WEBVTT - The Raymond Allen Davis Incident 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.080 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.119 learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:13.880 production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.440 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:29.479 my name is Noel. 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:34.360 They call me Ben. We're joined with our guest super producer, 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:39.080 none other than Gnomes Griffin. Most importantly, you are you. 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:43.080 You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:47.960 want you to know, and we hope this exploration finds 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:53.000 you well. If you are in your own global neck 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:57.960 of the woods, or if you consider yourself a tourist abroad, 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.800 We've got a real way for you tonight, folks, real 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.440 weird one. At least it's a real one for the 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.759 real ones out there. There we go. Yeah, that's nice, Noel. 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:15.200 You're a bit of a tourist right now? How dare you? Yeah? 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:16.800 I suppose you could say that, Yeah, I am on 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:18.800 a trip to New York City, But don't I don't 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:20.399 hang here like a tourist, or I'd like to think 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:20.959 so at least. 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.080 Yeah, you're a local now at this point, right, you 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.680 know where to go, how to step? You got your 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.040 supreme hat. You're looking good, you're looking. 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:29.800 To I try to step right. 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:36.520 Yeah, So we all remember our earlier series on a 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:43.800 concept that mystified us unanimously, diplomatic immunity. Part of that 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.240 goes back to the idea that you might be walking 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:51.520 around anywhere in these United States where we often record 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:55.440 the show, and you say, I got a parking ticket. 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.200 I have to pay a parking ticket. How do how 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:03.080 do these swells and these posh folks never have to 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:09.359 pay parking tickets. We got into this concept of diplomatic community, 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:13.960 which became a two part series, right, like a two 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:20.760 chapter episode. How would we explain diplomatic immunity get out 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:22.639 of jail free card? Right? 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:28.600 Essentially, Well, it's a very specialized position that someone who 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:33.240 is working for a different country operating in your country 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.280 wherever you are, they can have they can have these 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.960 these special rules that apply to them, where all of 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.639 the rules in that country where they're operating don't necessarily 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:50.440 apply to them because they're special, and they can take 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:52.360 things in and out of a country as long as 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:54.880 they put it in the right pouch or the right bag, 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.120 or it has the right numbers on it, which is 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:02.280 really fun and special, and we got into it even 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.240 further when we did I think we did a third one, 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.200 right Ben on what do we call it? 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:08.520 Shadow diplomacy? 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.040 Shadow diplomacy? That sounds nice. 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.560 That's a great setup. Oh my gosh. Yeah, and thank 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:23.520 you to everyone who reached out, including multiple tourism boards, 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:28.760 in response to our episodes on diplomatic immunity. And as 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:33.720 you said, Matt, shadow diplomacy, it's an ancient sort of 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:39.400 patch together series of gentlemen's agreements or traditions, and they 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.720 still play a role in the modern world. While we 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:49.400 were delving into this, we alluded to numerous instances where 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:54.640 some people will say diplomacy went wrong. So with that tonight, 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:59.880 we are exploring a specific case of a man that 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:05.480 may be known to sell. This guy is named Raymond 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:10.080 Alan Davis. So let's pause for a word from our sponsors, 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:15.040 and then let's introduce him. Everybody loves Raymond, except for 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:16.680 you know, Pakistan. 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:18.919 Yeah, and many neighboring countries. 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.919 Well right, right, right, all right, we're doing the break. 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:35.599 Here are the facts. Everybody loves Raymond, right except for 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:41.920 the countries that Matt mentioned just a second ago. Can 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.919 we learn a little bit more about Raymond Davis. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.720 We sure can so. First thing, Raymond Davis was not 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:54.239 born wealthy, unlike the oss Hires of the Golden Age. 