WEBVTT - Changing the Retail Industry, with Jane Mosbacher Morris 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.640 We are so proud to partner with Secret Deodorant for 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:06.600 today's episode of Made by Women. Just as women entrepreneurs 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:10.000 have long fought for equality in business, Secret has been 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.000 a long time advocate of equal pay and equal treatment 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.800 for women through initiatives such as their Equal Work, Equal Sweat, 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.960 Equal Pay campaign with the U S Women's National soccer 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.320 team and Women Owned Wednesdays to support women owned businesses. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.280 We'd love to see Secret continuing to work to ensure 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.760 that all the things that make women sweat, inequality isn't 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:41.320 one of them. Secret All Strength, No Sweat. Welcome to 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.160 Made by Women, a new podcast by the Seneca Women 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:49.040 Podcast Network and I Heart Radio. At a moment when 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.720 businesses face some of the biggest challenges in recent history, 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:56.440 we bring you inspiring stories, practical insights, and shared learnings 0:00:56.640 --> 0:01:02.240 to help you successfully navigate in today's environment. Every Thursday, 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:06.560 Made by Women will showcase the experiences of legendary women entrepreneurs, 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.640 fierce up and comers, and everyday women who found success 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:17.240 their own way. Consider this your Real World NBA designed 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:21.440 for the New Now. I'm Kim Azzarelli and thanks so 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:29.679 much for joining us today. Jane moss Backer Morris wants 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.319 the world to think differently about the way our goods 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:36.119 are manufactured, where they come from, and who makes them. 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:40.160 Jane's company, To the Market connects retailers to ethical sources 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:44.440 for apparel, accessories, and home goods. The products sourced by 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.520 to the Market are sold by Fortune five companies and 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:52.320 manufactured by hundreds of small suppliers from around the world. Now, 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.960 Jane's background is not what you might expect. She worked 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.320 in the U. S Department of States, Bureau of Counter 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.640 Terrorism and in the Secretary Office of Global Women's Issues. 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.320 She also worked at the McCain Institute for International Leadership 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.800 as their Director of Humanitarian Action. So how did Jane's 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:14.480 path lead to entrepreneurship and founding to the Market. Today 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.720 I talked to Jane about her company, her deep belief 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:21.760 that consumers can create positive change through their purchases, and 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.640 why in business it's possible both to do well and 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.680 do good. I also spoke to Jane about what gives 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.360 her strength and what makes her sweat about running her 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:39.240 own business. Enjoy our conversation, Jane, thanks so much for 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.640 joining us. We are thrilled to have you on Made 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.000 by Women. Thank you for having me. So you run 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.680 an unbelievable organization that the whole world should know about. 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.520 So for our listeners, what is to the market. So 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.240 to the market is a business with the mission of 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:01.200 changing the way that retail manufacturing is done to empower 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:06.240 people and protect the planet. And what that means in 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:10.639 practice is we are literally trying to make retail products 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:15.079 more ethically and more sustainably. That's an awesome mission. And 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.040 we didn't choose a small goal. So you started this 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.400 um when when did you start the business? So we 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:24.600 became a corporation in six But I had been working 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.040 on the business, I mean gosh for years and years, 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:33.400 really just trying to understand where there was opportunity to 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:40.080 create and sustain jobs and how I could particularly focus 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:44.840 on employing women and our supply chain in an ethical 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:49.600 and scalable way. But spent many a year working on 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.880 it before we really started to launch and scale. And 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:55.920 did you always want to be an entrepreneur or was 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.320 this something that came to you later in life. I 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.920 think I always had of an entrepreneurial bug. I mean 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.600 I thinking back as like a girl, I was always 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:10.600 really into girl scout cookie selling. I love that you know, 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.400 I had sort of that that desire to to hustle. 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.800 But I would say, um, as I became a professional adult, 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.080 I absolutely did not anticipating starting a business. I mean, 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:25.480 as you know, I started my career in counter terrorism 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.640 at the U. S Department of State, and UM was 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:32.400 focused on women in national security, but thought I would 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.120 stay in national security for years and years to come. 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.920 So you so, you're at the State Department, You're doing 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:43.760 counter terrorism. You have this kind of entrepreneurial bug in you. 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.360 Did you have any experience from retail? So I worked 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:52.120 retail in high school, and honestly, I didn't love it. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.840 I thought it was really tough. You know. Little did 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:00.320 I know that I would be starting a retail based business. So, 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:03.520 so tell us about the trip you took to India 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.480 and what inspired to the market. So, you know, I 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.680 was out state, I was focused on women in national security. 