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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcomes True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We are talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm producer Courtney Armstrong here with

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Speaker 2: crime analyst Body move in. Stephanie Leidecker is out this

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Speaker 2: evening and we will muddle through somehow, though barely. It

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Speaker 2: is July thirty. First, we have a stacked night of headlines.

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Speaker 2: Veteran trial attorney Jarrett Farentino is here. He will be

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Speaker 2: breaking down all things Diddy Epstein and that dopey dopey dentist.

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Speaker 2: We also have updates for the Devil's Den and Travis

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Speaker 2: decker manhunts, and later in the show we're going to

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Speaker 2: be going into the shocking murder. It's a case that

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Speaker 2: some people are calling the Gods misfit murders. But first listen,

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Speaker 2: you guys have been sending in such amazing talkbacks and

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Speaker 2: voicemails asking legal questions about Brian Colberger's case. And I

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Speaker 2: know Boddy and I have plenty of our own, and

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Speaker 2: that is why we have Jarrett Farentino. He has a

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Speaker 2: veteran trial attorney. He has handled some of Pennsylvania's most

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Speaker 2: high profile murder cases. Now he is a national legal

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Speaker 2: analyst and a true crime expert, the co host of

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Speaker 2: the YouTube series Primetime Crime and host of the podcast

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Speaker 2: true Crime Boss. This guy does it all. Thank you

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Speaker 2: for joining us.

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Speaker 3: Jared, pleasure to be with you. How are you.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's always so great. We're so excited to have you. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: you always speak legal ease so that we all can understand.

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Speaker 3: Oh. Well, likewise, it's always a pleasure to be with

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Speaker 3: You're ready to answer the questions on all of these cases.

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Speaker 3: There's always so much going on.

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Speaker 2: For sure. Listen, body, why don't you start us off?

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Speaker 2: Lay the groundwork of where we're going to begin.

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Speaker 4: Right So, Brian Coberger he is a former criminally criminally, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: he's criminally and Brian Cooberger a former criminology student, a

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Speaker 4: PhD student in fact at WSU Washington State University. He

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Speaker 4: pled guilty on July second of this month to murdering

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Speaker 4: four University of Idaho students, Kaylee Consolvus, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle,

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Speaker 4: and Ethan Chapin after they were brutally stabbed in their

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Speaker 4: off campus home in Moscow, Idaho, in November of twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty two. Sorry, I'm catch without Stephanie here babysitting Amy.

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Speaker 4: I can't catch my breath. It's hard, it's hard. He

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Speaker 4: was sentenced on July twenty third. We all kind of

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Speaker 4: had many shows about the sentencing, and so check the

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Speaker 4: podcast for all those. Coburger received four consecutive life sentences

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Speaker 4: without parole, plus an additional ten years for burglary, avoiding

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Speaker 4: the death penalty under a plea deal. And this plea

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Speaker 4: deal was very controversial because there didn't seem to be

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Speaker 4: any necessity to do any sort of elocution or give

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Speaker 4: any sort of confession. It was just sort of a

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Speaker 4: let's plead guilty and that's it. So there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of questions that have come up because of this, and

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Speaker 4: thank god Jared's here because our listeners have a lot

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Speaker 4: of questions, and you know, so do we So can

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Speaker 4: we just like jump right into it, you guys?

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Speaker 2: Ready?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, ye, okay, so vigorous. And Taylor is a really

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Speaker 4: good public defender. Well, she's a very good defense lawyer

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Speaker 4: and she was assigned this case, okay, because she is

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Speaker 4: one of only a handful of death penalty qualified lawyers

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Speaker 4: in Idaho, so luck of the draw she got Brian Coberger. Okay, However,

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Speaker 4: what is the ethical line? Because she stood up and

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Speaker 4: presented a motion in a closed hearing, thank god, where

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Speaker 4: four people were being blamed for this murder, and what

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Speaker 4: a week later he pled guilty? Like, what's the ethical

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Speaker 4: line here? Is there one?

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Speaker 3: I can tell you? This One of the most frequent

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Speaker 3: questions I get. I was a prosecutor for twenty years.

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Speaker 3: I count defense attorneys as some of my dearest friends,

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Speaker 3: and that that may sound odd, Okay. One of the

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Speaker 3: most common questions I get is how does a defense

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Speaker 3: attorney defend someone when they know they're guilty morally? How

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Speaker 3: do they do it legally? How do they do it? Now,

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Speaker 3: what Ann Taylor was doing was dancing a tightrope. She's saying,

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Speaker 3: despite the fact that I may or may not know

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Speaker 3: whether or not or suspect very strongly Collberger is guilty,

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Speaker 3: the state is still required to prove that beyond a

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Speaker 3: reasonable doubt. If I can suggest plausibly with evidence to

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Speaker 3: the jury that someone else may be responsible I have

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Speaker 3: to at least pursue that theory to protect the rights

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Speaker 3: of my client. Now you may sit there and say,

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Speaker 3: what if Kolberger told her I'm one hundred percent guilty

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Speaker 3: prior to doing that, she has an ethic dilemma at

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Speaker 3: that point. She's supporting perjury. She's putting four things she

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Speaker 3: knows are false that could be a problem. So it

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Speaker 3: really boils down to body, what did Anne Taylor know

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Speaker 3: and when did she know it? And what was she

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Speaker 3: prepared to do with those ultimate defense theories.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's a good thing that you brought up, because

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Speaker 4: that was our next question. How do they defend somebody

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Speaker 4: they know is guilty and we don't know that she did, right,

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Speaker 4: We don't know to Ann Taylor's benefit, Right, she's a

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Speaker 4: very good lawyer, she's by all means, we're not saying

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Speaker 4: that any chance that she knew he was guilty or

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Speaker 4: you know, anything like that is we're just talking, Okay,

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Speaker 4: We're just talking. So if she knows he's guilty, though,

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Speaker 4: if he did confess to her like hey, I really

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Speaker 4: did it, like you know it was me, and then

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Speaker 4: she gets up there and blames four innocent people, then

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Speaker 4: there's an ethical problem, and she could face perjury problems

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Speaker 4: with that. Is that accurate?

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Speaker 3: Well, she wouldn't be committing perjury. She's not testifying under Oh,

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Speaker 3: she's arguing on his path. So again we're just now

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Speaker 3: attorneys have if they know one hundred percent of client

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Speaker 3: is guilty, they've made it a mission and the client

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Speaker 3: is pushing them to do something maturely dishonest. They could

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Speaker 3: withdraw from the case and say, look, I'm in hot

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Speaker 3: at the super I gotta get the hell out of

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Speaker 3: this thing, right, So I don't know that we were

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Speaker 3: there with that portion of the case. Her argument could

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Speaker 3: have been, you pointed the finger at Brian, you're required

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Speaker 3: to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and you ignored the

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Speaker 3: four plausible other theories, not even necessarily saying they're guilty

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Speaker 3: beyond a reasonable doubt. So it really depended on how

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Speaker 3: far down the road she was willing to go with

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Speaker 3: those theories. But she was dancing a very tight rope there.

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Speaker 4: I could tell you she was taking a she was

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Speaker 4: taking a big chance then doing this, well, she.

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Speaker 3: She could have been and then but again not knowing

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Speaker 3: how things develop between she and Brian Coolberger when he

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Speaker 3: truly came clean with her. You know that that's really

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Speaker 3: it's a nuanced conversation that really pierces the attorney client

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Speaker 3: privilege between both she and Brian Coolberger.

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Speaker 2: I have one more follow up, and not to split

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Speaker 2: hair as Jarrett, but I've been kind of the one

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Speaker 2: particularly obsessed with this, and I will bring his name

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Speaker 2: up again. Kirknermi is a defense attorney and I've had

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Speaker 2: the pleasure of speaking with him, and he really helped

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Speaker 2: me understand just how big of an obligation when you

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Speaker 2: are defending somebody's life to put up a vigorous defense.

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Speaker 2: So within and again, we have no idea what Anne

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Speaker 2: Taylor knew or didn'td or you know what any attorney knows.

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Speaker 2: That's what privilege is for. But in this instance, make

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Speaker 2: believe that she indeed did know that Coburger did it.

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Speaker 2: Would it also be plausible and within legal bounds to say, okay,

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Speaker 2: even if that happened, isn't it also possible that person

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Speaker 2: A could have put some DNA or may have also

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Speaker 2: walked into the case, because part of what what she

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Speaker 2: was saying I believe was that someone potentially might have

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Speaker 2: planted it something. So couldn't both things be true, and

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Speaker 2: would that be a real legal defense.

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Speaker 3: And again that's why it's nuanced. Could it be, there's

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Speaker 3: still required to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt whether

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Speaker 3: she knows or more likely than not suspects that Brian

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Speaker 3: did this, So you still have to hold the state

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Speaker 3: to that standard. Is it possible that he did this

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Speaker 3: and somebody planted something on top of that? Yes, two

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Speaker 3: things to be true at once. So again he's walking

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Speaker 3: that title. Here's a different conversation if Brian Colberger consessed

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Speaker 3: to her then got on the stand in live, whole

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Speaker 3: different story. At that point, she's subborting perjury. That that's

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Speaker 3: a whole different deal than what we're talking about. We're

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Speaker 3: talking about holding the state to its standard and the

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Speaker 3: width of plausible other theories or plausible other defendants in

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Speaker 3: the face of maybe knowing or suspecting Brian did it.

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Speaker 3: So the moral battle and the legal battle are always

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Speaker 3: being had in those situations.

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Speaker 4: But I think the job that's going to be such

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Speaker 4: a hard job.

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Speaker 3: Well, to be death qualified like she is. If that's

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Speaker 3: no joke, that means she's a season trial lawyer. She's

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Speaker 3: been trained on death penalty cases and she's been a

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Speaker 3: part of one in the past, so this is someone

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Speaker 3: who's no slouch.

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Speaker 4: That was my next question. What makes you death penalty qualified?

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Speaker 4: So it's it's additional training.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so I for a many years of my

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Speaker 3: life was death qualified. I had this addition requisite number

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Speaker 3: of felony jury trials and the training in death penalty

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Speaker 3: and capital murder cases. So that's what's required. It's not

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Speaker 3: there's murder, then there's capital. Right, It's not enough just

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Speaker 3: to send a license attorney in to defend the life

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Speaker 3: of a defendant. You have to be qualified.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, thank you. Those have been questions burning in

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Speaker 2: our pockets for a while. This is True Crimes Night.

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Speaker 2: We're on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney Armstrong here as always with

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Speaker 2: Broddy Movin and we are joined tonight by veteran trial

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Speaker 2: attorney Jarrett Farentino. We're talking about the legal intricacies of

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Speaker 2: the Idaho student murder case. If you have any questions

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Speaker 2: for Jarrett, now's the time to call eight at eight

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Speaker 2: three one Crime and we actually have a talkback right now.

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Speaker 5: Yes, Fello ladies, my name is Chris. I'm calling from

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Speaker 5: Portlain and Idaho. I did watch the sentcings and I

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Speaker 5: felt that Olivia was awesome. She did an amazing job.

