1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: Jason Kelly. We're here every day bringing you the latest 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: all harnessing the power of Bloomberg Business Week reporters and editors, 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: not to mention our journalists and analysts more than a 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty countries. You can download Bloomberg Business Week 7 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. You can also 8 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: listen to our radio show weekdays at two pm Eastern 9 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: only on Bloomberg Radio. As we said, a blockbuster show ahead, 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: let's kick it off. Stanley Bergman with us, the chairman 11 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: and the CEO of Henry Shine, joining us on the 12 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: phone from New York, right in the thick of it, 13 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: and really with something that could be a game changer. 14 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 1: It's fair to say, Carol Stanley, thank you so much 15 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: for joining us. Sure, thank you so help us understand 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: what you're working on, because it involves antibodies. As I 17 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: understand it, what does that mean as we fight COVID nineteen. So, 18 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: Henry Shine is the largest provider of products to what 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: we call office space health care practitioners, that's dentists and 20 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: physicians outside of the acute care setting, in the private setting, 21 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: and in that context, we have for years been focused 22 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: on what's called points of care rapid tests. These are 23 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: tests like the flu vaccine or even a pregnancy test 24 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: that is conducted in the doctor's office. And so we 25 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: started looking about six weeks ago around the world for 26 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: what's called points of care rapid tests for the coronavirus, 27 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: and uh that would just uh give you a little thought, 28 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: and that is that testing for the coronavirus is not 29 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: like a pregnancy test. It's not yes or no. There 30 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: are three kinds of tests that need to be used 31 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,639 Speaker 1: in unison to diagnose a particular patient. And the first 32 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: is what's called a PCR test. This is a molecular 33 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: test that is really good to diagnose a patient in 34 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: the first two days, the first seven days or so. 35 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: The second is what's called an antigen test, which is 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: early diagnosis somewhere to mid stage diagnosis between five and 37 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: ten days. And the third is the antibody which is 38 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: a blood test which is good to determine if you 39 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: had had the virus or not. Have to really be 40 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: administered by somebody in the physician's office, or it could 41 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: even be a paramidt but interpreted by a physician. I'm 42 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: not a physician, I'm not a public health person. I'm 43 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: giving you a summary of what tess happened, but what 44 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: could happen and these need to be reviewed, an understanding 45 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: of the patient, of symptoms, the history, and other and 46 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: other kinds of a test that have been done. These 47 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: antibody tests are available pretty soon and we'll be able 48 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: to help patients understand where they've had the disease or Stanley. 49 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to jump in only just because we have 50 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: about four minutes left. I think what the work you 51 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: folks are doing, we think it's really important that people 52 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: have an understanding of it because it could potentially help 53 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: us get people back to work sooner. It's about the 54 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: presence of finding out if if the presence of antibiodies 55 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: are there, and it means a person might be immune 56 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: from getting the virus in the in the future, so 57 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: that's that's key. Though we still don't know that about 58 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: this virus. Is that correct? Yes, it doesn't mean you 59 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: will never get it to game. I think these tests 60 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: have a little bit misunderstood in the sense that they 61 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: sound very simple. You need to go through and understand 62 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: what I just said and then speak to your physician. 63 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: But clearly, these antibody tests, the blood tests, of sourology 64 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: tests prick no equipment needed, available in fifteen minutes, are 65 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: very very helpful in bringing America back to work and 66 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: particularly testing the frontline healthcare providers and for example e 67 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: MPT at police people. But are they accurate in that 68 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: if they show there's a presence of antibodies, that there 69 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: is no chance of a person getting the coronavirus. Again, well, 70 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: first of all, mone these tests are hundred percent accurate. 71 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: Nor is the PCR test or any of these This 72 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: is where in the early stage of diagnosing the disease. 