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Speaker 1: A very happy Cardinals off day after a not so

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Speaker 1: happy Cardinals road trip.

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Speaker 2: The local nine went one.

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Speaker 1: In six on the road, and they lost a lot

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Speaker 1: of late inning ball games, which has capitalized. On Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: series finale against the Atlanta Braves, Ryan Fernandez serves up

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Speaker 1: a three run homer in the eighth inning to Eli

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Speaker 1: White and who I totally heard of entering the game.

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Speaker 2: I totally knew who that was. And it just keeps.

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Speaker 1: Snowballing for this A Bullpen Welcome back to Cardinal territory,

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Speaker 1: Katie and Bernie coming at you for a Bullpen Breakdown episode.

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Speaker 1: Lots to talk about, lots to say. Bernie, We'll start

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Speaker 1: with you.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of the situation here?

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, where to start? Right with you? The

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Speaker 3: You know, first of all we talk about you know,

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Speaker 3: they're two and eleven on the road. There's only been

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Speaker 3: one Cardinals team worse than that after thirteen games. And

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Speaker 3: I know you're thinking, well, why are you talking about that.

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Speaker 3: I'm talking about that because you know what they're the

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Speaker 3: bullpen's roady are is seven point twenty seven. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's the needless to say, that's the worst of road

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Speaker 3: raf by a bullpen in the majors. So I'm bringing

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Speaker 3: that up because you know, I'm not saying that neither

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Speaker 3: one of us are going to say today that you know,

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Speaker 3: the bullpen's the only problem. Like I was really ticked

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Speaker 3: off watching that game in Atlanta yesterday where the Cardinals

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Speaker 3: had a chance of you know, get them runs off

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Speaker 3: Bryce Elder who has not been very good at all,

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Speaker 3: and they had a chance to take advantage of a

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Speaker 3: fatigue Atlanta bullpen, and they did, but the game is

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Speaker 3: still there and it just all blew up again. It's

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Speaker 3: just Napalm City all the time. So I don't know

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Speaker 3: how it gets better. That's the thing. I don't know

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Speaker 3: how it gets better because Ryan Fernandez and Jojo Romero

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Speaker 3: have both gone way way south, and they got to

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Speaker 3: get Fernandez in the minor leagues. Try to try to

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Speaker 3: fix them. Olli Marvel, and I want, I really want

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Speaker 3: to get your thake on this. Oli Marvel made it

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Speaker 3: very clear yesterday that you know, don't look for help

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Speaker 3: down below. That's not going to change anything. And I

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Speaker 3: thought that was a I thought there was a loaded

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Speaker 3: comment him, but no, there's no question about it. The

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Speaker 3: bullpen was a Cardinal's number one strength without a doubt

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Speaker 3: last year, and now it is the number one liability,

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Speaker 3: and it is worse than I even imagined. And I

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Speaker 3: thought it the bullpen performance would go down some this

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Speaker 3: year because history tells us you're not going to get

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Speaker 3: too exceptional seasons in a row out of your bullpen

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Speaker 3: because relievers are just all over the place. But I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I could not comprehend that it would be as bad

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Speaker 3: as it is. It's not only just the performance, but

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Speaker 3: it's okay bad performance. Where are the solutions? The answer is,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, because they don't know, right, correct.

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Speaker 1: I think I have to say it now. I think

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Speaker 1: I have to admit that I was wrong about the bullpen.

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Speaker 1: I like you, I didn't expect them to be absolutely

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Speaker 1: nails like they were last year, and some aggression was

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Speaker 1: going to take place from any player that overperformed last season.

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Speaker 2: I did not think it would have regressed to this point.

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Speaker 1: Jojo Romero, Ryan Fernandez two staples in last year's bullpen.

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Speaker 1: And when we get into this, because you brought up

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Speaker 1: the quote that always said and we'll get there, it's

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Speaker 1: important to note that this bullpen was crafted and designed

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Speaker 1: with the belief that Fernandez and Romeiro would take steps forward,

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Speaker 1: not backwards, and certainly not fall into this extent that

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Speaker 1: they have. I mean, Fernandez has an era over eleven

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Speaker 1: Jojo an Ara over seven kids just getting killed by

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Speaker 1: Riety's as you pointed out on last week's show, and

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Speaker 1: all they did was say, put this under their runway platform, right,

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Speaker 1: It's all about opportunity.

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Speaker 2: Let's get these guys opportunities.

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Speaker 1: Well, relief pitching is so volatile, not even from season

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Speaker 1: to season, not even from month to month, but from

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Speaker 1: week to week. And this quote from Allie Marmal I'll

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Speaker 1: read it because I like you, Bernie. When he said

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Speaker 1: it on camera, I was like, Oh, that's that is

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Speaker 1: saying the quiet part out loud. Here's what he said

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Speaker 1: after Jojo and Ryan Fernandez combined for that thanning. This

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Speaker 1: is who we got and we got to get them

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Speaker 1: back on track. There's nothing coming from down below where

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Speaker 1: it's going to change. We have to get these guys better,

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Speaker 1: and the only way is for them to pitch. It's

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Speaker 1: absolutely frustrating, but we're going to keep going with them.

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Speaker 1: We have to continue to encourage them and continue to

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Speaker 1: get on the other side of this. I took this

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Speaker 1: the exact same way you did. That was a what

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Speaker 1: else do you want me to do? We don't have

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Speaker 1: anyone in the miners that's gonna come up and fix

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Speaker 1: this problem. Now, it's use. They don't have guys you

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Speaker 1: can bring back. You can recall Chris Roycroft. You can

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Speaker 1: see what Riley O'Brien looks like.

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Speaker 2: At this point, I get.

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Speaker 1: Over the first two weeks of the season letting Fernandez

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Speaker 1: go out there and trying to figure it out.

