Speaker 1: The Quest Love Show is a production of iHeartRadio, Ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen. My name is Questlove. This is the Quest
Speaker 1: Love Show. It's not often that one gets a career
Speaker 1: that enables him to write his own ticket and fulfill
Speaker 1: a bunch of bucketless dreams, of which creating this very
Speaker 1: platform to nerd out on some of my favorite people
Speaker 1: in creativity. Our guest today is absolutely no exception. His
Speaker 1: creativity is so strong, so stringent, so powerful that it
Speaker 1: actually inspired my best friend and not in high school,
Speaker 1: to start our own group. Not many people can claim that, Look, man,
Speaker 1: I canna say? Is that Kelvin Passus Mercer has agreed
Speaker 1: to let me ask him eighty six questions? Number one,
Speaker 1: how you doing today?
Speaker 2: Sir? What's good? Man? I mean, thank you for the intro,
Speaker 2: because you know, Bro, I mean sometimes I when I'm
Speaker 2: blessed to hear you say things like that, I already
Speaker 2: view our relationship as brothers and friends, so you know,
Speaker 2: I sometimes have to look through you like okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe this is how when I talk to Jeff, but
Speaker 2: when I go to the phone, like damn, that's Jessey Jeff.
Speaker 1: But I'm his friends, so I won't make it weird.
Speaker 2: At all. It's a blessing. But you know, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: is he talking about me because I'm his homeboy?
Speaker 1: But anyway, I got to start. Could you please tell
Speaker 1: me how you met true Roy the Dove day Jallaker
Speaker 1: from day La Saul.
Speaker 2: Well, when I moved to Long Island from the Bronx
Speaker 2: and started going to school, the first two people I met.
Speaker 2: The first person I met was a girl named Regina Peters,
Speaker 2: and the very second person I met in school who
Speaker 2: was so cool to me was a brother by the
Speaker 2: name of Michael Jollichor, which is Dave's brother. So that's
Speaker 2: how I got to know Dave. I was actually friends
Speaker 2: with his brother Mike, and I would see Dave from afar,
Speaker 2: you know, like, oh that's you know, that's that's Mike's
Speaker 2: brother Dave. So I mean, this is me and Mike
Speaker 2: in fourth grade. I didn't really get cool with Dave
Speaker 2: where I knew him as like Dave, maybe more towards
Speaker 2: like eighth grade.
Speaker 1: I'm about to say, when you're younger, when someone's like
Speaker 1: two or three years younger than you, that's a whole
Speaker 1: nother generation pretty much. So he was like a little
Speaker 1: kid to you and then selling like he just grew up.
Speaker 1: And then.
Speaker 2: Him and Mike were very close, even though like he's
Speaker 2: the older brother, he was very close. I mean older
Speaker 2: by what, I don't know, two years maybe, but they
Speaker 2: were very close. But like I said, it was just
Speaker 2: that Dave had his set of friends, and you know,
Speaker 2: like if I was coming around, it was because of Mike.
Speaker 2: It really wasn't because of Dave at all. So I
Speaker 2: would see Dave day would just see me basically because
Speaker 2: Mike had brought me around.
Speaker 1: So we should also know that Mike was also like
Speaker 1: a legendary tour manager. I first met Mike because he
Speaker 1: was tour managing a common Like was he you guys
Speaker 1: just tour manager when you first started.
Speaker 2: Or he was our road manager starting from about eighty
Speaker 2: nine when ll so, yeah, he started out as our
Speaker 2: road manager, yeah, and just worked his way into like
Speaker 2: doing it and touring tour managing for other artists.
Speaker 1: So how did you meet Vincent Mason mas.
Speaker 2: Mace in school? I mean he moved from Brooklyn. I
Speaker 2: just saw him in the school or see around because
Speaker 2: he was just he's just stood out. You know a
Speaker 2: lot of times when someone new come to the school
Speaker 2: that it is standout immediately.
Speaker 1: And what school was this?
Speaker 2: Amityville Junior High. So this was junior high school. And
Speaker 2: you know, Mace was a fairly big guy, so I
Speaker 2: was like, you do it. I'm just assuming he was
Speaker 2: going to be in migrat and he was actually like
Speaker 2: a grade below. So yeah, I mean we but we
Speaker 2: didn't talk for the first time until we met through
Speaker 2: a mutual friend of ours who he was actually the
Speaker 2: first DJ that me and Dave was dealing with, named
Speaker 2: Charlie Rock, and that's how we met Mace to actually
Speaker 2: have conversations with him.
Speaker 1: So what was the difference between Long Island life versus
Speaker 1: life in the Bronx.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, for me, the immediate difference was the
Speaker 2: difference between a project building and in houses and in
Speaker 2: green grass. But even when I was living in Nelson
Speaker 2: Avenue in the Bronx, I mean, it was a lot
Speaker 2: of community. You were kind of really close around each other.
Speaker 2: So luckily enough the kids we all commune together, and
Speaker 2: the parents was really nice to us. But I had
Speaker 2: got an understanding of what say open air living was
Speaker 2: when my mother would send me and my brothers to Waynesboro,
Speaker 2: Georgia every summer. We never spent the summer in the Bronx,
Speaker 2: so by the time they was moving us to Long Island,
Speaker 2: it was like a similar feel of like, oh houses space,
Speaker 2: you know you have a backyard, you got a front yard,
Speaker 2: So that was the major difference immediately, and then being
Speaker 2: able to just I guess my mother feel like it
Speaker 2: was safe for us to not being her eyes view.
Speaker 2: So when we was in the Bronx, we would play
Speaker 2: like downstairs and main area where every parent can see
Speaker 2: their kids. Like my mother was felt cool enough for
Speaker 2: me to ride my bike off of the block right.
Speaker 2: He was also something that was just afforded with him
Speaker 2: Long Island.
Speaker 1: Any recollection or memories of any of the folk lore
Speaker 1: that the Bronx speaks on in their early years, like
Speaker 1: any block parties or have you heard a yes, yes
Speaker 1: y'all from you know?
Speaker 2: Honestly, no, I didn't see that. I didn't see hip
Speaker 2: hop block parties. I mean the Jamaican brothers in our building,
Speaker 2: like they could turn around and have speakers out, or
Speaker 2: you can hear music playing loud like that, But I
Speaker 2: personally didn't see any like Bronx block party. Nah.
Speaker 1: So at any point in the day I sold timeline.
Speaker 1: Were you and Dave ever at any point just regular
Speaker 1: ass yes, yes, y'all. MC's like and I'm here to say,
Speaker 1: has that ever been like your second line in any
Speaker 1: rhyme you've ever said?
Speaker 2: Just like all of us getting bit by the hip
Speaker 2: hop bug. From the earlier days of it, it was
Speaker 2: just more being a listener. But by the time I
Speaker 2: really wanted to pick up a pen and do it,
Speaker 2: I was already bitten by Treacherous Three and how their
Speaker 2: cadences were. So No, I really wasn't like, yes, yes,
Speaker 2: y'all into the beat, not like sires of the phone, creative,
Speaker 2: a new tone. It's so much you put your trust
Speaker 2: in a sound and style. That's how I started rhyming.
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, see you're a cool with
Speaker 1: the disciphle. Yeah, how social word you guys before the
Speaker 1: concept of hey, let's start a group, social and like
Speaker 1: just being friends and hanging. You know, when I met Tarik,
Speaker 1: I'll pretty much say that we were a group maybe
Speaker 1: three months later, I mean, or at least my job
Speaker 1: was to hit the lunch table. Yeah, And that's how
Speaker 1: gained access with it. So like was music the immediate
Speaker 1: social adhesions that brought you guys together.
Speaker 2: Or before Dayla. It was more like we were just
Speaker 2: doing it. Like like I said, everyone was bitten by
Speaker 2: this bug and I was like breaking popping, and you know,
Speaker 2: it was almost at one point, me, Dave and a
Speaker 2: couple other friends. One of our friends, Anthony Bryant his
Speaker 2: pops was trying to put us together to possibly going
Speaker 2: to Apollo and he was gonna dance and pops. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was stuff like that going on. We didn't really
Speaker 2: say we wanted to be a group or try some
Speaker 2: hip hop group thing until Dave, who was just into
Speaker 2: be boxing, he be boxed against a really well known
Speaker 2: be box called Paul Paul Carry. He was really dope
Speaker 2: at beat boxing and Dave just kind of back him
Speaker 2: and it was like right from there, like Dave was
Speaker 2: really nervous, but he did his thing, and then we
Speaker 2: all went outside and we was like, yo, that was
Speaker 2: so dope, and we was like, we should form a group.
Speaker 2: And that's when the first time we even pictured anything
Speaker 2: about let's be a group outside of us being a
Speaker 2: fan of just the music.
Speaker 1: Was Dale I sold the name of that group or
Speaker 1: did you go through other iterations before it was.
Speaker 2: Called easy Street. I wanted to get to be called
Speaker 2: Sop Sounds because I was already writing and just thinking
Speaker 2: of different different names because it was just something I
Speaker 2: would do. And so when we were just thinking of
Speaker 2: like a name for the group, and this is us
Speaker 2: outside of the high school, just thinking like what could
Speaker 2: we do, we was like, Yo, let's what kind of name.
Speaker 2: I was like, Yo, we should call ourselves Sop Sounds.
Speaker 2: And then I explained to them like yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: my mother always be like, yo, you better sop up
Speaker 2: that syrup and that plate. So I was like, yo,
Speaker 2: we are all these different sounds would sop together. And
Speaker 2: everyone was like, nah, merce that that doesn't sound not
Speaker 2: like Yo, let's call ourselves easy Street. I thought that
Speaker 2: was the wackest shit ever, but everyone loved it. Everyone's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: easy Street. And that was Dave being a B box,
Speaker 2: me being a DJ, my people's Anthony, my people's Rob,
Speaker 2: and my people's KD. His name was Kelvin two. They
Speaker 2: were the MC's. So that's how that was the first group.
Speaker 2: Me and Dave was in Easy Street. And even Dave
Speaker 2: be boxing and me cutting, we was even still putting
Speaker 2: together rhymes to give to them to say as they
Speaker 2: even wrote their own rhymes.
Speaker 1: Okay, can you tell me the story of how you
Speaker 1: met Paul Houston Prince Paul.
Speaker 2: Paul was the cousin of the first girl I told
Speaker 2: you I met the first person I met in high school,
Speaker 2: which was Regina Peters. Soon you just moved Paul from Afarm.
Speaker 2: Paul was just very cool, very intelligent guy who could
Speaker 2: just DJ is asshole. He was just a great DJ
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood. So just knew him from Afar. I
Speaker 2: think he was a He was probably in the same
Speaker 2: grade or maybe A no, the same grade as my
Speaker 2: brother Tyrone. So yeah, I mean just knew him from Afar.
Speaker 2: And so me and Regina being really good friends, I
Speaker 2: found out, oh that's her cousin, and even he he
Speaker 2: DJ like one of her birthday parties that we would
Speaker 2: be at. So we just knew Paul like as like, Yo,
Speaker 2: that's Paul, you know, that's he was really cool. But
Speaker 2: that was DJ Prince Paul from Afar. You know. I
Speaker 2: must say I probably didn't even meet him where we
Speaker 2: exchanged anything between each other until Mace got with Paul
Speaker 2: to work with him on something that a gentleman on
Speaker 2: my block. His name was mister Evertt Collins, and he
Speaker 2: was the tour drummer for Eisley Brothers as well as
Speaker 2: a music teacher. So once Mace was working with Paul
Speaker 2: on that, he was the one who then introduced me
Speaker 2: and Dave de Paul. And I think Dave actually knew Paul,
Speaker 2: but I didn't know him, like Paul knew my brother Tyrone,
Speaker 2: and he knew me as like, oh, that's Tyrone's little
Speaker 2: brother Kelvin, and I knew now.
Speaker 1: On the the thirty fifth anniversary of three FID and Rising,
Speaker 1: you guys included the original plug tuning and also the
Speaker 1: original freedom of speak what equipment? And that was done
Speaker 1: without Prince Paul, Like that was just you guys on
Speaker 1: your own. Yeah, how did you guys make that? Like
Speaker 1: what what equipment did you use?
Speaker 2: I think it was an RZ one Mace had. He
Speaker 2: had the drum, the RZ one drum machine. We also
Speaker 2: had this, uh oh man, what's the name of it.
Speaker 2: I know it was I want to say, We had
Speaker 2: like this tac I think that's the way you say it,
Speaker 2: a track recorder. And then we also had the little
Speaker 2: cassio with the sample where you could sample into it.
Speaker 2: I think me and you we spoke about this before.
Speaker 2: But the little cassio with the keyboards and had to like.
Speaker 1: The s K one yeah you go, oh no, no, no,
Speaker 1: the one with the four drum pads on it, the
Speaker 1: four drugs. That's a more advanced version. Okay. Was this
Speaker 1: eighty six or eighty seven you're speaking of? Yeah, eighty
Speaker 1: six okay.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe I think it was the pad
Speaker 2: one we had so yeah, because we were putting noises
Speaker 2: in that, because that's where I first even did the
Speaker 2: three is the magic number for the demo. I would
Speaker 2: just just keep hitting it and in mace we would
Speaker 2: loop the the beat from what was that? No, well, no,
Speaker 2: we took it from the hip hop history lesson three
Speaker 2: double Dan Steinsky.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I got it, okay.
Speaker 2: Which was, like you said, the led Zeppelin drums. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean it was just those things we was working
Speaker 2: with for in the house. It was very limited equipment.
Speaker 2: We thought it was the most amazing equipment at that time.
Speaker 2: And you know, you know, we would just redub. We
Speaker 2: would do one take of something and dub over the
Speaker 2: next take, and yeah, it is that simple.
Speaker 1: What was it about Paul. That showed you guys that
Speaker 1: you guys spoke the same language, and you know what
Speaker 1: was the basic process and just pushing the train along
Speaker 1: to let's be a group, to let's make a demo,
Speaker 1: to let's try to get a record deal.
Speaker 2: Well, once Paul heard the demos, you know, it was
Speaker 2: great to have him hear it, because, mind you, at
Speaker 2: this point, this is DJ. This is now Prince Paul.
Speaker 2: It's not DJ Paul. This is Principle now with stet
Speaker 2: and you know, and they already got like a single out,
Speaker 2: you know, rockdale O'steto already went into their first album.
Speaker 2: So at that point, you figure all wanted to meet
Speaker 2: with me, Dave, along with Mace and so from that
Speaker 2: point I was just very in awe of it all.
