Speaker 1: You're listening to Comedy CENTRALOW.
Speaker 2: What's up Ere's edition listener, it's Roy Wood jun your
Speaker 2: correspondent for The Daily Show. You're about to hear an
Speaker 2: episode of one of our original Daily Show podcasts, Beyond
Speaker 2: the Scenes, hosted by me. It's the show where we
Speaker 2: dive deep into segments and topics from the show with
Speaker 2: the show's writers, producers and experts. In this episode, I'm
Speaker 2: joined by Daily Show correspondent Michael Costa and La Thieves
Speaker 2: Call of Duty player Sam Octane LaRue to dive deeper
Speaker 2: into the world of esports. We talk about how professional
Speaker 2: competitive gaming compares to traditional sports, gamers' ability to make
Speaker 2: up to six figure salaries, and the growth and celebrity
Speaker 2: investment in the games. Take a listen, and if you
Speaker 2: like the show, check out the Beyond the Scenes podcast
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Beyond the Scenes,
Speaker 2: the Daily Show podcast that goes a little deper into
Speaker 2: segments and topics that are originally aired on the show.
Speaker 2: Look this, I got to think about this podcast. If
Speaker 2: The Daily Show is a salad, then we're the toppings
Speaker 2: that make you want to eat that salad. The crew toons,
Speaker 2: the grilled chicken, the seas of salad dressing or frenchi Bosama, vindagarretta,
Speaker 2: whatever the hell you prefer. We all know that Honeymuster
Speaker 2: is the champ. We got it for you. We're diving
Speaker 2: into the world of esports today. Based on a segment
Speaker 2: from Daily Show correspondent Michael Costa. This segment took a
Speaker 2: deeper dive into the growing professional gaming industry roll my clip.
Speaker 3: Competitive video gaming, known as esports is booming.
Speaker 2: There's even a training center with five training rooms and
Speaker 2: six locker rooms.
Speaker 4: The Olympics are considering adding esports.
Speaker 3: I went to California to a so called training center
Speaker 3: in someone's garage to talk with these athletes about why
Speaker 3: video games isn't a sport. What the hell is this?
Speaker 3: This was the Alienware training facility for esports Team Lick,
Speaker 3: complete with scrimmage stations, a war room, pr department, a
Speaker 3: team coach, and even an in house chef. The team star,
Speaker 3: whose name is Taco, was acquired from Brazil's top team.
Speaker 5: This is our real sport.
Speaker 3: You call yourself an athlete?
Speaker 6: Yes, of course, to compete, we go to tournaments, we
Speaker 6: travel a lot, we got some money.
Speaker 3: What does an East sport athlete, mister taco, do every
Speaker 3: day just practice? Yeah, I have a former professional tennis player.
Speaker 3: That's what I would call a real sport. There was
Speaker 3: an opponent and you would relish the opportunity to defeat
Speaker 3: them with your racket. What do you actually have to
Speaker 3: show for what you're doing?
Speaker 6: And come on, I have a really strong finger finger, yes,
Speaker 6: this finger. I were killed at least one million people.
Speaker 3: That finger's killed one million people at least.
Speaker 2: He'll break this down a little bit more for us.
Speaker 2: I am joined by my fellow Daily Show correspondent and Michigander, Michiander.
Speaker 3: Michigander was right. Trust your instincts you.
Speaker 2: Had, Okay, yeah, Michigander, And I'm going to learn from
Speaker 2: you what you learned about making this segment.
Speaker 1: Costa.
Speaker 3: How you doing, I'm good man, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: And it feels odd to even be called in on
Speaker 3: this piece because I was such a skeptic going in
Speaker 3: and uh now.
Speaker 1: I'm like, how professional? So you got any sports?
Speaker 3: I mean I never you know, I grew up with sports.
Speaker 3: Not what's this e? Why is there? Why is there
Speaker 3: a vowel in front of it? Now? So, but I
Speaker 3: was really impressed and turned the corner, so to speak.
Speaker 3: But obviously your other guests can really talk about the sports.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that other guest is a Call of Duty
Speaker 2: player for the La Thes.
Speaker 1: Sam Octane LaRue Sam. How you doing?
Speaker 5: What's going on?
Speaker 4: Guys?
Speaker 5: I'm glad that we um glad we converge you, Michael.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 4: That's that's got. I know you were a skeptic before him,
Speaker 4: and see that's just it's good one at a time.
Speaker 5: I like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was a reluctant convert.
Speaker 5: Want you in the first place? Okay, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Was reluctant and you won me over. So that's that's
Speaker 3: a testament to how fun this can be.
Speaker 4: I like that.
Speaker 5: Are you a video game guy at all? Or or not?
Speaker 5: None at all? Nothing?
Speaker 3: Ever? Since the controller had more than the A and
Speaker 3: B button.
Speaker 2: Lord, are you serious about even a Sega genesis?
Speaker 3: I mean, Roy, I remember walking into you and Ronnie's
Speaker 3: office and you guys would be playing whatever, and I
Speaker 3: was just like, this looks cool, but I am so intimidated.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, where they didn't need us?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, I set.
Speaker 5: Up, like to see where we're starting here?
Speaker 3: Well, and I don't want to jump ahead. But when
Speaker 3: I said about the piece, and I guess this is
Speaker 3: how I got converted. I like watching anybody try to
Speaker 3: compete and perform under pressure, and once you realize that
Speaker 3: esports that's all, that's what it is. That's fun. That's
Speaker 3: fun for me.
Speaker 2: That's how I am about most things. If I know
Speaker 2: someone's going to be disappointed in crying at the end
Speaker 2: type of confrontation, it's usually my cup.
Speaker 1: At two. I can't even watch.
Speaker 2: Chopped Kids, Sam, let's start with that e in front
Speaker 2: of the sports. You know, describe that world to us
Speaker 2: and tell us how long you've been a professional game?
Speaker 5: Oh man, we're summarizing esports. Okay.
Speaker 4: Competitive video gaming is something that is well used to
Speaker 4: be extremely taboo. I'm happy, you know, Michael is perfect
Speaker 4: example here that it's a little bit more mainstream than
Speaker 4: it used to be for sure, But like I said,
Speaker 4: it was, it was taboo years ago and.
Speaker 5: The older generation of just most people in general.
Speaker 4: Whenever you say that you play video games for a living,
Speaker 4: or you know, whenever I get into an uber and
Speaker 4: they're asked where I'm going, what I'm doing, and I
Speaker 4: tell them, the usual reaction is, oh, my my kid
Speaker 4: plays video games.
Speaker 5: Or oh, how do you do that?
Speaker 4: And it's a very misunderstood topic, I could say. So
Speaker 4: I'm happy to see the progrection that it's made over
Speaker 4: the last couple of years, because video games has a well,
Speaker 4: at least used to have a pretty rough stigma around it,
Speaker 4: you know, people being lazy.
Speaker 5: It wasn't a productive thing to do with your.
Speaker 2: Time, and then you blind it ruined your television exactly.
