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Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. Happy Saturday to you if you're

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Speaker 1: listening on Saturday. We started something I don't know. It

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Speaker 1: must have been about a year ago, for a moment

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Speaker 1: where we were getting so many emails from listeners who said,

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Speaker 1: I wish y'all were on on the weekends, and I

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Speaker 1: realized that we have become for many folks kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe like how you go for a drive

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Speaker 1: in your truck and your dog hops up in there

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Speaker 1: in the passenger seat with you, or Papaul, you know,

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Speaker 1: he can't wait for his grandkids to come because they

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Speaker 1: ride on the side by side out all over the pasture.

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Speaker 1: We have become like that to a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: a friend, an accompaniment, a whatever you want to call it,

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Speaker 1: and so on Saturdays they would get used to. We

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Speaker 1: used to do a Saturday and a Sunday podcast, but

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Speaker 1: that became too much. So what we decided to do was,

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Speaker 1: especially for our podcast listeners who stay up to date

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Speaker 1: on the podcast as the week is going by, we

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Speaker 1: decided to start adding some Saturday content and what it

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Speaker 1: allowed us to do was things that we personally enjoy

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Speaker 1: that are too long to play on the air.

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Speaker 2: Podcast is a perfect.

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Speaker 1: Long form format where we can share things with our

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Speaker 1: listeners with you that we think are important that we

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Speaker 1: wouldn't otherwise get to, and that might be a speech

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Speaker 1: by Thomas Soul or Milton Friedman, or an interview, or

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Speaker 1: any number of other things. Hillsdale College does incredible work.

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Speaker 1: I hope they're going to be a sponsor of the show.

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Speaker 1: I have heard from our folks at Premiere that they may.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true or not. I hope

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Speaker 1: they are because I think they do wonderful, wonderful work,

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Speaker 1: incredible work, and I would love to encourage our.

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Speaker 3: Listeners to support them.

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Speaker 1: Hillsdale College had a panel discussion. Hillsdale College is in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: Assume most of you know that because Rush used to

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Speaker 1: talk about them. They do lectures, interviews, panel discussions, and

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Speaker 1: today the panel discussion is on law fair and the

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Speaker 1: political prosecutions from the Biden regime, something we've talked a

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Speaker 1: lot about. This panel was held on September nineteenth, just

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Speaker 1: a few months ago, during a Hillsdale College Constitution Day celebration.

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Speaker 1: The panel included Ronald J. Pastrido, Chairman of Hillsdale College,

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Speaker 1: Peter Navarro, who many of you will know of former

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Speaker 1: assistant to President Trump, Bradley Smith Capital University Law School.

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Speaker 1: I think that's Catholic University. I think I wrote that

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Speaker 1: down and byron Yorke of The Washington Examiner. It's a

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Speaker 1: good writer, good thinker, and we hope you enjoy this

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Speaker 1: panel discussion as we did. We consume a lot of

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Speaker 1: content as well as creating a lot of content, and

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Speaker 1: I know many of you do as well. I want

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Speaker 1: to thank you if if you've ever shared our podcast

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Speaker 1: with even one person, because that's how we've grown from

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Speaker 1: the little podcast that could to a nationally syndicated show

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Speaker 1: and a pretty darn big audience of loyal podcast listeners,

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Speaker 1: which is cool because I get to hear from you,

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Speaker 1: and I'm always eager to hear from you. You can

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Speaker 1: go to our website, Michael Berryshow dot com and you

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Speaker 1: can says send Michael an email that comes directly to me.

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Speaker 1: Once the kids and my wife are put to bed

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Speaker 1: every night, I get that thing out and read during

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Speaker 1: the breaks sometimes of the show, when I have a moment,

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Speaker 1: when someone's late, when I'm early, whatever else.

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Speaker 2: I do read.

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Speaker 1: Every single email, and I do love to hear from

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Speaker 1: you now to the panel discussion.

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Speaker 2: Thank you everybody.

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Speaker 4: My name is R. J. Pastrido. I am dean of

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Speaker 4: the School of Statesmanship on the main campus at Hillsdale,

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Speaker 4: and I teach in the politics department. I'd like to

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Speaker 4: welcome you to our panel the second this morning's program

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Speaker 4: on law fair. If you're like me, prior to a

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Speaker 4: few years ago, you may not have been terribly familiar

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Speaker 4: with that term, but it's one that has been brought

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Speaker 4: into our lexicon by the self described defenders of democracy

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Speaker 4: that we have among us these days, who we know

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Speaker 4: are in fact very busily moving our country away from

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Speaker 4: what has been one of the most the most successful

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Speaker 4: democratic regime in the history of the world, very quickly

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Speaker 4: bringing it to the precipice of becoming a banana republic,

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Speaker 4: through a variety of tactics which are probably known to

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Speaker 4: everybody here. Trying to take one's opponent, the name of

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Speaker 4: one's opponent off the ballot, this kind of Soviet style,

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Speaker 4: inviting lunatics to attempt assassination of your opponent, pairing that

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Speaker 4: with an incredible amount of negligence to make that as

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Speaker 4: easy as possible, evidently engaging in a comprehensive campaign of censorship,

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Speaker 4: labeling any speech that opposes the regime, labeling it disinformation,

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Speaker 4: and going after it in various heavy handed ways. And then,

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Speaker 4: of course, more to the point of our piano here

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Speaker 4: this morning, the jail your opponent strategy, not only attempting

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Speaker 4: to jail the opponent himself, but anyone who might work

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Speaker 4: for the opponent, and even anyone who might.

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Speaker 3: Want to give legal representation.

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Speaker 4: To the opponent. And this is something that they wouldn't

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Speaker 4: dare deny the worst criminals that we have, but they're

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Speaker 4: engaging in it all the time. With the political opposition.

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Speaker 4: We have a very distinguished panel here this morning to

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Speaker 4: lead us through a discussion of this. We're going to

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Speaker 4: begin with Peter Navarro. He is one of only three

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Speaker 4: White House advisors to serve President Trump all the way

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Speaker 4: from the campaign through the end of his term. Mister

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Speaker 4: Navarro served as Manufacturing and Trades are as a labor negotiator.

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Speaker 4: He then, as I think probably everybody knows, spent four

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Speaker 4: months in a federal prison, and he did that in

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Speaker 4: defense of the constitutional separation of powers. His White House

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Speaker 4: memoirs include the best selling in Trump Time and also

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Speaker 4: Taking Back Trump's America and I want to also give

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Speaker 4: a plug for his latest book, which is called The

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Speaker 4: New Maga Deal, The Unofficial Deplorable's Guide to Donald Trump's

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty four policy Platine. Please welcome Peter Navorrow.

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Speaker 5: Good morning, Hey, just I want to do a plug

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Speaker 5: for Hillsdale first big fan, never visited, watched them from

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Speaker 5: Afar for a long time, and I got my doctorate

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Speaker 5: at Havid. But I'll tell you, if I had college

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Speaker 5: AD's children right now, I'd send them to Hillsdale before

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Speaker 5: i'd send them to Harvard. So thank you all for

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Speaker 5: your generosity, because we need this.

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Speaker 6: We need this.

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Speaker 5: When I walked into the White House in January twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 5: if I had encountered a gypsy.

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Speaker 6: On the way who read my palm.

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Speaker 5: And said, you're going to be speaking at Hillsdale College

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Speaker 5: event in September of twenty twenty four, I would have

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Speaker 5: thought that I might be speaking maybe about macroeconomic forecasting,

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Speaker 5: how's the economy going, Maybe about the state of the

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Speaker 5: trade deficit in trade relationship, maybe about how to crack

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Speaker 5: down a communists China. Never did I think i'd be

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Speaker 5: talking about what it's like to go to prison in

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Speaker 5: defense of the Constitution. That's where we are right now.

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Speaker 5: So let me talk a little bit about that. I

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Speaker 5: want to start off with a couple of quotations that

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Speaker 5: kind of set the stage for this Closswitch Prussian General.

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Speaker 5: War is politics by other means. War is politics by

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Speaker 5: other means. That's what lawfare is. Law fair is politics

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Speaker 5: by other means. And then you have the great art

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Speaker 5: of war, sun Zoo. The supreme art of war is

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Speaker 5: to win without firing a shot, without fighting. It's the

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Speaker 5: Chinese strategy that they're using on us now. But it's

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Speaker 5: also the Democrat lawfair strategy, because the modern version of

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Speaker 5: that is the supreme art of politics is to win

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Speaker 5: an election without having an election, or at least without

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Speaker 5: having your candidate that you want on the ballot to

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Speaker 5: fight their candidate. So is that that's the context, and

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Speaker 5: what we have here is a situation where the Democrat

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Speaker 5: have weaponized all three branches of government as well as

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Speaker 5: their own campaign mechanism in a way which has been

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Speaker 5: designed to keep Donald Trump in particular off the ballot

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Speaker 5: and keep advisors like me from serving him, and then

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Speaker 5: keep other people who might otherwise go into governments from

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Speaker 5: doing that. That's basically, it's very simple kind of agenda.

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Speaker 5: So you ask yourself how they go about that. If

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Speaker 5: you think about the trajectory of law fare, I think

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Speaker 5: it's fair to say that it began in earnest against

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump, before he even took office.

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Speaker 6: And I remember.

