1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg is now on your dashboard with Apple CarPlay and 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Android Auto. It gives you access to every Bloomberg podcast, 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: live audio feeds from Bloomberg Radio, print stories from Bloomberg 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: News in audio form, and the latest headlines of the 5 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: click of a button with Bloomberg News. Now it's free 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: with the latest version of the Bloomberg Business App. That's 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business App. Get it on your phone in 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: the Apple App Store or on Google Play. Just download 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: the app, connect your phone to your car and get started. 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: And it's all presented by our sponsor, Interactive Brokers. 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside 12 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: my co host Matt Miller. 13 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 1: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, 14 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market Moven News. 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 2: I'm the Bloomberg Markets podcast called Apple Podcasts or wherever 16 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com Slash podcast. 17 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 3: All right, let's talk stocks. 18 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: Let's talk stocks that pay dividends, and we do that 19 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: with David Bonson. He's a founder and chief investment officer 20 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: at the Bonson Group. 21 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 3: David, We've got. 22 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 2: Probably since the last time we talked had a nice 23 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: move up and rates kind of you know, and I 24 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: guess the question is, you know, dividend paying stocks. How 25 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: do you think about dividen paying stocks in the context of, Hey, 26 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: I can sit in a two year treasury and get 27 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: four point ninety six percent here. 28 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a very good question. And I think that 29 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 4: when the two year is at zero percent for fifteen years, 30 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 4: people got a feel for what my answer is going 31 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 4: to be. The two year is not going to stay 32 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 4: at four point nine cents, right, And if let's say 33 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 4: you buy it and then in two years it's still 34 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 4: at four point nine to six, it won't be and 35 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 4: it isn't growing. That's the issue of dividend growth is 36 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 4: the growth. Not only do you get something that is 37 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 4: consistently going to be at the level which you enter, 38 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 4: it's going to grow year over year. With fixed income. 39 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 3: They hopefully right. 40 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: I mean, there have been companies like BP or Disney 41 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: that have cut dividends. 42 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 4: It would be very very important for a dividen growth 43 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 4: manager to not allow dividen cuts to have and so 44 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 4: in twenty five years, we've never had one, and I 45 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 4: intend to go to the rest of my career without one. 46 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 4: But there are certainly companies that cut dividends, and we 47 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 4: really don't recommend people. 48 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 5: You don't get blindsided by something like BP. 49 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, BP gave plenty of forecast that what 50 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 4: was happening. You had both President Obama and the former 51 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 4: candidate John McCain recommending the same thing that they ring 52 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 4: fenced twenty billion of liability damage around it. There was 53 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 4: no way they were going to do that and keep 54 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 4: the dividend, So it gave people months of time to 55 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 4: sell before the dividend was cut. 56 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 5: That's why I needed something like him, because I didn't know. 57 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 3: I didn't know that a career maker for me was 58 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 3: City Group. 59 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 4: In two thousand and seven, they came out announced that 60 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 4: they were continuing to pay the dividend. At that point, 61 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 4: it was up to about seven percent yield. 62 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 3: The stock was down, and. 63 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 4: Then they borrowed eleven billion dollars from the Kuwaitis and 64 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 4: Saudi Arabian Sovereign Wealth Fund. And I said, I don't 65 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 4: think people taking advance on their credit card to pay 66 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 4: a dividend counts. It has to come from free cash flow. 67 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 4: They have to have lower leverage, you have to have 68 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 4: a good balance sheet, you have to have a business 69 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 4: model that leads to sustainable free cash flow. That's why 70 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 4: we have to be actively managing. 71 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 3: So how many names are in your portfolio right now? 72 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 4: Thirty three names? 73 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 5: Thirty three? 74 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 4: I never had more than thirty five in my home. 75 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: And again and you're focusing exclusively on dividend growth, right 76 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: and what's how do you define what's a good policy 77 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: if I'm a CFO to plan my dividends? 78 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 6: Ash? 79 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: Is it a percentage of earnings? Is a percentage free 80 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 2: cash flow? 81 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 3: Is it? 82 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 7: How? 83 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 5: Is It's interesting? 84 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 4: Did payout ratios refer to a percentage of earnings that 85 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 4: are paid out? But we like to look at the 86 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 4: free cash flow and what percentage of that's being paid out. 87 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 4: And I think most CFOs in America are used to 88 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 4: annualizing a dividend, even if earnings or free cash flow 89 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 4: may be somewhat lumpy throughout the year. I think it's 90 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 4: a much better way to do it and affect their 91 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 4: growth one time a year as opposed to kind of 92 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 4: going up and down. We have I think three companies 93 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 4: in the portfolio and then it's Blackstone, Apollo, and Blue Out. 94 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 4: They're asset managers that get carry and carry is intrinsically lumpy, 95 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 4: so they tend to pay it a little lumpier, but 96 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 4: most just pay it in a systematic quarterly way. 97 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: So you're so the ETF is TBG, the Bonson Group 98 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: pretty easy to remember, and so I click TBG Equity 99 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: DS into the Bloomberg and then I can click the 100 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: holdings tab and I see Simon Properties as your top holding. 