73 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 1: Uh uh, and so none of these tests a hundred 74 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: percent foolproof. Having said that, these tests worked working together 75 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: can help the physician make decisions of whether somebody can 76 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: go back to work or not. These are not tests 77 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: that are fool proof. Unfortunately, don't have any that are 78 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: foolproof yet. And so how quickly does this get out 79 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: and in what sort of volume? Stanley, Well, we expect 80 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,239 Speaker 1: to have product production available. We have at the moment 81 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: to one being a Korean supplier and the other one 82 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: being b D from the United States, and we're betting 83 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: Dickinson and we respect to have these products available in 84 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: the next week or so, in hundreds of thousands and 85 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: then likely in moments. And how they be distributed. You're 86 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: working with the administration to get this done. What's the 87 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: process to get them out there? No, these tests will 88 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: be available to physicians and to hospitals and they can 89 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: be bought from Henry Shine to our normal medical channel. Uh. 90 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: At the moment, I think the demand is more for 91 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: the PC artists, which has been around for a while 92 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: and known, and gradually I think the knowledge about emptibody 93 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: prology blood tests will become known and the product will 94 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: become more and more sought after. But at the moment, 95 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: of course, we have not shipped any yet, but we're 96 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: taking orders and we will deliver tests two. Primarily we 97 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: will focus on hospitals or tooth care and physician officers. 98 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: We're talking with Stanley Bergman, the chairman and cy of 99 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: Henry Shine. So Stanley, as you know, the key thing 100 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: with antibioties is that they tell us how many people 101 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: were infected. That is the number who have recovered or 102 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: produced antibodies suggesting that they have fought off the virus. 103 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: So I'm curious if you have any idea any results 104 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: that have come back so far that gives you an 105 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: idea of what proportion of the population is turning up 106 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: antibody positive. Yeah. Unfortunately these tests are relatively used. Testing 107 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: patterns are not well known, but the TISTS has been 108 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: used one in Korea and one in China with pretty 109 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: good results. But of course we have no studies yet 110 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: of any scale. In the United States, studies are being 111 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: conducted and the public, many of them are studying this 112 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: particular tests and how to use it. But we're dealing 113 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: with technology that's brand needs in the United States. And 114 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: part of the reason only yet about thirty seconds left here, Stanley, 115 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: is we need to know whether this is seasonal ultimately, 116 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,119 Speaker 1: whether we're going to be living with this for quite 117 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: some time. So we need to know whether people are 118 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: are essentially, if not immune, at least have had it 119 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: and are building up those Anybody's right, ye, us what 120 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: we need these tests to help us to determine patents, 121 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: and we can use these tests to help us determine 122 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: what's the patson UH of impact on society in general, 123 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: and these will be very very helpful. We expect them 124 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: to be very very helpful to public help officials as 125 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: they diagnosed, will determine where the trends are heading. Right. Well, 126 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: you're definitely doing really important work and we look forward 127 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: to hearing more, especially as you start shipping out more 128 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: those tests and the results are coming coming back. Stanley Bergman, 129 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: thank you, Thank you, Chairman and Chief executive officer at 130 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: Henry Shine. Joining us on the phone in New York City. 131 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 132 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. We know it is just a fact, Carol, 133 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: that retail, shopping, restaurants, all of it just absolutely getting obliterated. 134 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: Uh here, Fortunate for us we have someone to help understand, 135 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: help us understand this. Tom mcgheek, President and CEO of 136 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: International Council of Shopping Centers, joining us on the phone 137 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,239 Speaker 1: from New Jersey. Tom, I know it's a very busy 138 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: time for you. We really appreciate you spending some time 139 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: with Carolin myself. Thanks for having me on. Happy to 140 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: be here. So I want to jump right in and 141 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: ask you about something that came up in a conversation 142 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: we had yesterday with none other than Danielle Blue, talking 143 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: well known restaurateur obviously talking about this notion of business 144 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: interruption coverage. It is something he is fighting for. I 145 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 1: know it's something you are intensely uh focused on as well. 146 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: Where are we on that as it relates to what 147 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: the government may or may not do? Yeah, well, uh, 148 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: we are focused on that issue. I mean we are 149 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,599 Speaker 1: in the midst of a national crisis. I mean, effectively 150 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: the US economy is shut down. We are part of 151 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: a broad coalition that has advanced the solution for the 152 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: government to hopefully serve as the framework for the next 153 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: COVID relief package that will come out, and there will 154 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,599 Speaker 1: necessarily net out of necessity, be another package. While the 155 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: CARES Act was was a good first step, it was 156 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: really just a first step. And the coalition that we're 157 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: a part of and actively involved in, believes the government 158 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: should put together a Business Continuity and Recovery Fund fully 159 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: funded by the US government UH to fundamentally backstop losses 160 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: that are taking place during this national crisis. And we 161 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: um we believe that the only entity that has a 162 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: balance sheet big enough to sustain the kind of losses 163 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: that are taking place right now is the US government, 164 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: and so we're hopeful. Um, you know, conversations are ongoing. Obviously, 165 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: Congress is not in session right now, so nothing will 166 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 1: happen until they come back into session. But we are 167 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: advancing that, and the coalition as broad and includes participants 168 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: from the assurance industry to folks like ourselves, to folks 169 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: in the retail and restaurant industry and everything in between. 