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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert lamp and I'm Julie Ducklas, and

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Speaker 1: this week we're talking about memory editing. And if this

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Speaker 1: were your average science journalism story, you would inevitably start

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Speaker 1: with a reference to Eternal Sunshine of the Spot Spot

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Speaker 1: was Mine. You know, have you have you noticed this trend?

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Speaker 1: Like any story that relates at all to changing memories

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Speaker 1: or racing memories, they will name drop that film in

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Speaker 1: the lead. Well, because it was such an intriguing idea

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Speaker 1: that you could, uh you could alter or completely remove

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Speaker 1: a memory that had been dogging you your entire life. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's true. But I you know, I feel like there

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Speaker 1: have been enough stories about like changing memories and and

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Speaker 1: and and what memories actually are, that we don't need

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Speaker 1: that film as the reference point anymore for an actual

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Speaker 1: story about the science of memory and the science of

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Speaker 1: altering memory. I always feel like a little bit insulted.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's like someone's like, hey, so if you've

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Speaker 1: seen let me tell you about space. You've seen Star Wars, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to start with Star wars. We live

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Speaker 1: in a the world. We're surrounded by space, alright, Alright,

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Speaker 1: so I think, and maybe I'm projecting my own feelings

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Speaker 1: on here, is that the problem is that the spotless

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Speaker 1: mind idea is it's erroneous. And it takes this idea

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Speaker 1: that you could like return your mind to some pristine

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Speaker 1: platonic state, right where everything is completely new and fresh.

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Speaker 1: But that is not the case. Our minds are the

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Speaker 1: cages that we have. But it turns out that we

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Speaker 1: can actually tame them to a certain degree. We can't erase,

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Speaker 1: we can't make them spotless, but we can make them

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Speaker 1: a little bit more manageable. The problem is just just

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Speaker 1: this inherent misunderstanding of what memory is in the first place.

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Speaker 1: And I was looking at this survey that was published

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Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven by PLS so one found that

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Speaker 1: almost two thirds of Americans believe that memory works like

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Speaker 1: a video camera and that it's like we're recording events

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Speaker 1: so we can review them later. Yeah, it's not so

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Speaker 1: at all. And we've we've discussed the science of memory

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Speaker 1: um a good bit in previous episodes. Off to make

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Speaker 1: sure I throw some of those back up on the

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Speaker 1: website and on the social media pages around the time

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Speaker 1: this episode publishes. But indeed, we've talked before about the

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Speaker 1: seven Sins of memory. Uh. These of course were brought

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Speaker 1: to mind by Daniel Shackter, the former chair of Harvard

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Speaker 1: University Psychology Psychology Department and author of the book The

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Speaker 1: Seven Sins of Memories Cohen How the Mind forgets and remembers,

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Speaker 1: and he mentions, uh, these seven just seven ways that

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Speaker 1: all our memories are uh untrustworthy at the very least.

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Speaker 1: For instance, there's transience, So that's the weakening or loss

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Speaker 1: of memory over time. What you have for lunch eight

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Speaker 1: years ago today, the side of sweet potatoes there human

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Speaker 1: sprinkling on top. Okay, well that was a really good

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Speaker 1: sandwich apparently, so that was stuck with you. But for

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Speaker 1: the most part, these memories just fade over time. It's

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Speaker 1: just how it works. And then there's absent mindedness. Uh

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Speaker 1: so this involves attention in memory. We're just not paying

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Speaker 1: attention to what's going on around it, so we're not

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Speaker 1: getting all the data. There's blocking, that's the failed attempt

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Speaker 1: to recall tidbits of memory a face, a name, Etceterates

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Speaker 1: on the tip of my tongue. But I can't remember

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Speaker 1: what it is. Uh. There's misattribution. This is when we

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Speaker 1: recall an authentic memory, but then aspects of it are misattributed.

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Speaker 1: And this includes scenarios such as incorrect incorrect time or

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Speaker 1: place identity, misattribution, or confusion over the originator of an idea.

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Speaker 1: We've all had those conversations where you're telling a story

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Speaker 1: about something that you think happened to you and it

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Speaker 1: turns out it's happening to the person you you're you're

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Speaker 1: speaking to, or you have some very pivotal detail of

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Speaker 1: the story completely backwards, like oh, that trip that wasn't

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Speaker 1: a trip I took with this person, was a trip

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Speaker 1: I took with this person. It wasn't this past girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: it was this past girlfriend, or you know, whatever the

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Speaker 1: scenario might be. And then there's suggestibility. Our minds are

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Speaker 1: and our memories entirely susceptible yes to to suggestions. So

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Speaker 1: you were to say it enough times, I might either

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Speaker 1: actually get a astronomy sandwich for lunch or falsely remember

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Speaker 1: that I had one. There's bias, uh, and that you

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Speaker 1: see this all the time in people's memories of crimes.