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Speaker 5: After election that transition time in Trump Tower, and one

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Speaker 5: of the great experiences I had was meeting General Mike Flynn,

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Speaker 5: and he was going to be the National Security Council,

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Speaker 5: national Security Advisor at the National Security Council, which is

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Speaker 5: I mean in the White House. That's one of the

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Speaker 5: most important elements of government. And we had great plans

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Speaker 5: to finally crack down on China's economic aggression, it's military aggression.

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Speaker 6: This, that, and the other thing.

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Speaker 5: And he had what amounted to a cup of coffee

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Speaker 5: in terms of working in the government before they took

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Speaker 5: him out early on. And it was a great loss,

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Speaker 5: not just because we didn't have mic in there, because

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Speaker 5: the next two guys were disasters and got us off mission,

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Speaker 5: off target and all of that. And so you saw

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Speaker 5: early on with the Russia hoax, and then throughout the

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Speaker 5: whole administration with the two impeachments, just a concerted effort

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Speaker 5: to the lively pushings to tie up Gulliver.

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Speaker 6: I mean, that was kind of what they were doing.

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Speaker 5: And then January sixth comes along, and that's created the

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Speaker 5: four years, four years of law fair opportunities unprecedented in

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Speaker 5: our history, that had been nothing but distract us from

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Speaker 5: the most important things we have to be doing, including

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Speaker 5: dealing with communists China, which seems to be a footnote

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Speaker 5: to a footnote even in the polling. I mean, if

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Speaker 5: you look at what people are concerned about right now,

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Speaker 5: communist China isn't even a blip on the horizon, when

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Speaker 5: in fact, it's in many ways the core source of

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Speaker 5: all of the many eken and foreign policy problems we face.

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Speaker 5: So we are once again distracted as a nation. So

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Speaker 5: just mechanically the way this works, if you think about

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Speaker 5: what they did to President Trump, you think about what

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Speaker 5: they did to me, there's there's a there's an interesting

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Speaker 5: analogs there.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 5: So January sixth, you get a committee that's formed, it's

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Speaker 5: illegally formed, unduly authorized, it has essentially only one mission.

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Speaker 5: Mission wasn't to find out what happened on Capitol Hill

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Speaker 5: that day. We now know it was because Nancy Pelosi

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Speaker 5: didn't provide guards, and the FBI sent a bunch of

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Speaker 5: inflammatory instigators up there. That's my view of that. It

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Speaker 5: was simply to gather evidence by strong arming people with

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Speaker 5: subpoenas so that they could somehow take Trump out for

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Speaker 5: the twenty tour for election.

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Speaker 6: That's all they were doing. That was it. That's all

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Speaker 6: they got out of.

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Speaker 5: It was an orchestrated circus, and that's what they came

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Speaker 5: up with, and they did it. They think they did

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Speaker 5: it very well. You could argue they did it very well.

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Speaker 5: But in some sense, what they've done is expose this

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Speaker 5: whole weaponization strategy in a way which has boosted President

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Speaker 5: Trump's fortunes ironically to them. But what law Fair does

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Speaker 5: is when they come at you like they have with

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Speaker 5: President Trump, it's the first best for them is to

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Speaker 5: put the guy in prison. They thought they could quickly

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Speaker 5: do that, and you know, they had four years. They

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Speaker 5: figured they gave a present special prosecutor, they run through

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Speaker 5: the thing and they get him in prison and they

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Speaker 5: don't have to worry about them.

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Speaker 6: Okay, So that's like that's like the first best goal.

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Speaker 5: Well that didn't work out so well, So they got

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Speaker 5: these other are prosecutions going at Fannie Willison in Georgia,

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Speaker 5: they got Alvin Bragg in New York. They got these

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Speaker 5: civil suits going on, and there's there is collusion between them. Okay,

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Speaker 5: they're coordinating their court dates and this, that and the

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Speaker 5: other thing in a way which is specifically designed to

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Speaker 5: keep him off the campaign trail. Okay, and then what's

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Speaker 5: going on with President Trump? Well, he's having a raise.

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Speaker 5: This stuff's expensive. I mean for me, it's a million bucks.

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Speaker 5: I mean think about that million bucks. For him, it's

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Speaker 5: hundreds of millions of dollars. Now, I'm an economist, right,

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Speaker 5: There's something called the opportunity costs. Hey, what are those? Well,

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Speaker 5: that's money. That's money that could have went to the campaign.

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Speaker 5: Now I can tell you, like I had one case

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Speaker 5: and one one folks coming at me, and the most

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Speaker 5: I was going to face.

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Speaker 6: Was a couple of years in prison.

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Speaker 5: If I got four or five different folks coming at

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Speaker 5: me with seven hundred years of prison, that might give

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Speaker 5: me a little upset at night, maybe a little. I

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Speaker 5: don't know how Donald Trump does that.

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Speaker 6: Well I kind of do because I spent four years

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Speaker 6: with him. He's amazing. But that's another story for another time.

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Speaker 5: But what it does is it distracts you, or they

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Speaker 5: try to distract him from the mission, so they keep

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Speaker 5: him off the campaign trail, they take away his money,

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Speaker 5: they distract him.

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Speaker 6: What they were trying to do to me simply was

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Speaker 6: strong army.

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Speaker 5: You saw a parade of Trump officials who cal tawd,

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Speaker 5: bent their knee, testified when that was a violation.

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Speaker 6: Of their oath of office.

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Speaker 5: It was a violation of their oath of office when

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Speaker 5: the President invokes executive privilege, when he did for me,

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Speaker 5: it wasn't my privilege to waive. By law, I had

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Speaker 5: no right to waive that privilege. It was my duty

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Speaker 5: to do what I did, which was to tell that

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Speaker 5: committee two things, one pound sand not doing it, and

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Speaker 5: two happy to do it. Happy to do it, you

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Speaker 5: simply caalk to President Trump and get her to waive

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Speaker 5: the privilege. They did not do that. They didn't even

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Speaker 5: try to do that. And therein lies the rub. So

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Speaker 5: I wound up as the first senior White House official

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Speaker 5: ever charged with a crime that the Department of Justice

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Speaker 5: said for fifty years was not a crime that by

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Speaker 5: the constitutional separation of powers, Folks like me have absolute

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Speaker 5: testimony immunity because, as the Supreme Court has said repeatedly,

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Speaker 5: executive privilege is necessary for effective presidential decision making because

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Speaker 5: it provides that, in their words, candor and confidentiality that's

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Speaker 5: required for such effective presidential decision making.

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Speaker 1: So what.

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Speaker 5: Is happening now in my world? And you hear I mean,

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Speaker 5: it's it's pathetic in a way. It's like you hear

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Speaker 5: Mark Stein talk about twelve years of his life. You

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Speaker 5: hear Mark Morier come up talk about we shouldn't be

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Speaker 5: talking about this, We should be talking about the economy,

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Speaker 5: comedy is China, foreign policy.

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Speaker 6: So it's like, but what's happening in my case is

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Speaker 6: that it's.

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Speaker 5: Working its way ups in the Appeals Court now in

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Speaker 5: the District of Columbia, that's as the biggest cess pool

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Speaker 5: as you can have. It is as big a cess

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Speaker 5: pool as you can have in our justice system.

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Speaker 6: Two thirds of the judges on the Appeals.

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Speaker 5: Court are Democrat appointees, and virtue, all of them are

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Speaker 5: rigid idia logues who will make decisions not based on

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Speaker 5: the law, but on their vision of how the.

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Speaker 3: Law should be made.

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Speaker 5: That's not their job, not their job, but it will

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Speaker 5: go eventually. I believe to the Supreme Court where the

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Speaker 5: question of can Congress does Congress have the authority the

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Speaker 5: subpoena a president or White House officials?

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Speaker 6: That will be resolved forever.

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Speaker 5: And if the Supreme cord takes it, resolves the way

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Speaker 5: it should, then what happened to me will be worth it.

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Speaker 6: That's what you do, That's what you do, thank you.

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Speaker 5: And the other interesting question that came up during the

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Speaker 5: trial was what's a proper invocation a privilege?

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Speaker 6: We had a very clever by half Judge Ahmet madea.

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Speaker 5: Yes, a man who raised money for the Obama campaign

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Speaker 5: and was duly rewarded. He held an evidentiary hearing and

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Speaker 5: we brought in like a bulldozer with a big mountain

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Speaker 5: of evidence on the front end of it and things

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Speaker 5: like that, lopped it down and he said, Nope, President

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Speaker 5: didn't invoke executive privilege properly. It's like, uh huh, not

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Speaker 5: his role. That's not what the judicial branch is supposed

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Speaker 5: to do. So that was a violation of the separation

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Speaker 5: of ours.

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Speaker 6: So what did he do?

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Speaker 5: They stripped me of every possible defense and I get

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Speaker 5: to a DC jury. Mark Stein talked a little bit

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Speaker 5: about that last night where.

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Speaker 6: Ninety five votes for Biden.

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Speaker 5: In the jury pool because the jury pools drawn from

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Speaker 5: the electorate.

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Speaker 6: Right, and here we go.

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Speaker 5: Now, at that point, what should have happened was I

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Speaker 5: should have been released pending appeal.

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Speaker 6: But the judge didn't even do that, right.

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Speaker 5: So I'm going to serve four years four months in prison.