Speaker 2: But I was still very skeptic when he was just
Speaker 2: talking about wanting to now add stuff and to whatever
Speaker 2: these things that we had started to create on our own.
Speaker 2: You know, these are just forty fives out of our
Speaker 2: own home that went from a pause tape to now
Speaker 2: what's working on in mace basement. Were very proud of it,
Speaker 2: and we was very happy to now that Paul wanted
Speaker 2: to be a part of it. I remember him having
Speaker 2: that conversation like, you know, I would love to try
Speaker 2: to add some stuff to it, and da da dah,
Speaker 2: and I in my heart I was like, I don't
Speaker 2: know if I'm with all that, but let's see where
Speaker 2: it goes. And when he added what he added, when
Speaker 2: he updated everything, it was absolutely mind blowing. And then
Speaker 2: even then it wasn't until like us like really just
Speaker 2: hanging around each other amongst this time he heard some
Speaker 2: of the other stuff he was doing, which were the skits.
Speaker 2: This us just having fun. It wasn't even skits does
Speaker 2: It was just when we were just lacking off supposed
Speaker 2: to be doing what we was doing and were just
Speaker 2: having fun being idiots. And Paul was just like, yo,
Speaker 2: you know, look what I do with my friends. And
Speaker 2: he put in THEO VH tape of him over dubbing
Speaker 2: him and his friend's voice over like cares. That is
Speaker 2: where I was like, Yo, this dude is like us,
Speaker 2: Like he's exactly like us.
Speaker 1: Wait, he would do that just to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were like literally put both clubs of the
Speaker 2: karate tapes like ooh, you stole my doodle, and it
Speaker 2: was time to fight. And he would do stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So he would have been amazing on Instagram and YouTube
Speaker 1: had that been indeed in twenty five years early. Okay,
Speaker 1: and you know, mind you, I know that I'm rehashing
Speaker 1: stuff that we've talked about personally, but we've never been
Speaker 1: on this platform to speak of it. All Right, this
Speaker 1: is the most mind blowing thing. Could you give me
Speaker 1: what the budget was to record the entire Three Feet
Speaker 1: High and Rising album?
Speaker 2: It was like thirteen thousand dollars. It's like eleven thirteen
Speaker 2: thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Okay, Like I think maybe the distortion is static, like
Speaker 1: Bob Power's budget for mixing might have been like half that.
Speaker 1: So I was just mind blown that you guys were
Speaker 1: able to make an entire revolution in such a limited
Speaker 1: financial capacity. Did you think that was fairly typical backven
Speaker 1: or did you know, like a camo on an independent label?
Speaker 1: And because in our mind we're like, yeah, yeah, the
Speaker 1: Tommy Boy umbrella. So I'm thinking you guys are lighting
Speaker 1: up cigars one hundred dollar bills, and.
Speaker 2: I mean, in mind, you humbly, we had no idea,
Speaker 2: you know, right, Tommy Boy was one of those labels
Speaker 2: that just the logo alone, meant something to you the
Speaker 2: way the deaf Jam logo meant something to you, you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. So, and we were blessed to
Speaker 2: have all these different labels wrought to sign us. But
Speaker 2: we felt comfortable being with Tommy Boy because they were
Speaker 2: like in I'm on a premium label of hip hop,
Speaker 2: and Prince Paul, our big brother, was there. So, I mean,
Speaker 2: when we got the budget we had, we didn't know
Speaker 2: any better. We didn't know, I mean, you know, and
Speaker 2: and being very honest, we're like, we're kids from a
Speaker 2: you know, fairly middle class, working, middle class family. You know,
Speaker 2: we had good living, but we thought thirteen thousand dollars
Speaker 2: a lot of money, so, you know, and whatever we
Speaker 2: had to do, what we had to do. Paul was
Speaker 2: very aware of, I'm assuming of whatever budget he had
Speaker 2: with stets of Sonic, and he was very aware of,
Speaker 2: like when we were going to Calliope as creative and
Speaker 2: as beautiful, Paul made the environment. Paul was very much
Speaker 2: to the clock. He was like, you know, he would
Speaker 2: look like, all right, we need to wrap things up
Speaker 2: or so he was. He was very aware and very
Speaker 2: frugal of what we do to spend. But yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: I had no idea that thirteen thousand dollars is nothing,
Speaker 2: whereas of course, like these days, I mean you asking
Speaker 2: an MC to run for thirteen thousand dollars, that's probably
Speaker 2: like four lines.
Speaker 1: The thing is is that, especially with the first two records,
Speaker 1: you guys really make it sound like you lived in
Speaker 1: that environment. So I can't even fathom like everything has
Speaker 1: to be made and created in one specific space simply
Speaker 1: because like even the way that you guys make the
Speaker 1: skits sound, you guys make the skit sound very off
Speaker 1: the cuff, although when you listen to those skits, they're
Speaker 1: also like well craft and well produced, Like when it's
Speaker 1: the Roots, we will be at sound check and then
Speaker 1: Tubo wear something real ugly or whatever, and then we'll
Speaker 1: break out in the song and make fun of him
Speaker 1: for five minutes. But you know, it's like us making
Speaker 1: it off the cuff, and you guys make it feel
Speaker 1: like it's off the cuff. Although I know a lot
Speaker 1: of planning goes into those skits, and I just always wondered,
Speaker 1: like how much time it's been a calliope is calliope
Speaker 1: just for vocals? And then you guys have a sort
Speaker 1: of a home based center in which the tape or
Speaker 1: the mic is always running in case something funny happens,
Speaker 1: it goes or we knew.
Speaker 2: Like we had a plan for what we need to do.
Speaker 2: We had, you know, Paul will give homework assignments like
Speaker 2: so yo, okay, got this song that looks like y'all
Speaker 2: want to call ghetto things or merse and Dave, you
Speaker 2: need to make sure you got this ready for that. Honestly,
Speaker 2: that first album, a lot of that was just off
Speaker 2: the cuff with the skits. By the time we got
Speaker 2: to day La Soul, it was more like, Okay, we're
Speaker 2: going to plan you know, I got this funny idea
Speaker 2: for a site, you know, so I mean like a
Speaker 2: lot of things like say day La Soul orgy. It
Speaker 2: was just Paul already had to beat looped. We were
Speaker 2: just trying to figure out what we could do with it.
Speaker 2: I make a joke and be like we should moan
Speaker 2: and groan over it. He's like, that's a great idea.
Speaker 2: I was only joking. We all now have to go
Speaker 2: into the booth moaning, groan, Wait a minute hour. One
Speaker 2: of our dancers and Dave's cousins there y'all coming as
Speaker 2: the girls and do this your tip coming with us.
Speaker 2: Then out of nowhere we get Daylight Orgie. So a
Speaker 2: lot of that was just it was not planned for
Speaker 2: the three feet high joint by the time we got
Speaker 2: to Daylight. So it's dead. Yeah, like you said, like
Speaker 2: we knew we want to make this song called Kicked
Speaker 2: out the House, and that comes up with to be
Speaker 2: at Home. We come in, they comes with the chorus
Speaker 2: and then we're like, yo, we should get Bobby the
Speaker 2: drummer from stet to act like he's Colonel Abrams and
Speaker 2: everyone's laughing, and he does it like that's where you
Speaker 2: do it a little bit more of the magic of
Speaker 2: on the puff. You're still playing.
Speaker 1: To me, it's like you might lose the funny if
Speaker 1: you plan it. Okay, press play and then it's like,
Speaker 1: all right, well the joke's over now. But it just
Speaker 1: always felt like the tape is running now.
Speaker 2: It could be because, like I said, with day Laso
Speaker 2: is dead, Dave just happened to be bugging out on
Speaker 2: the piano. I'm sitting down like on a far couch
Speaker 2: and calliope and he's just on the piano, just doing
Speaker 2: stupid shit. And out of nowhere, Paul is just like
Speaker 2: he's signaling the engineer, like what the mike on, and
Speaker 2: then he's just kind of sitting next to him, and
Speaker 2: that becomes.
Speaker 1: Mike's always set up in the live studio.
Speaker 2: Like it just set up, so he just told him
Speaker 2: to turn the mic on and they didn't realize that
Speaker 2: what was happening. And next thing, I know, that becomes
Speaker 2: the skit that goes in front of the biddies.
Speaker 1: And okay, I got it. Okay, what was the very
Speaker 1: first song worked on for three f HI and rising
Speaker 1: aside from pluck tuning, like a lot of.
Speaker 2: That was just stuff at home, so blug tuning, Freedom
Speaker 2: Must Speak. All that was done at the same time
Speaker 2: at the crib, and then of course we came into
Speaker 2: Calliope to do it. I would say the next song
Speaker 2: once we like got an album deal, because yeah, the
Speaker 2: next album was, I mean the next single deal was
Speaker 2: Potholes and Jennifer. I don't know, I want to say
Speaker 2: for some reason, I want to say say no go,
Speaker 2: we just kind of start all falling out of it.
Speaker 2: If it was already ideas at that point we had,
Speaker 2: like I knew, I want to do something with the
Speaker 2: Hall of Notes record. I knew I wanted to do
Speaker 2: something with the Steely Dan record, you know, and then
Speaker 2: we just started putting these things together.
Speaker 1: Got it okay? So this album is also being made
Speaker 1: pre pro tools access. So when you guys are doing
Speaker 1: things like the Chopsticks bit on Jennifer, is this the
Speaker 1: era of having to splice tape or are you guys
Speaker 1: like the Bomb Squad in which you know by bar
Speaker 1: sixty four you gotta go down to twenty two bpms
Speaker 1: or is it like, what is the editing process?
Speaker 2: The editing for that particular song. It wasn't edit of
Speaker 2: us putting in the Chopsticks but versus biddies into BK Lounge.
Speaker 2: It was just all chaos, like things was lined up
Speaker 2: and you know by the time Dave finished his because
Speaker 2: it was like, Okay, I want to do this song.
Speaker 2: I told I. Remember I'm with Tip, we were shopping
Speaker 2: for records. I'm like, yo, I want to do like
Speaker 2: a roxhand rock sand like UTFO have to three beats.
Speaker 2: I won't do that for us. It became what I
Speaker 2: wanted to attach to, this idea of us making something
Speaker 2: about going into Burger King. So once we start putting
Speaker 2: it together. Everything was just laid together. So Dave's music,
Speaker 2: which was the Tanya Gardner No Frieze record, my music
Speaker 2: which is what is that It's your thing, It's your thing,
Speaker 2: and Mace's music, so like it was all lined up together.
Speaker 2: And so we just kind of like had to realize,
Speaker 2: all right, Dave, you ended it right there. We click
Speaker 2: in the it's your thing. It don't sound right. So
Speaker 2: we was like, okay, we got extended a little bit longer.
Speaker 2: Say something. He says, stupid bitches, and then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden.
Speaker 1: I thought you were saying it spinding burg all right,
Speaker 1: all right, I still thought he was saying spinding Broker
Speaker 1: speaking a Burger from the beginning, but stupa bitches.
Speaker 2: All a sudden, it works all right, cool, Like it
Speaker 2: was just like just chaos, sweet chaos, like nothing like it.
Speaker 1: Okay. So now that time has passed, the flow and
Speaker 1: Eddie's situation with the Turtles. Of course, you guys are
Speaker 1: part of the this Land Marenk situation in which a
Speaker 1: sample wasn't cleared. And I guess the kids of the
Speaker 1: Turtles were fans of you guys. Heard it, Mom and Dad, listen,
Speaker 1: they're playing your music and suddenly they get litigious. The
Speaker 1: lure of it, I was like to believe, like between
Speaker 1: you guys in bismarcky, like those were the darkest days
Speaker 1: in history and da da da da da. Was it
Speaker 1: just basically we cleared the sample and that was it?
Speaker 1: Or like I mean, at its worst, were you guys
Speaker 1: suit for trillions or like I never knew what happened
Speaker 1: at the end of that situation.
Speaker 2: It got settled. I was actually with our legal team
Speaker 2: meeting with their legal team, their legal team, the Lee lawyer.
Speaker 2: He was a big Day Off fan. He wanted to
Speaker 2: autograph and everything. Oh yeah, it wasn't anything I mean
Speaker 2: outside of realizing, okay, we're getting sued for something we
Speaker 2: thought we handed not even that we thought we knew
Speaker 2: we handed in the Tomic Boy. That in itself was
Speaker 2: very upsetting to us. But yeah, the actual dealing with it,
Speaker 2: it wasn't anything I would say crazy outside and realizing
Speaker 2: that the meet up with these people, come to an
Speaker 2: understanding of what it should be, which we wound up doing.
Speaker 2: Tommy Boy want up paying them some money. I didn't
Speaker 2: learn the fact that here it is the money that
Speaker 2: Tommy Boy was going to pay them to settle. This
Speaker 2: was going to come out of our shit. And then
Speaker 2: that was another thing that kind of like made us
Speaker 2: learn about Wow, like we're being punished with something we
Speaker 2: actually handed in, you know, watch falls on us. But
Speaker 2: the dude was cool about it. The lawyer, their lawyer,
Speaker 2: and it didn't seem like he was being mean or anything.
Speaker 2: He actually, in speaking to our lawyer, was like, if
Speaker 2: the guys wanted to actually work with the turtles, maybe
Speaker 2: that could be a solve, and we were just kind
Speaker 2: of like creatively like, nah, we want to do that,
Speaker 2: because if it was about that, maybe y'all should have
Speaker 2: just led that. I just think like, nah, like now,
Speaker 2: in hindsight, maybe that's what we should have did. We
Speaker 2: just felt like, nah, man, like y'all just came and
Speaker 2: try to sue us, and now you're getting this money,
Speaker 2: but now you're trying to work with us. Sense.
Speaker 1: The way that I was shot for Records back then
Speaker 1: was literally look at all the sample credits and then
Speaker 1: no to get that artist, and then anything that they've
Speaker 1: been on and anything they've been you know, so on
Speaker 1: and so forth. So like on their side of the fence,
Speaker 1: none of them saw this as like a good look.
Speaker 1: I mean, look for George Clinton, he admitted, Dude, if
Speaker 1: it weren't for y'all, the third Renaissance of Parliament Funkadelic
Speaker 1: would have never happened. So he was glad to play ball.
Speaker 1: But they didn't see it that way.
Speaker 2: And I'm being very honest and very understanding of them.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the members of Turtles want. I
Speaker 2: can only do what the lawyer was saying.
Speaker 1: So you guys never spoke to them personally, or never.