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:55.280 He was not an. 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.839 Elite East Coast blue blood type of fellow. Instead, he 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:03.120 grew up in big Stone Gap, Virginia, which, in his words, 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.000 was a blink and you miss it type town. Perhaps 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:09.000 could be considered by some like a flyover country type situation, 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.680 not in the Midwest, but still similar concept. Coal country 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.200 is what you might call it, isolated in the mountains 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:19.200 and to a large degree, very much hidden away from 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.800 the rest of the world, both geographically and politically, and. 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.960 Just really as an idea of a place that exists. 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:30.560 Yeah, and as we said, his family was not wealthy. 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.520 They were getting by. If you look in certain places, 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.200 you'll see that his father was a coal miner. You 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:41.839 also read about a stint as a bricklayer, also about 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.599 all of the jobs that his mother took on to 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:49.880 support the family when his father got injured, and just 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.480 you know, the struggles of trying to make enough money 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:56.120 to sustain what she got, not trying to reach for 0:05:56.200 --> 0:06:00.240 anything huge and big out in the distance. Right. The 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.200 accumulation of wealth or something. It's let's get by. 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:08.080 Yeah, yeah, And these are fantastic points to bring up 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.640 in the biography. So to be clear, this is not 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:18.120 a situation wherein Old Wild Bill Donovan drops by you know, 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:22.080 Princeton or Harvard or something and says, who wants to 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:26.360 have an adventure over there? You know, with World War two. 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:30.400 This is a kid, He's very much a child at 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:35.040 this point who has a rough start. As we're saying, 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:40.880 he is, by the way, an award winning bricklayer. He 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:45.919 won a competition on that front, and he's as a teen, 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:50.599 he's shoveling snow, he's chopping wood, all to make sure 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.920 that his family can stay aflat. He has two siblings, 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:56.200 a mother and a father, so there are a lot 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.680 of people to support, and like so many other kids 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:04.360 in rural Appalachia, he wants to see the wider world. 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:09.360 And the best chance he has to pursue this dream 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:15.880 is the Armed Forces. So originally Raymond wants to join 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.120 up with the Marines. Noel can give us an urah 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.080 urrah if you will perfect we did. 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:28.360 Let's also remember that he's a big dude and he 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:32.200 Raymond plays football, he does wrestling, and he ex sells 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:36.120 at both of those things where he's an imposing force physically. 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:42.240 The Armed Forces recruiters are not liking him for the Marines. 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:48.120 As he says in his later biography, The Or Autobiography, 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:55.440 the recruiters get this. They wanted toll skinny kids to 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.760 be Marines, and he was. This is a quote built 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.440 like a tree stump. So he is the opposite of 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:08.600 what the recruiters have in mind. And initially they tell him, Okay, 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:13.400 we're not gonna say no to any kid who wants 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.400 to join up with the war machine. You are going 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:21.640 to be what we call a sixty eight whiskey a medic. Ultimately, 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.200 I mean that's a field medic. He didn't know that 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:29.080 at the time. Ultimately he refuses that and he becomes 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.760 what we call an eleven mic that's an infantry man 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.559 in the US Army. So he gets shipped off to 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:40.920 Fort Benning, Georgia, first time he's ever been on a plane. 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:46.120 Georgia furthest farthest he's ever been from home. He's eighteen 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:50.040 years old. At this point. The world is ahead of him. 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:56.000 The horizon beckons fast forward. Stationed in Fort Lewis, he's 0:08:56.120 --> 0:09:00.560 serving out the last of his four year commit to 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:06.319 the army, and then he has this life changing experience. 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:12.959 Some Special Forces trainers go to hangout and they have 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.600 all the ammo, they have all the cool toys, and 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:18.880 they have kind of a field trip and they say, 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:23.000 you know what, let's teach you how to shoot these guns. Right, 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:27.240 Let's teach you, you know, just a cool couple of moves. 