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Speaker 2: I get that. However, it's been a month and that

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Speaker 2: slider hasn't looked any better, and the more he goes

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Speaker 2: out there and the more demoralizing it gets. So can

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Speaker 2: you make the change to send Fernandez down and get

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Speaker 2: him right in the miners and bring up one of

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Speaker 2: those other guys?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Sure, But are you really changing anything, Bernie, because all

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Speaker 1: you're changing is the name on the journey? Are you

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Speaker 1: changing the problem? No, you still don't have that. You

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable under Phil Maton. And that's I think what

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Speaker 1: Ali Marmal is saying.

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Speaker 3: And he is exactly what he was saying, and he

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Speaker 3: that message was directly, well not directly, because it's not

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Speaker 3: like Moe was standing in the room, but that message

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Speaker 3: was sent to John Moselek, and I have no doubt

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Speaker 3: about that whatsoever. And I know how these things work.

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Speaker 3: I also know that Ali is very frustrated, as he said,

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Speaker 3: by the situation, and you know, he's kind of been

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Speaker 3: left to try to figure this out on his own.

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Speaker 3: Except they don't have enough depth, they don't have enough talent.

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Speaker 3: And I don't like to turn these cardinal territories with

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Speaker 3: you because it's a it's a privilege to do them

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Speaker 3: with you. So I don't want to turn it into

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Speaker 3: me doing the stat boy thing. But do it. I

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Speaker 3: put this on X today. Okay, if we take Steven

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Speaker 3: Mattz's innings in the bullpen, not the start, but in

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Speaker 3: the bullpen, So Lay, Mayton Hellsley and Matt's forty nine

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Speaker 3: to two thirds innings, they have a one nine to

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Speaker 3: nine ERA, right, everyone else in that bullpen has got

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Speaker 3: a nine to thirty three e er combine. Is that unbelievable? Seriously?

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Speaker 2: Crazy? Is that nuts?

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Speaker 3: So? And that that includes Matt's in the bullpen, and

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Speaker 3: he's really not a full time bullpen you know, guy,

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Speaker 3: I mean Lay, he's been phenomenal. Uh, may Tom's been

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Speaker 3: really really good. Uh you mentioned the other day, and

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Speaker 3: I agree with you. I do worry though, that they're

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Speaker 3: going to run him into the ground. Ryan Helsley is

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Speaker 3: an interesting case to me because you know, the last

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Speaker 3: sixteen games he's he's only had three save opportunities. Like,

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Speaker 3: he doesn't pitch anymore, no, we were.

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Speaker 2: I mentioned that to him in Atlanta. I said, hey,

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Speaker 2: have you have you pitched yet? And he was like nope.

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Speaker 2: I was like maybe today, maybe today you will.

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Speaker 3: And it's interesting because he's had some by by a

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Speaker 3: closer standards, he's had some extended absences from pitching, and

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Speaker 3: if you notice when he does pitch after these absences,

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Speaker 3: he he does not have his vintage strikeout stuff. So

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Speaker 3: it actually works against him. And so I don't want

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Speaker 3: to jump ahead and see I'm already all over the

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Speaker 3: place because there's just so much there. But it's okay.

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Speaker 3: Some of the Cardinals, No, Ali is Olli's very very frustrated,

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Speaker 3: you know, I think Oli. You know, frankly, I think

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Speaker 3: Ali had to pester Mo over and over and over

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Speaker 3: and over again to get philm Meton, and Mo just kept,

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Speaker 3: you know, waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting I

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Speaker 3: guess till the you know, he got the rock bottom

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Speaker 3: price on him, which it seems. But where do you

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Speaker 3: go from here? And I will I will, I will

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Speaker 3: say this about Ali. Okay, take Matt Sjohnson. I'm not

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Speaker 3: saying this guy's like the next Jason Israehausen, but listen,

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Speaker 3: you don't have depth. You're leaning on guys like Fernandez

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Speaker 3: and Romero who were just just getting blown up every time,

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Speaker 3: just about. And if you're going to bring up someone

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Speaker 3: and it's someone who did lead double A league in

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Speaker 3: saves last year and he's been okay at Memphis, he's

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Speaker 3: got to pitch. You can't just let him sit around.

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Speaker 3: He's got to pitch. And I could use the old

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Speaker 3: the old saying, it's like, well, you know, he can't

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Speaker 3: be any worse than a couple of these guys down there,

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Speaker 3: you know. So, But I worry that they're gonna I

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Speaker 3: worry they're going to overpitch lady. I worry they're going

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Speaker 3: to overpitch Maton. And then when they do that, then

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Speaker 3: it's you think it's bad now. But I do think

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Speaker 3: Ali and uh and Dusty Blake are conscientious about that.

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Speaker 3: I think they want to protect those guys. They're just

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Speaker 3: yeah and you and you're right there and you're always

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Speaker 3: talking to them about that. Anyway, that's sort of my

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Speaker 3: opening thoughts on this with a good stat thrown in,

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Speaker 3: so you take it from there.

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Speaker 2: That was a great stat.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about Mayton because we collectively,

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Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory family and Cardinals fans in general, tend to

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Speaker 1: really overanalyze the bullpen in general.

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Speaker 2: And it makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Because when when the bullpen collapses, usually the game result

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Speaker 1: comes with it. So I thought Ollie made great points

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Speaker 1: yesterday about the runway that the organization extends to position players.

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Speaker 1: You go out there and you run Jordan Walker out

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Speaker 1: there every day, and if he goes over four, he's

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Speaker 1: in the line at the next day.

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Speaker 2: Same with Nolan Gorman. Take your pick.

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Speaker 1: But if you were extending opportunities to these players in

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Speaker 1: the bullpen, well, Ryan Fernandez goes out there and blows

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Speaker 1: a lead and the Cardinals lose. You're fixating on that

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Speaker 1: because it had a direct impact on the result of

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Speaker 1: the game. So the opportunity and the runway for the

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Speaker 1: bullpen is so much more complex than the opportunity and

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Speaker 1: the run for position players. Also the way that we

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Speaker 1: analyze bullpen usage. I'm not here and I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to say Allie Marmel and Dusty Bay have been perfect,

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Speaker 1: but there are so many other factors and which reliever

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Speaker 1: comes in when other than right handed or left handed

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Speaker 1: handedness splits and the three batter minimum. So yesterday, Miles

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Speaker 1: michaelis great job, six scoreless Inians. You would have wished

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Speaker 1: the offense could get to Bryce Elder.