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Speaker 5: It seemed like four years four months in prison. And

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Speaker 5: if if I went on appeal, it's like tough luck,

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Speaker 5: irreparable harm. So it's not well as me. It's like

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Speaker 5: I went to prison, so you won't have to. My

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Speaker 5: case illustrates graphically what's wrong exactly with a system where

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Speaker 5: every person involved in putting me in prison was a Democrat,

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Speaker 5: every single person, Congressman, attorneys at the Department of Injustice,

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Speaker 5: jury judge, appeals court judges. That's where we're at, where

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Speaker 5: we're at now, and that's why we got to win

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Speaker 5: in November and begin to turn this around, because as

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Speaker 5: russ Vote said, we are at eleven fifty nine and

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Speaker 5: that's why we do this.

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Speaker 6: All right, Thanks, look forward to your questions.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: Next, we have Professor Bradley Smith. He is the Josiah

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Speaker 4: Blackmore and Shirley Nault professor of Law at Capital University

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Speaker 4: in Columbus, Ohio, and he has held prior visiting positions

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Speaker 4: at Princeton and at West Virginia University.

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Speaker 6: He is the author or co author of.

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Speaker 4: Three books on election law and voting rights, and from

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Speaker 4: June two thousand until August of two thousand and five,

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Speaker 4: he served as a commissioner on the Federal Elections Commission,

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Speaker 4: including a term as vice chairman and chairman.

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Speaker 8: Professor Smith, all right, well, thank you, Professor p Studo,

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Speaker 8: thank you all for coming out. And I think, Peter,

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Speaker 8: you know, you go through life and you always like

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Speaker 8: to think if you were put in one of these positions,

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Speaker 8: you know you'd have that kind of internal fortitude. And

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Speaker 8: I'm not sure that I would have that internal fortitude.

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Speaker 8: I'd like to think I would. It's nice to meet

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Speaker 8: somebody who you know, does I will say, following up

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Speaker 8: on something Peter mentioned, I also got my degree at Harvard,

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Speaker 8: and my daughter actually did go to to Hillsdale. So

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Speaker 8: I presume that I was invited here not only because

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Speaker 8: of my incredible good looks and sterling wit, but because

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Speaker 8: I was also listed as an expert witness intended to

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Speaker 8: testify at the Trump trial in New York, New York

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Speaker 8: versus Trump, and the judge did allow me to testify.

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Speaker 8: It's been often reported that he refused to allow me

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Speaker 8: to testify. Now, he wasn't going to let me testify

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Speaker 8: as an expert witness, but he wasn't gonna let me

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Speaker 8: testify tom much other than well, the address of the

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Speaker 8: Federal Election Commission is and things like that, nothing of

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Speaker 8: any substance. So I do want to talk because I

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Speaker 8: think that's probably why they invited me. I do want

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Speaker 8: to talk a little bit about that as an example

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Speaker 8: again of how some of this works, follow up on

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Speaker 8: Peter's comments, and then.

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Speaker 3: Talk a little bit more broadly about this concept of

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Speaker 3: the lawfare.

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Speaker 8: So I don't know how closely people were all following

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Speaker 8: the Trump trial in New York, but basically the charge

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Speaker 8: against Trump was falsification of business records. Now, this is

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Speaker 8: a misdemeanor offense, it's not a big deal, and the

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Speaker 8: statute's limitations had passed on it in any case, So

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Speaker 8: what the prosecutors had to do was ratcheted up to

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Speaker 8: a felony measure. Now, by the way, it's not clear

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Speaker 8: to me that it was a misreporting of any business expenditure.

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Speaker 8: But that's more than I have time to go into here.

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Speaker 8: So in any case, they wanted to ratchet up to

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Speaker 8: a felony. Well, to do that, you have to hold

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Speaker 8: that it was falsification of business records in order to

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Speaker 8: cover up another crime. So then you have to decide, okay,

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Speaker 8: so what is the other crime. Well, it was decided

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Speaker 8: that the other crime is a part of the New

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Speaker 8: York Election Code, which makes it illegal to try to

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Speaker 8: influence an election by unlawful means. Okay, So now we

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Speaker 8: need some unlawful means by which they're trying to influence election,

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Speaker 8: because you know, one of the things you try to

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Speaker 8: do if you're running for public office is to influence

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Speaker 8: the election. That's actually one of the core things that

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Speaker 8: you do during the course of the campaign.

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Speaker 3: So what were the illegal means that were used.

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Speaker 8: It appears to have been assumed that it was a

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Speaker 8: violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act. Now, as we

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Speaker 8: start to unpack all that, let's go back to an

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Speaker 8: opening position here, which is the prosecutor is a fellow

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Speaker 8: name Alvin Bragg, who ran for office on one of

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Speaker 8: his positions was that he was the kind of guy

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Speaker 8: who knew how to put Donald Trump behind bars.

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Speaker 3: He would this kind of guy who could get that done.

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Speaker 8: It's a partisan office. There a lot of attorneys in

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Speaker 8: the United States. District attorneys and state attorneys.

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Speaker 3: And so on are elected.

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Speaker 8: Historically there was a norm, however, that they were supposed

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Speaker 8: to be nonpartisan law enforcement officers. Bragg and his campaign

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Speaker 8: bragged that that would not.

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Speaker 3: Be the case. He judge was a fellow named Juan Mershon.

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Speaker 8: Mershon actually donated to the Biden for President campaign a

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Speaker 8: vihlation of judicial canon of ethics. It wasn't a large

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Speaker 8: amount which might be viewed as exculpatory or might be

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Speaker 8: viewed as he just wanted to make sure that Biden

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Speaker 8: people knew he was in their camp. But he didn't

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Speaker 8: want to give much because that would really look bad.

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Speaker 8: His daughter was a major fundraiser for various Democratic operations

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Speaker 8: opposed to Trump, but he refused to accuse himself despite

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Speaker 8: those things. One of the officials prosecuting it had been

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Speaker 8: a Department of Justice official who was a very high

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Speaker 8: ranking Department of Justice official left the Department of Justice

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Speaker 8: to come back and do this like prosecution or this

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Speaker 8: records offense in New York.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what one makes of that, obviously.

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Speaker 8: Though I wouldn't want to suggest that the Department of

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Speaker 8: Justice had anything to do with the state processes in

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Speaker 8: New York.

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Speaker 3: So this was the basic framework here.

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Speaker 8: Now, as I mentioned, I was there to talk a

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Speaker 8: little bit about the Federal Election Campaign Act and how

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Speaker 8: these things would have been and interpreted, how the FEC

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Speaker 8: likely would have reacted to this kind of defense.

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Speaker 3: And there's a lot here.

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Speaker 8: I mean, this is a long explanation that I would

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Speaker 8: go into, and I'm not going to do that here. Rather,

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Speaker 8: I just want to highlight a couple points of things

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Speaker 8: that I did not end up being allowed.

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Speaker 3: To testify to.

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Speaker 8: One was throughout the trial, it was noted and allowed

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Speaker 8: in his testimony that David Pecker, he was the published

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Speaker 8: of the National Inquirer and the National Acquirer Company, had

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Speaker 8: signed a non prosecution agreement with federal prosecutors.

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Speaker 3: Federal prosecutors would.

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Speaker 8: Not prosecute them and they would pay a civil fine

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Speaker 8: to the FEC. They just called up the FEC said Hey,

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Speaker 8: we want to plead that we did this. We're going

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Speaker 8: to pay you some money.

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Speaker 3: The FC said, oh, I am.

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Speaker 8: Sure, we'll take some money from that's fine, and that

440
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 8: was how they did that.

441
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 3: Pecker did that.

442
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 8: I think it's pretty clear because they were engaged in

443
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 8: some merger and acquisition talks and they essentially wanted to

444
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 8: clear the decks to get this off their charts.

445
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 3: Anyway, that was allowed in that Pecker.

446
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 8: Had agreed that they committed this conspiracy to violate the

447
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 8: Federal Election Campaign Act. It was also allowed in Michael

448
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 8: Cohen's plea agreement. Now, Michael Cohen, remember they had him

449
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 8: on tax offenses and a whole bunch of things that

450
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 8: would have put him in prison for many, many years.

451
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 8: He pled guilty to a small federal Russian Campaign Act violation,

452
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 8: served a little bit of time in prison, and his

453
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 8: position was, I think you know that he was going

454
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,239
Speaker 8: to then talk about Trump and implicate Trump, and the

455
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 8: theory that prosecutors brought up that became apparent at the

456
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 8: opening argument of the trial. At the opening statement was

457
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 8: that Trump had violated the Federal Action Campaign Act through

458
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 8: these payments to this porn star Stormy Daniels to keep

459
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 8: her quiet about her allegations that she had had an

460
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 8: affair with Trump some ten years prior to the twenty

461
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 8: sixteen campaign. That was the basic framework there, and the

462
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 8: prosecution emphasized that the Trump camp after the remember the

463
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 8: Access Hollywood tape came out and they were the panicked

464
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 8: over now this further allegation they really want this and

465
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 8: Trump's big desire, which Coin testified to and others, Trump

466
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 8: just wanted to put it past the election. We just

467
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 8: got to get this past the election. That was their

468
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 8: theme emphasized over and over. So with that in mind,

469
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 8: just to give you a taste for the trial, one

470
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 8: of the things that I might.