170 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: Is tough. Yeah, let me just jump in for a second. 171 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: So small retail businesses I'm assuming are covered under the 172 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: bailout for small businesses, correct. I mean, I think there's 173 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: some three billion that came out of that massive stimulus. 174 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: So I'm assuming you're not talking about those kinds of retail. 175 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: You're talking about the bigger names, right and the publicly 176 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: held names. I'm talking about virtually companies of every size 177 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: and scale in every industry. You're correct. In the Cares 178 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: Act there was a provision to help small business. But 179 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: but honestly, I mean, the scale of that, while historic 180 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: in nature, two trillion dollars to spend is not all 181 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: that significant given the scale of what's taking place right now, 182 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: and I think that that Small Business UM package, although 183 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: well intentioned, will not be sufficient for what's taking place. 184 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: And as I said, it is really just the first step, right, 185 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: and we do expect there to be a phase four, 186 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: phase five and probably you know, help on the other 187 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: side once we get out of the virus and help 188 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: me out here, because I think, you know, our listeners 189 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: are going to be asking this question, what do you 190 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: do with retailers that came into this in a pretty 191 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 1: weakened state, whether it's a Macy's that has been having 192 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: a tough time for years, I mean, why should they 193 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: get some assistance? Well, first and foremost, you know, I 194 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: think that this is not like any other crisis that 195 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: we've had in the past economic crisis. This isn't about 196 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,599 Speaker 1: businesses that did or did not make wise business decisions. 197 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,599 Speaker 1: What's fundamentally happened is that the government, and for it 198 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: are all right reasons for the right public health and 199 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: safety actions, has basically placed the economy and time out UM. 200 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: And I think there's a responsibility if you make that 201 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: decision then to support the business community. Uh. And nobody 202 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: is looking to to do anything inappropriate here. There should 203 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: be appropriate safeguards in place and a lot of provisions, etcetera. 204 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: But I think the losses that take place in this 205 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: period of time that particularly you know, are impacting employment. 206 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: And think that's the one really important, uh particular in 207 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: this is that companies are going to get assistance. There 208 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: should be some requirements around maintaining employment, and that is 209 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: what we are proposing as part of the recovery fund. 210 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: But if the government needs to step in, these are 211 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: not This is not the consequence of a decision that 212 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: a business man. This is the consequence of a national 213 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: disaster that's taking place, and the government, in all natural disasters, 214 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: to step right. And I would say the same thing 215 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: for a Boeing. So forgive me, I'm playing a little 216 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: bit Devil's advocate, but you know, these are the responses 217 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: we're certainly hearing, you know, Jason from some of our listeners. Well, 218 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: and Tom, I guess, you know, sort of further to 219 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: that point, and maybe looking ahead a little bit, given 220 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: what Carol rightly set up as the state of the 221 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: retail business, and now given this exogenous, unforeseen event, what 222 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: does the shopping center business look like on the other side? 223 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: Is it certain types of businesses that survive and thrive 224 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: going forward, regardless of what sort of funding comes in. 225 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: I don't know that we really know what the future 226 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: is going to foretell because we don't really know how 227 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: long this crisis is going to last. Right, I do 228 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: know that the consequences of this industry not surviving or 229 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: being in significant despair are quite bad for the U. 230 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: S economy. Went out of four jobs in America. Retail 231 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: related every community as retail is a thriving, central part 232 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: of the community life. It relies upon the tax revenue 233 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: that comes from retail, whether it's sales tax and property 234 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: tax revenue. So if you're going to save the US economy, 235 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,719 Speaker 1: you need to save retail. If you're going to have 236 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: thriving communities that don't have foreclosed properties and empty storefronts, 237 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: the government needs to lean in. I think that the 238 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: issue is very significant and and broad based. It's not 239 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: just the Business Recovery Fund that I've talked about. There's 240 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: a trillion dollars of scar and non secured debt that 241 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: underlies the shopping center industry in of itself. And if 242 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: and this is an industry that depends up on cash flow, 243 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: cash flow from retailers to pay property owners would pay right. 