother who eats anyway, 612 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,760 Speaker 1: and in this particular story, in some translations, the stepmother 613 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,320 Speaker 1: is possessed by the devil. Yeah, I think what pushed 614 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,800 Speaker 1: me over originally into liking the Crane translation versus the 615 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,399 Speaker 1: Hunt translation is that Margaret Hunt, yeah, used this very 616 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: specific language that was like and then the devil came 617 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: into the mother and made her say this kind of language. 618 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 1: And I and I found that from a modern standpoint, 619 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: from my personal standpoint, a less compelling than just the 620 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 1: internal struggle of the mother being more you know, literal 621 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: and less figurative. Yeah. Um, ultimately this this kind of 622 00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 1: evil stepmother, um, like the beautiful, ideal maternalistic almost like 623 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 1: Virginia strangely, Yeah, like the mother Mary kind of thing. Yeah, 624 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: who in this story she dies of happiness when she 625 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:16,319 Speaker 1: has has a baby. Right, Both both of these are 626 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: very reductive, and I gosh, I could keep going on, 627 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: um finding nemo. They were saying, how like the mother 628 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,919 Speaker 1: dies in the very beginning as a way to show 629 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: like how good of a dad it can be. So 630 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: the point being, this is still happening, We are still 631 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: seeing this, We are progressing and making a larger range 632 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 1: of films. Yeah, yeah, but it is still pretty prevalent. Yeah, 633 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 1: and I what was it was like Brave, the very 634 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 1: first Disney movie where the mother was like living and 635 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: was not an evil stepmother. Mm hmm. Brave made me cry. 636 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: I liked that movie made me cry too. We're gonna 637 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 1: be okay, Yes, let's talk. A cannibal is perfect because, 638 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: like we said, this does come up a lot in 639 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: fairy tales and going back to me and my roommate 640 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: reading those horror stories um during October. The liver story. 641 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 1: There's different versions of this, but it's it's either. I 642 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 1: think the two biggest ones are the revenge story of 643 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: the woman who like cuts out her husband's liver and 644 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: feeds it to him um or a guy, a son 645 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,280 Speaker 1: or a husband who the wife is like, here's five dollars, 646 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: go by some liver tonight for dinner. And then he 647 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 1: spends all his money on candy. And so he of 648 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,320 Speaker 1: course goes to a cemetery who digs up a body 649 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: takes the liver. It's like here, I I bought I 650 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: bought this liver. Yeah, and then the corpse of the 651 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,760 Speaker 1: dead guy comes like a knocking. Yeah. He says, Johnny, 652 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: I want my liver back, Johnny, I want That's how 653 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: I do it, you know, and he kills the guy. 654 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:05,360 Speaker 1: So moral, don't spend all your money on candy. Definitely 655 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: don't grave rob afterwards. That's probably better if you do 656 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: spend all your money on candy, be like, look, mom, 657 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 1: we're eating candy for dinner. What's up. That's a much 658 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: better world to take from that story. Oh no, Hands 659 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: on guttle is another great example. And um, that freaky 660 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: French song that I shared with you, there's this French 661 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 1: Christmas song and it sounds very upbeat, but this story 662 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: is about a butcher who he like three children come 663 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,720 Speaker 1: to his door and he chops them up and pickles 664 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:48,479 Speaker 1: them and pickles them, and then St. Nicholas is like, hey, 665 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: did you tap up those kids? This is a Christmas song. 666 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: It's a Christmas song. But yeah St Nick just comes 667 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: along and it's just like like like magic, magic, magic, 668 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,720 Speaker 1: You're no longer pickled gratulations children. Yeah, and the butcher 669 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: just kinds of run runs away. Anyway. It's on YouTube. 670 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: It's got a weird animation style to it as well. Um, 671 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 1: I think it's called three Little Children. Search that out 672 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,839 Speaker 1: if you're looking for something Christmas. If you're if you're 673 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: a native French speaker and you grew up with that story, 674 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: please right in. I would love to hear about it. Yes, 675 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 1: oh yes, Um. So there is often this association with 676 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 1: food and death in fairy tales, and I suspected had 677 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: something to do with the lack of food safety, food 678 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:44,359 Speaker 1: safety and food security sure back when these stories were written. Um, yes, 679 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 1: handsl on Grettel, we were We almost did that one. Um. 680 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: But I suspect many of you have heard it. Yeah, yeah, 681 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 1: I wanted to do this one because it was different. Yeah, 682 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,359 Speaker 1: but like the apple from Snow White, the poison apple. Um. 683 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: And and aside from the pie, is it a pie 684 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: pie in this one, it's a it's a stew, it's 685 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 1: like a soup. Yeah, there's a few different there's in 686 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: the market Hunt translation. I think it was like like 687 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: black pudding, like like sausage. Um. But for some reason 688 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,720 Speaker 1: I liked the idea of this black broth that Crane 689 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: wrote about. Yeah. Right, But there was also an apple 690 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: in the very beginning. Are yeah frequently frequently a food um? 691 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: And that probably has to do with the story of 692 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: Adam and Eve um. The aforementioned Maria Tatar said the 693 