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Speaker 1: From Mahard.

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Speaker 2: We're Innovation, Money and Power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.

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Speaker 3: Ahmed Ludlow in San Francisco. Caroline hides off today. This

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Speaker 3: is Bloomberg Technology coming up on the program. ARM prepares

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Speaker 3: for its IPO with a roadshow slated for next week.

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Speaker 3: We'll discuss with our team, and we also speak to

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Speaker 3: Ross Gerber of Gerber Kawasaki Plus full earnings coverage ahead.

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Speaker 3: Dell saurs to a record high on a PC recovery,

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Speaker 3: while broadcons slumps amid a disappointing forecast. We talk AI

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Speaker 3: in earnings, and Tesla ravamps the Model three and slashes

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Speaker 3: pricing for its premium vehicles in an all out push

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Speaker 3: to boost sales. Will bring you those details one future

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Speaker 3: company that they end up in public markets ARM. It's

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Speaker 3: one of the most anticipated stock listings of the year

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Speaker 3: and now ARMS looking to set a date for its

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Speaker 3: IPO with a roadshow kicking off after the Labor Day

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Speaker 3: holiday in the US. With the latest details, Bloomberg's Leanna Blaker,

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Speaker 3: who leads M and A coverage for US. Okay, so

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Speaker 3: I think we have a date for pricing and the roadshow.

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Speaker 1: What do we know?

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Speaker 4: So the date is going to be September thirteenth for

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Speaker 4: the pricing of the ipeo, that's the actual IPO, but

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Speaker 4: trading isn't expected to start until the next day, which

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Speaker 4: is September fourteenth. So this is right around the corner.

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Speaker 4: And while ARM is aiming to list on those dates,

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Speaker 4: it could always move. The timeline for IPOs is always

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Speaker 4: uncertain and it really depends on how meetings with investors go.

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Speaker 4: Those meetings will start next week when the road show launches.

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Speaker 4: The first signal of the roadshow launching will be early Tuesday.

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Speaker 4: We're expecting a filing to come out for ARMED to

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Speaker 4: update its perspectives, and it'll publish for the first time

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Speaker 4: a price range of where they'll be marketing shares.

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Speaker 3: We talk on Blue Bow Technology about ARM is kind

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Speaker 3: of the starting gun for a series of technology IPOs

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Speaker 3: that we're anticipating. But also the size and scope of

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Speaker 3: this is important. What are the numbers that we think

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Speaker 3: in terms of money being raised in valuation?

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Speaker 4: We reported yesterday for the first time that Soft Bank

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Speaker 4: is sort of scaling back how much they're going to

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Speaker 4: raise this isn't because of the prospects of the company.

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Speaker 4: In fact, they're very bullish on the company. And Matt

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Speaker 4: sayoshis the SoftBank CEO, does not want to part with

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Speaker 4: more than ten percent of ARM. They one hundred percent

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Speaker 4: of ARM. And originally the Vision Fund, which you might

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Speaker 4: remember is that vicious fund that lost a lot of

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Speaker 4: money through the startupfents. They had owned twenty five percent

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Speaker 4: stake in ARM. Recently that steak was sold back to Saftbank.

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Speaker 4: So because the Vision Fund is no longer a seller

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Speaker 4: in this IPO, they were expected to be a seller,

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Speaker 4: but they no longer are, soft Bank to hold on

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Speaker 4: score shares. So for that reason, ARM is going to

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Speaker 4: raise potentially between five and seven billion, which is lower

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Speaker 4: than the amount we originally published, which was eight to

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Speaker 4: ten billion. So it's a bit complicated, but the main

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Speaker 4: point is that SoftBank is going to cash out here

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Speaker 4: with a lot of proceeds, but not as much as

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Speaker 4: we originally thought.

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Speaker 3: It is complicated, but it is the one that we

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Speaker 3: are watching in the world of technology. Bloombos Leanna Baker

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Speaker 3: giving us all of the latest details and after this

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Speaker 3: long weekend here in the US, we are waiting for

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Speaker 3: some movement on arm right. Joining us next Ross GERBA, President,

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Speaker 3: CEO and co founder of Gerber Kawasaki. Ross is you

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Speaker 3: and I were talking off camera an astonishingly busy week.

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Speaker 3: I want to start on that job's data, and we

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Speaker 3: always frame it as such, jobs data. What will the

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Speaker 3: FED do and how does that impact the technology sector?

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Speaker 1: Was your reaction to the numbers this morning?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I still I've been saying this for

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Speaker 2: so long. The FED is done. I mean, all they're

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Speaker 2: going to do is create more imbalances in our economy

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Speaker 2: by really attacking just a few industries That's all rates do.

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Speaker 2: And when you look at what's happening with housing in

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Speaker 2: the banking sector and the risks of the FED continuing

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Speaker 2: to raise rates and the tremendous losses the FED is

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Speaker 2: now taking on its own portfolio that the taxpayers are paying,

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Speaker 2: you know, it really doesn't make sense. All the numbers

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Speaker 2: are trending in the right direction. We have completely restrictive

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Speaker 2: rates right now. Businesses can't borrow, individuals can't buy houses.

