1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff to blow your mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: Works dot com. We may say that we have the 3 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: birth of a new science, a new philosophy, with a 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: new life. The time of deliverance has come at last, 5 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: and henceforward the career of humanity is upward and onward 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: a mighty, a noble, and a godlike career. All the 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: revelations of spiritualism heretofore, all the control of spirits over mortals, 8 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: and the instruction and discipline they have given us, have 9 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 1: only paved the way, as it were, for the advent 10 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: of a great practical movement, such as the world little 11 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: dreams of, though it has long deeply yearned for it, 12 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: and agonized and groaned away its life because it did 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: not come sooner. And this new motive power is to 14 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: lead the way in the great, speedily coming salvation. It 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: is to be the physical savior of the race. The 16 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: history of its inception, its various stages of progress, and 17 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: its completion will show the world a most beautiful and 18 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: significant analogy to the advent of Jesus is the spiritual 19 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: savior of the race. Hence, we most confidently assert that 20 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: the advent of the science of all sciences the philosophy 21 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: of all philosophies and the art of all arts has 22 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: now fairly commenced. The child is born, not long hints 23 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: he will go alone. Then he will dispute with the 24 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: doctors and the temples of science, and then hey, welcome 25 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: to stuff to blow your mind. My name is Robert Lamb, 26 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick. Joe, what is what is going 27 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: on here? I'm reading a quote. This is a quote 28 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: from a Boston newspaper, the June fifty four edition of 29 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: a Boston newspaper called The New Era or Heaven Opened 30 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: to Man, And this passage was written by a former 31 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: Universalist minister named Simon Hewitt. So after this passage, one 32 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: skeptical reader named Emma Hardinge commented that quote nothing could 33 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: be given further beyond vague hints of what was to follow. 34 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: The awful then, which broke off breathless at the contemplation 35 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: of its own inexpressible possibilities. So all this preamble to 36 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: something amazing that's going to change humanity? What on earth 37 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: could Simon Hewitt have been talking about? Well, he was 38 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: referring to something that sat inside the upper room of 39 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: a large tower overlooking the coast beyond the town of Lynn, Massachusetts. 40 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: This is high rock tower. If you want to look 41 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: it up, you can see a picture of this place. 42 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: It still exists to kind of get a sense of it. 43 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: And inside the upper room of this tower were the 44 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: fruits of what I would sort of think of as 45 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: the ultimate backyard engineering project. It is like garage engineering 46 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: gone to the extreme. So from July eighteen fifty three 47 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: to the following spring in eighteen fifty four, a group 48 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: of universalist reformers and spiritualist enthusiasts had been building a 49 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: machine called the New Motor and it would be something 50 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: I'd say probably never seen before on earth, an electro 51 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: mechanical messiah. Yes, which you know this will bring to 52 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: mind a number of different stunning visuals which we would 53 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: like to dissuade you from. We'll make sure we have 54 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: some links to an images of the the electrical Messiah 55 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: in question on the landing page for this episode. But 56 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: but if you think about a dollec from doctor Who, 57 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: from Doctor who, if a dollec or to breed with 58 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: a coffee table, uh their offspring, and they probably resembled 59 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: the be uh decorated with many like dangling Christmas ornaments. Yes, yes, 60 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: so it's a hybrid of a coffee table and a 61 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: dialect decorated for Christmas and serving as kind of kind 62 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: of an altarpiece as well. There's certainly an altarpiece vibe 63 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: to this creation. Sure, And this is bridging two worlds 64 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,119 Speaker 1: that we tend to see as sort of I don't 65 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: know what spectrum it is, but there, whatever it is, 66 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: there at the opposite ends of the spectrum. One is 67 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: religion and the other is technology. I mean, we typically 68 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: think of religion as a very low tech affair. You 69 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: tend to go into churches, I don't know, maybe not 70 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: some churches these days, but you see a lot of 71 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: stuff that recalls an earlier time. And our religious texts 72 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: in most of the major religions of the world are 73 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: very ancient, and thus the metaphors in which we talk 74 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: about our religions tend to be very ancient. And technology 75 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: is you know, it's the very essence of what is 76 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: new and what the future is. I mean, what is 77 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: science fiction that imagines the future usually focused on its 78 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: new technology? Yeah, I mean most of the major world 79 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: religions you have based on ancient cosmologies that sometimes we're 80 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: okay with updating um Generally at certain points in the 81 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: past we will say, all right, we're gonna actually change 82 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: this a little bit to the fit how we live now. 83 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: But for the most part, yeah, they're rooted in the past, 84 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: and technology is ever rooted in the president in the future. Right, 85 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: But today we want to discuss what happens when you 86 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: cram the ends of that spectrum together and you create 87 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: techno religion. So what happens when technology changes religions, what 88 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: happens when technology becomes a component of religious practice, and 89 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: what happens when technology becomes a god or messiah in itself? Right, 90 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: And this is something that has been happening for ages. Uh. 91 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: If you think of technology and the broader sentence, especially, 92 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: humans have always been developing new technologies, developing gadgets, developing 93 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: um more advanced ways of just looking at the world 94 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: around them and manipulating the world around them. And this 95 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: is always gone hand in hand with our ability to 96 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: understand the purpose of life and the purpose of of 97 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: our existence here on earth. Yeah, and the concept of 98 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: purpose is also built into the idea of technology, because 99 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: we typically think of technology is like a machine or 100 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: a mechanism that does a particular job. But if you 101 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: look at the Standard Dictionary definition of technology, it's going 102 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: to say something like the practical application of scientific knowledge 103 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: toward a purpose. So keep all of that in mind, 104 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: keep those definitions in mind as we explore the convergence 105 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: of technology and religion. Yeah, so I was wondering, what 106 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: are some of the earliest examples of the religious use 107 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: of a machine? Like you can only think back so far. 108 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: I mean, of course, nowadays people might I don't know, 109 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: read devotional literature on their iPad or something. But is 110 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: there anything people have been doing for hundreds or thousands 111 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: of years with machines to help them in their spiritual journeys. Yes. 112 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: In fact, we have a couple of really good examples 113 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: of this, the first of which is the prayer wheel, 114 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: which I imagine most people have seen images or footage 115 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: of these, particularly if you've ever traveled into the into 116 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: into East Asia, or or had any kind of contact 117 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: with with with Buddhism. But these tend to be We're 118 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: talking about a wheel and spindle composed of various materials. 119 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: Who find a made made out of you know, ornate metals, 120 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: you'll find them made out of stone. You'll find the 121 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: made out of leather and cotton. And it Uh, it's 122 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: a physical manifestation of the turning wheel of dharma in Buddhism. Okay, 123 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: so physically to picture this is it going to be 124 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: kind of like one of those like game prize wheels, 125 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: uh sort, I mean it's the it's not positioned vertically, 126 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: it's positioned, uh, horizontally. It kind of if you were 127 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: just an outsider looking at it and you knew nothing 128 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:53,239 Speaker 1: about Eastern religion, you might you might equate it with 129 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: with some sort of a dude at at a child's playground, right, 130 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: just something that seems like you just spin it and 131 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: it's cool to spin. But of course it has far 132 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: more purpose than that within the context of the religion. 133 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: Um So the wheel of dharma. Yeah, the wheel of 134 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: dharma and uh, and it's all tied in with accumulating 135 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: good karma, purifying bad karma because you you spin this wheel, 136 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: and in spinning the prayer wheel, you are assisting yourself 137 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: with the with with with the purging of bad karma 138 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: and the accumulation of the good. And this is accomplished 139 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: by the fact that I mean on top of the 140 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: wheel being this, uh, this, this gadget, this device that 141 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: that that represents this um this cosmological idea. The prayers 142 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: are also filled with up to a mile of prayers. Um. 143 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: So we're talking mantras and sutras generally written in Sanskrit 144 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: and uh. The prayers are recited each time the wheel 145 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: makes a revolution. So a pilgrim spins the wheel and 146 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: with each stin helps helps them gain merit and to 147 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: concentrate the mind on the the mantras and sutras that 148 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: are being re enacted by the wheel. Okay, so much 149 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: in the way that say, a lever or a pulley 150 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: might upgrade our ability to do physical work, this wheel 151 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: can upgrade our ability to do spiritual work. Yeah, it's 152 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: I guess one way to think of it would be 153 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: think about a cassette player. Right. Um, So you're you're 154 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: just a really huge fan of I don't know, what's 155 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: your fite. What's your favorite metal album, your favorite rock 156 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: and roll album album? Uh, Dope Throne, Dope Throne, who 157 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: Electric Wizard? Okay, alright, well let's say you particularly love 158 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: Dope Throne, and so you have a cassette of Dope Throne, 159 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: But that cassette doesn't actually play just that. But imagine this, 160 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: the mere act of that tape filtering through the machine 161 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: and revolving around that wheel somehow enacted the spirit of 162 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: that album for you. Okay, that's the kind of what's 163 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: going on. So it gives you the essence or the 164 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: aura of Dope Throne without the sounds having to play. Right, 165 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: And and ideally, I think my understanding too is that 166 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: you would also focus the mind on Dope Throne. So 167 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: it's not just saying I'm turning this machine instead of 168 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: thinking about it. I'm doing both. But but where this 169 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: gets really interesting is when you, for instance, when you 170 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: look at the fact that until the twentieth century, virtually 171 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: the only Tibetan use for the wheel was as a 172 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: device for activating these mantras, so that the wheel was 173 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: was virtually virtually went unused there as a physical, uh tool, 174 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,319 Speaker 1: as a technology for you know, moving things around or 175 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: crushing things, etcetera. It was used almost exclusively as a 176 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: religious technology. Yeah. Um, Now that's not to say that 177 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: all prayer wheels are turned by hand. That's kind of 178 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: the main one, you see, and it's certainly the one 179 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 1: that often makes the biggest impression visually, that's a money wheel, 180 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: but there are also varieties that are turned by fire, water, wind, um, electricity. 