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Speaker 1: If they have a particular bias in mind regarding uh uh, say,

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Speaker 1: the racial profiling of suspects, then that's going to have

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Speaker 1: an influence on how they remember the crime that occurred.

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Speaker 1: And then there's persistence, and that's the unwanted recall of

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Speaker 1: information that's disturbing and that actually ties in a lot

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Speaker 1: with what we're gonna talk about in this episode. So

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Speaker 1: there are all these ways that our memory is pretty

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Speaker 1: much jack from the get go. And to your your point,

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Speaker 1: so many people think it's just all a bunch of

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Speaker 1: video information and stored in her head, which which couldn't

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Speaker 1: be further from the truth. Yeah, there's that great cognitive

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Speaker 1: psychology experiment that was done by Daniel Simon's and Christopher

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Speaker 1: Chebery's that showed how selective attention works. You probably heard

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Speaker 1: about this. There's a video of people with white shirt

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Speaker 1: song and a video of people with black shirt song

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Speaker 1: and they were playing I think basketball or something like. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I watched it, but I really wasn't paying that much attention. Okay,

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Speaker 1: well then you if you were, if you were doing

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Speaker 1: it as as they instructed, you were probably looking at

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Speaker 1: the white shirted team, right. You were told to really

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Speaker 1: figure out how many passes were made between the members

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Speaker 1: of this white shirted team and you probably, as participants did,

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Speaker 1: did not notice the gorilla walking through the clutch of

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Speaker 1: white shirted and black short players. So this is a

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Speaker 1: good example of attention and selective attention and memory. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are a number of these type of pranks that

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Speaker 1: you see carried out and that you can find them

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Speaker 1: on YouTube once where they'll take say an individual will

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Speaker 1: be sort of in the background for a person and

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Speaker 1: then they'll like switch out the person playing that part

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Speaker 1: to see if they notice. And it's it's phenomenal how

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Speaker 1: how often people do not notice. Um. There's a British

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Speaker 1: television series called The Black Mirror, which we've mentioned before,

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Speaker 1: and there's an episode titled The Entire History of You,

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Speaker 1: and in this near future sci fi vision of reality,

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Speaker 1: most people have this little electronic device called a grain

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Speaker 1: implanted uh in their brain and it basically collects constant

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Speaker 1: video of their life and then you can go back

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Speaker 1: and replay the video, which of course ends up having

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Speaker 1: disastrous um consequences for the characters in this particular episode.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's very interesting that model because they they

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Speaker 1: in this episode they create a sci fi technological version

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Speaker 1: of memory that is in keeping with the with the

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Speaker 1: way most people think memory is right, and in fact

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Speaker 1: it's not. As you said, there are seven sins of memory.

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Speaker 1: And really, if you think about it, we are the

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Speaker 1: magicians of memory because we have misdirection and misp misperception,

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Speaker 1: and then we try to piece together this pattern that

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Speaker 1: makes sense to us, and boom, you have this manufactured

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Speaker 1: reality that comes out on a plate for you. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the thing is is that we continue to take

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Speaker 1: this memory out and look at it all the time.

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Speaker 1: In fact, every time you take out a memory, you

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Speaker 1: change it a bit. Yes, yeah, I've we mentioned before

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Speaker 1: that don't think of your memory as a little stone

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Speaker 1: sculpture that you keep in a drawer. It's a sculpture

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Speaker 1: made out of clay. Every time you take it out,

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Speaker 1: you're jabbing it, you're changing it. You're bringing new information,

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Speaker 1: new interpretation into that memory. And then you put it back.

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Speaker 1: And so so every time you draw it out, you're

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Speaker 1: you're changing, you're getting it a little bit further removed

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Speaker 1: from the actual reality. And here's the thing. These memories

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Speaker 1: are the foundation of the story of who you are, right,

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Speaker 1: and so this is where emotional health and something called

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Speaker 1: story editing comes in because there's this idea that you

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Speaker 1: can change your memory and maybe even alter your future.

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Speaker 1: And we'll get more into that, but before we do,

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Speaker 1: I want to discuss a little bit about why we

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Speaker 1: take these memories out in the first place and sort

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Speaker 1: of obsess over them. And in order to do that,

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Speaker 1: you gotta go to Papa Freud. Yeah, and it's great because,

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Speaker 1: in classic Freud's style, he goes right to your childhood, right,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah. In fact, um, in beyond the pleasure principle,

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Speaker 1: Freud actually documents his grandson's particular habit of taking his

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Speaker 1: toys and hiding them or throwing them away. And when

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Speaker 1: he does that, um, his grandson says forth, meaning gone.

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Speaker 1: And then he watches his grandson um taking them back

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Speaker 1: and saying, dah, they're here. So, in this one particular

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Speaker 1: instance and beyond the pleasure principle, his grandson has like

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Speaker 1: I think, it's just like a real with a string

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Speaker 1: tied to it, and he's in his crib and over

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Speaker 1: and over again he does the dog game. He throws

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Speaker 1: that spool away and then he reels it back in.

