1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Stephanomics, the podcast that brings the 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: global economy to you. With something different for you today, 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: an extended conversation with one of the most impressive individuals 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: I've ever worked with, Christia Freeland, a friend who had 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: a glittering career as a journalist covering the aftermath of 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: the collapse of the Soviet Union. Wrote three books about 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: that time, and did several senior jobs for the Financial 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: Times and Routers in London and New York. They decided 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: to give it all up to go back to her 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: home country of Canada and get into politics. That was 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: barely seven years ago, and now she's Finance Minister, one 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: of the favorites to succeed the Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. 13 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: My interview with Christians going to take up most of 14 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: the show this week, but if you listen to the end, 15 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: you'll also get to hear why milk and eggs have 16 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: both been making news at Bloomberg, So stay tuned for that. 17 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: But now here's the Finance Minister of Canada, Deputy Prime Minister, 18 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: Christoph Freedland, Deputy Prime Minister, thank you very much for 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: being here. Um. I remember when I was at the 20 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: BBC writing a blog about Canada, about the goody two 21 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: shoes economy, because they dodged the global financial crisis so effectively, 22 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: and you had very sensible banking and you hadn't made 23 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: lots of mistakes everybody else's pain. When you look at 24 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: how Canada's responded to the pandemic, and particularly I guess 25 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: the vaccine rollout, Um, do you regret that Canada hasn't 26 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: done better and that somehow the US has managed to 27 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: do something right on vaccines that Canada's got wrong? Um so, 28 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: looks Stephanie. I would never claim perfection of myself or 29 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: of any human being, and I think particularly with COVID, 30 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: where not getting things exactly right has meant people dying. 31 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: I hope that every politician everywhere in the world, um, 32 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, with the possible exception of just into our journey, 33 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: should look back and should have moments of thinking, wow, 34 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: I wish we had gotten that a little bit more right. Overall, though, 35 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: I would say I like the idea of Canada as 36 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,279 Speaker 1: a goody two shoes country. We sometimes talk about ourselves 37 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: as being voice scouts or girl guides as the case. 38 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: Maybe I think that is a good thing in our country. 39 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,119 Speaker 1: I would also say where we have done things right, 40 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: it has been where we have demonstrated social solidarity UM 41 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: and so it's quite striking for me that Atlantic Canada, 42 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: which has such strong community ties and a real commitment 43 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: to community, has done remarkably well in fighting COVID. You know, 44 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: Atlantic Canada is basically the New Zealand of North America 45 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: UM and did that by taking some really tough action, 46 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: by closing the borders of Atlantic Canada and of provinces 47 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: in Atlantic Canada to the rest of the country, and 48 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: by having hard lockdowns early on. And I think why 49 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: they were able to do that is because of that 50 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: strong community spirit. Interestingly, the other parts of Canada that 51 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: have done really well are the territories, the Northern territories, 52 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: the UK, in the Northwest territories, in Nunavut UM and 53 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: again it was solidarity preparedness to close the borders. And 54 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: then finally, you know something that maybe isn't noticed outside 55 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: Canada is Indigenous people in Canada UM, who have historically 56 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: been really hard hit by public health crisis, showed real leadership, 57 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: often closing their communities to outsiders, and as a result, 58 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: there has been a really, really effective response to COVID 59 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: in indigenous communities. We are now vaccinating at a really 60 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: really fast pace UM. In terms of per capita vaccination, 61 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: it's in the top one or two or three in 62 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: the G twenty, depending on the day. We always knew 63 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: it was going to be a challenge, UM because Canada, 64 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: as a small country fully integrated into the global trading 65 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: system and into the NAFTA North American economy. UM, we 66 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: went into this crisis without significant national bio manufacturing capacity. 67 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: That has made it challenge to be dependent on the 68 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: factories of other countries. But by acquiring a lot of vaccines, 69 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: and by getting into that vaccine acquisition race early, I 70 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: think we have largely mitigated that. We as a country 71 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: have decided we need to be in better shape going forward, 72 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: and so the budget may makes an investment of more 73 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: than two billion dollars in life sciences and bio manufacturing capacity. 