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Speaker 2: They couldn't.

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Speaker 1: Kyle Lahey comes in, does a great job, and you're

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Speaker 1: feeling pretty good about where you are coming into the

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Speaker 1: eighth and then you know, I'm looking in the press

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Speaker 1: box and I take out my little binoculars and I'm

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Speaker 1: seeing Jojo and Fernandez warming at the same time, and

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Speaker 1: I think, Okay, Phil Mayton has to be down today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And we were looking back and he didn't pitch on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: but he did pitch on Monday, so we were a

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Speaker 1: little confused on why he was down. Jojo comes in,

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Speaker 1: you know how that goes? Fernandez? Same thing. Well, Phil Mayton,

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Speaker 1: And this is part of this is partly on the

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Speaker 1: front office because they signed him so late in the spring,

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Speaker 1: He's only got a three week ramp up period. And

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Speaker 1: if you're looking at this from a calendar perspective, he's

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Speaker 1: in week six of his throwing program. In week six

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Speaker 1: of spring training, you are throwing too, maybe three times

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Speaker 1: a week. If Phil Mayton would have come in the

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Speaker 1: game on Wednesday, that would have been five times in

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Speaker 1: a week. And he is as pro as it can be. No,

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Speaker 1: he blew a game on Monday, and he was waiting

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Speaker 1: for us at his locker like, yeah, come on, let's

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Speaker 1: do it. And he's going to take the ball every

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Speaker 1: time he wants to. He's durable for a reason. But

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Speaker 1: if you overuse him in AP then.

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Speaker 2: You don't have him in June.

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Speaker 1: Not only are you screwing your team, you're costing that

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Speaker 1: player's career and playing time. You know, film Aton's a

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Speaker 1: ten year veteran. In this game, he goes out. He

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Speaker 1: barely got a job in the first place, which is

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Speaker 1: crazy because he's been great. He goes out and he's

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Speaker 1: injured and he hurts himself. You're impacting his career as well.

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Speaker 1: So we have to think about those things, which makes

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Speaker 1: explaining bullpen usage really frustrating for me personally. And again

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that you know, every single decision has

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Speaker 1: been the right one, but the constant clamoring over why

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Speaker 1: wasn't this reliever used or why was on the bench?

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, we need to process this not

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Speaker 1: just from the result of the game, because there are

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Speaker 1: plenty of times where the wrong reliever comes in and

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Speaker 1: does great and we don't talk about it.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: The several conversation that we need to have is that

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Speaker 1: there just aren't many good relievers that can pitch for

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Speaker 1: the Cardinals right now, and it's not like you can

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Speaker 1: keep running out at this point. Fernandez and Romero they're

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Speaker 1: not right and they need to get to be right.

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Speaker 1: They're going to be pivotal for this team down the stretch.

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Speaker 1: It's April twenty fourth, but we're almost right on time

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Speaker 1: for our regularly scheduled April collapse.

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Speaker 2: You need to avoid that, and so by doing that,

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Speaker 2: you have to get those two right.

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Speaker 1: The problem is, Bernie, like we talked about, who is

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Speaker 1: going to come up and help you, You have one

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Speaker 1: of your best relievers in the rotation in Matthew Libertoire,

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Speaker 1: which is where he needs to be.

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Speaker 2: Stephen Matz.

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Speaker 1: You can't have him in that one ning role or

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Speaker 1: so because he needs length to come in his SPOS

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Speaker 1: star in the rotation. This is all a microcosm of

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Speaker 1: saying what we have known for years. The Cardinals problems

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Speaker 1: are not just major league level. They have infiltrated through

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Speaker 1: the entire organization. They have virtually zero depth, and they

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Speaker 1: presented a major league roster with a razor thin margin

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Speaker 1: for error, and that is why they are ten and sixteen.

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Speaker 3: I totally agree with that, And you know, I want

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Speaker 3: to go back to something. You're right, there's a deep,

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Speaker 3: fundamental flaw with where it's all just kind of hit

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Speaker 3: home really really hard because it's been going this way.

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Speaker 3: In fact, what they did last year with that bullpen

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Speaker 3: was amazing, but it was also onrealistic to expect it

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Speaker 3: to be even close to that. But I want to

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Speaker 3: go back to something he said, because you're so right

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Speaker 3: about you know, and I look at this way. A

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Speaker 3: manager is going to catch hell one way or the other.

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Speaker 3: Like take philm Maton, take your example. It was really

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Speaker 3: really pushing it way too far to ask that guy

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Speaker 3: to pitch again yesterday because you want him for one

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Speaker 3: hundred and sixty two games. But the way it works,

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Speaker 3: and this is true, I'm not ripping Cardinals fans. It's

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Speaker 3: true of any fan base the way, and it's true

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Speaker 3: of some media for that matter. So you have Phil

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Speaker 3: phil Maton, who clearly needed a day. He just he

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Speaker 3: would have pitched, but that's not the point. He clearly

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Speaker 3: needed today, right. So if Ali brings him in and

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Speaker 3: he's tired, he doesn't have his sharp stuff or whatever,

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Speaker 3: and he gets blasted, it's like, well, he's been pitching

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Speaker 3: a lot, why did he bring him in? You know,

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Speaker 3: you know. And if he doesn't, if he doesn't pitch,

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Speaker 3: it's like, well, why doesn't he used phil Maton? He's

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Speaker 3: got Mayton down there, what is he doing? So Ali,

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Speaker 3: actually any manager could lose in two different ways in

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Speaker 3: this whole debate where fans are demanding a certain reliever

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Speaker 3: come in. Either Mayton because he's pitched so much and

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Speaker 3: he needs a day, is going to get ripped up

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Speaker 3: in the in in his appearance, or and it happens

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Speaker 3: a lot to relievers even he's durable, or he's going

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Speaker 3: to get hurt. So they're screaming for him come into

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Speaker 3: the game. But if he comes into the game and

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Speaker 3: he's bad because he's tired, or he comes into the game,

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Speaker 3: gosh forbid, you know, and he gets hurt. What are

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Speaker 3: they going to be screaming about?

