1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:10,120
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing,

2
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:11,559
Speaker 1: day nine.

3
00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:12,920
Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace.

4
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,320
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for

5
00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:16,160
Speaker 1: being with us.

6
00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,960
Speaker 3: Nancy before your seventy age things.

7
00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,400
Speaker 4: After twenty eight hours, Mama.

8
00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,120
Speaker 5: If you're listening, we need you to come home.

9
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:24,960
Speaker 6: Everyone is looking.

10
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,319
Speaker 5: For your mommy. Whoever is out there holding our mother.

11
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,240
Speaker 5: We want to hear from you. We want to talk

12
00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,920
Speaker 5: to you, and we are waiting for contact. The rational

13
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:34,440
Speaker 5: note that was distributed to the media.

14
00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,800
Speaker 7: If a treasfer wasn't made, then I think a second

15
00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:37,960
Speaker 7: demand is for next money.

16
00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:45,240
Speaker 1: The search of a septic tank late night photographs inside

17
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,919
Speaker 1: the daughter's home. More item sees from the roof of

18
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:56,440
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie's home and a desperate plea from Savannah Guthrie.

19
00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:02,720
Speaker 6: Listen, we received your message and we under stand. We

20
00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,360
Speaker 6: beg you now to return our mother to us so

21
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,480
Speaker 6: that we can celebrate with her. This is the only

22
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,640
Speaker 6: way we will have peace. This is very valuable to

23
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,080
Speaker 6: us and we will pay.

24
00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,959
Speaker 1: A lot is unfolding, but I want to analyze Savannah's

25
00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,840
Speaker 1: response with me an all star panel to make sense

26
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,880
Speaker 1: of what we are learning right now, I want.

27
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,200
Speaker 2: To first go out to Scott Iiker.

28
00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 1: Joining us formerly with the FBI, he as a founding

29
00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,600
Speaker 1: member of CAST, the Cellular Analysis Survey Team, and so

30
00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 1: much more question to you.

31
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,240
Speaker 2: Unlike the last plea made by.

32
00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,080
Speaker 1: Savannah, with her brother and sister flanking her, she spoke

33
00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,960
Speaker 1: directly to her mother, she did not this time. But

34
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,000
Speaker 1: I'm holding on to two of the words when I

35
00:01:55,080 --> 00:02:02,400
Speaker 1: first heard her say a earlier, a celebration. Let's hear

36
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,400
Speaker 1: it one more time before I go to Scott Iker.

37
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,920
Speaker 6: We received your message, and we understand.

38
00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:10,799
Speaker 8: We beg you.

39
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,120
Speaker 6: Now to return our mother to us so that we

40
00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,320
Speaker 6: can celebrate with her. This is the only way we

41
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:22,680
Speaker 6: will have peace. This is very valuable to us, and.

42
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 5: We will pay.

43
00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:25,639
Speaker 2: Trust me.

44
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,080
Speaker 1: I know Savannah she can add loah, but I saw

45
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 1: her glance down about halfway through that very very brief message.

46
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,600
Speaker 1: She was looking consulting Scott directly with her notes. Every

47
00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:42,440
Speaker 1: word has been chosen carefully, every word. In fact, I

48
00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:47,040
Speaker 1: noticed in the last address, her last plea, it didn't

49
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,079
Speaker 1: sound like Savannah speaking as I know her and as

50
00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,799
Speaker 1: if we all have watched her, you know, on air

51
00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:58,680
Speaker 1: on the Today Show, because she is being directed by

52
00:02:58,919 --> 00:02:59,560
Speaker 1: the FEDS.

53
00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,600
Speaker 2: Her wording celebrate. When I heard that.

54
00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,520
Speaker 1: I nearly did a backflip because you think of celebration

55
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,080
Speaker 1: of life, which means somebody's dead, their life is over.

56
00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,520
Speaker 1: But she said we can celebrate with her. I'm holding

57
00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:16,480
Speaker 1: onto the with.

58
00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,840
Speaker 2: Word in that message. What strikes you about this message?

59
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,040
Speaker 9: Well, first of all, I know that the FBI and

60
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,320
Speaker 9: the Behavioral Science Unit and all the investigators are helping

61
00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,200
Speaker 9: her find the right words, make sure she's portraying the

62
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:38,200
Speaker 9: right meaning to the kidnappers. And I caught that too,

63
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 9: that celebrate with her. That first hurt me that because

64
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,520
Speaker 9: I thought, you know, maybe they're already talking about her

65
00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,960
Speaker 9: being deceased, and I don't want that to be the

66
00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 9: deal with Nancy guff three. But they're pleading with her

67
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,720
Speaker 9: to get the at least get some more information, get

68
00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 9: her back alive or dead, I think is what they

69
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,440
Speaker 9: want at this point in time. We're at day nine,

70
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,560
Speaker 9: so they're doing everything they can, and they're scripting what

71
00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,880
Speaker 9: they say to the goodnappers.

72
00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:15,680
Speaker 1: You know, she stated very clearly, we will pay, We

73
00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,800
Speaker 1: will pay. Many people are saying, if this is.

74
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,800
Speaker 2: A kidnap, we're on the outside looking in.

75
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:28,359
Speaker 1: They clearly think, Scott Iiker, that it is a kidnap

76
00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,960
Speaker 1: because they're entertaining it. They're speaking to the person that

77
00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,720
Speaker 1: are sending these missives to the local stations, and they're

78
00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,920
Speaker 1: willing to pay. We've heard six million dollars, which is

79
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:46,160
Speaker 1: an interesting point that according to what we've gleaned, where

80
00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,760
Speaker 1: again on the outside, the first ransom was for one million,

81
00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,240
Speaker 1: then it increased to six million. The date for the

82
00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,360
Speaker 1: transfer into a bitcoin account, which has been verified, has changed.

83
00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,760
Speaker 1: It's very unlike your typical ransom scenario, which in itself

84
00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:03,880
Speaker 1: is very rare.

85
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,720
Speaker 2: Indeed, I definitely agree.

86
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,400
Speaker 9: In my twenty two years as an FBI agent and

87
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,200
Speaker 9: twelve years as a police officer, I probably worked three

88
00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:19,880
Speaker 9: in the Denver metro area of ransom kidnappings, and so

89
00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 9: they're very unique and very unusual to occur. This is

90
00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,840
Speaker 9: even more unusual that it's a celebrity's mother, and then

91
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:32,760
Speaker 9: when they change, you know, the amount figures, they give

92
00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:37,919
Speaker 9: us two dates of deadlines. It's so weird in my

93
00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,800
Speaker 9: mind that I want to believe that it's a not

94
00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 9: a ransom kidnapping. But as we continue to go forward

95
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,640
Speaker 9: and we get no more information, and they are saying

96
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,839
Speaker 9: they're going to pay pay the money. You would think

97
00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 9: that would end the situation, but it's not. And maybe

98
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 9: it's because she's.