181 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: Hold on a second, So we've got an electric prayer 182 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: karma machine. Yes, yeah, And this is where it gets 183 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: really interesting because because it's one thing to say, all right, 184 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: this one is spun by hand, because also I'm the human, 185 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: I mean, the kind of at the center of this 186 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: religious thing. Right, It's another to say the fire, the wind, 187 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: or the air is going to move because those are 188 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: natural forces created by the gods. Right. Yeah, Well that 189 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: makes me think of an analogy like if you look 190 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: to medieval Catholicism, where you might have chantryes that are 191 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: where it's ay, a wealthy person, Remember, the gentry could 192 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: pay people to pray, and the more prayers that the 193 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: monks would say in these chantry is based on the 194 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: amount they paid could lessen their stay in purgatory. I 195 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: wonder if you know, if they've had this kind of 196 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: technology at the time, would they think, well, would it 197 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: be okay to say the number of prayer machines you 198 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: build could lessen your stay in purgatory? Um? Could like, 199 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: could you get one of those texts to speech synthesizers 200 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: is to say prayers. You know, I don't know. I 201 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 1: would definitely love to hear from someone uh with more 202 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: insight into the the rules of of Tibetan Buddhism and 203 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: these prayer wheels, because it would seem like you could 204 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: just buy a bunch of these things and just set 205 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: them up, plug them in, and let them go and 206 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: then maybe just completely externalize your your karma situation. Um. Yeah, 207 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: they call these thardo cor lows and that you can 208 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: keep them running twenty four hours a day using a 209 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: four point five vault DC electric current. Uh and and 210 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: and so yeah, you can just keep it running all 211 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: the time, presuming when you're sleeping, when you're eating, when 212 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: you're doing things that I assume do not involve the 213 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: mental concentration. It's like a karmic force field generator exactly. Yeah. 214 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: And this is even crazier when you think of another 215 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: technological uh uh innovation that you see with the prayer wheels, 216 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: and that's that you can also find microfilm prayer wheels. 217 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: They contain more uh came, even more than a million 218 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: mantras inside them. So yeah, so you between microfilm technology 219 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: and uh and simple electric uh, you know, technology to 220 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: create a spinning wheel. Um, you can really sort of 221 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: change your your karma game. It seems the micro film 222 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: is especially interesting to me. It seems like that's almost 223 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: like a religious implementation of the idea of nanotechnology, like 224 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: accomplishing more in a smaller space. It makes me wonder 225 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: and and perhaps someone has has done something along these lines. 226 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: But why even deal with the physical wheel. What if 227 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: you took the wheel virtually you could have I mean, 228 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: what would the limits there would be pretty much be 229 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: no limits, right, I mean, you could have an absurd 230 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: number of mantras moving through a wheel at pretty much 231 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: any kind of rate you want. Like, you could create 232 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: a computer program that executes a subroutine that is just 233 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: a list of these mantras, and you could tell it 234 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: to loop infinitely. Yeah, kind of a karmic defragging system 235 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: just running in the background out of your your computer 236 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: at all times. Yeah. And of course, so this is 237 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: kind of our outsider's perspective, But I'm sure somebody who 238 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: is actually believing in and using these sorts of prayer 239 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: wheels would have a pretty good and well thought out 240 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 1: explanation for why you can use technology to achieve a 241 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: karmically significant event in one way but not in another way. 242 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:15,719 Speaker 1: It might totally make sense in terms of how they 243 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: interpret their spirituality. Yeah, I mean, I think. I think 244 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: anytime you see this convergence of technology and religion, it 245 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: becomes the domain of of the the priest or the 246 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: priest class, or somebody in some sort of you know, 247 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: clerical authority to say, all right, this is the line, 248 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: this is this is how far technology can come into 249 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: the sanctuary. It's okay to you know, read your hymn 250 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: or your Bible on an iPad, but it's not okay 251 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: to do X, y or z. It makes me want 252 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: to ask the question why on that spectrum I talked 253 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: about earlier, where we have, you know, the ancient religion 254 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: on one hand and the new technology on the other, 255 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: Why are they so far apart? Like what is the 256 00:14:55,280 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: inherent profanity in technology? It does kind of see crass 257 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: when you see, like when you see a religious service 258 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: taking place on a JumboTron or something like that, Why 259 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: is that, Like what is wrong with the technology or 260 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: what is necessarily unspiritual about it? I don't know the answer, 261 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: but there seems to be an intuition like that that 262 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: we have. I guess so much of it is rooted 263 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: in religion tradition, you know. I mean like I've definitely 264 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: had that moment before. I've been at a church service 265 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: and the person giving the sermon or you know her 266 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: officiating at a wedding has been reading off of a 267 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: kindle or a or a you know, a path of 268 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: some good. It looks inappropriate. Yeah, I mean, I think 269 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: it's a lot of it has to do with the 270 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: fact that religions tend to be inherently traditional, especially the 271 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: older traditional religions. So just the the image of modern technology, 272 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: especially when you think of technology, is this thing that's 273 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: such a mastery, uh of you know, a human skill 274 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: and ability to see that uh you know, shoehorned in 275 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: with these things that are just supposedly giving to us 276 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: from some sort of higher power. Yeah. No, I wonder 277 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: if people in the ancient world would have thought about 278 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: it in the same way. I mean, this again calls 279 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: to mind something we talked about the last time I 280 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: was on the show, when we talked about eclipses, which 281 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: is the anti Kithera mechanism is an ancient Greek device. 282 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: It's often referred to as the world's oldest computer or 283 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: the first computer. And now obviously it didn't have microprocessors 284 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: or anything. But this was a device that comes from 285 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: more than two thousand years ago, was found in a 286 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: shipwreck in the Mediterranean, and it was an ancient mechanical 287 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: computer for for computing the locations of celestial objects and 288 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: for like predicting lunar eclipses and solar eclipses in the future. 