1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I've never told you production if I 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 2: heart radio content. Warning, As the title suggests, we are 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 2: talking about layoffs and losing your job just not fun. 5 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: Have you ever been laid off or fired, Samantha. 6 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 3: Yes, I have rood of you to ask, but I'm 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 3: going to tell you anyway. But essentially, I think it 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 3: was more pragmatic and it was just the timing of everything. 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 3: But it did feel great. I did get unemployment though 10 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 3: for a while. Oh, that was an interesting process. 11 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: That's nice. You'll have to tell me because we are 12 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 2: going to talk about that briefly. Yeah, and here you'll 13 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: have to tell me about that. I have never been 14 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: laid off. I have lost a position before where they 15 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 2: were like, you're just not good at this, why don't 16 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 2: you do this? That's all right, you rearranged. I was rearranged. 17 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 2: I kind of feel like I was stell fired from 18 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: Longhorned Steakhouse, which I told that story before. 19 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: Like you didn't even make it though. 20 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: I both feel I was still fired, but also I 21 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: wasn't showing up, so there was no official process. We 22 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: just both kind of ghosted each other. 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying to think if I have ever had that. 24 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 3: I don't think so. I've always put in my notice 25 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 3: and left. 26 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 2: I had I've worked for a company that went I 27 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 2: don't think it went under, but something happened where within 28 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 2: the first week I didn't have a job. 29 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I didn't. 30 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 2: Feel like I was. It felt like that whole thing 31 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: just went away. So right, But I had to go 32 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: find another job quickly because I was in Europe and 33 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: I was anticipating That's why I was there, and I did. 34 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: I was very fortunate. Yes, we through the time I've 35 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: worked at this company, which long time. 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 3: Now, Yeah, I kind of forget you have other jobs, 37 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 3: You've ever had other jobs? Right? 38 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: It feels weird to me too to remember. We have 39 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 2: had rounds of layoffs and it is scary. We had 40 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: a pretty emotional one when I was an intern, where 41 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: like I was young and I didn't it was my 42 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: first time I think ever when at this particular instance, 43 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 2: they like sat us all in a room and told 44 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: us about it and that people were crying and like 45 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 2: people were packing up. 46 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 4: And oh my gosh, you feel like, well, it's just 47 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 4: a very destabilizing feeling. Yeah, And we recently had a 48 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 4: round of layoffs here and several of my friends were 49 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 4: laid off, so it is. 50 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: It's scary, and there have been there's been a lot 51 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: of stuff written about what's happening in the tech industry, 52 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: specifically with a lot of the layoffs that have it 53 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 2: kind of started in twenty twenty, but twenty twenty three 54 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 2: and twenty twenty four were a big year for le unfortunately, 55 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 2: and they impacted more women and marginalized folks, and we're 56 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: going to talk about that and why that is. I 57 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: would say you can check out our past episode spoiler 58 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 2: alert on pregnancy discrimination, our work from home episodes Women 59 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: and Unions perhaps, and the episode we did What's Happening 60 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: at Blizzard which we should update that one, oh my, 61 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: but okay, So yes, for this, we're specifically looking at 62 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: several rounds of tech and journalism layoffs that happened this 63 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: year and how they have disproportionately impacted women and people 64 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: of color and throughout the year this year being twenty 65 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: twenty four, we have seen several high pro file rounds 66 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 2: of layoffs and we're going to look at a few 67 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 2: examples that highlight some troubling trends. 68 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 3: Right and some baseline numbers to start off here. Since 69 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 3: the beginning of twenty twenty three, huge companies like Google, Meta, 70 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 3: and Amazon have laid off tens of thousands of their employees. 71 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 3: More recently, Tesla laid off fourteen thousand. The amount of 72 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 3: jobs lost in the tech sectors are estimated to be 73 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,799 Speaker 3: upwards of three hundred and forty thousand, and the number 74 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 3: has since grown yep. 75 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 2: In April of twenty twenty four, Tesla fired the five 76 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:36,119 Speaker 2: hundred ish members of their Supercharger team, including the top 77 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 2: woman manager, Rebecca Tanucci, who was the company's top female employee. 78 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: Allegedly Elon Musk, who if you somehow managed to avoid it, 79 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 2: in which case, congrats to your run. Tell us your 80 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: secret about that secret that's his company. He sent out 81 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 2: a questionnaire requiring managers to justify their human resources with 82 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 2: an email that contained the line, Hopefully these actions are 83 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 2: making it clear that we need to be absolutely hardcore 84 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 2: about headcount and cost reduction. Meanwhile, many industry journalists reported 85 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: that this action made no sense for the success of Tesla, 86 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 2: like that was a big project, it didn't make sense. 87 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: Another Elon Musk company, Twitter, slash X, also saw mass 88 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 2: layoffs fifty seven percent of those layoffs for women, and 89 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: that that company has embroiled in so many lawsuits and 90 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: some of them are about. 91 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 3: That right, just especially with the amount of money this 92 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 3: specific dude gets for doing nothing. 93 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: But riek havoc. 