99
00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:56,839
Speaker 10: Not alive anymore.

100
00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,520
Speaker 1: I'm choosing to believe she's alive based on Savannah's wording

101
00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,360
Speaker 1: in her most recent plea, joining me as I said,

102
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,400
Speaker 1: an all star panel to somehow makes sense of all

103
00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,840
Speaker 1: the information that's happening right now. To Matthew matt Lopez,

104
00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:18,440
Speaker 1: veteran criminal defense attorney, owner of the largest criminal defense

105
00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:25,200
Speaker 1: law firm in Arizona this jurisdiction at Matthew Lopez dot com, Matthew,

106
00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:26,160
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.

107
00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,360
Speaker 5: Way in Thank you, Nancy.

108
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:30,520
Speaker 11: So, I think it's human nature for us to all

109
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,479
Speaker 11: hold out hope, right, and so if we have a

110
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,800
Speaker 11: glimmer of hope that our loved one or our mom

111
00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,200
Speaker 11: is still alive, and that's really what we're going to

112
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,840
Speaker 11: latch onto. And from the outset. A week ago, there

113
00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,200
Speaker 11: was a hope that this was a kidnapping, and there

114
00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,800
Speaker 11: was a letter leaked to the local station and to

115
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,279
Speaker 11: TMZ demanding a sum of money in bitcoin. And of course,

116
00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,320
Speaker 11: as Savannah and her siblings, they are going to think, well,

117
00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,360
Speaker 11: hopefully this is a kidnapping and we can get our

118
00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,280
Speaker 11: mom home, returned home safely. As the days have progressed

119
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,880
Speaker 11: and it's been a week, and exactly what the gentleman

120
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,840
Speaker 11: just said, these are extremely rare. Kidnappings are rare, And

121
00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,120
Speaker 11: why would somebody kidnap a celebrity's mother.

122
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:12,800
Speaker 5: That just does not make any sense.

123
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:19,560
Speaker 1: There is no Matthew, Matthew, you had me until you said,

124
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 1: why kidnap a celebrity's mother for money?

125
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,400
Speaker 2: They need money? Savannah has money.

126
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 5: There's a lot of people need a lot of money.

127
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:28,800
Speaker 5: There's a lot of people.

128
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,600
Speaker 2: Besides, but I could put two and two together and

129
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:31,040
Speaker 2: get four.

130
00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,520
Speaker 11: You're good, right, But there's a lot of people that

131
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,040
Speaker 11: have a million dollars. There's a lot of people that

132
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,200
Speaker 11: have six million dollars. And so you know, if you're

133
00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,320
Speaker 11: playing the numbers and you go to a fluent community

134
00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,720
Speaker 11: and you find an eighty five year old lady, chances

135
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,920
Speaker 11: are they have a million dollars or six million dollars.

136
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,960
Speaker 11: Why would you kidnap a very very famous celebrity where

137
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,120
Speaker 11: you know it's going to be all over the media.

138
00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,000
Speaker 11: That doesn't make any sense to me, And we have

139
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,160
Speaker 11: no proof of life. So the first letter came and went,

140
00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,320
Speaker 11: and missus Guthrie is saying, or Savannah is saying that

141
00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,600
Speaker 11: they'll pay some proof of life, and we haven't seen it.

142
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,800
Speaker 11: So I don't think this is a kidnapping situation. I

143
00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 11: think this is changing to a murder investigation.

144
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:16,360
Speaker 1: Well, okay, Matthew aka Matt Lopez, let me see him. Please, Matt,

145
00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 1: you're right, but I don't want to believe it. I'm

146
00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,720
Speaker 1: not going to believe it until I have to believe it.

147
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:31,600
Speaker 1: I've been pilloried online and beyond because I have not

148
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:36,120
Speaker 1: jumped on the vigilante bandwagon claiming that a family member

149
00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:42,040
Speaker 1: is involved. I don't want to heap more sadness onto

150
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,760
Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie and her family. But I'm going to address

151
00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,080
Speaker 1: what you just said.

152
00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 2: Why her?

153
00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,760
Speaker 1: Why a celebrity. A lot of people may have a

154
00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:58,000
Speaker 1: million dollars or six million dollars. Think about this, Matt,

155
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:05,240
Speaker 1: someone with in her circle that needs money, and she's

156
00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:11,440
Speaker 1: like a sitting duck. I don't necessarily mean the family.

157
00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,640
Speaker 1: How about a cohort of the family. How about a

158
00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,160
Speaker 1: granny nanny? Not necessarily the nanny. I got granny nannies

159
00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,040
Speaker 1: from my mom I gotta go to work, the children

160
00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,440
Speaker 1: go to school. I have to work. I can't leave

161
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,680
Speaker 1: her alone. You know, she fell in August broke two

162
00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,959
Speaker 1: of these guys. I can't leave her alone at all.

163
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,160
Speaker 1: So I love my granny nannies. I've known many, most

164
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,600
Speaker 1: of them for years. One of them was even a

165
00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,560
Speaker 1: babysitter for the twins when they were little. And now

166
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:49,000
Speaker 1: she's made an encore performance as a granny nanny that said,

167
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,560
Speaker 1: I don't know their sons, their husbands, I don't know

168
00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:56,600
Speaker 1: everything about their family.

169
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,040
Speaker 2: So I would look at the granny nanny relatives and

170
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,559
Speaker 2: beyond believe me, I would be.

171
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,800
Speaker 1: Investigating every single person and their son because you know,

172
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,280
Speaker 1: this is likely a white male that did it. Statistically,

173
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 1: Ransom's rare, as Iker just pointed out, But when they

174
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,640
Speaker 1: do happen, it's.

175
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:18,440
Speaker 2: A freaky white male.

176
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,520
Speaker 1: Can anybody? Does anybody disagree with that? Karen Stark, agree

177
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:22,040
Speaker 1: or disagree?

178
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:22,680
Speaker 2: You're the shrink.

179
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,080
Speaker 3: I agree. I definitely agree, Nancy, Okay, I feel like

180
00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:34,720
Speaker 3: totally yes, exactly. That's something that I really have to

181
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,559
Speaker 3: point out that the reason that they would definitely use somebody,

182
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:44,760
Speaker 3: in my opinion, like a famous celebrity is because they

183
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,080
Speaker 3: really want to get that attention. That's not somebody who's hiding.

184
00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,200
Speaker 3: That's somebody who, of course he's hiding from the least

185
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,160
Speaker 3: in the public, but who wants to be seen on television,

186
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,360
Speaker 3: writing to TMZ, who wants to be in the newspapers.

187
00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,960
Speaker 3: Who's actually excited by the power that this person has

188
00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,480
Speaker 3: and is enjoying this immensely. There's no empathy going on.

189
00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,240
Speaker 3: You don't have empathy when you're picking an eighty four

190
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 3: year old woman who is vulnerable and sick.