Speaker 2: Spoke to them personally at them, This is just what
Speaker 2: lawyer was saying. Maybe they weren't even involved. Even in
Speaker 2: hindsight looking at it, I'm sure like they weren't heavily
Speaker 2: involved in this is like it could have been the
Speaker 2: record company making sure that the lawyers did with they
Speaker 2: was supposed to do.
Speaker 1: Dude, Why why was I know, never ever released in
Speaker 1: the United States as a single. Because when the smoke clears,
Speaker 1: when people talk about three ft hind and rising, the
Speaker 1: first thing they mentioned, even before Haulling notes, but even
Speaker 1: before the sketches and all that stuff is oh my god,
Speaker 1: the rymen over Steely Dan. I fucking loved, Like, how
Speaker 1: come you guys never released that here, only in Europe.
Speaker 2: It was a Tommy Boy that was the label's decision.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like I don't know if they felt
Speaker 2: like the album was run out of steam. I mean
Speaker 2: even by the time we did Buddy, you know, and
Speaker 2: we did this remix to Buddy that just ignited a
Speaker 2: whole other level of what it could be. But I
Speaker 2: loved that, I know. I mean, I'm being honest. I produced,
Speaker 2: I know, so I would have loved to be what
Speaker 2: it needed to be in the States, but we definitely
Speaker 2: saw when we would performing what it would be there,
Speaker 2: and I think Tommy Boy led with that understanding as well,
Speaker 2: and that's why they only did it there. But I agree,
Speaker 2: I would have loved to see that a release. But
Speaker 2: if I am to be very honest, after having say
Speaker 2: No go and didn't come with, I know, I think
Speaker 2: that even we was at a point where it was like, Yo,
Speaker 2: we're losing anyone who looks like this, you know, we
Speaker 2: need we need Buddy like we That's I think that's
Speaker 2: where it was even for us.
Speaker 1: Okay, has jj fad ever responded to Daycratic, No.
Speaker 2: Not at all. I mean, we did a lot of
Speaker 2: shows with them, and it was the nicest girls and
Speaker 2: funny enough. Even at the hip hop joint that you
Speaker 2: were involved in. You know, we spoke with them and yeah, man,
Speaker 2: we used to see them a lot back in the day,
Speaker 2: even just being around n w A and them. Nah,
Speaker 2: I mean they was really cool with us. We was
Speaker 2: really cool with them. I don never think they saw
Speaker 2: it as a disc and we we didn't. We did
Speaker 2: definitely even meet it as a disc.
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't see it as a disc, but
Speaker 1: I mean it's definitely referential.
Speaker 2: To Supersonic, definitely right.
Speaker 1: So Tommy Boy would often go heavy on the like
Speaker 1: quirky contest things like guess that sample for whatever? Did
Speaker 1: anyone ever win that ship? And what was the prize?
Speaker 2: I don't know that, I'm being honest. I don't think
Speaker 2: they It's almost like and I remember being in meetings
Speaker 2: and in that particular meeting in Tom and Tom's like,
Speaker 2: no one's gonna guess this pass, no one's gonna guess it.
Speaker 2: I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think they were off for like a thousand bucks,
Speaker 1: like I guess no.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I went like for a good two hours, I went
Speaker 1: through my dad's entire record collection, like I'm gonna find
Speaker 1: this ship and I didn't.
Speaker 2: Like you know, and it's funny because, like you said
Speaker 2: in today's time or you even if you scroll back,
Speaker 2: I don't know, fifteen years like you got everyone who
Speaker 2: will be like, yo, it's this is that nah? Like
Speaker 2: back then, no one knew that?
Speaker 1: Okay, so can you please tell us? I mean, I
Speaker 1: know it's probably just to be silly, and I know
Speaker 1: it wasn't any logic behind it, but the overkill of
Speaker 1: Slick Rick's voice as sort of the connecting factor of
Speaker 1: day La Souls Dead with his entire like lotty dotty
Speaker 1: ending thing, like what was the genesis of the obsession?
Speaker 1: And was that sample just always on standby when you
Speaker 1: wanted to Was it like on the sk one, just
Speaker 1: like in case someone wanted to use it?
Speaker 2: It was pretty much I mean, like I'm being honest,
Speaker 2: pretty much. It was just like we knew, like after
Speaker 2: maybe the second time, it was just like, Yo, this
Speaker 2: should be out. This would be funny if it just
Speaker 2: be out the album and and you just Paul has
Speaker 2: that Sentius to laugh like, Yo, this is this is
Speaker 2: so stupid. This is be stupid. We gotta figure out
Speaker 2: another place to put it, and so where it would
Speaker 2: naturally feel right, we would do it. And so I
Speaker 2: remember when Dave did it at the end of Oh
Speaker 2: I Went, He was like, yo, merch, do it at
Speaker 2: the end of your ride. Do it at the end
Speaker 2: your run to the biddy to lashon, Like I feel
Speaker 2: like this is yo, man. We were just.
Speaker 1: So that that wasn't added in mastering or whatever like
Speaker 1: that was oh oh go.
Speaker 2: Right there in the studio.
Speaker 1: Although yeah, okay, just for those who don't know, what
Speaker 1: is the significance behind the title of you guys being plugs, Well.
Speaker 2: Plugs started only from a fans We had to single
Speaker 2: called plug tuning, and so with me being the one
Speaker 2: saying plug one, Dave saying plug two, it wasn't that
Speaker 2: wasn't anything by design. It was just like this we
Speaker 2: wanted to start the record off on something, and that
Speaker 2: was just even when Mace used to cut the record
Speaker 2: as a routine, because you gotta remember plug tuning, it
Speaker 2: was just a routine. We was also like the children
Speaker 2: of like you know, the cold Crush, the Dougie Fresh
Speaker 2: to slick Ricks. So we would up tuning routine in
Speaker 2: the house and like instead of being like one two
Speaker 2: one two. We'd be like plugged one, plug two, like
Speaker 2: to just routine plug tuning, got it. So I just
Speaker 2: happened to be the one saying plug one. Dave was
Speaker 2: the one saying plug two got it. By the time
Speaker 2: we made a record out of it performed it live.
Speaker 2: We performed it live for the first time at Stetso
Speaker 2: Sonic's release party, and from that that night, people was
Speaker 2: saying to me, yo, plug one, I saw you the
Speaker 2: other day and Dave was Plugged two. So the people
Speaker 2: who saw us named us those names.
Speaker 1: Was, by the way, who came up with the name Dale.
Speaker 2: I sold it was me and Dave because I wanted,
Speaker 2: you know, when we're just trying to think of names.
Speaker 2: I came to Dave was like, yo, I think we
Speaker 2: should call ourselves from the soul, and I gave him
Speaker 2: the whole reason behind it. I was like, I think
Speaker 2: everything we do is from our heart and soul, and
Speaker 2: I think it could be really dope, like from the soul,
Speaker 2: and Dave was like very understanding. I could see Knye
Speaker 2: in his face.
Speaker 1: He was like, nah, mersc is he the king of
Speaker 1: He's the king of no like he.
Speaker 2: Was like but when he listened to what I was saying.
Speaker 2: He was like, look, the meaning behind it is dope.
Speaker 2: He was like, but he was like, from the soul
Speaker 2: it doesn't sound catchy enough, like why don't you stay
Speaker 2: instead of from the say Deyla. And I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm with it. And it was that simple, and that's
Speaker 2: how it became instead of from the soul, day Lah Soul.
Speaker 1: Usually, the last songs worked on albums wind up being
Speaker 1: singles or like a pivotal song. What was the last
Speaker 1: song worked on for three f im Rising?
Speaker 2: The last song was living in a Full Time era
Speaker 2: because we were already And it's crazy that I can't
Speaker 2: even tell you what the last song before that, because
Speaker 2: the only reason why that became the last song is
Speaker 2: that we heard We were very confident in the album.
Speaker 2: We loved the album, We love what we had did
Speaker 2: with this, we love this the work we had produced
Speaker 2: with Paul. But when we heard the Adventures of Slick Rick,
Speaker 2: we were shook. We was like, Yo, how is our
Speaker 2: album going to beat this album? Like it not even
Speaker 2: beat it. We just thought like live up to this.
Speaker 2: So I was like, yo, I think we need something else.
Speaker 2: I just and we love the song Licked the Balls
Speaker 2: by by him on that album. We was like, yo,
Speaker 2: we need something else, and I remember this, kept telling
Speaker 2: Dave like yo, I think I got something. And then
Speaker 2: I went in and put together the samples for Living
Speaker 2: in the Full Time Era. This is a recorder got.
Speaker 1: That last right in light of you guys getting your
Speaker 1: masters back and re releasing all the records again. We
Speaker 1: can hear the adjustments having to be made on three
Speaker 1: feet high and rising for a lot of those songs,
Speaker 1: did you have to use the original reels to mix
Speaker 1: all over again from scratch? Or I'm only asking because
Speaker 1: I think on Oh Freedom of Speak, it sounded way
Speaker 1: clearer and like brighter. So for some of those songs
Speaker 1: you had to get the reels and remix them from scratch.
Speaker 2: We definitely got the reels and we did our best,
Speaker 2: because at first we did have a conversation with ourselves
Speaker 2: as saying like should we like mix them, mix them
Speaker 2: or should we preserve some level of it feeling like
Speaker 2: it did, so we had to talk with ourselves. But yeah,
Speaker 2: basically we definitely tried to clean it up a bit,
Speaker 2: but not.
Speaker 1: Like I think the sample should be louder, and I
Speaker 1: always wanted to fix my last verse in.
Speaker 2: He was like, Yo, we can't start doing that. We
Speaker 2: can't think with our twenty at that time, twenty twenty
Speaker 2: four or twenty twenty three. Mind, we preserve what was
Speaker 2: made in nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1: It was really okay. So I want to ask the
Speaker 1: we hate the song question? Now in retrospect, do you
Speaker 1: feel as though you guys, and I say this in
Speaker 1: heavy air quotes, overreacted in rejecting what was clearly working
Speaker 1: for you guys in the late eighties and early nineties, Like, look,
Speaker 1: thirty years for me, the industry since ninety four, you know,
Speaker 1: I wonder if the resistance to mainstream and look, I
Speaker 1: went through twice with music and movies, like the second
Speaker 1: it starts and you're like, ah, it's too much. I
Speaker 1: wonder if the resistance to mainstream success and the kind
Speaker 1: of intense confrontations that arose from it was justified considering
Speaker 1: that you're pretty much entertaining the same demographics to this day,
Speaker 1: are you not? Okay? So how jarring was it? Because
Speaker 1: I do remember a period up and right up until
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four you guys spoke about it a lot
Speaker 1: on like de la Soula is dead and especially on
Speaker 1: Blue Mind State. I know that Cypress Hill probably felt
Speaker 1: it the worst with like suddenly like the mainstream hip hops,
Speaker 1: like ah man they ca it went pop down, all
Speaker 1: those things. But how jarring did it feel to have
Speaker 1: that massive level of seeing success like at the height
Speaker 1: of daylight madness? What did it feel like?
Speaker 2: The success itself was a blessing because I think you
Speaker 2: your group understands the level of making your bones traveling
Speaker 2: throughout the world. So just even in traveling you saw it.
Speaker 2: You saw people in these different countries who didn't have
Speaker 2: English as the first language, and you had these people
Speaker 2: who actually learn English and learning your music and being
Speaker 2: in love with your music. So we saw how many
Speaker 2: people it did touch. We weren't just stuck, I guess
Speaker 2: for a lack of better way of saying it stuck
Speaker 2: and just living in the States and only understanding what
Speaker 2: happened in the States. So we saw that as a
Speaker 2: blessing of what our music and how we could touch people,
Speaker 2: what our music can do. But still, I guess the
Speaker 2: success of Yo you could be on Yo, you could
Speaker 2: be on top of the pops. You Hey Yo, Bennie Hey,
Speaker 2: Bennie bedeena Hey, it wasn't because we knew Bennie and
Speaker 2: Benny would hang out with Russell, like, Yo, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe you should try out for this TV show that
Speaker 2: I'm trying to put together. Why don't you shoot your
Speaker 2: shot for this thing we got called Fresh Prince of Bellet.
Speaker 2: It was just too much. It was like, yo, we
Speaker 2: don't want to do all that. We want to make music.
Speaker 2: So I think us in our young minds was thinking
Speaker 2: like all that extra stuff was too much as long
Speaker 2: as the success was there with us doing our artistry,
Speaker 2: That's what it was. Even by the time we got
Speaker 2: to like you said, but low mind state and you
Speaker 2: know now it's normal business. But at that time, you know,
Speaker 2: like ahause, so niggas got hold up a sprit can
Speaker 2: and rhyme like it was just like, oh man, you
Speaker 2: selling out, you know what I'm saying, Like that's just
Speaker 2: what it was. Then you didn't understand this branding thing.
Speaker 1: See, I feel like I said yes to everything that
Speaker 1: you guys would have said no to. And even now
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, like did I make the right choice or
Speaker 1: did I not make the right choice? Like you know
Speaker 1: that to be seen.
Speaker 2: But I may say as well because I can be
Speaker 2: honest and looking back in hindsight, we bitch and moan
Speaker 2: about a few things because in the blessings you were receiving, yo, man,
Speaker 2: I mean were just burnt out. We were like everywhere
Speaker 2: we were doing things like this three Fi and Rising
Speaker 2: album has set us on this path where we couldn't
Speaker 2: land at an airport. You do interviews at the airport,
Speaker 2: but then you didn't get into the car, and then
Speaker 2: you're being interviewed by this big magazine that you're gonna
Speaker 2: be on the front cover of from the airport to
Speaker 2: the hotel, and then when you get out at the hotel,
Speaker 2: then you go into this banquet room and you have
Speaker 2: this press conference, then you got to go to soundcheck,
Speaker 2: but do an interview. It was all that we were
Speaker 2: just tired of that shit got very honest. That's just
Speaker 2: really that had a lot to do with it was
Speaker 2: like this, Okay, so this is what you got to
Speaker 2: be to do to be mainstream, Like you know, we
Speaker 2: just want to go into the studio and make records,
Speaker 2: toll whatever else come with that. I think that's really
Speaker 2: where we got burnt out from.
Speaker 1: Okay, where is Jeff And why wasn't Mac Daddy on
Speaker 1: the left or Brainwash follower included on the three feet reissues.
Speaker 2: I think it's just I think us alone a reservoir.
Speaker 2: We just needed to tag out a bit because of
Speaker 2: the fact that there's a lot of samples that weren't
Speaker 2: taken care of and that we took care of. And
Speaker 2: then it's kind of like, okay, and then we're up
Speaker 2: for another round. Okay, so let's look to another round
Speaker 2: of Okay, these songs that were these great songs that
Speaker 2: y'all put together on these twelve inches, let's get to it.