101 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 5: Now, Paul and I, I don't. 102 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: Know exactly what's in Simon Property's portfolio, but Paul and 103 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: I talk about commercial real estate with angst and fear 104 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:25,239 Speaker 1: every day. 105 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 4: Well, that's you're making a really bullish argument, by the way, 106 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 4: for a contrarian investor, which is to say, a good investor. 107 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 4: But let me explain what's going on with Simon Property. 108 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 4: It's two hundred and seventy two of the best malls 109 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 4: in America. They have given the keys back for four 110 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 4: of them. They were non recourse, so they lost a 111 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 4: little bit of equity and the lenders had to go fight. Okay, 112 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 4: right now, they have the highest occupancy in the history 113 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 4: of Simon Property, at the highest per foot in the 114 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 4: history of Simon Property. The ninety six point nine percent. 115 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 4: They've taken positions and some of the retailers that have failed, 116 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 4: there are going to be more that fail. Now they've 117 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 4: learned to monetize that. They took jp Jcpenny for five 118 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars a box. It was trading at twenty 119 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 4: million a box. They're selling some to Amazon, They're reconverting 120 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 4: some into condos and mixed use. It's this massive collection 121 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 4: of real estate that can be repurposed, monetized into something 122 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 4: more valuable. While they do that, we get over seven 123 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 4: percent yield entirely covered by net operating income, and the 124 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 4: leverage is at about forty seven percent. It was sixty 125 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 4: five percent before the financial crisis. 126 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 5: All right. Number two is Verizon. 127 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: That makes total sense to me, obviously as a dividend play. 128 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: Number three International business machine Big Blue. 129 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 4: One of the great names people could buy. 130 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,679 Speaker 5: And this is an idea of a model. 131 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 4: We like a lot. You have old businesses that don't 132 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 4: grow a lot paying you a ton of free cash 133 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 4: flow with new businesses that are sort of not priced 134 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,239 Speaker 4: in the represent a free call option. Will they become 135 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 4: a real leader in artificial intelligence? I don't know. I 136 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 4: think they will, but I do know this, it's not 137 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 4: priced in the stock at all. The stock is entirely 138 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 4: priced off a multiple of its book value of a 139 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 4: kind of more old, stodgier businesses. But they have basically 140 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 4: turned most of the business into software and consulting recurring revenue. 141 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 4: So we love IBM. You get five percent dividend yield. 142 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 4: The Red Hat acquisition was expensive, but they're monetizing it, 143 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 4: so IBM's a great dividend grower for years to come. 144 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,799 Speaker 2: All Right, I'm heading down to Duke University this afternoon, 145 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: and I may or may not bump into Tim Cook, 146 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 2: CEO of Apple. 147 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 3: If I were to get you two guys. 148 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: In a room talking dividends, what would you tell him? 149 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 4: Well, I would not tell him anything that others much 150 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 4: smarter and more prestigious than me have not also told him, 151 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 4: And they have failed, and so I'm sure I would fail. 152 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 4: But what Apple's doing is shameful, and the inability to 153 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 4: monetize that level of enterprise value I think is unacceptable. 154 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 4: They will not do something with that two hundred billion 155 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 4: as profitable as returning it to shareholders. They bought Doctor 156 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 4: J's headphone company for three billion dollars. It wasn't worth 157 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 4: nine hundred millions, soaking wet, But who cares. 158 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 3: It's Apple. 159 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 4: They make it in five minutes. My point is, in aggregate, 160 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 4: you can set money on fire when you don't have 161 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 4: an adequate shareholder return policy. They are a victim of 162 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 4: their own success. This cannot be set as a criticism. 163 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 4: They generate too much free cash flow to reinvest all 164 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 4: of it. It has to be returned to shareholders. There 165 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 4: ought to be a very large, juicy dividend coming back 166 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 4: to shareholders. Now here's the thing. They're gonna do it. 167 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 4: Steve Jobs wouldn't do it. Tim Cook did end up 168 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 4: doing a small one. Yep, they grew so much the 169 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 4: yield is now half of a percentage point. I don't 170 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 4: know if it's in a year or ten years, but 171 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 4: every one of these arrogant cool tech companies finds out 172 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 4: that at some point you have a higher return on 173 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 4: equity returning this to shareholders. 174 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 5: So all of the. 175 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 4: Companies from the nineties that didn't do it, Cisco, Microsoft, Qualcom, 176 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 4: they all became great dividend growers later Apple will as well. 177 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 5: They're just not there yet. You're gonna you said you're 178 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 5: gonna talk to them. I'm going to talk to them, 179 00:07:58,840 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 5: and you're going to tell them. 180 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: I'm want to say, I talked to this guy, David Bonson. 