WEBVTT - Developing a Coronavirus Antibody Test 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:02.960 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.520 Jason Kelly. We're here every day bringing you the latest 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.800 news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.480 all harnessing the power of Bloomberg Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.759 not to mention our journalists and analysts more than a 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:19.520 hundred and twenty countries. You can download Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.439 on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. You can also 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:24.919 listen to our radio show weekdays at two pm Eastern 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.800 only on Bloomberg Radio. As we said, a blockbuster show ahead, 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.400 let's kick it off. Stanley Bergman with us, the chairman 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:34.400 and the CEO of Henry Shine, joining us on the 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.199 phone from New York, right in the thick of it, 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:42.000 and really with something that could be a game changer. 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.279 It's fair to say, Carol Stanley, thank you so much 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:51.080 for joining us. Sure, thank you so help us understand 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:56.080 what you're working on, because it involves antibodies. As I 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:01.960 understand it, what does that mean as we fight COVID nineteen. So, 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.360 Henry Shine is the largest provider of products to what 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:09.520 we call office space health care practitioners, that's dentists and 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:13.360 physicians outside of the acute care setting, in the private setting, 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:16.440 and in that context, we have for years been focused 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.640 on what's called points of care rapid tests. These are 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.399 tests like the flu vaccine or even a pregnancy test 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.679 that is conducted in the doctor's office. And so we 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.440 started looking about six weeks ago around the world for 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:34.760 what's called points of care rapid tests for the coronavirus, 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:40.080 and uh that would just uh give you a little thought, 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.240 and that is that testing for the coronavirus is not 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.600 like a pregnancy test. It's not yes or no. There 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.080 are three kinds of tests that need to be used 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:53.639 in unison to diagnose a particular patient. And the first 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.600 is what's called a PCR test. This is a molecular 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.160 test that is really good to diagnose a patient in 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.080 the first two days, the first seven days or so. 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.480 The second is what's called an antigen test, which is 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:12.359 early diagnosis somewhere to mid stage diagnosis between five and 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.440 ten days. And the third is the antibody which is 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.680 a blood test which is good to determine if you 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:23.600 had had the virus or not. Have to really be 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:28.200 administered by somebody in the physician's office, or it could 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:33.280 even be a paramidt but interpreted by a physician. I'm 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:35.960 not a physician, I'm not a public health person. I'm 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.520 giving you a summary of what tess happened, but what 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:43.560 could happen and these need to be reviewed, an understanding 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.920 of the patient, of symptoms, the history, and other and 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.680 other kinds of a test that have been done. These 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.760 antibody tests are available pretty soon and we'll be able 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.480 to help patients understand where they've had the disease or Stanley. 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:58.920 I'm going to jump in only just because we have 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.320 about four minutes left. I think what the work you 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.920 folks are doing, we think it's really important that people 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.440 have an understanding of it because it could potentially help 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.639 us get people back to work sooner. It's about the 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:13.040 presence of finding out if if the presence of antibiodies 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.359 are there, and it means a person might be immune 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.959 from getting the virus in the in the future, so 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.400 that's that's key. Though we still don't know that about 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:26.560 this virus. Is that correct? Yes, it doesn't mean you 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.760 will never get it to game. I think these tests 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.200 have a little bit misunderstood in the sense that they 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.639 sound very simple. You need to go through and understand 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:36.880 what I just said and then speak to your physician. 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.680 But clearly, these antibody tests, the blood tests, of sourology 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:45.000 tests prick no equipment needed, available in fifteen minutes, are 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:47.840 very very helpful in bringing America back to work and 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.760 particularly testing the frontline healthcare providers and for example e 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.240 MPT at police people. But are they accurate in that 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.560 if they show there's a presence of antibodies, that there 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:06.040 is no chance of a person getting the coronavirus. Again, well, 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.160 first of all, mone these tests are hundred percent accurate. 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.480 Nor is the PCR test or any of these This 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:15.440 is where in the early stage of diagnosing the disease. 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.919 Uh uh, and so none of these tests a hundred 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.880 percent foolproof. Having said that, these tests worked working together 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.360 can help the physician make decisions of whether somebody can 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.240 go back to work or not. These are not tests 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:32.120 that are fool proof. Unfortunately, don't have any that are 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.640 foolproof yet. And so how quickly does this get out 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:40.280 and in what sort of volume? Stanley, Well, we expect 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.239 to have product production available. We have at the moment 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:48.080 to one being a Korean supplier and the other one 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.599 being b D from the United States, and we're betting 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.000 Dickinson and we respect to have these products available in 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.279 the next week or so, in hundreds of thousands and 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.360 then likely in moments. And how they be distributed. You're 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.040 working with the administration to get this done. What's the 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:08.960 process to get them out there? No, these tests will 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:14.320 be available to physicians and to hospitals and they can 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:19.200 be bought from Henry Shine to our normal medical channel. Uh. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.279 At the moment, I think the demand is more for 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:25.920 the PC artists, which has been around for a while 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:30.040 and known, and gradually I think the knowledge about emptibody 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.719 prology blood tests will become known and the product will 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:35.800 become more and more sought after. But at the moment, 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:38.760 of course, we have not shipped any yet, but we're 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.400 taking orders and we will deliver tests two. Primarily we 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.840 will focus on hospitals or tooth care and physician officers. 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.520 We're talking with Stanley Bergman, the chairman and cy of 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:52.240 Henry Shine. So Stanley, as you know, the key thing 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.400 with antibioties is that they tell us how many people 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:57.760 were infected. That is the number who have recovered or 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.200 produced antibodies suggesting that they have fought off the virus. 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:04.080 So I'm curious if you have any idea any results 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.040 that have come back so far that gives you an 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.520 idea of what proportion of the population is turning up 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:17.200 antibody positive. Yeah. Unfortunately these tests are relatively used. Testing 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.240 patterns are not well known, but the TISTS has been 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:24.120 used one in Korea and one in China with pretty 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.479 good results. But of course we have no studies yet 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.320 of any scale. In the United States, studies are being 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:35.360 conducted and the public, many of them are studying this 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.240 particular tests and how to use it. But we're dealing 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.960 with technology that's brand needs in the United States. And 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.960 part of the reason only yet about thirty seconds left here, Stanley, 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.040 is we need to know whether this is seasonal ultimately, 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.119 whether we're going to be living with this for quite 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:52.720 some time. So we need to know whether people are 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:56.039 are essentially, if not immune, at least have had it 0:06:56.080 --> 0:07:00.520 and are building up those Anybody's right, ye, us what 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.160 we need these tests to help us to determine patents, 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.919 and we can use these tests to help us determine 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:13.640 what's the patson UH of impact on society in general, 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.520 and these will be very very helpful. We expect them 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:21.120 to be very very helpful to public help officials as 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:25.080 they diagnosed, will determine where the trends are heading. Right. Well, 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.840 you're definitely doing really important work and we look forward 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.040 to hearing more, especially as you start shipping out more 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.760 those tests and the results are coming coming back. Stanley Bergman, 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.800 thank you, Thank you, Chairman and Chief executive officer at 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.680 Henry Shine. Joining us on the phone in New York City. 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.480 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.960 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. We know it is just a fact, Carol, 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:55.000 that retail, shopping, restaurants, all of it just absolutely getting obliterated. 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:59.640 Uh here, Fortunate for us we have someone to help understand, 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.520 help us understand this. Tom mcgheek, President and CEO of 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.880 International Council of Shopping Centers, joining us on the phone 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.239 from New Jersey. Tom, I know it's a very busy 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.320 time for you. We really appreciate you spending some time 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:14.120 with Carolin myself. Thanks for having me on. Happy to 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:15.920 be here. So I want to jump right in and 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:17.960 ask you about something that came up in a conversation 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:21.480 we had yesterday with none other than Danielle Blue, talking 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:26.280 well known restaurateur obviously talking about this notion of business 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.280 interruption coverage. It is something he is fighting for. I 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.959 know it's something you are intensely uh focused on as well. 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.200 Where are we on that as it relates to what 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:40.000 the government may or may not do? Yeah, well, uh, 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.640 we are focused on that issue. I mean we are 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.599 in the midst of a national crisis. I mean, effectively 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.000 the US economy is shut down. We are part of 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:53.560 a broad coalition that has advanced the solution for the 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.959 government to hopefully serve as the framework for the next 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:00.240 COVID relief package that will come out, and there will 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.599 necessarily net out of necessity, be another package. While the 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.680 CARES Act was was a good first step, it was 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.960 really just a first step. And the coalition that we're 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.440 a part of and actively involved in, believes the government 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:18.160 should put together a Business Continuity and Recovery Fund fully 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:22.360 funded by the US government UH to fundamentally backstop losses 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:26.199 that are taking place during this national crisis. And we 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.720 um we believe that the only entity that has a 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.720 balance sheet big enough to sustain the kind of losses 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.040 that are taking place right now is the US government, 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:41.240 and so we're hopeful. Um, you know, conversations are ongoing. Obviously, 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.080 Congress is not in session right now, so nothing will 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.959 happen until they come back into session. But we are 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:51.040 advancing that, and the coalition as broad and includes participants 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:55.400 from the assurance industry to folks like ourselves, to folks 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.280 in the retail and restaurant industry and everything in between. 