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Speaker 6: My heart goes out to all the families, and I

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Speaker 6: just was wondering. At the end the judge had mentioned

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Speaker 6: some kind of appeal that he could file, and I

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Speaker 6: was just wondering if you could maybe say a little

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Speaker 6: bit about what that is and what exactly it does

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Speaker 6: for him.

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Speaker 7: Hopefully nothing.

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Speaker 6: Thank you so much, have a great evening.

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Speaker 4: So, Jarrett, just a lot of people want to know

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Speaker 4: about this appeal because the way it was presented to

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Speaker 4: the public initially is that Brian Colberger is going to

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Speaker 4: get four consecutive life sentences without the possibility approl and

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Speaker 4: he's going to wave his rights to appeal. But then

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Speaker 4: we're in we're at the sentencing and the judge says,

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Speaker 4: there's forty two days to submit an appeal. What can

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Speaker 4: you explain to us because we don't know either. It's

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Speaker 4: confused and our listeners is what is he talking about?

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Speaker 4: What does that mean?

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Speaker 3: This is why people hate lawyers.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if that's the only reason.

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Speaker 5: Jared.

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Speaker 3: Let's be right, so let's start off with this concept.

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Speaker 3: He has an extremely narrow right to appeal like the

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Speaker 3: head of a pin right to appeal. He has waved

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Speaker 3: the traditional rights to appeal. Someone in Brian Kolberger's shoes

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Speaker 3: are in. That's a good piece of information. He cannot

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Speaker 3: unwave or unwring that bell. However, there is a case

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Speaker 3: from the United States Supreme Court, ironically from Idaho that says,

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Speaker 3: even if you wave your rights to appeal, if a

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Speaker 3: defendant asked the attorney within that forty two day period

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Speaker 3: to file an appeal, the attorney is still obligated to

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Speaker 3: do it. That's number one. And what are the things

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Speaker 3: that Brian Coberger could still potentially appeal? Number one thing

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Speaker 3: is he could say his attorneys were ineffective and failed

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Speaker 3: him in some way. That's really the major one. I

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Speaker 3: don't see him going anywhere with it. He has nothing

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Speaker 3: better to do for the rest of his life. He

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Speaker 3: may try it, but the judge said, you would be

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Speaker 3: in breach of your plea agreement too if you push

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Speaker 3: this too far.

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Speaker 4: Jared, you said before the break, if he does appeal,

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Speaker 4: then he breaks his plea agreement. What does that mean?

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Speaker 4: Does that mean they would have a trial? Does that mean?

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Speaker 4: What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: So we're talking about the coburger.

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Speaker 3: Oh sorry, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Very I don't have Jared for the entire night, and

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Speaker 2: so we want to get it all in. But if

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Speaker 2: you are just joining us, we're talking about the Idaho

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Speaker 2: student college murderers case. Brian Koberger was recently. He pled

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Speaker 2: out he is guilty of murdering for students and body

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Speaker 2: go with your question.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much Courtney for covering for me. Thank god.

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Speaker 4: But yes, so before the break, you mentioned that if

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Speaker 4: Brian Goldberger does file appeal, there's a chance that he

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Speaker 4: breaks his plea agreement. Does that mean anything legally?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, what will likely happen is the prosecution takes

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Speaker 3: the position he's waighed this right, the appeal gets kicked. However,

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Speaker 3: the argument the judge is saying is you break that

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Speaker 3: plea agreement. It could go as far as pulling you

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Speaker 3: back and putting you on trial. I don't foresee that

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Speaker 3: as happening. I think that the violation of the plea

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Speaker 3: agreement alone would be enough to toss any appeal beyond

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Speaker 3: that narrow limited right of appeal that he has. So

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Speaker 3: that was really it. It sounds like biting words, but

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Speaker 3: I promise you nobody's going to back themselves back into

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Speaker 3: that courtroom because Brian Colberger filed some BS appeal, right.

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Speaker 4: And that's kind of what I was thinking. Immediately went

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Speaker 4: to like, oh my god, does that mean, Like what

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Speaker 4: does that mean? Does it mean he'd get like death penalty?

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Speaker 4: Like what's happening? Okay, Okay, so it's just it's just

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Speaker 4: a formality. Then Okay, Wow, I got it.

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Speaker 2: Ok We had another question that again we have been

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Speaker 2: pocketing this where we've been talking about this case and saying, Okay,

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Speaker 2: when Jared Farentino's on, we'll find the answer. The court

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Speaker 2: finds so for each count, and there are four counts

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Speaker 2: of murder and one count of burglary, fifty thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: each plus and there's some additional costs thrown in. We're

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Speaker 2: talking two hundred and forty five dollars and fifty cents

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Speaker 2: per account and court costs. Who's paying those? What's going on?

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Speaker 3: No, it's saying but if they do so. Colberger doesn't

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Speaker 3: have a dime. He's into gen he if he he

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Speaker 3: gets a job, he won't even get a job. In jail.

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Speaker 3: He's in there twenty three hours a day, twenty three

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Speaker 3: and a half hours in his cell. He's in a

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Speaker 3: maximum security so if he did get a job, for example,

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Speaker 3: some of those moneyes could be utilized for a fine.

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Speaker 3: A portion of the money goes to court costs to

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Speaker 3: the Idaho State Treasurer. That's what typically happens. If a

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Speaker 3: defendant pays finds then there's the concept of restitution which

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Speaker 3: is not included in that, which would be funeral expenses

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Speaker 3: for example for Ethan, Maddy and Kayley. But that's restitution.

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Speaker 3: But again, Colberger is destitute, so he's not getting any

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Speaker 3: of that done.

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Speaker 4: But what if he decides to cooperate and write a book.

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Speaker 3: Well, now, most states have a prohibition against a criminal

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Speaker 3: earning monies on their crime, profiting from their crimes, so

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Speaker 3: he would not be able to do that. Those money,

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Speaker 3: any of those moneys could be seized and taken and

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Speaker 3: paying fines would be paid or restitution. So that's a

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Speaker 3: good question. But like I said, there is pretty much

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Speaker 3: a prohibition on profiteering from your crimes if you're in

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Speaker 3: the position like Kahlberger.

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Speaker 4: And those used to be called the Son of Sam

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Speaker 4: laws right in the United States and the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 4: and I think the nineties struck it downcing it was

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Speaker 4: unconstitutional because it violated free speech. It was too broad.

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Speaker 4: So then states kind of set up their own kind

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Speaker 4: of little son of Sam laws and idahoes. Basically is

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Speaker 4: that a criminal can't profit and if they do, the

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Speaker 4: families can sue for that money, which kind of stinks

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Speaker 4: because it takes some action from the families, you know,

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Speaker 4: like the families are good for the rest of their lives,

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Speaker 4: are going to have to be monitoring this this guy.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 3: Well, but I think there's the law is a deterrent

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Speaker 3: to today he wouldn't see those money.

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Speaker 4: Right right, go ahad.

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Speaker 2: So I'm not sure if any of the victims' families

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Speaker 2: are planning to pursue this case civilly. No, is that

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Speaker 2: because in civil cases it's always monetary because it's not prisons,

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Speaker 2: there would be no reason too. Is that correct?

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Speaker 3: Well, but what you're doing in a civil case is

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Speaker 3: looking for a responsible party that may have money if,

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Speaker 3: for example, and I'm not suggesting this, if the university

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Speaker 3: failed to secure the building or a portion of the property,

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Speaker 3: and I know something like that, like you're wow, he's

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Speaker 3: looking at things of that nature. For example, the Britney

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Speaker 3: Drexel case that I was involved in. They pursued the hotel,

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Speaker 3: Civilly and the defendants, so a little bit of a

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Speaker 3: different situation. But again you're looking for not just the slayer.

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Speaker 3: There may be other responsible parties.

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Speaker 7: Civilly liable and Shannon Gray.

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Speaker 4: Shannon Gray, who is Steve Consolate, well, the Gonsolvest family lawyer,

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Speaker 4: which is Kailee Gonsalez's family, one of the victims in

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Speaker 4: this case. He found a bunch of tort claims against

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Speaker 4: the University of Idaho, the City of Moscow, and I

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Speaker 4: think the Moscow PD I have to double check them.

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Speaker 4: Going from memory here back in June, I think of

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty three and I when those got filed, I thought, oh,

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Speaker 4: a civil case is coming. So I do think it.

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Speaker 4: I do think a civil case is possible, but not

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Speaker 4: against Brian Coberger.

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Speaker 3: Right, Well, he'd be he may be me, but again

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Speaker 3: he's not who you're pursuing. Civilly.

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Speaker 4: You're listening to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Boddy

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Speaker 4: Movin and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and veteran trial

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Speaker 4: attorney Jarrett Farantino, and we were right in the middle

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Speaker 4: of talking about Brian Coberger case but we have a

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Speaker 4: talk back. Can we go ahead and hear that talk back?

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Speaker 8: Evening Ladies at Cynthia from Canada calling, I'm just curious

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Speaker 8: in regards to the dentist who was convicted of administering

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Speaker 8: a noxious substance that eventually killed his wife. I believe

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Speaker 8: somebody had mentioned that he had attempted to do this previously.

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Speaker 8: I'm wondering if he was charged at that time with

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Speaker 8: uh that incident or incidents.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he did try he did try it personally or previously. Angela,

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Speaker 4: the victim in this case, confessed I believe, to her

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Speaker 4: either her sister or her best friend or both, and

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Speaker 4: said that you know, he had meant he she wasn't

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Speaker 4: feeling well, and he said that he was doing this

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Speaker 4: and he was doing this because he was going to

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Speaker 4: kill himself, because he had this sex addiction and he

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Speaker 4: was going to kill himself and didn't want, you know,

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Speaker 4: her to be alone because she would just be so

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Speaker 4: lonely and devastating. And in case you don't know what

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Speaker 4: we're talking about, we're talking about the Adobe dentist. The

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Speaker 4: Adobe dentist is James Craig. He's in Colorado. He's a dentist,

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Speaker 4: and he murdered his wife by poisoning you know, the

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Speaker 4: vizine drops that you know everybody uses, and put cyanide

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Speaker 4: in them, and then put drops of those in her

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Speaker 4: like little breakfast sake shakes that she would have in

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Speaker 4: the morning and.

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Speaker 2: A little sorry snick took you got the mix right, right,

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Speaker 2: And yesterday he was found guilty of those charges, and

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Speaker 2: so let's kind of talk about these a little bit

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Speaker 2: because it's a very interesting case and he was just

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Speaker 2: found guilty.

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Speaker 4: And there were a bunch of counts on this case.

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Speaker 4: He was found guilty of all of them except for

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Speaker 4: the manslaughter charge, and since we have Jared here, I

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Speaker 4: kind of wanted to talk about that, if that's okay.

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Speaker 4: So he got found guilty of murder. He got found

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Speaker 4: guilty of solicitation to commit murder because he was trying

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Speaker 4: to get the inmates that he was housed in jail

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Speaker 4: with to kill the lead detective in this case. He

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Speaker 4: got with his daughter and tried to get her to

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Speaker 4: make like deep fake AI videos of her, like you know,

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Speaker 4: of her mom, saying that she wanted to kill herself.

