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Speaker 1: Screwworms have invaded beyond the Panama Canal. Will they infect

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Speaker 1: Texas cows grazing amongst the chaparral?

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Speaker 2: How would life evolve without a moon? Would we have people?

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Speaker 2: Cats and funky mushrooms?

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Speaker 1: How long is the wait until synthetic blood goes on sale?

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Speaker 1: I promise I'm not a vampire. I'm just a little pale.

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Speaker 2: Whatever question keeps you up at night, Daniel and Kelly's

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Speaker 2: answer will make it all right.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another Listener Questions episode on Daniel and Kelly's

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Speaker 1: Extraordinary Universe.

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Speaker 2: Hi. I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I'm not

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Speaker 2: a vegetarian, but I don't like to eat blood.

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Speaker 3: Hello, I'm Kelly Waiter Smith.

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Speaker 1: I study Paris and space and I also am not

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Speaker 1: a big fan of eating blood. What are those blood

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Speaker 1: sausages or whatever that are popular in the UK? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't do that, or at least I've never tried.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'd like it, but I can't get myself to

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Speaker 1: try it.

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Speaker 2: There's some line for me between like normal muscle and

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Speaker 2: like the rest of the body and the blood and

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Speaker 2: the brain and the guts and stuff. It just creeps me.

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Speaker 2: Out though. Katrina has a friend who's big into cooking organs,

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Speaker 2: and she has a website. I think it's called Awful

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Speaker 2: Recipes o ffal.

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Speaker 1: You know, I feel like it's actually a deficit of

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Speaker 1: my character that I'm not into eating more of the animal,

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Speaker 1: because I do feel like, yeah, that if you're going

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Speaker 1: to take another animal's life, you really should make the

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Speaker 1: most of it.

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Speaker 3: But I just really have problems with the texture and stuff.

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Speaker 1: So my solution has been to try to cut down

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Speaker 1: on meat as much as I can.

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Speaker 2: No, I totally agree it feels weird to just throw

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Speaker 2: away parts of an animal because you're like, oh, ichy,

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Speaker 2: and when really the whole thing is kind of ikey

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Speaker 2: if you think about it too much, which we all should.

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Speaker 2: We all all should be thinking about it too much

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Speaker 2: and feeling okay about our choices.

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Speaker 3: That's right, Yes, we should think through our choices.

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Speaker 1: It's so easy to be separated from the food that

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Speaker 1: you eat and not think through the implications of what's

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Speaker 1: happening there.

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Speaker 2: But nobody's gonna have an appetite after this episode anyway, right, Kelly,

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Speaker 2: I'm here to help.

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Speaker 1: All right, So let's jump right into question number one

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Speaker 1: from John, this is a topic I've been wanted an

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Speaker 1: excuse to dig into for a while, and so let's

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Speaker 1: hear what disgusting thing John wanted to know about. Well, friends,

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Speaker 1: At this point in the episode, we thought we were

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Speaker 1: going to drop an audio file where our friend John

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Speaker 1: reads his questions. But sometimes an audience member will send

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Speaker 1: a question and then they disappear. Maybe they've moved away,

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Speaker 1: maybe they're busy, hopefully they're well. We never got the

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Speaker 1: audio file, so I'm going to go ahead and read

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Speaker 1: the question from John. Here we go, Please do a

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Speaker 1: segment on the current situation at the South border concern

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Speaker 1: cattle and the re emergence of the parasitic fly and

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Speaker 1: their maggot offspring known as screwworms. Is the current embargo

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Speaker 1: something worth worrying about? Will it spread across the border regardless.

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Speaker 3: Of what we do?

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Speaker 1: Are there any human diseases related to the parasite after

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Speaker 1: eliminating them back fifty sixty years ago? How did it

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Speaker 1: become a problem again? Catching us by surprise?

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Speaker 3: Thanks? Oh man, Daniel, all right, nobody.

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Speaker 2: Why were you so excited to get this question?

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Speaker 3: Kelly?

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Speaker 1: Well, because I had been hearing about screwworms for a while,

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Speaker 1: but had never really dug in, and so they were

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Speaker 1: on sort of like the periphery of my consciousness. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh great, now there's a new parasite

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Speaker 1: that I have an excuse to learn about. But I

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Speaker 1: what is a really good word for? Like I'm begging,

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Speaker 1: I beseech you. I beseech you do not look up

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Speaker 1: pictures of screwworm or like what screwworm does to people,

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Speaker 1: because the photos have to Oh god, it's really horrible.

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Speaker 1: And if you do, we will go ahead and record

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Speaker 1: some video so that we can put your reaction up

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Speaker 1: on Blue Sky and our Instagram accounts because it's really horrifying.

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Speaker 1: So so let me go into the life cycle before

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Speaker 1: we do anything else.

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Speaker 2: Okay, tell us what is this thing? Basically, because I

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Speaker 2: know just because it's called a screw worm doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: it's a worm.

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Speaker 3: It's not a worm.

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Speaker 2: It's called the screw worm, doesn't mean it screws anything.

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Speaker 2: So what is it? And how does it live?

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Speaker 1: It is not a worm, but it does screw, So

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Speaker 1: it is this we're talking about the new World screw worm.

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Speaker 1: There is another species in the quote unquote old world.

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Speaker 1: And so the deal here is it's a fly. Mom

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Speaker 1: lays her eggs around the edges of wounds or on

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Speaker 1: mucous membrane, so like around your eyes or in your

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Speaker 1: mouth and stuff. I know, I know, bad start bad start.

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Speaker 1: The eggs hatch and the larva like the baby's hatch

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Speaker 1: out of the eggs, and then they start screwing into

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Speaker 1: the flesh to get into the flesh to eat it.

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Speaker 1: And that's why they're called screw worms. I guess they

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Speaker 1: sort of screw in the way a screw screws into wood.

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Speaker 2: Why did they screw? I mean, they can't just like

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Speaker 2: chew their way in like any normal parasite.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I guess they're doing both.

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Speaker 1: But also a lot of parasites aren't like chewing their

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Speaker 1: way through flesh. So for example, you know, hookworms have

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Speaker 1: like hooked mouths and they sort of bite down, but

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Speaker 1: they're not like kind of chewing their way through and

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Speaker 1: migrating through the flesh, whereas screw worms are migrating through

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Speaker 1: the flesh, which is really truly horrible.

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Speaker 2: Why are they migrating through? Like where did they want

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Speaker 2: to go? I happen to be between them and their destination.

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Speaker 1: Well, no, they've consumed the flesh, they're done with it.

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Speaker 1: They want more flesh, and so they're screwing in to

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Speaker 1: get more of it. And so, you know, we talked

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Speaker 1: in a previous episode about maggots that specifically ate dead tissue,

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Speaker 1: and so they were useful for cleaning out wounds. But

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Speaker 1: these flies are specifically eating the live tissue. Wow, and

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Speaker 1: they are not pleasant. So they screw in, they eat.

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Speaker 1: When they're done eating, they fall out and off the

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Speaker 1: host onto the ground.

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Speaker 4: All right.

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Speaker 3: They do a stage called pew.

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Speaker 1: Painting, and then when they hatch, they emerge as adults

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Speaker 1: who go off in search of more flesh to lay

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Speaker 1: their eggs on.

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Speaker 2: How come nobody call these like zombie flies or something?

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Speaker 3: So we usually reserve the word zombie.

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Speaker 1: For instances where a host behavior is being sort of

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Speaker 1: like manipulated in a way that benefits the parasite at

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Speaker 1: the expense of the host.

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Speaker 2: I love this. They're like semi official rules in biology

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Speaker 2: for what you can call a zombie.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, no, there's a lot of fighting over this.

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Speaker 1: There are people who feel like you shouldn't be using

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Speaker 1: the phrase zombie at all because you're just going to

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Speaker 1: confuse the public. They're not coming back from the dead.

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Speaker 1: I feel like the public gets that, like you need

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Speaker 1: to give them a little bit more credit.

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Speaker 2: But are there similar rules for like werewolf or mummy.

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Speaker 3: I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: No, no, all right, so it's a free for folks.