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.920 Is tough. Yeah, let me just jump in for a second. 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:07.040 So small retail businesses I'm assuming are covered under the 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.199 bailout for small businesses, correct. I mean, I think there's 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:14.160 some three billion that came out of that massive stimulus. 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.280 So I'm assuming you're not talking about those kinds of retail. 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.160 You're talking about the bigger names, right and the publicly 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:25.680 held names. I'm talking about virtually companies of every size 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.920 and scale in every industry. You're correct. In the Cares 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:33.200 Act there was a provision to help small business. But 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.040 but honestly, I mean, the scale of that, while historic 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.880 in nature, two trillion dollars to spend is not all 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.800 that significant given the scale of what's taking place right now, 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.480 and I think that that Small Business UM package, although 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.680 well intentioned, will not be sufficient for what's taking place. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.920 And as I said, it is really just the first step, right, 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.000 and we do expect there to be a phase four, 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.320 phase five and probably you know, help on the other 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.280 side once we get out of the virus and help 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:02.360 me out here, because I think, you know, our listeners 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:04.280 are going to be asking this question, what do you 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.680 do with retailers that came into this in a pretty 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.839 weakened state, whether it's a Macy's that has been having 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:15.360 a tough time for years, I mean, why should they 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.640 get some assistance? Well, first and foremost, you know, I 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:24.160 think that this is not like any other crisis that 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.920 we've had in the past economic crisis. This isn't about 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.599 businesses that did or did not make wise business decisions. 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.599 What's fundamentally happened is that the government, and for it 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:35.880 are all right reasons for the right public health and 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:40.199 safety actions, has basically placed the economy and time out UM. 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.200 And I think there's a responsibility if you make that 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:47.280 decision then to support the business community. Uh. And nobody 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.520 is looking to to do anything inappropriate here. There should 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.480 be appropriate safeguards in place and a lot of provisions, etcetera. 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:55.800 But I think the losses that take place in this 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.640 period of time that particularly you know, are impacting employment. 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:04.040 And think that's the one really important, uh particular in 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.320 this is that companies are going to get assistance. There 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.080 should be some requirements around maintaining employment, and that is 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.120 what we are proposing as part of the recovery fund. 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:14.440 But if the government needs to step in, these are 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.520 not This is not the consequence of a decision that 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.160 a business man. This is the consequence of a national 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.800 disaster that's taking place, and the government, in all natural disasters, 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.640 to step right. And I would say the same thing 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:27.560 for a Boeing. So forgive me, I'm playing a little 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:29.840 bit Devil's advocate, but you know, these are the responses 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.080 we're certainly hearing, you know, Jason from some of our listeners. Well, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.040 and Tom, I guess, you know, sort of further to 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:39.400 that point, and maybe looking ahead a little bit, given 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.280 what Carol rightly set up as the state of the 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:47.240 retail business, and now given this exogenous, unforeseen event, what 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.480 does the shopping center business look like on the other side? 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.920 Is it certain types of businesses that survive and thrive 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.080 going forward, regardless of what sort of funding comes in. 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.760 I don't know that we really know what the future 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.280 is going to foretell because we don't really know how 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.600 long this crisis is going to last. Right, I do 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:10.840 know that the consequences of this industry not surviving or 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:15.440 being in significant despair are quite bad for the U. 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.640 S economy. Went out of four jobs in America. Retail 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:24.040 related every community as retail is a thriving, central part 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.880 of the community life. It relies upon the tax revenue 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:30.560 that comes from retail, whether it's sales tax and property 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.920 tax revenue. So if you're going to save the US economy, 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.719 you need to save retail. If you're going to have 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:41.760 thriving communities that don't have foreclosed properties and empty storefronts, 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.320 the government needs to lean in. I think that the 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:49.160 issue is very significant and and broad based. It's not 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.600 just the Business Recovery Fund that I've talked about. There's 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.480 a trillion dollars of scar and non secured debt that 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.800 underlies the shopping center industry in of itself. And if 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.640 and this is an industry that depends up on cash flow, 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:09.600 cash flow from retailers to pay property owners would pay right. 