Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to I Choose Me, the podcast about the
Speaker 2: choices we make, and you know what, many of us
Speaker 2: are in the Sandwich generation, facing those tough choices with
Speaker 2: and for our aging parents. My guest, I Vet Nicole Brown,
Speaker 2: has made it her mission to support caregivers. In this
Speaker 2: bonus episode, she shares encouragement and practical tips for me
Speaker 2: and for you. Here's more of our conversation. So, Nicole,
Speaker 2: I wanted to talk to you a little bit more
Speaker 2: about something that I know.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Sorry, people do it all the time.
Speaker 3: Let's leave this in because I.
Speaker 1: Made your nickname is Vet Nicole.
Speaker 3: Right, But no, now I need to point this out.
Speaker 3: Leave this in because I get called Nicole all the time,
Speaker 3: and I really want to talk to a linguist or
Speaker 3: someone that understands words or names, because I think it's
Speaker 3: because Yvett is not a strong I think Nicole is
Speaker 3: a stronger name.
Speaker 2: It comes out first, like it's more naturally.
Speaker 3: Come. Yeah, they hear Vet Nicole bron I'll go, what's
Speaker 3: your name is Vetnicole Brown? They go hind and Cole.
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, So it's interesting. I think Yvett just
Speaker 3: doesn't have the punch that Nicole has. And I'm telling you, cousins,
Speaker 3: relatives of mine have called me Nicole.
Speaker 1: It's easy to do if you have a double name exactly.
Speaker 3: So I want to make sure. I want you to
Speaker 3: leave it in because I do want someone to tell
Speaker 3: me why it happens if anybody knows help my name.
Speaker 3: So it's not you know, it's hard for me.
Speaker 1: Honestly, I have to think that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me ask you this. Do you think it's
Speaker 3: also because of Nicole Brown Simpson?
Speaker 1: Sure? Yeah, right, So you hear Vet Nicole.
Speaker 3: Brown and you think Brown Simpson, and you say Nicole.
Speaker 1: I didn't go to Simpson. I went to Nicole Brown.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I have theories. I have theories about it, but yeah,
Speaker 3: go ahead.
Speaker 1: So what you want to say.
Speaker 2: I just want to talk about caregiving because caregiving is
Speaker 2: something that all of us are most likely going to
Speaker 2: have to look at at some point in our lives,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean it can feel really like the
Speaker 2: opposite of choosing yourself when this comes down your driveway. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and there are so many like pamphlets and books and
Speaker 2: discussions about how to be a good parent, But what
Speaker 2: about how to be a parent to your parent?
Speaker 1: Basically?
Speaker 3: How about that?
Speaker 1: But who knew that was coming.
Speaker 3: I always joke that there's no book on caregiving, but
Speaker 3: I realized that there probably are, we just don't have
Speaker 3: time to read it. So it's it's caregiving is I
Speaker 3: always say it's the best tough thing I've ever done,
Speaker 3: or the toughest best thing I've ever done, and it is.
Speaker 3: It seems like it's not, and I choose me moment,
Speaker 3: but I realize that it is because in choosing a
Speaker 3: care for my dad, it was me planning a flag
Speaker 3: in the space of knowing that I am a loving,
Speaker 3: sacrificially loving person. It confirmed to me that it wasn't
Speaker 3: just talk that if Robert meets the road, I am
Speaker 3: going to show up for the people that made me.
Speaker 3: And that was a wonderful thing to realize one hundred
Speaker 3: percent about myself. And the reason I talk about it
Speaker 3: so much is I want other people to know that
Speaker 3: I'm not special, I'm not a hero. There's nothing magical
Speaker 3: about me. This is something that everyone can do. Caregiving
Speaker 3: is something that before we leave here, everyone will either
Speaker 3: be a caregiver or a caregiving that's statistics. At some point,
Speaker 3: you will care for another person or someone will care
Speaker 3: for you. Now, for some people, that's being a parent
Speaker 3: your kids. They don't call parents caregivers, but that's what
Speaker 3: you're doing. And caregiving is just love. It's just extending
Speaker 3: love to someone other than yourself, and so we all
Speaker 3: do that. Caregiving could be sending your aunt Instacart groceries
Speaker 3: across a couple of states. It could be giving your land,
Speaker 3: your neighbor, or a ride to the hospital and back
Speaker 3: when they have to have a procedure. That is caregiving.
Speaker 3: It's just loving another person, and we all are equipped
Speaker 3: to do it. I tried to with Squeezed and with
Speaker 3: everything else I do in the caregiving space, I tried
Speaker 3: to demystify it.