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Speaker 4: It was this case is kind of insane, and I

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Speaker 4: can't believe it's not getting a lot of attention. But

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Speaker 4: there were a lot of doctor Craig, Doctor Craig. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: And so there were a lot of charges that he

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Speaker 4: was found guilty of, but the one that he wasn't

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Speaker 4: found guilty of was manslaughter. And then something was suicide. Courtney,

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Speaker 4: do you remember it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was manslaughter as a cause or of suicide.

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Speaker 2: But I would love to hear Jarrett, what are your

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Speaker 2: thoughts about this case in general?

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Speaker 3: So, first of all, he is for a doctor, he's

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Speaker 3: pretty dumb, I mean to think as evil. Like there's

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Speaker 3: a special place in hell for poisoners. There's an even

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Speaker 3: special place in hell for poisoners out their wives. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so this guy in the cocktail of poisons, he hit

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Speaker 3: his white wib over a period of ten days, would

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Speaker 3: have killed an elephant. It's unbelievable what he did. But

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Speaker 3: the manslaughter charge. So, and as a prosecutor, you love

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Speaker 3: when the defendant tries to have the kilt that your

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Speaker 3: detective killed and tries to get people to lie and

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Speaker 3: you get those charges in in addition, in the same

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Speaker 3: case as your prosecution, it's unbelievable when you could show

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Speaker 3: this guy is so innocent. He tried to kill the cops,

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Speaker 3: and he told his own daughter to make a fake

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Speaker 3: video and got other inmates to do his bidding. So

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Speaker 3: it's a huge piece of evidence in a case that

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Speaker 3: was already very strong. The manslaughter charge why he was

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Speaker 3: acquitted because one of his defenses or claims was Angela

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Speaker 3: was trying to get him to help her commit suicide.

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Speaker 3: And if he did that, it's still ille eagle, it's

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Speaker 3: still reckless and would have resulted in her death. That

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Speaker 3: would be manslaughter, not first to be murdered.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting because that was the defense strategy, like basically

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Speaker 4: to blame her, Right, she was suicidal, she was you know,

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Speaker 4: not stable, et cetera, et cetera. How often does it

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Speaker 4: happen that the state will include charges that basically are

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Speaker 4: the defense strategy in this in the case? Is that often?

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Speaker 3: No, It's almost like an insurance policy on this thing.

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Speaker 3: That's what you tread lightly, and the other thing is

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Speaker 3: here's the other thing, Like he's a serial cheater, this guy, right,

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Speaker 3: he cheated on his wife all the time. They use

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Speaker 3: that as the reason she was so depressed. Like think

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Speaker 3: about how nuts this is, Like I know, not only

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Speaker 3: is he a poisoner, the fact that he's a cheater

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Speaker 3: is the very reason why he's not guilty of murder.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's garbage, and this guy's getting everything he

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Speaker 3: deserves life to us thirty three years and that's still

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Speaker 3: an in And let's not forget.

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Speaker 4: He also got tried to get one of the inmates

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Speaker 4: to go into the house that he gave that to

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Speaker 4: plant a journal. I think it was I mean, his kids,

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Speaker 4: Like he doesn't care about anything. He asked an inmate

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Speaker 4: to go into his house and plants journal. He gave

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Speaker 4: the inmate his door code, the layout of the house

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Speaker 4: where to put it. I just can't believe how reckless

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Speaker 4: he was while he was even in jail.

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Speaker 3: It's just a twisted that is, when you're he's sitting

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Speaker 3: in his dental office, at no time does he say,

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Speaker 3: you know what, this is probably not a good idea.

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Speaker 3: In jail, he's.

433
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 4: Still going It's crazy.

434
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 2: We are thrilled to be back. We are with veteran

435
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 2: trial attorney Jarrett Farentino. He is answering all of our

436
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 2: burning legal questions. Body where we're starting.

437
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 4: Lane Maxwell, so Elaine Maxwell. She is has offered to

438
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 4: testify before Congress, but she insists on a lot of

439
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 4: you know conditions which seem very demanding to me, including

440
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 4: immunity and delayed timing before agreeing to appear. So they

441
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 4: want her to testify in front of Congress and you know,

442
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 4: name names, but she's saying, I will only if I

443
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 4: get immunity, and she has all these conditions. She was

444
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 4: convicted in twenty twenty one for sex trafficking and conspiracy

445
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 4: with Jeffrey Epstein. She is serving a twenty year federal

446
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 4: sentence and is appealing her conviction in the Supreme Court

447
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 4: because of this non prosecutorial agreement that Epstein had in Florida. Okay,

448
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 4: so there's an appeal in front of the Supreme Court,

449
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 4: and now she's trying to get some sort of immunity

450
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 4: through Congress. The House Oversight Committee, embroiled in public pressure

451
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 4: to open the Epstein related files, subpoena for her testimony

452
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 4: in August, amid by partisan demands for transparency. So she

453
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 4: has conditioned her willingness to testify on receiving formal immunity

454
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 4: from prosecution. That's one she insists the depositions not take

455
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 4: place in the prison where she's incarcerated in Tallahassee and

456
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 4: demands questions in advance to avoid surprise questioning. That's two.

457
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 4: She wants Congress to schedule her testimonily only after resolution

458
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 4: of her Supreme Court appeal. So after whatever the Supreme

459
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 4: Court decides, then she'll do it. I mean, like I said,

460
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 4: she's got a list of demands, and again that she's

461
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 4: doing all that based on her habeas petition in front

462
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 4: of the Supreme Court. Her attorneys reaffirm she will invoke

463
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 4: the Fifth Amendment if these conditions are not met. So

464
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 4: she is really playing chicken with Congress. It seems right.

465
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 4: What do you think about all this, Jared? No, Well,

466
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 4: I should add the most important piece. I forgot the

467
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 4: most important piece. I'm so sorry. The Oversight Committee has

468
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 4: firmly rejected granting immunity or clemency as a condition. That's

469
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 4: the most important thing I left off. What do you

470
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 4: think about this?

471
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 3: Well, look, this is all. We're not looking at more

472
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 3: prosecutions or her testifying against one person. This is all

473
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 3: in response to the mounting call for transparency on the

474
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: Epstein case, which has spanned a decade at this point,

475
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 3: and several manifestations of the doj What do I think.

476
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 3: I think we're playing a game of cat and mouse here.

477
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 3: They want her to testify. You've got to give her something.

478
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 3: You can't just blanketly say no to her conditions. So

479
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: for the Oversight Committee just to say no and dismiss

480
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 3: her her request. Look, he wants community. She's sitting in

481
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 3: jail for twenty years. She's the only one really who's

482
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 3: been a consequence for any of this Epstein stuff. Epstein

483
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: had a little charge that he basically got a slap

484
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 3: on the wrist four years ago. He was a waiting trial.

485
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 3: But really, Glene Maxwell not to say what she did

486
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 3: wasn't serious. But if they want her answers, she still

487
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 3: has the right to take the Fifth Amendment. They've got

488
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 3: to promise her immunity or she's going to button up.

489
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 4: So let's clear something up for myself and probably the

490
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 4: listeners too. When she says that she wants immunity, she's

491
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 4: not getting immunity for all her the things that she's

492
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 4: been convicted for already. Right, Like, they're not gonna they're

493
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 4: not going to pardon that. They're not gonna. She wants

494
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 4: she'll stay and she wants, well, no separately.

495
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 3: She's asking for a pardon. No, no, she's asking for

496
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 3: a pardon to be let out of jail for what

497
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 3: she's convicted of and insulation for prosecution from whatever crimes

498
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 3: get revealed in her testimony. That so it's it's prospective

499
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 3: and retrospective. So she and she she has leveraged. Otherwise

500
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: it's twenty years in jail and I just sit here,

501
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 3: which is my fate as I accepted it six months

502
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 3: to a year ago. Anyway, Wow, so this thought came back.

503
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 4: If they agree to this, she would be out.

504
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 3: She could potentially be out if they If that's been

505
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 3: and she that's what she's asking for.

506
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 2: And so Jared, she would get out. And then what

507
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 2: would be received is is the transparency. That's not to

508
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: say that's it, because I know the entire country has

509
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: been in an uproar, but that's all she would be given.

510
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 3: Correct, Well, we don't know what that transparency means. Does

511
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 3: it mean subsequent prosecutions of other individuals. That's why, by

512
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 3: the way, body, that's why the victims of her sex

513
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 3: trafficking case are so upset. They're saying, you're taking the

514
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 3: word of an accuse, perjurer or not convicted, and you're

515
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 3: going to give her a break on crimes where they were. Look,

516
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 3: she had victims. She was the body of the blinding

517
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 3: of that deal. Okay, she was part of these crimes.

518
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 3: And to say she's not as responsible as Jeffrey Epstein

519
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 3: is to negate her crimes. And that's what her victims

520
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: are saying, because she wants a break on everything.

521
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 4: I didn't realize that when she's asking for immunity. I

522
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 4: thought she was asking for immunity on things that she

523
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 4: was going to be testifying about. Not gone.

524
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 3: There's a part of her question in there too, which

525
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 3: is why those families are upset.

526
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: So what do you make of the fact. So again,

527
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: the Oversight Committee has firmly rejected the immunity or clemency.

528
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: So is that just a stalwart at that a deal?

529
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 4: Baker, I'm guessing.

530
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: I mean, well, look, it is the book ever closed

531
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 3: on Congress. Who knows right tomorrow it could be something else.

532
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 3: And the president has said. President Trump has said, no

533
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 3: one's asked me about this, and that was taken as

534
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: he's not interested in doing it. We don't know what's today, Thursday,

535
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 3: we'll do We'll see maybe Friday brings another.

536
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 2: Right, very fair, And then one more question about this,

537
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: And we may have honestly already talked about this, but

538
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: I don't know that we did with you. Her appeal

539
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: is about going back to Jeffrey Ebstein's two thousand and

540
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: eight case in Florida. How does that, which is a stakecase,

541
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: how does she stand a chance in her federal prosecution

542
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: that she's been prosecuted.

543
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 3: By because Jeffrey Epstein had a non prosecution agreement in

544
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 3: Florida with the government and Gallaine Maxwell may have been

545
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 3: part of that because of information he provided in that deal.

546
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 3: She's saying she is insulated from prosecution in New York

547
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 3: based on that non prosecution agreement in Florida. Lawn shot.

548
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 3: But when you got a written non prosecution agreement with

549
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 3: the Feds and you're sitting in federal prison, you might

550
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 3: as well take a shot.

551
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, the Supreme Court hearing it, there's got

552
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 4: to be something there, right.

553
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 3: Well, they're going to define maybe they're going to define

554
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 3: the confines of these deals.

555
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 7: You know, this is the.

556
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 3: Same thing that happened in Cosby, if you remember Bill

557
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 3: Cosby in a non prosecution agreement, not the same thing

558
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 3: with a DA an elected DA state DA in Pennsylvania.

559
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 3: A new DA came in and prosecuted him. The appellate

560
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 3: court said, whoa not so fast? Bill Cosby was let

561
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 3: out of the conviction was overturned because of that.

