WEBVTT - Shipping Security in the Strait of Hormuz 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:05.000 Also media. 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:09.479 Hi everyone, and welcome to it could happen here. 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:12.639 It's me James today and I am very lucky to 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:13.760 join by Garrison. 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:16.840 Hi Ge, Hello, Hi Garrison. 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.680 I've some of you here today to talk about boats, 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:22.720 a topic that white men love. But we're not going 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:24.640 to talk about like going out on the lake and 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.080 looking for bass today. 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:29.600 I've only done bass fishing ones. It's not for me. 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:31.840 Do you hold up the fish for the picture? Do 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:32.600 you do the picture? 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.760 I wasn't blessed with a bass on that trip, but 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:37.680 I did get to It was very interesting because the 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.440 guy had like a purple boat with gold flex in it. 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.440 It didn't represent who I thought he was as a person. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:45.479 Turned out actually he had a boat sponsorship and he 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:47.519 was going to sell it. But ah, it was a 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.240 cool boat. I got to drive that boat pretty fast 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.159 through some doughnuts and stuff. So that's another thing that 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.440 calls to a part of my soul. I want to 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.960 talk about private maritime security today. The reason why I've 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:04.399 course is that Iran is currently attacking boats in the 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:08.720 Strait of Horn Moves and elsewhere. Right there's some boats 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:12.959 were attacked in portant Basara yesterday. We're recording this on Thursday. 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.800 At the time of recording, they have attacked six boats. 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.400 It's more likely than not that there will be more 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.119 boats attacked by the time you are listening to this. 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.920 It's been a really bad week for boat guys. 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.120 It's been a bad year for boats in general. 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:29.160 Oh, Venezuela. 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:33.240 Yeah, yeah, let's talk about private maritime security. 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:35.479 So, like, when these boats are. 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.399 Transmitting the Strait of horn Moves, right, the United States 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.920 has offered and then rescinded the offer to escort them 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.440 through the Straight of Horn Moves. It's very unlikely that 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.720 the United States is going to be able to sufficiently 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.240 escort every boat that goes through the State of Horn Moves. 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:55.280 And this is a longstanding issue, right. I think probably 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.560 lots of listeners won't be aware of the long history 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:03.560 of private security on ships. Right. I'm only going to 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:05.560 talk about this in the context of the twenty first century, 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:06.280 but this goes. 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:06.920 A lot further back. 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.160 It's largely a consequence of the way the law governs 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:15.360 the ocean. It's actually the same wow, sorry, yeah, daddy, 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:15.959 long legs. 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.040 I don't know if it's an American word for that 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:18.640 that I don't. 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:19.560 Know Daddy long legs. 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:24.000 That's okay, Yeah, absolute unit has just entered my office space. 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:28.400 World LM be the reason that we can have private 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.880 security contractors, often with machine guns, etc. On boats, It's 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.320 the same reason that horrific labor abuses are perpetrated on 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:40.160 boats on a daily basis. Right, Perhaps the most well 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.359 documented are among the most well documented are the ones 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:45.760 off Thailand on fishing ships, which often involve Burmese refugees 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.720 or people fleeing me anma right there essentially enslaved on 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.920 these boats or in sort of indentured servitude of trying 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.920 to quote unquote pay off their trip out of the 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.639 country they were fleeing. Right, I'm not talking about labor 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:03.040 abuses today. I want to talk more about private security. 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:07.040 Most of security provided two boats in the world. 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:08.160 In general, it's not. 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:12.040 Provided by states. It is provided by private military contractors. 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:12.320 Right. 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:15.920 Earlier on in the twentieth century, the typical profile of 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:17.600 one of these people would have been that they'd left 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.680 the military in a state in the global north. They 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:24.040 had found let's say, life for employment in the civilian 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.160 world to be difficult for them. And I've met a 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.799 number of these people in a number of places. Many 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:33.359 of them went to parts of Africa thinking that they 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:37.320 were going to work protecting wildlife and then ending up 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.760 protecting large container ships instead, or attempting to work for 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.120 a company that would one day let them protect wildlife 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.000 or something similar. Generally, the companies they end up working 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:52.040 for are generally referred to as private maritime security companies PMSCs, 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:56.080 as opposed to PMC private military contractor, although it is 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.600 a version of the same thing. Generally, these companies offer 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.440 a shipping company a sort of package, and it's not 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:06.119 just armed. Security also include stuff like intelligence, crisis response, 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:10.080 and potential intervention. I spoke to someone, for instance, who 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:12.200 had worked for a shipping company and his major job 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:16.040 was to deal with when people were kidnapped off the boats. 