Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly. We're here every day bringing you the latest
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Speaker 1: only on Bloomberg Radio. As we said, a blockbuster show ahead,
Speaker 1: let's kick it off. Stanley Bergman with us, the chairman
Speaker 1: and the CEO of Henry Shine, joining us on the
Speaker 1: phone from New York, right in the thick of it,
Speaker 1: and really with something that could be a game changer.
Speaker 1: It's fair to say, Carol Stanley, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us. Sure, thank you so help us understand
Speaker 1: what you're working on, because it involves antibodies. As I
Speaker 1: understand it, what does that mean as we fight COVID nineteen. So,
Speaker 1: Henry Shine is the largest provider of products to what
Speaker 1: we call office space health care practitioners, that's dentists and
Speaker 1: physicians outside of the acute care setting, in the private setting,
Speaker 1: and in that context, we have for years been focused
Speaker 1: on what's called points of care rapid tests. These are
Speaker 1: tests like the flu vaccine or even a pregnancy test
Speaker 1: that is conducted in the doctor's office. And so we
Speaker 1: started looking about six weeks ago around the world for
Speaker 1: what's called points of care rapid tests for the coronavirus,
Speaker 1: and uh that would just uh give you a little thought,
Speaker 1: and that is that testing for the coronavirus is not
Speaker 1: like a pregnancy test. It's not yes or no. There
Speaker 1: are three kinds of tests that need to be used
Speaker 1: in unison to diagnose a particular patient. And the first
Speaker 1: is what's called a PCR test. This is a molecular
Speaker 1: test that is really good to diagnose a patient in
Speaker 1: the first two days, the first seven days or so.
Speaker 1: The second is what's called an antigen test, which is
Speaker 1: early diagnosis somewhere to mid stage diagnosis between five and
Speaker 1: ten days. And the third is the antibody which is
Speaker 1: a blood test which is good to determine if you
Speaker 1: had had the virus or not. Have to really be
Speaker 1: administered by somebody in the physician's office, or it could
Speaker 1: even be a paramidt but interpreted by a physician. I'm
Speaker 1: not a physician, I'm not a public health person. I'm
Speaker 1: giving you a summary of what tess happened, but what
Speaker 1: could happen and these need to be reviewed, an understanding
Speaker 1: of the patient, of symptoms, the history, and other and
Speaker 1: other kinds of a test that have been done. These
Speaker 1: antibody tests are available pretty soon and we'll be able
Speaker 1: to help patients understand where they've had the disease or Stanley.
Speaker 1: I'm going to jump in only just because we have
Speaker 1: about four minutes left. I think what the work you
Speaker 1: folks are doing, we think it's really important that people
Speaker 1: have an understanding of it because it could potentially help
Speaker 1: us get people back to work sooner. It's about the
Speaker 1: presence of finding out if if the presence of antibiodies
Speaker 1: are there, and it means a person might be immune
Speaker 1: from getting the virus in the in the future, so
Speaker 1: that's that's key. Though we still don't know that about
Speaker 1: this virus. Is that correct? Yes, it doesn't mean you
Speaker 1: will never get it to game. I think these tests
Speaker 1: have a little bit misunderstood in the sense that they
Speaker 1: sound very simple. You need to go through and understand
Speaker 1: what I just said and then speak to your physician.
Speaker 1: But clearly, these antibody tests, the blood tests, of sourology
Speaker 1: tests prick no equipment needed, available in fifteen minutes, are
Speaker 1: very very helpful in bringing America back to work and
Speaker 1: particularly testing the frontline healthcare providers and for example e
Speaker 1: MPT at police people. But are they accurate in that
Speaker 1: if they show there's a presence of antibodies, that there
Speaker 1: is no chance of a person getting the coronavirus. Again, well,
Speaker 1: first of all, mone these tests are hundred percent accurate.
Speaker 1: Nor is the PCR test or any of these This
Speaker 1: is where in the early stage of diagnosing the disease.
Speaker 1: Uh uh, and so none of these tests a hundred
Speaker 1: percent foolproof. Having said that, these tests worked working together
Speaker 1: can help the physician make decisions of whether somebody can
Speaker 1: go back to work or not. These are not tests
Speaker 1: that are fool proof. Unfortunately, don't have any that are
Speaker 1: foolproof yet. And so how quickly does this get out
Speaker 1: and in what sort of volume? Stanley, Well, we expect
Speaker 1: to have product production available. We have at the moment
Speaker 1: to one being a Korean supplier and the other one
Speaker 1: being b D from the United States, and we're betting
Speaker 1: Dickinson and we respect to have these products available in
Speaker 1: the next week or so, in hundreds of thousands and
Speaker 1: then likely in moments. And how they be distributed. You're
Speaker 1: working with the administration to get this done. What's the
Speaker 1: process to get them out there? No, these tests will
Speaker 1: be available to physicians and to hospitals and they can
Speaker 1: be bought from Henry Shine to our normal medical channel. Uh.
