Speaker 1: Hi, Hi. First thing I have to ask is how
Speaker 1: are you.
Speaker 2: I'm okay. I'm hanging in there.
Speaker 3: It's been a whirlwind, it's been chaos, but I've taken
Speaker 3: some time to myself to reflect and try to understand
Speaker 3: my actions, and I finally have come to the place
Speaker 3: where it makes sense to me.
Speaker 1: Wow, so quieting all the noise going away, disconnecting really
Speaker 1: gave you, and getting help really gave you clarity.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I part of the reason why I wanted to
Speaker 3: take some time away, It's just because it was so
Speaker 3: chaotic and loud, and there was such vitriol online. But
Speaker 3: then the other part of the reason why I wanted
Speaker 3: to go to a treatment facility was to understand my behaviors.
Speaker 3: And my goal was to really get down to the
Speaker 3: bottom of Okay, why am I choosing men that are unavailable?
Speaker 3: Why do I keep finding myself in unhealthy relationships? What
Speaker 3: are the things that I need to change about my behavior?
Speaker 3: And in knowing that I needed to make a change,
Speaker 3: I first had to know what it was that leads
Speaker 3: to those behaviors. So the place of wounding.
Speaker 1: I used to have a therapist that called it my
Speaker 1: place of wounding, Like whatever your thing is in your
Speaker 1: life that just holds you back. So how did we
Speaker 1: get here? From your perspective? Because I never I've never
Speaker 1: watched vander Pump Rules until I took interest in you.
Speaker 1: I saw clips online and in the back of my
Speaker 1: head had an opinion about what was going on, and
Speaker 1: it seemed disproportionate to me. I was watching clips on
Speaker 1: social media and hearing about this scand of all that
Speaker 1: had a name was being marketed and it was being
Speaker 1: pumped through the PR machine, and I did say everyone,
Speaker 1: I think I made one comment about it, saying, everybody's
Speaker 1: going to be more well known than they were before
Speaker 1: because of this. And my mind was, they're on a
Speaker 1: reality show. It's set in a bar, was what. I think.
Speaker 1: It's fueled by alcohol and partying and multiple affairs. So what, respectfully,
Speaker 1: what the hell is the big deal that everyone's talking about,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't watch. I just saw online being like,
Speaker 1: what this is so gigantic, Like the guy, the girl
Speaker 1: wasn't married, the couple wasn't married, no one had kids,
Speaker 1: like so that was just in the back of my mind,
Speaker 1: not knowing you, not knowing the show, and I started
Speaker 1: to talk about this reality reckoning and this concept that
Speaker 1: was just an off the cuff thing that I said
Speaker 1: about exploitation without compensation, and I said, your name just
Speaker 1: as an example of what I imagined to be somebody
Speaker 1: who had been exploited and for the rest of your life,
Speaker 1: that content will be out there without compensation. And that
Speaker 1: was like where I left it, and that's so. And
Speaker 1: then your representative reached out to me, so that was like,
Speaker 1: that's my perspective, and I wanted to know what your
Speaker 1: side was.
Speaker 3: It's so nice to have you validate that experience, because
Speaker 3: for a moment, I thought I was going crazy. And
Speaker 3: it's true reality TV is it's edited, it is contrived
Speaker 3: to create a certain storyline, and so it's not all factual.
Speaker 3: So as a viewer tuning in, it's easy to get
Speaker 3: wrapped up and then the concept of an affair hits home.
Speaker 2: It's really hard to a lot of people.
Speaker 3: So I think there was a lot of projection happening,
Speaker 3: a lot of emotions that came up for people, and
Speaker 3: unfortunately I was the punching bag for a lot of that.
Speaker 3: I do want to take a moment, though, to I
Speaker 3: do want to take a moment to just acknowledge the
Speaker 3: hurt that I brought to a lot of people. I
Speaker 3: was not careful in my actions and I was not
Speaker 3: thinking long term. I was completely wrapped up in heartbreak
Speaker 3: and wanting to get certain needs met. Looking back now,
Speaker 3: I can see that I was still healing from a
Speaker 3: relationship from somebody who I thought I was going to marry,
Speaker 3: and in ending that I still haven't healed yet. So
Speaker 3: when I was filming, I was drinking a lot to
Speaker 3: ease that anxiety, and in a reality TV environment, I
Speaker 3: wasn't getting that safe space for me to express my
Speaker 3: emotions in a healthy way.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I often say the game is moving
Speaker 1: too fast, and people say to me, to you, didn't
Speaker 1: you sign up for this? And we're going to get
Speaker 1: into that, But it's very difficult for anyone, including even
Speaker 1: someone close to it like an Andy Cohen, to understand
Speaker 1: what it's like to be on a reality show. It
Speaker 1: seems like a great idea to drink because everything's moving
Speaker 1: so fast and there are cameras and you might say
Speaker 1: something and you're in your head knowing you've said or
Speaker 1: done something that's bad, but nobody stops down. So it's
Speaker 1: like when you see those fast flashes in Tokyo or something.