Speaker 2: And I mean we're going to get to it.
Speaker 1: So you guys are fully aware that we're like waiting
Speaker 1: for the rest of the three feet high Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: just wanted to make sure you knew we were waiting
Speaker 1: for that, not just like they don't care.
Speaker 2: Okay. Jeff is a family guy. He just lives at
Speaker 2: home with his family.
Speaker 1: I mean, what it is Jeff, now, like he's got
Speaker 1: to be in his forties now.
Speaker 2: Right easily, I mean maybe still late thirties. I want
Speaker 2: to say.
Speaker 1: Maybe besides mac Daddy, were there any other songs with him?
Speaker 1: Rhyman on it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, was a part of this crew. Dave was going
Speaker 2: to do Wow and I can't remember the name, which
Speaker 2: is absolutely horrible. They put together a dope ass demo
Speaker 2: and Jeff had changed his name to Philly Black. He
Speaker 2: was in Philly one night drunk too much and blacked out,
Speaker 2: and then his name became Philly. Jeff is Philly Black
Speaker 2: on our Bionics album. We have a song called the
Speaker 2: Sauce and that's what Jeff so, Jeff is Philly Black
Speaker 2: on that album. But I think that, yeah, Jeff Romin's
Speaker 2: ass off on that album.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that was him, Okay, all right, I
Speaker 1: didn't know.
Speaker 2: It's this demo that Dave put together, and I'm gonna
Speaker 2: remember after an interview, which is horrible, like they put
Speaker 2: together this collective. It was Jeff Philly Black, it was Dave,
Speaker 2: and it was Divine who rhymes on pawn Star on
Speaker 2: a Biones album, someone else, and it was just a
Speaker 2: bunch of really really amazing music. But it never and
Speaker 2: then it was supposed to come out funny enough on
Speaker 2: Tommy Boy and it just I don't know what.
Speaker 1: Okay, you guys are the king of the side group stories.
Speaker 1: Literally every time I talk to you, you talk about
Speaker 1: well we had a group with this group and that
Speaker 1: group and that group. Like how many side groups were
Speaker 1: there in the native tongue speare.
Speaker 2: You're talking about the Fabulous Fleas which was me tip
Speaker 2: Juju Africa Kids on ZENI Fave which was Dave Uh,
Speaker 2: Sammy B and Mike G. I think someone else was
Speaker 2: in that with them. We had something that we was
Speaker 2: going to call the Hoods, which was just all of
Speaker 2: everyone in Native but it was going to call it
Speaker 2: the Hoods. Yeah, we were just I mean, we was
Speaker 2: just very very much taken out of the Parliament funker delic.
Speaker 1: Where the Violators ever supposed to be an actual group
Speaker 1: or you just they were just the crew.
Speaker 2: No, that was just the crew. There was just the crew.
Speaker 2: It wasn't really supposed to be not that I know,
Speaker 2: they weren't really supposed to be rhyming.
Speaker 1: I got it, okay, Well, I mean they were just
Speaker 1: always given equal billings. I just never knew. So obviously
Speaker 1: the sound of Daylight changed on the Day Lost Soul's
Speaker 1: Dead album and most notably the musical backdrop. So what
Speaker 1: was what was the difference between the access the access
Speaker 1: to records that you used on three ft hind and Rising,
Speaker 1: compared to the access to records that you got with
Speaker 1: day Lot soul was dead. Like in other words, how
Speaker 1: would the records acquired for three feet High and Rising?
Speaker 1: Whereas I'm certain now that you're touring the world and
Speaker 1: you get to shop, you.
Speaker 2: Know, every record used on three feet was just records
Speaker 2: that were from our parents' collection. So plug tuning, that
Speaker 2: was my fatherst record, Jennifer, that was my fatherst record,
Speaker 2: you know, like whatever I mean. Paul was probably the
Speaker 2: only one at that time already being in stead, but
Speaker 2: he was still using like his own record collection. But
Speaker 2: I think it was still records that he acquired on
Speaker 2: his own, or he may have gotten from his bigger brother,
Speaker 2: his older brother, and maybe some records he may have
Speaker 2: gotten being on the road any But the majority of
Speaker 2: records were just from our home, from myself, Dave and Mays.
Speaker 1: So for the first generation of like cret digging in
Speaker 1: a non bitbot of flashway, how heavy was the environment
Speaker 1: back in the dawn of the nineties, Like for our
Speaker 1: listeners that listening, you know, there was a probably the
Speaker 1: Bible of Breakbeats, which was a compilation called Ultimate Beats
Speaker 1: and Breaks, which every rapper worth their grain of salt.
Speaker 1: Between that classic era of like eighty five to ninety,
Speaker 1: we're pretty much using this. It was like Wikipedia or
Speaker 1: AI for break beats, but it was always the same,
Speaker 1: like sixty songs. And what made Daylight notable was that
Speaker 1: they colored outside the lines, and you know, it was
Speaker 1: a period of like discovery, like oh the parts of
Speaker 1: the record collection that you ignore in your parents' house, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's some stuff on there too. But for me, I
Speaker 1: feel like day La Soul Is Dead was the first
Speaker 1: what we call like the digging in the crates era.
Speaker 1: I'll say ninety nine percent of that record was the
Speaker 1: you know, like we didn't know about evil Vibrations sample
Speaker 1: or you know, or even it's Lou Donaldson's version of
Speaker 1: It's Your Thing or any of those things. But then
Speaker 1: there would be some moments where I was wondering, were
Speaker 1: you trying to even back then, I was wondering where
Speaker 1: you're trolling this, like using funky drummer on Uzable on
Speaker 1: the fade out like it worked for me, But then
Speaker 1: I always wonder like, were you guys being sarcastic or
Speaker 1: like by that point everyone played it to the ground
Speaker 1: and yet you used it on the fade out, So
Speaker 1: I always wondered was that by design? And also Afro
Speaker 1: connections at a high five. Nobody in their right mind
Speaker 1: would use mustache era James Brown for anything. And it's
Speaker 1: almost like you guys chose the worst James Brown song ever,
Speaker 1: which is for goodness sakes, take a look at those cakes,
Speaker 1: which no self respecting rapper whatever rhyme over, and yet
Speaker 1: y'all did it. Can you explain the lostic like in
Speaker 1: the way you're smiling, I feel like I just uncover
Speaker 1: some shits correctness, Like why did y'all put funky drummer
Speaker 1: on udles of os when it didn't need it? I
Speaker 1: love the way you used it, but it didn't need it,
Speaker 1: but yet you did it.
Speaker 2: Why? Well, just like how you said that was the
Speaker 2: mantra that Prince Paul made sure we you know, learned
Speaker 2: by which was it really worked? He said, yo, just
Speaker 2: try everything because if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
Speaker 2: Don't cancel out any idea. So at some point Dave
Speaker 2: has already nailed I mean, that was the first record
Speaker 2: that Dave led in production, was Oodles of Olds, and
Speaker 2: it was just absolutely amazing. But then he was like yo,
Speaker 2: I have these other ideas, like he tried to add
Speaker 2: on and it's not in there. One day I can
Speaker 2: let you hear it, like the beginning of Oodles of Olds.
Speaker 2: He started it all he doing like Frankie Beverly, going,
Speaker 2: I gotta make sure I'm wrong. We was like, why
Speaker 2: would you do that? And he said, yo, I gotta
Speaker 2: try it, and then he tried it, but we was
Speaker 2: like nah. And then I think, I want to say,
Speaker 2: Mace wanted to add in the funky drummers, so maybe
Speaker 2: it could be like if we dropped out the beat
Speaker 2: we already had and that could be in there and
Speaker 2: that mind you. I'm like, that's not gonna work. But
Speaker 2: then we tried it was like, all right, maybe you
Speaker 2: could use it at some point. But then, luckily enough,
Speaker 2: it wounded just being something used at the end, like
Speaker 2: because it was almost more for the because we almost
Speaker 2: wanted to throw on the like that, and so yeah,
Speaker 2: it wound up being something like we had fun, like yo,
Speaker 2: let's just let it ride at the end.
Speaker 1: But I mean, may I thought you were trying to
Speaker 1: make a grand statement, like every time I hear that song,
Speaker 1: the way that my brain was thinking was like, oh, Okay,
Speaker 1: I see what they're doing. They're like sweeping the old
Speaker 1: guys out, like all you old rappers that used funky drummer,
Speaker 1: We're flushing you down the toilet, you know, on the
Speaker 1: fade out. It just made no sense, but I was
Speaker 1: always obsessed with that shit, okay nah.
Speaker 2: And then even when Mace Mace Mace did he put
Speaker 2: together Apple Connections and like I just remember him playing
Speaker 2: that for us, and we was like.
Speaker 3: This is again amazing, Like we was like this is
Speaker 3: the hardest shit ever, and like it almost sounded some
Speaker 3: shit people think Dale I shouldn't be rhyming on it,
Speaker 3: and I was like, that's why we got a rome
Speaker 3: on this, and like Dave amediately was like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should do it like on some exploitation ship,
Speaker 2: like I don't know, some like yeah like afrol Connections,
Speaker 2: and I was like yo whatever like anything they would
Speaker 2: say like all right, cool, let's try it. And so yeah, man,
Speaker 2: that was just wow.
Speaker 1: So like Afro Connections was a if we were like
Speaker 1: Heart Street niggas, like this is what we were sounding.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, it almost like y'all, y'all like look.
Speaker 1: In your mind, you thought like n wa wou rhand that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was kind of like definitely like it
Speaker 2: was almost like through this idea that Dave came up with,
Speaker 2: it allowed us to be hard, like, Okay, we can
Speaker 2: like exercise this is what we're doing, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Like it allowed you to like play this out. Yeah. Man,
Speaker 2: we had a lot of fun making up.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm gonna start with yes or no? Will
Speaker 1: you ever tell air quote? That story in the air quote?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: What a top you know about the the Oodle's Afro story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm telling for the first time ever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you talking about what I think you're talking about,
Speaker 2: who's doing that for me? Yeah? I mean should we
Speaker 2: grown now?
Speaker 1: And Kevin Mercer, can you please tell me about the
Speaker 1: story of Afro Connections at a high five? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I can't believe you're about to tell the story.
Speaker 2: So the beginning of Afro Connections where we say like
Speaker 2: this is dedicated to all those horror core acts you know,
Speaker 2: the dudes is fill the fuck off, right. That was
Speaker 2: us being upset and mad at run DMCs of O's
Speaker 2: at the time when we was doing, you know, working
Speaker 2: on our album Oodles of O's. Actually he was something
Speaker 2: that Dave put together for Run DMC, because we were
Speaker 2: told by you know, we had the same management, and
Speaker 2: we was told about like yo, like Russ, you know,
Speaker 2: we want these guys, they need some music. And Dave
Speaker 2: was honored to try to put something together. And then
Speaker 2: from what we understood, d actually like what Dave had did.
Speaker 2: But I think Run wasn't with it, Like it was
Speaker 2: just kind of like, who is these little niggas trying
Speaker 2: to do something for Run DMC.
Speaker 1: D is going on d is going on the record
Speaker 1: saying how much of a fan.
Speaker 2: He was of you guys, Like, oh, I mean the
Speaker 2: trust me And I'm not even trying to say that
Speaker 2: Run wasn't but Run was just.
Speaker 1: Run back in the nineties. I got this by Run
Speaker 1: go Ahead.
Speaker 2: One would Run and the monument and and now, like
Speaker 2: I'll say, like our first show ever, as I said,
Speaker 2: when we did plug Tune in at the Stetso Sonic Party,
Speaker 2: DMC was in the front row, yes and all we
Speaker 2: was there to do that one song we got off.
Speaker 2: We was like so nervous. After getting off, we went
Speaker 2: in the bathroom to get our composure and we did
Speaker 2: a great job. DMC followed us into the bathrooms, like, Yo,
Speaker 2: get the fuck back on and do it again. That's
Speaker 2: so amazing. It's like he was just always such a
Speaker 2: cheerleader to us, and Jay wants to and like I said,
Speaker 2: anytime we met Ron, he was really dope to us
Speaker 2: as well. But we knew Run was run you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying at that attitude, like no one is dope.
Speaker 2: It in me in and shit, we looked up to it.
Speaker 2: We wanted to be like running them in our mirrors
Speaker 2: as well. So anyway, I guess when Dave tried to
Speaker 2: give the beat to them, so that was the whole
Speaker 2: focus of us of oo was the way they did
Speaker 2: the udles of oza No. He saw it as like
Speaker 2: how DMC would have to echoed ozia no No da
Speaker 2: da da da da da da da da da da
Speaker 2: da da. He was trying to do it on some
Speaker 2: run DMC shit. They didn't take it because run distant,
Speaker 2: but like super distant. We wound up putting it on
Speaker 2: our which I was cool with. I was like, Yo,
Speaker 2: this shit is dope. Anyway, we can do it for
Speaker 2: our short but and being mad and cryptic, we did
Speaker 2: the whole ship connections.
Speaker 1: Got it okay, they got us.
Speaker 2: Back because I think they realized it and through Afros
Speaker 2: they can't. Yeah, because on one of the Afro albums,
Speaker 2: Jay and them they did it. They did like some
Speaker 2: skit where I think they use us saying something like
Speaker 2: something and then they and it's like some guns going off. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we were just young. We loved Run DMC. We were
Speaker 2: just hurt that they You know, it's one thing to
Speaker 2: be like you just don't want to use it, right
Speaker 2: how Run just kind of dissed us about it, And
Speaker 2: I'm sure you run about it today and Run wouldn't
Speaker 2: even remember.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to ask this next question, but
Speaker 1: one of the recurring themes that I always have on
Speaker 1: this podcast is that pioneers really just get the glory
Speaker 1: of saying that they did it first, but it's always
Speaker 1: the person that comes second that gets the glory from it,
Speaker 1: and the pioneer never gets the credit. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: at one point to me, it just felt like a
Speaker 1: running joke. But when you hear songs like when you
Speaker 1: hear Dear Mama or Ghetto Red Hot or Mary Jay's
Speaker 1: Be Happy remix or how I Could Just Kill a
Speaker 1: Man or a Funky Child or float on what Up
Speaker 1: Pete or crucial conflicts, Hey in the middle of the
Speaker 1: barn or Warren G's this DJ or portraits Here we go. Shit, yo,
Speaker 1: I'll be distortion in a stag by the roots, the youngsters,
Speaker 1: you know, doing your little ego trip paper ripping verse
Speaker 1: or even aero codes for Ludacris. I joke, but I'm
Speaker 1: not joking. I think set a Drift Memory Bliss is
Speaker 1: the greatest daylight soul song that y'all never made, you
Speaker 1: know what it wasn't even until maybe two weeks into
Speaker 1: what they do that someone was like, oh, you guys
Speaker 1: just in the daylight video and I was like, no,
Speaker 1: oh god, we did. Like I'm dealing with the biggie
Speaker 1: part of it, but I didn't even get to the
Speaker 1: daylight part of it. You guys literally have done things first.