191
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:19,480
Speaker 2: You have power and you feel in control. Wow, astute

192
00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:20,040
Speaker 2: as usual.

193
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:25,839
Speaker 1: That's Karen Stark guys renowned TV radio trauma expert, consultant

194
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,600
Speaker 1: psychologists and you can find her at Karensdart dot com.

195
00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:30,440
Speaker 2: That's Karen with a.

196
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:45,200
Speaker 1: Sea, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Matthew Matt Lopez.

197
00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 2: So I hear what Karen is saying.

198
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,680
Speaker 1: I'm not disagreeing with her, but I think more than attention,

199
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:51,520
Speaker 1: they want money.

200
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,120
Speaker 2: And it's someone that knows Missus Guthrie and knows her

201
00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,760
Speaker 2: daughter as a celeb, and it's in that circle. I

202
00:11:58,800 --> 00:11:59,120
Speaker 2: don't know.

203
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,080
Speaker 1: It could be newspaper guy, it could be the mailman,

204
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:03,080
Speaker 1: the FedEx man.

205
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 2: It could be the Uber eats, it could.

206
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:10,400
Speaker 1: Be the Uber's awful black sheep son, some body that

207
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,360
Speaker 1: knows her, and they knew her really well in that

208
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,600
Speaker 1: they knew about the camera system such as it was.

209
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,439
Speaker 1: They were comfortable in the home for what did we decide, Jackie?

210
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,480
Speaker 2: Forty one minutes? Will you look at that number again?

211
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:28,920
Speaker 1: And here's a great example, John ban A Ramsey, Matt, Matt,

212
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,640
Speaker 1: I'm talking to you, Matt. I wanted to do that

213
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,959
Speaker 1: since we first started the show. Okay, Matt, Remember John

214
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:41,280
Speaker 1: bin A Ramsey. The perp felt very at home, not

215
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,439
Speaker 1: at all concerned they were going to be detected. They

216
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,400
Speaker 1: write a three page ransom note, they go and I

217
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,200
Speaker 1: didn't like it. They write another three page ransom note.

218
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,880
Speaker 1: Then they say, you know what, I wanted that one

219
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 1: hundred and eighteen thousand dollars, the exact amount that John

220
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,400
Speaker 1: Ramsey had just gotten in a bu But screw that,

221
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:04,480
Speaker 1: I'm just going to kill her and leave her in

222
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,400
Speaker 1: the basement, never concerned that they would be detected.

223
00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:09,440
Speaker 2: That tells me a lot.

224
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,480
Speaker 1: This person was in the home at least forty minutes,

225
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,240
Speaker 1: not concerned that they were going to be detected. So

226
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,680
Speaker 1: they clearly knew she lived alone, nobody was coming over there.

227
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,120
Speaker 1: Very interesting, right, Lopez, it is Nancy.

228
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,840
Speaker 11: But I think unfortunately both could be true. We could

229
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,559
Speaker 11: have a murder and we could have somebody creating a

230
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,200
Speaker 11: ruse for a kidnapping. Both of those situations could very

231
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,800
Speaker 11: well be true. And maybe we have a murder, which

232
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,959
Speaker 11: hopefully it's not the case, because I too really feel

233
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,160
Speaker 11: for Savanna, especially her being from Arizona, and I watched

234
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:43,200
Speaker 11: twelve News all the time.

235
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,040
Speaker 5: But we could have a murder and then.

236
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,560
Speaker 11: Maybe a nefarious situation where somebody has taken advantage of

237
00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,400
Speaker 11: an opportunity to play this off as a kidnapping and

238
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:53,480
Speaker 11: asking for a ransom.

239
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 1: Matt, if it was just a murder, just a murder,

240
00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,959
Speaker 1: not that any murder is running the meal to the victims' families.

241
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,199
Speaker 1: If this were a murder, they would have murdered her

242
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,960
Speaker 1: right there in the home. If it was a rape,

243
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:07,560
Speaker 1: they would have raped her and killed her. If it

244
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:13,200
Speaker 1: was a burglary, they would have taken things, items, money, jewelry, electronics.

245
00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:14,680
Speaker 2: None of that happened.

246
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 1: I mean no, that is contrary to all statistics. If

247
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,720
Speaker 1: this were, as you say, your word's not mine, just

248
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:25,440
Speaker 1: a murder.

249
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:31,320
Speaker 2: They would have left her right there done.

250
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,320
Speaker 5: Maybe right, But maybe they're hiding the evidence.

251
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,400
Speaker 2: Oh dear lord, you got to.

252
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,400
Speaker 11: Remember, people that commit these are not thinking like you

253
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,880
Speaker 11: and I. People are thinking very differently, right, And to

254
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,120
Speaker 11: compare this to John Binney Ramsey thirty five years ago approximately,

255
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 11: it's way different technology. And so for a person to

256
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 11: think that maybe they can get away with creating this

257
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,040
Speaker 11: bitcoin account and the Guthries wiring one to six million

258
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,640
Speaker 11: dollars if the FBI is not going to find them,

259
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,640
Speaker 11: that's a stretch. I just don't. I don't see that possible.

260
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 11: And so maybe both are true.

261
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:03,000
Speaker 2: You know.

262
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 1: I like what you just said, Matt Lopez, not the

263
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,840
Speaker 1: part about murder. But so often we see things either

264
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,160
Speaker 1: or they don't have to be either or there can

265
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,400
Speaker 1: be a lot going on. For instance, you know, let

266
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:18,880
Speaker 1: me go to Chris mcdona. Matt, I don't know if

267
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,280
Speaker 1: you know Chris mcdona. He is the director of the

268
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:28,600
Speaker 1: Cole Case Foundation. Former homicide detective in Arizona. He has

269
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:34,040
Speaker 1: worked over three hundred homicides. I found him on the

270
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,000
Speaker 1: interview room on YouTube and it was fascinating.

271
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 2: That's one of the.

272
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,680
Speaker 1: First times, Chris McDonough, I can remember actually watching something

273
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,640
Speaker 1: for the entire forty minutes. It was that good and

274
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,239
Speaker 1: that informative. I don't mean good is in drama or comical,

275
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,720
Speaker 1: I mean informative. And I went, I've got to find

276
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,680
Speaker 1: this guy, and I did. Lucky me, Chris McDonough, I

277
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,600
Speaker 1: want you to follow up on what Matthew matt Lopez

278
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:02,480
Speaker 1: is saying.

279
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,680
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts, because I believe if.

280
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,040
Speaker 1: This were, as he says, just a murder, then we

281
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,320
Speaker 1: would have found her body, God help us in her home?

282
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,280
Speaker 1: Did just a murder? There's not really just a murder,

283
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 1: which leads me to all this talk about it's a

284
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:27,120
Speaker 1: family member. How about see I don't want it to

285
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,560
Speaker 1: be a family member, so I'm looking for alternatives. How

286
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,760
Speaker 1: about a cohort of a family member, or a son

287
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,680
Speaker 1: or a brother, or a husband, or an ex of

288
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,440
Speaker 1: a granny, nanny, or of someone that is in her church.

