WEBVTT - GINGER STACHE: Chief Creative Officer to Pastor & Mogul Joyce Meyer 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:18.720 Carola. She's a queen and she's getting not afraid, so 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:26.639 just let it flu. No one can Caral is sound Carol. 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.640 So I am really excited to be here with gender Stocky. 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.560 How are you? I'm so great and I'm very excited 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:39.559 to be here with you. So fun. I love interviewing 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:45.240 just incredible women across the board, and you are such 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:48.720 an amazing woman. You have such a huge title. You 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:54.040 are the chief creative officer for Joyce Meyer. And for 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:57.279 anyone who doesn't know who Joyce Meyer is, she is 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:02.800 like a odd guru. But I feel like she is 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.200 like super real about it. Like I feel like maybe 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:10.800 that's why people gravitate towards Joyce instead of maybe other 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.319 religious figures. Like she like tells it to you, Frank, 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.680 And she isn't scared to like talk about really hard 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:20.959 things in like an honest way. She doesn't always sugarcoat stuff. 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.240 I feel like, do you feel that way? She's the 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.880 real deal. That's why I love her, you know, That's 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.200 why she's a friend and someone that I love working 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:33.679 for and with because yeah, she tells it like it is. Um. 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.840 No one can make you feel a little bit slapped down, 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.640 but still good about it, like Joyce can't like this 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:43.400 is how it is and this is how it can 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.480 be better, because that's what we're all looking for. Well, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.600 and I struggle, I mean, just to be honestly, in 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.160 my podcast is called Get Real, I struggle a lot. 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.200 Sometimes it's like hardcore religious facts because sometimes it feels 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.520 so intense and it feels like exclusive, and it feels 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.920 I don't know, like sometimes it's just overwhelming. I feel 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:03.840 like you can't quite navigate it or you have to 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:09.200 become this perfect person to be accepted into the religious community. 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:11.120 And I feel like I feel like a lot of 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.360 people maybe struggle with that. So what is your take 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:18.560 on being involved with a big one of the biggest 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.880 Christian religious organizations? And I want to talk all about 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:24.560 your accomplishments, but I kind of just want to set 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:27.880 the stage for your background. But how what is it 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:32.000 like behind the scenes, like being running alongside with Joyce 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:36.520 this huge God organization that affects so many people. I mean, 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:38.640 if you are in if you were in the religious 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:40.639 God community, all you have heard of Joyce Meyer. I 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.560 mean she is like top of the top. So what 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.840 is that like being behind the scenes to all of this. Yeah, Well, 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.400 my role is to be in charge of all of 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:56.079 the media areas, so I'm responsible for television, radio, online, books, publications, um, 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.840 every place that we get that message out. So of 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:01.800 course it is a big organization and there are a 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:05.079 lot of wonderful people or wouldn't work. So I'm very 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:09.440 very grateful to work with so many talented people. But 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:11.520 this is why it works, and I've I've worked in 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:16.560 other organizations and other Christian places as well. But what 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:20.200 we're doing boil down to something very simple, and that 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:23.760 is to share a message of the love of Christ 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:27.520 and to also help people in practical ways. So when 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.800 you boil it down to all of that, it's not 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:34.079 about perfection. No one is going to be that joyce 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:37.400 certainly is that. I'm so far from it. So um, 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.440 that's not the message. The message really is that no 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.960 matter what you've been through, no matter who you are, 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.200 that there's a loving God who is right there with 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:49.520 you and has a plan for you and wants to 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.800 fill your life with joy and wonder So yeah, what 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:58.120 is it like. It's so um busy in a good way, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.960 But there's a lot going on there, a let of deadlines, 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.720 a lot of things to keep going. We have daily 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:09.400 television show, multiple podcasts, a magazine, a website, all the 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:14.480 social media, so it's really really active. But at the 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.520 same time, UM, we are out all over the world 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:22.440 sharing in practical ways to help people with needs like 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:28.880 fresh water and anti human trafficking rescue efforts and feeding programs. 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.800 So because there are so many things, UM, it's the 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:36.880 passion that fuels us. It's that passion to do what 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.039 God asks us to do, to love people the way 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.800 He wants us to UM, instead of that way that 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:47.120 many people think falsely about religion, that it is much 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.480 more a loving relationship, and so letting that be what 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.160 guides us is really what makes it work. And you're 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.719 talking about one of the the podcast that she does. 0:04:57.839 --> 0:04:59.520 You are one of the hosts on talk It Out 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.640 podcast US, which is UM Joyce Meyers one of her 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.120 I don't know where it does everywhere you can find podcasts. 