Speaker 1: Everything is coming at you so quickly and it's hard
Speaker 1: to stop down. And then you also don't know what's
Speaker 1: going to be manufactured in the kitchen and served. So
Speaker 1: while what you're doing is real, it's real what's happening
Speaker 1: in the moment, but it's a manufactured scenario because you
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily be associating with all of these people having
Speaker 1: these conversations, and it's a circular reference. So I really
Speaker 1: I understand, I mean, and your show is way crazier,
Speaker 1: way younger, way more alcohol, So I get it. So
Speaker 1: how does it feel to be able to just tell
Speaker 1: your story with your own voice? Right?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it feels like I have this opportunity
Speaker 3: to share how much I've grown and how hard I'm
Speaker 3: trying to be a better person.
Speaker 2: That person that I saw.
Speaker 3: Watching back on my TV was someone who's completely out
Speaker 3: of character from who I truly am, and so I
Speaker 3: feel like having this opportunity to share my side of
Speaker 3: the story and to represent myself in a way that
Speaker 3: I feel like is true to who I am, is
Speaker 3: all I could ever ask for.
Speaker 1: So you were born Rachel, and then at some point
Speaker 1: you didn't legally, but you just wanted to be called Raquel,
Speaker 1: and now you're going back to Rachel. What is the
Speaker 1: big problem with that? What is it? Because I see
Speaker 1: so many people that have stage names, or you lived
Speaker 1: in la or on a TV show. Maybe you wanted
Speaker 1: to have a different identity. What is the big problem
Speaker 1: and what is the truth about that?
Speaker 3: So I changed my name to Raquel in first grade.
Speaker 3: There's a few other Rachel's in my class, and I
Speaker 3: wanted to be special, right. I also feel like, deep
Speaker 3: down I wasn't comfortable in my own skin. I wanted
Speaker 3: to be somebody better in my eyes, So Raquel was
Speaker 3: a way for me to kind of be that person.
Speaker 3: The name has stuck ever since. My friends are always
Speaker 3: called me Raquel and my family called me Rachel, so
Speaker 3: I respond to both. During therapy, we were doing some
Speaker 3: inner child work where you typically write with your left hand,
Speaker 3: and my therapist asked me to write my name on
Speaker 3: the whiteboard and I wrote Rachel and she was like, interesting,
Speaker 3: I see.
Speaker 2: You as Rachel.
Speaker 3: To your core, You're going by Raquel, which is okay,
Speaker 3: but it's not true to who you are.
Speaker 2: It's a wall that you have.
Speaker 3: A persona it's I mean, maybe I feel like most
Speaker 3: of my life I've been afraid. I've had I've struggled
Speaker 3: with social anxiety, I've struggled with judgment from other people.
Speaker 3: So having a fear of vulnerability makes sense. So I'm
Speaker 3: really just trying to come back to my roots. And
Speaker 3: I am introducing myself as Rachel Nice.
Speaker 1: So nice, Okay, Well, welcome Rachel. I want to know
Speaker 1: about your family, like who got you through this? And well, actually, first,
Speaker 1: are you close with your family? Have you always been
Speaker 1: close with your family?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I have. Yeah, I'm very close with my family.
Speaker 3: My parents are still married and we have.
Speaker 2: A really tight knit family. You know, my mom is
Speaker 2: a little bit she's a mama bear.
Speaker 3: She's very torn up about this situation, and she says
Speaker 3: that she relates to you a lot. Whatever you're saying online.
Speaker 3: She's like, yeah, Bethany gets it, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really hard for her, and I feel that
Speaker 3: pain for her because I put our family in this situation.
Speaker 3: That's a very hard dynamic to navigate. But she's been
Speaker 3: so supportive and both my parents have been They were
Speaker 3: able to make this treatment happen for me, and I'm
Speaker 3: so blessed that I had that opportunity to go and
Speaker 3: to extend into ninety days because I knew I wasn't
Speaker 3: ready to leave yet. I knew I had more work
Speaker 3: to do, and I just feel so lucky that I
Speaker 3: was able to learn about myself at such a young age.
Speaker 1: In retrospect, Wow, that's so that's very It's so true.