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Speaker 1: And so what Freud says is that the kid is

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Speaker 1: actually um marking a cultural achievement here because the kid

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Speaker 1: is equating this and just stay with me on this,

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Speaker 1: uh that this fort doab has gone and back with

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Speaker 1: his mom and his mom leaving him but coming back

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Speaker 1: and saying that he's getting far more pleasure from the

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Speaker 1: daw part the coming back part, and so he's mastering

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Speaker 1: control over his emotions at his mother sometimes disappearing or

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Speaker 1: having to leave the room. And this idea that that

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Speaker 1: you know, your your main caregiver might not come back

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Speaker 1: or come back, that's that's pretty fascinating uh interpretation, and

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Speaker 1: especially since the father of a nearly two year old

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Speaker 1: who's really into that the whole casting of objects and

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Speaker 1: then also playing hide and go seek with like a

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Speaker 1: stuffed cat and that we have in the house. It

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Speaker 1: really loves to be who go, Where's where's fat cat?

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Speaker 1: Where's fat cat go? Oh? Well, fat cats under the

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Speaker 1: slide and then it's you know, tremendously um entertaining to

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Speaker 1: him defined the cat that was barely hidden. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: this is a huge lesson for humans that life is ephemeral.

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Speaker 1: Things come, things go, people come, and people go, And

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Speaker 1: this really ties into the idea of repetition compulsion and mastery,

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Speaker 1: and maybe, just maybe that's why we continue to take out,

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Speaker 1: in particular traumatic memories bother some memories, and we look

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Speaker 1: at them and examine them over and over again, each

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Speaker 1: time hoping to get a better understanding. But the problem

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Speaker 1: is that, especially according to Freud, those memories are unconscious.

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Speaker 1: They are buried and they are hidden, and so you

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Speaker 1: just kind of get these little crumbs of your unconscious.

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Speaker 1: But then you have someone by the name of Timothy D. Wilson,

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Speaker 1: this is a University of Virginia psychologists, who says this

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Speaker 1: unconscious or unconscious as he calls it, is off limits

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Speaker 1: to us. So it's really only through conscious thoughts that

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Speaker 1: we can change the mechanisms of the unconscious world for us. Mm.

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Speaker 1: So he has this idea of, for instance, if you

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Speaker 1: establish regular acts of kindness, that you could tease out

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Speaker 1: progressive changes in behavior as determined by your unconscious. So

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Speaker 1: now we're talking about changing your behavior through your story

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Speaker 1: of yourself. Yes, yes, yeah, And this is what this

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Speaker 1: is where everything really gets interesting here, because essentially we

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Speaker 1: are getting into that eternal sunshine of the spotless mind territory.

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Speaker 1: But instead of changing your memories through the use of

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Speaker 1: lasers or or a little bit of a little tiny

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Speaker 1: electronic device that goes in your brain as in Black Mirror.

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Speaker 1: It's about thinking about it is that I'm using your

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Speaker 1: actual mental architecture as it exists, your actual mental machinery, uh,

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Speaker 1: that you have in your head, and using it to

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Speaker 1: alter memory, using the weakness of memory as a strength.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, and it's really effective, as we will discuss UM.

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Speaker 1: Wilson in his two thousand eleven book Redirect, The Surprising

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Speaker 1: New Science of Psychological Change, looks at why programs like

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Speaker 1: Scared Straight, you know, the taking the at risk youth

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Speaker 1: to prisons and trying to scare them straight, why those

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Speaker 1: sort of programs fail, and why story editing just having

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Speaker 1: those kids change their story, their narrative maybe a far

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Speaker 1: more effective strategy. Yeah. Yeah, I've been reading a little

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Speaker 1: bit about this, uh to it in regards to children,

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Speaker 1: like the dangers of labeling um, particularly reading an article

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Speaker 1: on biting and about how just the one thing they

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Speaker 1: always advises and dealing with biting, which which is a

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Speaker 1: pretty common occurrence with with children, especially as their acquiring

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Speaker 1: language and learning how to better express themselves, uh than

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Speaker 1: by simply you know, fighting into something is that. But

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Speaker 1: there's there's always this danger of referring to them as

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Speaker 1: a bitter, because then that comes their story and they

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Speaker 1: can interpret interpret that, even at a very young age,

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Speaker 1: and they say, oh, I'm a buyer, So I bite

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Speaker 1: in the same way that one might think, oh, well

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Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm destined to wind up in a

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Speaker 1: in a prison, so I guess I will. This is

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Speaker 1: the this is what I am. I guess that's what

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be. Well, you know that's interesting because

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Speaker 1: this is that is exactly at This is this idea

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Speaker 1: that you you put this narrative in place and then

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Speaker 1: you follow it to the letter and you become it.