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Speaker 2: They're having kids that can't move up. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: certainly affecting the economy, and many companies are done hiring.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're just done hiring for now, and so

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Speaker 2: we're seeing a.

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Speaker 1: Very good environment.

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Speaker 2: If the FED just lays off right here and lets

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Speaker 2: things work itself out, I think the next move is

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Speaker 2: lower for the FED next year.

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Speaker 1: You know, Russ.

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Speaker 3: The story of twenty twenty three has been artificial intelligence

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Speaker 3: driving this equity market higher. And there are specific names

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Speaker 3: you and I will get into, but the Fed's always

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Speaker 3: been there in the background. When you're assessing your investment

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Speaker 3: priorities and investment thesis, which are you focused on more

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Speaker 3: the opportunity and all the impacts of higher rates on valuations.

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Speaker 2: Well, you've got two really competing forces here, with rates

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Speaker 2: being super attractive. Like clients coming in to our firm,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's very easy for me to make them

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Speaker 2: five six seven eight percent by buying bonds, and from

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Speaker 2: any clients, that's the return they're shooting for.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of.

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Speaker 2: Great if you're conservative and older and we haven't seen

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Speaker 2: rates like this in over twenty years. But on the

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Speaker 2: other hand, the maximum return I see making on these

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Speaker 2: bonds is let's say five six seven eight percent right

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Speaker 2: where equity is over the long term of average ten

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Speaker 2: percent a year in the s and P five hundred,

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Speaker 2: where if we own the NASTAC small caps or things

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Speaker 2: like my fund GK, which are really growth oriented and

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Speaker 2: concentrated funds, we can expect much higher rates to return.

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Speaker 2: So if the Feds at the top of the rate

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Speaker 2: raising cycle and we've already valued in this effect on

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Speaker 2: you know, the market and valuations and the next really

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Speaker 2: move for rates or to stay the same or lower.

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Speaker 2: We expect, you know, earning will drive the.

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Speaker 1: Next move in markets. It's not going to be like

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Speaker 1: a Pe expansion.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's what investors have to understand for

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Speaker 2: the market to move higher, earnings asked to move higher,

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Speaker 2: and same with individual securities as well.

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Speaker 3: All right, Ross, let's go from the macro to the

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Speaker 3: micro and have a bit of fun. I want to

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Speaker 3: talk to you about in Nvidia. You've had a lot

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Speaker 3: to say about that name and in particular its associational

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Speaker 3: relevance to Tesla and a comparison between the two.

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Speaker 1: Take it away was your thesis?

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Speaker 2: So my thesis is that Tesla and Autonomy was where

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Speaker 2: in Nvidia and Tesla originally met. So Tesla used to

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Speaker 2: use video chips and building their autonomy systems and the

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Speaker 2: model less back in the day, and Tesla started making

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Speaker 2: their own chips, are designing their own chips because in

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Speaker 2: Video is like, we're not going to design GPUs specifically

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Speaker 2: for Tesla, so Tesla's like, all right, we'll do it.

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Speaker 2: So over the years, the two companies have, you know,

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Speaker 2: really not competed, but continued to develop hardware and software

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Speaker 2: for autonomy. And with that, many of the in Vidio

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Speaker 2: GPUs were used in crypto and then cloud and now AI.

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Speaker 2: So for the first time we see a convergence of

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Speaker 2: actual applications, which is gener of AI, check GPT and

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Speaker 2: then autonomy full self driving, and we have these applications

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Speaker 2: and it's just driven this massive investment from all the

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Speaker 2: major tech companies to upgrade their databases and their systems

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Speaker 2: to being intelligent.

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Speaker 1: And they have to buy in Vidia chips to do this.

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Speaker 2: So I think both companies represent the best of American innovation,

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Speaker 2: technology and opportunity over the next decade. So boy, I'm

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Speaker 2: super bullish on these two companies. There are two of

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Speaker 2: my top three holdings in my fun GK, and I

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Speaker 2: think investors, even though these valuations are very high, have

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Speaker 2: to think out over the next five to ten years.

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Speaker 2: Wh's really going to drive growth in our economy And

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Speaker 2: it's always been technology, and AI is a tremendous leap

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Speaker 2: forward in technology.

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Speaker 3: You know, if you think about specific technology or specific products.

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Speaker 3: We've talked a lot about the H one N one

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Speaker 3: hundred GPU series this year for obvious reasons. They are

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Speaker 3: the chip of choice or the tensacle GPU of choice

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Speaker 3: for AI. Less about Dojo and Tesla's own proprietary silicon.