Speaker 1: It's almost like I listen to y'all to see what's
Speaker 1: going to be the next big hit. But at one
Speaker 1: point did it just become like yeah, of course, like
Speaker 1: to hear all of your ideas and musicality and samples
Speaker 1: get reused and they become like actual, big, gigantic hits
Speaker 1: for these artists that do it.
Speaker 2: I mean basically from Ludacris doing the Era Your Coach record.
Speaker 2: We never felt like, oh man, he's trying to repurpose
Speaker 2: our idea and he got to hear from it. We
Speaker 2: never would look at things like that. We never would
Speaker 2: look at Mary doing her record and using say the
Speaker 2: Dollar bill Yard record the way we use it with
Speaker 2: the backwards eight away going. We we were like homefe
Speaker 2: because it's no different than how we took different things
Speaker 2: and used it from people we loved and we respected,
Speaker 2: and we just felt like, yo, it's a homage to them.
Speaker 2: So nah man, we never really thought of things like
Speaker 2: that at all, you know.
Speaker 1: So one of the the unsung stars or heroes of
Speaker 1: well we already talked about it was Sean aka I'm
Speaker 1: and Joy on Biddy's not many. Every time someone's in
Speaker 1: my car and Biddies comes on, I had to tell
Speaker 1: them that, uh, Shashawana Marisol like Shashana is is is
Speaker 1: the girl from l else doing it and she had
Speaker 1: singles on and all and stuff like how did you
Speaker 1: guys back when her name was am and Joy, how
Speaker 1: did you coming across her?
Speaker 2: I mean, Sean was just around us. She was hanging
Speaker 2: around us at that point her and Sammy Bee was
Speaker 2: messing around. I mean, oh okay, So I mean she
Speaker 2: was just around. She would just be in the studio.
Speaker 2: So like.
Speaker 1: Her being an MC EMC or she just had a
Speaker 1: really good voice in delivery.
Speaker 2: Nah she was an MC. Okay, she was really.
Speaker 1: Cause that's also Hermoni's that's her voice where that at
Speaker 1: that's her right, Okay, okay.
Speaker 2: She had a great voice. She could ram my ass off.
Speaker 2: We were already hearing stuff she was doing because she
Speaker 2: would just being around the studio and letting us hear
Speaker 2: rhyme's and whatever. So Sean was just in the studio,
Speaker 2: like just in the studio in Calliope. So once I
Speaker 2: came up with the idea and being like yo, all right,
Speaker 2: Dave did his idea of Biddy's his he acted out
Speaker 2: where him and our friend Wade comes in deal with
Speaker 2: the people who work behind the counter. I want to
Speaker 2: have him on an exchange between the girl, but the
Speaker 2: girl run and I work. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: I'll be the one working at Berkeley King And so
Speaker 2: I was like yo. Immediately, I was like yo, Lashawn
Speaker 2: would kill this. She has the right voice. She can
Speaker 2: write some shit to roast me. And then when I
Speaker 2: told her the idea, she was like, I'm in. And
Speaker 2: when I start hearing a rhymes, I start getting scared.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh shit, she's gonna kill me. I said, Yo,
Speaker 2: you all right with this? She's like, yeah, I'm cool
Speaker 2: with that.
Speaker 1: How does that work? I never interviewed a rapper MC
Speaker 1: as far as like, I never understood how group structure work.
Speaker 1: I've only known solo EMC's here's my sixteen. So how
Speaker 1: did that back and forth get constructed?
Speaker 2: That exchange? It had to really be kind of like
Speaker 2: it couldn't be just me saying, look, lashawan, I rhymed, here,
Speaker 2: this is space for you. I rhyme here, this is
Speaker 2: space for you. Listen to everything I said and answer back.
Speaker 2: It was more like, nah, let me do this first.
Speaker 2: You started off, you say something, and we talked.
Speaker 1: About it, and you respond to it right, right.
Speaker 2: So we talked about how it should go, and then
Speaker 2: so then she she had her parts and I was like, jo,
Speaker 2: that's dope, okay, so let me respond to it this way,
Speaker 2: and then she will now respond to what I say,
Speaker 2: like or even if she had something she thought was cool,
Speaker 2: she would change a bar there to make it fit
Speaker 2: better with how I ended, how I responded. So we
Speaker 2: was like on the spot.
Speaker 1: Doing a lot of Yeah, that's that's amazing, man. That
Speaker 1: was That was such a dope moment. How did Black
Speaker 1: Sheep get into the native tongue spirit?
Speaker 2: It was through Mike G whether it was and it
Speaker 2: was the same with Money and everyone else. There was
Speaker 2: never no audition, you know, to have someone in someone
Speaker 2: saying yo, or the court like okay, I'm gonna It
Speaker 2: was just really like, yo, I think this person could
Speaker 2: be dope. And it was never really no pushback. So
Speaker 2: I remember, I remember Mike G coming to the studio.
Speaker 2: He always called me Noose Yo, Noose Yo. It's these
Speaker 2: two dudes, man, we've been we've been messing with they
Speaker 2: called Black Sheep, and he explained who they are and
Speaker 2: and and I had already saw long before rolled them
Speaker 2: in red. He's like, yeah, you know, Yo, I'm telling
Speaker 2: you they're going to be really dope. We're thinking about
Speaker 2: they could be a really dope fit for natives, like
Speaker 2: they're they're different. But I was like cool, it was
Speaker 2: like got it, you know what I'm saying. And I
Speaker 2: think it was everyone else the same way.
Speaker 1: Wait, you just said something that just so wait a minute, on, Jenny,
Speaker 1: you're not talking about rope. Noos is self referential. You
Speaker 1: mean she said let's try it in the bathroom. But
Speaker 1: the news was way above the sick you were talking
Speaker 1: about you as impossible. Oh god, okay, I'm sorry, bro.
Speaker 1: I thought you was going to the real dark.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, let's talking about I got news hanging. No.
Speaker 1: I thought you was some like I was saying, Yo,
Speaker 1: there's some dark sexual feticism ship going on with Nooses,
Speaker 1: And I was like, for real, I was like, yo,
Speaker 1: is he talking about asphyxiation?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Pasta news not me. She was saying, Yo, let's try
Speaker 1: to the bathroom and hear some rope and let me.
Speaker 2: In the bathroom of a st No.
Speaker 1: Oh god, but I'm sorry, man, Okay, why haven't the
Speaker 1: JB's appeared on three feet or the soul is dead? Besides, like,
Speaker 1: oh wait a minute, they're on, buddy? What am I saying?
Speaker 1: Besides the fanatic of the baseball like, yeah, the Jungle
Speaker 1: Brothers just fade into the background.
Speaker 2: I mean it was just always about we. I mean,
Speaker 2: especially by the time we got to Balloon. It was really,
Speaker 2: really about yo, who is the right instrument vocally for
Speaker 2: a record? You know, like gotcha? They felt like, Yo, man,
Speaker 2: I feel like Surety should be on a record, so
Speaker 2: on the record, say no, like the entire record, like
Speaker 2: her voice, like if it's just an a like Yo,
Speaker 2: that's dope cool. So yeah, I mean like it was
Speaker 2: the same with Jungle if it was just nothing that
Speaker 2: we were working on that presented itself where yo, let's
Speaker 2: get them on this. We just didn't do it. The
Speaker 2: same with Trump, you know, like cause I don't really
Speaker 2: what tribe ain't on that record. Maybe they're on a remix.
Speaker 2: While I had when I had q to saying dig
Speaker 2: the sounds coming fuck plug one on the Break of
Speaker 2: Dawn remake, it just seemed like Black Sheep just worked out.
Speaker 2: They was just always around. But mind you the crazy thing,
Speaker 2: it's like Africa that was in the studio. They would
Speaker 2: be around every now and then and I'm playing for them,
Speaker 2: but it just wasn't the right record that.
Speaker 1: Does the producer of the song for who the sessions
Speaker 1: for is the person that initiates you should get on this,
Speaker 1: you should get on this or people have been like, yo,
Speaker 1: I want to be on this and.
Speaker 2: That kind of came a little bit later, but definitely
Speaker 2: was about us saying who should get on something or
Speaker 2: you know, even Tip like, yo, Merse, I want you
Speaker 2: to try something on this this scenario record. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: after I hadn't heard it already put together, and I'm like, wow,
Speaker 2: really like this shit is done. It's like it is
Speaker 2: what it is. And then he wanted me. He tried
Speaker 2: me on something else that he wanted me and Lord
Speaker 2: Finess on called bus how you buss? How you bus? How?
Speaker 2: I ain't trying to hear that? So I think it's
Speaker 2: called I ain't trying to hear that, and I was like, cool,
Speaker 2: let me let me try something to that. So it
Speaker 2: was just really that. But yeah, we would get to
Speaker 2: a point where like in each other sessions and hearing
Speaker 2: stuff like because when Tip did mister Mohammed Africa was
Speaker 2: really making him uncomfortable because He's like, Yo, this should
Speaker 2: be the this should be like the native record, this
Speaker 2: should be like we and this is this idea we
Speaker 2: had called the Hoods should this record? And Tip was like, nah,
Speaker 2: like I want this to be for Ali, I want
Speaker 2: this to be called mister Muhammad, gotcha?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you know, I see all right. So look
Speaker 1: how challenging was it to craft the final verse of
Speaker 1: Millie Pulled a Pistol on Santa, because the way that
Speaker 1: you navigate such a heavy fiend song, which you know,
Speaker 1: is about a daughter defending herself against an abusive father,
Speaker 1: and you still have to maintain suspense. You have to
Speaker 1: bring empathy to the situation. And for me, that versus
Speaker 1: remarkable because this was done in a time in which
Speaker 1: rappers really weren't granting like women agency, like each line,
Speaker 1: the way each line was crafted, and the thing is
Speaker 1: one you're saying it in a rhythmic way in which
Speaker 1: the words have to fit.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: To me, the most crucial line of that is your
Speaker 1: last three lines, which is, you know, Dylan pleaded versity.
Speaker 1: He said it to me to do all the things
Speaker 1: that her mind to couldn't do nothing but cling to,
Speaker 1: which is such a word salad. But that also that
Speaker 1: line gives you empathy for her in a way where
Speaker 1: it's just not like it could have easily been like yo,
Speaker 1: I know this girl around the way and then she
Speaker 1: shot him dead. You know, it could have been like
Speaker 1: fast pegged by Llo cool J. You know what I
Speaker 1: mean she shot him at the head. That's the breaks light.
Speaker 1: Next song, dude, I'm saying fast Pegged by Elo cool
Speaker 1: J was like a minute nineteen seconds pretty much could
Speaker 1: have been the same narrative, but it wound up just
Speaker 1: being more like an intense sketch. But to me, that's
Speaker 1: what I think about when I think about the beauty
Speaker 1: of hip hop storytelling. You have a very short period
Speaker 1: to paint this picture of the song to make it work.
Speaker 1: What was the genesis of that song?
Speaker 2: Well, it's like you said, the title was gained from
Speaker 2: us going into the city. Saw this homeless guy. He
Speaker 2: had a dirty Santa Claus outfit on him in the
Speaker 2: subway station. First words that came to my mind was
Speaker 2: merely pulled a pistol on Sanda. I don't know why,
Speaker 2: but it did, and he was walking next to me.
Speaker 2: I was like, yo, man, that'd be a dope title.
Speaker 2: Because at that point we were just into this writing
Speaker 2: even down titles and then matching the right lyrics or
Speaker 2: story to the title. So I immediately pulled out the
Speaker 2: little padda head in my pocket wrote title down. Paul
Speaker 2: several weeks later, gave us this tape Casette tape up
Speaker 2: this different beats he's working on for us. I heard
Speaker 2: the music I'll stay by. What was that funkadelic?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I was like, Dave, this is merely pulled the pistol
Speaker 2: on Sanda. Just how weeping this this sounds? This is it?
Speaker 2: He was like, got you? Then I married it to
Speaker 2: someone I was very close to was being blested by
Speaker 2: our father and real time got everything and then start
Speaker 2: crafting everything from there. So I mean the story was
Speaker 2: literally happening to someone that was very close to me
Speaker 2: in real time. This is how I felt about how
Speaker 2: fucked up father and I was writing on this. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it was like and I you know, and as you
Speaker 2: eloquently explain in terms of how a writer is supposed
Speaker 2: to put the suspense and lay, I didn't have any
Speaker 2: idea about that outside of loving to read and whatever.
Speaker 2: I just thought like, Okay, this is how I got
Speaker 2: to write this story. And Dave loved what I was
Speaker 2: doing so much. He was like, Mrce, write the whole thing.
Speaker 2: He was like, because what you showed me that for
Speaker 2: your first verse. He was just being honest. He's like,
Speaker 2: I don't know how I would pick it up just
Speaker 2: for it to be just solid. You write the entire
Speaker 2: thing and assigned to me what you want me to say. Cool,
Speaker 2: And so that's what I did. I just kept going,
Speaker 2: kept going. But I knew I wanted it to end abruptly,
Speaker 2: like how a shot will abruptly in your life. But
Speaker 2: I had to fill in from the beginning to end.
Speaker 2: And like you said, it was a challenge to make
Speaker 2: sure that once I was staying in this rhyme style,
Speaker 2: this cadence, my thoughts of how I wanted it to go,
Speaker 2: I had to find the right words for the cadence.
Speaker 1: Dude, I have so many great ideas for shit, but
Speaker 1: I just because my word salad brain, I don't know
Speaker 1: how to sustinctly Treak's the original AI like he knows
Speaker 1: how to widdle words down to make it fit rhythmically,
Speaker 1: you know, And I just never know too.
Speaker 2: Like it's funny, I know, I want to say, y'all
Speaker 2: did it like y'all did the song over and I
Speaker 2: got I remember when it got to this one part
Speaker 2: where I I never fixed it because when I say
Speaker 2: like complete, it was probably like complete when with an accent,
Speaker 2: but I say it so weird complete with ad accent.
Speaker 2: It almost like it sounds like I'm saying complete with
Speaker 2: ad accent, and I'm really saying and an accent. But
Speaker 2: I had to do it in the style okay, you know,
Speaker 2: I know, like people was like, what the hell is
Speaker 2: he saying?