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Speaker 2: Why screaming the game?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Why? What's why's Olly running this guy into the ground. See,

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Speaker 3: I had a thing if if you don't mind this

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Speaker 3: real quick, because it's all related. I gave Mike Matheni

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Speaker 3: the U a very a very unfriendly nickname in terms

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Speaker 3: of his bullpen handling, right, I nickname him, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: I'm a bad person. I nicknamed him the wood Chipper.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: And and because it's like relievers would be out there

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Speaker 3: all the time and then like one by one, they

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Speaker 3: would just be physically destroyed. Our mutual good friend Trevor

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Speaker 3: Rosenthal was one of those guys. Seth Manus was one

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Speaker 3: of those guys. Kevin Segress was one of those guys.

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Speaker 3: Matt Bowman was one of those guys. I mean, on

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Speaker 3: and on and on and on. So many of those

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Speaker 3: relievers were just broken, primarily I think through over usage

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Speaker 3: right where you just pushed it too far. Even Mike

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Speaker 3: Schelt and I think we both admire his skills as

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Speaker 3: a manager. In the first half of the season in Gosh,

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Speaker 3: I forget these years now, but they had three excellent relievers.

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Speaker 3: It's twenty twenty one. I believe I had three. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: they had. They had three excellent relievers in alexres Uh, Giovanni,

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Speaker 3: Giho Goz and Hennis's Cabrera.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there's seventy and Schilk.

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Speaker 3: Just ran them out there over and over and over

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Speaker 3: and over again. And I wasn't second guessing because when

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Speaker 3: I was writing stuff about I was saying, well, you

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Speaker 3: need you need to You might want to lighten us

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Speaker 3: up a little bit. I mean, this is this is

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Speaker 3: really pushing Alex Reyes and Diego's at some point is

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Speaker 3: just to lose his steam, and Cabrera looks tired. Those guys,

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Speaker 3: all of them were just totally different in a bad

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Speaker 3: way in the second half. I mean, she'll burn his

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Speaker 3: bullpen out, you listen. I empathize with managers. It's got

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Speaker 3: to be tempting to go with your best guys, maybe

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Speaker 3: more than you should, but you do it anyway. But

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Speaker 3: it's just bad policy, and it's just you know, eventually

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Speaker 3: they're gonna crack. Eventually they're going to break. And if

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Speaker 3: you're you're thinking about one hundred and sixty two games,

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Speaker 3: you've got to have at least some moderation in there.

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Speaker 3: It can't be so intense and extreme. So I've seen

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Speaker 3: manager after manager after manager do this, So I I'm

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Speaker 3: particularly sensitive to this type of situation because because I'm

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Speaker 3: very familiar with the history of what happens is if

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Speaker 3: you push individual levers too hard.

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Speaker 1: And to your point, Bernie, those three players that was

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Speaker 1: my first year, Yeah, any of those three relievers the

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Speaker 1: same after the twenty twenty one season they were.

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Speaker 2: Alex Rays, didn't pitch again.

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Speaker 1: Hennessis Cabrera is in the minors, Giovanni Geyuga, same thing

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Speaker 1: on the sixty dil in Oklahoma City. So you have

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Speaker 1: to you have to respect the career and take that

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Speaker 1: into consideration as well. So that is just a just

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Speaker 1: thing with cobblepen usage works. And to this day, this

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Speaker 1: is my fifth year covering this team. I will walk

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Speaker 1: into Ali Marml's officer, I'll like, see if Dusty Blake

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Speaker 1: can come outside, and I'll be like, what is going

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Speaker 1: on with this situation and why wasn't this used? And

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Speaker 1: they'll tell me something I wasn't even thinking about. And

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Speaker 1: it's my job to think about this thing, right, So

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Speaker 1: of course I don't expect fans to understand or rationalize

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Speaker 1: or get it, but I promise you it's such a

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Speaker 1: complex decision and we overanalyze it so much because it

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Speaker 1: impacts the game.

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Speaker 2: I get it. It's the it's the.

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Speaker 1: Most Being believer is the hardest thing in baseball because

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Speaker 1: if you have a good day, a team wins.

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Speaker 2: If you don't, they lose.

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Speaker 3: It's you know, and the thing that is protecting them

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Speaker 3: from injury is a big part of it. But the

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Speaker 3: other thing, as we both saw in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 3: it isn't just this eventually caused them to break down.

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Speaker 3: That's true, but they also lost their effectiveness in the

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Speaker 3: second half of the season, and the Cardinals in some ways,

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Speaker 3: I'm like still surprised they were able to get into

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Speaker 3: the wildcard game, and then you know that was a

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Speaker 3: disaster because you know, Reyes, poor guy, you know. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's got to be tough for these managers to be really,

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Speaker 3: really disciplined about this. I think Marmo for the most

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Speaker 3: part has been. But where does it get them? It

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Speaker 3: gets them a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of grief, right, He's done a nice job of deep

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Speaker 1: breathing before the cameras turn on.

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Speaker 2: I will say that.

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Speaker 3: I can only imagine, Yeah, you need to Yeah, we

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Speaker 3: need to have a hidden camon there. No, No, you don't,

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Speaker 3: he's he's no. I listen. I you know the way

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Speaker 3: it isn't you know with the Cardinals right now, when

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Speaker 3: a Katie Wu or a Bernie Michlis or Derrek Ude

393
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Speaker 3: or a John Denton or a columnist, when they well,

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Speaker 3: Mamarl's in a tough spot, they don't have enough there

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Speaker 3: for him, you know, mamol. You know, you know the

396
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Speaker 3: organization's failed. You know, they haven't given him a good bullpen.