74 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: When we met you were you were a journalist. I 75 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: was thinking about who were the best known journalist politicians 76 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: or journalists who later became politicians, And you'll be interested 77 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: to hear the list is Winston Churchill, Boris Johnson, and Mussolini. 78 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: U does it does that how does that affect the 79 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: way you do your job? Now? Do you think all 80 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: that time as a reporter, do you still feel a 81 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: little bit like a reporter? Yeah, I I feel I'm 82 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: gonna have to think about that list Stephanie and I'm 83 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: gonna left on that and for all listeners. Um, Stephanie 84 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: and I were baby journalists together, so we've known each 85 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: other for a long time, and I've still been a 86 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: journalist a lot longer than I've been a politician. Um. 87 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: It definitely shapes how I approach my job, and I 88 00:05:53,480 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: would say, in maybe three principle ways, too generic to 89 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: being a journalist and one sort of specific to my 90 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: own time in journalism, I still always want to talk 91 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: to the people who are at the coal face, and 92 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: I want to hear directly from them. I never really 93 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: believe that a briefing note can fully capture as much 94 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: as a conversation with the people who know stuff directly, 95 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: so I continue to do that. The system really doesn't 96 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: want politicians to do that. It's just not designed for 97 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: politicians to be picking up the phone all the time. 98 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: But that's what I believe in doing. The second thing 99 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: that has shaped me a lot is at the ft. 100 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: When I moved from being a reporter to being an editor. 101 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: One of our colleagues it was actually Peter Bruce, who 102 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,679 Speaker 1: I remember saying to me, Um, you're an editor now, 103 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 1: and you're going to have to make a hundred decisions 104 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: a day, and hopefully more than will be right than 105 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: we'll be wrong. But the important thing is going to 106 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: be not to be paralyzed by uh, you know, feeling 107 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: you need to be perfect. The important thing is going 108 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: to be just to make the decisions because otherwise the 109 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: paper cannot be published at the end of the day. 110 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: You had to take the information that was coming at you, 111 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: absorb it, analyze it as well as you could, and 112 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: then make a decision on which story was in, which 113 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: story was out, which quote was in, which one was out, 114 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: and and not and not be so not be too scared, 115 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: not be too scared of making the wrong decision. And 116 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: I felt that training was really really helpful in the 117 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: heat of COVID, you know, especially last spring. And then 118 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: my formative experience as a reporter was covering the collapse 119 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: of the Soviet Union and really watching this extraordinary thing 120 00:07:55,160 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: of a whole paradigm changing and breaking down just in 121 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: the course of not even years, but months and days. 122 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: Watching it showed me that systems are not eternal, and 123 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: systems can change really fast. And in particular, what I 124 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: saw was the people who were the most successful in 125 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: that transition were the people who were able to see 126 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: that it was happening and embrace the transformation and understand 127 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: that the greatest risk. It's a little bit like being 128 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 1: a news editor, right that the greatest risk is in action. 129 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: And when you when you're in one of those shifting paradigms, 130 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: you have to be prepared to act. Arguably, we have 131 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: a different kind of slightly slower, but a different kind 132 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: of paradigm shift that's happening over the last few years 133 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: um in regard to China and how the world looks 134 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: at China. And I just wonder whether you feel maybe 135 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: there's a risk that you're actually out of step with that, 136 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: still carrying the flag for a belief that engagement with 137 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: China and gradual bringing of China into the sort of 138 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 1: multilateral liberal economic order was the direction the world was 139 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: going to take. And instead now you have clear competition 140 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: much more than engagement, and a very muscular China. Where 141 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: does your vision I mean are you not changing your 142 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: approach fast enough? Oh? Well, definitely. I think a watershed 143 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: moment in Canada's relationship with China has been the arbitrary 144 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: detention of Michael Coverg and Michael's paybor. Uh. That is 145 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: the key issue for our country when it comes to China. Uh. 146 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: These are two really brave Canadian who have been detained 147 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: for no fault of their own, and Canadians are really 148 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: aware of it. And has that changed your view of 149 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: what is possible in terms of future policy with China? 