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:09.080 It's like one of the many offsprings of the Joyce 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:14.280 Meyers Foundation. UM. I was watching your video that you 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.680 posted about one of your latest ones that you all 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:22.200 were talking about, which is rejecting rejection, and I was 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:27.280 really like happy to hear this because I struggle so 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.600 much with why the bad things happen to good people? 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:32.840 And you wrote this book called Chasing Wonder that's all 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.440 about enjoying the daily wonder of life and like finding 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.560 the good in life. But like on that podcast, you 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.920 are talking about something that I struggle with, which and 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:43.679 then I want to tie it into your book because 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:45.960 of how we get to where you go, how we 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.560 get to the theme of your book, what do we 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.359 do with all the terrible things that are happening in 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.320 the world, with all of the suffering and the pain, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.640 and and you'all talked about that on that podcast, rejecting rejection, 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.600 and Joyce was talking about like, you know, abuse from 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.800 her dad, abandonment from her her mom. And then there 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:05.960 was a professional athlete it seemed, who was like who 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.479 had a big injury with her knees skiing and like 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:11.080 it like broke her down to ground zero. And but 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.479 it's all about how like those moments are there to 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:18.360 bring us to God, but they're so awful and they're 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.080 so and it's so terrible. And like you you guys 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:22.840 traveling all of the world, and you go to all 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:24.880 these countries and you posted a picture of like a 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.039 little girl holding bricks on her head and like walking 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:29.800 in the scorching heat and you know, doing this for 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.960 hours each day to just like help build her house 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.040 and it's there, and it's like, it's just there's so 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:40.039 much happening in the world that feels sad or it 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:44.040 feels like people are suffering, and it's just hard to 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.440 think that sometimes that that's a part of the plan, 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:48.960 and it's hard for me to find. That's why I 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.560 really want to dive into your book. It's hard for 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:55.039 me to sometimes find the wonder and the joy in 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.360 the world when I know all this stuff is going on. 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.200 But maybe because you guys are so actively hands on 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.200 the ground, boots on the ground out there, is that 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.359 how you can? Is that how you find the wonder 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.520 and the joy because you know every day you're waking 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.880 up and you're like diving into it head first, like 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.960 helping or like, how do we people with with all 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.040 the pain and suffering in the world and still chase 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.760 wonder and still find the joy when you see all 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.000 the things that are happening. It's so hard, Yeah, it is, 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:28.320 And you're exactly right. The the thing about all of this, 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.880 all of the pain that we go through all the brokenness. 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:36.240 There's no one who escapes life without some real heartbreak 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:41.560 and and brokenness. And so it can't be about a 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:46.360 fake happiness. It can't be about a superficial everything is 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.760 great when it's not that, you know. That's why getting 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:54.000 real is so very important. And God doesn't want us 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.960 to fake it either. God wants the real thing, and 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.120 he knows our heart anyway, so there's no reason to 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.320 hide anything from him. And so of course you know, 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:06.559 I faced really hard things, big losses in life, and 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.560 my natural tendency, which I hate to say, it's where 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:15.440 we all have different personalities, but um, I tend to 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:20.120 right away get angry, but I just get mad. I'm like, God, 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:25.360 why why are you not changing this? Where are you 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:29.400 in this situation? And one of the times that, um, 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.880 it really began to pile up, because the more you 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.520 see sometimes the more you experience, the more they pile up, 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.880 the thicker those walls become, the crustier you kind of feel. 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.520 And I had been, um, as many of us who 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.679 travel and see all the outreaches, had been just overwhelmed, 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:51.480 trip after trip after trip with really terrible difficult situations, 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:59.520 walking in red light districts where women were literally held 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.240 prisoner and forced to do what they were doing, and 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:06.920 just seeing the emptiness in their faces. I held babies 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.040 that were dying in my arms of malnutrition and starvation, 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:17.400 and um, so so many heartbreaking, terrible things. But whereas 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:21.199 sometimes the thing that really struggles is sometimes there isn't 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:25.560 the redemption story. Well, that's exactly you're You're exactly right. 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.520 And one thing you said is that I know it's 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.720 part of the plan. I don't think it is. I 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:35.120 don't think it is part of God's intent. It's it's 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:39.920 not what he designed. It's not part of his original plan. 