562
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: Oh that's a great point. I had not remembered that.

563
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for interesting and interesting.

564
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 4: We always learn stuff with Jared. I wish he was

565
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 4: here all the time.

566
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: I know.

567
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 4: Come on, I feel smarter already.

568
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: And hopefully you do too. This is true Crime tonight.

569
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 2: We're on iHeartRadio. We are speaking with veteran trial attorney

570
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: Jarrett Farantino. He has been helping us break down everything

571
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: from the Coburger case to Glane Maxwell. If you have

572
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 2: any questions legally for Jared Farantino, give us a call

573
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 2: eight eight eight three one Crime. Okay, Now, Jared, I

574
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 2: wanted to ask you about Sean Diddycombs. So this guy,

575
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: he filed a new bail motion and he's requesting release

576
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: on a fifty million dollar bond, and he's saying that

577
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:59,719
Speaker 2: his ex girlfriend Jane, who testified, basically provoked him and

578
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: that he shouldn't be at fault. What do you make

579
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 2: of this?

580
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 3: Well, like everything in this case, it's exceptional. And that's

581
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 3: the buzzword when we're looking at the latest bail request

582
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 3: of Diddy. You need to show exceptional circumstances to be

583
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 3: released on bail pre sentencing if you're incarcerated like Diddy is.

584
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 3: He's claiming he's not a flight risk. The sexual acts

585
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 3: were consensual and despite the fact that he is a

586
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 3: brutal domestic, Jane occasioned some of that violence too, So

587
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 3: it's not as bad as what the judge is saying.

588
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 3: That's the argument to say, give me fifty million dollar bail.

589
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 3: I'll put my house in Miami up as collateral. Reconsider

590
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 3: this request pending my October third sentencing. That's what he's

591
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 3: asking for.

592
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 2: Wow, and is that pretty stand like that could be?

593
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: Would any defendant put that? I mean, take the fifty

594
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: million dollars off the table, But would any any attorney

595
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: would they go down this route?

596
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's an understandable route to take. I mean,

597
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 3: you have a defendant who was convicted of the least

598
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 3: of the charges he was facing. You have a defendant

599
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: who has been incarcerated since the day he was arrested.

600
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 3: You have him willing to put up collateral. He's no

601
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 3: longer a flight risk, as lawyers are saying, he's not

602
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 3: facing the kind of jail time he was facing to

603
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 3: be deemed a flight risk at that point. So there

604
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 3: are reasons to lodge this reconsideration with a straight face.

605
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 3: So I could see it. I don't think Judge Seremanian

606
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 3: is going to He's not let Diddy out thus far?

607
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 3: Why stop? Now it's August, he's coming up on sentencing

608
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 3: in October, and he's going to get clipped. So I

609
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 3: think it's like earn your time.

610
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, well fair enough.

611
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 4: Today was the deadline for the prosecution to respond, wasn't it.

612
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? I did see. Yeah, I saw their response. Basically,

613
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: someone said that the only thing except know about his

614
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 3: cases as wealth, as violence, and his brazenness. I don't

615
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 3: know if it was in the written filing, but certainly

616
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 3: they're opposed to it.

617
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 4: They're not going to agree to of course not, of

618
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 4: course not. But Trump is saying that he would consider it,

619
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 4: right like Trump is more than open to partnering. Did

620
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 4: he but plans to wait for the judges ruling? Did

621
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 4: you guys hear that?

622
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 3: Yes? So so so again? Did he is fun because

623
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 3: he may get it's a huge deal. It's a huge deal,

624
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 3: you know. And again the President Trump has said he

625
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 3: would consider this pardon post conviction, while did he still

626
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 3: sitting in jail. It would be mind blowing of that.

627
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 4: But I mean, what you know, but what optics with

628
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 4: all this Epstein stuff going on, is that the smartest

629
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 4: thing for Trump to even say, like, I'm going to

630
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 4: let this do you know what I mean?

631
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 3: I mean, I just you never know what he's going

632
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 3: to say. It is their relatable case, people with great

633
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 3: wealth acting out on women. He's trying to say in

634
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 3: one sense, he wants nothing to do with Epstein. He

635
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 3: was a garbage person, but he's going to protect Titty

636
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: who's convicted. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

637
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: But like you said, it's Thursday, so let's see what

638
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 2: comes on Friday and the tomorrow follow Yes, I understand,

639
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 2: we have a talkback.

640
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 4: Can we hear he talk about Hi?

641
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 9: So I was reading that Karen Reid still hasn't gotten

642
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 9: her car back or her phone, which seems a little

643
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 9: weird considering it's been like a month since this all

644
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 9: went down. So I was just wondering if that's normal.

645
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, just as a refresher. Karen Reid, she was recently

646
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 4: acquitted in June of this year of second degree murder, manslaughter,

647
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 4: and leaving the scene of the death of her boyfriend,

648
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 4: Boston Police officer John O'Keefe. Though she was convicted of

649
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 4: operating a car under the influence and receiving one year probation,

650
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 4: she was not convicted of his death or being responsible

651
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 4: for his death. So what is the process for that, Jared?

652
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 4: What's the situation there? Is it evidence or is it not?

653
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 4: Do they keep it? Do they not? What's the situation?

654
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 3: Well, it is technically, but those are both major pieces

655
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 3: of evidence of course in the trial. If her attorneys

656
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 3: have simply requested their return, the DA's office is not

657
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 3: doing these folks any favors. They may require them to

658
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 3: file what's called a motion of return of property. And

659
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 3: that's a formal procedure where they say, here's the items,

660
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 3: these are the things we want returned. That gets the

661
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 3: tendency of a hearing over this, and a judge would

662
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 3: order those things returned in a case. Is like in

663
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: a case where I've had a firearm, for example, I

664
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 3: don't just really really hit a firearm back, I wait

665
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 3: for that motion to come in. There's a paper trail,

666
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 3: so they could be playing some games here or logistically

667
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 3: it's just a pain to get all this stuff back

668
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 3: to her in a short order. But I'm betting they're

669
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 3: just not willing to do her defense team a favor

670
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 3: without making them work a little bit.

671
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 2: I mean, i'd imagine after I mean, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts,

672
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: who all of my friend the dearest people in my

673
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 2: life live there. But they didn't look great in either

674
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 2: of these two trials. So yeah, they probably really don't

675
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: want to do Karen Readney favors. But what about I mean,

676
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 2: she has been you know, she has walked out, she

677
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: is not guilty, and it was her vehicle and it's

678
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 2: worth you know, sixty thousand dollars. Are you just out

679
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 2: of luck?

680
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 3: No, they should return, And I'm not saying they shouldn't.

681
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 3: I'm just saying they're probably going to make them way

682
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 3: as long as they can legally make them. They were

683
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 3: forced them to file a return of property motion, that's all.

684
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,479
Speaker 3: But they have no reason at this point to keep

685
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 3: that stuff. There's no ongoing investigation. She's already been sentenced

686
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 3: on the case and the charge she was convicted of,

687
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 3: which was just the driving under the influence. So to me,

688
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 3: they have no reason to keep that stuff nor legal

689
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:46,720
Speaker 3: right to keep it at this point either.

690
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 4: Right, They're they're defining this silence from the DA's office

691
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 4: as bewildering because she did file emotion to get the

692
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 4: stuff back, but the DA has not responded.

693
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 3: The judge will just force it then, Yeah, I think

694
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 3: that's right, or just for judge bev will sign an

695
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 3: order directing that these items be returned. And they're waiting

696
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 3: to be compelled to do any favors for Karen Reid.

697
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wonder if there's a is there bitterness there?

698
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 4: I think there's some bitterness there.

699
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 3: Attack.

700
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean but these are professional people, right,

701
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 4: like I mean they have I mean, you know you

702
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 4: were you were a prosecutor in veteran trial, a journey

703
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 4: like do you do you do harbor resentment when this

704
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 4: kind of thing happens?

705
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely?

706
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 2: Really? Ye take it personal.

707
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 4: Well, that's all attacked though personally, so I can see why.

708
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 2: Listen, Jared, thank you so much. It is always a

709
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: huge honor and pleasure to have you here and listen. Yeah,

710
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 2: everyone who wants more Jared who is everyone. He is

711
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 2: co host of the YouTube series Primetime Crime and host

712
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 2: of the podcast True Crime. Boss. Them both out until

713
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: next time, Jared, and later in the hour, we've got

714
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: more true crime stories we will be digging into. Keep

715
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: it here True Crime Tonight.

716
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 4: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we

717
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 4: talk true crime all the time. I'm Boddy Movin and

718
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 4: I'm here with True Crime producer Courtney Armstrong. Don't forget

719
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 4: if you miss any part of tonight's show, you can

720
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 4: always catch the podcast. We also want to hear from you,

721
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 4: so please give us a call at eighty eight eight

722
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 4: thirty one Crime, or get with us on our socials

723
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 4: at True Crime Tonight's Show on TikTok and Instagram, or

724
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 4: true Crime Tonight on Facebook. Later, we're going to be

725
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 4: digging into the really shocking case of the God's Misfits.

726
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 4: It's a shocking case where two moms were found in

727
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 4: an underground freezer. But now we're going to get into

728
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 4: some headlines from today. Courtney, what do we have?

729
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's quite a bit actually. In the Travis Decker case,

730
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,879
Speaker 2: the sheriff is warning that someone sympathetic to him maybe

731
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 2: providing assistance helping him remain at large.

732
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 4: So Travis would be sympathetic, DA I know.

733
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: Listen, Travis Decker. He's a thirty two year old, he's

734
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: a former military veteran, and he is desperately wanted and

735
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: has been being hunted in connection with the June second

736
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 2: murders of his three young daughters, all under the age

737
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 2: of ten. And this it's been a multi agency man

738
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: hunt and the US Marshals have been involved, but the search,

739
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 2: the leads have been dwindling. So as you said, Buddy,

740
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: who would who? I don't know, but the fact that

741
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 2: he remains at large, it leads the sheriffs to think

742
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 2: that potentially that's the case. Sheriff Morrison said, unless he's

743
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: accounted for, there's still potential that he could be alive

744
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 2: and still actively fleeing from us. Right now, we're in

745
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 2: a pretty leisurely time for our country that you could

746
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 2: be outdoors or our county and probably live comfortably. You know,

747
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 2: the weather's not.

748
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 4: And he's he's been through like the survival training is

749
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,479
Speaker 4: part of his job in that entary, so he knows

750
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 4: how to bait a hook and fish and all the things.

751
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 4: I don't know how to do you know, like he

752
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 4: can survive out there exactly.

753
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 2: He is very well, he is very well trained. But

754
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: you know, this is a warning that if someone is

755
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: sympathetic to Decker, he is wanted for killing his own

756
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 2: three daughters, and it's not a good look for someone

757
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 2: who may be aiding him knowingly or unknowingly. So I

758
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 2: don't know. And the authorities also mentioned they have no

759
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 2: evidence that he's acquired supplies or resources recently, so that

760
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: suggests to authorities that survival gets more unlikely without.