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:17.440 I started focusing on broader issues of women and human security, 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.160 and UM. I ended up after I left the State Department, 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:25.280 going to work on labor exploitation, and I ended up 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:31.800 in Calcutta, India and visited these two cooperatives that were 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:36.680 employing both survivors of human trafficking as well as employing 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:41.080 persons that were vulnerable to trafficking. And I remember being 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:45.680 so blown away by the business model because they were 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:50.680 employing these women in a dignified way to produce products 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:55.000 that I thought were beautiful products. But I also loved 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:59.599 the approach of I'm going to address a social justice issue, 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:03.880 the idea of fair labor through a business approach, and 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.159 so it planted the seed of like, well, how would 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:10.440 we leverage retail and all of the buying power that 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.800 women have around the world to create a more ethical 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:18.880 supply chain and to create and sustain jobs for communities 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:24.400 like these women who have consistently been overlooked, underrepresented, and 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.640 not you know, taken seriously in the global market. That's 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.479 an amazing idea and a big idea which could solve 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.599 so many problems. So what were the first steps to 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:39.080 launching something so impactful like that. Well, I had, you know, 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:44.040 these initial cooperatives that I had visited, and then I 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.839 began to think about, well, how many other ethical suppliers 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:54.279 exists like this around the world, and how scalable is 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:58.960 this concept of working with these ethical suppliers and having 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:05.640 them replace the work that's being done by factories that 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:10.680 have questionable environmental and social footprints. With these ethical suppliers, 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.360 so I did a lot of research, a lot of 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:19.000 interviewing both buyers in the United States who are making 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:23.720 purchasing decisions, as well as traveling and spending time with 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:28.400 these different ethical suppliers and better understanding what are their 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:33.760 constraints to scaling, why are they struggling to reach you know, 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:39.160 national sales or international sales, and what value add can 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:42.480 I provide? So what was it like to start something 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.840 like that and what setbacks did you face? Was there 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.840 anything that really made you sweat? Well, one of the 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:55.400 initial challenges we had was a people asked me, well, 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:59.840 why are you not a nonprofit? And my response to 0:07:59.880 --> 0:08:05.480 them was, this is about creating and sustaining dignified work, 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:14.200 and this is about changing the way that consumers and 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:18.960 businesses are sourcing their products. This isn't about pity purchases. 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:25.480 Until really having like helping people reframe the way they 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:29.679 thought about these suppliers, because there was also these biases 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:34.280 that somehow these suppliers because they weren't operating in the 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.720 massive traditional factories that we as Americans tend to think 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:42.360 of now as it relates to me manufacturing, there were 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.560 these biases that, oh, well, the product surely can't be 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:51.400 as well made or you must have really low production capacity, 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.600 and so I had, you know, this uphill battle of 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.320 having to prove them wrong because they were looking for 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.840 you know, quality issue or expecting us not to be 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:06.400 able to hit certain delivery by dates, and so just 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:10.040 changing the way people think about how products are made 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.680 and who they're made by so that they feel comfortable 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:16.240 with the idea that, of course you can source ethically 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.600 and sustainably and have just as good, if not better 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:24.160 of a product than these traditional, massive, massive factories that 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:28.880 we have sadly become so reliant on. So changing people's 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.760 mindsets is a really big thing. Uh, And you know, 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:37.120 only step one in your business was changing people's mindsets. 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.240 So how did you approach that. I think it's through 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.800 just education and then proof of concept, so you know, 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:50.720 telling them the production capacity that exists. And one of 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:55.000 the big sort of revelations for me when I was 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.800 trying to decide how I was going to engage in 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:03.880 job creation and sustainment was this realization that retail production 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:09.080 is the second largest economy in the developing world. Agriculture 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:15.120 is one artisan or retail production is too, and so 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:20.040 this is a multibillion dollar business, and so helping folks 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:26.440 understand that the scale of the opportunity was important, but 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:29.480 then just as important, if not more important, was then 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.840 showing them through delivery of the goods how great it looked, 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:38.199 and how great the service and the experience was, and 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:44.360 how much more impactful their dollar was by by making 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:48.440 purchases that were better aligned with all of the you know, 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:53.520 value commitments that they make publicly. When you're actually aligning 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:58.960 your dollar with your values right right now, that's that's key, 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.719 I mean, And it's so true. There's so much out 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.520 there publicly, but are people really really taking it to heart, 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.239 really doing it? I want to get into the operations 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:11.199 of