244 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: It's also a real estate story, which is an important 245 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: part of also um this economy, so it's all connected. Tommagy, 246 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: thank you so much, Presidency of the International Council of 247 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: Shopping Centers joining us on the phone from New Jersey. 248 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: Really important to check in with the retail sector. Also, 249 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: Babby beaten because of the virus. This is Bloomberg Business 250 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: Week with Carol Messer and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. 251 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: We know global cases of the virus now topping nine 252 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: hundred sixty five thousand, more than forty nine thousand dead. 253 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: This is according to Johns Hopkins. Nations with mandatory TV 254 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: vaccines are showing fewer virus deaths, and meantime, l A 255 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: is urging its city to mascot ball New York, New 256 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: Jersey deaths are doubling in three days. There's your snapshot. 257 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: Let's talk about a little bit more about the virus 258 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: and really what we can do from a humanitarian um response. 259 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: Dr Paul Siegel is Directors Center for Humanity Terran Health 260 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: at Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health. Of course, 261 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. 262 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg founder, Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Radio, which you're listening 263 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: to right now. Dr Spiegel on the phone from Baltimore. 264 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: Dr Spiegel, nice to have you here with us. Um 265 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: talked to us a little bit about this humanitarian response. 266 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: I want to ask you a couple of things. But 267 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: I do think we are looking around the world and 268 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: I am concerned too about some spots, whether it's in 269 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: the emerging economies that are going to have a tougher 270 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: time getting this under control, especially while the rest of 271 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: the developed world is just struggling to get control of 272 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: the virus on their own. Yes, absolutely, And most refugees 273 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: and internally displaced people around the world are living in 274 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: such areas of low and middle league countries, and there's 275 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: a big concern that one, how are these countries going 276 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: to respond? And then secondly, how are they going to 277 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: respond to non nationals such as refuge gees. Are these 278 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: groups going to add access to national health systems when 279 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: they're going to be overwhelmed for their own nationals? And 280 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: so Dr speak on I mean, one of the things 281 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: we we want to understand it when it comes to 282 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: the spread. And Carol was saying, this is we were 283 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: sort of getting ready to talk to you, is we're 284 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: hearing more and more about testing and antibodies and all 285 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: of these things that will help us get to the 286 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: other side of this. I would imagine that in part 287 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: is really going to potentially exacerbate, uh, some of the 288 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: divergences here, especially on a humanitarian front. Correct, well, if 289 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: you're referring to where testing will occur, I think so certainly. 290 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: I mean, one of one of the concerns is that 291 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: as we are and we need to ramp up our 292 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: testing significantly for the virus, but also, as you mentioned, 293 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: for antibodies, because those that now have had the virus 294 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: um and have immunity, hopefully we'll be able to go 295 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: back to work and get the economy moving. Many of 296 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: these countries will not have access to those same tests, 297 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: and even more so in many of these refugee settings. 298 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 1: When you look at refugee camps, many of them are 299 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: in remote areas. The density of these places are are 300 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: very very high, and they won't have access Some have 301 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: access to basic health care, but certainly not to I 302 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: c U s and two ventilators. So there's a lot 303 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: of concern about how the spread will occur in those 304 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: populations and the lack of testing and lack of care right, 305 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: because in order for us to get this under control, 306 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: I mean, this is where we really do need coordinated 307 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: efforts across borders and across countries. I mean that that's 308 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: the only way we're going to get this under control. 