761
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 4: That help, right, But I mean, is there the chance

762
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 4: that there's like a mountain man out there somewhere that

763
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 4: maybe doesn't know about this story and is helping him,

764
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 4: you know it something like that, like some kind you know.

765
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 4: And I'm not saying like, you know, mountain men don't

766
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 4: know what's going on in the world. I mean, like

767
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 4: maybe somebody doesn't listen to the radio or read a

768
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 4: newspaper or have TV. You know, maybe there's somebody out

769
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 4: there like that that's kind of befriended him.

770
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, anything is possible at this point,

771
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 2: and he is still at large, So that's what's going on,

772
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 2: And we really just hope that he is found soon. Right,

773
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: what else have you been reading about?

774
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 9: Body?

775
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 4: Well, I've been yesterday I got alerted to this case.

776
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 4: There's a seven month old baby was found abandoned in

777
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 4: a front yard in Tennessee, and later that night, four

778
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 4: of her relatives, including her parents and her grandmother and uncle.

779
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 4: So those are those are the four people were discovered

780
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 4: murder and this prompted a homicide investigation. So on July

781
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 4: twenty ninth, deputies in Dyer County, Tennessee, respond wanted to

782
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 4: report of a baby girl left in a car seat

783
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 4: and a stranger's front yard near Tigret. The infant was

784
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 4: totally unharmed and identified as the child of Adriana Williams

785
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 4: and James Wilson. Okay, they're young, they're young parents. Later

786
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 4: that evening, the bodies of her parents, the two I

787
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 4: just mentioned, her mother, Courtney Rose, and her brother Bryden Williams,

788
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 4: fifteen years old, were found in Lake County, about twenty

789
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 4: five miles away. The authorities have confirmed all four deaths.

790
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 4: It's being treated as homicides. So here's what happened. Like, Yeah,

791
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 4: so a baby's dropped off at a yard. The homeowners

792
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 4: like what the heck calls the authorities. The authorities come

793
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 4: get the baby. They put out a bolo for mom

794
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 4: and dad, and then they find mom and dad murdered

795
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 4: in the woods, you know, with the baby's grandmother and

796
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 4: the baby's uncle. Now I say uncle, but the uncle's

797
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 4: only fifteen years old. This is a kid, right, So

798
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 4: your first thought is, Okay, the killer dropped off the

799
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 4: baby in the yard. Yeah right, absolutely, yes, like they

800
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 4: something happened. Don't know what, you know, but it's somebody

801
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 4: that did not want to kill a baby. And then

802
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,439
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about this fifteen year old, like, oh my god,

803
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 4: you killed a fifteen year old. But the fifteen year

804
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 4: old can talk. The fifteen year old can recognize somebody, right,

805
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 4: This is somebody they know, right, So it's just really sad.

806
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 4: So this happened around three o'clock on the twenty ninth.

807
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 4: The witnesses reported seeing her dropped off from a dark

808
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 4: van or a white suv, which is very interesting, but

809
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 4: those are the two cars I think that the mom

810
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 4: and dad drove, so that's just what they were looking.

811
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 4: Remember I said they put on a bowlo, right, And.

812
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 2: I was going to say it's very different a dark

813
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 2: van and a white well.

814
00:44:54,400 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 4: The authorities have identified a suspect, Austin Robert Drummond. He's

815
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 4: about twenty eight years old. He's the suspect charging him

816
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 4: with first degree murder, aggravated kidnapping, in multiple firearm defenses offenses.

817
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 4: He's considered armed and dangerous. He was last seen driving

818
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 4: a white twenty sixteen Audie A three with Tennessee plate

819
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 4: r I one eight nine six that has damage to

820
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 4: its driver side. Nearly a dozen agencies, including TBI, which

821
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 4: is the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, and the FBI, are

822
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 4: collaborating on the investigation, and the public is urged to

823
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 4: assist and look for him. Go to X type in

824
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 4: his name Austin Austin Robert Drummond so you can get

825
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 4: a picture of him.

826
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 7: He is.

827
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 4: He's got a violent history. He is not a good guy,

828
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 4: and he's accused of killing four people. And it's being

829
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 4: tossed around that this guy, Austin Robert Drummond was dating

830
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:04,760
Speaker 4: the mother the child's sisterm on so basically the baby's aunt.

831
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 4: He was dating the baby's aunt, but I don't think

832
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 4: that's confirmed as of yet. Okay, Okay, I've just seen

833
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 4: reports around socials about it.

834
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 2: And you have to wonder. I mean, thank god this

835
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 2: baby was found in this stranger's driveway, and also that

836
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 2: this stranger had the wherewithal to not be a creep

837
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: and do what every you know, good human should be,

838
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: which is called the authority. But that has to be

839
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: attempted murder. I would imagine leaving you can't leave. I

840
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 2: can't know a car for one minute. I don't know.

841
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 2: Actually I have no legal standing to say that, but

842
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 2: leaving a baby, I would imagine. I would imagine that

843
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: I can say with authority.

844
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 7: Wow.

845
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 4: So anyway, that's all I have on that. Just please

846
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 4: go look for the guy on social media X, Facebook, whatever.

847
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 4: Memorize his face if you're in the Tennessee area, keep

848
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 4: keep your eye for him.

849
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we will keep you updated. You're listening to

850
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 2: true crime tonight. We are talking true crime all the time.

851
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 2: Right now, we're talking about headlines we want to hear from.

852
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 7: You.

853
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 2: Join our conversation with really anything crime related you want

854
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: to speak about. Earlier, it was Jared Farentino, expert legal analyst,

855
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 2: and we were talking about coburger to Karen Reid to

856
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 2: Gillen Maxwell, and we will have more ahead. So another

857
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: thing I wanted to run past your body is we've

858
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 2: been talking about the Devil's Den State Park murders. So

859
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 2: there's an update. Yeah, a twenty eight year old Arkansas

860
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 2: school teacher has been arrested. He has been charged with

861
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 2: capital murder in the stabbing deaths of the married couple

862
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:58,479
Speaker 2: who were hiking with their daughters. And this happened actually

863
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 2: while we were on air. The information that has come

864
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 2: forth is about the suspect and that again he was

865
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 2: a school teacher. Also, DNA from the crime scene has

866
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 2: been confirmed to match James Andrew McGann, and allegedly he

867
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 2: had confessed during police interviews. Investigators also found items at

868
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 2: his home that were linked to the attack. So it

869
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 2: sounds it's early days, but it sounds like hopefully it's

870
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 2: the right guy with the strong case ahead.

871
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 4: So I was reading a tweet today from Brookes. I'm

872
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 4: sorry Brooke Taylor, she's a Fox News correspondent, and is

873
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 4: it oky if I go over what she said? Yeah,

874
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 4: please because it's kind of maybe speaks to motive and

875
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 4: is very scary. It says I spoke with a mother

876
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 4: of a former student of the suspected murderer, the guy

877
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 4: that we're talking about, accused of killing the couple in

878
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 4: Arkansas on the hiking trail with their two daughters. James

879
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 4: Andrew McGannon worked in Texas for Louisville as an elementary

880
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 4: school teacher. In twenty twenty three, a mother of one

881
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 4: of his former fourth grade students said her son came

882
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 4: home complaining that he McGann, the suspect, was inappropriate with

883
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 4: the girls students. Oh no, so she filed a complaint

884
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 4: with the superintendent. As a result, parents received a letter

885
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 4: from the district saying that he was placed on administrative

886
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 4: leave while the school investigated complaints of poor classroom management

887
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 4: and poor professionals judgment. The investigation found no evidence of

888
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 4: inappropriate behavior with the student, but they did find classroom mismanagement.

889
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 4: I don't know what that means.

890
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 2: That sounds that's tough because if you're reading this report,

891
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 2: because my first my knee jerk when you started explaining

892
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 2: that was, how in the universe is this man who

893
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 2: had complaints against him? How has he been rehired which

894
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 2: he had recently moved to Arkansas because he was hired

895
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 2: as a teacher Springsdale. That's right, he hadn't yet started

896
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 2: working with students. But if that's if that's what the

897
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 2: not paper trail. But if the allegation is mismanagement of

898
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 2: a classroom, I don't know.

899
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 4: What that means. So they found that there was this

900
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 4: mismanagement in professional judgment to be below the district's you know, expectations.

901
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 4: According to this letter the parents received shortly after he resigned,

902
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 4: so he wouldn't he wasn't let go. He resigned. He

903
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 4: then worked as an elementary school teacher in Oklahoma until

904
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 4: he resigned there, so he went from Texas to Oklahoma.

905
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 4: He resigned in Oklahoma in May to move to Arkansas.

906
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 4: He was scheduled to start next week in Springdale for

907
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 4: the upcoming school year, and now he's accused of capital murder.

908
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:10,720
Speaker 2: How so, oh, bring the information.

909
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 7: Taha, I'm just looking up.

910
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 10: Mismanagement of a classroom refers to a teacher's inability to

911
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 10: effectively create, maintain a productive, respectful, and safe learning environment.

912
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 10: It doesn't necessarily mean the teacher did anything illegal or abusive,

913
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 10: but it signals problems with organization, behavior, or control.

914
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 2: Right, which could I mean could be anything, could be anything,

915
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 2: there's crayons all over the floor.

916
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 4: Or there's did you guys see his lum shot?

917
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 7: Oh no, scary, I just saw it.

918
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 4: First of all, he got arrested while he was getting

919
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 4: a haircut. He still has the the you know that

920
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 4: cape they put on you that makes you look terrible. Yeah,

921
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 4: he still has the cape on. It is ridiculous.

922
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 2: Oh my god, just look it up.

923
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 4: He looks ridiculous. And he looks so mean, doesn't he?

924
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 4: I saw. I also saw his tender profile or his

925
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 4: like Okaycupid profile whatever. Oh my god, I don't. He

926
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 4: looks so mean. He looks so mean. I cannot imagine

927
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 4: him being a teacher to fourth graders.

928
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,760
Speaker 2: And how disgusting to have the wherewithal to say, Okay,

929
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 2: I have done this horrific thing. Let me go get

930
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 2: my hair done right.

931
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 4: Now, the hairstylistic right now. The hairstylist posted on Twitter

932
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 4: or on Facebook, and she was like, I can't believe

933
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 4: I didn't even finish his haircut.

934
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 2: Oh good lord. Well, do not forget. If you miss

935
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 2: any part of the show, you can always catch the podcast,

936
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 2: and we always always want to hear from you. You

937
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 2: make the show better and you help us shape it

938
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,399
Speaker 2: from everything you send in. You can call us eighty

939
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,240
Speaker 2: eight three to one Prime and you can get us live,

940
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: or if it's after hours, we have a voicemail set

941
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,919
Speaker 2: up like an old school nineteen eighties, so you can

942
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 2: leave that and the show. I mean, when's the last

943
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 2: time you had a voice saying hello? Or get with us?