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Speaker 2: If you discover something, feel free to call it a

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Speaker 2: where way.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, there are there are a fit mum,

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Speaker 1: and so they essentially shells of their former self because

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Speaker 1: parasites have like eaten their insides and stuff, and they're

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Speaker 1: like pale relative to the others. I don't know too

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Speaker 1: much about aphan mummies anyway, So to get back on track,

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Speaker 1: I ended up watching a video lecture that veterinarians are

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Speaker 1: supposed to watch to get like, you know, credit for

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Speaker 1: their requirements for their field about screwworms, and they were like,

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Speaker 1: sometimes it'll just be like a pinprick hole in an animal,

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Speaker 1: because like you know, dogs and stuff can get this too,

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Speaker 1: and you just have to feel the hole and you

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Speaker 1: feel the worms moving around inside. So it's not even

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Speaker 1: that it's like a big anyway, super gross.

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Speaker 2: So you can be walking around with like a sack

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Speaker 2: of these worms inside you.

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Speaker 1: You would know, But yes, the answer is yes. So

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Speaker 1: females lay something like two hundred to three hundred eggs

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Speaker 1: at a time, and they can lay two to four

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Speaker 1: batches in their lifetime, so you can pretty quickly once

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Speaker 1: you have an open wound, it attracts.

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Speaker 3: More screwflies or more screw worms.

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Speaker 1: So if you're in an area where there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of screwworms, you can pretty quickly build up a life

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Speaker 1: threatening illness because they're just eating so much of you.

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Speaker 1: Or you can get secondary infections because now you have

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Speaker 1: this growing wounds that can you know, acquire bacteria and

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Speaker 1: you die that way.

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Speaker 3: So it's truly awful.

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Speaker 2: And what do they usually eat? Is it mostly people

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Speaker 2: or is it dogs? Are they totally indiscriminate.

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Speaker 1: Anything they can really get their hands on, So quite

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Speaker 1: often they're going after livestock or they can go after wildlife.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you find it in pets and occasionally you will

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Speaker 1: find it in people.

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Speaker 2: And do they have the same preference for flesh as

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Speaker 2: Kelly does, like do they prefer the muscle or they

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Speaker 2: eat you know, organs and eyeballs and any sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: So I don't preferentially eat wounds on animals and they

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Speaker 1: have a tendency also to go form mucus membranes and

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Speaker 1: like genitalia stuff like that, and so I would say

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Speaker 1: they do not have similar preferences to Kelly.

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Speaker 2: I'm not trying to put you together in a category.

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Speaker 2: It's just using you as an example.

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling a little insulted, but I'm gonna I really

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Speaker 1: like parasites enough that I'm going to rise above and

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Speaker 1: decide that to compliment. But so this used to be

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Speaker 1: in the United States. It was a huge problem. Like

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Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty five, one hundred and eighty thousand cattle

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Speaker 1: died in Texas alone from this parasite. So you typically

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Speaker 1: find it in South and Central America, and it was

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Speaker 1: in North America for a while. Tended to be in

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Speaker 1: the Southern States because that stage that lives off of

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Speaker 1: the animals is cold sensitive, so if it freezes, that

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Speaker 1: kills them, but they can come back during the summer,

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Speaker 1: so you can still get them pretty far north, just

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Speaker 1: depending on where they've managed to travel. But this was

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Speaker 1: such a big problem for agriculture that the United States said,

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Speaker 1: all right, we absolutely need to do something about this.

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Speaker 1: And so what they did was they developed in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty eight, what's still called the sterile insect technique.

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Speaker 3: And this is something I think you might enjoy.

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Speaker 1: So essentially, they they get the flies, they can well

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Speaker 1: wait for it, wait for it.

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Speaker 2: I love hearing about sterility as a rule.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, oh yeah, well I know that's a thing

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Speaker 3: for you. I don't know you started this path. I

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Speaker 3: just took the next step.

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Speaker 2: Well, what is a sterile insect technique?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So they take a stage of the flies and

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Speaker 1: they expose them to radiation, and in particular, they're exposing

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Speaker 1: them to low doses of cobalt and this essentially sterilizes

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Speaker 1: the male flies and then they release loads of male

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Speaker 1: flies out there. And the thing that you need to

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Speaker 1: know about screwworms is that the females only mate once

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Speaker 1: in their life, even though they're laying multiple clutches of eggs.

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Speaker 1: So if a female mates with one of these irradiated males,

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Speaker 1: the eggs that she lays will not hatch. And so

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Speaker 1: by doing this, you essentially are like pulling females out

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Speaker 1: of the population, like they still exist, but they're not

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Speaker 1: making any viable eggs. And so every generation you put

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Speaker 1: more sterile males out there, and over time you can

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Speaker 1: drop the population down to zero using.

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Speaker 2: This method, down to zero, really.

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Speaker 3: Down to zero.

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Speaker 1: So actually we started doing this in nineteen fifty eight,

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Speaker 1: and by nineteen sixty six the United States was free

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Speaker 1: of New World screwworm?

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Speaker 2: How do you get down to zero? I understand that

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Speaker 2: you can suppress the population because you have some males

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Speaker 2: that are sterile, But as long as you have any

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Speaker 2: males that are not sterile, won't you keep getting some

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Speaker 2: more screw worms.

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Speaker 1: They do this generation after generation after generation, and they

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Speaker 1: swamp the population with these sterile males. And so they're

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Speaker 1: literally like loading up airplanes and dropping airplanes full of

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Speaker 1: no no, no, no, This is how they distribute the

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Speaker 1: screw worms. They drop airplanes full of these sterile insects.

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Speaker 2: If anything is going to inspire conspiracy theories about the government,

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Speaker 2: then like dropping airplane loads of intentionally irradiated flies on

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Speaker 2: the population.

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Speaker 3: Wow, flesh eating flies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, eating irradiated flies. Oh my gosh. All right,

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Speaker 2: but it's good for you, folks, really, it's in your interest.

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Speaker 3: Trust us, trust the scientists.

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Speaker 2: So all right, so they did this and it worked amazingly.

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Speaker 2: Ya science M M.

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Speaker 1: But the problem was that screwworm was still present in Mexico,

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Speaker 1: and so it kept getting across the southern border, and

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Speaker 1: so this problem didn't go away. So we decided, okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what, We're going to eradicate screw worm from

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Speaker 1: Mexico as well. Yeah, and so they started, with the

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Speaker 1: Mexican government's permission. This was a collaboration. They started dropping

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Speaker 1: plane folds of sterile screw worms over Mexico and by

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, Mexico was free of screwworm. Yay, which

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Speaker 1: is amazing. And so they ended up marching screw worm

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Speaker 1: back farther and farther and farther until screwworm was only

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Speaker 1: found on the southern side of the Panama Canal.

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Speaker 2: This seems like such good news. It must be ironic

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Speaker 2: foreshadowing for some terrible twist you're about to drop on us.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is no this is good news, full stop.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: There were like decades where we were completely without screw worms.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing, like go science. And so Panama has this

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Speaker 1: facil where they're constantly making these sterile insect males and

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Speaker 1: they're constantly dropping them in the Panama Canal region to

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Speaker 1: try to make sure that screw worm doesn't make its

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Speaker 1: way back up again, because it's still present south of

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Speaker 1: the Panama Canal.

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Speaker 2: Why don't the South American governments do this as well

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Speaker 2: so we can eradicate this guy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's too expensive or what. But

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Speaker 1: the countries that did eradicate it had American help and

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Speaker 1: collaboration to sort of scale up to keep this going.

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Speaker 1: But it's kind of amazing that it hasn't gotten past

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Speaker 1: because we move a lot of animals around, you know,

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Speaker 1: and so like in two thousand, a gelding, which is

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Speaker 1: like a kind of horse but I don't know much

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Speaker 1: about horses because I hate horses, was imported.

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Speaker 2: Well, technically, it's a sterilized male horse.

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Speaker 3: Okay, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Sterilized surgically oh ye, not.

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Speaker 1: With radiation, not with cobalt. Oh no, snip snip okay,

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Speaker 1: got it.

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Speaker 3: Got it.