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.560 It's also a real estate story, which is an important 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.280 part of also um this economy, so it's all connected. Tommagy, 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.000 thank you so much, Presidency of the International Council of 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.760 Shopping Centers joining us on the phone from New Jersey. 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.640 Really important to check in with the retail sector. Also, 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:29.200 Babby beaten because of the virus. This is Bloomberg Business 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:33.240 Week with Carol Messer and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:35.920 We know global cases of the virus now topping nine 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.920 hundred sixty five thousand, more than forty nine thousand dead. 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.400 This is according to Johns Hopkins. Nations with mandatory TV 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.680 vaccines are showing fewer virus deaths, and meantime, l A 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.080 is urging its city to mascot ball New York, New 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.040 Jersey deaths are doubling in three days. There's your snapshot. 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.240 Let's talk about a little bit more about the virus 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:57.600 and really what we can do from a humanitarian um response. 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.640 Dr Paul Siegel is Directors Center for Humanity Terran Health 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.640 at Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health. Of course, 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:06.960 the Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:11.200 Bloomberg founder, Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Radio, which you're listening 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.000 to right now. Dr Spiegel on the phone from Baltimore. 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:17.560 Dr Spiegel, nice to have you here with us. Um 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.720 talked to us a little bit about this humanitarian response. 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:22.120 I want to ask you a couple of things. But 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.120 I do think we are looking around the world and 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.160 I am concerned too about some spots, whether it's in 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.240 the emerging economies that are going to have a tougher 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.440 time getting this under control, especially while the rest of 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:35.640 the developed world is just struggling to get control of 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:41.960 the virus on their own. Yes, absolutely, And most refugees 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.720 and internally displaced people around the world are living in 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:50.280 such areas of low and middle league countries, and there's 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.200 a big concern that one, how are these countries going 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.400 to respond? And then secondly, how are they going to 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.960 respond to non nationals such as refuge gees. Are these 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.480 groups going to add access to national health systems when 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:08.560 they're going to be overwhelmed for their own nationals? And 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.800 so Dr speak on I mean, one of the things 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:12.920 we we want to understand it when it comes to 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.280 the spread. And Carol was saying, this is we were 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.040 sort of getting ready to talk to you, is we're 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.120 hearing more and more about testing and antibodies and all 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.320 of these things that will help us get to the 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.520 other side of this. I would imagine that in part 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.960 is really going to potentially exacerbate, uh, some of the 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:37.400 divergences here, especially on a humanitarian front. Correct, well, if 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:42.000 you're referring to where testing will occur, I think so certainly. 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.320 I mean, one of one of the concerns is that 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:47.920 as we are and we need to ramp up our 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.880 testing significantly for the virus, but also, as you mentioned, 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:55.320 for antibodies, because those that now have had the virus 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.520 um and have immunity, hopefully we'll be able to go 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.840 back to work and get the economy moving. Many of 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.159 these countries will not have access to those same tests, 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:09.040 and even more so in many of these refugee settings. 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.120 When you look at refugee camps, many of them are 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:16.080 in remote areas. The density of these places are are 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:20.199 very very high, and they won't have access Some have 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.280 access to basic health care, but certainly not to I 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:25.920 c U s and two ventilators. So there's a lot 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.359 of concern about how the spread will occur in those 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:34.400 populations and the lack of testing and lack of care right, 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.280 because in order for us to get this under control, 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.880 I mean, this is where we really do need coordinated 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:45.000 efforts across borders and across countries. I mean that that's 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:46.680 the only way we're going to get this under control. 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:52.000 UM ultimately correct. Yes, And you know, we were just 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.640 talking about this. I was teaching a class of minute ago, 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.760 and we were talking about this issue of the importance 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:04.000 of working altogether yet public health and and also public 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.919 health and human rights and what we are seeing. At 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.080 least in the past, we were taught we should not 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.240 really be or we should not be quarantining, because when 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.520 you looked at HIV and you looked at EOLA, when 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.959 you quarantine people and either forced them to get tests, 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.800 people go underground and move. But this is a different 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:25.520 virus with a different epidemiology, and so much of the 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:30.600 world is quarantining, isolating, social distancing UM to try to 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.880 slow this virus down, particularly when there is no treatment 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.920 and when there is no vaccination. So that may be 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:40.879 correct to be able to do that, but it also 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.320 may have some significant long term effects well beyond just 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.359 icon right and you talk about cultural and ethical issues 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.320 within communities, right, maybe you know that isn't something we 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:52.360 feel so much here in the New York metro area. 