Speaker 1: What is the Renee King story?
Speaker 2: Renee King? She and I mean, bless her heart. I
Speaker 2: couldn't tell you exactly what she did in the music industry,
Speaker 2: but we knew her from like if we were at
Speaker 2: like a seminar, she would be there doing whatever. She
Speaker 2: would you know, a music seminar, she was there, or
Speaker 2: we would come to Philly at whatever show she was there.
Speaker 2: So we knew she was a part of the industry, right.
Speaker 2: But you know she, I mean this point blank, seemed
Speaker 2: like a really nice but little eccentric woman. Yeah, she
Speaker 2: was trying to holler word. So I was just trying
Speaker 2: to like, yeah, you know, I'm young, like eighteen nineteen,
Speaker 2: and she seemed like she was probably like in her thirties.
Speaker 2: I was like, nah, I think so sound sock.
Speaker 1: She was.
Speaker 2: She was definitely an older woman, you know what I
Speaker 2: can hear. So I was just like, nah, I don't
Speaker 2: necessarily want to do that. Some other things in Philly
Speaker 2: I'm looking at right right, well my, but she was
Speaker 2: it's really cool, really nice. But yeah, I mean I
Speaker 2: just thought like in her saying what she said on
Speaker 2: her thing to me, like if she's trying to get
Speaker 2: at me and it's for the music business, because it's
Speaker 2: kind of like I think she got to feel like,
Speaker 2: I think she's trying to holla and I'm gonna use
Speaker 2: this for ringing ring I'm gonna get you with this,
Speaker 2: And that's why I put it in front.
Speaker 1: And she was swine with you guys putting her phone
Speaker 1: number and loved it.
Speaker 2: She kept the same phone number everything. I remember, she
Speaker 2: did an interview and she loved it. She loved it.
Speaker 1: By ninety one, were you guys already over the the
Speaker 1: idea of day La soul, the idea of native tongues
Speaker 1: like whereas like you guys are apposed to be like
Speaker 1: sixteen kids hanging out in boho clothing and head wraps
Speaker 1: and incense and whatever. Were you tired of the idea
Speaker 1: of the boholdness of what we thought as your fan
Speaker 1: base thought native tongues.
Speaker 2: Was well, we as Dayla could have felt that a bit,
Speaker 2: because if you realize that's why we ditched everything from
Speaker 2: three feet That's what Dayla So Dead was all about,
Speaker 2: Like ditching this outer shell that everyone's paying attention to,
Speaker 2: so let alone with the outer shell of natives the
Speaker 2: same way. And Q Tip Ali and all them, they
Speaker 2: was especially five. They was all doing the same thing,
Speaker 2: like all right, okay, I had enough of looking like
Speaker 2: this on this cover, Like I'm putting on this baseball
Speaker 2: hat because this is what I really wear when I'm
Speaker 2: in sint obits or you know what I'm saying. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure like it was. It just kind
Speaker 2: of like became more of like, yo, we got these
Speaker 2: dope ass rhymes, we got these banging ass beats, and
Speaker 2: they're super creative. It was almost like that was more
Speaker 2: of a mantra like gotchak with us when it really
Speaker 2: comes to that, you know, being super creat and we
Speaker 2: can rhyme. We didn't want people to just focus on
Speaker 2: the imagery.
Speaker 1: Normally, you know when you guys rhyme, I still feel
Speaker 1: like I know what you're saying because I can pick
Speaker 1: up like every seventh word. But within focus, I understood
Speaker 1: absolutely everything you spoke of, even to the Funkadelic knee
Speaker 1: deep reference of you know, of me myself and I
Speaker 1: sort of being in the sunset and now this is
Speaker 1: where my life is. So can you explain just the
Speaker 1: whole idea of in Focus, Like, was there really a
Speaker 1: period where it just felt like the plane was landing
Speaker 1: and now the dream was over and now And I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that it's a cynical album, because the thing
Speaker 1: is is that I think maybe this year and listening
Speaker 1: to like the reissue, the woman I never said was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, as much as I talk about three feet
Speaker 1: and Da La Soul's like, really the album that gave
Speaker 1: birth to the roots was Blue Mind State, simply because
Speaker 1: of the musical directions that you guys took. But how
Speaker 1: jarring did that feeling like when I heard him focus?
Speaker 1: That that actually made me depressed, Which it's an upbeat song, well,
Speaker 1: not an upbeat song. It still sounds like a hip
Speaker 1: hop John, But that was the first time where I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, all might not be well in you know,
Speaker 1: Amityville Land or wherever I thought the idea of day
Speaker 1: La Soul being like, talk about just the creation of
Speaker 1: in Focus and the cynicism behind it.
Speaker 2: With my brain at this point, I don't recall who
Speaker 2: came up within focus, It sounds like something Dave would do.
Speaker 2: I came up with the music, okay, but yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean in focus as a theme. Definitely Dave, and definitely
Speaker 2: Dave was at that point because even we had the
Speaker 2: running joke even at that point, like the Way's Dave,
Speaker 2: He's somewhere in Haiti in a tree, Like Dave was
Speaker 2: already this ruined with the fame, the fame aspect of
Speaker 2: it and just what it took to keep it going,
Speaker 2: like you know.
Speaker 1: Let's this, is this why he cut his hair? Is
Speaker 1: this why he like.
Speaker 2: Just trying different things and and crazy enough? Before Dave
Speaker 2: passed several interviews we were doing leading up to the catalog,
Speaker 2: he really talked in depth about it, which was this
Speaker 2: very eye opening for me because I didn't know he
Speaker 2: was feeling like that for that album. Like Dave was
Speaker 2: just revealing that he was just really not in a
Speaker 2: great place with himself and understanding himself and where he
Speaker 2: was going and how he should be evolving as a
Speaker 2: father as all these things during Balloon Mind State, So
Speaker 2: Dave really was. It's almost like he made it sound
Speaker 2: like and in hindsight, looking back, I can get I
Speaker 2: get it. Like he was almost like an airplane mode,
Speaker 2: like he was just like, Okay, you know, I'm going
Speaker 2: to listen to the mantra of Paul that if this
Speaker 2: is what pas thinks is dope to try or pass
Speaker 2: want to do this thing called Patty Duke pasta yo
Speaker 2: merse you right rhyme because I don't think I can
Speaker 2: really nail it. But that was his way just saying
Speaker 2: he didn't really like it, and and that's why I'm
Speaker 2: not to skip out of your question. But then that's
Speaker 2: why when he checked back in for Stakes is High,
Speaker 2: he came back with a vengeance. So yeah, during that
Speaker 2: period and focus is definitely Dave like he's tired of
Speaker 2: this shit, like he's tired of this light being on him.
Speaker 2: If I want to do some dirt, niggas looking, if
Speaker 2: I want to chill, niggas looking I just want to
Speaker 2: rest with my daughter, niggas looking like That's that really
Speaker 2: I felt like that's what they felt.
Speaker 1: How did you guys discover shot Dara Shadara part and
Speaker 1: uh Tagaji Khan, the two Japanese MC's on Long Island wilding.
Speaker 2: Well, it started from Khan was down with already down
Speaker 2: with Red Alert, like so the prop Master stuff. We
Speaker 2: almost found out about Khan through Red Alert before we
Speaker 2: even went to Japan. And so by the time we
Speaker 2: lived in Japan and this meet con, he introduced us
Speaker 2: to his home boys SDP, and then we were actually
Speaker 2: on shows together and so we were just really cool.
Speaker 2: They really pretty much in all what we was doing
Speaker 2: and loved what we were doing, and we actually was
Speaker 2: felt the same about them, Like we was like, yo,
Speaker 2: these these three dudes is like to us, they they
Speaker 2: felt like the Japanese beastie boys, like they were just
Speaker 2: really creative, and we just saw a similar kinship musically,
Speaker 2: where like the barrier of not understanding them and them
Speaker 2: not understanding us probably every word, but we felt a
Speaker 2: connection to the music. So we was like when we
Speaker 2: came up with that skit Long Island Wildin and it
Speaker 2: only came from I had this The beat was just
Speaker 2: the beat, but I had this take of Mantronics performing
Speaker 2: at the Red Patron m and Tricky T who rhymed
Speaker 2: of course in Mantronics. He was just like, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm and I'm out in Long Island
Speaker 2: right now, Locus Long Island be wilding like that's but
Speaker 2: that's where I'm staying at Long And I was like, Yo,
Speaker 2: it would be dope to put this in this beat,
Speaker 2: and then of course us just take it just elsewhere.
Speaker 2: It was like, and we don't even rhyme on Let's
Speaker 2: let SDP and con rhyme on this shit because they
Speaker 2: ain't from Long Island. They're from Japan, right right, Since
Speaker 2: we thought that would be like, wow, all right, let's
Speaker 2: do that, and then that's what we did.
Speaker 1: I see on I Am I Be? How many side
Speaker 1: characters did you guys get to loop? And did they
Speaker 1: have to loop the entire five minute duration of that
Speaker 1: song of whatever they were the I Am da da
Speaker 1: da I'd be four eleven I Am da da da?
Speaker 1: I bet did they do that in the entire.
Speaker 2: All those vocals mainly consisted of stuff I will walk
Speaker 2: around my dad and just get people to say it.
Speaker 2: So at that point, I was we were hanging out
Speaker 2: a lot at Delaware State. Our friend Wade, who's boss
Speaker 2: all who Dave is he's on the ad libs And David, Yeah,
Speaker 2: he went to Dell State, so we also hang out there,
Speaker 2: and so all the friends we made there, I had
Speaker 2: him like, Yo, I'm making a song call and my
Speaker 2: be and need to just say I am your name,
Speaker 2: I be whatever, and then I will get them. But then,
Speaker 2: of course Shorty, who was already at this point going
Speaker 2: to be on the entire album we wanted. We wanted Shorty.
Speaker 2: I was like, this as long as you can possibly
Speaker 2: say it. And then of course, like people like Buster
Speaker 2: and Q Tip and we recorded them right in battery
Speaker 2: and God blessed the dead. Crazy enough Bob of course
Speaker 2: helped us put all that together. And this is before
Speaker 2: the simple age of what we have now, like you
Speaker 2: make a voice note, you slip place. It wasn't just
Speaker 2: as simple. It was like really kind of already figuring out, Okay, Bob,
Speaker 2: I want this to go first. I want to hear
Speaker 2: this say this person, but I wanted to kind of
Speaker 2: start building up and he's like and so he technically
Speaker 2: is trying to figure out how to do that. And
Speaker 2: then also I could change I can be like because
Speaker 2: when Tip says I am cute to I'd be friction.
Speaker 2: I was like, Yo, that's amazing, let's put Tip this move.
Speaker 2: Whoever was in the way put Tip saying that. So
Speaker 2: it was tedious, like probably doing the rhymes to that
Speaker 2: was easier than putting all those vocals, and that took.
Speaker 1: I almost wondered if well, I was wondering, did you
Speaker 1: leave gaps in the rhyme just to have the ad
Speaker 1: libs coming now?
Speaker 2: No, we just figured out, like, you know what this
Speaker 2: feels good? I knew okay, like right where I in
Speaker 2: my rhyme. I wanted someone to say something. I figured, okay,
Speaker 2: I got one left over from Chris Lighty Baby, Chris
Speaker 2: you say this like, yeah, man, it was just trying
Speaker 2: to fill it up as much as possible.
Speaker 1: Got it.
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: Did JVS ever respond to your verse? And I M
Speaker 1: I B no.
Speaker 2: I played it for them before the song, before the
Speaker 2: album came out. I went to them and played it.
Speaker 2: I sat. I remember, I was in a car with
Speaker 2: Long and them. I was like, yo, I'm putting a
Speaker 2: I played it for them. I played it for Q Tip,
Speaker 2: I played it for I played it for them. It
Speaker 2: wasn't like they heard it for the first time when
Speaker 2: it was you know, and it was me because our
Speaker 2: relationship wasn't a weird space. We were always refining fame
Speaker 2: and I kind of really took it to heart because
Speaker 2: I looked at them as my two brothers, you know,
Speaker 2: like I was hanging with those two dudes q Tip
Speaker 2: in Africa at one point more than I was hanging with,
Speaker 2: you know, Dave and Mace, so I own, and we
Speaker 2: weren't doing daylight stuff. I was at Africa's house, in
Speaker 2: his house, staying at his house, his mother's cooking for
Speaker 2: so I would be at Tips house and we were
Speaker 2: like together. So it seemed like we was falling apart
Speaker 2: from each other. And that was just me being in
Speaker 2: my feelings and wrote that where in hindsight it was
Speaker 2: just really should have been more of a talk with
Speaker 2: each other about what was going on with each other.
Speaker 2: But I went to them in hopes of showing them
Speaker 2: this in my way of just trying to fix our
Speaker 2: relationship where it seemed like we weren't all hanging with
Speaker 2: each other, got it, you know, and Tipp and spoke
Speaker 2: about it like he understood it then. But it just
Speaker 2: that once that it came out, it was just kind
Speaker 2: of like a bandit that's kept getting ripped and ripped
Speaker 2: and ripped. And I think like it caused some animosity
Speaker 2: maybe at some point, and whoever else.
Speaker 1: All right, Stakes's eye the intro who just happened to
Speaker 1: be battling another MC when they hear criminal Minded for
Speaker 1: the first time, I'd never ever believe that line as
Speaker 1: long as I like Most battling another see that had
Speaker 1: to be Moose.
Speaker 2: Oh I love that boy man. Most y'all seen Bay Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I will say it forever and ever. He was the
Speaker 2: battery of all those sessions. Most once he came around.
Speaker 2: He was there every day and he was like the cheerleader,
Speaker 2: the battery, the inspiration.
Speaker 1: How did you guys meet him? Because I met him
Speaker 1: through I think I've met him for the first time
Speaker 1: that whatever the Daylight live at tramps. Yeah, how did
Speaker 1: you guys meet most Room Mace?
Speaker 2: Mace was DJing at some spot and most actually was
Speaker 2: the particular spot it was. Most was like doing some
Speaker 2: type of poetry hosting there, and I think from there
Speaker 2: it's how they linked. And Mace every now and then
Speaker 2: would be like, Yo, this kid, you know, he's dope,
Speaker 2: and I was like, you know, cool, you know, come
Speaker 2: by the studio one day, mind you, I'm already seeing
Speaker 2: this Dante Smith Guy Cosby's mysteries. I didn't know that,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I mean once Mace brought most through, told
Speaker 2: have most come through? He was like there every day.