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Speaker 3: Do you still assign a lot of the potential for

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Speaker 3: Tesla on that competence in silicon?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? And I think that's in the valuation of Tesla

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Speaker 2: because obviously if it was an EV maker, you look

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Speaker 2: at Rivian, which is a great EV maker, its valuation

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Speaker 2: is you know, five percent of Teslas. So when you

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Speaker 2: when you think about why is Tesla such a valuable company,

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Speaker 2: it's because of its technology and that does center a

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Speaker 2: lot around AI Dojo chips. They're really machine learning and

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Speaker 2: ability to now train the cars through AI clusters. They

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Speaker 2: just bought a huge in video, you know, H one

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Speaker 2: hundred cluster of Really they're not really chipped or like

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Speaker 2: these massive machines actually that you add into your database.

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Speaker 2: So when you look at a company like Salesforce, which

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Speaker 2: had a great numbers. And I use Salesforce at my company,

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Speaker 2: and you start adding AI to this platform, it's going

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Speaker 2: to be like a game changer for Salesforce and it's users.

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Speaker 2: So I think that there's so many companies in Big

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Speaker 2: TAC that can benefit from this, and Nvidia and ultimately

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Speaker 2: Tesla are the roads to get reaching these efficiencies through

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Speaker 2: AI and autonomy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we told in the show to speak about how

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Speaker 3: Salesforce has pricing power as well. Right, they could charge

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Speaker 3: seventy five hundred per years.

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Speaker 1: That we spend so much. Yeah, we spend so much.

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Speaker 3: We're short in time, and I want to get to

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Speaker 3: Disney and Charter because Disney's name that you hold and

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Speaker 3: follow closely.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of that spat?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I feel like being a Disney long

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Speaker 2: term share older, you feel like you're getting kicked in

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Speaker 2: the head over and over again. But this is really

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Speaker 2: about why do I watch cable TV. I actually am

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Speaker 2: a Spectrum user. I was about to tweet them and

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Speaker 2: say pay the damn fee because the only reason I

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Speaker 2: watch Spectrum is for sports, and so it's absurd that

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Speaker 2: you're cutting off sports from your you know, subs when

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Speaker 2: cable's dying, and the only reason people watch cable is

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Speaker 2: for sports pretty much. So you know, we're in this

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Speaker 2: new period of time between linear TV and cable and

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Speaker 2: this you know, convergence of streaming and this battle for

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Speaker 2: who's paying for what and where and it's just playing out.

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Speaker 2: But any end spectrum will pay because people only want

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Speaker 2: to watch sports, you know, I mean, that's bottom line.

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Speaker 1: That and Taylor Swift Russ.

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Speaker 3: You are a private investor in the entity known as

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Speaker 3: X formerly known as Twitter. I reported yesterday that specifically

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Speaker 3: the biometric data policy update only applies to premium subscribers.

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Speaker 3: It involves a government issued ID with a selfie or

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Speaker 3: a double.

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Speaker 1: Verification through picture.

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Speaker 3: The response I got on the X platform was astonishing.

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Speaker 3: What do you, as an investor and user of X

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Speaker 3: make of that privacy policy update?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, you can argue two sides of this

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Speaker 2: coin with almost every decision X makes. You know, I

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Speaker 2: think part of it is great, you know, like profiles

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Speaker 2: should actually correspond to an actual human and checking the

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Speaker 2: current verification system, in my mind, doesn't really work.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's kind of good, but not great.

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Speaker 2: This is very similar to what the bitcoin companies were

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Speaker 2: doing when you were signing up is you'd have to

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Speaker 2: do the same thing and send a picture of yourself

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Speaker 2: with your ID and that would verify you for taxes

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Speaker 2: and all this kind of stuff. So this isn't an

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Speaker 2: uncommon thing for people in the digital world to do.

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Speaker 2: I think, for a social media platform and one that's

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Speaker 2: building an AI platform, it's a little bit big brotherish

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Speaker 2: and scary that now I'm trusting Elon with all my

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Speaker 2: biometric data and I can totally get the pushback as well.

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Speaker 2: So you know, there's a plus and the minus to

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Speaker 2: this thing. I don't know how quick I am to

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Speaker 2: upload my driver's license to Twitter yet, you know, so

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Speaker 2: I get it, you know. So I think some of

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Speaker 2: these things that's really meant to make the purity of

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Speaker 2: the platform better. But at the same respect, people aren't

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Speaker 2: that excited to give away biometric data to Twitter, either, you.

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Speaker 3: Know or ex Ross Gerber, president, CEO and co founder

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Speaker 3: of I Think. I threw a dozen different names and

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Speaker 3: stories at you. What a fast start to the show.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Much more ahead. This is Bloomberg Technology.