Speaker 1: You could be my daughter. I've thought about that many
Speaker 1: times in watching the reunion, which we're going to get into,
Speaker 1: and I thought about, I would probably be in jail
Speaker 1: for murder if I were your mom, Like I was
Speaker 1: wondering if you were feeling guilty for quote unquote putting
Speaker 1: them through this. Absolutely, yeah, because that probably took a
Speaker 1: toll on your whole family. And what about your childhood
Speaker 1: friends and what's been that like, like your whole real infrastructure.
Speaker 3: My childhood friends are the only people that I can
Speaker 3: talk to and trust. Unfortunately, there have been so many
Speaker 3: betrayals of friendships who I trusted and disclosed confidential information
Speaker 3: to thinking that they would hold that value of keeping
Speaker 3: it in the vaults, and then they turn around and
Speaker 3: disclosed those things to the press. And it's been really
Speaker 3: difficult to accept that I don't have friends in LA anymore.
Speaker 1: Has anyone defended you.
Speaker 3: There's a few people that have, but most of the
Speaker 3: people that weren't posting negative things online were getting harassed
Speaker 3: to you post something. And one of my friends reached
Speaker 3: out and said, I'm so sorry, I have to unfollow
Speaker 3: you because I'm getting such hate for even following you.
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, So let me just read really quickly or
Speaker 1: Instagram apology. You said, I want to apologize my actions
Speaker 1: and my choices, foremost to Arianna and to my friends
Speaker 1: and the fans so invested in our relationships. There's no excuse.
Speaker 1: I'm not a victim. I must own my actions, and
Speaker 1: I deeply regret hurting Ariana. In the time since this
Speaker 1: came to light, I'm reflecting on my choices, speaking to
Speaker 1: a counselor, and I'm learning things about myself, such as
Speaker 1: my patterns of codependency and addiction to being and feeling loved.
Speaker 1: You said that you sought validation through intimate connections and
Speaker 1: that you've began counseling, and kind of what you said before.
Speaker 1: So was this whole apology? Is this whole apology as
Speaker 1: accurate now coming out of treatment as it was then
Speaker 1: did you feel like you had to say this because
Speaker 1: the you just had to say something? And is this
Speaker 1: a full authentic apology based on where you are now?
Speaker 3: Yes, I still stand by that apology.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 3: Full circle in a way, talking about that need to
Speaker 3: be validated and that wanting to be loved there it
Speaker 3: took me a while to accept, but I learned about
Speaker 3: love addiction, and it's a real thing. It's where you
Speaker 3: confuse intensity for intimacy.
Speaker 1: The pheromones and the oxytocin and all those things that
Speaker 1: I called oxytosin that yeah.
Speaker 3: And those chemical changes in the brain are the same
Speaker 3: chemical changes that happens when you take drugs. So it
Speaker 3: is addictive and it explains why I couldn't stop seeing
Speaker 3: this person, But it also doesn't excuse the fact that
Speaker 3: it happened.
Speaker 2: But now I know better, and.
Speaker 1: Also it went okay. So I I remember planning a
Speaker 1: wedding on a reality television show, and I don't know
Speaker 1: that I would have done that if I weren't on
Speaker 1: a reality television show. Everything's bigger, Like I said, the
Speaker 1: train is moving, the train has left the station, and
Speaker 1: everybody's talking to you, and there's so much messaging. So
Speaker 1: you're in this flurry and we'll get into this, but
Speaker 1: it feels like that environment that you were in celebrates
Speaker 1: affairs and scandal. It seems like that show is thriving
Speaker 1: because of that. So it seems like you're in a
Speaker 1: world where that's all kind of It's bad in normal life,
Speaker 1: but there with producers and everybody, that's good. An affair
Speaker 1: is great for TV.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and with the cast, it's almost been normalized in
Speaker 3: a way. And so as I'm looking up to my
Speaker 3: fellow cast members and seeing them as role models and
Speaker 3: like how to make a good reality TV show because
Speaker 3: I want to do my job, Well, it's uncanny to
Speaker 3: see the I hate that this specific affair brought up
Speaker 3: in people when almost every single one of the cast
Speaker 3: members have.
Speaker 2: Been in an affair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just hit sideways somehow that you were in
Speaker 1: the perfect storm. And I'm not saying that you weren't responsible,
Speaker 1: and you're accepting I think at least partial responsibility. But
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on. So I want to just
Speaker 1: talk about the facility before we get into the show.
Speaker 1: So what happens. We can get into the reunion after,
Speaker 1: but you leave a reunion and then what happens you
Speaker 1: walk out of this reunion that I have since seen?