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Speaker 1: So a snip snipped mail horse was brought to Florida

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Speaker 1: from South America, and as it was coming across the border,

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Speaker 1: it was discovered that it had screw and it went

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Speaker 1: into quarantine, got treated, and so it didn't spread yay.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand and seven, a dog from Trinidad was

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Speaker 1: sent to Florida and it had screwworm larva you know,

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Speaker 1: snacking behind its eyes.

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Speaker 3: Oh god, I know, I know.

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Speaker 1: And the dog made it to Mississippi and so it

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Speaker 1: could have been spreading it, but a veterinarian in Mississippi

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Speaker 1: found them, reported it. It was controlled, it got treated,

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Speaker 1: the dog lived, It didn't spread.

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Speaker 2: Amazing, but it feels like fingers in the dike.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it does, right. So in twenty sixteen, there

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Speaker 1: was an outbreak in the Florida Keys. We don't know

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Speaker 1: how screw worm made it to the Florida Keys, but

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Speaker 1: it got there and it ended up in the key

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Speaker 1: deer population, which is an endangered subspecies of white tailed

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Speaker 1: deer that you find in that area, and one hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty five of them died. That was about ten

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Speaker 1: percent of the population. It also infected dogs, pet pigs, cats,

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Speaker 1: in a raccoon.

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Speaker 3: I know, super sad.

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Speaker 1: But we put sterile males out and we were able

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Speaker 1: to get it under control again. So using that steril

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Speaker 1: insect technique, we wiped it back out again. But this

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Speaker 1: current outbreak, as I understand. It is the most concerning

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Speaker 1: outbreak that's happened so far. So screwworm has managed to

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Speaker 1: jump above the Panama Canal. I don't think we know

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Speaker 1: how it happened, and it has been sort of creeping

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Speaker 1: its way back up, heading into Mexico and getting close

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Speaker 1: to the border. So Zach was just in Texas visiting

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Speaker 1: his family and he said that they they were like

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Speaker 1: commercials about you know, watch out for screwworm. Check your animals,

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Speaker 1: keep an eye out, because we really want to make

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Speaker 1: sure this thing doesn't establish here.

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Speaker 2: Check your eyeballs, Check your eyeballs.

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Speaker 3: Oh gross.

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Speaker 1: So it's been estimated that if it takes hold in

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Speaker 1: the US, it could cost over one and a quarter

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Speaker 1: billion dollars to eradicate it from the US if we

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Speaker 1: had to deal with this again. It was recently announced

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Speaker 1: that eight and a half million dollars is going to

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Speaker 1: go to building another facility to raise sterile mail insects

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Speaker 1: in Texas and then they're going to work with the

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Speaker 1: Panama facility to try to wipe screw worm out between

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Speaker 1: Panama and the US and the areas where it's taken hold.

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Speaker 1: So they are putting a lot of energy and money

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Speaker 1: into trying to tackle this because it would be a

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Speaker 1: big deal if it got across the border.

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Speaker 2: I really hope they tackle it before it gets to

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Speaker 2: my house.

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, Well, you know, they probably don't want to

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Speaker 1: go to California anyway, because it's like kind of a

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Speaker 1: boring place.

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Speaker 3: I'm more worried about Virginia.

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Speaker 2: But they don't like mountains, they don't like oceans, they

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Speaker 2: don't like beautiful weather. You're right, they should head to Virginia.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, We've got much better wildlife here, and I'm

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Speaker 1: sure the wildlife is delicious, and so, you know, come

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Speaker 1: to Virginia.

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Speaker 3: This got weird.

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Speaker 1: So well, Virginia will change our motto from a Virginia

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Speaker 1: is for lovers to Virginia is for screw worms. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: so John wanted to know, should we worry about this problem?

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Speaker 2: I'm already worrying. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the answer is yes we should worry, and people

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Speaker 1: are worrying and taking what seems to be appropriate measures

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Speaker 1: to me, And are there any human disease is related

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Speaker 1: to this parasite? I wasn't able to find any. So

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Speaker 1: the parasite can infect and live in people, and that's horrible.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think it spreads any diseases as far

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Speaker 1: as I was able to tell. And how did it

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Speaker 1: manage to catch us by surprise? I would say it

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Speaker 1: didn't catch us by surprise. Monitoring for this is pretty widespread,

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Speaker 1: and we've been constantly sort of working to keep this

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Speaker 1: below the southern border.

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Speaker 3: To be honest, I am amazed and.

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Speaker 1: Very proud of our efforts that it hasn't gotten above

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Speaker 1: Panama more often like this. It's incredible that we've been

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Speaker 1: able to control it to the extent that we have. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, something just managed to move across the border

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Speaker 1: that was infected by screwworm and we're on it again.

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Speaker 1: This is probably unless we completely remove screwworm from the

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Speaker 1: face of the planet, this is something we're just always

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Speaker 1: going to have to deal with happening from time to time,

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Speaker 1: would be my guess.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me take the other side of this. Let

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Speaker 2: me be the screw worm advocate. You know, many things

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Speaker 2: are unpleasant or heat or gross, but then it turns

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Speaker 2: out they serve some positive function in the ecosystem. If

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Speaker 2: we remove screwworm from the Earth, we just like delete

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Speaker 2: all of them. Is there some beautiful critter that like

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Speaker 2: eats screw worms. It's no longer going to be around.

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Speaker 1: No, no, So I don't actually know the answer, But

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Speaker 1: what I can tell you is that for decades we

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Speaker 1: have managed to eradicate screwworm from North America and most

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Speaker 1: of Central America, and we haven't seen ecosystems collapse or

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Speaker 1: something like that, you know. So it's possible that there

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Speaker 1: is that birds really liked eating screw worms and they

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Speaker 1: have a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Less food to eat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think this is one of those things

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Speaker 1: where as a pro human individual, I think that any

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Speaker 1: ecosystem costs would be worth it because otherwise that you know,

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Speaker 1: the costs for our livestock and our pets and for

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Speaker 1: you know, endangered species like the key deer, it would

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Speaker 1: be better to not have it around.

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Speaker 2: And then Kelly wouldn't have to think about gross pictures

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Speaker 2: online as she eats her hamburger.

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Speaker 1: My god, it was a horrible photo of like the

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Speaker 1: head of a key dear that I won't I'll stop,

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Speaker 1: So John, thank you for this fascinating question and go science. Okay,

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Speaker 1: next up, we have a question from Robert from Richmond.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Robert for reaching out to me

403
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Speaker 2: to ask this question. And remember to everybody out there,

404
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 2: if you have a question about the way the universe works,

405
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 2: something you want to understand, and you'd like Daniel and

406
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 2: Kelly to break it down for you, please just write

407
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,120
Speaker 2: to us to questions at Danielankelly dot org. Don't ask

408
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 2: chat GPT, don't read some nonsense online. Reach out to us.

409
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 2: We really will set you right, all right. Here's Robert

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Speaker 2: from Richmond.

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Speaker 5: This is Robert from Richmond, Virginia. I was wondering how

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Speaker 5: life on Earth would have evolved differently, if at all,

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Speaker 5: if we didn't have the moon, so we wouldn't have

414
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Speaker 5: tied to mix the primordial soup, we wouldn't necessarily have

415
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Speaker 5: as much of a tilted axis. Even nocturnal predators wouldn't

416
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Speaker 5: have the light of the moon at night to hunt.

417
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Speaker 5: The moon has been there for so long that it's

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Speaker 5: kind of interesting to see how it would be different

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Speaker 5: without it. But also, there are so many planets that

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Speaker 5: have more than one moon. We're kind of unique in

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Speaker 5: that way. How would life evolve differently with more moons?

422
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Speaker 5: I know there's a lot too unpacked there. I appreciate

423
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Speaker 5: all the hard work. Keep it up look forward to

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Speaker 5: hearing from you guys.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is a great question which is exactly what

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Speaker 3: I would expect for a fellow citizen of Virginia, which.

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Speaker 2: Is what a Virginian is this a Mitmonian.

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Speaker 1: Rich Mendian, Virginian. Richard is a Virginian, a fellow Virginia.