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Speaker 3: It's very thin. It's you had guys that are just

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Speaker 3: like going south. What's a manager going to do? And

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Speaker 3: anytime I say this on a video or write it,

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Speaker 3: you know, I catch hell. You know, it's just because

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Speaker 3: they everybody wants to blame the manager. I get it.

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Speaker 3: That is the That is the natural instant. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: I've done that in the past too, you know. You know,

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Speaker 3: you always look at the manager and you think what

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Speaker 3: did he do that for? And then you start, as

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Speaker 3: time goes on, you start to maybe develop more depth

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Speaker 3: than your thinking on these things. So that's a tough job, man,

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Speaker 3: really tough job, all right, we'll.

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Speaker 2: Get into some solutions here.

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Speaker 3: First they'll what solutions.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing I need to.

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Speaker 1: Do this library so I can think if there are any,

413
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Speaker 1: because right now I.

414
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,199
Speaker 2: Don't have any. Let's your hungry Root. We'll get right

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Speaker 2: back to it.

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Speaker 4: Krats, Do you like spending an hour on grocery shopping?

417
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Speaker 3: Nope?

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419
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421
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422
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423
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Speaker 4: dairy free blueberry waffles for breakfasts, shrimp vegieboles for lunch,

424
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Speaker 4: and a little filet mignon with potatoes and broccolii for dinner.

425
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428
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Speaker 4: And those recks keep evolving as they learn about what

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Speaker 1: All right, So heading into the weekend, a quick three

440
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,679
Speaker 1: game homestand against the Brewers, just the second division matchup

441
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,159
Speaker 1: for the Cardinals and the Brewers, and we'll have a

442
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 1: preview of that episode out tomorrow with Brewers pre and

443
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: postgame radio host Dom Countriana. So that will be exciting.

444
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: And then a quick roady four games and Cincy that

445
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: will take us to the end of April. Time flies

446
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: when you're having fun. I'm not sure what we need

447
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: to see from the Cardinals given what they have to

448
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 1: get this back on track, because who would have thought

449
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 1: that the best asset of this team so far would

450
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 1: be that starting rotation. The offense has really struggled, honestly, since.

451
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 2: Herrero went down.

452
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 1: They've had good days, but they still haven't fully clicked

453
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: all the way since that injury. But this bullpen something

454
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 1: has to be addressed and I'm not sure what the

455
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: Cardinals can do here except for, like we talked about,

456
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 1: you can bring someone up from the Memphis Express, But again,

457
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: does that really All it does is change the name

458
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: and that would put on the scorecard.

459
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 2: Does that really.

460
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: Change the problem. The problem is outside of your big

461
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 1: three in Hellsley, who never pitches, because if they're never

462
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,679
Speaker 1: in a same situation, Phil Aiton and Kyle Lahy, you

463
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: don't really have any weapons.

464
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 2: You don't really have a lefty.

465
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: John King has been okay, but you can't go through

466
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: a bullpen with only three out of your eight spots

467
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 1: confident in Bernie, what do you think the Cardinal should

468
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 1: do here?

469
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 3: Well, the first thing is it's easy for me to say,

470
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 3: but you know Ryan Fernandez and I overlooked this. He

471
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 3: actually started to struggle after the All Star break last year.

472
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 3: So if you go all the way back to the

473
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 3: All Star break, through this part of the season, he's

474
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 3: got an ERA of about seven sixty and Romero over

475
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 3: his last fifty games, going back to last year, he's

476
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 3: got an ERA of five points and he's got a

477
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 3: seventeen percent strikeout right, It's like, oh my goodness. So

478
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 3: the reason I'm sort of beating that to death is

479
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 3: just to point out you can't keep going to them

480
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 3: over and over and over and over again. Fernandez needs

481
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 3: to be fixed the minor league. He has to be

482
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 3: in Memphis to start to fix this. You don't let

483
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 3: him continue to just take beatings up here. It doesn't

484
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 3: help the team, It doesn't help him and Romero. I

485
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,959
Speaker 3: don't know what to say about him. They you know,

486
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 3: in the old days, you could protect him because you

487
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 3: could make him a true lougie, you know, left handed

488
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 3: specialist never had to worry about a right handed hit her.

489
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 3: But he can't do that anymore. We get to phase

490
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 3: three batters and so they feast on him. When the

491
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 3: right they have the right, he's ready to go. So

492
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do there. The one one

493
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:50,679
Speaker 3: thought I had, and again it's not an original thought,

494
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 3: you know, one thought I had before we talk about

495
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 3: Memphis options, is why can't you just make McGreevy the

496
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 3: designated six starter and you put Matts in the bullpen

497
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 3: and McCreevy can come up to make those what turns

498
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 3: out to be they're kind of like spot starts exactly,

499
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,959
Speaker 3: And I know it's kind of tough to coordinate all

500
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 3: the schedules. But it can be done. But who down

501
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 3: in Memphis? First of all, if you called up Matt Sjohnson,

502
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 3: who's here? Why don't you? Why don't you let him

503
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 3: pitch and see what he does? Right? Riley O'Brien's got

504
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 3: the last time I checked, fourteen strikeouts and seven innings,

505
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 3: and he's got electric stuff. But he's always hurt, even

506
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 3: when he's not technically injured. There's always something going on

507
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 3: with him where he doesn't feel right. And apparently he's

508
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 3: the type of picture that will tell the manager and

509
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: the coach, I don't feel something's not right, you know.

510
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 3: So I don't know if you can rely on him

511
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 3: that that part of his profile is kind of shaky.

512
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 3: The durability. Do you do you give Roddery Munoz an

513
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 3: extended run? At this? He seems very hittable, but maybe

514
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 3: he would. He would thrive in a relief role if

515
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 3: you give him a chance to and you give him

516
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 3: some ways to sort of get people off that fastball

517
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 3: or whatever. And do you do you recycle Chris Roycroft?