944
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 2: On socials, we are at True Crime Tonight's show on

945
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 2: TikTok and Instagram and True Crime Tonight on Facebook. Courtney Armstrong,

946
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 2: I am here as always with crime analyst Body Moven,

947
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 2: and we are missing our beloved Stephanie Lidecker desperately. Hello Stephanie,

948
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 2: if you're listening, we miss you terribly. And now, Boddy,

949
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 2: we are moving on to something that you have followed

950
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 2: much more closely than I. So I may be peppering

951
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 2: you with questions, But what do I and everyone needs

952
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 2: to know about God's misfits?

953
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 4: Gosh? You know I started following this my friend Stephanie

954
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 4: Niho turned me onto it. There are two Kansas mothers,

955
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 4: Veronica Butler, she's twenty seven years old, and Jillian Kelly,

956
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 4: she's thirty nine. They disappeared in March of twenty twenty four.

957
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 4: They just vanished. They were on their way to uh

958
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 4: pick up Veronica's children for a birthday party. Okay, Veronica,

959
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 4: Veronica had did not have custody of her children. They

960
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,439
Speaker 4: were in the custody of her ex, and they were

961
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 4: on their way to his house, actually his mother's house,

962
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,760
Speaker 4: because he was in rehab at the time. The stories

963
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 4: are kind of insane. They were on their way to

964
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 4: the grandmother's house basically to pick up the kids for

965
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 4: a birthday party, and they vanished, so vanished in at

966
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 4: the air.

967
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 2: First of all, that's horrifying that they vanished, but also

968
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 2: so these poor children, their mother, Uh Veronica, I believe,

969
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 2: so she did not have custody, and then the father

970
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:43,280
Speaker 2: who did was in rehab.

971
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 4: Yes, oh, yes, tough spot. Oh it's a very tough spot.

972
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 4: So briefly, I'm just gonna go kind of briefly trying

973
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,280
Speaker 4: to There's a lot of twists and turns in the story.

974
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 4: It's kind of hard to tell, but I'm gonna do

975
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 4: my best. So they disappeared while driving through rural Oklahoma

976
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 4: to pick up the Butler's kids for the birthday party. Now,

977
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 4: this visit was supervised by Gillian Kelly, Gillian Kelly was

978
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 4: a pastor's wife. She volunteered to help you know, this

979
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 4: mother reunite with her children very like, I want to say,

980
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 4: a very godly and loving woman.

981
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:20,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

982
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 4: It sounds like a warm and wonderful human being to

983
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 4: do that. Okay, so amid Now listen. The grandmother, her

984
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 4: name is Tiffany Adams. That is the father's mother.

985
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 2: Yep, I with you.

986
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 4: They were in a really, really acrimonious custody battle. Veronica

987
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,839
Speaker 4: Butler and Tiffany Adams the grandmother. Okay, they're in a

988
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 4: very contentious Now. Wrangler is the father. Okay, Wrangler had

989
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,240
Speaker 4: full custody of the children, but again he was in rehab.

990
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 4: So his mom, Tiffany Adams, was watching the children and

991
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 4: her boyfriend Tad Cullum. Okay, they lived together, they're friends.

992
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 4: There's so many people in the story, you guys. I'm

993
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 4: so sorry. I need, I need. I wish I had

994
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 4: a visual chart to show you, right.

995
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 2: I know, we need some r.

996
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

997
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 2: Right.

998
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,840
Speaker 4: So they Tiffany Adams, who held custody of Butler's children

999
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 4: while her father was in rehab. Again, they were in

1000
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,399
Speaker 4: this custody battle from twenty nineteen. All the way until

1001
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 4: the time she disappeared, with supervised visits granted to Butler

1002
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 4: each Saturday. Now, the normal person that was, you know,

1003
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 4: scheduled to supervise these visits, Tiffany Adams, was the one

1004
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 4: that would schedule those. She dismissed that person. Okay, so

1005
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 4: that's suspicious, right, that's suspecially so Butler Veronica, the victim

1006
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 4: had to find somebody. That's why Gillian Kelly went so, okay,

1007
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 4: that's suspicious, right, red flag, red flag, And now they're missing.

1008
00:56:58,520 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 2: Wow.

1009
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 4: On April fourteenth, two weeks later, authorities found the women's

1010
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 4: remains buried in a chest freezer about eight miles from

1011
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 4: where their vehicle was abandoned. They found their vehicle on

1012
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 4: the side of a road. And this is like a

1013
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 4: really rural place of the country. If you go to

1014
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 4: Google Maps and you look at this area, there's nothing

1015
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 4: and there's just a car. So eight miles away, their

1016
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 4: bodies were buried in a chest freezer. Investigators discovered blood spatter,

1017
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 4: Butler's glasses, Veronica's glasses, a broken hammer, and a pistol

1018
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 4: magazine near the vehicle. So these two mothers go missing,

1019
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 4: and near the vehicle is a broken hammer, blood glasses,

1020
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 4: and a pistol magazine red flag number two right, red flag, yeah, right,

1021
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 4: and there's this contentious custody battle, like immediately you're going

1022
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 4: to go to this family, like what happened? What's going on?

1023
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

1024
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 4: Where's Veronica and Jillian? So an autopsy confirmed both victims

1025
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 4: died from multiple stab wounds and their bodies were concealed

1026
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 4: in the freezer.

1027
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 2: So sorry. So now have this abandoned car with the

1028
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 2: two women who ultimately are found in a chest, Veronica

1029
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 2: Butler and Jillie and Kelly, who's just there to help

1030
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 2: supervise the visit these poor woman's remains, and their cause

1031
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 2: of death is being stabbed, and yet by their abandoned

1032
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 2: car was a gun magazine and a broken hammer.

1033
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, and blood okay, but they were stabbed, okay. So

1034
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 4: there were four people charged with this crime, and it

1035
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 4: was of course Tiffany Adams, the grandmother, her boyfriend, Tad,

1036
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 4: friends of theirs, the column I'm sorry, the Twomblys, Cole

1037
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 4: and Cora. But there was a fifth person who people

1038
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 4: were looking for named Paul Grice, and he was later

1039
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 4: added as the fifth charge. All five are facing charges,

1040
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 4: including first degree murder kidnapping conspiracy. Now you might be

1041
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 4: asking yourself, because I would be what is this cult

1042
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 4: God's Misfits come into it?

1043
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 2: Right?

1044
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 4: What is this? What is just God's Misfits? So all

1045
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 4: of these people belonged or identified in some way with

1046
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 4: this fringe anti government religious sect called God's Misfits. All

1047
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 4: of them, which reportedly met weekly through the group's official leadership,

1048
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 4: later publicly distanced themselves. They're not part of our church anymore.

1049
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 4: These these people are killers, you know whatever. But they

1050
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 4: were all part of this local chapter of God's Misfits,

1051
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 4: which they're really kind of just anti government. Sovereign citizen

1052
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 4: but very into you know, Jesus and God and you

1053
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 4: know kings that are all really good. But I hated

1054
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 4: the government. In fact, Paul Gris wrote like this manifesto

1055
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 4: about how he is a sovereign citizen and he's not

1056
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 4: able to be convicted of anything because he's nationally I

1057
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 4: can't even explain somerersdons.

1058
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 2: Oh good grief, Okay, So he's saying, no, I don't

1059
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 2: want to be a part of this country, therefore I

1060
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 2: can't be charged because I consider myself a citizen.

1061
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 4: Well, they're natural born. I don't understand it. I really don't.

1062
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 4: I truly don't understand this anyway, So court Affi David's

1063
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 4: really revealed the group plotted to kill them by throwing

1064
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 4: an anvil from a truck in front of her like

1065
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 4: a cartoon, do you know what I mean? So there

1066
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 4: was going to be a truck in front of her

1067
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 4: as they're driving down this road in rural Oklahoma, and

1068
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 4: an anvill was going to fall out of the back

1069
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 4: of a truck and hit the windshield and kill them.

1070
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 2: That was wild Coyote was to be there with Grandma,

1071
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 2: her boy friend, the Cumeleys, and mister Grice, the non

1072
01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 2: citizen robby.

1073
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 4: Okay, so the grandmother, Tiffany Adams, purchased multiple prepaid burner

1074
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 4: phones and stun guns shortly before the murderers, and those

1075
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 4: were later found near the car in the crime scene.

1076
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 4: The planning extended over weeks and weeks and weeks, with

1077
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 4: holes dug in advance. Oh no, yes, so here, So

1078
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 4: here's how it laid out. The grandmother dismissed the normal

1079
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 4: lady that was supposed to do the supervised visitation because

1080
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 4: she knew she was going to kill them and she

1081
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 4: didn't want this witness. So she knew that Veronica was

1082
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 4: going to have to find somebody in a you know,

1083
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 4: completely innocent and they were going to kill them both.

1084
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:42,959
Speaker 2: Not only innocent, but someone who would take their own

1085
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 2: time right to help supervise a visit. You knew was

1086
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 2: going to be someone filled with kindness, right, Okay, So.

1087
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 4: Right now all five have been charged. Right now we're

1088
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 4: in the you know, all the pre trial motions and

1089
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 4: whatnot to some of the people that were arrested in

1090
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 4: connection with this crime. The Kara Twombly and Paul Grice

1091
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 4: have taken preemptive plea deals in exchange for testifying against others.

1092
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 4: And the transcript is available if you want to go

1093
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 4: read it. It's very interesting. I can't get into it

1094
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 4: now because there's so much. Yeah, we only have a

1095
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,200
Speaker 4: few minutes, but it's available online even go read it.

1096
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,919
Speaker 4: On November fifth, there will be an official arraignment where

1097
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 4: all five of them will present their official Please, they

1098
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 4: haven't even been arraigned yet. This is all very kind

1099
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 4: of new, even though it happened in twenty twenty four.

1100
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 4: The trials for each of them are tentatively set for

1101
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 4: early June of twenty twenty six. We are definitely going

1102
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 4: to be following up on it here because I am

1103
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 4: fascinated with this case and I wanted to bring it

1104
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 4: up because I want to start talking about it. I

1105
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 4: want to start talking about all these pre trial motions,

1106
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 4: and I kind of want to talk about what they

1107
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 4: said in their testimony against the other defendants. It's my

1108
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 4: understanding that Paul Grice, he is one of the ones

1109
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,959
Speaker 4: who is testifying against everybody else. He was the one

1110
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:06,439
Speaker 4: that was the most violent, so for him, for him

1111
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 4: to be testifying against the others is I really want

1112
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 4: to start talking about it. So well, that's why I

1113
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 4: wanted to kind of bring it up.

1114
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 2: I wonder, Okay, I'm so glad you did, and I

1115
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 2: am so edge of my seat and I'm.

1116
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 4: Hopefully hopefully you can follow it.

1117
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 2: There's a lot of players moving parts. There's a lot

1118
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 2: of players. I know, Grandma's real bad so really boyd

1119
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 2: friend and those and their friends, well and their three

1120
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 2: friends in this God midfit, God's misfits. I'm very interested

1121
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 2: to dig a little bit more. We should even before

1122
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 2: they go to trial, Like, let's just set aside sometime

1123
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 2: in the future and we'll go through and learn a

1124
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 2: little bit more about God's misfits.