94 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 3: I mean, you got to say, probably tens of thousands 95 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 3: of jobs just by cutting your salary in half. Other 96 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 3: companies like Dell have been accused of stealth layoffs targeting women. 97 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 3: With their return to office policies in early twenty twenty four, 98 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: they gave their employees two options, a hybrid option of 99 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 3: coming into the office and working remotely or continuing to 100 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 3: work completely remotely. However, choosing that option came with penalties, 101 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 3: so one of them were quote no funding for team 102 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 3: on site meetings, even if a large portion of the 103 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 3: team is flying in for a meeting from other Dell locations, 104 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 3: no career advancement, no career movements, and remote status will 105 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 3: be considered when planning or organization changes aka workforce reductions. 106 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,559 Speaker 2: Yes, and according to one employee interviewed, if someone got 107 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 2: promotion while working remotely, it required them to come in 108 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 2: thirty nine days every quarter to accept it and just 109 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 2: a note. Dell wasn't even necessarily providing these offices or 110 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: they didn't have enough space, I guess, and working remotely 111 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: was and had been a part of their hiring policy. 112 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 2: It was how they hired a lot of people who 113 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: were like I just want to work remote, and they're like, 114 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 2: we got you. We're a cool company, and that's great. 115 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: For a con for the cool mobs. 116 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, they kind of. They were all about it. 117 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 3: And which is what tech does I feel like? And 118 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 3: Dell is such like the boomer of tech company. Let's 119 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 3: just be really honest. It's like they're like, look, look, 120 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: we're cool. Not only can you work from home, but 121 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 3: yes we originated with the open spaces and unlimited PTO 122 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 3: which you really can't take, and snacks. 123 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: And maybe a cool conctart here and there. 124 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we're gonna in a second. But yes, this 125 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 2: is pretty It's pretty ridiculous though, because this is from 126 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: the standards you were reading, Samantha. Those that was from 127 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 2: like an official Dell email and to say like, well, 128 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 2: you better come in or you're not going to get 129 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: any career advance meant and you're going to be the 130 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 2: first we consider when we're thinking about cutting our workforce. 131 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: And as we did discuss in our women working remotely episode, 132 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: it does benefit a lot of women, especially if there's 133 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 2: childcare involves. I mean, obviously that still sucks if you 134 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: have to work while doing child care, but it is 135 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 2: a way that people were able to have these jobs 136 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 2: where maybe they couldn't before. Okay. In November of twenty 137 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 2: twenty three, a woman laid off from Octa in twenty 138 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 2: twenty filed a civil suit in San Francisco Superior Court. 139 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: She alleged that, along with other women, she came forward 140 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 2: with concerns about gender discrimination, and then after that her 141 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: reviews dropped drastically until she was eventually fired, and the 142 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 2: suit claimed that women experience quote severe bias and inequity. 143 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: The lawsuit read, like other women, missus Ho was encouraged 144 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: to speak up and was told that this is a 145 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 2: safe place to tell all, but it was a big trap. 146 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: Once she found encouraged to speak she was retaliated against. 147 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 2: And that's in the larger conversation about retaliation that we're 148 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 2: not necessarily getting in to today, but that is part 149 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 2: of this will. A lot of what we are talking 150 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: about is tech specific. Journalism also has been really impacted 151 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: and in a lot of ways, a lot of that 152 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 2: industry has become a tech industry. In early twenty twenty four, 153 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: a wave of layoffs hit the journalism industry, and people 154 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: raise the alarm that a lot of them hit women 155 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: and people of color, and how that was going to 156 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: negatively impact the landscape of our news and information, what's 157 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 2: being reported on, how it's being written. According to the 158 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: Coalition for Women in Journalism, they reported that there were 159 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: seventeen thousand layoffs in this space in twenty twenty three. 160 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: Entertainment companies like Netflix and Disney also have similar conversations 161 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 2: to be had, but those are very different episode. Also, 162 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: this is not at all just a US problem, but 163 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 2: we are talking mainly about US based companies today, and 164 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 2: a lot of those companies were so big, people a 165 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: little all over the world worked for them so and 166 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: a lot of this has been underscored by the fact 167 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 2: that when many of these companies were just getting started, 168 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,719 Speaker 2: they were mostly run and staffed by white men. As 169 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 2: more attention landed on that point, as more people were like, hey, 170 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 2: it's the calls for change grew, these companies made bold 171 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 2: promises of being more inclusive in their hiring practices in 172 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 2: the twenty tens, especially as they got bigger and made 173 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 2: more money and became more structured in corporate but a 174 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 2: lot of them were still really famous for the yeah, 175 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 2: the thinking outside the box in terms of office life, 176 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 2: of like happy hours and gaming areas and bowling alleys 177 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 2: and movie theaters, all of that stuff that in a 178 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 2: lot of ways didn't suit women, especially if they had kids, 179 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 2: but even things like feeling safe with your employees or 180 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: employers after hours or getting home late. And that's what 181 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,599 Speaker 2: we talked about in the Blizzard episode, kind of the 182 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 2: different between a woman going to a conference and having 183 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: a drink versus a man doing it, and how it 184 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: can look really gross in office space. On top of that, 185 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 2: a lot of companies supported and encouraged people moving during 186 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 2: the pandemic, and we've discussed it before, but those policies 187 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 2: again did benefit a lot of women and marginalized people. 