289
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, let's follow let's unravel it and

290
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,880
Speaker 1: follow it through to a logical conclusion.

291
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,360
Speaker 2: What about it? McDonough.

292
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,240
Speaker 7: You know Nancy and all the things you're talking about

293
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 7: there are reflective. What again, what we would call the

294
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 7: victim risk continuum. Right, environments, situation circumstance are this whole

295
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 7: low medium or high risk? And in this situation that.

296
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 1: You need to slow down nelly hold on the victim,

297
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,200
Speaker 1: what risk continuum?

298
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,760
Speaker 7: And so just think of an l the letter l

299
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,000
Speaker 7: over here, You've got environment, situation circumstance. So what's the environment,

300
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,520
Speaker 7: she's in her house, what's the situation she sounds sleep

301
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,800
Speaker 7: inside of her house, possibly at two am? And then

302
00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,760
Speaker 7: what's the totality of that circumstance. Well, that totality is

303
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,600
Speaker 7: she disappears at eighty four years old, potentially at two

304
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,280
Speaker 7: in the morning. So are those low, medium or high

305
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,560
Speaker 7: risk activities that she's involved in. They're all on the

306
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,400
Speaker 7: low side. And so that tells us that there had

307
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 7: to be some type of pre association what we call it,

308
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,239
Speaker 7: between the victim and the offender. And so then you

309
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,600
Speaker 7: stay at the house and you start working the case

310
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 7: that way, and in this situation, that's where the authorities

311
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,200
Speaker 7: first started. But then they kind of, you know, started

312
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 7: to work outside of that, and then the letters come in,

313
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,159
Speaker 7: so that kind of changed some of the dynamics. But

314
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:11,280
Speaker 7: everything in this case points towards an association with that house,

315
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,520
Speaker 7: and that the victim and the how or excuse me,

316
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,080
Speaker 7: the victim and the suspect at some point cross paths.

317
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,800
Speaker 7: That's exactly what this is telling us.

318
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,080
Speaker 1: Well, okay, see, guys, I told you there was a

319
00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,800
Speaker 1: reason that I saw him on the interview room and

320
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,720
Speaker 1: new he knows what he's talking about, and everybody on

321
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,200
Speaker 1: the panel, I'm not a school marm. Jump in, don't

322
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,360
Speaker 1: wait for me to call on you. Okay, please, no

323
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,280
Speaker 1: one will be offended. Jessica fann is joining us guys,

324
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,159
Speaker 1: Jessica senior investigative reporter of the US SON. They've been

325
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 1: breaking these left and right on this case. Jessica way in,

326
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:49,159
Speaker 1: I want to hear your thoughts.

327
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean this new random note I think is

328
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,760
Speaker 8: particularly interesting. There's no deadline for the new random node.

329
00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,479
Speaker 8: There's no proof of life again offered, and I think

330
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 8: that there's probably a little bit of it. It's pretty

331
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,080
Speaker 8: disturbing that there's no kind of redemand there's no new

332
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 8: ransom demand in this specific new ransom note. So it's

333
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 8: kind of you know, the way Savannah is reacting to it.

334
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 8: I think has a lot of people speculating about the

335
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 8: nature of what is in this ransom note. What's in

336
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,680
Speaker 8: this new note? It's not a random note because there's

337
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,160
Speaker 8: no ransom asked in it. One of the things that

338
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,679
Speaker 8: the local affiliate KOLD has said to CNN in an

339
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,640
Speaker 8: interview is that when this particular email came through their

340
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,919
Speaker 8: tip line, their staff was really upset by it. And

341
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,280
Speaker 8: so I think that that wording that reaction to the

342
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 8: information that was in this potential this new letter, if

343
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,160
Speaker 8: this is from our kidnappers, I think it's probably ominous

344
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,440
Speaker 8: about what that letter contains, that it was particularly upsetting

345
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,120
Speaker 8: to the local affiliates staff members who saw it.

346
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,359
Speaker 1: I want to follow up on what you just said,

347
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 1: was really upset by what was contained in the letter.

348
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,920
Speaker 1: You also stated Jessica Finn from the US Sun that

349
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 1: there was.

350
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 2: No proof of life in the note. How do we

351
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 2: know that that.

352
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 8: Was information that's came through I believe, I want to

353
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 8: say it's the news director to in an interview with

354
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:19,400
Speaker 8: CNN this weekend.

355
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,920
Speaker 2: And also you stated no new deadline and no further demand.

356
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:25,840
Speaker 2: How do we know.

357
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 8: That that's also information that's came directly from the station.

358
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 8: We do know that there was the previous letter that

359
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 8: the previous letter that went to TMZ and it went

360
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 8: to KOLD and it went to k GUN.

361
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 2: That was all.

362
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 8: It seems to be the same letter. That letter had

363
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 8: a ransom demand. It had it had the I believe

364
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 8: it was the Thursday deadline and the Monday deadline. So

365
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,560
Speaker 8: this new from what we understand, from what the news

366
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 8: station has said itself, there was no new deadline for this.

367
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 8: There was no new ransom demand with this letter, and

368
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 8: it appears that this letter is specific. We also was

369
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 8: a reaction to Savannah and her brother. Are those videos

370
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 8: that we had out last week where they're saying, please, please,

371
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 8: you know you need to reach out to us. We

372
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,920
Speaker 8: need to know that you have your our mother. And

373
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 8: it seems like this was like the kidnappers, you know,

374
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 8: actual reaction to the family begging for more contact, additional contact.

375
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 6: We received your message and we understand. We beg you

376
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 6: now to return our mother to us so that we

377
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 6: can celebrate with her. This is the only way we

378
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:40,360
Speaker 6: will have peace. This is very valuable to us and

379
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 6: we will.

380
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 1: Pay her pacemaker disconnected around two twenty.

381
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 5: Eight at am.

382
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 7: Door bill camera disconnects at to twelve am.

383
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 5: Software detects a person on a camera we just.

384
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 1: Got that timeline is one of the family a suspect.

385
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 2: The identify the.

386
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 4: Blood right there at the entryway as being Nancys.

387
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: Why would the door cam disconnect? Five o'clock has come

388
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,159
Speaker 1: and gone. What is the latest in the search for

389
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie this weekend? A lot of activity in the

390
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: search for Nancy. Let's start with what was on the

391
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 1: roof of her home and why did it take so

392
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: long for l E Law enforcement to go search there?

393
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 1: But I will say in their defense to Scott Iker,

394
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: let me give him a formal Oh, this is for

395
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: our friends at Fox News. That's from their flight team

396
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 1: up in the air. Scott, let me give him his

397
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: full intro. He's a digital forensics expert. He's a founding

398
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 1: member of the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team CAST FBI

399
00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: twenty two years police homicide with Norfolk, Virginia PD years.

