Speaker 1: The volume.
Speaker 2: This is Prime Cuts, the best of the Colin Coward Podcast.
Speaker 2: Jeff Benedict, Boy, this was good. Author of the new
Speaker 2: book Lebron, great insight into the decision and other major
Speaker 2: turning points in Lebron's career. Oops Tonight host Jason Timpf
Speaker 2: and I discussed big NBA topics, including why Luca maybe
Speaker 2: turning into a headache for the MAVs, and Mike Silver
Speaker 2: and I discuss what is reportedly the end of the
Speaker 2: Dan Snyder era in Washington. All Right, my buddy, Mike Silver,
Speaker 2: part of the volume, longtime NFL reporter writes for Ballely
Speaker 2: Sports in the San Francisco Chronicle, actually begin going to
Speaker 2: be doing some warrior games since he knows Steve Kerran
Speaker 2: knows hoops, which is great. We'll get into that in
Speaker 2: a second. Daniel Snyder, it's hard to ruin a great brand, right,
Speaker 2: Like Donald Sterling was a bad human, but that was
Speaker 2: never a great brand, right. Robert Sarver did all he
Speaker 2: could to ruin the Suns, but it wasn't a huge
Speaker 2: national brand. Seventies, eighties, nineties, Washington was the Packers. I
Speaker 2: mean they were when I was a kid growing up.
Speaker 2: They were the franchise after Dallas and the Steelers, and
Speaker 2: it's such a great fan base, exactly, exactly, So a
Speaker 2: lot of people felt, despite the harassment charges, that the
Speaker 2: owners would support Dan Snyder and he would just figure
Speaker 2: out a way despite bad pr to hang around. Any
Speaker 2: insight to what possibly happened.
Speaker 3: Well, I think one thing that happened is that one
Speaker 3: of his own publicly started talking about maybe kicking about
Speaker 3: And I know jimmers say really really well. I admire
Speaker 3: his conviction. He goes against the grain at times. It's
Speaker 3: possible Jim Rsay just spoke honestly and from his heart.
Speaker 3: It's also possible that Jim Ersay had had some conversations
Speaker 3: with other owners who said, you know what, we agree
Speaker 3: with you, and if you say that, you know you'd
Speaker 3: have our at least quiet support. But that was not
Speaker 3: insignificant when Jimmersay started public you know, came out publicly
Speaker 3: and said, yeah, I don't know, maybe we should get
Speaker 3: rid of this guy. Jim Ersay has three daughters, He's
Speaker 3: very close to him. He didn't like the way that
Speaker 3: the allegations against Stan Schneider were selling NFL owners and
Speaker 3: the league. You know, prior to that it had been thought, well,
Speaker 3: a lot of owners have skeletons. Trust me, I worked
Speaker 3: for them.
Speaker 4: For eight years. Trust they do.
Speaker 3: Whole other podcast topic. But you know a lot of
Speaker 3: owners have skeletons, and a lot of owners more charitably
Speaker 3: and have people come out of the woodwork to accuse
Speaker 3: them of things that maybe aren't totally accurate. But they
Speaker 3: didn't want to open that can of worms where you know, okay,
Speaker 3: if accusations happen, it sets the stage for these right franchises.
Speaker 3: They want to be generational that while we've been on
Speaker 3: this podcast that you know, each one is appreciated and
Speaker 3: another one hundred thousand dollars or something. You know, they
Speaker 3: didn't want to open that can of worms. And remember
Speaker 3: Jerry Richardson faced some pretty serious allegations just passed away recently.
Speaker 3: That problem got solved because he was older and he
Speaker 3: was just done. He was like, you know what, fine,
Speaker 3: I'm out. And they didn't have to the NFL owners
Speaker 3: didn't have to deal with it. The NBA solved the
Speaker 3: problem twice by throwing money at the problem. Essentially a
Speaker 3: having the balls Adam Silver on his first day on
Speaker 3: the job to say you're out. Donald Sterling, whether it's
Speaker 3: constitutional or not, and then a giant offer from Steve
Speaker 3: Ballmer and again with the suns that happened with Starvers.
Speaker 3: So you know, this is a little bit of all
Speaker 3: of that. Daniel Sider wasn't going to make it easy
Speaker 3: and walk away, but I think once he heard Jim
Speaker 3: Mersey say that, he realized, man, something has turned.
Speaker 2: Now the next least popular owner is Jimmy Haslam, who
Speaker 2: infuriated owners for another reason, an egregiously bad fully guaranteed
Speaker 2: contract to Deshaun Watson. So if we had a ranking
Speaker 2: of least popular owners among other billionaire owners, Haslam now
Speaker 2: is number one.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, that's so cool that you broached that because
Speaker 3: I used to do owner rankings.
Speaker 4: As far as I know, I'm the only one i've.
Speaker 3: I did them annually for SI dot com and then Yahoo,
Speaker 3: and of course they were my rankings about who I
Speaker 3: thought were doing the best jobs of owning teams.
Speaker 4: But that actually has my wheel.
Speaker 3: Spinning, like what about an insighty odor rankings of which
Speaker 3: owners are the most hated among the other owners. And
Speaker 3: you know, you bring up a good point, but I
Speaker 3: think in the end, you know, yeah, that frustrated other
Speaker 3: owners that Jimmy Haslam did that because now we got
Speaker 3: to deal with this guarantee contract stuff. And other owners
Speaker 3: didn't like it when David Tepper came in and gave
Speaker 3: Matt Rule. Sounds weird in retrospect, but gave Matt Rule
Speaker 3: all that money because it messed up the coaching contract market.
Speaker 3: But I feel like owners get over that stuff, you know, eventually,
Speaker 3: but the you know what owners can't get over allegations
Speaker 3: have proven and maybe we'll never know that one owner,
Speaker 3: Daniel Snyder, allegedly cooked the books and screwed them out
Speaker 3: of their share of the gates. That's less forgivable, you
Speaker 3: know for the billionaire set. So yeah, they tend to
Speaker 3: stick together. They tend to not want to set precedents like, oh,
Speaker 3: a couple of accusations could knock Xoder out of the
Speaker 3: league and make them lose this incredible investment. But you know,
Speaker 3: Daniel Snyder put them through the rigger in a lot
Speaker 3: of ways, and Ers, possibly knowing that he spoke for
Speaker 3: a larger contingent, was kind of like, Okay, this is
Speaker 3: this is a nightmare. Look if the Colts play the Commanders,
Speaker 3: if they're still called that at the FedEx Field or
Speaker 3: a new stadium, and Jim Orsay takes the field pregame
Speaker 3: to Goschmouze. He should get like an adoring celebration and
Speaker 3: a prolonged ovation from those Washington fans for a huge,
Speaker 3: huge assist on getting Daniel Snyder the f out, because
Speaker 3: heaven knows, it's been long coming and it's tough to
Speaker 3: shed any tears.
Speaker 2: So I want to talk about the Niners because you
Speaker 2: have such in depth, you have tentacles all over that organization.
Speaker 2: And by the way, increasingly when I follow your Twitter feed,
Speaker 2: all your critics are lightening up because you've been right
Speaker 2: so many times and broken so many stories. They are
Speaker 2: like silver, I hate eh, whatever, what's the latest news.
Speaker 2: So the trail ant stuff is interesting. I was talking
Speaker 2: to Jordan Palmer the other day and he's like, you know,
Speaker 2: if you look at the offense San Francisco runs, a
Speaker 2: lot of these plays are scheme to succeed. Sam Donald's
Speaker 2: going to have the best protection, the best weapons, the
Speaker 2: best coach he's ever had. And we know he's a big, strong,
Speaker 2: athletic kid and coachable and hard working. He's just not
Speaker 2: accurate enough. But this system makes you more accurate. Don't
Speaker 2: be shocked if Jimmy Garoppolo is not nearly as good
Speaker 2: with the Raiders as he was with the Niners. So
Speaker 2: brock Purty, I think the franchise likes a lot and
Speaker 2: Sam Donald are in house. We all know at some point,
Speaker 2: and I think the Niners are, and even some of
Speaker 2: the sound and some of the quotes from your articles,
Speaker 2: they're going to move off something if they missed. They're
Speaker 2: not going to try to double down on wrong. Let's
Speaker 2: just be honest. Could Trey Lance be moved before the season.
