Speaker 1: Carola. She's a queen and she's getting not afraid, so
Speaker 1: just let it flu. No one can Caral is sound Carol.
Speaker 1: So I am really excited to be here with gender Stocky.
Speaker 1: How are you? I'm so great and I'm very excited
Speaker 1: to be here with you. So fun. I love interviewing
Speaker 1: just incredible women across the board, and you are such
Speaker 1: an amazing woman. You have such a huge title. You
Speaker 1: are the chief creative officer for Joyce Meyer. And for
Speaker 1: anyone who doesn't know who Joyce Meyer is, she is
Speaker 1: like a odd guru. But I feel like she is
Speaker 1: like super real about it. Like I feel like maybe
Speaker 1: that's why people gravitate towards Joyce instead of maybe other
Speaker 1: religious figures. Like she like tells it to you, Frank,
Speaker 1: And she isn't scared to like talk about really hard
Speaker 1: things in like an honest way. She doesn't always sugarcoat stuff.
Speaker 1: I feel like, do you feel that way? She's the
Speaker 1: real deal. That's why I love her, you know, That's
Speaker 1: why she's a friend and someone that I love working
Speaker 1: for and with because yeah, she tells it like it is. Um.
Speaker 1: No one can make you feel a little bit slapped down,
Speaker 1: but still good about it, like Joyce can't like this
Speaker 1: is how it is and this is how it can
Speaker 1: be better, because that's what we're all looking for. Well,
Speaker 1: and I struggle, I mean, just to be honestly, in
Speaker 1: my podcast is called Get Real, I struggle a lot.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like hardcore religious facts because sometimes it feels
Speaker 1: so intense and it feels like exclusive, and it feels
Speaker 1: I don't know, like sometimes it's just overwhelming. I feel
Speaker 1: like you can't quite navigate it or you have to
Speaker 1: become this perfect person to be accepted into the religious community.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I feel like a lot of
Speaker 1: people maybe struggle with that. So what is your take
Speaker 1: on being involved with a big one of the biggest
Speaker 1: Christian religious organizations? And I want to talk all about
Speaker 1: your accomplishments, but I kind of just want to set
Speaker 1: the stage for your background. But how what is it
Speaker 1: like behind the scenes, like being running alongside with Joyce
Speaker 1: this huge God organization that affects so many people. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you are in if you were in the religious
Speaker 1: God community, all you have heard of Joyce Meyer. I
Speaker 1: mean she is like top of the top. So what
Speaker 1: is that like being behind the scenes to all of this. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: my role is to be in charge of all of
Speaker 1: the media areas, so I'm responsible for television, radio, online, books, publications, um,
Speaker 1: every place that we get that message out. So of
Speaker 1: course it is a big organization and there are a
Speaker 1: lot of wonderful people or wouldn't work. So I'm very
Speaker 1: very grateful to work with so many talented people. But
Speaker 1: this is why it works, and I've I've worked in
Speaker 1: other organizations and other Christian places as well. But what
Speaker 1: we're doing boil down to something very simple, and that
Speaker 1: is to share a message of the love of Christ
Speaker 1: and to also help people in practical ways. So when
Speaker 1: you boil it down to all of that, it's not
Speaker 1: about perfection. No one is going to be that joyce
Speaker 1: certainly is that. I'm so far from it. So um,
Speaker 1: that's not the message. The message really is that no
Speaker 1: matter what you've been through, no matter who you are,
Speaker 1: that there's a loving God who is right there with
Speaker 1: you and has a plan for you and wants to
Speaker 1: fill your life with joy and wonder So yeah, what
Speaker 1: is it like. It's so um busy in a good way,
Speaker 1: But there's a lot going on there, a let of deadlines,
Speaker 1: a lot of things to keep going. We have daily
Speaker 1: television show, multiple podcasts, a magazine, a website, all the
Speaker 1: social media, so it's really really active. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, UM, we are out all over the world
Speaker 1: sharing in practical ways to help people with needs like
Speaker 1: fresh water and anti human trafficking rescue efforts and feeding programs.
Speaker 1: So because there are so many things, UM, it's the
Speaker 1: passion that fuels us. It's that passion to do what
Speaker 1: God asks us to do, to love people the way
Speaker 1: He wants us to UM, instead of that way that
Speaker 1: many people think falsely about religion, that it is much
Speaker 1: more a loving relationship, and so letting that be what
Speaker 1: guides us is really what makes it work. And you're
Speaker 1: talking about one of the the podcast that she does.
Speaker 1: You are one of the hosts on talk It Out
Speaker 1: podcast US, which is UM Joyce Meyers one of her
Speaker 1: I don't know where it does everywhere you can find podcasts.
Speaker 1: It's like one of the many offsprings of the Joyce
Speaker 1: Meyers Foundation. UM. I was watching your video that you
Speaker 1: posted about one of your latest ones that you all
Speaker 1: were talking about, which is rejecting rejection, and I was
Speaker 1: really like happy to hear this because I struggle so
Speaker 1: much with why the bad things happen to good people?
Speaker 1: And you wrote this book called Chasing Wonder that's all
Speaker 1: about enjoying the daily wonder of life and like finding
Speaker 1: the good in life. But like on that podcast, you
Speaker 1: are talking about something that I struggle with, which and
Speaker 1: then I want to tie it into your book because
Speaker 1: of how we get to where you go, how we
Speaker 1: get to the theme of your book, what do we
Speaker 1: do with all the terrible things that are happening in
Speaker 1: the world, with all of the suffering and the pain,
Speaker 1: and and you'all talked about that on that podcast, rejecting rejection,
Speaker 1: and Joyce was talking about like, you know, abuse from
Speaker 1: her dad, abandonment from her her mom. And then there
Speaker 1: was a professional athlete it seemed, who was like who
Speaker 1: had a big injury with her knees skiing and like
Speaker 1: it like broke her down to ground zero. And but
Speaker 1: it's all about how like those moments are there to
Speaker 1: bring us to God, but they're so awful and they're
Speaker 1: so and it's so terrible. And like you you guys
Speaker 1: traveling all of the world, and you go to all
Speaker 1: these countries and you posted a picture of like a
Speaker 1: little girl holding bricks on her head and like walking
Speaker 1: in the scorching heat and you know, doing this for
Speaker 1: hours each day to just like help build her house
Speaker 1: and it's there, and it's like, it's just there's so
Speaker 1: much happening in the world that feels sad or it
Speaker 1: feels like people are suffering, and it's just hard to
Speaker 1: think that sometimes that that's a part of the plan,
Speaker 1: and it's hard for me to find. That's why I
Speaker 1: really want to dive into your book. It's hard for
Speaker 1: me to sometimes find the wonder and the joy in
Speaker 1: the world when I know all this stuff is going on.
