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Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to I Choose Me, the podcast about the

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Speaker 2: choices we make, and you know what, many of us

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Speaker 2: are in the Sandwich generation, facing those tough choices with

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Speaker 2: and for our aging parents. My guest, I Vet Nicole Brown,

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Speaker 2: has made it her mission to support caregivers. In this

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Speaker 2: bonus episode, she shares encouragement and practical tips for me

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Speaker 2: and for you. Here's more of our conversation. So, Nicole,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to talk to you a little bit more

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Speaker 2: about something that I know.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, Sorry, people do it all the time.

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Speaker 3: Let's leave this in because I.

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Speaker 1: Made your nickname is Vet Nicole.

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Speaker 3: Right, But no, now I need to point this out.

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Speaker 3: Leave this in because I get called Nicole all the time,

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Speaker 3: and I really want to talk to a linguist or

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Speaker 3: someone that understands words or names, because I think it's

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Speaker 3: because Yvett is not a strong I think Nicole is

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Speaker 3: a stronger name.

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Speaker 2: It comes out first, like it's more naturally.

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Speaker 3: Come. Yeah, they hear Vet Nicole bron I'll go, what's

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Speaker 3: your name is Vetnicole Brown? They go hind and Cole.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, So it's interesting. I think Yvett just

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Speaker 3: doesn't have the punch that Nicole has. And I'm telling you, cousins,

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Speaker 3: relatives of mine have called me Nicole.

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Speaker 1: It's easy to do if you have a double name exactly.

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Speaker 3: So I want to make sure. I want you to

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Speaker 3: leave it in because I do want someone to tell

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Speaker 3: me why it happens if anybody knows help my name.

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Speaker 3: So it's not you know, it's hard for me.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, I have to think that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let me ask you this. Do you think it's

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Speaker 3: also because of Nicole Brown Simpson?

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Speaker 1: Sure? Yeah, right, So you hear Vet Nicole.

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Speaker 3: Brown and you think Brown Simpson, and you say Nicole.

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Speaker 1: I didn't go to Simpson. I went to Nicole Brown.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I have theories. I have theories about it, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: go ahead.

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Speaker 1: So what you want to say.

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Speaker 2: I just want to talk about caregiving because caregiving is

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Speaker 2: something that all of us are most likely going to

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Speaker 2: have to look at at some point in our lives,

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean it can feel really like the

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Speaker 2: opposite of choosing yourself when this comes down your driveway. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and there are so many like pamphlets and books and

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Speaker 2: discussions about how to be a good parent, But what

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Speaker 2: about how to be a parent to your parent?

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Speaker 1: Basically?

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Speaker 3: How about that?

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Speaker 1: But who knew that was coming.

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Speaker 3: I always joke that there's no book on caregiving, but

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Speaker 3: I realized that there probably are, we just don't have

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Speaker 3: time to read it. So it's it's caregiving is I

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Speaker 3: always say it's the best tough thing I've ever done,

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Speaker 3: or the toughest best thing I've ever done, and it is.

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Speaker 3: It seems like it's not, and I choose me moment,

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Speaker 3: but I realize that it is because in choosing a

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Speaker 3: care for my dad, it was me planning a flag

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Speaker 3: in the space of knowing that I am a loving,

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Speaker 3: sacrificially loving person. It confirmed to me that it wasn't

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Speaker 3: just talk that if Robert meets the road, I am

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Speaker 3: going to show up for the people that made me.