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.200 He would then either go and rescue the people or 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.719 negotiate with the people who would kidnapped them. 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:27.680 These are like cargo ships, oil tankers like what kind of. 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.720 Yeah, so mostly they are on large commercial vessels, right, 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:34.919 cargo ships, oil tankers, things with an expensive cargo, although 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:39.159 it is not unheard of for pmsc's. For instance, you 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:42.080 may have a maritime security company to secure your large 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:42.760 mega yacht. 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.280 Sure, right, or another boat that you're worried about. Did 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:48.279 these happen on my cruise ships? Sometimes? 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.479 Yes, there was a shootout in the early two thousand 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.159 so I shoot out, it's probably private security characters on it. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.360 I think it was an Italian cruise ship fired at 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.640 pirates who are attempting to board cruise ship. 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:01.520 Huh. 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:06.200 It's a lot less uncommon than you would think. 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.240 So when we're planning the twenty twenty eight Cool Zone 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:14.080 Media Cruise all access included, we're going to have to 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:15.599 contact with one of these companies. 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:17.680 I think we can probably bring that in house. I 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.719 think that that would be the goal at that point. 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:26.359 Right within the Greater iHeart Ecosystem Garrison, we have so 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:31.440 many automatic weapons. You don't listen to the like Belfed 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:37.360 Machine Gun podcast, the iHeart Militia. It's US and TED 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.400 cruise and we're we haven't really agreed on very much 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.200 other than gun ownership. Maybe we should talk about when 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:47.279 the real reason like PMSCs took off in the twenty 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:51.880 first century was the rise in piracy of Somalia. Right 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.280 before this piracy had existed, mostly in Southeast Asia. On 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.360 piracy has guested for as long as people going on 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:01.400 boats has existed, right, Let's specifically piracy off Southeast Asia 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.520 had before this been more of a like a smash 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.520 and grab kind of situation, like turn up, take what 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:12.520 you can leave. What was distinct in this piracy that 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.560 we began to see from like two thousand and eight 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:18.640 onwards was that pirates were either trying to see the 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:23.280 entire cargo of a vessel the vessel itself, or to 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:27.200 kidnap people from the vessel and hold them for ransom. 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:32.719 I guess the most high profile case was called the Maskalabama. 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:33.960 Are you familiar with this one? 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:34.560 No? 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:37.640 Okay, this is that's good because you get to hear 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:38.240 a story. 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.120 I don't keep up with piratenews dot org. 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:45.200 Really, I can see you being like pirate curious. No, 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:46.080 you're not interested in. 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.920 I've always had kind of a love hate relationship with pirates, Okay, 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:53.119 you know, undeniably cool in some way, also a little 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:53.680 bit messy. 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:54.760 They can be messy. 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.320 Yeah, yeah, lots of overlap between pirates and anarchism. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:06:59.919 I'm sure you've this is true. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.320 Yeah, some of my same critiques there for you both sides. 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:04.800 Yeah. Yeah, I can also be messy. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.599 As soon as the pirates all start wearing matching black suits, 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:08.800 then we can talk. 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.640 I think that's inherently like the piracy isn't about that. 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:13.080 Piracy is about self expression. 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:14.240 That's the thing, got it. 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:19.360 Yeah, well, yeah, great, disagree. I like a diverse pirate 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:24.280 outfit personally, in this case, a small vessel, right. I 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.840 think they had four or five pirates. 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:27.560 They had like. 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:32.320 Pretty basic weaponry RTE like kalashnikovs. I think they boarded 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:36.360 the mess Galabama. The boat had a pirate alarm, and 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:41.120 they sounded the pirate alarm. In this you have to 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:47.320 struggle to repress your like eighteenth century like mind pallas, right, Yeah. Yeah, 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.680 the crew sheltered in. They had like a safe room. Yeah, 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.200 they went in this safe room. Well, they captured the 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.840 captain of the ship pretty quickly. The ship didn't have 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.120 any means of defending itself other than it tried to, 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.800 like I'm not a massive boat understander, it tried to 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.520 use its rudder to swamp the pirate ship as it 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:09.920 was coming up, so like kind of flick it and 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:13.640 that didn't work. Yeah, And one member of the ship's 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:20.080 crew who hid himself with a knife and successfully subdued 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:24.960 and captured the leader of the pirates and the crew 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:29.160 then attempted to trade this person for their captain. They 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:33.120 tied up the pirate who they had captured attempted to 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:38.000 trade him for their captain. The pirates took the leader 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:39.760 of the pirates and then never gave the crew their 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:43.360 captain and then made off in a lifeboat with a 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.360 large amount of cash and the captain. This resulted in 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.960 a standoff. Now, the Mescalabama was a I believe a 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.920 US flagged ship. It may have been a US Dutch ship, 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:56.680 but it was flagged to like a nation in the 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.440 major in the global north right. This would become relevant later. 