Speaker 1: But maybe because you guys are so actively hands on
Speaker 1: the ground, boots on the ground out there, is that
Speaker 1: how you can? Is that how you find the wonder
Speaker 1: and the joy because you know every day you're waking
Speaker 1: up and you're like diving into it head first, like
Speaker 1: helping or like, how do we people with with all
Speaker 1: the pain and suffering in the world and still chase
Speaker 1: wonder and still find the joy when you see all
Speaker 1: the things that are happening. It's so hard, Yeah, it is,
Speaker 1: And you're exactly right. The the thing about all of this,
Speaker 1: all of the pain that we go through all the brokenness.
Speaker 1: There's no one who escapes life without some real heartbreak
Speaker 1: and and brokenness. And so it can't be about a
Speaker 1: fake happiness. It can't be about a superficial everything is
Speaker 1: great when it's not that, you know. That's why getting
Speaker 1: real is so very important. And God doesn't want us
Speaker 1: to fake it either. God wants the real thing, and
Speaker 1: he knows our heart anyway, so there's no reason to
Speaker 1: hide anything from him. And so of course you know,
Speaker 1: I faced really hard things, big losses in life, and
Speaker 1: my natural tendency, which I hate to say, it's where
Speaker 1: we all have different personalities, but um, I tend to
Speaker 1: right away get angry, but I just get mad. I'm like, God,
Speaker 1: why why are you not changing this? Where are you
Speaker 1: in this situation? And one of the times that, um,
Speaker 1: it really began to pile up, because the more you
Speaker 1: see sometimes the more you experience, the more they pile up,
Speaker 1: the thicker those walls become, the crustier you kind of feel.
Speaker 1: And I had been, um, as many of us who
Speaker 1: travel and see all the outreaches, had been just overwhelmed,
Speaker 1: trip after trip after trip with really terrible difficult situations,
Speaker 1: walking in red light districts where women were literally held
Speaker 1: prisoner and forced to do what they were doing, and
Speaker 1: just seeing the emptiness in their faces. I held babies
Speaker 1: that were dying in my arms of malnutrition and starvation,
Speaker 1: and um, so so many heartbreaking, terrible things. But whereas
Speaker 1: sometimes the thing that really struggles is sometimes there isn't
Speaker 1: the redemption story. Well, that's exactly you're You're exactly right.
Speaker 1: And one thing you said is that I know it's
Speaker 1: part of the plan. I don't think it is. I
Speaker 1: don't think it is part of God's intent. It's it's
Speaker 1: not what he designed. It's not part of his original plan.
Speaker 1: Because you know, people have free choice, and bad things happen,
Speaker 1: and people do things that God doesn't want them to do.
Speaker 1: And you know, we we have consequences to all of
Speaker 1: those awful things that are in our world that impact us.
Speaker 1: Even when maybe it wasn't our choice, somebody else's choices
Speaker 1: may really hurt us. So I started asking God. I
Speaker 1: was so angry, and I'm like, okay, God, hell am
Speaker 1: I supposed to deal with all this? Where are you
Speaker 1: in this? And um, first of all, you just let
Speaker 1: me be mad because there is no answer there is
Speaker 1: no answer to some of this stuff. But and that thing,
Speaker 1: that's the thing too. It's like with the women in
Speaker 1: the red light district and the babies who are buying malnutrition,
Speaker 1: I just like, I'm with you. I'm so mad. I'm like, God,
Speaker 1: this isn't fair. Like women were like held captive and
Speaker 1: they were put into this against their will, and now
Speaker 1: these babies were just born into this life. And it's like,
Speaker 1: I so overwhelmed, and just I guess it's anger mixed
Speaker 1: with sadness. Then I just want to give up, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: And and the giving up is the part that God
Speaker 1: really wouldn't let me do. And a little bit of
Speaker 1: what you said is very much a part of it
Speaker 1: is because we're not just seeing it. We really are
Speaker 1: making a difference. We're feeding children and we are seeing
Speaker 1: them snatched out of the hands of death. We are
Speaker 1: rescuing women out of this horrible situation and teaching them
Speaker 1: how to have a career and support themselves. And so
Speaker 1: we are seeing those things, but there always is someone
Speaker 1: else that you can't reach, so there's always more to do.
Speaker 1: You can't do it all. And so I began to
Speaker 1: ask this question, God, where are you in this instead
Speaker 1: of just being angry, show me where you are in this.
Speaker 1: And I really began to feel um that it's not
Speaker 1: what he wanted. But he didn't leave it. He he
Speaker 1: doesn't want things to turn out the way that they
Speaker 1: always do in our world, but he doesn't turn his
Speaker 1: back to it. He he works in people's lives. He's
Speaker 1: there loving us in our hardest situations. He does bring
Speaker 1: healing to so many people. I've seen so many amazing
Speaker 1: things that you just can't explain, as well as those
Speaker 1: hard things that didn't go the way I thought they
Speaker 1: should like I wanted God to do. So there's really
Speaker 1: no explanation except for the fact that God will show
Speaker 1: you these little glimpse says of him still in the
Speaker 1: midst of terrible situations, whether it is someone who had
Speaker 1: the opportunity to come out and whose life was changed,
Speaker 1: or a smile on a child's face that makes no
Speaker 1: sense because they're in an awful situation. But there's still
Speaker 1: joy there that's coming from the inside. So I can't
Speaker 1: give up hope. I think that's the biggest thing. Without hope,
Speaker 1: it is all over. And I still have that hope
Speaker 1: because I've seen the things that God can and does
Speaker 1: do doesn't always do it in my timing or the
Speaker 1: way I want. But I have to hold onto those
Speaker 1: little glimpses of hope, even if it's a flower growing
Speaker 1: in a terrible, dirty place. I see God planting these
Speaker 1: little seeds of hope, and that's one of the things
Speaker 1: that keeps me going. And that's why I want to
Speaker 1: encourage people to chase after God's wonder even in our
Speaker 1: hardest times. When I was writing this book, I was
Speaker 1: going through a really hard time. Um we were dealing
Speaker 1: with several things in our family, loss, cancer, and I
Speaker 1: still I knew that God wanted me to be on
Speaker 1: the lookout for him. And so that's what I want
Speaker 1: to do, is to encourage people and in the possibilities
Speaker 1: waking up every day that I may not love everything
Speaker 1: in this day, but I will look for the possibility
Speaker 1: of seeing something beautiful, meeting somewhat amazing, doing something extraordinary.
Speaker 1: If we don't open our heart to that hope, we're
Speaker 1: not going to find it. I love that, and I
Speaker 1: think that is such a great way to live your life.
Speaker 1: Why do you Why would you tell someone for like,
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm just gonna tell you my own personal struggle.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I feel guilty for being too happy when I
Speaker 1: know things are going on in the world that I
Speaker 1: can't say. So it's like and I know, I know
Speaker 1: we have to hang on to hope, and I know
Speaker 1: that like that's what we have to like clean to
Speaker 1: but I'm always like, like I said before, and this
Speaker 1: is me, just I'm a I'm sort of like just
Speaker 1: I'm not like a depressed person, but I'm just like
Speaker 1: over aware of sadness in the world. And so it's
Speaker 1: like I always am thinking of the ones lost instead
Speaker 1: of the ones saved. So like I'm thinking, I'm always
Speaker 1: thinking about, like what about the ones that we didn't get,
Speaker 1: that didn't get at that chance, and so what how
Speaker 1: when we are like living, when we're when we are
Speaker 1: chasing wonder in our life and enjoying our life, is it?