Speaker 1: At the moment, I think the demand is more for
Speaker 1: the PC artists, which has been around for a while
Speaker 1: and known, and gradually I think the knowledge about emptibody
Speaker 1: prology blood tests will become known and the product will
Speaker 1: become more and more sought after. But at the moment,
Speaker 1: of course, we have not shipped any yet, but we're
Speaker 1: taking orders and we will deliver tests two. Primarily we
Speaker 1: will focus on hospitals or tooth care and physician officers.
Speaker 1: We're talking with Stanley Bergman, the chairman and cy of
Speaker 1: Henry Shine. So Stanley, as you know, the key thing
Speaker 1: with antibioties is that they tell us how many people
Speaker 1: were infected. That is the number who have recovered or
Speaker 1: produced antibodies suggesting that they have fought off the virus.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious if you have any idea any results
Speaker 1: that have come back so far that gives you an
Speaker 1: idea of what proportion of the population is turning up
Speaker 1: antibody positive. Yeah. Unfortunately these tests are relatively used. Testing
Speaker 1: patterns are not well known, but the TISTS has been
Speaker 1: used one in Korea and one in China with pretty
Speaker 1: good results. But of course we have no studies yet
Speaker 1: of any scale. In the United States, studies are being
Speaker 1: conducted and the public, many of them are studying this
Speaker 1: particular tests and how to use it. But we're dealing
Speaker 1: with technology that's brand needs in the United States. And
Speaker 1: part of the reason only yet about thirty seconds left here, Stanley,
Speaker 1: is we need to know whether this is seasonal ultimately,
Speaker 1: whether we're going to be living with this for quite
Speaker 1: some time. So we need to know whether people are
Speaker 1: are essentially, if not immune, at least have had it
Speaker 1: and are building up those Anybody's right, ye, us what
Speaker 1: we need these tests to help us to determine patents,
Speaker 1: and we can use these tests to help us determine
Speaker 1: what's the patson UH of impact on society in general,
Speaker 1: and these will be very very helpful. We expect them
Speaker 1: to be very very helpful to public help officials as
Speaker 1: they diagnosed, will determine where the trends are heading. Right. Well,
Speaker 1: you're definitely doing really important work and we look forward
Speaker 1: to hearing more, especially as you start shipping out more
Speaker 1: those tests and the results are coming coming back. Stanley Bergman,
Speaker 1: thank you, Thank you, Chairman and Chief executive officer at
Speaker 1: Henry Shine. Joining us on the phone in New York City.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason
Speaker 1: Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. We know it is just a fact, Carol,
Speaker 1: that retail, shopping, restaurants, all of it just absolutely getting obliterated.
Speaker 1: Uh here, Fortunate for us we have someone to help understand,
Speaker 1: help us understand this. Tom mcgheek, President and CEO of
Speaker 1: International Council of Shopping Centers, joining us on the phone
Speaker 1: from New Jersey. Tom, I know it's a very busy
Speaker 1: time for you. We really appreciate you spending some time
Speaker 1: with Carolin myself. Thanks for having me on. Happy to
Speaker 1: be here. So I want to jump right in and
Speaker 1: ask you about something that came up in a conversation
Speaker 1: we had yesterday with none other than Danielle Blue, talking
Speaker 1: well known restaurateur obviously talking about this notion of business
Speaker 1: interruption coverage. It is something he is fighting for. I
Speaker 1: know it's something you are intensely uh focused on as well.
Speaker 1: Where are we on that as it relates to what
Speaker 1: the government may or may not do? Yeah, well, uh,
Speaker 1: we are focused on that issue. I mean we are
Speaker 1: in the midst of a national crisis. I mean, effectively
Speaker 1: the US economy is shut down. We are part of
Speaker 1: a broad coalition that has advanced the solution for the
Speaker 1: government to hopefully serve as the framework for the next
Speaker 1: COVID relief package that will come out, and there will
Speaker 1: necessarily net out of necessity, be another package. While the
Speaker 1: CARES Act was was a good first step, it was
Speaker 1: really just a first step. And the coalition that we're
Speaker 1: a part of and actively involved in, believes the government
Speaker 1: should put together a Business Continuity and Recovery Fund fully
Speaker 1: funded by the US government UH to fundamentally backstop losses
Speaker 1: that are taking place during this national crisis. And we
Speaker 1: um we believe that the only entity that has a
Speaker 1: balance sheet big enough to sustain the kind of losses
Speaker 1: that are taking place right now is the US government,
Speaker 1: and so we're hopeful. Um, you know, conversations are ongoing. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Congress is not in session right now, so nothing will
Speaker 1: happen until they come back into session. But we are
Speaker 1: advancing that, and the coalition as broad and includes participants
Speaker 1: from the assurance industry to folks like ourselves, to folks
Speaker 1: in the retail and restaurant industry and everything in between.