Speaker 1: How do you get into a facility and how does
Speaker 1: this all transpire?
Speaker 3: So I walked out of the reunion. There was a
Speaker 3: few days before I did my final interview, which is
Speaker 3: that five minute at the end of season ten where
Speaker 3: I break down. And you know, that was really difficult
Speaker 3: for me because I was committed to keeping these secrets
Speaker 3: and I felt like I betrayed all of my friendships
Speaker 3: and relationships with everyone except for Tom, and by going
Speaker 3: behind his back, that would be the ultimate betrayal in
Speaker 3: my eyes from my perspective.
Speaker 1: So you mean you had alienated everyone and then you
Speaker 1: were going to alienate him?
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, So it's really like that fear of abandonment.
Speaker 3: It was really hard for me to, you know, decide,
Speaker 3: like am I am I going to take this story
Speaker 3: to the grave when most people already are assuming the
Speaker 3: worst anyway? Or am I going to own up to
Speaker 3: my actions and be honest and really take accountability. And
Speaker 3: in that moment, I wasn't even able to be fully
Speaker 3: honest because I was still keeping secrets for people who
Speaker 3: specifically requested for me to like keep it on the
Speaker 3: down low, especially going to visit his family and his
Speaker 3: friends out in Saint Louis.
Speaker 2: So it really just showed me that.
Speaker 3: Honesty is one of my core values that I refuse
Speaker 3: to compromise any longer.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's Rachel talking now, because there was some
Speaker 1: dishonesty from your previous action. So this is sort of
Speaker 1: your saying, like, that's the main tenant now going forward,
Speaker 1: like honesty will not be compromised. Correct, And there are
Speaker 1: many different reasons for why you were dishonest. You're taking accountability,
Speaker 1: but there also were many ingredients that contributed to Okay, well,
Speaker 1: we're definitely going to talk about it. Oh, so what
Speaker 1: happened at the facility? Like you, so, how do you
Speaker 1: get to the facility? You go do that? Didn't interview?
Speaker 1: And then how do we get to the facility? What
Speaker 1: was that decision? Like who made it? And then.
Speaker 3: It was a really scary decision to make because I
Speaker 3: knew I needed help, but I didn't know what to
Speaker 3: expect going in. I had the option to go straight
Speaker 3: into the treatment facility before the reunion, but I decided
Speaker 3: to commit to my work obligation and go back and film.
Speaker 3: But once I filmed the reunion and did that final interview.
Speaker 3: I took a flight to Phoenix and went straight to
Speaker 3: the treatment center.
Speaker 2: They took my.
Speaker 3: Phone, they searched my bags for anything that they needed
Speaker 3: to confiscate, and I was kind of thrown into this
Speaker 3: place where it was a lot of new faces, and
Speaker 3: I was already caring so much shame that it was
Speaker 3: difficult for me to be like, Hi, I'm Raquel. But
Speaker 3: as time went on, I was able to warm up
Speaker 3: and really share my story in an authentic, honest way,
Speaker 3: and I was met with grace and compassion from my peers.
Speaker 3: And a big part of my journey is learning to
Speaker 3: be compassionate with myself as well.
Speaker 1: So do you forgive yourself? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: Okay, So now we're onto the show, which I you
Speaker 1: know what, First of all, what made you talk to me?
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody I would assume want to talk to
Speaker 1: you haven't spoken in months. We don't know each other,
Speaker 1: and that take some blind faith, some trust.
Speaker 2: So why me, Bethany? You are a force to be
Speaker 2: reckoned with.
Speaker 3: And I just heard what you were saying on TikTok
Speaker 3: and using my example as using my case as an
Speaker 3: example of exploitation and the way that the network is
Speaker 3: running to the bank, like laughing, running to the bank
Speaker 3: with this scandal, and I haven't seen a single penny.
Speaker 3: So in that way, I feel like, I it's not fair,
Speaker 3: and I feel like a toddler saying it's not fair,
Speaker 3: but it really isn't. And I feel like I've been
Speaker 3: portrayed as the ultimate villain my mistakes that I made
Speaker 3: on camera Live on Forever, and you mentioned something about
Speaker 3: the addiction of doing reality TV and the way that
Speaker 3: they always dingle that care in front of you, like, well,
Speaker 3: you need to tell your side of the story otherwise
Speaker 3: it's going to be written for you, and that's terrifying.
Speaker 3: So I almost went back because of that.
Speaker 1: What happens is to give people inside baseball, and I
Speaker 1: have institutional knowledge of fifteen years, what happens is somebody
Speaker 1: could have a great season and everyone loves them, and
Speaker 1: you're feeding off of that. That's the drug, that's the heroine.