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.560 Just got about thirty seconds. But certainly in some of 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:58.960 the emerging world you have elderly with you know, younger populations. 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:03.080 It's just the way it is, just quickly, yeah, exactly. 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:05.959 So we we just are releasing the study looking at 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:10.560 the rhino refugees in Bangladesh and um these populations are 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.680 multi generational and try to socially isolate the elderly will 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.480 be an extreme challenge. All right, well, thank you so much. 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:22.240 This is an interesting perspective on what is a fast 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.520 evolving crisis for sure, and we know, uh for sure 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.400 that it is also global and indiscriminate in a lot 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.800 of ways. Dr Paul Spiegel is director of the Center 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.320 for Humanitarian Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.160 And you can tell by the name probably that school 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.440 is supported by Mike Bloomberg, the founder Bloombergil Bloomberg Philanthropies 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:45.720 and the parent of this radio station. This is Bloomberg 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.840 Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.320 Radio well as we know. The devil is often in 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.280 the details, and that includes and policing the massive two 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.200 trillion dollar stimulus plan that President Trump signed into law 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.680 just last week. Writing about at is Josh Green, national 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.600 correspondent EP Bloomberg Business Week. He joins us on the 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.359 phone from Washington, d C. Also with us is Joe Weber, 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.640 Bloomberg Business Week editor on the phone from Brooklyn. And Joe, 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:15.440 I feel like this is stimulus bailout two point oh, 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:17.639 and I just keep thinking about the financial crisis and 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:20.680 oversight or black thereof Yeah, it's hard, it's hard not to. 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.000 And that's when um, you know, Josh raised his hand 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.000 about this idea, um to to actually go back and 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:29.080 talk to the people who had oversight um the last 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:33.199 time there was um a stimulus like this, And he 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.680 did and and so doing also found out that we 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:41.200 were reminded that um it really didn't have much teeth. Um, Josh, 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.200 who do you talk to? And one they have to say, well, 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:45.840 I talked to most of the people who were on 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.840 the original five member TARP oversight commission. They of course 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:53.400 famously included Elizabeth Warren, but also people like Damon Silver's 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:55.320 from the A F. L c i oh from Republican 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:58.240 Senator Judd Gregg. The one thing they all agreed on 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.880 was that all the attention and that panel got last 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:05.040 time around, we all remember the hearings, the congressional hearings 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.560 where Elizabeth Warren was badgering Tim Guiten and stuff like that, 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:13.359 they didn't have much actual tangible power. What Silver's told 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.359 me was that at the end of the day, all 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:19.000 they really had was the power of public shaming. And 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:20.760 so there was a lot of hope this time around 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:24.480 from Democrats that the panel, the new panel that the 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:29.639 stimulus legislation establishes, would have more significant powers, particularly the 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:33.000 form of subpoena power, but Republicans blocked that, And so 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.000 we're going to run another example, essentially have the same 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.800 panel with the same rules that we did twelve years ago. 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:42.840 I hope that it can do a better job. Well, 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:44.800 And Josh, I do wonder and and you do a 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.480 nice job of this in your story as well as 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.680 always of reminding us that, I mean, we're living in 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:53.159 a very different world, right, I Mean, obviously this is 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.560 a different sort of crisis, but politically it's a different world. 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.760 To what impact does that have you think on how 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:02.200 this all plays out, well, I think it's gonna have 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:03.720 a huge impact. I mean, first of all, if you 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.320 go back to the financial crisis, when the first Bailout 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.600 Oversight Committee was established, Um, that was done under the 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.359 Obama administration or they were, they were the ones in 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:15.080 tower most of the time. And you know, we're more 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:19.040 or less compliant and willing to send officials to testify, 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.000 willing to turn over documents sometimes took a little bit 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.359 of teeth pulling, but but essentially they believe in the 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:29.640 congressional process and and voluntarily sent their people in their 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:33.000 documents in order for the overseers to examine what was 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:35.840 happening with the money. What we've seen from the Trump 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:39.679 administration is a much much different and more hostile stance 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.120 toward Congress. Uh, not only when it comes to stimulus 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:44.640 and that sort of thing, but really on any kind 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:47.640 of congressional oversight. You go back to the Mueller probe, 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:51.439