Speaker 1: Is tough. Yeah, let me just jump in for a second.
Speaker 1: So small retail businesses I'm assuming are covered under the
Speaker 1: bailout for small businesses, correct. I mean, I think there's
Speaker 1: some three billion that came out of that massive stimulus.
Speaker 1: So I'm assuming you're not talking about those kinds of retail.
Speaker 1: You're talking about the bigger names, right and the publicly
Speaker 1: held names. I'm talking about virtually companies of every size
Speaker 1: and scale in every industry. You're correct. In the Cares
Speaker 1: Act there was a provision to help small business. But
Speaker 1: but honestly, I mean, the scale of that, while historic
Speaker 1: in nature, two trillion dollars to spend is not all
Speaker 1: that significant given the scale of what's taking place right now,
Speaker 1: and I think that that Small Business UM package, although
Speaker 1: well intentioned, will not be sufficient for what's taking place.
Speaker 1: And as I said, it is really just the first step, right,
Speaker 1: and we do expect there to be a phase four,
Speaker 1: phase five and probably you know, help on the other
Speaker 1: side once we get out of the virus and help
Speaker 1: me out here, because I think, you know, our listeners
Speaker 1: are going to be asking this question, what do you
Speaker 1: do with retailers that came into this in a pretty
Speaker 1: weakened state, whether it's a Macy's that has been having
Speaker 1: a tough time for years, I mean, why should they
Speaker 1: get some assistance? Well, first and foremost, you know, I
Speaker 1: think that this is not like any other crisis that
Speaker 1: we've had in the past economic crisis. This isn't about
Speaker 1: businesses that did or did not make wise business decisions.
Speaker 1: What's fundamentally happened is that the government, and for it
Speaker 1: are all right reasons for the right public health and
Speaker 1: safety actions, has basically placed the economy and time out UM.
Speaker 1: And I think there's a responsibility if you make that
Speaker 1: decision then to support the business community. Uh. And nobody
Speaker 1: is looking to to do anything inappropriate here. There should
Speaker 1: be appropriate safeguards in place and a lot of provisions, etcetera.
Speaker 1: But I think the losses that take place in this
Speaker 1: period of time that particularly you know, are impacting employment.
Speaker 1: And think that's the one really important, uh particular in
Speaker 1: this is that companies are going to get assistance. There
Speaker 1: should be some requirements around maintaining employment, and that is
Speaker 1: what we are proposing as part of the recovery fund.
Speaker 1: But if the government needs to step in, these are
Speaker 1: not This is not the consequence of a decision that
Speaker 1: a business man. This is the consequence of a national
Speaker 1: disaster that's taking place, and the government, in all natural disasters,
Speaker 1: to step right. And I would say the same thing
Speaker 1: for a Boeing. So forgive me, I'm playing a little
Speaker 1: bit Devil's advocate, but you know, these are the responses
Speaker 1: we're certainly hearing, you know, Jason from some of our listeners. Well,
Speaker 1: and Tom, I guess, you know, sort of further to
Speaker 1: that point, and maybe looking ahead a little bit, given
Speaker 1: what Carol rightly set up as the state of the
Speaker 1: retail business, and now given this exogenous, unforeseen event, what
Speaker 1: does the shopping center business look like on the other side?
Speaker 1: Is it certain types of businesses that survive and thrive
Speaker 1: going forward, regardless of what sort of funding comes in.
Speaker 1: I don't know that we really know what the future
Speaker 1: is going to foretell because we don't really know how
Speaker 1: long this crisis is going to last. Right, I do
Speaker 1: know that the consequences of this industry not surviving or
Speaker 1: being in significant despair are quite bad for the U.