289 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: And the interesting thing about this is it's an amazingly 290 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: advanced piece of technology for the time, just astoundingly advanced. 291 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: But these events, these celestial mechanics had religious significance to 292 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: the people who used it. Yeah, I mean, it's certainly 293 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: something we discussed in that Eclipse episode. When when you 294 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: look back at ancient societies and even not so ancient societies, 295 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: um astronomy and and cosmology are are so linked together, 296 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: like it becomes the domain of the of the priest 297 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: and the clergy to know what the stars are doing, 298 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: to track the stars, so that we know what the 299 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: calendar is telling us and when certain rights should be observed. Well, 300 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: that makes me wonder if star treking technology has entered religion. 301 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: Even ancient religion in the same way the prayer wheel did. Yes, 302 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: and that brings us to the astrolabe. The astrolabe. Yeah, 303 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: and now everyone I think has probably seen an image 304 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: of an astrolabe in their finer forms. These are just 305 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: works of just pure art. I'm going to tell you 306 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: what a picture tell me how far off I am. Basically, 307 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: it's it looks kind of like that compass you used 308 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: to use in middle school math classes to draw a 309 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: perfect circle with another little half moon piece on it. 310 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: Is that completely wrong kind of yeah, with varying levels 311 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: of artistry and a lot of figures and sliding mechanisms. Okay, yeah, 312 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: it small circular device and these would usually usually these 313 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,959 Speaker 1: would be made of wood or brass um and they 314 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: date back over two thousand years. The concept seems to 315 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: originate around three thir BC, and they were perfected by 316 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: the Arabs in the ninth century, and they remained at 317 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: the basic astronomer's tool for the next seven hundred years. 318 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: It's essentially a model of the stars in the sky 319 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: which can be moved to show where the stars will 320 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: be at any time of the year, and the reverse 321 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: side of the astrolabe concerns the position of the sun 322 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: in the moon. Okay, so it's a lot like the 323 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: end to get through a mechanism in a way. Yeah. Yeah, 324 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: it's it's portable and has a large display. On top 325 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: of that, if you have a really nice model, it's 326 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: a beautiful work of art, something you might win, easily 327 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: show it off at the dinner table. Uh. It's arguably 328 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: one of, if not the first, personal computer mobile carrying 329 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: it with you doing what you need to do in 330 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: the course of a day. Now, the question is would 331 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: it become overheated if sitting on your lap, if it 332 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: was made out of metal and you were seated in 333 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 1: the sign, I would say yes, Um, yeah, that's a 334 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: sterility hazard. It Uh. You couldn't get an app for 335 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: this thing. But it had a number of features just 336 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: by virtue of how contract the heavens. You can tell 337 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: the date and time. You could calculate distances to be 338 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: used in determine a building height, surveying longitude, latitude, altitude horoscopes. Um. 339 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: You can also figure out the position of the planets. 340 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: But then on top of this, there were various occults usages, 341 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: so it gets a little bit into religion there. But 342 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: the most notable function. Where we see the astrolaid becoming 343 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: a piece of religious technology is in its ability to 344 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: determine Islamic prayer times and determine the direction to Mecca. Okay, 345 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: so this is actually that the piece of technology itself 346 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily have religious significance. But there's a fact you 347 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: need to know to ex acute your religion. You know 348 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: perfectly the way you want to do it. If you 349 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: want to face Mecca as well as you can, why 350 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: not have a machine to help you really hone that 351 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: piece of information and get it as accurate as possible. Yeah, 352 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: I mean, in a way, it really becomes an essential 353 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: piece of technology in Islam because a long place is 354 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: a high importance on the position of the believer in 355 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: time and space. For starters, Uh, the s Alot times, 356 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: these are the five prayers a day plus the Friday prayer. 357 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: They depend It depends on a combination of clock time 358 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: and sundial time to determine exactly when they should take place. 359 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: So it concerns the exact coordinates for a given location. Um. 360 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 1: Because again it's not just it's not just arbitrary about 361 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: when the prayer times are. They have they are specific 362 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: depending on where you are in the world, where you 363 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: are in terms of sun time. And on top of this, 364 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: the faithful has to know exactly where they are in 365 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: relation to the Kaaba in Mecca so that they can 366 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: face that direction during these prayers. Yeah, I think that's fascinating. 367 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 1: And unlike the prayer wheel, which itself does some sort 368 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: of religious or spiritual work, this is sort of like 369 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: a technology that we used to be most properly informed 370 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: about how to do the rituals that you would be 371 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: doing anyway, because really a lot of the problems that 372 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: occur in religion they occur as the believer moves farther 373 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: away in in time or space. Right, Sure, you're you're 374 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 1: you're farther away from Mecca. Uh, it's harder to determine 375 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: exactly where you are. Uh. You're not necessarily going to 376 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: have somebody signaling the prayer times each day from a tower, 377 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: so it falls on you to figure it out yourself 378 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: and uh. And then that's where the technology becomes extremely useful. 