Speaker 3: He could, but I believe that brock Purty's injury and
Speaker 3: the uncertainty that still surrounds his recovery made that much
Speaker 3: much less likely. Before the playoffs, I wrote and reported
Speaker 3: it's over. Brock Purty's the guy because they want to
Speaker 3: go with this model where they pay everybody and have
Speaker 3: the quarterback on the rookie deal. Yeah, that's what That's
Speaker 3: what trading for that pick was about. That's what drafting
Speaker 3: Lance was supposed to be about. And with Purdy, the
Speaker 3: model is even better. You're not even allowed to reopen
Speaker 3: his contract for two more years. It's even cheaper than
Speaker 3: Trey Lance's deal, and he showed Kyle Shanahan. You know,
Speaker 3: people are like, well, how can you say Perdy. I'm like,
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that. Kyle believes it based on what
Speaker 3: he saw for Purdy the guy. So going into that
Speaker 3: Philly game for the Conference championship, the only thing that
Speaker 3: kuld of derailed that plan was what happened. If Rock
Speaker 3: Party had broken his leg, it would have been brutal
Speaker 3: and it would have hurt and it would have sucked.
Speaker 3: But they would have been like, fine, he'll come back.
Speaker 3: It's because of what happened to was throwing elbow. You're
Speaker 3: not totally sure. A you're not sure when, and B
Speaker 3: you're still not positive that it's going to be like
Speaker 3: it was before. And I have PTSD because a lot
Speaker 3: of my Twitter critics probably weren't born when I was
Speaker 3: right about the Joe Bontana Steve Young stuff. But Joe
Speaker 3: Bontana missed basically two seasons after elbow surgeries, and he
Speaker 3: did come back after that. It'd have two really really
Speaker 3: good years with the Chiefs, but nothing is promised, and
Speaker 3: so I think because of that, it gives them an
Speaker 3: opening to say, look, we knew Lance was going to
Speaker 3: take a while to develop because he was raw. It's
Speaker 3: taken longer. It didn't work when we just handed it
Speaker 3: to him last year. We ended up having to bring
Speaker 3: Garoppolo back as a hedge and ultimately turned the party.
Speaker 3: But maybe we can develop him and use this offseason
Speaker 3: to get him some more reps. And I don't know
Speaker 3: if this offense makes you more accurate, because you're going
Speaker 3: to have to be more accurate than or consistently accurate
Speaker 3: than Trai Lance was before he got hurt last year.
Speaker 3: But you know, there's still a lot of things to
Speaker 3: potentially like about him. So I believe what they'll do
Speaker 3: is they'll say, look, party's not going to be here
Speaker 3: till at least the start of the season, maybe longer.
Speaker 3: We're gonna split reps between Lance and Dartl's see how
Speaker 3: they react, see what we have. Basically, if one of
Speaker 3: them has to start the opener, it's the guy we
Speaker 3: think gives us the best chance to win. And I
Speaker 3: think one thing that people are missing here is that
Speaker 3: when they say, well, they're going to trade Trey Lance
Speaker 3: and admit their mistake, Yeah, eventually they're going to admit
Speaker 3: their mistake. If it was a mistake, but they're not
Speaker 3: fielding offers to get back in the first round for
Speaker 3: Trey Lance. And I know it only takes one team,
Speaker 3: but if they trade Trey Lance, now, I think it's
Speaker 3: for a three or something. And so I just don't
Speaker 3: think you have urgency too. You don't know about Purdy,
Speaker 3: you'd like another option, you'd like to see if you
Speaker 3: can develop a more because you do have a lot
Speaker 3: of vested in them. You're not paying them a lot,
Speaker 3: and you can always move them, you know, a year
Speaker 3: from now, if it goes the way you wanted to
Speaker 3: with Purdy, and possibly if it does with Darnold. So
Speaker 3: I think if someone called them and said we will
Speaker 3: give you it too, like something, they thought.
Speaker 4: Oh take a second, yeah they yeah.
Speaker 3: I think if someone calls and says we'll give you
Speaker 3: a three for Trey Lance, they go three. Let's see,
Speaker 3: we currently have ninety six picks in the third round.
Speaker 3: Not all these guys are going to make our team.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just don't think. I think I'd rather
Speaker 3: have a chance to, you know, develop of this offseason.
Speaker 4: Maybe they will.
Speaker 3: I don't even think they'll necessarily get off for a
Speaker 3: three right now. But listen, if he goes out and
Speaker 3: looks good in the preseason and possibly earlier the season,
Speaker 3: they could get a lot more for him a year
Speaker 3: from now.
Speaker 2: So you went to cal Aaron Rodgers did. But Aaron
Speaker 2: Rodgers has gotten a little bit more indifferent and critical
Speaker 2: of the media over the last several years. And I
Speaker 2: said this on the show today. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: reports now that this thing won't get done Jets and
Speaker 2: Packers until after the draft. So Green Bay does have
Speaker 2: a need at tight end that's fairly urgent. They'll probably
Speaker 2: draft a tight end in the first round. They need
Speaker 2: another receiver, pretty thin and young at receiver. They'll go
Speaker 2: that in the second round. But the roster is good,
Speaker 2: not great, but it's good. It's not San Francisco, it's
Speaker 2: not Philadelphia. I don't think it's as good maybe as
Speaker 2: you know a Buffalo or as you know the top
Speaker 2: teams in the AFC.
Speaker 4: But it's a good roster. I believe that.
Speaker 2: Aaron if he just came out and just said guys,
Speaker 2: I'm in for two years minimum, it would be over.
Speaker 2: You could then the Jets would be like, Okay, we
Speaker 2: know it, you know it. But I said this today,
Speaker 2: and I've been critical of Aaron. But Aaron's too smart
Speaker 2: to not know that once you take the most money,
Speaker 2: you won't have the best roster. He took the money.
Speaker 2: He's too smart to think, yeah, two rookie receivers, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to work with him in the off season.
Speaker 2: That'll work great. I honestly think that we all make
Speaker 2: choices on what matters to us. You have a great family,
Speaker 2: great friends in your career. You have prioritized those and
Speaker 2: they're all strong. Some people care about their careers, some
Speaker 2: people care about social life somewhat less stress. Aaron's made
Speaker 2: a decision, in my opinion, and winning. Second, what he
Speaker 2: wants is control over the media, over situations, over the Packers.
Speaker 2: That he could end all this bullshit. He can end
Speaker 2: the drama.
Speaker 5: Mike.
Speaker 2: If you just said two years I'm in, I'll think
Speaker 2: about a third. Why doesn't he do that?
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I've also made some bad decisions
Speaker 3: in terms of priorities, specifically continuing to root for cal
Speaker 3: which is you know, no, and I joke, but you know, charitably,
Speaker 3: for Aaron, I would say this, he said he was
Speaker 3: thinking about retiring, you know, very seriously recently. That's what
Speaker 3: he you know, will take up at his word. It's
Speaker 3: I think it's better not to say I'm in for
Speaker 3: two years if you're not sure that you are. And sure,
Speaker 3: he could say I'm in for two years and you know,
Speaker 3: by December be like, oh, I'm you know, this is terrible,
Speaker 3: I'm out here. But maybe it's to his credit that
Speaker 3: he's not sure he's in for two years. And listen,
Speaker 3: I know I know from talking to my sources that
Speaker 3: the Jets understand that there's a scenario where he only
Speaker 3: plays one and they are not telling the packers, sorry, man,
Speaker 3: we take it or leave it. What they're saying to
Speaker 3: the packers is, look, man, you know if it comes
Speaker 3: and he plays one year, we give up all this
Speaker 3: That seems kind of skewed. Is there a mechanism in
Speaker 3: this trade where if that happens, we get something back
Speaker 3: after he retires? And I think that's you know, they
Speaker 3: consider that a reasonable request. So yeah, Aaron can end
Speaker 3: that if he just said I'm in for two But
Speaker 3: maybe it's to Aaron's credit that he's not saying that
Speaker 3: because he's just not sure.
Speaker 2: Your guess how long you would play with the Jets.
Speaker 2: I think it's too you know, Aaron's career, first year
Speaker 2: as a starter in Green Bay, first year with Hackett,
Speaker 2: it has taken him usually because I've been told he's
Speaker 2: not a big grinder in the off season like a
Speaker 2: Brady A. Peyton or Russell Wilson, that Aaron's second year
Speaker 2: is usually the year he pops. Well, I don't think
Speaker 2: he wants to do a one walk off and be average.
Speaker 2: I think he wants to end. It's good for his legacy,
Speaker 2: it's good for money, it's good. I think he wants
Speaker 2: to have a reviable year and I don't think his
Speaker 2: first year, frankly is going to be great.