150 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: Is this a country that you can do business with 151 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: and you can continue to engage with positively? Um? Well, look, 152 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: it is a country that Canada and every member of 153 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: the G seven and the G twenty does business with. Uh. 154 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: So that's a reality. Uh. This is very different from 155 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: the relationship of the world's democracies with the Soviet Union, 156 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: for example, UM, where we occupied very separate economic spheres. 157 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: But you know in the game. Um. Turning to that 158 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: Soviet experience of my own, UM, I have always believed 159 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: that shared values are really important and are very important 160 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: basis for deep international collaboration. For Canada, those values are democracy, Uh, 161 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: they are human rights. There has also there has been 162 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: this sea change in attitudes to spending and deficits. President 163 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: Biden has proposed six trillion, just under six trillion dollars 164 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: worth of spending, three big packages. Um. You talked about 165 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: having had your experience in the post Soviet world. You saw, 166 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 1: we saw there how incredibly damaging it was to a 167 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: society and economy. Sometimes if you lose control of inflation, 168 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: lose control of the economy. Is there a bit of 169 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: you that that things were being too complacent about spending 170 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: and borrowing in this area and it's all going to 171 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: come back to haunt us, not just not just Canada, 172 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: but this this change in the global attitude. Um So No, 173 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: but I am very careful. I am a Canadian finance minister, 174 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: so I am surrounded by economists who are very very careful, 175 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: um with our numbers, with our projections, and I'm Canadian 176 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: two so that comes naturally to me. And I think 177 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: it's a good thing. And I'm going to give you 178 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: an example, Stephanie. Um in our full economic statement, we 179 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: predicted a deficit for of three one point six billion 180 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: dollars and we came in at three fifty four point 181 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: two billion dollars. Economy we you know what we we 182 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: embrace it. Some people say that we are earnest and boring, 183 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: and I say, it's the Median way. It's a good thing. 184 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: But the six Biden is not less. It's not being cautious, 185 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: and we know that there are people on all sides, 186 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: including his supporters, who were worried that the numbers are 187 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: getting a bit big. If the US is incautious and 188 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: gets into trouble, Canada gets sucked into that. You know, 189 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: we talked about paradigm shifts and what shapes your you 190 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: know how the lessons of the past shape your actions. 191 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: I would say something that has shapes my actions, our 192 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: government actions, and based on the conversations around the G 193 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: seven table, I can tell you this is shaping the 194 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: actions of many G seven ministers. Is actually the experience 195 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: of two thousand and eight two thousand and nine, and 196 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: I think what most G seven countries feel looking back 197 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: on the response to two thousand and eight two thousand 198 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: and nine is we didn't do enough and we didn't 199 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: recover soon enough from the two thousand and eight two 200 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: thousand and nine recession. And it's one reason that I 201 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: am very focused on driving a fast and robust recovery 202 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: from the recession Canada has today we still have. You know, 203 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: we're glad to have had the ten growth in the 204 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: fourth quarter of last year, but we still have five 205 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: hundred thousand Canadians who either don't have a job or 206 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: working fewer fewer hours than they were before COVID that it, 207 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: to me is an economic imperative, but also a political 208 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: imperative to get them back to work. All of us 209 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: politically can reap the whirlwind if we don't, if we 210 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: allow economic hardship to fester. And I think a fair 211 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: criticism of elites, you know, including financial journalist elites. Um 212 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: I was a financial journalist in two thousand and eight, 213 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, like you stuff me, And I 214 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: think you know, people could quite fairly say uh, in 215 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: the recovery, elite did pretty well pretty quickly, but a 216 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: lot of regular people were left behind for far too long. 217 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: Um I think it behooves all of us to not 218 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: let that happen this time. And I remember, Stephanie. I 219 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: don't know if anyone ever told you this when we 220 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: were baby journalists at the FT, but I remember one 221 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: editor saying to me, you know what the difference is 222 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: between a recession and a depression. It's a depression when 223 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: a journalist's friend loses their job. And something I've been 224 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: mindful of in this recession is the kinds of people 225 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: who you and I know, Stephanie, white collar people, Um, 226 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: have actually been pretty fine. Um. You