518
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 3: I think you probably do. And who am I leaving

519
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 3: out here? What about this? Andre Garnillo he's not on

520
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 3: the forty man, but apparently he's pitching pretty well there.

521
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm like everybody else, I'm just throwing names

522
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 3: out there. If they're not going to get help from

523
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 3: the outside, whatever's out there, it's going to have to

524
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 3: come from Memphis. What do you think?

525
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: So the problem with those lists of names that you

526
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: just ran off is that not one single name jumped

527
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: out to me.

528
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: You're excited to me.

529
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the fix, except for your idea of using

530
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: Michael McGreevy as a spot starter. It's complex, and we've

531
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 1: talked about if Stephen Matts, We've talked about this with

532
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: Ali over the week or over the week in Atlanta,

533
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: if Stephen Matts can be your who Matthew Libertire was

534
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: for you last year, and then you can use Michael

535
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 1: McGreevy as a spot starter, because really the sick Man rotation,

536
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: they're going to use it twice before they have I'm

537
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: looking at my schedule four consecutive Thursdays off after the

538
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: Cincinnati final game of that series, so you don't need that.

539
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: You don't need to save Matts for length.

540
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 1: The problem with Stephen Matts is actually thrown the ball

541
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: really well, and he can make an argument for being

542
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: a starter in that rotation.

543
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 2: But you sure as hell aren't taking Livy.

544
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: Out, You're not taking Polante out, and you can't take

545
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: any of those three veterans out. So, oh my gosh,

546
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: oh no, the Cardinals have a roster construction problem. We've

547
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: never said that before. Here we are again, Here we

548
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: are again. They have so many pieces that and flashes

549
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: will work, and no way to put them all together.

550
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 1: So the worst thing that they can do from a

551
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: fan base perspective is keep running out the same guys

552
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: every single day. If Brian Fernandez blows one more game,

553
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: I think Cardinals Twitter.

554
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 2: Might explode and the it's going to take me down

555
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: with it. I don't want to go down like that now.

556
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what else they can do rather than okay,

557
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: can Stephen Mattz be your lefty guy? And you just

558
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: hope that someone else doesn't get hurt, and you hope

559
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: that your starters can stay healthy. Hope is not a

560
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 1: viable strategy, as I once heard in the manager's office.

561
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: The problem here is that there isn't a viable solution

562
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: and there has not been one, and the organization, the

563
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: front office just let it happen as part of their

564
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: transition season. I'm all on board with what they're doing here.

565
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: You need to know what you have in guys, so

566
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: you know whether they're going to build or not, whether

567
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: are these people that you can build around, These players

568
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: that can be part of your future. Relievers don't necessarily

569
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: fall under that bucket for me, because, like we talked about,

570
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: they're so finicky, they are so volatile. They fluctuate all

571
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: the time. That's the nature of their position. This makes

572
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: sense to do with the rotation. It makes sense to

573
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: do with the position players. By leaving virtually no options

574
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: in your bullpen other than the believer that you signed

575
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 1: halfway through spring, this is what you're gonna get. You're

576
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: dangerously close to panic level in April again for the

577
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: third straight year, and at this time third times a charm.

578
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if they're going to be able to

579
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: get out of it.

580
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: They certainly didn't in twenty three, they barely did in

581
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,239
Speaker 1: twenty four. They're playing with fire rapidly, Bernie. As you know,

582
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: there is no more demoralizing a feeling as a baseball player.

583
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: To hold the lead for seven and a half innings

584
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: play a good game and lose it like that. That

585
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: happened to them four times in the last seven games,

586
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: and it takes a.

587
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: Toll on everybody.

588
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that until you just said it. That's

589
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 3: pretty drastic stuff, you know. That was That was Tony

590
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 3: Larus's thing because I we would talk a lot of philosophy,

591
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 3: we talk a lot of perspective things, and he said,

592
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 3: he said, that is the worst thing that can happen

593
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 3: to your team. He's other than an injury, he said,

594
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: I'm the injury is a separate thing. He said. There

595
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 3: is nothing worse, nothing worse when you have a game

596
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: basically won and it gets away. He said, that's the

597
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 3: only he said, all the years I managed, that's the

598
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 3: only thing that's ever really you can see that. It

599
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 3: demoralizes your team, and some of them really fester for

600
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 3: a couple and so that that's absolutely right when you

601
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 3: get your heartbroken all those times when you've played some

602
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 3: good games and let's credit them credit to they play

603
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 3: exceptional defense and they're starting pitching has been good. That's

604
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 3: what's sad about this because they have some things working

605
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: well for them, right, But when the offense sort of

606
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 3: goes just kind of goes Haywire, not in a good way.

607
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 3: I mean, you realize they hit they hit more home

608
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: runs in the first seven games than they have in

609
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 3: the last eight, the last fifteen, no, the last eighteen,

610
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 3: they've not. The power drain is really hurting the offense.

611
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 3: And the only reason I'm bringing up is just to

612
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 3: make the point again, there's a lot going on there,

613
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 3: and a couple some of the things are really really good,

614
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 3: But these games are so intricate because just like Miles

615
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 3: Michael As he pitches great yesterday, right, it's a gift.

616
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 3: He gives you six scoreless innings, and then you can't.

617
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 3: Your offense shuts down, and then you have another blow up,

618
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 3: and you're asking you put in a situation where the

619
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 3: margin for error or the margin for any kind of

620
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 3: failure by an individual reliever, because your offense is not scoring,

621
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 3: your starting pitchers are not getting run support from the

622
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 3: standpoint where you know you can have a laugher here

623
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 3: and there where you're up six to one or whatever.

624
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 3: It's like everything is tense, everything is high is high intensity,

625
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 3: everything's high leverage. Everything's pressure, pressure, pressure, and it takes

626
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 3: like one mistake and the whole thing falls apart. I mean,

627
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 3: because they're taking so many games late, because in part

628
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 3: because the offense isn't getting enough done early, so they

629
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 3: take they drag all these games into the seventh, eighth,

630
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 3: and ninth inning. And last year they had the bullpen

631
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 3: to win those games or protect those leads, or to

632
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 3: win tie games, because they'd win the battle of the bullpen.