Speaker 3: But he doesn't consider this year one, first of all,
Speaker 3: Year one with Hackett on la floor was a whole
Speaker 3: new scheme and that I believe that was a legitimate adjustment.
Speaker 3: By the way they got to the NFC Championship game.
Speaker 3: He did not have a great statistical year, but they
Speaker 3: went thirteen to three and got to the FFC Championship game.
Speaker 3: But I think the way that he and the Jets
Speaker 3: are thinking of this is this is essentially year four
Speaker 3: after a gap, because it's Hackett, and because it's that offense,
Speaker 3: and it's not like Hackett plus Lafloor. By the way,
Speaker 3: Att Haacket plus Sola, who's like you run the offense,
Speaker 3: I'm you know, I'll keep an eye on my specialty,
Speaker 3: which is defense. So if you believe that Aaron and
Speaker 3: Hackett are now resuming a very fruitful partnership that won
Speaker 3: consecutive MVPs their next two years together, and it's the
Speaker 3: Jets receipts and other players who are going to have
Speaker 3: to adjust to that, Aaron may not think it's he.
Speaker 3: Aaron probably thinks I'm going to just be rolling for
Speaker 3: the get go. But going back to what you said earlier,
Speaker 3: just as he made a decision not to work with
Speaker 3: the new receivers a year ago, when clearly, as Patrick
Speaker 3: Mahobes could tell you, that was an important thing to
Speaker 3: do for winning, I think that's what you need to
Speaker 3: look at. If this trade doesn't get done Draft weekend,
Speaker 3: you will probably hear I suspect, Hey, it turns out
Speaker 3: Aaron Rodgers and Garrett Wilson and Al Lazard and you know,
Speaker 3: all those Jets targets are working out in La or somewhere,
Speaker 3: and because there's nothing to stop him, you can't say
Speaker 3: he's tampering. And you can't say Garrett Wilson's tampering. So
Speaker 3: I think it is important to have to hit the
Speaker 3: ground running at your and that that'll be the way
Speaker 3: we know if there's no trade right away or the
Speaker 3: next couple of weeks, I would expect we'll see him
Speaker 3: and those guys for the Jets start to work together.
Speaker 2: Well. I'm very excited I get to talk to Jeff
Speaker 2: Benedict after he finishes another absolutely consumable book. You know,
Speaker 2: he wrote The Dynasty. The insight on the New England Patriots,
Speaker 2: which is soon to be a documentary on Apple TV,
Speaker 2: was tremendous. He co wrote the book with my friend
Speaker 2: Armin Katayan Tiger Woods. And now the new book is
Speaker 2: Lebron and it's the kind of in depth reporting and
Speaker 2: context that you just don't get on certainly on shows
Speaker 2: like mine, but you don't even get in like a
Speaker 2: magazine article of some renowned It's such quality reporting. And
Speaker 2: I thought I knew just about everything about Lebron, but
Speaker 2: the details and the digging here is so fun. You
Speaker 2: start the book, the topic is the decision, which for
Speaker 2: years I defended Lebron on David Stern argued with me,
Speaker 2: I'm like listen, he gave millions of dollars of the
Speaker 2: Boys and Girls Club give me a break and Stern,
Speaker 2: as you know, appalled is too strong but didn't like it.
Speaker 2: So let's you start the book there. Maverick Carter, who
Speaker 2: I know very well consider a friend, had some leverage
Speaker 2: in creating this. Let's go back to the decision. People
Speaker 2: may just remember the Jim Gray interview. It's quick. How
Speaker 2: did it land for Lebron? Talk about the genesis of it.
Speaker 1: Well, it's fantastic because Lebron had been he was being
Speaker 1: courted for a year or longer by a handful of
Speaker 1: teams that were pulling out all the stops to get him.
Speaker 1: And you know, it was the question not just in
Speaker 1: the NBA, but the question in sports that summer was
Speaker 1: where is Lebron going to go? Or is he going
Speaker 1: to stay in Cleveland? And the reason I decided to
Speaker 1: open there is because, first of all, I was able
Speaker 1: to get access to some information about that day and
Speaker 1: that decision that has never really come out before. And
Speaker 1: that's why I wanted to start the book. In a
Speaker 1: car pulling out of the private airport in New York,
Speaker 1: making its way through the back roads of Greenwich to
Speaker 1: the home of the man who really Mark Dowley, who
Speaker 1: helped put this together with Maverick, And I just thought
Speaker 1: this gives the reader the opportunity to feel like they're
Speaker 1: literally in the car with Lebron as he's en route
Speaker 1: to make a decision in a part of the country
Speaker 1: that most people have never been to. I mean, most
Speaker 1: Americans have never been to Greenwich, Connecticut. And in a way,
Speaker 1: it's a weird place when you think about it. Why
Speaker 1: in the world would you choose Greenwich to make this announcement.
Speaker 1: It's Nick's country, if anything, and if you were going
Speaker 1: to go to the Knicks, Greenwich is an odd place
Speaker 1: to go to do this. And so I wanted to
Speaker 1: go there with the reader because I just thought it
Speaker 1: allowed me to show so many things about Lebron at
Speaker 1: that moment in his life. And I just love the
Speaker 1: scenery of them getting out of the car and Greenwich
Speaker 1: at this estate, Maverick and rich Paul, and they're flying
Speaker 1: so high in that moment, they're so happy, they're so
Speaker 1: almost in a way there is a naive ta about
Speaker 1: what's about to happen, and they're so loose.
Speaker 4: And then in a couple of hours, all hell breaks.
Speaker 2: It does take people listening now, because there is so
Speaker 2: much depth to this book. You can give away a
Speaker 2: lot and not give away a third of it. But
Speaker 2: when did they realize something had gone poorly with the decision?
Speaker 1: I think, you know, they started a sense that things
Speaker 1: aren't great immediately after the decision was announced and the
Speaker 1: initially ESPN broadcast had concluded, meaning the live event with
Speaker 1: Jim Gray, and then Lebron had to do an interview
Speaker 1: with Michael Wilbon who was in studio and doing a
Speaker 1: remote interview with Lebron who was still in Greenwich at
Speaker 1: the club, and the questions. One of the questions Wilbon
Speaker 1: asked him was if he could see what was happening
Speaker 1: in Cleveland. They were already burning his jersey, But it's
Speaker 1: not till later that evening, before they've left Greenwich though,
Speaker 1: to get on a private plane to go to Miami.
Speaker 1: They hung around for a while. They actually went back
Speaker 1: to Dowy's house and they were listening to music and
Speaker 1: hanging out. And then Dan Gilbert's letter shows up on
Speaker 1: the website and you're starting to go like wow, Like
Speaker 1: the New York Times puts up a story that's referring
Speaker 1: to the Evil Empire. And this is all happening in
Speaker 1: real time and Twitter works now right, It's Twitter's fairly
Speaker 1: new at this point, but it works, and the tweets
Speaker 1: are coming from all over the place, not just sports people,
Speaker 1: but people in entertainment, late night comedy. Everybody's piling on.
Speaker 1: And so by the time Lebron and his inner circle
Speaker 1: are in the air to fly to Miami, they know
Speaker 1: it's bad. And I love how Rich Paul refers to
Speaker 1: the quietest flight he'd ever been on with Lebron and Maverick.
Speaker 2: So there was a sweepstakes, as you note, to get Lebron.
Speaker 2: The Knicks had an interesting pitch, but Miami's landed. Tell
Speaker 2: our audience why, and they're tact, which is to me
Speaker 2: pat Riley's one of the smartest guys in league history.
Speaker 2: Not a shock he hit the right notes. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I love. The reason I love the Knicks pitch is
Speaker 2: because it's so New York and it's just so over
Speaker 2: the top and so inappropriate in terms of what you
Speaker 2: need to lure Lebron to your team. Lebron had so
Speaker 2: much access to fame and glitz and glamour, that's not
Speaker 2: what he was looking for. And he wasn't looking for
Speaker 2: a billion dollars. He was looking for rings championships. And
Speaker 2: so New York does this thing where they hire a
Speaker 2: filmmaker who doesn't know anything about basketball. He didn't know
Speaker 2: the difference between a basketball and a golf ball. And
Speaker 2: so he goes out and brings in Jonathan Hawk, who
Speaker 2: knows how to make a sports documentary, and they have
Speaker 2: all the celebrities in New York City lined up, from
Speaker 2: Harvey Weinstein to Reggie Jackson to Alec Baldwin, I mean,
Speaker 2: Robert de Niro, everybody wanted in this documentary. And they
Speaker 2: even got Donald Trump. They went up to Trump Tower
Speaker 2: and got Trump to sit for an interview. Anybody they
Speaker 2: interviewed is pitching lebron On White needs to come to
Speaker 2: New York. To me, the best part of that whole
Speaker 2: story and the smartest thing they did, was to go
Speaker 2: get Tony Soprano out of retirement and to bring him
Speaker 2: in to do a sketch at the end of the film,
Speaker 2: and it's basically Dandal Feini getting back in that role
Speaker 2: with Edie Falco. It was brilliant, and I told the
Speaker 2: story through.
