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Speaker 1: On the beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies

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Speaker 1: have women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends

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Speaker 1: and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef

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Speaker 1: invest start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hi, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Beck del Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Darante, and today we are unlocking

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Speaker 1: an episode from our patreon a k A Matreon feed.

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Speaker 1: Ever heard of it? And if you haven't, it's time

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Speaker 1: to get wise or not. We won't know. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: and maybe you're like, oh cool, they unlocked one now

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Speaker 1: I don't need to pay for it again. We won't know,

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Speaker 1: but you know, don't do that. But don't do that. Also,

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Speaker 1: there's still like dozens and dozens and dozens of episodes

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Speaker 1: that will never unlock. There's like almost a hundred at

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Speaker 1: this point. This show has been on for six hundred

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Speaker 1: years at this point. It's true, we're unlocking the Lolita

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Speaker 1: episode from our patreon ak matreon today, which we will

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Speaker 1: get to in a second. But if you're interested in

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Speaker 1: more episodes that are just Caitlin and myself kind of

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Speaker 1: having a loose fun, this is not actually not a

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Speaker 1: good example of that. But but having normally though having

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Speaker 1: like a one on one discussion about a movie, you

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Speaker 1: can get two episodes on top of the regular feed

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Speaker 1: there every month for simply five bucks a month, that's all.

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Speaker 1: And there's like there's like seventy or eighty episodes in there.

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Speaker 1: If you've run out of main feed episodes, yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot. We should probably the like we should, I

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Speaker 1: guess we should say what the Bechtel Cast is because

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Speaker 1: we are in the main feed. Yes, so if this

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Speaker 1: is your first episode tuning into Lolita, we should go

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Speaker 1: off and next we'll tell you what the show is. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So the Bechtel Cast is our podcast in which we

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Speaker 1: discuss films through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel

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Speaker 1: test merely as inspiration for a jumping off point to

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Speaker 1: initiate larger, more in depth conversations. And Jamie, what on

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Speaker 1: earth is the Bechtel test? Well, the Bechtel test is

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Speaker 1: a media metric invented by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes

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Speaker 1: called the Bechtel Wallace test, that requires that, for our purposes,

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Speaker 1: multiple interpretations of this damn thing. Uh, but for our

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Speaker 1: purposes requires that there be two characters with names of

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Speaker 1: a marginalized gender talking to each other about something other

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Speaker 1: than a man for simply two lines of dialogue. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen in movies quite a bit, not enough. And furthermore,

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Speaker 1: if it does happen, it doesn't even mean that the

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Speaker 1: movie is good to women. Sometimes it just happens by

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Speaker 1: mistake accident. But it's it's aren't jumping off point for

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Speaker 1: for a larger discussion, and uh, today we are talking

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Speaker 1: about Lolita because well, first of all, I guess we

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Speaker 1: should say this. This episode was recorded about three months ago,

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Speaker 1: was recorded like towards the beginning of August. I think, yes,

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Speaker 1: it was one of your birthday month picks on the Matrion.

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Speaker 1: And normally you would choose your favorite movies for your

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Speaker 1: birthday month and the Matreon, but that is not the

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Speaker 1: case here. The reason the reason we covered Lolita is

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Speaker 1: because throughout the summer and into the fall and now

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Speaker 1: it's winter and just time keuthes continuing and things just

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Speaker 1: don't get any better. But we've I've been working on

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Speaker 1: a show that comes out. If you're listening to this

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Speaker 1: on the day of release, starting November twenty three and

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Speaker 1: working on a podcast that tracks the history of the

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Speaker 1: story of Lolita. So I say this story because the

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Speaker 1: adaptations are just out of control, bad and just misrepresenting

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Speaker 1: what the story is really about. I feel what You

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Speaker 1: can listen to the show for for for nine hours

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Speaker 1: of expansion on that. But uh, basically, yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: the first attempt to adapt Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov to

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Speaker 1: a um to a larger medium, and there's just it's

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Speaker 1: so okay. First of all, plug Lolita podcast comes out

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Speaker 1: on November twenty three, and then it's released every Monday. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be ten episodes. We're we're gonna be talking

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Speaker 1: with I keep saying it's so, I keep saying we

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Speaker 1: because I'm so used to like not being alone. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not involved in this. It is just me. It's

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Speaker 1: just it's I say we. And then I'm also just

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Speaker 1: like me and just all of uh my my friends

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Speaker 1: that live inside of my brain. But uh, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm talking to a lot of people about just

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Speaker 1: kind of like tracking this story and analyzing the book.

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Speaker 1: And then I talked to several psychologists who have worked

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Speaker 1: with victims of child abuse, Um, I talk with people

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Speaker 1: who are involved in some of these adaptations. I talked

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Speaker 1: to people who really like the book, people who really

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Speaker 1: don't like the book. But as far as the movies go,

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty uncontroversial opinion to feel that they all

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Speaker 1: aggressively suck and push just really harmful messages that are

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Speaker 1: very of the time and also by of the time.

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Speaker 1: I mean still now this is like still, like you

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Speaker 1: know are our calls were Still has a gigantic issue

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Speaker 1: with sexualizing young girls specifically, but also just young people

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Speaker 1: in general. So that's what the show is about. It's

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Speaker 1: it's a little heavier than the Bechdel cast, but um,

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Speaker 1: if that's something you're interested in, I try to really

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Speaker 1: examine it from all perspectives and bring in a lot

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Speaker 1: of different voices to discuss it, and I hope you'll listen.

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Speaker 1: Uh So that yeah Monday is starting November twenty three.

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Speaker 1: And Oh the reason I was saying all of that

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Speaker 1: is first of all, because I should. Second of all,

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Speaker 1: because I think that a lot of my thoughts on

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Speaker 1: this movie have like not changed entirely. I still think

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Speaker 1: the movie absolutely sucks eggs, but but for like way

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Speaker 1: more specific reasons than I did four months ago. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I don't necessarily stand by to the word everything

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Speaker 1: I say in this episode, but uh, the movie is bad.

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Speaker 1: Well that's that's the beauty of just being alive and

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Speaker 1: being a person. Here you can learn more things and

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Speaker 1: your mind can change and oh you growth. You love

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Speaker 1: to see it. And that's what the Bechtel Cast is

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Speaker 1: all about. Growing, changing, acknowledging faults from the past, and

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Speaker 1: moving forward in a healthy and productive way. Who um,

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Speaker 1: so yes, I was just really listening back to the

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Speaker 1: episode and we you know, there's mentions to I Frankenstein.

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Speaker 1: Why because it's the other the other episode we did

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Speaker 1: on the Matren for your birthday month, so there will

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Speaker 1: be references to Jamie's birthday and I Frankenstein and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: So if you're just like, what, that's why my birthday

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Speaker 1: was in August. And I honestly think and this is

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Speaker 1: like not even I know that there's no way for

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Speaker 1: me to say this in a non biased way, but

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Speaker 1: the I Frankenstein episode alone is enough reason to sign

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Speaker 1: up for the Matreon, in my opinion, one of our best.

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Speaker 1: It's not Jamie. This is not opinion, this is fact.

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Speaker 1: Very viable. Um so yes, if you, if you, I

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Speaker 1: mean just what this is all to say, folks, that

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Speaker 1: you should get on get on the Matreon train, you know,

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Speaker 1: for I Frankenstein alone, among many other films that again

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Speaker 1: will remain locked. We're not gonna just keep unlocking episodes

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Speaker 1: all willy nilly. Some of them are in the vault.

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Speaker 1: This is a rare occurrence. Yeah, so yeah, enjoy our

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Speaker 1: Lolita episode to the extent that you're able. Lolita podcast

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Speaker 1: I recommend, and again I'm completely unbiased. It's just, you know,

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Speaker 1: just a recommendation, and I haven't been sweating about this

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Speaker 1: for half of the year. Well it's someone who is

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Speaker 1: again not involved in Little to podcast. I also recommend.

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Speaker 1: Hell yeah, without further ado, here is our unlocked Matreon

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Speaker 1: episode about Stanley Kubrick's Lolita. Hate that run of words.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy del cast high Matre. Jamie, it's your birthday. It's

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Speaker 1: Jamie's Chaos month on the Matreon, and boy do we

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Speaker 1: have a chaotic month for you this year. We just

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Speaker 1: made a last minute adjustment to my birthday month in

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Speaker 1: a way that I really think makes the whole feed vibrate.

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Speaker 1: It's it's so today obviously we're We're doing Lolita, a

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Speaker 1: very heavy, serious movie with a lot of heavy serious

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Speaker 1: things to discuss, and then at the end of the month,

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Speaker 1: as a palate cleanser, we're going to be doing I Frankenstein,

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Speaker 1: which is a movie that you don't even need to

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Speaker 1: watch because it's more fun for us to tell you

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Speaker 1: about it than to watch it. You should still watch

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Speaker 1: it because Bill and I he and I also feel like, genuinely,

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Speaker 1: if it came down to it, Aaron Eckhart would pay

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Speaker 1: you human dollars to not watch it, which is a

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Speaker 1: reason to watch it. It's a gritty Frankenstein movie. But

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Speaker 1: here's a twist. It's about do you remember I know,

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Speaker 1: I know this movie so well. I Frankenstein markets itself

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Speaker 1: as a movie about I callma Frankenstein, but it's actually

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Speaker 1: about the war of demons versus gargoyles. I vaguely remember that.

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Speaker 1: But all the gargoyles, the gargoyles are the heroes, which

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Speaker 1: I also like kept being like, wait, gargoyles are heroes.

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Speaker 1: They are in this movie, and if you've seen the

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Speaker 1: animated series Gargoyles, you know that they are. I saw that.

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Speaker 1: Everyone roasts me for not, I just didn't see it.

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Speaker 1: I was watching Powerpuff Girls. I don't know what I

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Speaker 1: was doing. But for me, I was like, wait, I

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Speaker 1: thought gargoyles were supposed to be mean to you, but

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Speaker 1: the been in this one. They're the heroes and they

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Speaker 1: are all royalty and they're dressed like they went to

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Speaker 1: ye party. So by party, I Frankenstein, I exactly, it's

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Speaker 1: all connected. Um. So we're gonna start with heavy episode

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna end with a light episode, and that's

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Speaker 1: going to be my birthday month because I contain multitudes.

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Speaker 1: But today we are talking about the nineteen sixty two

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Speaker 1: adaptation of Lolita by feminist icon Stanley Kubrick. We should

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Speaker 1: just at the very top here, since we're attempting to

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Speaker 1: be better at given content warnings for the content of episodes.

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Speaker 1: There's obviously a content warning here for statutory rape, child

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Speaker 1: sexual abuse. Yeah. There there's I mean, general predatory behavior

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Speaker 1: and also murder. Um so there there is just the

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Speaker 1: general brutalization of women and children is going to come

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Speaker 1: up in this episode. Um. And I guess if you

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Speaker 1: weren't familiar with the content of Lolita, that it's that's about.

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Speaker 1: So if you'd rather skip this one. We totally understand

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Speaker 1: if you'd like to hang around. There's so much to

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Speaker 1: talk about that I think is very revealing about our culture. UM,

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Speaker 1: so let's get started. I guess I'll contextualize this a

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Speaker 1: little bit by saying I chose this movie. I am

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Speaker 1: very curious as to what compelled you do want to

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Speaker 1: do this for your birthday? Of times, Well, I'm doing

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Speaker 1: it for I mean, I'm not doing it as a

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Speaker 1: gift to myself. This is very painful material to go through. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I'm doing it because I've been thinking about it

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Speaker 1: quite a bit lately. Because advertisement forthcoming, I am um

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Speaker 1: writing and producing an entire podcast that is about the

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Speaker 1: cultural impact of the book Lolita, because that's something that

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Speaker 1: I've always had a fixation on. I think it's very

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Speaker 1: telling and an interesting if disturbing obviously, but that it

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Speaker 1: was a book that I because I guess we should

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Speaker 1: just kind of talk about the property versus the movie,

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Speaker 1: because this is a movie that is not particularly remembered,

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Speaker 1: But that's going to be the jumping off point for

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Speaker 1: our discussion. In any case, Lolito was a book that

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Speaker 1: I came across when I was twelve because not good

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Speaker 1: because it had been recommended to me by Lemony Snicket

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Speaker 1: in a magazine and like, take a second with that. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So I came across this book really really early on

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Speaker 1: because I was obsessed with Lemony Sicket books. I thought

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Speaker 1: they were the best in the world. I still pretty

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Speaker 1: much do. Uh. The author I have some issues with,

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Speaker 1: but the But when I was twelve, I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to read what he was reading, and know what, you know,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be like him. And so I read

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Speaker 1: in an interview in two thousand and five what his

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Speaker 1: favorite book was, and he said in a children's magazine,

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Speaker 1: Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov is my favorite book. And so

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Speaker 1: I went to the library and I got the book,

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Speaker 1: and I read the book, and I didn't understand the book,

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Speaker 1: and I took all the wrong messages away from the book.