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Speaker 3: The big news is we go back to the technology

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Speaker 3: sector overnight being Tesla. Tesla revamping the Model three sedan

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Speaker 3: with sleeker looks and longer range while slashing prices of

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Speaker 3: its premium vehicles in an all out push to boost

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Speaker 3: its own sales. For more, I'm delighted to be joined

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Speaker 3: on set by Bloomberg Stan a whole now that refresh

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Speaker 3: Model three we start there, but that's only in China

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Speaker 3: and I think Europe, not yet here in the US.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: What was funny was last night I kept like refreshing

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Speaker 5: the Tesla you know, web page to see if it

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Speaker 5: was in the US. But no, it's just China and Europe,

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Speaker 5: which makes sense. They retooled the China factory first.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we've been waiting on that one.

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Speaker 3: I think more of a surprise, potentially was the continuing

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Speaker 3: downward price of Model ESNX, the most expensive a Tesla's offering.

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Speaker 1: What do we know about that?

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Speaker 5: So the sn X are really like a tiny share

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Speaker 5: of Tesla's overall sales, but by slashing the prices, they

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Speaker 5: now qualify for the seventy five hundred dollars text credit

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Speaker 5: under the Inflation Reduction Act this country in the United States.

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Speaker 5: So this isn't all out pushed by Elon to chase volume,

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Speaker 5: which he forecasts. You know, he telecast to everyone.

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Speaker 1: That that's what he was going to do. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, reminder, audience, I think the line from Elon Musk

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Speaker 3: has always been that they're willing to sacrifice profit to

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Speaker 3: protect growth.

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Speaker 1: Just to explain that to us.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so they are willing to sacrifice profit margins or

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Speaker 5: gross margins to maintain their market share.

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Speaker 1: And it's really put the.

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Speaker 5: Other automakers sort of on the back heel, because how

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Speaker 5: do you compete with tessel on price?

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Speaker 3: Now, I think you and I quickly reflect on the

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Speaker 3: kind of big breaking news of this week that we.

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Speaker 1: Worked on together.

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Speaker 3: That is, Federal process cuts are looking into this procurement

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Speaker 3: order we reported a year ago.

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Speaker 1: The subpoenas have been issued.

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Speaker 3: You know, this is the latest twist and term, but

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Speaker 3: it centers around Omi daf Shah. Just explain who Omi

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Speaker 3: daf Shar is and why are we talking about him?

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Speaker 6: So.

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Speaker 5: Omid is one of Elon's top lieutenants, and he's an

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Speaker 5: interesting character in that he seems to work at all

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Speaker 5: of Elon's companies. He appears to be working at X,

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Speaker 5: he worked at Tesla for a long time. He's really

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Speaker 5: kind of the architect of Gigafactory Texas. He also at

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Speaker 5: one point had a VP role at SpaceX. And even

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Speaker 5: though he's at the center of this probe because he

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Speaker 5: apparently ordered people at Tesla to order this special glass

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Speaker 5: for a house that Elon was thinking of building.

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Speaker 1: He is still employed.

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Speaker 5: And you know where this feral probe is headed?

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Speaker 1: Headed is a big question?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we replied it reported according to sources that these

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Speaker 3: subpoenas are issued and one of the issues centered on

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Speaker 3: communications to and from Omi daf Shah and other TESTA executives,

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Speaker 3: and we will continue to report on that. Bloomberg, Dana Hole,

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Speaker 3: thank you very much. The other top story in the

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Speaker 3: tech sector is Dell. Shares of Dell hitting a record

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Speaker 3: high today after reporting better than expected sales of personal

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Speaker 3: computers and data center hardware, is fueling hopes of a

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Speaker 3: recovery in the market for corporate technology. Who's with us?

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Speaker 3: Who else? Bloomberg's Brody Ford out in New York. This

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Speaker 3: is an astonishing share reaction, Brody, let's start with it.

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Speaker 3: What a sell side is at least saying about this.

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Speaker 7: We hear that phrase better than feared, and I cannot

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Speaker 7: think of a better example than this. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 7: sales are down thirteen percent, but we thought.

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Speaker 1: It was going to be eighteen.

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Speaker 7: This is pretty good, so let's buy the stock, right. So, yeah,

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Speaker 7: it's up twenty five percent. And what we're really seeing

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Speaker 7: here is that the demand for PCs, particularly business PCs,

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Speaker 7: are stabilizing quicker than we thought. As well as getting

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Speaker 7: a little up whift on the server. Business companies set

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Speaker 7: us do to AI could be doing a better macro environment.

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Speaker 7: We all want to tell an AI story, but that's

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Speaker 7: part of it as well. So the board.

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Speaker 1: Sales were just a little better than we expected.

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Speaker 7: You know, we saw HP a couple of days ago

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Speaker 7: saying that the recovery is going to take longer than

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Speaker 7: we thought, and Dell really took the other side of

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Speaker 7: the coin, which I think is surprising a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of folks.

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Speaker 7: Is often the two results track each other pretty closely.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it is not surprising that there is an AI

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Speaker 3: discussion in the context of Dell, But you know, what

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Speaker 3: they said was, this is a long term tailwind.

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Speaker 1: What is the AI story for Dell?

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Speaker 3: What is it that Dell does that is relevant to

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Speaker 3: ours official intelligence?