Speaker 1: You've taken the drug, you got the hit, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden something happens and the pendulum swings.
Speaker 1: Because I always say it's a zero sum game. Someone's
Speaker 1: always winning, someone's always losing. Someone's always killing, someone's always
Speaker 1: being killed. The people that end up in the middle
Speaker 1: get fired or or friends. The people that are in
Speaker 1: the middle under the radar. You got to be getting
Speaker 1: killed or killing somebody. So if you are winning, you're
Speaker 1: on top of the world and it seems great, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden you go to the bottom.
Speaker 1: And that's like an addict who hits rock bottom. And
Speaker 1: what do they want to do. They want to take
Speaker 1: another hit. And the producers are there, and this is
Speaker 1: a fact to tell you, you know why you should go back.
Speaker 1: Don't let them tell your story for you. You get to
Speaker 1: go back and you'll show them all next season. And
Speaker 1: that's how they get people who are miserable and on
Speaker 1: antidepressants and anti anxiety medication to go back in not
Speaker 1: to mention, many people ruin their reputations, and this is
Speaker 1: the only place that we'll have them. You have fifty
Speaker 1: five sixty year old women who couldn't really work anywhere
Speaker 1: else much less, have ruined their reputations. So this is
Speaker 1: a place that will take you back. And because if
Speaker 1: you do drugs or get drunk or having an a fair,
Speaker 1: you get paid more. You're celebrated, so it's about this institution,
Speaker 1: this system that I've been talking and I really do
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying, and it occurs to me that
Speaker 1: you're the villain, Arianna is the hero. Tom is another
Speaker 1: character who doesn't take the hit as much as you
Speaker 1: in this scand of all, but you're right, the realm
Speaker 1: is making a lot of money. And now it took
Speaker 1: three of you in a recipe to create that scandal
Speaker 1: as people who are partially produced. Let's just say that
Speaker 1: it's real in a very unreal circumstance and also produced.
Speaker 1: So now you have one of the three characters that
Speaker 1: can't even afford to pay for your treatment that you
Speaker 1: just went through, right, because it's my understanding that you
Speaker 1: get paid in a year less than my interns get paid.
Speaker 3: Really yeah, yeah, And one of the things that producers
Speaker 3: also told me is that you get paid based off
Speaker 3: of your performance from the season prior, so that already
Speaker 3: set me up to want to perform well. Going into
Speaker 3: season ten, I was like, Okay, if this could be
Speaker 3: my season, I could really stand out and I'm single
Speaker 3: for the first time, like I want to embrace that, and.
Speaker 2: I took direction.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you don't ever know how you're doing game,
Speaker 1: because the producer is telling both people, the person killing
Speaker 1: and being killed that they're doing a great job. So
Speaker 1: you never know until what comes out of the oven. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, so that talking about the show, I really
Speaker 1: want to talk about let's be really honest about the relationships.
Speaker 1: So I have made relationships on reality television and it's
Speaker 1: not a healthy place to nurture a relationship. It's not
Speaker 1: a place to bring a relationship in, which is why
Speaker 1: many marriages have failed. And it's not I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it's because of reality TV, but it certainly hasn't helped.
Speaker 1: And then friendships you see very unlikely friendships, and the Housewives,
Speaker 1: you'd see someone like Carol Radziwill and Tinsley Mortimer or
Speaker 1: Jill Zarn and Kelly Bensone, very unlikely friendships because you
Speaker 1: need alliances. It started back with Survivor. So you have
Speaker 1: these friendships and they do seem and feel real, and
Speaker 1: they kind of are real because you're really connecting and
Speaker 1: you're having fun, and you're also have someone to talk
Speaker 1: to this weird thing that no one else in the
Speaker 1: world and your childhood friends would never understand. So it's
Speaker 1: all you talk about you're on a loop and you
Speaker 1: think the whole world is like this, and the whole
Speaker 1: world knows what's going on, And so I ask you
Speaker 1: about this friendship, all of the friendships, and then I
Speaker 1: guess the friendship with Arianna because being your best friend
Speaker 1: is coming into question, and that's you know, the world
Speaker 1: thinks you slept with your best friend's boyfriend of ten years.
Speaker 3: Yes, that is the narrative that is being written for me.
Speaker 3: It is more salacious that way. Arianna and I were
Speaker 3: not best friends. We were acquaintances who became friends through
Speaker 3: the show. She's always been somebody who's been very sweet
Speaker 3: to me. She would stand up for me and encourage
Speaker 3: me to pursue whatever I was.