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:45.080 Because you know, people have free choice, and bad things happen, 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.640 and people do things that God doesn't want them to do. 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:52.760 And you know, we we have consequences to all of 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.880 those awful things that are in our world that impact us. 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:59.960 Even when maybe it wasn't our choice, somebody else's choices 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.520 may really hurt us. So I started asking God. I 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:05.720 was so angry, and I'm like, okay, God, hell am 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.920 I supposed to deal with all this? Where are you 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:12.319 in this? And um, first of all, you just let 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:14.640 me be mad because there is no answer there is 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.880 no answer to some of this stuff. But and that thing, 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.120 that's the thing too. It's like with the women in 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:24.120 the red light district and the babies who are buying malnutrition, 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.400 I just like, I'm with you. I'm so mad. I'm like, God, 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.760 this isn't fair. Like women were like held captive and 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:31.920 they were put into this against their will, and now 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.440 these babies were just born into this life. And it's like, 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.200 I so overwhelmed, and just I guess it's anger mixed 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.240 with sadness. Then I just want to give up, you know, yeah, 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.640 And and the giving up is the part that God 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.800 really wouldn't let me do. And a little bit of 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.240 what you said is very much a part of it 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:51.680 is because we're not just seeing it. We really are 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.000 making a difference. We're feeding children and we are seeing 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:58.000 them snatched out of the hands of death. We are 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:02.280 rescuing women out of this horrible situation and teaching them 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.320 how to have a career and support themselves. And so 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.480 we are seeing those things, but there always is someone 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.800 else that you can't reach, so there's always more to do. 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.160 You can't do it all. And so I began to 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.200 ask this question, God, where are you in this instead 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.800 of just being angry, show me where you are in this. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:25.760 And I really began to feel um that it's not 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.840 what he wanted. But he didn't leave it. He he 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:30.840 doesn't want things to turn out the way that they 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.480 always do in our world, but he doesn't turn his 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.040 back to it. He he works in people's lives. He's 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.600 there loving us in our hardest situations. He does bring 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:44.240 healing to so many people. I've seen so many amazing 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.600 things that you just can't explain, as well as those 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:49.840 hard things that didn't go the way I thought they 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.480 should like I wanted God to do. So there's really 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:57.800 no explanation except for the fact that God will show 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.800 you these little glimpse says of him still in the 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:06.280 midst of terrible situations, whether it is someone who had 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.920 the opportunity to come out and whose life was changed, 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:11.760 or a smile on a child's face that makes no 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:16.000 sense because they're in an awful situation. But there's still 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.760 joy there that's coming from the inside. So I can't 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.240 give up hope. I think that's the biggest thing. Without hope, 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:28.320 it is all over. And I still have that hope 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.720 because I've seen the things that God can and does 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.280 do doesn't always do it in my timing or the 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.200 way I want. But I have to hold onto those 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.200 little glimpses of hope, even if it's a flower growing 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:44.480 in a terrible, dirty place. I see God planting these 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.000 little seeds of hope, and that's one of the things 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.000 that keeps me going. And that's why I want to 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:52.559 encourage people to chase after God's wonder even in our 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:54.679 hardest times. When I was writing this book, I was 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:58.400 going through a really hard time. Um we were dealing 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:04.360 with several things in our family, loss, cancer, and I 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.719 still I knew that God wanted me to be on 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.960 the lookout for him. And so that's what I want 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:15.320 to do, is to encourage people and in the possibilities 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.880 waking up every day that I may not love everything 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:23.440 in this day, but I will look for the possibility 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:28.960 of seeing something beautiful, meeting somewhat amazing, doing something extraordinary. 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.440 If we don't open our heart to that hope, we're 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.880 not going to find it. I love that, and I 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.720 think that is such a great way to live your life. 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.679 Why do you Why would you tell someone for like, 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.319 sometimes I'm just gonna tell you my own personal struggle. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.120 Sometimes I feel guilty for being too happy when I 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:49.920 know things are going on in the world that I 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.800 can't say. So it's like and I know, I know 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:54.640 we have to hang on to hope, and I know 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:56.840 that like that's what we have to like clean to 0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.760 but I'm always like, like I said before, and this 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:02.160 is me, just I'm a I'm sort of like just 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:04.840 I'm not like a depressed person, but I'm just like 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.240 over aware of sadness in the world. And so it's 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:11.080 like I always am thinking of the ones lost instead 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.880 of the ones saved. So like I'm thinking, I'm always 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:15.840 thinking about, like what about the ones that we didn't get, 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.360 that didn't get at that chance, and so what how 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.480 when we are like living, when we're when we are 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.520 chasing wonder in our life and enjoying our life, is it? 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.760 Sometimes I feel guilty for trying to have too much 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.240 joy and happiness when I know other people are literally 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.360 like in chains and you know, and like in like 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.160 in life that they can't get out of. And it's like, oh, 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.080 I feel so bad, you know, like I feel like 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.800 I shouldn't be able to have all this joy when 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.720 some people have no joy. If that makes sense. Sure, 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.160 it makes a lot of sense. And I have definitely 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.040 been there many times. I remember being in Madagascar and 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:56.120 we were working with UM this large, large population of 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.840 homeless kids. I was sitting on the street talking with 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.680 family of homeless children and they were telling me what 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.800 their life was like and how they would watch these 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:10.400 two others backs and sleep and shifts because it's so dangerous. 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:14.360 And then I went back to my comfortable hotel and 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.600 that's when the tears just start flowing, you know, That's 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.080 when I'm just like, why do I have this when 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.920 they have that? And like you said, it's easy for 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:29.160 that to be a guilt feeling. UM certainly not understanding, 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:35.000 but the guilt that you feel doesn't serve anybody. I know. 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.760 I know, and I tell myself that, like I know anything. 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.440 And so if if we're doing what we can do, 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.400 and we are helping where we can help, we know 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:50.000 we can't help everyone, but we're doing what we can do, 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.360 then I honestly believe that if we have joy in 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.160 our lives, it's not just for us, it's for other 0:15:56.200 --> 0:16:00.640 people too. So if I can stave off that guilt 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.680 and allow God's joy to work up in my life, 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.760 it will spill over into other people's lives, and I 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.200 would much rather do that. And you know, I have 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.280 a choice what I dwell on. I can dwell on 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.160 that guilt that I felt really strongly, or I can 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:19.920 dwell on the gratitude that God not only is allowing 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.880 me to help people, but he's meeting my needs and 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.520 be grateful about it and let that overflow onto others. 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.840 And it's such a delicate balance. And you're right, my 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:31.920 heart just breaks for people. It's hard for me because 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:35.000 I'm very, very sensitive to the needs around me and 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.200 I've seen so much, so much. Yeah, I know how 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.400 real it is, but I can't live in a place 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.760 where I'm not able to help anyone because I'm so downtrodden. 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.440 And that makes so much sense that that is such 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.240 an amazing point, and I feel like I need to 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:54.720 work on that in my mind because like I just 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.320 like fall into these ruts when really the thing and 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.440 I think is so great about what you're saying is 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.320 you've seen it, you feel it, but you choose to 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:06.720 find a joy in your own life because God gave 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.080 you this life. God put you in this life, and 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:14.000 you're doing everything that you can in your power of 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.640 who you are as a human to bless the world 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.800 the best way you know how. And that I always 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:23.320 try to come back to is it's I can't, Like 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.439 you said, you can't save the world. But like we 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.600 all have like callings, we feel led to do certain 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.560 things and help in different ways, and we all have 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.880 different gifts and ways that we feel like we can contribute, 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.920 and it really is our job to follow those into 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.120 like go where God is opening the doors and where 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.239 we feel let it's easy to feel like we're not 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.040 doing enough. Of course, we're never doing enough. There's so 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.560 much to do, But we can't compare ourselves to someone else. 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.119 You know, We're all in different places in our life. 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.480 We all have different gifts and talents, and God has 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.480 different things ahead for all of us, so we we 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.600 can't play that comparison game. And then one situation that 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:05.240 I learned so much about what you're saying is um 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.080 there was a little girl that I met in Ethiopia, 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.480 and Ethiopia is one of those places that you see 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:15.880 just the worst of humanity. You see terrible starvation, you 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:21.000 see um, sex, trafficking, and horrific ways and so we 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:24.320 were helping this little girl and and feeding her and 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.879 she was doing so well, and so we were going 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.159 back to see her again and I was so excited 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:33.879 that her name was a Baba, to see you Baba again. 