know. The worst 227 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: we've had to deal with is eye strain from zoom 228 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: and certain and you know, having your kids around the 229 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: house and them struggling from ice stream from zoom to 230 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: One of my children was doing online school today wearing 231 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: sunglasses and he said it was because of the glare 232 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: from the screen. When we look at the numbers in Canada, 233 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: people at the top of the income distribution actually have 234 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: more money than they did before the crisis. They've been 235 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: saving money. And I would just urge all of us 236 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: to remember the K shape also means people at the bottom, 237 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: people who work with their hands, have suffered a much 238 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: greater health risk. They are the ones who have lost 239 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: their jobs. And our economies will be weaker if we 240 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: don't help them. But our societies, and at the end 241 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: of the day, our democracies will be weaker if we 242 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: don't help them too. Robert but Fall and the British 243 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: author he's written about in a slightly different context. He 244 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: writes about book called Underland. He talks about unburials, and 245 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: he's actually talking about, you know, in the Arctic Circle, 246 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: where things have become unburied that people by climate change, 247 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: that people thought were going to be buried for hundreds 248 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: of years. I sort of like there's been massive loads 249 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: of unburials due to COVID. You know, things have come 250 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: onto this surface that we sort of knew were there. 251 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: I mean slightly with your if you were still a 252 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: journalist and you think about the things that have been 253 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: revealed by COVID, maybe permanently changed, you know, what's the 254 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: book that you would be writing. What do you think 255 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: is the most significant thing about this whole period um. 256 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: I think that I would write a book called who 257 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: Really is Essential? I think what really? You know, I 258 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: think what COVID has shown us is who really are 259 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: the essential workers? And you know, again not to sort 260 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: of bring it down to sort of needly gritty policies, 261 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: but it's one of the reasons it was so important 262 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: for me to increase the Canada Workers Benefit UM in 263 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: our budget. You know, we all of us have been 264 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: going out and saying ya, essential workers, thank you for 265 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: your service. Well, I wanted to thank people for their 266 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: service with more money. What I think we've learned, certainly 267 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: in Canada and I think around the world, is the 268 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: people who are truly essential are very often the people 269 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: who are the least well paid, who have the least security, 270 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: and I think we need to support them more. And 271 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: a corollary to that is we need mothers to be 272 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: able to work. Um Our budget makes a historic investment 273 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: in early learning and child care. And the reason that 274 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: I believe the political window in Canada is open to 275 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: do that is with daycares, with schools being closed because 276 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: of covid UH, what had been for fifty years a 277 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: priority for Canadian feminists themed all of a sudden to 278 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: become a real business priority. When there's a childcare challenge, 279 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: it's the mother who quits her job. And you know, 280 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: we have seen a sharp decline of women's participation in 281 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: the labor force. And we all sort of looked at 282 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: each other and Cannon said, oh no, this is a problem. 283 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 1: It's a problem for our economy. So I think we've 284 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: learned who is essential, and we've learned that it's essential 285 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:26,719 Speaker 1: to make it possible for parents and particularly mothers to work. Um. 286 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: I have to ask you one more question, Um, When 287 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: you talk about the good management of the global financial 288 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: crisis in Canada, obviously Mark Connie has took some of 289 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: the credit for that because he was the gap Bank 290 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: of Canada's governor at the time. UM, are you I 291 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: see he's kind of stake to claim, as you know, 292 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: as being part of the Liberal Party in the recent weeks, 293 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: would you support him for prime minister if it came 294 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: to it. I support Justin Trudeau for prime minister. I'm 295 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: very I'm very privileged to serve in his cabinets. But 296 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: Mark is a good friend of mine. He's actually son's godfather, 297 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: and uh, we've known each other for a long time. 298 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: And actually, uh he was one of the many many 299 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: people I talked to as I was putting together the budget, 300 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: and I'm grateful for his advice. Are you going to 301 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: go out and do a pact at some make a 302 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: pact at some point about which of you would run 303 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: if and when there was a vacancy? I really, Stephanie. 