Speaker 1: The lens of Jonathan Hawk, who shot the interview in
Speaker 1: Tony's apartment, and they pitch him and it's basically literally
Speaker 1: the offer you can't refuse. And Lebron thought it was
Speaker 1: funny because it was it was clever, it was funny,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't right. And then Riley comes in and
Speaker 1: Riley's last and Riley brings in a bag of rings
Speaker 1: and he puts him on the table and you know,
Speaker 1: Lebron asks him what's in there, and he dumps him
Speaker 1: out and there is championship rings that he's won everywhere,
Speaker 1: and it's what Lebron wants, and he has this really
Speaker 1: important line to keep the main thing the main thing.
Speaker 1: Lebron didn't know what that was in the moment, but
Speaker 1: Maverick knew what it was because he'd read Steve and
Speaker 1: Rcovey's book and certainly understood what Riley was saying. And
Speaker 1: the main thing in Miami with pat Riley is winning championships,
Speaker 1: and he knew that that was the main thing for Lebron.
Speaker 1: And I just thought, wow, like these two contrasts the
Speaker 1: Knicks in the heat. So the Miami story is four years,
Speaker 1: two championships. I think the arc of many of our lives.
Speaker 1: Is the hardships come before the titles or the runs. Right,
Speaker 1: We've all struggled in our life. Lebron struggles are the
Speaker 1: struggles of the greatest basketball player evert The decision dinged
Speaker 1: them a little bit. But Miami was Miami felt like
Speaker 1: it was going to work very quickly. You had the
Speaker 1: smart owner, pat Riley, a young, brilliant young coach. You
Speaker 1: had d Wade Haslam, the culture, and then he loses
Speaker 1: to the Mavericks and for the only time in his
Speaker 1: career looked afraid on the court. That was a real
Speaker 1: turning point for Lebron. Talk about that, it's a huge
Speaker 1: turning point. I would say, it's not really a disagreement
Speaker 1: with you. But I think the decision did more than
Speaker 1: Dingham because the ramification of the decision is he is
Speaker 1: the villain of American sports. His first year in Miami,
Speaker 1: he hated and anyone who was in Cleveland. I was
Speaker 1: not there the night that Lebron returned to Cleveland, but
Speaker 1: I interviewed people who were It was violent. I mean
Speaker 1: it was scary. People who were on that team said
Speaker 1: they were afraid. The security in the arena. People that
Speaker 1: were there to protect the Miami players. They had never
Speaker 1: seen or felt anything like that at an American sports event.
Speaker 1: That first year in Miami for Lebron, I think was
Speaker 1: different because Lebron likes to be liked and he was
Speaker 1: hated that year. And then on top of that, they
Speaker 1: were supposed to win and they didn't win, and I
Speaker 1: think that's what plunged Lebron into a dark period. The
Speaker 1: summer after losing to Dallas is the darkest period of
Speaker 1: Lebron's career for him personally, and it's really a moment
Speaker 1: of self discovery where he's locked away in Miami. He
Speaker 1: doesn't want to talk to anybody, not family, not friends.
Speaker 1: He's listening to certain kinds of music, and really when
Speaker 1: he comes out of that, it's interesting when he comes
Speaker 1: out of that. I just thought it was interesting that
Speaker 1: one of the first people he saw when he came
Speaker 1: out of that was Bono in Miami, who had come
Speaker 1: YouTube was there touring, and he had some private time
Speaker 1: with Bono backstage. I just thought it was interesting because
Speaker 1: I was thinking to myself as a writer, Bono's probably
Speaker 1: one of the only people on the planet who could
Speaker 1: actually say in that moment, I've been through more than you.
Speaker 1: I know what this is like, Like I've been in
Speaker 1: worse spots than you because I've been doing this longer
Speaker 1: and I'm a world around rockstar. And I'm sure he
Speaker 1: didn't say those things to Lebron, but there aren't many
Speaker 1: people Lebron can get in a room with who could
Speaker 1: actually say I've been to these places that you're in
Speaker 1: right now. And he comes out of that, and Dwayne
Speaker 1: Wade has a big part of him coming out of that,
Speaker 1: because that's when they have the conversation about this needs
Speaker 1: to be your team. It's sort of like it's okay
Speaker 1: to take over, you need to dominate. This is my
Speaker 1: city and my team in my town. But we're not
Speaker 1: going to win unless you take the reins and boy,
Speaker 1: the next season, Lebron's the scariest player in the NBA.
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone's afraid of him. You don't want to
Speaker 1: play this team and that guy, and I think the
Speaker 1: next three years to me, those are the scary Lebron hears.
Speaker 1: Let's go back to you talk about in the book.
Speaker 1: There's obviously great debate. Lebron now starts stacking up championships
Speaker 1: in Miami and the Michael Jordan. Stuff really starts to
Speaker 1: become a comp and nobody had really ever challenged Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1: It was just Russell.
Speaker 2: Early, then Kareem, then Magic. Then you know, you kind
Speaker 2: of got ten years to yourself as the greatest player ever.
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden after the second title, people
Speaker 2: start talking about, Wow, this guy is different. Yes, but
Speaker 2: in his early days in high school Jeff nobody talked
Speaker 2: about Michael Jordan. Their games were different, Their personalities are
Speaker 2: completely different. One is much more hyper aggressive, much more
Speaker 2: the score not necessary, not necessarily ever conciliatory or considered
Speaker 2: about your feelings. Lebron's comp was not my as you.
Speaker 1: Noted, Yeah it is, because it's interesting you reference that
Speaker 1: high school years. One of my favorite scenes in this well,
Speaker 1: I'm going to say two of them, because they're kind
Speaker 1: of coupled. It's Whenick Maverick goes back. He leaves college
Speaker 1: after one year, right realizes he's not going to play
Speaker 1: in the NBA, goes back to Akron to go to
Speaker 1: school and to work with Lebron and help Lebron and
Speaker 1: navigate those tenuous high school years coming up for him.
Speaker 4: Andy starts coaching his AAU.
Speaker 1: Team and they go to Chicago in the summer, and
Speaker 1: one of the guys from Jordan's Jim, who works with
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan trains with him, approaches Maverick and invites him
Speaker 1: and Lebron to come to Michael's Jim in Chicago, and
Speaker 1: they go. Michael's not there, but they go and they
Speaker 1: check it out, and it's like they've entered that sort
Speaker 1: of celestial space where Michael Jordan trains. It's a private
Speaker 1: place not anybody can go, and other NBA players who
Speaker 1: are active in the league go there to train and run.
Speaker 1: Remember Michael's retired right now, but they go there, and
Speaker 1: one of the things that Lebron gets to do is
Speaker 1: he gets to scrimmage run with these NBA players, guys
Speaker 1: like Antoine Walker, big time players, big bodies, playing with
Speaker 1: a teenager. And for the first time, the floor looks
Speaker 1: different to Lebron, it's a different floor. And that's why
Speaker 1: that chapter is called a different Floor. It's the same
Speaker 1: dimensions of the floor that he plays on at Saint VI's,
Speaker 1: except everything's different. The passing lanes are more narrow because
Speaker 1: the guys are so much bigger. Their arms are longer.
Speaker 1: When they put their arms out the routes to the
Speaker 1: basket just aren't there that he sees in high school games.
Speaker 1: It's all different for him. And that is a huge
Speaker 1: eye opening experience for him. And one thing happens. He
Speaker 1: can't guard anybody in those scrimmages. They're too good, they're
Speaker 1: too fast, the too big. He can't guard them. But
Speaker 1: he can score against these guys, which is phenomenal. He
Speaker 1: can score buckets with some of the best NBA players
Speaker 1: and he's only in high school. That's really important. And
Speaker 1: then here's the second part. Later they go back there
Speaker 1: and they're there and they're about to leave, and they
Speaker 1: go outside and Marten pulls up in a red sports car.
Speaker 4: And gets out.