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Speaker 1: And it's been a point of fascination for me ever since.

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Speaker 1: Because now obviously I am an adult and I have

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Speaker 1: read the book many times. I wouldn't say it is

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Speaker 1: my favorite book by any stretch, but I think it

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Speaker 1: is a very good book. And I reread it just

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Speaker 1: recently to like prepare for this podcast that I've been

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Speaker 1: working on, and what I find this interesting about Lolita

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Speaker 1: is that it seems like it's cultural legacy is just

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Speaker 1: taken completely out of context with what the story is about,

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Speaker 1: because you think, like I guess, when I was going

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Speaker 1: back to reread it, I was like, I wonder if

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Speaker 1: you know, just from because I hadn't read it since college.

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Speaker 1: I was like, is there any ambiguity about what the

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Speaker 1: nature of how Humberd Humberd is treating Lolita is? Is

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Speaker 1: there any way? Because I feel like our culture has

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Speaker 1: either framed it as a like doomed love story or

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Speaker 1: kind of just like a fashion aesthetic for young girls

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Speaker 1: that you see pop up in a lot of Japanese

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Speaker 1: fashion lines and also in Lana del Rey's music are

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Speaker 1: the two main places you will find it. But that's

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Speaker 1: like the Lolita brand now is it's clothing and it's

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Speaker 1: associated with this tragic love story, which is how I

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Speaker 1: think Humbritton Lolita are framed, and no small part because

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Speaker 1: of how this movie does it. But in any case,

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Speaker 1: I went back to read the book and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if the book is contributing to this problem?

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Speaker 1: And I would say pretty firmly that it is not.

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Speaker 1: The book could not be more. I mean, it is

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Speaker 1: horrifying what you're reading and it and it does. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot of arguments to be

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Speaker 1: had that I'm still working through my own feelings about it,

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Speaker 1: like well what is this adding like what you know,

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Speaker 1: and there's a lot to talk about. Well, we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about it. But um, I find it kind of not

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's it would be naive to

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Speaker 1: find it shocking. But given the fact that I've recently

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Speaker 1: read the book and it is very explicitly while the

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Speaker 1: narrator of his manipulative they you know, it's humbrid narrating

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Speaker 1: his own story, trying to get you to empathize with

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Speaker 1: him and trying to get you on his side because

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Speaker 1: it was, you know, in theory written in during his court,

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Speaker 1: uh like during his trial. That's what I'm saying. Um,

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Speaker 1: so it's him trying to manipulate a group of people

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Speaker 1: to get on his side. But he also is very

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Speaker 1: explicit about what is done. He refers to himself as

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Speaker 1: a predator and a number of other terms to that effect,

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Speaker 1: many many times constantly. The book, I feel like is

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Speaker 1: very clear at while it while it is a narrator

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Speaker 1: trying to manipulate you into being like, well, maybe it's okay,

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Speaker 1: but it's regardless, it's very clear. Yeah, there's no ambiguity.

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Speaker 1: I think in the movies and the other adaptations there is.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know if ambiguity is the word. It's

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Speaker 1: like just interpreted completely differently. And I feel like this movie,

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Speaker 1: this is the first major adaptation of Lolita, and it

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Speaker 1: just really gets us off to a horrible start and

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Speaker 1: it gets weirder and worse from there. So I'm very Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been attached to this book for a long time.

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Speaker 1: I think it is like an interesting case study, like

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Speaker 1: how American culture specifically takes a story that is very

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Speaker 1: explicit about being a story about the abuse of a

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Speaker 1: child and turning it into a sexy story that there

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Speaker 1: are fashion lessons to learn from. I find it fucking infuriating,

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Speaker 1: but it's also like, yeah, there's there's not a ton

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Speaker 1: of things where I feel like you can trace that

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Speaker 1: journey so directly. So that is why I chose it,

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Speaker 1: because I had been thinking about it NonStop. Got it?

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Speaker 1: What about you? So I believe if my memory serves

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Speaker 1: me correctly, I think I saw this movie before I

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Speaker 1: read the book. I saw the movie for the first time,

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Speaker 1: I think as a freshman in college. It was one

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Speaker 1: of those you know, like, I'm a film student, I

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Speaker 1: need to have seen right. Yeah, So I remember it

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Speaker 1: making me uncomfortable when I saw it, and uh not

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Speaker 1: ever feeling compelled to watch it again. Then a few

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Speaker 1: years later, still in college, I took an English class

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Speaker 1: my senior year, and it was like a banned books

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Speaker 1: class that taught literature that had been banned in different

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Speaker 1: capacities throughout history, and Lolita was one of the banned

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Speaker 1: books that we studied. So I read the book then, um,

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Speaker 1: And then I read the book a second time, or

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Speaker 1: at least I more skimmed it that time. During another

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Speaker 1: class I took in grad school. I would hate to

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Speaker 1: bring up that I haven't spreading from Boston University, but

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Speaker 1: we took a class specifically on adaptation. So Lolita got

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Speaker 1: taught in that class. That's exciting. And the kind of

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Speaker 1: discussion around Lolita being taught in this adaptation class was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: maybe some things shouldn't be adapted to film. Um. So

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Speaker 1: that was that many So that's kind of my history. Um.

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Speaker 1: I the whole. The property as a whole makes me

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Speaker 1: very unsettled and uncomfortable for obvious reasons. I don't remember

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Speaker 1: the book that well. I remember, like, I think the

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Speaker 1: discussion we had in like my English class around it

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Speaker 1: was everyone's like, oh, it's so well written. It's such

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Speaker 1: a well written book. And I remember being like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but why are we reading a story from the point

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Speaker 1: of view of a predator, pedophile, child molester, Like what's

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Speaker 1: the value in that? And I that's like still where

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Speaker 1: I land on the entire higher property as a whole.

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Speaker 1: So that's where I'm coming from. Yeah, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think that we're not going to reach a conclus I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's never going to be a conclusion reached on whether

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Speaker 1: this is the sort of thing that should be written

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Speaker 1: about at all. And everyone, I mean it is, like

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Speaker 1: I think it's everyone is going to feel a slightly

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Speaker 1: different way about it. And it depends on what your

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Speaker 1: own experiences are, it depends on what your views are

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Speaker 1: and and all this stuff. I truly don't know where

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Speaker 1: I fall. I do, like, I think that there is

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Speaker 1: in the same way that there are like Red Flag

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Speaker 1: movies for guys to be like, I mean, not necessarily

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Speaker 1: always guys, but like nine times out of ten, uh,

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Speaker 1: but but where people will be like, yeah, I know

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Speaker 1: that it's problematic, but look at it. There's good parts

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Speaker 1: of it. And I am always kind of like my

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Speaker 1: antenna goes up for that. I agree that it's a

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Speaker 1: beautifully written book. I don't. I mean, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: I guess that's like the whole discussion of every band

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Speaker 1: books class, right, like, is this uh taboo that we

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Speaker 1: know happens in real life that should be discussed and

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Speaker 1: if so, who gets to be the narrator? Um? I

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Speaker 1: think that every adaptation of Lolita, and I am now

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Speaker 1: intimately familiar with all of them. There's been well, all

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Speaker 1: but one. I'm still trying to get my hands on

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Speaker 1: the Russian opera, but I've studied four of them pretty closely.

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Speaker 1: I think that they're all failures to different degrees in

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Speaker 1: different ways. It's it's hard because it's like this to

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Speaker 1: this topic of an abusive relationship, especially towards a child,

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Speaker 1: it's never like it's never going to be a comfortable

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Speaker 1: palatable subject for for everyone. And that's just I mean,

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Speaker 1: because it shouldn't be. It's a fucking horrific thing to happen. Um.

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Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of opinions on it, obviously, I've

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Speaker 1: also seen uh survivors of this type of abuse who

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Speaker 1: have felt very seen and have found the work to

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Speaker 1: be sort of healing by and I can direct you

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Speaker 1: just some blogs that I've found. I've done a deep

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Speaker 1: dive into the Lolita blog a sphere, but there there

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Speaker 1: are some people who feel, as you do, Caitlin, that

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Speaker 1: it's like there's absolutely no value in giving the abuser

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Speaker 1: a voice, and I agree with that, But then I

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Speaker 1: also have read the perspectives of survivors of this abuse

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Speaker 1: who feel seen through the character of Lolita and appreciate

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Speaker 1: who she is, appreciate feeling like this is a topic

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Speaker 1: that's even being discussed at all, and so well, I

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Speaker 1: don't feel that it is the best approach. I think

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Speaker 1: it is a bit of a not a bit like

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Speaker 1: it's whatever the nineteen fifties version of edge lord is

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Speaker 1: that Nabokov is doing. I mean, it's a very edge

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Speaker 1: lordy thing to try to do, and fortunately he's a

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Speaker 1: great writer. Otherwise there we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

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Speaker 1: No one would have adapted it. But that said, I

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Speaker 1: I don't. I agree that certainly the predator's point of

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Speaker 1: view is not the priority, but I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: a valueless work because so many people, and especially a

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Speaker 1: lot of young women, have found value in it that

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Speaker 1: relates to their own experiences of abuse. I think that

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Speaker 1: abuse should be something that is discussed in art um

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Speaker 1: But this is a very imperfect and fucking complicated as

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Speaker 1: hell way to do it that there was clearly no

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Speaker 1: way to do in nineteen sixty two. But there's I

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Speaker 1: don't think that we've done it successfully yet. I think

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Speaker 1: that it's I feel like if this movie was ever

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Speaker 1: going to be if this book was ever going to

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Speaker 1: be adapted into film, it would have to be animated.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that there is a safe, healthy way

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Speaker 1: to adapt this work that is live action. I just

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Speaker 1: they it's been attempted so many times. I also think

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Speaker 1: it's directly related to who is adapting the work. The

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Speaker 1: people who have been chosen to adapt this work are

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Speaker 1: just it blows my fucking mind of like, Stanley Kubrick

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Speaker 1: is your first Like seriously, the guy who's notorious for

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Speaker 1: like abusing his power as a director. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: wasn't at this time quite yet, this was his early

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Speaker 1: one of his earlier movies. But but the fact that

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Speaker 1: you would hand it off to a young man or

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Speaker 1: like a man similar like not that far off from

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Speaker 1: humbert Age. It's just you repeatedly see this work put

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Speaker 1: into someone who is going to inherently prioritize Humbrid's voice

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Speaker 1: above Lolita's The first time I have seen this work

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Speaker 1: put into a woman's hand was literally last year. Like

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Speaker 1: this movie was given to Stanley Kubrick first, we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that today. It fails, is given to Adrian Line.

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Speaker 1: It super duper fails, horrendous. It was given to Edward

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Speaker 1: Albee at one point. It fails. It was given to uh,

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Speaker 1: let me get the names right, two of the most

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Speaker 1: famous composers of all time in the nineties seventies. They

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Speaker 1: wrote a musical about it. It was by John Barry

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Speaker 1: and Alan jay Lerner. So John Barry wrote all the

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Speaker 1: theme songs to James Bond, Alan jay Lerner Broadway legend

404
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Speaker 1: did Gigi Camelot at an American in Paris. But like

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Speaker 1: they were given Lolita, it's just all the wrong people

406
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Speaker 1: have been given this property to adapt and so I

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Speaker 1: feel like my personal opinion is that this this material

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Speaker 1: has never been even given a chance to prioritize the

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Speaker 1: character who should be prioritized, because every person who has

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Speaker 1: adapted this material is going to I'm certainly not implying

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Speaker 1: that they agree with Humberd. Obviously they don't, but that

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Speaker 1: is the perspective they're able to plug into because there

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Speaker 1: are men sis head, men in their thirties or older,

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Speaker 1: and so I I let's talk about it. Yeah so

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Speaker 1: so yeah, Well, like just a backpedal a little bit

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Speaker 1: about the people who have managed to find value in it,

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Speaker 1: particularly survivors who you know, read the work and identified

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Speaker 1: with Lolita. Like that's great for them to be able

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Speaker 1: to find comfort in that or find someone to identify

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Speaker 1: with the character to identify with. But imagine like how

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Speaker 1: more effective that would be if it was a And

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Speaker 1: it's like it's not helpful to be like, well, what

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Speaker 1: if the book was this instead, But like if there

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Speaker 1: was a book out there that was written from the

425
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: perspective of the survivor and was just as well written

426
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: and was just as iconic in literature and just as

427
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: influential as a literary work, Like I think we do

428
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: have more books like that now and I agree that.