Speaker 1: S economy. Went out of four jobs in America. Retail
Speaker 1: related every community as retail is a thriving, central part
Speaker 1: of the community life. It relies upon the tax revenue
Speaker 1: that comes from retail, whether it's sales tax and property
Speaker 1: tax revenue. So if you're going to save the US economy,
Speaker 1: you need to save retail. If you're going to have
Speaker 1: thriving communities that don't have foreclosed properties and empty storefronts,
Speaker 1: the government needs to lean in. I think that the
Speaker 1: issue is very significant and and broad based. It's not
Speaker 1: just the Business Recovery Fund that I've talked about. There's
Speaker 1: a trillion dollars of scar and non secured debt that
Speaker 1: underlies the shopping center industry in of itself. And if
Speaker 1: and this is an industry that depends up on cash flow,
Speaker 1: cash flow from retailers to pay property owners would pay right.
Speaker 1: It's also a real estate story, which is an important
Speaker 1: part of also um this economy, so it's all connected. Tommagy,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Presidency of the International Council of
Speaker 1: Shopping Centers joining us on the phone from New Jersey.
Speaker 1: Really important to check in with the retail sector. Also,
Speaker 1: Babby beaten because of the virus. This is Bloomberg Business
Speaker 1: Week with Carol Messer and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: We know global cases of the virus now topping nine
Speaker 1: hundred sixty five thousand, more than forty nine thousand dead.
Speaker 1: This is according to Johns Hopkins. Nations with mandatory TV
Speaker 1: vaccines are showing fewer virus deaths, and meantime, l A
Speaker 1: is urging its city to mascot ball New York, New
Speaker 1: Jersey deaths are doubling in three days. There's your snapshot.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about a little bit more about the virus
Speaker 1: and really what we can do from a humanitarian um response.
Speaker 1: Dr Paul Siegel is Directors Center for Humanity Terran Health
Speaker 1: at Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health. Of course,
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R.
Speaker 1: Bloomberg founder, Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Radio, which you're listening
Speaker 1: to right now. Dr Spiegel on the phone from Baltimore.
Speaker 1: Dr Spiegel, nice to have you here with us. Um
Speaker 1: talked to us a little bit about this humanitarian response.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a couple of things. But
Speaker 1: I do think we are looking around the world and
Speaker 1: I am concerned too about some spots, whether it's in
Speaker 1: the emerging economies that are going to have a tougher
Speaker 1: time getting this under control, especially while the rest of
Speaker 1: the developed world is just struggling to get control of
Speaker 1: the virus on their own. Yes, absolutely, And most refugees
Speaker 1: and internally displaced people around the world are living in
Speaker 1: such areas of low and middle league countries, and there's
Speaker 1: a big concern that one, how are these countries going
Speaker 1: to respond? And then secondly, how are they going to
Speaker 1: respond to non nationals such as refuge gees. Are these
Speaker 1: groups going to add access to national health systems when
Speaker 1: they're going to be overwhelmed for their own nationals? And
Speaker 1: so Dr speak on I mean, one of the things
Speaker 1: we we want to understand it when it comes to
Speaker 1: the spread. And Carol was saying, this is we were
Speaker 1: sort of getting ready to talk to you, is we're
Speaker 1: hearing more and more about testing and antibodies and all
Speaker 1: of these things that will help us get to the
Speaker 1: other side of this. I would imagine that in part
Speaker 1: is really going to potentially exacerbate, uh, some of the
Speaker 1: divergences here, especially on a humanitarian front. Correct, well, if
Speaker 1: you're referring to where testing will occur, I think so certainly.
Speaker 1: I mean, one of one of the concerns is that
Speaker 1: as we are and we need to ramp up our
Speaker 1: testing significantly for the virus, but also, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: for antibodies, because those that now have had the virus
Speaker 1: um and have immunity, hopefully we'll be able to go
Speaker 1: back to work and get the economy moving. Many of
Speaker 1: these countries will not have access to those same tests,
Speaker 1: and even more so in many of these refugee settings.
Speaker 1: When you look at refugee camps, many of them are
Speaker 1: in remote areas. The density of these places are are
Speaker 1: very very high, and they won't have access Some have
Speaker 1: access to basic health care, but certainly not to I
Speaker 1: c U s and two ventilators. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: of concern about how the spread will occur in those
Speaker 1: populations and the lack of testing and lack of care right,
Speaker 1: because in order for us to get this under control,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is where we really do need coordinated
Speaker 1: efforts across borders and across countries. I mean that that's
Speaker 1: the only way we're going to get this under control.