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Speaker 3: And that was a wonderful thing to realize one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent about myself. And the reason I talk about it

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Speaker 3: so much is I want other people to know that

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Speaker 3: I'm not special, I'm not a hero. There's nothing magical

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Speaker 3: about me. This is something that everyone can do. Caregiving

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Speaker 3: is something that before we leave here, everyone will either

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Speaker 3: be a caregiver or a caregiving that's statistics. At some point,

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Speaker 3: you will care for another person or someone will care

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Speaker 3: for you. Now, for some people, that's being a parent

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Speaker 3: your kids. They don't call parents caregivers, but that's what

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Speaker 3: you're doing. And caregiving is just love. It's just extending

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Speaker 3: love to someone other than yourself, and so we all

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Speaker 3: do that. Caregiving could be sending your aunt Instacart groceries

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Speaker 3: across a couple of states. It could be giving your land,

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Speaker 3: your neighbor, or a ride to the hospital and back

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Speaker 3: when they have to have a procedure. That is caregiving.

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Speaker 3: It's just loving another person, and we all are equipped

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Speaker 3: to do it. I tried to with Squeezed and with

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Speaker 3: everything else I do in the caregiving space, I tried

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Speaker 3: to demystify it.

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Speaker 1: I talked about Squeezed.

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Speaker 2: You have a podcast that talks specifically about caregiving.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so Squeezed. We're in our second year with Lemonata Media,

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Speaker 3: which I'm really happy to be working with them. It's

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Speaker 3: a podcast about caregiving from every area, from people that

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Speaker 3: care for their parents, willingly, from people who care for

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Speaker 3: family members that they don't have a relationship with. We

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Speaker 3: talked to the Secretary of Health and Human services last

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Speaker 3: year Javier Basera, which was great. We talked to a

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Speaker 3: death doula, so we talked about caregiving and what happens

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Speaker 3: when the person that you're caring for or another loved

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Speaker 3: one passes away. How do you deal with that. We've

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Speaker 3: talked to teachers, We've talked to parents. We talked to

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Speaker 3: Seth and Laura Miller Rogan this year about Hilarity for Charity,

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Speaker 3: this amazing organization they have that helps in the Alzheimer's space.

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Speaker 3: So we've talked to I don't know how many people,

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Speaker 3: and we've hit it from every direction. And the goal

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Speaker 3: of Squeezed is for the caregivers who are in the

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Speaker 3: journey to have a friend and a respite in the midst.

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Speaker 3: It's the kind of podcast you can turn on while

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Speaker 3: you're sitting with the person you care for, while you're

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Speaker 3: making dinner for the person that you're caring for, or

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Speaker 3: while you're in the car riding back from a procedure

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Speaker 3: with someone that you're caring for. It's just a friend

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Speaker 3: talking about their life. And the other great thing about

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Speaker 3: it is it's a docu podcast, so just like a

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Speaker 3: documentary shows people moving and doing their life as they're

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Speaker 3: talking about their life. When you listen to Squeeze, you

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Speaker 3: hear their life. We send a team to their house

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Speaker 3: or to their job, and you hear their kids playing

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Speaker 3: in the background, or you hear them having a conversation

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Speaker 3: with their parent who has Alzheimer's, and then I then

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Speaker 3: talk to them about the experience of that life.

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Speaker 1: That's great.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that idea. Yeah, I think it's really.

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Speaker 2: Meeting them where they are. Yes. Yes, so many people

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Speaker 2: are dealing with what would you say to somebody who's

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Speaker 2: just starting this journey like they've just my Like I'm

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Speaker 2: in the boat.

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Speaker 1: My mom has.

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Speaker 2: Been living with my sister and that has reached a

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Speaker 2: point where it's probably no longer better good for either

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Speaker 2: of them, and it's time for someone else. And that

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Speaker 2: someone else is going to end up being me and

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Speaker 2: my family to step up and take care of my mom.

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Speaker 2: And in order to do that, I'm probably going to

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Speaker 2: have to move her to where I live, where I work,

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Speaker 2: and that's going to be really upsetting to her and

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Speaker 2: she's not going to want to do it.

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Speaker 3: Let me ask you this, she does she have Alzheimer's

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Speaker 3: or is she dementia?

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Speaker 1: What is her If you can come here.