Speaker 1: Sometimes I feel guilty for trying to have too much
Speaker 1: joy and happiness when I know other people are literally
Speaker 1: like in chains and you know, and like in like
Speaker 1: in life that they can't get out of. And it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I feel so bad, you know, like I feel like
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be able to have all this joy when
Speaker 1: some people have no joy. If that makes sense. Sure,
Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense. And I have definitely
Speaker 1: been there many times. I remember being in Madagascar and
Speaker 1: we were working with UM this large, large population of
Speaker 1: homeless kids. I was sitting on the street talking with
Speaker 1: family of homeless children and they were telling me what
Speaker 1: their life was like and how they would watch these
Speaker 1: two others backs and sleep and shifts because it's so dangerous.
Speaker 1: And then I went back to my comfortable hotel and
Speaker 1: that's when the tears just start flowing, you know, That's
Speaker 1: when I'm just like, why do I have this when
Speaker 1: they have that? And like you said, it's easy for
Speaker 1: that to be a guilt feeling. UM certainly not understanding,
Speaker 1: but the guilt that you feel doesn't serve anybody. I know.
Speaker 1: I know, and I tell myself that, like I know anything.
Speaker 1: And so if if we're doing what we can do,
Speaker 1: and we are helping where we can help, we know
Speaker 1: we can't help everyone, but we're doing what we can do,
Speaker 1: then I honestly believe that if we have joy in
Speaker 1: our lives, it's not just for us, it's for other
Speaker 1: people too. So if I can stave off that guilt
Speaker 1: and allow God's joy to work up in my life,
Speaker 1: it will spill over into other people's lives, and I
Speaker 1: would much rather do that. And you know, I have
Speaker 1: a choice what I dwell on. I can dwell on
Speaker 1: that guilt that I felt really strongly, or I can
Speaker 1: dwell on the gratitude that God not only is allowing
Speaker 1: me to help people, but he's meeting my needs and
Speaker 1: be grateful about it and let that overflow onto others.
Speaker 1: And it's such a delicate balance. And you're right, my
Speaker 1: heart just breaks for people. It's hard for me because
Speaker 1: I'm very, very sensitive to the needs around me and
Speaker 1: I've seen so much, so much. Yeah, I know how
Speaker 1: real it is, but I can't live in a place
Speaker 1: where I'm not able to help anyone because I'm so downtrodden.
Speaker 1: And that makes so much sense that that is such
Speaker 1: an amazing point, and I feel like I need to
Speaker 1: work on that in my mind because like I just
Speaker 1: like fall into these ruts when really the thing and
Speaker 1: I think is so great about what you're saying is
Speaker 1: you've seen it, you feel it, but you choose to
Speaker 1: find a joy in your own life because God gave
Speaker 1: you this life. God put you in this life, and
Speaker 1: you're doing everything that you can in your power of
Speaker 1: who you are as a human to bless the world
Speaker 1: the best way you know how. And that I always
Speaker 1: try to come back to is it's I can't, Like
Speaker 1: you said, you can't save the world. But like we
Speaker 1: all have like callings, we feel led to do certain
Speaker 1: things and help in different ways, and we all have
Speaker 1: different gifts and ways that we feel like we can contribute,
Speaker 1: and it really is our job to follow those into
Speaker 1: like go where God is opening the doors and where
Speaker 1: we feel let it's easy to feel like we're not
Speaker 1: doing enough. Of course, we're never doing enough. There's so
Speaker 1: much to do, But we can't compare ourselves to someone else.
Speaker 1: You know, We're all in different places in our life.
Speaker 1: We all have different gifts and talents, and God has
Speaker 1: different things ahead for all of us, so we we
Speaker 1: can't play that comparison game. And then one situation that
Speaker 1: I learned so much about what you're saying is um
Speaker 1: there was a little girl that I met in Ethiopia,
Speaker 1: and Ethiopia is one of those places that you see
Speaker 1: just the worst of humanity. You see terrible starvation, you
Speaker 1: see um, sex, trafficking, and horrific ways and so we
Speaker 1: were helping this little girl and and feeding her and
Speaker 1: she was doing so well, and so we were going
Speaker 1: back to see her again and I was so excited
Speaker 1: that her name was a Baba, to see you Baba again.
Speaker 1: And on our way there, we heard that she passed away,
Speaker 1: and I was devastated and heartbroken and like, God, why
Speaker 1: did you bring her so far and then have this happen?
Speaker 1: And so I was just going there hopeless, I really was.
Speaker 1: And we got there and Baba wore this little purple
Speaker 1: scarf and the sweetest smile on her face. And I
Speaker 1: got there and I saw her mother with a little
Speaker 1: a girl and a little purple scarf on, and I thought,
Speaker 1: was was the information wrong? Is this a Boba? You know?
Speaker 1: Is she live? And I was so hopeful. And then
Speaker 1: I went and I saw her mom and this was
Speaker 1: a Boba's baby sister. So once again I had this strong,
Speaker 1: strong feeling like I can't lose hope, because yeah, we
Speaker 1: lost her, but there's always someone else who needs us.
Speaker 1: When one thing doesn't go the way we wanted to,
Speaker 1: there's always the next person. There's always the next situation
Speaker 1: in our life where we need to work that hope
Speaker 1: up again, and God will be there in the midst
Speaker 1: of that situation, and hopefully it will go differently. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it will or not, but that little
Speaker 1: girl did well, and so I guess it just taught
Speaker 1: me that, um, it's never over. You know. One thing
Speaker 1: doesn't turn out the way that you want it to,
Speaker 1: but there's always the next situation that will need your
Speaker 1: joy in your hand of God working in their life.
Speaker 1: That is so true. And I think another thing that
Speaker 1: I do that I feel like is something I should
Speaker 1: not do is I project so much my feelings onto circumstances,
Speaker 1: and like I will create entire scenarios about sadness that
Speaker 1: I perceive when sometimes the person living in isn't is
Speaker 1: most likely proceeding a completely different story than what I'm
Speaker 1: making up, you know. So I feel like that's another
Speaker 1: thing that I have to work on instead of just
Speaker 1: like feeling all these feelings that I'm making up. Just like,
Speaker 1: get in there and help where you can, and then
Speaker 1: you have to hand it over to God. What inspired
Speaker 1: you to write this book Chasing Wonder? Because writing a
Speaker 1: book is no small task, and this is such an
Speaker 1: inspired piece of work that you created. Tell me where
Speaker 1: you got your inspiration and how you knew that you
Speaker 1: needed to write this book. I was having this this
Speaker 1: time in my life where I really knew that there
Speaker 1: was something I was supposed to be doing and I
Speaker 1: didn't know what it was, but I knew I wasn't
Speaker 1: doing it. Have you ever had that feeling all the time?