429
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: I mean, there has been fiction about survivors of assault

430
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: and of prolonged abuse that have taken you know, their place,

431
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: and I think that, Lolita, I mean, it is not

432
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 1: the perfect discussion of abuse. It just isn't. It's not

433
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: the only discussion of abuse that's out there, fortunately, um,

434
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: for me and for everybody. But yeah, I think I

435
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: do think that there's a lot of pressure put on

436
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: this singular work that was published seventy years ago to

437
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: be the discussion of this topic, um, because I think

438
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: it's the most and I don't mean this as a

439
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: compliment it but the most iconic one in American culture.

440
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: But I kind of fault that more to American culture

441
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: than to the book itself. You know, Nabokov didn't go

442
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: into this project thinking this is going to be the

443
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: only discussion we have of this topic for half a century,

444
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: but in a lot of ways it was. And so

445
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't think you can really fault the

446
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: author of the work to anticipate how their work is

447
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: going to be taken out of context over and over

448
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: and over. I think that that is like a cultural problem. Well,

449
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: I do think that I don't think all of his

450
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: writing is you know, it's certainly not perfect and not responsible.

451
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: And if I were writing this story, I would fully

452
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: center Lolita. And I know that survivors of assault have

453
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: interpreted this book in a number of different ways, and

454
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: no interpretation of this work is invalid. It's just yeah,

455
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: it's a tricky fucking thing, and it's you know, it's

456
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: almost seventy years old now, and people are still trying

457
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: to find what I mean, I don't know. I don't

458
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: know if this could be successfully adopted. What we were

459
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: talking about today was not successfully adopted, and I think that, oh,

460
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: it's so frustrating. I think it's interesting. So to pivot

461
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: a little bit to the nine two movie adaptation of this,

462
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: I feel like the general consensus on this that was

463
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: made but that was like, well, it's not good, but

464
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: it's just because production codes. I feel like this movie

465
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: is definitely not good. It is so long, it is

466
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: really boring, so tedious. It's just because of the production code.

467
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: Nothing happens. But that is not why the movie is bad.

468
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot of reasons the production

469
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: code included, but I feel like it's letting Kuber get

470
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: off a little easy to say that it's just because

471
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: of the production code. I think that it's it also

472
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: it's bad for other reasons. Yes, And for any listeners

473
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: who aren't familiar with what the production code is UM

474
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: google it for more information. But it's basically a set

475
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: of censorship rules that applied to Hollywood studio films. It

476
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: was enforced from the mid nineteen thirties to the late sixties,

477
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: and it basically said that movies couldn't have graphic violence,

478
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: you know, sex or nudity or overt sexuality, no swearing,

479
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: things like that. The list goes on and on, but

480
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: it's worth checking out just to see like what the

481
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: limitations were, like what UM filmmakers could and couldn't do,

482
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: and what they did sort of to get around production

483
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: code stipulations. There's like we saw in certain genres like

484
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: screwball comedies that would be like all these like double

485
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: entendre innuendo type of dialogue and stuff like that. But

486
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: it's interesting. But yeah, like informs a whole generation of

487
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: movies basically, and then this movie kind of comes out

488
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: at the towards the tail land that this movie had

489
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: been made even a couple of years later, I don't.

490
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it might have been quite different. I don't

491
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: really care to know, um what Stanley Kuper would have

492
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: done with this story at literally any point in time.

493
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: I think that truly just like among the worst working

494
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: directors you could choose for this, it's kind of astounding. Um.

495
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: But that was kind of that really informed how this

496
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: movie was marketed, which the tagline for this movie was

497
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: how did they ever make a movie of Lolita? And

498
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: the short answer, and a lot of people have said this,

499
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: but the short answer is that they didn't, uh, and

500
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: that's how they did. By not doing it, given the

501
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: production codes, it would have been virtually impossible to even

502
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: sort of tell the story, which this I mean, I

503
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: guess you could. I mean, there's scenes in this movie

504
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: that really lean on suggestion and then it's just like

505
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: Peter Sellers for forty five fucking minutes and you're just

506
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: like in very disguises like counts Off, I'm just like,

507
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: this is exhausting, no wonder lemony snack it liked it

508
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: so much. He's like, I'm gonna base count all off

509
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: on quilty. But it's interesting. I mean, I think that

510
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: he did do that in a number of ways. But

511
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: then I guess that's a separate episode. But technically, technically,

512
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: Vladimir and Abakoff wrote the screenplay to this movie. Once

513
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: again we encounter something here that is technically true but

514
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: isn't actually true, because I have read the screenplay that

515
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: Vladimir Nabokov wrote, and Vladimir and Abukov wrote a fairly

516
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: faithful while obviously working around quite a bit, but a

517
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: fairly faithful adaptation of his book that I feel frames

518
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: the story appropriately or more appropriately. And there's been a

519
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: number of interviews done with him and done with basically

520
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: everyone involved in this movie. Be that like, almost none

521
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: of his script is used in this movie, so even

522
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: though his name is on it, he thought very little

523
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 1: of it. And I also, I'm like, I'm not here

524
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: to stand for Vladimir Nabukov hardcore. He's got some weird

525
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: ship going on in his life. And I don't mean criminally,

526
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't mean anything approaching like stuff like that,

527
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 1: but he's just I mean, look of Vladimir Nabukov's family.

528
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: They were famously executing other authors, so have a lot

529
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 1: of ship going on with that. It's a whole thing

530
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: like there so Nabukov has got his own thing going on, right,

531
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: He's just kind of a bizarre cultural figure. But he

532
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: didn't like this movie. The draft he wrote of this

533
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: movie at least resembles his book, and for me, for

534
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: the movies specifically, framing is everything, and this movie and

535
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: the movie are framed not at all, like basically not

536
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 1: at all. So yeah, Stanley Kubrick hacked into this script.

537
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure he was also trying to get his movie

538
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: to pass the production code so that I could still

539
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: be made. But like, fuck Stanley Kubrick, Matt Like fuck him.

540
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: When has he ever successfully written a female character or treated,

541
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: you know, an actress with dignity? Fucking never is when?

542
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: So uh fux Stanley Kubrick particularly, And I guess let's

543
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: talk about what happens in the movie. Well, first let's

544
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we'll come right back.

545
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: All right, So here's the recap. We open on Humbert. Humbert.

546
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: He shows up to a rundown mansion belonging to this guy,

547
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: Claire Quilty, who is played by Peter Sellers. They have

548
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: some kind of history, but it's not clear at this

549
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: point what Humbert mentions a girl named Lolita, and then

550
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: he eventually shoots and kills Quilty. Then we cut to

551
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: four years earlier. Humbert is a recent European transplant to

552
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: the US. He arrives at a house in New Hampshire

553
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: where he will be spending the summer before he heads

554
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: off to Beardsley College in I think it's Ohio to

555
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: um teach French literature. Now, the owner of this house,

556
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: Charlotte Hayes, shows him around and played by Shelley Winters,

557
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: my birthday twin oh and wow, today's your birthday, so

558
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: that's amazing. So he's kind of on the fence about

559
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 1: whether or not he wants to live here. But then

560
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: she shows him out to the garden and out there

561
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: is Charlotte's teenage daughter, Lolita. She is sunbathing in a bikini,

562
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 1: and Lolita simply being really helps Humbert decide to move in.

563
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: Mrs Hayes. Charlotte becomes interested in Humbert pretty much right away,

564
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: but Humbert becomes interested in Lolita. There's a scene where

565
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: they all go to a community dance. I suppose this

566
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: is all like the scenes are so weird because there's

567
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: a lot of I mean, one thing that was done

568
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: for this movie to allow it to be made was

569
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: to age Lolita up because in the book she is twelve.

570
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: Am I read about that she is twelve? Yeah, and

571
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 1: in the movie she's fourteen or fifteen. Yeah, not entirely sure.

572
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: The actor who plays Lolita in this movie lyon, oh,

573
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: fourteen at the time shooting. Okay, yeah, she's sixteen when

574
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: it comes out. Got okay, yeah. Yeah. So they aged

575
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: her up slightly, and they added in like a boyfriend character,

576
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: I would guess to make her seem less innocent. I

577
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: don't know really what to think, but this whole boyfriend

578
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 1: think this is just like invented for the movie. Okay, Kenny, Kenny,

579
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: fake fake news, fake news, Kenny. And then here at

580
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: this dance, we learn that Charlotte has a habit of

581
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: going after men who are not interested in her because

582
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: she approaches Quilty who is there, and he doesn't really

583
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: seem to remember who she is, even though it's implied

584
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: that they have had sex before. This is also totally

585
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: made up for the move invented. Yeah, okay, good to

586
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: know he doesn't remember Charlotte, but he does remember Charlotte's daughter, Lolita.

587
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: So that comes into play later. Now Charlotte kind of

588
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 1: goes back to throwing herself at Humbert, who again only

589
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: has eyes for a child, and they go back to

590
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: the house. After this dance, Lolita returns and this makes

591
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: Humbert very happy. But Charlotte is starting to get the

592
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: sense that Humbert is interested in Lolita. So Charlotte kind

593
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: of lashes out and she says, go to bed, you

594
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: little pest, and then she kind of has a little outburst.

595
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 1: She sure does. Um. Then Humbert starts writing in a diary,

596
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: or maybe he has been already, but he basically started.

597
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: He's like writing in his diary about his affection for Lolita,

598
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: who he starts to call his nymphete and barf um.

599
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: But Charlotte reveals that she is sending Lolita away for

600
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: the summer to camp because she wants to keep sas

601
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: a free up her schedule to be hitting on Humbert

602
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 1: all summer, right, we are to believe, and Humbert is

603
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: very disappointed by this. There's a scene where Lolita comes

604
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: in the house and wishes him a farewell and says,

605
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: you know, don't forget me. Then Humbert gets a letter

606
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: from Charlotte professing her love for him, saying, one of

607
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: my favorite lines in fiction. I saw that you had

608
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: changed your Twitter bio to this. It is such a

609
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: fun line. I mean, in a very depressing work, it

610
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 1: is a fun line. I'm a passionate and lonely woman

611
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: and you are the love of my life. I'm like, okay, drama,

612
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: Like I Charlotte's letter is so over dramatic, and I

613
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: love it. Yeah. She's basically like, get out of my

614
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: house because I love you unless you also love me,

615
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: and then you have to stay and be my lover forever.

616
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: You're like a Charlotte like I just I I mean,

617
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: we'll talk about but like that letter is always fun

618
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: for me. I hate that he laughs at her. I'm like,

619
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: this is the this is the best writing in the

620
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: movie is Charlotte's letter. But I love Charlotte's letter. Yeah. So,

621
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: so he reads this letter and then he marries her,

622
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: and the implicate Asian here is that he marries her

623
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: so that he will have the opportunity to see Lolita again.

624
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: But then Charlotte says that she has decided to send

625
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: Lolita from camp straight to boarding school and then straight

626
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 1: to college from there, meaning that Humbert probably won't really

627
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 1: ever see her again, so he freaks out. He starts

628
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: to premeditate him murdering Charlotte loudly and all the time

629
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: like there I know. And it's so it like adds

630
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: to it that it's James Mason, just like the most

631
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: British person ever, being like maybe I should kill her,

632
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: Like you're just like shut up, man, like what are

633
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 1: you doing? This is also this is really deviated from

634
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: what happens in the book as well. But anyways, got it, Yeah,

635
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't remember it well enough. But Humbert

636
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 1: decides against killing his wife Um, and we're supposed to

637
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: be like, wow, awesome, like hero cool. But Charlotte has

638
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 1: just discovered Humbert's diary, in which he has insulted her

639
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: and expressed his love for Lolita, so she is distraught,

640
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 1: runs out into the street, and is killed when she's

641
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: hit by a car. Humbert is mostly unfazed by this.

642
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: He then leaves to go pick Lolita up from camp Um,

643
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: telling her that her mother is sick and in the

644
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: hospital and they just kind of have to bide their

645
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: time before until she's well. So they're just going to

646
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 1: travel around a little bit until then. So they check

647
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: into a hotel and there's only one room left with

648
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: one bed. Quilty also happens to be there. There's a

649
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: scene where he is acting, he's like very high strung.

650
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 1: He and Humbert talk for a little bit about Lolita,

651
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 1: and then Humbert returns to the room where he tries

652
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 1: to get into the bed with Lolita, but then ends

653
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 1: up sleeping on the cot that has been brought in

654
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: right but the next morning it is implied that they

655
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: do something sexual together off screen a k a. A

656
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 1: statutory rape happens. Then they set off again in the car,

657
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: Humbert finally tells Lolita that her mother is dead, so

658
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: Lolita is very upset, but eventually Humbert and Lolita kind

659
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 1: of settle into a life together. And again by that,

660
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: I mean he's a predator and he regularly again and again.