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Speaker 2: Early onset a lot of confusion.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so now is the time. This is when

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Speaker 3: it rubber meets the world. The first thing you have

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Speaker 3: to do is get a durable power of attorney and

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Speaker 3: a medical You need to be a medical it's essentially

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Speaker 3: a medical advocate, but you need to have the proxy

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Speaker 3: to be able to make medical decisions for her. It

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Speaker 3: is important for you to get these two things now

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Speaker 3: because once she is fully down the dementia road, she

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Speaker 3: won't be able to sign things. So you need to

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Speaker 3: drab something and you explain to her and say, Mom,

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Speaker 3: this is only in place should something happen to you.

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Speaker 3: If there's ever a place where, a time where you

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Speaker 3: can no longer make these decisions, I will be able

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Speaker 3: to make them for you. And it doesn't have to

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Speaker 3: be just you. It could be you and your sister

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Speaker 3: on the form. But you have to get a durable

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Speaker 3: power of attorney sooner than later. That's first.

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Speaker 2: What if you're met with resistance. I mean I'm not,

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Speaker 2: but what if someone out there listening is like, they

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Speaker 2: won't sign it, they don't want to talk about it,

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Speaker 2: they won't deal.

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Speaker 3: You have to make it very clear and you have

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Speaker 3: to There's a lot of ways to do it. You

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Speaker 3: could put on a movie with someone dealing with the

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Speaker 3: health issue, and as they're making a tough decision, you

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Speaker 3: can say, gosh, mom, that's really horrible what Janey has

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Speaker 3: to go through in the movie. How would you handle it?

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Speaker 3: And then here I firs say well, I make sure

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Speaker 3: that they sign it and go okay. Well, then you

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Speaker 3: understand that it's important. And you could even say this

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Speaker 3: to her, mom, I want you to sign one for me,

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Speaker 3: and I'll sign one for you. So we'll do dual

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Speaker 3: things so that if something happens to me, I can

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Speaker 3: you can step in for me, and if something happens

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Speaker 3: for you, I can step in for you. This is

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Speaker 3: something we're doing as a family to make sure everybody

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Speaker 3: can take care of each other. The other thing you

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Speaker 3: need to do is you need to make sure that

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Speaker 3: you're on at least one bank account with them, because

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Speaker 3: if something happens in the dementia space Alzheimer's space and

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Speaker 3: you need to write checks for them, or you need

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Speaker 3: to deposit checks for them, you need to be on

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Speaker 3: the account to be able to do that. So those

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Speaker 3: are my three things. The health proxy, durable power of

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Speaker 3: attorney and make sure you're on at least one bank

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Speaker 3: account with them so that you can.

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Speaker 2: Take in our situation, my sister is going to handle that,

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Speaker 2: the financial part of it because that's not my area.

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Speaker 2: That's okase and yes, yes, know your strengths for sure,

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Speaker 2: and it's just for us. It's going to be a

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Speaker 2: matter of like getting her to move from her little

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Speaker 2: house into my crazy house, little crazy house and feel

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Speaker 2: comfortable and you know, sort of redefining her moving forward life.

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Speaker 3: You know, it is going to be, like I said,

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Speaker 3: the best tough thing, the toughest best thing is going

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Speaker 3: to be very hard. I'm not gonna lie, but there

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Speaker 3: are going to be moments that are so rewarding. And

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Speaker 3: what you need to remember is that everything that you

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Speaker 3: are going to be doing for her, she did for you.

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Speaker 3: You know, I say about my dad all the time.

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Speaker 3: He taught me how to use a spoon, so it

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Speaker 3: is my pleasure to use that spoon to feed him.

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Speaker 2: There, m.

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Speaker 2: I know in the beginning you had him with you,

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Speaker 2: you were full time taking care of you and a

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Speaker 2: half years.

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Speaker 1: Eleven and a half years.

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Speaker 2: How did you deal with the grind and the frustration

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Speaker 2: and just the exhaustion.