Speaker 1: I feel that like constantly, Yeah, like there's something, there's
Speaker 1: something I know that I'm supposed to be doing and
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. And it just started
Speaker 1: by um making a list. I was on an airplane.
Speaker 1: You've got a lot of free time when it airplane.
Speaker 1: This was pre pandemic. I was making a list of
Speaker 1: things that I had been able to experience, these wonderful
Speaker 1: people I've met, places I'd been, and great experiences. And
Speaker 1: the reason I started doing that is because I wanted
Speaker 1: to remember these things. You know, it's like journalinge. I
Speaker 1: just didn't want to forget the good things that God
Speaker 1: was doing. And I also wanted to focus on my
Speaker 1: gratitude instead of all the hard things and the things
Speaker 1: that didn't go the way that I wanted. So I
Speaker 1: started making this list, and as I began to kind
Speaker 1: of share it with people and just talk about it
Speaker 1: to my friends and passing um they would they would
Speaker 1: say things like, Wow, you know, I wish I could
Speaker 1: do those things, things I wish I could help people. Um,
Speaker 1: I wish I could do different things. And I felt
Speaker 1: so strongly that I want to encourage people that they
Speaker 1: don't have to say I wish because they can and
Speaker 1: it won't be my list. It will be their list,
Speaker 1: which will be so much better for them because it
Speaker 1: will be tailor made for their passions and their skills
Speaker 1: that God has put in them their personalities. So it
Speaker 1: may not be traveling the world, it may be making
Speaker 1: your neighborhood a better place, it may be investing in
Speaker 1: your family in a really powerful way, but it will
Speaker 1: be the things that bring you joy and also bring
Speaker 1: God's wonder to life in your world. So that was
Speaker 1: my my real impetus behind this book. And when I
Speaker 1: started doing this, that weight kind of lifted that I
Speaker 1: wasn't doing something I needed to do, and I just
Speaker 1: realized that, yeah, I really want to get this message
Speaker 1: out to people. Yes, that is such a great point, Ginger,
Speaker 1: because I do feel like a lot of the times
Speaker 1: I feel that heavy weight. It's because I feel like
Speaker 1: I need to be doing something to help others more
Speaker 1: or contributing in a way. But it's like sometimes I
Speaker 1: don't know the next step or where to plug in,
Speaker 1: even though there's so many places in organizations that need help.
Speaker 1: But sometimes feels just like you're lost in the sea
Speaker 1: of what to do does And I get that feeling
Speaker 1: like you had a message of hope that you wanted
Speaker 1: to bring people, because I feel like that is truly
Speaker 1: your mission is you want to see people having hope
Speaker 1: and thriving in this world with their circumstances and then
Speaker 1: their particular life. I do, and even in the midst
Speaker 1: of the really hard stuff, because I'm tired of Christians
Speaker 1: putting on happy faces and not meeting it and not
Speaker 1: dealing with the hard stuff. And so I know that
Speaker 1: that's not what we are supposed to do. And so
Speaker 1: like you were talking about being stuck in that, I
Speaker 1: don't know what the next step is, but I feel
Speaker 1: like there might be something encouraging people in small steps. Okay,
Speaker 1: you don't have to know where the end is, but
Speaker 1: there may be small steps along the way that we'll
Speaker 1: get you closer and closer to what you think that is.
Speaker 1: And as we take those little steps that kind of
Speaker 1: open up God's wonder and joy in our life. We
Speaker 1: begin to see what He's doing. We begin to see
Speaker 1: the things that do really um encourage our passion and
Speaker 1: where we're being used and where we're being successful and happy,
Speaker 1: and so then we have more trust and more faith
Speaker 1: than we take the next step. And I think that's
Speaker 1: really the key is it's not about big life changes,
Speaker 1: it's about small steps closer and closer to who God
Speaker 1: wants us to be. I love that being in the
Speaker 1: end the industry that you're in, do you ever feel
Speaker 1: pressure that you have to like stay up high at
Speaker 1: this like certain level of Godliness? Like what if you're
Speaker 1: just having a down to day and you just want
Speaker 1: to be like annoyed with the world and like you're
Speaker 1: just in a bad mood. Do you feel like you
Speaker 1: have to stay at a level of just like high
Speaker 1: faith all the time or do you allow yourself to
Speaker 1: come down? You know, I do annoyed really well. So
Speaker 1: that's one of my superpowers. And so you're so happy
Speaker 1: and smiley. Oh sometimes, you know, annoyed can be my
Speaker 1: natural state. But I put people around me who I
Speaker 1: can be real with, and I think we have to
Speaker 1: do that. Choose your friends wisely, choose a group of
Speaker 1: people who can be around you. And my coworkers. UM,
Speaker 1: you know, we we can be real with each other
Speaker 1: and we can disagree, but will come back to a
Speaker 1: place because we love each other. UM, We'll come back
Speaker 1: to a place where we know how to move forward.
Speaker 1: And I think that's really the key. UM. I get
Speaker 1: annoyed with so many things. I get annoyed with people
Speaker 1: not moving at the pace I want them to move to.
Speaker 1: I get annoyed at things not going the way I
Speaker 1: want them too, when things aren't communicated the way I
Speaker 1: think they should be, And part of it's always my
Speaker 1: fault too, so I get annoyed with myself. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I I don't believe in UM trying to stay up
Speaker 1: where it's it's not natural. But here is what I
Speaker 1: believe in. I believe that there is so much help
Speaker 1: in those situations that we don't have to stay there.
Speaker 1: I can feel annoyed, deal with it, and then move
Speaker 1: on and not live in that annoyance. That's a great point.
Speaker 1: So you gotta let it come. And I know this
Speaker 1: is what I have to do. I gotta let it come.
Speaker 1: I have to talk to somebody about it if that's
Speaker 1: what I need to do, whether it's for my own
Speaker 1: good or for their own good, and um, then let's
Speaker 1: let's move on and agree how to how to deal
Speaker 1: with it. But we can't live by our feelings, and
Speaker 1: so I think, because sometimes it's so hard, Like in
Speaker 1: this very moment, I'm just gonna tell you, my daughter
Speaker 1: is one and a half and she's down for her nap,
Speaker 1: and the dog just started barking so out late and
Speaker 1: ut my daughter from her nap, like you're off going
Speaker 1: on outside the doors, and like my head is serious,
Speaker 1: and I'm like so annoyed at the dog because I'm like,
Speaker 1: you just ruined an hour of the baby's nap and
Speaker 1: now the whole day is going to be like off
Speaker 1: because you didn't get your sleep. And it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: move on, let that go. Don't hang on because like
Speaker 1: the feeling I got was like a real sense of annoyance.
Speaker 1: But it's like you have to like what do you do?