633
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 3: This year, when you carry those tight games into the

634
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 3: late innings on a night or day when the offense

635
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 3: is not clicking, it takes like one pitch and it

636
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 3: all goes smitherings. You know, it's they are navigating such

637
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 3: a treacherous path because of all those factors I mentioned,

638
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 3: And there's gonna be a lot of bruising and a

639
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: lot of demoralized players after a lot of these games.

640
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 3: And I would and I wish the offense could just

641
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 3: start to unload again because they would take the pressure

642
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 3: off the bullpen. That's yesterday. Yeah, yesterday's game was so classic.

643
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Katie, go ahead.

644
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: No, I completely agree. The problem is the more that

645
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 1: you have games like Mondays, Wednesdays, any of the New

646
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: York series, the more it becomes a thing, the more

647
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: it becomes something that's nagging in the back of your mind,

648
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: whether you're the reliever, whether you're the catcher, whether you're

649
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: the manager, whether you're the outfielder. You know, and the

650
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: second a believer comes in in a late Ian one

651
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: run tie ball game and walks about her, you get

652
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: this sense like, oh, here we go again, right And

653
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: that happened to us upstairs. We saw Jojo put two on.

654
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: I mean that hard hit single, the first one I

655
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: can't remember for who it was.

656
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: Immediately we were like, here it is and then.

657
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: Puts another one on a gift of a put out

658
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: from Sean Murphy, a nice played by Joel Poso, and

659
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: incomes Fernandez and we all knew. All of us were like,

660
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: this game is ending right now, and it's no knock

661
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: on Fernandez, it's just how many times have we seen

662
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: this before? And that becomes in the back of your

663
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: mind and it impacts your performance, whether you're aware of

664
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: it or not. So I don't know what the solution

665
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: is for these Cardinals. I would hope that they could

666
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: swing it a little bit more. I thought Mason Winn

667
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: coming back would help, you know. I understand the frustration

668
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: that the coaching staff is in They didn't inherit these players.

669
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: This is not the wrong.

670
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: They don't make the roster and I'm not quite sure

671
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: how they can use the eight that they have right

672
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: now any better than they are.

673
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: And that to me is the problem.

674
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: But the good news everyone is if you want to

675
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: watch the Cardinals blow another leaving the eighth, you can.

676
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: You can watch them on FanDuel Sports Network stream. Let's

677
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 2: hear it from.

678
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 4: Me out to my tvandal Sports Now work. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

679
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 4: watch me some fingers and not be us.

680
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 3: I'm just glad I am the local delve Forets group

681
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 3: Phil for the Cardinals on ban Duel Sports Now. Cardinals

682
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 3: gage the first on the ban.

683
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 5: Streamer.

684
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: All right, our final segment of the day, we gotta

685
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: do our FanDuel Sports Network player to watch ahead of

686
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: this three game set against the Milwaukee Brewers. We're gonna

687
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: stick to our bullpen theme. I'm going Kyle Lady. Let's

688
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: do a quick run through his stats. He's appeared in

689
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: thirteen games, fifteen and two thirds and sixteen strikeouts, A

690
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: one to seven who e er Ray fills up the zone,

691
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: nasty Arsenal. I was funny, Allie was telling us when

692
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: Kyle Lahy first made his way into the organization, Dusty

693
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: Blake said, there's a chance this guy could be our

694
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: best pitcher in the next two years.

695
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: And I wouldn't put him.

696
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: Right there yet. Sunny Gray still on the team. I

697
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: think he does have some of the highest potential. He's

698
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: going to see a lot more high leverage opportunities because

699
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: there's no way in heck that they can keep running

700
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: out Fernandez from the right side given where he's at

701
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: right now, and we've seen that already. We saw lay

702
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: come in the seventh after Michael has to be kind

703
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: of the stopgap guy. I think he's really fascinating to

704
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: watch as a reliever this year, and I would not

705
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: be surprised at some point if they take him and

706
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: turn him into what they're doing with Liberator, because his

707
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: stuff is just that good. So if you're looking for

708
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: lever Linings guys, Kyle Lahy good.

709
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 3: Reliever, Yeah, you know. And the thing about him is

710
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 3: the dude has this season. The dude has a higher

711
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 3: strikeout rate than Ryan Helsley. He's also got a hell

712
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 3: of a ground ball rate. And what makes him special

713
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 3: and it's exciting. He's a right handed pitcher, but he

714
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 3: is actually tougher on left handed hitters than right handed hitters.

715
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 3: Like in other words, neither neither group do much against him.

716
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 3: I mean, the batting the average against him before yesterday

717
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 3: was like sixty nine or something. I mean, it's just

718
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 3: ridiculous how great he is and a guy. They've hit

719
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 3: his four seing fastball a little bit okay, but the

720
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 3: other four pitches he throws, like the batting average on

721
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 3: all those pitches combined, it's actually something that truly would

722
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 3: make you laugh out loud. It's ridiculous. They can't do

723
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,479
Speaker 3: anything with these pitches. They have no idea what's coming

724
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 3: because he commands five different pitches, and hitters are saying, well,

725
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 3: this is when he'll throw the change up. Well, I'm

726
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 3: gonna look change up and then he he he just

727
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 3: messes him up all the time. They're guessing wrong all

728
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 3: the time. That sounds like a starting pitcher in the

729
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 3: making to.

730
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: Me, right, I totally agree.

731
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: I mean, he's an uncomfied bat through and through from

732
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: both sides of the ball, as you mentioned, and there

733
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: was some talk about it in spring on what he

734
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: could look like if the Cardinals get to a point

735
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: this season where they continue their ten and sixteen record

736
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: and its.

737
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 2: Spirals even more.