Speaker 1: I talked about Squeezed.
Speaker 2: You have a podcast that talks specifically about caregiving.
Speaker 3: Yes, so Squeezed. We're in our second year with Lemonata Media,
Speaker 3: which I'm really happy to be working with them. It's
Speaker 3: a podcast about caregiving from every area, from people that
Speaker 3: care for their parents, willingly, from people who care for
Speaker 3: family members that they don't have a relationship with. We
Speaker 3: talked to the Secretary of Health and Human services last
Speaker 3: year Javier Basera, which was great. We talked to a
Speaker 3: death doula, so we talked about caregiving and what happens
Speaker 3: when the person that you're caring for or another loved
Speaker 3: one passes away. How do you deal with that. We've
Speaker 3: talked to teachers, We've talked to parents. We talked to
Speaker 3: Seth and Laura Miller Rogan this year about Hilarity for Charity,
Speaker 3: this amazing organization they have that helps in the Alzheimer's space.
Speaker 3: So we've talked to I don't know how many people,
Speaker 3: and we've hit it from every direction. And the goal
Speaker 3: of Squeezed is for the caregivers who are in the
Speaker 3: journey to have a friend and a respite in the midst.
Speaker 3: It's the kind of podcast you can turn on while
Speaker 3: you're sitting with the person you care for, while you're
Speaker 3: making dinner for the person that you're caring for, or
Speaker 3: while you're in the car riding back from a procedure
Speaker 3: with someone that you're caring for. It's just a friend
Speaker 3: talking about their life. And the other great thing about
Speaker 3: it is it's a docu podcast, so just like a
Speaker 3: documentary shows people moving and doing their life as they're
Speaker 3: talking about their life. When you listen to Squeeze, you
Speaker 3: hear their life. We send a team to their house
Speaker 3: or to their job, and you hear their kids playing
Speaker 3: in the background, or you hear them having a conversation
Speaker 3: with their parent who has Alzheimer's, and then I then
Speaker 3: talk to them about the experience of that life.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that idea. Yeah, I think it's really.
Speaker 2: Meeting them where they are. Yes. Yes, so many people
Speaker 2: are dealing with what would you say to somebody who's
Speaker 2: just starting this journey like they've just my Like I'm
Speaker 2: in the boat.
Speaker 1: My mom has.
Speaker 2: Been living with my sister and that has reached a
Speaker 2: point where it's probably no longer better good for either
Speaker 2: of them, and it's time for someone else. And that
Speaker 2: someone else is going to end up being me and
Speaker 2: my family to step up and take care of my mom.
Speaker 2: And in order to do that, I'm probably going to
Speaker 2: have to move her to where I live, where I work,
Speaker 2: and that's going to be really upsetting to her and
Speaker 2: she's not going to want to do it.
Speaker 3: Let me ask you this, she does she have Alzheimer's
Speaker 3: or is she dementia?
Speaker 1: What is her If you can come here.
Speaker 2: Early onset a lot of confusion.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so now is the time. This is when
Speaker 3: it rubber meets the world. The first thing you have
Speaker 3: to do is get a durable power of attorney and
Speaker 3: a medical You need to be a medical it's essentially
Speaker 3: a medical advocate, but you need to have the proxy
Speaker 3: to be able to make medical decisions for her. It
Speaker 3: is important for you to get these two things now
Speaker 3: because once she is fully down the dementia road, she
Speaker 3: won't be able to sign things. So you need to
Speaker 3: drab something and you explain to her and say, Mom,
Speaker 3: this is only in place should something happen to you.
Speaker 3: If there's ever a place where, a time where you
Speaker 3: can no longer make these decisions, I will be able
Speaker 3: to make them for you. And it doesn't have to
Speaker 3: be just you. It could be you and your sister
Speaker 3: on the form. But you have to get a durable
Speaker 3: power of attorney sooner than later. That's first.
Speaker 2: What if you're met with resistance. I mean I'm not,
Speaker 2: but what if someone out there listening is like, they
Speaker 2: won't sign it, they don't want to talk about it,
Speaker 2: they won't deal.
Speaker 3: You have to make it very clear and you have
Speaker 3: to There's a lot of ways to do it. You
Speaker 3: could put on a movie with someone dealing with the
Speaker 3: health issue, and as they're making a tough decision, you
Speaker 3: can say, gosh, mom, that's really horrible what Janey has
Speaker 3: to go through in the movie. How would you handle it?