Speaker 1: Like what do you have a method like technique that
Speaker 1: that annoyance is so real? And I've done it both ways.
Speaker 1: I have I have had the rest of my day
Speaker 1: and probably the next day be ruined, buy it, um,
Speaker 1: And then I've also done it better sometimes where I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: today is not going to go as I expected because
Speaker 1: they're gonna be a little bit grumpy, a little bit sleepy,
Speaker 1: and um, I probably will too. And so within that
Speaker 1: is making that choice that it doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: perfect for me, and I think for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Is that's a big thing. Is I'm a planner, and um,
Speaker 1: I like things to go well, but life could be messy.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be perfect, And I need to
Speaker 1: learn after I uh first complain, I need to learn
Speaker 1: that the next step is, Okay, how do I shift?
Speaker 1: How do I pivot with this and make the best
Speaker 1: of it even though it's not what I was hoping for?
Speaker 1: And you know what's crazy is in this world that
Speaker 1: is so full of so many different energies and life
Speaker 1: forces and just like interactions going on. How wild that
Speaker 1: we actually think we can create a plan and it
Speaker 1: should go according to plan every single day? So right,
Speaker 1: like I think about all the time, I'm like, why
Speaker 1: on earth? I mean, And a lot of times things
Speaker 1: goot do go according to plan? And I know we
Speaker 1: need organization in the world, so we're not chaos, but
Speaker 1: it's just like, it is crazy to think that we
Speaker 1: can organize all of this energy and just make everything
Speaker 1: go to plan, and every person's individual little world that
Speaker 1: they're living in, you know, you're there's just so much happening,
Speaker 1: and we're also overscheduled and overburdened and overwhelmed. And one
Speaker 1: of the things that I decided when our daughters were
Speaker 1: small was that I really wanted to make myself. I
Speaker 1: had to make myself cherish some of the moments and
Speaker 1: create memories that I did not want to lose, because otherwise,
Speaker 1: one day falls after the next, after the next, after
Speaker 1: the next, and um, you've just been in this robotic
Speaker 1: thing of raising kids or going to work or whatever
Speaker 1: it may be, and before you know it, it's like
Speaker 1: when you're driving down the road and you get there
Speaker 1: and you realize, I don't remember how I got here
Speaker 1: at all. I don't I don't remember all those stoplights returns.
Speaker 1: I didn't want my life to be like that. And
Speaker 1: some days, of course, I did it better than others.
Speaker 1: But I really believe in making a conscious effort to
Speaker 1: focus on the little moments that the little hand on
Speaker 1: your face that just set your aren't on fire, you know,
Speaker 1: um and say, Okay, God for this moment, even though
Speaker 1: the rest of the day has been a little bit crappy. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna remember this one and this is where I'm
Speaker 1: going to thank you for it and kind of put
Speaker 1: my focus today. And you said that a lot in
Speaker 1: your book Chasing Wonder, you are trying to help people
Speaker 1: get out of the just the monotony and the routine
Speaker 1: and just like honestly, just like you talked about in
Speaker 1: that car, just like going through your life and not
Speaker 1: even realizing what you're doing, like you're trying to wait
Speaker 1: people up to like say, you can have wonder and
Speaker 1: enjoyment in every day life no matter what's happening, but
Speaker 1: you have to chase it and you have to see it. Right.
Speaker 1: I think it's really easy for us to put so
Speaker 1: much of our life into everything else that we don't
Speaker 1: give ourselves the privilege of enjoying where we are and
Speaker 1: missing so much of the of the joy that we
Speaker 1: should have in our life because we're investing in important things,
Speaker 1: you know, career and our children and all those things
Speaker 1: are hugely important. Investing in others, but there's a little
Speaker 1: bit that has to be understanding that if I don't
Speaker 1: invest in myself, and if if I don't, um take
Speaker 1: the time to get as close as I can to
Speaker 1: to all the good things around me, then I'm not
Speaker 1: going to be what I need to be for anybody else.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be a good mom, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: be good at my job. So I think we have
Speaker 1: to take the time to invest in ourselves, love ourselves
Speaker 1: enough to give that kind of margin in our life
Speaker 1: where we can take some time out to whatever it is.
Speaker 1: It might be something really short, but just take those
Speaker 1: little adventures that will make your life better and make
Speaker 1: sure that your life isn't full of first of all,
Speaker 1: empty adventures. We all want meaning. We want to do
Speaker 1: something that really makes a difference, and that is where
Speaker 1: real joy and real happiness comes from. So UM, I
Speaker 1: hate to see people go through life with regret at
Speaker 1: the end. I don't want anyone to look back and say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I did these things, but um, I don't feel like
Speaker 1: it did anything that that was really purposeful. And I
Speaker 1: told yeah, that's greatly believe that God has something amazing,
Speaker 1: yes purposeful for each one of us. I agree. I
Speaker 1: think that we all came here with a divine purpose.
Speaker 1: And I think that like every single person has a
Speaker 1: different pool and calling on their heart and you know it,
Speaker 1: like you can feel it, because like when you're in
Speaker 1: your life and you're not walking on down the road
Speaker 1: that your soul wants you to, you feel resistant, you
Speaker 1: feel angry, you feel regrets, you're mad, like you know
Speaker 1: you're in a bad noodle all the time, you have
Speaker 1: like resentment all that it's just because you're you know
Speaker 1: that you're supposed to be doing something else, that your
Speaker 1: soul you're being, came here to do something else. And
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think we all have that calling.
Speaker 1: And I oh, based on financial situations and life situations,
Speaker 1: it's sometimes impossible for everyone to make that their primary job.
Speaker 1: But I do think if everyone could tap into their
Speaker 1: calling on some level and are pursuing what they feel
Speaker 1: like their soul came here to do, I I believe
Speaker 1: that would create so much more happiness within people in
Speaker 1: a collective. In general. I agree with you, and I
Speaker 1: think there are certain things that you can look for
Speaker 1: in your life to help you do that. So even
Speaker 1: if you're not in the job that would be your
Speaker 1: dream job. Okay, let's let's not think about that right now.
Speaker 1: But what are you passionate about? What are you good at?
Speaker 1: You know what makes you happy? And make sure that
Speaker 1: you give yourself some time to do those things and
Speaker 1: don't always think of them just in the packaged way
Speaker 1: that everybody else does. There may be some way, something
Speaker 1: that is in your future that will come out of
Speaker 1: those things that you love. And that's that's how life works.
Speaker 1: We have these things that are important to us because
Speaker 1: they're meant to be used for our good and for
Speaker 1: other people's good. So we do feel trapped sometimes, and
Speaker 1: there are ways to get unstuck, even if your situation
Speaker 1: is not what you would want it to be. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you you started to list a few things, but like,
Speaker 1: what are what are some ways, like some tangible ways
Speaker 1: that people can get unstuck if they feel stuck and
Speaker 1: they want to move towards their passion, Like what what
Speaker 1: would you suggest? I would begin by asking those questions
Speaker 1: and making some lists. What are things that you really love?