661
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: This is like so wildly deviated from the book where

662
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: they're they're still traveling together, but she is constantly trying

663
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: to escape, and she is constantly trying to get away

664
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: and devise different ways to get away from her abuser

665
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: who's continually manipulating her. In the movie. It is kind

666
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: of portrayed as a mostly fun road trip when yeah,

667
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: I have a lot to say about the tone of

668
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: this movie, which is horrible. Um Okay. So now they're

669
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: living in Ohio and he starts his job as a

670
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,760
Speaker 1: professor of Beardsley College. Lolita's seems to be getting bored

671
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: with their relationship. He doesn't like that she hangs out

672
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: with other boys at school. She wants to do the

673
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: school play, but he won't let her, so then Quilty

674
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: comes in. He has written this play. He shows up

675
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: pretending to be the school psychologist and convinces Humbert to

676
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 1: let Lolita be in the play. But Humbert finds out

677
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: that Lolita has been lying to him about where she's

678
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: been and who she's been hanging out with. They getting

679
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: a big fight, but eventually she's like, okay, Humbert, let's

680
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: go away again, so they set off. There's a car

681
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: that's been following them for a while, and then Lolita

682
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: gets sick and has to be hospitalized. But when Humbert

683
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: picks her up from the hospital, the staff says that

684
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 1: another man has already picked her up, so he freaks out.

685
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: He doesn't know where she is he loses contact with

686
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: her for I believe a few years, and then Humbert

687
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 1: after some time receives a letter from Lolita asking for money,

688
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: so he goes to see her. She is married to

689
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: a young man, she is regnant with his baby, and

690
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: she reveals that she had been having a relationship with

691
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 1: Quilty during this time that she was in the school play.

692
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: And then I think also before because basically Quilty follows

693
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: her around wherever she goes, it seems, and it was

694
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: him who had picked her up from the hospital. Lolita

695
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: says that she was always in love with him, but

696
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 1: she did care about Humbert. Humbert gets her to try

697
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 1: to run away with him, but she refuses, so then

698
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: he goes to Quiality's mansion, which is the scene we

699
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: see in the beginning, and then he murders him and

700
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: then we find out that he dies of coronary thrombosis

701
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: before the trial prison. Yeah, so that is the end

702
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: of the ninety two movie. Again, I mean we will

703
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: continue to repeat this. This is unequivocally a story of

704
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: a child being repeatedly abused by a guardian. Like there

705
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: is no if sandswer buds about it and this movie. However,

706
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 1: I don't know what this movie thinks is going on,

707
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: because it seems like it is mishandling everything at every turn.

708
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: And where I like to start is it's sort of

709
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: like for SNA like not fortunate, but like alluding to

710
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: this a little earlier of the way that this story

711
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: is framed. If you're going to attempt to tell it,

712
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: which I agree you don't have to, it exists as

713
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: a historical moment of this topic attempting to be discussed

714
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties, that is very worthy of criticism,

715
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 1: and that's in one place if you're trying to adapt

716
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: this responsibly. I feel that the framing of the story

717
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: is very important because for you know, the book, and

718
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm like the book, but it is

719
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: important for this friend. The way that the book frames Humbert.

720
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: Humbert is that he is narrating his own story. He

721
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: is doing so from prison, trying to convince a jury

722
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: to let him get off from these crimes that he's

723
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: committed a murder. But also he is admitting that he

724
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: um is a rapist of an m minor, So this

725
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: is something he's acknowledging over and over. So he is

726
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: perhaps not is he perhaps an unreliable narrator, but not

727
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: just that Kate there is. The book starts with a

728
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: um an introduction by a different fictional character who basically

729
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: tells you not to trust a word you're about to hear.

730
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: And so, just based on my own research and experience

731
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,439
Speaker 1: with the like, the book is intended to be an

732
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: experiment of You're told very explicitly at the beginning of

733
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: the story, do not fall for this person ship. They're lying,

734
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 1: and then the book becomes well will you fall for it? Anyways? Basically, um,

735
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: this is completely absent from every movie adaptation, and it

736
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: is so important into like if you're going to adapt it,

737
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: this has to be included, Like, it absolutely needs to

738
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: be included. There's another thing that Humbert again, it's like

739
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,359
Speaker 1: he's a fucking liar, so you don't know really. I

740
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: also think it's weird that it's like commonly accepted that

741
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 1: Charlotte just happened to walk into traffic. I always I'm like,

742
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: I think he's lying about that, but whatever, Yeah, he

743
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: probably pushed her, he probably killed her, like why but

744
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: even like literary scholars are like, wow, he really looked

745
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: out there I'm like, I'm I've like he killed he

746
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: was just premeditating her murder. I don't know if that

747
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: is in the book. Well that hasn't happened. But but like,

748
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: like on her way to report him for being a

749
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: criminal of the highest degree, she happened to get hit

750
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: by a car. I mean, give me a fucking break.

751
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: But in any case, this framing is so important and

752
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: humber this is included in the movie, but also in

753
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: the worst stupidest way possible. He also mentioned at the

754
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 1: beginning of the book that he had loved and lost

755
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: a young woman who was about Lolita's age when he

756
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: was that age and I and he uses that as

757
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: a manipulative narrator to get you to say, well, this

758
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: is why I did this horrible crime is because something

759
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: bad happened to me when I was that age, which

760
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: is a very manipulative tactic that is used by a

761
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 1: lot of abusers. Again, this is completely omitted from this.

762
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: I feel like this movie. I mean tell me if

763
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: you I feel like this movie pretty much just events

764
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: Humbert's narrative as fact as this is what happened period, Like,

765
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 1: there is no the movie does not question him at all.

766
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: At all. It's ridiculous. There's no implication that he might

767
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,280
Speaker 1: be an unreliable narrator. They're like, these are the events

768
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: of the story. This is exactly how they played out. Explicitly,

769
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: he does voiceover like I guess he is the narrator,

770
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: but there's no I mean, like for your average viewer,

771
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: an unreliable narrator is like a concept that you need

772
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 1: to make pretty fucking clear. Like you can't just be like,

773
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: here's James Mason, a very established movie star who you

774
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: probably like, don't believe him, Like that is a difficult

775
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: that's a difficult concept. You have to make that super

776
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,280
Speaker 1: duper clear. And I wonder, I mean, I've really tried

777
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: to follow the thread of like, well, who thwarted this

778
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: from happening? Because nabokov screenplay includes everything I just talked about.

779
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 1: It includes the character at the beginning that is like,

780
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 1: don't believe anything you're about to hear. It includes, if

781
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 1: you're going to try to adapt it, the necessary things

782
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 1: I think. But I'm like, well, who does Kuber say

783
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: don't bother? Does the production code say, like who is

784
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: the person that says no, it bothers me? It's and

785
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: it just dooms the movie too. I mean, any live

786
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,479
Speaker 1: action interpretation of this that is translated faithfully I think

787
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: is not even worth trying and is just is irresponsible.

788
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: But this one in particular, I mean it's like you're

789
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: not even fucking trying. I know, I know the code,

790
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 1: and like, don't go in the comments about the code.

791
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 1: We know about the code. But in that case, what

792
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: cat fighting outside? There's no a bunch of cats that

793
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: fight in the alley next to my house. I live

794
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: in a cartoon. Uh so, I'm right. So what happens

795
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,800
Speaker 1: in this adaptation in the sixty two one is the story.

796
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: Because there's no mention of like, don't believe anything this

797
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 1: man says, don't fall for his manipulation tactics, etcetera. The

798
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: movie gets framed as being like almost like a rom com,

799
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: like there are there's a lot of visual jokes about

800
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: like his attraction to Lolita. The inclusion of Peter Seller's

801
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: at all, like a famous comic actor of this era

802
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 1: takes up way too much screen time in this movie.

803
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: But like that aside, that's a that's a very specific

804
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: decision you're making by putting a famous comic actor like

805
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: second build in this movie. What are you saying, Like, Yeah, so,

806
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,919
Speaker 1: like the tone that this movie takes I absolutely think

807
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 1: is horrendous because it frames a lot of what happens

808
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: as comedy and as jokes, like in cite some examples

809
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: at some point. But and while the movie ends tragically

810
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 1: for Humbert, like he kind of gets his come up

811
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: and I guess to like the not degree that he

812
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: should have, but like he does. That is how they

813
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: end his story in Nabakrov's book, but it omits. I mean,

814
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: the the one thing that this movie does that I

815
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: think is at least interesting and not just like Blanket

816
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: I hate it is that it gives Lolita a happy

817
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 1: ish ending, which is not how any other adaptation nor

818
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:45,240
Speaker 1: the source material ends in the book. Canonically, she dies

819
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: in childbirth and as I mean, uh, it's just a

820
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: track like she has a tragic life and and passes

821
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: away very young, which and I was reading it at

822
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: the time, like I really loved Lolita as a kid,

823
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: and I kind of like looked up to her in

824
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 1: a way that was unhealthy because I was misinterpreting what

825
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 1: was happening. But I cared a lot about the character

826
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: and like to know that she dies at the end

827
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 1: at least helped me understand a little bit that she

828
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: had been done this huge disservice in her life, that

829
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: her life had literally been, you know, taken from her.

830
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: This movie does not go this way. It kind of

831
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: ends kind of optimistically for her, which I would suspect

832
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: has something to do with the code of like, well,

833
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 1: don't kill our titular character who never did anything wrong.

834
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 1: It's the only choice this movie makes that is remotely interesting,

835
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: is not. It is allowing lowly as character to live on,

836
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: which you know, I don't know. I guess I don't

837
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: feel one way or another about it. It's interesting, it's different. Um.

838
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 1: There are two things I do remember from the book.

839
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 1: It's been a while. It's been fifteen years since I've

840
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: read the book, so I don't remember it very well.

841
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: Let me know if I'm remembering this correctly, jam May,

842
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: since you've read it more recently. Is there a component

843
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: of the book where Humbert as he's like writing in

844
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 1: his diary and describing his relationship with Lolita. I feel

845
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: like he's often saying that like she is coming onto

846
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: him by, like she's like he's always like she's a nymphete.

847
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: She's like a nymphomaniac. She's always trying to initiate like

848
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: sexual contact with me, Like he's kind of blaming it

849
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,919
Speaker 1: on her. Is that something? And I remember a lot

850
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 1: of the tone of and that's a lot of what

851
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: his character does in the book. I think intentionally by

852
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: the author is that he oscillates between blaming his victims

853
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 1: and a deep hatred of himself. So it pends on

854
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: what part in the book you were in. At certain

855
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,879
Speaker 1: parts he blames her whole sale in a way that

856
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 1: reading it as an adult, you know is not true.

857
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 1: Um and is him offloading all of his own baggage

858
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: onto a child and saying, I mean the thing that

859
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: people have said about victims since the beginning of time

860
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: of like they were asking for it is basically what

861
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 1: he's saying by inventing this vocabulary word at all. And

862
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: then in other sections of the book, which we really

863
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: don't see in any of these adaptations, he kind of switches.

864
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:39,760
Speaker 1: When Lolita shows extreme like an example would be when

865
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: she finds out that her mother is actually dead and

866
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:48,919
Speaker 1: not sick. She grieves her and is really upset and

867
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 1: cries for days and days and at this point in

868
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: the narrative, he starts to go to like step zero

869
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: point one of introspection and starts to feel a lot

870
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,439
Speaker 1: of guilt and his like, oh my god, I'm doing

871
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: this horrible thing to this child. What am I doing?

872
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a monster, I'm a horrible person. He calls

873
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: himself like a pentapod monster, like he called There's sections

874
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: where he seems completely aware of what he's doing but

875
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: continues to do it anyways, which makes him even work right,

876
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 1: And then there's other sections where he's just blaming his victims.

877
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: So it's different headspaces of just a wholesale abuser. This this,

878
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: it's not even so it doesn't cross James Mason's mind

879
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 1: that he's doing anything wrong. And I think that that

880
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with setting the code aside,

881
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: the view of that Hollywood has of women and girls

882
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: at this time of I think that the you know,

883
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: the way that it's like you're saying, Caitlin, it's so

884
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: often framed as a joke that this man who's almost

885
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: forty and James Mason was over forty, uh is having

886
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 1: a relationship with a child, a person who cannot consent

887
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: to them and kind of joking around, like you know,

888
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: which was a real culture and that was a real

889
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: thing that happened in in mid century America, and there's

890
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:16,919
Speaker 1: countless examples of it, and certainly, I mean, we don't

891
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: have time to recap the history of how Hollywood has

892
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 1: treated child stars and how and the legacy that continues

893
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: to this day of abuse that happens to young people.