Speaker 3: And then here I firs say well, I make sure
Speaker 3: that they sign it and go okay. Well, then you
Speaker 3: understand that it's important. And you could even say this
Speaker 3: to her, mom, I want you to sign one for me,
Speaker 3: and I'll sign one for you. So we'll do dual
Speaker 3: things so that if something happens to me, I can
Speaker 3: you can step in for me, and if something happens
Speaker 3: for you, I can step in for you. This is
Speaker 3: something we're doing as a family to make sure everybody
Speaker 3: can take care of each other. The other thing you
Speaker 3: need to do is you need to make sure that
Speaker 3: you're on at least one bank account with them, because
Speaker 3: if something happens in the dementia space Alzheimer's space and
Speaker 3: you need to write checks for them, or you need
Speaker 3: to deposit checks for them, you need to be on
Speaker 3: the account to be able to do that. So those
Speaker 3: are my three things. The health proxy, durable power of
Speaker 3: attorney and make sure you're on at least one bank
Speaker 3: account with them so that you can.
Speaker 2: Take in our situation, my sister is going to handle that,
Speaker 2: the financial part of it because that's not my area.
Speaker 2: That's okase and yes, yes, know your strengths for sure,
Speaker 2: and it's just for us. It's going to be a
Speaker 2: matter of like getting her to move from her little
Speaker 2: house into my crazy house, little crazy house and feel
Speaker 2: comfortable and you know, sort of redefining her moving forward life.
Speaker 3: You know, it is going to be, like I said,
Speaker 3: the best tough thing, the toughest best thing is going
Speaker 3: to be very hard. I'm not gonna lie, but there
Speaker 3: are going to be moments that are so rewarding. And
Speaker 3: what you need to remember is that everything that you
Speaker 3: are going to be doing for her, she did for you.
Speaker 3: You know, I say about my dad all the time.
Speaker 3: He taught me how to use a spoon, so it
Speaker 3: is my pleasure to use that spoon to feed him.
Speaker 2: There, m.
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Speaker 2: I know in the beginning you had him with you,
Speaker 2: you were full time taking care of you and a
Speaker 2: half years.
Speaker 1: Eleven and a half years.
Speaker 2: How did you deal with the grind and the frustration
Speaker 2: and just the exhaustion.
Speaker 3: It's a lot. I thankfully for the first I would
Speaker 3: say seven or eight of those years, my mom was
Speaker 3: still here. And my mom was great, and she was
Speaker 3: so happy to get to be with her first love,
Speaker 3: and you know, she was so happy to help me
Speaker 3: with him. So that made if I had to travel
Speaker 3: out of town for work or whatever, that made it
Speaker 3: easy because she would just move into my house and
Speaker 3: care for my dad. He got harder once she passed,
Speaker 3: of course, because then it was fully on me all
Speaker 3: the time. And that's when I got a social worker
Speaker 3: and got caregivers and started to bring people into the
Speaker 3: house to be with him when I couldn't be with him.
Speaker 3: And then he had the fall a year ago and
Speaker 3: no longer walks, and then that where that was where
Speaker 3: I had to decide, either I'm going to completely leave acting,
Speaker 3: get certified as a nurse or a caregiver and learn
Speaker 3: how to use all the equipment and how to do
Speaker 3: all the things, and a social worker. My social worker
Speaker 3: was a girl like, that's beautiful, but you're really doing
Speaker 3: the most because you're able to take care of your
Speaker 3: dad primarily because you work. And if you stop working,
Speaker 3: who's going to pay for all the things that he needs.
Speaker 3: You have to work, so we have to now find
Speaker 3: someone that will care for your dad at the level
Speaker 3: you would care for your dad, and they exist. So
Speaker 3: let's just use that energy. Instead of going to school
Speaker 3: to learn how to do a lift and change diapers
Speaker 3: and all those things, how about we just find someone
Speaker 3: that already knows how to do it, and you can
Speaker 3: just lovingly be his daughter in this season of his
Speaker 3: care And so.
Speaker 1: Hard, Oh oh, it's so hard. It's still hard.
Speaker 3: You know, the hardest thing for me now, and this
Speaker 3: is selfishness, is that his connection with Lala, his caregiver,
Speaker 3: is the strongest connection in his life because she sees
Speaker 3: him twenty four hours a day, and so I have
Speaker 3: to be okay with him deferring to La La when
Speaker 3: I'm there in the same way he used to cling
Speaker 3: to me. He now clings to La La. But I
Speaker 3: want him to cling to La La because she's this
Speaker 3: person twenty four hours a day. So I had to
Speaker 3: just be like, girl, you better be okay with daddy
Speaker 3: being okay with somebody else. And that was the journey
Speaker 3: because I wanted to still be his everything.