181 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: He has a firm, it's his firm, Yeah, in Newport Beach, California. 182 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 8: That's the beach. 183 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 7: Yeah. 184 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 2: Yet he spends three weeks a month here in New York. 185 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 2: What are you doing, my man, it's your company. It's 186 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: three weeks there, maybe a week here to talk to 187 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: the eggheads. 188 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 3: In New York. 189 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 4: I really love to work and I think you'll find 190 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 4: the work ethic is a little more impressive in Manhattan 191 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 4: the Newport Beach. 192 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 2: Are there other people that do like this intensive dividend 193 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: strategy that you do? 194 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 4: There are other divnent growth managers? There are not You 195 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 4: mentioned this ETF that is active. Most ETFs that people 196 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 4: own in the divid and growth space are passive, and 197 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 4: I vehemently disagree with that approach. I think it's better 198 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 4: than nothing. But we have built quite a business around 199 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 4: active dividend growth and it's what I built my career around. 200 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 4: I believe in it very much. 201 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 5: Sold us the boxing. 202 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: I'm trying to get him on the ETF OQ program. 203 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 7: Do it. 204 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 3: I think, do a little remote out there in l. 205 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 5: We should definitely do it from Newport Beach. 206 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 3: No, but instead we're going downtown to lower Manhat. 207 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 7: You're listening to the Team Ken's are Live program Bloomberg 208 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 7: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, 209 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 7: the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen 210 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 7: on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 211 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 2: Disney reported numbers last night. I thought pretty good. They're 212 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: cutting costs, so the stocks up. But quite frankly, folks, 213 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 2: I've been doing this media stuff for almost thirty years. 214 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:23,719 Speaker 2: I have no idea how these companies are going to 215 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 2: transition to this new streaming model. 216 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,359 Speaker 3: But that who cares because we have somebody. 217 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 2: Who's really, really smart on this stuff, Michael Nathanson. He's 218 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 2: a founding partner and senior research channelist Moffatt Nathanson. Michael, 219 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 2: thanks so much for joining us here. Again, I'm like 220 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 2: most investors like I don't know where to go with 221 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 2: these media stocks. What did you hear from Disney last night? 222 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 8: Well, I think what we heard from Disney that made 223 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 8: a difference was they gave you cash flow guidance that 224 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 8: many people feel more comfortable with the valuation, and you 225 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 8: also heard that they're going to spend less on content 226 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 8: going forward, and again, like it feels, and you said 227 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 8: this before bout streaming, there is just over spending on streaming. 228 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 8: People are throwing money at it left and right, and 229 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 8: it feels to me that there's some rationality coming back 230 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 8: and that Disney is going to spend less on cash 231 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 8: content spend and that's going to basically drive free casheling. 232 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 8: And to me, if you look at the Disney's earnings, 233 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 8: it's essentially a parks company, So I don't want them 234 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 8: blowing money on streaming if there's no return on capital. 235 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 8: So I'm pretty happy with this outcome because we've been 236 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 8: saying forever like this is a parks company and media 237 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 8: is becoming less and less important because it's going down 238 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 8: every day and in terms of profitability, as you know 239 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 8: very well. 240 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: So is it important to you to know whether they're 241 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: in or out of streaming. A lot of people have 242 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: said I want to know their strategy in regards to streaming. 243 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: Netflix obviously also spends like a drunken salor on content creating, 244 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: but Netflix rules the roost, right, So I mean, what's 245 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: the point of spending less? 246 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 5: Why not just be out of it. 247 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 8: We can't at this point, they can't be out of it. 248 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 8: They you know, their view is that Disney Plus, that 249 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 8: Disney should have a direct relationship with consumers as they 250 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 8: do in the theme parks, right, and the long history 251 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 8: of media, Disney never knew it's true consumer right. It 252 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 8: was always a third party was doing distribution. So I 253 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 8: think Disney can't be out of it. The question is 254 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 8: how much should Disney be in it? Right, should they 255 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 8: be competing with Netflix or should they be a smaller, 256 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 8: more targeted service for Disney super fans. And that's been 257 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 8: our contention all along. You don't have to be Netflix. 258 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 8: You have to make a Disney Plus product for your 259 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 8: core fans. There's less of them, you can charge more money. 260 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 8: That's probably a better business. And we've been saying that 261 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 8: they do not be Netflix. It's not a business you 262 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 8: want to be in it, And they're listening. I think 263 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 8: I think they're realizing that they have a great, great 264 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 8: business model as is, and they need to basically just 265 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,599 Speaker 8: make sure their fans are being nourished, you know, and 266 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 8: not overspend when things that are not core. 267 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 2: All right, So if they're going to be focusing on 268 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 2: their core fans, primarily through their parks business. 