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Speaker 2: And Richard is doing something which I do all the time,

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Speaker 2: in which I love seeing in people, which is thinking

431
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Speaker 2: about how the universe could be different? Why is it

432
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Speaker 2: this way? And that's like one of the big questions

433
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Speaker 2: of science, that's why we do science to understand is

434
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,159
Speaker 2: the way our universe works? An accident, is it happened

435
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 2: for a reason? Of those reasons important? Do they determine

436
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 2: why we're here? All these things help un rapper like

437
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,199
Speaker 2: the context of our lives. So yeah, awesome, Robert, thank

438
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 2: you for thinking big. Or maybe Robert's just writing a

439
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 2: science fiction novel and need some.

440
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 3: Help and we're happy to do that too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no problem, no problem. Yeah, So this question has

442
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 2: a lot of angles. You could think about whether life

443
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 2: would have evolved if Earth never had a moon, or

444
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 2: you could think about what would happen if we lost

445
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 2: our moon. So I started with that one because it's

446
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 2: sort of like a fun science fiction scenario, like, Hey,

447
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: we have a moon, are we going to have it forever?

448
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 2: Is it possible we could lose our moon? And the

449
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 2: answer to that is yes. You know, people think about

450
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,199
Speaker 2: the Solar System as sort of static and this slow

451
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 2: moving parade of planets around the Sun that's been happening forever,

452
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 2: But that's not true. The Solar System is kind of chaotic.

453
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 2: It's just on longer time scales than we mostly think about.

454
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 2: You know, the order of the planets we have today

455
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 2: is not the same order the planets we've had forever.

456
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,880
Speaker 2: Planets have migrated in and then migrated out. There are

457
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 2: theories that we had another gas giant that when Jupiter

458
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 2: and Saturn migrated to the inner Solar System and then

459
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 2: back out, one of these was tossed into outer space.

460
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 2: So there might be like a lost sibling planet out there.

461
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: I like to imagine the noise it made as it

462
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:39,719
Speaker 1: got flung out into space.

463
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 2: Why mean exactly? And maybe that planet had like the

464
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 2: best climate in the whole Solar System. Maybe the Solar

465
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,479
Speaker 2: System lost its California in that interaction, And I'll never know.

466
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 2: That's fine, and so in a similar way, we could

467
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 2: lose our moon. You know, something could like hit the

468
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 2: Moon and deflect it and knock it out of orbit.

469
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 2: In fact, right now, scientists are tracking a new interstellar comet.

470
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 2: This is a piece of the universe that comes from

471
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 2: another star, like a big chunk of rock and ice

472
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 2: thrown out of another solar system that's passing through hours

473
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 2: and we don't think it's going to hit the Earth

474
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 2: or that close, but it's moving really really fast. And

475
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 2: if it did hit the Earth, wow, that would be devastating.

476
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 2: And if it hit the Moon, it could certainly knock

477
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 2: it out of orbit.

478
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 3: You know.

479
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 1: I remember when I heard that. My first thought was, oh,

480
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: all right, hitting the Moon. That would be like a

481
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 1: bummer for a lot of reasons, but that would be better.

482
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, wait a minute, maybe that wouldn't

483
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: be better, or it would be better, but like not

484
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: much better.

485
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. In fact, there's a great science fiction novel called

486
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 2: Seven Eves which starts out with some aliens basically destroying

487
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: our moon. It's never really explained how it happens, but

488
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: most of the book has to do with trying to

489
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 2: survive the destruction of the moon because if it turns

490
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 2: into rubble and then starts falling into Earth, filling the

491
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 2: atmosphere with this stuff, and you basically have a nuclear

492
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 2: holocaust on Earth. It's end of days kind of stuff.

493
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 2: So we don't want our moon to be obliterated into dust,

494
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 2: but it could also just be knocked out of our orbit.

495
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 2: We could just lose it and go wandering into the

496
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 2: Solar System. And so that lets us think about, like, well,

497
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 2: what would life be like on Earth if we didn't

498
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,959
Speaker 2: explode the Moon, if it just sort of like drifted

499
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 2: away somehow. Well, the Moon plays a big role in

500
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: biological experience, right, Like we know, for example, that the

501
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: Moon causes tides right high tide and low tide. This

502
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: is because of gravitational tidal forces. That's why they're called

503
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 2: tidal forces. And the physics here is really fun and

504
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 2: it sounds complicated because it's gravity and all that stuff,

505
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 2: but it's pretty basic. You know, one side of the

506
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: Earth is closer to the Moon than the other side

507
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: of the Earth, and so the Moon's gravity pulls on

508
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 2: the Earth harder on the closer side than the further side,

509
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 2: So it turns to Earth into something like a football

510
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 2: instead of a sphere. It's like squeezing the earth, and

511
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 2: the water on the Earth is the squishiest bit, and

512
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 2: so it responds the most. Most people don't realize though,

513
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: that all of the Earth gets squeezed. They are these

514
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 2: things called land tides that move the distance of the

515
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 2: surface of the Earth relative to the center by meters. Yes,

516
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: as the Moon goes around the Earth, it squeezes and

517
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: massages the Earth changes its shape, not just the water,

518
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 2: but the land also changes its shape.

519
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 3: Lies. That's amazing.

520
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 2: Yes, these are lies propagated by flies that the government

521
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 2: drops over California, infected with conspiracy theories.

522
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 3: Why you could dropping worse things?

523
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: Probably, Yes, most people know about the moon's effect on

524
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 2: water tides, but not so much about the moon's effect

525
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 2: on the earth. Right. And also, the Sun gives us tides, right, Like,

526
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: the Sun is much further away, but it's also much

527
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 2: more massive, So if you got rid of the Moon,

528
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: we would still have tides. Right. Tides are combination of

529
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: the Sun's tides and the Moon's tides, which is one

530
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 2: reason why tides are complicated. Like if you look at

531
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 2: a tidal chart, it's never like it goes up, it

532
00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 2: goes down. It goes up, it goes down. It's a

533
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 2: simple sid It's complicated. It goes up, it goes down,

534
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 2: it comes up less, it goes down more. It's really complicated.

535
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 2: And that's due to the Sun and the moon and

536
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: the shape of the inlets and stuff. Tides are really complicated.

537
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 2: Isaac Newton started working on them hundreds of years ago,

538
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: and it wasn't until like one hundred years ago or

539
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: so that we had a pretty solid understanding of the

540
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: physics there.

541
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: Tides made my PhD super confusing because I had, you know,

542
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: I had to go out and collect snails when the

543
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: tide was low, and I would always think like, oh,

544
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: I remember when the tide was the other day. I'm

545
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: going to extrapolate forward, and you know it was not

546
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: as predictable as I wanted it to be.

547
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, they're complicated, and people think that this

548
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: complexity might have really been important for the development of life.

549
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: Like number one, If you got rid of the tides,

550
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 2: a lot of life by the seashore would be very confused,

551
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: and a lot of assumptions they make and things they

552
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 2: rely on would be thrown into chaos. So the conditions

553
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: for life on Earth would be drastically different, and some

554
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 2: things would live and some things would not live. But

555
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: also historically will imagine that tides played a role in

556
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: the evolution of life, that when you're on the border

557
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: between fresh water and saltwater, you have these brackish water

558
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 2: systems and there's a lot of like mixing up that happens,

559
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 2: and you can imagine like water sloshing up into these

560
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: tide pools and mixing this bit of biochemistry. But that

561
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 2: bit of biochemistry, and maybe that's even plays a role

562
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: in abiogenesis. A lot of this is very speculative, right, like, hmm,

563
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 2: maybe this and this seems like a compelling story. None

564
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 2: of it is the kind of science where we can like,

565
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 2: let's do the experiment. Let's have an earth without a

566
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,959
Speaker 2: moon and an Earth with moons, and let's see if

567
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: life starts more often. It's just sort of more like

568
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 2: a reasonable sounding story, And that doesn't make it like

569
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 2: non scientific. It just means, hey, this is the most

570
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,479
Speaker 2: we can do right now, sort of think about it

571
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: clearly and try to imagine. So we don't know the

572
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 2: answer to like could life have evolved without a moon?

573
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 2: Would life evolve differently without a moon? But there are

574
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: strong arguments to make that it's certainly possible.