Speaker 4: You couldn't you couldn't make a living off of it.
Speaker 4: It was just a huge time sink. And I'm happy
Speaker 4: that the outlook on esports and video games in general,
Speaker 4: like I said, has changed over the last couple of years.
Speaker 4: But it's just competing at the highest level, and whatever
Speaker 4: chosen video game you would like mine happens to be
Speaker 4: called duty. But there's countless out there.
Speaker 2: The way I've tried to explain it to people is
Speaker 2: that it's really not that different than going to a
Speaker 2: video game arcade back in the day, and you and
Speaker 2: five or six different guys would all try to get
Speaker 2: the high score on whatever the hell, pac Man, Galaga, whatever.
Speaker 2: You're just doing that online. The only scope of knowledge
Speaker 2: that I had of esports growing up was Madden, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, I went to college at a place where
Speaker 2: people would play Madden for money in the dorm, in
Speaker 2: the you know, in the TV whatever. And then eventually
Speaker 2: at some point ESPN had like a Madden League. They
Speaker 2: used to come on at like four in the afternoons
Speaker 2: on ESPN five or some shit, and I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: that makes sense because I've seen people do that here.
Speaker 2: But then once it got into like the bigger world
Speaker 2: of like all of these role playing games in the
Speaker 2: first person shooters, I'm like, well, how where's the money
Speaker 2: coming from with that? Like, how does the money flow
Speaker 2: from that? Because this is being broadcast on Twitch and
Speaker 2: the internet, and I'm assuming it's no different than a
Speaker 2: broadcast network where you turn you advertised all of the eyeballs.
Speaker 5: Right exactly.
Speaker 4: It's very it's very similar to traditional esports, and at
Speaker 4: least my neck of the woods, I play in a
Speaker 4: franchise league, so similar to an NFL or an MLB.
Speaker 4: It's a city based franchise league. I obviously play for
Speaker 4: the Los Angeles team. So there are ways to compare
Speaker 4: it to traditional esports to help people kind of figure
Speaker 4: out how to navigate the waters, But it's definitely a
Speaker 4: little tricky because, like you said, people don't know where
Speaker 4: the money is coming from. And you hear these absurd
Speaker 4: figures like and there's a game called Doda and they're
Speaker 4: like basically their super Bowl.
Speaker 5: It was a forty million dollar tournament.
Speaker 4: So people are very reluctant and very confused when they
Speaker 4: hear the numbers being thrown around. Like I said, it's
Speaker 4: because it was so taboo years ago. The transition of
Speaker 4: like trying to understand the landscape is a little bit
Speaker 4: challenging for people at times. For sure, it's a little
Speaker 4: forty million dollars is a little different than mad in
Speaker 4: your dorm for sure.
Speaker 1: I don't know they was fighting in them dorms.
Speaker 5: Competition is probably about the same.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you how do you get into this?
Speaker 2: Because this is one of them careers that now like
Speaker 2: do you feel like Costa like at this point, like, ah,
Speaker 2: why did the teacher tell me about this shit when
Speaker 2: I was in the third grade? Out it stuck with
Speaker 2: that Sega genesis? How do you get into this world?
Speaker 2: Like how do you even make a team? Like are
Speaker 2: you so good at call of duty as an individual
Speaker 2: that you get a call Is it like the Matrix?
Speaker 2: Do someone knocked at your door and say follow the
Speaker 2: white Rabbit? Like, how do you get pulled deeper and
Speaker 2: deeper into this and then see it as a viable
Speaker 2: career path.
Speaker 4: So I think I'm very confident. I could say that
Speaker 4: like ninety five percent of people start out as a
Speaker 4: casual video game player because they're doing it, whether it
Speaker 4: be for fun or it's just a game that they enjoy.
Speaker 4: In general, I think there are very very few cases
Speaker 4: where people actually just start playing and want to play
Speaker 4: competitively immediately. In my case, I just loved playing Call
Speaker 4: of Duty and loved playing video games my entire life.
Speaker 4: I've been playing since I could hold a controller essentially,
Speaker 4: and I kind of tripped and fell into a career.
Speaker 4: To be honest with you, I was playing recreationally, like
Speaker 4: I said, and I had met some friends online that
Speaker 4: introduced me to the world of competitive Call of Duty.
Speaker 4: I didn't even know it existed when I was playing.
Speaker 4: I was kind of just in my own little bubble
Speaker 4: wasting time essentially in high school. And my friend at
Speaker 4: the time, like I said, that I met online, he
Speaker 4: wanted to travel to this event and it was so
Speaker 4: strange to me, And you know, I was like sixteen,
Speaker 4: and I didn't even know if I was good. But
Speaker 4: you know, when I'm sixteen years old, traveling across the
Speaker 4: country to play at video game event just sounds like
Speaker 4: a great idea. So naturally I did it. I begged
Speaker 4: my parents, and I don't know why they let me
Speaker 4: do it, but they did so shout out to them,
Speaker 4: and I kind of just tripped and fell in love
Speaker 4: with it. It was it was completely accidental, and I
Speaker 4: think that's honestly the best case scenario because it's, you know,
Speaker 4: my my livelihood today.
Speaker 3: Roy and the piece, I interviewed Rick Fox, former Lakers.
Speaker 1: Champion Fox the hell is he doing there?
Speaker 3: Well? Exactly, So this is I'm.
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean no disrespect to Rick Fox. Some of
Speaker 1: them to beat my ass.
Speaker 3: Well. And I remember when we were pre producing the piece,
Speaker 3: I think one of my questions was, can we get
Speaker 3: excuse me, Sam, I'm just gonna speak frankly, I say,
Speaker 3: can we get a real athlete that maybe has got
Speaker 3: into esports, because I don't want to sit with an athlete.
Speaker 3: I want to sit with someone that like whatever whatever
Speaker 3: the tournament. But man, there was something really powerful about
Speaker 3: a guy wearing his Lakers World Championship ring.
Speaker 5: It's easier, it's easier to connect with it.
Speaker 3: It's easier for me to connect with for certainly, what
Speaker 3: are you doing with these nerds?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 7: You're a real athlete and so are they. What the
Speaker 7: shit are you talking about? I mean you we played
Speaker 7: real sports. You know, you can see our balls in
Speaker 7: our pants when we played.
Speaker 1: In our error.
Speaker 8: I think there was no shame around pursuing a career
Speaker 8: in professional sports because you could get a scholarship to college, which,
Speaker 8: by the way, you can get as an esport player.
Speaker 8: Now there's a number of colleges that are building esports
Speaker 8: arenas on their campuses.
Speaker 3: This is all great, but let's get down to brass
Speaker 3: tacks here. How much do these athletes make?
Speaker 8: Probably the best top layer in the world in one
Speaker 8: of our games, he makes probably eight hundred.