471
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 3: Have testified too, a couple of things.

472
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 8: One would be I might have testified to the fact

473
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 8: that the fe in fact chose not to prosecute President Trump,

474
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 8: as did the US Department of Justice, actually chose not

475
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 8: to prosecute President Trump on criminal grounds for fake A

476
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 8: violations federally Ruction Campaign Act violations because for many or

477
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 8: many reasons again that I won't go into in detail,

478
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 8: it's not at all obvious that there was any Federal

479
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 8: Uction Campaign Act violation.

480
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 3: I think it's pretty clear that there was not.

481
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 8: Okay, so that was you know that testimony wasn't allowed,

482
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 8: but they did allow in the other quote, co conspirators

483
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 8: to say, yeah, we all played guilty and we violate

484
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,719
Speaker 8: the law. Judge Mersham said one reason I couldn't testify

485
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 8: was he was afraid I would testify as to the law.

486
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 3: And of course it's basic idea that the.

487
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 8: Judge tells the jury what the law is and expert

488
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 8: witnesses do not. And we try to point out I'm

489
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 8: not going to tell the jury what the law is,

490
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 8: but I'm going to tell them how the law works

491
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 8: in certain circumstances. Well, they wouldn't allow that, but it

492
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 8: was worth noting that he allowed Michael Cohen to repeatedly

493
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 8: tell the jury what the law was on campaign finance

494
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 8: violations and assert that he and Trump had both violated it,

495
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 8: and then, realizing that that was probably a big mistake,

496
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 8: he instructed the jury he said, pay no attention to

497
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 8: those last comments about the defendant's guilt.

498
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 3: There's are only to give you context.

499
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 8: Now, I couldn't testify for context, but Michael con cound

500
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 8: test five times.

501
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 3: I allowed that only give you context.

502
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 8: You shouldn't use that in considering whether or not the

503
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 8: defendant violated the law. And as I would say, this

504
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 8: is a little bit like if I said to you

505
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 8: all today I said, you know, for the rest of

506
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 8: the day, the one thing I don't want you to

507
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 8: do is think about a yellow VW microbus.

508
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 3: You're all going to think about.

509
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 8: That's probably going to be the only thing you'll remember

510
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 8: from this little talk, right is you'll be thinking of

511
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 8: Michael YELLOWVW microbus. So that's all called to the attention. Well,

512
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 8: in any case, I got to get moving along here.

513
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 8: So one of the things I would have pointed out there. Remember,

514
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 8: the theory was they were trying to hide this till

515
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 8: after the election. One of the things I would have

516
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 8: pointed out, without going through the whole system, is that

517
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 8: had they paid for this expense the way that the

518
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 8: prosecution said they should have, it would not have been

519
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 8: reported until December of twenty sixteen under the Federal Election

520
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 8: Campaign Act. So the entire prosecution's theory makes no sense

521
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 8: if you've got this theory that they're trying to violate

522
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:06,959
Speaker 8: the Election Campaign Acts so they don't have to have

523
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 8: this thing become public knowledge when it wouldn't become public

524
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 8: knowledge even if they had.

525
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 3: Done exactly what the prosecution thought they should do.

526
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 8: So that's the nature of what was going on in

527
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 8: that prosecution I think there were bad instructions to the jury,

528
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 8: bad evidence, allowed many grounds for appeal.

529
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 3: We ultimately will have to see what happens.

530
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 8: So, because it's going to work up through the heavily

531
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 8: democratic New York court system, it's going to be some time,

532
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 8: I think then before it would ever get to the

533
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 8: Supreme Court. And one of the key things here, by

534
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 8: the way, is note that under one of our oldest laws,

535
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 8: the Federal Judiciary Act of seventeen eighty nine, federal offenses

536
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 8: have to be prosecuted in federal court. And they got

537
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 8: this into state court on this flimsy ground that really

538
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 8: we're prosecuting this New York state election law code which

539
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 8: makes it illegal to do this, or that was the

540
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 8: underlying fence for the records violation, which it's the New

541
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 8: York state law. But you know, ultimately it all comes

542
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,479
Speaker 8: down to if a jury finds something that no federal

543
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 8: court has found, no federal jury or.

544
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 3: Judge or anything, and then no federal agency has.

545
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 8: Found that Trump violated the Federal Action Campaign Act, he

546
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 8: can go to jail if they don't find that he

547
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 8: walks right. That sounds to me like they were trying

548
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 8: a federal offense in the state court. Okay, Well, anyway,

549
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 8: that just gives you a little bit of flavor. And

550
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 8: you know, if that's not enough for you, you can

551
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 8: always try to corner me later and I'll give you

552
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 8: all the juicy details. But for now, let me just

553
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 8: talk a little bit. So I've got about five minutes

554
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 8: left about the Lawfair more generally, I think it's a

555
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 8: mistake to think that Lawfair is just focused on Trump

556
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 8: and Peter talked about this a bit, and it goes

557
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 8: a lot further even than the Trump administration. I think

558
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 8: this is important really to understand. You know, they go

559
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 8: after lawyers who represented Trump and other people and trying

560
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 8: to get them disbarred. They've gone after other lawyers and

561
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 8: other capacities. For example, Montana's Republican Attorney general now has

562
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 8: complaints have filed against him in an effort to bar

563
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 8: him in Montana because in a dispute between the Montana

564
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 8: Legislature and the Montana Supreme Court, again a complicated issue,

565
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 8: he represented the Montana Legislature and of necessity had to

566
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 8: say that the Montana Supreme Court should lose this case.

567
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 3: And essentially they said.

568
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 8: Well, you were demeaning the court, and that's a violation

569
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 8: of the Ethics Code, and they're trying to just bar

570
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 8: him for that, for representing his client. The legislature asked

571
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 8: the state's attorney general, which is his obligation to do.

572
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: We see ordinary people.

573
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 8: There's a poll worker in Michigan who thought one of

574
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 8: the other pole workers or election officials and making bad decisions,

575
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 8: and he went out in the hall and he made

576
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 8: some stupid comments to a friend.

577
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 3: He said, Oh, that's treason. They ought to be hanged. Well,

578
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 3: you know, first, it's ridiculous, it's not treats. They shouldn't

579
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 3: be hanged.

580
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 8: But but you know, this is just a comment made

581
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 8: to another person there. But at least one other person

582
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 8: overheard this, and several months later, this other person reported it,

583
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 8: and now they're prosecuting this person for death threats.

584
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 3: Right now, I'll be thought it was a death threat.

585
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 8: This is the kind of comment people make when they're

586
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 8: a little excited and they're in a private conversation with somebody.

587
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 8: I mean, obviously the person who reported it didn't think

588
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 8: it was a death threat.

589
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 3: It's not like she went running to the police. Oh

590
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 3: my gosh, she wants to kill the guy who's in there.

591
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 8: You know, nobody thought that they're prosecuting him now for that.

592
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 8: One of the things I do is I had an

593
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 8: organization called the Institute for Free Speech. In recent years,

594
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 8: we've had to spend a fair amount of time offering

595
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 8: pro bono legal services to moms and other parents and

596
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 8: stuff who are being denied the right to speak at

597
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 8: school board meetings or threatened with prosecutions and so on.

598
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 8: And some of you may recall the memo that went

599
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 8: out from the Attorney General's office a couple of years

600
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 8: ago talking about these terrorist threats in the school districts

601
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 8: and that sort of thing. These are all forms of lawfare,

602
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 8: and they're designed to intimidate people and get people out

603
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 8: of participating. A case in New York that the Supreme

604
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 8: Court decided favorably earlier this year.

605
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 3: It's a case called.

606
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 8: Vilo versus the National Rifle Association, was an open attempt

607
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 8: by New York's state Attorney General, who had campaigned on

608
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 8: this platform to shut down the and it was held that,

609
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 8: you know, she could not do that. She was trying

610
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 8: to pressure banks and other operations not to do business

611
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 8: with the NRA by threatening them with regulatory actions and

612
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 8: then saying, oh, we didn't do.

613
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 3: Anything to the NRA, it's just those private other entities,

614
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 3: the banks and so on.

615
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 8: So all of these are forms of lawfare, and we

616
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 8: should notice well that lawfare can also take the form

617
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 8: of not prosecuting people that right now we have prosecutors

618
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 8: around the country, these liberal democratic prosecutors who are simply

619
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 8: excusing whole categories of crime from being prosecuted. Now, prosecutors

620
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 8: always have prosecutorial discretion as to a lot of people

621
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 8: in the law enforcement system. You know, your average police

622
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 8: chief is going to get mad if he's got an

623
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 8: officer who's out there just ticketing people left and right

624
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 8: for jaywalking.

625
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 3: It's going to say, you know, that's not really an

626
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 3: efficient use of our resources. It's not what we want

627
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 3: to be doing.