400
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: He's worked many many missing persons cases. Currently with Precision

401
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: Cellular Analysis, he handles criminal cases, defense and civil cases

402
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: at p c A Precision Cellular Analysis Experts dot com. Scott,

403
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: everyone again is trashing the police, and okay, they kind

404
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:23,640
Speaker 1: of deserve.

405
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 2: A little bit of that. I've been angry with them

406
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 2: ever since they.

407
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: First released the scene, then they sequestered it again, then

408
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: they release it again.

409
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 2: It's back and forth like a seesaw with these people.

410
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: But how often do police typically get up on the

411
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: roof and look for evidence?

412
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: How about never? So can you really fault them?

413
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 9: I do understand what you're talking about. One of the

414
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 9: things that when the FBI gets involved is we take

415
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 9: help the local law enforcement, get more detailed, get just

416
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 9: flood agents into the area so we have the time

417
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 9: to do the things that they can't do. You got

418
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 9: to remember the sheriff's office still has to answer nine

419
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 9: one one calls, still has to do all their normal work,

420
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 9: and now they're having to deal with this massive celebrity

421
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 9: kidnapping or a missing person. One of the things when

422
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 9: the FBI comes into help is that we just give

423
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 9: them tons of agents. We give them agents to do searches,

424
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 9: we do evidence collection. Will help them take a lot

425
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 9: of the burden off the case, but they still own

426
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 9: the case, and we'll just help them out by them information.

427
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 9: So when we get there the second time, you know,

428
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 9: after they release the scene, now it's a very detailed walkthrough,

429
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 9: step by step of that whole property, the whole neighborhood,

430
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 9: and maybe the police didn't see that camera the first time.

431
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 9: We get on the roof, We get in the septic tanks,

432
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 9: we look in the gutters, we look everywhere, because we

433
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 9: have the time and the experience to do that.

434
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: What do you make then hold on, let me go

435
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: to Jessica Finn Jessica joining us us son.

436
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: Why were they on the roof and what if anything

437
00:24:59,160 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: did they find?

438
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 8: So on the roof was a camera.

439
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 2: We don't know.

440
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 8: It was a security camera. We don't know if it

441
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 8: was connected, We don't know, you know, if it was recording.

442
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 8: This was after the cops initially swept the property after

443
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 8: she disappeared. The cops had removed from what we know

444
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 8: from what we understand so far is that the cops

445
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 8: had removed most of the cameras and collected them into evidence.

446
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 8: We also have learned since this happened that the doorbell

447
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 8: was removed, likely by the alleged kidnappers. But on the

448
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 8: roof was found another camera that was not initially found

449
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 8: by local law enforcement, and the FBI removed that and

450
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 8: quickly moved it into evidence.

451
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 1: So to you, Dave mac joining us Crime Stories investigative reporter.

452
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: I doubt pretty seriously that kidnapper put a camera up

453
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: on the roof, so that means it was pre existing.

454
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 2: What else does that mean? Was it trained on the

455
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 2: front door.

456
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: Let's see that video from our friends at Fox News

457
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: Flat Light team again.

458
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 2: Question to you, Dave Mac.

459
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: You and I have gone over and over the capabilities

460
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: of the nest in Nancy e Elephant s Saturn T

461
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: teamwork the nest system. If it was part of that

462
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: same system, it likely was not recording. If it was

463
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: not part of that system, then we've got something.

464
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't imagine Nancy. They've given us, they being

465
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 4: law enforcement, have given us nothing about the camera. We

466
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 4: actually found out about it from a neighbor who was

467
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 4: actually watching coverage and saw the overhead shot an aerial

468
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 4: view and noticed that Nancy Guthrie's home. Her roof was

469
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 4: so clean and white, and they've had rain a lot

470
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 4: over the last couple of weeks, and a flat roof

471
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 4: like that gets dirty very quickly.

472
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 5: Now.

473
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 4: I don't know what how high the camera was up

474
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 4: on the roof in terms of from the roof line up,

475
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 4: but you know a flat roof, Nancy gives you a

476
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 4: clear line of sight. It could have been trained to

477
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 4: see out in the driveway, out on the road. You

478
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 4: would be able to see anybody approaching the home at

479
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 4: any given hour if it was set up separate from

480
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 4: the other cameras. And as you mentioned, we've already dealt

481
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 4: with the lack of video available based on how they

482
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 4: were using the cameras in the home.

483
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: What do you make of this search, Scott? Iiker of

484
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: getting something off of that roof, and we've been told

485
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: it was a.

486
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 2: Solar powered camera. Is that right, Jessica.

487
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 8: Fan, Yeah, that's right, that's right, it was a solar

488
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 8: powered camera.

489
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: Interesting because I don't believe any of the other Nest

490
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: equipment is solar powered, which is leading me, Scott to

491
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: my query. Was the rooftop camera part of the Nest

492
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: system or something altogether different?

493
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: What do you make of finding this?

494
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 9: I do think it's a very good find. It does

495
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 9: make sense if there is no electrical area up there

496
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 9: that they could do a solar power for that camera.

497
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 9: And I have Nests and I understand the situation, but

498
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 9: I don't understand why it wouldn't be connected to the

499
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 9: other Nest cameras. As long as it has power and

500
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 9: it can connect to Wi Fi. You have video from

501
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 9: that camera. It's weird that they didn't find that.

502
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: Person, So you do think it was likely connected to NEST.

503
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: I do Do you have something connected up on your roof?

504
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 10: I do well.

505
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 9: I have it on the second floor of my house

506
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 9: looks down my driveway into the street area, but it's higher,

507
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 9: but it's not all the way on the third story

508
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 9: of my house.

509
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: Interesting, Dave Matt, you learned a lot about Nancy Guthries.

510
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 2: We believe anyway her NEST system and a subscription.

511
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: Is that you're understanding the cameras on the inside, which

512
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: LA law enforcement went out of their way to state

513
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: they were not destroyed, they were not broken on the inside,

514
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: which led us to understand that they exist.

515
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 2: There are cameras on the inside of her home, but

516
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: not recording.

517
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: My point is, if the rooftop camera is part of

518
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: the NEST system of Scott Iiker believes, then if they

519
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: aren't recording, it's not recording.

520
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 2: What did you learn, Dave mac.

521
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 4: We have not learned about whether this camera was associated

522
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 4: with the other cameras in the house. But Nancy is

523
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 4: something that you pointed out. It's been referred to as

524
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 4: an electronic device, and the solar panel was removed along

525
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 4: with it. So if this camera was set up after

526
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 4: the fact, maybe this was set up separately and recorded differently.

527
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 5: We just don't know.