188 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 2: So one of the things that can get kind of 189 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 2: lost is that some of the numbers indicate more men 190 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 2: were laid off in these cases percentage wise, but the 191 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: key thing is women often represent less percentage wise than 192 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 2: the workforce. So, for instance, in one analysis of three 193 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 2: four hundred people laid off, fifty five percent were men, 194 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: forty five percent were women. However, women only made up 195 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 2: thirty nine percent of the total workforce, so it impacted 196 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: them far more. Some estimates put the number of women 197 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 2: laid off as higher and the women in the industry 198 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 2: also as lower. 199 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 3: So a piece of this is that women are more 200 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 3: likely to get hired in positions that are more easily 201 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 3: cut at least to the higher ups like customer service 202 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 3: or HR. When it comes to seniority too, men are 203 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 3: more likely to have been there longer. This isn't even 204 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 3: touching on women or marginalized folks who left because of 205 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 3: burnout or harassment. 206 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 2: Other episodes we've done, Yes yep. Studies show that women 207 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 2: are less financially prepared for layoffs than men, and this 208 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: could be because of a lot of things like the 209 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 2: ginger wage gap, pink techs, all kinds of stuff. Women 210 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: who relocate for their spouses, especially in the military, are 211 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 2: disproportionately impacted too, and this brings us to the pregnancy 212 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 2: discrimination part. In the wake of the tech layoffs that 213 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: happened in May of twenty twenty four, a disturbing number 214 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 2: of accounts about pregnant folks people with postpartum or on 215 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 2: parental leave came out about them being a large percentage 216 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 2: or significant percentage of the ones that were cut in 217 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 2: terms of the number that they represented. Lawyers reported receiving 218 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 2: calls about pregnancy discrimination across the country. However, there just 219 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: aren't safeguards in place specifically protecting pregnant folks or people 220 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: on parental leave under the grounds of business necessities. The 221 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 2: discrimination is difficult to prove in the face of mass 222 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 2: layoffs too. But the thing is, like a lot of 223 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: these big companies use their parental leave plans to attract 224 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: new employees too, especially women. But in these recent waves 225 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 2: of layoffs, a lot of the people who were laid 226 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 2: off were women, especially women on leave, So it doesn't 227 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 2: seem to be matching up, right. 228 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 3: And that's not even the conversation about like FLSA and 229 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 3: what you have to do to qualify for that, and 230 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 3: how to get through with that, and how to be 231 00:13:54,200 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 3: fired before getting with that. So it's really scary to 232 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 3: lose your job at any time, but especially when you've 233 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 3: had a big life change like having a kid, that 234 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 3: is going to put more financial pressure on you and 235 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 3: your family. On top of that, if you have a 236 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 3: baby and no access to childcare, is going to be difficult, 237 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 3: if not impossible, to get a new job for at 238 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 3: least a little while. 239 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 2: Yes, and so this also goes back to a point 240 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 2: we've discussed before, but a lot of these companies just 241 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 2: put into place these diversity equity inclusion DEI initiatives around 242 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 2: women and people of color and LGBTQ plus people and 243 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 2: people with disabilities, but without really making any change to 244 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 2: how the company functioned to make those things work. Look, 245 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 2: they didn't think it out beyond just saying, yeah, we're 246 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: going to do this, or to account for the reality 247 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 2: of what being truly inclusive would mean. So we've also 248 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 2: seen a lot of companies doing away with those initiatives entirely. 249 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: In recent years. It's become something of a controversial issue 250 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 2: in our political landscape. 251 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 3: That's literally a platform like that people are using to 252 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 3: be like I should be your governor, your congressman, your 253 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 3: board of directors, whatever, Like it's absurd, like I will 254 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 3: get rid of DEI. We need to come back and 255 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 3: talk about the fact that the damn Asian person who 256 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 3: was puppet essentially coming after DEI initiatives and inclusivity initiatives 257 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 3: for higher education, and now the number of Asian students 258 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 3: being accepted has lowered, no other numbers, just the Asians. 259 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, that's what you get. 260 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And there's a lot. There's a lot going 261 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 2: on with this because it really does feel to me 262 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 2: that well, I mean, number one obviously most obviously their companies, 263 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: and they want to make money and they thought like 264 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 2: saying these things would make them money. 265 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 3: And they still do even during this time when it 266 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 3: like when it benefits them aka the Pride parades, they're like, 267 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 3: we're going to be in here even though we've already 268 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 3: backtracked in all of these policies. 