Speaker 3: Dozen what And he talked about how I think he
Speaker 3: has a son, or maybe he was talking about one
Speaker 3: of his players, I don't know, but their parents were like,
Speaker 3: stop playing video games, you know, go outside, go outside
Speaker 3: and play. And then one of his athletes had just
Speaker 3: signed like a three million dollar contract. And it is
Speaker 3: very funny because my mom. I mean we played Super Mario,
Speaker 3: we played you know, my mom, get outside, you know,
Speaker 3: I'll give you an hour of video game time if
Speaker 3: you go outside.
Speaker 1: All yes, you know.
Speaker 3: And it's really like, yeah, my mom, you really blew
Speaker 3: my financial opportunities, and I blow my mom to this day.
Speaker 5: Your mom's the reason you're not a professional sports player.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 2: Okay, so constant staying in that lane. What were some
Speaker 2: of the other like similarities and differences between like traditional
Speaker 2: sports and esports. Are they getting time outs? Are they
Speaker 2: getting water breaks between every round? Like do you have
Speaker 2: a corner man?
Speaker 8: Get them rocking?
Speaker 3: Yeah. We went to Team Liquid's training facility in Santa Monica,
Speaker 3: and when I walked in, okay, quickly about me. I
Speaker 3: played minor league, professional tennis, dedicated much of my life
Speaker 3: to tennis. Never got to the highest level in tennis
Speaker 3: that I wanted to. But I walked into Team Liquid's
Speaker 3: training facility and I said, this is a tennis academy.
Speaker 3: I mean, there was a chef who cooked this lunch.
Speaker 3: There was a training facility. There was a breakdown room
Speaker 3: where you would where you'd break down video, watch footage,
Speaker 3: watch footage. They had mental coaches, maybe the wrong word.
Speaker 3: On staff, they had lots and lots of people whose
Speaker 3: job it was to facilitate and make sure the athletes
Speaker 3: were ready to compete. And as soon as I walked
Speaker 3: in the door, I just had this feeling of like,
Speaker 3: oh shit, I got to go put my tennis shoes
Speaker 3: on and go practice. It just felt like that. So
Speaker 3: there was a lot of similarities.
Speaker 2: So Sam, in that world, I would assume that dive
Speaker 2: and sleep help your mental acuity, which makes you quicker
Speaker 2: and more analytical. What is the typical training day? Like,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say you don't need to be
Speaker 2: physically fit. I feel like you do.
Speaker 4: It helps. I've been on both sides of the spectrum
Speaker 4: of physically fit and not physically fit.
Speaker 5: Well, competing it definitely helps.
Speaker 1: How does that text your body?
Speaker 4: So it's it's much more mental it. Don't get me wrong,
Speaker 4: you were I'm not going to sit here and pretend
Speaker 4: that we go through the physical strain that.
Speaker 5: And I'm not gonna be I'm not going to agree
Speaker 5: with naturally.
Speaker 4: I would love to do a.
Speaker 3: Side by side cholesterol or blood pressure test of an
Speaker 3: athlete versus we.
Speaker 5: Could run a forty right now and we'll see how
Speaker 5: it goes.
Speaker 2: Nope, but still sitting in a chair, because I've noticed
Speaker 2: them game costa.
Speaker 1: You ever said one of them game and chairs.
Speaker 3: They are outrageous.
Speaker 1: They are kind of ugly, but so comfortable.
Speaker 5: They're not comfortable. They're not I actually prefer the officehare.
Speaker 4: So anyway, Uh so, I guess that's all it's it's
Speaker 4: essentially all mental. Obviously, being in better physical shape is
Speaker 4: just better for your life in general, and that impacts
Speaker 4: all aspects of your life, not just video games. But
Speaker 4: to Michael's point, how he mentioned the infrastructure behind team
Speaker 4: like facilities and all that, that's that's pretty much the
Speaker 4: standard throughout the majority of Tier one esports. That's when
Speaker 4: you talk about League of Legends or or Dote or
Speaker 4: counter Strike, Call Duty, all these things, that is the
Speaker 4: the standard. We have a chef as well, we have
Speaker 4: mental performance coaches, we have all these things. And I
Speaker 4: think that that's another thing that people really can gravitate
Speaker 4: towards and understanding, because when you know, you watch these
Speaker 4: videos of like behind the scenes of I don't know,
Speaker 4: the charters, uh, facilities, You'll you'll see like their locker room,
Speaker 4: you'll see where they watch their their game film or
Speaker 4: vote for for us, you'll see where the chef prepares
Speaker 4: their meals.
Speaker 5: It's it's a it's a one to one comparison.
Speaker 4: So I think that that's another thing that can help
Speaker 4: bring people, uh towards esports in an easier light and
Speaker 4: too to your point, Roy, Uh, it's it's all mental.
Speaker 4: It's it's ninety five to five, I would say, in
Speaker 4: terms of of mental and that's arguably worse because you
Speaker 4: can become your own worst enemy pretty quickly because uh,
Speaker 4: it's it's very performance based. And obviously you know traditional
Speaker 4: sports are as well, but you can get hurt and
Speaker 4: you can go out for the season, and that's.
Speaker 5: Not really I mean, it's not your fault.
Speaker 4: That's just an unfortunate circumstance, whereas in esports it's entirely
Speaker 4: on your performance and there's really bar like a even circumstance.
Speaker 4: There's no excuse. It's you either played well or you
Speaker 4: played poorly, and there's no.
Speaker 1: Not like the defense sucked but I did my job.
Speaker 4: It's not like it's not like I threw for four
Speaker 4: hundred yards and three touchdowns, but my defense let up
Speaker 4: you know, forty points. It's like I went out and
Speaker 4: I either helped my team win or I helped my
Speaker 4: team lose.
Speaker 2: So there are very strong Uh yeah, very primal health
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 3: Are you guys drug tested? Is not a joke? I mean,
Speaker 3: if it's that mentally straining. Yeah, there's all types of legal, illegal,
Speaker 3: focused drugs, and I know there's stories in the NFL
Speaker 3: of there being bags of greenies that guys popping there,
Speaker 3: you know, before halftime. That keeps them focus, keeps them
Speaker 3: energized amphetamines. So we are for real?
Speaker 1: Is that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Tell me please talk to what we are?
Speaker 4: Drug testing? Okay, that was something that came with the
Speaker 4: uh the CDL. When we started franchising a couple of
Speaker 4: years ago. Before that, it was kind of the wild
Speaker 4: wild West and you could do what you want and
Speaker 4: it was like a tough It was just there wasn't
Speaker 4: enough money for it. Because drug testing don't I didn't
Speaker 4: even know this. It's extremely expensive to do. So once
Speaker 4: the CDL hit and there was a large influx of
Speaker 4: money and millions and millions of dollars, the league's drug
Speaker 4: policy and just the franchising in general really cracked down.
Speaker 4: And now there's it ties for everything under the sun and.
Speaker 2: When you say cdo we're talking about the call of
Speaker 2: doing the league. Okay, now what are you old drug
Speaker 2: testing for? What are the prohibitor of the substances?
Speaker 5: Everything else?