Speaker 2: How did you said you found a social worker? Yeah,
Speaker 2: how do you find a social worker?
Speaker 3: There's so many different ways now I am very involved
Speaker 3: with Motion Picture Television Fund, which is our entertainment industry,
Speaker 3: one of our biggest safety nets, if not the biggest
Speaker 3: safety net. We have guilths right in our field, and
Speaker 3: so they have a great arm with social workers and
Speaker 3: even memory care centers and the campus up there is amazing.
Speaker 3: So through them I found my social worker, and my
Speaker 3: social worker connected me with a palliative care team and
Speaker 3: hospice team and all the things, and then they also
Speaker 3: connected me with agencies that help you find caregivers. Now
Speaker 3: there's a place called a Place for a Place for Mom.
Speaker 3: That's amazing. They help you in the same way. Lisa
Speaker 3: Gibbons has done amazing things in the caregiving space. She's great.
Speaker 3: There's an organization called Carrying Across Generations which is led
Speaker 3: by a wonderful woman named Igen who that's also another resource.
Speaker 3: There's also a week Care Out Loud that's another caregiving arm.
Speaker 3: The Creative Coalition i also work with. They have a
Speaker 3: caregiving coalition. So there are so many Now I feel
Speaker 3: like the caregiving space is being blown wide open because
Speaker 3: more people are talking about it, and it's more more
Speaker 3: people are aware that it's coming for you and The
Speaker 3: other thing about Squeezed, the podcast I do, is that
Speaker 3: it talks about the people that are in the middle.
Speaker 3: They're taking care of a parent and raising kids, they're
Speaker 3: taking care of their aunt and taking care of their dad.
Speaker 3: Like they're squeezed in between caring for two different.
Speaker 2: Or even you, you have your dad and you have
Speaker 2: this new man, this relationship that's squeezed.
Speaker 1: Important to you. You're squeezed and squeezed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to see how easy, I didn't include myself. That's
Speaker 3: what caregivers do. They don't include themselves in the work
Speaker 3: that they're doing. And you know, caregivers aren't compensated, especially
Speaker 3: if you're a home caregiver. There's no paycheck for twenty
Speaker 3: four hours a day taking care of your kids or
Speaker 3: your father or your So there's a lot of stuff
Speaker 3: that could be helped federally too, to make this an
Speaker 3: easier road for all of us, since it's something that
Speaker 3: all of us will do, will be a caregiver or
Speaker 3: a caregivy. That's the way it goes.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: Have you seen like common first mistakes mistakes of people
Speaker 2: that are just getting into it.
Speaker 3: I think the fear of bringing the loved one in
Speaker 3: the home is the thing I see the most. Most
Speaker 3: people immediately start thinking of I got to find a home,
Speaker 3: and you may ultimately it might be better, ultimately for
Speaker 3: your loved one to be in a home. That depends
Speaker 3: on their prognosis and your relationship with them, the type
Speaker 3: of space you have for them. All of those things
Speaker 3: will affect that. But I think it's always easier to
Speaker 3: start with them with you, especially if they're not too
Speaker 3: far gone where you can care for them. It's also
Speaker 3: I think people forget it's more time with the person
Speaker 3: that you love. Yeah, and sometimes you know it's not
Speaker 3: a good mix. You know, the personalities are not a
Speaker 3: good fix, and you'll figure that out too. But if
Speaker 3: you can do it, if you guys can get over
Speaker 3: your stuff and you can cohabitate, bring your person in
Speaker 3: the house and take care of them as long as you.
Speaker 2: Can, and then how about when? Because this will usually
Speaker 2: be the case for people there have other people in
Speaker 2: their lives, Like I have a full house with an
Speaker 2: adult daughter, a people coming in and out all the time,
Speaker 2: and my husband. Yeah, and my house is very small,
Speaker 2: and I'm really considering moving my mom in, and I'm
Speaker 2: I'm worried.
Speaker 3: I will say this, small homes have held more people,
Speaker 3: so that you got to remember, there's some people six seven, eight, nine,
Speaker 3: ten deep in a small home.
Speaker 1: So that's the first thing.
Speaker 3: Second you bring her in, you see how it goes.