269 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 2: Right, And it's like the second that it becomes oh 270 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 2: they're striking or oh they're doing this, we don't need this, 271 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 2: and it's just like they're just saying it to get 272 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: the points and then not doing anything about it. But 273 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: I also truly do think they didn't even think it 274 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 2: through about how this would work or look, or they 275 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 2: didn't want to mess up with their their boys club, 276 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 2: bowling alleys or whatever. 277 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: Right they're happy hours. 278 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. And there are a couple of like 279 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: key things people have written about we've oken about on 280 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 2: the show. One is the importance of mentors in spaces 281 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 2: like this, but if all the mentors are white men, 282 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 2: doesn't really work. And then there is the myth of 283 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 2: the white male genius who is so can never make 284 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 2: a mistake, is like the god of whatever company. Uh. 285 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 2: And then so even when they clearly do make mistake, 286 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 2: they are never face these consequences, but everyone else who 287 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 2: is not there does, right, I mean President again? Yeah, yeah, 288 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 2: I laugh because I'm miserable. There's also going back to 289 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 2: what you kind of mentioned Smith, that there's this this 290 00:17:52,800 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 2: return that we're seeing happen to hardcore bro culture. And 291 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: so Elon Musk is a great example because when he 292 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 2: took over Twitter, he was like boasting about you're going 293 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 2: to sleep at work, You're gonna be working all the time. 294 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 2: You're like all of these things, as if this is 295 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,719 Speaker 2: a good thing. Right, But that is that was the 296 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 2: myth of a lot of these companies that started to startups, 297 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: was like you lived there, That's yeah, that's how it worked. 298 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 2: But it's strange because that company was successful. 299 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 3: But you start looking at the companies that have this 300 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 3: these thought processes. They made a whole freaking movie on 301 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 3: Facebook alone, and you realize the majority of the success 302 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 3: comes from stealing things from people. Yeah, more than like 303 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 3: not a napster, all of those things. You're like, wait, 304 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 3: these boys are not geniuses. They just know how to 305 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 3: get away with stealing exactly exactly. 306 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 2: Are taking credit? Yeah, just taking credit for other people's work. 307 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 3: Right, and Elon Musk Bezos is the same thing. And 308 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 3: then I know you're about to get into it, but 309 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 3: it's amazing this whole mentality like you have to dedicate 310 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 3: your life for a company, but we're not going to 311 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 3: reward you obviously, And like even the fact that Amazon 312 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 3: had that whole day they could not go take bathroom breaks, 313 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 3: so they were peeing in bottles, and of course women 314 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 3: can't freaking do that really at all. And they have 315 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 3: this mentality that if you leave that station and you 316 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 3: are stealing time, stealing time from work, yeah, which is absurd, 317 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 3: being paid for not working. You're like, that's not how 318 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 3: this works. And we're backtracking on all these things that 319 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 3: were protected so that people could have access to be human, 320 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 3: right in this whole culture of like, no, but if 321 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 3: you really care about making money, if you really want. 322 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: To be successful. This is what you. 323 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 2: Do right, right, and if you can't, if you can't 324 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 2: hack it, then get it. 325 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 3: Then you're going to be fired and will replace you. 326 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 3: You're easily replaceable. 327 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly, And it's just is bizarre also because of 328 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 2: course they try to paint it as if you were 329 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:14,719 Speaker 2: being weak when you're like, really, you think people just 330 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 2: want to sleep at work. 331 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 3: Or right like you, you think that this is a 332 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 3: thing that they like. Being human once again is a 333 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 3: detriment like eating, right, I'm sorry, we are hungry. You 334 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 3: cannot live that way. We've had people die recently, a 335 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 3: couple of incidences at work, and no one found them 336 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 3: because they did not care about these people. 337 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:45,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the thing is like, you know, Elon 338 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 2: Musk is going to be fine, essentially, like even. 339 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 3: With the millions that he's gonna be sued. He may 340 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 3: be sued, he may go to courts and may even 341 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 3: go to jail, He'll still be fine. 342 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: He'll be fine. And so he's just asking his employees 343 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 2: to fix something he broke and bruin your life while 344 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 2: doing it. 345 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: He's broken in so many times. 346 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 3: Can we talk about how moody his whole thing is 347 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 3: like the whole new block thing is rumored that because 348 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 3: he didn't want he wanted his ex wife's access to 349 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 3: hit her account and if she blocked him, and so 350 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 3: the reason that they changed that up recently is so 351 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 3: that he could still access her stuff. 352 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 2: That's the rumor, isn't that. Like that comes up an 353 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 2: embarrassing about for you white male geniuses, is that it 354 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 2: was a woman that hurt you somewhere else, and. 355 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 3: So therefore he has to do all these things in retaliation. 356 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 3: I'm like, how petty he's gonna be. And You're like, 357 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 3: so you changed the whole blocking access, which did not 358 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 3: that's the one thing that didn't really need to be 359 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 3: fixed because you were upset that you could not see. 360 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: Your ex wife's content. 361 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 3: Really again, rumors not, Yes, it would not surprise me, 362 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 3: but I'm like, it's really coincidental. 