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,640 Speaker 1: tales had their origins in a culture where famine was 694 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,399 Speaker 1: common and life was nasty. British and short, the young 695 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: and vulnerable may have indeed felt at risk when there 696 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,239 Speaker 1: was nothing to eat, even if, as we know, cannibalism 697 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: was a fairly rare phenomenon. One would hope for hope um. 698 00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 1: And another thing, a thing that we saw and it's 699 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: hard to see, is the religious aspect here um the Eucharis, 700 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: the eating of the body of Christ, the drinking of 701 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,239 Speaker 1: his blood when it comes to the little Boy, the 702 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,440 Speaker 1: cycle of life, birth and death, the boy representing two 703 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 1: bodies in one giving birth and dying, destruction and renewal, yeah, yeah, 704 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: dismemberment and reconstitution, regeneration, resurrection. Yeah, it's deep. Are are 705 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,719 Speaker 1: we just being very analytical? Maybe both know? And it 706 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,600 Speaker 1: kind of reminded me of like the of myths about 707 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,439 Speaker 1: the phoenix and stuff like that. So that's I don't know, Yeah, 708 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,239 Speaker 1: with the bird and everything exactly, I'm still not sure. 709 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,600 Speaker 1: I'm still not sure about the specific meaning of the 710 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 1: almond tree or the juniper tree. Yeah, and that's one 711 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: thing I didn't look into. Unfortunately, I read there there 712 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,799 Speaker 1: are actually at least two essays about this that are 713 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,400 Speaker 1: very um methodical, and one of them talked about the 714 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 1: tree and how it represents the mother um and gave 715 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,360 Speaker 1: examples of other things, other objects and fairy tales like 716 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: Briar Rose with the hedge of these objects that represent 717 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 1: like guardianship and protecting after after death. So yeah, there's 718 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,480 Speaker 1: one option. And I and I know I've I've now 719 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: quoted Maria Tutar a whole bunch in this in this 720 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 1: discussion portion, but there was a really great interview with 721 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 1: her that The Salt did and PR's the Salt did 722 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,799 Speaker 1: when that book of hers came out, and they ended 723 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: the interview with something that I'm totally stealing for the 724 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: ending of this now too because I thought it was 725 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,840 Speaker 1: so it it relates so precisely to why we wanted 726 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 1: to do this fairy tale series to begin with. She said, 727 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 1: often a great meal is the highest good in the 728 00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,719 Speaker 1: fairy tale. Yes, gold sparkles and shines, Ussel's lure and 729 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,359 Speaker 1: princesses await to the transformative kiss, but there's almost nothing 730 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,280 Speaker 1: like a full stomach for those living in fairytale worlds. 731 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:13,160 Speaker 1: There's a lesson there for all of us. Sure of that. Yeah, Yeah, 732 00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 1: we're sure of that too, and we love doing these 733 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:23,359 Speaker 1: so again, yeah, public domain, Yes, suggestions please, send them 734 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 1: our away. And if you are listening to this over 735 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:33,800 Speaker 1: the Thanksgiving holiday times, then we hope you have some 736 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:38,000 Speaker 1: good some good holidays. Yeah, yeah, we we hope. We 737 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,839 Speaker 1: hope that your family meals are slightly less fraught than 738 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 1: this one. If if you are staging a hunger demonstration 739 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,880 Speaker 1: in order to protest the holiday, then we hope that 740 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,719 Speaker 1: you are taking care of yourself and also spending good 741 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,920 Speaker 1: quality time with people that you love and support you. 742 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: So I think that just about wraps this one up. 743 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,400 Speaker 1: I think so. If you would like to email us, 744 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,239 Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. Our email is 745 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,279 Speaker 1: Hello at savor pod dot com. You can also find 746 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,239 Speaker 1: us on social media. We are on Instagram, Twitter, and 747 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,239 Speaker 1: Facebook at savor pod. We do hope to hear from you. 748 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,040 Speaker 1: Thank you as always to our super producer Dylan Fagan. 749 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: Thank you to Julie Douglas, our evil stepmother, Alex Williams 750 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:25,160 Speaker 1: as the father. Annie was our step daughter. It was Marjorie. Yeah, 751 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:30,520 Speaker 1: I was the dying mother. That was fun super special. 752 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,320 Speaker 1: Thanks to Matt Frederick, our narrator, Ben Bolan who played 753 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,520 Speaker 1: all of the villagers and uh and Noel Brown who 754 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,839 Speaker 1: was the voice of the Little Brother and the Bird there. Ah. 755 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 1: Their work made this what it is and we very 756 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: much thank them for their time. Um. If you'd like 757 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:48,840 Speaker 1: to hear more from them, you can find them on 758 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 1: their show about fringe theories and uh conspiracy realism. It's 759 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:54,760 Speaker 1: called stuff they don't want you to know. It's available 760 00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,640 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Yes, and um, Ben and 761 00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 1: Noel also do Ridiculous History if you would like to 762 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:03,800 Speaker 1: to check that out. I think I've been on it. 763 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 1: I think you've been on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah I was. 764 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 1: I was just on one that I think came out 765 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,839 Speaker 1: like two days ago. So about about nestleye. Oh, that's 766 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:16,600 Speaker 1: a sad story. I recapped some spam, some spam knowledge 767 00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:23,880 Speaker 1: recandid there's a spam pun there. But yeah, we'll stop 768 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,319 Speaker 1: spamming you be hope with lots more good things are 769 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:27,000 Speaker 1: coming your way