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:05.439 The United States sent two boats which proceeded to engage 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.880 in a standoff with the lifeboat for several days, where 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.800 they first attempted to drop a SAP phone and a 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:12.880 mobile phone to. 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:13.840 The pirates in the lifeboat. 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:15.880 The pirates through those in the ocean because they thought 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.160 that they were using them to communicate with the captain 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.200 of the ship. At one point, the captain, who they'd 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.040 held hostage, ended up in the ocean, but then he 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:27.800 got back into the lifeboat. The situation was resolved eventually 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.400 by the Navy seals shooting all the pirates. They were 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.120 based on one of the US ships, and they used 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.199 siper rifles to shoot the pirates. 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.240 Really yep, they shot. 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.280 Them all off the lifeboat while the captain of the 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.960 ship was also in the lifeboat. WHOA, yeah, no, then 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:46.600 I would be shocked if that's not a film about this, 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:48.679 or I know the captain of the ship has written 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:52.440 a book about his time being captured. But obviously, like 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.920 this kind of rattled the world, right, It scared a 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.120 lot of people, specifically in the shipping industry, because this 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:02.160 is a scary thing to happen, and specifically this change 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:06.120 in the nature of piracy from taking stuff to potentially 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.920 capturing people. And I believe the goal of the pirates 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.520 here was to get the captain ashore where they could hide. 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.240 Him more easily, right in Somalia. 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:18.559 And then it becomes entirely different issue when you're trying 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.040 to get US troops into a completely different country to 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:22.119 rescue someone. 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:23.959 A different land mass. Yeah. 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.439 Yeah, And I think it's really important to talk about 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:32.040 like the jurisdictional issues here because they are what gives 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.240 the pmsc is so much leeway. I think we'll take 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.440 a little break talking about jurisdiction and then we will 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:38.920 come back. 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:50.760 All right, we're back. 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:55.120 So to understand private maritime security companies, you've got to 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.640 understand the world of flags of convenience first. Familiar with 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.960 flags the convenience garrison. No, No, okay, this is good. 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.160 This is James gets to download shit that he reads 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.600 that no, for no reason at like eleven o'clock at night. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:14.280 There are nations in the world states that allow vessels 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.080 to register under their flag even if the owner of 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:18.800 the vessel it's not a citizen of that country. 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:20.920 It's called an open registry. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:23.760 So if you hang out in the port, spend time 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:25.720 looking at boats, to look at the flags of other boats, 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.640 you will often see flags of a few countries. The 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:34.200 most common ones are Liberia, Panama, and the Republic of 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:39.080 the Marshall Islands. The reason that boat owners might choose 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.720 let's say you Garrison have a boat right or a 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:47.680 shipping company Garrison Davis Boats Incorporated, and you don't want 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.679 to register them in Canada or the United States, might 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.840 be to avoid tax liability. Might be to avoid like 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:58.559 what you consider to be burdens and safety regulations, okay, 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:04.160 might be to avoid the frustrating constraints of Canadian labor law, 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.400 or it might be to avoid some ecological constraints on 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:12.800 your boats which your flag nation might impose. And generally 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.880 flags of convenience have very little in the way of 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:20.040 taxation and regulation, right and so people might choose to 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.880 flag their vessel in Liberia, Panama, Publican, Marshall Islands, Hong 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:29.040 Kong instead to avoid some of those issues. Right now, 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:33.120 the issue comes when you read say you register your 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.600 boat in Liberia and your boat is off on its 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.080 way delivering things, and then some pirates sees your boat. 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.800 I'm guessing Liberia is not going to be of much assistance. 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:45.920 Yeah, they're not coming, yeah, yeah, the Liberian Navy is 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.920 not available to help you in that instance right now. 