738
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: I could see them maybe starting that experiment early, But

739
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: right now I really like what lay he's doing. I

740
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: think this is a great showing for him as a believer.

741
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 1: I think his ceiling is a starter. Six pitch Arsenal

742
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: has nasty stuff and just look at we try to

743
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: read the swings of opposing players. You're spot on. They

744
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: have no idea what's coming. They're guessing, and he knows it.

745
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: So I if the Cardinals can get in the perfect world,

746
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: the same was Cardinals get six Indians, they get quality

747
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: starts from their rotation, which actually happened pretty often, and

748
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 1: you get Lay for the seventh against.

749
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't really matter.

750
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: He can take the lefty lane or the righting lane,

751
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 1: get you to Mayton, gets you to Helsy, high five, handshakes,

752
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: high five's game over. The problem is they have not

753
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: been able to do that and playing having a blueprint

754
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: where your most perfect brand of baseball is the only

755
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: brand of baseball that gets you a win.

756
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 2: That's how you get ten wins. By April twenty fourth.

757
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 3: Well said nothing to add except can I can I

758
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 3: do one real quick thing, but maybe player to watch

759
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 3: and if I could get off the bullpen, I'll be

760
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 3: quick about it because I have a I have a

761
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 3: stat that I love. Yes, it's also unbelievable, and I

762
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 3: had to like quadruple check it just to make sure.

763
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 3: So you you told us not only are a Cardinal territory,

764
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 3: but you told us on the in the athletic they

765
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 3: really want to give Nolan Gorman a lot of run

766
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 3: at DH. Okay, yes, please, yes, just make up the

767
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 3: DH and let them go. Katie, this is unbelievable, and again,

768
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 3: I want to tell everyone. I quadruple checked this. I

769
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 3: checked a Baseball Reference of fan grafts everywhere Cardinals designated

770
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 3: hitters as a group, They've they've had one hundred and

771
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 3: two play plate appearance, one hundred and two plate appearances

772
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 3: this year, one RBI, one RBI. Trust me again, no

773
00:37:55,560 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: home runs specifically the DH position, no home runs one

774
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 3: RBIs one one and oh as an added bonus, the

775
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 3: boy said, being sarcastic, Oh, they've they've hid in a

776
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: five double place. I mean, wow, the Cardinals, everything just

777
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 3: about everything is just so crazy.

778
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: Who not crazy? Good?

779
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 3: Crazy? In what universe does the team have one hundred

780
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 3: and two played appearances from their dhs, and the primary

781
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 3: guys have been in terms of at bats have been

782
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 3: you know, Burleson and Cantraras and Baker and Gorman and

783
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 3: Donovan just like maybe one turn each. But what kind

784
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 3: of crazy, crazy team you get twenty five games into

785
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,959
Speaker 3: the season and your dhs have driven in one run?

786
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 3: It was It was an RBI by Burlison. I don't

787
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 3: even remember when it was, But go ahead and check

788
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 3: for yourself, because I know it's one of those things

789
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 3: you hear you say, oh, there's no way that can

790
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 3: be true.

791
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 2: Check check, Okay, okay.

792
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: A rule of thumb if you're thinking, if you're talking

793
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: about the same with Cardinals and you think, no, wait,

794
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: can that be true?

795
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 3: That's true.

796
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: It can be true, as you and I know, that

797
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 1: is an insane stat Really just kind of wraps up

798
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: this whole.

799
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 3: It's just nuts.

800
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 2: Whatever the heck.

801
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: This last week was listeners Cardinals territory fans. Hopefully you

802
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: were able to commiserate and vent with us a little bit.

803
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: Maybe this could be a nice little therapy session for you.

804
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: It really was another grueling road trip. I don't know

805
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: why each road trip has felt like eighty four years.

806
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,919
Speaker 1: But this last one I think just across the board.

807
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 1: One in six not good. Hopefully they can get right

808
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 1: against the Brewers, but that's a brewisting that's heating up.

809
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 2: They look good too. I don't know, Bernie, I don't.

810
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: Know, you know, And they're so bad on the road.

811
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 3: They got three with the Brewers, and then like I think,

812
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 3: I think it's thirteen out of the next nineteen after

813
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 3: that'll be on the road. Oh oh oh, I don't

814
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 3: want to do that. Yeah, I forget what cities. I

815
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 3: know DC's one of them, which is well Cincinnati.

816
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: Then we have a week at home Mets Pirates, and

817
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: then a ten day road trip DC, Philly, Kansas City.

818
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: So let's see where the team is. Hopefully they're in

819
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: a better spot than where they are right now. The

820
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: bar is low, Cardinal Territory. Back at you Friday, April

821
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: twenty fifth for that Cardinals Brewers series preview. Before we go, though,

822
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: I need to remind you about something that I almost

823
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: got to do myself. You can watch same with Cardinals

824
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: games now at FANDUAL Sports Network. You can stream them

825
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: and if use the promo code Baseball thirty, you can

826
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: start it off with a thirty day extended free trial

827
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: at fandelsportsnetwork dot com slash packages. This deal expires May

828
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: second five, nineteen ninety nine, a month after your free

829
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: trial canceled during a free trial. To avoid charges eligibility

830
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: restrictions supply, visit fandelsportsnetwork dot com for details. You will

831
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 1: see Matthew Libertour, Sonny Gray, and Eric Fetti this weekend.

832
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: Stephen Matts will make another start at some point during

833
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: the next four game series at Cincinnati, and you might

834
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: I don't know this.

835
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 2: If I did, I would.

836
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: Tell you might see some Bullpens shake up, but I

837
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: would not be surprised if you don't.

838
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: We'll see. We're gonna write this.

839
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: Together, Cardinals fans. It's a long season and it certainly

840
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: feels like it right now.

841
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 2: That's all I got, Bernie.

842
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 3: Always a pleasure to talk baseball with you. Always.

843
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 2: I agree. We'll be back at it next week. Thanks

844
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 2: for listening. Talk to you soon.