363 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 2: It would not surprise me at all. But I mean, also, 364 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 2: I want to come back and do an episode on this. 365 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: But when I say like the return to this hardcore 366 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 2: bro culture, it's happening online as well, and it's happening 367 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 2: in a lot of spaces that some of them we've 368 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 2: touched on. I've seen some around the world that are happening. 369 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 2: But a part of it is because of this, because 370 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 2: of people like Elon Musk who come in and do 371 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 2: all these terrible things, fire all the people of color, 372 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: fire all the women. And so the technology that is 373 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 2: people are using is really boosting that content and it's 374 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 2: been sadly effective in a lot of ways. But yeah, 375 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,479 Speaker 2: that kind of we were we got away from it 376 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 2: for a minute. But then I also have reading a 377 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 2: very depressing article about this. But essentially it kind of 378 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 2: snapped backwards in the way so many of these things 379 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 2: often do, uh for for a lot a lot of reasons. 380 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 3: But well, I think I wonder if it just looked 381 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 3: that way once again. It was just a pay perspective, 382 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 3: because when we talked about the Google creator and content 383 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 3: developer and the things that she went through, she was like, a, 384 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 3: this AI stuff is not going to go well, who's 385 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 3: going to be racist? And we should not be doing 386 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 3: any of these things. And she immediately got fired and 387 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 3: everybody's et cetera. Like it was always there, but it 388 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 3: was better hidden and now just people just don't care anymore, 389 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 3: especially with the fact that the government allows so much 390 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 3: leeway for tech companies to do whatever the hell they want, 391 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 3: which is a whole different conversation that we've repeatedly have 392 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 3: had to have, and no one's really. 393 00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: Talking about these issues. 394 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 3: Like I've really upset and concerned that we are again 395 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 3: abortion is a huge issue. 396 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about that. Queer 397 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: rights huge issues. 398 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 3: But all these things are happening, but we're like, what 399 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 3: about the underlying things that we need to talk about 400 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 3: with each one of these Congress people, which a few 401 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 3: people have brought up, including John Ossoft being like, ay, 402 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 3: so we should not allow government officials to be a 403 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 3: part of the stocks, but that should not be able 404 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 3: to practice in trading because there's some really shady stuff happening, 405 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 3: and I completely agree with that on both sides. This 406 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 3: is where I'm like, this whole system is corrupt, So 407 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 3: I have a whole like, ah, yes, I am far 408 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 3: leading left and I am losing it, like I am 409 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 3: going faster on that track because we are seeing like 410 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 3: even the people that we were supposed to trust and 411 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 3: that we put on pedestals and we're so proud of 412 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 3: calling our representatives or at least like representatives in the states, like, oh, 413 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 3: but you just made tons of money on this one 414 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 3: thing that really hurts the American people. And you know this, 415 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 3: that's why like fracking and those issues are such a 416 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 3: hug just because you are putting money and banking on 417 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 3: how much money you're going to make and using your policies. 418 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 3: So all these conversations that this is a huge thing 419 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 3: we should be looking at, but we haven't really even 420 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 3: considered at all. And I say we, including myself, because 421 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 3: we have to look at the bigger, huge victor first, 422 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 3: the save democracy. Second, yeah, we'll come back to the 423 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 3: big issues with like the constitutional stuff at the Supreme Court, 424 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 3: and then thirdly we'll come to these other things of 425 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 3: like why are they doing this and whose interest this 426 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 3: is for? 427 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the thing too, is like a lot 428 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 2: of these big companies they do get occasionally, they do 429 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 2: get fined, but for them it's nothing like it's. 430 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 3: It's better to be fined than to correct something and 431 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 3: do something that's great for the people. 432 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: Like that's right. 433 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 3: This is the biggest concern is like even with the 434 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 3: small companies that had good intent, they've grown into such 435 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 3: big companies that have been taken over and or that 436 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 3: have made enough money that they're like I don't care anymore. 437 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: This is that makes me sad. 438 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 3: But the fact that all of these things are happening 439 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 3: and these big tech companies do not care. They would 440 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 3: rather have a fine and have a whole like smear 441 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 3: campaign about the fact that they are sexist and racist 442 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 3: and like all of like anti LGBT, like all of 443 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 3: those things that homophobic is hell, they don't care because 444 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 3: it still makes the money and it doesn't do it 445 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 3: much like because the governments and or policies have held 446 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 3: them up and being like, yeah, but you can still 447 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 3: do that. That's racist, but it probably helps us in 448 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 3: the end and we can we can make good, better jobs, bigger, more. 449 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: Jobs, and events, which is not true. 450 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 3: But like all of these conversations that I'm like, yeah, 451 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 3: that's part of the big problem is that these companies 452 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 3: will never change because they're never ever and they're also 453 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 3: not taxed correctly. 454 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, well that's the whole secret. 455 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 3: I know. 456 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: I'm opening up both all these doors. 