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Speaker 7: We talk about clouds so much that we forget. Some

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Speaker 7: big companies still use servers. They still need servers, and

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Speaker 7: Bell sells them, and they sell them with a bunch

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Speaker 7: of those nice and video GPUs in there, and they say, hey,

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Speaker 7: you want to run some on premise generative AI solutions,

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Speaker 7: this is the one for you. And so they said

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Speaker 7: that they have two billion dollars in backlocked orders for

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Speaker 7: a specific type of server which is marketed to be

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Speaker 7: good for AI.

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Speaker 1: So essentially they say.

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Speaker 7: That long term, more AI workflows, more need for servers,

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Speaker 7: more Bell winning.

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Speaker 3: All right, Bloomberg's Brady for this week for you here

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Speaker 3: on the show, and with plenty of earnings, Thank you

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Speaker 3: very much. The other big earning story is in the

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Speaker 3: chip sector. Investors were initially kind of underwhelmed with Broadcomms

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Speaker 3: results out yesterday. Some analysts weighed in why that might be.

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Speaker 3: Have a listen.

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Speaker 1: It's not a bad result.

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Speaker 3: I do think people were hoping for more, just given

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Speaker 3: all of the recent hype around AI. That was Stacy Raskon,

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Speaker 3: Bernstein's senior analyst on Bloomberg TV's The Close yesterday evening.

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Speaker 3: Let's turn to one of our internal experts on the

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Speaker 3: chip sect of Bloomberg's Eaan King. You and I talked

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Speaker 3: a lot about Broadcom going into it, what the AI

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Speaker 3: story would be.

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Speaker 1: What was the AI story in the end.

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Speaker 8: I mean, the AI story was as promised. The unfortunate thing, though,

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Speaker 8: was the how that reflected on the overall company Basically hoptown.

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Speaker 8: The CEO said, look, you know, all of our upside

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Speaker 8: is coming from this large language model build out that

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Speaker 8: we're seeing else kind of flat at best. He described

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Speaker 8: it as a soft landing, But obviously the market took

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Speaker 8: that as like the overall demand for semiconductors not fantastic.

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Speaker 3: Well, what I enjoyed talking to you about, genuinely is

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Speaker 3: the technology story, like understanding what each chip maker does

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Speaker 3: in the AI supply chain. So explain Broadcom's offering in

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Speaker 3: the data center context.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean they have two big main plays here.

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Speaker 8: The one is that they really dominate the market for

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Speaker 8: what are called switches. These are chips that decide where

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Speaker 8: the traffic goes. Basically, one computer's got some information needs

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Speaker 8: to get to another. The switch chip is going to

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Speaker 8: be what makes those incredibly fast decisions to send that.

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Speaker 1: Data around to switch it.

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Speaker 8: The other play that they have, and that's quite a

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Speaker 8: big play as well is Google.

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Speaker 1: We've heard about.

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Speaker 8: The TPUs, Yes, they're own in house.

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Speaker 1: Who makes them?

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Speaker 8: Who designs the broad Com.

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Speaker 3: The legacy of Broadcom? Well, an important part of his

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Speaker 3: business is Apple. Frankly, it makes short distance communications at

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Speaker 3: aaka Wi Fi and Bluetooth. If AI is doing well,

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Speaker 3: but sales growth is kind of low single digits, what

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Speaker 3: does that tell us about the smartphone business?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean Hat made an interesting comment yesterday he said, look,

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Speaker 8: our wireless division is basically defying gravity. What he was

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Speaker 8: meant by that was overall things are just not great.

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Speaker 8: As we know, we've seen you know, the numbers. But

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Speaker 8: demand is kind of okay for that division. They're going

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Speaker 8: to see some growth into this quarter. Where as you know,

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Speaker 8: as Mark Gooman has told us, we're going to see

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Speaker 8: a new iPhone, We're going to see new products and

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Speaker 8: that features some Broadcom chips. But overall, not fantastic, was

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Speaker 8: the bottom line?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg Zy and King another very busy person this earning

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Speaker 3: season in the chip sector. And let's move from what's

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Speaker 3: happening in the public equity markets the tech space and

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Speaker 3: move to one of our other favorite risksket risk assets,

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Speaker 3: which is Bitcoin joining us now to get the pulse

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Speaker 3: on the VC crypto space after all of the Bitcoin

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Speaker 3: ETF decisions earlier this week is at least clean still

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Speaker 3: Mark found and managing partner. The firm has about eighty

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Speaker 3: five million dollars in assets under management that focuses on

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Speaker 3: bitcoin companies. So I guess the news, which is not surprising.

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Speaker 3: We discussed it twenty four hours ago on this program.

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Speaker 3: Is the SEC kind of punting a decision on ETF

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Speaker 3: applications for many names. But what have you made of

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Speaker 3: everything that's happened in the last seven to ten days.