894
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: But it is I feel like it's treated as a

895
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: joke because in this time you could just treat it

896
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: as a joke, like it you didn't even need to

897
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: explain where you were coming from. It was just culturally

898
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: accepted as a joke. The movie frames again his attraction

899
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: to her as like, isn't it so fun and cute

900
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: that he's attracted to an underage girl? Like and she

901
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 1: and she's also interested in him and all this stuff

902
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: of it's so it's and it does lead I think,

903
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like, yeah, I mean, this is

904
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: not a hot take. I wish to god I had

905
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: not found out about this property when I was twelve

906
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: years old, when I was like Lolita's age, because you know,

907
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: it's it's for most twelve year olds at that time,

908
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 1: and for most young people, it's not You're just not

909
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: going to have the frame of reference to understand what

910
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 1: you're reading. I don't think it should be a book

911
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: that's banned outright, Like, if you don't want to read it,

912
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 1: definitely don't. And I absolutely understand why you wouldn't want to.

913
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 1: But when it's presented to like who is this movie for?

914
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: Is my question like, who the fuck is is even for?

915
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: This also extends to I mean, Lolita is I think,

916
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: to an extent, demonized and made to say, well, this

917
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: was a very like sexual fourteen or fifteen year old.

918
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: So I think at the movie frames that of like, well,

919
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 1: can you really blame him? And it's like, yeah, you can,

920
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 1: and you should and you should but this but but

921
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 1: I think that this movie has such a nothing view

922
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 1: of of Lolita. She's she's barely written at all. And

923
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,919
Speaker 1: I'm sure that that again I mean code code code, right,

924
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: but I mean she's robbed of any element that made

925
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: her a character, because I mean a lot of what

926
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: you encounter with her in the book and to some

927
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: extent in other adaptations is it making it very clear

928
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: that she's a kid and she has the interest that

929
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 1: a kid does and she's like a really she's like

930
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 1: a twelve year old with a big personality, who likes

931
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: who's like very rebellious and has a complicated relationship with

932
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: her mom and all this stuff. Like, you know, people

933
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 1: didn't identify with this character. I didn't identify with her

934
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: when I was twelve for no reason. She had a

935
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 1: personality that you can recognize. But this is that this

936
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 1: is just the kind of another thing that's taken from

937
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,959
Speaker 1: her in this movie. We know really nothing about her

938
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: right and the movie has no interest in getting to

939
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: know her, which is just going to make it that

940
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: much harder for a viewer to empathize with what she's

941
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 1: going through. Let's take another break and then we'll be

942
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: right back for a more discussion. Going back to the

943
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: kind of use of visual comedy to set the tone

944
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 1: of this movie. Like there's a scene where after Humbert

945
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 1: has moved in, they all go to a drive in

946
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 1: movie theater and there's like a scary moment in the

947
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 1: horror movie that they're watching, and both Charlotte and Lolita

948
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: each put a hand on one of Humbert's knees, and

949
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,959
Speaker 1: he takes off Charlotte's hand because he's not interested in her,

950
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: and he like puts his hand on Lolita's hand, and

951
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: then like Charlotte realizes what's happening, and he realizes that

952
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: she realizes, so then everyone kind of like retreats into

953
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: themselves and like pulls their hand away, and it's like

954
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,959
Speaker 1: this this like kind of oh, and then the whole

955
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: cot seeing there's like a three minute slapstick comedy scene

956
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: about like, oh shucks for him that he doesn't get

957
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: to sleep in a bed and he has to set

958
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 1: up a cot. It's made to want like it's the

959
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: fact that this is a predatory, statutory rapist. It's a joke.

960
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 1: It's a long and it's a long joke, and no

961
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 1: matter like how fucking like brainless you were in nineteen

962
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 1: sixty two, no one could laugh at this joke. It

963
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 1: is not It's just horrible in every single one like

964
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 1: it also another thing that frustrates me in these adaptations,

965
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: and this one is no different. And no disrespect to

966
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 1: Shelly Winters. She is not given really the tools to

967
01:02:55,520 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: succeed here, Nor was Melanie Griffith, who gives my favorite

968
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: at Charlotte performance in the un though she was really good,

969
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: having been given nothing right, But again, Charlotte is just

970
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: because these movies take Humbert's word as law. Charlotte is

971
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 1: portrayed as this as this very shrill, clueless, like not

972
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: particularly intelligent, hyper sexualized monster, like pathetic, desperate, hysterical, jealous,

973
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 1: like every negative trick her own child. And and again

974
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 1: this has taken his law. I and again it's like

975
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 1: you can't know. Also, these people don't exist. I know that,

976
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 1: but there's just again, even in literary analysis, this interpretation

977
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: of Charlotte is taken very wholesale of like, yeah, this

978
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: annoying woman who you know presents herself as an obstacle

979
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 1: in the first active of this story, but she obstacle.

980
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 1: But again, it's like, if you think about the fact

981
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 1: that you're told at the beginning, this person is going

982
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 1: to misrepresent everything to make himself look better. Would he

983
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 1: not benefit by making her look like a horrible, incompetent mother.

984
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: Would he not benefit from portraying her this way? Like,

985
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 1: I'm not claiming that this character would have been a

986
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 1: perfect person. It sounds like from the jump she and

987
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:30,959
Speaker 1: her daughter have a very contentious relationship. Lots of twelve

988
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: year olds do with their mothers. They also, like she

989
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 1: in in the book, this is I don't remember if

990
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,439
Speaker 1: this referenced in this movie. I've seen so many versions

991
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: of this, so I apologize if I'm getting this wrong.

992
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 1: But um, she you know, has lost a husband that's referenced. Um,

993
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:50,480
Speaker 1: she has not. She's very cruel about it in this movie.

994
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: They really they're like, well, he didn't have sex with me, good,

995
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: so I hate him, And you're like, that's not really

996
01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 1: anything that in the movie. In this movie she was

997
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 1: kind of obsessed with him. Yeah, in the one she

998
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 1: says he didn't fuck me right, and so I don't

999
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 1: care that he died, and you're like, that's not something

1000
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 1: people say either way. She She's like in Mourning, there's

1001
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 1: also a long tangent she goes on in the book

1002
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 1: of like she had lost a baby when he was

1003
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 1: very young, and Lolita had a brother, and that he

1004
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: passed away very young, and that she had never quite

1005
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 1: fully grieved that, and that that informed her relationship with

1006
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 1: her daughter, was mourning this other child, and that was

1007
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: one of the things that made their relationship very complicated,

1008
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: which is really interesting and not something that is often

1009
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 1: discussed of, Like this deep depression that she would have

1010
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 1: been in and how does that affect the child who

1011
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 1: lives on and like this is a real world problem.

1012
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: It's I'm not saying that this is the best exploration

1013
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 1: of it, but it's just kind of like all of

1014
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 1: that is pushed aside, even though I think it's in

1015
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 1: staying in the book that you're giving that information to

1016
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 1: make of what you will. And then he's like, she's

1017
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: annoying and you're supposed to take that as law, Like

1018
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 1: that's whatever, that's a part of what the book's trying

1019
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 1: to do. But the movie is just they're like, Nope,

1020
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 1: she's annoying, we hate her, we don't care when she dies.

1021
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: It's better that that he gets Lolita away from her,

1022
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 1: Like that's what the movie wants. And it's like even

1023
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 1: I get that, like even the viewers of the movie

1024
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 1: are not going to think that because they know that

1025
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: he is a bad person. But I feel like the way, yeah,

1026
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: the way he builds up her character is to make

1027
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 1: you not feel too bad when she mysteriously dies the

1028
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 1: second she's about to report him, he kills her. I'm

1029
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 1: just like, how all these fucking literary geniuses are like, no,

1030
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 1: she walked into traffic she was confused and I was

1031
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 1: like he killed her whatever. In this movie, also, she

1032
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 1: she's given like a gun, like she's given that whole thing,

1033
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 1: like that was a whole weird that doesn't happen. She

1034
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 1: she's like, the gun isn't loaded, and he's like I

1035
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 1: did that and he looks done and it is loaded.

1036
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: So like every right, every way she's characterized just makes

1037
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 1: her seem so awful, Like the movie frames that whole

1038
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 1: situation as like the movie wants you to root against

1039
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 1: Humbert being with an adult woman Charlotte because of the

1040
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 1: negative way that she's characterized, and the movie wants you

1041
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 1: to root for Humbert pursuing a child. The movie frames

1042
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 1: it horrifically. And yeah, again, it all goes back to

1043
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 1: the fact that it doesn't question Humbert's interpretation of events

1044
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: at all, and there's no context as to why he's

1045
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:47,880
Speaker 1: presenting this information this way and what he wants you

1046
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 1: to take away. And again, yeah, and every adaptation Charlotte

1047
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 1: has done a huge disservice. I feel like people don't

1048
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 1: really talk about that because I mean, obviously, because Lolita

1049
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:02,280
Speaker 1: has done the biggest disserves of all where she is

1050
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 1: you know, And I think most cases erased from her

1051
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 1: own story and her at any reference in the original

1052
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 1: work to her emotions and her grief and her confusion

1053
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 1: and her figuring out what is happening to her and

1054
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 1: repeated attempts to get herself out are essentially erased or

1055
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: severely condensed to make her just less important to the story,

1056
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 1: right to just invalidate her feelings and her experience. It

1057
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 1: makes me so sad for her. I really really love

1058
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 1: her as a character and feel like there's a real

1059
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 1: opportunity here to examine a victims story. Do I think

1060
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:53,799
Speaker 1: that a you know, an older man is the person

1061
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 1: to do this? Of course I don't, But I've been

1062
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 1: being that she is this, you know, iconic character in

1063
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:06,520
Speaker 1: American literature. She's just never been given an opportunity to

1064
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 1: show even what's on the page, much less explore deeper,

1065
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:12,800
Speaker 1: which is what a lot of good film adaptations of

1066
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:15,719
Speaker 1: books are supposed to do, is take the important character

1067
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 1: and then give you a deeper look at who they

1068
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:20,799
Speaker 1: are and what their struggle is and what their grief

1069
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: is and and and all of this through the performances.

1070
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 1: And it's just not allowed to happen here. She brings

1071
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: me to the thing that I hate the most about

1072
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 1: this movie is a problem that follows through every adaptation

1073
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:42,759
Speaker 1: of this is supersizing clear qualities role in the narrative.

1074
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,639
Speaker 1: This is a creative choice that has made literally every time,

1075
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:50,599
Speaker 1: and I hate it. He is present in the book.

1076
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 1: He's not wearing Count Olaf disguises in the book, but there,

1077
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 1: but it is implied that he and um Dolores had

1078
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 1: no each other like when she was very young, and

1079
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: that he had already been grooming her. And it's kind

1080
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 1: of left ambiguous in the book as to what actually happens,

1081
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 1: which I just kind of can't speak to it. But

1082
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 1: he was certainly grooming her in in the book from

1083
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 1: a very young age and does follow them as he

1084
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:23,759
Speaker 1: does in this and is killed at the end. But

1085
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 1: this movie just, I mean, I think because this movie

1086
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 1: doesn't know what to do with its title character and

1087
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: has no interest in exploring the fact that it's protagonist

1088
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: is a fucking criminal of the highest degree. They just

1089
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 1: supersize another male character and try to deepen the history

1090
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 1: and the relationship with Humbert and quality, and I just

1091
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: couldn't think of a real like a relationship between two

1092
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 1: characters and this story that I care about less. I

1093
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:03,720
Speaker 1: don't care about two predators and how their enemies like

1094
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 1: who gives a funk? Like it? Just I hate it.

1095
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 1: It's such a lazy choice. It's such a like, of course,

1096
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 1: you hand off this extremely difficult, problematic story to a

1097
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 1: male director and they just kind of are like, I

1098
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:25,880
Speaker 1: don't know, let's let's get the other male character in it.

1099
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: More so I understand what we're talking about. Like, I

1100
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 1: hate it. This happens in the movie, happens in the musical,

1101
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 1: happens in the hoodward I'll be play, which is um,

1102
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 1: it happens every single time. And I think that that

1103
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:49,679
Speaker 1: choice especially has a lot to do with not the code.

1104
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 1: This is the choice where I'm like, this is not

1105
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 1: the code. This is the filmmaker making a choice on

1106
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 1: how to handle the code. It's like, oh, I know

1107
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:03,679
Speaker 1: what I'll do. I will make a like male predator

1108
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 1: character way bigger, even though the lead character of this

1109
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:12,840
Speaker 1: is a male predator. Why do that? I just I

1110
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 1: hate this choice so much. I think it's so lazy

1111
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:24,360
Speaker 1: and bad. I hate it, especially making it what yeah, yeah,

1112
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:27,679
Speaker 1: he's like he's being Peter Seller's He's like, in every

1113
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:30,840
Speaker 1: scene he's in, he's doing some kind of character, right,

1114
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 1: He's like in disguise, he's pretending to be other people,

1115
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 1: inspector cluz oing it through this horrifying, dense narrative, and

1116
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 1: it's just like, that is not, No, that is not

1117
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 1: He's do you know what movie you're in? Who do

1118
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 1: you think you are? Bill Nighy and I Frankenstein. You

1119
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 1: just didn't read the script and you showed up and

1120
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm doing what? Like it Just he's like

1121
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:00,920
Speaker 1: Dana Carvey and Master of Disguise. He's like, I can be.