457 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 3: But like when we see these conversations, these layoffs why 458 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 3: they don't care and they put on like the the 459 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 3: lips on the pig type of conversation is literally like 460 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 3: that's what they do and knowing that they'll just talk 461 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 3: about the nice company that does it, yeah, and we'll 462 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 3: be lumped in here, but they'll they'll forget gus. There's 463 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 3: so many of us and they can't do anything to 464 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 3: all of us because the policies protect us. 465 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 2: Right, right, And it does, I mean so many there's 466 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 2: so many things in place like this, coming back to 467 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 2: coming back to the office and coming back to the 468 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 2: like hardcore pro culture. I mean it does. These models, 469 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 2: So many of these models, even with the like oh 470 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 2: now we're open space, do favor men. They were designed 471 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 2: with men and mine, right, And so having this idea 472 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 2: of like coming into the office that's better. It shows 473 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 2: that you like, really care and like even if they won't, 474 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 2: they'll tell you, well, it won't penalize you, but if 475 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 2: you don't come in, they do, even if it's not purposeful, 476 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: even if it's like just in the back of someone subconscious. 477 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 3: Right, the more you're seeing, the more you're likely to 478 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 3: be remembered. It's kind of that conversation too, But I 479 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 3: find it interesting. I'm going to go back to our 480 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 3: own experience. The last time we were in the studio 481 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 3: and we had Maya, our executive producer who was a powerhouse. 482 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 3: I didn't know, like, I didn't know how strong she 483 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 3: really was. So I'm willing to stand up for like 484 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 3: what she felt was a wrong. But the fact is, 485 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 3: have we not? We were being pushed over for men 486 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 3: like it was some interesting how quickly people wanted to 487 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 3: side with a bigger name, any of those like on 488 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 3: there's two separate sides. There's a radio side and there 489 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 3: is a podcast side. This was one of the things 490 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,959 Speaker 3: that came together during the pandemic in hopes that they 491 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 3: could save money. Ab they're being like, we're gonna be 492 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 3: working from home anyway, so it's fine. Even though then 493 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 3: they started being like, come back into work. We were 494 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 3: like why, but then like, we did come back to work, 495 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 3: and the moment we did, we were like being pushed 496 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 3: as a secondary in comparison to a bigger, like male 497 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 3: group of broadcasters. It wasn't their fault, but everything they 498 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 3: were doing was literally like, no, but but we were 499 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 3: more important. Oh no, but yeah, we have a system 500 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 3: where it's set ups that you have to sign things 501 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 3: up on, like a whole big calendar. But that's that 502 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 3: doesn't matter unless because we. 503 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: Are more important. 504 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 3: It was a whole different, like and I feel like 505 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 3: most of that and this is again on us, but 506 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 3: at the same time on society, where we were like, oh, okay, okay, 507 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 3: we don't want to cause conflict, We'll move okay, okay, 508 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 3: but Maa being like, oh hell no, no, no, I 509 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 3: will fight with you. 510 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: I will fight with the heads in here. 511 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 3: Let's go, And she made sure to get put that 512 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 3: respect and she's like we being like, you are disrespecting us, 513 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 3: and she never really says that. She was just like, 514 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 3: this is absurd, this is not how it goes. We 515 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 3: need to set a boundary. And I was like, heal, okay, 516 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 3: because in it, like societally, we would have just moved on, 517 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 3: like that was what we have always been told. 518 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: Even in the old office. There's moments we were like, 519 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: why is this happening? 520 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 3: We have to shrink and people wonder why, And then 521 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 3: when we did and I was like, they impressive, Like 522 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 3: everything worked out. But it just feels like that type 523 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 3: of culture is what we have seen so often. Yeah, 524 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 3: in like the likes of any social like any space. 525 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 3: And I'm not saying anything bad about our company necessarily 526 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 3: in this in this specific moment, but like things like 527 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 3: this have continued to happen in the office to the 528 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 3: point that this is why Maya was like, I'm done, 529 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 3: I'm done well, and. 530 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 2: It's like this was a very particular instance. But in 531 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 2: this instance, uh, everyone involved had done everything right, everything correctly. 532 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 2: We have had the space, many of the other most 533 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,479 Speaker 2: of the other studios were open, so it was it 534 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 2: wasn't it was odd. It was odd. A lot of 535 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 2: threads here, obviously, but I'm glad. I'm so glad Maya 536 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 2: stood up and before it worked out fine, but it 537 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 2: took time out of our day and I ended up 538 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: getting home I think three hours later. Then I had 539 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 2: planned right, and that was unnecessary. It was unnecessary. 540 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 5: It was a waste of time, right, and honestly, like 541 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 5: in this like scope of what we was but it 542 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 5: just so the bottom line on this was like it 543 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 5: feels like a standard because we've had this done to 544 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 5: us a few times the few times that we were 545 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 5: in the studio. 546 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 3: We've had this done multiple times where we were like, eh, 547 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 3: scooch over sorry, and that's that expectations. And typically it 548 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 3: has always been men who overtake our studio. 