Speaker 2: No weed, I mean the big one's cocaine, heroin. I'm
Speaker 2: sure crack is frowns, none of none of it.
Speaker 3: You could have a legal prescription for adderall.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's things called tee east. I think it's
Speaker 4: therapeutic use exemption is the acronym. And there are people
Speaker 4: in the league. I have friends of mine that can
Speaker 4: vouch for this as well. When you have ADHD, it
Speaker 4: is very hard to actually just function as a person
Speaker 4: without uh, you know, adderall or whatever you're on, because
Speaker 4: you need to come back to zero. It's it's not
Speaker 4: or come back to one hundred, whatever it may be.
Speaker 4: It's not like you're taking it to be better. It's
Speaker 4: taking it to be like a neutral. So there are
Speaker 4: cases like that, which I like I said, I have
Speaker 4: very close friends that are like that as well. So
Speaker 4: there are you have to go to a doctor, you
Speaker 4: have to go through the process to be like, look,
Speaker 4: are you trying to do this because you need it
Speaker 4: or are you trying to do this to get a
Speaker 4: competitive edge. So you see, the held does a phenomenal
Speaker 4: job on making sure that that line is correct and
Speaker 4: there's no one pushing the boundary.
Speaker 1: Now to that point.
Speaker 2: After the break, I want to talk exactly about that
Speaker 2: a little deeper, because I want to talk about the
Speaker 2: mental health implications of what you've already kind of alluded to.
Speaker 2: Putting pressure on yourself and knowing it's your fault that
Speaker 2: you sucked to David, and how do you unpack that
Speaker 2: and if you need to address that pharmaceutically, what does
Speaker 2: the league do to help And just I just want
Speaker 2: to talk about the mental health implications of what your
Speaker 2: job because it seems stressful. In any job that's stressful,
Speaker 2: there is definitely appeal that could help you with it,
Speaker 2: and I want to talk about that a little bit
Speaker 2: more after the break.
Speaker 1: This will be on the scenes. We'll be right back Sam.
Speaker 2: You know we left talking about your practice schedule and
Speaker 2: everything that goes into preparing. First off, like in hours,
Speaker 2: how long are you doing this? Like if football, Yeah,
Speaker 2: if football is like nine to six with two a
Speaker 2: days and a break in the afternoon from aside.
Speaker 5: You know you want a full schedule breakdown.
Speaker 2: Well not a full schedule breakdown, but just from sun
Speaker 2: up to sundown? How long are you holding a video
Speaker 2: game controller?
Speaker 4: Between ten to thirteen hours?
Speaker 5: Fourteen hours?
Speaker 3: Shit?
Speaker 1: You crazy? A day?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: How many days a week do you get thoty Saturday
Speaker 2: off late, six six days at thirteen?
Speaker 3: Is that?
Speaker 5: And that's that's a me thing. That's a that's not
Speaker 5: the standard.
Speaker 4: There are there's plus in mindus obviously, but if you
Speaker 4: want to win, you gotta put the hours in it
Speaker 4: because if you're not gonna do it, then someone else will.
Speaker 5: So I've been around the block. I've been playing for
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 4: Eight years at this point, nine years, so I understand
Speaker 4: what it takes to win, and I've won a lot.
Speaker 4: So it's it's a lot of a lot of trial
Speaker 4: and area throughout my career to find the spot where
Speaker 4: I know that I'm putting in the work required to win.
Speaker 4: And right now it's about that time.
Speaker 3: Are you playing Call of Duty? Or are you working
Speaker 3: on a specific exercise to improve a specific part of
Speaker 3: your game?
Speaker 4: So you guys asked me if if it's controller held
Speaker 4: the entire time, and it's not, it's probably it's it's
Speaker 4: probably like eight hours of playing and then the rest
Speaker 4: is either vo review on the day, talking with coaches
Speaker 4: or my team to figure out, you know, plans or
Speaker 4: strategies for the next scrims, or talking in general about
Speaker 4: practice and improvement, whether that be game planning for matches
Speaker 4: that are upcoming, or if we're traveling, talking about our
Speaker 4: schedule and bracket and all that kind of stuff. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean, for the actual the schedule throughout the day,
Speaker 4: we practice from eleven am to give or take six pm.
Speaker 4: Those are two scrim blocks per day with a break
Speaker 4: in the middle scrimmage scrimmages. Yes, okay, I guess other
Speaker 4: teams she had two of those a day with a
Speaker 4: break in the middle obviously for you know, lunch, and
Speaker 4: we'll talk about the game plan, if we're we're doing
Speaker 4: things properly, if we're addressing issues that we want to
Speaker 4: talk about for that day. And then afterwards, when you
Speaker 4: get home, I'll usually stream on Twitch, and then that's
Speaker 4: kind of the extra time. I mean, I'll stream for
Speaker 4: four to five hours per night, and I'm also playing
Speaker 4: cod during that time as well, so it's the the
Speaker 4: overtime essentially that kind of pushes those hours.
Speaker 2: Really, do you ever have fun do you ever just
Speaker 2: go today.
Speaker 5: No, it's really fun.
Speaker 4: It's you know, it's a cliche, but if you like
Speaker 4: your job, you know you're not gonna work a day.
Speaker 1: And because you was in work voice just now that
Speaker 1: was a work octavity.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you got to train and then you
Speaker 2: study the other team strategies and you figure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's I mean, it's video games, man.
Speaker 4: It at the end of the day, it is my
Speaker 4: job and it is how I make a living, but
Speaker 4: it is video games at the same time, so I
Speaker 4: have a ton of fun doing it. It's competing, and
Speaker 4: obviously competition is great. If you're losing all the time,
Speaker 4: competition is probably not that great U. But yeah, I
Speaker 4: mean it's it's video games, man. It cannot be fun.
Speaker 3: This This is where I appreciate traditional sports and that
Speaker 3: you cannot play that many hours. You know, you even
Speaker 3: in tennis, even at our even at our even at
Speaker 3: our most high training of two a days in college
Speaker 3: where it was two and a half in the morning,
Speaker 3: two in the afternoon. I mean the last the second
Speaker 3: half of that second workout is basically just feel horrible. Well,
Speaker 3: it's just it's it's counterproductive. You're just you know, you're
Speaker 3: out of Yeah, you're out of You're out of energy.
Speaker 3: So chalk went up for the traditional sport that I
Speaker 3: didn't have to play tennis twelve hours and then go
Speaker 3: home and twitch my serf.
Speaker 5: So you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: Man, That's where the boundary of the physical and the
Speaker 4: mental comes up for sure, because it's mental burnout, whereas
Speaker 4: in the physical or traditional sports obviously physical burnout.
Speaker 2: Okay, so then let's talk about the mental burnout of that.
Speaker 2: Have you ever been impacted by that? Like, have you
Speaker 2: ever felt that level of just I'm spent?