269 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 3: What do you do with all the other stuff. 270 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 2: They've kind of got a big studio operation that kind 271 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,479 Speaker 2: of got a bunch of linear cable and broadcast networks. 272 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 3: What do you do with all that stuff? 273 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 8: Okay, well, studio is key because you think about I mean, 274 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 8: you've known this for your studio is a way to 275 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 8: refresh the characters in the park, like the flywheel starts YEP, 276 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 8: with studio and IP. 277 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 5: It has to happen. 278 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: I watched Cinderella last night, by the way, with my 279 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: three year old daughter, and at one point one mouse says, 280 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: let's lead the sewing to the women, and I thought, oh, 281 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: I should not be showing her the nineteen fifty version. 282 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 8: Well, there's a long list of movies from that area 283 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 8: should be showing her for that same reason. But the 284 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 8: view is, look, we've been debating with the company openly 285 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 8: that we don't know why ABC and ESPN need to 286 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 8: be part of that new company, right, and the company 287 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 8: has not really said what they want to sell. But 288 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 8: like our theory is at the heart of Disney is 289 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 8: the IP. Then you have consumer products and theme parks 290 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 8: and films, but that business is worth a lot, and 291 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 8: then the other businesses that you see from valuations of 292 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 8: all the peers doesn't worth that much. Right, They like sports, 293 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 8: they like ESPN. That sounds like it's staying, but like 294 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 8: they're still open debate about what do they do with 295 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 8: ABC or the Fox assets they bought, and that's not 296 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 8: going to end anytime soon. But our point is being 297 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 8: it doesn't really much matter because the core is you know, 298 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 8: Studio Film, Disney Plus and those other assets are so 299 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 8: lowly valued and it's not going to matter. You really 300 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 8: need to stop the wasteful spending and streaming and focus 301 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 8: on the core, which is what we heard last night. 302 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 3: So another issue Michael is Bob Biger. We love him. 303 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 3: He's been great for shareholders. 304 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 2: He's kind of put himself in a box once again 305 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 2: in terms of timing and succession. 306 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 3: Anything new there? 307 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 2: Do we read anything into this new external CFO being heard? 308 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 3: How do you think about that? 309 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 7: Now? 310 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 8: Yeah, that's a good question. The CFO externally is interesting 311 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 8: because they I don't think there's being an external CFO 312 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 8: in twenty five thirty in a long long time. So 313 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 8: I think that person is going to come in. You 314 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 8: Johnson from a PEPSI don't coming to look at the 315 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 8: cost structure. I don't see him, I don't know him, 316 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 8: but I don't see that as an air replacement for Bob. 317 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 8: I think the question is going to be for the 318 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 8: new CFO where they're wasteful spending, what can he do 319 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 8: to bring kind of a Pepsi discipline to Disney. But 320 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 8: I still think you still have an open, an open 321 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 8: question about who replaces Bob. It's not easy because of 322 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 8: the diversity of operations. You know, We've been saying, look, 323 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 8: maybe break the thing into two again, and I think 324 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 8: if that's the case, the Parkside will rise in value 325 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 8: in terms of the management team. But I think as 326 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 8: the company stays as Disney that it would change the structure. 327 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 8: It's a hard job to fill. Yeah, I don't think 328 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 8: the new CFO is on that short list yet because 329 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 8: he's never worked in this industry before. 330 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: Sure, all right, it looks like everybody's back to work 331 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: in Hollywood, first the writers and now the actors. How 332 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 2: is this going to play out over the next several 333 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: quarters in terms of production and releases and all that stuff. 334 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 8: That's a good question. Amazed that it's been personally so 335 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 8: long that the strike has taken so long to us 336 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 8: all because it's been really damaging to the ecosystem. I 337 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 8: think people get back to work in the next well 338 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 8: Thanksgiving coming up, right, so probably December January. You probably 339 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 8: get yourself a content slate and output that starts looking 340 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 8: more normal by the February timeframe. But you basically just 341 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 8: had six months of training people not to watch broadcast 342 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 8: TV for content, you know, not to go to the 343 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 8: theaters anything besides Barbie and Oppenheimer. I think it's just 344 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 8: really bad. I think people do change behavior and it's 345 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 8: hard to get them back, and so, yeah, people will 346 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 8: be back working, but I worry about what happened on 347 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 8: the other side of this. I really do, all. 348 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: Right, Michael, I always appreciate getting a few minutes of 349 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 2: your time some of the really, really most thoughtful research 350 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 2: out there in my opinion on the media entertainment space. 351 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: Michael Nathanson, he's a founding partner and senior research analyst 352 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: with Moffatt Nathanson. 353 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 3: Good news from Disney last night. 