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Speaker 1: And Wilson first discovered this power of story editing in

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Speaker 1: the eighties when he found that struggling students had fallen

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Speaker 1: for the same old narrative, I'm bad at school, which

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Speaker 1: was driving this sort of self defeating cycle. And he

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Speaker 1: gave forties students, these students who were not doing well

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Speaker 1: in school a new narrative, which was everyone fails at first. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that recast the whole idea, Wait, what I may

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Speaker 1: not be bad at school? Everyone fails at first. This

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Speaker 1: is a thing. So suddenly these students are being introduced

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Speaker 1: to this new idea. And he had the students read

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Speaker 1: accounts from other students had who had struggled with grades

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Speaker 1: and then improved. There's also videotape footage of other students

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Speaker 1: who relay their tales of eventual academic success. And the

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Speaker 1: results were pretty astounding. The students who received the information,

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Speaker 1: compared to those who did not A were significantly less

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Speaker 1: apt to leave college by the end of their sophomore year.

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Speaker 1: Be they had a significantly greater increase in grade point

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Speaker 1: average even one year after the study. And see they

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Speaker 1: performed significantly better on sample items from the g r

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Speaker 1: E or the Graduate Record Exam. And this is all

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Speaker 1: from a thirty minute session, one thirty minute session which

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Speaker 1: had staying power even one year after. And this just

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Speaker 1: shows you how important priming is really. And I was

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Speaker 1: thinking about this University Michigan study, and this study they

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Speaker 1: had students with the same abilities and perform its splinter

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Speaker 1: into two groups. The first was told that men performed

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Speaker 1: better than women on math tests. The second was told

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Speaker 1: that no matter what they might have heard, there was

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Speaker 1: no difference and abilities among the two genders than they

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Speaker 1: were given the math test, and in the first group,

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Speaker 1: men outscored women by twenty points. In the second group,

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Speaker 1: the one that was told no matter what they had heard,

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Speaker 1: that the abilities are the same, they were outscored only

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Speaker 1: by two points. I mean, that's a huge difference. And

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Speaker 1: that's just from that one priming example and indeed stressing

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Speaker 1: the point of thinking for yourself and questioning authority, not

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Speaker 1: questioning authority in the sense that I'm going to, you know,

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Speaker 1: break a law, just because if they were questioning the

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Speaker 1: established script that is handed down to us about who

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Speaker 1: you are, what you are, what you're capable of achieving.

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Speaker 1: And uh, and yeah, there's just something almost endlessly powerful

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Speaker 1: about being able to to sort of break free of

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Speaker 1: those chains. Yeah. I mean if you think about it,

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Speaker 1: like in in Um some of your most um, how

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Speaker 1: shows it the delicate situations in life where you were

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Speaker 1: really struggling with someone or something, if someone came and

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Speaker 1: gave you as script or just even this this idea,

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Speaker 1: this other narrative of hey, another perception, how could that

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Speaker 1: have changed your life? That's how powerful this is. Now

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Speaker 1: another area that this becomes important again you mentioned earlier

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Speaker 1: how arguably a lot of the stuff is going on

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Speaker 1: into some subconscious level. There's there's say a bad memory,

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Speaker 1: scarring memory, traumatic memory, even that is keeps popping up

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Speaker 1: again and again, this persistent memory, and it's it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like a Rubic's cube, but not a Rubics cube

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Speaker 1: that you ever sit down and say, all right, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna sit down and solve this thing. But it's one

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Speaker 1: that's just always sitting on your desk or is in

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Speaker 1: the drawer that you're always opening, and it's there. It's

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Speaker 1: it's it's seemingly unsolvable and uh, and you may tinker

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Speaker 1: with it for a minute and then put it back.

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Speaker 1: You're right, So your mind is tinkering with it mostly

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Speaker 1: the unconscious level, but every once in a while it surfaces.

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Speaker 1: Can you become aware of this thing that's bothering you?

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Speaker 1: So it just this this persistent um a bit of

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Speaker 1: annoyance or or even just nagging depression. Anytime when we

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Speaker 1: we cover a topic like this, always think back to

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Speaker 1: Alan Robe grulay novel Jealousy, and it's a it's an

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Speaker 1: experimental novel. Um. I don't recommend picking up and reading

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Speaker 1: it unless you know what you're getting into. Just style

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Speaker 1: wise because it's a it's a little unorthodox. But the

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Speaker 1: entire novel is this this man who owns a banana plantation,

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Speaker 1: and he's looking through Venetian blinds observing his wife and

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out if she's having an affair with

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Speaker 1: the guy who runs the neighboring banana plantation. And and

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Speaker 1: so it's just him poring over what he knows and

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Speaker 1: how little he knows, over and over again, uh, and

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Speaker 1: occasionally observing a smeared centipede on the wall and trying

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Speaker 1: to decide what he should do. And the in spoiler,

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Speaker 1: the entire novel passes and he doesn't decide what he's

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Speaker 1: gonna do. He's just this just this endless nagging frustration

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Speaker 1: over how little he knows and now and and that's

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Speaker 1: kind of what happens in these cases. We have limited

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Speaker 1: amount of information. It's kind of like the cock Snowflake

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Speaker 1: that we talked about Snowflake episode. There's only so much

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Speaker 1: information you may know about a given situation, and unless

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Speaker 1: you actually were to go outside of that bubble of knowledge, um,

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Speaker 1: you're never going to solve it. So so again, these

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Speaker 1: these problems, these memories, these uh, they just exist there

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Speaker 1: in the in the peripheries, and and it's only through

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Speaker 1: actually tackling them that we can alter them into a

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Speaker 1: shape that fits in and kind of vanishes into the background. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break, and when we get back,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about how you can actually get

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Speaker 1: outside of that bubble of knowledge, change your narrative, and

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Speaker 1: perhaps change your life. All Right, we're back, Julie. Have

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Speaker 1: you read The Secret, The Secret, The Secret, the one

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Speaker 1: with the little like the red wax seal on the cover. Uh? No,

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Speaker 1: is that is that a new novel? That's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: the self help thing? Right? Oh? Is this the thing

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Speaker 1: about like if you put a positive vibe out in

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Speaker 1: the world, someone will give you a million dollars? I

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Speaker 1: think so. I have not read it myself, so I'm

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Speaker 1: not privy to the actual secret, but I understand that

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Speaker 1: that's basically the secret that if you put out that

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Speaker 1: positive intergy. I think it is. But it kind of

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Speaker 1: gets into the same area that you see with a

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Speaker 1: lot of self help books, and that's the idea that

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Speaker 1: if you if you believe in something, you can make

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Speaker 1: it real, that you can you can change yourself or

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Speaker 1: even change reality through the strong sense of belief and

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Speaker 1: positive vibes and uh, you know, to a certain extent,

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Speaker 1: there's often a lot of kind of New age hokery

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Speaker 1: going on in that. But as we're going to discuss here,

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Speaker 1: there's also this core of reality as it comes to

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Speaker 1: our ability to manipulate memories. And in this case, it's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily believing in your narrative, it's understanding your narrative.

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Speaker 1: And again, this is why that memory keeps knocking around

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Speaker 1: and saying, hey, look at me, I'm flagged because I'm important.

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Speaker 1: Don't quite understand what's going on here. This is troublesome

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Speaker 1: for me. Right, So there's this other approach to story editing,

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Speaker 1: and it is to write and then rewrite your narrative.

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Speaker 1: James Penna Baker of the University of Texas has pioneered

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Speaker 1: a really expressive writing technique that helps people recover from

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Speaker 1: past traumas by helping them reframe and reinterpret those events.

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Speaker 1: And there's a link that if you just search for

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Speaker 1: writing and help some practical advice, you will see this

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Speaker 1: prompt for writing in the idea is that for four

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Speaker 1: days in a row, fifteen minutes each you take a

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Speaker 1: topic that you that's been bothering you, um, that you

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Speaker 1: really want to explore more about, and you just write

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Speaker 1: about it, and you write really as honestly and as

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Speaker 1: fully as you can. Yeah, and now what would you

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Speaker 1: write about? Some of the examples they give would be

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Speaker 1: to write about something that you're thinking or worrying about

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Speaker 1: too much. So maybe you're worrying about, you know, taxes

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Speaker 1: coming up and to you know, settle down and figure

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Speaker 1: those out. Or uh, you're something that you're dreaming about,

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Speaker 1: Say you wanted to actually do something about that nagging

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Speaker 1: dream where you forgot that you signed up for a

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Speaker 1: class in school until right at the end at finals,

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Speaker 1: you know, or or the the you know, the wearing

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Speaker 1: underwear or nothing to your math class kind of dream.

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Speaker 1: Other possibilities to write about include something you feel is

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Speaker 1: affecting your life in an unhealthy way, be it something

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Speaker 1: you know, like a personal habit, or something outside yourself,

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Speaker 1: or something that you have been avoiding for days, weeks,

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Speaker 1: or years. Tackling at fifteen minutes a day for four

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Speaker 1: days in writing form. Okay, so it's interesting because what

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Speaker 1: happens is that the first time you write, you will

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Speaker 1: might write the thing that's bothering you, and you might

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Speaker 1: touch on the thing that is actually the thing that's

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Speaker 1: bothering you, because most often when you think that there's

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Speaker 1: a topic that that's really the problem, there's an underlying issue,

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Speaker 1: and so returning to that issue four days in a

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Speaker 1: row it gives you more insight. You're peeling away the

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Speaker 1: layers of the onion of of that actual problem, and

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Speaker 1: in the process you're creating some sort of understanding for yourself.

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Speaker 1: You are reframing that narrative so that it makes sense.

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Speaker 1: If something bad happened to you in your past and

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Speaker 1: it keeps coming up again and again, writing about it

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Speaker 1: really forces you to reflect on it and not say, oh,

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Speaker 1: this was justified, it should have happened. That's not what

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Speaker 1: we're saying here. It just gives you more of an

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Speaker 1: understanding of why it happened, and hopefully people suffer less

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Speaker 1: as a result. That's the idea. Yeah, it's um. It's

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Speaker 1: interesting because anyone who's ever engaged in your writing, you

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Speaker 1: see versions of this, say, in trying to create poetry,

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Speaker 1: like any kind of poetry that has like a personal um,

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Speaker 1: a bit of energy to it, And I feel like

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Speaker 1: most poetry of any work does. But one of my

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Speaker 1: poetry professors in college I remember them saying, and this

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Speaker 1: wasn't like a across the board rule, but they tended

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Speaker 1: to imply that you're generally better off removing the first

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Speaker 1: four lines or so of your poem, because the first

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Speaker 1: four lines are your poem. Are you trying to write

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Speaker 1: what you think you're going to write about, and then

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Speaker 1: after you get past those first four lines, then you

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Speaker 1: start writing about what's really going on. So so the

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Speaker 1: first four lines are in this case are the thing

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Speaker 1: that you think you're afraid of, and then you begin

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Speaker 1: to get after that into what you're actually afraid of.

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Speaker 1: I think about it is the quick and dirty way

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Speaker 1: to psychoanalysis. Yeah, yeah, because and I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: share with you what I wrote about, because that would

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Speaker 1: be like revealing a dream and everybody would get bored.

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Speaker 1: But I can tell you that when I did this,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was about this one thing that I

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Speaker 1: thought it was about, but really it was about social rejection.

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Speaker 1: And then it became like, well, what are my relationships

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Speaker 1: like in my life? How's how has this colored this?

429
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: And when did this happen? And when I was a teenager,

430
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: was it like this, And we've discussed about the teenage brain,

431
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: about how social rejection is processes actual physical pain, and

432
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: maybe these things stay with you and so on and

433
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: so forth. And those four days I got a lot

434
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: out of this one tiny little thing that I thought

435
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 1: I was bothered by, but I couldn't figure out why

436
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: I kept dreaming about this thing. And that is really

437
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: a very effective strategy at trying to get at your

438
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: memory and trying to re contextualized your your narrative in

439
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: your life and ultimately perhaps solve this Rubik's cube or

440
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: create a solved Rubik's cube out of these memories and

441
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: then you can put it on the shelf and it's

442
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,719
Speaker 1: not gonna bother you anymore. Uh. When we were prepping

443
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: for this one, we brought up the whole situation of

444
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: why does why does it bother us so much when

445
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: we overhear part of a conversation. We've talked about this before. Uh.

446
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: The reason supposedly is that you're not getting all the

447
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: information about the scenario, and your mind desperately wants to

448
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,719
Speaker 1: make sense of this nugget of weirdness that you just

449
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: listen in on. And that's what some of these memories

450
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: are like that were our mind wants to understand why

451
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: did this happen to me? Why? Why am I afraid

452
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: of this? You know, these questions linger with these troubling,

453
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: persistent memories. Our brains want to figure out the puzzle.

454
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: They want the extra information to make it, make it lock,

455
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: to make the Rubik's Cuba clear out. Uh and uh.

456
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: And what these experiments are about are about taking the

457
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: time to fill them out and to and to add

458
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: the necessary information to make them whold. Yeah, And that's

459
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: why these why these writing pumps are are so effective. Now,

460
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: Wilson says, a third approach is the do good, be

461
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 1: good method. And it's the principle that our attitudes and

462
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: our beliefs follow from our behaviors rather than precede them.

463
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: So if you want to change your narrative, then you

464
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: should change some of the things that you do so

465
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: that it sort of informs your unconscious Like I'm a

466
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: good person and I volunteer you here, and I'm doing this,

467
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm trying to cultivate the following traits

468
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: in my life and everything else should follow well. And

469
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: then I mean also that, in my opinion, often has

470
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: the added benefit if you are if your your problem

471
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: is that you're too much inside your own mental space,

472
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: if you start concerning yourself with other people, then you're

473
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: getting out of that that that self inflicted cage of

474
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: self a bit so, and it is the cage of

475
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: self really really, uh So why does this work? There?

476
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: You know, there's no definitive like it's it's doing this,

477
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: it's engaging the following part of your brain. Probably this

478
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: is the best guess is that it works because again,

479
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: you are completing that picture for yourself. So your brain,

480
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: if you if it doesn't have to red flag and

481
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: memory because it understands it in the context that you've

482
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,239
Speaker 1: put it into the narrative and it's happy with that.

483
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: It can move along and go to the next thing

484
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: that you flagged in your brain. So that's the idea

485
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: of why it works. Yeah, I guess you just need

486
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: to make sure you form the correct, a helpful, finished

487
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: version of that memory. So like if I was concerned

488
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: about the guy about a hot dog from yesterday being grumpy,

489
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: like I would want to frame that in the forum

490
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 1: of well he was he was probably having a bad

491
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: day and just took that out on me, rather than

492
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: I'm a bad person, and therefore hot dog vendors are

493
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: mean to me. They are generally like they I don't

494
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: know if you know, but they have a little slip

495
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: that they circulate among them. That says Robert Lamb. Yeah,

496
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: all right. There's a great article called Revising Your Story

497
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: by Kirsten Weir and uh. She says, basically, if you

498
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: you doubt the story um powers here in these story prompts,

499
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: you should look at this um example by researcher Daphne

500
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: being Nicktoll at the University of California, Santa Barbara. She

501
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: works with parents who are at risk for child abuse,

502
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: and she added some story prompting to home visits of

503
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: parents with newborns, and the prompt involved getting parents to

504
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: reinterpret why their babies were cranky or difficult. So parents,

505
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: for instance, might blame their babies babies and say, oh,

506
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: he's just trying to provoke me. So the home visitor

507
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: would ask parents if they could think of any other reasons,

508
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: prompting them to attribute their baby's behavior to situational factors

509
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: were talking about like maybe you didn't burp him enough,

510
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: so on and so forth, giving them a different narrative

511
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: and among both a control group and those who participated

512
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: in this program about of the parents physically abused their children. Now,

513
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 1: in the group that got the story prompt giving them

514
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: these these other versions of why their babies might be

515
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: acting the way they were, their percentage dropped to four.

516
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: That's again how powerful it is to replace one narrative

517
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: with another. Very cool, Very cool. Now this flows in

518
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 1: nicely to this idea that Carol Dweck presents, this idea

519
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: of fixed versus growth mindset. You want to lay that

520
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: out for everyone here. Yeah, we've talked about Carol Dweck before. UM.

521
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: She she's a psychologist who has talked about the praise

522
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: paradox um. You know this idea that empty praise can

523
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: give your child this for self esteem problem. You think

524
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: the opposite. You think you're saying, hey, you're doing great,

525
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: that your kid's gonna have tons of self esteem, But

526
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: really empty praise isn't constructive and anyway, it builds up

527
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: this whole idea that your kids might be doing something wrong.

528
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: Carol Dwet kind of goes a little bit further into

529
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: this idea of self esteem and um success and she

530
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: talked about how some people have a fixed mindset. They

531
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: believe their intelligence and traits are set in stone, and

532
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: this actually gets in the way of how they see

533
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: the world and they move through it. And she said

534
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: that these people they typically try to to look smart

535
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: um and not make any mistakes, and as a result,

536
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: they don't take any risks. And now, she says, on

537
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: the other hand, you have something called a growth mindset,

538
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: and this means that you're willing to change your narrative

539
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: and cultivate new ideas and talent through effort and instruction.

540
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: So in this way, you see obviously there's a flexibility.

541
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: There's this willingness to say I don't have all of

542
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: the information and I'm going to change my story. And

543
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: she says this allows people to be both more resilient

544
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: and vulnerable at the same time, and able to take

545
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: on more challenges and just kind of, like I said,

546
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: change that narrative of what you your life to be. Yeah,

547
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: I think it's a it's it's a really interesting way

548
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: to look at to two types of people. You know,

549
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: the idea that am I looking at myself as I

550
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: am now, as the finished product, you know, or or

551
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: is it an ongoing journey? And that's kind of I mean,

552
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: I guess that kind of sounds a little new a

553
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: g and hippy dippy, but but really, I mean, life

554
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: is a journey. We continue to change. We're always changing physically, emotionally.

555
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: The person we are now is not the same person

556
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: we were a month ago, a year ago. And and

557
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: so if you if you try and approach your life

558
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: as a fixed object, yeah, you're just going to run

559
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: into increasing um frustration because you're gonna come up against challenges.

560
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: And if you if you think that this is what

561
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: I am and this is all I am, then a

562
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: challenge is an affront to your strength. But if you

563
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: see yourself as changing, as you see yourself as perpetually evolving,

564
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: then a challenge is just another opportunity to grow. Yeah.

565
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: She says that some people have fixed mindsets for for

566
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: some of the things in their life, and then growth

567
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: mindsets for for other things. Yeah. So it's sort of

568
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: one of those self checks of well, you know, my

569
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: flexible in this one area of my life and inflexible

570
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: in the other. But the main thing, she says is

571
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: that things do not come naturally, and that thinking that

572
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: they do is a male adaptive mindset of mal adaptive

573
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: mindset and that we we are looking at it entirely wrong.

574
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: And I can't help but think of the stories that

575
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: we consume, that we feed feed on, you know, to

576
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: to inform who we are and how we fit into

577
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: the world, because there are certainly we can think of

578
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: any number of movies, TV shows, stories, myths in which

579
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: there's an individual with a natural talent, and then how

580
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: healthy is that too? To absorb that story and then

581
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: compare it to our own. Well, I mean, you know,

582
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: it's the matrix, the one. Are you the one? Were

583
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: you born? The one? But then that idea is very

584
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: old and has been perpetuated for for for thousands the

585
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: thousands of years, and I think it's ultimately why we

586
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: we want a film where where we want a story

587
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: where a hero has to work for it, uh, where

588
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: a hero has to has to actually go through a

589
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: training montage in order to defeat the villain, because that's

590
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: more in keeping with life. You're gonna have to work

591
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: for the things that you achieve well and not to

592
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: keep going back to Star Wars and I feel like

593
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: that's been the theme today. But Luke Skywalker, right, didn't

594
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: just fall on the womb, you know, with the force.

595
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: He had to work at it, and Yoda made him

596
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: look a fool over there in Dagoba. Yeah, he lost

597
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: a hand, he did made him a lot of the

598
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: characters in his hands really dark. Did they lost hands?

599
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: If you go through again my daughter's encyclopedia, you will see,

600
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: you know, so and so had their hand repaired. But well, yeah,

601
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: there's Luke, there's Vader. Yeah, um, some dude in the

602
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: bar and the first one Lungin. Maybe I don't know.

603
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: I think you just got run through that one. I'll

604
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: ask my daughter, Okay, get home, all right, Well there

605
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: you go. Story editing. I think this is a great

606
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: episode because it really lays out a very achievable way

607
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: to uh to to do something that might otherwise seem

608
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: like something out of science fiction, a way to change

609
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: our memories, to change the way that we interpret the past.

610
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: Um and uh and so I challenge, you know, anyone

611
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: who is is dealing with with some sort of problem

612
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: in their life to consider trying this out. You know,

613
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 1: don't see it as your only solution, but but give

614
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: it a go and see what what can be done. Yeah,

615
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:30,959
Speaker 1: and if you again, you want to check out that

616
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: story prompt by James Penna Baker. Just google his name

617
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: and then perhaps writing and health some practical advice. All right,

618
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: let's call the robot over here and do a quick

619
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: bit of listener mail. All right, we have a quick

620
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: one from Alex. He says, Hello, Robert and Julie. I

621
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: hope your day is going well. I've been a listener

622
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: of stuff to ab All your Mind for about four months.

623
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: I loved your podcast so much I even went back

624
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: as far as two years ago and listen to your

625
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: allowing your podcast. H First off, let me thank you

626
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: for being so respectful when you talk about cultures and religions.

627
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: This personally means a lot to me. I am not

628
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: religious really, but I am very aware and sensitive when

629
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: talking about religion or culture. Also have a topic for you.

630
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: Guys are sociopath slash psychopaths biologically and neurologically doomed. Is

631
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: there any hope for these unlucky people born this way?

632
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: Is a sociopath psychopath the ultimate apex predator of our species.

633
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: I think this would be a really interesting study, to

634
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: say the least. And Uh. Alex goes on to say,

635
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: thanks for your time, keep doing what you do. Thank you,

636
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: Alex That is very interesting because we talked recently about

637
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: how Luis c. K has a bit in his stand

638
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: up about how we're really lucky that we got out

639
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: of the food chain. We are the apex predator. Now

640
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: we don't have to worry about it, but you know

641
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: one another, we're sort of a problem. We know that

642
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 1: we tend to main and kill each other. And then

643
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: there's this idea psychologically, is someone who's a sociopath who

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Speaker 1: has no community ties, a lack of empathy a predator

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Speaker 1: in a sense. Yeah, that's it's certainly a topic we

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Speaker 1: could explore. I know they were for certain there were

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Speaker 1: at least a couple of really interesting studies to come

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Speaker 1: out on sociopaths uh in the in the past year

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Speaker 1: that that I'd looked podcast on at some point in

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Speaker 1: the future. Indeed, yes, and maybe that will show up

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Speaker 1: fairly soon. All right, So there you have it. If

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00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: you have anything you would like to add on this

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00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 1: topic on other topics, then you know where to find.

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Speaker 1: It's got to stuff to blow your mind dot com.

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00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 1: That's the mothership. That's where you find all the podcast episodes,

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00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: all the videos, all the blog posts, all the lists,

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00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 1: all the galleries, and links out to our various social

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Speaker 1: media sites, including Facebook, Twitter, and Tumbler and Julie. If

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Speaker 1: one wanted to get in touch with us UH in

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00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: a more old fashioned way, where would they find us? Ethan?

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00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: Send your narrative to us that blow the mind at

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Speaker 1: discovery dot com for more on this and thousands of

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Speaker 1: other topics. Is it how Stuff Works dot com