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Speaker 9: Well, BTC bitcoin matures along two distinct but very closely

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Speaker 9: related path that's Bitcoin the asset and then Bitcoin protocol

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Speaker 9: and technologies, including bitcoin's likening network, it's payment protocol. The

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Speaker 9: Grayscale victory over the SEC earlier this week is a

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Speaker 9: significant advancement for the maturation and the adoption of BTC

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Speaker 9: the asset because it makes a spot ETF much more likely.

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Speaker 9: It also limited the arguments that the SEC can advance

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Speaker 9: in the future in denying spot ETF, and particularly what

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Speaker 9: the court found to be challenging or problematic was the

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Speaker 9: approval of future of a bitcoin futures ETF, while the

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Speaker 9: SEC continued to reject Bitcoin spot ETFs with the argument

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Speaker 9: of course that surveillance sharing agreements were insufficient or that

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Speaker 9: there was potential for the practice of manipulation in those markets.

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Speaker 9: And so what that means is that for the SEC

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Speaker 9: to continue rejecting or denying a Bitcoin spot ETF, they'll

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Speaker 9: have to form a new argument, and one that would

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Speaker 9: be distinct in its properties from future ETFs.

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Speaker 1: And that really shows up.

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Speaker 9: The timeline for which we expect to see spy ETF.

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Speaker 3: We consider the basics of why this is happening. You know,

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Speaker 3: the argument from those that have filed applications is that

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Speaker 3: the ETF would give retail and institutional investors just a

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Speaker 3: mechanism to exposure. You are a VC that invests in

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Speaker 3: bitcoin companies, So how do you play this longer term story?

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Speaker 3: Where do you invest to benefit in the longer run

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Speaker 3: if you know a Bitcoin spot ETF does become authorized, well, so.

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Speaker 9: The expectation that a spot ETF will become authorized exists

440
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 9: in a sort of ecosystem of activity in which we

441
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 9: see BTC the asset further financializing and maturing, and so

442
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 9: we're investing there an example of this is that we

443
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 9: recently made an investment in a company called Meanwhile, which

444
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 9: is the first company to offer a BTC denominated whole

445
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 9: life insurance policy, which has the effect of further financializing

446
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 9: bitcoin as an asset. At the same time, there's advancement

447
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:54,719
Speaker 9: happening in bitcoin payments technologies, including to facilitate introduction of

448
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 9: bitcoin payment technologies lightning networks, specifically to match the needs

449
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 9: of under other trends that we've seen in the tech

450
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 9: field and in particular AI.

451
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: I want to go there.

452
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:12,360
Speaker 3: You know, the Bitcoin Lightning network was something we discussed heavily,

453
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 3: you know, not in twenty twenty three or the end

454
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty two, but in prior years. Now, with

455
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 3: all of the momentum in AI, how do you see

456
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 3: AI putting momentum back into a focus on the underlying

457
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 3: technology for bitcoin.

458
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 9: What's really exciting is that Bitcoin developed slowly and purposely.

459
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 9: So Bitcoin technologies and Lightening Network in particular was developed

460
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 9: to solve global scale problems. It wasn't developed to introduce

461
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 9: a quick trend or to serve as speculative behavior or gambling,

462
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 9: but really it was meant to serve as a payment

463
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 9: infrastructure that was pecure and scalable, and this is what

464
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 9: AI needs. So we know, as AI has become commercialized

465
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 9: and we're seeing products like Chatchipt and others, flouris should

466
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 9: become popular, that fraud and payment and chargebacks would become

467
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 9: a problem for those companies which curtails are addressable market

468
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 9: and one of the advantages of Bitcoin's Lightning Network as

469
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 9: a payment solution is that settlement is instant, So if

470
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 9: you're instantly transmitting value or a product, you can instantly

471
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 9: settle that transaction and mitigate or completely assuage the risk

472
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 9: of chargebacks.

473
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 1: And that sort of fraud.

474
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 9: And in addition to that, because Lightning Network was purpose built,

475
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 9: it scales without the constraint of the underlying blockchain, which

476
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 9: means that activity in the underlying Bitcoin blockchain doesn't curtail

477
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 9: the amount of transactions per seconds that are possible on

478
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 9: the Lightning network, and for AI that's absolutely necessary. You

479
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 9: need to hit scale of millions of transactions per second

480
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 9: or more in order to service the needs of AI companies,

481
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 9: and Likening Network can uniquely do that.

482
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 3: Elise Colleen Stillmark, founder and managing partner. You know, we

483
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 3: really appreciate the explanation of how you play this as

484
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 3: a VC, but such a firm grasp on the underlying

485
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 3: technology as well. Thank you have a good long weekend,

486
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,239
Speaker 3: all right. Coming up here on Bloomberg Technology, we'll look

487
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 3: at the latest health tech trends with founder's fun Partner

488
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 3: delian Asparuhoff and Sword Health CEO V.

489
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: Bentu. That's coming up.