354 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 2: The stock is up seven percent here today, although it's 355 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 2: only a four percent year today, kind of reflecting a 356 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 2: lot of investors still remain really unsure as to the 357 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: trajectory for this industry as it tries to pivot from 358 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 2: the traditional. 359 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 3: Media model that they had all enjoyed over the. 360 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: Last thirty forty years, which is you and me paying 361 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: eighty hundred bucks a month to our cable company and 362 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 2: that a lot of that flowing right to the media company. 363 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 2: So that model is no longer in the forefront here. 364 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: It's all about streaming, and there are different economics there 365 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: in these companies and these investors trying to figure out 366 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 2: how that really plays out over time. Michael Methans and 367 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 2: really one of the top folks on the street. 368 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 7: You're listening to The tape cats are live program Bloomberg 369 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 7: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 370 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 7: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 371 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 7: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 372 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 7: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 373 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 2: The market loves AI. 374 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 3: The market loves ETFs. 375 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: So let's create an ETF because it is on AI. 376 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: And that's what our next guests are doing. Have done, 377 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: will do? Uh, Francis oh apac CEO and head of 378 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 2: AI E TFS for Craft Technologies A pac A lot 379 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 2: to go there, Young Child, Director of AI Business Development 380 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: and Strategic Partnerships at l g AI Research. A lot 381 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 2: of stuff going on here, gentlemen. Thank you for joining 382 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 2: us here in our Bloomberg Interactive broker studio. What are 383 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 2: you guys building here? What are you guys launching off 384 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 2: to let you guys figure it out right right? 385 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 6: Thank you? 386 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 9: First of all, thank you for let us sharing our stories. 387 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 9: Then yeah, yeah, so the Craft techlounches and A and 388 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 9: LGA Research, we just launched our latest AI powered et AF, 389 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 9: the Taker l Q a I l Q Tuesday on 390 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 9: the New York Sticky Change. So this one is special 391 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 9: because so far we have in the craft we had 392 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 9: the full et apps in n C, but this one 393 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 9: is first ETAP that co branded one together with lg 394 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 9: so retake and leveraging on the LGAI is their own 395 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 9: AI model combined you so delivering to the a new 396 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 9: altnative to entering into the Yuslaska markets. 397 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: All right, so young what did you guys at LGAI Research, 398 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 2: What do you guys do? 399 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 3: What do you bring to the table here your model exactly? 400 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 10: Yeah, So we basically power this product LGAI Research. Just 401 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 10: to give you a little bit of background, we are 402 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 10: institutional fundamental research for LG Group, which is the holdings 403 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 10: company for LG Electronics, and we do various different researches 404 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 10: in areas such as you know, text, image, vision, all 405 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 10: the good stuff. And on the applied AI side, we 406 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 10: have what's called a time series forecasting model powered by AI. 407 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 10: So we are using this model to basically forecast the future, 408 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 10: and that's essentially the engine that powers this ETF. 409 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 5: So what do you put into the model? 410 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, the ETF invests I'm just 411 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: looking at the description page here minimum of eighty percent 412 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: of its assets in US list large. 413 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 5: Cap companies, So what like S and P companies. 414 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 9: Yeah, you can consider these large community verses around five 415 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 9: hundred to seven hundred names, the largest market cap in 416 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 9: the stock exchange. And this model is all having the 417 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 9: different models to screening out one hundred names on a 418 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 9: four week spasis. So by the process of the screening 419 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 9: out and the weighting we are leveraging lgised technologies. 420 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: And then so young, what do you put into your 421 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: model in order to forecast how these companies are going 422 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: to do. 423 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 10: Yeah. So the data inputs are macro level data, fundamental 424 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 10: ten k's and also the most recent price data and 425 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 10: UH there are we we take what's called a multivariate 426 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 10: approach when it comes to the model modeling. So it's 427 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 10: not just the single model. There are multiple multiple models 428 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 10: that are specific to a task. So there's a forecasting process, 429 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 10: there's a ranking process, there's a selecting process, and a 430 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 10: waiting process and put all those things together where our 431 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 10: goal is to find hidden alphas using deep learning models. 432 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 3: Has this been tested yes? So and how how has 433 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: the performance been so? 434 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 10: Within within the group, we we move a lot of 435 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 10: goods across the sea, and we have used this technology 436 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 10: on the supply and demand forecasting side and and have 437 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 10: seen a lot of good results on the supply chain 438 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 10: management efficiency efforts and also on the purchasing of raw materials. 