304 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: I'm wearing a short sleeve, short sleeve dress, so I 305 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: can only metaphorically roll up my sleeve. Um, But metaphorically 306 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: I would have to say, um, my focus is on 307 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: delivering the two hundred and seventy programs we have in 308 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: this budget. There is a lot of work to do. 309 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: And I really would also say the Prime Minister is 310 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: younger than me, he is younger than Mark. He's doing 311 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: a really good job and I am very confident he's 312 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: going to lead are party in our government for a 313 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: long time. Well, in your journalist days, you would have 314 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: said that was a non denial denial. But it's been 315 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: a delight to talk to you and very nice to 316 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: see you. Christian m h. Before we end the program, 317 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: I did want to give you a taste of something 318 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: completely different, food wars. Elizabeth Elkin covers agriculture for Bloomberg 319 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: News in New York, and she's here to explain more. Elizabeth, 320 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: thanks for coming on Stephanomics. This was a story that 321 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: caught my eye in Bloomberg's Supply Lines newsletter, and you 322 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: brought together two stories which showed how changing social morays 323 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: causing trouble down at the farm. Tell us first about 324 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: those milk wars. Yeah, sure, So, basically, there are currently 325 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: flexibilities in the law that are allowing schools to give 326 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: kids low fat flavored milk in schools, so basically chocolate milk, right, 327 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: and these expire after the school year. So the argument 328 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: is that milk is high in nutrients, right, and kids 329 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: need nutrients to grow, and they're more likely to drink 330 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: it if it's like chocolate flavored as opposed to just 331 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: regular milk. But obviously there's some scrutiny around this chocolate milk. 332 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: And you know, all the flavored milks have more sugar 333 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: in them, and so you know, there's a question of 334 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: is it better to give kids the milk and have them, 335 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: you know, taking those nutrients that they need and get 336 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: a little bit of extra sugar, or is it, you know, 337 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: better to just try to give them the non flavored 338 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: milk that has less sugar um and um. And obviously 339 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: the dairy industry has a huge investment in this, right 340 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: UH milks applied to American schools is a key source 341 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: of demand for the dairy industry um and so two 342 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: big dairy groups have issued a joint statement praising some 343 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: of these lawmakers who are coming out and urging the 344 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: U s d a S Secretary to permanently allow this 345 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: low fat flavored milk in schools. Obviously, parents make the 346 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: same kind of trade offs every day. You know, what, 347 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: how much how hard do I have to try to 348 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: get this stuff into my kid? Or should I just 349 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: force feed them? So? How bad are these are these milks? 350 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,479 Speaker 1: Are these milks that probably that many parents would hesitate 351 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 1: to buy themselves because of the amount of sugar in them. Yeah, 352 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: that's a great question. Um. And so in talking to 353 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: like nutrition experts, um, and you know, people who are 354 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: working to get kids and adults better nutrition. Um, there's 355 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, saying that it's not necessarily 356 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: that bad, right, I mean, the school lunches and meals 357 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: at school are some of the most nutritious meals that 358 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: kids will get. Um. A lot of kids, it's the 359 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 1: most nutritious meal that they'll get in a day, right. 360 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: And for some kids it's the only meal that they'll 361 00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: get in a day. Um. And so dick getting kids 362 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: to come in and eat these meals and drink this 363 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: milk and get these proteins, it's better for them than 364 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: say soda, right, which is something that a lot of 365 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: kids will drink every day. Um. And they're probably having 366 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: a big plate of fries as well as they sit 367 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: down for that school meal exactly. Yeah, So it's not 368 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: necessarily from a lot of people's perspective, you know, this 369 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: can be kind of an overblown issue. But presumably, I mean, 370 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: these these dairy farms would have had a terrible then 371 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: the milk producers would have had a terrible time last 372 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: year when all the schools were out. I mean that 373 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: must be part of this, that that just they feel 374 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: like it's kicking them when they're already done. Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. 375 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: I mean last year people were actually dumping milk when 376 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: schools and restaurants closed because they just wasn't enough demand. Um. 377 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: And so this this has been a really tough last 378 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: year for the dairy industry. Schools are obviously incredibly important 379 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 1: for dairy's demand. What do you think is going to happen? 