Speaker 1: I don't know she's doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she would encourage me to pursue whatever I was pursuing.
Speaker 2: And that was all great.
Speaker 3: But we never had like a deep conversation that I
Speaker 3: would have with a best friend. And it's painful to
Speaker 3: think that I hurt her in this way because that
Speaker 3: wasn't my intention. I wasn't trying to be a malicious person.
Speaker 3: I just got wrapped up in this and wasn't thinking clearly.
Speaker 3: But we were not best friends. The alliances who I
Speaker 3: called these people my friends because I really did believe
Speaker 3: that they were my friends.
Speaker 1: It feels real and it kind of is real in
Speaker 1: that environment.
Speaker 3: Yes, so Sheena was one of my best friends. She
Speaker 3: offered her apartment to me to stay in while I
Speaker 3: was figuring out my next moves after breaking up with James.
Speaker 3: She kept this apartment in LA but wasn't living it
Speaker 3: because she was living down in San Diego. But she
Speaker 3: started creating this narrative that she was a sister I
Speaker 3: never had, and the mother like a mother to me,
Speaker 3: and that she gave me a place to live when
Speaker 3: nobody else would, you know, put me up anywhere, and
Speaker 3: that I didn't pay rent, which is not true.
Speaker 2: I did pay rent.
Speaker 3: And I also cat sat for her cat who was
Speaker 3: pumped with mercury for a treatment. She couldn't be near
Speaker 3: the cat because she was breastfeeding for her daughter. And
Speaker 3: I also did her podcasts, and she said the one
Speaker 3: podcast that I did with her talking about my breakup
Speaker 3: with James was the number one most listened to podcast.
Speaker 2: So I know that.
Speaker 3: It's just unfortunate that she's trying to create this narrative
Speaker 3: that I've taken advantage of her when I feel like
Speaker 3: I did contribute in a way that would really.
Speaker 1: You're saying, you're saying it was a quid pro quote.
Speaker 1: It was a mutual beneficial, mutually beneficial relationship within within
Speaker 1: a television show, which is all murky anyway, right, So
Speaker 1: how sorry are you to Arianna? And you know, do
Speaker 1: you what do you? What do you make of all
Speaker 1: of that? Is she? Do you think she'll ever forgive you?
Speaker 1: Do you care about that? Where are you with that part?
Speaker 3: I don't expect her to forgive me. I think once
Speaker 3: trust is broken with somebody from personal experience, it's really
Speaker 3: hard to come back from that. And the fact that
Speaker 3: I was able to keep those secrets from her, I
Speaker 3: don't I don't expect her to ever forgive me, but
Speaker 3: I you know, I am remorseful. I do recognize that
Speaker 3: I've caused her a lot of pain. And there was
Speaker 3: a lot of secrecy deception because although I wasn't hanging
Speaker 3: out with Arianna off camera to begin with, I did
Speaker 3: start hanging out with her in a group setting because
Speaker 3: Tom would always invite me out. So it did seem
Speaker 3: like we were close friends from the outside looking in,
Speaker 3: But in those situations. I was hanging out with Tom
Speaker 3: more than I was hanging out with her.
Speaker 1: So did you spend time Did you ever spend time
Speaker 1: with Ariana off camera and away from the show.
Speaker 2: No, not just us together?
Speaker 1: Never? No, Wow, that's something I mean. Yeah, you definitely
Speaker 1: would have seen your best friend, Yeah, off camera, but
Speaker 1: a whole life, like.
Speaker 3: I don't know, go out to dinner just the two
Speaker 3: of you, or shopping or punch.
Speaker 1: No, yes, okay, So how much do you think their
Speaker 1: relationship is real Tom and Ariana?
Speaker 2: I honestly, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I know I would not be involved in this a
Speaker 3: fair secrecy type of situation if I thought that there
Speaker 3: was longevity in this relationship between Tom and Ariana. The
Speaker 3: people closest to them could see that their relationship hasn't
Speaker 3: been what they portray on camera. And Tom always told me, like,
Speaker 3: they're a brand, they're an image. They work together to
Speaker 3: make brand deals, and they are business partners.
Speaker 1: Are they business partners literally or just you mean in
Speaker 1: the show being like a duo on the show.
Speaker 3: They're a duo on the show, and they utilize that
Speaker 3: for the success of their brand or image.
Speaker 1: Got it? And do they live together now? Still?
Speaker 2: They do still live together.
Speaker 1: I don't you have to explain that to me. You
Speaker 1: don't know, but I don't understand. How does America know that?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, America does know that, and people are confused
Speaker 3: as to why they're still living together. I actually gave
Speaker 3: Tom the key to my apartment while I was away
Speaker 3: at the Meadows, and he had a free place to
Speaker 3: stay and chose to stay in the house with Arianna.