628
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 8: That's perfectly acceptable and normal. What's different is simply saying

629
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 8: it's not just that these kinds offenses are not priorities

630
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 8: to us, but simply, as a categorical matter, we are

631
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 8: not going to prosecute them. We essentially them out of

632
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 8: the law book in any circumstance. And that's a form

633
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 8: of lawfare, because of course it can be used against

634
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 8: the you know, to excuse actions by people on your side,

635
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 8: whether it's acts, whether it's acts of violence engaged in

636
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 8: during what's the term mostly peaceful protest or, or whether

637
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 8: it's you know, something else that somebody has done that

638
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 8: creates this two tier system of justice. And this is

639
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 8: I think very damaging to the rule of law. It's

640
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 8: very damaging to our republic, and the idea that you

641
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 8: know somebody is a threat to democracy. This is a

642
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 8: real threat to one of the core values that we

643
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 8: hold dear in democracy. And the one final thing I

644
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 8: would leave you with is just this, I urge you

645
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 8: to try to educate yourself on these points. In some

646
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 8: of these specific examples, I've not been able to go

647
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 8: into them in detail, but just allude to them because

648
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 8: the left doesn't know this. There are a lot of

649
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 8: actually good faith people on the left who would be

650
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 8: appalled by this, and they have no idea, idea what

651
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 8: you're talking about.

652
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 3: I'd be like, lawfair, what's that?

653
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 8: Probably everybody in this room kind of knew something about

654
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 8: Lawfair before today. They have nothing on that, they have

655
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 8: nothing in their registry, they don't get it from their

656
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 8: media sources and so on. And so we need to

657
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 8: actually tell them that this is going on. Thank you

658
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 8: very much.

659
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 4: Finally, we have Byron York, who is a chief political

660
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 4: correspondent for The Washington Examiner and also a Fox News contributor.

661
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 4: He has covered the Bush, Obama, Trump, and now Biden administrations,

662
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 4: as well as Congress and each presidential campaign since two thousand.

663
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 4: He is the author of two books, The Vast Left

664
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 4: Wing Conspiracy, which is an account of liberal activism in

665
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 4: the two thousand and four election, and Obsession, an account

666
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 4: of the Democratic efforts to remove President Trump from office.

667
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 9: Right, Thank you very much, and thank you to Hillsdale

668
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 9: for having me, but also for doing this. It's really

669
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 9: important for us to be talking about it and listening

670
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 9: to what was said. I had the thought that a

671
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 9: lot of us talk about law fair as the four

672
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 9: cases for prosecutions against Donald Trump, and I think it's

673
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:41,439
Speaker 9: important to note that those legal charges against Trump, which

674
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 9: have gotten so much attention, came after decades of abuse

675
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 9: of the actual constitutional process of investigating alleged wrongdoing among presidents.

676
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 9: And I would go back, I mean, you got to

677
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 9: go back to Watergate in this and they passed the

678
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 9: Independent Council Law in nineteen seventy eight, and it is

679
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 9: used very successfully to torture Republican administrations.

680
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: In the nineteen.

681
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 3: Eighties, they love it.

682
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 9: There was a very long around Contra investigation there or

683
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 9: other investigations. We had this same sort of situation of

684
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:28,439
Speaker 9: administration officials going to court, being bankrupted by their legal

685
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 9: expenses and going to jail. And as it happened, the

686
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 9: law was set to expire in nineteen ninety two and Republicans,

687
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 9: and what I guess was an active statesmanship, said to Democrats,

688
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 9: let it die. Do not under any circumstances renew it.

689
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 9: Don't do it. But they had a new president at

690
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 9: that time, Bill Clinton, who was a Democrat who felt

691
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 9: apparently certain that he would not be investigated by these things,

692
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 9: and he.

693
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: Said, no, no, we have got to ren this law.

694
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 9: It's absolutely essential to maintaining public integrity in the United States.

695
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 2: So they read into the law.

696
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 9: And within a year Clinton has an independent council, and

697
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 9: then he has more independent councils. Then he has a

698
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 9: kind of star, the late kind of Star, who by

699
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 9: the way, really opposed the law, but said, look, Congress

700
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,479
Speaker 9: passed it, the President signed it, and the Supreme Court

701
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 9: upheld it. And you know, the Supreme Court had upheld

702
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 9: it in this famous case called Morrison versus Olsen, and

703
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 9: it was decided seven to one in favor of upholding

704
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 9: that law. And the one was antonin Scalia who said,

705
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 9: this law is just reeks of threatened impeachment. What it

706
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 9: means is you can appoint an independent council who was

707
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 9: basically the the investigative arm, the weaponized arm of the

708
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 9: House Judiciary Committee, and he'll do all the work, give

709
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 9: it to the House Judiciary Committee, and they will impeach

710
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 9: the president. And darned if that didn't happen in nineteen

711
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 9: ninety eight. And you know, in the first one hundred

712
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 9: years the Republic, he had one impeachment, and then the

713
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 9: second you had one threatened impeachment, and then the last

714
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 9: twenty five years we've had three. So something something is

715
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 9: wrong here. So after Clinton, basically you see more threatened impeachments.

716
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 9: I mean, maybe we forget the number of Democrats who

717
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 9: wanted to impeach George W.

718
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 2: Bush.

719
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 9: When John Conyers, the Democrat became chairman of the House

720
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 9: Judiciary Committee.

721
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: He tried to impeach Bush.

722
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 9: In two thousand and seven. And this kept on and

723
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:55,919
Speaker 9: on until we get to January twentieth, twenty seventeen, when

724
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 9: Donald Trump is inaugurated. It's inauguration Day and at twelve

725
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 9: nineteen pm, the Washington Post published an article and the

726
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 9: headline was, the campaign to impeach President Trump has begun.

727
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 9: And Trump had been president at that point for nineteen minutes.

728
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 9: And what we saw was a series of investigations, the

729
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 9: whole what Trump calls the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax.

730
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 2: But we were off to the races.

731
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 9: And I think the thing that has been so disturbing

732
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 9: to so many people about the actual prosecutions of the

733
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 9: post presidential prosecutions has been that they've seen this process

734
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 9: of Trump being attacked in the press and then being

735
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 9: investigated and then being impeached, and then the question is, well,

736
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 9: what's next. So the answer was to try to bankrupt

737
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 9: him and put him in jail, and that's what we've seen,

738
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 9: and very recently we've seen that not work out too

739
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 9: well for some of the prosecutors involved here, that cases

740
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 9: have either fallen apart for lack of evidence or for novelty,

741
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 9: or for their own misconduct. And as we've seen, the

742
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 9: law Fair campaign actually fail to actually put Trump behind bars.

743
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 9: There was a lot of worry among Republicans. Okay, if

744
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 9: that doesn't work, what comes after that? And the fear,

745
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 9: of course, had been that some unbalanced individual would decide

746
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 9: that assassinating Trump would be the only way to solve

747
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 9: the Trump problem. And of course we've seen two attempts

748
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 9: of that just in the last two months.

749
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 2: So you know, I spent last night.

750
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 9: I went back and I watched Peter's speech to the

751
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 9: Republican Convention, and it was a spirited speech and basically

752
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 9: the point was, look, they'll do it to me, They're

753
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 9: ultimately going to get around to doing it to you

754
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 9: two unless we stop it.

755
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: And the question is, well, how do you stop it?

756
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 9: And in the one sense, the lesson of the Independent

757
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 9: Council law in the nineteen nineties was that if it

758
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 9: comes around and bites the other side on the behind,

759
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 9: maybe they'll agree to let it die, which is what

760
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 9: happened after the Clinton impeachment. The law came up for

761
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 9: renewal again and everybody agreed that it was a bad

762
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 9: idea and they let it die.

763
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,240
Speaker 2: So, yes, if you do it to the other side,

764
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: perhaps that.

765
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 9: Will change their minds on the other hand. After the

766
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 9: Independent Council law died in two thousand and one or so,

767
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 9: this whole process just started again.

768
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 2: We've had all.

769
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 9: These abuses occur after the demise of this unconstitutional law.

770
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 9: So I hate to give a pessimistic assessment here, but

771
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 9: I think that if you talk to Democrats about the

772
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 9: law fair campaign that we've seen recently, Obviously the idea

773
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 9: was to put Trump in jail, but the secondary goals

774
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 9: were to keep him off the campaign trail, keep him

775
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 9: locked in a courtroom where to bankrupt him we're and

776
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 9: also just to get in his head. And I frankly

777
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 9: believe that he is not. His campaign is not really

778
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 9: hitting on all cylinders right now, and it's partly a

779
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 9: result of all of the incredible stress that not one,

780
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 9: not two, not three, but four indictments plus lawsuits that

781
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 9: were designed to destroy his business and take.

782
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 2: All his money.

783
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 9: That has an effect on people. I mean, maybe even

784
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 9: if you're not seventy eight years old, it has an

785
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 9: effect on people. And Trump appears to have on almost

786
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 9: supernatural level of energy, but it has an effect on people.

787
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 9: I interviewed him at mar A Lago a few months ago,

788
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 9: and and I asked him about this effect because he

789
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 9: he had. He at times seems mortified that it has

790
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 9: all happened to him. I don't know if you've watched

791
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 9: his speech as much, but he talks about his parents

792
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 9: in heaven looking down on him, saying, how did our

793
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 9: son get indicted more than more times than al Capone?

794
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 2: And so that's his that's his joke line.

795
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 9: But I think he's appalled and mortified that this happened

796
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 9: and the so I asked him about it, and he

797
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 9: said he was surprised. And this is the Alvin Bragg indictment,

798
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 9: which was the that Brad was talking about. It's the

799
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 9: first first indictment that happened. And I said, you were surprised, really,

800
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 9: he says yeah.

801
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 2: I said well.