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Speaker 3: It's a lot. I thankfully for the first I would

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Speaker 3: say seven or eight of those years, my mom was

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Speaker 3: still here. And my mom was great, and she was

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Speaker 3: so happy to get to be with her first love,

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Speaker 3: and you know, she was so happy to help me

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Speaker 3: with him. So that made if I had to travel

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Speaker 3: out of town for work or whatever, that made it

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Speaker 3: easy because she would just move into my house and

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Speaker 3: care for my dad. He got harder once she passed,

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Speaker 3: of course, because then it was fully on me all

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Speaker 3: the time. And that's when I got a social worker

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Speaker 3: and got caregivers and started to bring people into the

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Speaker 3: house to be with him when I couldn't be with him.

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Speaker 3: And then he had the fall a year ago and

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Speaker 3: no longer walks, and then that where that was where

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Speaker 3: I had to decide, either I'm going to completely leave acting,

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Speaker 3: get certified as a nurse or a caregiver and learn

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Speaker 3: how to use all the equipment and how to do

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Speaker 3: all the things, and a social worker. My social worker

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Speaker 3: was a girl like, that's beautiful, but you're really doing

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Speaker 3: the most because you're able to take care of your

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Speaker 3: dad primarily because you work. And if you stop working,

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Speaker 3: who's going to pay for all the things that he needs.

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Speaker 3: You have to work, so we have to now find

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Speaker 3: someone that will care for your dad at the level

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Speaker 3: you would care for your dad, and they exist. So

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Speaker 3: let's just use that energy. Instead of going to school

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Speaker 3: to learn how to do a lift and change diapers

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Speaker 3: and all those things, how about we just find someone

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Speaker 3: that already knows how to do it, and you can

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Speaker 3: just lovingly be his daughter in this season of his

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Speaker 3: care And so.

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Speaker 1: Hard, Oh oh, it's so hard. It's still hard.

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Speaker 3: You know, the hardest thing for me now, and this

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Speaker 3: is selfishness, is that his connection with Lala, his caregiver,

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Speaker 3: is the strongest connection in his life because she sees

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Speaker 3: him twenty four hours a day, and so I have

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Speaker 3: to be okay with him deferring to La La when

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Speaker 3: I'm there in the same way he used to cling

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Speaker 3: to me. He now clings to La La. But I

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Speaker 3: want him to cling to La La because she's this

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Speaker 3: person twenty four hours a day. So I had to

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Speaker 3: just be like, girl, you better be okay with daddy

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Speaker 3: being okay with somebody else. And that was the journey

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Speaker 3: because I wanted to still be his everything.

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Speaker 2: How did you said you found a social worker? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: how do you find a social worker?

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Speaker 3: There's so many different ways now I am very involved

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Speaker 3: with Motion Picture Television Fund, which is our entertainment industry,

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Speaker 3: one of our biggest safety nets, if not the biggest

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Speaker 3: safety net. We have guilths right in our field, and

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Speaker 3: so they have a great arm with social workers and

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Speaker 3: even memory care centers and the campus up there is amazing.

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Speaker 3: So through them I found my social worker, and my

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Speaker 3: social worker connected me with a palliative care team and

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Speaker 3: hospice team and all the things, and then they also

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Speaker 3: connected me with agencies that help you find caregivers. Now

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Speaker 3: there's a place called a Place for a Place for Mom.

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Speaker 3: That's amazing. They help you in the same way. Lisa

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Speaker 3: Gibbons has done amazing things in the caregiving space. She's great.

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Speaker 3: There's an organization called Carrying Across Generations which is led

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Speaker 3: by a wonderful woman named Igen who that's also another resource.

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Speaker 3: There's also a week Care Out Loud that's another caregiving arm.