379 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,959 Speaker 1: But of course, there are lots of external influences on 380 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: how we practice our religions. A lot of these influences 381 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: are actually going to be technological. One of the things 382 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: that I thought was interesting was to think about writing 383 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: itself as a technology. Now, writing is so crucial to 384 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: the way we think of most of the major religions 385 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: of the world today, because you've got the Torah for Jews, 386 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: you've got the you know, the Hebrew Bible plus the 387 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: New Testament for Christians, You've got the Kuran for Muslims, 388 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: and and of course there are texts that are central 389 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: to Eastern religions as well, the Ramayana and the Mahabata 390 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: specific certainly, Yeah, and so we think about religion as 391 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: a very text based affair. But there's really no reason 392 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: it has to be. I mean, religions can be transmitted 393 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: orally through culture, that can be systems of cultural practices 394 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: that don't necessarily have to be written down or encoded anywhere. 395 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: But for some reason, most of the world's major religions 396 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: have a strong textual component. And I wonder how it 397 00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: changed the way we practiced religion when writing came into humanity, 398 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: because writing, I mean, human civilization is much older than writing. 399 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: Of course, human life in general, human culture is even 400 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: older than civilization, so much older than writing. So we 401 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: can only really imagine I think, I mean I'm sure 402 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: that something like a cultural anthropologist or and archael just 403 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: could tell us more about how they think writing might 404 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: have changed the way we practice religions. But I really 405 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: have no idea. Well, I mean, I think at hard 406 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: you're probably dealing on the situation of of of the 407 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: expansion of memory, right, because writing is in essence, the 408 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: ability to externalize human memory. Before writing, how we that 409 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: we can only contain as much as could fit in 410 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,719 Speaker 1: a human mind, or if maybe if you were, you know, 411 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,199 Speaker 1: really skilled, that you might compartmentalize it, right and have 412 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 1: one person deal with the with these memories versus the other. 413 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: Almost a Fahrenheit four fifty one kind of situation. Yeah, 414 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 1: So before writing, it's you're limited by just the power 415 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: of the human mind, remember, and then the ability to 416 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 1: pass that on to us, which of course we know 417 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: from everyday experience but also from actual studies we we 418 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: don't pass on information all that faithfully if we don't 419 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: write it down right, memory itself is not set in stone, 420 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: And and then there's kind of a telephone game anytime 421 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: we passed something on anything. Really, anytime you remember something, 422 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: you're taking it out, you're potentially changing it. And then 423 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: putting it back in. So yeah, I have to imagine 424 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: though of course I could be wrong that, uh, that 425 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: as much as religious beliefs kind of change from generation 426 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: to generation today, I have to imagine they changed even 427 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: more and much more quickly in times before there were 428 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: sort of like texts to anchor them. Yeah, before you 429 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: could actually set a religion in stone. I imagine a 430 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: religion really just by virtue of how we remembered it. 431 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: It changed with us so very fluid. So some of 432 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: these problems we run into where we're saying, all right, 433 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: we're trying to apply ancient Babylonian cosmology to modern times. 434 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: Part of that is by virtue of depending upon and 435 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: ancient Babylonian cosmology is set in stone, and you know, 436 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: and that that recording of it is considered sacred and holy. Right, 437 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: So these ancient writing technologies, we of course had the 438 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: invention of alphabets, and I think it's very fair to 439 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 1: consider an alphabet of technology. But then on top of that, 440 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: you just had the preservation technology, So you had scrolls, 441 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: you eventually had caudessease, you had you know, tablets and 442 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: carving and all the different pictograms and libraries and and 443 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: every bit of technology we had, but there was one 444 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: big thing I think that that was the main textual 445 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: technology that really revolutionized the world, and that would be 446 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: the printing press. Yes, yeah, we're talking about the mid 447 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: fifteenth century in Europe, particularly called Gutenberg. Gutenberg, yeah, um, 448 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: and his effect on the Bible, the Gutenberg Bible because 449 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: prior to this, any given Western manuscript had to be 450 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: copied by hand, and it was generally this was something 451 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: that was handled by by the clergy. Right can you 452 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: imagine edge and this living in a world where so 453 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: you look to the church as your you know, as 454 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: your authority on all things spiritual. Uh, and probably more 455 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: than that also all things government in some cases and 456 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: and all that. But they have the Bible as the 457 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: authority that's interpreted by the church. And so what is 458 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: the Bible? Well, it is hand copied documents that most 459 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: people don't have much access to. They might be because 460 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: they're so rare. I mean they're kept in scriptory ums 461 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: or libraries or these places that the average person wouldn't 462 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: have any access to. Yeah, they're highly fetishized. Uh, it's 463 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: it's just not something that the average person would have 464 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: access to. And on top of that, the lack of 465 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: a brnning press means that there's really not much distributed 466 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: commentary on the documents either. And this is something that uh, 467 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people would say played a big role 468 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: in the Renaissance, Protestant Reformation, the Enlightenment, scientific Revolution. If 469 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,239 Speaker 1: you just look at the Protestant Reformation, shan, you have 470 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: to imagine the effect that the printing press had on 471 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: not just the Bible itself, but on the distribution of 472 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: Reformation propaganda. And I don't use the word propaganda there 473 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: in a negative sense. I think that's just the term 474 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: for all of the ways in which Reformation ideas were 475 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: being spread throughout Europe at the time. Yeah, it's really 476 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: the kind of technological advancement in mass communication that you 477 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: can you can really only compare it to, if not 478 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: the emergence of writing to begin with, and perhaps the 479 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: Internet age like the like, such a big movement and 480 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 1: such a drastic change in our ability to communicate with 481 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: one another. Speaking of the Scientific Revolution, uh, that makes 482 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: me think about the you know, the whole notion of 483 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: a clockwork universe, which I'm not going to get too 484 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: deep into that here, that could easily be its own podcast. 