Speaker 1: UM ultimately correct. Yes, And you know, we were just
Speaker 1: talking about this. I was teaching a class of minute ago,
Speaker 1: and we were talking about this issue of the importance
Speaker 1: of working altogether yet public health and and also public
Speaker 1: health and human rights and what we are seeing. At
Speaker 1: least in the past, we were taught we should not
Speaker 1: really be or we should not be quarantining, because when
Speaker 1: you looked at HIV and you looked at EOLA, when
Speaker 1: you quarantine people and either forced them to get tests,
Speaker 1: people go underground and move. But this is a different
Speaker 1: virus with a different epidemiology, and so much of the
Speaker 1: world is quarantining, isolating, social distancing UM to try to
Speaker 1: slow this virus down, particularly when there is no treatment
Speaker 1: and when there is no vaccination. So that may be
Speaker 1: correct to be able to do that, but it also
Speaker 1: may have some significant long term effects well beyond just
Speaker 1: icon right and you talk about cultural and ethical issues
Speaker 1: within communities, right, maybe you know that isn't something we
Speaker 1: feel so much here in the New York metro area.
Speaker 1: Just got about thirty seconds. But certainly in some of
Speaker 1: the emerging world you have elderly with you know, younger populations.
Speaker 1: It's just the way it is, just quickly, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So we we just are releasing the study looking at
Speaker 1: the rhino refugees in Bangladesh and um these populations are
Speaker 1: multi generational and try to socially isolate the elderly will
Speaker 1: be an extreme challenge. All right, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: This is an interesting perspective on what is a fast
Speaker 1: evolving crisis for sure, and we know, uh for sure
Speaker 1: that it is also global and indiscriminate in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways. Dr Paul Spiegel is director of the Center
Speaker 1: for Humanitarian Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
Speaker 1: And you can tell by the name probably that school
Speaker 1: is supported by Mike Bloomberg, the founder Bloombergil Bloomberg Philanthropies
Speaker 1: and the parent of this radio station. This is Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Radio well as we know. The devil is often in
Speaker 1: the details, and that includes and policing the massive two
Speaker 1: trillion dollar stimulus plan that President Trump signed into law
Speaker 1: just last week. Writing about at is Josh Green, national
Speaker 1: correspondent EP Bloomberg Business Week. He joins us on the
Speaker 1: phone from Washington, d C. Also with us is Joe Weber,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week editor on the phone from Brooklyn. And Joe,
Speaker 1: I feel like this is stimulus bailout two point oh,
Speaker 1: and I just keep thinking about the financial crisis and
Speaker 1: oversight or black thereof Yeah, it's hard, it's hard not to.
Speaker 1: And that's when um, you know, Josh raised his hand
Speaker 1: about this idea, um to to actually go back and
Speaker 1: talk to the people who had oversight um the last
Speaker 1: time there was um a stimulus like this, And he
Speaker 1: did and and so doing also found out that we
Speaker 1: were reminded that um it really didn't have much teeth. Um, Josh,
Speaker 1: who do you talk to? And one they have to say, well,
Speaker 1: I talked to most of the people who were on
Speaker 1: the original five member TARP oversight commission. They of course
Speaker 1: famously included Elizabeth Warren, but also people like Damon Silver's
Speaker 1: from the A F. L c i oh from Republican
Speaker 1: Senator Judd Gregg. The one thing they all agreed on
Speaker 1: was that all the attention and that panel got last
Speaker 1: time around, we all remember the hearings, the congressional hearings
Speaker 1: where Elizabeth Warren was badgering Tim Guiten and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: they didn't have much actual tangible power. What Silver's told
Speaker 1: me was that at the end of the day, all
Speaker 1: they really had was the power of public shaming. And
Speaker 1: so there was a lot of hope this time around
Speaker 1: from Democrats that the panel, the new panel that the
Speaker 1: stimulus legislation establishes, would have more significant powers, particularly the
Speaker 1: form of subpoena power, but Republicans blocked that, And so
Speaker 1: we're going to run another example, essentially have the same
Speaker 1: panel with the same rules that we did twelve years ago.
Speaker 1: I hope that it can do a better job. Well,
Speaker 1: And Josh, I do wonder and and you do a
Speaker 1: nice job of this in your story as well as
Speaker 1: always of reminding us that, I mean, we're living in
Speaker 1: a very different world, right, I Mean, obviously this is
Speaker 1: a different sort of crisis, but politically it's a different world.