Speaker 1: Now at this moment, Michael knows he's coming out of retirement,
Speaker 1: but nobody else knows that. He hasn't announced it yet,
Speaker 1: And so he gets out. The coolest athlete in the
Speaker 1: world gets out of the car and approaches Lebron. He
Speaker 1: knows who Lebron is, and Lebron certainly sees who he is.
Speaker 1: This is his idol, this is the guy whose posters
Speaker 1: are on his bedroom walls. It's the guy whose number
Speaker 1: he wears. And now they're in a conversation, and Michael
Speaker 1: invites him back inside and they talk and Michael doesn't
Speaker 1: give him advice, because Michael's not that kind of guy.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't matter. It's what he did give him
Speaker 1: was he gave him his cell phone number, which to
Speaker 1: me is a lot more important than advice because of
Speaker 1: what it says to Lebron. Michael doesn't give his phone
Speaker 1: number out to anybody. Lebron's now one of the few
Speaker 1: people in America who has Michael Jordan's cell phone. And
Speaker 1: when he leaves Chicago that night, by the way, Colin,
Speaker 1: the next day is the first day of school at
Speaker 1: Saint fee, Maverick's got to race him home because he's
Speaker 1: got to be in school the next day, and in
Speaker 1: his pocket he's got Michael Jordan's phone number. And he
Speaker 1: wrote in his journal about that and about how cool
Speaker 1: that experience was. And to me, what did Michael think
Speaker 1: of Lebron in that moment? Did he really think that
Speaker 1: Lebron was actually going to threaten him as the potential
Speaker 1: greatest player of all time time? I don't know, Probably not,
Speaker 1: because he was still a kid and he was very
Speaker 1: encouraging to him at that moment. But Obviously, as time
Speaker 1: goes on, and it doesn't take long. By the time
Speaker 1: you get to Game five against Detroit, you know, like
Speaker 1: this guy is actually that guy, like he is the future.
Speaker 1: He is that good and there isn't anyone else like him.
Speaker 1: And so I just think that Michael Jordan origin stories
Speaker 1: with Lebron, they're real, and there's some of the most
Speaker 1: interesting parts of Lebron's story.
Speaker 5: I'm really intrigued with this Memphis matchup. It makes a
Speaker 5: lot of sense for the Lakers on a couple of
Speaker 5: different levels. The Memphis Grizzlies are a team that play
Speaker 5: a lot of guys that typically don't shoot very well, right,
Speaker 5: John Murray, you can go underneath screens. Dylan Brooks has
Speaker 5: been shooting well for a couple of weeks, but he's
Speaker 5: a guy that I guarantee you Darvin Ham's gonna dare
Speaker 5: to shoot. And then obviously in the front court with
Speaker 5: Steven Adams out, with Brandon Clark gout, yeah, looking at
Speaker 5: Xavier Tillman or Jaron Jackson there, Darvin Ham loves to
Speaker 5: dare people to shoot, and I think this is a
Speaker 5: series that actually bodes well for the Lakers there. And
Speaker 5: then on the other end of the floor. Who is
Speaker 5: the best surgical matchup hunting player and probably the history
Speaker 5: of the NBA, Lebron James. And so he's gonna be
Speaker 5: calling up John Morant to every single conceivable action. He's
Speaker 5: gonna be get doing everything in his power to get
Speaker 5: Dylan Brooks off of him or to get Anthony Davis
Speaker 5: into favorable matchups. And obviously there's a long road ahead.
Speaker 5: If they win, I think they're gonna face the Warriors
Speaker 5: in round two. If they win that, there's a very
Speaker 5: good chance they're gonna play Phoenix in round three. If
Speaker 5: they win that, there's a very good chance you're gonna
Speaker 5: get Boston or Milwaukee at the end of that. So
Speaker 5: it's a very long road. It's a lot to put
Speaker 5: on Lebron James and Anthony Davis physically.
Speaker 4: But here's the deal.
Speaker 5: You made it to the playoffs, ish, and you're probably
Speaker 5: gonna be a slight favorite in round one. I'd call
Speaker 5: that a resounding victory compared to where we were before
Speaker 5: the deadline.
Speaker 2: Well, the other thing is Memphis isn't Cleveland young or
Speaker 2: ok C or Houston young. But Steven Adams is one
Speaker 2: of the few guys with some playoff experience, and he's out.
Speaker 2: So Memphis is fairly young, and I always felt this
Speaker 2: year that you know, they're one of those teams built
Speaker 2: for the regular season because they play hard and they
Speaker 2: have depth, and you can win a lot of games
Speaker 2: in this league off playing hard and having ten guys
Speaker 2: that doesn't matter nearly as much. So now they get
Speaker 2: smaller without Steven Adams plays right into Anthony Davis's hands,
Speaker 2: and he's had the best two week stretch arguably since
Speaker 2: he's been a Laker. If you take out the bubble,
Speaker 2: he's been completely dominating.
Speaker 4: Again.
Speaker 2: He didn't play particularly well today in terms of total points,
Speaker 2: but down the stretch he had a couple of key baskets.
Speaker 2: So I think you get a Memphis team that's smaller,
Speaker 2: had injuries, young, and let's be honest, the job Morant
Speaker 2: stuff still not great. So I if you say to me, Okay,
Speaker 2: there's a team in the playoffs that could be a
Speaker 2: little volatile of all of them, and I'd be like
Speaker 2: Clippers because of Kawhi, you never know if he's going
Speaker 2: to play Westbrook. They had a fight on their bench,
Speaker 2: So like Clippers feel very vaulatle to me and I
Speaker 2: think Memphis as a young one of the younger playoff teams.
Speaker 2: Cleveland in the East is very young, but Cleveland doesn't
Speaker 2: feel immature. Everybody in Cleveland knows exactly what they are
Speaker 2: and what they do. Donovan Mitchell has already clarified their offense.
Speaker 2: He takes the last big shot and everybody knows it.
Speaker 2: Mobley's you're big, he's your young guy, but he knows
Speaker 2: laden games. They all step aside for Donovan Mitchell. Memphis
Speaker 2: has some egos, they're chatty. I think the Lakers win
Speaker 2: that series.
Speaker 4: I really do it.
Speaker 2: I think Anthony Davis is going to have a fantastic
Speaker 2: series Without Steven Adams.
Speaker 5: Memphis is very dangerous because they have guys that are
Speaker 5: capable of knocking down shots. Like here's the think of
Speaker 5: John Muran. Like we learned from last year's playoffs, Like
Speaker 5: Desmond Bane really good, interesting player, excellent shooter, good defensive player,
Speaker 5: can do some slashing, but he really struggled to beat
Speaker 5: people off the dribble last year in the playoffs. That's
Speaker 5: a concern. The playoffs in general will take your weakness
Speaker 5: and shine the biggest magnifying glass. Yeah, that's what the
Speaker 5: playoffs do the same thing with John Moran. It's hey, yeah,
Speaker 5: you knock down pull up threes at thirty percent this year,
Speaker 5: that's great. We are going to dare you to take
Speaker 5: that this year to the point where we're going to
Speaker 5: actually try to get into your head by making you
Speaker 5: think you can't do it. That's the way that these
Speaker 5: these especially these veteran playoff teams try to attack you
Speaker 5: and make you feel uncomfortable, make you lack confidence, and
Speaker 5: at the end of the day, like it all comes
Speaker 5: down to the physical side of things, like Lebron James
Speaker 5: has to hold up, Anthony Davis has to hold up.
Speaker 5: But over the course of a playoff series, the team
Speaker 5: that wins is usually the team that generates higher quality
Speaker 5: shots in the half court. Who do you trust more
Speaker 5: to get stops in the half court for seven games
Speaker 5: Lebron James, Anthony Davis, Jared Vanderbilt, Austin Reeves or you know,
Speaker 5: John Moraet, Desmond Bayn, Dylan Brooks and Jared Jackson. And
Speaker 5: then on the flip side of that, when Memphis has
Speaker 5: to score against them, I just think I just think
Speaker 5: the Lakers are going to get better quality shots over
Speaker 5: the course of the series wouldn't be surprised if Memphis
Speaker 5: jumped up to a one zero lead or a two
Speaker 5: to one lead. But I think as the series progresses,
Speaker 5: the older, more talented team in the Lakers is in
Speaker 5: the best shape. I want to say this though I
Speaker 5: am a big believer in what Golden State does, but yes,
Speaker 5: Andrew Wiggins is back. However, he's a rhythm player who
Speaker 5: has not played really intense competitive basketball for a while.