802
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 9: Why and he said because I'd been listening to all

803
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 9: those lawyers who said there wasn't a case. And I said, well,

804
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 9: you know, there really wasn't a case, and he said,

805
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 9: well that didn't matter, obviously, and he was kind of

806
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 9: the victim of old thinking that it would matter whether

807
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 9: there was a case or not for him to be indicted.

808
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 9: So I think that you would have to say, just

809
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 9: in terms of taking Trump off his game, making things

810
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 9: more difficult for him and showing him that there is

811
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 9: a price to to keep running for president. I think

812
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 9: the Lawfair campaign has had some level of success. And

813
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:49,240
Speaker 9: obviously the judge is going to sentence Trump after the election.

814
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 9: He's put it off until after the election, but that's

815
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 9: hanging over his head.

816
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:53,720
Speaker 2: The judge can put Trump.

817
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 9: In jail if he wants, and so this is an

818
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 9: extraordinarily serious moment. And Trump has spent months locked up

819
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 9: in courtrooms or in legal battles, and now he's.

820
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 2: Hunkered down against assassination attempts.

821
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 9: He's having to constrict the way he operates, do more

822
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 9: of it behind bulletproof class. I do think that the

823
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 9: campaign to cripple Trump has had its effect. It's an

824
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 9: extraordinary testimony to him that he keeps going at this level.

825
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 9: It's really pretty amazing. But but I think the pessimistic,

826
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 9: pessimistic message I would give about this is that so

827
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 9: far Lawfair has actually worked, and I think we're going

828
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 9: to have to see some new development that perhaps we

829
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 9: can't predict to see it finally, finally stop thank.

830
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 4: You, okay, thank you to our panelists. There's one observation,

831
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 4: quick observation I would make before we turned to discussion,

832
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 4: and that is I think the tie between this panel

833
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 4: on law fair and the panel earlier this morning on

834
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 4: the administrative state. And that is to say that in

835
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 4: both of those instances, you have a circuit Court of

836
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 4: Appeals for the District of Columbia that is not minding

837
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 4: the store. That Court of Appeals is responsible for hearing

838
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 4: appeals from trials that are brought here in the Washington

839
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 4: DC area. And it's also the Court of Appeals that

840
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 4: is the natural place where citizens could take an administrative

841
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 4: agency to court to challenge abuses of the law and

842
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,240
Speaker 4: the constitution, and that is the court. Some may remember

843
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 4: that Harry Reid back during the Obama administration, took a

844
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 4: lot of trouble to pack. He was actually went out

845
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 4: of his way to kill the filibuster so that he

846
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 4: could pack that court with leftist ideologues. And we are

847
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 4: now paying the price for that. Whether this is a

848
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 4: court that should should be the adults in the room

849
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 4: to rein in the administrative agencies to throw out some

850
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 4: of these ridiculous prosecutions. But now, of course everything has

851
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 4: to end up at the Supreme Court of the United States,

852
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 4: and that's always a risky venture. So that's just the

853
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 4: gift that keeps on giving, it seems to me, and

854
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 4: it's appropriate to understand that for both of our panels

855
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 4: this morning, I'd like to see if there are any

856
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 4: comments that the panelists themselves have with respect to one

857
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 4: another's presentations, or if they would prefer that I simply

858
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 4: throw it open to the audience. I'm reading, throw it

859
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 4: open to the audience. So yep, you know there are

860
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 4: how this works. There are microphones going around, so if

861
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 4: you would like to ask a question, please make yourself

862
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 4: known by raising your hand and wait for the microphone

863
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 4: to come to you, and don't try to grab the

864
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 4: microphone away. As you may have noticed, they won't give

865
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:14,959
Speaker 4: it to you.

866
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 2: So thank you, yes.

867
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 10: Sir Peter, God bless you for what you've sacrificed.

868
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 5: And and my fiance there, Bonnie sitting in the front,

869
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 5: give her a bigger hand, Blaze. What they don't understand

870
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 5: is when they put people like me in prison, they

871
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 5: put our family in prison too.

872
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 6: So that's what I will like, condet.

873
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 10: I would throw this open to anybody on the panel

874
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 10: and including R Jay that wants to respond. It seems

875
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 10: to me that the Democrats are at war with the

876
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 10: Trumpet administration, the MAGA group, and many, many, many people

877
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 10: are facing Mark Jeff Clark, we go on for twenty

878
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 10: minutes about a number of people who are their lives

879
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 10: are being ruined by the Democratic Party. Here here's my issue.

880
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 10: It seems to me that there was a cornucopia of

881
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 10: things that the Republican House of Representatives could have done

882
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 10: in opposition to what was being done to you and

883
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 10: Bannon and Trump and everybody else. Seems to me that

884
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 10: the governor of Georgia, Kemp, could have stepped in and

885
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 10: done a lot with the Fanny Willis mess down there.

886
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 10: And we've got plenty of red state governors that could

887
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 10: have done what Mike Davis calls the dead Chicken strategy

888
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 10: and taken out people on the Democratic side in red states.

889
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 10: Why is it that the Republican Party seems so impotent,

890
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 10: including the Supreme Court?

891
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 5: Supreme Court, that's an easy lift, And I wish the

892
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 5: first panel at least touched on this, because we have

893
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 5: to be honest with ourselves. The Republican Party itself has

894
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 5: yet to coalesce around the principles of Trump Republicanism. There's

895
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 5: the original traditional Republicanism of Wall Street, which focuses on

896
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 5: principles like a lower tax burd and a lower regulatory burden,

897
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 5: a small government, and all of that which Donald Trump

898
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 5: folks who serve him like me, certainly embraced. But the

899
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 5: Trump Revolution really and I talk about this in the

900
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 5: book You guys referenced a New Maga Deal because I

901
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 5: wrote that book because when we lost the twenty twenty

902
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 5: two election, I thought that there wasn't a really strong

903
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,280
Speaker 5: defen defense of MAGA. I mean, I went watching a

904
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 5: Trump last night on Gutfield. It was hilarious and very relaxed.

905
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 5: I don't know if any of you saw that, but

906
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 5: that's who he is. That's that's who Donald Trump is.

907
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 5: But he was going, he was like going, how can

908
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,760
Speaker 5: Joe Biden attack megas extremists? That you know what it stands,

909
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 5: we make America great again? Right and so so for

910
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 5: me and the reason why I wound up in the

911
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 5: Trump administration was was what we call the iron Maga triangle.

912
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 5: It's it's very simply a strong manufacturing and defense at

913
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 5: industrial base that you bring about through things like terriffs

914
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 5: by American higher American things by the way, which are

915
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 5: anapthoma to the traditional Rhino Republican Party which prefers offshoring

916
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 5: jobs and ensuring cheap labor.

917
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 6: Across our southern border.

918
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 5: The second thing on that triangle is secure borders, again

919
00:55:54,920 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 5: anapthoma to the Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan Wing and frankly

920
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 5: half of the donors to Heritage. Right, there's a real

921
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 5: skisse in there. Well, we have to look in the

922
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 5: mirror and acknowledge. And then the third thing is the

923
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 5: end analyst wars. And you know those words were started

924
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,919
Speaker 5: by Republicans. That was a Bush Cheney war. That's why

925
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 5: Liz Cheney hates Donald Frum because he explained exactly why

926
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 5: that was a waste of blood and treasure of this country.

927
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 5: So when you asked me, why the Speaker of the House,

928
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 5: when he got the gavels Republican did nothing, nothing, nothing

929
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,800
Speaker 5: to help Donald Trump's the man and Peter Navarro, JF. Clark,

930
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 5: John Eastman and all the others who would be fed

931
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 5: into the meat grinder of Liz Cheney and Benny Thompson.

932
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 6: It simply because there's.

933
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 5: An element of the party which did not want Donald

934
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 5: Trump to be on the ballot and they're in action

935
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 5: was action.

936
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 6: And shame on them. Shame shame on them, sir.

937
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 5: And it goes on to this day with the current

938
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 5: House Speaker. I mean, they're they're they're crickets on that.

939
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 5: But we have to we have to win in November,

940
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 5: and then we have to consolidate this country around the

941
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 5: principles of Trump Republicanism, which is main street Middle America. Uh,

942
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 5: it's strong manufacturing base, its secure borders, it's an end

943
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 5: analysts wars, and it's to stop on the war by

944
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 5: the way, on Christianity. And that's what we have to

945
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 5: come together on. So thank you for that question. It's

946
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 5: very insightful.

947
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 3: Any other I got comments?

948
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 8: Uh, you know, so maybe putting myself in the squishy

949
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 8: Republican camp.

950
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 3: I mean, one of the.

951
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 8: Issues you always have in life is, you know, will

952
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 8: you adopt the tactics of your enemy?

953
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 3: When should you do that? It's a question is at the.

954
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 8: Core of Lord of the rings, right, will you seize

955
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 8: the ring of power to use against the enemy and

956
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 8: so on. It's a very tough question to answer, and

957
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 8: it's very tough to know when you have reached that

958
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 8: point where that's really the alternative.

959
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 3: You have to do.

960
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 8: You know, one of the best things I think Trump

961
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 8: did that for which she never got any credit, was

962
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 8: shortly after he took offviously said we're not going to

963
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 8: lock up Hillary Clinton. So that was kind of a

964
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 8: fun thing on the campaign trailer. It's just like a joke,

965
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 8: you know. It was kind of like good humor, you know,

966
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 8: and expressing the fact that we're not very happy with

967
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 8: her and we think she may have in fact violated

968
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 8: the law, but you know, we're not going to try to.