490
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 3: We're also seeing some breaking news crossing the Bloomberg terminal,

491
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 3: the New York Times reporting that Meta, the parent company

492
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: of Facebook, may allow Facebook and Instagram users in the

493
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 3: European Union the EU, to pay to avoid advertising. To

494
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 3: avoid ads that coming from the New York Times, it

495
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 3: did briefly push the shares highed they've been negative, pushed

496
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 3: it into positive territory. As those headlines broke, we are

497
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: now flat as a pancake on Meta platforms. This Friday,

498
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Technology, Okay. On today's VC Spotlight, we're

499
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: taking a look at the latest trends in health tech investments.

500
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: And for this let's bring in Virgilio V.

501
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 3: Benu, founder and CEO of Sword Health, along with founders

502
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 3: Fun Partner and Varda Space Industry's President delian Asparov V

503
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 3: I'll start with you. This is really interesting. The technology

504
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: that you are trying to grow and commercialize is sensor

505
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 3: and software approach to pain management. Just explain sword to

506
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 3: us broadly speaking.

507
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 10: Okay, So basically, we believe that if you have physical pain, right,

508
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 10: if you have low back pain as an example, and

509
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 10: the best solution to your problem, it's not feels, it's

510
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 10: not penk killers, it's not surgeries or injections, should be

511
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 10: high quality, high intensity physical therapy, right, that's the solution.

512
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 10: The problem with that is that the way we do

513
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 10: live a physical therapy, it's still one hundred percent labor intensive,

514
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 10: which really limits and is a bottleneck in terms of

515
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 10: access to care. And so what we've done was we

516
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 10: developed this AI solution that we call our digital therapist

517
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 10: that basically replicates what the human physical therapist will do

518
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 10: in a pretty clinic. But then you can do your

519
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 10: sessions independently at home at seven am in your PGMs

520
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 10: after breakfast without digital therapist, right with our AI solution,

521
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 10: and then everything that you do is remotely supervised by

522
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 10: a member of our clinical team. And so we have

523
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 10: this human plus AI model to how we are changing

524
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 10: how we treat physical pain, which is a bigger problem

525
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 10: in healthcare.

526
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 3: This is an interesting case study because we have one

527
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 3: of your biggest, biggest investors with us as well, So Delian,

528
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 3: you know, why did Sword fit within your investment thesis

529
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 3: when you consider how to play health tech.

530
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, we were originally thinking about this as an investment

531
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 6: thesis at my prior firm, Coastal Aventures. Back in summer

532
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 6: of twenty eighteen, we were analyzing the general healthcare landscape

533
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 6: and surprisingly stumbled across the fact that muscle skeletal care

534
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 6: generally what you think of as physical therapy, but can

535
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 6: have either a wide range of everything from you know,

536
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 6: net lower back, knee surgery, et cetera. In the care

537
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 6: after that was the largest spend in healthcare, and it

538
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 6: was one of the areas where there was very limited

539
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 6: you know, sort of applications of technology. For sure, you

540
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 6: had individual tools that you'd see in brick and mortar

541
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 6: physical therapy clinics, but there wasn't really much technology being

542
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 6: applied to the actual delivery of that care.

543
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: There had been a.

544
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 6: First handful of attempts. They were doing this very thin

545
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 6: technological layer. Think of it as effectively, you know, interface

546
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 6: on top of zoom, but no real technology that was

547
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 6: showing an improved sort of you know, clinical outcome. And

548
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 6: when we met you know, Virgilio and his team in

549
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 6: late twenty eighteen, there are two things that really stood

550
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 6: out to us. One, they had true scientific proof of

551
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 6: their clinical methodology being more effective than going to a

552
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 6: brick and mortar clinic. Everybody else was trying to replicate

553
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 6: brick and mortar, they were actually improving it. And this

554
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 6: paper was published in Nature, so a very pre eminent

555
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 6: scientific journal. And then two, the actual solution was not

556
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 6: just basically put physical therapists behind a zoom screen and

557
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 6: instead was this AI combined with sensor technology that allowed

558
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 6: you to while you're watching your evening.

559
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: TV, actually be doing your niche.

560
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 6: Therapy, your lower back therapy, which just makes it more

561
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 6: convenient and actually significantly improves the clinical outcomes then having

562
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 6: to go in person to a clinic.

563
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 3: The I want to know what it's like you growing

564
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 3: the business, commercializing in your latest round, I think at

565
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 3: the end of twenty twenty one November twenty twenty one,

566
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 3: you've got a two billion dollar valuation, big jump in valuation,

567
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 3: and then you had a lot of momentum, So what

568
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 3: does that look like? Explain how you've grown.

569
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 10: So the reason why we are still going very very

570
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 10: fast since twenty twenty one in spite of these economic

571
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 10: challenges that everyone is facing is because one of our

572
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 10: key value propositions is that we drive cost efficiencies. If

573
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 10: you are a large employer in the US right now

574
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 10: and you want to drive financial efficiency, of course you

575
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 10: can reduce your headcount. That's one way to do it.