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Speaker 3: The Creative Coalition i also work with. They have a

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Speaker 3: caregiving coalition. So there are so many Now I feel

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Speaker 3: like the caregiving space is being blown wide open because

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Speaker 3: more people are talking about it, and it's more more

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Speaker 3: people are aware that it's coming for you and The

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Speaker 3: other thing about Squeezed, the podcast I do, is that

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Speaker 3: it talks about the people that are in the middle.

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Speaker 3: They're taking care of a parent and raising kids, they're

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Speaker 3: taking care of their aunt and taking care of their dad.

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Speaker 3: Like they're squeezed in between caring for two different.

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Speaker 2: Or even you, you have your dad and you have

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Speaker 2: this new man, this relationship that's squeezed.

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Speaker 1: Important to you. You're squeezed and squeezed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to see how easy, I didn't include myself. That's

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Speaker 3: what caregivers do. They don't include themselves in the work

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Speaker 3: that they're doing. And you know, caregivers aren't compensated, especially

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Speaker 3: if you're a home caregiver. There's no paycheck for twenty

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Speaker 3: four hours a day taking care of your kids or

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Speaker 3: your father or your So there's a lot of stuff

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Speaker 3: that could be helped federally too, to make this an

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Speaker 3: easier road for all of us, since it's something that

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Speaker 3: all of us will do, will be a caregiver or

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Speaker 3: a caregivy. That's the way it goes.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: Have you seen like common first mistakes mistakes of people

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Speaker 2: that are just getting into it.

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Speaker 3: I think the fear of bringing the loved one in

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Speaker 3: the home is the thing I see the most. Most

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Speaker 3: people immediately start thinking of I got to find a home,

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Speaker 3: and you may ultimately it might be better, ultimately for

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Speaker 3: your loved one to be in a home. That depends

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Speaker 3: on their prognosis and your relationship with them, the type

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Speaker 3: of space you have for them. All of those things

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Speaker 3: will affect that. But I think it's always easier to

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Speaker 3: start with them with you, especially if they're not too

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Speaker 3: far gone where you can care for them. It's also

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Speaker 3: I think people forget it's more time with the person

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Speaker 3: that you love. Yeah, and sometimes you know it's not

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Speaker 3: a good mix. You know, the personalities are not a

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Speaker 3: good fix, and you'll figure that out too. But if

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Speaker 3: you can do it, if you guys can get over

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Speaker 3: your stuff and you can cohabitate, bring your person in

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Speaker 3: the house and take care of them as long as you.

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Speaker 2: Can, and then how about when? Because this will usually

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Speaker 2: be the case for people there have other people in

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Speaker 2: their lives, Like I have a full house with an

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Speaker 2: adult daughter, a people coming in and out all the time,

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Speaker 2: and my husband. Yeah, and my house is very small,

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Speaker 2: and I'm really considering moving my mom in, and I'm

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Speaker 2: I'm worried.

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Speaker 3: I will say this, small homes have held more people,

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Speaker 3: so that you got to remember, there's some people six seven, eight, nine,

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Speaker 3: ten deep in a small home.

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Speaker 1: So that's the first thing.

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Speaker 3: Second you bring her in, you see how it goes.

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Speaker 3: If it doesn't work for your family or for her,

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Speaker 3: then you move to finding the next level. If that

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Speaker 3: is we get a bigger house, or if that is

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Speaker 3: the garage that converted into a studio, I'm now going

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Speaker 3: to turn it into an adu so my adult daughter

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Speaker 3: has her own space, or I move my mom in there,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like, you just adjust as

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Speaker 3: things need to be adjusted. But until she gets there,

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Speaker 3: we don't know. This might end up being the best thing. Ever,

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Speaker 3: she might end up taking up doing things that other

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Speaker 3: people don't want to do, or she might end up

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Speaker 3: lightning the load in a way you can't even imagine

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Speaker 3: right now. And more than that, you get to have

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Speaker 3: more time with your mother and your and your daughter

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Speaker 3: gets to have more time with her grandmother at a

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Speaker 3: time when your mom needs that connection. She may not

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Speaker 3: say it, she may not know it, but what she's

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Speaker 3: about to face she needs you, guys, and what you're

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Speaker 3: about to face with her, you're gonna want to make

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Speaker 3: as many memories as you can. Yeah, So it's I know, baby,

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Speaker 3: I know. If this is some heavy shit, I know,

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Speaker 3: but I'm gonna tell you this. You can do it.