everything, because what you're doing is a really complicated 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.559 logistics issue, and it's a serious logistics puzzle. So how 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:19.000 did you do it? Well? Um, Luckily, I grew up 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:26.319 with an extremely organized mother to me really uh create 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:32.040 very very detailed sort of ways of systematizing my work 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.600 and my thinking, and so it was really a function 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.839 of creating structure, like what was our strategy and our 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.840 structure for identifying these makers, what was our strategy and 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.240 structure for vetting these makers, What was going to be 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:51.960 the process through which we started sending purchase orders to 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:57.080 these makers. So I think, you know, creating this strategy 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.600 and the structure it was hard, but once we have 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:05.760 created it, it's it's actually quite smooth. We have a 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.559 maker that gets identified, and that could be a small 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.079 artisan group up to a large scale fair Trade certified 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:16.320 or God's Organic certified factory. If they pass our vetting, 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.199 they then become a part of to the market's supplier base, 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.720 and we then tap into that supplier base when clients 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.360 come to us with specific needs, and these suppliers then 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:33.640 bid on these opportunities to produce for our clients, whether 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:38.000 that be a large retailer like a Target, a brand 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.120 um like a Madewell, or you know, even nonprofits like 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.480 Every Mother Counts. All of these organizations are interested more 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:51.960 and more in sustainability and an ethical manufacturing and they're 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.559 looking for ways to um leverage their supply chain to 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.319 do good and we are trying to make it as 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:02.200 easy as possible for them to do So that's incredible 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:04.120 if you just think about the kind of reach you 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.240 could have by partnering with those organizations. It's it's such 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.400 a powerful concept, So how did you get people to 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.920 understand the power of their purchases and to connect with 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.000 the people who made these products. This is an evolving 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:22.880 sort of process, and we're constantly learning on how to 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:30.000 best articulate the impact. I think originally I probably was 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:35.560 a lot more descriptive around sort of policy and like 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:39.400 community impact, and that was really, I think a reflection 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.079 of my time having worked in the government and in 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:46.120 the not for profit space, where I felt like I 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:50.800 wanted to really help people understand the issues in depth, 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:55.520 And what I came to better understand is that actually 0:13:55.559 --> 0:14:01.520 I needed to really simplify it for people to be 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.360 able to convey to to easily process it and convert 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.360 into making change. Otherwise the information was just too overwhelming. 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:15.280 So we've really tried to simplify our messaging around even 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.360 saying empower people and protect the planet. I mean that is, 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.280 you know, a handful of words, but it goes years 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.640 to get there. And I always think of Churchill saying, 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.400 you know, I wish I had written a and I'm paraphrasing, 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.200 but I think he said something like I wish I 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.560 had written a shorter letter, but I didn't have enough time. 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:36.920 But you did it so well in your book. You know, 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.400 the title of your book by the Change you want 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:44.200 to See? I mean that really, that really says it all, um, 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.040 and I think that's really powerful. Did you write the 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.360 book for with the goal of trying to educate consumers 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:54.320 as well as uh the suppliers? Totally? I mean, I 0:14:54.360 --> 0:15:00.240 think that the book was an opportunity for me too, 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:06.200 put down so many thoughts that I had around why 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:11.920 I think conscious consumerism can be simplified and how I 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.760 hope people think about it, which is this idea of 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:19.480 values alignment with your purchasing power. And I also really 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:23.640 wanted people to realize that conscious consumerism doesn't have to 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:28.520 be elitist or only for a specific type of person, 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.560 or that you land on one one place in the 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:35.680 political spectrum. The idea was that you know, regardless of 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:40.760 your values, um, you spend money, and through the money 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:45.120 that you spend, you have an opportunity to advance your 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:50.280 values by supporting businesses that are aligned with those values. 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.000 So that could be everything from you know, I want 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:57.600 to support black owned businesses too. I'm specifically interested in 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:02.360 only buying fair trade certified products. I mean everybody has, 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:04.920 you know, things that are more important to them than others. 