969
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 3: Take out this vindictiveness on our opponents.

970
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 8: He didn't get a lot of thanks for that or

971
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 8: much praise. He was not reciprocated in that. And you

972
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 8: see that where I just reminded very vaguely of you know,

973
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 8: the Antebellum period and the rise of the Republican Party.

974
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 3: Then you had all kinds of.

975
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 8: Violence in Congress and people getting you know, people are

976
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 8: familiar with a lot of people with Charles Sumner the

977
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 8: Center from Massachusetts being caned nearly to death on the

978
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 8: floor of the Senate. But there was a lot of

979
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 8: violence in Congress. Fist sites that would break out, threats

980
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 8: with guns and so on. And one of the early

981
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 8: reasons for the rise of the Republican Party was people saying, finally,

982
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 8: we want somebody who's going to go in there and

983
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 8: be tough fight back against those slaveholder types who are

984
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 8: used to you know, they're trying to push us around

985
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 8: just like their slaves and stuff, and.

986
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 3: So we you know, really idea, but it is.

987
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 8: It is a very you know, and of course we

988
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 8: ended up with the Civil War well good, bad, you know,

989
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 8: and the ugly. It's a very, very tough decision to make.

990
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 8: So I don't think we should be too harsh on

991
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,479
Speaker 8: people who have not hit the point where they're ready

992
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 8: to say, you know, we need to adopt their tactics.

993
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 8: And I think it is at some point a utilitarian

994
00:59:58,320 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 8: question is.

995
00:59:58,840 --> 00:59:59,919
Speaker 3: This the only way to stop?

996
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 8: But I'm not sure it is, because you know, oftentimes

997
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 8: the end result of taking that approach is that the

998
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 8: other side just ramps up its tactics, and you know,

999
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 8: you see that people make the argument like Byron mentioned

1000
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 8: the filibuster deal when they brought busted the filibuster for

1001
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 8: judicial nominees so they could add all these people to

1002
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,959
Speaker 8: the DC circuit, and the argument, hey, you may regret this, well,

1003
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 8: I mean they do regret it because Trump was able

1004
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 8: to get people on the Supreme Court without having them filibustered.

1005
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 8: But I'm not sure they really regret it. I think

1006
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 8: they viewed as well, we got the d C Circuit.

1007
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 8: Not many cases actually get to the Supreme Court, and

1008
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 8: you know, when we get the presidency back, we're just

1009
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 8: going to cram through our people. I mean, I don't

1010
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 8: know that you get the reaction you always think you're

1011
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 8: going to get. And that's one reason that you have

1012
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 8: to be cautious about that. I honestly don't know what

1013
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 8: the right answer is and when to step forward. And

1014
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 8: I would say I would disagree with the notion that

1015
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 8: Republicans did nothing. Jim Jordan, my former student, I'm proud

1016
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 8: to say, you know, led numerous investigations. Others in the

1017
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 8: House did as well. They got a lot of information

1018
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 8: out there. The fact that it's not reported on by

1019
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 8: the press, the fact that it doesn't deter Democratic officials,

1020
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 8: I'm not sure I would dismiss that as nothing or

1021
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 8: refusal to take action.

1022
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 6: So let me be clear exactly about what they did

1023
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 6: not do.

1024
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 5: What they did not do is repudiate the formation of

1025
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 5: the original January sixth Committee.

1026
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 6: They're very clear rules as to.

1027
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 5: How such committees should be formed, and those rules are

1028
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 5: designed to preserve bipartisanship and objectivity. And what's supposed to

1029
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 5: happen is you are supposed to have an even balance

1030
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 5: on the committee of the parties, with whichever party in

1031
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 5: power to have a slight edge. What's supposed to happen

1032
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 5: is you're supposed to have a ranking member. And what's

1033
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 5: supposed to happen is that when subpoenas are issued, there's

1034
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 5: supposed to be a process whereby there's bipartisan.

1035
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 6: Input on that.

1036
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 5: What Nancy Pelosi did was unprecedented, unprecedented in the history

1037
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 5: of our republic. What she did was essentially circumvent congressional

1038
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 5: law to set up a committee which had two few

1039
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 5: members that was consistent. Consisted of seven Democrats, most of

1040
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 5: whom had been involved with both impeachments, and two Republicans

1041
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 5: who were truly Republicans in name only Liz Cheney, who

1042
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 5: had an axe to grind in Adam Kinsinger, both of

1043
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 5: whom are gone now. Neither one of them were approved

1044
01:02:55,240 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 5: by the minority. Kevin McCarthy was the person at the time,

1045
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 5: and he had put forth five members to put on

1046
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 5: that committee, including Jim Jordan, my friend. And what should

1047
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 5: have been done immediately after the election and the gavel

1048
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 5: moved over to the Republicans, is that that committee should

1049
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 5: have been repudiated and what the evidence that they had

1050
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 5: gathered should have been ordered released to the public.

1051
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 6: It was not repudiated.

1052
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 5: There's still something on the desk of Jim Jordan and

1053
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 5: James Comber and those folks sitting there rotting.

1054
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:43,959
Speaker 4: Well.

1055
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 5: Donald Trump hangs in the winds. Steve Bannons in prison

1056
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 5: and I got out and there's there and so what

1057
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 5: that what that does is it sets a precedent, and

1058
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 5: so when so the Republicans can go in and start

1059
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 5: supenion Democrats. And what we need there's only one word.

1060
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 5: It's not retribution. It's accountability. It's accountability. If we do

1061
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 5: not get accountability, we will get what we've got. So

1062
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 5: this is not a time to be timid. And I

1063
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 5: don't think I don't think it's a close call on

1064
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 5: this one, not at all.

1065
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 11: Okay, we have a question over here, please, Yes, this

1066
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 11: has to do with using their weapons against them. We've

1067
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 11: had an administration that, among other things, has dumped thousands

1068
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 11: of known felons in red districts. Couldn't we have some

1069
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 11: of these district attorneys and solidly Republican counties bring charges.

1070
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 11: I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like

1071
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 11: these ought to be crimes committed by majorcas and the

1072
01:04:54,640 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 11: president and other folks. My point being that they use

1073
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 11: local you know, officials to bring charges against us, why

1074
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 11: can't we do the same thing.

1075
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 5: This is what we want to avoid, to be honest,

1076
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 5: I mean, this is the kind of crap that that's

1077
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 5: going to stop us from dealing with with big problems.

1078
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 5: But but I think, I think the accountability issue, if

1079
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 5: you look at what's happened to me, it's a clear

1080
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 5: clay case of election interference. Okay, every everything that's transpired

1081
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 5: with Garland Smith Bragg willis even the judges like mar

1082
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 5: Shawn Okay, if it can be shown, as I believe

1083
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 5: it is, that there was any kind of tacit or

1084
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 5: explicit collusion or coordination between any of that, then it's

1085
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 5: clear that that's election interference and they need to be prosecuted.

1086
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 5: I'm not looking for little here, but I do believe

1087
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 5: that there should be a case made against Garland Smith

1088
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 5: Bragg and willis for election interference.

1089
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 6: See, that's what they're doing. That's what they're doing.

1090
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 3: I just have to I wasn't gonna I was gonna

1091
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 3: let this go.

1092
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 8: I have there's no general crime against election interference. You

1093
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 8: actually have to have a specific crime. And there may

1094
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 8: be ethical rules, and there may be other things that

1095
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 8: people are not allowed to do. But the fact that

1096
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 8: a bunch of people get together and at least if

1097
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 8: they're acting within their legal authority, even if they're abusing

1098
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 8: their legal authority, it's not clear that that's a crime.

1099
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 8: It may just be something voters hopefully would take into account,

1100
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 8: but unfortunately, for example, New York City voters won't. But

1101
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 8: you can't just go around saying they interfered with the election.

1102
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 8: Let's prosecute them.

1103
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 3: Tell me what the actual crime is.

1104
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 8: Don't Donald Trump them and say, oh, well, you know,

1105
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 8: we think he was doing something and they and they

1106
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 8: kind of hinge together. This Jerry Mannard theory. Now, maybe

1107
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 8: you know, maybe that takes us back to the earlier

1108
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 8: discussion do you want do you want your conservative prosecutors

1109
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 8: and legislators and so on to take to adopt the

1110
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 8: other side's tactics?

1111
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 3: Maybe you do.

1112
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 8: It's a very tough argument. But the point is, even

1113
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 8: if you do, you still got to get a crime.

1114
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 8: You still got to find the crime someplace. So that's

1115
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 8: the tough question that we're faced with at this point

1116
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 8: in time. And I would not say, for example, even

1117
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 8: in the House, that they did nothing.

1118
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 3: They did repudiate the January sixth committee. What can they do?

1119
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 3: What are they supposed to do?

1120
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 8: Try to burn every copy of the report that exists?

1121
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, so we have to get realistic

1122
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 8: about what we're trying to do, sir.

1123
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 5: If they had, if they had repudiated that early, Bannon

1124
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 5: would not be in prison, Sir, I don't know, would

1125
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 5: not be in prison.

1126
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 3: I don't understand it. You mean Peter in prison? Peter,

1127
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 3: I don't understand, sir.