485 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: But everyone's heard the idea of a creator God as 486 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: a watchmaker, right, Um, this creator makes the perfect mechanical 487 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: time piece that is the universe and then just lets 488 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: it go. Maybe winds it first, I guess hopefully winds 489 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: it and then lets it go because it doesn't need 490 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: to be rewound or anything. It works perfectly as it's created. 491 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: And this isn't an example of you know, a technological society. 492 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: A society that has these technological ideas in its head 493 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: can't help but think about um, the unseen world in 494 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: terms of those same mechanisms, right. I mean, it's very 495 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: common to want to describe the actions of God in 496 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: terms that we can understand. And what do we understand 497 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: these days? And making machines change? Yeah, I haven't seen 498 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: a lot of this, but I wonder to what extent, 499 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: like modern like email or jargon, etcetera, has has made 500 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: its way into you know, just average say Christian sermons, 501 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: Like does anyone talk about um communication with God prayer 502 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: itself being a form of email. I do think a 503 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: lot of the jokes now displayed on church signs coming 504 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: from email forwards. Indeed, I believe I saw one chart 505 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: church marquis here around town a few years back with 506 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: a talked about sending God some quote an email, which 507 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: I thought when I when I read an email, I 508 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: was instantly thinking, that sounds like a great name for 509 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: some sort of a wrestling move, finishing maneuver right where 510 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: you need somebody in the head and you call it 511 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: an email. Right there, of course, talking about kneeling, uh, 512 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: and then praying, which is a form of n eemail. Uh. 513 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: That's adorable an email. But getting back to the ways 514 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: that external advances in technology have affected the progression of religions, 515 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,959 Speaker 1: one of the ways that I think is very significant 516 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: is looking at the way technology has changed the way 517 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: we do work, which of course is the main thing 518 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: technology does, and how that affects religious beliefs about how 519 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: we should do work. Oh, you're talking, of course about Shabbat, right, 520 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: of course, So if you look at the way some 521 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: Jews interpret teachings in the Torah on what should be 522 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: done or not done on the Sabbath, there have been 523 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: lots of ways in which new technologies have sort of 524 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: intruded on the traditional understanding of what is accepted and 525 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: forbidden to do on the day of rest. Right, This 526 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,479 Speaker 1: is sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, in which Orthodox use 527 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: a forbidden to work, right, which is interesting technology, right uh, 528 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: and to drive vehicle of course, right. And so of 529 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: course what you can guess from drive vehicle is that 530 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: a lot of these things aren't directly commandments stated in 531 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: the Torah itself as an ancient document, but their interpretations 532 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: that have come from the rabbis throughout the years about 533 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: how we should apply the laws of the Torah to 534 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: the new technological world we find ourselves in. Right, because 535 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: just by the basic laws and like the thirty nine 536 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: different activities that are awful limits, um, it would mean 537 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: that you can't cook or light a fire. And by 538 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: extension of that, the interpretation is that there would be 539 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: no moving electricity through a circuit. Okay. So by this interpretation, really, 540 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: if you want to be observant on the Sabbath, you 541 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: should not press a button that causes an electrical device 542 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: to turn on. Right. And that's where it gets kind 543 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: of tricky, because there's some obvious examples that you know, 544 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: you could say, well, don't turn on the vacuum cleaner. Okay, 545 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: Well I'm not gonna turn the vacuum cleaner because I'm 546 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: also not going to vacuum, but then you gotta eat 547 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: on on the on the Sabbath, right, So, so what 548 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: do you do about opening the refrigerator door? Oh, because 549 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: when you open the refrigerator door a light comes on 550 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: exactly that your action of opening the door that has 551 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: caused that light to ignite. Yeah, So I mean for 552 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: the longest there's an easy workaround. Right. You could either 553 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: unscrew the bulb or you just you tape up that 554 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: little button right, right, So those are some pretty simple 555 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: workarounds for that some Orthodox Jews might use, but it 556 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: gets more complicated than that in some scenarios. Right. For instance, 557 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: another classic workaround was involved the use of an oven, right, 558 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,479 Speaker 1: because you need to heat up food. You can't light stove. 