528
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 4: Because the law enforcement are not giving us information about

529
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 4: the electronics associated with the home. We're having to put

530
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 4: two and two together. But again, they did remove the

531
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 4: solar panel that was attached to the electronic device, the

532
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 4: camera on the root.

533
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: You know, Dave Matt interesting that you said that that

534
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: the solar panel was removed because Nest features this possibility.

535
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: It has this feature of solar powered, but you have

536
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: to have a compatible third party accessory to solar power it.

537
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: And you're telling me that the solar panel was also removed,

538
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: which means it did.

539
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 2: Have the compatible third party accessory. Correct.

540
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 4: Correct, That's absolutely correct.

541
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: Which means air go Scott Iiker, it may have been

542
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: recording if it was solar powered and not connected to

543
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: the Nest in her home in that that needed a

544
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: subscription and they didn't have one.

545
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 2: What do you think of that, Scott?

546
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 9: Yeah, if it is in fact separate, then the Nest system,

547
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 9: which we know they didn't have subscription to, so they

548
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 9: can't get the historical stuff.

549
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 5: It's separate.

550
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 9: Maybe it's going to record something that's going to be

551
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 9: available to law enforcement, but as they should, they're not

552
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 9: letting us know all the information they had.

553
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 4: TMZ and KOLDTV two soon receive an additional ransom note,

554
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 4: the content of which has not been shared with the public,

555
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 4: but results in Savannah's reply video speaking directly to the kidnapper,

556
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 4: indicating something in the most recent notes is changing the

557
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 4: way the family is responding. Experts point out the first

558
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 4: reply from the family was an emotional please, the next

559
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 4: was a demand for proof of life, and now publicly

560
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 4: offering to pay is strategic telling the kidnappers they're serious.

561
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 4: The responses are expertly crafted to keep the line of

562
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 4: communication open.

563
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: We don't have a person of interest, yet everyone is

564
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: under suspicious.

565
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: The possibilities are so overwhelming. They don't know if their

566
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 2: mother is alive, if she's dead.

567
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: There was no blood on the interior of the home

568
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: that they've been able to identify yet Day nine, Where

569
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: is nance eating Guthrie?

570
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 2: Also in the.

571
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: Last hours, the home of daughter Annie Guthrie has been

572
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: searched straight back out to Jessica Finn, joining us with

573
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: the US SUN.

574
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: What do we know.

575
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 8: So our reporter on the grounds there has been observing

576
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 8: the searches at both Nancy Guthrie and her daughter, Annie

577
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 8: Guthrie's homes, and we know that the FBI was there

578
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 8: with lights and flashlights searching Annie Guthrie's home the daughter

579
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 8: over this past weekend, over the last couple of days,

580
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 8: they were taking brown paper bags of what appears to

581
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 8: be collections of evidence out from the home. They were

582
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 8: in the garage, they were all over the property.

583
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, Jessica, could you

584
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: start over and slow it down. That's a lot of information.

585
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: You've got us all drinking from the fire hydrant, too much,

586
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: too fast.

587
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 2: Okay, start at the beginning.

588
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, So we have our reporter on the ground

589
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 8: in Arizona who's been observing the local law enforcement and

590
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 8: FBI coming and going from both Annie Guthrie's house and

591
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 8: her mother, Nancy Guthrie's house, and the FBI was at

592
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 8: Annie Guthrie's house, and they had been thoroughly searching the property.

593
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 8: It seems that there was lights going off. There was

594
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 8: what appeared to be from the street flashlights inside the

595
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 8: house of a thorough search throughout Annie Guthrie's home. There

596
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 8: were flashlights seen in the garage, all over her home property.

597
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 8: It wasn't just like you know one, The search wasn't

598
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 8: focused on one room. It appeared that at the FBI

599
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 8: was going room by room and at the end of

600
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 8: their exhaustive search of Annie Guthrie's home, they brought out

601
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 8: paper bed what was ground paper bags after the search

602
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 8: was completed, and what appeared would be evidence.

603
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: What time of the day or not did the search occur?

604
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 8: This was evening. This was an evening search. This was

605
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 8: where you would it was. It was dark enough out

606
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 8: that you were able to see that there were flashlights

607
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 8: moving in the house. The search was definitely happening throughout

608
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 8: the night and it actually wrapped up around ten thirty

609
00:33:59,160 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 8: at night.

610
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: Hmmm, So a late night search of Annie Guthrie's home,

611
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: including the FBI. The law enforcement agents came out with

612
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: brown paper bags. That's normal, and they were wearing gloves,

613
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: so it's not to contaminate anything they touched.

614
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 2: Matthew Lopez, what do you make of it?

615
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 11: Well, you have to remember that Annie and her husband

616
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 11: were I think the last people to see her alive. Right,

617
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 11: and she joined them. Miscuthrie joined them for dinner on

618
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 11: Sunday evening. Something that's curious to me is all the

619
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 11: doorbell and the cameras and everything that's on the house,

620
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 11: the harbor, on the house, but they haven't released the

621
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,479
Speaker 11: video of what's going on. Well, where's the video of

622
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,959
Speaker 11: Annie and her husband dropping mom off at the house

623
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 11: and Mom walking to the door. Where's that disconnect? Why

624
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 11: are we missing that evidence? And that least made to

625
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 11: believe one of two things is true. Either A they

626
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 11: have somebody on camera and they're not releasing it to us,

627
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 11: or be they don't have any evidence. They don't have

628
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 11: anything on camera. It's released to anybody, and they're scraping

629
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 11: at the barrel for it. And if you're scraping out

630
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 11: the barrel, then you've got to interview everybody. You've got

631
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 11: to investige everyone. And the closest people to Mssus Guthrie

632
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 11: were Annie and her husband that evening.

633
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on just a moment.

634
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: Let's analyze what Matthew Lopez just said. Chris McDonald joining me.

635
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 1: He is the star of the interview room on YouTube

636
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: form a homicide detective. Let's look at that overhead video

637
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: from our friends at Fox's, their flight team. He's saying,

638
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: and jump in mad if I'm wrong that even if

639
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 1: hold it on, that even if even if the cameras

640
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: we're disc if the ring can the door cam let

641
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 1: me say it's not a ring was taken off at

642
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: the time of the kidnap, then why don't we have

643
00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: video of missus Guthrie, Nancy Guthrie being brought home that

644
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: night around ninety five?

645
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: Look at this, that's the back door.

646
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if we could get an aerial view of

647
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: the home. Does the front door offer a view of

648
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: the driveway and the garage.

649
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 10: The camera on the front door would not.

650
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 7: In fact, I remember the sheriff said when they got home,

651
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 7: she was dropped off at ninety eight pm and that

652
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 7: there was an activation in the garage door and the

653
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 7: garage door then closed at nine point fifty pm, so

654
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 7: about two minutes for missus Guthrie, you know, allegedly to

655
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 7: come through the garage possibly to be in the house.