380 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: There is the Biden illustrations. Does it seems sort of 381 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: pro milk? Well, the head of the U s d 382 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: U s d A came out and said, um, in 383 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: a hearing that this was a really important issue that 384 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: kids need more nutrition and that kids need more dairy 385 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: in their diets. And so I think it's a good possibility, 386 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: especially because you know, more than fifty members of the 387 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: House of Representatives came out urging the Secretary to to 388 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: do something about this um to permanently allow these low 389 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: fat flavored milks and schools. And that is, you know, 390 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: people from across the aisle. Its Republicans, it's Democrats. This 391 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: seems to be an issue that a lot of people 392 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: agree on that kids need more nutrition. Sells to be 393 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: talked to. There's there to day. I would imagine that 394 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: it probably will be, but we'll have to wait and see. Now, 395 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: the other thing coming down the track for milk producers 396 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: is a big shift away from dairy altogether due to 397 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: not just health but but environmental concerns. And I did 398 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: see that the other day. It shares in Oakley, the 399 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: world's biggest oat milk maker, jump nearly on their first 400 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: day of trading, and they valued the company at twelve 401 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: billion dollars. It's just a little oat milk company set 402 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 1: up in Sweden not so long ago. But I hear 403 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: that we're going to start to see some very expensive 404 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: eggs in the grocery store, maybe where chicken farmers are 405 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: also trying to cash in on this desire of all 406 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: of us to be more green. In our purchases. Elizabeth 407 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: tell us more about those eggs. Yeah, absolutely, Um. And 408 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: two of my colleagues, Leslie Patton and Kim Titman, did 409 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: a fantastic long look at this for Business Week that 410 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: I would highly recommend that anyone check out. But the 411 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: egg industry is now bedding on climate friendly eggs is 412 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: the next big thing. Um, what is the climate friendly egg? 413 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 1: Great question. So basically what it means is that these 414 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: eggs are made on sustainable farms, um, that use regenerative 415 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: agriculture to make these eggs, right to produce these eggs, um, 416 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: And so they can be marketed as climate friendly. Um. 417 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: They're not just happy chickens producing them that we've you know, 418 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: we've often worried that we've bought free range, we've bought organic, 419 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: but the carbon neutral yes, yeah, So it's it has 420 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: to do with like the science of the the way 421 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: that they're producing eggs themselves via the soil that they're using, 422 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: you know, on the farm. Um, it's actually a scientific thing. 423 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: It's not just letting the chickens roam freely, you know, 424 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: it's not just like good for the chickens. It's really 425 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: about the carbon impact of the farm and of making 426 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 1: how much and if we want to be this sustainable, 427 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: how much are they going to be? These eggs? So 428 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: these eggs can cost as much as eight dollars um. 429 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: And you can still get Please tell me that's for 430 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: like half a dozen or it does not just one? Yeah, yeah, 431 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And you know you can go into a 432 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: store and get eggs for like less than a dollar um. 433 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: And so it's just yeah, it'll be interesting to see 434 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: how much people are willing to pay um, you know, 435 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: and it's marketed as a premium product, right um. And 436 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who will pay more 437 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: money for climate friendly you know anything. I mean that's 438 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: ranked pretty highly um, especially like younger generations, you know, 439 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: millennials gen z usually will rank UM sustainability is very 440 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: high on their UH concerns. And so you know, eggs 441 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: are not the only industry that is taking a bet 442 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: on climate friendliness. But but it is fascinating, you know, 443 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: I mean, would you pay eight dollars for a garden 444 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: of eggs? Who the hell knows? I guess it depends 445 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: how much everything else is. But Elizabeth, thank you very much. Yeah, 446 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: and thank you for having me. Well that's it for 447 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: this episode of Stephonomics. I'll be back next week with 448 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: a lot more from around the world. In the meantime, 449 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: please rate the program, and if you want to get 450 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: more news and analysis from Bloomberg Economics, you can follow 451 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: at Economics on Twitter. This episode was produced by Manus Hendrickson, 452 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: with special thanks to Canada's Deputy Prime Minister Christipher Freeland, 453 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Elkin, and Brenda Murray. Mike Sasso is executive producer 454 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: of Stephonomics and the head of Bloomberg Podcast is Francesca Levi.