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:54.360 Because there tends to be very little constraint on flags 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:56.880 of convenience, there's also very little constraint on what can 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:01.440 happen on those boats, right so you could hire a 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.920 private maritime security company and they could protect your boat, 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.120 and the chances are the flagger convenience country would not 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:12.000 regulate anything that they did on your boat or the 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:16.280 weaponry they held on your boat. Ah, the rMIDAS the 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:20.240 Marshall Islands does, does regulate somewhat the weaponry that the 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.040 Marshal Islands flagged boats could have. I think the reason 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.280 there are so many boats flagged in the Marshall Islands, 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.800 at least in part, is because half the world's tuna 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:32.040 is caught in Marshall Islands waters. So a lot of 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.160 those vessels will probably have They'll choose for the Marshal 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.960 Islands flag because it allows them to fish in territorial waters. 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.920 Would be my guess. I've met some some contractors on 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:42.520 Marshal Lea's boat, so I'm not a guy who is 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:46.360 a helicopter pilot for a tuna fishing boat in a 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.680 bar once. I guess they fly the helicopter to look 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.840 for the fish and then the boat comes and catches 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:53.320 the fish. 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:55.880 Huh Yeah, fascinating world. 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:58.880 I don't think it's a highly enjoyable job, but I 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:00.880 think it's people do it tog They're flight hours up 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.640 so they can do other things. So because of this 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.440 legal it's not really a legal gray area, just the 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.920 fact that these people are not regulated in any way. 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.320 Right people can carry weapons on ships. 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.319 Now, in the case of piracy off Somalia specifically, the 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:20.040 United Nations did authorize military action against Somali pirates, and 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:25.440 between twenty and forty boats were there at any given 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:30.040 time in the next four years trying to police piracy. 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:34.400 But that's not enough boats because every boat that is 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:36.720 moving through that area is at risk for piracy. And 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:42.280 pirates can use very small boats to board very big boats, right, 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.840 And unless that very big boat is somehow able to 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.560 defend itself, all they need is a few weapons and 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.000 the ability to get out board, and they're hard to truck, right. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.760 I've heard from people who did contracting in the pre 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:56.040 two thousand and eight era that basically that they put 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:57.920 barbed wire on the edge of the boat to stop 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.000 people getting on, and then they had the l rap 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.720 like they was that long range the sound weapon. Yeah, 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:05.680 the sound weapon, And I'm not sure that it was 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:07.600 there as a weapon. I think it was there to 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:11.320 notify other ships like get out the way, but that 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.800 it could be weaponized. And then after that it was 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.200 like big sticks and harsh words, I guess. So like 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.160 when you have the guys who took over the mesk 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.440 Alabama coming in with a few kalashnikov they have the 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.360 balance of force on their side, right, That. 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:26.960 Is no longer the case anymore. 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.360 Initially in two thousand and nine, groups like Blackwater tried 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.360 to get in on this, and they did it actually 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:37.200 by more or less, I guess, like copying the privateer 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:41.560 model that we'd seen in the nineteenth century. They refitted 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:47.080 commercial boats with weapons and offered them like for higher 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.800 as like a rental, like as an accompaniment. 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:51.800 They would like gas scort another ship. 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:56.480 Yeah, they'd escort you through this dangerous area and then 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.040 turn around and escort someone who was going the other way. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:00.000 Or that was the idea. 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.440 Yes, sure, it didn't really work a because it was 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:07.040 expensive right to run these vessels, and b because you 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.080 need so many of them, and so what they ended 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:12.960 up doing instead was actually stationing people on the vessels. 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:18.160 So these security contractors will now live on the oil 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.720 tanker or the container ship, either for its all journey 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:23.760 or for the duration of the time which it's considered 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:25.320 danger well. 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.960 And also, I mean, if pirates try to get onto 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.360 the big ship and all of the military guys are 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.960 on a different ship a little bit behind, you have 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.720 to get those guys onto the other ship, right. 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:38.240 And then then now you're shooting at the ship that 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.080 you're supposed to be protecting. And I can see that big. 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.240 That does just make it a little bit more complicated. 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:47.840 Yeah, yeah, Unfortunately, the way, according to reports I've read, 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:49.520 I should say, the way they have got around this 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:54.600 issue is by preemptively shooting at vessels that they consider 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:57.440 to be a threat. Sure, and there are plenty of 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.280 allegations of them. We'll get onto the lack of really 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.960 any means of legal accountability at some point. What they 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:08.800 do instead is they allow contractors to go on the ships, 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:10.320 and these contractors then have. 