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:34.319 And immediately this galvanizes him. It inspires him, and he thinks, 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:40.400 maybe I can one day become part of Special Forces. 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:50.200 It's a very difficult training regiment. The selection process is 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.040 such that there's a high rate of attrition. A lot 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.200 of folks don't make it. But lo and behold, Raymond 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:00.840 Davis cuts the mustard and eventually becomes what we would 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:05.520 call an eighteen bravo, a weapons sergeant. I don't know 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:09.920 if we can express just how brutal this training can be. 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:15.120 Oh yeah, this is intense stuff, for sure. I want 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.120 to bring something up that occurred to him right before 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.680 he signs up with Special Forces, which is interesting to 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.480 me and feels like another one of these moments that occurs. 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:28.600 He ends up spending a little bit of time right 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:33.320 before signing up with Special Forces in Macedonia, which is 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:37.319 it's a country just north of Greece out there, Bulgaria, 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.600 Serbia right around there in that area. And he's serving 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.000 as a UN peacekeeper out there. Yes, which to me 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:49.800 is the type of job that he's going to end 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:53.520 up in eventually. Not exactly the same kind, but has 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:54.840 a lot of similarities. 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:59.599 I think, right, yes, I agree with that. I see that. 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:05.240 As you know, he's an international man by various points 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:10.440 of Macedonia is a fascinating country. It may be an 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:14.800 episode in the future. I love that you're pointing that out. 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:21.640 This experience running into some of the g Watt guys, 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:26.560 George Watson Special Forces guys out there in Macedonia. 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:28.000 Is that what g Watt means. 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.600 I take it to mean that it's it's based on 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.760 I mean, it's lightly based on the career of the 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:40.160 legend George Watson. So, as we were saying, Matt, this 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:46.840 guy comes back and he is incredibly impressed with the 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:53.040 caliber of character he meets in the Special Forces trainers 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:57.480 right in this kind of field day exercise, and he 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:03.640 signs up. There's a tremendously high rate of attrition. Everyone, 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:08.280 by the way, forget everything you heard about like Apocalypse 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:12.880 Now or the other war propaganda films. Everyone who applies 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:18.559 for special forces, if they make that initial application and 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:22.760 they fail the first time, they can apply more than 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:27.000 what the thing is most people, if they can't get 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:31.800 that mustard the first time, then they go back home. 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:33.160 They don't want to do it. 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.599 Can't cut it right, can't cut that mustle. 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:40.760 Right right right, just so. And one of the most 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.040 think about it like grad school. One of the most 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:51.960 brutal aspects of this training is something called sahreve. 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:56.319 Heard about this recently in the TV series Lioness. They 0:12:56.400 --> 0:13:02.200 depict it pretty brutally. It is essentially putting individuals through 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:07.199 the same kind of interrogation, torture, and absolutely brutal hazing 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.840 type rituals as maybe would be done to prisoners of 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:12.960 war or captured combatants. 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:19.319 Correct, yeah, yeah, could you give us the full pronunciation. 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:21.960 What is sarah an acronym. 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:26.880 For it is survival, evasion, resistance, and escape. People can 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.640 literally die throughout the course of this training because of 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:34.480 its incredible brutality, and it includes some you know, real 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:40.640 Sophie's choice Kobayashi maru type situations, unwinnable situations, forcing an 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.120 individual to think on their feet and make some highly 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:48.960 risky choices in mega mega clutch situations. These are accurate 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.600 simulations of real world events where people are required to 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.280 or training trainees are required to live off the land 0:13:55.800 --> 0:14:00.679 attempting to evade very very implacable and brutal forces that 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.040 are on their tail, and you will be captured, and 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.880 you will, to what I was saying earlier, end up 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:09.439 experiencing something very much like what happens to actual prisoners 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:09.800 of war. 