Speaker 1: What makes you happy? Um? What? As you're writing those
Speaker 1: things down, the easiest thing to do is to start
Speaker 1: looking for those things, because the more you look for
Speaker 1: things that you really love. The more you'll see because
Speaker 1: you're just paying attention, and that will bring a lot
Speaker 1: more of that happiness and that joy into your life.
Speaker 1: But the next step is even further than it's okay,
Speaker 1: what can I do with this passion that I have?
Speaker 1: You know, do you are you're really good at um
Speaker 1: dealing with kids? Or are you really good at organization?
Speaker 1: Or are you a great painter but you don't have
Speaker 1: time for it because of all these other things in
Speaker 1: your life? Well, what can you say no to? We
Speaker 1: have to say no more often that great so that
Speaker 1: we have some margin in our life to spend on
Speaker 1: these things, these talents that God has given us, whether
Speaker 1: it's music, whether it's art, whether it's just helping someone
Speaker 1: else organize their closet. If you love it and you
Speaker 1: do it, well find a way to get out there
Speaker 1: and do it. So those are a few things. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, there will be different phases in your life
Speaker 1: that you can't do as much as other phases. Also,
Speaker 1: when my kids were a little I couldn't do everything
Speaker 1: I wanted to do, so I started by doing what
Speaker 1: I what I could and and loving it. But you know,
Speaker 1: now my husband and I are in a phase where
Speaker 1: we have a little bit more leeway, a little bit
Speaker 1: but more time to do those things. So remember that
Speaker 1: there are seasons that are always changing, and keep those
Speaker 1: passions stirred up and alive. But you never know what
Speaker 1: the future will bring, so don't lose hope for what
Speaker 1: can come to. Oh. I love that, keep those passions
Speaker 1: stirred up and alive because just because you're in a
Speaker 1: season right now where you don't have much, like you said,
Speaker 1: margin of time outside of what you have to get done,
Speaker 1: figure out what you can say no to to keep
Speaker 1: that passion stirred up and alive. I love that until
Speaker 1: the season comes when you can give it more attention.
Speaker 1: But you've got to keep the energy going because you've
Speaker 1: got to keep it moving. You gotta keep it. You
Speaker 1: have to keep it alive so it can keep gaining
Speaker 1: momentum within your life and bringing you opportunities. And then
Speaker 1: eventually you get to a point when you're ready to
Speaker 1: have this be more of your focus. Exactly, you got
Speaker 1: to keep that stirred up and you have to have
Speaker 1: the opportunity to develop those those skills that are in
Speaker 1: your life. And it's you know, it doesn't always come
Speaker 1: when you want it to, are exactly in the way
Speaker 1: that you wanted to. But um, you're not on your own.
Speaker 1: I think that's huge is I'm not trying to do
Speaker 1: everything by myself. I have hope and I have trust
Speaker 1: that God is kind of walking with me through all
Speaker 1: of it, and that in his timing he helps bring
Speaker 1: those things to life as well, so that that makes
Speaker 1: a big difference. And in my book, I end each
Speaker 1: chapter with a step by step. It's just little encouragements
Speaker 1: to help you so you're not feeling like I can't
Speaker 1: do this big thing, so there's nothing I can do.
Speaker 1: I mean, like one of the examples just to add
Speaker 1: some spice to your life is buy a different cereal.
Speaker 1: Like how simple and insignificant is that. But sometimes I
Speaker 1: just need something new. I just need to try something different.
Speaker 1: So whatever it may be, there are little steps that
Speaker 1: can help you along the way. And that's so true.
Speaker 1: You get stuck in a rut and instead of just
Speaker 1: like cutting your hair, dying a pink, like moving move
Speaker 1: into you know, another country and trying to like start over,
Speaker 1: like just just start change your cereal, change something small.
Speaker 1: You don't have to throw the whole baby I want
Speaker 1: the bash bath war. You can just slow we start
Speaker 1: trying to spice it up. That's great advice. And sometimes
Speaker 1: you realize you don't even need a big change, you
Speaker 1: just needed something to be shook. Yes, And how many
Speaker 1: times do we make big changes that we regret, Like
Speaker 1: oh my god, yes, yeah, So don't cut your hair
Speaker 1: when you're mad at your spouse, you know, don't. I've
Speaker 1: done that and I've died it now. It was a
Speaker 1: big regreat me too. We've all been there. So what
Speaker 1: is it like? What have you learned walking side by
Speaker 1: side with Joyce Meyer, who was one of the most
Speaker 1: influential women and like we were talked about in in
Speaker 1: the spiritual world. What is it like being right by
Speaker 1: her side? What have you learned? What are some of
Speaker 1: the biggest takeaways? Oh? Many, many things. Um. One of
Speaker 1: the one of the greatest things I think is that
Speaker 1: I have seen her be real and be who she
Speaker 1: is and not put on fake christian Um. Everything's great.
Speaker 1: And so I've also seen the fact that doesn't matter. Like,
Speaker 1: for instance, we could be in front of a huge crowd.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've been in front of five thousand people
Speaker 1: and she's the same there as she is in a
Speaker 1: in a tiny, tiny village out in Papua New Guinea
Speaker 1: where she's talking to thirty people. You know, give your
Speaker 1: all to everything that you do, and I've learned so
Speaker 1: much about that. But one of the most important things
Speaker 1: I've learned for myself is in walking with her now
Speaker 1: over eighteen years, is that I am not meant to
Speaker 1: be what she is, and that we cannot be what
Speaker 1: I am exactly. We complement each other, and I, as
Speaker 1: so many people have, you know, would go through a
Speaker 1: phase where you compare and you're saying, I'm not accomplishing enough.
Speaker 1: I should be more like Joyce. I should. I know
Speaker 1: I'm not to do what she's doing, but there's a
Speaker 1: reason that I'm doing what I'm doing. And so I've
Speaker 1: really learned that by being um walking this journey with her,
Speaker 1: and I think it's one of the greatest lessons I've
Speaker 1: learned is I will not be happy if I'm comparing
Speaker 1: myself because there's no comparison to Joyce. Well, and that's
Speaker 1: but there's no comparison to you. And I think that
Speaker 1: that is the lesson that it's the hardest for so
Speaker 1: many of us to learn, even when we know all
Speaker 1: have all the tools, and we know know how it
Speaker 1: really is supposed to be and how we all are
Speaker 1: uniquely divinely made. All that you still get in the
Speaker 1: middle of life and you can't help it there. But
Speaker 1: it also I feel like that is the biggest moment
Speaker 1: of like self self revelation, clarity, maybe like coming to
Speaker 1: terms with your own spiritual self. On on the truest level,
Speaker 1: is when you know that you have identified what you
Speaker 1: are good at, you have found worth in your life.