Speaker 1: Okay, when you get to Stakes reissues, can you please
Speaker 1: include the original Dave intro where he's we're jumpling and
Speaker 1: and oh the very the intro song, the intro.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's the anniversary coming up in a few
Speaker 2: months and we're dealing with right now what we're going
Speaker 2: to put on it.
Speaker 1: Oh please, Like, I don't know why y'all edited that,
Speaker 1: but for me, just too long.
Speaker 2: It's just too long.
Speaker 1: That's no, it was. It was genius because you you're
Speaker 1: literally inside the head of Davids. He's trying to figure
Speaker 1: out the right cadence. But I don't know. I always
Speaker 1: thought that was that was brilliant. By that point, ninety
Speaker 1: six was upon us. We were getting the two. Critics
Speaker 1: started sort of labeled the perspective as somewhat elitist or
Speaker 1: they invented a new term called player hating or whatever.
Speaker 1: But when you compare it to what we're dealing with
Speaker 1: now looking back, do you find it surprising how hip
Speaker 1: hop has evolved or devolved? And is it shocking? What's
Speaker 1: your feelings on the whole Stakes as ye kind of.
Speaker 2: For the most part of me. I'm a positive dude,
Speaker 2: believe it or not, because I know a lot of
Speaker 2: times when I look at sometimes I'll say to this
Speaker 2: to myself. When I write, I can write things out
Speaker 2: of like a warning, lady light be careful, y'all, this
Speaker 2: is about to happen. But I do feel that even now,
Speaker 2: there's amazing music out It's just the problem is you
Speaker 2: just gotta find it. It's not easy to find. And
Speaker 2: I think with our minds, you know, someone to be like,
Speaker 2: you know what, I only know how to look on
Speaker 2: this particular site of post to go to that site,
Speaker 2: and that site is its own world. And so I
Speaker 2: think it's harder to find stuff. And so when you
Speaker 2: talk about at one point when mainstream music could have
Speaker 2: more positivity, you know, like the carrist One with the
Speaker 2: super great hit, but he's carrist One or Tribe got
Speaker 2: this beautiful, amazing record in their pott Yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: that's a little hard to come by these days. And
Speaker 2: you know, stakes is high. Originally for me was about life.
Speaker 2: So even Dave was like always really a little bit
Speaker 2: more about the industry, Like, yo, this industry is some bullshitting.
Speaker 2: I don't know where we stand in the industry, and
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I was reading a lot
Speaker 2: of quite honestly, like you know, like a heap arigin
Speaker 2: wite books and different types of I don't know where
Speaker 2: life is at, Like life is a little crazy.
Speaker 1: So I think you about to go to Penn station
Speaker 1: with the crate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at y'all, I was. I used to get my books.
Speaker 2: I used to get I was, you know, I was
Speaker 2: really deep. I was really deep, you know, honestly I was.
Speaker 2: I was a part of the new Wappian nation. My
Speaker 2: name was Fox Korder, I knew Doctor York. I would
Speaker 2: go down to the land. Yeah, if you look at
Speaker 2: Break of Dawn on Balloon Mind stay times, like even
Speaker 2: the video Breaker Down, I got the patches on on
Speaker 2: my shirt, so I was. I was heavily and.
Speaker 1: I missed that he the next Lifetime video with Erica too.
Speaker 1: Then I know it.
Speaker 2: So I mean like, yeah, I mean I was just
Speaker 2: really on some like yeah, life is life, and as
Speaker 2: they would stay these days, and we really need to
Speaker 2: look at what we're doing, and we meant it in
Speaker 2: a really good way. We didn't we know, we didn't
Speaker 2: want it to turn around and say anything mean And
Speaker 2: then get into some issue with someone, but we was
Speaker 2: willing to if it had to be, because we just
Speaker 2: really was saying it love. And as you said, when
Speaker 2: you look at where a lot of music is today,
Speaker 2: and funny enough, a lot of MC's back then who
Speaker 2: felt differently, they feel the same now and they'll come
Speaker 2: to us and be like yo, like kind of like
Speaker 2: you was right.
Speaker 1: Why did you guys waste that NonStop beat?
Speaker 2: Hey?
Speaker 1: That shit could have went far for y'all. And I
Speaker 1: get angry every time it comes up, and I'm always like,
Speaker 1: I know there's a corresponding song that goes with that thing,
Speaker 1: because it was just.
Speaker 2: A banging ass beat Dave made and he wanted to
Speaker 2: use it to talk over ain't crazy enough, no man,
Speaker 2: which is the beauty of it all. Like I didn't
Speaker 2: give him any I didn't really beat him in ahead
Speaker 2: about it. I didn't even be like yo, like, uh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't look at it like yo, we
Speaker 2: should rhyme on this. Nah. It was just like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is dope, and now you want to do this
Speaker 2: over and fade up and fade down. You know. Really
Speaker 2: it really was like that. I mean, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of songs like that. I mean, you know, it's so easy.
Speaker 2: It was like that. I didn't That's why Dave, that's
Speaker 2: why I became his soule thing. I didn't see it.
Speaker 2: That's something to rhyme over.
Speaker 1: Were you supposed to have a verse on it's so easy?
Speaker 2: No, because originally it's so easy. I made that for
Speaker 2: Naughty by Nature. That was for them. Oh shit, yeah there,
Speaker 2: because when we were finishing up stakes as high, that
Speaker 2: could have worked well, we were finishing up stakes as high.
Speaker 2: Audie Lacatus, who was working on Tommy Boy, was like, look, man,
Speaker 2: we're working you know, Naughty just got started on their album,
Speaker 2: but we've already identified a few songs that could be singles,
Speaker 2: and we want to get ahead of the game and
Speaker 2: get remixes going. I was like, Yo, that's so smart
Speaker 2: of y'all. That's wow. That's a great idea. And when
Speaker 2: they played for me, feel Me Flawed, Feel Me Flaw
Speaker 2: B So that was for that. Yeah. I put that together.
Speaker 2: But when in doing it, I was like, after hearing it,
Speaker 2: I matched trench vocals and to it, I was like, Nah,
Speaker 2: this ain't gonna work because their version was so already
Speaker 2: clean and crispy, and just like so dope. I just
Speaker 2: felt like as a remix it was a step below
Speaker 2: it and how the music felt, it almost felt like
Speaker 2: what I made could have been the original. And then
Speaker 2: you go at that time, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: I felt like this ain't a good remix, and I
Speaker 2: got to maybe try to find something else, and then
Speaker 2: from there it would have just went in a pile
Speaker 2: of jump. I just from that point I liked what
Speaker 2: I did, and then I was like yo, yo, Me
Speaker 2: and Renee from Jeanne. We were hanging around each other
Speaker 2: a lot at that point because album, we just kind
Speaker 2: of would just be around each other all the time.
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, maybe I'm gonna see
Speaker 2: if Rene want to use it for something for Jehane.
Speaker 2: Dave just happened to call me checking in and I
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, man, I just tried something for this,
Speaker 2: not anything. It ain't h it didn't work. He said, yo,
Speaker 2: let me hear it, and I let him hear it,
Speaker 2: and he just pretty much hit me, but like you
Speaker 2: big dum, he are you crazy? This is fucking amazing
Speaker 2: what you we should do this? And I was like, really,
Speaker 2: I didn't hear it. I didn't hear at all. I mean,
Speaker 2: mind you, even even at that point, I was already
Speaker 2: doing something with Most and his crew Madina green Ild
Speaker 2: even could have been like I could have gave it
Speaker 2: to them, and Dave was like fuck that. He's a
Speaker 2: matter of fact, merse, I don't even have a solo
Speaker 2: joint for this. That's my solo joint, all right. I
Speaker 2: couldn't hear myself on it. I didn't hear myself. When
Speaker 2: he was like, we should do it, I was like, really,
Speaker 2: I didn't even hear it.
Speaker 1: Okay, So Commons code sign was very crucial for his
Speaker 1: career development. What was about him that told you guys like,
Speaker 1: let's him raise him? Because him being on that made
Speaker 1: me go back to RESI like, make me go to Resurrection, Like, okay,
Speaker 1: let me if day all I take some serious, let
Speaker 1: me take but seriously, the line that racknophobia line on
Speaker 1: take it easy. I put him in time out for
Speaker 1: like three years. So no, dude, Common, help me buy
Speaker 1: my mom's first GRIBs. So you guys co signing that
Speaker 1: affects my life. So what was it about Common that
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: We had met? Okay? Obviously, as you said, you know
Speaker 2: from the first album. His first album saw him cool.
Speaker 2: We meet him even from that point. A few times
Speaker 2: we would run into him, Like I say, at that
Speaker 2: Howard University they would have like a rap conference, so
Speaker 2: we were running to comment there whatever. Mace was the
Speaker 2: one who kept saying, y'all, we need to put comment
Speaker 2: on this album. And we would be like, all right,
Speaker 2: you know, if we find something, but it wasn't really
Speaker 2: anything that was sparking me about it. Mace just kept saying, like, Yo,
Speaker 2: man Common should be on his album. I at some
Speaker 2: point got an early copy of Resurrection the album, and
Speaker 2: when I got to Communism, I was like, I called
Speaker 2: Mace's like, Yo, yeah, this nigga need to be on
Speaker 2: an album. And he had that kind of he had
Speaker 2: that tone like all right, nigga, what convinced you? I
Speaker 2: was like, Yo, I'm listening to this nigga's new album. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: all right, he needs to be on an album. Dave
Speaker 2: at the same time, was trying to give Bizz. David
Speaker 2: was trying to do a bunch of shit for Biz.
Speaker 2: He was trying to like, Yo, I'm telling you, I
Speaker 2: think I got a bunch of shit that could be
Speaker 2: dope for Biz. And his business. Let me write the rhyme.
Speaker 2: So Dave had this one joint that was really dope,
Speaker 2: and then he had what was going to become the business.
Speaker 2: He was like, Yo, this is what this will be
Speaker 2: for Bizz, and he's like ow, Bizz kept fucking around
Speaker 2: and not coming to the studio. Like Dave was doing
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff in his own house. He had
Speaker 2: a bunch of a dads and we will record stuff.
Speaker 2: They built a vocal boove and so we would do
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff at his crib and Bigs would
Speaker 2: be like, yeah, David, I'll be there. I'll be there,
Speaker 2: and he would never come. So he was like, yo, man,
Speaker 2: fuck it this beat, let's do it. Let us do it,
Speaker 2: and we're gonna just fuck with biz and call it
Speaker 2: the business. So I was like, Yo, maybe this is
Speaker 2: this could be the joke we put comment on. This
Speaker 2: is some ron friendly shit, and that's exactly what we did.
Speaker 1: You know, I see, all right? Also four More should
Speaker 1: have been a single man.
Speaker 2: I agree, But what we were told is that it
Speaker 2: felt to adult. It felt too like Von Harper. Adult
Speaker 2: is from Tommy.
Speaker 1: Yes, So you're one of the rare artists that has
Speaker 1: an arsenal of Dilla tracks that you've rhymed over that
Speaker 1: were given to you specifically, and I think just because
Speaker 1: of the introest you can see of it, most people
Speaker 1: would assume, oh, stakes Aside must be everyone's favorite Dilla track.
Speaker 1: But that's not the case with me. What is your favorite?
Speaker 1: Deala track that you've rhymed over?
Speaker 2: Space is up there. Now it got to be a
Speaker 2: Daylight record or anyway.
Speaker 1: I just want to make me no, no, no, just for
Speaker 1: yes Daylight like that you've rhymed over, Like there's see
Speaker 1: verbal clap to me. Just like one time I almost
Speaker 1: got in a car accident. Literally I couldn't drive straight
Speaker 1: because I was just so jealous of that goddamn intro.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's exactly I was about to say, verbal clap,
Speaker 2: verbal clap, yo. I mean, I just remember him letting
Speaker 2: us hear it. When I heard that record, I was like,
Speaker 2: this shit is absolutely insane. And it was right where
Speaker 2: we were at that point making that album, Like you know,
Speaker 2: we were just like, Yo, this gotta be more of
Speaker 2: like a beats and rhymes. We felt like that's what
Speaker 2: he needed to be, and that's what that particular song
Speaker 2: showed it. I mean, it just made you want to
Speaker 2: this right to it right, yeah, I mean even down
Speaker 2: to the fact of the version that he did. When
Speaker 2: we asked at this point Jay to send us, Okay,
Speaker 2: send us you know the tracks so we you know,
Speaker 2: so we can now track a track it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He it was something that he had already left on
Speaker 2: whatever system he had in Detroit. He didn't know where
Speaker 2: it was.
Speaker 1: That's y'all just rhyming over the B tape.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because in mind you, I went to La to
Speaker 2: get up with him. He remade it. So even to
Speaker 2: see him do that was crazy. He remade it to
Speaker 2: even see where the was actually like some beautiful lovely
Speaker 2: get talk about bling bling bling ling ling and he
Speaker 2: garage band of sound.
Speaker 1: And and I was like, so he did some like
Speaker 1: a guy vers shit where it was just yeah, because
Speaker 1: I see him that set up in his kitchen, yo.
Speaker 2: I mean like I was just flawed. I was just like,
Speaker 2: I was floored by how he reput this this ship together.
Speaker 2: He just remade it. And then but even in remaking it,
Speaker 2: it was just missing something that the original did had.
Speaker 2: I took it back from La back to the to
Speaker 2: New York. We put the rhymes to it. We synked
Speaker 2: everything up and we were distilled, like and it just
Speaker 2: wound up being like, nah, man the two track, it's better?
Speaker 2: Does this? Do it to the two track? And he
Speaker 2: was winning. He was like, nah, I.
Speaker 1: Hear you for peer pressure? Whose idea was it to
Speaker 1: slow the song down? Like even more than what it
Speaker 1: was to give you the impression that you're on weed?
Speaker 2: That was JD Jay didn't and he didn't even know
Speaker 2: the idea. It was already like.
Speaker 1: That, oh really yep, which is because so blatant though,
Speaker 1: because it just gets slower, like the first time I
Speaker 1: heard it. During that period, I will say that eighty
Speaker 1: percent of my listening was always like driving in my car.
Speaker 1: I just got my license in two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: so like I would just drive forever. And even I
Speaker 1: was like, yo, like is it me or is this
Speaker 1: shit slowing down? And he didn't know that that's what
Speaker 1: you were doing it for.
Speaker 2: Nope, he had already given me the beat. I thought
Speaker 2: the beat was dope, but then it worked with the
Speaker 2: idea that me mace and be real that came up with,
Speaker 2: like he wrote, we was at some radio function, you know,
Speaker 2: some show function that a radio station put on and Mace.