549 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: Am I wrong? Every time? 550 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 3: I remember those situations always been dudes, yeah, because they yeah, 551 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 3: they feel like this is a this is a standard, 552 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 3: I can do this, we can do this, and it's 553 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 3: kind of a and even even when we had been like, hey, 554 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 3: this is an issue, they'd be likeugh, just comply for 555 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 3: now and we'll fix this later, which again teaches us 556 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 3: and them nothing's going to be done. And I think 557 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 3: this is where this is the first time again why 558 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 3: we saw Maya being like nah, I'm over this, and 559 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 3: which again I was so thoroughly impressed that I was like, oh, 560 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 3: because this is the first time we've seen it from 561 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 3: someone who was in charge of our our time in 562 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 3: studios place, So it was impressive for that matter, But 563 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 3: also this has been It wasn't a big deal, but 564 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 3: it is the bigger scope of things of like why 565 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 3: is this a standard? 566 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: And y'all think this is okay? And then y'all want 567 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: us to. 568 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 3: Be in here and talking about being empowered and acting 569 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 3: like this is a safe work space when you obviously 570 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 3: show how little we mean as a part of this 571 00:32:53,760 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 3: family company. 572 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 2: When I was thinking about this topic of running through 573 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 2: my head, I also I wanted to do an episode 574 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 2: on the origins of the phrase go back to the 575 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 2: kitchen because I've just seen it. It's it's so it's everywhere, 576 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 2: and it's been everywhere. It's like one of the first 577 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 2: things usually men will say to a woman who's they 578 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 2: don't agree with. And I was just like thinking about that, 579 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 2: and I still I feel like that can kind of 580 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 2: translate here where it is still seen as like, well, 581 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 2: they can they don't have to be here, they can 582 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 2: go back home, they to go do that as people 583 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 2: are expendable, right, Like that idea just permeated, And I 584 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 2: was also thinking about a lot of the invisible work 585 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 2: people do women do usually, and we've done episodes on 586 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 2: and on like the whole spectrum of it. But like, 587 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 2: as a single woman, you can get asked to do 588 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 2: a lot of the parties, the planning, all of these 589 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 2: events that you don't get paid for, really don't get 590 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 2: recognized for because you don't have kids, so what are 591 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 2: you doing? But then on the other side, people with 592 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 2: kids being penalized because they have kids, right and they 593 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 2: have to go home. So it's just sort of all 594 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 2: of these expectations are punishments that are just there, even 595 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: if they're not writing, they are there. 596 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 3: Right, And the extra amount of work that is expected. Again, 597 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 3: planning a party is a pretty significant deal when you're 598 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 3: having a giant group of people. To be fair, I 599 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 3: think like people have realized this is yeah, an ordeal 600 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 3: for the most part, especially when people don't knew it. 601 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 3: They're like, no, I'm not doing this anymore. 602 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. 603 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think that that conversation is like the 604 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 3: whole women in layoffs and then really figuring it out 605 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 3: to the they're expendable. We can easily replace them, we 606 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 3: could all these conversations and putting again, putting them at 607 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,359 Speaker 3: positions that are replaceable in their minds, whether or not 608 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 3: they understand how big of a conversation like no, they're 609 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 3: not as expendable as you think, right, but especially when 610 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 3: they put the load that they do on most of 611 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 3: these types of positions that they think is so manial 612 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 3: in their bigger scheme of conversations when like I know, 613 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 3: the saying goes is essentially you rise up to do 614 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 3: less work, like if you don't, if you actually want 615 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 3: to not have to do much, get a promotion type 616 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 3: of thing and people will do the work for you. 617 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: And I think that's what we see, which. 618 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 3: Is why again, like women are at the forefront of 619 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 3: being laid off and or excuse like again the pregnancy, 620 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 3: which blows my mind in every respect. I'm like, I 621 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 3: just I don't understand why that's the qualifier. Just okay, whatever, 622 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 3: There's so many things in this conversation that needs to 623 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 3: be again readdressed. But yeah, as I am going on 624 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 3: my high rate of like, it doesn't change much. The 625 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 3: culture of business who says they're trying to appreciate the 626 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 3: marginalized people are the same people who are like, yeah, 627 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 3: but you need to be able to be shrunk, you 628 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,720 Speaker 3: need to be smaller so we can exist as an 629 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 3: peaceful office. Like you need to make peace, you need 630 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 3: to be okay and don't make any waves here. And 631 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 3: it's such an interesting thing in that same way, but 632 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 3: like they're willing to get rid. 633 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: Of those people. Well probably the peace keepers of the office. 634 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,919 Speaker 2: Probably and are most likely doing a lot more work 635 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 2: than you're I'm realizing right. Also, this whole conversation has 636 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 2: also brought up conversation around things like just cause, So 637 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 2: that means that they have to Companies legally have to 638 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 2: give you a reason why you're fired, not always you 639 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 2: have to fight for that. In some cases, but in 640 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 2: layoffs it's a kind of ambiguous space. So, like I said, 641 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 2: some of this is that's why it's been so hard 642 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 2: to prove as you can. It's difficult. Also, severance policies 643 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 2: that that's come under come to light and discussion has 644 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 2: been had about that and how good are bad they are. 645 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 2: But I didn't want to ask you how So you've 646 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 2: got some unemployment. 