309 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: UM ultimately correct. Yes, And you know, we were just 310 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: talking about this. I was teaching a class of minute ago, 311 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: and we were talking about this issue of the importance 312 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: of working altogether yet public health and and also public 313 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: health and human rights and what we are seeing. At 314 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: least in the past, we were taught we should not 315 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: really be or we should not be quarantining, because when 316 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: you looked at HIV and you looked at EOLA, when 317 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,959 Speaker 1: you quarantine people and either forced them to get tests, 318 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: people go underground and move. But this is a different 319 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: virus with a different epidemiology, and so much of the 320 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: world is quarantining, isolating, social distancing UM to try to 321 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: slow this virus down, particularly when there is no treatment 322 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: and when there is no vaccination. So that may be 323 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: correct to be able to do that, but it also 324 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: may have some significant long term effects well beyond just 325 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: icon right and you talk about cultural and ethical issues 326 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: within communities, right, maybe you know that isn't something we 327 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 1: feel so much here in the New York metro area. 328 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: Just got about thirty seconds. But certainly in some of 329 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: the emerging world you have elderly with you know, younger populations. 330 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: It's just the way it is, just quickly, yeah, exactly. 331 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,959 Speaker 1: So we we just are releasing the study looking at 332 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: the rhino refugees in Bangladesh and um these populations are 333 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: multi generational and try to socially isolate the elderly will 334 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: be an extreme challenge. All right, well, thank you so much. 335 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: This is an interesting perspective on what is a fast 336 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: evolving crisis for sure, and we know, uh for sure 337 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: that it is also global and indiscriminate in a lot 338 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: of ways. Dr Paul Spiegel is director of the Center 339 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: for Humanitarian Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. 340 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: And you can tell by the name probably that school 341 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: is supported by Mike Bloomberg, the founder Bloombergil Bloomberg Philanthropies 342 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: and the parent of this radio station. This is Bloomberg 343 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg 344 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: Radio well as we know. The devil is often in 345 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: the details, and that includes and policing the massive two 346 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: trillion dollar stimulus plan that President Trump signed into law 347 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: just last week. Writing about at is Josh Green, national 348 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: correspondent EP Bloomberg Business Week. He joins us on the 349 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: phone from Washington, d C. Also with us is Joe Weber, 350 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week editor on the phone from Brooklyn. And Joe, 351 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: I feel like this is stimulus bailout two point oh, 352 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: and I just keep thinking about the financial crisis and 353 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: oversight or black thereof Yeah, it's hard, it's hard not to. 354 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: And that's when um, you know, Josh raised his hand 355 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: about this idea, um to to actually go back and 356 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: talk to the people who had oversight um the last 357 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 1: time there was um a stimulus like this, And he 358 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: did and and so doing also found out that we 359 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: were reminded that um it really didn't have much teeth. Um, Josh, 360 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: who do you talk to? And one they have to say, well, 361 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: I talked to most of the people who were on 362 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: the original five member TARP oversight commission. They of course 363 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: famously included Elizabeth Warren, but also people like Damon Silver's 364 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: from the A F. L c i oh from Republican 365 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: Senator Judd Gregg. The one thing they all agreed on 366 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 1: was that all the attention and that panel got last 367 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: time around, we all remember the hearings, the congressional hearings 368 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: where Elizabeth Warren was badgering Tim Guiten and stuff like that, 369 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: they didn't have much actual tangible power. What Silver's told 370 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: me was that at the end of the day, all 371 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: they really had was the power of public shaming. And 372 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: so there was a lot of hope this time around 373 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: from Democrats that the panel, the new panel that the 374 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: stimulus legislation establishes, would have more significant powers, particularly the 375 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: form of subpoena power, but Republicans blocked that, And so 376 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: we're going to run another example, essentially have the same 377 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: panel with the same rules that we did twelve years ago. 378 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: I hope that it can do a better job. Well, 379 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: And Josh, I do wonder and and you do a 380 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: nice job of this in your story as well as 381 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: always of reminding us that, I mean, we're living in 382 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: a very different world, right, I Mean, obviously this is 383 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: a different sort of crisis, but politically it's a different world. 