Speaker 2: I could see Mace out the side of his I
Speaker 2: saying something to be real because they had just rolled
Speaker 2: up and and he was like, Mercy want something. I
Speaker 2: was like, and they laugh and he was like, come on,
Speaker 2: the pressure man, the pressure right. And I immediately came
Speaker 2: up with the idea right there. I was like, Yo,
Speaker 2: that'd be a dope song. Y'all trying to make me
Speaker 2: smoke weed Jay sent us that beat. I was like,
Speaker 2: it's this record because on its own it was doing
Speaker 2: that slow and then kind of sped up things.
Speaker 1: Right right, No, Merse, do you remember when Prince kicked
Speaker 1: you out your own session? Yes?
Speaker 2: I remember, Oh boy, I remember that.
Speaker 1: And I don't remember and I don't mean Prince Paul either.
Speaker 2: Because I walked into it. You were already thick in it.
Speaker 2: I walked into her lady. Yeah, I'm saying, but the
Speaker 2: young lady who ran Mary Mary.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: When I walked in, she was apologizing, I'm so sorry, Pa.
Speaker 2: So I'm like sorry for what I just walked in.
Speaker 2: What happened? And she's like, it's your session. I said,
Speaker 2: oh something, you know, I'm just thinking, like, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe someone ran over and She's like, no, it's just
Speaker 2: because he's here, and then I you, I see you,
Speaker 2: and then you're saying the same thing, and you're like,
Speaker 2: because the Royalty, dude, this guy is see I'm like
Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, and then it becomes it's because Prince
Speaker 2: took over all the rooms and playing music for Warner Brothers.
Speaker 2: He's about to get his I'll guess work out a
Speaker 2: deal with them again and whatever.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, well I only saw the back of Clive Davis. No,
Speaker 1: it was actually for it, Sony. He he walked in
Speaker 1: with Clive Davis. Both times I saw them walk in
Speaker 1: and walked out, but it was always to their back
Speaker 1: to us, and they knew they were taking our room
Speaker 1: over and they didn't say anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was crazy. And so when he finally seized
Speaker 2: me at one point, he very apologetic, but I gave
Speaker 2: him the hardest squeezed hand Eric b squeezed. I was like, yo, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think to give everyone context, there was half
Speaker 1: a second where you guys couldn't clear ode to Billy
Speaker 1: Joe's drum break from Lou Donaldson. You picked the day
Speaker 1: in which we had just mastered in sequenced Voodoo, like
Speaker 1: four years of work was done, but yet we had
Speaker 1: the room locked out, and you know, during the daytime,
Speaker 1: d would always let me use the room while he
Speaker 1: was like working out or whatever. So I know, in
Speaker 1: one room we were sequencing the record for Voodoo and
Speaker 1: in the other room trying to do the session, and
Speaker 1: we got kicked out. So I guess you were the
Speaker 1: first person to hear Voodoo not in the circle. I
Speaker 1: remember you were the very first person to hear it, sir,
Speaker 1: And I was nervous listening that record, like from start
Speaker 1: to finish at the end of it. All right, So inclosing,
Speaker 1: what three non hip hop albums do you listen to
Speaker 1: from front to back?
Speaker 2: Non hip hop?
Speaker 1: I mean three most perfect records that you put on
Speaker 1: there's no skips, Wow, key of Liar, okay, Stevie Wonder.
Speaker 2: Yeah, non hip hop.
Speaker 1: For the guy that invented the twenty four track single album,
Speaker 1: I figured, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, it's just it's crazy that it's all well, wow, Voodoo,
Speaker 2: oh cool, Wooo, Front the Back, al Greens, Let's stay
Speaker 2: together Front the Back, Okay. Remind me of my I
Speaker 2: mean amazing records, of course, But like when I was young,
Speaker 2: I thought my father was our Green because when I
Speaker 2: was young, he would sing it as his plan. So
Speaker 2: I was like he sounded like him and.
Speaker 1: He looks like must be Okay, what are the three
Speaker 1: hip hop records that you live for?
Speaker 2: Three hip hop records that I live for? Wow, Raising,
Speaker 2: hell By Run, DMC, Criminal Minded, and what else. It's definitely,
Speaker 2: I mean it's those two at the top and a
Speaker 2: nation of millions.
Speaker 1: Okay, what three hip hop songs have you committed to memory?
Speaker 2: Three hip hop songs I've committed to memory your three
Speaker 2: favorite I'm just trying to tell you that that's hard
Speaker 2: for me. How funny enough, I had this talk with
Speaker 2: with thought Freak about this, Like I was never a
Speaker 2: dude who could commit. It's really hard for me to
Speaker 2: do that music. I can tell you where the drops is,
Speaker 2: where the high hat is. It's hard for me to
Speaker 2: commit lyrics, really very hard, and like I have to
Speaker 2: force myself.
Speaker 1: You're the king of lyrics.
Speaker 2: It's very hard for me to commit lyrics to memory
Speaker 2: of other artists of songs. So like it gotta be
Speaker 2: something super easy. So like it's like Arabi for President.
Speaker 2: It's like top billing, right, like those songs, It's like
Speaker 2: I can remember it easy because like Coolie Rap, as
Speaker 2: much as I love him, I'll die if you put
Speaker 2: a gun to my head and tell me this.
Speaker 1: Right now, I get it. What are your three favorite
Speaker 1: Daylight records?
Speaker 2: Millie? Immediately Millie pulled the pistol on Santa I am
Speaker 2: I be trying people.
Speaker 1: To trying people to me, man. That's when I heard it.
Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, Daila has a lighter song. I
Speaker 1: was like, when they do this in concert, they have to.
Speaker 1: I was so jealous that you found that song, man,
Speaker 1: Like I just I listened to that ship like ten times.
Speaker 2: My younger brother he made that. He made that record
Speaker 2: with his Lucky Luck made that with his Holy Perp.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Man, when I heard it, I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: I lived for records like that. It just like something
Speaker 2: I had to pour my heart out.
Speaker 1: Who sparked it first, You or Dave?
Speaker 2: We were doing it pretty much at the same time,
Speaker 2: but he got on first. He wanted to go first.
Speaker 2: And even when I heard his verse, it has made
Speaker 2: me like, oh my god, this is amazing. And my
Speaker 2: verse was a lot longer. Where I where I end
Speaker 2: on record, it's actually all probably like another fourteen bars.
Speaker 2: I didn't have to shorten it because I was like, yo,
Speaker 2: this is this is gonna have people crying. So I
Speaker 2: shortened it and then where I ended it, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, what's the last nice thing that you've done for yourself?
Speaker 2: Last nice thing that I have done for myself? I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: Are you a car person? Do you collect artwork? Are you?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know about cars, so I
Speaker 2: don't care about cars.
Speaker 1: Do you drive?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I can drive? I drive right?
Speaker 1: Do you have a self care routine? Like, especially now
Speaker 1: that we're of this age where.
Speaker 2: Just truly in tune to take care of myself things
Speaker 2: that I've already knew I've through the years, started to
Speaker 2: put them on into practice. You know, a lot of
Speaker 2: the young living that we did on tour, like the
Speaker 2: super staying up late, eating after a show, you know,
Speaker 2: and going right to bed, stuff like that Ben stopped
Speaker 2: for me, but just putting more of it into practice,
Speaker 2: you know, losing Dave even before even when this Dave
Speaker 2: was still here and had his health issues and basically
Speaker 2: have his self issues, and Yo, I was just realizing, like, yo, man,
Speaker 2: I just need to be here for my younger kids.
Speaker 2: And I just start putting just a lot of that
Speaker 2: into practice, Like I cut off processed foods. I you know,
Speaker 2: I just eat tons of fruits. I eat no type
Speaker 2: of candy, no breads unless it's like sour dough like.
Speaker 2: So I've just really been in the gym stuff like that.
Speaker 2: So I've just really been on my it's taking care
Speaker 2: of myself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, how hard was it picking up the pieces
Speaker 1: for you and Mace to sort of carry this vision through,
Speaker 1: especially in this phase of your life, making the Cabin
Speaker 1: to the Sky and seeing it through. Just talk about
Speaker 1: the process of how did you get through it?
Speaker 2: I mean, and I'm not really trying to sound like
Speaker 2: I don't know Ornie and uplifting, but Dave really was
Speaker 2: there through it, like I felt I've felt signs from him.
Speaker 2: I mean, I may have spoken to you about this life,
Speaker 2: even down to the album title when once I saw
Speaker 2: the title and I'm like, this should be the title,
Speaker 2: and it's it's speaking to me, and I'm trying to
Speaker 2: load it into my phone like all the newer Deyla
Speaker 2: untitled songs, and it would no longer go into my
Speaker 2: phone by the time I changed it to Cabin the
Speaker 2: Sky goes into my Like I just felt like Dave
Speaker 2: was there with me through it, and just how we've
Speaker 2: just normally done with Daylight albums, like just the sequencing,
Speaker 2: and it just felt right. We had some other great songs,
Speaker 2: but I was like, you know what, this song I
Speaker 2: got from soundtrack, it's amazing, but it's not fitting in
Speaker 2: with everything else. So got to put that to the side.
Speaker 2: Or this other song that had Dave on it that
Speaker 2: we have called Take one for the Team could be
Speaker 2: another great moment to have Dave on the album, but nah,
Speaker 2: this doesn't work with where it was going. So I
Speaker 2: just kind of let the compass of natural things lead
Speaker 2: me to where I need to go, and just my
Speaker 2: experience of just putting together records, and it came together,
Speaker 2: especially once I got the title, once I knew it
Speaker 2: was gonna be called Cabin in the Sky, everything just
Speaker 2: kind of just fell into place and it didn't feel hard.
Speaker 2: It really didn't. It felt light man, and it felt therapeutic,
Speaker 2: So it didn't really feel hard to do.
Speaker 1: All right. My last two questions, Bob, how can you
Speaker 1: just talk about like what his contributions were to the
Speaker 1: group and how what was it like working with him?
Speaker 2: Bob Power was one of the most amazing human beings
Speaker 2: I've ever met in this industry ever, So I mean
Speaker 2: like to have him being the one who has all
Speaker 2: this knowledge on sound and helping you to reach this
Speaker 2: goal or even see something that and hear something that
Speaker 2: you didn't even realize your music would sound like. I mean,
Speaker 2: what I loved about him from the very beginning is
Speaker 2: that he was a person that he didn't treat us
Speaker 2: like we weren't supposed to be there because like a
Speaker 2: lot of these early sessions, you had these engineers who
Speaker 2: were like, you know, they were rock dudes and punk
Speaker 2: rock guys, and you know they have these young black
Speaker 2: kids coming in here who got these deals now and
Speaker 2: trying to tell them what to do. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: and Bobby from Calliope, Dave was very open like wow,
Speaker 2: what is that? And how so what was your thinking
Speaker 2: on that? But then he could show you his thinking
Speaker 2: on something else. So that's why he just became one
Speaker 2: of those engineers where you wanted him around you for
Speaker 2: that reason alone.
Speaker 1: Is there a particular song or mix that he transformed
Speaker 1: for you that you yourself didn't see when it was in
Speaker 1: the rough stages? In my mind, do you want more
Speaker 1: of would have been was nowhere near Like once I
Speaker 1: heard him mix, I was like, holy shit, like this
Speaker 1: is a whole new.
Speaker 2: But breaka Dawn is definitely one of them, just how
Speaker 2: I thought it would sonically sound and what and how
Speaker 2: he made because he was like, you know, tracking it
Speaker 2: with us. Crazy enough. Bob is the one who pretty
Speaker 2: much named me plug wonder why Wonder why. It comes
Speaker 2: from him because when we was doing break of Dawn,
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, plug wonder, wonder why you're lonely tonight?
Speaker 2: So once he heard me say it, he just what
Speaker 2: all always just keep saying, plug wonder, wonder why you're
Speaker 2: loning tonight? And so I would come in plug wonder
Speaker 2: why What's up? And I was like and it would
Speaker 2: just become something we would laugh at and I was like, Yo,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna add that to my mini monikers like I
Speaker 2: am plugged wonder why because of Bob.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: This is an amazing, amazing and beautiful person as you know.
Speaker 1: All right, My last question, do you have three favorite
Speaker 1: Dave moments on day live recordings?
Speaker 2: Dave doing the Johnny's Dead was absolutely hurlarious in real time.
Speaker 2: Just I can still see him doing it. We're trying
Speaker 2: so bad not to laugh because we don't want the
Speaker 2: mic to pick it up because he wasn't in the booth.
Speaker 2: This is the mic in the room of Calliope and
Speaker 2: I and I'm and even threw a piece of paper
Speaker 2: and I hit him my mistakes. So that's when you said,
Speaker 2: you're sucking us up. Man, you're laughing like so that
Speaker 2: was just one of the most funniest things Dave doing that. Wow.
Speaker 2: What else is? It's holy shit, there's so many him
Speaker 2: doing the stupid well. He was on my answering machine
Speaker 2: and that's when I had to call him back and
Speaker 2: was like, Yo, you know this is gonna go on
Speaker 2: the album, right.
Speaker 1: Oh, Dave has a problem. Seriously.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like, when I came home and hurt
Speaker 2: that message, I laughed so hard. And when I called him,
Speaker 2: he already knew what I was calling him for. He's
Speaker 2: already laughing. I was like, Yo, you're an asshole. And
Speaker 2: I was like, and you know that's going on album?
Speaker 2: He said, get out of here. I was like, Yo, man,
Speaker 2: that shit got to go on an album.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That was another one. Oh my god, what else? It
Speaker 2: just he was amazing at just off the cuff. Funny
Speaker 2: shit like just he was just so off the cuff
Speaker 2: with it. I feel like I'm missing one from bionics
Speaker 2: that he did something silly on I don't know, it's
Speaker 2: just too many.
Speaker 1: Wow. Look man, it is taken forever for this to happen.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I know, man, It's cool.
Speaker 1: And I really appreciate you taking the time out to
Speaker 1: let me finally get this interview out after all these
Speaker 1: years I've been begging you. I mean, I've said it before, man,
Speaker 1: like you guys literally are the inspiration for and the standard,
Speaker 1: the gold standard for which you know, Tarika and I
Speaker 1: judge just greatness man, And the fact that you're still
Speaker 1: constantly doing it and pushing through is commendable. And yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear what you guys have next. Man,
Speaker 1: So thank you for doing this for me.
Speaker 2: Appreciate it. I love you, man, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Love you to bro, all right, thank you. Quest Love
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