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.400 It's not just for one sort of value set. The 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.000 intent is for everybody to say, well, what's really important 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.040 to me, How can I be a part of making 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.560 change through my purchasing power? Because the one thing we 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:19.200 all do have in common is purchasing right, So I 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:22.000 mean everybody can make a difference with their with their 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.960 purchasing power. I think that's really an important message that 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:26.840 you bring to the world. But just back to this 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:28.880 point that you're a social business. I mean, I guess 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:30.280 a lot of people would say, why don't you want 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:31.960 to be a nonprofit? And I think you made that 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:36.480 point earlier about making the case for doing well and 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.360 doing good? Uh, do you think more people are starting 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:43.400 to understand the value of social businesses totally? I mean, 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.520 even in like the last three years, I've seen such 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:52.120 a shift in the way that people think about social 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.480 good within the business where even you know, several years ago, 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:59.000 I think people thought that it was a luxury, and 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.040 more and more the realizing it is a necessity if 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.919 you want to survive and engage with the millennial and 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:09.640 gen Z population as well as the broader population as 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.639 we collectively think differently about the role of the private 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:18.680 sector in leading and um, you know, having an impact 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:23.000 on social good that you will be a dying brand 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:27.560 if you do not consider how your values are intertwined 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:31.760 with your operations. Not that long ago businesses kind of 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:34.680 had purpose on one side and profit somewhere else. And 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:38.399 this idea that you could integrate purpose into your value proposition. 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.120 And I think companies are right that will succeed long 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:42.720 term will be the ones that really know how to 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.720 give as part of their business strategy and and be 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.879 part of solutions. You work with probably thousands of women 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.680 entrepreneurs around the world, so you kind of are an expert. 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:54.760 You're an entrepreneur yourself, and you work with thousands of 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.879 women entrepreneurs around the world helping them, uh, you know, 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.159 create a market for their for their products. What did 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.040 nobody tell you about running a business or starting a 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.000 business that you wish you had known? Oh, so many things. 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.720 Probably I mean for women in particular, I think we 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:18.720 tend to be a bit more risk averse. And because 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.199 we tend to be more risk averse, I think we 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:31.240 tend to react differently to rejection, meaning that I had, 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.520 i would say, pretty thin skin on sort of the 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:39.720 rejection test. And what I wish someone had told me 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.280 is that I will be rejected on a daily basis. 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.120 You know, for anyone who is even starting a nonprofit, 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:52.399 you are constantly pitching and selling your idea to employees, 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:58.359 to investors, to donors, to the broader public, and you 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.320 are likely going to face pretty consistent rejection if you're 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.959 doing as much outreach as you should be doing. And 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.720 so that was a big lesson for me because, to 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:13.840 be totally frank, I was used to this sort of 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:18.320 formula of if I work really really hard and I 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:22.359 input X, then why will be the output? You know? 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.919 That's so true, and part of being an entrepreneur is 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.199 kind of getting comfortable with the word no and not 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:30.560 taking as rejection, right, and you know, recognizing that that's 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.240 kind of part of everyday life and it's kind of 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.880 not necessarily personal. I guess sometimes its personal, but most 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:38.840 of the time, it's just like you said, it's just 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:42.359 the nature of of business and and starting something, and 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.880 especially when you're starting something like you you did, which 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:47.639 is really changing the world and hasn't been done before 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.119 in the way you're envisioning it, So you know, you 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.119 have to educate people on so many levels, and then 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:53.560 at the same time you have to go through the 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.199 whole pitch process on every level. So when you're in 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:58.320 that situation and you're getting you know, as you said, 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.600 like no, after no, after no, after no, what gives 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:04.800 you strength in that moment? I think still believing in 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:09.359 what I'm doing, which is also why I recommend anybody 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.959 who is thinking about starting a business, a nonprofit, a 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:17.200 project within an organization that you have to be deeply 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:23.399 passionate and convicted about what you're doing for it to 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.840 be sustainable and not not sort of environmentally sustainable, I 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:33.320 mean like sustainable in your life because it is very 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:39.640 very challenging emotionally, mentally, spiritually, physically, Like it is truly 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.080 um will test you in ways that you likely have 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:48.199 never been tested. And when everybody is telling you that 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:52.080 your idea is crummy as heck, it is that commitment, 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:57.680 in that passion for addressing the problem you're trying to address, 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:01.359 that will, you know, keep you sort of slugging forward. 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:03.760 I couldn't agree more, but it's worth it. I mean, 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:05.960 it's just so worth it to see your vision comes 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:07.560 to come to life. I mean, have you felt that 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:10.200 as you've kind of developed this over the past several years. 