439 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,959 Speaker 10: So LG has a pretty big chemical business and they 440 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 10: also purchased a lot of different raw materials such as 441 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,959 Speaker 10: lithium and and nafta and we UH saved a lot 442 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 10: of money doing this UH using this AI part AH 443 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 10: forecasting model. And now we're sort of moving into the 444 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 10: financial markets where there's very robust and an abundant amount 445 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 10: of data that will better sort of optimize our our 446 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 10: forecasting abilities. 447 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: I see, so you developed a model to help l 448 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: G say money in its business, and then you realize 449 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: that this model was also applicable to the investment space, 450 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: and that's where you team up with Craft and now 451 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: you have essentially one hundred names, right, but it's an 452 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: active ETF, so you can move in and things in 453 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: and out exactly of the right now. I see Netflix 454 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: as your biggest holding. You've got Senkora, McKesson, United Health, Intel, Lily, Microsoft, 455 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: these are all your top holdings and they're big, big companies, 456 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: so they're going to be relatively stable. 457 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 9: I imagine, yes, it is a letther stable, but at 458 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,479 Speaker 9: the same time enough active because out of the US 459 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 9: lost k unifos, we only choosing the one hundred names 460 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 9: in every four week spaces, so it is all our 461 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 9: CAFT hold three hundred and fifty names. This almost will 462 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 9: be more concentrated on hundred names too, so we are 463 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 9: expecting the top names are we'll be in and out 464 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 9: of the every four weeks of time. 465 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 2: So is the LQAI is the AI ETF, which is 466 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 2: different from your large cap etf qr FT. Yes, So 467 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 2: is it focusing on companies that are going to benefit 468 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 2: from AI? 469 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 3: No, it's not. It's using AI to pick stocks exactly. 470 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 2: Boom see all right, I'm it's all coming to me now, yeah, okay, 471 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 2: So what does the model kind of solve for? Like, 472 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 2: what is it it solves for? What are some of 473 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,959 Speaker 2: the big variables? Is a sales growth, earnings growth, revenue exactly? 474 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: I mean, are you trying to look at companies like 475 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: who's going to make the most money? Are you trying 476 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: to look at companies you know, which consumers are gonna 477 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: gonna pick this company versus that company? 478 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 5: Or are you trying to look at you know, the 479 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 5: stock market is going to. 480 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: Rank this company highest because obviously just because a company 481 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: does well doesn't mean that the stock market is going 482 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: to agree that it's worth more. 483 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 5: Right, It's it's it's really all weather. 484 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 9: Right. 485 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 10: So this AI agent uses neural network, which works like 486 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 10: a human brain. 487 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:47,239 Speaker 7: Right. 488 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 10: So if you if you think about the traditional quant 489 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 10: approach of investing, it's a bit static, right, But on 490 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 10: the neural network and deep learning side, the AI model 491 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 10: chaininges in between cycles, right, so we rebalance every four weeks. 492 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 10: Depending on the input data and the training that it 493 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 10: goes through, it has the ability to adjust whether whether 494 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 10: that's taking more on more risk or less risk. We 495 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 10: have different scoring systems that does that and depending on 496 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 10: the cycle it'll it will actively and flexibly adjust the markets. 497 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 9: So the model is actually the first step for model 498 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 9: is doing is predicting for a target price for the 499 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 9: next four weeks of time. In the rebalance, I see 500 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,479 Speaker 9: the same time estimating for volatility of the injurer stocks. 501 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 9: The model will generating the millions of different path is 502 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 9: pass for the next four weeks of time. And then 503 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,959 Speaker 9: there's another agent, AI models all trying to find out 504 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 9: out of millions of a possibility, what will be the 505 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 9: most likely change at the given the time of the 506 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 9: now casting. Then we choose the most likely one and 507 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 9: that will be the basis of the full construction of 508 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 9: the dismiss. 509 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 3: Every four weeks it rebalances is our material change every four. 510 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 9: Weeks, you're expecting on base on our the Baptist state, 511 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 9: you are expecting around the twenty percent plus in and 512 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 9: out of the names on every four weeks. 513 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 3: Wow, fascinating stuff. 514 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 5: It's only been only been active for two days. 515 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 2: I know, yes, so l QA all right, so we 516 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 2: want to once you to come in and maybe three 517 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 2: to six months and tell us how performance has been. 518 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 7: You're listening to the tape Catcher Live program Bloomberg Markets 519 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 7: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune 520 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 7: in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 521 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 7: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 522 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 7: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. 523 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: Eagle Namdar he is the founder of Naandar Realty Group, 524 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: and if you know of him, it's probably because of 525 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: his shopping mall purchases. Heos owns literally hundreds of shopping 526 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: malls across the country. But more and more I've seen 527 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: his name in among a very small list of office buyers, 528 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: especially here in New York City. There's a big concern 529 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: about the excess office inventory that we have and the 530 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: difficulty of repurposing it for anything else. Abigail Doolittle joins 531 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 1: us as well, because Abigail, you've been talking to EGO 532 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: about this market. Ego, what well, first of all, thanks 533 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: for coming in. What do you think about this this 534 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: office market? What would lead you to buy here when 535 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: it seems like, to use a very cliched phrase, it 536 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: would be an attempt at catching falling knives. 