Speaker 1: To what impact does that have you think on how
Speaker 1: this all plays out, well, I think it's gonna have
Speaker 1: a huge impact. I mean, first of all, if you
Speaker 1: go back to the financial crisis, when the first Bailout
Speaker 1: Oversight Committee was established, Um, that was done under the
Speaker 1: Obama administration or they were, they were the ones in
Speaker 1: tower most of the time. And you know, we're more
Speaker 1: or less compliant and willing to send officials to testify,
Speaker 1: willing to turn over documents sometimes took a little bit
Speaker 1: of teeth pulling, but but essentially they believe in the
Speaker 1: congressional process and and voluntarily sent their people in their
Speaker 1: documents in order for the overseers to examine what was
Speaker 1: happening with the money. What we've seen from the Trump
Speaker 1: administration is a much much different and more hostile stance
Speaker 1: toward Congress. Uh, not only when it comes to stimulus
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, but really on any kind
Speaker 1: of congressional oversight. You go back to the Mueller probe,
Speaker 1: you can go back to the impeachment stuff, and it
Speaker 1: isn't just turned down requests for information from Congress, but
Speaker 1: fighting subpoenas. And so the concern I heard from a
Speaker 1: lot of people was that if you if you institute
Speaker 1: a system that is essentially voluntary, and that's what this
Speaker 1: new oversight board is going to be. It it requires
Speaker 1: a willingness on the part of the administration to go
Speaker 1: along with it, and everything we have seen suggests that
Speaker 1: that's not going to happen, including within hours after Trump
Speaker 1: signing off on the stimulus bill, he issued what's known
Speaker 1: as a signing statement saying that he did not recognize
Speaker 1: the authority of the Special Inspector General it's supposed to
Speaker 1: be overseeing the stimulus uh, and that the government wouldn't
Speaker 1: release any information, wouldn't allow the Special Inspector General to
Speaker 1: release any information unless the President had signed off on
Speaker 1: it first. And as we know, um, Trump doesn't really
Speaker 1: enjoy scrutiny from time. Well, that's what's wild in your
Speaker 1: store you set upon signing the bill, he immediately the
Speaker 1: President moved a curb the power of this Special Inspector General. Um.
Speaker 1: So immediately the power of it was restrained. Correct, Yes
Speaker 1: it was. And and that's something that a lot of
Speaker 1: Democrats were worried about, because what you have here and
Speaker 1: what I focused on was the five hund billion dollar
Speaker 1: bailout funds gonna go to large corporations. Is that the
Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary, Stephen the Nuchon, has an enormous amount of
Speaker 1: latitude as far as where he wants to direct this money.
Speaker 1: Democrats are afraid it's going to go to Trump friendly companies,
Speaker 1: even even companies that might be owned part by his children.
Speaker 1: There may be all sorts of shenanigans, And if they
Speaker 1: don't have subpoena power, and if they don't have an
Speaker 1: inspector general to be able to follow the money, that
Speaker 1: essentially it will turn into a program of favoritism and
Speaker 1: not one that directs the money to the corporations that
Speaker 1: most need help right now in the midst of this recession.
Speaker 1: Well go ahead, John, Yeah, But just to be fair
Speaker 1: here too, and Josh points this out in his story,
Speaker 1: it wasn't like the Obama administration were innocent in this
Speaker 1: regard either. Perhaps Trump is going to another level here
Speaker 1: by by um by restricting some of of potential here.
Speaker 1: But the you know, the people that Josh talked to
Speaker 1: all since of the administration weren't angels either, right, And
Speaker 1: in fact, I think one of one of the economists
Speaker 1: I talked to who was on the panel said, in fact,
Speaker 1: I'm quoting from my own p series said getting the
Speaker 1: Obama administration to turn over documents was like pulling teeth.
Speaker 1: We got pushed back all the time. So this isn't
Speaker 1: an easy process, the oversight process, even in the best
Speaker 1: of times. And obviously that's that's what times. Last time
Speaker 1: we got Elizabeth Warren actually out of all of this, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and and you were right to point down
Speaker 1: out and this time, who might we get How do
Speaker 1: these how do these panelts get to get selected? Well,
Speaker 1: that's a great question. What the legislation said last time
Speaker 1: and this time is that each of the congressional leaders,
Speaker 1: Speaker of the House, Minority leaders, Speaker of the Senate
Speaker 1: minority leader there gets to choose one, and then the
Speaker 1: fifth and final person will be chosen jointly by Nancy
Speaker 1: Pelosi and Mitch McConnell. The fear that a lot of
Speaker 1: people had, including former participants that I talked to, was
Speaker 1: that the process would become politicized. Some of the people
Speaker 1: in the panel didn't like the fact that Warren was
Speaker 1: this crusading liberal holding banks to account. I think the
Speaker 1: success of the committee will depend a great deal on
Speaker 1: who actually winds up being appointed to it and whether
Speaker 1: or not they can get along, because if they can't,
Speaker 1: then there really is no hope of having effective oversight
Speaker 1: over this Dale album. Well, and Joel, I also think
Speaker 1: about the idea. And you guys have done such a
Speaker 1: great job in the magazine covering this. This isn't about
Speaker 1: you know, sort of propping up a few banks or
Speaker 1: you know, getting some money to Wall Street and financial institutions.