559 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: You can't activate the oven by pushing the button. But 560 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: if you activate the oven, you turn it on before 561 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: sundown m on Friday and just leave it running through 562 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: and keep it warm, you know, through sundown on Saturday, 563 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: then you can make use of that heat. You're you're 564 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: just setting an emotion beforehand and then picking up after 565 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: the Sabbath is due. I'd imagine a lot of ovens 566 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: today are programmed not to do that because they don't 567 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: want it would be a safety hazard to just leave 568 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: an oven on and leave town or something. Yeah, so 569 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: they probably have like an automatic shut off, right they do, Yeah, 570 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: an automatic safety shut off. And when they started using these, 571 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: you know, they were getting complaints from people who who 572 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: needed to keep their oven on in order to observe 573 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: the religious practices. So this is where we get Sabbath 574 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: mode on on on various appliances, uh not where they 575 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: play Sabbath albums. Right, So that would that was certainly 576 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: an innovation that would be that would be great on 577 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: modern Welcome in my house, a black Sabbath mode on 578 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: your your dishwasher, etcetera. But no, this would involve simply 579 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: a manual override to the safety features so that you 580 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: could operate your cooking technology in accordance with your religious 581 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: of faith. You know, I bet that there are specific 582 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: manufacturers that do this. There are, and in fact, there's 583 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: actually something called star K Kosher Certification for Appliances. Yeah, 584 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: you can actually go to their their website it's star 585 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: uh dash K dot org and they have a lot 586 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: of stuff dealing with with kosher foods, what have you. 587 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: But also in a whole system, whole section on appliances 588 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: where you can look up the appliances and see what 589 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: their their their potential of Sabbath modes are, how to 590 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: activate them, how to use them in accordance with these 591 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: rules and regulations. Another classic example about the shabat and 592 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: technology is the use of an elevator. Right occasonally, you 593 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: need to use an elevator to move around in a 594 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: high rise building. How do you do it if you 595 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: can't push a button? While you just simply program the elevator, 596 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: uh during the Shabbat to go from floor to floor 597 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: to floor to floor, up and down, up and down NonStop. 598 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: And then you just get on and you just ride 599 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: the ride. Wow. Yeah, so I might be a long 600 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: ride and a long wait, but at least you can 601 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: observe your your practices exactly. Another bit of a religious 602 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: technology wanted to touch on real quick is a sixteenth 603 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: century clockwork monk created by one Ello Toryana, who was 604 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: a mechanic for Spanish Emperor Charles the Fifth. Now the 605 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: emperor's son, King Philip the Second, the story goes, was 606 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: praying at the bedside of his own dying son, and 607 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: he's getting desperate so he's making promises to the divine. 608 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: He's promising a miracle for a miracle. Uh, even his 609 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: child survives, he ends up recovering, and he has to 610 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,879 Speaker 1: keep his promise. What kind of a miracle can can 611 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: a king actually do? Well? Obviously, the king's gonna um 612 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: his mechanical constolled as a mechanic and get him to 613 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: create a miracle as a as kind of an offering 614 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 1: right as a as a as a thank you to 615 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: the divine. And so that's where one ello comes in, 616 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: and he creates a key wound spring operated automaton and 617 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: it really complicated automaton at that. Yeah, I've seen pictures 618 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: of this and it's fascinating. You can, like, I think 619 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: there's a little compartment where you can peek in on 620 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: the inside of it, and it's got gears and I 621 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: don't I couldn't begin to understand how it works on 622 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: the inside. But what does it actually do well? I 623 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: mean it it walks around, uh kind of a square shape. 624 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: It it strikes its chest with its right arm. It 625 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: raises and lowers a small cross and rosary with it's left. 626 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: It occasionally kisses the cross, It turns and nods its head, 627 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 1: it rolls its eyes, and it mouths, you know, silent 628 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: prayers and whatnot. So so what you said, it strikes 629 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: its chest. So is this is this auto automatic self flagellation. 630 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: I don't think it's quite flagellation. Okay, but that would 631 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: be a different That would be an interesting different. Yea um. 632 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: But some of you probably heard a Radio Lab episode 633 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 1: of years back where they did like a short profile 634 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: of this piece and sort of the mysteries around it, 635 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: because there are a lot of questions regarding you know, 636 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: why why was this created? What's the exact purpose? You know, 637 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: what was the mindset in creating it? Is it simply 638 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: an offering, uh, you know to God? Is it's a 639 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: Is it something you're supposed to put on the table 640 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: and you also around in prayer, pray while observing it? Right, 641 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: my question would be does it do something relevant or 642 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 1: is it more kind of like when a great painter 643 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: sculptor would create a work of art and dedicate it 644 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: to the Lord. I think that seems to be the 645 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: prevalent interpretation, though in the light of what we talked 646 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: about with the prayer wheel, it's it's tempting to want 647 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,839 Speaker 1: to go that direction with it, you know, and think 648 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 1: of it as a think that, like its prayers had 649 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: some efficacy. Yeah, I mean, I'm tempting. I really want 650 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: to believe that I can, in good uh, in good 651 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,760 Speaker 1: faith put that forward. Is is something that I think 652 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,479 Speaker 1: or that even the majority of the extorts think that 653 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,879 Speaker 1: that was in the mind of of the king or 654 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: the mechanic responsible. But you can't help but but wonder 655 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: exactly how the mindset of the mechanic played into it. 656 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: And of course, in our modern time, um, we've plenty 657 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: of examples of prayer taking place online U prayer groups, etcetera. 658 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 1: Sharing their concerns via the Internet. And I don't know 659 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: to what extent they can you know, they ever consider 660 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: the email itself a prayer. But but certainly that seems 661 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: like a line that will blur more and more as 662 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,359 Speaker 1: that becomes like standard practice, right because certainly, uh, at 663 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: some point the written word uh became holy. Right, And 664 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: then I can't help but but imagine that in the 665 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: advent of the printing press, maybe initially the printed word 666 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: was a little less holy, a little more manufactured. Sure 667 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: than that becomes uh, you know, de facto holy as well? Right, Well, 668 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: This is the other side of the advance of the 669 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: textual technology uh progression, because religion is so inherently social 670 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: and in most the way most people practice it, and 671 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: it's something that deeply does involve communication between groups, and 672 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: so allowing greater communication between people who think alike or 673 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: want to offer each other religious advice or interpretation or consolation. 