Speaker 1: You know that like whatever, the life you've created for
Speaker 1: yourself is the one that you're supposed to live. But
Speaker 1: yet you can still be in the midst of all
Speaker 1: the amazing other people doing great things and you still
Speaker 1: know that you are doing your life and you're so
Speaker 1: content doing that and not feeling, like you said, learning
Speaker 1: that you don't have to try to do this because
Speaker 1: that person does this or that. And i feel like
Speaker 1: I've struggled with that so much, but I've coming into that.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm still in that season where I'm like
Speaker 1: owning myself. But it's like that is that's a moment
Speaker 1: of peace and freedom. It is it's so free and
Speaker 1: to realize and remember and hold on too, because sometimes
Speaker 1: we can know it, but that's not the same as
Speaker 1: holding onto it and and counting on it and clinging
Speaker 1: to it for dear life, that there is enough success
Speaker 1: and joy for everyone. I don't need someone else's success
Speaker 1: and I don't need their joy because there is enough
Speaker 1: of my own and it's bally made for me. And
Speaker 1: that God has such a love for me and who
Speaker 1: I am that he creates did me just like this,
Speaker 1: and all my faults and all my failures, that he
Speaker 1: wanted to use those things for good things for me,
Speaker 1: and so holding onto that with all my might. And
Speaker 1: also I think too, it's like we're all a piece
Speaker 1: of this giant puzzle, and you enjoys aligned amidst them,
Speaker 1: your whole team, Like I'm sure there are so many
Speaker 1: people involved in this team to make the joys in surprise,
Speaker 1: like the global sensation that she is, she is the
Speaker 1: face of it, like she was given the gift to
Speaker 1: speak these words out loud. She has she has that
Speaker 1: it's like who she is, the way she delivers the
Speaker 1: story she wants to tell, the way she perceives life
Speaker 1: and God and all of it. Like it's like her
Speaker 1: gift to like translate that and to have people hear it.
Speaker 1: But your gift is to help. I mean I don't
Speaker 1: of course I'm not like saying this is your gift.
Speaker 1: I don't know you that well. You know you're gift
Speaker 1: more than me, But it seems like you are someone
Speaker 1: who can like bring in all of your gifts and talents.
Speaker 1: You can help organize and you can help like build
Speaker 1: her gift and what can change people with her words
Speaker 1: on a on a regular basis on this Latin this
Speaker 1: platform that she speaks. You can help prepare her for
Speaker 1: that so it can be heard, and so you are helping.
Speaker 1: It's all a part of like the bigger picture, and
Speaker 1: every different person has to come together. So yes, someone
Speaker 1: is the face per saying more than someone else, but
Speaker 1: it is the whole village that makes it happen, and
Speaker 1: every single person has to have their gift for the
Speaker 1: village to work in the message to be heard. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And sometimes we look at our own gifts and we
Speaker 1: think they're not good enough compared to somebody else's or
Speaker 1: that um, we wish it was what somebody else had,
Speaker 1: and that's when our gifts are really really stifled. Like
Speaker 1: I I have this um creative passion that I love,
Speaker 1: and if I said instead, no, I'm gonna go do
Speaker 1: this other thing, I wouldn't do it well. Like if
Speaker 1: I said, Okay, no instead, I'm gonna go have a
Speaker 1: music career that is not right for me, it would
Speaker 1: be a horrific failure. And so yeah, really being able
Speaker 1: to concentrate on what sparks our energy and where we
Speaker 1: think God is leading us and what He's helping us
Speaker 1: to do, so that we're not just wanting to be
Speaker 1: or do what somebody else is. And it does. You're right,
Speaker 1: it takes all of us because without so many different talents,
Speaker 1: do you think that a website or a television show
Speaker 1: or anything else can ever come together? I think every
Speaker 1: one of us and everyone has their own creative genius,
Speaker 1: but they give to it. And a lot of people
Speaker 1: are more behind the scenes and you might not even
Speaker 1: know that they're there, but they are integral pieces of
Speaker 1: this picture. And I think that everyone just needs to
Speaker 1: know that success, like you said, there's enough success and
Speaker 1: enjoy for everyone, and it comes in different in different varieties,
Speaker 1: Like success and joy for you is going to look
Speaker 1: different than success and enjoy for me, it's gonna look
Speaker 1: different than success and enjoy for joy. It is going
Speaker 1: to look different for everyone, but it is yours. So
Speaker 1: whatever comes your way based on your talents being given
Speaker 1: to the world, and that is what has meant for you,
Speaker 1: and you've got to bask in it. And instead of
Speaker 1: like missing the joy, you have to know that, like
Speaker 1: this is from the fruits of your labor and the
Speaker 1: fruits of your passion, and however it comes to you,
Speaker 1: you have to like see it and love it. And
Speaker 1: it's like, instead of what you're saying, wishing it was
Speaker 1: something else, because what we're projecting on what something else
Speaker 1: might even be. What if what we have is the
Speaker 1: greatest feeling you could ever have, but we're not even
Speaker 1: noticing it because we think it should be something different
Speaker 1: when we say we're holding joy and passion and success
Speaker 1: and love in our hands, but we're too blind and
Speaker 1: by others to even notice it. Yeah, you're so right,
Speaker 1: And that that's why I talk about chasing wonder. I
Speaker 1: love it. I think that we really have to be
Speaker 1: willing to get up and chase after um make a
Speaker 1: effort and not just sit back and wait for things
Speaker 1: to fall into our laps, and so many people are
Speaker 1: are working really hard, they're really really busy. It's not
Speaker 1: that they're lazy, but are they giving themselves the opportunity
Speaker 1: to chase after what they really need in their life,
Speaker 1: to fulfill their calling, to fulfill what will give them
Speaker 1: purpose and passion and what God has for them. So
Speaker 1: it's not just about running, it's about running towards the
Speaker 1: right things and giving yourself that opportunity to say, you know,
Speaker 1: even if I don't know what it is, I have
Speaker 1: hope that there's something good for me ahead and so
Speaker 1: I'm going to start looking for it. I'm gonna start
Speaker 1: chasing after it. And that that is a wonderful place
Speaker 1: to start. I love that. And you talked about we
Speaker 1: talked about like finding a career that you love and
Speaker 1: like writing things down. Would you say that sort of
Speaker 1: goes hand in hand with like finding your calling. Because
Speaker 1: a lot of people hear this word being thrown around calling,
Speaker 1: Oh God called me, this is a calling on my heart.
Speaker 1: I heard this, This is a calling. People are like,
Speaker 1: what is a calling? You know? What does that mean?
Speaker 1: What does that mean? So can you explain what a
Speaker 1: calling means? And would you say that you kind of
Speaker 1: discover the calling in the same way that you discover
Speaker 1: what you love or how would someone identify their calling?