1125
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 4: You know, it might be it might also be interesting

1126
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 4: to get like somebody who knows about the sovereign movement

1127
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 4: on TAHA, what do you think about that? Could we

1128
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 4: because listen, I don't really quite understand it all. I

1129
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 4: know that they basically can say they can do whatever

1130
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 4: they want. They can dry without a driver's license, they

1131
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 4: don't have to be in the car registered. You know,

1132
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 4: they can do whatever they want, but they can't be

1133
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 4: prosecuted for everything, and they are then they they're supposed

1134
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 4: to have some sort of maritime law. I'm not even kidding.

1135
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 4: They're supposed to have some sort of maritime I have.

1136
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 2: This so I can park anyway.

1137
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 3: I know.

1138
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, I see those two If you go.

1139
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 4: To Amazon, you see those If you go to Amazon,

1140
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 4: you can buy special license plates that that identify you

1141
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 4: as a sovereign citizen and they say that it's supposed

1142
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 4: to protect you from the police. But it's so funny.

1143
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 4: The reviews on those items are like, this didn't work.

1144
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 4: The police satterrested at me anyway. So I would really

1145
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 4: like to learn more about what their claims are, because

1146
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 4: you know, the guy listen, I'm gonna stop right now

1147
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 4: that I can hear I can hear the music, I'm gonna.

1148
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 2: Stopay, well, yeah, I'm I'm all in. And I feel

1149
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 2: like our beloved Stephanie might be buying what they're Oh

1150
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 2: I think she might.

1151
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 7: She loves it.

1152
01:04:56,120 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 4: Called right now. If you want to give us a

1153
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 4: call eighty eight thirty one crime, or send us a

1154
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:11,919
Speaker 4: talkback on the iHeartRadio AP, that would be great because

1155
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 4: guess what it is talkback time. We're going to jump

1156
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 4: right into some talkbacks. It's my favorite part of the

1157
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 4: night because I really just love like the surprise and

1158
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 4: the funness of them. Let's just jump right into it.

1159
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 4: Adams at Adam's Choice and Control Room, what do we

1160
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 4: got for us?

1161
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 11: Hey, lady Stephanie from Ohio. I just thought I would

1162
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 11: put a suggestion for it for the Virtual Watching Club

1163
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 11: to be Armchair Documentary Detective oh my, or it could

1164
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 11: be documentary armchair Detectives, and so it could be AD

1165
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 11: or Dad Club and that way it would be something

1166
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 11: that would be fun and short to say, and we

1167
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 11: all love a good definition, right all right? Thanks, ladies,

1168
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:53,920
Speaker 11: love the show.

1169
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 4: I love that one.

1170
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 9: I've already watched the Amy Branley documentary. But I still

1171
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 9: want to be a part of it cool club. So

1172
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 9: I've been thinking about names because you guys had a

1173
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,959
Speaker 9: call out about some ideas. So here are a few.

1174
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 9: I came up with, Docu Detectives, Beyond a Reasonable Club,

1175
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 9: the watch List, the Usual Suspects, and the Red String Society,

1176
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 9: you know, like Corkboard putting all.

1177
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 4: Them, the Red String Society stopping. Okay, I love all

1178
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 4: of these.

1179
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 2: I am dying over these. They're all so.

1180
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 4: The docu detectives, I love them.

1181
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 2: We're gonna we're going to keep them all on a

1182
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 2: list and then we're just I don't know, we'll have

1183
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 2: to go from there, but right now, I say every

1184
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 2: single one. Oh, they're also good. They're all so good.

1185
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 2: And I loved that the first talk back had an acronym.

1186
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 2: I loved an acronym and this.

1187
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 4: I also really like the Red String Society.

1188
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 7: That's so cool.

1189
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 2: It's like something I want to be a part of.

1190
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 4: I know you too, right, how did you get all those?

1191
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 10: I wrote them down, but I'm going to go back

1192
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 10: and listen to the podcast later and make sure I

1193
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 10: get them accurately.

1194
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:09,439
Speaker 7: Those are good.

1195
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 4: Keep them coming, maybe we can have like a contest

1196
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 4: or something.

1197
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 7: I know.

1198
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 10: I started thinking of some, but now mine feel really

1199
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 10: weak and compared. All right, just the concept of we're

1200
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 10: all going to be watching the same show, and so

1201
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 10: I had killer watch party.

1202
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, I like the listeners better.

1203
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 7: The listeners the betters. Yeah, I agree with you. My

1204
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 7: other option was true crime and chill that okay, I

1205
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:39,920
Speaker 7: like that.

1206
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 10: One, or Crime and rewind for those people who are

1207
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 10: you know, gen X or whatever.

1208
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 7: Okay, there you go.

1209
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 2: So oh instead of it took me a hot second

1210
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 2: instead of be kind.

1211
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 7: And rewind ye, Crime and rewind Yes, and chill too.

1212
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 4: It's very to Netflix and chill. Right, Yes, I see

1213
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 4: where your mind is.

1214
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 10: There was something there, but I actually agree the viewers

1215
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 10: of the audience has some much better, so keep them coming.

1216
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 2: Everybody like that's true crime and chill could honestly be

1217
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 2: depending upon who you would like to date, that's a

1218
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 2: really appealing offer for someone. Hey, you want to have

1219
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:22,759
Speaker 2: a true crime and chill.

1220
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 4: Listen, that's a way to get me to come over.

1221
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 2: I was gonna say that would be you know what

1222
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 2: I mean, Like you want let's tell me there's a

1223
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 2: good documentary I'm coming that little chill for me. The

1224
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 2: draw is slip.

1225
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 4: Into my DMS True Crime and chill in there.

1226
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 2: True Crime and Chill. Yeah, I love it. Okay, what

1227
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 2: do we have.

1228
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:45,920
Speaker 4: Next, Adam?

1229
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 12: Hey, guys, I am really looking forward to the new

1230
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 12: book slash Documentary Club that we're going to be starting

1231
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 12: here at True Crime tonight.

1232
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 13: And I actually have a request.

1233
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:56,679
Speaker 2: For you guys.

1234
01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 12: After the Amy Lynn Bradley Is Missing documentary. Netflix just

1235
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 12: released new tapes with a Killer Son of Sam. Yes,

1236
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 12: and you guys had kind of talked about David Berkwitz

1237
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 12: before in some of your previous episodes, so I thought

1238
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 12: that that might.

1239
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 13: Be a fun one for us all to watch.

1240
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 4: Thanks, guys, you better believe it. It's already on my list.

1241
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 4: I'm way ahead of you.

1242
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:20,639
Speaker 2: That is a great idea, and we will be keeping

1243
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 2: a list like definitely an actual list and adding to

1244
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:25,840
Speaker 2: it and maybe even voting on it as we go

1245
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 2: two different months. But that is a great call. It

1246
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,440
Speaker 2: was at the top of my queue on Netflix, unsurprisingly,

1247
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:36,759
Speaker 2: and I saw just the trailer and in the trailer

1248
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 2: it's police officers and they're in a car flanking him

1249
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:45,400
Speaker 2: and Son of Sam's about to get out, and he's like, oh,

1250
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 2: when I get out, there's going to be reporters there.

1251
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 2: Do you mind combing my hair? So that was that

1252
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:55,679
Speaker 2: guy's greatest concern as he's sitting with his hands behind

1253
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,719
Speaker 2: his back in the car. So great call. I'm already

1254
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 2: into it, but.

1255
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,879
Speaker 4: So into it. I'm so into it. And next week

1256
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 4: there's a new documentary coming out about Delphi. And if

1257
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 4: you know anything about me, I am that is my

1258
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 4: Roman Empire. Delphi is my Roman Empire case. We all

1259
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 4: have one, right, we all have that one case, and

1260
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 4: Delphi is mine. And there is a new documentary coming

1261
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 4: out from ABC called Capturing Their Killer The Girls on

1262
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,559
Speaker 4: the high Bridge, And so I'm going to add that

1263
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,240
Speaker 4: to our list as well, because I think we want

1264
01:10:32,280 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 4: to do a whole breakdown of Delphi at one point.

1265
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:37,080
Speaker 4: It's probably coming up pretty soon.

1266
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 2: I think we Yeah, I think honestly it might even

1267
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 2: be a night. It's so and I know it's going

1268
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 2: to be a night.

1269
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1270
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,679
Speaker 2: I know this has been your case and it's kind

1271
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 2: of it's a.

1272
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 4: Really long story and it's it's just not something I

1273
01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:51,639
Speaker 4: can cover in a segment. Taha and I were talking

1274
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 4: earlier today about maybe doing a whole show on it.

1275
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:59,680
Speaker 4: So maybe maybe when we do that, I'm going to

1276
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 4: be a town in a few weeks and I'm gonna

1277
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 4: probably watch it with Indy when I'm with her. But yeah,

1278
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:08,880
Speaker 4: I mean, it's listen. I'm really excited for this. The

1279
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 4: family is in this, and also Kathy is in this.

1280
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 4: Who is Richard Allen's wife. He is the convicted person

1281
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:17,759
Speaker 4: in this case, but there's a lot of doubts surrounding

1282
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 4: his guilt.

1283
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 2: So interesting. So the family of the victims and the

1284
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 2: wife of the.

1285
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:29,720
Speaker 4: Suspect not together obviously, I mean separate. But yeah, it's

1286
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 4: going to be an interesting documentary. I'm really looking forward

1287
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 4: to it. So that comes out August fifth, so that's

1288
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 4: also going to be on our list, so maybe we

1289
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 4: can do a couple of months.

1290
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 7: We're going to have to the list.

1291
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 4: I'm excited for this, you guys, give a look.

1292
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 2: You know. One more thing I do want to throw

1293
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:46,640
Speaker 2: out because I think and this is going to I

1294
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 2: think Monday's show. Taha, who runs everything really is in

1295
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 2: charge of all of us. We have a guest coming

1296
01:11:55,640 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 2: up and we're going to be talking about a document

1297
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 2: Take a second, Actually, why don't we go to one

1298
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:06,920
Speaker 2: more talkback, Adam, and then we'll get back to Taha,

1299
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:08,599
Speaker 2: because I want to talk about this for a second.

1300
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,280
Speaker 13: Hey, this is my first talk back. I been listening

1301
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 13: to you all for so long and excited to have

1302
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:17,599
Speaker 13: something on a regular basis with all three of you,

1303
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 13: but also excited to hear y'all feedback on the docu

1304
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:24,439
Speaker 13: series for Ammy Bradley and kind of thinking if it's

1305
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:27,920
Speaker 13: something that y'all make an additional kind of segment, something

1306
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 13: like True Prime Docudive. I think that'd be great. Thank you,

1307
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 13: hear y'all thoughts, and keep on listening.

1308
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 4: I like that name too, true Crime.

1309
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:43,720
Speaker 2: I want everyone listening to help title everything. Do you

1310
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:47,000
Speaker 2: know how hard as someone as a producer who has

1311
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:49,920
Speaker 2: to title these things or work in a team. I

1312
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 2: mean the amount of time energy people throw, like and

1313
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 2: these are.

1314
01:12:55,960 --> 01:13:00,599
Speaker 4: All so good telling you the power of crowdsourcing. This

1315
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 4: is this is a this is a tribute to that, right.