674 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: The Internet is obviously going to be a huge explosion 675 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: in that. But it's also not just a peer to 676 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: peer exchange, right, So you can have your sort of 677 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 1: like your religious you know, email circle where you forward 678 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: each other the things that you know you want to 679 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: show to your friends and your peers in the church. 680 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: You can also have services provided by church officials over 681 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: telecommunications links. Indeed, and uh, you know, here's a question 682 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: that comes to mind here. If it's if it's blasphemous 683 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: to um, to burn or to face a religious text 684 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: such as the Bible or the Koran? What have you 685 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,399 Speaker 1: deleted an e book of its? Oh? Man, is that's 686 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 1: it's that blasphemous? I don't know. I don't know. I'm 687 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: sure some people have opinions on that. Yeah, I personally 688 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 1: do not. Hey, and we haven't even mentioned exorcism online, right, Well, 689 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 1: that would be one of those services that could be 690 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: offered by you know, your religious official who might be 691 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: so far away. What if they're in a cabin in 692 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,839 Speaker 1: Alaska that hopefully has a fast Internet connection, but they 693 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: want to offer the spiritual service that you really need, 694 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: and that might be the exorcism of a demon or 695 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: multiple demons from your person. Right. And there are individuals 696 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: who have and continue to offer online exorcism services. Back 697 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,879 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, famed Israelian Kabbala master Rabbi bot 698 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 1: three attempted to remove a dibbck, a disembodied spirit from 699 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: a Brazilian man via the Internet. And more recently we've 700 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: seen evangelical Reverend Bob Larson offering exorcisms for a fee, 701 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: of course, via Skype. And this, uh, this was actually 702 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 1: featured on The Daily Show several months back. Really, yes, 703 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,280 Speaker 1: so I imagine I didn't see that. Imagine a number 704 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: of our listeners caught it there. Yeah, that's sounds way 705 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: more interesting than the video conferencing that we have here 706 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: at work. Yeah, but you know, ultimately, what's I don't 707 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: see what the big big deal is because if if 708 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 1: an exorcism involves like this, right, by which you're driving 709 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: a spiritual invader out. That's essentially that the demon is 710 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: kind of telecommuting through an individual, right, yeah, yeah, that 711 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: makes sense. I mean it seems to me that the 712 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: ideology behind an exorcism would suggest that it's a it's 713 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: an interpersonal connection that breaks the power of the demon. 714 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: It's sort of the spiritual or emotional or intellectual presence 715 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: of the clerical official that can drive the demon out, 716 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: not so much the physical presence, like why would they 717 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: really need to be in the room. Yeah, I mean 718 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 1: it reminds me. I think we've both recently rewatched portions 719 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: are the entirety of the The Hell Razor Bloodlines movie 720 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: where and of course you know religious technology, right, the 721 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 1: limit configuration is a little mechanical device and you solve it, 722 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 1: and the demon show up, the cinebyte show up and 723 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: in that movie as an individual that's cheating right by 724 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: trying by solving it virtually or remotely by use of 725 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: a robot. Right, yes, he's he's using essentially the technology 726 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: of a bomb disposal robot, but to solve the lament 727 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: configuration puzzle box and workroom. Initially it works, but then 728 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,320 Speaker 1: some some people who are not very technologically savvy or like, well, 729 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,800 Speaker 1: we gotta solve this problem. They open the door to 730 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: the room where the cinobytes are contained, and then there's 731 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: a big problem. But that's interesting. Initially they're able to 732 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:35,400 Speaker 1: out maneuver the technologically empowered demons that are the cinabytes 733 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: via more advanced technology. Right, they can put those cinobytes 734 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: in a box inside a box, exactly inside a box, 735 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 1: all right. So that's going to be the end of 736 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,240 Speaker 1: part one here. This is very much again a two 737 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,879 Speaker 1: part series. Yeah, and if you want to hear the 738 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,879 Speaker 1: conclusion of that story that we started this episode with 739 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: the construction of the electro mechanical Messiah at the High 740 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: Rock Tower in Lynn, Massachusetts, that's gonna be in our 741 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 1: next episode. So that's going to be in part two. Indeed, 742 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: we're also gonna get into some some wonderful UFO and 743 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: scientology territory as well. So hey, if you're if you're 744 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: listening to this episode as it comes out, just wait 745 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:16,839 Speaker 1: a couple of days and you know, get the second part. 746 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,280 Speaker 1: If you're catching up on this at a later point, 747 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: I will make sure that there is a link to 748 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: the second episode on the landing page for this episode 749 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: at stuff to blow your Mind dot com. That's the mothership. 750 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: That's where we'll find all the episodes, all the videos, 751 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: all the blog posts, plus links out to our social 752 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 1: media accounts such as Facebook and Twitter. And if you 753 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,799 Speaker 1: want to let us know about any interesting thoughts you 754 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: have or stories you've ever experienced about the intersection of 755 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 1: religion and technology, or even the complete synthesis and marriage 756 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 1: of religion and technology, email us at blow the Mind 757 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: at how stuffworks dot com for more on this and 758 00:42:54,640 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com? 759 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:01,680 Speaker 1: Could you be you Plier