Speaker 4: Yes, definitely have. Uh So, when I was young, I
Speaker 4: went pro at eighteen years old. I was playing obviously
Speaker 4: long before then. I was just excited to be playing
Speaker 4: the game. I mental health wasn't something that I was
Speaker 4: really focused on because I never had impacted me essentially,
Speaker 4: and up until I would say, like two years ago,
Speaker 4: it was the first time where I had really noticed
Speaker 4: the decline and I didn't really take the proper start beforehand,
Speaker 4: and I didn't have like the warning signs of myself
Speaker 4: to have the self awareness to stop that from happening.
Speaker 4: So I was on a different team a couple of
Speaker 4: years ago, going through a pretty rough stint in terms
Speaker 4: of like placings and just team performance overall, and it
Speaker 4: got pretty dark. I was contemplating like retirement. I didn't
Speaker 4: know where my career was going to take me. I
Speaker 4: didn't know if I was even capable of playing anymore.
Speaker 4: So that's the self doubt had definitely crept in. And
Speaker 4: like I said, since I didn't really have any prior
Speaker 4: experience with dealing with mental health issues.
Speaker 5: It kind of all hit me like a truck and
Speaker 5: it was.
Speaker 4: It was definitely something that I had to navigate being
Speaker 4: an adult and trying to figure out how to just
Speaker 4: get out of that headspace. That's where, Michael, when you
Speaker 4: mentioned the team liquid thing, like the mental performance coaches
Speaker 4: come in. We had one that was phenomenal with one
Speaker 4: hundred thieves or LA Thieves or.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: The team understands that and they've made space for that
Speaker 2: within their facilities for you all to have that, the
Speaker 2: same as the chef, the same as the messues.
Speaker 3: So we have and that's new, like that my college,
Speaker 3: you know, that's new. And one thing, and Sam, please
Speaker 3: talk more about this. It's always hard as an athlete
Speaker 3: to know am I mentally ill or do I just
Speaker 3: keep losing and losing sucks, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: Like it hurts to lose that you take it personally.
Speaker 3: You work so hard and you're losing. It's like a
Speaker 3: slump is different than like I'm depressed. But there are
Speaker 3: some crossover, So how did you do?
Speaker 5: Definitely, I mean it's nuts, it's I.
Speaker 4: Think the only way to really differentiate between two is
Speaker 4: how much work that you're putting in. I mean, if
Speaker 4: you are doing the bare minimum, you're slotting by and
Speaker 4: you're losing, then you can really still for right to
Speaker 4: be like, look, I'm not doing what I could be
Speaker 4: doing right now.
Speaker 5: Someone should have my job. That isn't me.
Speaker 4: Whereas on the opposite of the spectrum, if you're putting
Speaker 4: it in ten to twelve hours a day, if you're
Speaker 4: watching votor, if you're doing everything you possibly can to
Speaker 4: get better and you're still losing, you need to have
Speaker 4: the mental acuity be like, look, I'm doing everything I can.
Speaker 4: I'm putting one hundred and ten percent into what I'm
Speaker 4: doing right now. So that's a thing that you can
Speaker 4: take away. Maybe your team isn't great, Maybe then you
Speaker 4: can look outside and not pass blame. But you can
Speaker 4: understand it. You are doing whatever you possibly can in
Speaker 4: that situation. And that was something I had to learn
Speaker 4: because when I was doing poorly, I really didn't understand that.
Speaker 4: So I wasn't doing everything that I could have been
Speaker 4: doing at the time. And once I started and I
Speaker 4: started to feel a lot better because it's like, look,
Speaker 4: even if the results aren't there, I know that I'm
Speaker 4: putting my best foot forward. So there's definitely crossover, like
Speaker 4: you mentioned, it's just having to navigate that crossover is
Speaker 4: very very hard to do.
Speaker 2: Can you go on injured reserve? For my mind ain't right? Like,
Speaker 2: how does it when you're talking about this as a
Speaker 2: team based sport and you could be replaced by somebody.
Speaker 2: I don't know how your JV squad or your minor
Speaker 2: league or how you get called up from the G
Speaker 2: League goes in that world. But if somebody replaces you
Speaker 2: and they do better than you, you ain't getting your
Speaker 2: job back.
Speaker 4: So that is very true.
Speaker 2: What is the pressure of choosing to endure mental health
Speaker 2: struggles instead of just literally taking a breaking and plugging
Speaker 2: from everything.
Speaker 4: So, up until a couple of years ago, was very
Speaker 4: taboo to do that. That's I mean, mental health in
Speaker 4: general wasn't really looked upon until a couple of years
Speaker 4: ago as a serious topic and call of duty held
Speaker 4: that that same sentiment with there have been cases where
Speaker 4: people have said, look, I burnt, I can't do this
Speaker 4: right now. I'm not in the headspace to compete. I
Speaker 4: am just a burden to my team.
Speaker 5: Essentially.
Speaker 4: That has happened over the last couple of seasons in
Speaker 4: multiple different cases. And to answer your question, there are
Speaker 4: substitutes on rosters that will step in for that player,
Speaker 4: whether it be like, hey, I just need a week,
Speaker 4: I need X amount of time doesn't matter. And again
Speaker 4: to your point, if they start performing very well, it
Speaker 4: feels pretty rough. But nine times out of ten, the
Speaker 4: player will either be traded the next season if that
Speaker 4: is something that ends up happening, or the players come
Speaker 4: back out right and be like, look, I feel a
Speaker 4: lot better. I'm in a much better mental state than
Speaker 4: I was prior.
Speaker 1: But yeah, mental life, it's like quarterbacks and football.
Speaker 2: Basically, if you lose your job to the backup, you
Speaker 2: still have worse.
Speaker 4: Exactly in the league, you're you're you're gonna have name value.
Speaker 4: You're going to be like, look this guy was playing
Speaker 4: extremely well prior to his break, and maybe his break
Speaker 4: made him feel ten times better. So you still have
Speaker 4: name value when when that case happens, that also has
Speaker 4: happened to your point where the substitute will step in
Speaker 4: and perform. Well, that's kind of how new new players
Speaker 4: entered the league in general.
Speaker 5: But this is pro sports.
Speaker 3: I mean, the stakes are high and there's real money.
Speaker 3: It's so it's not like a participation trophy for everyone.
Speaker 1: So it's.
Speaker 3: You know, I mean, it sucks, it sucks, but if
Speaker 3: someone steps in and does better than you, you got
Speaker 3: to really think if you're going to pop off. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I see one of Sam's mental health strategies just ran
Speaker 3: into the room. That's right, because everybody who competes or
Speaker 3: performs at a high level needs something that loves it unconditionally.
Speaker 5: That's right.
Speaker 1: Cameo a dog caming okay to the dog, came in.
Speaker 3: Trying to get those likes. Look, I can bomb all day,
Speaker 3: I can bomb all day at a comedy club, but
Speaker 3: as soon as I come home, this little idiot looks
Speaker 3: me and tells me I'm funny. That's all I need.
Speaker 4: I'll hear the door open. Here, the door open, but yes,
Speaker 4: to your point, it definitely helps you.