537 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 8: Yeah. 538 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 6: Well, for for the first thing, I'll tell you that 539 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 6: as my philosophy into investments, were like a contrarian investor, 540 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 6: and we kind of like always buy when everyone's selling, 541 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 6: and we sell when everyone's buying. So that's our model. 542 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 6: I agree that this is a right now. There's a 543 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 6: lot going on in the office market, and I think 544 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 6: that there will be a recovery. I'm not sure exactly 545 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 6: if we'll ever go back to pre COVID occupancies, but 546 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 6: my thoughts are, if you can buy office buildings, avenue buildings, 547 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 6: corner great light and air, prime sub markets, locations, high 548 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 6: quality stuff, maybe A or a minus, there's going to 549 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 6: be a flight to quality where a lot of the B, 550 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 6: C and D office buildings will probably have to be repurposed. 551 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 6: And so between the contraction of all that office space 552 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 6: and being able to people have to move to different buildings. 553 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 6: As events come down, you start seeing a lot of 554 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 6: people shifting from different buildings. Between that and hopefully more 555 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 6: people coming back to the office. It's more big corporations 556 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 6: will have their employees come back. We think it will 557 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 6: come back, but I think that. 558 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 5: But let me just to get it straight. 559 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: Are you buying the AA minus buildings or are you 560 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: looking lower down the ladder in terms of office, And 561 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: then what are you paying compared to what the prices 562 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: were pre pandemic. 563 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 6: So I would say our first entry into office was 564 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 6: intoenty twenty and at that point we were buying asset 565 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 6: and asset that was priced at eight hundred and we 566 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 6: bought it for four hundred. It was not an a 567 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 6: it was a great location. But as time goes by, 568 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 6: we think things have gotten worse since twenty twenty and 569 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 6: twenty one, and now our focus is more into the 570 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 6: better quality assets. And of course we want to buy 571 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 6: it at a steep discount, but you also don't want 572 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 6: to buy something that's never going to turn around because 573 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 6: you can get a big discount, and if it's never 574 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 6: going to turn around as an office, then no matter 575 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 6: what you paid between your carry and what will the 576 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 6: time you have to put in it won't be worthwhile. 577 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 6: So our focus now is the better quality assets. Like 578 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 6: I said, Avenue Corners and hopefully that's going. 579 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 11: To rebound so you got you know, your philosophy sound 580 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 11: a little bit like Warren Buffett when you're saying basically 581 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 11: that you like to buy when everybody else is running. 582 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 11: He has a pretty famous statement that the time to 583 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 11: be greedy is when everybody else is fearful, and be 584 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 11: fearful when everybody else is greedy. And we talked, you said, 585 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 11: we said that what you basically just said that you 586 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 11: make your money where you buy it. So how many 587 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 11: properties have you bought so far? And in terms of 588 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 11: the opportunity ahead, one point five trillion of CMBs is 589 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 11: coming due by the end of twenty twenty five. You know, 590 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 11: when you put that together with the fact that here 591 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 11: in New York, working from home, you know the vacancy rates. 592 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 11: And then we had a conversation with another office investor 593 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 11: a number of weeks ago. We're talking about the value 594 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 11: of Third Avenue. He wasn't willing to put a price 595 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 11: on it because I didn't think he wanted to sell 596 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 11: out his friends so much. But you basically just said 597 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 11: that there was a fifty percent haircut on that building. 598 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 11: From a broad perspective, if you had to give not 599 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 11: Class A and trophy, what's the opportunity ahead and for 600 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 11: how long. I guess here in New York. 601 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 6: I think if you take out the A assets and 602 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 6: focus on the bn de cs, there will be a tremendous. 603 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 11: There has been a bit more than fifty percent down. 604 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 6: Yes, some assets are down seventy percent. 605 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 11: That's what I've been hearing. On Third Avenue, somebody was 606 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 11: saying that it's like twenty five cents on the dollar. 607 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, Third Avenue, carridor that area in the midtown that's 608 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 6: been hit the most. 609 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 11: They have a lot of space, and so are there 610 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 11: a lot of other investors like you? I mean, I 611 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 11: guess it's probably for the people who have the money 612 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 11: and who have the ability to model it out. It's 613 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 11: a great opportunity. Really, yeah, we just for other. 