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:11.240 To be armed. Right. 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.320 The way they tend to be armed is depending on 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.440 the flag of the ship and what regulations it has. 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.760 Right generally, if they're entering into an area where they 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.160 can't be armed, they have what are called floating armories. 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:22.679 Those are what they sound like. 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.600 You don't understand how long in my freelance career I 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.320 spent trying to get onto one of these particular boats. 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:31.640 It was a long time. 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:34.480 So is this just like a tiny boat on a 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:36.240 string with a whole winch of guns on it? Like 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:37.399 what it could be? 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.000 It could be an old oil platform, it could be 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:43.480 a little boat, could be a big boat. Sometimes the 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.840 contractors themselves will like that's where the contractors will meet 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.320 the big boat, right and they'll get on it there, 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:52.040 so they have like an area they can hang out, 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:53.520 like it has living facilities. 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:54.480 Huh. 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:56.760 I've spoken to a few people in this world, but 0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:59.440 you know, if you happen to be listening and you're 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.760 boat secure, guy, I know. This is continues to fascinate 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.040 me as an area where like the state doesn't exist 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:09.240 and we have this like post state private militarization. 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.679 It's like anarcho capitalism. Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, exactly 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:15.920 it is. It is a vision of the ancap future 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.520 that I don't love. That is very interesting. 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:23.440 Right, there were states that offered to have like vessel detachments. 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:24.439 The Dutch did this. 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.560 I believe they would be like, we will send you 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.720 I'm not familiar with the Dutch military. Sorry, Dutch listeners, 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.359 Dutch marines, I imagine, right, and you can have a 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:36.000 few of them on your boat. But even Dutch companies 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.960 are Dutch flag vessels weren't using it because it was 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.520 so much paperwork and the government couldn't keep up with 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:42.080 their demands. 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:43.480 So they might now what to get some guys, what's 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:44.440 pay them? Fine? 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:49.920 Yeah, the state has more or less completely removed itself 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:55.440 from the sphere and removed itself from doing anything approaching accountability, 0:18:55.960 --> 0:19:01.000 and so it is extremely hard for these people to 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:06.840 be held accountable for things that they do in international waters. Right, 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:12.760 there are like industry standards in the industry itself sets, 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:14.960 in the same way that there are standards for cops 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.040 that the cops themselves set, and those have generally not 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:21.800 been the best means of accountability. Right in the theory, 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.240 anytime they engage someone, certainly, if they kill someone, the 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.280 ship's authorities should report that. 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.840 Yeah hopefully, Yeah cool, I'm sure they will. I'm sure 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.000 they love to do the paperwork. But then who would 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:34.520 they report it to? 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:34.800 Right? 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.879 Do they report it to the country they suspect the 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:42.240 people they are shooting at their country? Do they report 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:45.760 it to the flag of convenience country? Do they report 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.080 it to the company they work for? Like, I'm sure 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.720 there is some jurisdiction of maritime law which would give 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:56.240 us an answer to that, But in practice there appears 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.760 to be very little mechanism for accountability, in the same 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.960 way that there is very little mechanism for accountability for 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.520 labor law violations at sea. I would recommend if people 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.600 haven't listened this podcast called Outlaw Ocean. It's probably five 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:12.800 or six years old at this point. I think it 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.400 was in New York Times Investigation along with someone else. 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.359 It was a good podcast about labor violations at sea, 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.160 and they specifically looked at some of these fishing vessels 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:25.760 and the fact that they use people who are essentially 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.240 an indentured servitude. But they also touched on private maritime security. 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:34.879 These days we see a lot less piracy off Somalia 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:39.359 right it has reached its peak. I found this little 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.119 chunk in an article I was reading on jastore this 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.560 morning that I thought was interesting. Quote maritime security companies 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:49.000 have been consulted on greenpeace activists attempt to climb onto 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:52.280 a gas prom off your platform in September twenty thirteen 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.960 to protest ruling in the Arctic and attacks against oil 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.600 and gas installations by the Movement for the Emancipation as 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.280