1122
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 1: You need to just remove yourself. You just need to

1123
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:09,400
Speaker 1: like go and read a book for one. Like just

1124
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:14,719
Speaker 1: it's so infuriating that this character is and it's always

1125
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:18,559
Speaker 1: done in slightly different ways. Frank Lngella plays him in

1126
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 1: and he plays the character very differently. Regardless, it's still

1127
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 1: a huge part and it is not written as a

1128
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 1: huge part. I think it is just a choice that

1129
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:34,680
Speaker 1: lazy male creatives have made to handle the parts of

1130
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 1: the story that they are ill equipped to handle. And

1131
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:41,320
Speaker 1: I feel like it is very clear, you know, if

1132
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 1: you have agreed to adapt this work and you do

1133
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 1: not have experience as a survivor of abuse as a

1134
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 1: young person yourself. The first thing you do is research

1135
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 1: that and speak to people and know what you're fucking

1136
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:02,200
Speaker 1: talking about and adapting. So like it's just like logic,

1137
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:07,439
Speaker 1: like one, yeah, like do you know what you're talking

1138
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 1: about in your work? Like, I just it makes me

1139
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 1: so mad that these mediocre fucking I don't care about

1140
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 1: Stanley Lee Krubrick so whatever dragged me. I don't give

1141
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:23,719
Speaker 1: a ship. He's terrible to women, and I just I whatever.

1142
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 1: I know he's made good movies. I don't really care.

1143
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 1: I just think it's so irresponsible and so lazy. And

1144
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:35,559
Speaker 1: just the fact that people have even attempted to say, like, oh,

1145
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,679
Speaker 1: this is this movie is only bad because of reasons

1146
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 1: that have nothing to do with the filmmaker, who also

1147
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: wrote most of the movie. It's like you can't. I mean,

1148
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 1: I agree that the code is a big part of

1149
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:51,519
Speaker 1: why this movie is never going to work, but it

1150
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:56,320
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with Stanley Kubrick, a whole lot.

1151
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:02,000
Speaker 1: It's just so yeah, because like because when he does

1152
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 1: decide to have lowly to on screen, this is okay.

1153
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 1: So this is something I'm kind of like figuring out

1154
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:09,800
Speaker 1: in real time, so bear with me here. But like

1155
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:14,919
Speaker 1: even the way that she is introduced on screen visually,

1156
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: like the first time we meet her character in the movie,

1157
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 1: she's lying on the lawn. She is in this kind

1158
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:25,720
Speaker 1: of seductive pose, or what the movie would have you

1159
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 1: think is that she like is wearing these sunglasses. She

1160
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:31,599
Speaker 1: like tilts them down in a very kind of like

1161
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 1: film fatality way. I feel like she's like licking a lollipop.

1162
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 1: She's like, well, the thing is, she is not actually

1163
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:43,640
Speaker 1: doing that in the movie, right, This is fascinating, and

1164
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:46,320
Speaker 1: I think it's like, Okay, I know I'm prepared to

1165
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 1: do this podcast, and so I'm like really in it.

1166
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:53,880
Speaker 1: But she doesn't actually do that in the movie. You

1167
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 1: remember it that way because that is what is on

1168
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 1: the poster, and that is what happens in every like

1169
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:04,680
Speaker 1: it's she is presented very sexualized and male gaze in

1170
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 1: her introductory scene. But this whole image that is the

1171
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: I think the most prevalent image that people have taken

1172
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 1: away from any version of this story is the young

1173
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 1: girl wearing heart shaped sunglasses and licking a lollipop. That

1174
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 1: exact image does not appear in the movie. At all.

1175
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:27,760
Speaker 1: It doesn't appear anywhere. It is something that exists nowhere,

1176
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 1: Like it is fucking fascinating to me that it that

1177
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:36,519
Speaker 1: that I mean, that's just marketing. That is literally just

1178
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 1: marketing designed to titilate a male viewer into thinking, you know,

1179
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 1: and she's making eye contact with the camera and that image.

1180
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:48,679
Speaker 1: It's strictly marketing. It has nothing to do with anything.

1181
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 1: But it's the thing that everyone took away from it,

1182
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:53,679
Speaker 1: including me. Apparently. The way she's introduced in the movie

1183
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,000
Speaker 1: is similar. Where she is lying on the lawn, she's

1184
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 1: wearing a bikini. There's a lot of people who have

1185
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 1: including the actress Sue Lyon, who I want to talk

1186
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:06,000
Speaker 1: about a little bit as well, Um who she She implied,

1187
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:08,720
Speaker 1: and many people involved with this production implied that she

1188
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 1: was chosen because she was more developed than many girls

1189
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:15,640
Speaker 1: her age, and she's presented that way. She's presented in

1190
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:19,439
Speaker 1: a bikini. Um, she's you know, hanging out on the lawn,

1191
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:24,320
Speaker 1: she's sunbathing. She looks at him very seductively and kind

1192
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:29,200
Speaker 1: of starts teasing him right away. This is a hyper

1193
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:33,759
Speaker 1: sexualized version of how it's presented in the book. The movie.

1194
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 1: You get a different hyper sexualized version in the book.

1195
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:42,519
Speaker 1: What it is is it's a young girl laying out

1196
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:47,040
Speaker 1: on the lawn reading a magazine, and everything else is

1197
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:51,479
Speaker 1: like it's a very ordinary image, but the way it's

1198
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 1: written by a narrator that you have been told not

1199
01:17:55,560 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 1: to trust is hyper sexualized, and every movie kind of

1200
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 1: adapts it the same. It's the same problem is like

1201
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:06,720
Speaker 1: the framing and the male gaze that comes with this

1202
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 1: is coming from the unreliable male gaze that it's presented

1203
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 1: as in the book, and just it's just these like

1204
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 1: I don't know, like Stanley Cooper has never read a book.

1205
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:19,719
Speaker 1: He doesn't under he clearly hasn't been at grad school, Kalin.

1206
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:24,080
Speaker 1: I mean, he also made a movie that I mean,

1207
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:27,760
Speaker 1: with The Shining that Stephen King hated. He's bad at adaptations,

1208
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 1: as it turns out, he's bad, Like he's I just

1209
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 1: don't like I know that he's making us up. I

1210
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,799
Speaker 1: just don't care. I just don't care. I don't have time. Sorry,

1211
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 1: only so like what my point is that I'm still

1212
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 1: trying to figure out. But like, like the movie does

1213
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 1: frame a lot of what she does as being seductive,

1214
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 1: which I think kind of goes to what happens in

1215
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:54,679
Speaker 1: the book where he's like, oh, this, this nim fit

1216
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:58,800
Speaker 1: is tantalizing me, and like we see we see that

1217
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:01,479
Speaker 1: in the movie where like she's right beside him, like

1218
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:05,160
Speaker 1: doing a hula hoop, which is just a normal activity

1219
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:07,879
Speaker 1: that a child would do. But because he's a predator,

1220
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:12,840
Speaker 1: he is liked is right in that shot, like he's

1221
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:15,840
Speaker 1: staring at her. Do you see her staring You see

1222
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 1: him staring at her? But what we need But because

1223
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:22,120
Speaker 1: because this movie doesn't make it clear at all that

1224
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:26,040
Speaker 1: he is an unreliable narrator, the movie just makes it

1225
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:32,040
Speaker 1: seem like she is deliberately tantalizing him. I think what's

1226
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,360
Speaker 1: in the same way Humbert does by not framing it

1227
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:41,280
Speaker 1: as like it's blaming her. Yeah, I think for that

1228
01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:47,360
Speaker 1: to be approached differently. You okay, remember the scene in

1229
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 1: Fast Times at Regimont High where Phoebe Kates's character is

1230
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 1: getting out of a swimming pool and then you get

1231
01:19:54,680 --> 01:20:00,040
Speaker 1: Judge Reinhold's point of view, like fantasy version of it

1232
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:04,720
Speaker 1: looks like, yeah, he's seeing her in slow motion and

1233
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:08,680
Speaker 1: she's being really sexy and seductive and she takes her

1234
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:12,439
Speaker 1: top off and it's like male gaze for days. And

1235
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:14,760
Speaker 1: then it cuts to what actually is happening, where she

1236
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:17,439
Speaker 1: like jumps out of the pool because she's like choking

1237
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:19,840
Speaker 1: on water and it's like she's got hair all over

1238
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:25,200
Speaker 1: in her face, and it's just like, yes, I totally agree.

1239
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:29,519
Speaker 1: Like it is a very simple I mean, maybe goofy

1240
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:32,000
Speaker 1: for this thing, but like it makes it clear that

1241
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:35,280
Speaker 1: what he's seeing and what is happening are two very different,

1242
01:20:35,479 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 1: very different things. That's what needs to be established here.

1243
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 1: And it never is. It never is in any of

1244
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:46,960
Speaker 1: these adaptations. It never is. I Caitlin, need to send

1245
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:53,639
Speaker 1: you a song that from this musical. I like some

1246
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,360
Speaker 1: people will say that the musical is the best this

1247
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 1: has ever been adapted, which is just a look into

1248
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 1: how horrible the adaptations are there. This is just so

1249
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 1: over the top that I had to laugh. But it's

1250
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:12,720
Speaker 1: very fun. This lyric in the song goes like this,

1251
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 1: it's a lyric about Humbert. The town's talking about Humbert.

1252
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:18,920
Speaker 1: Something's not right with this guy. That's literally what the

1253
01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:22,160
Speaker 1: tone of the song is. And then towns person number

1254
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:26,439
Speaker 1: five says, who is this viper that loves them post diaper?

1255
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:29,519
Speaker 1: That's the line in the song that he sings, he

1256
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 1: says who loves him that? And it is this kind

1257
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:38,600
Speaker 1: of uncritical, like bullshit, like trying to acknowledge what is

1258
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 1: happening without with also while being completely ill equipped to

1259
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:48,559
Speaker 1: do so. Yeah, I just that line really like I

1260
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 1: had to like throw my computer into the ocean after

1261
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 1: I heard that that. It's the most like if you

1262
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:58,360
Speaker 1: want the soundtrack is on YouTube. It's very bizarre. But

1263
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 1: for this, I think, yeah, with the Hula group seen

1264
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:04,640
Speaker 1: as a perfect example of like the movie is blaming

1265
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 1: her for what eventually happens. It is setting the viewer

1266
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:11,160
Speaker 1: up to say that she's quote unquote asking for it.

1267
01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 1: That thing that we have you know, heard and discussed

1268
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 1: so many different times that is lived like that just

1269
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 1: a false narrative that has leveraged against victims. And this

1270
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:27,320
Speaker 1: movie is just like yep, we agreed, which brings me too.

1271
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:31,640
Speaker 1: I think my last major thing for for this is

1272
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:36,919
Speaker 1: talking a little bit about Sue Lion, who played Lolita

1273
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 1: in this movie. She passed away last year and she's

1274
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:46,679
Speaker 1: a very interesting figure in movie history. I've done quite

1275
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:49,920
Speaker 1: a bit of research on her. There's not actually a

1276
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:54,759
Speaker 1: lot because and this is a kind of continuing trend

1277
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:59,960
Speaker 1: that young actresses who are cast as Lovelita historically don't

1278
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:04,960
Speaker 1: tend to work for very long. And I think that again,

1279
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:09,320
Speaker 1: it's everyone is different. I'm not trying to loop all

1280
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:12,280
Speaker 1: of these people into the same narrative, but there are

1281
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 1: similarities that I think are worth mentioning, which include the

1282
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 1: fact and I think it really speaks to Hollywood issues,

1283
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 1: not even issues with the story, it's more societal issues

1284
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 1: of Sue Lion is cast as an unknown for this

1285
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 1: part when she's fourteen. She later describes what sounds like

1286
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:36,800
Speaker 1: She she frames it is like, isn't this funny in

1287
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 1: the eighties? But what she described I thought it sounded

1288
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:43,479
Speaker 1: very fucked up. She she went to this audition with

1289
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:46,439
Speaker 1: Stanley Kubrick, and she frames us by being like, and

1290
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, normally when you go to an audition and

1291
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:50,519
Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, turned this way, I turned this way. Ah,

1292
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 1: here's the line, thanks for coming in, Sia whatever. But

1293
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:57,759
Speaker 1: she said this audition, he asked her very personal questions

1294
01:23:58,080 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 1: right when she got there, and he said, do you

1295
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 1: where do you go? What do you do? What time

1296
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,080
Speaker 1: do you come home? What does your mom think of you?

1297
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:06,880
Speaker 1: Where did you get that dress? What? What size is it? Like?