575
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: So estuaries are ecosystems where fresh water it's salt water.

576
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: If you didn't have the moon, would estuaries narrow, Yeah.

577
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: There'd be a narrower band there, right, because it'd be

578
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: less mixing, right, because the moon brings the salt water

579
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 2: up further into the fresh water.

580
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: Absolutely, estuaries play an important role for ecological services, and

581
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: they're economically important because they end up being places where

582
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 1: baby crabs and baby fish that we like to eat

583
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: start their lives.

584
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 3: So anyway, let's keep the moon there. I've decided.

585
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 2: The moon makes things yummy nice.

586
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, yeah, the moon makes yummy things.

587
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: And the moon also affects global weather in other ways

588
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 2: because it changes current patterns. You know, it helps stabilize

589
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: climates by mixing up the air. Like it's pulling on

590
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 2: the air as well, so it's not just water. Has

591
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 2: all sorts of effects on the air and on the land.

592
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 2: In addition, of course, the moon provides light at night, right,

593
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: It's like essentially huge mirror in space reflecting the Sun

594
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 2: down to Earth. And so any crater that like takes

595
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: advantage of a little bit of moonlighte for hunting is

596
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 2: going to be disadvantaged. There is another in the category

597
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 2: of like things would be different. We don't know exactly

598
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: what that would mean, but we can sort of speculate intelligently,

599
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: and it seems certain that it would dramatically change the

600
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: conditions for life.

601
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: Would it be good for our favorite creatures, which are rats,

602
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: that would it help them hide at night?

603
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: It would it be good for rats that are out

604
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 2: at night, especially because it would be bad for owls, right,

605
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 2: owls that do a lot of rat eating. But also

606
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: it would be good for astronomers. You know, having a

607
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 2: moon is really bad when you're on the ground with

608
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 2: your telescope and you want to look at some star

609
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: and then boom, you have this huge sun mirror shining

610
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: into your eyeballs. It's a lot harder to have dark nights.

611
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: So a lot of our dark knights are ruined by

612
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 2: a moon. So you know, maybe there's a conspiracy out

613
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: there among astronomers to get rid of the moon.

614
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 3: Hey guys, knock it off. Knock it off. We need

615
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 3: the moon.

616
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: And there's even more dramatic effects that the moon plays

617
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: on the Earth. It's not just the tides and not

618
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: just the air, it's not just the night, but the

619
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: Earth's rotation and tilt are strongly affected by the moon

620
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 2: because the moon is pretty big, like especially for our moon, right,

621
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 2: lots of moons in the Solar system are much smaller

622
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: than our moon, but our moon is big enough that

623
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 2: it carries a significant fraction of the angular energy of

624
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: the Earth Moon system. So people think that the Earth's

625
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: rotation itself is affected by having a moon, and that

626
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,479
Speaker 2: the tilt of the Earth is sort of moderated by

627
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: the moon. So like if we didn't have a moon,

628
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 2: earth tilt might be even crazier, it might be much deeper.

629
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 3: That would affect seasons.

630
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: It absolutely would affect seasons. Or it could also have

631
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: no tilt, right, and we can end up with no seasons.

632
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: And so the Earth's rotation and the earth tilt is

633
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: a product of this balance between the Earth and the Moon.

634
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 2: And there's another fun thing that's happening there, which is

635
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: that as these two are sort of massaging each other

636
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: right tidal and they're using their angular momentum to massage

637
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 2: each other, and it takes some energy to sequi easy

638
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 2: the Earth into a football. As it does that, it's

639
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 2: losing some of its angry momentum, and so the Moon

640
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 2: is actually getting further and further away from us every year,

641
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: and not by like some tiny amount like microns or something.

642
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 2: It's happening by one centimeter per year.

643
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: I mean, that's still a tiny amount. I thought you

644
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: were gonna tell me like a mile a year or something,

645
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: but you know that. I'm still concerned because I'm Kelly,

646
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: and I'm concerned about everything. But like, the centimeter doesn't

647
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: sound like a lot. Convince me it's a lot.

648
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: Well, it's not a lot for a year, but if

649
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 2: you have a lot of years, that's a lot of centimeters.

650
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 2: Imagine what the Moon might have looked like a million

651
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: years ago or two million years ago. As our ancestors

652
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: are walking across the plains. They had a bigger moon

653
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 2: in their night than we did.

654
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 3: Dinosaurs saw a bigger moon.

655
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, that's kind of cool. Yeah, okay, Dinosaur astronomers

656
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: had an easier time understanding the surface of the Moon

657
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: because it was closer.

658
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 3: Now I care work.

659
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: Did dinosaur entomologists drop steril insects on Californians.

660
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: One of my favorite dinosaur stories is somebody who reconstructed

661
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: the path of the asteroid that hit the Earth sixty

662
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 2: five million years ago, and at least one of the

663
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: possible paths includes a close flyby before it actually hit,

664
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 2: So that means that dinosaur astronomers had plenty of warning.

665
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: Oh wow, they could have seen this thing in the

666
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: sky before it hit, like weeks beforehand and prepared. But man,

667
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 2: they didn't fund astronomy enough. So there's a lesson, folks,

668
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: fund astronomy.

669
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: That's right, Dinosaur NASA should have gotten a lot more money.

670
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 2: And on that note, you know, this interstellar commt is

671
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 2: fascinating and it's not going to hit the Earth, so

672
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 2: nobody should worry. But you know, if it was pointed

673
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: at the Earth, then we would have very little time

674
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 2: to do anything about it, which means we should be

675
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 2: getting ready to do something about it before we spot

676
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: these things. So like we really should be spending more

677
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 2: time and energy on Earth protective services if you ask me.

678
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: So that's that's two squares on your Bingo card if

679
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: you're not keeping track. There's a existential dread and more

680
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: funding for science.

681
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 2: Especially because these sins could be lobbed in our direction

682
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: by aliens. So there's another Bengo square.

683
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: Fo yep, yep, yeah, Oh sorry, we still got to

684
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: hit on cannibalism and poop.

685
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 3: We'll get there, all right.

686
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: So if we lost our moon, or if Earth never

687
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: had a moon, we're looking at a very different situation

688
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: for life. We know that life on Earth would change

689
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 2: a lot, or may have not evolved or could have

690
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 2: evolved very differently. I don't have any reason to believe this,

691
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: but my hunch is that if Earth didn't have a moon,

692
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,479
Speaker 2: we still might have gotten life. It just would be

693
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: very different. You know, it's easy to say these conditions

694
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: were required for life to turn out as we know it.

695
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 2: Therefore life wouldn't have evolved if you don't have those conditions.

696
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: But I think it's also equally likely that life just

697
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: would have been weird or indifferent. But the other side

698
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: of Robert's question is not just losing our moon, but

699
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: what about more moons? What if Earth had two moons

700
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 2: or seven moons? What would that be like? And is

701
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 2: that possible? And yes, it is still possible at this

702
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 2: fairly mature stage in the Solar system to get more moons.

703
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 2: We think this happened a lot with Jupiter and Saturn,

704
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 2: for example, some of their moons were formed as the

705
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: planet's formed, sort of leftover stuff that was too far

706
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 2: out and moving too fast to fall into the planet,

707
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 2: sort of the same way the planets didn't fall into

708
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 2: the Sun. And these moons tend to orbit in the

709
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 2: plane of the Solar System. But some of the moons

710
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: have like wacky orbits, and this might be because they're captured.

711
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 2: They're just something that came by and the gravity of

712
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: Jupiter or Saturn grabbed onto it. And so the Earth

713
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: could do that too. You have some chunk of stuff

714
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: from another Solar System or from somewhere else in the

715
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: Solar System comes by at the right angle and the

716
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 2: right velocity, the Earth could grab it, and then we

717
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: could get two moons. Wow, and then we'd have even

718
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 2: wackier tides.

719
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: If you had to guess probabilistically, if something comes close

720
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: to Earth, yeah zero oh yeah, okay, so it would

721
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 1: be more likely to smack into us and do damage

722
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: then create another moon, right.