Speaker 1: When when I think of God's calling on our life,
Speaker 1: the important thing to me is that I can't expect
Speaker 1: to figure God out right, So I want to hear
Speaker 1: his voice. I want him to send me an email
Speaker 1: that says, Hi, gender, this is what my calling is
Speaker 1: for you in your life, and you should do and
Speaker 1: I'll be man. If God would just into a step
Speaker 1: by step email when nothing, I would love that. Give
Speaker 1: me some directions and I will run with it. But
Speaker 1: it it doesn't work that way all the time. And
Speaker 1: what I have found through my career, so you know,
Speaker 1: started in in news and then it went to documentary
Speaker 1: producing and five years in like TV production, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: So I co hosted a talk show for eighteen years,
Speaker 1: and then it came to Joycepire Ministries and was doing
Speaker 1: documentary work before that and so many different things. And
Speaker 1: so what I have learned is first of all, that
Speaker 1: God's calling is for different things at different phases in
Speaker 1: our life. And so you can't feel bad if you
Speaker 1: think you're missing it right now, because God loves us
Speaker 1: so much that if our motives. Our desire is to
Speaker 1: honor him and to really find what he wants us
Speaker 1: to do. He will use us where we are, so
Speaker 1: it's not like I have to be over here. This
Speaker 1: is where God wanted me, and so I'm I'm missing it.
Speaker 1: We don't miss God that way. He loves us so
Speaker 1: much that he nudges us all along the path and
Speaker 1: keeps us where he can use us. Now, there are
Speaker 1: times that we make some crazy right turns. I know
Speaker 1: that I've done some things that are like WHOA and
Speaker 1: I need I need to come back. And but what
Speaker 1: I have found is even in those things, the things
Speaker 1: that I was thinking, What does what does this job
Speaker 1: that I'm doing right now have to do with anything?
Speaker 1: You know, I don't feel a passion for it. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure what it what it's serving. There will come
Speaker 1: a time later down the road where I needed what
Speaker 1: I learned there that it really makes a difference. So
Speaker 1: nothing is wasted in your life. I get that. So
Speaker 1: you're calling is not so specific that you have to
Speaker 1: be afraid to miss it. If if your heart is
Speaker 1: seeking after that, God is a gentleman and kind of
Speaker 1: helps us find it. So you're you're calling may have
Speaker 1: a wide range that you can fit within, and you
Speaker 1: can find many things that bring you purpose and fulfillment
Speaker 1: um and not just an empty accomplishment and not temporary happiness.
Speaker 1: Joy is so much different than happiness. You can have
Speaker 1: joy when uh, you're not real happy today, you're not
Speaker 1: thrilled about everything that's happening. But I still know I'm
Speaker 1: heading in the right direction and I have a God
Speaker 1: who loves me. That that's where joy is so different
Speaker 1: than something temporary. So I just don't ever want to
Speaker 1: be um making people feel like, oh, God has this
Speaker 1: one calling for you, and if you miss it, then
Speaker 1: it's over. You know, it's all done for you. That
Speaker 1: that is not how this works. Seek after God and
Speaker 1: he promises that he will be there to help you
Speaker 1: find him. That's a really great way of explaining it,
Speaker 1: because you have like a general idea of like what
Speaker 1: you feel drawn to do, but it could like manifest
Speaker 1: in so many different ways, so many different ways that
Speaker 1: we can't even imagine and we can't prepare for. So
Speaker 1: just keep walking towards it and trying to seek God
Speaker 1: and just sort of like relinquished control. Honestly, that's the
Speaker 1: hard thing though, isn't it hard? Oh, it's so hard.
Speaker 1: I hate that. I hate it. I hate it. I
Speaker 1: hate letting go of control. Oh my god, but you're
Speaker 1: so right. You're so right, And there are those times
Speaker 1: where it's so scary. Fear is a big thing here, right,
Speaker 1: If if you are really chasing after wonder, you've you've
Speaker 1: got to be able to overcome some of your fears,
Speaker 1: or at least do it afraid, go ahead and do
Speaker 1: love that. Oh, because there are so many things letting
Speaker 1: go of control, um, having things not go right, the
Speaker 1: fear of rejection. Uh that there's so many big things
Speaker 1: that stop us. But if we can push through those
Speaker 1: and and give it just a little, a little, try
Speaker 1: a small step, and see what happens with it, then
Speaker 1: it starts to push the door open for other things
Speaker 1: to happen and it and it really helps us to
Speaker 1: have faith that I can let go of control because
Speaker 1: I'm in good hands. I love that. So I just
Speaker 1: want to throw a few words out at you, and
Speaker 1: you just tell me what you think, like thought, Okay.
Speaker 1: Love is Love is so much bigger than we can
Speaker 1: ever understand. Love is what makes life worth living, and
Speaker 1: it's what fills our lives with purpose and joy. It's
Speaker 1: not a feeling, it's a decision. The point of life
Speaker 1: is mm hm. The point of life is growing closer
Speaker 1: and closer to the God who created you, learning more
Speaker 1: about him and seeing more of his wonder in the world,
Speaker 1: and knowing that it's not a temporary, finite set of years,
Speaker 1: that our life is so far beyond what we can
Speaker 1: understand or imagine in our own finite understanding. Humanity needs
Speaker 1: m Humanity needs more real love. Humanity needs to understand that,
Speaker 1: in the midst of heartache and disappointment, that there is
Speaker 1: one love that is so unconditional and so big that
Speaker 1: it overshadows everything else. I love it. So I always
Speaker 1: wrap up with one question, which is leave your light,
Speaker 1: And basically it is just what do you want people
Speaker 1: to know? Super open, inded. I want people to know
Speaker 1: that there is so much more than what they are
Speaker 1: seeing in this very moment, that there is so much
Speaker 1: more love, and so much more joy, and so much
Speaker 1: more potential for you. I really want people to know
Speaker 1: that because I think we close off are our lives
Speaker 1: and our hopes and our potential because we don't see
Speaker 1: the wonder of God around us and I want I
Speaker 1: want people to know more than anything that their adventures
Speaker 1: are so much bigger than they ever could have imagined,
Speaker 1: and so much more meaningful than they ever could have imagined.
Speaker 1: But there are steps that they have to take, and
Speaker 1: there they need to work up their courage. They can
Speaker 1: be brave with God's help. But it's all things that
Speaker 1: they can do. It's possible, Okay. And you break this
Speaker 1: down in your book, Chasing Wonders, so everybody go get
Speaker 1: your copy. It is fresh off the grill and just
Speaker 1: just coming out into the world, so hot off the press.
Speaker 1: Congratulations on your book. Thank you so much for this interview. Gender.
Speaker 1: It really was amazing to have such a candid conversation
Speaker 1: with you, diving into something deep questions I've had about
Speaker 1: God and spirituality. And thank you for being so real
Speaker 1: and honest us. I really really appreciate your honesty and
Speaker 1: just your vulnerability, Caroline. I've loved it. I I love
Speaker 1: this opportunity to dig deep and get real and just
Speaker 1: talk about the hard stuff you gotta do it. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Well, thank you for joining me and
Speaker 1: see you see you around the world all these days,
Speaker 1: I hope so yes. Okay, Bye, Gender, bye,