Speaker 5: Had they fallen to seven and drawn that Memphis matchup,
Speaker 5: I think Memphis would have beat them. That's how much
Speaker 5: I view the importance of getting Andrew Wiggins up to speed.
Speaker 5: So it is so critically important that they get this
Speaker 5: series against Zacremento, a team who's very good and very
Speaker 5: offensively skilled, as an excellent home court advantage. But they
Speaker 5: are not the biggest and most athletic team in the world,
Speaker 5: so Golden State, in their lack of athleticism, will have
Speaker 5: less of a factor to play in that particular series.
Speaker 5: And I don't know if you notice, but Golden State's
Speaker 5: actually a minus two hundred favorite to win that series.
Speaker 5: That's a pretty significant favorite. If they get out of
Speaker 5: that series, that buys you from now three additional weeks
Speaker 5: to get Andrew Wiggins up to speed for a potential
Speaker 5: matchup with Memphis or LA, two massive teams that are
Speaker 5: incredibly athletic and big, and at that point I feel
Speaker 5: better about well.
Speaker 2: And Gary Payton just the other night got extended minutes.
Speaker 2: So now Gary Peyton, you can put him on for
Speaker 2: a good at sixteen minutes a night. Just put him
Speaker 2: on Daron Fox and then put Klay Thompson, Dante de Vincenzo.
Speaker 2: We've talked about this Golden State's absurdly deep in the
Speaker 2: back court and very thin in the front court. But
Speaker 2: Dearon Fox is their fourth court guy. I think he's
Speaker 2: the best guard in the NBA and the fourth quarter
Speaker 2: this year in terms of what they call crucial points.
Speaker 2: So you know, I saw the other night Peyton played
Speaker 2: like eighteen twenty minutes, and I'm like, that's exactly what
Speaker 2: they wanted. So Wiggins isn't ready to go at that level.
Speaker 2: And they'll have to massage that a little because Cominga's
Speaker 2: finally now playing real minutes and they're gonna take them away.
Speaker 2: So that's a weird, you know, confluence of events where
Speaker 2: it's like we need Wiggins desperately, but you know, Kuminga's
Speaker 2: actually started to put log in eighteen twenty twenty four
Speaker 2: minutes and been productive. So now you got to peel
Speaker 2: him back, so you got to massage that in the
Speaker 2: locker room. And the chemistry has been weird with the
Speaker 2: Warriors this year since the Draymond Jordan Poole inflammation. But
Speaker 2: I like their matchup in the series. He throw a
Speaker 2: lot of bodies at Fox. You know, Golden State will
Speaker 2: have to win a road game, but this is almost
Speaker 2: you know, it's a bus ride, and I also think
Speaker 2: this they'll get the whistle. They know how to manipulate officials.
Speaker 2: They know how to do the psychological manipulation. I mean,
Speaker 2: Sacramento is like the little brother down the road to
Speaker 2: the Dynasty, and you can see in spots them being
Speaker 2: a little overwhelmed and the Warriors, you know, trash talking,
Speaker 2: getting in their head and getting the favorable whistle the
Speaker 2: Dynasty does in the first round. My entire life, I
Speaker 2: don't think the league is rigged, but I do think
Speaker 2: veteran teams manipulate officiating in the playoffs, where referees tend
Speaker 2: to swallow the whistle. You're not going to get that
Speaker 2: high octane offense that draws all those fouls. The Warriors
Speaker 2: can slow it down, speed it up, they'll get the whistle.
Speaker 2: So I think it's one of these series. It's a
Speaker 2: really good series for Golden State. There were some real
Speaker 2: worrisome matchups. Even the Lakers size could be a huge problem.
Speaker 2: I think they locked down well. Again, the Warriors can
Speaker 2: beat somebody with size. They just need Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 5: Like when I say I would have picked Memphis to
Speaker 5: win in the first round, that's one hundred percent and
Speaker 5: Andrew Wiggins take like that. It's all associated with the
Speaker 5: fact that he is so imperative to their athletic ceiling
Speaker 5: that they need to compete in a series against that team,
Speaker 5: giving them an extra three weeks from now to get there.
Speaker 5: That's vitally important. The Sacramento this is a Gary Payton
Speaker 5: series in my opinion, and the main reason why is
Speaker 5: because Sacramento has killed teams all season, along with the
Speaker 5: simple combination of deeron Fox and demand of Sabonis and
Speaker 5: what they do with their dribble handoffs, and the problem
Speaker 5: it presents for teams because you let deeron Fox get
Speaker 5: downhill or if you switch it. Sabonis is one of
Speaker 5: the best players in the league at beating switches to
Speaker 5: the basket, and if he draws double teams, he's an
Speaker 5: excellent passer. So what I like about the Golden State
Speaker 5: matchup in that series is Draymond Green and Gary Payton.
Speaker 5: Couldn't I couldn't conceive possibly mentally a better duo to
Speaker 5: potentially handle those two guys. And this is again, what
Speaker 5: an attribute, And this is why I actually love this
Speaker 5: move from the deadline. What an incredible attribute to have
Speaker 5: as a coach, a weapon in your pocket to be
Speaker 5: able to deploy Gary Payton on the other team's best
Speaker 5: guard and to know he's gonna be able to hold
Speaker 5: that in check. I don't know if you noticed this
Speaker 5: the other night, but the Warriors won the game against
Speaker 5: Oklahoma City, a tough fought game against Oklahoma City. You
Speaker 5: might have been scammed, but it was a tough fought
Speaker 5: game against Oklahoma City, and in the fourth quarter of
Speaker 5: that game, Gary Payton shut down shake Yield is Alexander
Speaker 5: who's one of the best guards in this league. He
Speaker 5: had a couple of buckets on switches and he drew
Speaker 5: one foul, but for the most part, Gary Payton shut
Speaker 5: him down and it was how Golden State pulled out
Speaker 5: that game. He is one of the best guards in
Speaker 5: the league to guard this specific type of matchup, partnering
Speaker 5: that with Draymond Green. I love this matchup for the Warriors.
Speaker 5: I would pick them to win in no more than
Speaker 5: six games, but I'm leaning towards five. And for all
Speaker 5: the Hoops Tonight listeners out there, We're going to do
Speaker 5: a full breakdown of this series within the next couple
Speaker 5: of days where we'll really dive into the x's and o's,
Speaker 5: But I'm leaning towards picking the Warriors in five or six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I would take the Warriors in six
Speaker 2: suns four against the Clippers five. This again really plays
Speaker 2: in the Phoenix's hand. So you know, Kevin Durant's gotten
Speaker 2: several games off, so they're sitting him, and here you
Speaker 2: have an inflamed bench situation where plumb Lee gets into
Speaker 2: a fight. You're already asking Tylou, like, what do you
Speaker 2: do with Westbrook? Now he's great in regular season production, Okay,
Speaker 2: now we get into situational basketball.
Speaker 4: What do I do?
Speaker 2: Paul George isn't available. He would be huge in this series.
Speaker 2: To defend Kevin Durant. So now I've got a little
Speaker 2: bit of inflammation. How do I use Westbrook, who's not
Speaker 2: been a great postseason player? What do I do with
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant matchup like Memphis, There's some depth here, but
Speaker 2: there's a lot to me. This could not in a
Speaker 2: weird way Kevin Durant. Between getting hurt in warm ups
Speaker 2: and now resting for the last couple of games, You're
Speaker 2: getting the most rested, healthiest Kevin Durant in like years.
Speaker 2: And I think Phoenix is going to be a handful
Speaker 2: for the Clippers. I love Phoenix here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I'm really low on the Clippers in general, Colin.
Speaker 5: I don't know how many times we have to go
Speaker 5: into the season with everybody like preaching that they're one
Speaker 5: of the favorites for them to not fulfill that, for
Speaker 5: us to finally learn our lessons. They don't have good
Speaker 5: rim protection, they don't have good playmaking, and that makes
Speaker 5: that's two vitally important things that you have to have
Speaker 5: to succeed in the playoffs. You know, this is this
Speaker 5: is what the Clippers are. They are a team with
Speaker 5: a bunch of wings that are wings in name only
Speaker 5: that don't move as well as they used to.
Speaker 4: Right, I got a lot of guys.