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:14.640 The concept of all of this is to almost give 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.400 somebody who's going through it the muscle memory of knowing 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.920 what it's like to be either left behind when you're 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.320 on a mission, or I think it is that, right, 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:29.000 Like you're out there on your own, so something happens. 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.920 Now it's just you and the land and there's enemies 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:36.120 all around you, right Like it's something that psychologically they're 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:40.320 trying to put, they're trying to instill psychologically for every 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.760 one of these people, these specialists that they're going to 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.520 end up sending out there as teams in case one 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.160 of them is lost. 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:53.080 Right, we love a familiar situation, right, We do not 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:58.120 enjoy novelty rights. That's part of it, and the reason 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.320 I wanted us to refer to cope Yashi Maru for 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:06.880 any Star Trek fan is the that is a climactic 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:14.200 part of this sci fi training, the unwinnable situation as 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:19.880 we know spoiler for a very old sci fi series. 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:24.760 Captain James T. Kirk is the only guy who beats 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:29.840 the Kobyashi Maru test originally because he changes the rules 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:34.280 of the game. He moves the constraints, and that's also 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:40.480 part of sare training. It's it's weird, right, It's it's 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:45.720 a strange thing to picture in any job, but it 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:51.600 is a job and it does mimic to high fidelity uh, 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:55.600 the experience of when things go wrong to your point 0:15:55.680 --> 0:16:04.880 matt muscle memory familiarity. So during this training, Raymond suffers 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:09.920 some pretty heavy damage to his right lung specifically, it's 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:14.000 nineteen ninety eight at this point, but the full consequences 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.400 of his injury don't come to bear until two thousand 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:23.080 and one, when that lung pretty much clocks out and 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:29.520 stops working. He has a significant other. At this point, 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:35.320 they relocate to Lexington, Kentucky. He goes to Eastern Kentucky University. 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:40.440 There are a couple of asset protection classes or courses 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:45.200 that he's very interested in. But he's not a classroom guy. 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:49.480 He doesn't want to be stuck in the stuck at 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:53.960 a desk, right, He wants to be outside his own words, 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:58.840 So he rigorously trains himself back to health. And at 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:03.560 every step of this band's origin story, we see a 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:08.520 guy fighting against the odds and succeeding at pursuits the 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.440 ordinary person may well find impossible. 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.720 Absolutely, And then, like everybody else you know, who joins 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:22.080 the military, you either continue your contract. You know, if 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.200 you're in for a certain amount of time, you either 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.159 continue it on or you're done and you leave. So 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.560 he ends up leaving I think this is in three, 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:35.440 two thousand and three, and he does what a lot 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.520 of folks were doing in the early two thousands who 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.440 were either leaving the military or who had been out 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.359 of the military for quite a while. They join up 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:48.760 with a very lucrative group, a specific group we've talked 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.840 about many a time on this show known as Blackwater, 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:59.879 and these are military contractors that are operating in all 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.280 kinds of different places in the Middle East in the 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:03.639 early two thousands. 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:08.200 Yeah, in Mina, right, Middle East, North Africa, a couple 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.760 of other couple other of fun excursions. They got a 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:13.240 Dave and Busters everywhere. 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:14.119 It is. 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.639 This is familiar to a lot of us in the 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:24.280 audience tonight. Let's dispel some myths. From Raymond's own words, 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.520 he argues, a contractor is not the same thing as 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:32.800 a merk or a sorry mercenary or a soldier of fortune. 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:40.359 In his experience, every contractor PMC private military contractor that 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:44.600 he's met is working for you know, your academia, your 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:49.000 ex your Blackwater, your brown root or whatever. But they 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:56.560 have all retained the ideological motivation of the United States 0:18:57.880 --> 0:18:58.840 global game. 