723
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, most likely it hits us or it totally

724
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 2: misses us. But to get captured, you need to have

725
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: exactly the right velocity and radius match, right, Like you know,

726
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: first your physics, you can do the orbital mechanics at

727
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: every radius from the Earth. You need a specific velocity

728
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 2: in order to be in orbit, and so those things

729
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 2: have to match, and the angle has to match, and

730
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: so yeah, it's unlikely, but you know, obviously it has happened.

731
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 2: There definitely are moons that have been captured, so it

732
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: could happen to us. Whoa, and so it would affect

733
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: the tides. They would be even more complicated for grad

734
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: students trying to plan their experiments.

735
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 3: Trying to go get snails.

736
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could affect the Earth's tilt and spin if

737
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: it's a big thing, right, So it could have a

738
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 2: real impact. And those two moons then would have complicated interactions.

739
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 2: They could even like squeeze each other and induce, like

740
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 2: you know, stuff going on inside those moons. You could

741
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: end up with like a volcanic moon in the sky.

742
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 2: That would be pretty awesome.

743
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 3: Could we get a ring? Could they break each other

744
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 3: apart and give us some ring?

745
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, the moon could destroy the other one, or

746
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: the other one could destroy the moon. We could end

747
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 2: up with a ring. It could be really fascinating. So

748
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 2: is this something you should worry about. It's unlikely that

749
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: we would lose our moon anytime in your lifetime or

750
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 2: your children's lifetime or the next thousand years. If we

751
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 2: lose the moon's pretty survivable. If the moon gets destroyed,

752
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: then yeah, you'll be glad you built that bunker. But

753
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 2: you know, I think you have bigger things to worry about.

754
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 2: I think you should be more worried about screwworm than moons.

755
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 3: And science funding.

756
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 2: All right, well, thanks very much for that question, Robert.

757
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 2: Let me know how your science fiction novel is turning.

758
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 5: Out awesome, Thank you guys. So basically, we don't know,

759
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 5: and I kind of love when this happens because it's

760
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 5: finding the edges of what we know and don't know,

761
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 5: and it just shines a light on areas of future research.

762
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 5: You know, maybe if we figure out how the moon

763
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 5: or moons might play a part in evolution, then that

764
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 5: might help future SETI type programs to search for exoplanets

765
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 5: with you know, only one moon if we find that

766
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 5: that's a critical part of you know, life creation, or

767
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 5: focus on planets that have moons and ignore the ones

768
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 5: that don't. Whatever that case is. But I appreciate it,

769
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 5: Thank you very much, and yay, go fund research.

770
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 2: All right, we're back and we're answering questions from listeners,

771
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: and we're going back from physics into the gross world

772
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: of biology. So finish up that snack before you listen

773
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: to the rest of this episode.

774
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: Let's listen to a fantastic question from Anthony.

775
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 4: Hello, Daniel and Kelly. I'm Anthony from Orlando, Florida. I

776
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 4: enjoy your podcast and learn a great deal from you both.

777
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 4: Your recent conversation on Preon's was fascinating and scary. I

778
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 4: believe there is a comment in that discussion on synthetic blood.

779
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,919
Speaker 4: What is the progress in developing synthetic blood for general use?

780
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 4: Are we any closer to it being used? Would it

781
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 4: be universal or type like regular blood? Again, thank you

782
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 4: and love your podcast.

783
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 2: All right, Kelly, So what is blood anyway?

784
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's complicated. It's not It depends, but it's complicated.

785
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: So blood, depending on how you want to slice it,

786
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: blood can be three or more things. So one of

787
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: them is plasma. This is like the fluidy part of

788
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 1: your blood. It's something like fifty five percent of your blood.

789
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 2: I've never understood why do they call it plasma, because

790
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 2: to me, plasma is a gas that's been heated up

791
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 2: until you get ions. Is there some similarity between physics

792
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 2: plasma and blood plasma?

793
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: Gosh, you know, if I had to put money on it,

794
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: our plasma came first. So I don't know the answer,

795
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: but you guys probably stole it.

796
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 2: From us, fair fair.

797
00:38:58,960 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 3: All right.

798
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, this it carries stuff around like electrolytes and

799
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,919
Speaker 1: hormones and antibodies made by your immune system, and it's

800
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: the bulk of blood, like fifty five percent of blood.

801
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: It also carries around stuff that helps with coagulation, so

802
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: like when you get a cut and your cut sort

803
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: of clots up and makes a scam. And then about

804
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: forty four percent is red blood cells, and inside of

805
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: the red blood cells is hemoglobin, and hemoglobin is what

806
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: carries oxygen to different parts of your body. And then

807
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: the last part is platelets, and these are like little

808
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: parts of cells that are really important for coagulation and

809
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: clotting up wounds.

810
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 2: So as somebody who's naive about biology, I always imagine

811
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 2: the blood is like, you know, it's the circulatory system.

812
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,439
Speaker 2: It's like the highway for the body. Everything that needs

813
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: to go from one place to another gets dumped into

814
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 2: the blood. And then somebody else pulls it out.

815
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 3: Yep.

816
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 2: And so we're talking about water, electrolytes andti bodies, red

817
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 2: blood cells, platelets. All this stuff is just flowing through

818
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 2: the blood and useful to some bits.

819
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 3: Of the body.

820
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 2: Is that fair?

821
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 3: Yes, Your blood vessels are the highway system move in

822
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 3: the blood around.

823
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 2: So then why do we have different types of blood

824
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 2: when it makes blood A or B or O or whatever.

825
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 3: Yeah?

826
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: Right, So we've known about this for a while, So

827
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna quick back up into history. So for

828
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: a while, we were like infusing blood from dogs into people,

829
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: or blood from lambs into people. Actually I think it

830
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: was mostly lambs, and there was a bit of a

831
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: religious like lambs are sort of innocent, lamb of God

832
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: sort of thing, and so that's the right kind of

833
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: animal to be putting into our bodies. And so for

834
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: a while, lamb blood was going into people. But we

835
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: learned that not only is it bad to put blood

836
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: from other animals into humans, it can also be bad

837
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: to switch blood from one human to another. And Austrian

838
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: physician Karl Landsteiner in nineteen hundred started mixing up different

839
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: blood from different people and he was like, well, sometimes

840
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: when you mix blood together, it coagulates and sometimes it doesn't,

841
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: and it's always the same if you take blood from

842
00:40:59,400 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: He wasn't.

843
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 2: Doing his experiments in people. He was like doing this

844
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 2: in the lab.

845
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: As I understand it, he was extracting blood from people

846
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: in his lab and he was like, you know, if

847
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: you extract blood from person A in person B, every

848
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: time you do that and mix the bloods together, it clots.

849
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: But person a in person sees blood every time you

850
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: do it doesn't clot when you put them together. So

851
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: what the heck is going on there? And he eventually

852
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: gets the Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine for sort

853
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: of figuring this out. And the answer is that blood

854
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: have like proteins that are like sticking out on the cells,

855
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: and some people have different kinds of proteins than others.

856
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,720
Speaker 1: And if two people have different proteins on their blood cells,

857
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: then your immune system will recognize it as foreign and

858
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: attack it.

859
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 2: And that's what the clots are. And the clots are

860
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 2: like the immune system clumping it up.

861
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, yeah, and so but so you asked why

862
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: do we have different blood types?

863
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 3: And the answer, we do not know.

864
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,320
Speaker 1: And so for a while it was popular to postulate

865
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: that it had something to do with like our ancestry

866
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: and where we came from. Like type A blood is maybe,

867
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: you know, like hunter gatherers, and so those people actually

868
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: should be eating more of like a hunter gatherer diet

869
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: because their blood.

870
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 3: Is like that's what it evolved for.

871
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: But the answer is that blood types show up in

872
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: primates before humans. So you know, chimpanzees have blood types,

873
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: and we don't really understand it could have something to

874
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: do with differences in immune functioning. So you know, maybe

875
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 1: people with type A blood might be more susceptible to

876
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: some virus that sweeps through the population, and type B

877
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: blood would be less susceptible. And this variability popped up

878
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: at some point and then was retained because it helped

879
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: some parts of the population avoid diseases. But the answer is,

880
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: we really don't know. But it happened before humans came around, all.