Speaker 1: These are this is companies across the country, across all
Speaker 1: sorts of industries. This is a big complicated job, right. Oh,
Speaker 1: and that's why the you know, the size of this
Speaker 1: plot that josh Um is writing about. You know, the
Speaker 1: five billion that basically falls under Minutian's control is going
Speaker 1: to be such an important part of this. And you know,
Speaker 1: the Small Business Association and those loans will start to
Speaker 1: probably you know, people who start applying for those tomorrow. Like,
Speaker 1: all of this will will lead to places that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, accountability and oversight are going to be dramatically
Speaker 1: important and we're just at the beginning of that. How
Speaker 1: that will all unfold. Well, and it's such a good
Speaker 1: point considering we just talked to the President UH and
Speaker 1: CEO of the International Council of shopping centers. They too,
Speaker 1: are looking for assistance for all of the big retail names.
Speaker 1: So you know that this pot could potentially grow um
Speaker 1: larger and larger. Jill Webber, thank you so much, editor
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Business Week, joining us from Brooklyn. Josh Green,
Speaker 1: national correspondent at Bloomberg Business Week, on the phone from Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. Broom Morow the Journal. Yeah, but you let
Speaker 1: me drive? Oh no, no, no, please, I'll do the
Speaker 1: right I want to drive. Just drive, good question. Try
Speaker 1: this is the drive to the globe. Thanks. We'll drying
Speaker 1: us down Bloomberg Radio. It is time for the drive
Speaker 1: to the close back with us. As Eric Clark, portfolio
Speaker 1: manager at Rational Dynamic Brands fun his Rational Dynamic Brands fund. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's down for the year, but it's still beating just
Speaker 1: about all of its peers this year and in the
Speaker 1: past year, as well as over the past three years.
Speaker 1: It's up on average more than six percent annually. Eric
Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from San Francisco. Eric, nice
Speaker 1: to have you here with us. First of all, how
Speaker 1: San Francisco, how are you doing doing? Okay? Actually I'm
Speaker 1: down in San Diego where it's warm and uh that's
Speaker 1: a good thing right now. So we're just hunkering down
Speaker 1: as most people are, and you know we're we're we
Speaker 1: love to adapt as human beings, and so what do
Speaker 1: you see and from a response perspective there across California,
Speaker 1: we've been hearing a lot from Governor new So we've
Speaker 1: been playing some of that that he's been saying on
Speaker 1: his show. Obviously an incredibly diverse state. Economically, it's something
Speaker 1: like the second seventh, i should say, biggest economy in
Speaker 1: the world overall. What's the sort of net economic effect
Speaker 1: is You can see it just as a business person
Speaker 1: and as well as a consumer. Well you know, listen,
Speaker 1: it's clear small business is any you know, kind of
Speaker 1: in trouble. Short term the when when you shut an
Speaker 1: economy down, a twenty trillion dollar economy down, there are
Speaker 1: going to be some uh you know, some short term effects,
Speaker 1: some lasting effects depending on people's balance sheets, and you know,
Speaker 1: it does allow a cleansing of bad ideas that we're
Speaker 1: just there for the bull market in the economy and
Speaker 1: and and bad ideas. So you know, it's it's just uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just one of those things that that
Speaker 1: that happens at the end of the cycle when we
Speaker 1: clean out the good and or the bad and and
Speaker 1: then you know, the good ultimately takes more. Markets here
Speaker 1: are coming out the other end. So Eric talked to
Speaker 1: us about your portfolio. You know, we often get into
Speaker 1: names with you Amazon's, They're Microsoft's there, Ali baba. I
Speaker 1: mean you go after you know, as the as the
Speaker 1: fun is entitled dynamic brands. What have you done differently?