Speaker 3: Have you ever fired a real gun?
Speaker 4: Uh No, I have not, which is strange because I
Speaker 4: am from somewhere that loves hunting in the dirty South.
Speaker 5: So yeah, no, I have not.
Speaker 2: Sam across all leagues now, you play at an optimum
Speaker 2: level in your craft at some of the lower level leagues.
Speaker 2: Have you seen an increase in the level of support
Speaker 2: that esports leagues are providing to the players with regards
Speaker 2: to mental health, Like, I understand the care that you got,
Speaker 2: so like.
Speaker 5: The G League in the NBA for example, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Double A Baseball and things like that.
Speaker 4: Uh yeah, I think it's just with a rising tide
Speaker 4: lifts all ships kind of situation. Once the league franchise
Speaker 4: and we've got that huge influx of money, like I
Speaker 4: mentioned beforehand, it kind of helped everyone. I know that
Speaker 4: there was a large structure put in place for we
Speaker 4: call it challengers. That's like the that's our thing. So
Speaker 4: when you're talking about the Challenger League, there is a
Speaker 4: lot more structure than there used to be. I mentioned
Speaker 4: the Wild Wild West a little ago. It was very
Speaker 4: much like that, but now there's there's a lot of
Speaker 4: different organizations There are professional teams that have Academy rosters
Speaker 4: or Challengers rosters that are directly linked to the CDL teams.
Speaker 4: There are separate entities in their own that just bro.
Speaker 2: That's British Premier League Soccer. Shit, where we draft you
Speaker 2: at fourteen and you are part of our organization.
Speaker 4: Exactly That is exactly correct.
Speaker 3: Wow, I understand when I watch the NFL how they
Speaker 3: make money? How are these where? How are they making money?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 3: Why would they invest? It's not broadcast yet, it's a
Speaker 3: little bit of broadcast, but like, how are where is
Speaker 3: the money coming in in? For esports, it the sale
Speaker 3: of the game.
Speaker 5: So there's a couple of different avenues.
Speaker 4: The main one obviously is advertising and selling sponsorships is
Speaker 4: as you do in general. For the individual such as myself,
Speaker 4: there are you know, brand deals. I have an agent
Speaker 4: similar to how an NFL would do it. You know,
Speaker 4: I can't go on a commercial with Save Farm and
Speaker 4: Patrick Mahomes, but I can do some one off, you know,
Speaker 4: something for like Herman Miller or just you know, brands
Speaker 4: in general that would want to work with you. They're
Speaker 4: streaming on Twitch. There's a lot of revenue there. You
Speaker 4: can do YouTube, So it's just content as an individual.
Speaker 4: On the individual level is probably the number one, as
Speaker 4: well as your salary, which I'll get into. On the
Speaker 4: league level, it's a lot of brands, it's a lot
Speaker 4: of selling partnerships, and on the organizational level, that's where
Speaker 4: you have the tie to UH. Basically in Sanlely rich
Speaker 4: people that like to do esports or have an interest
Speaker 4: in it. So I used to play for the Seattle Search,
Speaker 4: their partner with the Canucks. We I currently play for
Speaker 4: the La Thieves, which is a branch of one hundred Thieves.
Speaker 4: They are one of like a deep triple A esports organization.
Speaker 4: They had a Series A investment when they first started
Speaker 4: their company, invested by Drake. You said, like Rick Fox
Speaker 4: and Echo Fox. There are multiple different cases over esports
Speaker 4: where people just have an interest and happen to have
Speaker 4: a lot of money, and so I mean it's it's
Speaker 4: never a bad thing.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: I'm I'm salaried and it provides my living and there's
Speaker 4: a huge structure, you know, I have industry case. It's
Speaker 4: it's a lot of different things.
Speaker 2: But with that celebrity involvement that has not made it
Speaker 2: mainstream or uncool.
Speaker 1: In any way.
Speaker 5: I think it's I think it's the exact opposite. I
Speaker 5: think that.
Speaker 4: Funnily enough to Drake's involved, not reach there you go,
Speaker 4: So to talk about the celebrity thing just for a second.
Speaker 4: I think the pandemic really moved video games into the spotlight.
Speaker 4: I think beforehand it was pretty taboo and it was
Speaker 4: nerdy to just put it blatantly if you played video games.
Speaker 4: And I think the pandemic, with everyone being inside, kind
Speaker 4: of tied everyone together, like, look, I can't go out,
Speaker 4: I don't have anything to do. Let's all hop on
Speaker 4: a war zone and hang out. So I think it
Speaker 4: brought celebrities into the limelight. You look at like Kyler Murray,
Speaker 4: he just has memes around him that he plays call
Speaker 4: duty on his Microsoft Edge when he's when he's on
Speaker 4: the field. You know, Drake, like I said, is a
Speaker 4: series of Investor of one hundred Thieves. There's there's a
Speaker 4: bunch of things post Malone is even like exactly. He
Speaker 4: loves Apex and was on Complexity. So I've met a
Speaker 4: lot of these guys. I've met celebrities strictly because I
Speaker 4: played video games, and these are things that I never
Speaker 4: would have been able to do otherwise, and it's kind
Speaker 4: of cool because it's an icebreaker. You can go up
Speaker 4: and you can talk shit to them and you can
Speaker 4: do it humanizes them because when you see these people
Speaker 4: and you see Drake, he's like, dude, why would I
Speaker 4: ever put myself in the same room as this guy.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't even know what to say. But it gives
Speaker 4: you the opportunity to be able to speak freely and
Speaker 4: not be as nervous. And obviously that's just an extremely
Speaker 4: privileged standpoint because I could talk to these people.
Speaker 2: But because that's always my thing, I just want to
Speaker 2: make sure that I think it's cooler if they're legitimate
Speaker 2: fans and have some level of emotional investment in what's
Speaker 2: happening versus this just being I've some money on this
Speaker 2: and I am here to check on my like like
Speaker 2: almost earnest in the way that like Ryan Reynolds and
Speaker 2: Rob mclaney bought that soccer team over in England. But
Speaker 2: they're legit there and running like they are invested in
Speaker 2: care versus just somebody. Yeah, this is about liquor line,
Speaker 2: What the fuck do you know about liquor? Yeah, tequila
Speaker 2: by my tequila did you go down there and check
Speaker 2: on your tequila plants?
Speaker 1: Bitch?
Speaker 3: Did you?
Speaker 1: You probably did?
Speaker 2: After the break, Costa, I want to talk to you
Speaker 2: about your experience going to one of these tournaments, what
Speaker 2: it was like.
Speaker 1: We need to talk about the salary.
Speaker 3: Sam.
Speaker 1: I don't want to pocket watch you, but I.
Speaker 7: Want to.
Speaker 2: Give us the median. We don't need your number, but
Speaker 2: give us the median. And I want to talk a
Speaker 2: little bit about women representation within your sport as well.
Speaker 2: This is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back beyond
Speaker 2: the scenes. We're round and third and headed for home.