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Speaker 3: I do know this, and you will do it as

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Speaker 3: long as you can do it, and then you will

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Speaker 3: adjust when you need to adjust. Yeah, you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you can do it though.

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Speaker 1: I appromi and bite sized pieces.

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Speaker 3: And I'm here listen. The good thing is you gotta

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Speaker 3: you got somebody that didn't did it? Oh, I'm here.

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Speaker 3: Any question you have if you're feeling like ah. And also,

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Speaker 3: you know, be honest with your friends too, and say

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Speaker 3: somebody need to come over here and sit with mama

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Speaker 3: for a hour. I need a break, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean, And be honest about it, and be honest,

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Speaker 3: you know, with her as much as you can as

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Speaker 3: long as you there and go my money. Then I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna take a little bak. I'm gonna go take a

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Speaker 3: walk around the block for a minute, you know. And

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Speaker 3: they understand, they understand more than you think they understand.

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Speaker 3: And remember this, she's scared. Yeah, you know, she's she

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Speaker 3: may not know fully what she's facing, and you guys

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Speaker 3: may not know yet either. But she literally is. She

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Speaker 3: knows that she's forgetting things, she knows that something's not right,

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Speaker 3: and she's scared. And so you got to remember that

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Speaker 3: you're dealing with someone whose life is changing in seismic

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Speaker 3: ways that they don't understand. So their behavior is tied

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Speaker 3: to their confusion and fear a lot of times, and

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Speaker 3: it's always a season that whatever she's doing right now,

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Speaker 3: she ain't gonna do forever. She's gonna move on and

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Speaker 3: do something else.

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Speaker 1: That's what they do.

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Speaker 3: I don't get attached to nothing I get from my dad.

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Speaker 3: But all right, we're doing this today. Okay, the borrow

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Speaker 3: will be something else, you know. Yeah, but you can

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 2: It's just so hard, I think. I know a lot

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Speaker 2: of people can relate to your journey and to the

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Speaker 2: one that I'm about to go on, and how it

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Speaker 2: just pulls out all your emotions sometimes.

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Speaker 3: And it's also it's a reminder of the passage of.

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Speaker 1: Time, you know, And that's fucking scary.

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Speaker 3: That's scary, man, because listen, these are the people your mom, my, dad,

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Speaker 3: They were our heroes. They were the ones that could

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Speaker 3: slay dragons.

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Speaker 1: They did all the things, they did all.

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Speaker 3: The things, and what do you mean, I got to

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Speaker 3: take care of the person that took care of me.

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Speaker 3: They know how to take It's a seismic shift, and

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Speaker 3: it's and it reminds us of our own mortality because

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Speaker 3: if our moms are getting older and passing away, and

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Speaker 3: our dads are getting older and passing away, guess who

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Speaker 3: got next? And nobody wants to deal with that. It's

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Speaker 3: all the emotions. This is what it is, you know,

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Speaker 3: but but it's it's okay. It really is okay, and

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Speaker 3: you can do it.

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Speaker 1: You can do it well.

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Speaker 2: Help other people listening right now feel empowered by your

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Speaker 2: encouragement because it helps. It helps to have somebody that's

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Speaker 2: done it, that knows the real deal and can and

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Speaker 2: just kind of talk you off the ledge sometimes or

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Speaker 2: I'm here for you. Thank you, and thank you for

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Speaker 2: sharing this passion that you have. Where I was sharing

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Speaker 2: this information with people, it's so important.

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Speaker 3: It really is.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you,