384 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: To what impact does that have you think on how 385 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: this all plays out, well, I think it's gonna have 386 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: a huge impact. I mean, first of all, if you 387 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: go back to the financial crisis, when the first Bailout 388 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: Oversight Committee was established, Um, that was done under the 389 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: Obama administration or they were, they were the ones in 390 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: tower most of the time. And you know, we're more 391 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: or less compliant and willing to send officials to testify, 392 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: willing to turn over documents sometimes took a little bit 393 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: of teeth pulling, but but essentially they believe in the 394 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: congressional process and and voluntarily sent their people in their 395 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: documents in order for the overseers to examine what was 396 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: happening with the money. What we've seen from the Trump 397 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 1: administration is a much much different and more hostile stance 398 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: toward Congress. Uh, not only when it comes to stimulus 399 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, but really on any kind 400 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: of congressional oversight. You go back to the Mueller probe, 401 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 1: you can go back to the impeachment stuff, and it 402 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: isn't just turned down requests for information from Congress, but 403 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: fighting subpoenas. And so the concern I heard from a 404 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: lot of people was that if you if you institute 405 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: a system that is essentially voluntary, and that's what this 406 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: new oversight board is going to be. It it requires 407 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: a willingness on the part of the administration to go 408 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: along with it, and everything we have seen suggests that 409 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: that's not going to happen, including within hours after Trump 410 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: signing off on the stimulus bill, he issued what's known 411 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: as a signing statement saying that he did not recognize 412 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: the authority of the Special Inspector General it's supposed to 413 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: be overseeing the stimulus uh, and that the government wouldn't 414 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: release any information, wouldn't allow the Special Inspector General to 415 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 1: release any information unless the President had signed off on 416 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: it first. And as we know, um, Trump doesn't really 417 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: enjoy scrutiny from time. Well, that's what's wild in your 418 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: store you set upon signing the bill, he immediately the 419 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: President moved a curb the power of this Special Inspector General. Um. 420 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: So immediately the power of it was restrained. Correct, Yes 421 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: it was. And and that's something that a lot of 422 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: Democrats were worried about, because what you have here and 423 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: what I focused on was the five hund billion dollar 424 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: bailout funds gonna go to large corporations. Is that the 425 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary, Stephen the Nuchon, has an enormous amount of 426 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: latitude as far as where he wants to direct this money. 427 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: Democrats are afraid it's going to go to Trump friendly companies, 428 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: even even companies that might be owned part by his children. 429 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: There may be all sorts of shenanigans, And if they 430 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: don't have subpoena power, and if they don't have an 431 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: inspector general to be able to follow the money, that 432 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: essentially it will turn into a program of favoritism and 433 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: not one that directs the money to the corporations that 434 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: most need help right now in the midst of this recession. 435 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: Well go ahead, John, Yeah, But just to be fair 436 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: here too, and Josh points this out in his story, 437 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: it wasn't like the Obama administration were innocent in this 438 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: regard either. Perhaps Trump is going to another level here 439 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: by by um by restricting some of of potential here. 440 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: But the you know, the people that Josh talked to 441 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: all since of the administration weren't angels either, right, And 442 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: in fact, I think one of one of the economists 443 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: I talked to who was on the panel said, in fact, 444 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm quoting from my own p series said getting the 445 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: Obama administration to turn over documents was like pulling teeth. 446 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: We got pushed back all the time. So this isn't 447 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: an easy process, the oversight process, even in the best 448 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: of times. And obviously that's that's what times. Last time 449 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: we got Elizabeth Warren actually out of all of this, uh, 450 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: you know, and and you were right to point down 451 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: out and this time, who might we get How do 452 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: these how do these panelts get to get selected? Well, 453 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: that's a great question. What the legislation said last time 454 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: and this time is that each of the congressional leaders, 455 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: Speaker of the House, Minority leaders, Speaker of the Senate 456 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: minority leader there gets to choose one, and then the 457 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: fifth and final person will be chosen jointly by Nancy 458 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: Pelosi and Mitch McConnell. The fear that a lot of 459 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: people had, including former participants that I talked to, was 460 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: that the process would become politicized. Some of the people 461 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,479 Speaker 1: in the panel didn't like the fact that Warren was 462 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: this crusading liberal holding banks to account. I think the 463 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: success of the committee will depend a great deal on 464 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: who actually winds up being appointed to it and whether 465 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: or not they can get along, because if they can't, 466 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: then there really is no hope of having effective oversight 467 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: over this Dale album. Well, and Joel, I also think 468 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: about the idea. And you guys have done such a 469 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: great job in the magazine covering this. This isn't about 470 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: you know, sort of propping up a few banks or 471 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: you know, getting some money to Wall Street and financial institutions. 