Speaker 2: Talking esports. Now, Costa, you went to one of these
Speaker 2: sport events. Now I'll give you my scope of knowledge.
Speaker 2: We have The Whiz with Fred Savage, yep, where he
Speaker 2: went to play Super Mario three.
Speaker 3: That's right, totally shit.
Speaker 2: Before it came out, the whole movie was basically a
Speaker 2: commercial for mark Mars three. Yeah, it got my ass.
Speaker 2: And then I also have The Last Starfighter, where a
Speaker 2: dude was so good at a video game that an
Speaker 2: alien from space came down and said, can you help
Speaker 2: free our press people with your video game skills? That's
Speaker 2: my spectrum of knowledge of being good at video games
Speaker 2: and being invited to do it at a pinnacle.
Speaker 3: I don't know the second reference.
Speaker 1: That's a cult hit.
Speaker 5: Bro, those are some references. Let me tell you those
Speaker 5: are some tier one deep cuts.
Speaker 1: I'm forty four years old. I'm old.
Speaker 2: So when you when you step into the Barclays Costa,
Speaker 2: like just the array of p there, Like, what's the
Speaker 2: demo for this? Is it fourteen to forty? Is it
Speaker 2: just young?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good question. Well, you know, my previous
Speaker 3: knowledge of this was that documentary The King of Kong.
Speaker 3: If you ever saw that about the competitive donkey Kong,
Speaker 3: and I remember putting that maybe in the DVD player, saying,
Speaker 3: what is this trash? Why did my brother make me
Speaker 3: watch this? And immediately am suckered into Because it's about competition.
Speaker 3: It's about watching people compete at their highest level. So
Speaker 3: I love that. So Barkley Center, I definitely felt fish
Speaker 3: out of water. I definitely felt like I was the
Speaker 3: tallest person there twenty there was twenty thousand people there.
Speaker 3: I immediately was envious and jealous of the fandom, of
Speaker 3: the passion, of the enthusiasm, of the energy. You know, tennis,
Speaker 3: you clap like this, I maybe had two people at
Speaker 3: my matches. I was watching Team Liquid compete in Counterstrike,
Speaker 3: and all the fans, audience members, you know, whatever you call,
Speaker 3: they're wearing these bracelets. And when one team would place
Speaker 3: the bomb on the the other team, you know, and
Speaker 3: I'm I'm gonna butcher the sport. But when one bomb
Speaker 3: gets placed, a clock starts ticking down, and every time
Speaker 3: a second goes off, everyone in the stadium's bracelet pulses
Speaker 3: twenty thousand pulsing bracelets. So then as the bomb gets
Speaker 3: closer and closer to going off, these bracelets start glowing
Speaker 3: to add to the terrifying notion that this bomb's going
Speaker 3: to explode soon. I'm like, stand, it's so cool. Roy,
Speaker 3: I'm standing there, like there's twenty thousand bracelets going brighter red,
Speaker 3: brighter red, and the other team's trying to like defend
Speaker 3: or find the bomb or whatever the shit. It was like,
Speaker 3: oh shit, e Sports, you guys tied in the fans
Speaker 3: in the game. That was a badass move. And that
Speaker 3: was when I was sold. Now I didn't I don't play,
Speaker 3: and I didn't buy the jersey, but I immediately I immediately
Speaker 3: got it and gave it some props because it was
Speaker 3: it was a fun environment.
Speaker 2: Sam, are people bedding on this shit? Because this is wait,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry?
Speaker 1: What thanks?
Speaker 4: On drafts?
Speaker 2: On DraftKings. I can just go on a gambling app
Speaker 2: and just go yeah it give me forty dollars on
Speaker 2: Sam to score, to get fifteen.
Speaker 5: Kills, throw us at parlazy to everyone.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's a level of knowledge that I do not
Speaker 2: possess about this.
Speaker 1: So if it's twenty thousand people, you're streaming.
Speaker 4: The exact same thing. I'm sitting here preaching. It's the
Speaker 4: same thing.
Speaker 2: So if it's being live stream there's revenue coming from that,
Speaker 2: and eventually that has to trickle back to the players
Speaker 2: at at a high level. Pocket watching roy packet, watching
Speaker 2: time at a high level. Could I make six figures
Speaker 2: doing this.
Speaker 1: For a living?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Absolutely So. When you're a member of the CDL,
Speaker 4: whether that be substitute or on the starting roster, your
Speaker 4: minimum salary is fifty thousand dollars. You cannot make underd
Speaker 4: fifty thousand dollars if you are a contracted CDL professional.
Speaker 1: How long is the season?
Speaker 4: The season is nine months a school year. See's actually
Speaker 4: school ever got your time off?
Speaker 2: So you make aside hustles on twitch and do other streams.
Speaker 2: Should get your celebrity stuff.
Speaker 4: Okay, see the high end, you're making high six figures,
Speaker 4: high sixes, mid mid to mid.
Speaker 5: To high sixes.
Speaker 4: On the extreme cases, like the highest played player in
Speaker 4: the league makes high six figures.
Speaker 5: I'm in the middle, not going to say where.
Speaker 3: So just some people who aren't good with their figures.
Speaker 3: Six figures is one hundred thousand dollars. So you're saying
Speaker 3: mid to high you can make half a million.
Speaker 4: You can make half a million to about five hundred thousand.
Speaker 4: It is like the majority of the league, I probably
Speaker 4: eighty percent.
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Speaker 2: So when you when you look at the research, you know,
Speaker 2: with all of these different teams, at least the research
Speaker 2: on outside, there seems to be a lack of representation
Speaker 2: of women in ET sports. Have you seen that number
Speaker 2: slowly growing over the span of your career? Talk about
Speaker 2: where representation is for women when you started, versus where
Speaker 2: you see it going today, Because I would imagine there
Speaker 2: isn't a need for a women's lead, Like we're not
Speaker 2: going to get.
Speaker 1: Into muscle mass and size. It's shit. Thumb move can
Speaker 1: you move your thumb too.
Speaker 4: So it's funny you asked, because I think the was it.
Speaker 4: It was either yesterday the day before. There was the
Speaker 4: first woman to qualify for the Challengers Elite, which is
Speaker 4: basically like their tournament that is in the Challenger League.
Speaker 5: That was the first time in forever. Uh and that
Speaker 5: was like two days ago.
Speaker 6: I think.
Speaker 4: So definitely there's there's more women representation every year. It's building,
Speaker 4: and I think think that that's just across esports as well.
Speaker 4: I don't even think that's specific to call Duty. You know,
Speaker 4: Valerie has women's leagues. They have full blown I don't
Speaker 4: know what they call it in Valerie, but they have
Speaker 4: like Academy rosters. They have a full blown league strictly
Speaker 4: for women's So I think that as the year goes on,
Speaker 4: or as the years go on, excuse me, I can't
Speaker 4: help but agree that as time goes on, there's just
Speaker 4: more and more women representation, which is incredible to see.