576
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 10: But in terms of healthcare, it's not like you can

577
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 10: deny a surgery to one of your employees, right you

578
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 10: are still on the hook for that. And so what

579
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 10: we allow you to do is that instead of a

580
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 10: surgery for your low back pain as an example, you

581
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 10: can use swords and we are able to treat the

582
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 10: passion much more efficiently with higher levels of passion experience,

583
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 10: and of course willly reduce in costs. And the way

584
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 10: we tie all of these up is that we contractually

585
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,959
Speaker 10: guarantee to our clients that we save them many so

586
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 10: then it becomes a no brainer why they should adopt.

587
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 3: Surce Delian quick final to you, you know, one consideration

588
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 3: when you invest in a healthcare startup is its exposure

589
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 3: or risk with the US healthcare system insurance where it

590
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 3: fits in with how the system works. Just explain quickly

591
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 3: how you thought about that.

592
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think in this particular situation, because it's such

593
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 6: a large bucket of spend, you can actually go after

594
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 6: individual self insured employers, right think of like the Fortune

595
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 6: five hundreds, the Walmarts of the world. Internally they have

596
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 6: super sophisticated medical teams. When you're talking about hundreds of thousands,

597
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 6: millions of employees, they may as well be their own

598
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 6: individual healthcare network. And so relative to swords early commercialization

599
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 6: in Europe and Australia where they had to send and

600
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 6: sell to national healthcare systems in the United States, you

601
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 6: can chip off basically the individual employers one at a

602
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 6: time that are very both clinically focused, so they will

603
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 6: appreciate the nature papers that Virgilia is publishing and very

604
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 6: cost conscientious relatives to somebody that's redding a Medicare plan.

605
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 6: Walmart ultimately is delivering their bottom line every single quarter

606
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 6: to public investors rether than being funded by you to

607
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 6: public dollars. And so the combination of the two led

608
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 6: sort to go from effectively having no US commercialization at

609
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 6: the end of twenty nineteen to now being over one

610
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 6: hundred million dollar revenue run rate, largely based in the

611
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 6: United States.

612
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: Fascinating global conversation Videlio Vbentu, founder and CEO, Sword Held

613
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 3: founder's fun partner delian Asparov, Thank you both. This is

614
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 3: bloombog technology. Okay, So for most artificial intelligence companies, adding

615
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 3: dot AI is a pretty important part of indicating that

616
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 3: you are a player in that field. However, dot AI

617
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 3: just happens to be the Internet country code for the

618
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 3: Caribbean island of Anguilla, and that is bringing in tens

619
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 3: of millions of dollars for that island. Beautiful joining me

620
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 3: now on set Bloomboat's Rachel Metz.

621
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: This is a crazy story.

622
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 3: So there are AI companies all over the world cutting

623
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 3: checks to this tiny little island.

624
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: Yes, in a.

625
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 11: Manner speaking, Yeah, So in Guila's country code top level domain,

626
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 11: that's the two letters at the very end dot AI.

627
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 11: A lot of different countries and well all pretty much

628
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 11: all different countries and territories have these two letters that

629
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 11: were assigned to them decades ago, back in the nineties

630
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 11: as the Internet was first getting its leg so to speak.

631
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 11: And Guila has had this for a long time. At

632
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 11: a certain point, I think it was around two thousand

633
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 11: and nine, they opened dot ai domain registration up to

634
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 11: people outside of the country, so it could be people

635
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 11: who didn't live there or have a business there. And

636
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 11: it is the revenue from that has risen steadily. But

637
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 11: this past year, once chat GBT was released, it took

638
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 11: off like a hobby stick.

639
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 3: You have been speaking to some of the officials in

640
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: this tiny island nation who are dealing with this.

641
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: What are the numbers? What's life like for them? That's

642
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: a good question.

643
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 11: So the person that I spoke to, his name is

644
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 11: Vince Kate.

645
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: He actually moved from the US.

646
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 11: To Anguila in the nineties and not to be in

647
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 11: charge of the domain registration, but sort of happened to

648
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 11: land in that spot. So basically, when people register dot

649
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 11: Ai domains with companies like name Cheap or go Daddy,

650
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 11: money goes from those companies to this man, Vince Cape,

651
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 11: and he sends it on to the Aquila government. So

652
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 11: he's been watching this.

653
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: He has a front seat to all this.

654
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 11: He thinks that the country is going sorry, the territory

655
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 11: is going to see twenty five to perhaps thirty million

656
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 11: dollars in revenue this year, which.

657
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 3: Is gone huge bloombergs rachel Mates. Check out her story

658
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 3: on Bloomberg dot com.

659
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: That does it.

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00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: Sadly for the edition of Bloomberg Technology Recap on our podcast,

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Speaker 3: it has been a massive week for earnings for AI

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Speaker 3: and everything in between. From San Francisco. This is Bloomberg

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Speaker 3: Technology