881
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 2: Right, So then it can't be explained by for example,

882
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 2: I radiated flesh eating flies distributed on the population by

883
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 2: the government.

884
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 3: Guys, those flies that are radiated. It's a good thing.

885
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 3: It's a good thing.

886
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: The science is helping us. You Californians are always jumping

887
00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: to conspiracy theories.

888
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 2: It's just so fun. It's just so easy. Now I

889
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 2: see why they do it.

890
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 3: It feels good, doesn't it.

891
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't need evidence, it just need a compelling story.

892
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 2: That's right, all right. So we have all these things

893
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 2: inside the blood. So why do we think about synthetic blood?

894
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: Why do people work on making fake blood?

895
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: So right now, what we do is we get blood

896
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: from donors, and that's great. And when you donate blood,

897
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 1: often what happens is your blood is sort of separated

898
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 1: out into different parts, the red blood cells, the plasma,

899
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: the platelets, and they can go to different people depending

900
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: on their need. A major need for blood, though, is trauma.

901
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: So you know, for example, if you get into a

902
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: car accident and you lose a lot of blood when

903
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: you get to the er, when you get into the ambulance,

904
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: they might want to try to increase the amount of

905
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: blood that you have, and so donated blood gets used

906
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: for that purpose. And then another important use for blood

907
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: is in wartime, and here it's particularly hard to transport

908
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: blood from blood banks back home because blood has a

909
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: shelf life.

910
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 3: So red blood.

911
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: Cells are good for you know, a bit more than

912
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: a month month and a half, depending on like where

913
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: you are and what their rules are. I think platelets

914
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: are good for something like a week. Uh, And so

915
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: this stuff isn't good indefinitely, and it takes a long

916
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: time to get it from a bank to overseas, for example,

917
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: if you're talking about a war situation, and so having

918
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: synthetic blood would be great not only for these situations

919
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: where you know it's hard to get the blood to

920
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 1: where it needs to go, but also every once in

921
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 1: a while we have shortages. So, for example, the Red

922
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: Cross has declared blood shortages at different times, and so

923
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,919
Speaker 1: if you can't get enough blood from people, it would

924
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: be nice to have synthetic blood. And the purpose of

925
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 1: synthetic blood is really just to hold you over until

926
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: your body can start making your own.

927
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 2: Wouldn't it also be nice to have synthetic blood because

928
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 2: then you could prevent like the spread of blood borne diseases.

929
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, So I mean that's worth considering. But at

930
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:55,479
Speaker 3: this point, we have.

931
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: A lot of complicated screening procedures to find out if

932
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: blood is carrying infections, and I believe that we extract out,

933
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 1: for example, white blood cells before you give people blood,

934
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: because white blood cells, you know, could be carrying things

935
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: like HIV, And so the probability that you pick up

936
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: a disease from a transfusion in the United States and

937
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: the UK is very low. It might be higher in

938
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: other parts of the world, but we're very careful about

939
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: screening it here.

940
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so how do the various human blood types

941
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 2: connect to the question of like making synthetic blood where

942
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 2: we have to make several different synthetic blood types.

943
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: Well, so that's the great thing about synthetic blood is

944
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: hopefully you don't have to worry about typing anymore because

945
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: you can make synthetic blood that doesn't have those sort

946
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: of proteins sticking on the outside that are going to

947
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: attract the attention of the immune system. And so it

948
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: would be helpful for example, like you know, imagine there's

949
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: an accident and somebody whose blood type you don't know

950
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: is going to need a bunch of blood. I guess

951
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 1: you need to take all of the different kinds of

952
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: blood with you, and then you need to take the

953
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: time to get a small sample of blood from the

954
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: trauma patients to figure out what kind of blood they have,

955
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: or at least you need to make sure you've got

956
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: enough of the universal donor's blood, which is type O,

957
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: to bring with you. So it would be much less

958
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 1: complicated if you didn't have to worry about blood typing

959
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: at all, and you could just universally have a synthetic

960
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: blood that you could bring with you that was more

961
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: shelf stable. This would solve a lot of problems. So

962
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: most of the research so far has been done on

963
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 1: making synthetic red blood cells. So this is again about

964
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: forty five percent of what blood is made of. And

965
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 1: initially what they were doing was they just got hemoglobin,

966
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 1: which is the part that binds to the oxygen, and

967
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: they were putting hemoglobin in people. They were like, well,

968
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: the important thing is the oxygen transport in an emergency

969
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: to keep everything going. But hemoglobin interacts with other kinds

970
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,720
Speaker 1: of oxygen in the body. So nitric oxide is used

971
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: by our blood vessels to control vasodilation and vasoconstrictions, so

972
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: essentially to control how open or closed your blood vessels are,

973
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: and so just putting hemoglobin in meant that the hemoglobin

974
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: could interact with the nitric oxide and could tinker with vasodilation.

975
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: That sounds bad, or at least that was what was

976
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: claimed by a meta analysis that sort of changed the

977
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: way the whole fields felt about these things. And so,

978
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,720
Speaker 1: for example, there's a product called Hemopure which was developed

979
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: in the nineties and it's essentially a cow hemoglobin which

980
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: has been purified, and now it's only used in compassionate

981
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: use cases, like you absolutely need it to try to

982
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: save someone's life. But there's some concern about it, you know,

983
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: messing with vasodilation. But some doctors still use it, and

984
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: in fact, there are doctors who argue that, like, look,

985
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: this isn't actually a massive problem because people are only

986
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: using this for like a day or two before their

987
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 1: body can start making enough red blood cells to replace them.

988
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: This isn't a real long term problem. We're overreacting. But

989
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: the field has essentially decided that this pure hemoglobin route

990
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: is not the best way to go.

991
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 3: So what do you do.

992
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: So there's a new company called Erythromyre and they're making

993
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: a red blood cell analog. So essentially what they do

994
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: is they get hemoglobin. In this case, they are extracting

995
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: hemoglobin from blood that has been donated but is now

996
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: past its shelf life. So if that blood doesn't get

997
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,720
Speaker 1: given to someone in time they take it, they remove

998
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: the red blood cell outer part, they extract the hemoglobin,

999
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: and then they put the hemoglobin in a lipid layer

1000
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: that they have made, so they essentially like enclose it

1001
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: in a tiny, fatty capsule. It's smaller than a usual

1002
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: red blood cell, but it keeps the hemoglobin from interacting

1003
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: with the nitric oxide and messing with the vasodilation stuff.

1004
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,399
Speaker 1: And this is actually a really clever molecule. So it's

1005
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: pH sensitive, which is important. So when it goes to

1006
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: the lungs and you have high pH, it allows oxygen

1007
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: to bind to the hemoglobin, and then when you get

1008
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: to the parts of your body that are in need

1009
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: of oxygen, that ends up being a low pH environment

1010
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: and the hemoglobin can let go of the oxygen and

1011
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: the oxygen can go oxygenate your other cells like it

1012
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: needs to, which is like kind of fascinating to me,

1013
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: like what a cool thing to have been able to

1014
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: figure out. And it's universal, so there's no compatibility problems.

1015
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: You don't have to type a patient beforehand. It's a

1016
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: freeze dried powder and so you mix it with saline,

1017
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: so you essentially get this like plastic bag that with

1018
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: the divider in the center, and you've got the like

1019
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 1: freeze dried eurythromyr on one side and saline on the

1020
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: other side, which is like salt water that's the same

1021
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: sort of saltiness as our blood. And then you like

1022
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: break the divider between them, you mix the whole bag up,

1023
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: and now you've got red blood cells or you know,

1024
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: synthetic red blood cells that you're ready to give to

1025
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 1: a patient. And they're thinking this could be shelf stable

1026
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: for up to two years.

1027
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: And they've like tried this at works. It like actually

1028
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 2: carries the oxygen the way that you need.

1029
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: They have done experiments on animals and it seems to

1030
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: be doing well in the animals, and it seems like

1031
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: they're lipid case for the hema globin gets you know,

1032
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: processed by the digestive system the way you would expect

1033
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: it to and you sort of pee it out when

1034
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: you're done with it. And so the animal studies so

1035
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: far have been promising. And a lead guy on the

1036
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: project is doctor Doctor, and so I feel like we

1037
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: have to trust that this is being done well.