Speaker 3: If it doesn't work for your family or for her,
Speaker 3: then you move to finding the next level. If that
Speaker 3: is we get a bigger house, or if that is
Speaker 3: the garage that converted into a studio, I'm now going
Speaker 3: to turn it into an adu so my adult daughter
Speaker 3: has her own space, or I move my mom in there,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like, you just adjust as
Speaker 3: things need to be adjusted. But until she gets there,
Speaker 3: we don't know. This might end up being the best thing. Ever,
Speaker 3: she might end up taking up doing things that other
Speaker 3: people don't want to do, or she might end up
Speaker 3: lightning the load in a way you can't even imagine
Speaker 3: right now. And more than that, you get to have
Speaker 3: more time with your mother and your and your daughter
Speaker 3: gets to have more time with her grandmother at a
Speaker 3: time when your mom needs that connection. She may not
Speaker 3: say it, she may not know it, but what she's
Speaker 3: about to face she needs you, guys, and what you're
Speaker 3: about to face with her, you're gonna want to make
Speaker 3: as many memories as you can. Yeah, So it's I know, baby,
Speaker 3: I know. If this is some heavy shit, I know,
Speaker 3: but I'm gonna tell you this. You can do it.
Speaker 3: I do know this, and you will do it as
Speaker 3: long as you can do it, and then you will
Speaker 3: adjust when you need to adjust. Yeah, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 3: you can do it though.
Speaker 1: I appromi and bite sized pieces.
Speaker 3: And I'm here listen. The good thing is you gotta
Speaker 3: you got somebody that didn't did it? Oh, I'm here.
Speaker 3: Any question you have if you're feeling like ah. And also,
Speaker 3: you know, be honest with your friends too, and say
Speaker 3: somebody need to come over here and sit with mama
Speaker 3: for a hour. I need a break, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, And be honest about it, and be honest,
Speaker 3: you know, with her as much as you can as
Speaker 3: long as you there and go my money. Then I'm
Speaker 3: gonna take a little bak. I'm gonna go take a
Speaker 3: walk around the block for a minute, you know. And
Speaker 3: they understand, they understand more than you think they understand.
Speaker 3: And remember this, she's scared. Yeah, you know, she's she
Speaker 3: may not know fully what she's facing, and you guys
Speaker 3: may not know yet either. But she literally is. She
Speaker 3: knows that she's forgetting things, she knows that something's not right,
Speaker 3: and she's scared. And so you got to remember that
Speaker 3: you're dealing with someone whose life is changing in seismic
Speaker 3: ways that they don't understand. So their behavior is tied
Speaker 3: to their confusion and fear a lot of times, and
Speaker 3: it's always a season that whatever she's doing right now,
Speaker 3: she ain't gonna do forever. She's gonna move on and
Speaker 3: do something else.
Speaker 1: That's what they do.
Speaker 3: I don't get attached to nothing I get from my dad.
Speaker 3: But all right, we're doing this today. Okay, the borrow
Speaker 3: will be something else, you know. Yeah, but you can
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 2: It's just so hard, I think. I know a lot
Speaker 2: of people can relate to your journey and to the
Speaker 2: one that I'm about to go on, and how it
Speaker 2: just pulls out all your emotions sometimes.
Speaker 3: And it's also it's a reminder of the passage of.
Speaker 1: Time, you know, And that's fucking scary.
Speaker 3: That's scary, man, because listen, these are the people your mom, my, dad,
Speaker 3: They were our heroes. They were the ones that could
Speaker 3: slay dragons.
Speaker 1: They did all the things, they did all.
Speaker 3: The things, and what do you mean, I got to
Speaker 3: take care of the person that took care of me.
Speaker 3: They know how to take It's a seismic shift, and
Speaker 3: it's and it reminds us of our own mortality because
Speaker 3: if our moms are getting older and passing away, and
Speaker 3: our dads are getting older and passing away, guess who
Speaker 3: got next? And nobody wants to deal with that. It's
Speaker 3: all the emotions. This is what it is, you know,
Speaker 3: but but it's it's okay. It really is okay, and
Speaker 3: you can do it.
Speaker 1: You can do it well.
Speaker 2: Help other people listening right now feel empowered by your
Speaker 2: encouragement because it helps. It helps to have somebody that's
Speaker 2: done it, that knows the real deal and can and
Speaker 2: just kind of talk you off the ledge sometimes or
Speaker 2: I'm here for you. Thank you, and thank you for
Speaker 2: sharing this passion that you have. Where I was sharing
Speaker 2: this information with people, it's so important.
Speaker 3: It really is.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you,