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:12.000 I mean, really, the world that's kind of coming in 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:16.040 your direction, you probably have a lot to do with that. Well, gosh, 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.560 I mean, there have been so many loads over the 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.880 course of this business and journey. I mean, I actually 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.119 one of my my next book is I want to 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:31.879 compile like the most hilarious founder fails that I've identified, 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.520 because I've had just like massive fails, and I feel 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.840 like it's so important to share these stories of like 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.040 here's what happened, and you know, and it doesn't have 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:43.800 to be like my business failed. It can be like, 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:46.959 you know, I have these like epic experiences of like, 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.120 you know, delivering goods and just like the worst thing 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:52.080 on the planet happening. I mean, I remember we were 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:57.560 delivering hearst and I was, um, they're like delivery went 0:21:57.560 --> 0:21:59.720 to the wrong location. And so I had like a 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:01.960 cur your common deliver it and I was helping the 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.359 courier deliver it and literally like the box that was 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:07.880 carrying their product exploded on the street in New York, 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.600 like near their office, and I remember being like, ah, 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.080 like this is this is um, this is the glamor 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:19.639 of being an entrepreneur. You just gosh, you love the 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.879 heck out of what you're doing because the failure is 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:26.840 real and it's inevitable, and it's also important, like it's 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:30.919 an important part of that process. So so UH, and 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:33.080 there's a lot of pivots. You know, we're in this 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:37.200 very difficult moment in our country's history and the world's history. 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:41.320 Frankly and Uh, I had spoken with you a few 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:45.639 months back, UM, as COVID was becoming a reality of 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:49.280 all of our lives. How did that impact your business 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:56.280 model and operations? Well, when when COVID became as real 0:22:56.359 --> 0:23:01.200 as it is, it was clear to my team that 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:05.280 there was a ppe shortage in the United States. So 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:10.480 this is personal protective equipment. And so I and the 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:13.120 team decided that we wanted to go out to our 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:16.439 suppliers because we have these hundreds of suppliers around the world, 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:20.080 and wanted to engage to see who is capable of 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:24.879 making masks and gowns because we had expertise in importing 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:29.080 in production UM, and so I thought, well, gosh, maybe 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:32.560 we can be helpful, and it turned out that our 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:35.680 suppliers were capable of making a lot of this product, 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:41.080 and so we started pitching this PPE product to hospitals 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:44.760 and you know, to date have delivered over three million 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:49.639 units of PPE. That's incredible, three million, did you say, yes? 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:52.639 Three million? Yeah? And how many businesses are involved with that? 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:57.359 Like how many suppliers? Oh tends? I mean UM all 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:00.840 over the world. I mean We've sourced from United States, 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:05.480 we have Union production, which I'm so proud of UM 0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:09.680 in New Jersey. We have makers in Ghana, in Kenya, 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:15.040 in West Bank, in Bangladesh, in Hong Kong, I mean 0:24:15.160 --> 0:24:23.280 just really India, truly all over, And I'm delighted because 0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:27.600 it's important that we have a syndicated supply chain, meaning 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:32.160 that we have diversity and our suppliers from a risk 0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:36.720 mitigation standpoint, because as everyone I'm sure is familiar with, 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:40.040 we've had these waves of country closures. But I'm also 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:44.040 so grateful that we were able to carry on the 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:48.640 mission of the business, which is too in to partner 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:54.720 with UM suppliers that are are respectful of their employees 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:59.080 and are operating in a better way for for the planet, 0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:02.400 and have so much of the money that is being 0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:04.920 spent in this country on this product be channeled to 0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:08.840 job creation and job sustainment for these makers. Well, it's 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:11.040 so incredible that you're able to take your Brownie spark 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:13.960 and then your state department experience and build something that 0:25:14.000 --> 0:25:16.680 could just impact so many people. It all comes back 0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:20.800 to the Brownies. I'm positive that like that that like 0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:23.679 catalog of like the bike I could win if I 0:25:23.760 --> 0:25:27.480 sold enough boxes. Like It's very ingrained in my head, 0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:30.919 and I think it's so important for women in particular 0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:34.520 to learn sales. Yeah, because this is like really the 0:25:34.640 --> 0:25:40.520 chance that we get an opportunity to pitch and to 0:25:40.640 --> 0:25:45.840 like have that experience of feeling comfortable like asking of people. Yeah, yeah, 0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:47.800 that's so true. I think it kind of ties back 0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:50.760 to what you're saying earlier about about you know, getting 0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:52.919 comfortable with rejection and being comfortable with the word now, 0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:55.359 because if you can't take no, you won't ask. So 0:25:55.760 --> 0:25:57.240 I think if you can just get comfortable with no, 0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:02.119 then you can kind of ask for anything totally. Yes, So, now, 0:26:02.400 --> 0:26:05.280 how do you envision your business moving forward? Um in 0:26:05.280 --> 0:26:07.639 a world that hopefully is going to be healing from 0:26:07.720 --> 0:26:12.480 COVID nineteen. Well, we are planning to continue to provide 0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:17.359 ppe as long as it's needed. And I'm happy that 0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:24.439 we're also distributing product in countries where we're having the 0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:28.080 product be made as well, So we are distributing masks 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:34.520 in Kenya, in Ghana. UM we're also doing sort of 0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:37.919 starting to do some donations of masks. We're partnering with 0:26:37.960 --> 0:26:41.959 the i r C to to donate masks two refugees 0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:47.879