1298
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:11,160
Speaker 1: Asked her all these really personal questions in order to

1299
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:14,519
Speaker 1: get the role right. So already we're like, okay, if

1300
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:18,120
Speaker 1: you didn't remember why you hated Stanley Kubrick, there's a

1301
01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:22,599
Speaker 1: fun reminder. But so she she's put into this movie,

1302
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:25,840
Speaker 1: she wins a Golden Globe for playing this part, and

1303
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:29,719
Speaker 1: then goes on to really not have much of a career,

1304
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 1: and then she retires from acting pretty young. She has

1305
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:35,320
Speaker 1: a very tumultuous personal life that is not really relevant

1306
01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:40,120
Speaker 1: to our discussion. But all that to say that I

1307
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:44,599
Speaker 1: do believe that there is a stigma that comes with

1308
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:48,679
Speaker 1: playing a role like Lolita, especially when it is written

1309
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:52,639
Speaker 1: as irresponsibly as it regularly is in these adaptations, where

1310
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:56,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like Peter Sellers certainly didn't have a

1311
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 1: fucking problem getting work after being in this movie, James

1312
01:24:59,560 --> 01:25:02,880
Speaker 1: Mason's they didn't have problems. Shelley Winters didn't have problems.

1313
01:25:02,920 --> 01:25:08,760
Speaker 1: But it is these young actresses who are sexualized, over sexualized,

1314
01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:13,240
Speaker 1: playing a character that is in its essence misrepresenting and

1315
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 1: blaming them for what is happening to them. And then

1316
01:25:16,479 --> 01:25:20,560
Speaker 1: you see that they don't even really get to reap

1317
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:23,960
Speaker 1: the benefits of having started this huge movie. They're kind

1318
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:27,559
Speaker 1: of discarded by Hollywood and by the culture at large.

1319
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:31,720
Speaker 1: Of yeah, I mean, there's most Sue Lion movies she

1320
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:34,760
Speaker 1: was in after this, you wouldn't really know, and a

1321
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 1: lot of the there's a similar line that can be

1322
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 1: drawn for the actress who played Lolita in it is

1323
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:46,920
Speaker 1: like a common trend for this character and just extends

1324
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:52,040
Speaker 1: my frustration and my problems with this of like I think,

1325
01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:54,639
Speaker 1: I mean, with what she's given. I think Sue Lyon

1326
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:57,040
Speaker 1: does an excellent job, and I feel the same of

1327
01:25:57,080 --> 01:26:00,960
Speaker 1: dominiques plain and the fact that they would have to

1328
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:05,280
Speaker 1: in some ways it seems bear the brunt and the

1329
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:11,320
Speaker 1: consequences of the people around them mismanaging the story is

1330
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:14,320
Speaker 1: so frustrating to me. I mean it just truly, no

1331
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:18,320
Speaker 1: one else in these productions suffer except I mean, I

1332
01:26:18,360 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 1: don't want to say that, but like, career wise, Stanley

1333
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 1: Kubrick's is fucking fine. Adrian Line. I mean, at least

1334
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:27,800
Speaker 1: you can argue that Adrian Line didn't make a movie

1335
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 1: for't even talking about, thank god. But by and large,

1336
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:38,760
Speaker 1: you know, reputation wise and typecasting wise, Jeremy Irons went

1337
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 1: on to play a number of roles and he's fucking

1338
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:46,679
Speaker 1: the worst person ever. Like, I just I just find

1339
01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:52,560
Speaker 1: that trend to also be frustrating because it just extends

1340
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 1: this blame onto the person playing the character, and that's

1341
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: just I hate that. I hate that so much. H

1342
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:05,559
Speaker 1: It's awful. It's also very telling of just where we've

1343
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:12,720
Speaker 1: been culturally, where you know, we just blame women for everything. Absolutely,

1344
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:17,280
Speaker 1: I it really frustrates me. I'm sorry for bringing this movie,

1345
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:19,400
Speaker 1: but I do. I mean, I'm very curious as to

1346
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 1: what our listeners think if if you, um, we're listening

1347
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:27,479
Speaker 1: to the episode. It's such a complicated work. There's so

1348
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:32,599
Speaker 1: much too obviously talk about, but also just the ways

1349
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:37,040
Speaker 1: that I mean, I feel like of all the irresponsible adaptations,

1350
01:27:37,479 --> 01:27:42,600
Speaker 1: the adaptations of this book in particular have been egregiously terrible,

1351
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:46,360
Speaker 1: to the point where I'm like, if this is how

1352
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:49,920
Speaker 1: it's going to be remembered culturally, do you even want

1353
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:52,080
Speaker 1: the book to have been written? If it's just going

1354
01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:54,800
Speaker 1: to be given to people that you can't get to

1355
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:58,519
Speaker 1: step of researching it, Like, it's just so absurd to

1356
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 1: me because victims, I mean, I think victims deserve better

1357
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:07,920
Speaker 1: than Lolita in general, for sure, but victims deserve better

1358
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:12,439
Speaker 1: in these adaptations as well. Like there's yeah, yeah, so

1359
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:19,240
Speaker 1: this movie is upsetting and frustrating, and historically, I guess

1360
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:23,320
Speaker 1: I would say it's relevant and it marks a very

1361
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:25,680
Speaker 1: specific point in time. But I also I'm just like,

1362
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:28,000
Speaker 1: if you're still out here being like it was just

1363
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:32,479
Speaker 1: the code. Uh, it wasn't. It definitely wasn't. There's a

1364
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 1: lot of other things at play here, none of them good. No.

1365
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:41,599
Speaker 1: The one other thing I remember pretty distinctly from the book,

1366
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 1: and I only remember this because I remember bringing it

1367
01:28:44,920 --> 01:28:48,200
Speaker 1: up in the class discussion we had during the class

1368
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:53,040
Speaker 1: I took in college, where in the book Humbert is

1369
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:59,240
Speaker 1: like obsessed with Lolita's i Q. He's always talking about

1370
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:03,240
Speaker 1: how she has a high i Q. So let's start,

1371
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:05,800
Speaker 1: of course, by saying, and Jamie, I don't have to

1372
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:07,680
Speaker 1: tell you this, but like, I'm in ment i Q.

1373
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:13,240
Speaker 1: I Q tests are like bullshit based on pseudoscience, and

1374
01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:15,000
Speaker 1: you are in mensa. Yes, that's sorry, That's what I

1375
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:19,600
Speaker 1: meant to say. Yeah, no, it's it's it's racist, sexist,

1376
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:22,960
Speaker 1: you name it, pseudoscience. That yeah, he does. I mean,

1377
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:26,240
Speaker 1: I think he intentionally in many points like tries to

1378
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:28,280
Speaker 1: I think I think what he's trying to do there

1379
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:30,200
Speaker 1: is just try to make it sound like she is.

1380
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:34,679
Speaker 1: He's like, well, she's smart, so that means that she's

1381
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:37,639
Speaker 1: older than her age, Like just exactly trying to play

1382
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:42,759
Speaker 1: that angle. Yeah, because like i Q stands for intelligence quotient,

1383
01:29:43,439 --> 01:29:46,000
Speaker 1: which is a number that you get when you divide

1384
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:49,760
Speaker 1: again and this is all like bullshit pseudoscience, but it's

1385
01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:53,960
Speaker 1: when you divide your mental age, which is a number

1386
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:57,479
Speaker 1: that you get from an intelligence test, divide that by

1387
01:29:57,720 --> 01:30:02,519
Speaker 1: your actual chronological age. So if someone scores a one

1388
01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:05,120
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty on an i Q test, which is

1389
01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:07,639
Speaker 1: considered to be a high i Q, and you take

1390
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:10,280
Speaker 1: that test when you're ten years old, it means that

1391
01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:13,799
Speaker 1: your actual your chronological age is ten, but your mental

1392
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:17,240
Speaker 1: age is fifteen. So I feel like Humbred is so

1393
01:30:17,280 --> 01:30:19,599
Speaker 1: obsessed with her i Q because he's like, well, she

1394
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:25,759
Speaker 1: might be twelve chronologically, but she's closer to It's literally,

1395
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,839
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it's it's so yeah, he's he's

1396
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:34,479
Speaker 1: just a fucking bullshit liar. Where that's for like reading

1397
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:40,640
Speaker 1: levels and Matt nothing to do ability to consent, Like

1398
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:43,479
Speaker 1: it's just so bad faith and ridiculous, but I do

1399
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:46,320
Speaker 1: yeah that I uh, but I feel like that is

1400
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:51,240
Speaker 1: like like four predators who try to justify their behavior.

1401
01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:55,479
Speaker 1: They'll they'll site like, oh yeah, well she was maybe

1402
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:59,479
Speaker 1: technically under age, but she was so mature. Yeah. I

1403
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:04,120
Speaker 1: think I feel like that's very common tactic. Yeah, yeah,

1404
01:31:04,160 --> 01:31:08,360
Speaker 1: I mean humber humbert are certainly and embodies a lot

1405
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:14,639
Speaker 1: of common tactics of manipulative abuser. I mean, yeah, hell,

1406
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:16,960
Speaker 1: and that's something that could have been in the movie,

1407
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:21,200
Speaker 1: where like if we see him trying to justify his

1408
01:31:21,360 --> 01:31:26,559
Speaker 1: behavior through you know, the mental gymnastics he's doing, and

1409
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:29,599
Speaker 1: then we see other characters be like, well wait a minute,

1410
01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:37,080
Speaker 1: what So that's another I think opportunity again, if you're

1411
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 1: going to adapt this, that's an opportunity you have as

1412
01:31:40,080 --> 01:31:43,280
Speaker 1: a filmmaker to present these things that he is saying

1413
01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:47,320
Speaker 1: in this very fancy, flowery language in the book and

1414
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:49,720
Speaker 1: then just having to have that character say it as

1415
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:54,160
Speaker 1: dialogue when it will sound predatory and ridiculous and will

1416
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:57,799
Speaker 1: scare people because it's like he doesn't have the luxury

1417
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:00,120
Speaker 1: of talking his way around the topic as he is

1418
01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:03,240
Speaker 1: in the book. That's an I mean, that's something that

1419
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:08,479
Speaker 1: you could have explored of, like how does this person

1420
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:12,559
Speaker 1: try to justify himself in real time? And of course

1421
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 1: it's going to catch up with him. And also a

1422
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:18,679
Speaker 1: lot of what the book deals with that I don't

1423
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:22,400
Speaker 1: think that the movies are successful in is society's failure

1424
01:32:22,479 --> 01:32:26,840
Speaker 1: of Lolita. Not only are we seeing this predator succeed

1425
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:29,760
Speaker 1: in taking her away again and again and again, we

1426
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:33,200
Speaker 1: see her communities has failed her, her school system has

1427
01:32:33,200 --> 01:32:35,960
Speaker 1: failed her, her government has failed her, law enforcement has

1428
01:32:35,960 --> 01:32:40,479
Speaker 1: failed her. She's been failed at every level, and that

1429
01:32:41,240 --> 01:32:45,880
Speaker 1: you know, partially due to this kind of extreme passiveness

1430
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:50,000
Speaker 1: that existed in the nineteen fifties in the US. And

1431
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:54,519
Speaker 1: like that was a very deliberate commentary that again, it's

1432
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:57,640
Speaker 1: just like this movie has no interest or ability, I

1433
01:32:57,640 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 1: don't know which, but like it has no and it

1434
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:04,679
Speaker 1: just is like Peter Sellers is funny. You're just like,

1435
01:33:05,240 --> 01:33:08,960
Speaker 1: how is this where we are like, yeah, well, wouldn't

1436
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:12,800
Speaker 1: it be funny if the hotel is all booked up

1437
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:16,400
Speaker 1: and they can only have one room because there's a

1438
01:33:16,439 --> 01:33:20,960
Speaker 1: police convention there, and oh, the irony of a pedophile

1439
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:24,160
Speaker 1: who's you know, breaking the law has to be around

1440
01:33:24,200 --> 01:33:27,200
Speaker 1: a bunch of cops. T he he what a funny obstacle.

1441
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:33,480
Speaker 1: It's infuriating. It's so like, yeah, creating a comic situation

1442
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:36,719
Speaker 1: out of it, all of it. It's just it's it's

1443
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:40,280
Speaker 1: a it's a waste of everybody's time, and it's worse

1444
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:44,120
Speaker 1: than a ways of time. It's actively detrimental to telling

1445
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:49,080
Speaker 1: a story that could be of use to anybody, to anybody,

1446
01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:51,519
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's I mean, that's why nobody

1447
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:55,200
Speaker 1: talks about this movie is because the book is very controversial,

1448
01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:57,280
Speaker 1: but some people have found value in it, which is

1449
01:33:57,280 --> 01:34:00,200
Speaker 1: why it's such a debate. This movie. No one ever

1450
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:02,479
Speaker 1: found value and so no one is like, well what

1451
01:34:02,600 --> 01:34:06,360
Speaker 1: about Peter Sellers? Like, no one is like, it's a

1452
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:10,880
Speaker 1: it's a useless it's a useless movie, and I and

1453
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:14,640
Speaker 1: I hate that Sue Lion and Shelly Winters had to

1454
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:20,640
Speaker 1: deal with any part of it. Um, thank you for

1455
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:24,840
Speaker 1: being willing to discuss this, this movie with me. I

1456
01:34:24,880 --> 01:34:31,120
Speaker 1: don't worry now I have I'll be using this as collateral.