656
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 7: And when we look at the front door camera, the

657
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 7: next camera, that's a battery operated camera. So even though

658
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 7: it's taken off the and if it's attached to the

659
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 7: Wi Fi or whatever, it's still going to roll. It's

660
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 7: still on because it's not hardwired into that house, and

661
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 7: that will probably drop into a server, as Scott knows

662
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 7: more than anybody on this panel. And then from there,

663
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 7: if you look in the back there where they're taking

664
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 7: that camera off, that's focused at the back door. And

665
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 7: remember in one of the ransom notes, allegedly there was

666
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 7: this reported information about the spotlight being disconnected or something

667
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 7: to that effect.

668
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 10: If you look at the.

669
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 7: Back door there in that drone shot, there's a spotlight

670
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 7: hanging down there, and they also recovered that particular right

671
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 7: there to the right. This is allegedly the door that

672
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 7: was left wide opened by the suspect, which makes no

673
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 7: sense in any way, shape or form, which is leading

674
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 7: me to start thinking about, Okay, do we need to

675
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 7: leave this house and go to another's house? And perhaps

676
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 7: that's why folks are now pushing over towards Annie's.

677
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 2: I don't know what you're saying.

678
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 7: Explain, Well, what I mean by that is, remember the

679
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 7: other day that you fed went into Annie's house. Okay,

680
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 7: And as Scott pointed out this, or the defense attorney

681
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 7: pointed out, that's the last place she was seeing.

682
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 10: So that's the last proof of life potentially.

683
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 7: So I think they probably went in that house to

684
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 7: see if there's any connection and relationship to a digital download,

685
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 7: you know, to maybe even the guy in La.

686
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: When you're saying that guy in La, are you referring

687
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: to Kalila, the guy that's been arrested for a fake

688
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: ransom hoax? So you're trying to say, is he connected

689
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: with the quote real kidnapper?

690
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 10: Well, I'm trying to say, is he connected in.

691
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 7: Some way, shape or form, you know, to maybe the

692
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 7: family in that circle, remember that circle of influence that

693
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 7: we talked about earlier.

694
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, but what does that have to do with anything,

695
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: because he's already been determined that he's a crank.

696
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 7: No, we get that, we get that, But how does

697
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 7: a crank have both of their phone numbers?

698
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: Ah, I see what you're saying.

699
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 7: That's that's what they're trying to tie together. So they

700
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 7: would go into Annie Shoush and download any digital information

701
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 7: because she was the point of contact from that guy

702
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 7: and either eliminate him or put it in the circle.

703
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: Interesting, iiker, I want you to take that into account

704
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: as well as the flood, the floodlight hanging down and

705
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: everything digital.

706
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: Give me your analysis.

707
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,439
Speaker 9: Well, when you say everything digital, that covers a lot.

708
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 9: We talked about the you fed and that's used to

709
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 9: download phones. Other devices are used to download computers. I

710
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 9: remember right, Nancy Guthrie's phone was still at the house,

711
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 9: So that's one thing they definitely would have used the

712
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 9: you fed for. And we've got so much other digital evidence, cameras,

713
00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 9: neighborhood cameras, house cameras, tower dumps, all the stuff that

714
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 9: they're looking at. And that's a ton of stuff to

715
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 9: go through, especially when you're dealing with the power dumps,

716
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 9: trying to figure out who was in that area at

717
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 9: the time that she went missing and the days prior

718
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 9: and the days after.

719
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 2: Got a question for you.

720
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: I'm not ruling anything out at all, nothing, but you

721
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: just heard mcdonnaugh talking about we need to look at

722
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: another residence that maybe she was never even at that home.

723
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: That's where I think he's going with that. But wouldn't

724
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: her phone have been triangulated or look for pings that

725
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: night to make sure she actually made it back home.

726
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: That doesn't take a long time, does it.

727
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 5: It doesn't.

728
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 9: And when you have the victim there that's implied consent.

729
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 9: So now you can go right to the phone companies

730
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 9: and get their records. And this is an exigen situation anyway,

731
00:40:55,960 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 9: so you're already asking for records without court orders as

732
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 9: we have a threat to life situation, So getting Nancy

733
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 9: Gothrie's records would have been one of the first steps

734
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 9: to see where she was, did it match the other

735
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 9: famili's timeline of information, to validate everything and make sure

736
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 9: we're on the right track. Since we started this as

737
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 9: a missing person and now we're getting into more of

738
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 9: a ransom.

739
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 5: Type situation.

740
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

741
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: Dave mac I know you heard what Scott Iiker just said. Clarify,

742
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: we know her cell phone was at home because it

743
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: was found at home. Her cell phone was at the home.

744
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: How we're truly cynical. I would wonder did she ever

745
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: even make it home, But for now I'm choosing to

746
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: believe Annie Guthrie, Savannah Guthrie's sister. I think it's too

747
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: elaborate that she never made it home and that they

748
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: came in to a m ish and staged this whole thing.

749
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: The more elaborate a plan come becomes, the least likely

750
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 1: that's what happened. We know her phone was there, but

751
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: do we know she Nancy Guthrie was there.

752
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 4: No, we do not know that absolutely. But using our brains,

753
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,439
Speaker 4: we know that she took an uber at five point

754
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 4: thirty two to Annie's. We know that Tamaso Sioni dropped

755
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 4: Nancy off at home at nine forty eight pm. Grudge

756
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 4: door opens. He watched her go into the house. Grudge

757
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 4: your closes nine.

758
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: To fifty pm.

759
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 4: The next act a kivity we have is one for

760
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 4: seven am the doorbelt camera disconnected. We know there was

761
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 4: a spike around two am on her on Nancy Guthrie's pastemaker.

762
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: Step right there, stop stop stopping right there. You got me,

763
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: Dave Matt. You answered my question. She did go back

764
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: to that home. She did, so we don't have to

765
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: pretend or hypothesize or spin our wheels on she never

766
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: made it back to the home because you have to

767
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: be connected. Your pacemaker which is in your chest has

768
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: to be connected.

769
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: To that home bluetooth.

770
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: And it was because there was a spike in the

771
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: pacemaker in her heart around two am and it became

772
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: disconnected shortly after two am. Also, her cane was there.

773
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,479
Speaker 1: If you look in most of the pictures, you'll see

774
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: her with a cane. Her cane was there. Anders really

775
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: uncontroverted evidence that she was there. So everybody that's spinning

776
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: out this crazy theory that she was never taken home,

777
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: she was.

778
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 8: This is a beloved mother and grandmother.

779
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 1: She's eighty four, she's on meds, she's got a heart problem,

780
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 1: she's got a pastmaker.

781
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: She's eighty four years old.

782
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 5: Her health, her heart is special.

783
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,479
Speaker 1: Would they know enough to take her pills to keep

784
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: her alive? In Savannah's most recent plea, I noticed she

785
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: did not directly address her mother as she did in

786
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 1: the original message, which was excruciating to watch Savannah and

787
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 1: her brother and sister's pain. But that pain etched on

788
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: Savannah's face just heart breaking. Well, we've got to bring

789
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,919
Speaker 1: up the search of the septic tank to Dave mac

790
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter, what happened?