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:01.159 It's like Wagner right. 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.680 Just so, and that's sear training. I mean a lot 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:05.040 of that is. 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.520 I mean you can't really deny that it is indoctrination 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:11.320 as well. I mean that level of you know, intense 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:17.679 hazing and brutal treatment kind of that's maybe meant to 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.360 make this stuff acceptable in some way and also perhaps 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:23.800 offer a helping hand at the end of it to 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.200 get you out of it in some way, shape or form. 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:30.560 There is some psychological indoctrination going on there, wouldn't you say? 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.640 That would be really hard to shake in one's lifetime. 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.920 I would say so, I would agree ISI does something similar. 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:44.840 Most modern nation states have some version of that shake 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:49.240 and bake, right, and some non state actors do the same. 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:55.840 To be quite clear, for Raymond's perspective, every contractor he 0:19:55.920 --> 0:20:00.520 has met functioning under the letters of mar of the 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:05.920 United States, they had a previous military career and they 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:14.080 are working to further that ideology, right, They're not, in 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:19.280 his opinion, there are not merks who say, screw the US, 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:24.600 give me ten thousand dollars a bitcoin and let's figure 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:28.840 out this West African country together. That does happen. But 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:31.800 those guys are not the guys he's talking about. 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.800 Sure, but we're also taking the perspective of a man 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.320 who's been through the stuff we're about to talk about, right, 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:42.360 who has kind of been forced to play the role 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:47.000 of pawn in large political schemes and diplomatic things. So, 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:53.639 you know, it's just it's tough to know exactly what 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:57.639 that's like and what you would actually put in a 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.720 book when you write a book about your past life 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:02.560 and everything that's occurred and all of that. 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:07.840 Stuff, especially if they especially if you have a certain 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:09.880 set of editors. 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:16.040 Oh yeah, and a co writer. Was that dude's name Storm's. 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:20.200 Reback, Yes, yeah, different from Stormy Daniels. 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:26.640 Yeah, different from Stormy Daniels. Correct interesting character on other 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.320 books that he's co written, like officially, you know. And 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:31.520 as we know, anybody who's got co writing credits like 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:34.880 on Amazon has probably written way more books. Just their 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:36.160 name didn't end up on there. 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:41.280 Somebody else's did, right, right, Yeah, we've we've been through 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.560 the fire on that one together. H The idea is 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:52.320 that every contractor Raymond meets per his own government approved 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:58.160 autobiography or memoir, they all want to function for the 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:02.159 best interest of the United States, to quote, support and 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:06.480 defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:10.280 foreign and domestic. That is such a banger line. I 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:12.879 don't know about you, guys, It never gets old for me. 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:16.560 Have you ever thought about unpacking it? I mean, like, 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:19.960 does it seem specific enough to you or is there 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:21.880 some kind of broad brush type language there? 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:26.639 Oh, it's totally broad brush. You nailed it, you know 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:31.040 what I mean? Especially the folks who wrote this were 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:39.119 clearly imperfect, and they were clearly and purposely vague. Right, 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:43.080 is what is foreign in the seventeen hundreds. What is 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:47.040 foreign now? What is domestic in the seventeen hundreds is 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:51.720 now right, right, right right? What is the defense? 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:54.159 Yeah, we learned what some of those things mean with 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:57.399 the remember those rock war tapes and some of the 0:22:57.440 --> 0:22:59.879 things that came out via wiki leaks right around that 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:04.040 same time. Correct, specifically with blackwater contractors and the killing 0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:08.960 of civilians. Kind of it's it's scary stuff. And we're 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:10.960 certainly not saying Raymond was a part of any of 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:15.520 that specific thing. It's just there. There's a complexity to 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:17.639 a military contractor. 