1457
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:38,320
Speaker 1: Know what's the word something to yeah to? Because you

1458
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:41,519
Speaker 1: know there's some some movies that I know you don't

1459
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:46,120
Speaker 1: want to do that. I'm like, where this is about? Yeah, fine,

1460
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:51,080
Speaker 1: I did Indiana Jones let that that's true there, But

1461
01:34:51,160 --> 01:34:54,479
Speaker 1: in any case, yes, I agree, and I yeah, I

1462
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:58,880
Speaker 1: just my thoughts have been very consumed with this property

1463
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:01,120
Speaker 1: recently and so wanted to bring it on the Bechtel

1464
01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:07,120
Speaker 1: Cast and talk about it with you. Yeah, it's just

1465
01:35:08,479 --> 01:35:11,639
Speaker 1: wow wow wow um. Yeah, So feel free to leave

1466
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:15,120
Speaker 1: your thoughts in the comments. Were very as always, very

1467
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:18,400
Speaker 1: interested in what you have to say. I did not

1468
01:35:18,560 --> 01:35:22,599
Speaker 1: honestly pay attention to if this movie passed. If this

1469
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:26,000
Speaker 1: movie passes the Bechdel tests, I don't give any manner

1470
01:35:26,040 --> 01:35:29,439
Speaker 1: of funk about that. If it does, I don't really care.

1471
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:34,040
Speaker 1: I think it probably does Melita and her mom, but

1472
01:35:34,360 --> 01:35:40,479
Speaker 1: at I just yeah, I don't really care. It doesn't.

1473
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 1: I don't think it matters for this movie. It doesn't

1474
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:46,200
Speaker 1: super matter. No, it's not really relevant to this discussion.

1475
01:35:46,680 --> 01:35:49,080
Speaker 1: And I honestly don't know how to give this movie

1476
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:52,280
Speaker 1: nipples either. I guess I would say zero. I'm going

1477
01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:55,479
Speaker 1: to give it negative one million nipples. Yeah, I guess

1478
01:35:55,520 --> 01:35:58,040
Speaker 1: I'll just say negative. I guess I'll say I barely

1479
01:35:58,120 --> 01:36:02,200
Speaker 1: know that this even apply. I said this discussion, it

1480
01:36:02,360 --> 01:36:05,639
Speaker 1: is like the portrayal in this movie. There, there wasn't

1481
01:36:05,640 --> 01:36:10,120
Speaker 1: even an attempt. It took a flawed attempt at portraying

1482
01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:16,320
Speaker 1: female characters and erased not just Nabokov's problems, but the

1483
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:19,880
Speaker 1: entire character. Just turned the pencil over and y or

1484
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:25,599
Speaker 1: e Uri like just it. Everyone deserves so much better

1485
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:30,799
Speaker 1: than what this movie had to offer. And buck Stanley Kubrick.

1486
01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:36,479
Speaker 1: And that's why I suck the other adaptation, the other

1487
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:40,800
Speaker 1: film one. That one is just the other adaptation. It's

1488
01:36:40,840 --> 01:36:44,439
Speaker 1: Adrian line. He shouldn't have worked for a long time

1489
01:36:44,479 --> 01:36:48,000
Speaker 1: after that. I tell you what the Adrian linement in particular.

1490
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:52,280
Speaker 1: I just I watched it today and I feel terrible.

1491
01:36:52,400 --> 01:36:54,320
Speaker 1: You know what I need to do as a palate

1492
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:57,439
Speaker 1: cleanser for having consumed all this little all these Lolita

1493
01:36:57,520 --> 01:37:02,679
Speaker 1: movies was watch hard Candy. Hard Candy is everything these

1494
01:37:02,760 --> 01:37:06,600
Speaker 1: movies are not. It is a revenge that was. That

1495
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:10,160
Speaker 1: was a fun episode to record. Yes, yes, I and

1496
01:37:10,200 --> 01:37:11,960
Speaker 1: I feel like in a way you can view that

1497
01:37:12,240 --> 01:37:16,120
Speaker 1: movie as kind of a response to movies like Lolita. Yeah,

1498
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:21,200
Speaker 1: I think someone like saw Stanley Kubrick's Lolita and they're like, well, um,

1499
01:37:21,320 --> 01:37:23,599
Speaker 1: I could adopt that better than this, and then they

1500
01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:28,040
Speaker 1: made hard candy. I just it still is so infuriating

1501
01:37:28,080 --> 01:37:30,280
Speaker 1: to me that the image that people take away from

1502
01:37:30,280 --> 01:37:33,040
Speaker 1: this movie doesn't even appear in the movie that says

1503
01:37:33,120 --> 01:37:35,400
Speaker 1: everything you need to know about this movie. It is

1504
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:38,240
Speaker 1: just it tricked me to like I like I had

1505
01:37:38,520 --> 01:37:43,080
Speaker 1: mapped the poster onto that scene. I guess like almost

1506
01:37:43,120 --> 01:37:47,000
Speaker 1: everybody feels this way, like I thought this until I've

1507
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:49,720
Speaker 1: built my life around it for no reason like that.

1508
01:37:51,280 --> 01:37:56,480
Speaker 1: It's so I mean manipulative, like it's it's very effective

1509
01:37:56,520 --> 01:38:03,320
Speaker 1: marketing that is doing bad things like yeah, it is, Uh,

1510
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:06,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. It is a very interesting case study.

1511
01:38:06,280 --> 01:38:11,920
Speaker 1: It's very fucked up and uh you know, yeah, we're

1512
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:14,720
Speaker 1: done talking about it. And now we're done talking. Check

1513
01:38:14,760 --> 01:38:22,240
Speaker 1: out the podcast. Oh wow, we'll be back soon with that.

1514
01:38:22,360 --> 01:38:25,320
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening again. We uh look forward to

1515
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:34,559
Speaker 1: your perspectives or we'll see it I Frankenstein. Yes, well

1516
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:39,880
Speaker 1: that was our unlocked Lolita episode and once again Jamie

1517
01:38:40,120 --> 01:38:44,320
Speaker 1: tell people where and when and how they can listen

1518
01:38:44,360 --> 01:38:50,400
Speaker 1: to Lolita Podcast. Lolita Podcast comes out on November twenty three,

1519
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:54,439
Speaker 1: and then new episodes are released every Monday right here

1520
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:58,480
Speaker 1: on on I Heart Radio or wherever you get your podcast,

1521
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:03,439
Speaker 1: and that's the official like edge uh but yeah, I

1522
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:07,080
Speaker 1: uh that So as far as like, there is one

1523
01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:12,880
Speaker 1: entire episode dedicated to like deep background on this movie

1524
01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:15,880
Speaker 1: in particular, but at a ten episode series, so we're

1525
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:18,280
Speaker 1: taking a look at the book, We're taking a look

1526
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:21,600
Speaker 1: at the author, We're taking a look at the other adaptations.

1527
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:26,440
Speaker 1: There is also entire episodes dedicated to talking to professionals

1528
01:39:26,439 --> 01:39:28,720
Speaker 1: and child psychiatry and just like other and and the

1529
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:31,639
Speaker 1: ways that people have reclaimed this text over the years,

1530
01:39:32,240 --> 01:39:36,719
Speaker 1: and um, it's an interesting ride. I hope that people

1531
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:39,439
Speaker 1: will listen. But yeah, it's just uh, it's just a

1532
01:39:39,479 --> 01:39:44,519
Speaker 1: podcast that will come out on Mondays soon. Excellent. Well,

1533
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:51,000
Speaker 1: speaking of plugs, because this was an unlocked Matreon episode,

1534
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:53,720
Speaker 1: we said at the beginning of the episode, we'll repeat ourselves.

1535
01:39:54,080 --> 01:39:56,160
Speaker 1: Check out our Matreon and you can do that by

1536
01:39:56,200 --> 01:40:00,920
Speaker 1: going to patreon dot com slash pectel Cast. It gets

1537
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:05,120
Speaker 1: you access to two brand new bonus episodes every single month,

1538
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:09,839
Speaker 1: plus access to the entire back catalog of bonus episodes,

1539
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:12,960
Speaker 1: and like we mentioned, there are upwards of eighty by

1540
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:16,919
Speaker 1: now and if you're listening when this comes out in November,

1541
01:40:17,800 --> 01:40:20,839
Speaker 1: we just we're in the middle of Mary Kate Nashley

1542
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:27,720
Speaker 1: month on an important moments in world history. You thought

1543
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:30,599
Speaker 1: this episode was a critical discussion, wait till you get

1544
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:36,519
Speaker 1: to two different Mary Kate Nashley movies. H too too

1545
01:40:36,560 --> 01:40:39,320
Speaker 1: much discourse for one episode. So but there there's a

1546
01:40:39,360 --> 01:40:42,479
Speaker 1: lot of fun stuff. We always cover um garbage holiday

1547
01:40:42,520 --> 01:40:45,960
Speaker 1: movies in December, and it's just it's a fun ride.

1548
01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:49,120
Speaker 1: So uh meet us over and the matron from More

1549
01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:54,160
Speaker 1: Yes indeed and um yeah all the other stuff. Follow

1550
01:40:54,200 --> 01:40:57,200
Speaker 1: us on social media at Bechtelcast on Twitter and Instagram.

1551
01:40:57,760 --> 01:41:01,559
Speaker 1: Check out our merch on uh public dot com slash

1552
01:41:01,640 --> 01:41:04,920
Speaker 1: the Bechtel Cast. The perfect time for Baby Grinch March

1553
01:41:05,720 --> 01:41:08,759
Speaker 1: or as I like car now, Green Baby Boy, Green

1554
01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:13,479
Speaker 1: Baby Boy, you need to do a whole after Lolita

1555
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:15,880
Speaker 1: is over. You need to do a separate podcast about

1556
01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:19,080
Speaker 1: your journey with Green Baby Boy. I honestly will need

1557
01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:22,800
Speaker 1: the relief after after wean Lovelita for six months to

1558
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:25,960
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, this this podcast is just about Baby Grinch.

1559
01:41:26,240 --> 01:41:30,599
Speaker 1: Let's just cut to the chase, um and well, if

1560
01:41:30,600 --> 01:41:34,080
Speaker 1: you'll allow me to plug something of mine. I have

1561
01:41:34,240 --> 01:41:38,160
Speaker 1: a still pretty new Instagram live show that I do

1562
01:41:38,280 --> 01:41:42,640
Speaker 1: every Thursday on my Instagram, which you can find that

1563
01:41:42,720 --> 01:41:47,200
Speaker 1: at Caitlin Darante. It's called Movie Talk with Caitlin and

1564
01:41:47,320 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 1: it's just me and a guest chatting about movies. It's

1565
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:55,559
Speaker 1: not the Bechtel Cast because I do no preparation. There's

1566
01:41:55,600 --> 01:41:58,599
Speaker 1: no specific movie that gets discussed. It's just a loose

1567
01:41:58,720 --> 01:42:03,960
Speaker 1: convo to you were my first guest, what a what

1568
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:06,840
Speaker 1: a blast? And many and and I think so far

1569
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:09,599
Speaker 1: all friends of the cast have been on this so far,

1570
01:42:10,280 --> 01:42:13,400
Speaker 1: because it turns out the only people I know our

1571
01:42:13,640 --> 01:42:17,720
Speaker 1: former guests on our show. Well well, well, the way

1572
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:19,640
Speaker 1: I was thinking of it is like we truly just

1573
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:25,240
Speaker 1: bring our friends on our show, because that's true. Yeah,

1574
01:42:25,280 --> 01:42:28,320
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think I'll keep it pretty close to

1575
01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:31,720
Speaker 1: to to Bectel Cast friends on on Movie Talk. So

1576
01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:36,080
Speaker 1: check that out again every Thursday at six pm Pacific,

1577
01:42:36,680 --> 01:42:41,280
Speaker 1: nine pm Eastern. And that's again on my Instagram at

1578
01:42:41,400 --> 01:42:46,840
Speaker 1: Caitlin Darante. And I think that doesn't right, I think,

1579
01:42:46,960 --> 01:42:49,920
Speaker 1: so yeah, I have a have a great week, everybody,

1580
01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:54,560
Speaker 1: and uh, we'll see you next week with another episode.

1581
01:42:56,600 --> 01:43:00,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what I was gonna say with another episode, goodbye,

1582
01:43:00,200 --> 01:43:01,320
Speaker 1: it's true. Bye bye,