Speaker 1: I mean, have you done some buying as the market
Speaker 1: has been beaten up and some of these names became
Speaker 1: a lot less expensive than they were prior to the
Speaker 1: outbreak of the virus. Absolutely. I mean, you know, we
Speaker 1: have always been tactical in our nature, and so you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not a buy and hold type in general, but
Speaker 1: particularly this kind of market, you have to be a
Speaker 1: little bit tactical. Um and so when the market, you know,
Speaker 1: just plunges, you have to do, you know, go to
Speaker 1: your research and identify which brands you think are a
Speaker 1: sustainable in the short term, but also we're going to
Speaker 1: come out the other end even stronger. And those are
Speaker 1: the names that we've really focused on, which is why
Speaker 1: you have Amazon being the biggest holding by far. You know,
Speaker 1: We've ordered a much more Amazon than we have before,
Speaker 1: and we ordered Amazon a lot to begin with. And
Speaker 1: I suspect a lot of people are doing the same
Speaker 1: when when they're having to stay home. So we've been
Speaker 1: tactical around the core. So that means you've been buying,
Speaker 1: You've been adding to the Amazon position. Absolutely, absolutely, we've
Speaker 1: we've we bought about two points lower. You know, we
Speaker 1: have been kind of you know, trim the top end
Speaker 1: of the range in the market and add to the
Speaker 1: bottom of the range, all while the core portfolio kind
Speaker 1: of does what it does, just being tactical around the core,
Speaker 1: trying to add a little out for there. And so
Speaker 1: Eric talk about you know, how you invest looking to
Speaker 1: the bounce back. We all know it's going to come
Speaker 1: in some former fashion at some point. The when is
Speaker 1: obviously the game, but how do you look at those names?
Speaker 1: And again, these are brands I'm guessing that we've talked
Speaker 1: about before on this program that stand to benefit when
Speaker 1: people are as it were sort of unleashed again. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean, for at first, it's who has the quality
Speaker 1: balance sheet to be able to sustain a slowdown for
Speaker 1: a period of time, And you know, for for the
Speaker 1: most part, we've kind of gotten rid of those names.
Speaker 1: There are a few that I still think I have
Speaker 1: some asymmetric opportunity, so I'm willing to hold on. But
Speaker 1: you know those names that we really like from a
Speaker 1: pent up energy. You know, consumers were social and we
Speaker 1: like to spend, and when you take both of those
Speaker 1: things away, there is this pent up energy that builds
Speaker 1: and at some point I liken it to a glass jar.
Speaker 1: As soon as you start turning the jar and take
Speaker 1: off the top of that jar, there's going to be
Speaker 1: a lot of energy released. And at that point, those
Speaker 1: are the names you're gonna want to return to. What
Speaker 1: have I not been able to do that? I just
Speaker 1: love to do. I want my latte at Starbucks and
Speaker 1: I want to I've been exercising more so Nike comes
Speaker 1: to mind for sure. Well, what's interesting too, There was
Speaker 1: a report app by Mofatt Nathanson today talked about Visa
Speaker 1: and master Card and said that um the downside from
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen now looks worse than previously expected, and that
Speaker 1: updates from both offered quote sobering figures, implying a truly
Speaker 1: unprecedented deterioration in consumers spending despite the flurry of panic
Speaker 1: buying and shift to online purchasing. So if you see,
Speaker 1: I mean, Visa is actually up today. But I mean,
Speaker 1: if you see some blips in these names, will you
Speaker 1: be adding to it? You're not worried about the long
Speaker 1: term outlook here? And have you been adding? Have you
Speaker 1: been adding to Visa? Yeah? We have, we we added
Speaker 1: to Visa. Um the trend away from money, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen the numbers two and the reports.
Speaker 1: You know, paper money carries more of the virus than anything.
Speaker 1: So I mean, if if anything, your credit card is
Speaker 1: just a better, a better safety thing through this. But
Speaker 1: but that trend of using our our visas and a
Speaker 1: master cards in American expresses and e commerce is only
Speaker 1: going to be enhanced through this. And Nike said that
Speaker 1: on their conference call a week or two ago that
Speaker 1: you know, small percent of genn e commerce, they consider
Speaker 1: that to to grow by you know, kind of exponential,
Speaker 1: just given the way that people's behavior is changing. And
Speaker 1: once we do that, we're probably not going to go
Speaker 1: back to some old behavior. And so that's our job
Speaker 1: to figure out where, you know, who's the big beneficiaries
Speaker 1: of that kind of thing. And I love Visa and
Speaker 1: master Card. I still love PayPal. I'd love to own
Speaker 1: American Express. It's just a little too tied to travel,
Speaker 1: so I'm kind of waiting on that one a little
Speaker 1: bit for now. Really interesting. We love talking names with you,
Speaker 1: Eric Clark. I really appreciate a portfolio manager. Portfolio manager
Speaker 1: excuse me for Rational Dynamic Brands fund. We talked a
Speaker 1: lot of about a lot about some good brands I
Speaker 1: know and having trouble speaking um. And then in case
Speaker 1: he joined us on the phone from Sandy Ago. Always
Speaker 1: get to catch up with him. And as you say, Carol,
Speaker 1: as you said at the top, one of the best
Speaker 1: performers out there, so worth a listen for sure. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. You can subscribe to
Speaker 1: the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. You
Speaker 1: can also listen to our radio show every weekday at
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