Speaker 1: I mean they both can afford a place or go
Speaker 1: rent a place.
Speaker 2: I I don't know.
Speaker 3: I know that a lot of his money was wrapped
Speaker 3: up in the bar shorts and Sandy's, and I know
Speaker 3: that Arianna has been doing a lot of brand deals. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know their situation, but I do know that
Speaker 3: it really isn't that so prising that they're living together
Speaker 3: in my eyes, because it's been this way. They haven't
Speaker 3: been an authentic couple romantic.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't matter. So their roommates and it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: it doesn't it's not as deep, and so the breakup
Speaker 1: isn't as deep either. And now seeing that she's doing
Speaker 1: millions of dollars of deals, so it takes three to
Speaker 1: tango and scandaal And how does it, honestly feel seeing
Speaker 1: that she's doing all of these deals and is America's
Speaker 1: sweetheart and all these appearances and doing the talk show
Speaker 1: circuit and things like.
Speaker 3: That, part of me says, good for you, because take
Speaker 3: advantage of these opportunities while they come your way.
Speaker 2: But it is hurtful to me just to think that.
Speaker 3: My nature is very kind and forgiving and understanding of
Speaker 3: other people. So the concept of me being the ultimate
Speaker 3: reality TV villain just blows my mind. And the way
Speaker 3: that she spoke to me at the reunion, I feel
Speaker 3: like it was uncalled for.
Speaker 1: It was too far. Yeah, yeah, I mean the thing is,
Speaker 1: I think, and we're gonna get into the reunion because
Speaker 1: that's where I really became invested in this as a concept,
Speaker 1: and I'm speechless about the reunion. But what I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you was, is it more don't hate the player?
Speaker 1: Hate the game? Like you don't blame all of the
Speaker 1: warriors like yourself, who are there to get ratings and
Speaker 1: to kill people or be killed, and to cheat and
Speaker 1: to drink and to have affairs and think it's real
Speaker 1: and normal because that's this landscape. But you blame the game.
Speaker 3: Is that how you feel I feel like I just
Speaker 3: got caught up in something that is way too big
Speaker 3: for me to handle, and I'm just trying to survive.
Speaker 3: So I don't know who people should hate. That's up
Speaker 3: to their discretion.
Speaker 1: But I oh, I didn't mean literally. I meant like right,
Speaker 1: But I mean.
Speaker 3: I think like being knowledgeable on all the factors that
Speaker 3: play into reality TV is important because there's so much
Speaker 3: that is brushed, brushed under the rug and hidden from
Speaker 3: the viewers that it's easy to consume this narrative that's
Speaker 3: being thrown at you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I want to talk about this tape this
Speaker 1: face time. I can't imagine what your parents went through
Speaker 1: about that. There's a video, so your facetiming Tom. You're
Speaker 1: in New York and Tom is in LA and you're
Speaker 1: masturbating and he's recording you, and you don't know that
Speaker 1: you're being recorded, correct, Okay, And then that tell me
Speaker 1: what happened with this video that I now know about.
Speaker 1: So I don't understand what happened.
Speaker 3: I was in New New York for Watch What Happens
Speaker 3: Live the night before All of our the night before
Speaker 3: our big press day and the live interview with Andy Cohen.
Speaker 3: I decided to be adventurous and look at the adult
Speaker 3: section on the TV, and Tom and I FaceTime a lot,
Speaker 3: so it turned into something more of an intimate face time.
Speaker 3: I expected to have privacy in that moment, so that happened.
Speaker 3: The entire day is a success in my eyes. And
Speaker 3: I was celebrating with Shena after watch What Happens Live,
Speaker 3: and I looked at my hairstylist and I was like,
Speaker 3: you know what, I'm ready for anything, whatever happens. I
Speaker 3: feel like I just leveled up and I'm killing it
Speaker 3: and I can handle anything. Literally five minutes later, I
Speaker 3: get a text from Ariana sending me two screen recording,
Speaker 3: two screen recorded videos and a text that said you're
Speaker 3: dead to me, And that's how I knew that she
Speaker 3: knew what day was that this was March first.
Speaker 1: Of twenty twenty three, okay, yes, and so that's like
Speaker 1: five months ago, okay.
Speaker 3: And then also that's how I found out that I
Speaker 3: had been recorded without my consent, So of course all
Speaker 3: of these emotions came flooded, flooding over me. She called
Speaker 3: me and she was yelling at me and begged to
Speaker 3: know when it first started.