614 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 6: People, but absolutely so. I'm not an institution. It's all 615 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 6: my own family money, so it's all sweat equity. So 616 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 6: I really pay attention and I analyze deals and I 617 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 6: look at the downside, and I think, like you said, 618 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 6: the money is made in real estate on your purchase 619 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 6: and if you can buy good assets at a good 620 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 6: discount and you just have patient capital to wait for 621 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 6: market to turn around, and hopefully I think the rates 622 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 6: have a lot to do with it, because once the 623 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 6: rates hopefully will go down, then you're going to see 624 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 6: the asset values hopefully increasing. 625 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 3: Well, do rates have to go down? 626 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: Like if we're in a new normal and rates are 627 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: going to stay where they are and Japowell is going 628 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: to actually stick by higher for longer, at what point 629 00:29:59,080 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: does that cause any break? 630 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 6: Well, I mean the rates. My own humble opinion is 631 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 6: they would have to go down in the future. It's 632 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 6: just I don't know if they will be back to 633 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 6: zero rates. I think it would be somewhere in between 634 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 6: the five and a quarter that was raised and what 635 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 6: it was before that. But I can't see the rates 636 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 6: never going down. I mean home mortgages where people are 637 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 6: paying to some percent another at seven percent. How could 638 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 6: the average person survive with a five percent increase in 639 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 6: the rates? 640 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 11: I mean is called the nineteen eighties, Yeah, and eighties. 641 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 11: You know something that we talked about also is so you, 642 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 11: of course are known as a big distressed mall investor 643 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 11: based on some of my work. You're known as one 644 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 11: of the two big mall distressed investors. And you told 645 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 11: me that people know when they have to sell something 646 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 11: quickly without due diligence and turn around. That you are 647 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 11: known as somebody who can do a cash deal pretty quickly. 648 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 11: But you were saying that for some of these properties 649 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 11: that don't work out that you sometimes will then build, 650 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 11: you know, tear the building down and read development. But 651 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 11: that right now, because rates are so high, it's really 652 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 11: hard to do construction. So what does that piece of 653 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 11: your business look like. 654 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 6: So regarding our mall business, I wouldn't say we're focused 655 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 6: in distressed malls. I think we're focused on distressed loans, 656 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,479 Speaker 6: which are over leveraged. Our best purchases are maturity default 657 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 6: loans that the assets are on their own doing well, 658 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 6: but there's just too much data on it and the 659 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,479 Speaker 6: owner can't refinance unless they put a ton of equity. Therefore, 660 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 6: the lenders are taking them back and they just want 661 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 6: it off their books. And again the opportunity to buy 662 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 6: at the right basis we go in there. So we're 663 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,479 Speaker 6: focused on having that, and our main focus on our 664 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 6: malls is to keep them as malls because we believe 665 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 6: there's a future for brick and mortar. And in some 666 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 6: events where obviously do some malls do go down, then 667 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 6: we look at that as a redevelopment into something else. 668 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 6: And in our case, since we have patient capital, if 669 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 6: we have to wait a little longer for the rates 670 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 6: to go down, or find the right av partner to 671 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 6: come and join us, or potentially sell it to another group, 672 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 6: and then we do that. 673 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: But you in malls, at least as far as I broad, 674 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: you haven't been focused on the higher end properties. 675 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 5: Right. 676 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: It seems like you have a slightly different strategy in 677 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: New York office than you do in your big mall business. 678 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 8: So in. 679 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 6: The mall business, again, when we started back in twenty twelve, 680 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 6: we didn't know much about it. We were buying the 681 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 6: c's ent ds as it categorized it. But I would 682 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 6: say in the last four or five years, our strength 683 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 6: is really B market. 684 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 3: A malls are just overpriced. 685 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 9: And it's just it's just not what we do. 686 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 6: But our focus is more towards that B. Maybe maybe 687 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 6: it's the best mall in in a smaller market. Maybe 688 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 6: it's just you know, second mall in town. But we 689 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 6: look at their sales and the health ratios of tenants, 690 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 6: and we look at occupancy and kind of project out. 691 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 6: You know, we want to buy assets that we feel 692 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 6: have a longer, long term, you know, potential for to 693 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 6: stay at some wall. 694 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: All right, well, we're gonna talk to you on Bloomberg 695 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: TV in just about an hour's time, so I'm really 696 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: looking forward to that. 697 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 5: Appreciate you coming in. And Abigail do a little as well. 698 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: Abigail do little there, and Eagle Namdar, he's the founder 699 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: of the Namdar Realty Group, talking to us about New 700 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: York office. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. 701 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts 702 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm 703 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three. And I'm 704 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: Fall Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. 705 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,479 Speaker 2: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at 706 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio