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Speaker 1: The guest today is Ethiopia. Have to marry him. If

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Speaker 1: you have a great to have you here, thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me. So if you go on

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Speaker 1: Spotify and you look at the Spotify top fifty, it's

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Speaker 1: almost completely urban and it's almost completely hip hop. Why

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Speaker 1: do you think that is? Because kids love hip hop music.

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Speaker 1: Kids around the world love hip hop music. It's not

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Speaker 1: just in the US, that's around the world. Do you

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Speaker 1: have a feeling why that is? I mean, Steve Stout

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Speaker 1: says it's a universal language and it's the only music

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Speaker 1: people can make without instruments, and therefore it spread throughout

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Speaker 1: the world. I think that's a part of it. I

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Speaker 1: also think that hip hop is a part of a

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Speaker 1: culture and a lifestyle. Music and fashion really crossed, you know,

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Speaker 1: the cross section is there, and I think around the

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Speaker 1: world you can see kids dressed the same, they listen

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Speaker 1: to the same kinds of music. And I think hip

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Speaker 1: hop has infused every area. Um. Yeah, And I think

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Speaker 1: it's a form of expression that just you know, kids

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Speaker 1: relate to. And where do you think it might be going.

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Speaker 1: I just had this conversation on Sunday. Um. I think

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Speaker 1: that people want music with more substance. I think that

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Speaker 1: kids are really emotional. And I was talking to my

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Speaker 1: god daughter about this, who's sixteen, who I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's really expressive. And she lives in Atlanta, and I

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Speaker 1: talked to her all the time, And when I'm talking

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Speaker 1: to her from l A, she doesn't really open up

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Speaker 1: to me that much. But when I go her social media,

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Speaker 1: I can tell what's going on with her by the

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Speaker 1: lyrics that she's posting. Right, So, kids rely on music

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Speaker 1: to really connect to what they're going through or what

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Speaker 1: they're feeling. And I think that um, they want more

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Speaker 1: substantial music that can represent what they're going through and

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Speaker 1: what they're feeling. And I think that you know, we're

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Speaker 1: seeing all of us are going through a lot. And

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Speaker 1: do you think that pretends I mean, hip hop is

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Speaker 1: going through varying phase. It was a sound of the

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Speaker 1: inner city that it was literally the sound of the

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Speaker 1: streets we have the riots in Then at the end

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Speaker 1: of the MTV era, it was about boats and babes, etcetera. Uh,

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Speaker 1: do you think it's going to in the era of

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Speaker 1: Ferguson and me too? You think it's going to be

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Speaker 1: grittier and more honest definitely. But I think look hip

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Speaker 1: hop is they're different forms of hip hop that exists,

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Speaker 1: is just it's just about what's the most popular at

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Speaker 1: the time. I mean, I think we can look at

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Speaker 1: Spotify today, we see how huge Post Malone's record is,

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Speaker 1: and I think you can see that Post is influenced

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Speaker 1: by a lot of different kinds of music and his

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Speaker 1: hooks are very melodic, um, and you can tell that

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Speaker 1: he's also you know, influenced by country music as well,

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Speaker 1: and he relates to a lot of different kids. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I do think what's gonna come up more is

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Speaker 1: more substantial lyrics. You look at j Cole's record, which

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Speaker 1: cut through in such a big way, and I wasn't

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Speaker 1: really surprised by it because I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: us were having the conversation around it's not just being

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Speaker 1: one kind of hip hop that represented where the culture

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Speaker 1: was us And I think Jay Cole did the perfect

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Speaker 1: record that really um represented what the commercial sound was

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Speaker 1: from a production standpoint, but also lyrically touched on every

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Speaker 1: aspect of where the culture is now. Like there's a

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Speaker 1: little bit too much of one representation of the culture

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Speaker 1: where it can kind of feel like it's a little

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Speaker 1: um comedic in some ways and in other ways, you're

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Speaker 1: like kids are doing drugs and they're only talking about

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Speaker 1: certain aspects of you know, money or etcetera. Because they're

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Speaker 1: really just trying to hide what they really feel. They

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Speaker 1: don't know how to express the emotions that they're dealing with.

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Speaker 1: And I think that he really touched on that with

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Speaker 1: this record, um without without feeling too preachy. But the

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Speaker 1: previous record was kind of a disappointment, right record financially

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Speaker 1: I didn't think so it was pretty Yeah. I know,

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Speaker 1: Jay Cole has been extremely SUCCESSU. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. I'm I'm a big Ja Cole supporter.

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Speaker 1: I signed him when I was at Universal Publishing when

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Speaker 1: he released his second mixtape, The warm Up, before he

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Speaker 1: you know, put out his first album, etcetera. And he's

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Speaker 1: one of the most authentic, realist artists that's been operating

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Speaker 1: and marching to the beat of his own drum and

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Speaker 1: it's been incredible to see. But he's been successful with

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Speaker 1: every record. Okay, so you're from Hotlanta. Okay, why is

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Speaker 1: Atlanta an epicenter of hip hop music? Urban music? I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't even just say urban music Okay, So I'm from Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: All right, I'm first generation Ethiopian American. My parents are

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Speaker 1: from Ethiopia, hence the name Ethiopia. Okay, let's go back there.

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Speaker 1: You've been living for almost forty years with the name Ethiopia.

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Speaker 1: Why why am I having years? Okay? Well, I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to go exactly exactly. You know, has that been

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Speaker 1: a good thing or a bad thing? Okay? So, early years,

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Speaker 1: elementary years, I was in Tuskegee, Alabama. My dad had

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Speaker 1: been the dean of the Vest School there since I

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Speaker 1: was a kid. And during the early eighties that's when

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Speaker 1: you saw all the commercials about the famine in Ethiopia. Right,

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Speaker 1: so you know I'm there. My name is Ethiopia tragic.

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Speaker 1: It was extremely tough for me. So anyone that knows

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Speaker 1: me from Tuskegee, Alabama actually knows me by my middle name,

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Speaker 1: which is haywan Um. And that was because I took

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Speaker 1: it upon myself to change the name while in school,

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Speaker 1: like oh no, I'm not gonna I'm not going through this.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna know me as haywan so Um. Then we

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Speaker 1: moved to Atlanta the summer before my sixth grade year

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Speaker 1: and go to sixth grade Ralph Bunch Middle School in

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Speaker 1: Southwest Atlanta. Who's in my class a group by the

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Speaker 1: name of Criss Cross, and they weren't discovered yet. They

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Speaker 1: got discovered that year. But one of the members of

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Speaker 1: the group, Christmas the lighter skin one with the braids,

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Speaker 1: was one of my really close friends. And they get

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Speaker 1: discovered and become the biggest group in music at the time,

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Speaker 1: and it was crazy, you know what I mean. So

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Speaker 1: Criss Cross happens and it's like right in my backyard,

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Speaker 1: which was fascinating. No, I didn't, but I definitely, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was like super proud of of of them, of him,

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Speaker 1: of what was happening in the scene at the time.

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Speaker 1: And that's when I think I got to see firsthand

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Speaker 1: what was happening in the community. So it was like

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Speaker 1: Jermaine Duprie so so deaf. You saw ABC in Dallas

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Speaker 1: Austin start his you know, kind of run, and to

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Speaker 1: me as a kid, it felt like the biggest thing

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Speaker 1: in the world. I mean, I remembered when Criss Cross

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Speaker 1: was on tour with Michael Jackson. That was crazy, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. It was it was let's go

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Speaker 1: back your parents from Etho or from Ethiopia. How did

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Speaker 1: they end up coming to America? My father, UM, came

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Speaker 1: on scholarship to the University of Colorado. UM, then went

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Speaker 1: back to Ethiopia, married my mother. They went to Canada,

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Speaker 1: had my older brother, and then my father went to

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Speaker 1: get his pH d at u C. Berkeley. My mother

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Speaker 1: went to u C. Davis and UM, yeah, so they

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Speaker 1: came for education. My father was you know, my father

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Speaker 1: didn't really come from much. He was like the one

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Speaker 1: kid out of eight kids to get chosen to go

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Speaker 1: to school. And my mom, on the other hand, came

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Speaker 1: from a very well off family. My grandfather was the

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Speaker 1: first pilot in Ethiopia. UM and um. You know, my

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Speaker 1: dad is ten years older than my mom and um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they fell in love and they're still married. They're still

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Speaker 1: So how many kid children in your family? Three? And

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Speaker 1: where are you in the hierarchy. I'm in the middle. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I'm special because I'm the special because I'm the

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Speaker 1: only girl. So we'll talk about that later. So you

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Speaker 1: you moved from Alabama, you moved to Atlanta, and if

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Speaker 1: you go on line, there was a moment where there

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Speaker 1: was a school presentation that changed the course of your history. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: freshman in high school, there's a career planning class that

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Speaker 1: was a prerequisite, right, And you know I loved music.

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Speaker 1: For me, being this, you know, young kid with the

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Speaker 1: name whatever, I just felt awkward growing up as a

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Speaker 1: lot of people do. Music was how I connected and

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Speaker 1: how I felt like I've related to a lot of

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Speaker 1: other people. Right. So I was always the girl that

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Speaker 1: was like writing down all the lyrics. I was a

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Speaker 1: writer myself. I would journal, et cetera. I loved music.

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Speaker 1: I lived in breathe music. I tried to sing. I

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Speaker 1: sang in talent shows. That didn't really work for me

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Speaker 1: because I'm toning up, you know that whole thing. But um,

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Speaker 1: freshman year in high school, I'm taking this class, the

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Speaker 1: career planning class. And my teacher asked me what I

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Speaker 1: want to do when you had to pick three different things,

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Speaker 1: and everything was music related. But I only knew about

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Speaker 1: music production or what I would read about in the fanzines.

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Speaker 1: I think I said publicity. Um, And at the time

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Speaker 1: she had a woman that Shaunty DAWs, who was the

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Speaker 1: head of promotions for La Face Records at the time,

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Speaker 1: come and speak in our class. And this woman was

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Speaker 1: the coolest, most confident, strong black woman I had ever seen.

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Speaker 1: And she was just, you know, fly to me. I

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Speaker 1: grew up loving like TLC and Aaliyah and like the

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Speaker 1: Fuji's and you know, um that was like my thing is.

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Speaker 1: So I'm saying this woman and she works in promotions,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea what it is. So i go

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Speaker 1: up to her at the end of class and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: can I shadow you for a day? And She's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: if your parents are okay with it. I asked my

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Speaker 1: parents and she let me come shadow her on the

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Speaker 1: day that her assistant was outsick. So I was answering phones,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, right, and and I was good at it.

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Speaker 1: So she said, as you know, I could come up

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Speaker 1: during the summer as long as my parents were okay

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Speaker 1: with them. My parents were like, we need to meet her.

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Speaker 1: And she actually was from my neighborhood. And so she

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Speaker 1: came to my house and met my parents and they

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Speaker 1: gave my blessed, gave gave the blessing and them I

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Speaker 1: interned that summer. And this was like the heyday of

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Speaker 1: the Face was a full record label. I mean, they

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Speaker 1: had they were with Ariston, but they had an and

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Speaker 1: our department, a production department, and marketing department, the video

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Speaker 1: depart I mean they were a full fledged record label

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Speaker 1: and Buckhead Atlanta and at the time they had Outcast

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Speaker 1: TLC Tony Braxton. These were huge artists. Um that summer

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Speaker 1: I got to go to like the Outcast Southern Play

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Speaker 1: Realistic Cookout. I'll never forget it because I got to

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Speaker 1: invite my eight friends. Right, I was like the coolest

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Speaker 1: person ever. And my older brother who was a freshman

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Speaker 1: in college at the time, took me and was like

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Speaker 1: the chaperone and we were doing everything from like stuffing

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Speaker 1: bags whatever. But the work we were doing was just

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Speaker 1: it was incredible to be around it. I remember seeing

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Speaker 1: Biggie Smalls there, Buster Rans there, and this was when

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Speaker 1: Puff was about to start building the you know bad Boy.

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Speaker 1: I remember the Craig the Big Mac tape. It was

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Speaker 1: promoting Craig Mac and Biggie's Malls at the same time.

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Speaker 1: So I was around that as a kid at fourteen.

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Speaker 1: It was it was yeah, it was. It was really incredible,

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Speaker 1: and Outcast to me was, you know, my favorite hip

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Speaker 1: hop group. They were UM produced by a production team

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Speaker 1: called Organized Noise that was also from Southwest Atlanta, who

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Speaker 1: I just had such a high regard for and I

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Speaker 1: loved their you know, their musical talent and gift. And

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Speaker 1: before I could drive, I would have my father drive

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Speaker 1: me on Sundays by their studio because I knew where

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Speaker 1: it was. I'm like, Daddy, can we drive? You know?

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Speaker 1: But because to me it was amazing to know that

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Speaker 1: the music that was touching the world in my eyes

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Speaker 1: was like happening right out of my neighborhood. So it

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Speaker 1: gave me this sense of hope that I could be

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Speaker 1: a part of that in some way. We'll take a

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Speaker 1: quick break and come back with more of my conversation

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Speaker 1: with Ethiopia to Marry Him recording to the Music Media

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Speaker 1: Summit in Santa Barbara, California. This podcast is brought to

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Speaker 1: you by tune In, which brings together all the live, sports, music,

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Speaker 1: news and podcasts you love, original, live and on demanded audio,

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Speaker 1: all in one place. Go to tune in dot com

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Speaker 1: slash left sense to download and listen. Okay, let's get

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Speaker 1: back to my conversation with Ethiopia. Have to marry him

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Speaker 1: in front of a live audience at my Music Media

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Speaker 1: Summit in Santa Barbara, California. Okay, you know, traditionally, growing

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Speaker 1: up with immigrant parents can be difficult. They're strict, they

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Speaker 1: come from a different background. Did you experience any of that, yes,

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Speaker 1: But also so I never got a chance to go

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Speaker 1: back to Ethiopia until I was older, until I was

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Speaker 1: like maybe twenty three. And I didn't know why, because

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Speaker 1: my father is the dean at this, you know, university.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, we're pretty well off, you know, I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: we are, but we're really not. We should be giving

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Speaker 1: my dad's position. Um. But it wasn't until I went

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Speaker 1: back home that I realized my father was taking care

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Speaker 1: of a lot of people, a lot of family members.

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Speaker 1: We have a huge family there, but here we did not.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know many family members. When my friends would

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Speaker 1: have family reunions and things, I couldn't relate to that

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Speaker 1: experience at all because I only knew my two aunts

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Speaker 1: on my father's side and my you know, my aunts

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Speaker 1: and uncles on my mom's side. But we had a

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Speaker 1: huge family, and my father was taking care of everyone,

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Speaker 1: not only on his side of the family, but also

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Speaker 1: my mother side of the family. They were really all

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Speaker 1: one family back in Ethiopia, and so my father worked

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Speaker 1: so much that he wasn't, you know, as tough on

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Speaker 1: me because he was just working all the time. But

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Speaker 1: also I was a really good kid, like I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to every disappoint my father or my parents at all.

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Speaker 1: And my mom she was probably stricter on me as

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Speaker 1: mothers would be. Right, Um, but she got sick when

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Speaker 1: I was in high school and with us, yeah, she

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Speaker 1: got sick when I was in high school, and um,

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Speaker 1: she wasn't at present, So you know, I really had

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Speaker 1: a lot of freedom. And so what are your siblings

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Speaker 1: doing today? My older brother is still in Atlanta. He

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Speaker 1: works at the Fox Theater there running production on that side.

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Speaker 1: And then my little brother, um, graduated from the University

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Speaker 1: of Georgia. He actually took this year off to help

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Speaker 1: my father. My father got diagnosed with Parkinson's in November,

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Speaker 1: so he's had to retire. My little brother is there

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Speaker 1: helping him, you know, deal with stepping down from being

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Speaker 1: at the university, et cetera. My little brother is like

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Speaker 1: an angel. He's brilliant, but also like this amazing, amazing

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Speaker 1: kid man. But okay, so your parents have a big

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Speaker 1: insistence on education because your father, Yes, so when I was.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I was younger, my father would like,

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Speaker 1: go to Boston. We'd go visit like M I T

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Speaker 1: and Harvard or whatever. My father wanted me to either

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Speaker 1: be a lawyer or be a scientist, et cetera. Um,

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Speaker 1: And I thought for a second mate about being a lawyer.

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Speaker 1: But once I got introduced to music, that was all

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Speaker 1: she wrote. That was it. Um. But I won't lie.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't It wasn't that easy. So when I, you know,

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Speaker 1: I go through high school, I graduate, and and and

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Speaker 1: so I in turned out LA Face and I just

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Speaker 1: get into the music community there. There's so much happening.

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Speaker 1: And then I found out about this internship program. I

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Speaker 1: got a paid internship when I was sixteen at Electoral Records,

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Speaker 1: the satellite office there in Atlanta. UM. I graduated at seventeen,

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Speaker 1: I get hired as an assistant at LA Face in

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Speaker 1: the production department, which wasn't really sexy, but I was

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Speaker 1: making a check and then I could still help out

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Speaker 1: in marketing and promotions or whatever. Um. So I did that,

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Speaker 1: but my father was like, no, you have to go

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Speaker 1: to college. I'm like, just give me a year that like,

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Speaker 1: let me just see how this goes. It might turn

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Speaker 1: into something, and he was pretty supportive of that. My

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Speaker 1: mom not so much. But she had gone to Ethiopia

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Speaker 1: to go visit the family that first year, so she

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Speaker 1: didn't really like get to um told me back then,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So my dad was coming

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Speaker 1: back and forth from Alabama, and I was just working,

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Speaker 1: and I really just worked my butt off. I did everything.

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Speaker 1: I would babysit to make extra money, and that led

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Speaker 1: to other opportunities. I ended up working opportunities. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: I babysitting for the woman named Lronda Sutton who started

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Speaker 1: l A Read's publishing company, hit Co Music Publishing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: she started it, and it was in the LaFace office.

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Speaker 1: She was fabulous. She would walk past my cubicle and

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Speaker 1: she would say things to me, like you're gonna work.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna work for me. One day. I like how

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Speaker 1: you answer phones. I was like, okay, that's good, you know.

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Speaker 1: And so she was a single mother there and needed help,

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Speaker 1: and so I was working as assistant. I would leave,

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Speaker 1: I would babysit for her until she was able to

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Speaker 1: come home, and then at night I'd be in the

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Speaker 1: clubs doing whatever. So when LaRonda left, hit coach. She

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Speaker 1: went to Edmunds Music Publishing in Los Angeles, and she

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Speaker 1: told me I'd make a great I'd be a great

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Speaker 1: music publisher. She knew my taste. I would play her records, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: And she was the one that offered me an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to work in publishing at Emmon's Music Publishing, and that's

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Speaker 1: how I got the job there. Okay, So you never

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Speaker 1: do go to college, never do go to college, and

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Speaker 1: any regrets there? Okay? No, However, I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: for you. I don't think that's the route for everyone.

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Speaker 1: And I do think education is important as long as

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Speaker 1: you know your interests and like the things that you

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Speaker 1: want to learn about. I think I'm in a at

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Speaker 1: a at a point in my life where there are

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Speaker 1: other things that I'm interested in that I would want

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Speaker 1: to like go back to school to learn about. But

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Speaker 1: no regrets. Okay. So you're in Atlanta, you're working in

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Speaker 1: La Face, You're starting as an assistant answering phones, what's

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Speaker 1: the next step up the ladder. At the same time

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Speaker 1: that I was doing that, I was helping out in marketing.

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Speaker 1: I was helping out in the promotions department, and I

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Speaker 1: was doing a lot, and I wanted a full time

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Speaker 1: job in marketing. I wanted to be in marketing. The

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Speaker 1: general manager there at the time, though, was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you need to go to college. We're not gonna hire

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Speaker 1: you full time. You need to go to college. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, my father isn't even

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Speaker 1: making me go to college. And I had the support

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Speaker 1: of all the executives there, etcetera. And I remember, do

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Speaker 1: you guys remember the Impact Music Convention? Yeah, so I remember, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wrote, I wrote the g M a proposal and

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Speaker 1: I said, I sent it to him and I said,

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Speaker 1: this is why I L Facial sponsored me going to

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Speaker 1: the Impact Music Convention UM and so they paid for

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Speaker 1: my travel and my registration to go to the convention.

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Speaker 1: And he was like, when you come back, you have

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Speaker 1: to make a decision if you're going to go to school,

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Speaker 1: you know, or if you're just going to continue on

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Speaker 1: here working part time, but I'm not hiring you full time.

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Speaker 1: And I came back and I was like, I quit.

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Speaker 1: I didn't have a job in place, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was gonna do, but I

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Speaker 1: just felt like they didn't really value me. And I

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Speaker 1: wasn't gonna be forced, you know, into being a scenario.

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Speaker 1: I had to stay a part time. I was doing

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Speaker 1: a lot for the company at the time. Um oh,

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Speaker 1: I remember when I was I met a guy named

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Speaker 1: Doug Brown. Doug Brown was partners with Johnny Wright. They

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Speaker 1: were managing Left Eye as a as a solo artist

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Speaker 1: at the time, and I was like the only person

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Speaker 1: that was like nice to him because LA didn't know

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Speaker 1: who Johnny Wright was and who Dug Brown was, and

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Speaker 1: they were like, who the hell are these people managing

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Speaker 1: Left Eye. I was a nice person to him, So

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Speaker 1: I got introduced to in Sync through that relationship. I

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Speaker 1: quit and started working with in syncing their charity organization,

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Speaker 1: like helping them put their charity like organization together celebrity

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Speaker 1: basketball games parties. My goal was to like infuse the

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Speaker 1: cool urban scene in Atlanta to what InSync was doing.

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Speaker 1: But this was like right at the beginning. So I

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Speaker 1: would get like Germaine dupri and people like that to

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Speaker 1: come playing their games and stuff, and I just made

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Speaker 1: extra money doing that until I could figure out what

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Speaker 1: I was gonna do next. And what did you figure

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Speaker 1: out you wanted to do. That's when Lo Rhonda offered

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Speaker 1: me the job of music publishing. And how long after

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Speaker 1: you quit was that that was probably a year and

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Speaker 1: a half. Okay, that was in Atlanta. That was in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: and at the time, my father was very supportive. I

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Speaker 1: remember the sky Tell two A pagers. I told my dad,

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Speaker 1: I said, Daddy, if I'm gonna make it, you have

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Speaker 1: to buy me a sky Tell tway pager. You have

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Speaker 1: to have one in order to be in the music business.

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Speaker 1: So he bought me a sky Tell two A pager.

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Speaker 1: He bought me a Fox a fax machine that I

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Speaker 1: had in my bedroom and I had like I always had,

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Speaker 1: like the latest computer because my father had him from

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Speaker 1: work and I would I would just work from my

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Speaker 1: from my bedroom. Your father actually was very supportive, was yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so you work in publishing. What do you learn immediately?

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Speaker 1: Work publishing? Right, because I didn't know. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what publishing was when I took the job. So I

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Speaker 1: was a song plugger. Basically, etmus Music Publishing was baby

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Speaker 1: Face and Tracy Etmun's publishing company. It was administered through

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Speaker 1: m I and UM. They had about ten writers signed

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Speaker 1: to them at the time, and when I got there,

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Speaker 1: the job was to really build morale amongst the writers

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Speaker 1: into help shop their songs. But it was a tough

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Speaker 1: situation because I think a lot of the writers were

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Speaker 1: under the impression that they would be writing with baby

401
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Speaker 1: Face and that was not the case. He didn't he

402
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Speaker 1: didn't deal with them at all. So it was a

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Speaker 1: little tough and I tried my best. I did. I

404
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: were put together writing camps. This is like really like,

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Speaker 1: you know, two thousand, two thousand and one, putting together

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Speaker 1: a lot of writing camps, etcetera with them. Um and

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Speaker 1: I would go to New York and shop records, you know,

408
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Speaker 1: And I knew I wanted to be in New York

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Speaker 1: because that's where it was all happening and in the

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Speaker 1: industry at the time. Um I will say this happened

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Speaker 1: so I I because my relationship with in Sinc. They

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Speaker 1: were working on their last album at the time, and

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Speaker 1: um I was able to get a track placed on

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Speaker 1: their last album with some producers that were actually signed

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Speaker 1: to Universal Publishing, and one of them had worked with

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Speaker 1: one of my writers at Edmonds And it was a

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Speaker 1: huge deal because these producers hadn't really been that active

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Speaker 1: on the Universal side, and um I got this placement

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Speaker 1: for Instinct. It was a really big deal. And I

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Speaker 1: remember Tom Sturgions, who was at Universal Publishing at the time,

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Speaker 1: wanted to know how that happened because he couldn't believe

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00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: these producers got to cut on this sinc. And I

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Speaker 1: got the call from Universal because he wanted to meet

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Speaker 1: with me and they offered me a job. That's yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's when. That's when I first got a job. I

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Speaker 1: had only been at Edmunds though for maybe eight months,

427
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm still learning what publishing is.

428
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: I can't leave. I don't I'm not ready for this,

429
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: but thank you, you know. And I was loyal to

430
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 1: the opportunity that I had an MS. I stayed there

431
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 1: for two years. Then an opportunity came about in New

432
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: York at Universal Publishing. I got hired there as a

433
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: creative manager like a year and a half later. Being

434
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 1: a single woman now moving to New York. It was

435
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I was making no money. I think I

436
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: was probably making forty five dollars a year. Um, it

437
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: was hard. It was extremely hard. I remember time was

438
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: walking out of that building at like it's raining, the

439
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 1: wind is blowing, and like literally just crying because it

440
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: was tough and I was broke. I had to take

441
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 1: the ferry across Jersey. You know. It was tough. It

442
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 1: was really really tough, but I made it work. And um,

443
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 1: the first first person I sawned was Joe Button. He

444
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: had this track called Pump It Up that was exploding

445
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: at the time. I also found that, like, there weren't

446
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 1: a lot of fans of the publishing company at the

447
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: time when I got there, Like Kedar Massenburg was there.

448
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: He was a bit of an asshole. Uh. He remember

449
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: him saying, seeing these are people I would read about two.

450
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: So I was like excited when I was seeing him

451
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: in the hallway and Kadar was like, oh, yeah, you

452
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: work for the publishing company. Yeah, fuck them, And I'm

453
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: like what you know what I mean? Like that, that

454
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: was my introduction to some of the people because they

455
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: just didn't support what we were doing at the publishing company.

456
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: So it was um. I learned a lot during those

457
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: first couple of years, and uh I went back to

458
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 1: Atlanta a lot too, though, because the music scene was

459
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: always happening there because of my relationships that I had

460
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: when I was coming up and I was young when

461
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 1: I got the job in Publishing Ludicrous. Ludicrous had been

462
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: a DJ on the radio and on air, part personality

463
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: when I got the job. He's huge now. He left

464
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: E M I Publishing and came and signed with me

465
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: at Universal, which was a big deal at the time.

466
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: And from that David supported me and signing new things

467
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: that I wanted to develop to develop. So that was

468
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: his producer Polodon, who went on to have like huge

469
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: hits with Pussycat Dolls, Um Fergie, et cetera. I signed

470
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: a writer named Carry Hilton who records was like Timberland,

471
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: like the way I are. She wrote records for Ussher, Sierra, etcetera.

472
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: But these were I signed them before they all had

473
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: these hits. How did you find them? They were in Atlanta.

474
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: I knew Polo from my younger years in Atlanta being

475
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: on the scene. He was an artist, an aspiring hip

476
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: hop artist and had started producing music and when I

477
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: when I heard his beat, so I was like, okay,

478
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: these are great. So when I signed Ludicrous, I immediately

479
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: signed him after that because I had the trust of David.

480
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 1: He was like, you brought in this huge deal. You know,

481
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: I had the the leeway to sign new and developing

482
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: things too. And it ended up actually Polo had a

483
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 1: hit on on Ludicrous, and then Carrie started having hits, etcetera.

484
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: And I just started building my roster from there. And

485
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: how did you end up in l A the mostown gig?

486
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: So you in New York told the mostown gig? Yes, okay,

487
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: so you're working in publishing. You foresee the that your

488
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: career is going to be in publishing. I did. Actually

489
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: I dibbled and dabbled in an R. So I signed

490
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: an artist named Sierra to a publishing deal. Um. She

491
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: had a lot of success with her first record, and

492
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: she was making she was supposed to make her second album,

493
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: and she didn't have a great relationship with the label,

494
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: UM because her A R guy that was there wasn't

495
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: there anymore. And so because I'm her publisher, she wants

496
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: me to A and R the record. I've never done

497
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: an R before. I was like, all right, we're gonna

498
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: give this a go. And that's how I learned a R.

499
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,479
Speaker 1: Like working with her and doing the second album, I

500
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: knew Barry Weiss through that dynamic, and we had a

501
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: lot of success with the second album, and um yeah,

502
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: because I remember we came out the same day once

503
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: Definding was putting out her solo record, and we beat

504
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: her like we came in number one. We had a

505
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 1: lot of you know, And that's how I got my

506
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: introduction into A and R. Were you making now? I've

507
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: been promoted because I had some success. I think I

508
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: was probably a senior actor or something like that at

509
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: the time. Um, So I did A and R and

510
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 1: I liked it. It It was a lot had a lot

511
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: of respect for an R. Like as a publisher you

512
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: really feel like you're at the ground level because you're

513
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: working with creators and songwriters and you really know what's next.

514
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: Before I thought always before labels, did you know? Um?

515
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: And in some cases you do because you have a

516
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 1: lot more time to develop and nurture things, whereas at

517
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: a label it can be really difficult. You just have

518
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: to know how to manage your roster and manage your

519
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: time in order to do both right. Um. But as

520
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: a publisher you definitely have more time to nurture and

521
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: develop talent overall. And um, when I got into A

522
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 1: and R, I love the process of helping to make

523
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: a body of work and helping an artist see their

524
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: full vision come to life. So how many years were

525
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: in New York at Universal Publishing. I've just I just

526
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 1: segued from being in a dual role between Universal Publishing

527
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: and the label because I was made an e v

528
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: P of Urban Co head of the creative department probably

529
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: five years ago, six years ago, I can't keep track

530
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: of the time. That probably about six years ago, and

531
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: I segued out of the publishing company like a year ago.

532
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: So what is the dream for you personally? Ship? Um?

533
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: The dream for me personally, you know, to find balance,

534
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: right to like joy. I love what I do in music,

535
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: and you know, growing as a music executive as you

536
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: move up the corporate ladder, you see yourself kind of

537
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: getting sometimes away from the process, the creative process that

538
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: you loved and enjoyed it. For me, it's about having

539
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: a better balance between both because that creative process is

540
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: actually what fuels me, you know what I mean. Like

541
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: I love making the records, connecting with the talent, etcetera.

542
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: And so just having more of a balance of that.

543
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: This is all a part of my life. Um so yeah, okay,

544
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: but is there time for romance? Yeah? There is, Okay,

545
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: make time for that. Yeah, I mean I was I

546
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: was engaged, so I was engaged five years ago and

547
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: I called it off. He wasn't the right one, And

548
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: was that he in the music business. Yes, okay, let's

549
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: leave it there. Let's leave it there. So at least

550
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: he understood your lifestyle. Yeah, okay. So is now as

551
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: we keep creeping in your biological imperative? Is new? Clock

552
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: is ticking louder? Does that bother you? If you didn't

553
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: have children? Would that be? Okay? What type of citizen? No?

554
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: The point is you're a very powerful, strong executive, your

555
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: role model for people. The question can you do it all? Yeah?

556
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: I do think you can do it all for me.

557
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: It's I've never looked at it like I couldn't. You know.

558
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. I never looked at it

559
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,239
Speaker 1: like I couldn't. I'm I was a helpless romantic. I'm like,

560
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: I never believed that I couldn't have it all. You know,

561
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: I don't really subscribe to those thoughts or ideas. Yes,

562
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: I can't have it all. I just has to be

563
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: with the right person. Okay, so said By the way,

564
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: he's stud I'm like, right, he's stunding my dad. We'll

565
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: take a quick break and come back with more of

566
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: my conversation with Ethiopia, have to Marry Him? Recording it

567
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: the music media stummit in Santa Barbara, California. This week

568
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: I'm speaking with the president of Motown Records. Two weeks ago,

569
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: I had Moby from the l A Times Festival Books,

570
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: and last week we heard Brazilian legend Gilberto Joe, who

571
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: welcomed me into a video in the hills of Rio

572
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: de Janeiro. Be the first to hear next week's episode

573
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: by subscribing to the podcast on tune in, Apple Podcast

574
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: or your podcast player of choice. Check out the first

575
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: twenty interviews, and please rate and review the podcast. Okay,

576
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: let's get back to my conversation with Ethiopia, have to

577
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: Marry Him in front of a live audience at my

578
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: music media summit in Santa Barbara, California. Being a powerful

579
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: black woman in society and uh, there's a lot of

580
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: attention paid attention to you know, pointed at you. And

581
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: do you feel responsibility to be a role model? I

582
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: I have to live my life for me, yes, I do.

583
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: But but I feel a responsibility to myself first. Um,

584
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: and I can't really get too caught up in that,

585
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: but I of course I'm aware that people look up

586
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: to me, because I know that there were people that

587
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: I looked up to. But you quickly learn that you can't,

588
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: you know, idolize people, or you can't think that people

589
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: won't make mistakes. And so I just want to be

590
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: comfortable with the decisions that I make from my life.

591
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: And I've gotten to a place where I'm like, i

592
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: gotta do what's right for me. And do you feel

593
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: any responsibility with your position and power to impact other

594
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: parts of the culture. Definitely, and what does that look like? Um?

595
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: For me, it's about how I relate to the artists

596
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: and talent that I deal with their times when they

597
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: can be going through through certain things in their life

598
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: where I think the artists have the biggest platforms to

599
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: really affect change um. And so I know the conversations

600
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: that I have in the background, or if I'm helping

601
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: them through situations in their own life to get them

602
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: to a place that they that they can create art

603
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: that I know will affect people. UM. So you find

604
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: you're actually leading the act as opposed to the act

605
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: leading you. It depends on the scenario or or the

606
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: In certain situations, it may have been the writer like

607
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: there have been times I've been in sessions where artists

608
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: maybe I know that they're emotionally in a certain place

609
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: in their lives and and they don't have a good translator.

610
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: So it's my job to identify the right people to

611
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: have in the room to help bring that out of

612
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: them and then to translate what what I know will

613
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: come out and connect to other people. And that's that's

614
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: a gift, you know what I mean, And it's worked

615
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. And then also you know,

616
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 1: I have I have this writer named Sebastian cole right,

617
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: thirty five year old black man from Birmingham, Alabama. I

618
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: figned him when he was like, you know, living out

619
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: of his car and Los Angeles, drove to l A

620
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: to pursue his dreams, etcetera. He went on to write

621
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: like the Alestia Carra hits like you know here, Scarcy,

622
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: you're beautiful, etcetera, etcetera. To me, that feels like my

623
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: contribution to the culture as well, because I know that

624
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: someone like him would not have normally gotten an opportunity

625
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: to get the kind of deal that he got in

626
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: that belief early on, I mean, I signed him way

627
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: before there was the smashes, etceteran. So I feel very

628
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: privileged because I'm able to provide those opportunities for people

629
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: that I know have the gift and then helping them

630
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 1: get to a place where they can create music that

631
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: will touch people. Um So, whether it was a Sebastian

632
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: or it was you know, these writers from Atlanta and

633
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: the rock city who went on to be huge pop songwriters.

634
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: You know, that's a gift for me because I know

635
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: that normally they wouldn't get those shots. And to what

636
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: degree do you feel racism in the music industry? Okay,

637
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: so I'll be honest about it, because I have to

638
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: be Racism wasn't something that I had thought about in

639
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: the industry for a long time. When you put your

640
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: head down and just do the work and you're working

641
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,959
Speaker 1: so much, it wasn't something that I had thought about.

642
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: So it wasn't until I got the Motown gig that

643
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: it came up for me. Now, when I was pursuing

644
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: my career in music, I read every trade magazine and

645
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: and you know, there were the people I looked up to.

646
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: It was an artist, it was other executives that I

647
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: you know, so there were a lot of women of

648
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: color that were in senior roles on the A and

649
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: R side, across all the labels, right in the publishing companies, etcetera.

650
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: And Um, I never looked at it like there being

651
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: an issue before. When I got the job at Motown,

652
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: I was originally hired as an s VP of n

653
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: R Motown was UH moved under Island def jam Um,

654
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: and I remember the switch. I remember the conversations changing

655
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 1: where people were pointing out to me the lack of

656
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: black executives in the music business, and have you noticed

657
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 1: the change, etcetera. And I started noticing that there was

658
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: a change. You know, there was a lot of conversation

659
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 1: around the role at death sham Um and I hadn't

660
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: really thought about it in that way before because I

661
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: was I wasn't a person who thought about like because

662
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: I was a woman, or because I was black, I

663
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't ever make it. And this is from me as

664
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: a kid. I never thought about those things. And it

665
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,959
Speaker 1: may have been because I was in Atlanta where I

666
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: was surrounded around a lot of success, a lot of

667
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: huge success, but around people that looked like me, so

668
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,479
Speaker 1: I never thought it would be an issue. I moved

669
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: to New York still didn't think it was an issue,

670
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 1: and then I noticed that there was a change. Also,

671
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: Urban music got to a place where we were making

672
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: as much money, right, So I choose to take the

673
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 1: Motown to do be in this dual role. I became

674
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: a very successful music publisher and then having success doing

675
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 1: A and R as well. I also managed Carry Hilton.

676
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 1: She went from being a songwriter to an artist. I

677
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: helped her get her deal and then managed her and

678
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: addition to being a publisher, right, so I got to

679
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,479
Speaker 1: grow and see a lot as a creative executive and

680
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: I became very powerful in the business. But then I

681
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: took this role at Motown and things were changing. You

682
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: could have a number one urban record and it didn't

683
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: equit to anything, right, So the power base changed and

684
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 1: it became a real issue for the lack of black

685
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: executives in the business. You just saw like a complete

686
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: shift happening, and it wasn't really spoken about. You just

687
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: felt it, and there were a group of a group

688
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: of people that would talk about it a lot um.

689
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: And I had to educate myself. I had mentors and

690
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,479
Speaker 1: I still have a mentor in my life, Clearance Avon,

691
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 1: that just educated me on the history of the business

692
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: and things that had happened before UM and looking at

693
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: what was happening, you know, at the time, and what

694
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 1: is what's happening currently. But I do feel a real

695
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: responsibility for making sure I create opportunities for people that

696
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: look like me. I remember, you know, at one point,

697
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: UM renegotiating with my deal at Universal Publishing and Jay

698
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: Brown Right Nations. So when I respect UM and admire,

699
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: I'm having hits after hits after hits, and it's so

700
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: it's Polo having hits. Ester Dean, my songwright, you know,

701
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: Esterdin is one of my songwriters. She's having a lot

702
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: of hits. And he said to me, he said, he

703
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: has them take urban out of your title. Because I

704
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: was like the head. He's like, have them take urban

705
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 1: out of your title. You know, all your writers are

706
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: writing all the pop hits. And I was like, shit, okay,

707
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: I didn't really think about that. And then I remember

708
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: speaking to another friend of mine and he was like, well,

709
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: if you do that, will there'll be a responsibility at

710
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: these companies for them to hire people that look like you.

711
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, yeah, you're right. So

712
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: I kept it in my title. It's not something that

713
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 1: I run away from. UM, I'm I'm proud of the

714
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 1: culture that I come from. You know, I'm clearly ether

715
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: up in American but I grew up in the South

716
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: and you know, all black neighborhood, etcetera. But my experiences

717
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: and and things that I went through as a kid

718
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: are very similar to what a lot of other people

719
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: went through. Doesn't but but my culture and what I

720
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: lived and breathe is I'm I'm fining to represent that,

721
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: and I'm fining to give opportunities for talent that also

722
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: come from that same culture as well. And I think

723
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: it's important that had to have people inside of the

724
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: companies that can relate to it on that level, not

725
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: just look at it through a computer screen or through

726
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: their phones and say, oh, I'm urban because I'm watching

727
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: your culture, you know what I mean, but not really

728
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: having understood it or lived it or breathed it. And

729
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: I think that there's a responsibility to these companies to

730
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: know the difference UM and have people in there that

731
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: actually like are from it. And what about being a

732
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: woman in the music industry and a woman in society,

733
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: especially in the light of the me too uh movement

734
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: in the last eight months or so. UM, I mean,

735
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of similar in that let's start

736
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: from have you personally, not that we need details, had

737
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: bad experiences. I have had bad experiences, not a lot

738
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 1: of them. I've had situations more with you know, sometimes

739
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: with like aggressive talent or aggressive there's been this weird

740
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: thing that might happen with talent where there they feel

741
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: like you're there's you know what I mean, like because

742
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: you're a woman, or you might be nurturing, etcetera. They

743
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: get they get those lines blurred or whatever, and then

744
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: you have to check them. But I've always been a

745
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: person that's been about checking them. Even when, like there

746
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: was a time I was doing street promotions and I

747
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: would come across situations dealing with promoters or etcetera. I

748
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 1: had no problem checking them. Let's just to be clear,

749
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: because I'm a male and we're on the other side

750
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: of the fence, give me an illustration of what checking

751
00:40:52,719 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: somebody would be like. UM, I'm gonna tell I'm gonna

752
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: tell you a story. I'm gonna tell you a story

753
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: about when I was at LA Face and in addition

754
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: of being a production assistant, I was also doing promotions

755
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: and produce, street promotions, etcetera. And I remember going to

756
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: North Carolina or South Carolina or something with some of

757
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: my girlfriends that were helping me for this party that

758
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: we were doing, and we had to deal with the

759
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: promoter and he had his friends so they we have

760
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: a successful event. They decided to show up to our

761
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: hotel room and a few of my friends had been drinking.

762
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: We had ordered room service. So I'm the person that

763
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: knew to just like grab one of the knobs and

764
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 1: put it under the pillow just in case anything gets crazy, right,

765
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 1: Just That's just how I was. But and I think

766
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: the guys thought it was gonna be a another kind

767
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: of situation. I'm like the one that like, get up,

768
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: get the funk out of here, you know what I mean, Like,

769
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: how dare you even try? This? Was like a you know,

770
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: it was one of those situations where I work for

771
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: the Face Records. I'm here too, you know, as someone

772
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: that's working on this event. How dare you try us?

773
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: And they really felt like, because my friends were there

774
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: and they were you know, being social, that it could

775
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 1: be something more. And the I think the moment you

776
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: allow the lines to get a little blurred, people feel

777
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: like they can really test you and take it there,

778
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: and you just can't be afraid to speak up and say,

779
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: I'm not going to allow that to happen. And I've

780
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: had other extreme situations as I've gotten older, where you've

781
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: had to just deal with it in the immediate and no,

782
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: not to let things even get to the point where

783
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: they could get blurred. Has the opposite been true ever,

784
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: where you say, well, the lines may be blurred, but

785
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: this will work to my advantage career wise. So I

786
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: don't want to cross the line, but I'm willing to

787
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 1: ride with it. No, like just letting people get away

788
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: with things because it's gonna work for my career. It's

789
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: interesting culturally, I think this is you know, it's it's

790
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: very illustrative. I think, I mean, I don't know the

791
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: way you're saying white women seem to you know, it

792
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: seems like the strong black woman. The image is like

793
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: they're shutting it down, and uh, I mean, well, and

794
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: I'll tell you it's for me. It was really about respect.

795
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: It was really about respect because I respect myself within

796
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: my career and I want you want, I want you

797
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: to respect me as an executive first, like I never

798
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: wanted it. I would never want them to think it

799
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: could be anything else. You know. Um, I will tell

800
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: you there was a time with a producer that I

801
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 1: worked with where I think he felt because we worked

802
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: very closely with him, he felt like the relationship was

803
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: more than what it was. And I was like, are

804
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 1: you fucking delusional? You know what I mean? And it's

805
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: really because it can become an intimate dynamic when you're

806
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: you know, if they get to call you at three

807
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: in the morning and you're making yourself available to talk

808
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: through a concept or idea, but you don't have any

809
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: romantic feelings for them, It's not anything like that. It's

810
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 1: a part of the r of being an n R

811
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: or making records, etceter Or you go through that, you

812
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But this fool lost his mind,

813
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: like in the moment you're in a relationship. It's like

814
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: he couldn't handle it. He couldn't handle me being in

815
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: a relationship. He felt like I whatever. And I was like,

816
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: are you out of your mind? Um? And he was.

817
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: And then that went I mean, are you one of

818
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: a kind or your friends as strong as you are? Listen,

819
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna try and come off as like I'm

820
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: a super strong person all the time. That's not my truth.

821
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: That's not my truth. Um, I do think I'm one

822
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: of a kind. Okay, And uh, you know, if if

823
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: you look at what happened in Ferguson and now that

824
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: everyone has a phone in their camera, we see all

825
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: these racial elements and then we have Kanye saying George

826
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: Bush doesn't like black people, and now he's cozying up

827
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: to Trump. Okay, I guess these are two questions. You

828
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: might mix the answers together. But is there an inherent injustice?

829
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: Because African American culture is ruling the culture, so it's

830
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: kind of ironic that it's not getting the respect economically

831
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: and culturally in terms of equality. Right, So what's the question?

832
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: Question is, first, do you personally feel that injustice of

833
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 1: being a black person in America? And are you taking

834
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: any steps or contamable in any steps to rectify that? Yes?

835
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: And what might they look like? Yes? Yes, I do

836
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 1: feel the injustices that exist. Um, what steps in my taking?

837
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean if you look at it as a white person,

838
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: we're listening to iced tea and we'll you know, fuck

839
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: the police, etcetera, n w A and all of a sudden,

840
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: the Rodney King think happens. Holy shit, everything in the

841
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: records was true. Okay, so there's a catch shop. And

842
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: I still believe there's an education that the white people

843
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: need that. So I have friends that are white, that

844
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 1: are Asian, etcetera. And I find myself, you know, I

845
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: have one of my closest friends as a white woman

846
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: who only dates black or Latino man. Right, and as

847
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 1: this conversation and the incidents that have happened over the past,

848
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 1: I say, it's been five years, etcetera. UM, having to

849
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: educate her about what that would mean. I'm like, if

850
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: you have a kid, you're gonna have a black son,

851
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: So let's talk about what that experience will be like

852
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: and what how you'll have to handle that as a mother. UM.

853
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: And I feel like it's my responsibility to really educate

854
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: the people that I'm around and not and and to

855
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: not do it, to not make them feel like they

856
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: can't talk to me about it, you know what I mean?

857
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: If I can be the person to try and be

858
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: a bridge and educate the people that I know do

859
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: have good hearts but don't really understand, because I think

860
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: that we're all out of place racism is real, but

861
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: I'm I also know I'm I'm an empathy and I

862
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: learned that about myself pretty early on. I know about

863
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 1: humanity and I connect to human beings. That's who I am.

864
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: That's how I connect to music. That's how I know

865
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: we're really all the same. Um. If I have the

866
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: opportunity to get you to understand who I am, who

867
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,959
Speaker 1: my people are, and I can connect with you because

868
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: I really do have compassion for other people, no matter

869
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 1: what your races, no matter what you're going I'm like

870
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: one of those people that cry at a commercial if

871
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: I feel like if I see someone i'm I really

872
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: do feel it. UM. I want to be that bridge

873
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: to educate them, and to be honest with you, I'm

874
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: trying to find other ways to make a difference, you know,

875
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: because it's not just the typical tweet something or post

876
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: something and say it's this. How do you really um?

877
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: I think you know, it's about kids feeling like they

878
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: can communicate amongst each other and educate them without them

879
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: feeling isolated. I'm trying to find the right way to

880
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: go about it, honestly, But I do think and how

881
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: I carry myself on an everyday basis, how how I

882
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: dial with my coworkers, how I operate could be an example. Okay,

883
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: you talked about having mentors. Are you now a mentor

884
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: yourself to certain individuals? Yeah? I am. Um. You know,

885
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: there was a point at the publishing company where my

886
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: whole urban department it was all women, but a diverse

887
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 1: group of women of you know, white women, there was

888
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 1: an Asian woman whatever. And it wasn't by design. It

889
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 1: wasn't because I was like, I'm gonna have a department

890
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 1: of all women. These are just really dope people. And

891
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: I looked up one day and they were. It was

892
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: all women. I had other people at other publishing companies

893
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: coming to me and saying like, how did you you know?

894
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 1: Like you have a whole squad. I was like. The

895
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: one person said to me, like, you guys are the

896
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,439
Speaker 1: pink ladies. You should have jackets. I was like, Okay,

897
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 1: you're a fucking asshole, but you're actually right. It would

898
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: actually look dope if we showed up like that, right.

899
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: But because I didn't even notice that they were all

900
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: women and they were really doping this you know several

901
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: years ago. Um, and and all of those those women

902
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 1: I mentor and other young women reach out to me

903
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: all the time. One of the things I pride myself

904
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: and is helping to develop other executives. So when I

905
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: was coming up, one of the things I noticed, I

906
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 1: don't think a lot of people talk about this, is

907
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: that you come across people that don't want to help

908
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: other people, or people that feel um intimidated because they

909
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: may be getting older, etcetera. That this young person coming

910
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: up is gonna take my job. They operate from an

911
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: insecure place. And I was like, I'm never going to

912
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 1: be that person ever, ever, ever, because I experienced it myself,

913
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: and so I made it a point to you know,

914
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: I've I've kind of been known as a person that

915
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: will grow people from assistance etcetera into being you know,

916
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: vice president's etcetera. And so I'm proud that I've been

917
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: able to do that and help other people get opportunities

918
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: at other companies. I'm proud of that. For those of

919
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: us who live through the sixties, music played a big

920
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: part in terms of the at the I'm called the revolution.

921
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 1: We can debate the effect of the revolution, but certainly

922
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: the Vietnam War was stopped in music helped, so there

923
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: was the invasion of Iraq in the beginning of the century,

924
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: and everyone said, where's the protest music? And there wasn't

925
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: any protest music. Now, in light of all if Trump

926
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: and all this craziness, people are saying, where is the

927
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: protest music? But in reality that's a white perspective. The

928
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: white people, the white acts are really not making protest music.

929
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: But run the Jewels are a million African American acts.

930
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: What is it going to take for one of those

931
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: songs to become any anthem? I think it has to

932
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: be a great song. Do you think we haven't found

933
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: these songs yet? I don't. I don't know if we have.

934
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if we've come across. I don't know

935
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 1: if we have the music yet that's can connect to

936
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 1: all people. Also, you know, the people of influence that

937
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: can really create the music that can you know, connect

938
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: all of us. I don't think that they've gone there yet.

939
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: I think that we need music that really relates to

940
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: what we're all experiencing and we haven't seen or experience

941
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: like the talent that's created that that can be the

942
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: right vessel for it. And when you have people like

943
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: a Kanye doing the Crazy Ship that he's doing. Um,

944
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,280
Speaker 1: I think it. Um, He's confused a lot of people.

945
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 1: He's confused a lot of artists about where to stand.

946
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: And you know, I agree with you. We are missing

947
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: out on the protest music. We're all we're missing out

948
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: on the music that really speaks to what's happening in

949
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 1: this country. And I don't know why it's not. I

950
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: don't know why it's not being created, you know what

951
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: I mean. I don't know why people aren't being honest

952
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: in their music and not really expressing themselves in that

953
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: way and really making an effort to do it. I

954
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: think that there's some people that are, but not not

955
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,720
Speaker 1: the big superstars that we need to If we focus

956
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: on Kanye forgetting what he's done, you know who knows

957
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: when this wire is a podcast? But where is what

958
00:51:55,239 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: is Kanye's place in African American culture? He's considered to

959
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 1: be one of the greats, one of the most influential

960
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: artists of our time, and you agree with that. So

961
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: when he comes out and he says things that are

962
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: pro Trump and he does some crazy stuff, do you

963
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: think it's an incredible art experienced mind fucking the culture

964
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: to get people to think or do you believe that

965
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 1: he's just lost his mind. He has the right to

966
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: be approach Trump. I also think that he has the

967
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: responsibility to be well informed. And I also think that

968
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 1: the ego is a powerful, powerful thing, and I think

969
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: that he's aware of his power. I think that sometimes

970
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: he's operating from his ego and he's playing with us.

971
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: He's playing with the people that really connected him and

972
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 1: that are his fans. And I think that, um, it

973
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: almost feels like the person that has like the up

974
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: it's that's kind of like playing with everyone, but he

975
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 1: doesn't really understand how much it could affect everybody. I mean,

976
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: I know people that were really like distraught over the

977
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: things that he said. And I don't think he's well informed.

978
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 1: So to say you're operating out of love, but to

979
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: not at least when you talk about being pro Trump,

980
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 1: but not to also say that he's not operated out

981
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 1: of love when he's you know, insinuated or or created

982
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: people to operate from a place of hate. Yet a

983
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 1: lot of times it is really kind of crazy, not

984
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: when you're kind it was let's talk about the music.

985
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: One thing we know students of the game, all of

986
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,439
Speaker 1: the breakthroughs in new marketing, new exposure have come from

987
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: the urban side. Okay, so we've had SoundCloud, we've had

988
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 1: mixed tapes. Is this something that came up from the

989
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: ground or is this something you helped make happen and

990
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: what you have observed has happened. No, it's it came

991
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: from the round. I mean, mix tapes have always existed.

992
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: People operated from that place, and and um, when streaming

993
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: came about, it really just created an opportunity for us

994
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,919
Speaker 1: to see what was already happening on the ground level.

995
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 1: When SoundCloud and streaming came about, you got to see

996
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: what was happening on the ground level already with my

997
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: mix tapes, that Pith, etcetera. Urban music never went away.

998
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: What happened was how do you really monetize the music?

999
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: Because kids were always listening to hip hop and urban music,

1000
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: we just couldn't figure figure out how to make the

1001
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: money from it. So so we had my mix tapes,

1002
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 1: We had that pif etcetera. Soundfoul came about. Then it

1003
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: was like, oh, you know, these these artists are popping off.

1004
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 1: It's a great form of research. Then then we worked

1005
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 1: out our deals with Spotify, Apple Music, etcetera. And we

1006
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 1: got to see how dominant the genre was or the

1007
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: culture was, and um, it changed everything. I mean I

1008
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 1: lived it from being in a role at you know,

1009
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: at Motown where urban music well, I mean it was tough.

1010
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,439
Speaker 1: It's shipped for me. I went through a very hard

1011
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: time there to then see the complete shift happen. And

1012
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 1: it's a complete focus on urban music and culture. Now.

1013
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:05,439
Speaker 1: It's because they get to see the full value, because

1014
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: they see the money coming in now. Well, I mean

1015
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: it's just interesting because while the heritage tracks and the

1016
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: white acts kept complaining they weren't making any money from

1017
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: recorded music, the urban acts went in and fill the

1018
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: void and now own. And they also they knew how

1019
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: to roll up the sleeves and do the work right.

1020
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:25,879
Speaker 1: Like they had to operate on a ground level. They

1021
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: had to do the mom and pop circuit. They had

1022
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: to get out there and get on the road, sell music,

1023
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: you know from their trunks or whatever, or you know,

1024
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: make their hoodies and T shirts on their own and

1025
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: sell them while they were doing the shows. They did

1026
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: the groundwork. And to be honest with you, it really

1027
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 1: is a hip hop lifestyle. Um. You know, I've had

1028
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 1: this conversation with R. And b artists where I feel

1029
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: like they don't have the same work ethic as some

1030
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 1: of these hip hop artists. Well, they'll go and do

1031
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,399
Speaker 1: everything whatever it takes. They call it the hustle, right,

1032
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: they do it all and they just don't stop. And

1033
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: I think that you have to have that ability, um,

1034
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 1: and and you gotta have that work ethic in order

1035
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,439
Speaker 1: to make it. Doesn't mean that you have to put

1036
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 1: out music the same way that they do. You just

1037
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 1: have to be able to work that hard and do

1038
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: whatever it takes. And that's where you get to see

1039
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: innovation and strategy in different ways to go about putting

1040
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 1: out records. People talk to me a lot about you know,

1041
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 1: so I did this deal with Quality Control, right, um,

1042
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: And we've put out a lot of records with them,

1043
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: And one of the things that we did in our

1044
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: deal with them is we included a distribution element to

1045
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,720
Speaker 1: the deal through Caroline Distribution. And that was on purpose

1046
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 1: so that they could go bake things that they're used

1047
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:42,240
Speaker 1: to baking without having the red tape that a major

1048
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: label kind of has. There certain rules and regulations that

1049
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: we have so we can make money off of the

1050
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: things we put put out. But if you have things

1051
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 1: just on a distribution level, you don't have those same

1052
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: um rules and regulations that get in the way of

1053
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: you putting things out a certain way. But I put

1054
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: that in the deal because we have Caroline distributions so

1055
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: that they still freedom to do what they did to

1056
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: do what they do when for things they're to be

1057
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:08,760
Speaker 1: very specific, if they're on Modetown as opposed to Caroline,

1058
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 1: what would they be unable to do? Um, put out

1059
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: certain videos on World Star hip Hop, or put out

1060
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,919
Speaker 1: videos on World Star hip Hop, or put out mix

1061
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: tapes on that Piff or my mixtapes. And that's really

1062
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: just because of us not having worked out the deals

1063
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: with them yet to get paid properly. But if it's

1064
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: a distribution deal, um, we don't have to worry about

1065
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: that as much as they deal with that. Let's say

1066
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: you're a star or superstar. You know, the obvious one

1067
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: being Drake. He is now reinvented what a release is.

1068
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 1: He had the mixtape March eight, fourteen months ago. If

1069
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: you're a superstar, do you need an album? I mean,

1070
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: Kanye has been dropping these singles, who knows whether they're

1071
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: joker real, But is a at the label what are

1072
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 1: you telling the superstars to do. I would want to

1073
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: hear an album from Drake because we're used to hearing

1074
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: albums from him. But he could put out several singles

1075
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: before releasing the full but the full body of work,

1076
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It just depends on who

1077
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: the artist is. It's a different strategy for each act.

1078
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: It really is. Let's go be very specific. Is the

1079
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: album dead? Well, if you look at the uh, if

1080
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: you look at the Spotify top fifty, which is consumption, Okay,

1081
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 1: we know that it's a lot of singles. And let's

1082
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 1: say the Weekend comes out, It'll put out his album

1083
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: and four of the top ten will be weekend tracks, okay,

1084
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: but then they'll fall off okay, and there'll be one

1085
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: track to the next track. We know that people, the

1086
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: customer demands a body of work. If you like something,

1087
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: you want to be able to hear more. What I

1088
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 1: always do if I an act is new to me,

1089
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 1: I'll go on Spotify, see what has the most streams,

1090
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 1: and I'll say I'll play that next. So I definitely

1091
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: wants stuff to be there. But if you go back,

1092
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: you know, before the turn of the century, the game

1093
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: was okay, put out an album in the marketplace, I

1094
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 1: go single to single, you know, I go fight. But

1095
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,439
Speaker 1: the problem then, and the problem has been exacerbated now

1096
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: in the window when you're not in the marketplace, other

1097
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: people will come and fill that hole and you might

1098
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: be forgotten. So is it better just to be able

1099
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 1: to release product on a regular basis? I believe it is.

1100
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 1: I think you can do it all if you're a creator.

1101
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 1: So let's say Drake is making an album, he puts

1102
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: out several singles, leads into an album, and then he

1103
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 1: wants to go and drop other singles after that. He

1104
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: should be able to do that. I think streaming allows

1105
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: us an opportunity to put out music the way that

1106
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 1: we see fit without there being any fucking rules or

1107
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: regulations to to how we go about it. I think

1108
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: that it's so different now. But when you mentioned Drake

1109
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: before as a fan, you're used to getting full bodies

1110
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: of work from him, and people have bought into that

1111
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 1: idea and they believe in him in that way. So

1112
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: let's let's say, you know, it's it's it's our responsibility

1113
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: to create new superstars. Right. People want to know what

1114
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 1: it is you stand for, what do you represent? Etcetera.

1115
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: You have to have a body of work or several

1116
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 1: songs in order to really represent what that is, and

1117
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: it's gonna take time to get there. You gotta put

1118
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: out a lot of music to really convince people to

1119
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: buy in to who you are, what you stand for, etcetera.

1120
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: And to want to be in business with that artist,

1121
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 1: to want to like go to the show, to want

1122
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: to watch your performance on the award show, to like

1123
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 1: buy your merch etcetera. But it's our job to come

1124
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,919
Speaker 1: up with ways to make sure we're telling your full

1125
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: story and getting people to buy into that artist. But

1126
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 1: to what degree is the label behind in time of

1127
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 1: the artists? Because what do we know? The label makes

1128
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: their money off recorded music and they have an antiquated concept.

1129
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: The more tracks we put out, the more money we

1130
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 1: can make. Now in today's you know, a lot of

1131
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 1: these albums you go on Spotify. But I don't think

1132
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: not because I don't think that I don't We don't

1133
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: operate from a place of telling them you have to

1134
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: do it this way though you know what I mean,

1135
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: like that you have that you have to put it

1136
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: out this way. I like to work with artists that

1137
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 1: are self aware enough and know what they what they

1138
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 1: want to say or put out in the market, and

1139
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: we can help support that and come out with ways

1140
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: to do it. Or if they if they come and

1141
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 1: play you records and then we talk about a strategy

1142
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 1: that makes sense for them. But the idea of dictating

1143
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: to an artist what they do and how they go

1144
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: about it doesn't really exist anymore. We can present ideas

1145
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 1: to them, but you want them to be self aware

1146
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 1: enough to know what they want to do. What's a

1147
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: full expression? So the artists assigned to you, they've had

1148
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: some success, they come with the record. You don't think

1149
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 1: the record is up to your standards? Will you say so?

1150
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 1: And will you refuse to put it out? No, I'll

1151
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 1: let them bump their heads and fail and let them

1152
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 1: learn their lesson. The speaking of failures, talking UH to

1153
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 1: Chris Rue, manager of Logic, and he was saying, how

1154
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: failure is not the disaster that it once was then

1155
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: in the streaming era. If you fail, you can come

1156
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: back and agree. And why do you think that is?

1157
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 1: Because it's really I think overall is about your resilience, right,

1158
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: and so if you keep putting music out, people will

1159
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: catch on eventually, you know, and I think that people

1160
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 1: have such a short attention span. If something was successful

1161
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: and you come right back with the next project and

1162
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 1: it is great, you actually have the opportunity to remind

1163
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: people that it's about the music, that it's about how

1164
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: great the music is. And that's what streaming has allowed

1165
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: us to really see that it's about how great the

1166
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: music really is. So you really the failure is really

1167
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: in if you give up, if you just decide that

1168
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: I can't take it. I can't take the opinions of

1169
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: you know, anyone saying that my album was a flop,

1170
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: et cetera. Then you just like go into the pression

1171
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: somewhere and don't create great music. You gotta keep going,

1172
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 1: and I think hip hop as a culture has has

1173
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 1: been operating from that place. And let's say you signed

1174
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 1: a new ract, what would you tell them to do

1175
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: to get themselves down? Good question, Okay, because I have

1176
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: a few new acts that we're working on um. In

1177
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: addition to the music that they're making right well, I'm

1178
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 1: also talking about the distribution of set music. They have

1179
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: to speak to their fans and the like, whatever the

1180
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 1: messaging is in their music, they have to speak to

1181
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 1: their fans build their fan base and know what it

1182
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 1: is about them that will make people connect to them

1183
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: and build off of that. I also feel like it's

1184
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 1: really important to be on the road and develop a

1185
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: touring fan base in addition to putting out music or

1186
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 1: being on social media. I think oftentimes we've come across

1187
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 1: artists that might have an incredible social media following and

1188
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: then don't know how to connect to people in real

1189
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 1: life um. And I think the live show element is

1190
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: a huge part of this, and I think that we

1191
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 1: need more artists and know how to do that, So

1192
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: I would definitely get them to focus on that. I

1193
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 1: think more now than ever, we have to make sure

1194
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 1: we're developing artists that can put together great shows um

1195
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: and knowing knowing how to connect with their fans at

1196
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 1: the same time. And also, you know, we talk about

1197
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: the fashion element that kind of feeds into music as well,

1198
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 1: like building that out if that if that's right for

1199
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 1: the artist, So it just depends it's specific to each artist.

1200
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 1: And how about in terms of raw distribution, do you

1201
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: have a new act, would you say to be on

1202
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: SoundCloud first? Would you say to put out a mixtape

1203
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 1: before you go? Depends on who the artist is. It

1204
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: depends on who the artist is. And the funny thing

1205
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 1: about what a mix tape is now so crazy what

1206
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: we call things EP, mixtape, project, It all has these labels.

1207
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 1: It's music at the end of the day, so we

1208
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: really just try to title it's something that fits in

1209
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:54,880
Speaker 1: the scheme of whatever the the artist is ultimately trying

1210
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: to get to. Let's say we're building to an album,

1211
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 1: or there's an overall theme for several projects they're putting out.

1212
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: Will come up with that as opposed to calling it

1213
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: a mix tape. We put out mix tapes and they're

1214
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: really albums and make money on them and they've been

1215
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 1: successful as if their albums, you know what I mean.

1216
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 1: So it just depends on how you want to And

1217
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: also in the hip hop world, there's very much a

1218
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 1: culture online. Something comes out, people know and it immediately

1219
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 1: runs up the Spotify chart. Radio tends to be months behind.

1220
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 1: How important is terrestrial radio in the hip hop world?

1221
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: It's the end goal, that's it. It used to be

1222
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 1: the place for a discovery, but for us now it's

1223
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 1: like it's just another, you know, another thing to mention

1224
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 1: on the hot sheet of all the things that you've achieved,

1225
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: but it's the end goal. You know, once you've put

1226
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 1: a record out, had a lot of success, etcetera, and

1227
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 1: then it goes to radio, it's just another like another marker.

1228
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 1: I hope you're enjoying this episode of the Bob Left

1229
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 1: Sets Podcast. If you want to hear sound bites or

1230
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 1: check out videos and photos of our guests, go to

1231
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: at tune in on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Now more

1232
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: of Ethiopia Hab to Maria, recorded in front of a

1233
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 1: live audience of the Music Media Summit in Santa Barbara

1234
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 1: on The Bob Left Sets Podcast. Okay, questions for Ethiopia.

1235
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 1: Razor here, Jim has, Mike's Jake, thanks for coming here.

1236
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 1: Today's quite inspiring. I think, um two things. One comment

1237
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 1: I want to make to you, Bob, which you've never

1238
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: brought up, is Spotify doesn't actually have an album chart,

1239
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: and I think if they had an album chart, maybe

1240
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: we'd know what albums are doing well. Because I just

1241
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 1: tried to look it up and it doesn't exist. So

1242
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:57,959
Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest problem is that you can't

1243
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 1: really talk about albums in reference to Spotify because yeah,

1244
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 1: tracks come out and then they go down. Because that's

1245
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 1: the process is one single at a time, so maybe

1246
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 1: we should be pushing them to have an album chart

1247
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 1: and then maybe would make a difference. Um um um.

1248
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 1: The other thing is, uh, I'm wondering these days, as

1249
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 1: president of a major label or division of a major label,

1250
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: let's say, or major for what it is, how much

1251
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: are you looking at um these bands like The Logics

1252
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 1: and um um uh these other acts that are kind

1253
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 1: of doing it on their own first and then coming

1254
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: in with a label, or are you starting right from

1255
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: scratch with bands that have you you found talent, but

1256
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 1: they have no footprint whatsoever. It's a balance of both

1257
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 1: for sure. If if there's something that has no following

1258
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: or you like there's nothing going on with them at all,

1259
01:07:56,280 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 1: if they at least know exactly what they want to say,

1260
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 1: who they are as artists, I'm willing to invest in

1261
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 1: that if I think the music is incredible, because then

1262
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 1: I can help develop and cultivate that. And I've done

1263
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: that right. But you're definitely you definitely want to be

1264
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: a part of you know, things that are moving or

1265
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 1: being created and if you can help amplify it on

1266
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 1: the global level. I think what Logic is done, It's

1267
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 1: been incredible UM, but I'm definitely still about development and

1268
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,599
Speaker 1: finding things that are that are great and unique and different.

1269
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 1: How often do you as a label experience the chance

1270
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:31,760
Speaker 1: the robber paradigm where you want an act in the

1271
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 1: access No, I want to do it myself. I mean

1272
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:39,639
Speaker 1: it's come up a lot. It's come up a lot recently.

1273
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 1: I have to be completely honest about that. And so

1274
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 1: the idea is, you know, what can we offer them

1275
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 1: and how do we really show what the difference will

1276
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,639
Speaker 1: be if we're involved in their careers or not? Right?

1277
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 1: And I think that it comes down to the people

1278
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,599
Speaker 1: at the company's It comes down to really showing them

1279
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: the difference and money that they'll be making. I also

1280
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 1: think it's important to show on a global level what

1281
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 1: you add to UM to an artist in their overall career.

1282
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: It's been a real education process. It's come up a

1283
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 1: lot where artists have no idea about the global aspects.

1284
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 1: We talk about urban music or hip hop culture being

1285
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 1: huge is huge around the world, but a lot of

1286
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 1: the acts don't travel around the world. They don't go

1287
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 1: really penetrate the markets the way that they should. And

1288
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 1: so that's been something that I've been working on because

1289
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 1: I want to show people the difference and not only

1290
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 1: you know, show money you can make in the market,

1291
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: but how you can really increase yourselves, how you can

1292
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:35,520
Speaker 1: go get big branding deals, how you can really amplify

1293
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: your overall career if you travel um And there are

1294
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 1: a lot of artists who don't see it because they're

1295
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 1: either just caught up in the perception of what they

1296
01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:44,639
Speaker 1: see on social media and a little bit of money

1297
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 1: that they're making on the road and they feel like

1298
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: they're popular. That's not real fucking success. Like I think

1299
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:51,920
Speaker 1: for a lot of these younger kids, they feel like

1300
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:54,679
Speaker 1: the popularity is what they see on social media. They're

1301
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:56,639
Speaker 1: hot for the minute. They can go to these parties

1302
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:57,960
Speaker 1: and they can make a little bit of money on

1303
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 1: the road and they're in the cool crowd. But you're

1304
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 1: not really making real money. You haven't achieved real success yet.

1305
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:08,720
Speaker 1: And I think it's important to educate them. We went

1306
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 1: through an exercise when we were like, let's put real

1307
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 1: numbers in front of them. But is it affecting royalty

1308
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 1: rates as you're trying to move these acts? Are you

1309
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:20,120
Speaker 1: is the label giving up a higher percentage? No, it's

1310
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:23,840
Speaker 1: just educating them on the more money they can be

1311
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: making and how their sales can be. I mean, I

1312
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:27,400
Speaker 1: went through it. We we just went through this with

1313
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:30,680
Speaker 1: me Goes honestly, Um, you know, we've had a very

1314
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 1: successful album with them with Culture too. I mean, you know,

1315
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: I'll be honest about it. Getting them to go to

1316
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:38,759
Speaker 1: Europe for their European promo run was a real fight,

1317
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,760
Speaker 1: but it was an education process for them because they

1318
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:43,799
Speaker 1: had been with three hundred where they didn't know anything

1319
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 1: about it. Their last record wasn't fully supported. They didn't know.

1320
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:49,920
Speaker 1: They would just go collect checks to do shows over there,

1321
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:51,759
Speaker 1: but they didn't know about really going to the market,

1322
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 1: really supporting the record, really doing the shows and how

1323
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 1: to really connect with the fans there and what that

1324
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 1: would lead to. They love fashion. Let's go spen a

1325
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 1: real week in Paris. Let's put a dinner together where

1326
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 1: we're sitting with these designers and its planning sees that

1327
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 1: really connect to a bigger thing, you know, like things

1328
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 1: that can help grow their careers. And that's the add

1329
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 1: of value that we can bring to them because then

1330
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 1: they'll have a longer career. It as some more sales

1331
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 1: for us, you know, Okay, over here, would love to

1332
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: hear a story a time when you were in a

1333
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 1: room with a contemporary, a hot contemporary artist, and they

1334
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:31,639
Speaker 1: met an iconic artist, maybe someone from the earlier days,

1335
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 1: something from the city, where you were in that room

1336
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 1: and you got to see the interaction and I'd love

1337
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 1: to know what your takeaway was and what the takeaway

1338
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 1: was for each of the artists. M hmm. Well, okay,

1339
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 1: I've been in the room where we introduce people to

1340
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 1: Barry Gordy and the you know, the reverence that people

1341
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,719
Speaker 1: have for Mr Gorty is really you know, it's incredible

1342
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 1: because people don't know what he's like, you you know,

1343
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:05,720
Speaker 1: they have no idea and he's he's pretty charismatic. His

1344
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 1: memory is incredible. So and I this wouldn't be an artist,

1345
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 1: but I'm thinking about um the guys some QC and

1346
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: we introduced them to Mr Gordy in the office and

1347
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 1: what that meant for them. So Quality Control is the

1348
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 1: label out of Atlanta that has me goes in Yahti

1349
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:28,800
Speaker 1: and um. As I was trying to redevelop Motown. One

1350
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:32,560
Speaker 1: of my goals was to use Motown as a platform

1351
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 1: for other black entrepreneurs that were developing their own companies

1352
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 1: and so QC was one of them, and I did

1353
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 1: my deal with them three and a half years ago

1354
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:42,599
Speaker 1: and Mr Gordy was at the office one day. Steve

1355
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:45,519
Speaker 1: Brenna and I were meeting with him and the guys

1356
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 1: some QC were there. This is before things popped off

1357
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 1: for them, and we had them meet and the level

1358
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:56,879
Speaker 1: of inspiration, you know, they just look like little kids,

1359
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 1: you know, meeting there. You know the person they looked

1360
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 1: up to the most. It just and and he named So.

1361
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: The funny thing is, as they're talking, I knew this,

1362
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 1: but we never talked about it before. Mr Gordy tells

1363
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:12,200
Speaker 1: them that he called his A and R meetings the

1364
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:16,839
Speaker 1: quality control meetings, and like it was the big aha

1365
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 1: moment for them. They're like, oh, this is meant to be,

1366
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 1: Like this is everything is aligned And even though we

1367
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:26,599
Speaker 1: weren't having success, Yeah, I think we all knew, like

1368
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 1: it's gonna come, that's gonna happen, and that was That

1369
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 1: was a pretty cool moment that happened a few years ago. Okay,

1370
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:35,639
Speaker 1: get a Mike, writer's next, But I have a Mike,

1371
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:37,640
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna ask I was going to ask the

1372
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:40,200
Speaker 1: question that you just kind of brought up, which was,

1373
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 1: you know, when you go and visit When you go

1374
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,759
Speaker 1: and visit Disney, no one's ever said louder gym before.

1375
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:50,920
Speaker 1: Right when you go and visit Disney, you know, there's

1376
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 1: they try to instill Walt Disney into you right when

1377
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 1: you're at on the and the app in the new

1378
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 1: especially the new Apple campus, like there's you know, quotes

1379
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 1: from Steve Jobs on the walls, like is it is

1380
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:10,360
Speaker 1: Verry Gordy important to Mr Gordy? I guess he is

1381
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 1: it important to your culture that you're building too? You know,

1382
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 1: remember what was absolutely definitely one of the things that

1383
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:22,600
Speaker 1: we've done. So when I first met him, go to

1384
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 1: Mr Gorty's house, Um, he has a ton of footage

1385
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 1: from all you know, from all his and our meetings

1386
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,240
Speaker 1: from back when they would have picnics, etcetera. With the

1387
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:35,759
Speaker 1: Motown family. He had a ton of He recorded everything,

1388
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:38,519
Speaker 1: but wasn't doing anything with it. And so I told

1389
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:41,840
Speaker 1: Steve about it. Long story shore, you know, we convinced

1390
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:44,360
Speaker 1: Mr Gorty to do to allow us to do a

1391
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 1: Motown documentary using all of this footage that he has,

1392
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:49,599
Speaker 1: which is something that I think a lot of people

1393
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: tried to do but we've been able to achieve it.

1394
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 1: So it's something that will come out next year. But

1395
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 1: in the motivation behind it was to one remind people

1396
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:02,960
Speaker 1: the a foundation of how Motown was created, but also

1397
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 1: the foundation of like music right like it's about great songs,

1398
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 1: it's about work ethic, it's about people coming together, and

1399
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 1: for him it was also about love, you know. Um,

1400
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:17,000
Speaker 1: and also too, we connected the dots between a lot

1401
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,080
Speaker 1: of other people that have been influenced by motown over

1402
01:15:19,120 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 1: the over time. So okay, Mark, First of all, this

1403
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:27,680
Speaker 1: has been a great conversation. I just want you to

1404
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 1: know that I've got two daughters and I think it

1405
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 1: would be amazing if they could go into the business

1406
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:39,439
Speaker 1: and and and just following your footsteps because I and

1407
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:41,280
Speaker 1: if I had sons, i'd say the same thing. But

1408
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Really it's been very inspirational. Um. My

1409
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: question though, is do you find it in today's marketplace?

1410
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 1: Do you find it more challenging to develop a brand

1411
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 1: new artist or to help with the comeback of and

1412
01:15:56,160 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 1: already established artist who's coming back from very disappointing album,

1413
01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:05,679
Speaker 1: both commercially or whether it's commercially or or critically or both.

1414
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 1: It's tough with you know, trying to have a the

1415
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 1: comeback for an artist that's been established and it's been

1416
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 1: around for like, let's say, ten years, it's tough. It's

1417
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 1: tough if they haven't taken the time to really educate

1418
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:24,799
Speaker 1: themselves on the new way of operating. I know artists

1419
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 1: that were huge ten years ago that really haven't caught

1420
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:32,559
Speaker 1: onto the way streaming is working like that, don't really

1421
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:34,760
Speaker 1: have Spotify or Apple Music on their phones. I'm like,

1422
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 1: what are you doing? How do you even know? But

1423
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 1: they they're artists who don't really you know what I mean,

1424
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 1: And they were they were huge ten years ago. So

1425
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 1: it's really tough, um and they can't they can't really

1426
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: adjust to the new marketplace. They can't really adjust to

1427
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 1: the way things are operating now. And you know, you

1428
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 1: can lead them down the role, but if if they're

1429
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: not willing to change the way that they operately, it

1430
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 1: also really comes down to change. How willing are you

1431
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: to change? Some people get stuck in their ways. Can

1432
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:06,000
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder have another hit? What would how will you

1433
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:13,160
Speaker 1: make that happen? I don't know, Bob, but I'll take

1434
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:16,280
Speaker 1: the challenge. Well, is it about inspiring him? You know,

1435
01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:21,160
Speaker 1: you have a long time Steve. Stevie has um, He's

1436
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: been writing music, He's had music for I mean every

1437
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:26,760
Speaker 1: We've tried for years to try and get into music

1438
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,760
Speaker 1: out of Stevie. I pray it happens. We will all

1439
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 1: do everything we can to uh and in a hip

1440
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 1: hop world, and we've seen in the last year all

1441
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 1: the pop acts have failed in the marketplace, Miley Cyrus,

1442
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:42,720
Speaker 1: Katie Perry, Taylor, Taylor Swift. If someone is in the

1443
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:45,880
Speaker 1: urbans field and it's more of a ballad or an

1444
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 1: R and B thing than hip hop, can it work? Yes,

1445
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 1: But it's not even about it being just about hip hop.

1446
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 1: I think it ultimately comes down so the great how

1447
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 1: great the song is, you know what I mean when

1448
01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:00,960
Speaker 1: we talk about Katie or Miley, etcetera. They can all

1449
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:04,679
Speaker 1: come back with great, great songs, and we need music.