472 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: These are this is companies across the country, across all 473 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: sorts of industries. This is a big complicated job, right. Oh, 474 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: and that's why the you know, the size of this 475 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: plot that josh Um is writing about. You know, the 476 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: five billion that basically falls under Minutian's control is going 477 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: to be such an important part of this. And you know, 478 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 1: the Small Business Association and those loans will start to 479 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: probably you know, people who start applying for those tomorrow. Like, 480 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: all of this will will lead to places that, um, 481 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: you know, accountability and oversight are going to be dramatically 482 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: important and we're just at the beginning of that. How 483 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: that will all unfold. Well, and it's such a good 484 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: point considering we just talked to the President UH and 485 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: CEO of the International Council of shopping centers. They too, 486 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: are looking for assistance for all of the big retail names. 487 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: So you know that this pot could potentially grow um 488 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: larger and larger. Jill Webber, thank you so much, editor 489 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Business Week, joining us from Brooklyn. Josh Green, 490 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: national correspondent at Bloomberg Business Week, on the phone from Washington, 491 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:44,719 Speaker 1: d C. Broom Morow the Journal. Yeah, but you let 492 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: me drive? Oh no, no, no, please, I'll do the 493 00:27:49,920 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: right I want to drive. Just drive, good question. Try 494 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: this is the drive to the globe. Thanks. We'll drying 495 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: us down Bloomberg Radio. It is time for the drive 496 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: to the close back with us. As Eric Clark, portfolio 497 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: manager at Rational Dynamic Brands fun his Rational Dynamic Brands fund. Yeah, 498 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: it's down for the year, but it's still beating just 499 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: about all of its peers this year and in the 500 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: past year, as well as over the past three years. 501 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: It's up on average more than six percent annually. Eric 502 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from San Francisco. Eric, nice 503 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: to have you here with us. First of all, how 504 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: San Francisco, how are you doing doing? Okay? Actually I'm 505 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: down in San Diego where it's warm and uh that's 506 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: a good thing right now. So we're just hunkering down 507 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: as most people are, and you know we're we're we 508 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: love to adapt as human beings, and so what do 509 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: you see and from a response perspective there across California, 510 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: we've been hearing a lot from Governor new So we've 511 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: been playing some of that that he's been saying on 512 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: his show. Obviously an incredibly diverse state. Economically, it's something 513 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: like the second seventh, i should say, biggest economy in 514 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: the world overall. What's the sort of net economic effect 515 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: is You can see it just as a business person 516 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: and as well as a consumer. Well you know, listen, 517 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,479 Speaker 1: it's clear small business is any you know, kind of 518 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: in trouble. Short term the when when you shut an 519 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: economy down, a twenty trillion dollar economy down, there are 520 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: going to be some uh you know, some short term effects, 521 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: some lasting effects depending on people's balance sheets, and you know, 522 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: it does allow a cleansing of bad ideas that we're 523 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: just there for the bull market in the economy and 524 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: and and bad ideas. So you know, it's it's just uh, 525 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: you know, it's just one of those things that that 526 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: that happens at the end of the cycle when we 527 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: clean out the good and or the bad and and 528 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,959 Speaker 1: then you know, the good ultimately takes more. Markets here 529 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: are coming out the other end. So Eric talked to 530 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: us about your portfolio. You know, we often get into 531 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: names with you Amazon's, They're Microsoft's there, Ali baba. I 532 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: mean you go after you know, as the as the 533 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: fun is entitled dynamic brands. What have you done differently? 534 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: I mean, have you done some buying as the market 535 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: has been beaten up and some of these names became 536 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: a lot less expensive than they were prior to the 537 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: outbreak of the virus. Absolutely. I mean, you know, we 538 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: have always been tactical in our nature, and so you know, 539 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: I'm not a buy and hold type in general, but 540 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: particularly this kind of market, you have to be a 541 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: little bit tactical. Um and so when the market, you know, 542 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: just plunges, you have to do, you know, go to 543 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: your research and identify which brands you think are a 544 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: sustainable in the short term, but also we're going to 545 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: come out the other end even stronger. And those are 546 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: the names that we've really focused on, which is why 547 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: you have Amazon being the biggest holding by