647 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 3: I did, and the amount I don't think unemployment has 648 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 3: gone up either since I've had unemployment, and that was 649 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 3: fourteen years ago. I think the amount State of Georgia 650 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 3: has made the same because that y'all, it doesn't it's 651 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 3: not much. And what sucks is its tax It is 652 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 3: taxed awfully. Yeah, So essentially a weekly benefits for the 653 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 3: State of Georgia goes from fifty five dollars to three 654 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 3: hundred and sixty five dollars a week, but it is taxed, 655 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 3: so one third of it is gone. So essentially you 656 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 3: may be able to get twelve hundred dollars a month. 657 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 3: Can you imagine living off the end if you get 658 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 3: a part time job that goes away, right, you cannot 659 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 3: make money and you have to show every week that 660 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 3: you are trying to find the job, the amount of 661 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 3: things that you have to do to get unemployment and 662 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 3: you can easily be removed, the amount of taxes that 663 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 3: you have to pay because you can choose not to 664 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 3: have a tax at the beginning and then at the end. 665 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: Man, that hurt me. 666 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, it hurt me a lot. I was trying to 667 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 3: find the job. This is what I just turned thirty. 668 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 3: Everything felt like the worst, and I was trying my 669 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 3: damnness and like trying to find a job and trying 670 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 3: to get back into social work all these things. But 671 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 3: the fact that it has not changed, yeah, in that 672 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:09,760 Speaker 3: long of a period, that's the most absurd. Yeah. 673 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean the thing is like if a company, 674 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,399 Speaker 2: companies don't have to offer severance policies, and even even 675 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 2: if they do, if they can find a way to say, 676 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 2: like they had just cost, they had a reason to 677 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 2: fire you, right, they don't have to give it to you. 678 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 3: And unemployment is also contingent on that. If they had 679 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 3: just cause and you got fired and it's your fault 680 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 3: if you quit any of those things, you don't get unemployment. Yeah, 681 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 3: And a job can fight against you, yes, to not 682 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,319 Speaker 3: get unemployment because it comes from their taxes, brakes, So 683 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 3: it's so. 684 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 2: Gross, it is. And then again going back to so 685 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 2: many of these things, but especially with women who might 686 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 2: have children or people who might have children, like finding 687 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 2: a job and it's not easy. Finding one where you 688 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,720 Speaker 2: can maybe have flexible hours or work from home also 689 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 2: not easy. So it is a huge tax on women 690 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 2: and people of color. And then yeah, it's just hard 691 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 2: to find a job. And you know, you might have 692 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,840 Speaker 2: really cared about your job and so you don't quite 693 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,280 Speaker 2: feel like just moving on, or maybe you're a little depressed. Right, 694 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 2: there's a lot going on where twelve hundred dollars a 695 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 2: month is not gonna right. 696 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 3: Get it Also just that conversation of the fact that 697 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 3: you have to give a reason as to why you're 698 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:45,399 Speaker 3: laid off. 699 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: Hopefully that you're like, oh, it was just a mass decision, 700 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:49,800 Speaker 1: Da da da. 701 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 3: But we know a lot of these companies have become 702 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,800 Speaker 3: vindictive and say they're laying off based on performance. That's true, 703 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 3: and that in itself is like a mark on many 704 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:02,959 Speaker 3: of those people who are being laid off. 705 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: And then some who are vindictive. 706 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 3: And give bad recommendations, which by the way, is illegal technically. 707 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 2: Well weirdly. Yeah, yeah, it's a mess. Obviously, there's a 708 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 2: lot of other paths we could go down with this one, 709 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 2: but oh. 710 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 3: God, yeah, I'm thinking about the fact that if there's 711 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 3: a gap in your resume they get they see that 712 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 3: as a negative. So if you're just off because you 713 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 3: were with your child, they see that as a negative. 714 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 1: There's so many bad things there. 715 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:46,280 Speaker 2: I'm sorry there are. It's warranted. It's warranted. But yeah, uh, listeners, 716 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,879 Speaker 2: if you have any thoughts on this, if you were 717 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 2: I know some of you were impacted I think by 718 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 2: some of the twenty twenty three layoffs, please let us 719 00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 2: know and hope we hope you're all doing okay whatever's 720 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 2: going on in your life. You can contact us in 721 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 2: many ways. You can email us at Stephania, mom stuff 722 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,279 Speaker 2: atiheartmedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at 723 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 2: mom stuff Podcasts, or instagrament TikTok at stuff one never 724 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 2: told you you guys have a t public story and 725 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 2: we have a book you can get wherever you get 726 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 2: your recks. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, 727 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 2: our executive producer, My hand or contributor Joey, Thank you, 728 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 2: and thanks to you for listening Steffan Never told you 729 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 2: the production by heart Radio from more podcast from My 730 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 2: heart Radio. You can check out the heart Radio app, 731 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,799 Speaker 2: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.