Speaker 4: Specific to call Duty, I think we're lagging behind just
Speaker 4: a tad because it's not really something that I think
Speaker 4: women really gravitate towards. I think Valeriane is probably leading
Speaker 4: the space right now in terms of just esports as
Speaker 4: a whole because I was watching that the other day
Speaker 4: and no joke, and it was legitimately impressive.
Speaker 5: Because I am horrific at Valerie.
Speaker 4: I can't play on keyboard mouse at all to save
Speaker 4: my life in any aspect. Thank god I have a
Speaker 4: controller to make my living on. But yeah, I think
Speaker 4: women are are definitely trailblazing in the space right now.
Speaker 2: For sure, is there in terms of the fight for
Speaker 2: because I don't want to. I want to be very
Speaker 2: careful about not rolling the esports community into the gaming
Speaker 2: community as a whole.
Speaker 1: Right I feel like they're two different things separate.
Speaker 2: We have professional gaming, which where there might be some
Speaker 2: degree of gender discrimination, and you're saying that there are
Speaker 2: leagues and that there are efforts being that there are
Speaker 2: efforts to make things more equitable for women. But on
Speaker 2: the gaming side, we're just talking to regular Joe blow
Speaker 2: gamer in the basement. Women are subjected to all types
Speaker 2: of harassment and trolling and bullying and docsing. How much
Speaker 2: can the esports community do to try to speak out
Speaker 2: against that. It's kind of like the racism and soccer.
Speaker 2: Soccer's not racist, but there's a lot of the fans
Speaker 2: that you're talking crazy in them stands. So has the
Speaker 2: esports community been able to do anything, I guess, to
Speaker 2: speak out about that or try to stop and curtail that.
Speaker 4: I think that transcends the esports feed and I think
Speaker 4: that becomes just like a humanity thing and trying to
Speaker 4: be a good person in general. But to your point, absolutely,
Speaker 4: I think just trying to be as positive as you
Speaker 4: can about the space. And I think that gaming definitely
Speaker 4: has that stigma attached. Michael, since he you're such a
Speaker 4: filthy casual, I'm sure that you could you probably agree that.
Speaker 4: You know, there are people that when you talk about
Speaker 4: video games, they are just people that are assholes, and
Speaker 4: I think that's an all walks of life. Unfortunately, I
Speaker 4: think that you're absolutely right Roy, you know, the sexism
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. It definitely is not great for
Speaker 4: the space, not even just esports, but video games and
Speaker 4: life in general. That's something that we need to be
Speaker 4: a lot more progressive on. You know. I do my
Speaker 4: best to spare as much positivity and might stream as
Speaker 4: I can, and I'm very welcoming to anyone, but you're
Speaker 4: You're definitely not wrong there, and I think that when
Speaker 4: you have women transcending in esports and becoming you know,
Speaker 4: like I said, with the Valorant Thing or her name
Speaker 4: is Kelsey in Call of Duty, when you have these
Speaker 4: women making headway into space, I think that sets an
Speaker 4: example because you know, these women could kick your ass
Speaker 4: in the video game that you're talking about. So I
Speaker 4: think that it's something that you know, hopefully down the line,
Speaker 4: in a couple of years or hopefully sooner, progression is made.
Speaker 4: But I mean, that's just a humanity thing in general,
Speaker 4: just want to be a good person. I don't think
Speaker 4: that's necessarily an esports thing.
Speaker 3: There's something beautiful as we get more women playing competitive esports,
Speaker 3: in particular Call of Duty. There's something beautiful about men
Speaker 3: and women trying to kill each other in the video games.
Speaker 3: Very wrong, I mean, like that is right now it's
Speaker 3: mostly men trying to kill each other, but it's adds
Speaker 3: such a beautiful complexity when it's both genders both working
Speaker 3: together and also working against each other.
Speaker 1: And that was your takeaway from this whole segment.
Speaker 5: It's a filthy casual I like.
Speaker 2: It, no, But I mean you talked about it a
Speaker 2: little bit at the top, Coster, But you know, as
Speaker 2: a casual coming into this and having covered it, how
Speaker 2: did it change your view of just, you know, even
Speaker 2: just the idea that video games make people crazy right
Speaker 2: like in theory, right like they go all video games
Speaker 2: make people violent.
Speaker 3: But then you have love that take that's such a yeah,
Speaker 3: I know, it's such a hash take.
Speaker 2: I know you have an arena full of people watching
Speaker 2: violence and people doing violent ty of they why aren't.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I I just was reminded and humbled
Speaker 3: that what I think is one way is what I think.
Speaker 3: But it's so important to step out of your comfort
Speaker 3: zone because I one hundred percent would be the dad
Speaker 3: that would say, get off the video games, go outside,
Speaker 3: I get doings, go outside. But then you walk into
Speaker 3: the Barclay Center and twenty one thousand tickets were sold,
Speaker 3: and I just say, this is another healthy outlet. I
Speaker 3: know that what you know, they're they're doing a violent
Speaker 3: game or whatever. But it was it was really fun
Speaker 3: to see the team. There was a team aspect, there
Speaker 3: was a coach, they were learning lessons, there was people
Speaker 3: that were disappointed, there's people that had achieved that day.
Speaker 3: It was preparing them for all facets of life. That's cool.
Speaker 5: So just to introduct really quickly.
Speaker 4: That was your first and only experience with the sports
Speaker 4: counter strike tournament. Yeah, you probably picked the best thing
Speaker 4: that you could have possibly done to have your to
Speaker 4: do your for your first time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's probably why we picked it too.
Speaker 4: Counter Strike fandom is kind of one on its own.
Speaker 4: I think it's a league above the rest, not to
Speaker 4: make the joke with League of Legends is also very good.
Speaker 4: Counter Strike has such passion behind it and it transcends
Speaker 4: the game as well. It goes to nationality, the European
Speaker 4: counter Strike, you know, a team like what it was
Speaker 4: Brazilian counter Strike. There are we could compare it to soccer.
Speaker 4: I mean, there's legitimate fandom when it comes to nationalities
Speaker 4: with encounter a strike, and that's why it's so incredible.
Speaker 4: Like when North America does well, people are losing their minds.
Speaker 4: You know, years and years ago Cloud nine was doing incredible.
Speaker 4: They want a major with Shroud. So counter Strike is
Speaker 4: I think the extreme example of fandom in esports and
Speaker 4: League of Legends is also incredible as well well.
Speaker 2: Sam, I can't thank you enough for coming on costs
Speaker 2: to thank you as well for contributing to this wonderful,
Speaker 2: wonderful conversation.
Speaker 5: Hope we converted Costa while we were here, Roy, I
Speaker 5: hope we did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, let's baby steps. Let's put him on a
Speaker 2: Super Nintendo. Let's go to six buttons. He's not ready
Speaker 2: for left L two R two.
Speaker 4: He's not he's not quite the keyboard and mouse yet.
Speaker 2: That's all the time we have for today, but hopefully
Speaker 2: by now we've taken you beyond the scenes, see you
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