1038
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 2: Like his last name is doctor and he's the title

1039
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 2: of doctor.

1040
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:24,959
Speaker 3: That's exactly right, yes, And.

1041
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 2: If he was at a German university, he could be

1042
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: like doctor, professor, doctor doctor.

1043
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, amazing, we should move him to Germany.

1044
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 2: So I'm really surprised that you can replace red blood

1045
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 2: cells with something so simple, like, aren't red blood cells complicated?

1046
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 2: Aren't they doing something else? Is there anything else that

1047
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 2: red blood cells aren't doing that we're not capturing with

1048
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 2: just hemoglobin in a fatty drop.

1049
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: Probably, but you really just need to keep someone alive

1050
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: for like the again, for the time that it makes

1051
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 1: for their bone marrow to make their own red blood cells.

1052
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 1: And so this is definitely just a short term solution

1053
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: to keep your heart kicking so that you have time to,

1054
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: you know, do the recovery on your own.

1055
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 2: This seems kind of amazing. Is this something you think

1056
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 2: we're going to see in hospitals and trauma centers?

1057
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: I think they're going to be starting experiments in humans

1058
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: in the not too distant future, so it's possible we'll

1059
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: see this. But this is really hard because like, who

1060
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: do you decide to give it to first? It's going

1061
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 1: to be tough to design the human trials because we

1062
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: know that red blood cells donated from a human work,

1063
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: and so figuring out the first person who you're going

1064
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 1: to be like, oh.

1065
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,280
Speaker 3: No, you're in it. This is a trauma situation.

1066
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: You might die, but we're going to give you this

1067
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: experimental thing, even though we could give you this other

1068
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: thing that we know would work. You know, that's a

1069
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: little bit difficult, and so I'm sure they're going to

1070
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: have a little bit of trouble designing and finding the

1071
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 1: right population to try this on.

1072
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 2: You can imagine the compassionate use. You could give this

1073
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 2: to trauma centers and then when they are in a

1074
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: situation where they just don't have blood and somebody's going

1075
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 2: to die, they're like, all right, well let's dip into

1076
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 2: the fake stuff.

1077
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, yep.

1078
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,439
Speaker 1: Or you could send it to folks who are out

1079
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 1: at the front lines in a war and they might

1080
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: not be able to to blood type someone or something

1081
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: like that, so they can't tell and they might not

1082
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 1: be able to get blood donations. And so yes, you

1083
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: absolutely can't imagine situations where having this on hand as

1084
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: a backup could get you the data.

1085
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 3: That you need.

1086
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 2: All right, and what about the rest of the blood,

1087
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 2: what about synthetic platelets?

1088
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so doctor Ashley Brown's lab at North Carolina State

1089
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: University has a platelet like particle that is an animal

1090
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 1: testing right now, and the animal tests have gone pretty well.

1091
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: So essentially what they did was they've got this like

1092
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: very tiny nanoparticle that they made and it's like a

1093
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: tiny microgel, so it's sort of soft and squishy, and

1094
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: they've attached to it a protein that binds with this

1095
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: thing called fibrin. So when your body starts to make

1096
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,919
Speaker 1: a clot, fibrin is a protein that's used to sort

1097
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 1: of get that clot sticking together, and so essentially your

1098
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 1: body starts dealing with the wound and then you're putting

1099
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: this stuff in there, which is going to bind with

1100
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: the fibrin that's already in the clot, and it's going

1101
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: to move the clotting process along more quickly. So it

1102
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:04,320
Speaker 1: essentially finds where clots are forming by having this antibody

1103
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 1: that binds with something you find in clots, or at

1104
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 1: least that's my understanding. And so they did it in

1105
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: mice and pigs and things went well. They said that

1106
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: they might be a few years before human trials, and

1107
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: there's things that they want to do, like get clumping

1108
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: to work a little bit better. And this is definitely

1109
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: not like, oh hey, we have created platelets again, and

1110
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,800
Speaker 1: everything that platelets do we're able to do with the

1111
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: synthetic product. But it could be a really good measure

1112
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: for like again, you know, there's a trauma situation. You

1113
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: just got to get somebody to the point where their

1114
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 1: body can recover and take over this work on its own.

1115
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: And so anyway, so the take home, Anthony wanted to

1116
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,919
Speaker 1: know how close are we and the answer is that

1117
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: we've got synthetic blood components that are being tested in

1118
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: non human animals, and the current designs would be universal

1119
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: if they work out. But we're mostly in the trial phase,

1120
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: and so we're still relying on blood from human donors

1121
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: more than anything else. There are some other products on

1122
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: the market that we didn't talk about, but sort of

1123
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 1: in general, at the moment, we are mostly relying on

1124
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 1: human donors. And I'm sorry for all the vampires out there.

1125
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: Still have some work left to do. True blood is

1126
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:15,439
Speaker 1: not ready yet.

1127
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you made a vampire joke, because I

1128
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 2: feel bad I fell down on the opportunity to make

1129
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: a were wolf joke in the moon question, you know.

1130
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: I know, so, Oh my gosh, Daniel we could have

1131
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:28,839
Speaker 1: had zombies and werewolves and you know what, let's let's

1132
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 1: start recording again.

1133
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:30,760
Speaker 3: We're going to do this again.

1134
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 2: All right. Well, that's exciting, and I'm also sort of surprised.

1135
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 2: You're sort of like optimistic and upbeat about this. This

1136
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:42,800
Speaker 2: seems like great news. Have you spent some time in

1137
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 2: California recently? What's going on now?

1138
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 1: I'm surprised too. You know, I didn't get enough sleep

1139
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: and you know the all right here, let's go ahead

1140
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 1: and we'll do the Kelly treatment a.

1141
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 2: Right.

1142
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:54,879
Speaker 1: It should be worth noting that we have tried things

1143
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,720
Speaker 1: in the past that have not stuck. So for example,

1144
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: you know that the straight up hemoglobin without a like

1145
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: lipid layer, you know, we was tried and we ended

1146
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: up deciding this is not really the solution for us.

1147
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: So it's possible that will happen with these other things

1148
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 1: that we talked about today too. So there's the Kelly treatments,

1149
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: all right.

1150
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 2: A little bit of cold water. But yeah, on the whole,

1151
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 2: this seems very promising.

1152
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 3: Yeah it does. It doesn't.

1153
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: So I am really looking forward to when the vampires

1154
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,839
Speaker 1: can come out of hiding and we can start dating them.

1155
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 2: Yay.

1156
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: Science that's right, that's right.

1157
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 2: All right. Well let's see what Anthony thinks about our

1158
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 2: answer on synthetic blood.

1159
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 4: Daniel and Kelly, as usual, you guys knocked it out

1160
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:41,399
Speaker 4: the park. I appreciate your answers. I learned a great deal.

1161
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 4: I was particularly interested in this because I have relatives

1162
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:49,800
Speaker 4: whose religious convictions would prevent them from accepting blood transfusions. Perhaps,

1163
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 4: as this science develops, they'll have another choice, or an

1164
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 4: alternate decision that can save their lives. Possibly. I appreciate

1165
00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 4: your answers, love your podcast.

1166
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, Okay, thank you everybody for these

1167
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 2: wonderful questions. We love hearing from you. Please do write

1168
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 2: to us two questions at Daniel and Kelly dot org.

1169
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 2: We say we will write back to everybody, and we

1170
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 2: really really mean it. We want to hear from you

1171
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 2: so that you can hear from us.

1172
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 3: We look forward to hearing from you. Have a good one.

1173
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe is produced by iHeartRadio.

1174
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:27,319
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1175
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,360
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1176
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 2: have about this Extraordinary Universe.

1177
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,280
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1178
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:37,280
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1179
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 3: If you contact us, we will get back to you.

1180
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 2: We really mean it. We answer every message. Email us

1181
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,000
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1182
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:47,920
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1183
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 1: We have accounts on x, Instagram, Blue Sky and on

1184
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 1: all of those platforms.

1185
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,800
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1186
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,880
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