1450
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:06,720
Speaker 1: We need them to come back, and we need them

1451
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,439
Speaker 1: to come back with substantial music that can connect. I

1452
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:12,479
Speaker 1: think we also need, you know, outside of these new

1453
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:14,479
Speaker 1: hip hop artists are hip hop artists in general to

1454
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:16,639
Speaker 1: talk about the times and things that are happening without

1455
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:19,639
Speaker 1: sounding preachy. We need our pop artists to create great

1456
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:22,080
Speaker 1: music that can connect to all people as well. I

1457
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 1: grew up loving pop music also, you know what I mean.

1458
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 1: And so you want you want to see that happen. Okay,

1459
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:32,360
Speaker 1: over here, there was someone with a Mike Okay, Hi

1460
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: Ethiopia First, I'm seconding what Mark said. Just total respect

1461
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 1: on every level for you. So and thank you also

1462
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:46,080
Speaker 1: for definitely handling up Bob's challenging questions about race and gender.

1463
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:52,080
Speaker 1: So just round of applause for that, I hope. I okay,

1464
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:55,320
Speaker 1: So if you don't push the edges, you'll never know

1465
01:18:55,360 --> 01:19:00,920
Speaker 1: where they are. UM. Question about representing and promoting female artists,

1466
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:03,360
Speaker 1: and uh, I know you've worked with Erica, but I do.

1467
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:06,439
Speaker 1: But I also noticed your roster has more men and

1468
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:09,400
Speaker 1: wondered if you could address that. Do you see a

1469
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:13,200
Speaker 1: day when it'll be more balanced? Are there particular challenges

1470
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:16,280
Speaker 1: in promoting women? Why is it that there are less

1471
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:21,000
Speaker 1: women at the top? Uh? Women artists? That's all I

1472
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:26,000
Speaker 1: want is more female artists. Um. And in my career

1473
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:28,679
Speaker 1: before as a publisher, I worked with more female talent.

1474
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:32,559
Speaker 1: Thank you for noting that my roster is more men

1475
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 1: because it's something. When people ask me what I'm looking for,

1476
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:36,599
Speaker 1: I'm like, I want a female I want I want

1477
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 1: a female artist. I want UM. I don't know why

1478
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:44,200
Speaker 1: it's so hard to find great new female talent. I

1479
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:46,800
Speaker 1: don't know what the problem is. I've been looking. I've

1480
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 1: been I've been completely honest with you. I've been looking.

1481
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:54,439
Speaker 1: I've been trying to find UM great female X to

1482
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 1: sign for me. I want. I want them to be

1483
01:19:56,880 --> 01:20:00,400
Speaker 1: artists that write their own music as well UM and

1484
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 1: are pretty self aware. I think that I've come across

1485
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 1: a lot of talent that might have the right aesthetic,

1486
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:10,919
Speaker 1: but not have you know, the substance or the feeler,

1487
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:15,200
Speaker 1: or they don't really know who they are. And I'm

1488
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 1: not I'm not really trying to subscribe to any of that. UM.

1489
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:20,720
Speaker 1: I don't think that that really cuts through. And I've

1490
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 1: seen I've seen a lot of female artists get distracted

1491
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:31,639
Speaker 1: or confused by perception or celebrity, etcetera. And you have

1492
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:33,920
Speaker 1: to really be a beast at it. You see the

1493
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:36,680
Speaker 1: best of the best in the marketplace, the superstars. They

1494
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 1: really are incredibly intelligent, have an incredible work ethic, and

1495
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 1: um work their asses off right and know when to listen.

1496
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:51,040
Speaker 1: I know who they know who like who on their

1497
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 1: team are the people to listen to who when they

1498
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:54,639
Speaker 1: need better people on their team? And I just think

1499
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:59,560
Speaker 1: it's it's it's hard to find that now. Okay, so

1500
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:02,760
Speaker 1: the next question here, But if anyone has anyone they

1501
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:04,680
Speaker 1: want to bring something, please let me know because I

1502
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 1: am actively looking for new female at Mr Borrow. Um Hi,

1503
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:13,000
Speaker 1: I just want to echo at the other folks set

1504
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:15,240
Speaker 1: and when and when you find the right man, he

1505
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:18,680
Speaker 1: will be a very lucky man. So um I believe that.

1506
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:24,360
Speaker 1: Um No, in all seriousness, you know you talked about

1507
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:27,920
Speaker 1: well one thing Stevie, so I run Live Nation Japan. Um,

1508
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 1: we're talking to c A. Stevie Wonder is still worth

1509
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 1: fifty to sixty thousand tickets in that market and we're probably,

1510
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:39,760
Speaker 1: I hope we're gonna do to say tom Arenas with

1511
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 1: them in twenty nineteen. And wow, Um, that's like a

1512
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 1: dream come true for me to get to work with Stevie.

1513
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 1: Can't have a hit again. I'm sorry you can't have

1514
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:52,720
Speaker 1: a hit again and you should come. Um yeah, you

1515
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:56,560
Speaker 1: mentioned that the trouble of getting me goes to Europe, right, Um,

1516
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:58,800
Speaker 1: what's happening in Asia right now is there's been this

1517
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:01,720
Speaker 1: e d M revolution, which is still kind of happening.

1518
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 1: Japan is the most mature of the Eastern markets, and

1519
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 1: hip hop is all the rage there. However, these acts

1520
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:15,479
Speaker 1: can't really sell many hard tickets yet. UM. The biggest

1521
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:18,120
Speaker 1: acts I'm not going to name, UM are worth about

1522
01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:22,920
Speaker 1: three thousand tickets. UM. Live Nation and Insomniac. I came from.

1523
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:26,519
Speaker 1: Insomniac took an investment in the Rolling Loud Festival, which

1524
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:29,719
Speaker 1: clearly you know all about will be there in Miami,

1525
01:22:30,040 --> 01:22:33,479
Speaker 1: the premier hip hop festival in the world. Right there's

1526
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 1: fifty sixty thousand people. Every hot hip hop artist plays it.

1527
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 1: We're trying to bring it to Asia. UM. We had

1528
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:45,920
Speaker 1: dates on hold. UM, We're gonna do it in multiple countries. UM.

1529
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:51,880
Speaker 1: The artists weren't reasonable with their fees. UM. They were not.

1530
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:55,240
Speaker 1: They were not. UM, and I think that's going to

1531
01:22:55,320 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 1: be a challenge. So I guess my question to you is,

1532
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:02,639
Speaker 1: how how do you see the Asian market for hip hop?

1533
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:05,160
Speaker 1: You know, I'm kind of like the Asian flag waiver

1534
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:08,760
Speaker 1: at this conference. Um, because it is the panacea for

1535
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 1: all of this. There's huge opportunity there, and it's disturbing

1536
01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:16,840
Speaker 1: to hear that everyone's coming back asking for a ton

1537
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:20,160
Speaker 1: of money because again, I know, the mentality is to

1538
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:22,400
Speaker 1: just hit a lip to just get a big check

1539
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 1: as opposed to thinking about really penetrating the market and

1540
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 1: the opportunity that exists there. And so it's again it's

1541
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 1: the education process. And I think that you know, sometimes

1542
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:35,920
Speaker 1: your job is to be a translator, and um, it's

1543
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:38,720
Speaker 1: about having the right people on the team that can

1544
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 1: really translate for them. Why it makes sense. You know

1545
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:46,080
Speaker 1: a lot of times at my company when it comes

1546
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 1: to some of the hip hop, the bigger hip hop

1547
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:50,559
Speaker 1: acts that we have, I end up having to do

1548
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:53,360
Speaker 1: everything because I can be a translator in some ways

1549
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:57,000
Speaker 1: to get them to do things. But if there's if

1550
01:23:57,160 --> 01:23:59,479
Speaker 1: if anything is pertaining to me goes and then coming

1551
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:03,000
Speaker 1: to come into the market, let me okay. But but

1552
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 1: I'll tell you I've heard about I've heard about certain

1553
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:10,040
Speaker 1: huge acts that have never come to Japan. Huge some

1554
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:12,800
Speaker 1: of our biggest superstars here have not have not gone there,

1555
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 1: and I just think it's a a lack of understanding. Yeah,

1556
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 1: but I think that there would be an opportunity to

1557
01:24:21,479 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 1: get a few of the big managers together and to

1558
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 1: really walk them through it and educate them. And I

1559
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:30,400
Speaker 1: think that would be the right next step. Okay, anybody

1560
01:24:30,439 --> 01:24:32,400
Speaker 1: else with a Mike there? Yeah, I got a quick

1561
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:36,240
Speaker 1: question for you. Um, there's no doubt the urban and

1562
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:39,000
Speaker 1: hip hop rap side have have had such a direct

1563
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 1: pulse to the consumer more so than any other format. Right,

1564
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 1: it's it's it's mind bogging. I watched it with my

1565
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 1: own kids. Do you ever sit around and go, wow,

1566
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:51,160
Speaker 1: I can't believe these other formats have not figured this out.

1567
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 1: Like when you said what you guys have been able

1568
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:56,160
Speaker 1: to figure out and go, it's amazing they haven't figured

1569
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:59,800
Speaker 1: that out, you know, from a strategic standpoint, right you

1570
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:01,920
Speaker 1: and like other genres of music. Yeah, when you sit

1571
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:03,439
Speaker 1: another show like I can't believe that, you know, when

1572
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:05,439
Speaker 1: you're sitting your strategy of media with other forms, you know,

1573
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:07,679
Speaker 1: and they go they can't believe they have not figured

1574
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:09,600
Speaker 1: this out. Right, And I'm not trying to get you know,

1575
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:11,760
Speaker 1: the secret recipe at the best chocolate chip cookie, right,

1576
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:14,320
Speaker 1: but you know what you know you said, like, I

1577
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 1: can't believe rock or whatever it is, they have not

1578
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 1: figured out this one thing to connect. Here's the thing.

1579
01:25:19,400 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 1: I also I believe that's always just a matter of time.

1580
01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 1: I'm not one of those people that's like, oh, this

1581
01:25:24,479 --> 01:25:26,639
Speaker 1: genre of music is dead or whatever. I think that

1582
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 1: that's all bullshit. I think that it's only a matter

1583
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:33,680
Speaker 1: of time before music is music and reinvests itself, right, So,

1584
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:39,040
Speaker 1: so I think that you just don't give up on

1585
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 1: it and you figure out what is connecting. I even

1586
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:43,880
Speaker 1: think that when you think think about campaigns for artists,

1587
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:46,479
Speaker 1: like what is it that will connect the dots? And

1588
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:49,080
Speaker 1: I think that as you think about other genres kind

1589
01:25:49,080 --> 01:25:51,640
Speaker 1: of have to dig deeper to figure out how to

1590
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:56,000
Speaker 1: really make Speaking of that, is this country urban crossover?

1591
01:25:56,680 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 1: Is this a blip on the radar screen or a

1592
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:00,880
Speaker 1: new trends? It's a new trend and I think it's

1593
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:03,599
Speaker 1: real because we're looking at kids that might have come

1594
01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 1: up listening to country music and also like like the

1595
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:12,360
Speaker 1: the fusion of the different genres, that's a real thing. Well,

1596
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:15,040
Speaker 1: it's very interesting because I said, I think people are graziers.

1597
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:17,720
Speaker 1: They know more things, and it's interesting. What it's seen

1598
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,639
Speaker 1: is the most right wing of formats their audience has

1599
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:24,360
Speaker 1: fans too. You see what's happening with Cain Brown, which

1600
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:27,960
Speaker 1: has been amazing, right, but he's mixed kids singing country

1601
01:26:28,000 --> 01:26:29,880
Speaker 1: music and it's real, it's authentic to him. I think

1602
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:33,000
Speaker 1: the other thing is like the bullshit meter is real, right,

1603
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:36,439
Speaker 1: you can't you can't fool kids. I've never been one

1604
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:39,000
Speaker 1: of those people that believe like you dictate what's next,

1605
01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:41,160
Speaker 1: and you tell people what's next, they connect to what's

1606
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:43,040
Speaker 1: real and authentic. And I think that we're seeing a

1607
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:46,960
Speaker 1: lot more that pop up where people are um inspired

1608
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:49,240
Speaker 1: by a lot of different kinds of music. They can

1609
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:52,600
Speaker 1: infuse them and they create great music from that, and

1610
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 1: then it ends up cutting through and then we think

1611
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 1: it's like the biggest thing in the world. It's like, no,

1612
01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:58,360
Speaker 1: someone just did what was real for them. Now, it's

1613
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:01,679
Speaker 1: also interesting, you said earlier, or they're looking for female

1614
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:05,559
Speaker 1: artists who are writers. Does this pretend the end of

1615
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:11,720
Speaker 1: the record with fifteen writers. I wouldn't say that. I

1616
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:14,679
Speaker 1: just know specifically for me when I when I when

1617
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:18,960
Speaker 1: I've worked with artists who know who they are and

1618
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:20,720
Speaker 1: know what they want to say, I feel like it

1619
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:23,880
Speaker 1: goes further. So That's what I'm looking for. But as

1620
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:26,560
Speaker 1: a publisher, do you think it's good, bad, or irrelevant

1621
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:30,840
Speaker 1: that there's so many writers on these records. Yeah, I

1622
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:33,680
Speaker 1: mean definitely, because your your shares are getting cut down.