0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:23.440 Sure, yeah, and we also call it the Department of Defense, yes, 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:30.200 ten no notes. This idea of contracting is, by the way, 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:39.280 not an original pursuit. Contractors civilians assisting war efforts, which 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:44.560 would be the technical definition. They're present in the DNA 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:47.280 of the United States all the way back to the 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:54.960 days of the Revolutionary War. Very tall, very unhinged ginger 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:59.840 named George Washington was hiring folks I, you know, to 0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:07.800 mainly to persecute for his cause. Civilians have always assisted. 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:11.120 Raymond's career is a reflection of that. It took him 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:15.960 around the world, especially in the wake of September eleventh, 0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:22.480 we mentioned his time in Macedonia. We should also mention 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:24.919 his experience in Afghanistan. 0:24:25.280 --> 0:24:27.960 Ben I couldn't find much on his actual time as 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:32.439 a contractor for Blackwater in Afghanistan between three and six. 0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:34.359 What did you find out there? 0:24:35.240 --> 0:24:40.040 Oh, he's just having a grand ole time, you know, learning. 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:47.400 So you should see Matt's face, folks, learning some surveillance, 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:55.879 some infiltrations, some best practices, primarily in Afghanistan. At that point, 0:24:56.200 --> 0:25:04.280 we're talking about protectingtecting arms of US interest, right, So 0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:10.560 that could be individuals, that could be high value infrastructure 0:25:10.800 --> 0:25:12.639 that could be believe it. 0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:17.240 There, giant palettes of billions of dollars in cash that 0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:19.760 accidentally fell off a giant plane. 0:25:19.680 --> 0:25:21.160 Counts as infrastructure. 0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:28.160 Okay, so it's really interesting. We don't know a ton 0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:31.879 of actual detail outside of what stated in the book there, 0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:35.600 but we do know. In two thousand and six, Raymond 0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:39.640 leaves Blackwater, he leaves the Middle East, he comes back 0:25:39.680 --> 0:25:43.560 to the United States, goes to Las Vegas. Yeah, you know, 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:47.040 his roots are in Virginia. His roots are you know, elsewhere, 0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:49.479 maybe in Georgia after spending so much time there, But 0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:52.720 he goes to Las Vegas and starts a private like 0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:55.600 I don't know, what would you call it, almost a 0:25:55.680 --> 0:25:59.360 he starts a private contracting service as like a bodyguard service, 0:25:59.440 --> 0:26:03.880 as a know, anything you might imagine is almost private. 0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:05.920 Intelligence, security consulting. 0:26:06.280 --> 0:26:09.560 There you go, that's a good way to put it. 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:12.119 We've met a few folks who are security consultants, who 0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:15.959 really ex military, who just offer those services to anybody 0:26:16.160 --> 0:26:20.600 who has the budget who needs some security, usually for 0:26:20.680 --> 0:26:23.320 moving a high value person, just like he was doing 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:27.240 in Afghanistan, or high value assets, moving those things around. 0:26:27.680 --> 0:26:30.240 He's the kind of guy that would do things like 0:26:30.800 --> 0:26:34.080 check the surroundings of a meeting place right or where 0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:37.240 a meeting is gonna be held. It reminds me a 0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:40.200 lot of that character. I always forget his. 0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:41.760 Name, Homer Simpson. 0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:50.040 That's the one specifically, Homer Simpson backing away into the bush. 0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:54.040 No, it's the character from Breaking Bad and Better call 0:26:54.119 --> 0:26:57.960 Saul whose dogs like yeah, yes. 0:26:58.080 --> 0:27:01.560 It reminds me of a man true consult material, taking 0:27:01.600 --> 0:27:03.720 his you know, police training and then just you know, 0:27:03.800 --> 0:27:06.320 giving him a leg up in the world of crime. 0:27:06.960 --> 0:27:08.960 So I think that's an interesting parallel that you point out. 0:27:08.960 --> 0:27:09.160 Matt. 0:27:09.840 --> 0:27:14.080 You can always tell those guys h new offense. Some 0:27:14.240 --> 0:27:18.560 of us are listening tonight. We could always tell dudes, 0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:26.040 it's not that you're mean or presenting something aggressive. It's 0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:29.280 the fact that you always please beat me here. It's 0:27:29.359 --> 0:27:34.280 the fact that you always look so tired whenever something happens, 0:27:34.480 --> 0:27:40.840 and you're like, so, there's probably a tracer. It's probably 0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:41.640 in the gas cap. 0:27:42.840 --> 0:27:45.440 Remember the episode where he took the car apart entirely 0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:47.600 and then couldn't find it and then finally found it. 0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:49.359 Like it wasn't the yes, thank you, It was in 0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:51.640 the gas cap spoilers, but it took him a minute 0:27:51.680 --> 0:27:53.520 to find it, but he worked his butt off to 0:27:53.560 --> 0:27:53.920 get there. 0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:56.280 If you can eat a gun, I'll just take one 0:27:56.320 --> 0:27:57.080 of yours. 0:27:56.880 --> 0:28:01.240 Take one of your yes, exactly the kind of guys 0:28:01.240 --> 0:28:04.880