Speaker 5: Like Marcus Morris and Nick Batoum and Ry Covington, guys
Speaker 5: that once upon a time would have been vital, important
Speaker 5: playoff pieces, but they're just not that anymore. And Covington's
Speaker 5: out of the rotation. Marcus Morris has been hurt, but
Speaker 5: Toom's okay, you know, but every the problem is they
Speaker 5: without Paul George, they simply do not have enough shot creation. Right,
Speaker 5: There's three guys on the team that can create their
Speaker 5: own shot Kawhi Leonard, Russell Westbrook and Norman Powell. And
Speaker 5: Norman Powell's runs hot and cold. I mean, obviously he
Speaker 5: destroyed the Lakers the other day, but he runs hot
Speaker 5: and cold. Russell Westbrook, the game has to be going
Speaker 5: a very specific type of way for him to have impact.
Speaker 5: And as good as Kawhi Leonard is and he's made
Speaker 5: strides as a playmaker, he's a pull up shot maker.
Speaker 5: Like he doesn't pressure the rims super well, and he's
Speaker 5: not the best passer in the world. So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 5: he'll get you his thirty by knocking down his pull
Speaker 5: up jump shots. But He's not a guy that can
Speaker 5: really carry an offense over the course of a game.
Speaker 5: And so what they really are is a team that
Speaker 5: doesn't have a lot of shot creation. They're a good team,
Speaker 5: but I don't think they have nearly the playoff ceiling
Speaker 5: they need Without Paul George, I think I think the
Speaker 5: Suns are going to make quick work of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and also the Sons are a team between Durant's
Speaker 2: health and Chris Paul's age. He had a great game
Speaker 2: about a week ago, but like he kind of just
Speaker 2: gave you, hey, I'm not done yet. I'm fine, I'm
Speaker 2: good here. But they got a huge break because that's
Speaker 2: a team Boston. I feel a little bit with Tatum
Speaker 2: sometimes in Robert William's health and Marcus Smart, like they
Speaker 2: don't need to play together. Like we know the Celtics
Speaker 2: are fine, They've been playing together now for years. They
Speaker 2: need time off, you know, Tatum needs rest. I feel
Speaker 2: that way with Phoenix, like Chris Paul and Durant, what
Speaker 2: they need is like five days off those legs going
Speaker 2: into a playoff series. So I'm with you. Phoenix hasn't
Speaker 2: lost yet with Durant on the floor. I mean it's
Speaker 2: and it looks really good. You know, that's because Kevin's
Speaker 2: a high functioning player and Chris Paul is one of
Speaker 2: the smartest guys in the league. And that's where I
Speaker 2: think sometimes with Ayton they've been frustrated. Moni's been frustrated,
Speaker 2: Chris has he I think sometimes Chris Paul's really demanding
Speaker 2: on his bigs, like he's really hard on them, and
Speaker 2: so like everywhere he goes, the team gets better and
Speaker 2: the big doesn't like him. But I think Kevin Durant'
Speaker 2: a unique I wouldn't call him a big, but a
Speaker 2: unique four that plays at such a high level of basketball,
Speaker 2: like really gets the game. I just think him and
Speaker 2: Chris are going to be magic. And I don't think
Speaker 2: any I really don't. You know, we'll see With Denver,
Speaker 2: Denver still, believe it or not. Despite they've been good
Speaker 2: for several years, they're still a pretty young team. They
Speaker 2: don't have a lot of playoff success. So I think
Speaker 2: Phoenix is going to role. What did you make of
Speaker 2: the Dallas punting those last two games of the season.
Speaker 4: I think I was.
Speaker 2: Reading some Dallas media reports it's a it's as show,
Speaker 2: it's a mess. Well, you know, they hired a guy
Speaker 2: from Nike who's never been really a GM, but he
Speaker 2: was in the basketball division. Very smart guy, a relationship guy,
Speaker 2: and now they put him in charge of running you know,
Speaker 2: basketball ops. And you know, I like Mark Cuban. I
Speaker 2: think he's really smart. He tends to be what I
Speaker 2: would call a tech optimist. He has so much confidence
Speaker 2: in his intelligence that he takes big swings and he
Speaker 2: hits you know, his pharmaceutical companies brilliant. I understood. I
Speaker 2: mean it was funny when they went and got Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 2: I applauded it. I said, I like the swing. This
Speaker 2: is going to be an atrocious defensive team. These are
Speaker 2: two of the worst. I mean, Kyrie is an abysmal
Speaker 2: defensive player. And so when people kind of embrace this
Speaker 2: as a championship team, I'm like, guys, the Warriors and
Speaker 2: Celtics were the two best defensive teams in the league. Like,
Speaker 2: you can't win that way. You can't just score your way.
Speaker 2: You can't you can't have to score one twenty six
Speaker 2: a night. It just doesn't work that way in this sport.
Speaker 2: And I think people think it's that. And then then
Speaker 2: if you've ever had a buddy who goes and plays
Speaker 2: in the NBA. It's like, man, they grind you. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of contact in this league. In the playoffs,
Speaker 2: they doubles down on it. That's why you know Kyrie
Speaker 2: pre impost Lebron, he gets pushed around. It was Lebron
Speaker 2: was a little bit of a bodyguard, and you have
Speaker 2: to surround Kyrie with certain elements. I also think increasingly
Speaker 2: Luca is a moody player, and he's going to be
Speaker 2: really hard to find the Robin. You know, we talked
Speaker 2: about this. The hardest thing in basketball is to find
Speaker 2: the janis that once in a franchise player. So the
Speaker 2: Bucks have done it twice, Luel Cinder and Yannis. They
Speaker 2: got a championship one back in nineteen seventy one right Milwaukee,
Speaker 2: and they got one with the Honis. It's not a
Speaker 2: great free agent hub, so you have to kind of
Speaker 2: build a culture and then eventually Kareem I want out,
Speaker 2: I want to go West. He did, and so I
Speaker 2: think when Luca came into the league there was this
Speaker 2: sense is he could pair him with a lot so
Speaker 2: they try the slash heir porzingis. They don't like each
Speaker 2: other and then they tried Jalen Brunson and they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: they don't really fit. Well, Jalen's been like an MVP
Speaker 2: guard play in New York. Well let's try Kyrie. Well,
Speaker 2: now Kyrie doesn't perfectly work for him. We're falling in
Speaker 2: love with this great hyper offensive player Moody, difficult needs ball,
Speaker 2: won't defend. You know, is he gonna end up Carmelo
Speaker 2: Anthony where he has this early success in Denver and
Speaker 2: never really then galvanizes people. I mean you start looking
Speaker 2: at the great players of all time. Everybody needed a
Speaker 2: running mate, Like Magic galvanized people. Lebron galvanized people. Michael didn't,
Speaker 2: but he found a running mate, right Like some guys
Speaker 2: don't do that, but they find a guy. Tim Duncan
Speaker 2: finds his Tony Parker, Steph finds his clay Like. It's
Speaker 2: way harder to find a two because it's not just
Speaker 2: the player, it's the temperament. McHale was the college You
Speaker 2: wouldn't remember this because you're young. He led the nation
Speaker 2: in rebounding. He was known as a defensive guy that
Speaker 2: rebounded at Minnesota, and he came to the NBA with
Speaker 2: all these weird moves and he was super long. Kind
Speaker 2: of an unorthodox looking scorer, but he was a great rebounder,
Speaker 2: a shot blocker in college and byrd was a score. Well,
Speaker 2: Michae could have scored more, but he's like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 2: going to be part of this bosh in Miami. I
Speaker 2: want to be part of this Kevin Love and Cleveland Lebron,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be part of it. Like Luca's gonna
Speaker 2: make you feel small. He's not gonna help you on
Speaker 2: the defensive end. He's not gonna you're gonna get the
Speaker 2: ball late in the shot clock with him. I think
Speaker 2: lucas harder to play with than people think. And I
Speaker 2: you say, well, Michael was difficult, but Michael got the
Speaker 2: right coach, also found a very willing Robin, and then
Speaker 2: he had high functioning players. Kurran Packson became gms like
Speaker 2: they knew how to play with Michael. They understood Michael
Speaker 2: was the guy those Bowl teams had really high. Bj
Speaker 2: Armstrong becomes a power agent, like you had a lot
Speaker 2: of guys around Michael that knew how to play the
Speaker 2: game and appeal to his senses and his alpha. That's
Speaker 2: hard like that that Lucas gonna be hard to play with,
Speaker 2: and I think we have to come to terms with it.
Speaker 5: He's entering a very important phase of his basketball development
Speaker 5: because he's starting to just slightly plateau a little bit.