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:38.600 And on our way there, we heard that she passed away, 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:44.560 and I was devastated and heartbroken and like, God, why 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.080 did you bring her so far and then have this happen? 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.159 And so I was just going there hopeless, I really was. 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.320 And we got there and Baba wore this little purple 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.520 scarf and the sweetest smile on her face. And I 0:18:56.560 --> 0:19:00.000 got there and I saw her mother with a little 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.280 a girl and a little purple scarf on, and I thought, 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.639 was was the information wrong? Is this a Boba? You know? 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:10.639 Is she live? And I was so hopeful. And then 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:14.159 I went and I saw her mom and this was 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:21.040 a Boba's baby sister. So once again I had this strong, 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:25.520 strong feeling like I can't lose hope, because yeah, we 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.880 lost her, but there's always someone else who needs us. 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:31.560 When one thing doesn't go the way we wanted to, 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.639 there's always the next person. There's always the next situation 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.000 in our life where we need to work that hope 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.359 up again, and God will be there in the midst 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:45.080 of that situation, and hopefully it will go differently. I 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.399 don't know if it will or not, but that little 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.320 girl did well, and so I guess it just taught 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:55.080 me that, um, it's never over. You know. One thing 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:56.600 doesn't turn out the way that you want it to, 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.880 but there's always the next situation that will need your 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.080 joy in your hand of God working in their life. 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.320 That is so true. And I think another thing that 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.080 I do that I feel like is something I should 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:13.119 not do is I project so much my feelings onto circumstances, 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:18.199 and like I will create entire scenarios about sadness that 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:22.000 I perceive when sometimes the person living in isn't is 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:24.760 most likely proceeding a completely different story than what I'm 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:28.040 making up, you know. So I feel like that's another 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:30.760 thing that I have to work on instead of just 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.239 like feeling all these feelings that I'm making up. Just like, 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:35.680 get in there and help where you can, and then 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:39.720 you have to hand it over to God. What inspired 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:42.800 you to write this book Chasing Wonder? Because writing a 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.720 book is no small task, and this is such an 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:49.800 inspired piece of work that you created. Tell me where 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:51.959 you got your inspiration and how you knew that you 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.720 needed to write this book. I was having this this 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:02.120 time in my life where I really knew that there 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:03.919 was something I was supposed to be doing and I 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.280 didn't know what it was, but I knew I wasn't 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.640 doing it. Have you ever had that feeling all the time? 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.800 I feel that like constantly, Yeah, like there's something, there's 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:14.200 something I know that I'm supposed to be doing and 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.959 I don't know what it is. And it just started 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:20.399 by um making a list. I was on an airplane. 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:22.240 You've got a lot of free time when it airplane. 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.239 This was pre pandemic. I was making a list of 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:29.320 things that I had been able to experience, these wonderful 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.800 people I've met, places I'd been, and great experiences. And 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.359 the reason I started doing that is because I wanted 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.399 to remember these things. You know, it's like journalinge. I 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:40.200 just didn't want to forget the good things that God 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.359 was doing. And I also wanted to focus on my 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.760 gratitude instead of all the hard things and the things 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:47.280 that didn't go the way that I wanted. So I 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.040 started making this list, and as I began to kind 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:52.879 of share it with people and just talk about it 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.520 to my friends and passing um they would they would 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:59.200 say things like, Wow, you know, I wish I could 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:02.600 do those things, things I wish I could help people. Um, 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:05.920 I wish I could do different things. And I felt 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:10.159 so strongly that I want to encourage people that they 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:13.080 don't have to say I wish because they can and 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:17.160 it won't be my list. It will be their list, 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:20.840 which will be so much better for them because it 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:25.040 will be tailor made for their passions and their skills 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:28.080 that God has put in them their personalities. So it 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:31.600 may not be traveling the world, it may be making 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.800 your neighborhood a better place, it may be investing in 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:37.440 your family in a really powerful way, but it will 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:40.760 be the things that bring you joy and also bring 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:44.639 God's wonder to life in your world. So that was 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.960 my my real impetus behind this book. And when I 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:51.439 started doing this, that weight kind of lifted that I 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:53.879