1316
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:05,160
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm pretty I'm a pretty smart gal, but

1317
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:08,360
Speaker 4: I'm an I'm very analytical. I'm not very creative, so

1318
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 4: that's why I have to do these call outs like, hey,

1319
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 4: I need help with creative and look how good these

1320
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:12,759
Speaker 4: people are.

1321
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 7: It's fantastic.

1322
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:16,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, Adam from Control Room says this is better than

1323
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 4: chat GPT.

1324
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 2: I that's how praise. That's high praise. I totally agree

1325
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 2: when I have to say as a so to counter

1326
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:26,800
Speaker 2: that a little bit because I as a creative which

1327
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think I'm a little both braid.

1328
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 2: You're pretty creative, pretty creative. Yeah, So as that, I

1329
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:40,479
Speaker 2: actually rebuke chat GPT for sort of writing I really do. Yeah,

1330
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 2: but you guys are really the sauce.

1331
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 3: I like it.

1332
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 4: Did you did you figure out what it was the documentary?

1333
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 7: I did?

1334
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 10: So we are going to be talking about the Netflix

1335
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 10: documentary it's called A Deadly American Marriage.

1336
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,280
Speaker 7: Yes, and I think you know a little bit about this.

1337
01:13:58,400 --> 01:13:58,600
Speaker 3: I do.

1338
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 10: But we have someone who's actually involved with the show

1339
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 10: that's going to be on He's going to be a guest.

1340
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 7: So we're going to dig into that Netflix show. What

1341
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 7: do you know about it? Because I'm reading I'm not

1342
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:11,000
Speaker 7: going to tell you. You're not going to spoil it.

1343
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 2: Oh, well, it's really good if anyone because actually we

1344
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 2: have homework, very very exciting. Homework is the best job

1345
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 2: in the world that we get to do. That, but

1346
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:25,679
Speaker 2: we'll be watching it and again we'll be talking about

1347
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 2: it with a pivotal guest who's attached. So if you

1348
01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:32,240
Speaker 2: watch it or have, you should start with your talk

1349
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:35,559
Speaker 2: backs and we'll have an expert on Monday, you know.

1350
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 2: So say the title again and where people can find it.

1351
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 4: Please.

1352
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 10: It is called A Deadly American Marriage and it's a

1353
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:45,640
Speaker 10: new Netflix true crime documentary.

1354
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:46,559
Speaker 4: So it's really good.

1355
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 7: Everyone watch it, and we're going to circle back to

1356
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:49,599
Speaker 7: this on Monday.

1357
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 4: We have somebody very prominent in the case, right, I'm

1358
01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 4: not going to say who, but very prominent in the

1359
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 4: case and who knows everything about it, and they're going

1360
01:14:57,320 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 4: to be on the show.

1361
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 2: But again, between now and Monday, you need something fantastic

1362
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:03,400
Speaker 2: to watch.

1363
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, we're going to have any free time with all

1364
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 10: these documentaries I've got, I know, but these are great ones,

1365
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 10: I know.

1366
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:13,160
Speaker 4: So what do you what do you do for your Jaball?

1367
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 4: I watch Netflix?

1368
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, we're so kind of a dream, I know,

1369
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:25,280
Speaker 2: And do get to talk to people like Jarrett Fiorentino.

1370
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 4: Like Joseph Joseph I know.

1371
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:33,360
Speaker 2: Our beloved Joseph at Morgan are forensic expert and actually

1372
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 2: he will be with us. He will be with us

1373
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:39,680
Speaker 2: on Sunday, as he often is.

1374
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:42,599
Speaker 10: Yes, we've got some good ones. On Sunday with him.

1375
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 10: We're going to be talking about Jim Jones, which for

1376
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:48,719
Speaker 10: a lot of people who don't know that whole story.

1377
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:50,800
Speaker 10: And I know, body you first introduced me to a

1378
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 10: lot about that one. We're going to dig a little

1379
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 10: bit more into everything that's Brian.

1380
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:57,360
Speaker 7: Colberger, so of course evidence that's coming out.

1381
01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 4: I already sent like six emails to Joseph with my question, Yes.

1382
01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:02,679
Speaker 10: This, I think that's going to be good. And there's

1383
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:06,280
Speaker 10: a really kind of disturbing and sad story that's happened

1384
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:09,680
Speaker 10: in Ireland where they're uncovered a lot of the remains

1385
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,040
Speaker 10: of some I'll just leave it at that.

1386
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,480
Speaker 7: They've uncovered hundreds of bodies.

1387
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 10: And I'm just going to leave it at that. But

1388
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 10: it's a mystery that dates almost decades.

1389
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:21,599
Speaker 7: Wow. So it's a really good one.

1390
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1391
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 2: And Joseph's really passionate and man, when he's passionate about

1392
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:27,640
Speaker 2: a case, to hear him tell it in that gorgeous

1393
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 2: Southern drawl.

1394
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:29,120
Speaker 7: I know.

1395
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Between him and his wife Kim, there are two

1396
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:35,479
Speaker 2: of the most like delifluous voices out there.

1397
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 4: So that was a fifty cent word. Okay, look at you.

1398
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:40,719
Speaker 2: Oh it's very well. He deserves a fifty cent word,

1399
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan.

1400
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 4: He does. He's probably so annoys me with all my emails.

1401
01:16:45,439 --> 01:16:47,800
Speaker 4: You guys don't even understand how I email him all

1402
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:50,760
Speaker 4: the time. I saw this in this autopsy report? Does

1403
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:52,920
Speaker 4: this mean I did this? And he makes me smarter?

1404
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 7: You know what I mean?

1405
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 4: If you ever hear me talking about like forensic medical stuff,

1406
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:00,760
Speaker 4: it's because Joseph.

1407
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, he is one of our favorites. I can't

1408
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 7: get enough of him. If he comes every day, I

1409
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 7: would be happy to have that because.

1410
01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:13,880
Speaker 2: He's always always. As a reminder, if you have missed

1411
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 2: any part of the show, you can always catch the podcast,

1412
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,439
Speaker 2: and we also want to hear from you so you

1413
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:22,400
Speaker 2: can get us on socials. We are at True Crime

1414
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 2: Tonight's show on TikTok and Instagram, as well as True

1415
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 2: Crime Tonight on Facebook, and you can always call us

1416
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:34,120
Speaker 2: during the show to get us live and together eight

1417
01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:36,760
Speaker 2: eight eight three one crime, or you can call that

1418
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 2: number if you're hearing this on the podcast, because you

1419
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:41,400
Speaker 2: can leave a voicemail and then it's the same thing

1420
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 2: and you're on the show. And actually, right now we

1421
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:46,759
Speaker 2: have a message to get.

1422
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 14: To Hey, ladies, love the show. In reference to bk

1423
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 14: being so stoic and non responsive, it gave me that

1424
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:05,160
Speaker 14: Michael Myers feeling when the doctor doctor Loomis said there's

1425
01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 14: nothing in there, he doesn't feel anything. I just thought

1426
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 14: i'd share it.

1427
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 4: Oh, that's a really good reminder of that. Yeah, he

1428
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 4: did say that in that movie. It's very very astute observation.

1429
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 2: It's super apt and right, listen, we agree, well, I

1430
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 2: won't speak for a body but no, so that it's yeah,

1431
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 2: and that it's worth looking into. And we had kind

1432
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 2: of brought it up the other day. But next week

1433
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:37,760
Speaker 2: we are planning to have a body language expert dig

1434
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:43,640
Speaker 2: into Brian Koberger. Yeah, because his demeanor has you know,

1435
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 2: so much has been said of it.

1436
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 4: Throughout the even at the premotion trial in hearings or

1437
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:53,639
Speaker 4: trial premotion hearings. He's been pretty stoic. He's never really

1438
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:57,720
Speaker 4: showed an emotion that we've really ever seen. Right, So

1439
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 4: we're gonna have We're gonna have somebody a next week.

1440
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 4: We're really excited We're going to go through all this

1441
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 4: footage and talk about, you know, his lack of emotion

1442
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:07,639
Speaker 4: and what it means is what his little twitches mean,

1443
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:11,920
Speaker 4: what his eye blinks mean, all those nuances that we notice.

1444
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:14,599
Speaker 2: And then let's see, you know, how long they're how

1445
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 2: much time they're willing to give us, because honestly, I'd

1446
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 2: love to get into a little bit of Karen Reid

1447
01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:25,479
Speaker 2: because Karen Read's affect split the nation in half.

1448
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 4: That's a good one.

1449
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 2: So anyway, thank you very much for the talkback, and

1450
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 2: I believe we have one more.

1451
01:19:32,479 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 11: My name is Kelly from Miami.

1452
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 15: Thirty seconds is not enough, but I'll try. I'm wondering

1453
01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:39,920
Speaker 15: if you guys can talk about the four people that

1454
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:43,519
Speaker 15: are murdered have been murdered in Tennessee and the baby

1455
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 15: that was left. Oh my god, he was abandoned by

1456
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:50,320
Speaker 15: that murder. I mean, thank god he didn't kill the baby.

1457
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 15: But there's so much to this story, and I don't

1458
01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 15: think enough people are talking about it, so I would

1459
01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:59,160
Speaker 15: love to hear you guys' thoughts.

1460
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, we just covered that. I'm really glad that you

1461
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:05,360
Speaker 4: left the talk back because it's going to give me

1462
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 4: a chance to remind everybody of who to look for.

1463
01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 4: The suspect, Austin Robert Drummond. He is wanted. The US

1464
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 4: Marshall Service has put out a wanted poster. I'm going

1465
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:19,080
Speaker 4: to direct you to the X account of the US

1466
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:26,440
Speaker 4: Marshall Service in Memphis. It's us MS Memphis at us

1467
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:29,840
Speaker 4: MS Memphis so you can get a good look at him.

1468
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:35,439
Speaker 4: He's driving a twenty sixteen white Audie with Tennessee license plates.

1469
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 4: So go to Twitter X whatever you want to call it,

1470
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:40,000
Speaker 4: I still call it Twitter. I'm old. I'm never going

1471
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 4: to change and go to us MS Memphis. But yeah,

1472
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 4: that's very sad story. Obviously there's some kind of relation there.

1473
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:54,920
Speaker 4: It's being discussed that he, the killer in this case,

1474
01:20:55,439 --> 01:21:00,719
Speaker 4: was dating the sister of one of the victims, right

1475
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:03,280
Speaker 4: allegedly thanks this, Yeah.

1476
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:07,599
Speaker 2: It's all, but what the information that body? And I'm

1477
01:21:07,640 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 2: so grateful that you shared it once more because honestly,

1478
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:13,479
Speaker 2: that's part of what we want to do, is we

1479
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 2: want to be useful and good humans in this community

1480
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 2: that we all share together and all be on the

1481
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:24,439
Speaker 2: lookout for each other and for the monsters who are

1482
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 2: out there. So, you know, here's to hoping he has

1483
01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:31,840
Speaker 2: caught before. We are back and thank you so much

1484
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:35,320
Speaker 2: for tonight and everyone. Yeah, that stuff says, be safe,

1485
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 2: be good, and we'll see you tomorrow.