1623
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:35,639
Speaker 1: When you have that many writers on one song, it's

1624
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:37,920
Speaker 1: you're getting nothing really, you know what I mean, Like

1625
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:41,280
Speaker 1: you might have two or three four cool, but when

1626
01:27:41,320 --> 01:27:43,639
Speaker 1: you have that many writers on, you're not really making ship,

1627
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, You're really not You're really not.

1628
01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:48,439
Speaker 1: I mean, you know for hip hop records, who I'll

1629
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:50,120
Speaker 1: say this, there are a lot of people on these

1630
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:54,080
Speaker 1: songs because you're seeing a lot of producers work together.

1631
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:59,519
Speaker 1: Producers work together on tracks, but they end up with,

1632
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:02,639
Speaker 1: you know, not a lot of percentage on their records.

1633
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,639
Speaker 1: And again that's an education process. People don't really understand

1634
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:08,400
Speaker 1: what it means. And at this point in time to

1635
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:11,360
Speaker 1: what is it a hackney thing or is it still

1636
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:14,759
Speaker 1: valid to have a guest appearance to boost a career.

1637
01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:17,280
Speaker 1: You don't have to have it, you don't have to

1638
01:28:17,320 --> 01:28:18,880
Speaker 1: have it, But does it still work if you want

1639
01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:23,640
Speaker 1: to do that way? Definitely? Okay, any else in the

1640
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:28,240
Speaker 1: back there, Marty, good afternoon, and um I do bleed

1641
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:31,000
Speaker 1: orange being a Clemson guy. But for those of you

1642
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:34,720
Speaker 1: who have never been to Athens, Georgia. You have to go.

1643
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:41,639
Speaker 1: It's an amazing experience. UM, great rich music history and

1644
01:28:42,479 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 1: Atlanta and Athens are something to hold. So for you,

1645
01:28:44,920 --> 01:28:48,720
Speaker 1: anybody who's down in the Southeast to highly recommend go

1646
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:52,000
Speaker 1: check it out. UM. I think I'm paraphrasing a little bit,

1647
01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:55,559
Speaker 1: but i think you said something earlier about UM. Today,

1648
01:28:55,680 --> 01:29:01,240
Speaker 1: failure means giving up. So in the spirit of technology

1649
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:05,960
Speaker 1: and connectibility and the fact that we're all connected. When

1650
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:10,879
Speaker 1: you are evaluating an artist, do you consider an artist's

1651
01:29:11,160 --> 01:29:16,880
Speaker 1: resiliency UM with respect to their evaluation of talent? Is

1652
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:19,200
Speaker 1: that something that you feel like you have to throw

1653
01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:24,439
Speaker 1: into the blender when you're That's a huge part of it,

1654
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:27,320
Speaker 1: huge part of how resilient you are. I mean, I've

1655
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:29,639
Speaker 1: learned that in my own life and in my own career.

1656
01:29:30,040 --> 01:29:33,320
Speaker 1: But I've seen many examples of if you are resilient,

1657
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:36,000
Speaker 1: if you can just push through, it will make all

1658
01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:39,360
Speaker 1: the difference. Eventually it connects. And you know, at this point,

1659
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:41,840
Speaker 1: I've been in the business about twenty years now, right,

1660
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:47,759
Speaker 1: and I've seen people that just never gave up, people

1661
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:50,080
Speaker 1: that some people doubt it and never thought would ever

1662
01:29:50,160 --> 01:29:52,479
Speaker 1: make it, or ever have a hit. There some people

1663
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:58,639
Speaker 1: who should give up, right And you know, I think

1664
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 1: people who should give up are the peop that are

1665
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:04,240
Speaker 1: only motivated by the fucking fame. That's the truth. If

1666
01:30:04,280 --> 01:30:09,080
Speaker 1: you don't, if you're not really motivated by your love

1667
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:13,120
Speaker 1: and passion for the music, you can tell the difference,

1668
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:16,120
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And also if you're only

1669
01:30:16,160 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 1: motivated by the money, if you're only motivated by the

1670
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:22,639
Speaker 1: money and you don't operate with any level of ethics

1671
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:25,760
Speaker 1: in this business, I want you out this ship too,

1672
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:27,719
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like that, because you're really

1673
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 1: kind of, um, disrespecting our world. Because you have to

1674
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:34,559
Speaker 1: have a respect for the music. I think that we've

1675
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:36,160
Speaker 1: suffered from a lot of people that don't have a

1676
01:30:36,200 --> 01:30:40,000
Speaker 1: respect for music and the gift of music. And I

1677
01:30:40,040 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 1: have a huge regard for it. So I want to

1678
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:44,840
Speaker 1: see more people in it that do as well. And

1679
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:47,639
Speaker 1: I think that, um, everything is coming full circle. But yes,

1680
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:54,360
Speaker 1: resiliency is a big part of this. You've been utterly fat. Okay,

1681
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:57,800
Speaker 1: I don't want to wear it out. Okay you I'll

1682
01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:01,960
Speaker 1: let you be the wrangler here, Jim. Okay, great talk,

1683
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:04,840
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. I'm a bloody foreigner. I arrived

1684
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:08,879
Speaker 1: in this country three years ago and I wasn't aware,

1685
01:31:09,200 --> 01:31:14,559
Speaker 1: and I didn't even understand structural racism. Coming here was

1686
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:17,760
Speaker 1: mind blowing to see how that works. I mean, you're

1687
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:22,479
Speaker 1: talking to a room that is almost exclusively white right now.

1688
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:27,240
Speaker 1: Then I went into the Black Panther movie on the

1689
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 1: day came out because I was so stoked by the soundtrack.

1690
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:34,080
Speaker 1: I got into that theater and I was almost exclusively

1691
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:37,200
Speaker 1: the only white person in that movie, which was a revelation.

1692
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:42,200
Speaker 1: That movie was amazing and a celebration in itself. Now,

1693
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:44,320
Speaker 1: how do you see now it crossed like one point

1694
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:48,120
Speaker 1: two billion dollars on the box office. How do you

1695
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 1: how do you foresee ripple effects of that movie? What

1696
01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:57,280
Speaker 1: did it do? It created opportunities for other movies to

1697
01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:00,800
Speaker 1: be created around black culture, et cetera. But also I

1698
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:03,160
Speaker 1: think it brought together a lot of people in the

1699
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:05,160
Speaker 1: sense so for me one of them. I mean I

1700
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:08,040
Speaker 1: could talk about Black Panther all day because I told

1701
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:11,679
Speaker 1: my parents I was like, Wakanda was supposed to be Ethiopia.

1702
01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:16,519
Speaker 1: They sucked it up anyway, But um, I think that

1703
01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:20,000
Speaker 1: what they created with that piece of art is what

1704
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:25,160
Speaker 1: I I thought would happen with music. I thought that

1705
01:32:25,200 --> 01:32:27,679
Speaker 1: there would be an artist that would create a great

1706
01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:30,599
Speaker 1: song or a great body of work that would connect

1707
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:32,840
Speaker 1: people in the same way. And I think that Black

1708
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:37,439
Speaker 1: Panther the film really brought together all people, you know

1709
01:32:37,439 --> 01:32:40,719
Speaker 1: what I mean, all kinds of people, all ethnicities, and

1710
01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:44,960
Speaker 1: allowed people to connect and respect, you know, our culture.

1711
01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:47,439
Speaker 1: And it was based in love. When you want to

1712
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:49,560
Speaker 1: Kanye wants to talk about love, that film felt like

1713
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:52,679
Speaker 1: it was based in love and the idea of bringing

1714
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:56,839
Speaker 1: bringing people together in that way. Um. I thought music,

1715
01:32:57,000 --> 01:32:59,080
Speaker 1: I thought there would be a musical artist or someone

1716
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:02,240
Speaker 1: that would create our that would connect people, but it

1717
01:33:02,360 --> 01:33:05,479
Speaker 1: ended up being that film that that did it. And um,

1718
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:08,160
Speaker 1: I think it's the beginning of seeing other art forms

1719
01:33:08,200 --> 01:33:11,680
Speaker 1: that can bring all people together without making people feel alienated.

1720
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:14,120
Speaker 1: Because you may have been in a theater with with

1721
01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:17,160
Speaker 1: all black people, but I was in Westwood at I

1722
01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:19,840
Speaker 1: Pick and I was like the only Black person in

1723
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:21,519
Speaker 1: there with a bunch of white people, and I was

1724
01:33:21,720 --> 01:33:24,000
Speaker 1: I was happy about it because I got to see

1725
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:28,040
Speaker 1: other cultures watching the film too, appreciating it. So and

1726
01:33:28,160 --> 01:33:32,880
Speaker 1: one more question, Jim Hey, I was interested in the

1727
01:33:33,080 --> 01:33:37,320
Speaker 1: the correlation as you see. But you know, ticket sales

1728
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:41,080
Speaker 1: and visiting markets and and you said about not being

1729
01:33:41,120 --> 01:33:43,800
Speaker 1: big because you have a following, but we all know

1730
01:33:43,880 --> 01:33:50,800
Speaker 1: what global success means. And you know back in the nineties, uh,

1731
01:33:51,280 --> 01:33:54,439
Speaker 1: it was of course a different world. But to actually

1732
01:33:54,479 --> 01:33:57,559
Speaker 1: make I'm from Sweden, so so to to get the

1733
01:33:57,640 --> 01:34:00,400
Speaker 1: great artists of I was working on face records and

1734
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:03,160
Speaker 1: law and all these records, bringing these artists in and

1735
01:34:03,200 --> 01:34:06,040
Speaker 1: to have a presence. I think it's still as important,

1736
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:08,920
Speaker 1: but it's it's so hard to connect with the audience

1737
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:11,360
Speaker 1: and get the ticket sales now, as the gentleman from

1738
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:14,920
Speaker 1: Live Nation told us, because there is no presence and

1739
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:17,960
Speaker 1: there's his song song song songs, so what as a

1740
01:34:18,479 --> 01:34:20,280
Speaker 1: you know, your motime, But it's do you know what

1741
01:34:20,280 --> 01:34:23,640
Speaker 1: what does the Universal do to promote these acts in

1742
01:34:23,800 --> 01:34:27,080
Speaker 1: foreign countries and how do they support bringing them over

1743
01:34:27,160 --> 01:34:28,960
Speaker 1: these days? I have no clue. And it's like I

1744
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 1: think it's really connected. Yeah, I mean I think I

1745
01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:35,559
Speaker 1: touched on it a little bit before because the global

1746
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:39,040
Speaker 1: global marketing and supporting our acts around the world is

1747
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:42,559
Speaker 1: like a huge priority for US um and I can

1748
01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:45,160
Speaker 1: tell you we come up with campaigns and plans that

1749
01:34:45,240 --> 01:34:49,519
Speaker 1: are about each territory. And you know, we have marketing

1750
01:34:49,560 --> 01:34:52,280
Speaker 1: people that really talk about what's happening in each territory

1751
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:54,720
Speaker 1: and I hold them responsible for making sure they know

1752
01:34:55,160 --> 01:34:58,599
Speaker 1: how to impact that artists in each territory. And it's

1753
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:00,720
Speaker 1: not the same campaign for each artists. You know, I

1754
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:04,240
Speaker 1: expect them to know what will penetrate which artists is

1755
01:35:04,240 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 1: the right person to collaborate with the local artists. They're like,

1756
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:09,439
Speaker 1: they have to know the touch and field of each X.

1757
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:11,880
Speaker 1: But the global aspect of it all is very important

1758
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:14,640
Speaker 1: us and we work with each territory to come up

1759
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:16,760
Speaker 1: with the plans for our X. I'll tell you at

1760
01:35:16,760 --> 01:35:18,320
Speaker 1: the top of this year. And we do this like

1761
01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:20,120
Speaker 1: two or three times a year. We go around the world.

1762
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:22,360
Speaker 1: I went to Sweden, I went to France. I went

1763
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:24,600
Speaker 1: to London with Steve and our head of international and

1764
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:27,439
Speaker 1: we presented all our top priorities for the year and

1765
01:35:27,479 --> 01:35:29,760
Speaker 1: we talked about the plans for each of those X

1766
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:32,920
Speaker 1: and you know, in each office, we went to Spotify offices,

1767
01:35:32,920 --> 01:35:34,960
Speaker 1: et cetera, and we talked about what our rollout and

1768
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:37,439
Speaker 1: they came to us with ideas and I mean, it's

1769
01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:43,320
Speaker 1: a huge priority for us huge Ethiopia, You're incredibly charismatic.

1770
01:35:43,880 --> 01:35:45,800
Speaker 1: As I say, I think you're gonna have to check

1771
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 1: man on a regular basis because they're drawn to you.

1772
01:35:49,320 --> 01:35:52,200
Speaker 1: But this has really been fabulous. I opening. I'm sure

1773
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:54,679
Speaker 1: everyone's agreeing with me that we've learned so much here today.

1774
01:35:54,720 --> 01:36:07,320
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Thank you for having than that wraps

1775
01:36:07,439 --> 01:36:10,120
Speaker 1: up this week's episode of The Bob Left Sets podcast

1776
01:36:10,439 --> 01:36:14,800
Speaker 1: with executive extraordinaire Ethiopia Have to Marry Him President of

1777
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:19,280
Speaker 1: Motown Records, Recorded live in Santa Barbara only a month ago.

1778
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:22,800
Speaker 1: She's a force of nature. Look out for her in

1779
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:36,880
Speaker 1: the future. Until next time, I'm Bob Left. Sez can

1780
01:36:37,200 --> 01:36:47,320
Speaker 1: think of me reads don't know me? Exact must be out,

1781
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:48,400
Speaker 1: don't se