Speaker 1: Was she being filmed? When she asked that no, okay.
Speaker 3: This was all off camera. We had already wrapped filming,
Speaker 3: and because she had that video, I was scared for
Speaker 3: you know, I was scared that it was gonna be leaked.
Speaker 1: And it was a graphic like you could see.
Speaker 3: I mean, it was It's not something that I would
Speaker 3: ever want my grandma to see you now, yeah, right,
Speaker 3: or your kids, yeah exactly. So I felt pressured in
Speaker 3: that moment. And one of the reasons why, one of
Speaker 3: the reasons why it went on for so long this
Speaker 3: affair is because Tom and I couldn't come to a
Speaker 3: resolution on the timeline of it all because Tom didn't
Speaker 3: want Ariana to know how long it actually had been
Speaker 3: going on and felt like it would hurt her more
Speaker 3: if she knew that this happened during the summer. This
Speaker 3: was summer of twenty twenty two. Oh so this went
Speaker 3: on for a while seven month? Oh okay, yeah, So
Speaker 3: I told she begged to know. I told Ariana that
Speaker 3: it had been happening for seven months, and she flipped out.
Speaker 3: This is also while Tom was Tom was performing his
Speaker 3: hit new single in West Hollywood at Tom Tom So
Speaker 3: everyone was there. Lisa vander Pump was there and his
Speaker 3: phone just happened to fall out of his pocket while
Speaker 3: he was performing. He didn't change his password, even though
Speaker 3: at this time he said that they were broken up officially.
Speaker 3: And then he also left the video in his camera role.
Speaker 1: Wait, this is what you believe or this is what
Speaker 1: was said?
Speaker 3: This is what I know, because this is what has
Speaker 3: been said by Tom and by Ariana.
Speaker 1: That the phone fell out of his pocket. Yes, and
Speaker 1: you believe that.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what to believe anymore.
Speaker 1: Okay, So the phone fell out of his pocket and
Speaker 1: she then picked it up and put his password in
Speaker 1: and or did you didn't have his face ID? And
Speaker 1: then found a video that was on the front of
Speaker 1: his phone for her to see.
Speaker 3: Yes, a mutual friend picked it up gave it to
Speaker 3: Ariana because Thomas still performing. She had this gut instinct
Speaker 3: she said to look through the phone. And she just
Speaker 3: looked through the camera role and there was the video.
Speaker 1: And okay, and who else has seen that?
Speaker 3: I it seems to be that a lot of people
Speaker 3: have seen it, despite my immediate season desist letter that
Speaker 3: went out. She some of Arianna's friends have described the
Speaker 3: video in great detail online and she also sent it
Speaker 3: to me, so I don't know who else she sent
Speaker 3: it to. I wouldn't be surprised if she sent it
Speaker 3: to other people, but it's not legal.
Speaker 1: Right, And other people have said to you that they've
Speaker 1: seen it. Yeah, okay, So do you mind if I
Speaker 1: ask how old you are? I'm twenty eight, you're twenty eight.
Speaker 1: So have you had many relationships before reality television?
Speaker 3: No? I had an unofficial boyfriend who is scared of
Speaker 3: commitment in college, and that was my first love, my
Speaker 3: first I love you to somebody. And then I met James.
Speaker 3: And I met James and I was twenty one. I
Speaker 3: was in this like DJ phase where I was like
Speaker 3: into the DJ and try to get up on stage
Speaker 3: and whatever. And when I met him, he had this
Speaker 3: like charming British accent, and so I fell like in
Speaker 3: love with James. We did long distance for two years
Speaker 3: and then we lived together for three years.
Speaker 1: But you've had your major significant relationships in your life
Speaker 1: have been on reality television?
Speaker 3: Yes? Wow? Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay? So were you what you believed to be in
Speaker 1: love with Tom?
Speaker 3: I believed I was in love with Tom at the time.
Speaker 3: I now look back on it and see that I
Speaker 3: was not in love with him. I also don't believe
Speaker 3: that he truly was in love with me either. Okay,
Speaker 3: it was we had this connection that I felt seen
Speaker 3: and heard by him that I haven't really had that
Speaker 3: connection with other people on the cast, nor people in
Speaker 3: my real life.
Speaker 2: So it was like.
Speaker 3: I was filming in a tumultuous environment. I was needing
Speaker 3: some validation and somebody to hear what I was going through.
Speaker 3: And here comes along Tom, who really gave me that
Speaker 3: time of day to share my side of the story
Speaker 3: in a non judgment zone, and that's exactly what I
Speaker 3: needed in that moment.