791
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 4: Law enforcement made a trip over to Nancy Guthrie's house

792
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 4: once again. This time they went into the septic tank area,

793
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 4: which there is a fairly large manhole type cover over

794
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 4: her septic system. It's dissimilar from what oftentimes we expect

795
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 4: to see from a septic tank, but it is fairly

796
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 4: common nowadays, and they, being law enforcement, were seen with

797
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 4: the lid to the septic tank open and again about

798
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 4: the size of a manhole, with a long stick poking

799
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 4: it into the septic tank to apparently see what they

800
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 4: could find.

801
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: Guys, the video and photos you were seeing are from

802
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: our friends at Fox News Flight Team to Matt Lopez

803
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: joining us for now criminal defense attorney in this jurisdiction.

804
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 2: I've dealt with a lot of evidence.

805
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: Septic tanks one of the things I don't like to

806
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 1: deal with. For all the city folk out there, what

807
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: is a septic tank? When you're out in a rural

808
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: area such as where Missus Guthrie lived, you may not

809
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,479
Speaker 1: be connected to as we country folks like to say,

810
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: city water that includes city septic and you will have

811
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: a tank, literally a septic tank in your backyard. I

812
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: noticed a lot of outlets are saying there was a manhole.

813
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: It's not a manhole in the traditional sense, it's a

814
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: septic tank. So what evidence were they looking for? They

815
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: were not looking for a body. I really do not

816
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: believe that at this juncture. So what could they have

817
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: been looking for? Lopez, You've dealt with all sorts of evidence.

818
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 11: Well, if they weren't looking for the body, they could

819
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 11: be looking did the perpetrator or flush something down the toilet, right,

820
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 11: in which case they could be looking for DNA. I

821
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 11: don't know if that would be the case, because if

822
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 11: you're poking at something with a stick, of course, how

823
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 11: are you going to find some DNA evidence with that?

824
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 11: My thought would be they were looking for a body,

825
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 11: and I know it's obvious, or you know, you say

826
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 11: that maybe it's probably not the body, but I think

827
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 11: you just got to check all of the boxes, and

828
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 11: it was a box being checked.

829
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 5: They were looking for a body.

830
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: That's a really good point, just tacking the boxes, making

831
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: sure they did everything possible. You're right again, Matthew Lopez,

832
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: Karen start. I want to hear your thoughts tonight.

833
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: Well.

834
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 12: One of the things that I'm thinking about, Nancy is

835
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 12: the perpetrator and the difference between the two notes. And

836
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,359
Speaker 12: it seems to me in the beginning this is speculation,

837
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 12: of course, and I'm alleging this, but the guy was

838
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 12: or whoever it was, was looking for the kind of

839
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 12: attention I mentioned earlier with the news actually going to

840
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 12: TMZ and wanting people to know what's going on and

841
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 12: probably following it and being excited and feeling powerful. But

842
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 12: when it comes to the second time, I'm thinking that

843
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 12: maybe it became too much and this person or people

844
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 12: became felt like they were cornered that there was they

845
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 12: started to get frightened. Instead of peaving out their feathers,

846
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 12: they began to be scared that said they would be

847
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,439
Speaker 12: found out or it was getting to be too much,

848
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 12: and so they are no longer saying anything like your

849
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 12: mother could be alive or is.

850
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,879
Speaker 3: Alive, or you know, if you want her, but more

851
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 3: like if you want to have anything to do with her,

852
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 3: if you if you want to be ever have her back,

853
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 3: instead of acting like they could actually get her back alive.

854
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 13: Right Chris McDonald, Yeah, No, I agree with doc where

855
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 13: you know, I think it's interesting that Savannah in her

856
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 13: last police said if you're listening, and she also said,

857
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 13: we understand now that's that that's tactical one on one

858
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 13: BAU language for trying to create that empathy within the

859
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 13: suspect to treat the victim potentially as a real human being.

860
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 7: And the problem that I'm having with that response is

861
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 7: she's not getting a response and that's problematic in of itself,

862
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 7: which would go towards the proof of life problem.

863
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 9: I agree with Chris, there's a lot of speculation going

864
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 9: on here on is she alive, If she's not alive,

865
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 9: is this real ransom. I hope it all works out

866
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 9: that they you know, she's alive, and they get her back.

867
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 9: But I do take from what you've said and what

868
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 9: the other panelists have said, it might look like she's

869
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 9: not alive anymore and they're pleading to get her remains

870
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 9: back so they can celebrate her life have a proper funeral.

871
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 2: Jessica Fan joining us the US SUN.

872
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: I'm still holding on to the one word with with

873
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: celebrate with the mom.

874
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 8: I am too, Nancy. I mean, when I first heard

875
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 8: that that final message that we that was released by Savannah,

876
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 8: I really was hoping that that the way she said

877
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 8: I want to sell it, we want to celebrate with her.

878
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 8: I was hoping that that meant that they got some

879
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 8: sort of proof of life. But now that more information

880
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 8: has come out about this latest letter, I'm feeling less hopeful, unfortunately.

881
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,760
Speaker 8: And just one other thing, I know your expert panelists

882
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 8: are amazing. One of them had mentioned that this is

883
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 8: most likely somebody in a concentric circle. And one of

884
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 8: the things that's just been kind of on my mind

885
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 8: over the last several days as I've been following it

886
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 8: is that Nancy, everybody, the only people knew that Nancy

887
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 8: had this heart medication that was absolutely important for her

888
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 8: to be alive, to stay alive. Basically, when it comes

889
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 8: to family members that are really close, it just makes

890
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 8: me wonder they would have known that you needed the

891
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 8: medication if they were in it to do this.

892
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,439
Speaker 4: And Dave mac Nancy, I assue him looking at that

893
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 4: last message, and I'm was hopeful. Now I'm not. But

894
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 4: the one thing they didn't ask for was proof of life.

895
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 4: They offered in this message a way that there could

896
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 4: be resolution where both parties can feel like they're satisfied

897
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 4: in the end. That's what it seemed to me.

898
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 2: We wait as justice unfolds.

899
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about Missus

900
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 1: Guthrie's case, please dial toll free eight hundred two two

901
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: five five three two four repeat eight hundred two two

902
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: five five three two four or anonymous tips five two

903
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: zero eight eight two seven four six three three five

904
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: two zero eight eight two seven four six three There

905
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: is a fifty thousand dollars reward. We remember an American hero,

906
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:16,359
Speaker 1: Trooper Hunter Bennett, Arizona Department Public Safety, just twenty eight,

907
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: killed in the line of duty, leaving behind his young

908
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: wife turned widow. American hero Trooper Hunter Bennett Nancy Gray

909
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,