1128
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 6: Was that the.

1129
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 12: Committee was illegally formed and duly authorized.

1130
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 3: I don't understand what you mean.

1131
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 12: Ken on day one had said yeah, it was unduly

1132
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 12: authorized and improperly constituted, Bannon would not have been convicted.

1133
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 3: I don't know, sir.

1134
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 6: See that. Please.

1135
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 8: You're obviously not going to let me respond, but I'll

1136
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,360
Speaker 8: try to respond. I don't know that that's the case.

1137
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 8: In fact, I don't think it is. Kevin McCarthy pulled

1138
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 8: his five Republicans from the committee when Pelosi wouldn't seat

1139
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 8: the people exactly.

1140
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 3: That he wanted. I mean, I don't know what it means.

1141
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:40,679
Speaker 8: To say they should repudiate the report, what legal effect

1142
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,679
Speaker 8: that has. It seems to me Republicans have been pretty

1143
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 8: clear about that. So that's the issue that we have

1144
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 8: to come to grips with, is we're dealing with the

1145
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 8: abuse of legal processes. But that doesn't mean you can

1146
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:54,679
Speaker 8: just make stuff up and say they're abusing the process.

1147
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:55,439
Speaker 3: Let's get them.

1148
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 8: You've got to have the legal hook that's going to work,

1149
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 8: and that's what you have to do.

1150
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,719
Speaker 3: And it's terrible what happened, Peter, It's terrible it happened

1151
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 3: to other.

1152
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 8: People, right, But you can't just respond by saying, well,

1153
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 8: if only Kevin McCarthy had done something.

1154
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 3: What what was he supposed to do? Was he supposed to

1155
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 3: go Caine Nancy Pelosi on the floor of the House

1156
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:13,799
Speaker 3: or something.

1157
01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 8: Okay, if that's where you are, I will tell you

1158
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 8: flat out I'm not there. I'm not there, And nor

1159
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 8: am I proud to be speaking for a group where

1160
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 8: a lot of people are there.

1161
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 3: But if you want to go cane people in the house, great,

1162
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 3: you go to it.

1163
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 4: I think we're gonna let me think we're going to

1164
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 4: move on to the next I think we're going to

1165
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 4: move on to the next question.

1166
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,679
Speaker 3: I think it would be better if over here.

1167
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,760
Speaker 9: I don't know it's a non combatant in this I

1168
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,719
Speaker 9: do want to do. You want to say one thing,

1169
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 9: which is it's it's not an accident that a lot

1170
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 9: of these prosecutions of Trump have come from New York.

1171
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 9: The Egen Carol lawsuit was in New York. The Leticia

1172
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:57,440
Speaker 9: James lawsuit was in New York. The Alvin Bragg prosecution

1173
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:03,680
Speaker 9: was in New York. These were places where elected officials,

1174
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 9: elected Democratic officials exceeded, in my view of their authority,

1175
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:10,439
Speaker 9: but there was nobody going to stop them because the

1176
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 9: whole system was that way. And the other cases we've

1177
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:19,679
Speaker 9: seen was an elected Democratic prosecutor in Fulton County, Georgia,

1178
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 9: and then two cases from the prosecutor chosen by the

1179
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 9: Biden Justice Department.

1180
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 2: And so the Georgia case has kind of fallen apart.

1181
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 9: But the only case that has found itself outside of

1182
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 9: the enclaves of New York or the District of Columbia,

1183
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:42,679
Speaker 9: which Mark Stein very eloquently talked about the justice system

1184
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 9: in Washington, d C. The only one was this case

1185
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 9: in Florida, the classified documents case, which the Trump attackers

1186
01:10:53,200 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 9: could not count on a fully partisan situation. The one

1187
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:04,600
Speaker 9: problem I think you have when you say, well, Republicans

1188
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:06,639
Speaker 9: need to give them a taste of their own medicine

1189
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:09,760
Speaker 9: is you have to look at the specific circumstances that

1190
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 9: these people used, which was one party jurisdictions where they

1191
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 9: could just do what they wanted, and that probably won't

1192
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 9: be replicated very much in the future. But you do

1193
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 9: have to remember the incredible partisan advantage to Democrats in

1194
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 9: New York, New York State and in the Biden Justice

1195
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 9: Department managed to push these with which they managed to

1196
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 9: push these cases through.

1197
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 6: I have time for one last question here.

1198
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 7: I don't know if this is going to help the

1199
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:48,720
Speaker 7: situation at all. It has been an extraordinary panel. You

1200
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 7: all have explained to us how how horrific the situation is.

1201
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 7: You have all said over and over again they should

1202
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 7: have it was against the law, they violated all the principles,

1203
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 7: and then you have summed up what the critical question

1204
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 7: is now what do we do about it? I describe

1205
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,719
Speaker 7: it in a more benign way. It's we're playing cricket

1206
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 7: and they're playing Australian rugby.

1207
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 6: So how do you get that together?

1208
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 7: You have one side that has rules, clearly stated rules,

1209
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 7: moral rules that have grounded this country for cent a century,

1210
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 7: two centuries, and then you have the other side that

1211
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 7: totally ignores all the rules. When I talked to the

1212
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 7: young lawyer who did the Dobs case before the Supreme

1213
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 7: Court and said, what do we do patients? Patients work

1214
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:47,439
Speaker 7: on it, keep trying. And then I said to him,

1215
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 7: the Dark Ages lasted six hundred years? Is that what

1216
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:54,679
Speaker 7: you mean by patients? So, yes, it is a dilemma.

1217
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 7: They're immoral, they're doing illegal things.

1218
01:12:57,640 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 2: What do we do?

1219
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 7: Pray?

1220
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:11,639
Speaker 3: Who wants to take that one on? That's the issue,

1221
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:12,960
Speaker 3: That's exactly the issue.

1222
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:15,480
Speaker 5: I think we have a split between the Old Testament

1223
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 5: over on this side and the New Testament over there.

1224
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 5: You know, that's why we have good discussions. When you

1225
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 5: leave here, you can choose kind of what you do.

1226
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 5: But what do we do here? Is I do believe

1227
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 5: that that if President Trump gets elected, his first priorities

1228
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 5: or the economy, foreign policy, securing the border, dealing with

1229
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 5: crime in our cities, and restoring our energy dominance. But

1230
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 5: we can walk and chew gum at the same time,

1231
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 5: and we damn well have better hold those people accountable

1232
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 5: for what they did, and it can be done under

1233
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:56,639
Speaker 5: the current laws. I humbly disagree with my colleague there.

1234
01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 5: Election interference can be it's trewed right now under the

1235
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 5: law as being against the law. After all, didn't they

1236
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 5: accuse Trump of that? Didn't they accuse him of that?

1237
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:11,640
Speaker 4: So we can do that too, if I could, If

1238
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 4: I could just follow up on that point and see

1239
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 4: if uh, there's a commentary on this, if I understand

1240
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 4: the Georgia case, which I don't pretend to understand, and detail, Uh,

1241
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 4: didn't they use a rico a Rico like statute there

1242
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 4: to sort of turn into a take a generalized accusation

1243
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:34,439
Speaker 4: of election interference? Uh, in somewhat like the like the

1244
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:38,720
Speaker 4: way that Peter is talking about. And might uh, I'm

1245
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 4: not necessarily advocating that, but might that not be a

1246
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:46,360
Speaker 4: legal mechanism or a legal vehicle to pursue claims like this?

1247
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:51,680
Speaker 8: Well, they tied Let me let me just I mean,

1248
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 8: they tied it to a specific part of the election code.

1249
01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 8: Now I think they twisted that section of the code

1250
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 8: and they set it and but that takes us back

1251
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 8: to the quiquestion again again. First, you've got to have

1252
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:03,640
Speaker 8: the section of the code. You got to have an

1253
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:07,200
Speaker 8: actual offense. And then you know, how much are you

1254
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 8: willing to twist the law to get to that offense.

1255
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:13,800
Speaker 8: And that's the question, and that's the question everybody's got

1256
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 8: to decide at some point.

1257
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 3: I just suggest that it is a really big step, not.

1258
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 8: Necessarily wrong step, I honestly don't know, but it's a

1259
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 8: big step to say, yeah, we're going to be like them,

1260
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 8: We're going to use their tactics. There may be times

1261
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:27,560
Speaker 8: when you need to do that in life, though, and

1262
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:29,639
Speaker 8: so each person's got to think about that.

1263
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,599
Speaker 3: But even then, you've got to have an offense.

1264
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 8: You know, even in New York they had something they

1265
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:38,080
Speaker 8: could start to hook this little daisy chain onto, and

1266
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 8: you've got to have that somewhere.

1267
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:42,679
Speaker 9: But in the present moment, the first thing the only

1268
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:44,479
Speaker 9: thing you can really do is win the election.

1269
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 2: Yeah if.

1270
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think we can agree this is this

1271
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 4: is a debate that we'd like to get to have

1272
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 4: in a couple of months, and so I'd like to

1273
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:05,280
Speaker 4: thank our panelists and let everybody know that we have

1274
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 4: lunch that will follow in the room over there. Thank

1275
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:12,479
Speaker 4: you very much.

1276
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:16,679
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1277
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:21,000
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1278
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1279
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1280
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1281
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1282
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1284
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1285
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1286
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