far. You know, 548 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: We've ordered a much more Amazon than we have before, 549 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: and we ordered Amazon a lot to begin with. And 550 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: I suspect a lot of people are doing the same 551 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: when when they're having to stay home. So we've been 552 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: tactical around the core. So that means you've been buying, 553 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: You've been adding to the Amazon position. Absolutely, absolutely, we've 554 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: we've we bought about two points lower. You know, we 555 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: have been kind of you know, trim the top end 556 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: of the range in the market and add to the 557 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: bottom of the range, all while the core portfolio kind 558 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: of does what it does, just being tactical around the core, 559 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: trying to add a little out for there. And so 560 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: Eric talk about you know, how you invest looking to 561 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: the bounce back. We all know it's going to come 562 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: in some former fashion at some point. The when is 563 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: obviously the game, but how do you look at those names? 564 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: And again, these are brands I'm guessing that we've talked 565 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: about before on this program that stand to benefit when 566 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: people are as it were sort of unleashed again. Yeah, absolutely. 567 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: I mean, for at first, it's who has the quality 568 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: balance sheet to be able to sustain a slowdown for 569 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: a period of time, And you know, for for the 570 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: most part, we've kind of gotten rid of those names. 571 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: There are a few that I still think I have 572 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: some asymmetric opportunity, so I'm willing to hold on. But 573 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: you know those names that we really like from a 574 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: pent up energy. You know, consumers were social and we 575 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: like to spend, and when you take both of those 576 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: things away, there is this pent up energy that builds 577 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: and at some point I liken it to a glass jar. 578 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: As soon as you start turning the jar and take 579 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: off the top of that jar, there's going to be 580 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: a lot of energy released. And at that point, those 581 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: are the names you're gonna want to return to. What 582 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: have I not been able to do that? I just 583 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: love to do. I want my latte at Starbucks and 584 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: I want to I've been exercising more so Nike comes 585 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: to mind for sure. Well, what's interesting too, There was 586 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: a report app by Mofatt Nathanson today talked about Visa 587 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: and master Card and said that um the downside from 588 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen now looks worse than previously expected, and that 589 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: updates from both offered quote sobering figures, implying a truly 590 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: unprecedented deterioration in consumers spending despite the flurry of panic 591 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: buying and shift to online purchasing. So if you see, 592 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: I mean, Visa is actually up today. But I mean, 593 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: if you see some blips in these names, will you 594 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: be adding to it? You're not worried about the long 595 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: term outlook here? And have you been adding? Have you 596 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: been adding to Visa? Yeah? We have, we we added 597 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: to Visa. Um the trend away from money, I mean, 598 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen the numbers two and the reports. 599 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: You know, paper money carries more of the virus than anything. 600 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: So I mean, if if anything, your credit card is 601 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: just a better, a better safety thing through this. But 602 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: but that trend of using our our visas and a 603 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: master cards in American expresses and e commerce is only 604 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: going to be enhanced through this. And Nike said that 605 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: on their conference call a week or two ago that 606 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: you know, small percent of genn e commerce, they consider 607 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: that to to grow by you know, kind of exponential, 608 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: just given the way that people's behavior is changing. And 609 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: once we do that, we're probably not going to go 610 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,879 Speaker 1: back to some old behavior. And so that's our job 611 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: to figure out where, you know, who's the big beneficiaries 612 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: of that kind of thing. And I love Visa and 613 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: master Card. I still love PayPal. I'd love to own 614 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: American Express. It's just a little too tied to travel, 615 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: so I'm kind of waiting on that one a little 616 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: bit for now. Really interesting. We love talking names with you, 617 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,760 Speaker 1: Eric Clark. I really appreciate a portfolio manager. Portfolio manager 618 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: excuse me for Rational Dynamic Brands fund. We talked a 619 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: lot of about a lot about some good brands I 620 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: know and having trouble speaking um. And then in case 621 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: he joined us on the phone from Sandy Ago. Always 622 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: get to catch up with him. And as you say, Carol, 623 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: as you said at the top, one of the best 624 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: performers out there, so worth a listen for sure. Thanks 625 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. You can subscribe to 626 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. You 627 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: can also listen to our radio show every weekday at 628 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: two pm Eastern only on Bloomberg radioh