Speaker 5: And you know, I love the way you broke it down,
Speaker 5: Like you have to be willing to buy into this
Speaker 5: like larger concept of the team because for instance, like
Speaker 5: you can break it down on a simple math level. Okay, Luca,
Speaker 5: high pick and roll is worth you know, one point
Speaker 5: two points per possession. Therefore, if we run it one
Speaker 5: hundred times in a game, we're going to score one
Speaker 5: hundred and twenty points. That's great, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: But there is a basketball team is a living organism
Speaker 5: and all the pieces fit together, and like it would
Speaker 5: behove Luca to start to learn how to adjust his
Speaker 5: game to fit better with others because of the specific
Speaker 5: fact that he will be on more talented teams as
Speaker 5: time go along. This has worked. He went to the
Speaker 5: Western Conference finals last year. I'm not trying to criticize
Speaker 5: him overall in terms of what he's capable of, but
Speaker 5: the reality is is like, hey, if you you know,
Speaker 5: give the ball to Kyrie and maybe instead of running
Speaker 5: a hi I pick and roll where you dribble the
Speaker 5: air out of the basketball for seventeen seconds. Maybe you
Speaker 5: run down the floor and come off of a wide
Speaker 5: screen and use that as a dribble handoff and get downhill.
Speaker 5: You can use your same skill set, that same vision,
Speaker 5: that same size and strength and shot making ability more
Speaker 5: within the flow of what a team can do as
Speaker 5: a unit together, and then embracing getting in shape to
Speaker 5: be able to be a more of an impact player defensively.
Speaker 5: I think, look, here's the thing, the pouting. I absolutely
Speaker 5: believe that has a negative effect on the psyche of
Speaker 5: a basketball team when they see their star constantly bitching
Speaker 5: and moaning at the refs and when he's constantly not
Speaker 5: running back on defense and you can tell his head
Speaker 5: is not in it. I again, I loved how you
Speaker 5: brought up Carmelo Anthony because that's such an interesting comp.
Speaker 2: I mean, they're christ different positions, but in everybody said
Speaker 2: they love Carmelo. Man, he gave you it was about
Speaker 2: Carmelo getting his shot. He wouldn't even adjust to a
Speaker 2: three point shot like it was bizarrely rigid in his
Speaker 2: style of play.
Speaker 5: One hundred percent like they're not the same player obviously,
Speaker 5: It's more just relative to the rest of the league
Speaker 5: and the way his progression went, Like like Lebron was
Speaker 5: a little bit better than Carmelo, and over the years,
Speaker 5: Lebron kept getting better and Mellow just kind of stayed
Speaker 5: the same. I mean, you got moderately better in some
Speaker 5: areas of his offensive skill set, but he never became
Speaker 5: an impact defensive player. He never became a top tier playmaker.
Speaker 5: He never evolved in those other areas of his game.
Speaker 2: And was and was threatened by yes, yes, And I
Speaker 2: think Luca at times feels a little threatened. First of all,
Speaker 2: he's from outside of the country, so players like that,
Speaker 2: I mean, you have to ingratiate yourself to a new
Speaker 2: culture and a new country. That's really difficult. The other thing,
Speaker 2: Jason is if you'll get Dirk Novinsky and Dallas probably
Speaker 2: as beloved a player as the league's had. Everybody loved Dirk,
Speaker 2: not everybody loves Luca. He's got a much more temperamental,
Speaker 2: moody personality, so he's naturally gonna create some disharmony in
Speaker 2: the room. He's just a moody guy. Dirk wasn't, so
Speaker 2: the Mavericks multiple times switched pieces with Dirk. Almost you know,
Speaker 2: almost everything worked with Dirk. It just didn't get a championship,
Speaker 2: but like he didn't have there was no like clashes
Speaker 2: of culture. Everybody liked Dirk, nobody likes Luca. Like it's
Speaker 2: a big difference. I think Luca is a better player.
Speaker 2: But at this point, somebody said this years ago to me,
Speaker 2: They're like, in football, halftime, defense goes to the right,
Speaker 2: offense goes to the left. In baseball, a third of
Speaker 2: the teams in the bullpen, it's thirteen dudes on the
Speaker 2: bench every practice on that plane, Like if one guy's
Speaker 2: music's too loud on the plane. Now you have headphones now,
Speaker 2: but you know years ago it's like one guy can
Speaker 2: ruin an NBA locker room, and if the star is difficult,
Speaker 2: it's a bad locker room. I think the maps are
Speaker 2: a bit of an s show right now. And I
Speaker 2: think Luca, I mean again, they're gonna they're gonna put
Speaker 2: the pr people to work in Dallas. It's all good.
Speaker 2: Luca is gonna love it. But when you watch him play,
Speaker 2: he aggravates me at times with his barking to the officials,
Speaker 2: Like on every play.
Speaker 5: It's such a love hate relationship for me because as
Speaker 5: a basketball fan, there's so many things with Luca that
Speaker 5: I'm drawn to. Like I he is one of the
Speaker 5: best players that I've ever seen in terms of getting
Speaker 5: beating people off the dribble without an athletic advantage, which
Speaker 5: is so hard to do. It's like it's kind of
Speaker 5: the Austin Reeves thing, like it's all it's all misdirection,
Speaker 5: and and like having every move a revocably attached to
Speaker 5: a counter move that's equally as effective, and in never
Speaker 5: telegraphing your moves. And like Luca, there's so many things
Speaker 5: that I love about his game and I hate watching
Speaker 5: him because of his approach. Not only would the heliocentric
Speaker 5: you know, just dribble the air the basketball every time,
Speaker 5: but also with the attitude stuff.
Speaker 4: And again it's a crossroads.
Speaker 5: He's either going to be the Carmelo of this era
Speaker 5: or he's going to be an all time great. And
Speaker 5: you know what, you know, what's interesting is if you
Speaker 5: would ask everybody two years ago, you know, or all
Speaker 5: of you just say last year during the Western Conference Finals,
Speaker 5: who are the two best players you know that you'd
Speaker 5: want for the next ten years, it'd be Jiannis and
Speaker 5: Luca and he'd be pretty close, right Like, they'd be
Speaker 5: neck and neck with a slight edge to Giannis. I
Speaker 5: hope it doesn't end up being one of those situations
Speaker 5: where Yannis just dramatically decorates himself because Luca Plateau's that's
Speaker 5: a problem potential.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, Lebron was more physically gifted than Carmelo,
Speaker 2: but as they drifted apart, a lot of it was
Speaker 2: Lebron got along with more players, could play with more players,
Speaker 2: was more amenable to different styles. I mean, Miami had
Speaker 2: no size. He and Wade were duplication. He never liked
Speaker 2: Mario Chalmers. I mean it was like they threw him
Speaker 2: with Ray Allen's and Shane Battier's and Mike Miller's and
Speaker 2: Lebron made it work. At the time, Spot was a
Speaker 2: kid coach and Lebron made it work. And then he
Speaker 2: goes to Cleveland again and he makes it work, and
Speaker 2: he goes to Los Angeles and he makes it work.
Speaker 2: If you give Lebron, I mean, Jr. Smith was fun,
Speaker 2: but I think people forget he and Lebron were pretty
Speaker 2: good together, and Jr. Smith was weird and you know,
Speaker 2: a little eccentric and some viewed as difficult, kind of
Speaker 2: an iso act, you know, super talented. Lebron made it work.
Speaker 2: Lebron and him were close, despite that one time out
Speaker 2: right that they called so And I think Jannis sort
Speaker 2: of is amenable to a lot of different teammates and players.
Speaker 2: Luca so far isn't like I mean, look at they
Speaker 2: just bring in Jay Crowder and then Joe Ingles and
Speaker 2: Drew Holliday and Chris Middleton was like they stole him.
Speaker 2: I think from like Detroit, He's worked with all of them.
Speaker 2: He works with everybody, and Brook Lopez another big He's
Speaker 2: not threatened at all, Like it matters a lot, and
Speaker 2: it's just like I always felt Carmelo was threatened. Luca
Speaker 2: feels a little threatened. Jannis never does. Lebron never has.
Speaker 2: I mean, God, he goes into Miami, it's d Wade City.
Speaker 4: And it's like, all right, let's go for it.
Speaker 2: I mean he could have picked anywhere to go, right,
Speaker 2: he goes to the probably the single most beloved player
Speaker 2: in any city. I'll go to your city. I mean
Speaker 2: that was rife with issues. Could you have seen Carmelo
Speaker 2: going down there and making it work, his insecurities would
Speaker 2: have just flourished. So I yeah, I'm not I'm not
Speaker 2: anti Luca, but it's just like we've got to have
Speaker 2: I think we're moving to the second phase, which is okay.
Speaker 2: Not all these issues are Carmelo Anthony's teammates. Summer Carmelo.
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